Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Fallout Season 2 with Costume Designer Dayna Pink and Key Background Costumer Christopher Lawrence

Transcript

Fallout Season 2 with Costume Designer Dayna Pink and Key Background Costumer Christopher Lawrence · The Art of Costume Podcast

• 0:13
  I am so excited for today's conversation because I'm being
• 0:17
  joined by two of my favorite people to talk about one of my
• 0:20
  favorite shows and current existence.
• 0:23
  We're talking to Fallout Season 2 costume designer Dana Pink and
• 0:27
  key background costumer Christopher Lawrence.
• 0:29
  Hey, team, it's so good to see you.
• 0:31
  Hey. Spencer.
• 0:33
  It's, I mean, I've been looking forward to this.
• 0:35
  I mean, Dana, you're one of my favorite people to talk to.
• 0:37
  And Chris, I've been trying to get you on a podcast for a
• 0:39
  minute now. So this this worked out
• 0:41
  perfectly. Well, we're so happy to be here.
• 0:43
  Great. Well, let's dive into everything
• 0:46
  follow. I mean, first, before we get
• 0:47
  into it, huge congratulations on a recent Emmy nomination for
• 0:51
  Outstanding Fantasy sci-fi Costumes.
• 0:54
  I know this is such a ambitious series of so much lore to it and
• 0:58
  so many people loving it. And what does it mean to have
• 1:01
  your work and the work of your entire costume team recognized
• 1:04
  in this way? Well, it's a huge it's an honor
• 1:10
  to have, you know, know people that that are enjoying the show,
• 1:13
  you know, like we create, we create and we always work the
• 1:19
  same. We give 100% no matter what.
• 1:21
  But to know how it's being received is really cool.
• 1:24
  Like it just means so much to us to know that people are really
• 1:27
  liking it. And it's true.
• 1:28
  It is so ambitious. It is like we would not believe
• 1:33
  what our days look like, feel like, sound like, but you know,
• 1:38
  to it, it's worth it anyway. But really, when people love it,
• 1:42
  then it just makes it that much more exciting.
• 1:44
  And I, I think it's great that this show in particular has been
• 1:47
  recognized because it's one of the few shows of this scale that
• 1:51
  is being done not only in Los Angeles, but also in the United
• 1:55
  States. Like, they're not a lot of these
• 1:58
  huge scale shows that are being done here.
• 1:59
  And to have us spotlighted and spotlight the amazing work of
• 2:04
  all the the crew members that are here in LA, all the artists
• 2:07
  that are here in Lai think it's such a nice, nice way to
• 2:10
  underline that. Yeah, it's so cool to have
• 2:13
  Fallout home here, which and loft shows and films are doing
• 2:17
  at the moment, but this show is feel transportive.
• 2:20
  I mean, you would think this takes place in Nevada, so I'm
• 2:23
  really excited to get into that. All right, so let's dive into
• 2:27
  everything Fallout. I have to be upfront, I'm a
• 2:29
  pretty big Fallout nerd. I've been playing Fallout games
• 2:33
  forever, Fallout New Vegas. I also recently got a Fallout
• 2:37
  tattoo, but just to put the rumors to rest.
• 2:40
  I did not get it for this podcast before anyone says that,
• 2:47
  but you all were on my mind so maybe inspired it a little bit.
• 2:52
  When you first joined the series, I how did you all
• 2:55
  immerse yourself in the world? I mean I have this fun image of
• 2:58
  Dana Pink just sitting at home and her P JS playing Fallout all
• 3:01
  night long, but like what are you playing the?
• 3:04
  Games or are you relying on this?
• 3:06
  Yeah, just let me live in my fantasy, Christopher the.
• 3:10
  Production designer Howard Cummings, who is ridiculously
• 3:13
  talented and amazing. He is full on 24/7.
• 3:18
  He listens to it. It's on in his car.
• 3:21
  He does like he that's him. Mine was more, you know, even
• 3:26
  though we are, we're in the spirit of a period, we're not
• 3:29
  true to a period. But mine was more sort of period
• 3:34
  and game like. I have a lot of books.
• 3:37
  I have all the Fallout books and I did look at the games, but you
• 3:42
  know, for me to sit and play it would take up so much time more.
• 3:47
  I think my time was better spent, you know, really doing
• 3:50
  the research than playing it. So I can't say that I'm a video
• 3:54
  game girl, but I am in love with what it looks like and our
• 3:59
  interpretation of it. I'm really proud of and I really
• 4:03
  consistently try and, you know, use that as a base and then as a
• 4:08
  springboard as well. So we really try and stay true
• 4:11
  to it and then we try and add a little surprise here and there.
• 4:15
  Yeah. Absolutely, Christopher, what
• 4:16
  about you? Well, I can say, you know, in my
• 4:18
  department I have a a few fitters that work with me.
• 4:23
  We have Felicia Jarvis, Patrick Glendenning and Beryl Brockman
• 4:26
  last year. And Patrick actually is was our
• 4:29
  resident Fallout nerd like yourself, Spencer.
• 4:32
  And he would he, I guess you can avatar yourself throughout the
• 4:36
  game in different costumes from the game.
• 4:39
  So he would do that and have that as a reference so he could
• 4:42
  look back at the game and interpret it into real life
• 4:46
  clothes. For me.
• 4:48
  I watched the show, You know, we knew we had the job as the
• 4:53
  season had already, season 1 had dropped.
• 4:56
  And it was great to sort of see a really strong foundation, a
• 5:01
  strong and inspiring foundation. And then whenever you join, you
• 5:05
  know, a second season or a sequel or any of those things,
• 5:07
  then you get to put your special sauce on it.
• 5:11
  And if one thing Dana has, it's a lot of special sauce and you
• 5:15
  know, she brings it in. She she has a secret weapon of
• 5:19
  bringing all of other really talented costume designers.
• 5:23
  Almost everyone in my department is a costume designer as well.
• 5:27
  So we all get to put in our special sauce and it just
• 5:30
  creates a really incredible recipe.
• 5:34
  I guess I'm gonna use that metaphor.
• 5:37
  I mean, it's a great setup because I want to dive into that
• 5:41
  special sauce, as you were saying.
• 5:42
  Christopher I Dana, recently I watched a indie wire panel that
• 5:48
  you did. And in that panel you said we
• 5:50
  have the language of the game that we love.
• 5:52
  But it's yes. And so can you expand on what
• 5:55
  that philosophy means from a costume design perspective?
• 5:59
  Where do you honor the source material and where do you give
• 6:01
  yourselves permission to evolve it for this heightened
• 6:05
  television series? And you know, like you said, you
• 6:07
  also have this incredible period background.
• 6:10
  I mean, we've talked about Lovecraft Country, which I
• 6:12
  loved, feels all like it, like your career has kind of been
• 6:16
  leading up to Fallout. That's interesting and and not
• 6:21
  untrue because this is all the things that I've done before,
• 6:24
  plus more and and part of why I love my job is that everyone is
• 6:31
  an opportunity to learn something to grow yourself in
• 6:35
  some beautiful way. And this one was an endless
• 6:39
  opportunity and still continues to be that because we molded
• 6:44
  leather and, and made 3D molds of things and, and did things
• 6:51
  that I hadn't really done before, especially not in house.
• 6:54
  You know, we did so many things in house.
• 6:56
  I have an amazing specialty costumer.
• 7:00
  The head of my specialty department was Deborah Amber
• 7:02
  Zino, and she's so talented. And we were just making the
• 7:06
  craziest stuff that I wouldn't have known how to do before.
• 7:10
  And so that was, you know, it's always cool to learn something.
• 7:13
  But to answer your first question, you know, it's all in
• 7:18
  the details. So we're honoring what the game
• 7:21
  was, and then we get to add details that you couldn't see or
• 7:25
  didn't exist. And so there was kind of that,
• 7:28
  you know, we did the Khans and we did the Kings and even the
• 7:31
  Legion. There's pictures of what the
• 7:34
  Legion is, but exactly what that was.
• 7:37
  There were so many of them that we got to sort of take the base
• 7:42
  of what they are and then add to that.
• 7:44
  And, and all the details were mostly our own made-up, which is
• 7:48
  really cool. But we did find it very
• 7:51
  important to honor the fans, honor the game, honor Bethesda,
• 7:56
  because that's what this is and that's what people want to see.
• 7:59
  So we want them to be excited about it.
• 8:01
  And then we also want to surprise them a little and and
• 8:04
  give them the little bonus the and of it all.
• 8:08
  Yeah, and the reason why I really want to include
• 8:10
  Christopher as well. I mean, first big fan.
• 8:13
  But aside from that, when I think of Fallout, I think of the
• 8:17
  world building, right? If you step away from the main
• 8:19
  characters, there's still this rich world of storytelling and
• 8:23
  world building revolving around Lucy and the Ghoul and Maximus
• 8:27
  happening at all times. And every time you join in on
• 8:30
  another character's perspective, every single person has a story
• 8:34
  so crisper from your perspective.
• 8:36
  Why are the background costumes so essential to making the
• 8:40
  wasteland feel real? Well, you know, I think that
• 8:45
  background costumes are always is always, you know, the
• 8:49
  environment in which these people navigate through and
• 8:52
  really does set the tone. Dana brings us, you know, her,
• 8:58
  her ideas, her palette, her, her world that she wants to go into.
• 9:03
  And then we go out into the the costume houses and the junk
• 9:07
  yards and all the different kinds of places pulling things
• 9:10
  together to kind of try to build this world together.
• 9:15
  And that's when she's not when Dana's talking about the
• 9:17
  details, you know, the Legion, No2 Legion are the same like
• 9:21
  there's always like a different armband or a different rap.
• 9:25
  And I think we, we meet the background artist and Dana says,
• 9:32
  oh, that like for a free side or New Vegas, she says, well, he
• 9:35
  was a dealer. She was a High Roller.
• 9:38
  And we, we continue that when she's not there.
• 9:40
  We are, we say, like, who is she?
• 9:42
  Who is that person? I, I once made the, you know,
• 9:47
  mistake. I said we were just getting
• 9:50
  started with free side. And every time we start a new
• 9:52
  world, it's a new world. So we don't know what we're
• 9:56
  doing. We're like, OK, how do we bring
• 10:00
  this to life? And I said, well, you know, I
• 10:04
  think she was busy that morning. And because Dana's involved in
• 10:06
  every fitting, if she's not in there, she's seeing a picture
• 10:09
  all day long. And I, I, I said, well, you
• 10:11
  know, we'll start off with kind of just some generic costumes.
• 10:14
  And she was like, whoa, there are no generic costumes.
• 10:19
  And, and, and that's in just people walking down the street
• 10:22
  in the flashback, everybody is a somebody is sort of the Dana
• 10:25
  mantra. And you know, so, so when people
• 10:28
  walk in, we, we look at their faces, we decide who they are.
• 10:32
  And one really fun aspect of this is that game, you know, of
• 10:37
  that's a we had one guy came in and Dana decided he was a
• 10:42
  crossdresser, you know, and. He liked it and he said yes, I
• 10:47
  didn't do it, but you know, I wouldn't have done it had he
• 10:49
  done. Do it.
• 10:51
  He he loved it. We and we had one guy who was
• 10:54
  like, because, because in the Las Vegas.
• 10:56
  So we think about like who's going to be in Las Vegas?
• 10:58
  You know, the drug addict, the the the trust dresser, the
• 11:02
  showgirl, and then you have to kind of turn to the person and
• 11:05
  say, Oh, well, we think you're the guy who's flashing people on
• 11:09
  the strip. But they also, I think that
• 11:12
  gives them something to do too and brings up brings a life to
• 11:15
  their performance as supporting, you know, background that that
• 11:18
  really adds to the texture of the show.
• 11:21
  And I was gonna ask you all about free side because, I mean,
• 11:24
  it's a district within a New Vegas.
• 11:26
  And like you said, it's just right outside the New Vegas
• 11:29
  gates. And it's a whole, you know,
• 11:31
  ecosystem with all sorts of different people, much like the
• 11:33
  Vegas that we all know in our own reality.
• 11:35
  I mean, anyone is there essentially.
• 11:39
  So I mean, how many it It's so huge when you look at it.
• 11:43
  I went back and rewatched it today.
• 11:45
  How many background characters do you feel like we're fitting
• 11:48
  or putting on the set? It it feels unreal when you look
• 11:52
  at it. We had 176 costumes.
• 11:56
  Wow. Complete Complete Costumes in a
• 11:58
  bag 176. That's a lot.
• 12:01
  That's a lot. I think it sounds like a lot to
• 12:03
  me. It's a lot.
• 12:04
  It's a lot when you think about, you know, I sometimes feel
• 12:08
  people think you just go to that part of the costume house that
• 12:11
  has that costume. And the fallout section.
• 12:14
  You know, if only right, Dana, I mean, we have great.
• 12:18
  Free side and pull it. Yeah, there's such a we had to
• 12:21
  have a great shopper named Rita Lee Burton who Dana would be
• 12:24
  like go find gaskets. And you know, like because the
• 12:28
  season one with the with Philly, they started off with one
• 12:31
  particular kind of Viva post apocalyptic.
• 12:34
  What Dana brought to this what what what we were all allowed to
• 12:38
  bring to the second season was to really root it in 50s and
• 12:41
  keep, it's really like everything we do is still a
• 12:44
  1950s costume or or piece of, you know, clothing that we then
• 12:49
  have to translate into the post apocalyptic world.
• 12:52
  So that's when we're doing the scavenger hunt.
• 12:55
  So yeah, there's not one thing came from 1:00.
• 12:58
  Not one costume came from one place.
• 13:00
  It's many places. Dana, let's stay on the 1950s
• 13:04
  aspect of it all. In this season especially, we
• 13:07
  got to see a lot of flashback to flashbacks to 1950s Vegas, which
• 13:12
  if you play the games, you don't really get that.
• 13:14
  So there's a lot of creative license, I feel like, in these
• 13:17
  moments. So can we talk about developing
• 13:20
  that aesthetic? I mean, 1950s Vegas is fun, just
• 13:24
  without the Fallout aspect of it all.
• 13:26
  So we're incorporating vintage garments, custom builds.
• 13:31
  How do you balance that historical authenticity while
• 13:33
  also bringing in the balance of that heightened world of
• 13:36
  fallout? What's so cool about this show
• 13:40
  in particular is it's the 50s ish, right?
• 13:44
  Because it isn't actually the 50s.
• 13:45
  So we rooted in the shapes into the silhouette of the 50s, but
• 13:50
  we don't have to stay true to it because there's a post
• 13:53
  apocalyptic futuristic, you know, we don't have to use all
• 13:57
  the fabrics from that time. So we could veer into late 50s,
• 14:01
  we could veer into almost 60s and anything earlier.
• 14:05
  So we just got to take the glam because if we're going Vegas and
• 14:09
  or California or the different places.
• 14:12
  So we took the Hollywood glamour of it a little bit of shine for
• 14:17
  the futuristic of it, the Voltec of it.
• 14:20
  And so that's kind of it's all a mash up of all those things
• 14:24
  rooted in the spirit of the 50s. Not exactly.
• 14:27
  It's not the letter of it, but it's certainly the spirit of it.
• 14:30
  I think when Dana says you know, the yes, the yes, and I think
• 14:33
  when you look at Barb's clothes, I think that's such a great
• 14:38
  example of the yes. And they are classic 50s
• 14:40
  silhouettes, but Barb's clothes all have just a little extra
• 14:44
  something that you wouldn't have seen it in the 50s.
• 14:47
  It's special and unique to fall out into Dana's work.
• 14:50
  Barbara's so much fun. I mean, we could probably do a
• 14:52
  museum exhibition of Barbara's costume.
• 14:54
  So might want to consider consider that coffee table book
• 14:57
  team. Let's check in on a few
• 15:00
  different worlds and cultures that we saw in season 2.
• 15:03
  I know a favorite of all yours is actually this moment where we
• 15:05
  get to check into the sunset Sasparilla, A bottling plant.
• 15:09
  This could have been a scene where we just had a bunch of
• 15:12
  kids and dumpy clothes. But again, I really saw a lot of
• 15:16
  the world building here in this moment.
• 15:18
  I mean, every different, you know, a child felt like they had
• 15:22
  their own stories in this, in this sad little bottling plant.
• 15:25
  What was it about the scene that was so much fun for you all?
• 15:28
  I. Think that was probably my
• 15:29
  favorite background scene to to figure out because when the kids
• 15:35
  came in, we did have we had some costumes, some little vintage
• 15:39
  costumes and we had some pyjamas and we just had like some racks
• 15:42
  of clothes and we didn't know what it was.
• 15:44
  But out of somewhere in the first couple kids, there was
• 15:47
  like a little cowgirl and then there was a little like aviator
• 15:52
  and there were just all these things, but they weren't like
• 15:55
  Halloween type costumes that they were just sort of weird
• 16:00
  fantasy kind of period combinations.
• 16:04
  And again, it was like, who is this child?
• 16:07
  And how can we make this fantastical 50s version with the
• 16:12
  story behind it? And they didn't know, like, they
• 16:16
  would put the costumes on. And, you know, we don't have
• 16:18
  mirrors there, really. They're not all kind of looking
• 16:20
  and seeing. But they were, you know,
• 16:22
  adorable kids and whatever. And then I think they felt like,
• 16:26
  oh, these are dirty clothes. And, and then on the day when
• 16:31
  you dress them, and then they see each other and they're all
• 16:34
  coming out and this one's in this costume and this one's in
• 16:37
  another costume. They see each other.
• 16:39
  They see this set, which is incredible.
• 16:42
  And it becomes this whole world. Then that that was magic to
• 16:46
  create help to create how those kids felt when they were in that
• 16:50
  space. It brought them into character
• 16:52
  there. I get it now.
• 16:54
  This is the world that we're living in.
• 16:56
  And that gives. I mean, that's exciting for them
• 16:58
  too, because they get to understand or maybe make their
• 17:00
  own stories for their own characters.
• 17:02
  Yeah, it was like a painting. It was like all the elements of
• 17:06
  this thing coming together and then going into that factory and
• 17:09
  seeing those children standing there in Howard's beautiful
• 17:12
  environment and the lighting and everything else that's
• 17:16
  happening. It was really cool.
• 17:18
  It was really, really fun to to experience.
• 17:21
  I will I will say the background when they're, when they get
• 17:24
  dressed, they say This is why they got into the business.
• 17:28
  Like these kids got to play make believe on such a grand scale.
• 17:33
  But even our our Legionnaires and our our Brotherhood of Steel
• 17:38
  guys, they're they're having the best time because they are
• 17:40
  wearing costumes and they are making movies, which is really
• 17:44
  rewarding. Yeah, hey, I get it.
• 17:46
  I mean, the FOMO is real. If there was any show out there
• 17:48
  that I could just kind of backpack on any of your backs,
• 17:51
  it would be follow. I just wanna, I just wanna watch
• 17:53
  and see all the magic happened one day.
• 17:56
  I have FOMO, I have FOMO and I'm working on it.
• 17:59
  Like I barely get to be on set 'cause we're so busy.
• 18:02
  But when you walk into the Legion camp and you see
• 18:06
  everything, and then you see what we've done on tab and you
• 18:09
  see these actors and you see the hair and makeup and it all comes
• 18:12
  together, all this hard work and the amazing writing, you know,
• 18:17
  the lighting, everything. When you see it all come
• 18:19
  together in this, like it, doesn't it?
• 18:23
  I don't take it for granted. I know how how fortunate I am to
• 18:26
  participate in something that is so meaningful and so cool and so
• 18:31
  ambitious. Yeah, you, you don't have to
• 18:35
  admit it here, but I like to imagine you all behind the
• 18:37
  scenes are walking around in your Legionnaire costume or
• 18:39
  power armor just to feel something 'cause I mean, how can
• 18:42
  you not? It's.
• 18:44
  It's been hot enough that I've wanted to wear one of the Legion
• 18:47
  tunics. It's been.
• 18:48
  That hot? Yeah, there you go.
• 18:52
  Well going into the season, I was excited to see two things,
• 18:56
  which is Kaiser's Legion and a new California Republic because
• 18:59
  that is so integral to the DNA of of Fallout New Vegas.
• 19:04
  I'm every nerd out there was just ramping up waiting to see
• 19:07
  how you all would bring these groups to life.
• 19:10
  So let's start with the Legion first.
• 19:12
  This is a group of people who fashioned themselves off of the
• 19:15
  Roman Empire ish or what they believed to be the Roman Empire.
• 19:20
  So how did you all balance honoring that Romanesque
• 19:24
  influence and while making a Legion feel believable to the
• 19:27
  world of the show? We had a blueprint, you know, we
• 19:31
  definitely had a blueprint for what it was in the game and all
• 19:35
  the different, you know, the Centurion and, and all the, the
• 19:38
  Candace, all the different, you know, characters in there.
• 19:42
  So like Christopher said, nobody, there wasn't one person
• 19:46
  that was dressed exactly like the other, but there are
• 19:48
  veterans and there are recruits. And so we had to stay true to
• 19:52
  that and just play within that a little bit.
• 19:57
  It definitely, you know, was what the game told us.
• 20:00
  That was the language that we used.
• 20:03
  But you know, how we created it and what it ended up looking
• 20:07
  like. And fans are so funny because I
• 20:10
  kind of knew this was going to happen.
• 20:12
  So when you see in the game the Decanasi that it had the the
• 20:17
  helmet and then there were these.
• 20:21
  These kind of hanging, I don't know what it was in the game
• 20:25
  that, that, that, that the reference picture was, but I, we
• 20:29
  made the helmet and I decided I wanted to braid them.
• 20:32
  I thought it would be really cool.
• 20:34
  It just seemed tougher and, and I thought it would move better.
• 20:38
  And when they moved, I could just see kind of like a slow
• 20:41
  motion to it. And you know, there was
• 20:43
  something about it that I just wanted to see it braided.
• 20:46
  So I talked to Deborah and we braided it and I just thought it
• 20:49
  looked amazing. And I was like, OK, we're doing
• 20:51
  this. This is so cool.
• 20:52
  It was like the one thing that was changed.
• 20:55
  And of course, and I was so proud of it.
• 20:58
  I loved it. But of course, as I was like
• 21:00
  looking through comments on the Legion, why did they braid the,
• 21:07
  you know, every because people know people watch there's fans.
• 21:12
  And it was not at all disrespect or anything.
• 21:15
  I just thought it was going to look really cool, you know, but
• 21:18
  people notice and it was just a reminder of the importance of
• 21:23
  the source material that we have and to just keep using that and
• 21:27
  keep respecting that because it matters to people.
• 21:30
  And I have enough room to play. I play all day long with fabrics
• 21:35
  and things in the flashbacks, and so it is really important
• 21:38
  that I think we honor what this material is telling us.
• 21:42
  And you are you are always bringing us book, you know, the
• 21:45
  books and saying like we're looking through pages for
• 21:47
  inspiration and taking pieces and and ideas from all the
• 21:50
  source material. It really is our Bible.
• 21:54
  Yeah, well, I have to say, I mean, what you all did with the
• 21:56
  Legion was super exciting to me as a fan because, I mean, it
• 22:00
  took me right there and what I like to imagine these people
• 22:04
  evolving over the years. So to all the following nerds
• 22:07
  out there, I mean, take a back seat a little bit 'cause there's
• 22:09
  so much fun storytelling happening here.
• 22:14
  Let's also talk about the adversaries to the Legion, which
• 22:16
  would be the New California Republic.
• 22:18
  To me, they've always had that Western dusty sheriff kind of
• 22:22
  look. And when we get to meet them in
• 22:25
  this story, they're essentially in shambles.
• 22:27
  When we meet them, I mean, they're really falling apart.
• 22:30
  At this moment, there's no organization amongst the NCR, so
• 22:33
  how did you communicate that decline through costume while
• 22:37
  still preserving a visual identity that the fans
• 22:40
  recognize? Well, if where does it start and
• 22:44
  where does it go? So we build them new and then we
• 22:49
  age them within an inch of anything.
• 22:53
  Then it's just, you know, what could possibly happen.
• 22:55
  And, you know, we have such amazing age or dyers that, you
• 23:00
  know, it isn't like you're just standing them down, you know,
• 23:03
  without thought. It's the elbows, it's the knees,
• 23:06
  it's, you know, the fraying, it's the pockets, it's just all
• 23:08
  the things. And so they age them as if, you
• 23:11
  know, what happened. Did this guy get shot?
• 23:14
  Did this guy get, you know, what did something RIP?
• 23:17
  So, so that's it. It's, you know, what would have
• 23:20
  happened after so many years. And so you're seeing them in
• 23:24
  that condition because we're saying that's what they've lived
• 23:27
  through and we're trying to tell that through the costume.
• 23:30
  And Christopher, working with the NCR, what was that like from
• 23:32
  your perspective? I mean, I suppose the NCR is the
• 23:35
  most regimented of what we do. So it is kind of the
• 23:39
  storytelling, as Dana's saying, through the history of each
• 23:41
  particular soldier I love. And I think Dana was surprised
• 23:47
  when I I, when I first saw the Rangers.
• 23:50
  I just think it's, it's a very clean costume, but it is so
• 23:56
  striking within the world of Fallout, you know, cuz most of
• 24:01
  our costumes are a little chaotic.
• 24:03
  You know, the wastelanders all have this stuff, the
• 24:05
  Legionnaire, and then you just have this, this strong pillar.
• 24:10
  You know that it's just such great force and it that is such
• 24:13
  a strong that is that's the role in the show as well.
• 24:15
  It's like when they show up, it's kind of over, like you're
• 24:18
  done. So I I bet for me, that costume,
• 24:21
  I really, I really love that costume.
• 24:23
  Yeah. And I think that's also true to
• 24:27
  the, you know, that was something that was recognizable
• 24:28
  when the show came up. It was like, oh, the NCR Rangers
• 24:31
  are here, and you felt that when you saw their costumes.
• 24:33
  This is when you don't want to mess with.
• 24:35
  And that ended up being true. We spoke a little bit about the
• 24:39
  Wasteland and just how fun and wild it is.
• 24:42
  I just want to ask you all, what would you say your favorite
• 24:45
  piece of found material, scrap or unexpected textile that you
• 24:49
  came across during your time in the wasteland?
• 24:53
  Christopher, do you have one? I actually I do.
• 24:56
  You know what? I think it was Rita or maybe our
• 24:59
  ACD Annie Jewell brought in a pinkish red like bolero hat with
• 25:06
  little hearts that went around it.
• 25:08
  And we get these things and we go, what the heck is this?
• 25:11
  What am I gonna do with this? And then the guy walks in and
• 25:15
  you go. Maybe he worked for.
• 25:19
  Maybe he's a performer on the strip.
• 25:21
  And then you start pulling pieces and, you know, he then
• 25:25
  this, this, this thing comes together.
• 25:27
  This, this character comes together.
• 25:29
  And every day that I saw that guy, you know, on set, I just, I
• 25:33
  just looked at him and smiled. It's a dumb little hat that is
• 25:37
  just so cool. Nobody could pull it off.
• 25:40
  I'd get beat up if I wore it. Yeah.
• 25:43
  And this guy, this guy just, he just, he just sings in it.
• 25:46
  And I think that that would be mine.
• 25:48
  My favorite part? Favorite guy?
• 25:49
  I got to go back. I have a picture of it I'll send
• 25:52
  to you. So many, you know, there's so
• 25:56
  really the kids to me, the kids, just all of them, the little
• 26:03
  girl in the aviator outfit and the cowgirl were two and the boy
• 26:08
  in the crop shirt and the high sailor pants.
• 26:11
  Like to me, all those those were like favorites and and kind of
• 26:15
  unforgettable to me because they didn't exist.
• 26:19
  And then we put these pieces together and it became magic,
• 26:23
  you know, just looking at it separately without that person
• 26:27
  wasn't anything. And then putting it all
• 26:29
  together, it really becomes something super special, you
• 26:32
  know, So I don't know if I had a piece, but I definitely had
• 26:35
  certain certain background people to me that were indelible
• 26:39
  and that I think helped create the show because, you know,
• 26:42
  basically Max had one. Well, we got to make him
• 26:45
  something so, but Max had two, you know, Luby's mostly in her
• 26:49
  vault suit until the yellow dress.
• 26:52
  The ghoul is the ghoul. So it's like there's these
• 26:54
  consistent costumes that walk through.
• 26:56
  So therefore the background is a character.
• 26:59
  So all these these people support, they become part of the
• 27:04
  environment and they support these actors and what they're
• 27:07
  doing in the scenes, but they're so integral because we really
• 27:11
  are looking at the same costume, you know, for a lot of screen
• 27:16
  time. So it just makes the background
• 27:18
  more important, I think. And so therefore every scene and
• 27:22
  and it's always, listen, I could say, oh, this is more important.
• 27:25
  The truth is I care about every shoelace, every shoe, every
• 27:28
  sock, no matter what. That's just who I am.
• 27:30
  I can't not to. An annoying degree.
• 27:34
  She cares, no? But the right the.
• 27:38
  Right the right the bows tied the right way.
• 27:40
  I mean it's no detail is too small.
• 27:44
  I but I love that, you know, it's all part of this beautiful
• 27:48
  picture and we all create it. There's so many hands here.
• 27:51
  There's so many paintbrushes here.
• 27:53
  Christopher's eye, Christopher's, you know how he
• 27:56
  overseas his department and all the details that you know, he
• 28:01
  does what I do before I do it. So he does the sweep, we do all
• 28:05
  the fittings, everything. Everybody gets dressed.
• 28:08
  And then Christopher walks through, you know, re ties the
• 28:11
  tie does it, you know, he just does it.
• 28:13
  Then I come through a second time after he's already done it.
• 28:15
  So it's like this has already gone through all these, like
• 28:19
  these eyes and these hands and these people pulling the things,
• 28:23
  aging the things, painting the things, trying on.
• 28:26
  So, so many hands touch it. This is not accidental.
• 28:30
  This is all very deliberate. This is all curated, you know,
• 28:35
  every part about it is art. And so, you know, we all
• 28:40
  contribute to the art and I'm so grateful for every hand that
• 28:42
  touches it because that's part of this, you know, the the
• 28:45
  writers inspire it, the actors become it.
• 28:48
  You know, it's just this whole collaboration.
• 28:51
  That is what I do. I don't go home and make a
• 28:54
  sculpture. This is my art.
• 28:56
  And so being part of this and being the last I to say the yes,
• 29:00
  no, and then me going in and retying the thing just exactly
• 29:04
  the way that I want it becomes. I don't know, there's just
• 29:08
  something really magical about the culmination of all this.
• 29:13
  And then it, you know, finally airing and me talking to you
• 29:17
  about it and sitting here with Christopher and, and just
• 29:20
  remembering everything that we we went through together.
• 29:22
  This is a journey, you know, this was like it's a marathon
• 29:26
  what we do. And and I appreciate I don't
• 29:29
  take it for granted, but it is not, you know, it's a lot of
• 29:32
  hands and eyes. Well, just as a fan, it's so fun
• 29:36
  to see every episode and just kind of look around in the
• 29:38
  background and find all these characters and Easter eggs and
• 29:41
  learn all these different stories and make our own stories
• 29:44
  in our heads too, and try to understand who these people are
• 29:48
  and with. I'm super excited to see what
• 29:50
  you all do in Season 3 to end what continues to inspire you
• 29:54
  all about working in this universe and what makes it such
• 29:57
  a creatively fulfilling show. I, I would say, though, what's
• 30:01
  really inspiring about this, and it's going to sound corny, but
• 30:04
  I, you know, I'm already, I already have the job.
• 30:07
  So I'm saying it from my heart. It's working with Dana, it's
• 30:09
  working with a costume designer that brings, you know, the,
• 30:14
  she's the first designer I've worked with that says, calls
• 30:17
  this her art. And it's such a great reminder
• 30:21
  that what we are doing is, are all of us in the costume world?
• 30:24
  You know, we didn't get into this to be accountants and, and
• 30:28
  all that other stuff that we have to do managers where we
• 30:31
  were in it for the art. And it's a constant reminder
• 30:33
  working with Dana and the amount that she cares that makes it
• 30:37
  art. I've learned so much as a
• 30:38
  designer. I've learned so much from her
• 30:40
  about not compromising, you know, like standing up for your
• 30:44
  art, standing up for your design.
• 30:46
  So that really inspires me. And, and, you know, the scripts
• 30:49
  and, and the story gives her such rich food to, to, to do
• 30:55
  that with. It's it's a great job to have
• 30:59
  and it's great job to share with Dana.
• 31:00
  I'm. Going to just cry and then I'll
• 31:03
  be back to you. That's so sweet.
• 31:07
  You know, right back at you. Because the truth is, is like, I
• 31:11
  could not do what I do without the help that I have.
• 31:16
  And that is, you know, Christopher is the perfect
• 31:19
  example of a designer that I get to have work with me and, and
• 31:24
  help to create. And I get his eye and his
• 31:26
  expertise because he's making his own, you know, film, you
• 31:31
  know, I, I say upstairs, downstairs, because our office
• 31:33
  upstairs. So, so there's like department.
• 31:36
  So he's making his own. So he no has his own world that
• 31:40
  he's creating as well, even even before my eyes.
• 31:44
  So, you know, just the opportunity to be able to work
• 31:48
  with all these artists, you know, the the Christopher, the
• 31:52
  Deborah Emberzino that did I had Terry Anderson and Annie Jewell
• 31:56
  and then my amazing department, that's the Ager Dyer.
• 32:00
  So there's that that I get to collaborate with and there's an
• 32:03
  amazing material that continues to evolve and there's new worlds
• 32:08
  every season and new factions every season.
• 32:11
  So this season that we're shooting now is totally
• 32:14
  different. You know, it's like, what's
• 32:17
  great is this isn't one thing that you're just like, oh,
• 32:20
  what's a new outfit? No, what's a new world?
• 32:23
  And so it is endless and boundless and inspiring.
• 32:27
  And I, I cannot turn my camera around.
• 32:29
  But if you could see, what was right behind my computer right
• 32:32
  now that we built was the Christopher.
• 32:35
  You know the piece I'm talking about.
• 32:36
  That's absolutely not fair, Dana.
• 32:39
  I can't show you what it is, but let me just tell you, we created
• 32:43
  this thing that we thought of. We made all these people made.
• 32:48
  And then we yes. And it, it was in the script,
• 32:52
  but we created this amazing thing with so many hands and
• 32:55
  it's such art and, and it is supposed to be some character
• 32:59
  thing. But anyway, what it became was
• 33:02
  way more than what it was on the page.
• 33:04
  And it is every reason that I'm sitting here talking to you and
• 33:07
  excited every day to come to work because we get to create
• 33:11
  with each other things that didn't exist in the world, and
• 33:15
  we get to bring them to life in our own beautiful, magical way
• 33:19
  with all these beautiful eyes and hands.
• 33:21
  And like, how can I even want more than that?
• 33:24
  How could I ask for more than being able to make art, create
• 33:29
  it with other people, and have it be received by people as
• 33:33
  something they love and joy are inspired by and want to see and
• 33:36
  talk to you. Who is a fan of the game, a fan
• 33:39
  of the show? Like, how could you not love it?
• 33:41
  How could I not feel blessed and lucky?
• 33:44
  Well, we're going to stop there, but we have so much more fallout
• 33:47
  coming up in the future, so I hope you all will join me back.
• 33:50
  This is creatively fulfilling for me.
• 33:52
  I love listening to your your guys.
• 33:54
  It's process, the ideas behind the world building and the
• 33:57
  character development. I mean, this was just Rich and I
• 34:00
  could just talk to you too, all day long.
• 34:02
  But you have some work to do. So I'm going to let you go
• 34:04
  because I'm excited to see this thing that's behind the camera
• 34:08
  on screen one day. So I'm going to let you put the
• 34:11
  finishing touches on costume designer Dana Pink and key
• 34:14
  background costumer Christopher Lawrence.
• 34:16
  Thank you so much for joining me.
• 34:17
  This has been such a pleasure and congratulations again.
• 34:21
  I'm so happy for the both of you and your entire team.
• 34:23
  Thank you. Thanks for having us.
• 34:26
  Thanks, Spencer. The Costume House with Spencer
• 34:29
  Williams is a production of The Art of Costume.
• 34:31
  This episode was hosted, produced and edited by Spencer
• 34:34
  Williams. To discover more conversations
• 34:36
  with the designer shaping film, television and theater, visit
• 34:40
  theartofcostume.com or follow us on social media at The Art of
• 34:44
  Costume. And don't forget to connect with
• 34:46
  me on Instagram at host Spencer. If you enjoyed this
• 34:48
  conversation, be sure to follow and subscribe wherever you
• 34:51
  listen to podcasts or watch on YouTube and stay tuned for more
• 34:55
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• 34:57
  captivating films, television series, and stage plays.