Latest / Just & Joyful with Kristin Carver Smith / Well-Being in the Midst of Life-Saving Work and Advocacy with Cece Jones-Davis
Transcript
- Kristin Carver Smith: Hello and welcome to another episode of Just and Joyful with Kristin Carversmith. I am your host, Kristin Carversmith or KCS as most folks call me. And I am so excited about today's guest. Welcome C.C. Jones Davis to the Just and Joyful podcast. You are just so kind. I'm ⁓ so grateful. I'm so ⁓ privileged to have had the opportunity to work alongside Cece. And let me tell y'all a little bit about Cece because Cece has done some incredible, world-changing work and so world-changing that she was in fact named a top. Changemaker of the Year by Change.org. So Cece is an award-winning faith leader, a public speaker, a human rights advocate, and we both share, we both have in common that we're singer-songwriters. Which is, I love that, I know music means so much to you as it does to me. Cece, you are probably best known for your work helping, I say save, save. Julius Jones from death, from execution. And your work in his ⁓ campaign called Justice for Julius, ⁓ how did you get involved in that work? And take us back even a little bit further, how did you even get involved in advocacy work? Hmm. Mmm. Ugh, I gotta stop you right there because that definition, they heard someone's story and they were disturbed about it and had to do something about it. That that's the definition of advocacy. Because I think a lot of times, advocate, as you're alluding to here, also, it feels like it's a relatively new term or even title for someone. But what you're talking about is, ⁓ that you have known advocates all your life and you've been surrounded by them. And I think a lot of times when we think of advocacy, we can think it's like this big complicated thing, but what you're describing right here is ⁓ something that also just feels like so human. Mmm. Mmm. Wow. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Wow. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Amen. Hahaha you Ha Wow. Wow. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yep. Yep. Amen. Amen. ⁓ that's so beautiful. And I love that you said you knew that you weren't going to be a traditional minister, minister, but you were called to ministry. And I think, I think a lot of our listeners can identify with that of feeling like perhaps they're supposed to, you know, move into a specific field or they have this calling, but it doesn't feel quote unquote traditional and it's not lost on me that my agency is called the new fashioned, right? It's that the old fashioned version didn't feel like it applied to me too. And I think a lot of people are trying to navigate that for themselves as maybe some of the traditional systems, the traditional institutions, traditional career paths don't feel true, but the calling does. And so I love that you're modeling another path. for people, you're modeling another way for folks. And so I'm curious, how did you come across Julius Jones' story and what was it like for you to go on that journey? And what did you learn about yourself from that particular experience? Because I think the through line is still similar of helping someone and you talk about being pushed to the edge. right to the margins. It's like that, there's still a similarity there, but you talk about very different, very different worlds. ⁓ you're good. No, you're good. This is the real real. Y'all, it's cold. Like we have to stay warm. It's cold. Yes. Yes. We're here for it. So I'm just, how did you, ⁓ what was it about Julius's story? Like how did you even come across Julius's story? Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Yep. Of course, yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well... Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hey man. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah. Hmm. Right? Right. Which is just such a... It's not lost on me, right? That that also seems to be a challenge that we're facing in this particular moment in time too. That practice, so to speak, I would rather someone else deal with me being wrong than me admit that I was actually Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's so beautiful. And I remember that day well and remember what it was like to see those headlines come across and to take a deep breath in some ways. you said something that I wanna make sure that our listeners heard of community meeting to movement, to... And it was ⁓ a national movement. It was a global movement. This touched so many different corners. It touched so many different lives. And I think oftentimes, as a human myself, as for our listeners as well, is that we can, when we see something that disturbs us, as you said, that it can feel overwhelming to know where to start. and to know what sort of action to take, like what is the first step? And I love that you have this very vivid example for us of you said, okay, I wanna talk about this with people. Like if you have an interest in talking about it and figuring out what we do about it, let's meet here. And I think that's just something, I don't know how much of that we do today or particularly I would say, you know. ⁓ I feel like we're seeing that amongst younger generations more too. Like I feel like we're seeing, ⁓ you know, more demographics mobilizing perhaps than before because the consequences of not feel really, really dire. ⁓ But I love that that again was like the first place that you started. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, y'all hear that? Y'all hear that? Because I think, Cece, that can be discouraging for people sometimes is I'm not an expert, I don't have credentials, I'm not, you know, I didn't pass the bar. So how could I possibly like do anything of meaning? Right, right. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Cece, this is so helpful for listeners because I think again, people just go, all right, so you and the coalition are sitting in these rooms and it's like stroke of genius every single meeting and you have, you know, the best possible strategy and idea. And again, everybody's super qualified and super well connected and... Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And see, again, I think that's also so important because as a publicist, I've seen so many times I'm working with clients where clients will be like, I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over again. I just, you know, I want to be able to say something new and something fresh. And oftentimes I will say that when there's a difference between someone who is interested, and I hate to frame it this way, but I'm gonna do it, interested in being a one-hit wonder and being known for one specific project. and someone who was like, no, I'm actually like, I'm trying to pioneer movement. I'm trying to push the world forward in this way. And oftentimes, right, it's that like repetitive, yes, you're gonna be saying some of the same things over and over so that as you've pointed out, that when the moment comes for other people to be telling that story, for other people to be saying those things, there's not. You know, there's not like a ginormous training that has to happen for that. It's organic and people are bringing their own context and their own heart and their own perspective to it and sharing about the way that it's touched their lives. And so I love again, you've said that because I think again, for listeners who are going like, sometimes I feel like I'm screaming into a void or sometimes I feel like, again, I'm not qualified or gosh, I feel like perhaps I've said this 100 times. I really feel like what I'm hearing from you is like, keep going and keep surrounding yourself with the people who, the heart, the grit, the willingness, right? And I'm curious on that note of what the stamina also had to look like and has to look like for someone who is engaging in advocacy in the ways perhaps that you're engaging in them of. What does your care routine look like? What are the things that you've learned about how you have to take care of yourself in order to sustain yourself for sometimes a very long fight? Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you have said that because also I have felt that in my own life. I know what it's like to go through those seasons of like covered enough, right? Covered enough of like for this season and you know, I will say that it's like, know in my experience, you know, I had a season of rest that, you know, I was thrust into whether I liked it or not that happened post that. But I do think that like our listeners can also identify with that, it's, two things can be true, that you can look back at some of these things and go like, okay, if I have to fight this fight in the future, here's how I might, here's how I might train differently. And I also know that I was covered enough that I had enough energy that I did exactly what I was supposed to do when I was supposed to do it. No more, no less. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Say more about that. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Amen. Mm-hmm. Mm. ⁓ Mm. Hmm. Yeah. asking. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Mm, it's so good. It's so good. And I also like the way that you're giving our listeners and viewers permission to also like to set boundaries. You don't have to do that work every time. And I think that was, I love that like you knew this is my assignment in this particular season. And it doesn't mean that I'm not passionate about the cause still. It doesn't mean that I don't, that everything that I was, you know, ⁓ amplifying and lifting up in terms of what I believe about the system, whether I believe the system is, you know, unjust, all of those things that it's like, that can still happen. I love that it's like you've moved into a, I don't want to say moved higher, but in some ways it's like you're, you're, you're looking at it from a different perspective now. And you're working on it from a different perspective now because you clearly understand like this is, this is where I'm supposed to serve because I'm actually supposed to do some other things in the season two. And it doesn't, I'm not going to have the same bandwidth if I do that for every single person. And some individuals and some organizations that might be, that might be the assignment for many, many seasons, but for you, you knew that it was for, for, but a time, right? Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah. And you have a whole, like you have a whole new experience that has given you even more tools and even more strategies and skills and all of that to be able to help other people who might face this same or similar journey. You're able to equip other people now in a way that you wouldn't have been able to do before. And that is such a huge, I mean, that's such a blessing for so many folks. And so I love what I'm hearing from you too, in terms of self-cares. It's like I'm hearing discernment, I'm hearing boundaries, I'm hearing like being clear, I'm hearing clarity. And I think oftentimes again, when we think of like wellness, we don't necessarily think about those things, right? Like we might immediately go to the like, let me like eucalyptus shower and a face mask, right? And it's like, but these are the things that are so important for wellness and are so important for us. Mmm. Whoo, say, help our listeners understand what does mercy gift mean to you? Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, know that one well and it has, you're right. It's like, know it can come back and harm you. Mmm. Mm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that you, again, that you have that clarity. And I think a lot of us have experiences that we walk away with a ton of clarity on, and then it's that moment of going like, I'm really clear on this is not my assignment moving forward. When the opportunity comes for me to say no to something like that, can I do it? Can I actually say it? And I think that sometimes where the tension, right, of like where as you said with those of us who have mercy gifts, that it's like the sliding of that, the backsliding of those sometimes of going like, okay, well maybe, like maybe I'll just do this one. And then you get into it you know, like this was not my assignment in this season. And yet I'm, you know, I'm here. And it's like, it's, you know, I know it can be, I'll just speak from my own experience. I know it can be, I've been frustrated with myself at times because sometimes in seasons of burnout, I'm like, I'm the one who I marched myself up to the burnout. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I do too, I do too. So one of the pieces that I like to talk about as it pertains to wellness and you know this world well is community and support systems. And so I'm so curious because you brought together a community of people. You helped form a coalition. That is not the same thing though as community in terms of friends and people who you know, perhaps is your people who are your sounding board or you know, so I'm just curious like how did you distinguish from like I am the community leader and also like Community is still important for my own. Well-being. How did you navigate that? What does your community actually look like? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You Yes, there's an agenda. There's a point. Yeah. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm! think that's so good and here's why. I had a conversation with ⁓ one of our other guests about this too, who's a therapist, and we kind of talked about how she is also in a profession, as you and I both are, which often require us to like, we talk most of the day, right? We will often be listening to or in conversation with a lot of different individuals and we can, five, six, seven o'clock rolls around and on the outside looking in, can look like we've been quote unquote social all day. And the reality is we were working, right? And even though we had to use quote unquote social skills, which I would just say it's just communication skills, right? Even though we had to do that, it wasn't, it's not a substitute for our people. It's not a substitute for our, for our community, for our sounding boards, for our friends, for that type of time too. But I think It can get muddy for a lot of folks. And I think that's where sometimes it can be like, does this, you know, does a friendship or relationship I have with a colleague, does that translate into like, do they fit inside of this community who helps care for me as well? Can that be the same thing? Should it be different? What are some of the, you know, the lines there? Is a client a friend? Are they not? Right? So I think it's so helpful for you to... draw that distinction for, know, of what it's looked like for you and to even help listeners and viewers consider what do I want that to look like for me? And is my community who cares for me? Is that actually, have I actually been using my work people, I'm gonna call it my work people, is my work people my community who cares for me? And that's not, is it misplaced? Is it, do I have it wrong? Does that? So I think it's just an opportunity to pause and kind of ask some questions around. Yes. Uh-huh. Yep. Yep. Mmm. What a relief, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, yep. Hmm. Yeah. Yes, the work. Yep. Yep. That's good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I get it. That's so relate. Invisible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's so good. It's so good. So Cece, as we get ready to wrap up here, for those who are listening, who are interested in getting more involved with, whether it's community work, whether it's coalition building, whether it's advocacy work, you know, and again, whether it's they're just starting out on that journey, they've been in it for years, decades even. What's some of the wisdom and advice that you have for them? Mmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yep. Yeah. Yes. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm only laughing because I'm like, it's true. I know that like so many of us, myself, absolutely included, we'll go down all the rabbit holes with that. And with the internet, it's like with where we're at in terms of how much insight, although I have strong feelings about how much is like, yes, we have a lot of insight and also there's a lot of, there's such a lack of transparency in so many things too, but it's like we have the ability to go down endless rabbit holes with this. Yeah, agreed, agreed. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep, yep. Yeah. Yeah, we are each other's keepers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you're sharing different forms of what that can look like too. Cause I think back to the beginning of this conversation, we talk about your grandmother, right? Her form of advocacy looked like writing obituaries, right? Like that was like, she could bring her talents and skills and gifts to, to amplify the, how wonderful other humans were and are. And it's like that's, there's so many different ways that we can use the talents and the skills and the gifts and all of the things that God has blessed each one of us with as a form of advocacy, right? And so I love again of all of these examples, because I think oftentimes we can think of it has to look one specific way or it has to be exercised in this specific manner or else. So. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Mmm. Yeah. Yes. Yep. And we have so many folks who listen to and watch this podcast who are authors, who are musicians, who are authors, who are advocates, who are business owners. And inevitably all of them have come up against and will continue to come up against moments where it feels like, well, maybe I should just hit copy and paste. Like, let me just emulate what this. person has done and let me know actually I want to try to fit into the armor and I just I love this wisdom so much of it you know God did create each one of us so differently and so uniquely and it's like there is there is one CC there is one KCS like there is just and and so it's like why would I not be the one like why would you not be the one like why would we not do our own thing? And so I love that reminder because I think we need to hear it over and over again. So thank you so much for saying and sharing that. I've got one last question for you before we kind of go into a couple of fun ones. ⁓ What does it look like for you to weave joy into your work? that always even possible? Because I know that you touch some heavy and hard places. And so what does that look like for you? Mm. Mmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Amen. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mmm. Mmm. ⁓ Mmm. Yeah. Right. What they experienced. I love that. Yeah. And I think, you know, I know earlier in this conversation, you were talking about the work that you have done and the places that you've walked and the things that you've seen is that a lot of times that has taken you into places where you've seen the depravity of human beings. And I also think about how some of those spaces have also allowed you to see some of the best in humans too. so this, you truly have this like, I've seen the spectrum, right? And so that's a hard thing to hold, but I think it's so powerful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Amen. Yes. Yes. mm. Whoo, Cece, this conversation could go on forever, and obviously we will have to have you back at some point. But as we wrap up, I wanna ask you a couple fun questions. ⁓ What shows, books, or podcasts are you just obsessed with right now? Okay, uh-huh. ⁓ huh, yep. And now you're hooked. Yeah. Mmm. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Mmm. Okay. I'll just send them this episode and say, Cece said, you gotta come on. Wow. Wow. Mmm. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, such a good topic. I have a million things to also say and share on anger after going through my own experience. I think with all the therapeutic programming and stuff like that that I've gone through, a big core of it is the feeling wheel. And looking at our sort six core emotions and anger being part of that. I think oftentimes we're not taught that... Anger, one, is an emotion that is going to come up and what it's trying to tell us, what we do with that, how we channel that into things, how we harness that into something that's positive and helpful. So I love this, we'll definitely have to have her on. ⁓ Speaking of feelings and emotions, what is your go-to resource when you're feeling overstimulated? Mm-hmm. That is it first. I'm here for it. You you laughing because that would be so activating for my nervous system. But I love that it's like, actually that might, that's helpful for you. And see, this is why I'm like, it's important that we all understand. It's like, each one of us has different things that help regulate us. And it's so important for us to know that about ourselves and take time to know that about ourselves. okay, Cece, who is the, you're a justice champion. Who is the justice champion? or advocate that you're always hitting repost on. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. mmm! yes! What a list this is. ⁓ yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Beacons, yes, beacons, absolutely. All right, last question. What's something that's bringing you joy right now? Mmm. Yes. Mmm. We love a good throw. Look, we don't need to be responsible for keeping other things alive right now, right? Yeah. Mm. I love that. Well, Cece, we are so blessed to have had you on today. I know this episode is gonna be, it's gonna be so helpful for so many folks. So thank you so much for joining us. Listeners. Thank you for saying yes. ⁓ Listeners, you all can find more info about Cece at cecijonesdavis.com or by following her on social media at Cece Jones Davis. Cece, thank you so much and we look forward to having you on again in the future.