Latest / Stephanomics / Rich Nations Face a Post-Covid World Without Cheap Migrant Labor

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Rich Nations Face a Post-Covid World Without Cheap Migrant Labor · Stephanomics

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I exam. I left Italy just when this crist's period started.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: The woman I was taking care of god sick and
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: was taken to hospital. She eventually died from the coronavirus
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I didn't have anything to do learn anymore. They
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: tested me and I was negative. I left. Hello and
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the COVID global
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: economy to you. And that was Mihaela Daniela, one of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of Romanians working abroad who've gone home
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: in the past few months. It's a reminder that stay
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: at home orders means something different if you're one and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: more than a hundred and fifty million my group workers
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: around the world whose home and family might be a
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: long way away. There are another group at the sharp
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: end of this COVID crisis. The sectors they work in, hospitality, construction,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: domestic service have been taking the brunt of the collapse
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: in the economy, and many, like Mikhaela, have headed for home.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Others stay in their adoptive countries but find themselves second
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: class citizens without access to government support and healthcare. Either way,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the COVID crisis for migrants is going to have big
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: economic effects for both their adopted country and the communities
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: they left behind. We're getting into a few different pieces
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: of that massive global story today. In Dubai in the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: United Arab Emirates, the population could fall ten percent this
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: year due to expat workers heading home. I'll be talking
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: to Bloomberg's Middle East economy reporter Abir abu Omar about
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: what that means for the Gulf economies economic model, where
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: foreign workers do nearly all the work. We'll also talk
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: about whether the many migrants still stuck in Dubai without
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: work are getting any help from the government. Then our
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: head to Singapore to talk through the economics of global
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: migrant flows with Bloomberg opinion columnist Dan Moss, also what
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: it means for countries like the Philippines to have the
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: flow of earnings from migrant workers suddenly dry up. But
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: first let's hear a bit more about that Romanian story
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: from one of the people who helps run our economics
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and government coverage in Central and Eastern Europe, Andrew Dagny. Andrew,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: tell me a bit more about this story. How many
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: migrants are we talking about that have been going home
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: to Central and Eastern European countries. The countries we looked
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: at specifically for this story were Romania, Ukraine, Serbia, and
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a little bit at Bulgaria. Romania had the biggest inflows.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: About one point three million people came back Ukraine that
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: the numbers there have always been a little bit difficult
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: to calculate, but there are several hundred thousand probably in
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Serbia were also talking a significant portion of the population.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I think, um six percent of the population, the fifth
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: of the workforce, about four thousand workers. Romania the populations
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: about twenty million people, so one point one point three
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: is obviously a significant addition to that. The Serbs were
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: even more that was that was six percent of the population.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So it's it's a lot of people. Let's hear a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: bit more from Mihaila now, who was in Italy and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: then has come has come home my whole thing. I'll
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: ever return because living among strangers is hard. After nine years,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: my boys stayed with my mom all this time, and
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: this was the hardest thing I ever did, to live
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: far away from him. But we'll see what happens. It
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: would be great if I managed to stay. I need
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: to see if I managed to get a job here.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I hope I'll make it here in Romania. First of all,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: we managed totally differently with the money I made in Italy.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: My son now has a computer close. We managed to
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: renovate the house everything we need. I don't think I
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: would have managed to do all these things with the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: salaries here. But we'll see. People say things have changed
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in Romania as well. Let's see what happens in the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: next few months. We wait for now. So she sounds
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: like she might stay home now. The government's happy to
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: have all of these people coming back, has been their attitude.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: The circumstances are obviously not ideal. They would have preferred
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: these people if they were going to go abroad, that
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: they worked over there, they studied over there, and they
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: brought back the skills and education that they garnered in
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Western Europe. But at the same time, they've been struggling,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: like most of use in Europe, with acute labor shortages
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: for several years now. So these workers are are welcome.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: For the short term they will they will obviously be
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: boosting the unemployment numbers due to the lockdown and the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: extended effects of that. But once the economy start to
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: start to open up again and start to grow. Eastern
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Europe has generally been a much faster growing region than
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Western Europe. Then the government's hoped to harness these people
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: who have come back, or at least a share of them,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and use them to build future growth. And I guess
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: one of the big differences with this crisis is it
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: is affecting everywhere. I mean what we've seen in the past,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: particularly in Europe actually, where countries have faced a deep recession.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I remember this and that the global financial crisis that
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: some of the countries in the in the Baltics saw
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: a massive outflow of workers when their economy shrank, which
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: helped sort of ease some of the burden on their economies.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: If everyone is being hit now at the same time,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get immigration as that kind of
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: safety valve. But I guess it's true. It seems to
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: be the case that these Central and Eastern European countries
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: so far have been hit less hard by COVID. Is
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: that right, Yes, that's also true. They were very fast
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: to lockdown and the that's only in terms of their
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: healthcare hit then it's been far, far, far less than
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: we saw in Western European countries. The economic hit is
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: in many cases similar. I think that the best performance
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: probably in the in the EU this year is going
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: to be the Polish contraction, which is I think to
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: be about between three and four percent. But obviously they're
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: all they're all taking a hit, yes, economically, and there's
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: going to be we're going to talk about this later
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: in the program, but there's a there's a there will
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: be a hole where all those remittances used to be.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I mean Mihailo and all the millions of people who
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: were in different parts of Western Europe sending back their salaries.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I mean that is an extra that is an extra
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: burden for these economies at a time when they are
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: dealing with a global recession, even if they're not facing
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: as much problem from COVID. Yes, that's also true. But
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: these governments are hoping that the flip side of the coin,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: the the increased labor force and the increased ability to
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: generate economic output, is going to It's going to counter that.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Ukraine had a record remittances of twelve billion dollars in
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, but it's also seen huge, huge outflows
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: of people who are I think more than a million
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: people alone in Poland and they've been a huge source
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: of labor for some of the Eastern European countries in
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the European Union. Ukraine's looking to certainly utilize these people.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: They have about three d thousands who returned during the lockdown.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: They're looking at a pretty large scale road construction projects
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: and they're offering discounted loans also so they can start
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: their own businesses. Well, it is. It's a fascinating side
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: of this when we have all these discussions about deglobalization,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: will people after this crisis be less inclined to send
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: production overseas while they start bringing jobs home? And actually
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: it's the people who are moving first. We have these
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: millions of people all coming home before we have a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: change in the global economy necessarily, Andrew, thanks very much,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: no problem than So that's one perspective on the global
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: migrant story. But now let's get a completely different angle
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  Speaker 1: on this. Talking to our Middle East economy reporter into
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I Abia abu Omar. Anyone who's been to Dubai or
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: other parts of the United Alberta Emirates knows these economies
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: are utterly dependent on migrant labor to build every apartment
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: block service every hotel room, but they don't. Those migrants,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: they don't get really any rights in return, and if
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: they lose their jobs, they're supposed to go immediately home.
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  Speaker 1: So what has been happening to them since the onset
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: of the COVID crisis? Hi, Stephanie, So yes, you're right.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I mean in Dubai, the foreign population, made up predominantly
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: from blue collar workers, makes up more than nine of
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: the city's population. Of that's a huge number. And then
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the UAE in general more than eighty percent of the
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  Speaker 1: population is made up of expats um. So since the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: start of since the start of this outbreak, these people
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  Speaker 1: have been suffering. These people have been asking to go
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  Speaker 1: back home because in part because companies are laying off
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: people with absolutely no safety net in place. So when
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: we talk about what is different for these people, it's
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  Speaker 1: the fact that in this part of the world, there
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: is no safety net. Uh, they don't get any kind
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  Speaker 1: of residents, they don't get any kind of remittance after
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: they're laid off, and so the only expectation for them
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: is to go back home. Now, with with the flights
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: being suspended and with no option to go back home,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: some of these people are living on as little as
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: two hundred dollars a month UM and waiting for you know,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: charity charities to get to get back to them with
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: with food, especially now that we're in Ramadan, which is
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a month where UH Muslims in the region fast UM.
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  Speaker 1: So these people are just literally living by what they
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  Speaker 1: can get day by day. And we've heard reports about
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: countries in Southeast Asia who are not even accepting UH
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  Speaker 1: they're people back UM. Hundreds of thousands of India and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Pakistanian workers, which make up the majority of the expat
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  Speaker 1: population here, have asked to go back home. UM and
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: India and Pakistan India mainly was saying that you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: we we can't accept we can't accept our people at
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: this moment. Are we going to see just this big
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: change in the structure of the Gulf economy is coming
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  Speaker 1: out of this if they if we don't know what
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: happens to these workers when this kind of crisis hit. Absolutely, absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: I think so. And that trend has been on the
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  Speaker 1: rise since the outbreak. UM gained momentum in the region.
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  Speaker 1: You have a lot of big officials who weren't necessarily
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: as vocal before coming out and saying a population shrinkage
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: could have a devastating economic implication for Gulf countries that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: are very much dependent on these expat workers. But when
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: you have an expat worker that you expect to work
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: and you don't and you don't necessarily provide um any
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: kind of stability, those people are going to leave. And
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it's and it's not just blue collar workers. It's it's teachers,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: it's engineers, it's it's businessmen who are thinking they can't
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: sustain this kind of living um if they're laid off.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And what's different about the model in the UAE or
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: in the Gulf in general, is that most of these
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: countries have taken a more monetary policy change, so there
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: has not been any kind of uh, direct fiscal um
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: spending for for these workers. So we don't see any
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: kind of wage guaranteeing, we don't see any kind of
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: fund that is dedicated for those people. Uh. The only
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: thing we're seeing is the central banks are are giving
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: lenders some kind of space to to ease their feast
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: is their interest rates, to to give better better interest
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: on loans. But that's not what the people are asking for,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: and that's definitely not what the people who are going
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: to leave, are asking for people want direct measures that
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: help them during this time, and we're not seeing that
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: happening yet. And I've noticed that that the economies that
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: were always they're so dependent on the oil revenues and
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: we've seen obviously the collapse in the oil prices, and
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: so countries like Saudi Arabia this week actually announcing big
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: cuts and spending, which is the opposite of what everyone
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: else is doing, because they didn't save in the good
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: times when the oil price was was higher. And I
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: guess the short term question is just what is going
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to happen to all these people. I mean, there's such
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: a large number of people who sound like they are
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: trapped in the region. And the support that government is offering.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I noticed when they are giving any help to workers
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: or companies, it's all for citizens, much more than for
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: for others. Are you starting to see these migrants on
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the street, what's going to happen to them? What those
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: people want is some kind of direct measure that would
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: help them at least get by, get by on a
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: daily basis. I mean, a lot of people on social
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: media pages are becoming more vocal about their struggle. A
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: lot of people on um. I heard that a lot
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: of people on on Reddit, a very popular website in
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the UAE, are asking for food and are asking for
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a place to stay. And in this kind of environment,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: you never saw, you never saw something like that happening before,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: but it is happening now. And so no government wants
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: to see people coming out going out of their of
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: their countries. But it looks like the model that the
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: government here is taking is more is more like, yes,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: we let those people leave. We won't compromise or sacrifice
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the system that we've been going by since but for decades.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And if they leave after this ends, we'll just get
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: more people, which is which is a more costly process
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: and in more time consuming process. But it doesn't look
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: like they're going to change the way they're they're thinking now.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: From what we're seeing now, I think that's that's fascinating.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: And I see that our Middle East economists, the ad
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: OLD was talking about the population of Dubai falling by
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: at least ten percent this year just with those UM
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: migrants leaving. But you don't think it's going to change
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: anytime soon. Aber Abu emma Ama, thank you so much
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: for joining us. Thank you so I'd like to bring
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: all of this together now with Dan Boss, Bloomberg opinion
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: columnist covering Asian economies out of Singapore and Dan there
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: are obviously two sides to this migrant story. There's the
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: countries that depend on large amounts of migrant labor to
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: keep their economies functioning, and then there's the communities back
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: home that rely on the money those migrant workers send back.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You think the COVID crisis has kind of blown a
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: hole through both economic models. The export and import of
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: labor STEPH is one of the biggest casualties of the
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: COVID induced downturn. There's a lot of attention has been
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: given to what's happening to semiconductor sales, what's happening on
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: container ships. The export of people that allows many wealthy
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: countries to basically function is at risk. Let's take two
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: economies in Asia that are equally dependent on this transaction.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: The seller of the labor, the Philippines, and the buyer
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of the labor Singapore. About a third of Singapore's workforce
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: is comprised of foreigners. The bulk of those foreigners live
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: in purpose built dormitories where conditions are cramped and where
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: living conditions have been getting some scrutiny. These are the
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: folks that enable Singapore, famous for its efficiency and its
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Swiss watch like economic life, to function. They drive the subways,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: they deliver the mail, they build the buildings. So imported
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: labor makes Singapore Singapore. For the Philippines, it provides a
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: huge source of foreign revenue. It supplements the very very
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: basic and inadequate safety there that the government there has developed.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: That broader model is at risk. You know, we obviously
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: have been talking in the developed economies about are we
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: now going to be more concerned about the rights for
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: gig worker as who have all been lost their jobs
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and have lost their rights in in response to the crisis.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Do you think we'll see that kind of change in
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: the attitude towards migrant workers coming out of this. Well,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the model as it's currently been constructed is in jeopardy.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Some form of this model will survive, probably with some
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: shading around the edges. And that is because both the
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: vent or country and the purchase a company in many ways,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: are equally dependent. You know, when I was in the
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Philippines meeting families of foreign workers in January, you know, stuff.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: They were all acutely aware of what the Saudi government
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: was up to in its efforts to reconfigure its economy.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: They knew more about what was going on with the
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: oil price that week than I did. That's how big
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the remittance thing is in their lives. The degree of
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: this may change, some of the contours may a time.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like too many people are winning on either
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: side of this labor transaction for it to vantage. But
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: in order to keep those those migrant workers coming to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: their economies, do you think the likes of Saudi Arabia
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: or indeed Singapore are going to have to rethink the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: idea that the moment you lose your job, you're out.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Among the things that are going to have to be rethought,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: how do these folks live and interact with the local
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: economies in their host nation. The majority of the surge
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: in infections that Singapore has seen have come from purpose
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: built dormitories where migrant workers who are employed in everything
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: from construction to food and beverage and other things live.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: It's highly conceivable that these kind of cramped accommodations will
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: just go and it would be a condition of employment
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: that the quality of the housing be raised. You know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: if you're stuck in a place because you're quarantined, you've
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: kind of got the worst of all world. Staff. You
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: can't go home and get a job at home because
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: you can't leave. This is not specific to Singapore. Few
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: our lines are flying from anywhere right now. But because
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of lockdown or circuit breaker conditions in the host country,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you're not on the job either. You're you're stuck. Sand
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: is in the gearbox of this critical component of the
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: global labor market. When you talk about countries like the
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Philippines where ten percent of the population any given time
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: might be working abroad, do you think that's fundamentally distorted
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the economy or started the way even the families work
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: in that country, having I know you've spent time there, Uh,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: no question. In January, I went down to a community
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: in an area called lagoon Er. It's about two hours
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: drive south of Manila. One municipality had the nickname Little Italy.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Why because so many people had gone to Italy there
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: to find jobs. So, you know, I visited with an
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: NGO worker. You know a number of families and these
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: houses were quite nice. There were multiple generations living there
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: under the one roof people were quite candid this standard
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: of living would be inconceivable without the remittances coming in.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I spent some time with one person who was the
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: child of what the Filipinos called o FW's overseas Filipino workers,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: absolutely ement that she and her husband, come hell or
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: high water, would not work in separate countries from each other.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Too much of the social fabric just gets afraid. And
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: you know, in times of downturn, someone who's working as
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: a made in Dubai or Hong Kong or Singapore might
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: be supporting an entire village, not just an extended family.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: You know the problems which be set domestic arrangements in
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the West. Families divorce, people become estranged from each other.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is rife in the overseas worker community. Ironically,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: an NGO who took me to some of these families,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: her husband spent eighteen years doing construction in Saudi Arabia,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: quite lucrative, supported the family. Just one problem, she found
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: out he had been unfaithful and that was the end
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: of that. Now, can all these things happen anywhere, any place,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: any time? Sure? What's not true is that any place, anywhere,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: any time an entire social fabric depends upon That's what's
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: at stake in domestic social and economic relationships in the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: labor vend or country. Dan Bos, thank you very much.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Steve, good to be here, Thanks for listening
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to Stephanomics. We'll be back next week with more on
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: how COVID nineteen is turning the global economy upside down.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Remember you could always find us on the Bloomberg terminal, website, app,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. For more news and
• 22:44
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• 22:49
  Speaker 1: episode was produced by Magnus Hendrickson, with special thanks to
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Mihaela Danela, Andrew Timu, Andrea Dodik, Andrew Langley, Abir Abu Omar,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and Dan Moss. Scott Lamm is the executive producer of
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Stephanomics and the head of Bloomberg podcast is Francesco Levy
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: m H