Latest / Where We Rise / 29 | "Beyond Her Capabilities" | Not Defined by Disabilities

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29 | "Beyond Her Capabilities" | Not Defined by Disabilities · Where We Rise

• 0:00
  Khalila McCoy: Hey, I'm Khalila McCoy, and this is a show that empowers you to keep moving forward, not only for yourself, but for others as well.
• 0:08
  Khalila McCoy: This is where we rise.
• 0:12
  Khalila McCoy: Hey there, welcome to the show.
• 0:15
  Khalila McCoy: I'm very excited to be here with you as we continue our back to school series where we explore how others learn, both literally and figuratively, and how they see the world so we can learn a little bit more ourselves.
• 0:28
  Khalila McCoy: This week has been a very busy week for me, as it is my first full week back to school.
• 0:34
  Khalila McCoy: As you guys know, I've been in education for many years, but this is my fourth year as a math specialist, and we have been hitting the ground running.
• 0:41
  Khalila McCoy: Now, when I told my former middle school teacher, Miss Roshong, that I spend my days teaching math and supporting others with math, she had to laugh.
• 0:51
  Khalila McCoy: Growing up, you guys, I hated math.
• 0:54
  Khalila McCoy: And I told everybody.
• 0:56
  Khalila McCoy: I had convinced myself that it was too hard, that I wasn't capable, and that it simply wasn't for me.
• 1:02
  Khalila McCoy: Ms.
• 1:03
  Khalila McCoy: Roshang was my history teacher, not my math teacher, but she knew of the strong dislike that I had for math.
• 1:10
  Khalila McCoy: But after she left, and we talked about how much I've grown to love working with others around math, she said something that I truly appreciated.
• 1:18
  Khalila McCoy: She said she wasn't surprised because she always knew I could do anything I set my mind to and that I was meant to be an educator.
• 1:26
  Khalila McCoy: When I think about the kind of teacher I am today and the way I connect with students and families, so much of it comes from growing up with teachers like her and people who saw me, believed in me, and shaped the way I show up in the world.
• 1:38
  Khalila McCoy: I'm truly grateful for the people who have cheered me on, but I've also had experiences where teachers and other adults have tried to limit me.
• 1:47
  Khalila McCoy: Sometimes intentionally, and other times they thought they were being helpful.
• 1:51
  Khalila McCoy: Our guest today, Michelle Steiner, knows that experience well.
• 1:56
  Khalila McCoy: Living with the math disability dyscalchalia, she was told many times what she wouldn't be able to do.
• 2:03
  Khalila McCoy: I'm sure some believe that they were guiding her towards an easier path, but Michelle refused to let limited expectations define her.
• 2:11
  Khalila McCoy: She didn't allow her disability to stop her then, and she doesn't allow it to stop her now.
• 2:16
  Khalila McCoy: Today, Michelle is going to share with us what it was like growing up being labeled with a disability from kindergarten, what it was like feeling different than her peers, and navigating moments of struggle, but choosing again and again to keep moving forward.
• 2:31
  Khalila McCoy: Let's listen.
• 2:33
  Khalila McCoy: Michelle, how are you?
• 2:36
  Khalila McCoy: I am great.
• 2:38
  Khalila McCoy: How are you?
• 2:39
  Khalila McCoy: I'm doing really good today.
• 2:40
  Khalila McCoy: We talked about the sun is shining, it's a beautiful day, so I'm excited to be here talking to you.
• 2:46
  Michelle Steiner: Yes, same here.
• 2:49
  Khalila McCoy: I'm gonna start us off by reading what you sent me when you learned about the show and decided that you wanted to be a guest.
• 2:56
  Khalila McCoy: You said, Hi, my name is Michelle, and I have a learning disability.
• 3:00
  Khalila McCoy: I'm a writer, speaker, photographer, and paraeducation educator.
• 3:04
  Khalila McCoy: I was told that I could not go to college, get my bachelor's degree, or have the job I wanted.
• 3:09
  Khalila McCoy: I was able to do all of that and more.
• 3:12
  Khalila McCoy: I would love to share my story with you.
• 3:14
  Khalila McCoy: So when I read that, I just heard the power and confidence in your words, and so I knew I would not pass up on the opportunity to have a conversation with you.
• 3:23
  Khalila McCoy: So I would just love to just start where you are comfortable and just tell us the name of your disability and then describe it in your own words.
• 3:33
  Michelle Steiner: Sure, I would be happy to.
• 3:35
  Michelle Steiner: I have a learning disability.
• 3:36
  Michelle Steiner: I have dyscalculea, which is a math learning disability, and that affects on how I um with numbers.
• 3:44
  Michelle Steiner: It can be hard.
• 3:46
  Michelle Steiner: It's I don't see numbers backwards, but it's hard with no understanding how they work, forgetting the steps in a math problem.
• 3:52
  Michelle Steiner: Um, but it goes beyond that.
• 3:55
  Michelle Steiner: I'm not able to read the face of a clock, and I can I confuse my right from my left, and those are uh pretty common symptoms of that.
• 4:03
  Michelle Steiner: I also have limited hand dexterity in both of my hands.
• 4:07
  Michelle Steiner: Okay, and that affects me with my fine motor skills, uh locking doors, unlocking doors, uh things can fall out of my hands.
• 4:16
  Michelle Steiner: I also have visual perception issues, but that is in my brain, not in my eyes.
• 4:22
  Michelle Steiner: So that affects more of my reaction time and my eye-hand coordination, and I'm not able to drive because of that.
• 4:30
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 4:30
  Khalila McCoy: So I told you before, too, I find this really interesting because I am a math coach myself.
• 4:37
  Khalila McCoy: So that's my job is to help students with math.
• 4:40
  Khalila McCoy: So, and a lot of times we see kids who might struggle with these certain things, and dyscalculia is not something that we are trained on, knowing about and, you know, knowing what to look for and things like that.
• 4:53
  Khalila McCoy: So, how old were you when you first found out that you had this disability?
• 4:58
  Michelle Steiner: They found out I had a learning disability in kindergarten.
• 5:01
  Michelle Steiner: My teacher could really see that I was struggling in the classroom.
• 5:04
  Michelle Steiner: And whenever my teacher recommended I get tested for having a learning disability, and whenever they did the evaluation, uh it came as no surprise to them that I have one.
• 5:15
  Michelle Steiner: And I can remember they did not, as I said, they didn't give it a specific name, but they knew when I was five or six I was not going to be a mathematician.
• 5:22
  Michelle Steiner: That was not in the cards for me.
• 5:26
  Khalila McCoy: Hey, don't worry.
• 5:27
  Khalila McCoy: Some days I'm not sure I'm a mathematician.
• 5:29
  Khalila McCoy: Just try really hard to get it right and help other people.
• 5:35
  Khalila McCoy: So if since it wasn't first seen as dyscalclea, what did they say your disability was?
• 5:43
  Michelle Steiner: What they would what they still they still don't, this is where it comes into with the diagnostic criteria.
• 5:50
  Michelle Steiner: It'll come up as specific learning disability and math.
• 5:53
  Michelle Steiner: Okay.
• 5:54
  Michelle Steiner: But at that time, it was just learning disability.
• 5:56
  Michelle Steiner: And they they knew that the math, that's how it impacted me.
• 6:00
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 6:01
  Khalila McCoy: So talk us through how that felt going through elementary school, especially, you know, when math is a big part of your day.
• 6:09
  Khalila McCoy: It's a big expectation that you're moving, you know, along with your peers.
• 6:13
  Khalila McCoy: How did that feel for you?
• 6:15
  Khalila McCoy: It was really difficult for me.
• 6:17
  Michelle Steiner: I just remember feeling that struggle whenever I was a very small child.
• 6:22
  Michelle Steiner: I had to repeat kindergarten and I began to receive specialty instruction in all areas.
• 6:27
  Michelle Steiner: And I also had accommodations, but it was hard for me, not only academically but socially.
• 6:35
  Michelle Steiner: When I was in regular ed, everybody could see that I was struggling in the classroom.
• 6:39
  Michelle Steiner: And I couldn't hide.
• 6:41
  Michelle Steiner: I went to a very small school district where everybody knew each other.
• 6:43
  Michelle Steiner: They were close-knit if you fit in.
• 6:45
  Michelle Steiner: And if you weren't one of them, you certainly didn't fit fit in, and life was difficult.
• 6:51
  Michelle Steiner: And I can just remember I couldn't just blend in.
• 6:54
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, they saw me in the classroom struggling, going to learning support.
• 6:57
  Michelle Steiner: And the bullying started really early whenever I was young.
• 7:01
  Michelle Steiner: And when I was younger, it wasn't just, oh, um, a lot of times it was, well, you're not invited to my birthday party, and you can't play with me on the playground.
• 7:11
  Michelle Steiner: And it got a lot, um, not to jump too far ahead, but academically, school got a lot easier for me when I went to high school, but socially that got a lot harder for me.
• 7:22
  Michelle Steiner: But one of the things that was really key was writing.
• 7:27
  Michelle Steiner: They found out I was really good at writing and reading.
• 7:29
  Michelle Steiner: And my dad found a story about a dinosaur that I wrote in second or third grade and said, wow, this is really good.
• 7:35
  Michelle Steiner: And when he did that, I was like, wow, I am good at something because I didn't think I was good at anything.
• 7:42
  Michelle Steiner: I thought that I wasn't smart.
• 7:44
  Michelle Steiner: I thought I'm just I don't have any talents or any skills.
• 7:47
  Michelle Steiner: And writing and reading really became my world uh starting when I was young.
• 7:53
  Khalila McCoy: Yes.
• 7:54
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, I think that's the hard thing.
• 7:56
  Khalila McCoy: A lot of times when a student is struggling in one area, there's so much pressure, right?
• 8:03
  Khalila McCoy: Because there's so much support and the intention is good, but you spend so much time helping them in that one area, we don't always get to focus on the strengths.
• 8:12
  Khalila McCoy: Or by the time you get to your strength, you're probably just mentally fatigued from trying so hard with math that you might not be able to give as much to the other areas.
• 8:22
  Michelle Steiner: Right.
• 8:22
  Michelle Steiner: Exactly.
• 8:24
  Khalila McCoy: When you talked about um being bullied and things like that, how did you handle that?
• 8:29
  Khalila McCoy: Were there adults in your life that you could kind of go to and talk to about it?
• 8:34
  Khalila McCoy: Or did you feel like you had to handle most of it on your own?
• 8:38
  Michelle Steiner: I was really lucky that I found a group when I was in high school that I was not connecting with people, peers in my school, it just wasn't happening for me.
• 8:48
  Michelle Steiner: So what I ended up doing was I found a group right outside of my school district that was an arts group, and I got to meet other peers that I didn't go to school with, and they had the same interests.
• 8:59
  Michelle Steiner: So I had that acceptance, and that helped a lot with my confidence, and I could shake that reputation that followed me ever since I was that little kindergartner, of being that outcast.
• 9:11
  Michelle Steiner: And I my parents were great for taking me places as well.
• 9:15
  Michelle Steiner: And then I once I transitioned out of that group when I was a teenager, I also found an adult, uh, a writing group for adults.
• 9:24
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 9:25
  Michelle Steiner: And that was great because they were just a couple years older than I was, and they got to wr watch me grow as a writer and a person.
• 9:33
  Michelle Steiner: And at that time I thought, oh no, uh, they they told me, oh, you should write about having a disability.
• 9:37
  Michelle Steiner: I thought, oh no, I'm not having this, it's too personal.
• 9:41
  Michelle Steiner: And 20 some years later, uh, we still meet once a month to talk about our writing.
• 9:48
  Khalila McCoy: Wow.
• 9:49
  Michelle Steiner: And we're still in each other's lives, and it's just they've really made that difference.
• 9:54
  Michelle Steiner: And they got to watch me grow as that writer and that person.
• 9:56
  Michelle Steiner: Yeah.
• 9:57
  Michelle Steiner: And my my parents were just really great about taking me places, and my dad's the one that found out about the the writing group.
• 10:04
  Michelle Steiner: And I thought, okay, I'm gonna go and I'm going to see what that's about.
• 10:09
  Michelle Steiner: And it was also nicer having older friends that were of a good influence too, because driving was not that big of a deal.
• 10:17
  Michelle Steiner: Some of my peers were asked me, Well, are you driving yet?
• 10:20
  Michelle Steiner: And I only went to hang out with you for you drive.
• 10:22
  Michelle Steiner: But a lot of uh my friends who were older, just by a few years, that that wasn't a factor to them.
• 10:28
  Michelle Steiner: After, I mean, after they found out I couldn't do it, they're like, okay, we'll take you places, no big deal.
• 10:34
  Michelle Steiner: And they've always had that open um policy.
• 10:37
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, I love that you had that group of people to be with who saw who you were beyond the disability.
• 10:43
  Khalila McCoy: When you because you already shared with us that you have limited ability in your hands and the perception, did that gradually decrease, or was that like right away when you were young, or all of that was noticed at once?
• 10:58
  Michelle Steiner: They noticed the vision perception when I was young.
• 11:01
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, they was uncoordinated.
• 11:03
  Michelle Steiner: I would blink every time a ball came in my direction.
• 11:06
  Michelle Steiner: And I always had poor handwriting.
• 11:10
  Michelle Steiner: But one of the things was and then the but the visual perception came first because they I was in school and they even went, I went to the eye doctor and had normal vision, but my visual perception was off.
• 11:23
  Michelle Steiner: So I remember there was like little activities.
• 11:25
  Michelle Steiner: Uh, my dad made me a balance beam, and then we had like a wiffle ball that we hung from our ceiling in the family room uh downstairs in the basement, and I would go and try to hit the the ball so many times, but it didn't turn me into an athlete.
• 11:39
  Michelle Steiner: Uh and that um certainly was something that came up whenever driving was it.
• 11:47
  Michelle Steiner: My my parents knew that that was going to be a challenge for me, so they thought, well, we're going to wait a year.
• 11:53
  Michelle Steiner: We didn't immediately try to get my license when I was 16, like a lot of families do, or start studying for that.
• 11:59
  Michelle Steiner: And then they gave me little tasks to do.
• 12:03
  Michelle Steiner: And we lived out in the country and the field, uh, well, we had a field in our house.
• 12:09
  Michelle Steiner: So they said, Well, can you go mow the field?
• 12:11
  Michelle Steiner: And instead of making beautiful long uh lines, I ended up making crop circles.
• 12:16
  Michelle Steiner: So I always say I know where crop circles come from.
• 12:19
  Khalila McCoy: And I almost uh not the aliens.
• 12:25
  Michelle Steiner: And I almost ran the family car into the garage.
• 12:28
  Michelle Steiner: And at that point, my mom and dad said, This is time to um get something you know established and see what's going on.
• 12:36
  Michelle Steiner: And I passed every test, just like at the eye doctor, that with my vision until we got the visual perception, and I just they said they they didn't recommend that.
• 12:45
  Michelle Steiner: Now the hand dexterity was not officially diagnosed until I was an adult, but the light bulb went off at that point because I not only had poor handwriting going through school, but things would fall out of my hands and people just thought I was clumsy and I couldn't uh use twist ties.
• 13:02
  Michelle Steiner: Uh if you give me a manual can opener, it's like trying to operate a spaceship.
• 13:07
  Michelle Steiner: So I and I just pass through them a little bit.
• 13:11
  Khalila McCoy: So what is so you said like not using twist ties or a can opener.
• 13:15
  Khalila McCoy: I'm sure like when you're trying, right, you're focusing on trying to get that open.
• 13:20
  Khalila McCoy: What is like do you not see it correctly, or are you like, I don't know which way to turn it?
• 13:24
  Khalila McCoy: How does that feel in the moment?
• 13:27
  Michelle Steiner: I I can see it, but it's making those connections with my hands.
• 13:32
  Michelle Steiner: Okay.
• 13:32
  Michelle Steiner: And trying to get it in the direction, and then sometimes just the dexterity of of that.
• 13:38
  Michelle Steiner: And that's also a sensory issue.
• 13:40
  Michelle Steiner: I can remember one of the tests, they were like, oh, they were touching my hands, and I couldn't figure out which which finger they were touching.
• 13:46
  Michelle Steiner: And then it's also just how they work in general.
• 13:50
  Michelle Steiner: I can remember they had they blindfolded me and had me put shapes in a shape sorter.
• 13:56
  Michelle Steiner: And my hand, I just that's how they measure how your hands work.
• 14:02
  Michelle Steiner: And I had a a lot of difficulty with that.
• 14:06
  Michelle Steiner: And it was always hard for me maybe to grip pencils.
• 14:09
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, my handwriting has always been bad.
• 14:11
  Michelle Steiner: I they in fact they put a W on my report card for weakness.
• 14:15
  Michelle Steiner: And finally, when I learned how to type, that really changed a lot of things.
• 14:19
  Michelle Steiner: And now I also like the dictation software that they have.
• 14:23
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 14:23
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, there's a lot more things to help.
• 14:27
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 14:28
  Khalila McCoy: Now, again, like I said, as a math coach, like I work with a lot of kids, right?
• 14:33
  Khalila McCoy: And you talked about, you know, blindfolding you and having you do these activities.
• 14:37
  Khalila McCoy: And, you know, obviously we have to do different activities to see what the child is able to do and kind of rule out certain things.
• 14:45
  Khalila McCoy: Do you when you take those tests, did you ever feel like you know, you would know eventually that you didn't perform as they expected?
• 14:54
  Khalila McCoy: Was it ever like a kind of a down or two, like, oh man, like I'm not doing well?
• 14:58
  Khalila McCoy: Or was it more of a relief, like, oh good, they understand now and they can help me?
• 15:03
  Khalila McCoy: Where did you fall in that?
• 15:05
  Michelle Steiner: I think I kind of fell in very many uh all those places at once.
• 15:10
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 15:11
  Michelle Steiner: I can't or or excuse me, at one point I fell, I've fallen in all those different places.
• 15:16
  Michelle Steiner: When I was really young, I can just remember not feeling very smart.
• 15:20
  Michelle Steiner: That was the hard part.
• 15:21
  Michelle Steiner: My mom and dad, we would study for tests and spend a lot of long, cheerful homework sessions, and I would go in and I'd take a test and I wouldn't do well and I'd feel defeated.
• 15:30
  Michelle Steiner: But then I can also remember when I would get they they weren't a surprise to me.
• 15:34
  Michelle Steiner: Whenever I would, for example, uh, we would get standardized test scores.
• 15:39
  Michelle Steiner: I always knew that the the bar was going to be really uh bigger in English and then it was gonna be really little in in math.
• 15:47
  Michelle Steiner: And I thought, okay, I I understand that.
• 15:49
  Michelle Steiner: But it was hard when I was young because I thought, well, what is wrong with me?
• 15:54
  Michelle Steiner: And then as an adult, I I started to realize I mean, I went through that time where it was still really hard, but then I started to figure out, okay, that's just a part of who I am.
• 16:07
  Khalila McCoy: Yes.
• 16:08
  Michelle Steiner: And it's one small part of me.
• 16:10
  Michelle Steiner: And I start that also influenced the kind of classes that I took.
• 16:14
  Michelle Steiner: And I I found out if if you didn't put math in front of me or you gave me a group project or a paper to write, I had I had much better scores than the test.
• 16:25
  Michelle Steiner: And that was in all areas in my in school too.
• 16:29
  Michelle Steiner: I always did a lot better with that.
• 16:32
  Michelle Steiner: And I also sometimes felt relief because I whenever they found out what was going on, it was hard at first because I there was just so much emphasis on what I couldn't do.
• 16:44
  Michelle Steiner: But looking back on that, I I didn't know I had hand dexterity issues.
• 16:50
  Michelle Steiner: I didn't know that that was really even a thing.
• 16:53
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 16:53
  Michelle Steiner: And I can also remember how it did influence in a certain way, too.
• 16:57
  Michelle Steiner: And when I was in college, when I was going to take my math course, and I thought, okay, I'm I'm in a program that has the least amount of math and science possible.
• 17:04
  Michelle Steiner: And I had a choice.
• 17:05
  Michelle Steiner: It was either going to be a logics class or it was going to be like an uh intro to algebra or something really along those lines.
• 17:14
  Michelle Steiner: And I didn't know what I was going to do.
• 17:16
  Michelle Steiner: And I was sitting on campus one day, and this guy came up.
• 17:19
  Michelle Steiner: There was a chess board, and he goes, Do you want to play chess?
• 17:22
  Michelle Steiner: I said, Sure.
• 17:23
  Michelle Steiner: And we had the shortest chess game in history, which, spoiler alert, I lost.
• 17:28
  Michelle Steiner: And I looked at him and I said, Yeah, I have a math disability and I got to take a math class, and I don't know what I should take, whether I should take this intro to logic or should I should take an algebra class.
• 17:39
  Michelle Steiner: And he looked at me and goes, Well, I'm in the math department, and I think you really should take the intro to logic because a lot of the guys in my department are very nice.
• 17:47
  Khalila McCoy: Aw.
• 17:48
  Michelle Steiner: And I had the most understanding professor for that intro to logics class.
• 17:52
  Michelle Steiner: I was not, I did not do well at all.
• 17:54
  Michelle Steiner: But he knew I was trying and doing everything I could do.
• 17:58
  Michelle Steiner: And I he passed me along, and all I needed to do was get a D, and that's that that's satisfied with the degree I was getting.
• 18:06
  Khalila McCoy: What was your degree in?
• 18:08
  Michelle Steiner: Um community programming for Americans with disabilities.
• 18:12
  Michelle Steiner: And then I had at community college, I was able to get a math waiver, and that was at an associates in early childhood education.
• 18:20
  Khalila McCoy: Okay, nice.
• 18:21
  Khalila McCoy: Um so before we kind of talk about your degree, let's go back to your writing.
• 18:27
  Khalila McCoy: What type of writing do you do?
• 18:30
  Michelle Steiner: I do a lot of creative nonfiction and I do a lot of uh with the nature metaphors.
• 18:35
  Michelle Steiner: So I might talk about the process of accepting my disabilities like a flower that's on blooming, or the process a transformation that a butterfly goes through, or a long season of winter with having a disability that we certainly had this year.
• 18:50
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 18:51
  Khalila McCoy: When you were younger, did you write about your disability as well, or was it something that you didn't really want to talk about and acknowledge?
• 18:59
  Michelle Steiner: I wrote about it a little bit, but for the longest time I wrote really bad poetry.
• 19:04
  Michelle Steiner: And some other, like, I thought I was gonna be a children's book writer.
• 19:09
  Michelle Steiner: Uh-huh.
• 19:09
  Michelle Steiner: And I stole a fiction, and uh that just hasn't worked out in my favor.
• 19:14
  Khalila McCoy: So is that still a goal of yours?
• 19:19
  Michelle Steiner: I do have a children's book idea um story about dyskalculea that I would love to get published because I think that's a good thing for for young children to be able to understand that.
• 19:30
  Michelle Steiner: Because there really is not a lot of books on it.
• 19:33
  Khalila McCoy: No, there's not.
• 19:34
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, that would be great for educators as well.
• 19:38
  Khalila McCoy: When you like what I read in the beginning, you talked about how people told you you could not go to college.
• 19:45
  Khalila McCoy: What was that conversation?
• 19:48
  Khalila McCoy: Like, was it just because you're not good at math, they discount they this, you know, discounted everything else that you were capable of doing, or was it more of the like the driving and things like that?
• 19:58
  Michelle Steiner: It was more the math.
• 20:00
  Michelle Steiner: I can remember that's I heard that was when I was in high school with my learning support teacher.
• 20:05
  Michelle Steiner: And she didn't think I could handle it.
• 20:07
  Michelle Steiner: She said, You could probably write the bestseller, but you're probably not going to be able to go to college.
• 20:11
  Michelle Steiner: And I can just remember really and she wanted me to go to a trade school.
• 20:17
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 20:17
  Michelle Steiner: And the the funny thing is, when I look back on that, the trade school would have been harder than a college class.
• 20:24
  Khalila McCoy: Right, with using your hands and things like that.
• 20:26
  Michelle Steiner: Yeah, I I certainly nobody would want me to cut their hair or to dye it.
• 20:31
  Michelle Steiner: I don't think I could definitely uh drive an ambulance or a cop car with driving.
• 20:37
  Michelle Steiner: Cooking involves math.
• 20:39
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, it's a lot of things that I just didn't think that I it didn't have if they had an early childhood program, I might have considered that.
• 20:48
  Michelle Steiner: That would have just given me a good start, but they didn't have that.
• 20:52
  Michelle Steiner: So what I did was I just thought, okay, I'm gonna go to community college, and I got connected with office for vocational rehabilitation.
• 21:00
  Michelle Steiner: And one of their uh stipulations was you had to get tested for having a disability all over again.
• 21:06
  Michelle Steiner: And that's when I had a psychiatrist who told me you're not going, most likely not going to go beyond community college because I scored low in every area, not just math.
• 21:16
  Michelle Steiner: And that was really discouraging because I thought, well, I'd like to get my bachelor's degree someday.
• 21:21
  Michelle Steiner: Maybe not now, but I I knew I wanted to do that.
• 21:24
  Michelle Steiner: And even when I went after, because I wanted to ride uh paratransit that's for people with disabilities because they can't drive, I had to uh get evaluated again.
• 21:35
  Michelle Steiner: And I they were asking me questions like, oh, what do you want to do with your life?
• 21:38
  Michelle Steiner: So I put down, oh yeah, I want to write news articles, I want to uh do photography, I want to do all these things.
• 21:45
  Michelle Steiner: And they said, Well, based upon her scores, we're just not even gonna consider that because she can't, it would be beyond her capabilities.
• 21:52
  Michelle Steiner: And I just find that so funny that I was able to get things published and I was um I have a blog and I and and I'm able to do those things.
• 22:02
  Khalila McCoy: Yes.
• 22:02
  Michelle Steiner: And the area that my disability in is in math, um, handwriting, and um, you know, some hands work and the visual perception.
• 22:11
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 22:12
  Khalila McCoy: Was when they told you that and you decided to kind of go through with going to college and doing your best, was it kind of like this, I'm gonna show you that I can do this, or did you just kind of go through it hoping that it would work out?
• 22:28
  Michelle Steiner: I went through it hoping it would work out.
• 22:30
  Michelle Steiner: I was really discouraged for a lot of years.
• 22:32
  Khalila McCoy: I'm sorry to hear that.
• 22:34
  Michelle Steiner: Yeah.
• 22:34
  Michelle Steiner: It was it was those were hard years because it there was just such a stigma.
• 22:39
  Michelle Steiner: I can remember I asked a professor, do we can I use a calculator?
• 22:44
  Michelle Steiner: And she told me, no.
• 22:46
  Michelle Steiner: Oh no, we use our brains in this class, not calculators.
• 22:48
  Michelle Steiner: I had an advisor who told me I was going to have limited job choices when I was done because I would not know how much paper to give to children when we were doing an art project.
• 23:00
  Michelle Steiner: And I just want to know that this stuff does happen, but I'm able to know how to deal with it.
• 23:07
  Michelle Steiner: And but at that age, I didn't know how to deal with a lot of that.
• 23:10
  Michelle Steiner: So it was harder.
• 23:12
  Michelle Steiner: But when I was able to uh graduate, I moved out on my own and I went back to school, that's when I had that confidence.
• 23:21
  Michelle Steiner: And I knew that I could do it.
• 23:24
  Michelle Steiner: And I I mean I still was afraid.
• 23:26
  Michelle Steiner: I still had to get over a lot of that.
• 23:28
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, the math definitely loomed.
• 23:30
  Michelle Steiner: But once we got past the math and I was doing well in my classes, I mean, it it was a lot better.
• 23:36
  Michelle Steiner: I used all the accommodations.
• 23:38
  Michelle Steiner: I advocated for myself, and I made Dean's list for a semester.
• 23:42
  Khalila McCoy: So I mean Yeah, so you definitely have the capabilities.
• 23:48
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 23:50
  Khalila McCoy: Talk to us about photography, because I know you talked about not being able to hold things in your hand.
• 23:54
  Khalila McCoy: How do you do that?
• 23:57
  Michelle Steiner: I found that using my phone is really an easy way for me to do that.
• 24:01
  Michelle Steiner: Okay.
• 24:01
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, I can do it.
• 24:03
  Michelle Steiner: And sometimes it's a little bit of patience to have things go into focus.
• 24:07
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 24:07
  Michelle Steiner: But I can do that.
• 24:08
  Michelle Steiner: And that sometimes that's just good practice.
• 24:10
  Michelle Steiner: And if my hand gets tired, then I'm I'm able to just kind of relax and be like, all right, you know, we can we can move on and then we can always come back to that.
• 24:19
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 24:20
  Khalila McCoy: And you've lived with this.
• 24:21
  Khalila McCoy: You said since you were in kindergarten, at least it's been diagnosed, and you talked about having patience.
• 24:26
  Khalila McCoy: Is it you having patience with yourself?
• 24:28
  Khalila McCoy: Do you still get frustrated sometimes?
• 24:30
  Khalila McCoy: Or is it more the people you're around just, you know, educating them on what you're going through and asking them for that patience?
• 24:37
  Michelle Steiner: Aaron Powell It's it's a mixture of both.
• 24:39
  Michelle Steiner: But I've learned while I have, I mean, I'm much more positive.
• 24:43
  Michelle Steiner: I do have my days where I wish it wasn't so hard.
• 24:46
  Michelle Steiner: I've sometimes it is difficult.
• 24:49
  Michelle Steiner: And but I've learned how to work with that.
• 24:51
  Michelle Steiner: And sometimes we just have to, we've I found ways to cope and to be able to learn know what I need to do.
• 25:00
  Michelle Steiner: And it's just better to do those things and then empower me to be able to do that.
• 25:06
  Michelle Steiner: But I also find it is hard for other people, though, sometimes to have patience with others.
• 25:11
  Michelle Steiner: Right.
• 25:11
  Michelle Steiner: Because a lot of times people think, oh, I can fix you.
• 25:15
  Michelle Steiner: All you need to do is you need this education program, or I I'm telling you how to do this, and I have to explain that, and people can't see my disability.
• 25:24
  Michelle Steiner: So I think that that can be really difficult as well.
• 25:28
  Khalila McCoy: You talked about something still being difficult.
• 25:31
  Khalila McCoy: Do you mind sharing what's something that's still difficult for you today?
• 25:34
  Khalila McCoy: And then how do you cope?
• 25:37
  Khalila McCoy: How do you manage that?
• 25:39
  Michelle Steiner: Sometimes it can be really hard for me, like with budgeting.
• 25:42
  Michelle Steiner: That can be hard, like knowing how much money I'm spending.
• 25:45
  Michelle Steiner: If you give me a credit card or a debit card, that's too abstract.
• 25:48
  Michelle Steiner: But if you give me cash, I can kind of get a range of what I'm spending.
• 25:52
  Michelle Steiner: It's not perfect, but it it helps with that.
• 25:55
  Michelle Steiner: Sometimes it can not even necessarily be math, but process directions.
• 26:01
  Michelle Steiner: Okay.
• 26:01
  Michelle Steiner: What somebody wants me to do.
• 26:04
  Michelle Steiner: And I I think that that that can be really hard.
• 26:07
  Michelle Steiner: Sometimes I might have my hands full and I'm trying to open the door up.
• 26:10
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, that that can be difficult.
• 26:13
  Michelle Steiner: And that I think that can those things are hard.
• 26:17
  Michelle Steiner: And sometimes I wish that was, you know, easier.
• 26:20
  Michelle Steiner: Or uh just trying to like w manage with having one.
• 26:24
  Michelle Steiner: Or try um, and it's just we just have to kind of go through and we have a day like that, and we just have to kind of give ourselves that grace and figure out what does work.
• 26:34
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 26:35
  Khalila McCoy: I like that.
• 26:36
  Khalila McCoy: You're giving yourself that grace.
• 26:38
  Khalila McCoy: I think all of us have to remember that from time to time.
• 26:41
  Khalila McCoy: Like we all have something that we're struggling with.
• 26:43
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 26:44
  Khalila McCoy: To slow down, give yourself grace and kind of work through that.
• 26:48
  Michelle Steiner: Yes.
• 26:49
  Khalila McCoy: So tell us about some of the jobs that you have had that have been successful and the things that are have brought you joy.
• 26:58
  Michelle Steiner: I have been working as a paraeducator for about 14 years, and I find it so rewarding to work with students in the classroom, especially students who struggle uh with having a disability.
• 27:09
  Michelle Steiner: I know what that's like for many of them.
• 27:13
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 27:13
  Michelle Steiner: And I I think that that creates that empathy.
• 27:16
  Michelle Steiner: And all the kids know I can help you with anything except for math.
• 27:20
  Michelle Steiner: Or they'll soon find out.
• 27:23
  Khalila McCoy: Right.
• 27:24
  Michelle Steiner: So I think that that working with kids, especially the ones with having a disability, that has just brought me uh a lot of joy in my life.
• 27:32
  Khalila McCoy: What's the age range that you work with?
• 27:35
  Michelle Steiner: I work this year with seventh graders.
• 27:37
  Michelle Steiner: So yes.
• 27:39
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 27:40
  Khalila McCoy: What are some things that you say to encourage them, especially like you said, as somebody who's been where they are?
• 27:46
  Michelle Steiner: I will tell them, I oftentimes like hear me a recording of myself.
• 27:50
  Michelle Steiner: I hate my learning disability.
• 27:51
  Michelle Steiner: I wish I wasn't in this class, and I I feel really stupid.
• 27:55
  Michelle Steiner: And I get that chance to say, you're not dumbed, you're not stupid, you're you are smart and you're capable.
• 28:01
  Michelle Steiner: And I get to tell them I, you know, I know this can be difficult, but this is, I mean, this class is there for you, and I can show you how to, and I also show them how to advocate for themselves.
• 28:12
  Michelle Steiner: So if they have a question, I make them raise their hand, I will and ask the question.
• 28:17
  Michelle Steiner: I will go up with them if they gotta talk to the teacher and ask that question, but I really want them to be the ones speaking up for themselves because for so many of my students, they're going to, they'll all one day leave me, but for a lot of them, their disabilities are still going to be there.
• 28:33
  Michelle Steiner: So it's real important they get their skills now.
• 28:37
  Khalila McCoy: I like that.
• 28:38
  Khalila McCoy: What is something you would want to say to teachers for them to remember?
• 28:42
  Khalila McCoy: Because even when you were sharing earlier about like asking your teacher if you could use a calculator.
• 28:47
  Khalila McCoy: And I will be honest, I've said it before, like, hey, nope, no calculators today.
• 28:50
  Khalila McCoy: We're only using our brains today.
• 28:52
  Khalila McCoy: Never thinking that that could possibly hurt someone's feelings or be detrimental to somebody.
• 28:57
  Khalila McCoy: I'm thinking of as like, hey, you got this big, you know, big smart brain.
• 29:00
  Khalila McCoy: Let's use that today.
• 29:01
  Khalila McCoy: Let's not rely on this.
• 29:03
  Khalila McCoy: But like you said, that could be hurtful.
• 29:05
  Khalila McCoy: I'm sure the teacher who said that to you did not intend that.
• 29:09
  Khalila McCoy: So, what would you say to teachers to think about and remember?
• 29:14
  Michelle Steiner: I would say that the your students are really trying.
• 29:17
  Michelle Steiner: And even though it doesn't seem like that, maybe sometimes I really think, at least I know with myself, I was really trying, and not to give up on them and to think about different ways and think how it can work out.
• 29:28
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 29:29
  Michelle Steiner: And sometimes that is appropriate to use a calculator, other times that that that is not, and that's okay too.
• 29:36
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, some sometimes teachers do need to know what somebody knows and what what they don't know.
• 29:42
  Michelle Steiner: And I mean, there there is a there is that time and that place for that.
• 29:46
  Michelle Steiner: But there's other times maybe using a calculator could be something that can be a tool.
• 29:51
  Michelle Steiner: And I mean, even if I use one, there's still that chance I I will get it wrong because I don't understand the steps.
• 29:59
  Michelle Steiner: So, and I think it's reteaching where they need to to have that information and it's making that customized plan.
• 30:06
  Michelle Steiner: I just wish more people under teachers understood that.
• 30:10
  Michelle Steiner: I can remember whenever I was in my last year of middle school and we were getting ready to move up to the senior high, and I was in a learning support math class.
• 30:19
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 30:20
  Michelle Steiner: And the teacher wanted everybody to be on grade level.
• 30:23
  Michelle Steiner: And I got and I was doing well until I got stuck on one area.
• 30:30
  Michelle Steiner: And rather than go back and try to reteach that area or see where I was stuck at, she just moved forward.
• 30:36
  Michelle Steiner: And she also said, Oh, there's no classes that are learning support at the senior high.
• 30:43
  Michelle Steiner: So you're just gonna have to take a basic math course.
• 30:46
  Michelle Steiner: And I just was worried all summer.
• 30:48
  Michelle Steiner: And I went there and it was no surprise that the teacher didn't know what to do with me, and it was a real struggle for me to be in the class.
• 30:56
  Michelle Steiner: And it turned out there was a learning support math.
• 31:00
  Michelle Steiner: And it's not to say that that teacher was always very understanding, but I knew that I had to, that's what I needed to do to get through all those years of math.
• 31:10
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 31:11
  Khalila McCoy: At what point in your life did you find that you embraced your disability and you're like, this is who I am, I'm gonna do my best, and I'm going to succeed because that's who I am.
• 31:24
  Michelle Steiner: I think when I was 30, that's when I really embraced it because I was graduating from college and I thought, I used to think, oh, once I'm uh, you know, I'll have success if I can just get rid of this disability.
• 31:36
  Michelle Steiner: And when I graduated from university, I had a bachelor's degree, I had success, but I still had a disability, and I thought it's okay.
• 31:45
  Michelle Steiner: It's really all right if I still have that disability and I can move forward.
• 31:50
  Michelle Steiner: And it was that process of real just accepting that this is just a part of me and part of my life, and it's it's who I am.
• 31:58
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 31:59
  Khalila McCoy: I like that.
• 32:00
  Khalila McCoy: I think like we talked about before, there are things that all of us have to kind of overcome and think through.
• 32:07
  Khalila McCoy: And so it's inspiring to see somebody who has decided like, I'm not gonna let this, you know, count me out at all.
• 32:15
  Khalila McCoy: What is something, what's a goal of yours that you're working on currently?
• 32:22
  Michelle Steiner: One of the things I I'm in a disability program where we're doing disability policy.
• 32:27
  Michelle Steiner: So that's one of the things that I I'm working on with trying to um help to work to pass bills uh with with disabilities.
• 32:36
  Michelle Steiner: So that's one of my goals.
• 32:37
  Khalila McCoy: Excellent.
• 32:38
  Michelle Steiner: I'm also writing, I I have a book.
• 32:41
  Michelle Steiner: I I need to get out eventually too, about uh a memoir of my life and my and my story with with um having a disability.
• 32:50
  Khalila McCoy: Okay.
• 32:50
  Khalila McCoy: Why do you find it so important to share your story?
• 32:55
  Michelle Steiner: Because I feel like this can really help other people to be able to help somebody else out that can be maybe they feel discouraged.
• 33:03
  Michelle Steiner: Because I can remember whenever I was growing up, I didn't know anybody that uh had a learning disability that was female.
• 33:11
  Michelle Steiner: It was all for uh men, and they all had reading disabilities.
• 33:15
  Michelle Steiner: So I had no one that I could really relate to.
• 33:18
  Michelle Steiner: And I think I want to put this out there that there are people that do have disabilities uh that uh are not reading based and that uh just to encourage people to be able to go out and chase whatever dream you want to do.
• 33:34
  Michelle Steiner: And it may look different than my path, and that's okay too.
• 33:38
  Michelle Steiner: But I want people with disabilities to go out and to be able to find their path in life and have success.
• 33:46
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 33:46
  Khalila McCoy: So thinking about the listeners that we have, right?
• 33:51
  Khalila McCoy: We have a wide range of listeners, some with disabilities, some without, some are who are still just learning about, you know, somebody might never may never have heard of this disability before.
• 34:00
  Khalila McCoy: What would you say to that range of people that would encourage them to continue as they rise?
• 34:08
  Michelle Steiner: I would tell, I would just tell them for the people that have disabilities that success doesn't always come in the package that we expect.
• 34:15
  Michelle Steiner: Sometimes it comes in something even better.
• 34:17
  Michelle Steiner: And for people who maybe don't are aren't aware of uh math learning disabilities or learning disabilities in general, to please believe people when they say that they have one.
• 34:28
  Michelle Steiner: This isn't about being pretending.
• 34:31
  Michelle Steiner: It's not about it um being unmotivated, it's not about a society that's lazy, it's about people that have disabilities.
• 34:39
  Michelle Steiner: We just can't see what they are, but they they are real.
• 34:43
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 34:44
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, that's great.
• 34:45
  Khalila McCoy: Real quick, I know you talked about like the laws that you are trying to work about um change.
• 34:51
  Khalila McCoy: What are some of the things that you are hoping to bring about?
• 34:57
  Michelle Steiner: Sure.
• 34:57
  Michelle Steiner: One of the groups I signed up for, well, the group I signed up for was uh transition services for students that are getting ready to graduate from high school.
• 35:07
  Michelle Steiner: I'm really I'm not sure what bills are coming up uh, but what I want to do is I really want to improve transition services for students because we have students that are coming out of high school with disabilities and they're coming into a world that is not made for them, and there's not a lot of services for adults with disabilities.
• 35:31
  Michelle Steiner: And our students sometimes get lost whenever they leave school.
• 35:36
  Michelle Steiner: There's not a parent necessarily that's there to make sure that they're doing that.
• 35:42
  Michelle Steiner: There is not an IEP, it tr it transitions over to a 504 plan, or actually it goes over to like with ADA if they want to be able to use some of those services.
• 35:51
  Michelle Steiner: It's okay or an individualized service plan at that point.
• 35:55
  Michelle Steiner: So sometimes we might have kids that just really fall through the cracks, and people have hard to have a hard time with going to school and may uh getting a job and maintaining employment.
• 36:08
  Michelle Steiner: It's only 10% of people with disabilities are employed.
• 36:11
  Michelle Steiner: So I think that there's a lot of things that need to happen that can prepare somebody for success on the world outside of school.
• 36:19
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 36:20
  Khalila McCoy: So are you guys writing those laws and like doing all that research and then presenting it to who are you presenting it to?
• 36:29
  Michelle Steiner: We're working with uh the state of in Pennsylvania, we'll uh at the Capitol, and we're going to be in a group, and I'm not sure exactly what my role will be, and we'll meet later in the month to kind of talk about that.
• 36:43
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 36:44
  Michelle Steiner: Um some people are gonna tell personal stories, others are going to do other tasks, but we do get that chance to give that advocacy message out there or to speak to the representatives and for a few minutes, but that still gives that opportunity to be able to go out and speak about important issues.
• 37:03
  Michelle Steiner: And transitions is just one of them.
• 37:05
  Michelle Steiner: There's a lot of other issues that people are gonna be in groups talking about.
• 37:09
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah, I love that.
• 37:10
  Khalila McCoy: I love that you're taking your story and sharing it and trying to be a voice for other people.
• 37:16
  Khalila McCoy: Um and like you said, you've lived it, you understand it.
• 37:19
  Khalila McCoy: So I mean, if they don't listen to you, like who will they listen to?
• 37:23
  Khalila McCoy: And I'm sure there's a lot of people who are scared to step out and do that.
• 37:27
  Khalila McCoy: When you talked about, you know, only 10% of people with disabilities having jobs.
• 37:32
  Khalila McCoy: I did not realize that the numbers are so low.
• 37:36
  Michelle Steiner: Exactly.
• 37:37
  Michelle Steiner: Because it's hard to when they go into an employer.
• 37:40
  Michelle Steiner: Not every employer understands what somebody needs.
• 37:45
  Michelle Steiner: And sometimes people don't want to ask for accommodations because of the stigma.
• 37:49
  Michelle Steiner: And then sometimes I I even had trouble in the beginning with how to ask for them because that can be hard to know how to ask.
• 37:58
  Michelle Steiner: And I was not the greatest advocate for myself.
• 38:01
  Michelle Steiner: And there it's it's a real art to being able to know how to do that.
• 38:06
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 38:06
  Khalila McCoy: If somebody listening wants to support, you know, either, you know, get involved in the political side of it or the law side, or even just supporting people in their community, what would you say?
• 38:21
  Khalila McCoy: Let's start with the easiest.
• 38:22
  Khalila McCoy: Maybe the easiest way someone could get involved in supporting the community with disabilities and then maybe a more committed role that they could take.
• 38:32
  Michelle Steiner: One of the easiest ways that people can do it with in terms of politics is if you know about a bill or you know about uh or a law that somebody's trying to pass with disabilities or something that's that that's going on that you want to see changed or you want to help somebody with, you can call one of your representatives that can do that.
• 38:53
  Michelle Steiner: That that's one of the greatest things to do.
• 38:56
  Michelle Steiner: And there's also formal programs of that that people can go through where you have that training and uh you have that leadership where you can learn about having a direct role and learning more about the disability um rights movement is is a big one, and just learning about just different programs, different kinds of disabilities too.
• 39:18
  Michelle Steiner: I mean, there's there is a lot of ways, but one thing somebody could definitely do is have that understanding.
• 39:25
  Michelle Steiner: And I think that goes through that talking and and being communicating those too.
• 39:30
  Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
• 39:31
  Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
• 39:32
  Khalila McCoy: Is there anything else that you want to make sure that you share with us today?
• 39:38
  Michelle Steiner: I just would love to tell people that success doesn't often come in the package that we expect, but sometimes it comes in something even better.
• 39:46
  Khalila McCoy: Yes.
• 39:46
  Khalila McCoy: Well, Michelle, I really want to thank you for your time today and for sharing everything and for everything that you're doing, not just, you know, in your own world, but for everybody out there who needs that voice and who might not know how to be their own voice.
• 40:01
  Khalila McCoy: So thank you for your passion.
• 40:03
  Khalila McCoy: And I'm gonna be looking for your book coming out.
• 40:07
  Khalila McCoy: I'm excited for all you'll do in the future.
• 40:10
  Khalila McCoy: I titled this episode Beyond Her Capabilities, echoing something that someone told Michelle, but in the end, she truly did go beyond what others and even herself at times believed she was capable of.
• 40:27
  Khalila McCoy: Michelle reminded us that we have to chase the dreams placed within us.
• 40:32
  Khalila McCoy: There will be moments in everyone's life where a goal feels out of reach.
• 40:36
  Khalila McCoy: That's human.
• 40:37
  Khalila McCoy: It will happen.
• 40:39
  Khalila McCoy: I want to acknowledge that, and I hope you know that you're not the only one who feels that way.
• 40:44
  Khalila McCoy: But I also hope Michelle inspires you to not stay in that place of discouragement, to push, to stretch, and to fight for the dream and the goal that you carry.
• 40:55
  Khalila McCoy: And if that dream shifts or evolves along the way, that's okay.
• 40:59
  Khalila McCoy: Keep going.
• 41:00
  Khalila McCoy: Keep going and find your people.
• 41:03
  Khalila McCoy: Michelle's story began to shift when someone finally noticed her strengths, and then again when she found a community that embraced her, people who shared her passions, cared for her, and supported her even when her needs looked different from theirs.
• 41:17
  Khalila McCoy: We've said it often in the show, we need each other.
• 41:21
  Khalila McCoy: We need community, and patience and kindness go a long way.
• 41:26
  Khalila McCoy: I also found Michelle's work around disability and policy really compelling.
• 41:31
  Khalila McCoy: If you were here for episodes 25 and 26, our guests talked about having autism and other neurodivergencies and similarly shared that it felt like they are constantly navigating a world that was not designed with them in mind.
• 41:45
  Khalila McCoy: So, my question is within the realm of disabilities, how do we create a more equitable world?
• 41:53
  Khalila McCoy: Are we moving in the right direction?
• 41:56
  Khalila McCoy: What still needs to be done?
• 41:58
  Khalila McCoy: What can we, you and I, do about it?
• 42:01
  Khalila McCoy: What are we willing to do about it?
• 42:04
  Khalila McCoy: I think these are really good questions worth sitting with.
• 42:08
  Khalila McCoy: I want to thank Michelle for sharing her story with us.
• 42:13
  Khalila McCoy: If you've been with me for a while, you know people are sharing deeply personal things on the show.
• 42:19
  Khalila McCoy: And even though they volunteered to do it, it's not always easy.
• 42:22
  Khalila McCoy: I've had real candid conversations and tears that have been shed after the recording stops and we keep talking.
• 42:30
  Khalila McCoy: These are real people with real stories, and I hope as you listen, you never forget that.
• 42:36
  Khalila McCoy: I hope you use what you've learned here to be a light in your community.
• 42:40
  Khalila McCoy: And know that if you are looking for light, you belong here with us.
• 42:45
  Khalila McCoy: So thank you.
• 42:46
  Khalila McCoy: Thank you for being here.
• 42:47
  Khalila McCoy: And you guys, next week is the final week of our back to school series, and I don't want you to miss it, so make sure you mark your calendar.
• 42:55
  Khalila McCoy: And as you move through the rest of your day, I hope you take a moment to listen a little louder to yourself, to the people you love, and to the things that connect us in ways we sometimes forget to notice.
• 43:08
  Khalila McCoy: I'll meet you back here next time.
• 43:10
  Khalila McCoy: See you bye.