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I Almost Took My Own Life : Postpone the Suicide 24 Hours — and Everything Changed · Recovering Out Loud

0:00
Willow is a Shih Tzu. She's like this big.
0:02
I don't know why I'm putting my hands in front of the
0:03
microphone. That's not that's not how
0:05
microphones work. She's like this big and she's a
0:09
Princess, OK? But the one thing her superpower
0:14
is she can, she can sense when something's wrong.
0:17
And she's like up on the couch looking at me as I'm looking
0:21
back at her having a smoke and thinking about jumping.
0:24
And I'm like, I can't leave her. I can't abandoned her because in
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my mind, everybody's evil enough to ruin my life, including God.
0:32
Like God probably hates me. So if I leave, she'll be
0:35
defenseless because she's defenseless to begin with.
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And and there'll be nobody to take care of her.
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And I love her. And then that that last thing
0:44
that I thought was like, I love her.
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And I'm like, yeah. And I was like, and she loves
0:51
me. I'm like, well then maybe I'm
0:54
not. Maybe there's something worth
0:58
saving. And I was like, you know what?
1:01
We could put a in on the suicide and we could just postpone that
1:04
24 hours. Hi there, welcome back or
1:07
welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the show where we get
1:11
real about mental health and addiction.
1:13
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
1:16
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
1:20
help. Send me a message on all social
1:22
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
1:27
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
1:49
Like I was actually just saying like my, you'd, you'd think with
1:51
an ego as large as mine, I would actually see it coming.
1:56
Like I would see when it's affecting me.
1:58
And I made a joke. It's like a stealth bomber
2:00
loaded with bad decisions. It just, it just keeps like you
2:04
don't even see it. And the next thing you know,
2:05
like, why am I, what am I doing? Like, Oh, I'm being run on, you
2:10
know, letting my defects kind of run the show.
2:14
And, and then I'm surprised, you know, like, oh, well, why didn't
2:18
this work out? It's like, 'cause you weren't
2:20
like, actually paying attention to reality.
2:22
You're up in your head and you're like, this is all going
2:24
to work out. This is exactly, I know exactly
2:26
how this is going to go. And you're like, yeah, you're
2:29
doing it again. I'm like, oh, OK.
2:31
So I try to laugh on myself when that happens.
2:34
Yeah, me too. It's sort of like projecting
2:36
this movie, right? We walk around with like movie
2:38
projectors, this is how it actually is.
2:41
And then reality's over here and we're spinning this movie up on
2:44
the screen and it's no, that's the movie.
2:46
That's that's what's happening. That's the truth.
2:47
Yeah, yeah. And that's it's really not.
2:52
And and, you know, like, I try to remember that it's like we're
2:59
given brains for a reason. Like we like the ability to
3:03
imagine, to take like observations and then imagine
3:07
something different. Like, you know, that's worked
3:10
out pretty well for humanity. Like, you know, like tools, more
3:17
money, you know, the ability to exchange value.
3:20
Like every piece of technology came from somebody imagining
3:25
something that didn't exist. And and that's great.
3:30
You know, the problem is that it's the discernment, right?
3:34
It's the like, OK, so I've got an idea.
3:38
OK, well, that's nice. Like is it making me happy?
3:42
Is it going to be useful? Which is like I'm stealing that
3:44
from some guy on a podcast. I don't remember which one, but
3:50
and then it like, if it is, you know, maybe maybe stay on that,
3:57
stay with that thought and see where it goes.
4:00
But like, for the most part, it's just like scroll to the
4:03
next thought, you know, like, because I, I think of the brain
4:07
as like an algorithm, you know, we've got these like, you know,
4:10
when you go on your phone, you see what it's learning, right?
4:13
So the more time you spend with a thought, the more it tries to
4:17
make thoughts like that and support that, the more energy
4:21
you put into a thought, the more, the deeper into that
4:23
thought you're going to go. And for me, that can be useful,
4:26
but it can also be really unhealthy.
4:29
I can just sit with like negative thoughts for a long
4:31
time and then I have feelings about thoughts and thoughts
4:34
anyway. What are the majority of those
4:36
thoughts recently for you? The negative ones.
4:39
I mean, I have a lot of let's get right into it, I guess.
4:49
Tell me your deepest secrets. I'm like, oh boy, I think so.
4:56
I started drinking when I was 13, give or take.
5:01
And they say, you know, once you start drinking at least and I
5:07
drank alcoholically probably right from the start because my
5:10
I was in a band when I was 17 and they gave me a shirt instant
5:14
asshole just at alcohol. And I remember very clearly like
5:18
a bunch of times my bandmates kind of like not loving drunk
5:22
Tom. And so when you're drinking like
5:28
that, you're, you're drinking to avoid the consequences and like
5:33
you're not developing as a human being.
5:35
So emotionally like I'm probably like, I don't know, 15 years old
5:41
sometimes, like a lot of times. And so the thoughts I have are a
5:47
little bit like a 15 year old boy, not a little bit.
5:51
They're identical to a 15 year old boy.
5:54
So it's a lot of these things about like girls are scary, like
5:58
I want to run up and pull their hair instead of like being like
6:01
a thoughtful, caring person. The world is scary.
6:07
It's really hard for me to remember.
6:08
Like, you know what, like just because you do have a 15 year
6:12
old boys inside of you doesn't mean you can't parent that and
6:15
like manage those emotions yourself.
6:17
You like you can do that. Like I'm capable.
6:20
Like if you were to say, Hey, I'm having a bad day, you know,
6:24
I don't know, like I, like I tore.
6:27
I've got a huge hole in the back of my jeans right now.
6:29
I thought you. Were joking about that.
6:32
No, it's, it's like, it's a thing.
6:35
And I was like, nobody's going to notice.
6:37
And I wanted to wear these jeans because these are like, I look,
6:40
I think I look cool in these jeans except for, you know, the
6:44
back where I look like the person that doesn't know that
6:47
they have a huge hole in their jeans anyway.
6:49
But if you were to call me and say, I can't believe it, I was
6:50
on the TTC and I had this huge hole in my jeans, I'd be like,
6:52
oh man, that sucks. You know, like I could probably
6:55
talk to you and like, you know, in a kind, compassionate way
6:59
and, and listen and be like, you know what, You're a good guy,
7:03
you know? So it's turning that voice to
7:06
myself and being like, OK, like, you know, but I do have a lot of
7:10
thoughts about relationships. Like those are scary trying to
7:16
rebuild my life, like trying to get back into the work, into
7:19
work and my career. Just feeling like, you know,
7:25
like imposter syndrome is a really common one.
7:28
Yeah, yeah. I don't deserve this, right?
7:31
How did I, how did I get here? Like I I don't belong.
7:34
I don't deserve this. Yeah, I've, I've come up with
7:36
that from time to time, for sure.
7:38
Yeah, yeah. Let's get right into it, I
7:40
guess. What's the what was your sort of
7:44
childhood like? How did you find alcohol and
7:47
drugs and what did they do for you?
7:48
Yeah, OK. So like I said, I was, I was
7:54
really into music. So, you know, I worked like a
8:00
fellow. I'm in a fellowship and we go
8:03
through steps and one of the steps is an is an inventory.
8:06
And I've done that a couple times.
8:08
And one of the benefits of going through that work is that you
8:12
start to realize not everybody was out to get you, you know, so
8:17
when I first went through, I was like, oh, you know, mom and dad
8:19
are terrible and they're Alcoholics and blah, blah, blah.
8:22
And that's all true. But one of the things I started
8:26
to remember is a lot of the good things about my childhood.
8:28
And 1 was like, my mom knew that I loved music.
8:33
And she, like when I was a kid, I would go up to these, this
8:38
like techniques, organ that we had in our house and I would
8:42
play along to the music on the radio when I was like 6 years
8:45
old. So I had that, that, you know, I
8:48
had an ear for music, which is just something some people have.
8:54
And so I, I was like, I really wanted to be in bands and I, and
9:00
I just love music. So I got into bands because my
9:04
mom would literally drive me to like Ottawa.
9:07
I lived in Kempville, she'd drive me to Ottawa to try out
9:09
for these bands when I was like 15 years old.
9:12
And she also loaned me the money to buy my first keyboard because
9:14
there's a keyboard player. It was like Ross, the Ross
9:16
Keller of the band, you know, not like the cool guy.
9:18
I was like the nerdy guy, like, you know, like, so it's not that
9:22
well, whatever. And eventually I got into, I got
9:27
into a couple bands and and then I found one where I would like,
9:32
we were actually in that for a couple of years and we actually
9:34
like made an album in the studio, kind of like this place
9:38
in Ottawa. And it was a big part of my
9:41
life, but I was also scared out of my mind, you know, because
9:45
the kids were older. They were like 2-3 years older
9:48
than me. And I just, and I, I was just
9:52
like, you know, it's intimidating to play music in
9:54
front of people. So I started turning to alcohol
9:57
to do that. And yeah, I remember going to
10:01
this one, like party in a field where there was a bunch of bands
10:04
like playing and this one guy that was really cool and he
10:08
looked like Axel Rose. And he was literally drinking
10:11
like a bottle of Jack Daniels, you know, and pouring Coke into
10:15
it. And, you know, and I was like, I
10:17
want to be that guy. And that's, that was like one of
10:22
the reasons I really started drinking a lot.
10:25
The other reason was, well, I, I, you know, that's, I kind of
10:31
misspoke there. I heard somebody say like, none
10:35
of the things that happened to me made me an alcoholic.
10:38
I am an alcoholic and these things happened.
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But when I took those drinks, it's it was it was the fact that
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I'm an alcoholic that really, you know, determined the course
10:52
of my life because, you know, we talked about like a mental
10:57
obsession and a physical allergy, right?
11:01
But another thing that like wasn't great was when I was a
11:04
kid, my dad, after he divorced my mom, he got sober, he went
11:11
into the rooms, he met a woman, she sponsored him and then she
11:16
married him. So she 13th stepped him, as they
11:20
say, And I clocked that I'm like, that's not cool.
11:25
But he had also kind of sat me down and said, you know, this
11:28
like now that I'm sober, dad's back, you're going to we're
11:31
going to have we're going to have a great time.
11:34
And then I remember getting into his sports car that he bought
11:38
this IROC like the cheesiest sports car you could buy.
11:42
And I remember thinking, yeah, this would be really great.
11:44
I'm going to sit next to my dad and blah, blah, blah.
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And he's like, you got to sit in the back.
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Like Jackie's sitting in the front.
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And I just like, I remember that, like being so pissed off
11:55
about that. And so I got dragged to Alateen.
11:58
I got dragged all these meetings and we say like attraction
12:01
rather than promotion. This was like if this was shoved
12:03
down my throat and I had the quiz given to me of like, are
12:06
you an alcoholic? And I was like not ready for
12:10
that, like at all. So I resisted it.
12:13
And yeah, yeah, yeah. So got kind of a shitty taste in
12:20
my mouth very early, but like one I was drinking and I was
12:23
almost drinking at her of like, you know what?
12:26
Like I know what'll piss you off the most is if I keep doing
12:28
this. So I did it.
12:31
Yeah, but that was high school. Yeah.
12:33
And then so you carried on and what sort of what was the moment
12:38
that you kind of were brought to your knees or you realized that
12:43
this wasn't working the way it used to or, you know, I need
12:46
help. What was that first moment like?
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Well, the first time was actually I just a couple years
12:52
later and I'd actually did the whole music thing and then I
12:56
actually like shaved my, I'm just going to take my 2 cloth
12:58
actually, because it's hot in here.
13:01
So I shaved my head and I moved. I was all over the place.
13:06
I, I like dropped out of high school for a while and I was
13:08
like a landscaper and it was all, I was all over the place.
13:14
But yeah, I, you know, Long story short, I, I, I decided to
13:19
clean up my act and get into a good university.
13:22
And I did, I, I got into the Royal Military College of
13:24
Canada, which is like, it's a full scholarship and I wanted to
13:29
be in the army and that was all going to be good.
13:33
And I stopped drinking for a while too.
13:35
And then to celebrate, we went to the Beef Baron in London,
13:39
which is a very prestigious establishment.
13:41
It's got a, it's got a $10, all you can eat beef sandwich buffet
13:47
right next to like the champagne rooms, right.
13:51
And so we went there and then on the way home, I told the guys to
13:56
pull over so I could punch a guy in the face.
13:58
And I went to jail. And I remember sitting in that
14:02
jail cell being like, OK, I just like ruined my entire life in
14:05
like 5 minutes. And luckily, well, I, I said,
14:14
that's it, I'm going to quit drinking.
14:16
And I went to a few meetings and, and then they kind of like,
14:23
they kind of, they didn't kick me out of the Army.
14:26
They didn't shut down my scholarship.
14:28
They sent me off because they're kind of like used car recruiters
14:30
are kind of like used car salesman for humans.
14:32
And they're like, we've already closed that deal.
14:34
I've already got my Commission. Like I'm not reversing it.
14:37
I don't know, that's kind of, that's not a very nice thing to
14:39
say, but but anyway, Long story short, there were no
14:43
consequences. And so I clocked that and I was
14:47
like, you know what, I kind of, I got this, I got this.
14:52
And so just to like, I won't take you through my entire life
14:54
because it's long, but the moment when I actually got down
15:01
on, I didn't get down on my knees, but I was like, God help
15:03
me, I was 49. So probably another 30 years of
15:09
my life that I spent not being willing.
15:15
Yeah. And that's when I that's when I
15:16
was like, OK, I'm either going to kill myself or I'm going to
15:19
go back to A and try it. So yeah.
15:23
That's awesome. I mean, I think a lot of people
15:26
need to hear that. It's never too late though, too,
15:28
right? Like I, I've always used to hear
15:30
that man, because I came in at 23 and I remember there was
15:33
like, I'd go into, you know, you hear all the things like, Oh,
15:36
you know, I don't think anyone's ever directly said this to me,
15:39
but you know, I've spilled more alcohol than you've drank in
15:43
sun, right? And I remember somebody in a, in
15:46
a meeting one time saying like, I came in young and let me tell
15:50
you, I suffered. Like I remember her saying that
15:52
and I suffered, you know what I mean?
15:54
Like I belong here. I qualify to be here because I
15:57
suffered. And everyone's suffering looks
15:59
different, right? That's not to say that you
16:00
didn't suffer for all those years, right?
16:02
But it's like people come in when they come in and, and their
16:05
time is their time and you can't force it on anybody.
16:08
Like did you have people that were sort of pushing like, I
16:11
mean, I guess so you had your family pushing you in that
16:13
direction, which? Yeah, I mean, the my stepmother
16:19
left the scene and actually I turned my back on my family when
16:22
I was like early 20s. I've had, I've lost jobs because
16:31
of the things I did when I was under the influence of alcohol.
16:37
I've been to jail a few times, been homeless.
16:41
Like I, I slept on a yoga mat in a gym that I didn't own.
16:47
It was funny because a few months earlier I had owned a
16:49
couple gyms and I had like a nice place.
16:52
And the next thing you know, I'm like sleeping on a buddy's in a
16:56
buddy's gym in the backroom, in the squat rack, you know, And I
17:00
made a joke on my powerlifting career is going to make a
17:02
comeback now because I'm so committed.
17:05
I'm literally living here. Yeah, that's.
17:07
Not what's going on, Tom. So, you know, just the insanity
17:12
of like, and the funniest thing too.
17:14
Sorry, I know I'm not answering a question directly, but the
17:16
number of times that I would be like at absolute rock like I'd
17:20
be at rock bottom like it'd be like.
17:23
And I still wasn't I wasn't low enough for me like everybody
17:25
else would maybe say like this is suffering like you're
17:29
homeless. And I'm like, yeah, but I you
17:32
know what? I got this guy to let me stay in
17:34
the back of his gym and like, I've got this.
17:38
And the amount of confidence that I had at those moments was
17:42
unlike like that was the highest level of confidence I had.
17:45
And then as stuff would start to get like, I'd actually start to
17:47
put my life back together because I was a functional
17:50
alcoholic. I don't know if that's actually
17:52
a thing, but you know, I wouldn't drink till 5:00 PM
17:55
every night. I would just run on like Red
17:58
Bull and ignorance. So about 4:30 and then I'd be
18:01
like, oh, this is my life sucks. Oh, I guess I'll drink.
18:05
But yeah, I would be like, I got this every single time.
18:08
And and I, you know, I had a buddy too.
18:12
We surfed together in the Army. I was in the Army for 10 years.
18:16
And he always kind of like kept tabs on me from a distance.
18:21
And I remember one time him picking me up in his truck and
18:24
loading up all my gym gear and all this other stuff and putting
18:27
me up in his basement. And the very first thing I did
18:31
was like, find the nearest bar and go get fucked up.
18:36
And he put up with me for a while.
18:37
And then he was like, you got to go.
18:38
Like, my, my wife is like just she can't stand having you
18:41
around. But it was many, many years of
18:47
very, very of a very lonely life.
18:50
Yeah. And.
18:51
And yeah. So what?
18:52
Would you say is the the biggest thing that sort of helped you
18:56
finally stop? So I'm really stubborn and
19:04
that's not I'm not I, I used to think that was a good quality.
19:09
And it can be hard working. It can be hard working.
19:11
Yeah. Banging your head against the
19:13
wall. It's not OK.
19:15
So there's anyway, so the reason that I finally stopped was
19:23
because I was, I was downtown Toronto.
19:29
I was living in a condo by myself.
19:32
It was like a 2 bedroom condo on the 43rd floor.
19:36
Great view. I had a company and I had six
19:42
people on my payroll, 5 people, five people my, myself included
19:46
six people on payroll, a couple of contractors and we had like
19:51
10s of thousands of dollars coming in every month.
19:56
And I was like looking over the gardener and I was thinking like
20:01
I should probably just kill myself.
20:04
Because I thought like, if I make enough money, if I, if I do
20:11
this, if I do this, if I do this, you know, I'll be happy
20:15
and this feeling will go away. And I knew I had enough money to
20:21
keep drinking the level I was drinking for at least a few more
20:24
years. And, and I knew every morning I
20:30
woke up just absolutely terrified, like shaking and I
20:35
couldn't sleep. And I was just like, Oh my God,
20:40
like I'm in hell and I don't know what to do.
20:44
And I was just like, well, maybe I should kill myself.
20:47
And then I look over and I've got this.
20:50
I've got like this dog. You probably heard me talk about
20:53
the dog, right? Willow.
20:55
And she's and anyways, Willow's a Shih Tzu.
21:01
She's like this big. I don't know why I'm putting my
21:03
hands in front of the microphone.
21:04
That's not that's not how microphones work.
21:08
And she's like, this big and she's a Princess, OK.
21:13
But the one thing her superpower, she can, she can
21:16
sense when something's wrong and she's like up on the couch
21:21
looking at me as I'm looking back at her having a smoke and
21:24
thinking about jumping. And I'm like, I can't leave her.
21:28
I can't abandoned her because in my mind, everybody's evil and
21:32
have to ruin my life, including God, Like God probably hates me.
21:37
So if I leave, she'll be defenseless because she's
21:40
defenseless to begin with and and there'll be nobody to take
21:43
care of her. And I love her.
21:45
And then that that last thing that I thought was like, I love
21:49
her. And I'm like, yeah.
21:53
And I was like, and she loves me.
21:56
I'm like, well, then maybe I'm not.
21:59
Maybe there's something worth saving.
22:04
And I was like, you know what? We could put a pin on the
22:06
suicide and we could just postpone that 24 hours and we go
22:09
to a meeting and see what happens.
22:11
And if, if it doesn't work out, we can just come back to the
22:13
suicide idea. And so I did.
22:16
And that was like, well, I actually know.
22:21
It was 2 years, two months and 23 days ago, yeah.
22:25
That's amazing, man. Do you remember?
22:26
I'm sure. Well, maybe you do, but do you
22:28
remember hearing anything at that, that meeting that kind of
22:31
kept you wanting to go back? Honestly this is kind of
22:34
bothering me and it has been. It's like I remember it was a
22:37
Zoom meeting because I was afraid to leave.
22:40
I had like agoraphobia, like I was afraid.
22:43
I was just afraid of everything. I was afraid to go outside.
22:47
So I just went to Zoom meetings. And I all I remember is this guy
22:50
from Georgia who was became my temporary sponsor almost
22:53
immediately and got me through like the first month.
22:57
But I don't remember the first meeting like I don't.
23:01
I think and, and I so I think a lot of people say that where
23:06
they're like, I don't remember what was said, but it's more so,
23:09
and this is, you know, to the point of to me, it proves the
23:13
power of of community of recovery.
23:16
Community doesn't have to be 12 step doesn't I don't care what
23:18
the fuck it is. There's a community, right?
23:20
You need some kind of community. In my experience, my opinion,
23:24
there's an energy in that, in that that meeting, that room
23:28
that keeps me, that kept me coming back.
23:31
Right. My first meeting experience was
23:32
in Minnesota because I went there for treatment.
23:35
I didn't know anything about 12 step recovery.
23:37
I didn't know anything about recovery at all.
23:39
And they forced me to go and I and all these kids were talking
23:42
about it. I was 23.
23:43
They were all younger than me. They were like, yeah, it's
23:45
places like, you know, it's scary.
23:47
And there's these old dudes with beards.
23:48
There's a men's meeting. It was called, it was called
23:51
like bad boys or mad dogs or something.
23:53
It was all biker dude. Yeah, like Duck Dynasty to AT.
23:57
So I'm walking into this place where, you know, the the duck
24:00
line, right, line of like a line of ducks from rehab getting out
24:04
of the druggy buggy, like walking.
24:06
And all these dudes are sitting on their Harleys smoking
24:09
cigarettes just looking at us, right.
24:11
Like just I'm like, this is how did I end up?
24:14
Like, how is this going to help me one.
24:16
And two, how the fuck did I end up here?
24:18
But there was something about it that to me, so and I don't
24:20
remember anything that was said in that meeting, but I do
24:22
remember a bunch of dudes sharing vulnerably, a bunch of
24:27
tough looking motherfuckers getting open and talking about
24:31
how things that I felt I couldn't be more different than
24:34
these guys. But I felt that camaraderie of
24:37
like, I felt that, I felt that, I felt that.
24:40
And then that was sort of the spark that was like, I don't
24:43
know what's going on here, but I need it.
24:45
I want it and I need it because the way I was living, not ideal,
24:50
not ideal whatsoever. And you know me in hotel rooms
24:53
by myself doing cold all night. Not fun anymore.
24:58
Yeah, it's oh God, yeah. Like I the thing that I
25:03
remember, I remember, I remember Keith because it was like this
25:07
bald 6 year old black guy from Georgia and just the energy off
25:11
of him, like the optimism and the hope and the kindness.
25:14
I remember that. And I remember him like kind of
25:17
like, I remember it was a Zoom meeting that he he it was like
25:21
his own meeting or something. And I remember going through a
25:24
few meetings and I'll be honest, I logged into one and it was
25:27
like, you know, 3, like you, you know how Zoom meetings can be.
25:30
I won't even. OK.
25:32
But like, I was like, this is not the meeting for me.
25:34
This is not the meeting for me. And then I came on and he was
25:35
like, hey, friend, you know. And it was just like, oh, shit.
25:39
I'm seeing. Yeah, yeah.
25:40
And then and I like attention. So it was nice to be seen.
25:46
And and then he sent me. He literally sent me a big book
25:50
and a 12 and 12. And he signed both of them, like
25:53
not just sign, but put like a whole block.
25:56
And I still look at that sometimes, you know?
25:59
And. Yeah.
26:01
And it really. Yeah.
26:04
I mean it. Yeah.
26:05
So it was it. It saved your life.
26:07
Yeah. It saved my life, I mean.
26:08
Yeah, in my opinion, yeah. I can say the same thing, right?
26:12
Like I, I don't know where I was headed, right.
26:16
I, I had thought about not being here anymore.
26:18
I had, I hadn't really planned it out until my last relapse.
26:22
And I wouldn't even say planned it out, but honestly, and mine
26:25
was the same thing. I remember looking, I'm on the
26:26
35th floor of my building and I remember in this last relapse,
26:30
kind of like sitting on the couch and like just, I kind of
26:33
just like imagined what it would be like to fall.
26:36
This is going to trigger some people, but just to fall 35.
26:40
And I was like, huh, Yeah, I've. Never thought about that before.
26:43
That's and that scared the shit out of me.
26:45
Yeah. I was like, oh boy, I better,
26:47
you know, do some more drugs or or get out of this.
26:49
And then so as we do, you know, you do the more drinking and the
26:53
more drugs and it just gets worse and worse and but.
26:56
That scared the shit out of me. Right.
26:58
What? What do they say about change?
26:59
It's when the fear of staying the same is greater than the
27:03
fear of changing. Yeah, that's that.
27:05
Was what kind of drove me as I, I was just like, like every day
27:10
is the same, you know, And actually my first couple, first
27:14
six months, I listened to a lot. I, I always loved 9 inch Nails
27:18
'cause I'm like a keyboard guy and he made keyboards kind of
27:20
cool almost. And but there.
27:24
But then I realized, like a lot of the lyrics, like somewhat
27:28
Damaged is a, is a song from, from, from 9 Inch Nails.
27:32
And it's all about like how alcohol's not working anymore.
27:36
Like it 'cause it worked for a while.
27:38
And then, you know, I won't try to quote this song, but you
27:42
know, it's tried so hard to be like you all alone and where
27:45
were you? And it's, it's, it's all about
27:47
like, it got me to this place where I was alone and it used to
27:52
feel warm and safe, like everything else about life was
27:56
terrifying. And then I'd go home and I'd sit
27:59
in front of my computer and I'd start drinking and I'd feel like
28:01
finally I'm safe. This is my happy place.
28:05
And then all of a sudden my happy place just became like, it
28:09
just, it wasn't like there'd be a moment, you know, where you
28:12
feel it touch your lips and you're like, oh, everything's
28:14
going to be fine. And you know that feeling too,
28:16
when you're on your way to the liquor store and you already
28:18
feel like all your problems have been solved.
28:20
It hadn't. It didn't, I don't think it had
28:22
anything to do with the chemical.
28:24
It was just this like act of like, I give up alcohol's in
28:28
charge, you know, and it's going to solve all my problems.
28:32
And it really didn't. And, and yeah, I was just like,
28:37
I can't. And there's so many times I was
28:39
like, oh, I've got to stop. And I remember telling my
28:42
therapist once, yeah, you know what?
28:46
Like Tuesday I ordered a meal from Uber Eats and I only
28:49
ordered 1 old fashion and I had that drink and everything was
28:53
fine and I went to bed. So I'm like, not an alcoholic.
28:56
And she was like, well, what about the other six days of the
28:58
week? I'm like, well, let's not get
28:59
into like, come on, like, why do you have to be so negative?
29:02
You know? Yeah, like, like, like this is
29:05
proof N = 1 and I'm fine. And that's I, I anyway, I was
29:10
not fine. Yeah.
29:12
So we're really good at. Forgetting all the bad, it's
29:15
always like I cut the movie off right when I do the first line
29:19
and then I forget about the, you know, or I'm having that one
29:22
drink at the bar and then I leave out the the after hours
29:24
club by myself dancing for six hours or whatever the fuck I was
29:27
doing. I had a friend of mine, Billy,
29:29
used to always say and thank you for bringing that up 'cause I
29:32
had not thought about that for a while.
29:33
This, this anticipation of getting, you know, even though
29:37
my thing was drugs, your thing was drinking.
29:39
I can totally relate. And my friend Billy said one
29:42
time I used to love just the weight of the six pack, like
29:45
just the, the, the weight of it. And for me, it was just having
29:49
the coke in my hand. I just just having it in my hand
29:52
alone. I was like.
29:55
And then you do. It and it's just all downhill
29:56
from. Me.
29:59
Right. How the fuck did I, how did you
30:01
untrain that? How did I untrain that?
30:04
Like. How I guess my thought with that
30:07
is, 'cause that has to be unlearned, right?
30:08
Like you have to unlearn that pattern of good time, alcohol in
30:12
my hand. You know what I mean?
30:13
A safety. Alcohol in my hand.
30:15
I think for me it was I had to replace it with good, good
30:19
behaviors, right? Good associations, yeah.
30:25
Man, I don't know. I oh God, I don't want to talk
30:34
about my 50th birthday because it involves going out on a date
30:40
and that went horribly wrong and not drinking after and but I
30:44
remember walking into my my house after.
30:48
I guess I'm going to talk about it.
30:50
Fuck, that's why I love you. All right, so.
30:53
I'm like, I'm, I'm 50 years old, I'm turning 50.
30:56
I've gotten a year of sobriety, I guess, yeah, a little bit over
31:01
a a year anyway, like not very much.
31:06
And I've got a job too like I got this job as like some like
31:10
it was like a, a, a fancy job that I thought like my ego
31:14
thought like this is great making a lot of money.
31:17
Don't really know what I'm doing.
31:19
I'm stressed out all the time. And, and then and I had this, I
31:25
met somebody that she was in my building.
31:28
She was a lot younger and, and not in the program or anything
31:33
like that. And she was like, and, and we
31:34
were kind of like friends, but whatever.
31:37
And she's like, I'm going to take you out for your birthday
31:40
and she takes me out for the birthday.
31:43
And then there was just this thing.
31:47
God, I'm not even going to basically she was just like I
31:49
got, I know you're sober and like I really want to know more
31:52
about this because I'm struggling.
31:53
And I was just like, I was like, like the one thing that I did
31:59
that was probably slightly honorable was I was like, people
32:03
that are in personal relationships with you really
32:06
shouldn't be like, like, like, I can show you where to find like
32:10
a program. But like, you know, I'm, I'm
32:13
kind of biased here because like, we're in we're in a
32:16
relationship. And so like, you need to find
32:19
somebody, ideally a woman that can help you get through this
32:21
kind of stuff. And she kind of got that.
32:24
And then she went upstairs to the bathroom and she came back
32:26
down and she's like, yeah, I'm going to go out to the club, see
32:28
you later. And just like left.
32:31
And that was the last time I ever spoke to her.
32:33
And it was my birthday. And I was kind of bummed out
32:35
because like, you know, I had a lot of expectations about how my
32:38
birthday was supposed to go. And none of them.
32:41
And I remember coming home and being like, well, this is a
32:43
pattern that I used to follow, which is like, I tried to like
32:48
go out in the world and meet someone and be real.
32:50
And it didn't work out. And then I went home and I and I
32:53
drank myself to sleep because poor me, poor me.
32:56
And look like I tried, I tried really hard.
32:59
And I, I remember I called like four or five guys that night
33:03
because I'm like, yeah, this is a danger zone.
33:07
Luckily, the LCB OS had closed by the time I got home.
33:11
But, you know, I was also at the keg when it happened.
33:14
So like, I was lucky. But yeah, like these patterns of
33:18
behavior of like feeling sorry for myself and then making and
33:22
then drinking. So I still feel sorry for myself
33:24
all the time. I'm kind of hoping that'll go
33:26
away one day, but yeah. So yeah, that was a pivotal.
33:33
Moment though for you, right like I think a lot of us have
33:36
these moments where it's like I was very close to relapsing and
33:39
I didn't because I called 4 guys or I you know I and that I think
33:44
you answered my question where it's like well what do you do
33:46
instead? I was taught to reach out for
33:49
help when I'm spiraling, and that's not me.
33:51
I don't normally do that. That's not my fucking default
33:54
mode. No, my default is Band-Aid.
33:57
Quick fix. Yeah, quick.
33:59
You know, Yeah, whatever. Yeah, luckily.
34:02
It was so extreme. And these are the things too,
34:04
like there's the wow, like this is not a good situation.
34:08
I'm really going to need some help.
34:10
It's it's the like, it's the, you know, you look at the big
34:12
book. It's like the the milk and the
34:14
whiskey. It's the little things that can
34:17
really fuck with you because you you're like, I got this.
34:22
Yeah. So there's seemingly.
34:24
Insignificant problems or plans that you have.
34:27
I always talk about the, yeah, the the ADHD medication thing
34:31
that yeah. And it always stems.
34:35
In my opinion, my experience from these rationalizations,
34:38
these justifications that no, no, I'm doing the right thing,
34:41
Anthony, you're good, buddy. Just keep on, keep on going on,
34:45
right? Yeah, yeah.
34:46
Yeah, yeah. So I do feel obliged to report
34:50
that my 51st birthday was amazing.
34:54
It was fantastic. Saw Metallica.
34:57
Nice. Wow.
34:58
Yeah. And.
34:59
And I spent time with with someone that's pretty important
35:04
to me and and it's completely different kind of relationship.
35:09
So, you know, that was that was kind of awesome.
35:15
Yeah. It was a good birthday.
35:17
Yeah. What would you say are?
35:19
Your daily kind of essentials for recovery to stay sober.
35:26
So my morning cigarette, no, that's probably not.
35:33
But The thing is, is that, and I do like all right now I get up
35:39
in the morning and I have a little checklist that I follow
35:44
because my sponsor gave it to me and it's just a little
35:48
mindfulness exercise. It takes like 2 minutes.
35:51
Just like, what do I see, what do I hear?
35:53
What do I smell? What do I touch?
35:56
I'm OK. I put my hand on my chest to say
35:58
I'm OK, I'm safe and I'm loved. And then I I just take a moment
36:03
to like think about that. Am I am like yeah I am.
36:05
I'm good, I'm good today. Take a deep breath, like feel my
36:11
toes on the ground and then I deserve a high 5.
36:15
Why? Oh and also what am I feeling?
36:17
How do I feel? Oh my God, fuck feelings.
36:21
Like I remember, like my therapist used to always anyway,
36:23
sorry, I'll I'll stay on, I'll stay on the point.
36:26
So I'll think about it. I'm like, how am I feeling?
36:28
Like, oh, oh, I feel, I feel grateful.
36:31
OK, cool, you know. And it's always isn't always
36:34
great. Like sometimes I'll feel sad,
36:36
like OK, you feel sad. That's OK.
36:39
But checking in with my feeling. And then it's like, OK, 37 and
36:43
11. And it's like I usually go to a,
36:46
a morning meeting, a men's meeting.
36:48
But even if I don't, I kind of look up and I'm like, all right,
36:51
what are we doing? I, I call, I call my higher
36:56
power Janice sometimes just to fuck with people, 'cause I like
36:59
to piss Christians off. So I apologies, I don't want to
37:02
cause any like, but it's just 'cause like, I just like to be
37:05
an argumentative asshole sometimes and make people go
37:08
like, what? But I'll be like, yeah, OK, hi.
37:12
And I'll talk to, to God for like a minute or two just to be
37:16
like, yeah, you're in charge, not me.
37:19
And then, yeah, I'll usually go through the, the third step, 7th
37:26
step and 11th step prayer. And, and then I get on with my
37:32
day. I, I used to spend like an hour,
37:36
an hour and a half fucking around trying to make sure I was
37:38
getting my morning routine right and would drive me bananas.
37:41
It's perfectionism. Oh my.
37:42
God. And now it's just like, look
37:44
like, let's try to get through this within 20 minutes and get
37:47
up, get going. Because like, I don't want to
37:51
sit staring at my navel for too long because I'll drive myself
37:53
fucking Batty. And then usually I'll take my
37:54
dog for a walk and get outside, get outside, hold that thought.
37:59
I have to take a. Piss sure I.
38:02
Was just thinking as I. As I did that, that beats all
38:06
the amount of times I used to go to the bathroom for the reasons
38:08
I used to go to the bathroom. I thought new one knew, but
38:13
yeah. So you, you do that, you start
38:14
your day. What does what does what does
38:18
spirituality mean to you? And and how do you like what?
38:21
What does that mean? Oh, boy, I, I actually don't, I
38:35
don't know. I don't know if there's somebody
38:39
like in charge of the universe or for me, I know that I'm not
38:47
in charge of the universe. That's pretty important.
38:52
And also like thinking about like the enormity of the
38:55
universe, like like there's like what, 7-8 billion?
38:58
I don't know how many billion people we got now, but there's,
39:01
there's probably at least a couple.
39:02
There's a lot of people, so this idea of like somebody up there,
39:09
like, you know, looking down on a cloud or whatever and I don't
39:13
know, I don't know. I here's a couple of things that
39:16
have really helped me when I'm really struggling in the
39:20
morning. When I'm really struggling in
39:23
the morning, a lot of times it's the morning where I'm like, God,
39:27
like I'm really struggling with this, you know, and like I went
39:29
to bed and I woke up and it's still on my mind and I quiet, I
39:33
just like get quiet. And I've, I've kind of said my
39:37
prayers or maybe I can't even wait.
39:39
And it's just like, OK, listen, what should you do?
39:43
And then I'll, I'll know, like they'll say like, you know, it
39:46
like you're going to be OK, everything's fine.
39:49
Well, what should I do? And like, it will kind of, it's
39:52
very simple. It'll come to me like, OK, this
39:54
is what I should do. This is the thing that I should
39:56
do. And.
40:01
So that voice is very helpful. Also, I mean, I'd be remiss not
40:07
to like use some sort of weightlifting metaphor at least
40:10
once and like this talk because like, you know, I've worked out
40:14
a couple times the, the, the let's try to keep this as as
40:25
much focused on my program and not my own ideas as I can, which
40:29
is really hard because you're asking me and I, I'm like so
40:33
full of myself and I love to sound smart.
40:36
And I think that's the point is it's the path for me to my
40:43
higher power is through the program that I work.
40:46
It's through service. It's through connecting with a
40:51
sponsee. And it's like training wheels
40:55
for finding like my higher power.
40:57
It's like, look, if I'm really struggling, I'll go to a meeting
41:00
and I'll try to listen to the readings and I'll try maybe just
41:02
to listen. And then I'll find the things I
41:06
need to help guide me through the day.
41:10
Yeah. So I really, I love when people
41:15
like, what do you what's what's, what's who's God and how's that
41:18
work? I'm like, oh, goody, goody.
41:19
Let's have like, it's like it doesn't fucking matter, like my
41:24
philosophy and reading about like consciousness and all, like
41:27
I study AI for fun. Like I'm not saying that to
41:31
brag. I'm like, that's how complicated
41:33
I can make life. Like, I'll use AI to figure out
41:36
like, what's the best restaurant in Toronto when I could just
41:39
like use Yelp, you know, like I'm, I'm, I overcomplicate every
41:43
fucking thing. And one thing that helps me is
41:48
like, you know, when you're trying to drive a car, it really
41:50
helps to not try to like work on the car at the same time.
41:54
So if you give yourself over to the care of a higher power and
41:59
you say like, it's going to care for me, you don't need to like
42:02
try to figure out what it is while you're asking for care.
42:04
You can just accept it. And I was listening to these
42:10
speaker tapes, Joe and Charlie, and I was going to this meeting
42:14
on the East side. This is a long, this is like a
42:17
year and a half ago. And they were like, you know
42:20
what, just what kind of higher power do you want to have?
42:24
And I was like, you mean, you can have whatever you want.
42:27
And I'm like, I'd like a kind higher power that loves me and
42:31
sees that I'm just doing my fucking best.
42:33
And I sometimes it's really scary and, and I just want
42:36
somebody that makes me feel like I'm OK and everything's going to
42:40
be fine. And they're like, OK, well,
42:42
boom, there you go. And I asked the higher power,
42:44
like, what should I do? And they're like, well, you're
42:45
on the way to a meeting, but you're kind of hangry.
42:47
Maybe you should stop and get a sandwich.
42:49
And I stopped at a Subway and got a sandwich and the guy
42:53
offered me free bacon. I shit you not.
42:57
And I was like, there is a God and he wants me to have bacon.
43:00
So I was just like, I'm in, I'm in, you know, And that's like,
43:05
and that worked. And I went to the meeting.
43:07
I was really happy because like I, I need carbs to be happy.
43:11
But you know, it's it's. Interesting.
43:12
It's sort of like 'cause I heard it said, you know, higher power
43:15
is like an inner teacher, right? An inner teacher where it's like
43:19
it's kind of this guiding force for me, but it's also like my
43:23
consciousness at the same time, right?
43:25
And I agree with you 100%. The more I try to figure it out,
43:29
the worse it is for me and the more stressed I get about it.
43:33
And then the more the less I listen to it as well and and
43:35
follow the direction that I'm given.
43:38
I don't need to understand it today.
43:39
I can make it into this like detective movie, you know,
43:42
whodunit, like yarn connecting all the people, you know, you
43:46
know that that's the way I can make it.
43:48
And it sounds like you can do the same thing.
43:51
But the more I just kind of acknowledge that it's
43:54
everywhere, it's everything. It speaks through people.
43:59
And also I know what the right answer is.
44:02
Sometimes I just need to listen. And that's why meditation is.
44:06
It escapes me, but it's also the most beneficial thing.
44:09
And that's why I love that morning group where for 15
44:12
minutes, Anthony, you're gonna follow some direction.
44:15
Just listen to the guided meditation and let life happen.
44:21
Yeah. Yeah.
44:25
Yeah, and, and, and a lot of times too, like I'll try to just
44:28
listen to people, but I forgot to do the the weightlifting
44:32
metaphor. You know, you talked about the
44:34
inner teacher. Like The thing is in the gym,
44:38
like when I go to the gym and I do a bunch of squats, I'm not
44:40
getting stronger while I'm doing the squats.
44:42
I'm actually getting weaker. Like I'm breaking down muscle
44:46
tissue. And those little micro tears are
44:48
where new proteins, new proteins can come in and they can
44:54
reconstitute the muscle stronger when I let go and let God.
45:00
And when I say I don't need to figure it out, I'm letting my
45:02
brain and like, sorry, when that happens is when you're resting,
45:06
when you're when you're not squatting, when you go home and
45:09
you sit on the couch and you watch Netflix, that's when that
45:11
happens. So when I say I don't understand
45:15
it, I'm going to sit quietly, I'm going to turn my brain off
45:20
and then I'm going to wait. That's the opportunity for God
45:23
to come in and kind of influence like improve the way my brain
45:28
works slightly. And I, and that's what I'm
45:30
noticing. Like I turn the brain off, it
45:33
rests and then it comes back and it's like, I got a great idea.
45:37
Why don't you just do your dishes and while you're doing
45:40
your dishes, just actually pay attention to the dishes.
45:43
Like, oh, well, that won't solve all my problems.
45:46
No, but it will solve 1. Like your dishes will be done
45:49
and you won't get in shit when the dishes are not OK.
45:52
I'm not even. I love that though.
45:54
Yeah, I know it's true. And then in the process of doing
45:57
it, you're just like, you're not thinking about one more problem.
46:00
Oh, no, yeah. Yeah.
46:03
And I, yeah, yeah. Because I've had it pointed out
46:08
to me by somebody who actually cares about me.
46:10
Although I can understand why that can be frustrating
46:13
sometimes. I'm very sorry.
46:15
I feel like. OK.
46:17
Anyways, you know, like sometimes I'm like, I'm 8
46:21
problems ahead and I'm not really paying attention and you
46:25
know, the spoons aren't actually going to get cleaned if they're
46:28
all jammed in the front of the dishwasher.
46:30
That doesn't work. So taking the time to do things
46:33
properly. But I really want to like use a
46:38
metaphor from computer science, please.
46:40
What? I love metaphors.
46:41
OK, so. In, In computer science, there's
46:44
two ways to store sets of data fundamentally.
46:49
And one's called an array and the other's called a linked
46:51
list. An array is when you set aside a
46:54
certain amount of memory, you say you're like, OK, I got 1010
46:58
variables. I'm going to set aside 10 places
47:00
and they're all going to have a number 12345678910.
47:03
And then we're going to put information whether that's like
47:05
the, the provinces of the capitals of the provinces,
47:08
Canada, you store them, you put them in an array.
47:11
And I really hope I can pull this metaphor off.
47:14
We'll see. A linked list is literally like
47:16
I have a thing and I'm going to put in information in that
47:19
thing, and then I have a link to the next thing and a linked
47:24
list. You can build an infinitely long
47:25
list with a linked list, sort of like branches.
47:28
Yeah, Yeah. It's like, well.
47:29
Then there's a tree. But OK, let's not do a tree for
47:33
me. Sometimes when I start in the
47:35
day, my brain is an array. It's got like, I've filled the
47:37
whole brain with all these ideas and then I've got this like list
47:41
of the numbers to find all the different information.
47:43
And the problem with arrays is that they take up a lot of space
47:46
and they're computationally intensive to to work through.
47:49
So if you can put it into a linked list.
47:51
And my point is, a linked list is what's the next right thing?
47:55
Next right thing is do the dishes.
47:57
What are you going to do after that?
47:58
I don't know. Maybe I'll call my sponsor.
48:00
OK, so like, let's go to the next thing.
48:02
Boop, we're doing that. And the thing after that, yeah,
48:05
sure. Maybe you want to remember that.
48:07
What the next thing is after, fine, it's the next thing.
48:10
Everything after that will be revealed and that's the most
48:14
efficient. Like if you actually look at
48:16
like computer science, like fundamentally the most efficient
48:19
way to store information is in linked list.
48:20
It's just one thing at a time. What's the next thing?
48:22
Boop. Now we're at the next thing.
48:24
Now we're at the next thing. And everything more complicated
48:28
than that I try to avoid because then my brain just starts to
48:32
heat up. Yeah.
48:33
And I get. I love that, man.
48:34
It's like. I'm not gonna think about the
48:36
next thing until I'm done said thing.
48:37
Yeah. Right.
48:38
And once I'm done said thing, then I can start thinking about
48:40
what's next. Yeah, I can really.
48:42
Thank you. I can benefit from that.
48:44
I think a lot of people can benefit from that, though.
48:46
And the way you're describing, what was the first one called
48:49
again? An array?
48:51
Array. The way you're describing.
48:52
An array to me looks like that large spacious graph of so many.
48:57
Ah yeah, where do I start? There's a million.
48:59
Things on my wall right now. Then it's overwhelmed.
49:01
Yeah, and overwhelm is just a sign of fear, Yeah.
49:04
So yeah, I try to avoid the array and you.
49:07
Know I think a lot of men would argue this but I think it's been
49:10
proven that we cannot multitask at all efficient like humans
49:15
they can't multitask right. You're someone listening to bit
49:17
I could do fucking two things at once, right?
49:20
But you So to that to my point. My point is I can't do two
49:24
things the same way with the with the resolve, with the
49:27
intention, with the the. The same way I can do.
49:31
That one thing really well. It's better to do one thing
49:33
really well than 10 things moderately or not well.
49:36
Yeah, well. And and the other thing about
49:39
that is that OK, well, in computer science too, like this
49:46
called overclocking and multi processor.
49:49
So in multi processing, you can have a multi processor that's
49:54
like multiple things happening at the same time.
49:56
But the but the but the, the operating system you need to
50:01
actually set that up is incredibly complicated.
50:04
And when you're multi processing, you actually end up
50:07
burning more resources than if you just had four computers that
50:10
were each doing one of those processes.
50:12
So like it's not efficient. And the thing I notice when I'm
50:17
just like, I'm doing the dishes and then I'm doing the next
50:19
thing is that I'm calm and relaxed throughout the day,
50:22
which is a lie. I just get, I get crazy no
50:25
matter what, but but I get I'm calmer and, and Bill Murray said
50:32
like there's not a lot of things you can't do that you can't do
50:35
better when you're relaxed. And I try, it's really hard.
50:39
I struggle all the time. But if I can be relaxed, then I
50:43
do a better job of the dishes. I program, I can program a
50:46
computer more effectively. I can have a conversation with
50:48
the human more effectively. And when I get done, I don't
50:52
feel tired. And so, yeah, for me, like I
50:58
love caffeine and I love the rush of like, I'm getting so
51:00
much shit done. Like I love it and I still do
51:02
it. But when I noticed that that's a
51:04
struggle for me, I try to go, OK, like, how do I slow down,
51:10
you know? And it's so important to it.
51:13
Leads into the beautiful one day at a time mantra that I, you
51:16
know, have it on my bracelet. Sometimes I forget to look at
51:19
it, but it's like tomorrow is none of my concern.
51:24
It doesn't even exist, right? All I have is today and people
51:27
hate hearing that. I hated hearing it.
51:28
I still hate hearing it, but it's true.
51:30
Like, what am I doing today for my recovery?
51:32
Yesterday's recovery is not going to keep me sober today.
51:34
What am I doing today, yesterday, today and tomorrow?
51:36
Which? Is I love that reading and I got
51:38
I really have to put this huge disclaimer on this of like I am
51:42
so full of shit right now. Like I I I always like I that
51:45
I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that.
51:46
It's all going to work out and I'm going to win.
51:48
And and it's like, yeah, that's my default and it's always going
51:52
to be there. And like I get into that and I'm
51:54
like, oh God, I'm doing it again.
51:56
The difference is I used to see that and I would beat the shit
52:00
out of myself for having done that.
52:02
And now I'm like you're and I still do beat the shit out of
52:04
myself. Like I am nowhere near perfect.
52:06
Like anybody that knows me knows.
52:08
Like there's the Tom that talks about this program and then
52:11
there's the Tom actually working as fucking program.
52:13
And those are two completely different people.
52:15
But the one thing I'm trying to do is laugh at myself and like
52:20
the people around me that I really respect and I and I reach
52:23
to when I'm struggling or just like, I like spending time with,
52:26
they make fun of me. And, and I like that, you know,
52:31
like in a, in a, in a joking, loving way because I need to
52:34
make fun of myself because I am crazy and the program helps me
52:39
stay sane. But like, it's OK that I'm
52:43
crazy, you know, like you can laugh.
52:44
You gotta laugh. Yeah.
52:45
I heard someone once. Say in a meeting that they they
52:48
could tell how good their program was, how how strong
52:51
their program was by how much they were able to not take
52:55
themselves so seriously, How how much they were able to just
52:57
laugh at themselves. Right.
53:00
It's important. And because the, you know, when
53:02
you take things too seriously, yeah, you drive yourself into
53:04
the ground. And then you have, you know, you
53:06
end up drinking again eventually, right?
53:08
Maybe not right away. You're on the way.
53:10
Yeah, and it's funny too. Because like, I used to like
53:12
quote, like I'd, I'd have a bunch of like army sayings and
53:15
shit, like I was like the worst soldier ever.
53:17
Like, you know, like, well, that's a little harsh.
53:20
I actually, but I have no business walking around being
53:23
like slow as smooth and smooth as fast, you know, just like in
53:26
the teams, like I'm like, shut the fuck up.
53:29
But but God, what was I going to?
53:33
I totally forgot what I was going to say.
53:35
Now see. So like, yeah, I'm totally in,
53:37
in, in like bullshit territory. Ego.
53:39
Yeah, no. Oh, yeah.
53:42
That's what it was. So, you know, one of the things
53:46
like that, I did hear, 'cause I, I actually got to hang out with
53:49
some guys that were pretty good soldiers and they'd be like, you
53:52
know, like, not a lot of shit's worth getting stressed out for.
53:54
This is just a Tuesday. And you hear this on a lot of
53:58
different professions where people have experience and
54:03
they're also like really fucking good at what they do.
54:06
Is there unflappable? Like, shit will happen and
54:09
they'll just be like, yeah, this isn't that bad.
54:12
It's it's really not that bad. Roll all the punches.
54:15
Yeah, and being able to. Like that, that perspective of
54:19
like this isn't really that bad, allows you to stay calm and
54:22
actually make good decisions. And that is something I saw with
54:26
guys that were really good at that being in the Army was they
54:33
were calm no matter what, you know, Grace under pressure.
54:36
Yeah. They weren't like, yeah.
54:38
Let's kick the door in and like, no, no, that was more me.
54:41
I was just. I think it's the difference
54:43
between. Acting in emotion and acting in
54:45
logic too, right? Sometimes it's when I acted in
54:48
emotion, you know, some I'm getting punched, right?
54:51
Eventually I'm getting punched out.
54:53
Yeah, yeah, someone's. Getting hurt and it's.
54:55
Probably going to be me. It always, actually, yeah, I'm
54:57
always getting hurt emotionally or physically.
55:00
I think I'm going to hurt the other guy more, but I end up
55:02
being hurt just as much or enough, if not worse, Right?
55:05
Yeah, yeah. Let's end with this.
55:08
If you could go back and say something to your alcoholic,
55:12
addicted, active, addicted self, what would you say?
55:17
Hi. Go to a meeting.
55:27
Yeah, I would say, you know, God, I would say it's OK, it's
55:38
OK that you give a shit and that you care so much about this and
55:42
every, everything around you. Because that was the problem
55:44
wasn't that I didn't care about people.
55:46
It was that I felt like I would, every time somebody would hurt
55:50
me or something wouldn't go the way I wanted, I get I really
55:54
cared about the things that I did.
55:56
And then they wouldn't work out the way I wanted and I would get
55:58
angry. There's nothing wrong with
56:01
caring about your life and wanting to help people because a
56:06
lot of times I wanted, I really wanted to just help people.
56:09
What's that? It's it's what do you do with
56:12
those emotions when things don't go the way you thought they
56:16
should go? How do you find the stoicism of
56:21
like letting go? And that I was always looking
56:26
for an instruction manual to life.
56:29
And that manual is the big book. That's the answer for that was
56:35
the answer for me of how do I, how do I keep caring about
56:38
people? How do I keep showing up without
56:42
having my heart ripped out and without feeling like this anger
56:46
and the self-centered fear all the time.
56:48
And I just had to read the fucking book.
56:52
And yeah, so I, yeah, but that passed page 125.
57:01
I think I might know that because that came up yesterday.
57:06
Like our all of these, all of the suffering that we went
57:09
through becomes our greatest strength.
57:12
So I don't know, I guess like, it's nice to say, yeah, maybe
57:16
I'd go back in time and fix things, but like, I don't know
57:20
if I'd really want that kind of responsibility.
57:23
Yeah. Love it.
57:25
Thanks so much. Tom, I appreciate you, buddy.
57:27
Thanks man. Thanks for listening.
57:31
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