Latest / The Art of Adjusting® Podcast / Episode #72 - Let Freedom Ring Adjuster Superpowers

Transcript

Episode #72 - Let Freedom Ring Adjuster Superpowers · The Art of Adjusting® Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm Bill Auten of Auten Claims Management.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I'm Chantel Roberts of CMR Consulting and welcome to the Art of Adjusting podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Today we're gonna talk about life as an insurance adjuster from the perspective of property, auto liability or workers' compensation adjusters.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Our goal is to bring interesting topics in the world of claims adjusting to people who are working as an adjuster now and to people who are considering a career as a claims agent.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Hi, Sandy, how are you doing?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I'm great.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Chantel, how are you?
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm doing well.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: We are going to be talking today about some adjuster superpowers.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I just thought that this would be great, right in time for the 4th of July, to talk about.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: You know all of the things that adjusters do, that we do well, and why adjusters are awesome because we are.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, doing the Lord's work here, because, yes, adjusters are usually on the end of people who are unhappy have complaints, but very rarely do people tell them how hard their job is and how appreciated it is and how much good work they're doing.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: So I think this is great.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and, and I had, I had written down because it's one of my favorite quotes and my husband and I went to go see this movie in the in the movie theater one time.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: It's double indemnity from like 1940.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Barton Keyes is the claims manager in this particular movie and he taught, he has this whole monologue about how, what a claims person is and of course, since this is the 1940s, it's all men.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: But he goes like a claims man is a doctor and a bloodhound and a cop and a judge and a jury and a father confessor all in one.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm like that is exactly what we are, because if I had to define what an adjuster really is, I would say it's like a modern Renaissance person.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I mean like you have to know a little bit of everything, like how a car is made, how to repair on that, physics, chemistry, bodily injury, you know all of those kinds of things to be able to adjust the claim, let alone legal, of how to read the policy and all of that kind of fun stuff.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember when I my first day probably around the first week of being an adjuster, when I first started, and they put you in that training and my mind just being blown of like all of this, I have to know all of this, I have to understand HICFA codes and UBs and the medical terminology overwhelming to think of yes, you're going to, you're going to, you'll get there, but you'll have you have to be an expert in all of these different things because it is a little bit of, a little bit like a jack of all trades type of job which is and I think that's one of the reasons why I like.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: One of the reasons why I like it is you're always learning new things, but it can.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: It can be very overwhelming for folks if they don't have that proper training if they don't have that proper training, if they don't have that support Absolutely.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And and I actually think it's kind of funny in a in a sad type of way, because what Keyes does in double indemnities, he's trying to offer Walter Neff to move over to the claims department, because Neff is an agent right now, but nef would have to take a 50 pay cut and and I'm like, oh see, this is what's wrong with insurance right now, you know, is because we've got to know all of these things and you're offering your adjusters like 50 less a week or a year or whatever.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: He didn't say which which was but I mean you got to take a pay cut to become an adjuster.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let me sign up for that job.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I totally want to do that and get yelled at for eight hours a day.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and just in general, right, it's tough to make those transitions in insurance because there's not, you know, maybe some organizations do it better than others, but there's not a lot of great opportunities for that cross training.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: So if you have someone who says, oh, I want to learn and I want to, you know, try this for a while, you do and, like a lot of my career, moves have been lateral just because I wanted to learn and there wasn't an opportunity to learn where I was, because usually you're tied to a specific line of business or specific clients and they're not really incentivized as a company to let you move because they want to keep a client happy.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: So it makes it really tough for that mobility.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I agree and I think it points to and they're doing is and I do recommend this quite often is to change your book of business or the type of claims that you are offering or working, maybe every not year, year and a half, two years, something like that, because you get to see a pattern recognition kind of deal.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: You know, because just because you see something like that, because you get to see a pattern recognition kind of deal, you know because just because you see something like you only work auto claims, you will start seeing something similar in property damage, like homeowners or something like that.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the adjuster superpowers is to be able to like step back and be able to see like I don't know those codes in the matrix kind of deal where we can go wait a minute, I've seen this before.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: This, this is, this is this is what's going to happen here and you can kind of get ahead of it.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: And it's especially useful if you get a lot of that kind of different I don't know experience like ones in even if you did auto just property damage and liability you it's, you're dealing with people and you learn those skills of you know being able to investigate without making it feel like you're accused, like it's not an interrogation, right?
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Being able to get information from people, being able to, like, build that trust, being able to tell is someone being forthright with me.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: I can tell if somebody is lying to me, like that skill set transfers over across all lines and comes in handy in everyday life, just in terms of your regular relationships.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: So it is something that I think a lot you learn by doing it on the job, but I'd love to see more mobility to different lines because, you're right, that's the sort of the soft skills.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, really carry over.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Skills, really do carry over.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And I think and you are absolutely right, because I don't think that the companies will do this for you I did something similar when I was working at Liberty Mutual.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I wanted to gain some more experience and I wanted to move up in the in in the company and I knew for me to do that, the best way for me to do that would be like a change in a department.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So I was already doing semi tractor, trailer rigs, general liability, you know, accidents, and then an opening came up with special investigation units and so I applied and I got that job and I became a special investigation investigator and that was like absolutely invaluable learning those soft skills, learning how to look at people, how to ask the right questions and things of that nature.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: So it's don't expect.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's different now because I think people, companies used to want to invest in their, in their people, and I'm not saying that they don't now, but I think that it's you have to do more of that, investing yourself.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: You have to look out more for yourself.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I had a similar experience too.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I had done work comp for like a decade and I thought I want to learn other lines, I want to do something besides this.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: And the response, like I, was well, you know, you're tied to these clients and what are we going to say to them?
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: How are we going to say that you're, you're pulling back on on their account to do other things?
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: So so I ended up leaving because I wanted that opportunity and I knew it wasn't, I wasn't going to get it there, and I went to go handle on a health plan side, a subroutine, because then you got to deal with not just the work comp, but you're all the all third party liability, medical malpractice, mass tort and all the stuff that I normally would never be able to be exposed to If I stayed in the same department just doing work comp.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: But again, I think that one was a little bit of a pay cut I took Because I thought this is the only way I'm going to get this opportunity to grow, and it's unfortunate it shouldn't be that way.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It should not.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, I totally agree with you, it shouldn't be that way.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: But you know, and if and if the the employer is talking to you like, oh, what are we going to do with our clients?
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: They like you so much.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: You know what that sounds like.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: A personal problem, right, you know, this is.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: This is not my problem.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Honestly, guys, as an adjuster, you are a valued member and and so what they should be doing is recognizing that and building you up and then bringing people behind you and spreading the love with the clients so that you can move on.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: And think about it.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: This way, you're even helping those clients if you're recognizing that, hey, you know this particular loss happens all the time.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Or you know whatever being able to pick up the phone and actually talk with people, or something like that.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: There's something that I call like code switching, where you have to know how to a speak insurance ease and legal ease, and then and then construction ease, you know, and auto repair ease, or whatever, and then being able to translate that into just plain English, and when you're talking to your insurance.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I will give you an excellent example.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I was in the hospital recently and the doctor came in and said yes, we think you have a possible pulmonary edema and I'm like, okay, pulmonary lungs edema, is that the?
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Is that the Bruce?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: That what's the, what's the, what's the edema, you know?
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: And she goes fluid on the lungs and I'm like, you know, if you would have just come in and said I think you have fluid on the lungs, which is known as pulmonary edema in medical terminology.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: See, that's the difference and that's one of our superpowers that that adjusters have to have.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: So we got to know how to talk to people.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the communication right, and it takes a long time to learn how to translate that in a way that makes sense to people.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the communication right, and it takes a long time to learn how to translate that in a way that makes sense to people and nobody really teaches that.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: It's something that you kind of learn on the job, like what connects with people, and because, unfortunately, a lot of the communication that we send out, a lot of the letters, the language is mandatory right so.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Department of Insurance, department of Labor, somebody says here's the exact chunk of text.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: You have to slap on a letter and send out, and then the you know the policy holder, the claimant, gets it and they're like, the first thing they do is they call the adjuster.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: What does this mean?
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: It's three pages of legalese.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: What does this mean?
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: And then the adjuster has to say, okay, well, I'm going to explain this to you in a way that makes sense.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: When I worked at a health plan, one of the things that I saw, certain states, maryland in particular.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know if other ones do this, but Maryland had a requirement for Medicaid patients If you are going to send out communications, it couldn't be written at higher than sixth grade reading level comprehension.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: I thought that is a brilliant way to say you can communicate it, but make sure it's in a way that's accessible and makes sense for more people.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: And so they actually had.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: And I can't I'm not even sure how they did it, but it would have to go to an apartment to look at it and say, nope, send it back, it's still.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: You have to change this and change this.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: And I thought why can't we do that for all insurance?
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Because you want people to be able to get those documents and make sense of it.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely Okay.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: So the FLASH reading score.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: If y'all don't know what that is, it's not really important, it's the thing that you can pump into the internet and it tells you.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: It's a score based on what words you use, how many syllables there are blah, blah, blah words you use, how many syllables there are blah, blah, blah, and it tells you what reading level this particular item is a book, anything, anything you want, you know, and some states do have that for their policies, and I mentioned this when I talk to my students.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I think in Texas, the policy has to be college level, and in Colorado, I believe it has to be like 12th grade level, right, and I'm like, okay, so let's think about this.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: We're all, we're in junior college or, or, you know, community college, whatever.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I'm teaching you how to read this homeowner's policy, which is presumably the easier one of all of the policies to read.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: How many of you understood the first sentence that I've read to you?
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: That's supposed to and, and presumably all of you have graduated from 12th grade and and how's that working out for y'all?
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Um and it and it doesn't Um, and I think, again, like I said, one of the things that we have to talk about and and I think this is going to be one of your topics that I'm really super excited about that we're going to be talking about next week or in two weeks or something like.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: That is like how to have those tough conversations is we're going to give some like really concrete things, like when you go over the policy, like first of all, make that appointment with the insured and say I'm going to need like 15 to 30 minutes of your time, like don't rush this.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Don't don't rush this, because I guarantee you, if you sit down and explain and I know it sounds like you're going like I've got so much to do.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I can't do it in 30 minutes.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I can't spend 30 minutes doing this.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you, if you spend 30 minutes on the front end, it will save you a complaints out the wazoo and then be so many emails and follow up phone calls and all of that kind of stuff.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I, you know it's funny because it's almost like you have to schedule this time out, for I'm going to tell the claimant this information but I know I'm going to have to repeat it in a week because they're only going to retain like a little piece of it.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: Right is how they pack everything into the time they have, because there's the communication really takes the longest, the longest.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: It is the most time intensive and it's not necessarily measurable in the claim outside of the trust that you build with the claimant, right.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: So you're taking that time to speak to them because sometimes they just want to call you and run through scenarios and what if this happens?
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: And it doesn't?
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: It's not a metric really.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: That's measurable in the same way as all the other metrics that adjust all your coding and all your diaries and all of that stuff that gets measured that you guys still got to fit into the day.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: But there's no way to measure that.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: But how do your claimants feel about the process?
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Like, did you take the time to communicate with them?
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: So, unfortunately, adjusters do the work that's measured, because that's maybe what their pay is tied to, their performance is tied to and the communication isn't.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: So people wonder, like, why do people have like a lousy claims experience?
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Because you're training your adjusters to check all the boxes, right, because that's what matters, instead of taking the time to spend with the claimant or with the policyholder.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And that's just another way that we're just being all ass backwards about the whole insurance industry.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I told my adjusters first contact should at least take 15 to 20 minutes, at least at the very bare minimum, because what you're doing is you're going over the policy, at least at the very bare minimum.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Because what you're doing is you're going over the policy, you're going over what the next steps are.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: You know, don't expect to hear from me and for, like, I don't know, seven to 10 business days because I'm going to send out someone.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: They're going to go look at it.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: They got a report back to me.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I got to look at the report.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: You know, look at the policy again and then determine what to do.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking, you know, 10 to 15 business days and giving them that information helps set those expectations which again your superpower, you control this.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: You know, don't let that be your kryptonite, where they're calling you tomorrow going like, uh, the guy came out, how much are you going to pay me for?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I don't even have his stuff yet, I didn't even know he was out there.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: You know, um, and then when you get the estimate and the report, I told the my guys I'm like again, you need to pick up the phone or send an email, or send a text or whatever.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I need to talk to you for another 15 minutes.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Grab a piece of paper and a pencil.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: We're going to go over some math, you know.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: And then you have to re-explain RCV and ACV, which is what you already did that first contact.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: It's just like what you said.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: You just have to keep going over and over and over and over and over again, you know.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: And I would always tell when I used to do training.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: I would always tell adjusters the worst thing you can say is uh, I'm gonna do this and then I'll get back to you.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: What does that?
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: like in their mind that me that could mean like end of day.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: That could mean like, oh, you know, sandy's gonna get back to me, like she said she'd get back to me, when really you're.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I have to subpoena these records.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: I have to, like I have to contact these other people.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: It's really going to take you a week.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: You got to set the expectation because in their mind they have no.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: They have no frame of reference.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: No.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: So they have no idea what you have to do or that, but and then but.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Then on on some other level, they don't.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You know, um, because you're sitting there going, but you know this is my most important thing and um, and that's why I do also tell my adjusters if anybody is a star trek fan, you'll know what I'm talking about.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: It's called like the Scotty or the Geordie method of timing and you know it's going to take like I don't know, five business days.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Never tell them five business days.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Add 20 percent to that.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: You know I'm giving her.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: She's got, captain, I can't give her any more.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, look, I did it in three days.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: You know it's like whoo and it's that over promise, under deliver, wait, wait, did I do that right?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the other way around.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I can't do any more, captain, I just can't take it.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you know what I mean, but that you got to do that.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And if someone is upset and I've said this on this podcast more than once if someone is upset and you say, let me do some research and give you a call back, you need to tell them when I will give you a call back, before 4.30 central time today.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And then, for goodness sakes, all that is holy, write it down on your calendar, because the minute you miss that, you have lost all credibility and you have proven them right that you do not care.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: You know, just like Sandy and I do not care that we are both wearing the same shirt today.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: We just, we don don't.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: We called one another beforehand and we were like let's do this.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: We had a discussion about who should change, and then we said you know what?
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Let's just I'm not changing, you change.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: This is a theme.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: We're doing black and white because we're both good and bad, yeah, oh.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And if you're only listening to the thing, you need to go watch Spotify or YouTube, because you're just missing everything.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: See, I was wearing this shirt.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm going to look all cute today and everything.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I'm like woo, yeah, great minds think alike, it is yeah, and for all future episodes we will all call before and coordinate our outfits Exactly.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we need to do, you know.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you this, sandy, because you you also have the added benefit that I don't have of being like in the risk management and the, you know, agency side of things.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: So, having had the insight of being like both the adjuster and and being on the risk management side, what would you, how do you handle, like first notice and all of these emotions that are going on?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: You know, how do you help the adjusters walk through this?
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: How do you help the, the, the insureds, walk through this?
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Any, any kind of advice, or just tell us how wonderful we are basically.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I think the and I think this is really where you know if you are, if you're out there and you're an employer or a client using a TPA, using adjusters, whoever you're using to understand what their role is, because I think that's really what kind of helps me when I work with my adjusters.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: My adjusters are there to adjudicate the claim in accordance with the policy and the law.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: They're not there just to make your job easier, and I think that is the challenges.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: You have the service sold as like oh, we're gonna, we're gonna make your job easier, and then you have, uh, like for me, it's on the employer side, you think, well, why can't the adjuster do this too?
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Why can't they handle this too?
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Why can't they do this for me?
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: It's like well, that's not their role, that's not what they're there to do.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: They're there to handle the claim and a lot of it is really you know the policy, some of the policy holders on the commercial side wanting to outsource hard conversations.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: So they're like well, can't the adjuster tell them that?
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Can't the adjuster Like no, this is you still have that's still your employee, you still have a relationship with that employee.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: You have to have those conversations.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: So I think it's it's really making sure you know anybody who is a potential client understands that piece of it that the adjuster is there to adjudicate the claim, like that's what they're there to do.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: They're not there.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: It's not like value added service to make your job easy for you to offload tasks, for you to say, call them and tell them you know their FMLA is sending that's.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: You know that's not what their role is and I think that's that's.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: The hard part is people and I just wrote a blog about this a week ago People purchase insurance without understanding what they're purchasing.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: So they, they get it and they're like well, what am I, what am I paying for?
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Then I was like well, that's not what you're, that's not what you're paying for.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: The adjuster, um, as as much superpowers as the adjuster has.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: We are not your emotional comfort dog and we can.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: We could offer you a shoulder to cry on.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, gosh knows I've listened to the insurance cry, you know before and everything.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: But yeah, we are not the emotional comfort puppy here, you know and I think it's tough because the adjuster is also usually like the in-between person between claimant and policyholder and has to speak to both and explain to both, and they both want to, you know, voice their frustration to the adjuster.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: And it's just that if there's better understanding of the role of what the adjusters actually do, that would help.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: And and I tried to do that as much as I can to explain you know, here's what the adjusters will is, here's what they do.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: But I think, because insurance is often sold, as you know, it's a service.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: So think like service means, uh, I should get what I want in order to be happy, like I'm unhappy with this, with this customer service experience, and that's not exactly like insurance.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: There's more nuance and detail than that, and so that's, and then you know.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: And then it's not great for the adjuster, because the adjuster gets frustrated with these additional things that are handed to them that they're expected to do.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: So so I try to communicate that as much as I can, but you know, I have a tiny, tiny little piece of the insurance world and there's a lot of, there's a lot of policyholders and potential clients out there who need that message as well.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I don't have anything more than that.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think I think that's true and I don't think I have ever really, as an adjuster myself, said no, this is my role, this is all I do.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Because it is kind of awkward when the insured is coming up and like you know all that old woman on the Incredibles like I'm on a fixed income, what can I do?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this kind of stuff.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Like I'm on a fixed income, what can I do?
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this kind of stuff.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: You, as the adjuster, are like well, I, you know.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I don't I?
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: You know and I think that also goes to some of these, these hard conversations that that that we will be talking about, um, you know where, if you're getting cursed at, that's a lot easier because then you can just ask people to speak to you in a more professional tone.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I know that when I have had some, some people cry uh, I have gotten their agent involved Um, and I'm not opposed to using and I think again, you know superheroes, we all have our super leagues, you know the Marvel universe or the Avengers or Titans or whatever.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: You know, we all have our, our friends who can help us out.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And so that's when we do call on the agent and say, hey, you know, can you help me out with this?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: So-and-so doesn't seem to understand or know that I'm going to have a particularly hard conversation.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: For example I'll give you a great example I always tell my adjusters I'm like think about your grandmother, you know, is this the way you want your grandmother treated?
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: And I happen to have had a claim before where it was grandma, basically, and smart and smart, very smart, very savvy.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: But we're talking about an insurance claim.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: That was kind of complex and I knew it was going to be complex and I knew that she was not, because I had already been prepping her this whole entire time over what would and would not be covered that I was going to have to have a really hard conversation with her, that she might not get it.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And it's even harder to explain over the telephone.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you know when you can't point to things necessarily and, and so in that particular instance that's when I would get like do you have your child, your son or daughter who can sit on the phone with you?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And because sometimes four ears are better than two, or can you get your agent on the phone?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Because maybe you can go to their office and they can pull things up and show you as we go along, and grabbing those other people to help you out and explain things can make your job easier, I believe.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so too.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I think it's really that that partnership really helps, so that they're hearing from more than one person, because sometimes you know, especially when you're trying to establish trust and unfortunately insurance does not have the best reputation with the public, so they think like, oh, the adjuster, just you know, they just don't want to pay on my claim, they're just trying to pay as little as possible.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: So it's helpful to bring in other people to help you deliver this message of.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: This is what the policy covers right here, right, so that they understand you're not trying to cheat anybody.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: Um, because it's just what?
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: like I'll, I'll lurk on reddit, uh, on workers comp and insurance and claims, just to read the stories and and the things that people post they make these Just to read the stories, yeah just to read the stories and the things people post, that, the assumptions they make where they think like, yeah, the adjuster gets a bonus if they pay under the policy, like I've never seen that money we don't get.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: You know, nobody's paid extra money for shorting a policy holder, for doing something unethical, but those assumptions are out there and again, because there's just not a great effort in the industry to educate people and say here's how this works.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: The adjusters don't benefit from deceiving anybody.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: There's actually like bad faith claims handling practices and the things that you can get dinged for for that stuff.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: So oh yeah, that, by the way, comes up more often than not and I am so sick of of responding to it the fact that adjusters low ball so that they can get, um you know, a bonus and everything.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Here is the deal for whoever is listening Adjusters do not get bonuses if they quote, unquote, low ball or offer beneath settlement levels or whatever you happen to think it is.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: We don't get that money.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: That money does not go into the adjuster's pocket.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So, for example, if we say that the value of this claim is $500 to $1,000, let's say, you know, and we settle for $700, we do not, as the adjuster, get $300 because we quote, unquote, saved the insurer and its company $300.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: We don't get that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: No, what that?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Any kind of bonus that the adjusters get is based off of the entire year, off of all of the claims, as opposed to public adjusters and plaintiff attorneys who do receive payment from one particular claim.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: That's the difference there, and I am so sorry to get up on my high horse, but I have had to answer this question so many times in expert witnesses reports because it gets brought up over and, over and over again.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: It is a myth.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: It is a.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: It's a prevalent myth it needs to die.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah it just needs to die, because the only people who are getting paid off of one claim are the plaintiff attorneys and the public adjusters.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely, their compensation is tied.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: It's tied to it.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: It's a percentage, so anybody has a goal in any kind of claim settlement.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: It's going to be the plaintiff attorney and the public adjusters.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think there's just, and again, it has to do with the trust in the industry.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, and because of the trust in the industry, even if you, I feel like, because, trust me, I've had these conversations with family members as someone whose insurance you know you go to Thanksgiving dinner, you get to hear everybody complain about everything, like how much I'm paying and this claim and what happened, and no matter how much I try to explain, it's so hard to to get people to understand that's not what's happening, right, they want to believe like no, it's, it's like someone's out to get me and it's it's.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: I just think we have we industry, not you and me we're doing great think we have, we industry not you and me.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: We're doing great, we're fantastic, we're great, but you know, we, industry, just have so much work to do in terms of the education and spreading that awareness and, and you know those, those stories of everything that we're doing, right, those aren't told.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: No, I will tell you something.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I we're getting ready to study marketing in my risk management and insurance class and one of the students I just want to, I just wanted to like take her, kiss her on the lips right there, because she, she finally said something that I have been hoping for the past three years one of the students would catch on to, because I give them like four or five advertisements from all of the big guys, you know, and I'm like, look at these advertisements.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: What do they all have in common?
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: What are they talking about?
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: You know, blah, blah, blah.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: What do you think about this?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: What kind of problems would this advertisement cause for all of the other departments in the insurance company?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: And she said I find it interesting, having watched all of these commercials back to back, that none of them talk about what's excluded.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, I love you.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my oh, boom.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yes, we can still talk about what's excluded to our clients, so that, as the all knowledgeable, all knowing Bill Wilson says, it's not a commodity, we can still talk about that and sell insurance.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: We can, you know, and I have always maintained that anyway.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: But you know, it leaves it to us, as the claims department using our superpowers and our training and our conversations and our ability to talk to someone when they go.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: My agent told me everything was covered.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I have an all risk policy and so, like now, we've got to get into going through this constant training of like getting our I don't know CPCUs and our AICs and our continuing education for our licenses and and and these sorts of things um of of how to be better and and how to, how to shortcut things while we're still not shortcutting.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And when I say shortcut I don't mean taking shortcuts, I mean operating quicker and faster and everything.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I mean operating quicker and faster and everything.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: For example, taking 15 minutes out of your the first part of your day to talk to that claimant first or third party, so that you don't get 15 emails and voicemails that you have to return.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I think that you know, I and I think if we talk about exclusions, you potentially end up selling more insurance, because then you say, hey, by the way, there's a gap, and you make a policy for this gap agree I and you and I have talked about this before that I think you and I could do a 30 second insurance commercial that honestly educates the consumer and and make it funny Not say 15% or more if you go with the flow and because you're in good hands, because we've seen things and you've got great neighbors, you know not that kind of stuff Because I think that if we treated our clients like adults, you know, they would probably appreciate that, like, look, everything is not going to be covered, it's just not.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: This is not the way insurance works.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: However, if you want to spend a little extra money, you could get an exclusion.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: If you don't, you're going to pay for that out of your pocket.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Which one do you want?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: This is your choice.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Do you want red pill or blue pill?
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's kind of the way that it goes.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this will be an ongoing theme, I think right.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: So for every, every podcast, insurance CEOs hire us.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I can't, I don't know who to talk to about this, but I mean I swear, hire, hire Sandy.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: I mean we, we can do this for you.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: We can do this have you seen our Star Wars episodes where we're teaching people about, you know, exclusions and stuff?
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: We got it.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: We got it locked down.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Man, we could do that in 30 seconds.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: I mean ours was a little long, but we were having fun.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: And you want an educated policyholder.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Oh God, yes, you want an educated policyholder.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: It's better for the claims process.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: They're going to have fewer losses because they're going to understand how the losses impact them.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: They're likely to buy more coverage because they'll understand what needs to be covered.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: You want educated policy holders.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: And you want your educated policy holders because, a they're going to be happier with the claims process because they're going to know what's going on.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: But B here's the deal.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Here's when you go hey, I understand what's going on, I like XYZ company.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: When someone goes, hey, what insurance company are you using?
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Look, I like ABC company.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: They cost more, but I'm going to tell you why I pay that way.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I pay it because I get really good coverage, and I know I get good coverage because they sat down and explained it to me.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And then I and and I know what my gaps are.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: So I know that I've put X amount of money in the bank so that you know that's not going to be covered.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: You know, like, the burst pipe isn't going to be covered, but ensuing loss is.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: So I know that I will need to pay for that burst pipe.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Fine, you know.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: But I understand that now, and that kind of word of mouth is going to get you more return on equity than anything else, and I feel like we've kind of strayed from our superheroes.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: But this is kind of like our superhero thing, isn't it?
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Because adjusters know this and it's so amazing to me why, like what Neff was doing and Keys was doing?
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Why are we offering our adjusters less money when actually, if you think about it, the adjusters are the face of the insurance company, because the whole reason you buy insurance is to pay covered claims and that's when people are going to interact with the insurance company.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Because you can buy you could buy insurance online and never talk to a person.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Right, and I think that's been a whole.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: You know, when you started to see more complete removal of brokers and agents of like, oh, let's just do this, do this on your phone, and I just thought but they don't.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: They already struggle to understand what they're buying.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Why would you remove the one person who can have some conversations with them, for them to understand and ask questions about the policy?
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: But you're right, the adjusters have the stories and I think the stories sell the coverage.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: The stories are the ones that can say here's what this experience is like If, as a policyholder, you're careful to avoid losses.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: Here's what we cover and what we don't, and that's what should be used for marketing.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: So, like, on top of all the superpowers adjusters have, that's your for a carrier, this is your superpower yes, we bring in the adjusters, yes, we market, and, and, and we're the ones who, who help, and so you've got to, you've got to to pay us more and get us more.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, so we're probably never now that we've solved all the world's problems in insurance.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Do you have a?
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Do you have a superpower?
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Do you think yourself, do you have a superpower?
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: I think my ability to probably the storytelling piece.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: I think that's what I do a lot in my content, something by analogy.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: Let me make a skit that explains this concept in a way that makes you laugh and because you laughed you'll remember.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: And that's the whole goal.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Is you remember?
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Do you remember now to check for your exclusions?
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: Do you remember to check for conditions, to look at your definitions?
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: How are these things defined in your policy?
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: So that's like the goal is to try to bury a little lesson in there and hopefully they remember, because they found something as funny.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I would like to encourage our listeners if they have a superpower, to let us know.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Drop it in the comments below and all of that kind of stuff.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Do not barbecue near the house.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: That's, that's bad.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no barbecuing near the house.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Also, your homeowner's policy isn't going to cover damage if fireworks are illegal in your area and you're illegally using fireworks and your house catches on fire.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: So PSA.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, awkward, yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: So we're going to be back on the 17th and this is where we're.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I guess we're going to kind of have like a continuation of this kind of conversation where we talk about and this was actually your idea and I and I I'm really looking forward to it about how to have these tough conversations.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: And I had written down and we've talked about this before, bill and I have but I wrote down some some things like okay, this is what we need to say here and this is what we need to say here.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: So I think it'll be a little bit more concrete, hopefully, and I think it'll be a really good session.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to it.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am too.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: It'll be a really good session.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to it.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I am too.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: It'll be great, and hopefully our shirts will be matching again.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, I hope so.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to wear gray.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: No, I'm going to wear red or blue, we'll talk.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: We'll talk.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, have a great weekend, take care Bye, thanks for joining us on the Art of Adjusting podcast, where we talk about life as an insurance adjuster.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this podcast or this episode, please give us five stars and a review.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: It does help the algorithm pick us up.
• 43:11
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• 43:14
  Speaker 1: For independent adjusting services, go to wwwautinclaims, and for anyone interested in working as an independent liability adjuster, go to the contact us tab to join our roster.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: In the meantime, you can contact me at theartofadjustingcom for consulting and training purposes.