Latest / Clean Water Conversations / Episode 15 with Jill Whitcomb

Transcript

Episode 15 with Jill Whitcomb · Clean Water Conversations

0:11
SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Clean Water Conversations, the podcast where we have casual discussions about creating clean and clear waterways right here in Lancaster County.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm Ken.
0:21
SPEAKER_03: Hey everybody, this is Allison.
0:22
SPEAKER_03: Allison.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Happy Halloween.
0:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's time for spooks and ghouls and trick-or-treating.
0:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeehaw!
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I love Halloween.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Um when you went trick-or-treating when you were a kid, what was your favorite candy to get?
0:37
SPEAKER_03: Oh, it was a debate, internally debating, between Reese's peanut butter cups and peanut MMs.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: Thankfully I never had a peanut allergy.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: I did have a chocolate allergy growing up.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Which does not jive well with the two candies you just mentioned.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Those things were post-12 years old.
0:55
SPEAKER_03: Apparently the allergy went away.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you can.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I I'm also at a tie between Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and Kit Katz.
1:06
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
1:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07
SPEAKER_03: And now, do you still go for those?
1:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I sure do.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Not much has changed.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: I I I go to the store and buy them rather than you know knocking on someone's door because that would just be weird.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: At this point, yes.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of awesomeness.
1:23
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of things going on.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: In addition to chocolate.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, we've we've had a lot of of events recently.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: You presented at a couple of them.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: A couple lately.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: We had a really exciting one at the Watershed Forum.
1:37
SPEAKER_03: So the annual event for the Chesapeake Bay groups to come together that's hosted by the Alliance for the Chesapeake Bay at the National Conservation Training Center, which is just a beautiful place at this time of year.
1:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: So grateful to be a part of that and got to talk about the stream delisting strategy.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: And then we had MS Forum, which is not an acronym.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: It's the name of the event.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Buzz you.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't buzz me on that one.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: You already buzz me on on what that one derives from already.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: So there's your challenge listeners.
2:10
SPEAKER_03: Go back and find that episode.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: That was that was on uh October 21st.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: The event was great.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: And full partners meeting was just a couple days ago.
2:23
SPEAKER_03: On the 29th, we all had breakfast together.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
2:25
SPEAKER_03: On the shores of the Conestoga River.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Fun stuff there.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Lots of good stuff.
2:29
SPEAKER_03: Well, and it's such a great time to get all of our local partner organizations together.
2:34
SPEAKER_03: We only do it twice a year.
2:35
SPEAKER_03: You know, as you said, there's so many other events happening right now with funding, connect and preps, and CAP applications, the countywide action plan.
2:43
SPEAKER_03: That's what it is.
2:45
SPEAKER_03: Our CAP coordinator team members, along with Land Studies, the Lancashire Farmland Trust, and David Miller Associates.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: So pulling all of those applications together to send in to the Department of Environmental Protection, it's a great place that we get to be the leader with the local decision making.
3:02
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, deadlines, deadlines, those are going in today.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And you have something going on presenting tomorrow.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: Right.
3:11
SPEAKER_03: The Hourglass Foundation has a monthly lunch session.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: And tomorrow, Clean Water in Lancaster County is the focus area.
3:21
SPEAKER_03: So really great to be with that audience as well.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's November 1st, just in case you don't know what tomorrow is.
3:26
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I know what tomorrow is, but I don't usually, but you know.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: So we have a really cool episode with a really fun guest.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: It's Jill Whitcomb from the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to catch me in that acronym either.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And it and it's a fun, it's a fun discussion.
3:46
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Let's hit it.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: So you have a story.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm very curious then.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Tell us about your background.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, where'd you grow up?
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: So I grew up in Edders, Pennsylvania.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: And uh fun fact about Edders is it's not really a town.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: It was actually based on the name Eders is a post office in Goldsboro.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: So we always kind of joke that, like, oh, we grew up in a zip code.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Like so, like the name just stuck.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: So the it's a post office in Goldsboro, historic, like back in the you know, 1800s or nine early 1900s, and the name just stuck.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, so the post office took that name on because it of that local piece?
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, the post office was actually so this is kind of the local story, is that uh there was a post office in like a tavern and it was named Eddards.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: It was named after a a person.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: And so they put a post office there so that people could could mail, you know, from from the tavern.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why we're that's why it's called Eddards.
4:56
unknown: Okay.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: So named after a bar, far enough.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I like it.
5:01
unknown: Mm-hmm.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: So along that same vein, what drew you to conservation then?
5:07
SPEAKER_01: So uh where I grew up, I had a stream in my backyard.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: And so my friends and I would play in it, you know, we would just always go out and play.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: And I'd also walk my dog.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: We had dirt roads along where we lived too, and we'd go by, you know, crop fields and farms.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: There were some guinea hens that lived in this, in this area too.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: So it was just kind of like a fun thing to be outside all the time.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and my dad's family were Mennonites too.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, he wasn't, but his family was.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: And they came from Lancaster and Lebanon.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: And um, so he would tell my brother and I stories about growing up farming and being outside.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: I always enjoyed nature and and animals and plants.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:53
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's awesome.
5:54
SPEAKER_03: Did it take you to a specific education?
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kind of.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: Oddly enough, I was better at other subjects than I was at science, but I liked it more.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: It's more interesting.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, I'll just go for biology.
6:11
SPEAKER_03: General and thinking that.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: And then being like, oh wait, I actually am no good at chemistry.
6:16
SPEAKER_03: So let's look at ecosystems, right?
6:19
SPEAKER_01: How things work together.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you know what?
6:22
SPEAKER_01: I like plants because they don't really talk so much.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Is that what kept you then in biology?
6:32
SPEAKER_03: Like you your background in farms and animal interest.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: And like I didn't know that there were agricultural classes or courses anywhere.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: So I I remember thinking, I was like, well, I'll have a wide swath of options if I go for biology and see what I like.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, ecology, ecosystem sciences.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: That's like that was a thing.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: Same thing.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I do not fit this pre-med thing.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: So can't you picture me in pre-med?
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: I'll be your doctor.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: Hey, before we go any further, let's get to know you a little bit better.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Slightly different way by doing an icebreaker.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: So your icebreaker question is what fictional family in a book or a movie or a TV show would you want to be a member of?
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And why?
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: The gears are turning.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: She's got this look of joy on her face.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: I have to say the Simpsons.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: That would certainly be a fictional family.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: And why they always seem to like come back together.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, like they might be going off in the all different ways.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Lisa's the intellectual and and Bart isn't.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: And you know, Marge always tries really hard, and Homer actually does too.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: You know?
8:04
SPEAKER_01: But like you know that they love each other.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Like they care about each other, even if it's somewhat in an odd way.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: And also the the Halloween they're all love it.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: And they never age.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the best part right there.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: And Marge has blue hair.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, how can you be?
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Very tall.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: How can you beat that?
8:30
SPEAKER_00: So, two questions.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Would you be one of the existing characters or would you beat Jill?
8:35
SPEAKER_00: And would you have blue hair?
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, I would probably be Marge because I really liked her Chanel outfit.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: That's so good reasons.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: I want Marge's Chanel outfit.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: So getting back to the the real conversation here.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Not that that wasn't a real part of the conversation, mind you.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: But uh so at one point you worked at the Langster County Conservation District.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Welcome home.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: You're back in your back in your home building.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Tell us about that time, what what you did and how it launched you into where you are now.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Fun story.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: It took me three attempts at getting a job here.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: Three separate times of interviewing for three separate.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, I didn't even interview the first two times.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: I just applied.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh my.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh well.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: So I think I think I might have interviewed twice and applied three times.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it took me three times of getting a job here.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: So I always like to say that.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: It does, yeah.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Motivated to me.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: I knew what I wanted.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: But after interviewing for that third time, the district manager at the time, he contacted me and said that the job changed slightly from what I had applied for, which was the ag tech or nutrient management technician, to include grants coordination.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: So I was, I think, the first grants coordinator for the conservation district.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: And I was hired uh early in 2010.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: And my job was to focus on reporting for the ag the agriculture grants because the watershed specialists they had their stuff covered.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was more like for the agriculture program.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: So the things that we would go for for DEP, um National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: So we were sorry.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: No.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: So close.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: I we even spelled out National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: I was very so proud of myself for that one.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: So DEP stands for Department of Environmental Protection.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: That that actually hurt me to press the button, but it really did.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Darn it.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, my my job is to help to um to report for those, for those grants and to also apply for them.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: So putting together the applications.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: And I had the phase one and phase two Chesapeake Bay watershed implementation plans on my desk that I would cite in my applications.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: So like I had to get to know these plans so that I could say, well, it's in this plan.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: This is what we're going to be doing, and this is how we're going to be doing it.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: I also, part of my job was to help facilitate, take note, set agendas for the newly formed Conservation Foundation of Lancaster County and the Lancaster Clean Water Consortium.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when they would have meetings and things like that, I kind of served as their secretary for that.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: I administered PENVEST Funds.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: So that's the Pennsylvania Infrastructure Investment Authority.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Um not an acronym.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Not an acronym, an abbreviation.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Abbreviation.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Um and the conservation district sponsored a lot of agriculture projects on behalf of consultants and landowners.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: So that was also part of my job.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: And then I would report to the board of directors.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: And so with that, I learned the ropes in agriculture, conservation, and obtained my nutrient management specialist certification too.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: So just spending a lot of time observing, learning from other peers and colleagues, how to sell conservation, how to read the room when you're talking to farmers.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't grow up on a farm, but there's a certain way of talking to folks about things and about conservation.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And so that was that was kind of what launched me into my career.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: And just being able to work with other people, I think really helped expand my horizons and let me see how much people can do when they work together.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Like if you guys work together with other partners and building.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: So I might have, I might have started in that role, but clearly it's got it's like ballooned and it's blossomed so significantly with the foundation and the clean water partners.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: It's it's fantastic to see how it how it's grown.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Under your leadership.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: Well, and likewise for you, your work has now taken you much farther than Lancaster County, all over the state.
13:31
SPEAKER_03: What are some of the things that you have seen where Lancaster has inspired good work?
13:36
SPEAKER_03: Like you gave some examples of what the district and the foundation have done.
13:40
SPEAKER_03: Are there places you've seen that elsewhere where Lancaster has inspired good work?
13:45
SPEAKER_03: Or are there places that we should be learning more from?
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, I can tell you that not only within Pennsylvania, but across our state borders, Lancaster has really spurred a lot of interest and enthusiasm.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Just the fact, the way that the partnership has pulled together a collaborative group of like-minded people, setting them on a strategic path, setting that that vision, the common goal.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Really, I think people are so used to working in their own silos and saying, oh, well, we work with partners, but working with someone and and actually collaborating and not being in competition is is really just, I think that's what's elevated the clean water partners so significantly.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: And people see how that how that works and they they want to do that in their area too.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: So I have seen a lot of lessons learned.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Things that you all have done here that people are able to take in other places and and apply to what kind of serves their their communities the best.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
14:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we have some amazing stories of that locally, but to know that the ripple effects are being felt elsewhere.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: It just continues to tell that impact story.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
15:09
SPEAKER_03: Documenting those pieces.
15:10
SPEAKER_03: I love the podcast to be able to do that.
15:13
SPEAKER_03: Be able to showcase individual projects, but also then whole initiatives like what you guys have done from the state perspective, and knowing that our work here is a part of that.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: It it's really well seeing what you all have done here has been very inspiring and has really, I think, again, elevated Pennsylvania's efforts toward the Chesapeake Bay, but also locally.
15:39
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: So kind of under under that same vein, the the Countywide Action Plan is a product under is under your team's leadership.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Project project.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, it is a product.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: That is true.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is true.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Fair fair point.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh tell us about the initial goals of that process and how you would characterize it in terms of the collaboration we were just talking about.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: So I can tell you that we had a vision that was always the target, right?
16:10
SPEAKER_01: It's sometimes you have to set a target and be very focused on that, right?
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Um and the target was to ensure buy-in at the local level.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: That was it.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: That was so how do we do that?
16:28
SPEAKER_01: And at first in some areas, it was a bit of a hard sell.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: Asking people to trust the process, trust the people leading the process, trust that if we worked together, we would get to where we wanted to be.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, that was a lot to ask of people.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: And our team knew that we had to follow up and follow through.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: It's not one it's one thing to say, well, we're committed to providing you support.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: It's another thing to actually follow through with that for sure.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: And we knew that if people believed in what they were doing and we provided the resources to take them to that next level, that we would get to that inflection point where everything would come together.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: And oh, I just read a quote from John C.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Maxwell, one of my favorites.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: He said, When you make a commitment, you create hope.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: When you keep a commitment, you create trust.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, I like it.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Well said.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: And I know, you know, you all have been really focused on, you know, the speed of trust and Stephen Covey and um and and I think one of your recent posts was about trust and collaboration.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's really what makes it all work.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: It is hard to do without trust.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: It's r it's relationship building.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: That's what we keep hearing over and over again.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Um as people from the from the district staff uh will go out and they'll talk to to farmers and landowners and and the trust, as you just said, that is extended to say, yeah, go ahead and make this change on my land is huge.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: It's huge, but it impacts so many people downstream.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: Is that really different than you mentioned phase one and phase two?
18:19
SPEAKER_03: So the whole process of the countywide action planning.
18:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm hearing you say that uh trust was one of those determining factors.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: But can you describe uh kind of the five years later impression of the CAP process?
18:35
SPEAKER_03: Because it's not what you experienced in phase one and two, right?
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: So it took us a long time because we did we did the countywide action plan process in phases.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: So with the pilot, we did a lot of learning.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: And then with tier two, things got all turned upside down with the with the pandemic and how we were going to actually do that outreach and that trust building.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: And but we were able to to overcome that, those challenges, because honestly, while we may not have all been in the same boat, I think we were weathering the same storm.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: So that commonality, we were all trying to figure out how to communicate with people and with each other, you know, virtually or whatever.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think now the local buy-in is there, and I've seen it especially in Lancaster County, but in and all across the watershed, in northern counties, because they get to see this is meaningful to us, this is meaningful to the community.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Um and yes, the Chesapeake Bay is important, but the primary focus is on the investments in the communities.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that was one of the major determining factors that got people hooked initially, but then committed to it longer term, is when the messaging included things like, here's your number, but you can write the plan to reflect whatever community goals you have.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: So if that nitrogen goal you can get there by putting in parks, and that's what you need to make sure there's benches for people, okay, great.
20:14
SPEAKER_03: Then write your plan that way.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: So we were able to do it with that local control and the local priorities, but also have the numbers, have the specifics that are bay-driven numbers, then kind of integrated locally.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and being able to use data to help make those decisions and honestly identify where the data was missing.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: It really helped to see, oh, we know we did more than this.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Why isn't it showing up here?
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Like we have to report it to us in order for us to turn it into into data and metrics.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that really helped to drive the whole like, oh, well, if we do good things here and we report it, then it will show up and we'll be able to then report that out to our stakeholders, our elected officials.
21:12
SPEAKER_03: Well, just like you said with the common goal that Lancaster has, when we had the cap, it was a tool that we could use to rally everybody around it.
21:19
SPEAKER_03: It was something we wrote collaboratively, it was something that we could then share back out and everybody use it for their own grant applications or explain that, use it to help explain to a funder, to a supporter, why their participation in this collaborative thing, like where it fits in, why does it matter?
21:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I appreciate the way that DEP gave us that local decision making.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: But I will also say that Lancaster kind of took it to the next level with a published document, a PDF that had some interactive components to it.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: It reflected things like those shared values of the network.
21:53
SPEAKER_03: But I think one of, I'm gonna answer my own question here over the five years.
21:58
SPEAKER_03: I think there's that's been some of the shifts of like we didn't anticipate using it that way when we first um I'll say accepted the invitation to write it because we were like I don't know about this if what are we getting ourselves into if we write this uh but I think that's one of the places when it we've been able to grow as a network but also work collaboratively with the DEP through that process.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: So uh in doing research into your your history and education and everything I saw that in in 2020 you received both the Governor's award for excellence and the Secretary's Employee Recognition Award for Leadership.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: This was in 2020 this was at the height the beginning of COVID.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean what was the most challenging part of your job at that time oh you're having me relive it um I'm so sorry that's okay so I'll say that there were two very challenging parts and I think both of them helped drive me and the my my professional growth and development and leadership and also I think the what we're doing here itself.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: So one challenge very significant was the level of frustration that I felt regarding what I can only describe as disbelief that from people outside of Pennsylvania in what we were capable of accomplishing.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: I took that very personally I was so highly frustrated.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And you know we had a strategy that we knew would work.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Like it wasn't like oh well we think this no we knew it could work if it was implemented you know and and it would work and I think also I think the reason why I took it personally is because I knew the people doing the work like I knew these people at the conservation districts I knew the people at the you know folks out there doing this work.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And I knew that they were like putting a lot of effort day in and day out in this I was I was just very frustrated with this like disbelief that we were hearing from all sides from everywhere.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: And so I finally had champions for data management systems, you know, we just talked about reporting historically it was challenging to get anyone to want to report anything because nobody likes paperwork, right?
24:33
SPEAKER_01: But we were finally able to start tracking and demonstrating successful implementation.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And you know I think once our Pennsylvania partners like like you like the clean water partners were able to kind of drown out that noise with your success and through storytelling and real numbers and hosting people from outside of Pennsylvania to show and showcase what's going on, see results in real time, that's when we started seeing a paradigm shift in kind of the attitude toward Pennsylvania.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: So I was saying in 2020 I was just I was just very frustrated with that.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: And the other challenging part I think was more personal I had to learn how far I could push myself before burning out.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: I was not sleeping it was a challenging because I had so much and I felt so much pressure you know failure wasn't an option.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I also had accepted responsibility to oversee three statewide programs.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: So learning and supporting them and getting them you know moving forward and doing the Chesapeake Bay again it was it was a lot of pressure.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: So I think what helped me overcome those challenges were definitely my team and my colleagues and we kind of banded together and you know my mentors and my family and just being able to be open and transparent and honest and vulnerable that's kind of hard to be right sometimes helped me be a real person and recognize and overcome these fears of failure.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: And it does still show up but now I can identify it and realize that it's an irrational fear you know but that really kind of helped in an odd way it did help kind of drive me toward being and help kind of elevate the importance of what we were doing because it is important.
26:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah well don't downplay that you were also a full-time working mom.
26:34
SPEAKER_03: You kind of have two children with COVID and oh my God.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Well they they were very self-sufficient and I my my daughter kept me very well caffeinated she really really liked the curvy she liked bringing mugs of coffee up to me about every two hours it was like Fantasia.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: It was like the mops coming and coming you know I love her.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: I love her but I was highly caffeinated that might have been one of the reasons why I wasn't sleeping very well she kept on bringing me mugs of coffee how exactly do you train your kids to do that?
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Because uh that sounds like a very useful so what was the most rewarding part of your job at that time I think that just being able to see how much people were really willing to work together toward new goals it it just kind of was one of those things where watching people find other people that they can work together with and helping them make those connections and identifying strengths that's really what was very rewarding to me.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: And it was very people focused.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a very people focused person.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: My my personality is on is on the task side I'm a task oriented person but so I think that's kind of like just watching it all happen and being able to reflect back on it.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah what about you?
28:11
SPEAKER_01: What was your most rewarding part of 2020?
28:16
SPEAKER_03: Well yeah oh gosh didn't expect that one did you I think it's like you said the momentum kept building that it sure things felt like they slowed down and we weren't able to do things at the pace we maybe had anticipated, but it didn't go away.
28:31
SPEAKER_03: People were still eager for these processes to improve to see the local goals met the action teams were really ramping up we had this tool as the cap to help get us there.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: So I think the most rewarding part was that the growth of the collaborative continued and it was at a pace that we, as you said, we knew was possible the people were doing the work and it was also when we started to feel that shift of not just projects but people and projects and the full scale of what we know has to be included to achieve the goals.
29:03
SPEAKER_03: So I think that was part of it.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: I think we also saw a big growth in our team here at the Cleanwater Partners.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: It was in February of 2020 that I was able to bring on an additional staff person.
29:15
SPEAKER_03: And I am so grateful for Emily Smedley and the role that she played in helping the Cleanwater Partners to grow as an organization.
29:22
SPEAKER_03: She and I were here for the year of 2020 and it was a really exciting time but I am so grateful for where we are now and I'm just so grateful for people like Ken and Megan and Christina and Alex and all of the people who have been part of the the backbone organization because we do one part of this, but it's really the storytelling and impact of the whole network.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: So to Yeah, that ripple effect.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking about the impact of COVID on connections and the fact that we had this kind of structure set up at at our level with working with multiple counties, but then with yours working with multiple partners do you think that the opportunity and the ability for people to continue to connect helped drive that momentum forward.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Like they could have just not right but they needed they needed to connect with other people and they needed a common goal.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: The timing for all of this and the opportunity for people to work together toward something that they could find as being a common goal while we were all kind of sequestered and kind of lost.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: Like we didn't know what the next step was going to be.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: There were so many unknowns.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: So to have something solid like a single common goal a cap that gives us the basics that we're all aiming for no matter if we we don't know what the next thing is going to come at us from when we can be in person next or what the next funding ask is but that could be the thing we all relied on.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: And that's the network that's the value of the collaborative that that was always there.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: To me I think the one of the things as relationships go is that with different technologies coming on like Zoom, I mean we still kept up relations but I think that it really showed the resiliency of people.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean once we got past a certain point and kind of got okay this is this is our reality for the moment people were s were so innovative and came up with these clever new ways to meet and still get the work done.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean I I think it really says something about a humans that that we will work around things and make things happen and B, humans that are collectively determined to meet a specific goal.
31:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: Well and we had the benefit of being in the conservation space that was one of the places people went for safety and a place of comfort during COVID.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: So the more often that we could have something outside or the more that we could talk about preserving our open spaces so that we can conserve those resources later, it all tied back even more easily.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah Joe, with that in mind, what are some of your leadership lessons at this point of the things that you now take into this new role as the acting deputy secretary of the Office of Water programs.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: So I'm an extrovert if you can't tell already I kind of figured that out of energy from others that I'm an extrovert and I've found out that there are people that actually think before they say anything I am not one of those people.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: It's like there is not a thought concept in there that doesn't come out of my mouth.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I learned that sometimes I need to be quiet and you know that kind of active listening right and I always seek mentors in in any capacity and I learned something from a mentor which was a powerful pause that you don't always have to fill the space you can take a breath and have a powerful pause.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: I I also learned too is that I don't always have to have all the answers.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: That there are other people that have answers that we can seek out and and go to we don't have to be the subject matter expert in every single thing.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: And so as I was kind of moving up through the ladder the management I learned who the people are that have the answers and knowing that I can reach out to those people and so building relationships like we were talking about earlier building trust building positive rapport making sure that you have those positive working relationships in the network I'm able to reach out to someone that hey I haven't talked to you for a while but I really need help with this they're willing to provide help.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: So I think in those kind of things I was just talking with someone earlier today about my management style they were like I'm not really used to your management style I'm like ooh I'm like is it bad am I like am I too overwhelming and and they were like no they're like actually they were so used to having to figure things out on their own for so long.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay and that they know that I'll kind of open up the door to bounce ideas off of I like to bounce ideas off of people.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah because again there's not a thought in my brain that doesn't come out of my mouth so so I talk through my thoughts a lot.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: You got a really busy notes app on your phone of where you do dump it all to get it out of no well so funny like I I just I just keep it all up there and I think sometimes it just gets a little bit haywired but um but yeah I think that's that's really how I like to operate is identifying strengths, identifying where they're experts and helping them kind of realize their potential.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:26
SPEAKER_03: So you're in one of the leadership roles within the Department of Environmental Protection.
35:30
SPEAKER_03: So as a state agency what is the real leadership role that you see them playing for guiding at the local level but having to provide a statewide perspective sure.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: I can speak to the the Chesapeake Bay program aspect too and the partnership there we are the lead agency the lead state agency for Chesapeake Bay watershed restoration efforts and activities.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean that we don't work with other state agencies.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: So we have a tri-agency with Department of Ag and Conservation Natural Resources.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: And so we all work together and provide that leadership and where the niche fits.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: So Department of Ag definitely they are focused on agriculture, conservation natural resources uh Secretary Don has been the champion of riparian forest buffers not only within Pennsylvania but I could tell you across the entire Bay watershed she is the champion for riparian forest buffers I see our role as helping to drive the partnership forward we're talking about beyond 2025 what are we going to do as a program as a collaborative of multiple states jurisdictions federal agencies all of the thousands of partners that we have at the at the local level what are we going to do and and and I think it's really important that we are very clear about the fact that all of the work is done locally I've said that before and some folks in other areas didn't necessarily like that because they're like we do work too yes but when it comes to water quality improvement when it comes to habitat improvement when it comes to implementing the goals and outcomes of the watershed agreement who does that work?
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'm not out there planting trees I'm not out there designing manure storages I'm not out there doing construction checks on rain gardens.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not doing that.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Making sure that we are very clear about the resources that need to be driven down to the local level and the ownership that we provide at that scale.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: And and I can tell you that has resonated across the local government advisory committee and scientific and technical advice like all of these advisory committees, the entire Bay Partnership it's it's definitely resonated that we can't just be a top down right there's a there's a feedback loop that needs to be continuous and not just well we're gonna tell you what to do and you're gonna tell us what you did.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: It's we're gonna see how you're doing and provide you support and the resources and you tell us what would make it better, what would make it easier.
38:41
SPEAKER_03: That's a really different approach than it had been in that shift you're seeing the agency then being in in a different leadership role and and receiving feedback in different ways.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely and I think we know at the end of the day we're the ones that are that are going to be seen as responsible for getting the work done but how we go about doing it we can't just continue to tell people what to do.
39:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Yep so how are we doing is Pennsylvania towards that 2025 how are we doing well I can tell you and I don't know how familiar people are with the University of Maryland Center for Environmental Sciences report card that came out in I believe it was July we have been saying that our water quality was improving at the river input monitoring stations at USGS or the United States Geological Survey reviews trends analysis we've been seeing it in the data that's been submitted but finally we're seeing it in this report card that showed that the upper bay where the Susquehanna River basin drains into was drastically improving and overall the score of the Bay while it's a C it was I think the highest it's been in two decades.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing we've been sharing success stories from the project perspective right we've been identifying the our our whole kind of thing was people, projects progress.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: We focus on the people we focus on the projects we will see progress and so it has been coming together.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I think that really demonstrates that we're moving in the right direction we're not where we want to be but we're making incremental progress and going in that right direction is really the important thing.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah people always want to be on a winning team and they they feel that their participation it really is making a difference immediately but then also over the long term.
41:14
SPEAKER_03: So if you're on team pollution jump one over well some of the teams that you have are taking pieces that came out of an ask that we were given from the Chesapeake Bay Commission they they prompted us to come up with the quote ideal process.
41:31
SPEAKER_03: And I know that your teams took a few of those pieces and are like diving in on on the details.
41:37
SPEAKER_03: Can you give us some of the scoop on what's been happening?
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: So uh we have been working with and and by we I mean actually other people on my team so I have to give I have to give them the full credit for it what we call uh progress teams.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: So last October we convened a a group of county partners and even state and federal partners to say okay we know what the challenges are we've kind of hit the low-hanging fruit so to speak how are we going to develop the strategies for success that will move us into the future and so for the last ever since January through now there have been three progress teams focused on staff building and staff retention, technical administrative assistance and funding and grant coordination.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: So those were the three progress teams and then each of those progress teams broke down into smaller smaller working groups and so they are coming up with not only what we need to focus on but how and who and when and all of those you know those things like who are the people that we need to is this a legislative or regulatory change?
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Is this a policy or programmatic change?
43:03
SPEAKER_01: And um I can tell you that I'm I'm really excited they're pulling all of these recommendations together as we speak and we'll be meeting in January again to kind of go over these strategies for success and how we're going to move forward.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh that's great.
43:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah I know I've heard very specific examples of the results of those teams what it's prompted for things like simplifying the application process or making a common application that could be used across different agencies.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah so as far as the the funding and the common application or the the dashboard and those types of things the Commonwealth Office of Digital Experience or Code PA has has been working on this.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: So when when this group was talking about these strategies we were also hearing that Code PA was working on developing a dashboard or some of these things Okay.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: And we made the like I said about connections.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: We made the connections with other folks in the agency that were connected with them and said, Hey, we have some really great ideas that we'd like to share with them.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: And they were all on board.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: They loved it.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: They wanted to hear these ideas to help inform these systems and these upgrades and the enhancement.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: So again, timing was couldn't have been any better because they were like, they knew that they needed to work on something, but we we were like, here are some very specific recommendations that are coming from a very large group of people on what could make it better.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: So that's one example.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: We are trying to establish the narrative as it relates to the bay deadlines and really push all the work that has been being done by our partner organizations all around the state.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: What is an important part of our local narrative progress that we can help amplify?
45:10
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go a little bit back.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: When we started out with this stakeholder engagement for Pennsylvania's Chesapeake Bay strategy, we um developed a slogan, what's great for PA is good for the Bay.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: And it really helped us flip the mentality of, well, we're doing this for the Bay, or we're doing this because EPA told us that we had to, or like it was like a we have to do this kind of thing.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: To, you know, what we do in Pennsylvania and in Lancaster benefits Pennsylvanians.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: It benefits farmers, it benefits businesses, it benefits communities.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think part of this narrative is we are building clean water infrastructure and flood resiliency through conservation practices, through stream corridor restoration and stormwater management.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: And we're doing what we are doing locally helps those downstream, but it ensures current and future generations have vibrant and healthy communities in which they live, work, and play.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: As we mentioned, you are the acting deputy secretary, Office of Water Programs at Pennsylvania's Department of Environmental Protection, D E P.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: As we already did uh Pennsylvania Trivia with Adam Ortiz uh in episode six.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: So I had to come up with a different kind of approach.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: Ken gets a little creative with these things.
46:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, I have to.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: I have to keep them entertaining.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: This is Pennsylvania in entertainment.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's going to be TV, movies, music.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: All right.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Starting off, this television show was shot in mockumentary style and followed the workers at Dunder Mifflin, a fictious paper company that was sitting in Scranton.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: What was that show?
47:07
SPEAKER_00: The Office.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: It walls indeed The Office.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: This 1976 film tells the story of a small-time Philadelphia boxer who gets a very rare chance to fight the world heavyweight champion in a bout, in which he strives to go the distance for his self-respect.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: It won the Academy Award for Best Picture.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what it was?
47:29
SPEAKER_00: Rocky.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: It was indeed Rocky.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: You're very good at this.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: This television show follows three generations of the Pearson family as they navigate their lives across parallel time frames.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: The family lives in Pittsburgh in the flashbacks, and in the modern times, they live in Philadelphia.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what that show is called?
47:49
SPEAKER_01: Is it the Goldbergs?
47:52
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, it's This Is Us.
47:53
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't I don't know the show personally.
47:56
SPEAKER_03: I'm scared to cry that much.
47:58
SPEAKER_03: I haven't watched it.
47:59
SPEAKER_03: I can't watch shows that make me cry.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: This 1999 film was set in Philadelphia, starred Bruce Willis and Haley Joe Osmet.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: The latter of two had an ability to see dead people.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: The Sixth Sense?
48:17
SPEAKER_00: It is the Sixth Sense.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: This 1982 Billy Joel song from his album, The Nylon Curtain, talks about the plight of this Pennsylvania town when the steel industry and the coal industry moved away.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Is it Allentown?
48:33
SPEAKER_00: It is Allentown.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: That was our tourism.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: We kept it nice and short and sweet.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: Woo!
48:43
SPEAKER_00: Great job.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's it.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: That's our show.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: We want to thank you so much for uh for coming on and just and thank you for all the work that you're doing on our behalf with the with the DEP and for um continuing to elevate Lancaster and putting that narrative in front of a Bay audience.
49:02
SPEAKER_03: And thank you for being the lead for this work in Pennsylvania and then allowing us to be part of that story.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: I love working with all of you.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: It is just that's what helps me.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: I love to see the good work that's happening, and I love to be able to share success stories and good news stories with people and say, look at what's going on here.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Why will we do more of this?
49:30
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I I wouldn't be I wouldn't be here if it weren't for all of you.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: Go team.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: Raw.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's our show.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: We will be back in just a couple of weeks.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Until then, take care.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: Cleanwater Conversations is brought to you by Lancaster Clean Water Partners.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: If you have comments or suggestions on the show topics, please contact us at infol at Lancaster Cleanwater Partners.com.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.