Latest / Real Investor Radio Podcast / Ep. 96 | Noah Parks on How AI Is Rewriting Real Estate Marketing & More Game-Changing Insights

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Ep. 96 | Noah Parks on How AI Is Rewriting Real Estate Marketing & More Game-Changing Insights · Real Investor Radio Podcast

• Craig Fuhr (00:12) Hey, welcome back to real investor radio. I'm Craig Fuhr joined again by Jack Bevier Jack it appears. It appears that the bug. That you that was on you last week is now on me. I'm sitting here in the middle of August in Maryland in our podcast studio, which is usually pretty cold. Got my coat on, got a little got a little hoodie on here, so we're going to power through. Which is going to be a players here, Jack and get right in. with our podcast guests. So but how are you today, Jack BeVier (00:43) doing great, man. I'm feeling fantastic. I'll let you know that there's light at the end of the tunnel. It's two, three day thing. Craig Fuhr (00:48) That's all I mean, I needed that hope. So Jack, a lot of our podcast guests who come on, it feels like either you and I, you or I have some sort of background with them. Today's guests we do not. So I cobbled together a quick intro for Mr. Parks. Today's guest is Noah Parks. Noah is a way to the early game internet pioneer who launched his first e-commerce site in 1996. For those of you who don't know that was actually two years before Google even existed. And since then, guys had a pretty cool life traveling the world speaking, speaking to businesses about digital strategy, and now serves as the senior marketing executive, you'll correct me if I'm wrong on that with Bateman Collective, where he's helped generate over $150 million in resume, I'm sorry, in revenue for his clients. And they have a very bold goal jack of getting to 1 billion. So can't wait to jump in and really talk about Noah, what the company does now. And what you guys are thinking in terms of AI, this is going to be a very interesting conversation for real estate investors who really know how important it is to build a marketing machine. I've always said that there's basically three legs to the stool of real estate investing. You've got, you know, marketing and acquisitions and dispositions. You've got capital and you've got contractors. If you can figure out those three things and really become good at them, chances are you're going to have a pretty successful real estate company. So no, welcome to the show, man. Really looking forward to a great conversation. Noah Parks (02:22) It's great to be here. Yeah, thank you so much. ⁓ Craig Fuhr (02:26) And I nailed that, Jack. I totally nailed that intro. All right. Noah Parks (02:30) You left out the fact that I have 10 kids I know of. Yeah. Craig Fuhr (02:33) Oh, that was something I was planning on bringing up later. But thanks for ruining. Yeah, thank you. But yeah, no, congratulations, man. So Noah lives in Utah, and does have 10 kids. And I think that's awesome. So any. By the way, any more any more coming? Are we done at 10? Or are or could there be more coming? Noah Parks (02:37) ⁓ okay. No worries. Those two aren't related though, necessarily. Although I have started telling people, Jack BeVier (02:52) Yep. Noah Parks (02:55) The doctor says I'm done, so. Craig Fuhr (02:57) All right. Let's move on. All right, man. So briefly, tell us what Bateman Collective does. You can fill us in on your history with them and others as well. yeah, tell us where let's let's use that as a jumping off point. Noah Parks (03:11) Yeah, so Brandon Bateman started the company seven years ago. Kind of fell. Bass backwards, if you will, into REI, but. When he and I met five years ago coming up on, I guess five years ago. He's probably one of the smartest human beings I've ever met in my life. He's easily in the top five. ⁓ Absolutely. Absolute genius. And. Craig Fuhr (03:32) Well, he hasn't met Jack Bavir. So. Noah Parks (03:36) You know, like you alluded to, I've been doing this for a very, very long time. And when we discussed his vision for REI and what he wanted to do with PPC and Facebook and SEO for this industry, I just, caught the vision and was a hundred percent on board. so it's kind of funny because he, he'll tease me about My first e-commerce website being in 1996 when he was six months old is when I launched that website. And so he kind of teases me, but I've also got a golden parachute because he's violated many HR rules. So we're good. Craig Fuhr (04:03) There you go. Perfect. Perfect. Jack BeVier (04:15) That is a key. is key to a good partnership is leverage, mutual leverage, mutual assured destruction. Right. Noah Parks (04:22) That's right. That's right. So yeah, I love that you pointed out that we have a, you know, we've generated right around 150 million worth of revenue in this space. So we only focus on REI or motivated seller lead generation. But our company goal is to generate a billion dollars worth of revenue for our clients. And it's a goal that we track every single month in our monthly sync. And so it's very, very important to us. Craig Fuhr (04:45) How have sales been over pre-COVID, post-COVID in terms of growth or non-growth since then? Noah Parks (04:49) Thank Yeah, well, when we met Brandon was pretty much doing everything himself and and had about 25 maybe 30 clients and now we're up to 200. So it's been and this has been four years now. So it's been pretty exponential growth for us because you know in the agency world. It's two steps forward, one step back. I mean our retention rates about 93 95 % so it's really high but. Craig Fuhr (05:22) Very high. Noah Parks (05:23) You're still you still got that and you know, I want to be clear upfront. I love this industry and I love the people in it. I love everything about it and again been doing this for a long time, but there are some interesting quirks in this industry that we can all agree on and one of them is the squirrel chasing people in this industry. So we do get some turnover. You know clients who maybe have had results for a month and they take off. and end up coming back four months later. So it's an interesting, interesting world. Craig Fuhr (05:54) Well, don't I mean, to that point, I don't think that people, most investors sort of the mom and pops. mean, you know, if you get guys are doing 50 plus deals a year, they get the price of marketing and sort of why it's necessary. But I think from, you know, people that are like, they can do it all for me. And, know, I can just, you know, set it and forget it. Noah Parks (06:05) you Craig Fuhr (06:13) And they realize that it's, you know, $1,200, $1,500, $5,000 a month. I'm not, I'm not putting any numbers on your services, obviously, but I don't think I'm probably too far off. I think that, you know, when they don't see results, they just automatically figure, well, this doesn't work. And these guys don't know what they're doing. And what they don't realize is that any marketing scheme, any, not scheme, but any marketing tactic, it's got, it's got to be a commitment. Jack BeVier (06:38) so, uh, paper click is it's, you know, different, different points in time, different marketing channels have been, been more or less effective and more or less popularized too. Right. So like, uh, and I mean, we have this like mastermind that we run called real investor round table and we get together every four months. One of the biggest things I get out of it is like, Hey, what's going on in marketing right now? Like what's working, what's stop working my direct mail conversion rates are down. What are yours? You know, is it the market? Is it me? is it the, is it the channel? and man, that's like freaking feels like it's playing whack-a-mole like, year over year that, that they're trying to figure out like what's working right now to, keep any kind of competitive advantage is, is like a game of constant whack-a-mole. And then you add the complexity overlay of having to compete on the damn internet, like, and that the rules are changing. constantly? How do you all, how do you all build a business around that? Right? How do you keep up with that and make that consistent? Noah Parks (07:37) You know, it's every channel is like this, right? I mean, now there's buzz around is cold calling back, you know, and and direct mail has been performing in 2025. Direct mail has been performing better than it has for a couple of years. And and there's ebbs and flows with PPC. There's ebbs and flows in Facebook that I think the important in an ideal world. You put budget in each of these channels and you just let it go, let it ride and just understand that over time. That's the problem is when we, you know, if we want to take a data analytics perspective, we're looking at a snapshot and it's wild and it's all over the place. And as we zoom out, that line is going to smooth, right? And, and that's, that's the important mindset to have, but When we're talking about cash flow and interest rates and days on market and everything else that goes into this, that can be difficult and we get that. One other thing I'd like to point out is, you mentioned going to masterminds and talking to other people, that can be challenging as well because it does feel like whack-a-mole because you have people in different markets and different exit strategies and all sorts of things and you're trying to standardize your conversation and that Craig Fuhr (08:37) Mm. Noah Parks (08:54) can be misleading. if you don't mind, I'm going to, this isn't a pitchy, it's just a one thing that we're trying to do at Bateman Collective because we're seen as the, the leaders, the thought leaders and the data leaders in the industry. If you will, we've put together a benchmark report that we are, it's free to everybody out there. And what it's doing is it's answering exactly those questions. If my exit strategies are this and I'm doing this many deals per year, what are my peers doing? What's working for them? And as long as somebody has their KPIs in seven or eight minutes, they can enter in all their KPIs and we can spit out a 25 page PDF that is telling them exactly what's going on. So we've reached critical mass where now we have enough data that it's, you know, it's significant, if you will. So when they put in their information, it will spit that PDF out to them and they'll be able to see the landscape nationwide of what's going on. And it has standardized, if you will, the conversation so that they get a good idea of what's working now. Jack BeVier (09:58) Is that a them versus them versus the other 200 investor clients that you have in just PPC or across channels across markets? Noah Parks (10:05) No, it's this is cross channels, cross markets, not our, not just our clients. This is a nationwide, if we could get every single investor to do this, the goal is to have that data and be able to provide those insights free to everybody in the industry so that every year we have a benchmark report so that we can have a better idea of what's actually going on rather than sitting around a table talking about. what we feel is going on when we don't even know our actual KPIs. Does that make sense? Jack BeVier (10:37) It does. Yeah. I mean, that would be, that would be cool. There's like, you know, John burns has a, they're like certain, you know, survey based reports that, know, if you fill out this survey, then they'll give you a copy of your MSA results. And like RCN does a, does an investor sentiment survey that they publish every year. So that would be very cool. It'd be a little like just to, I'm like real, I'm nerdy. like, Craig Fuhr (10:37) Let's go. Jack BeVier (10:58) it would be a little iterative, right? Like if everyone was watching that and then we were like, Hey, you know, this is on the upswing. Well, everyone would shift over there and get rid of the competitive advantage. Right. And then like drive it, drive it down and actually there'd be an argument to like play countercyclical to it. Right. Like if everyone's actually watching it. sorry, can't help myself. Noah Parks (10:58) you Yeah, no, it's it's and again I bring that up just because you you know you're poking the issue that. That were yeah, literally trying to solve across sales, marketing, revenue, all departments of of REI. Craig Fuhr (11:30) So give us a quick take on the services that Bateman provides. Well, we talked about before the show. so yeah, give us a rundown there. Noah Parks (11:42) Sure. Yeah, we manage close to a couple million dollars a month worth of PPC and Facebook ads and Facebook would include Instagram. Throw in some YouTube in there as well. But but those are the main channels that we focus on in in the paid space. People ask oftentimes why we don't hit some of the other channels like TikTok and whatever. And the bottom line is to use a fishing analogy, which world's worst fishermen, I like it. You don't, you don't cast where the fish aren't right. You have to cast where the fish are. And just because as investors, we tend to use YouTube all the time and podcasts all the time. Doesn't mean that that's where our motivated sellers are. You know, same thing with, with streaming services, running commercials on streaming services. That's, that's incredibly problematic simply because that's not typically where our motivated sellers. are. And so we have to play in spaces where the motivated sellers are. And as an agency, we have to develop products that are consistent, repeatable, and scalable. So even though the one-off investor may be able to run some stuff in those channels that work, for us, we aren't able to scale that for our clients. But then we also focus on SEO, search engine optimization, and website builds as well. Craig Fuhr (12:56) Cool. Jack. Jack BeVier (12:57) Yeah. Tell me, tell me about, like bore me with the details. Like tell me what the value proposition is of working with you guys versus trying to dig out there and do it yourself. I mean, I know that's like the kind of the lob softball question, but like, but explained to me like in nerdy detail, like what, what exactly, why, why can't I do it myself? other than assuming that Assuming I had discipline, right? Like let's assume for a moment, which I know is a huge assumption and not true, but assume for a moment that you're talking to an investor who has discipline, who will stick to a regimen and monitor their KPIs. What do you guys do that they can't do? Noah Parks (13:36) give you your time back. I mean, at the end of the day, it's not an issue of can, right? Because one of the things I love about this industry is the investors that I know and have the fortune to know many around the country are some of the hardest working, smartest go-getters I've ever met in my life. And it's pretty incredible. I think the question is, is that what you want to do, right? There there reaches this in this industry there reaches this inflection point right when you're driving for dollars and you're hustling doing bandit signs and you're then you're cold calling and texting and you're doing all these things outbound to try and drive business and then as the business grows there's that inevitable shift to inbound and and what it is really is in the beginning we can trade our time because we don't have money but as that business grows we start to have more money than we have time. And is that what you want to be doing with your time is optimizing the website and writing content and things like that. So I mean, there are some very simple things that you can do. And we can get into this, but with Google Business Profile, especially, that's the lowest hanging fruit when it comes to some things that you can do on your own to improve your presence in the search results. But we Jack BeVier (14:54) just having a Google Business Profile. Noah Parks (14:56) Yeah, and some simple optimizations that you can do to really help Google index you. But when it comes to, I mean, PPC, you know, we've got 200 clients, but we've got 40 people, 45 people that work here. And so, you know, if you were to put a value on the equivalent of hiring somebody, you're going to be hiring a $200,000 a year employee easily. to be able to do all that work. When, you use the agency model, you know, five, $6,000 a month of, you know, light costs. Jack BeVier (15:38) Gotcha. know it's going to annoy you that I asked this question, but I have to ask this question because everyone, it's like this. ⁓ so like, so what's working best right now? Like which channel, which channel is the best right now? Like where are we, you know, what, what's, what's your view of the landscape of like what's working, what's not working. Noah Parks (15:43) have 10 kids, dude. You're not going to ask me anything that's going to annoy me. there's a lot of flocks and some real unknown, because of AI, which I know is kind of the underpinning of what we want to get into today, but because of AI, there's some shift in the market. and some things that probably need to be kind of clarified, if you will, with chat, GPT, Gemini, Grok, they're taking search volume, right? I know offline we have this conversation about, I mean, my wife using chat GPT just to get answers to everyday questions and she no longer listens to me. But, but the thing is, is taking search volume too. And, and so people are concerned about that. I think to squash that, if you will, again, we have to think about our avatar. Are our motivated sellers who are using. you know, the pre-installed browser on a PC. Are they really going to chat GPT and grok and Gemini to get answers to their questions of finding a cash buyer to buy their house because they're going to be foreclosed on? Probably not. Not currently exactly. Craig. Great point. But it's coming. Right. I mean, we've we've seen, we've seen the shift, right? The motivated seller avatar is going to grow, you know, in complexity, if you will, just, you know, Craig Fuhr (17:01) Not currently. Noah Parks (17:16) like it has in the past. And so the question is, they may not be there yet, but they're going to be eventually. So what can we do now? So especially with SEO and AIEO or whatever you want to call it, it's the shade of the tree you should have planted 20 years ago. So what can we do now so that we're in the best position possible when the time comes that our avatar is in those places? And there's still growth within Google themselves and how they're going to display results. I've already seen it shift in the Gemini, the AI results, and the way that they index those and tag where they're getting their information. So what are the best practices that we can implement now to be ready then? I think that's probably the most important question. Craig Fuhr (18:01) Jack, what are your thoughts on the same? If you know, Dominion is busy with some projects that, you know, appear to be very exciting. What's your take on the same? Like, how do we reach, how do we continue to reach, we'll take Dominion Financial, for example, how do we continue to reach that avatar of the better borrower? that we're looking for as AI continues to sort of take off? Do you think the marketing channels sort of remain the same? Or do you think there will be like a heavy AI component to it? Jack BeVier (18:28) You ⁓ Yeah, it's not like a, it's what Noah's bringing up is really interesting. It's not something I'd really thought much about before. Like I'm always thinking about AI from the context of, of, like building tools that can scale. so that scaling of people can allow them to do more marketing, right? Without having, you like make mass customization of messaging, right? Like if you put a, if you put an LLM into the flow of a, you know, into an automation flow, you know, like an orchestration flow, And you can customize the messaging to that individual because of a bunch of data that you've in, you that you've aggregated about that target. I was less thinking, I was thinking of more of applications on that side to try to increase the conversion rate of your traditional target audience. and I hadn't really considered the perspective of like this, like the search erosion, as like a, you know, less, less effective place to get in front of those folks. think, you know, I agree with Noah, like, because that's not where they are. Like they're not, you know, I'm not worried about like, getting my messaging into, into grok, like they don't know what grok. But I think that there's like some really interesting things that could be done on the mass custom, kind of the mass customization is the term that I've been borrowing for. try to get to try to increase conversion rates for those folks. cause if you could like put their LinkedIn, you know, you know, LinkedIn profile or whatever, like, know, their favorite magazines and their location and, know, and their Facebook profile, and you could aggregate that data to the list of high equity people and then create a letter, create a blue ink letter that really speaks to them. and like that, and then maybe you could influence conversion rate. I know that that may be a little bit aggressive because it's less about convincing people to sell and just more than being in front of them when they sell. But if you can make more of an impression than when they, you know, then they'll hire chance that they remember me when they decide to sell. was kind of, kind of the angle I've been mentally going after. Noah Parks (20:31) Yeah. Well, and you're... sorry. Craig Fuhr (20:31) Well, we had the company had so much success with those types of direct mail letters in the past jack where it was, you know, it was not a dear, dear, sir, it was very customized. And so I only see what comes on the horizon in terms of data availability, as you know, something to be very excited about in terms of crafting a marketing message to, you know, better, you know, a better avatar that you're seeking. as a side note mentioned it before the show was able to get on to an eight and this weekend and I built out my first automation that basically scraped all the data from our real investor radio podcast site of all the episodes. And that probably took me and by the way, Jack never programmed in my life Noah, you wouldn't want me to ever program anything. But that the cool part was is that one of the guys that works here who's working on our AI products showed me a, a bot that basically is a flow creator. And I gave it the idea. It came up with the Jason code. I have all the, the, here's the thing that sucks about AI right now, Jack is that it's pretty cool. Like an eight N pretty cool. However, it's still a little clue G. and you still have to like make them all hook them all up and make all the little nodes work and make sure that like you've got it just right. Because I spent probably a good three to four hours on Saturday doing that. And then the second one that I'm working on is how to take all of that data and make a really great LinkedIn post based on the podcast. And I'm very close to getting that done. So for those of you who are listening, the reason I brought that up was not to shoulder pad on the back. It's it's so easy. I was just literally taking pictures, Jack and saying, Hey, I've, I've got this on my screen. What the hell, you know, fix this. And it did, very quickly. Didn't have to wait for much. And so very exciting time. I think I can only imagine what a year or so would be, you know, a year from now or two where there won't be any of the, Hey, you got to hook this up and create the code for this. And here's the API for that. all of that stuff. So little side comment there, but as we swerve into what you guys are doing from an AI standpoint, keep going. Noah Parks (22:37) Yeah. Yeah. Well, very similar to installing a printer 20 years ago, right? mean, you know, taking your disks and installing it and then try it. mean, now you just, you know, you just plug in the printer and well, you never put it in. my printer right there is just, you know, it just connects right through the network. And so you're exactly right. I mean, this is, it's all going to smooth itself out and, uh, and Craig Fuhr (22:48) Well, Jack BeVier (22:51) Mm-hmm. Craig Fuhr (22:59) Says I have to update the BIOS. Yeah. Noah Parks (23:12) But the important thing is I think the more of a foundational knowledge you have going into that. position people are going to be. And Jack, to your point, conceptually what you were saying is very, similar to Google's AI Max, which is the PPC version of what Google's AI is releasing. ⁓ Jack BeVier (23:32) Explain, yeah, explain that I hadn't heard about it. Tell me about that. Noah Parks (23:35) sorry. Well, segue. Basically, what it's going to do is it's it keywords are meaningless anymore. Negative keywords are meaningless because Google has so much data on every single click that they can they can detect the intent of the search rather than you saying, hey, if somebody types this in, I want to show up in search. They they just already know and they put two and two together. The interesting thing though is that Google is going to dynamically change the title and the description of your search result to better coincide with that search intent. Does that make sense? So rather than if you search, know, buy my house fast for cash because I'm going to be foreclosed on, and then the search result shows up, we're the number one cash buyers in Maryland, you know. closed in seven days. There's no correlation there, right, in intent. Google's going to dynamically change the headline of that search result to say something about how you can help people who are about to be foreclosed on. But that content has to be coming from within the website. So all of these best practices that agencies like ours have been preaching for years are going to really kind of come home to Roost because Google can only pull from what you have. And if you don't have content around what you want to the people you want to serve, then they're not going to be able to do that. The other interesting thing too, is they're also going to dynamically be able to change the URL that you're sending those people to. as it is right now, it's we're the number one cash home buyers in Maryland, closed seven days. And it goes to the homepage where there's a form. It's going to change that title. It's going to change that description, and it's going to change the page that they land on that is more relevant. Craig Fuhr (25:30) So you can just put like a, yeah, I got it. You can just put like the company top level domain rather than some sort of generated form page. What would be the benefit of dynamically changing the URL? Noah Parks (25:35) suit. The benefit for Google is they're providing a more relevant result based on intent. And so if they go into a subpage of yours that deals with foreclosure rather than your home page where you have, you know what I mean? So sometimes I think it's important to kind of back up and think about Google's business model. If we don't provide the very best resource for the person doing the search, then Google doesn't care, right? Cause this is a multi-billion dollar business for Google. And so they want to make sure that they're providing the best results based on the intent of that search. Now, shameless plug, interestingly, we've been doing this in more of a manual way for years, where we at Bateman Collective, we have been doing different ad groups that have different titles, different descriptions, and dynamic landing pages that will change to correlate messaging with what that person searched. Now, we're still doing it in, they did this, or if they type this, show them this. But it theoretically and conceptually follows the same lines that Google is moving towards. So it puts us in an interesting position. Now, it's knocked in. It's not a forced switch for right now. But. the right hand's Jack BeVier (27:01) Yeah, they're going that direction. Is that like, so. Make sure I'm not missing something. So SEO all of a sudden becomes more important because if you didn't have that SEO, what you're referring to as SEO, right? before that was like for organic search, but now it's going to be actually really relevant to outperformance. Because before you could just like pay, pay for keywords for your little thing to pop up at the top. Now the content of what's behind the meat of what's behind your company the SEO is going to be relevant because Google is going to be incorporating that into what shows up, who shows up. Noah Parks (27:41) Yeah, it what it looks like now. Now keep in mind this AI Max has only been announced for maybe seven weeks now and we've been meeting with Google weekly. There's a team of four over there and we're meeting with them and we have to. We have to basically apply to get some of our clients into the AI Max to even beta test it. So it's very early stages, but what it looks like is. is kind of what you're saying there. And that is there's a bit of a blurring. Now, you still have to be in the Google Ads program, if you will, right? Because you're willing to pay, right? But the content of your website is now going to become even more important because if you want to be relevant to the intent of somebody's search, you've got to have that content on your page. Craig Fuhr (28:15) Yeah, right. Noah Parks (28:27) Yeah, it's a very interesting time because it's almost vindicating for somebody like me who's been screaming this from the rooftops for years. Craig Fuhr (28:34) You just put you just put 15 more things on Jack's list like like. Noah Parks (28:38) Well, answer that, Jack, is that worth your time? Because I know somebody who can do it for you. ⁓ Jack BeVier (28:42) Yeah. like, what are, I'm really curious, like, cause you guys are an agency, right? So you guys have, you have guys at Google. Like the idea of having a guy at Google to me is like, so crazy. Like, like what, what kind of stuff do you learn from having those contacts? mean, you guys represent a significant portion of revenue. So I understand they're essentially like account managers, right? But they also want you to succeed and get more revenue. Right. So like, they're going to help you. Right. I would think that just like the, that's the, that's the incentives of those folks. like, what kind of stuff do you learn from them? Noah Parks (29:15) Well, it's been very collaborative. Think because again, this is a new product for them, so so they have to see how things are performing on our side. It's an interesting thing because there's there's something in machine learning called closed loop data reporting, right? Where AI is only as smart as the feedback it gets. OK, so think about this for a second. Somebody does a search. Google shows them your ad. They click on your ad. Google says, I did something good, know, pats himself on the back. Then that person goes into your website and they fill out the form and they submit the form. And Google's like, killer. just, you know, great job. I just sent them a lead. And then what Google does is they take that feedback and they say, you know, avatars that look like this tend to fill out the form, which is what these people want. So let's find more avatars like. But that's only part of the story, right? They don't see whether or not we were able to contact that seller. They don't see, you know, if that seller turned into a deal. Imagine for a second if we could then close that loop and say, hey, Google, that click turned into 50 grand of wholesale deal. Now Google is even smarter in correlating outcomes with the avatar. Jack BeVier (30:28) Right. Noah Parks (30:36) and finding a better avatar. Does that make sense? So there's a few places where Google gets that feedback, but the biggest one almost exclusively is missing. So for years, we've been doing this closed loop data reporting, feeding that data back into Google's algorithm to better train it, to find the right avatar. And we do it collectively across millions of dollars of ad spend. So that gives us that advantage, if you will. Jack BeVier (30:39) does. Noah Parks (31:05) The problem is getting investors to report back on those outcomes. That's a whole different podcast. So well, there are some platforms that we are able to tie into and just pull that data right from the CRM. But then there are others. What was that? Yes, like LeftMain, ReSimply, things like that. But then there are other situations where we are dependent on the client or their Jack BeVier (31:09) That's what was gonna say. So how you do it now? How you standardize investor reporting? Like left main or like left main. Noah Parks (31:34) marketing manager going into the lead database and scoring each of those leads and how they turned out. But the impact, the implications of that are huge if they do it. So getting 100 % buy-in is a bit of challenge as an agency, but right now we're about 70%. But the thing is everybody benefits from that because we utilize collective data. But again, feeding back to Google that information, is paramount because it's going to train them what type of avatar to go after. Craig Fuhr (32:07) Mm. Jack BeVier (32:09) Do you think that's like, is that, that's just the best practice from your perspective, that closed loop, that, that feedback straight to the ad ad network. Noah Parks (32:18) Yeah, I mean in any kind of I mean we used to call it machine learning right now. It's just ubiquitously called AI and in that scenario absolutely giving it the feedback on. It's kind of like raising a kid. You know if you if you instruct them on what you would like to see and then you see what you see and you don't tell them whether that was good or bad, then there I mean think about it. There's going to run amok. And so. We just need to provide that feedback to train the algorithm on what a motivated seller, a good quality motivated seller looks like. Jack BeVier (32:54) So how do you think AI Max is gonna change things? Like how does it change the competitive landscape? How does it impact success or not for investors? Like who's gonna win and who's gonna lose based off of this change in the landscape? Noah Parks (33:07) The people who have taken the time to provide good quality content on their website, like all things even, it has not changed since the dawn of Google. And that is the best quality content over time is going to win. And so because that's the model of Google, right, is providing resource, providing content to their clients. So all of the things from technical SEO, right? Site speed, site structure, metadata, those types of things are important. But then also having good content on the page, having good blogging. So again, think of it like pages on a website tend to be fairly static, right? We don't update and change the content of a page very often, but that can get fairly stale. Craig Fuhr (33:51) Mm-hmm. Noah Parks (33:53) timely or quite relevant sometimes. So that's where the blogging part of it comes in. Google Business Profile is another excellent, excellent way to, especially in a local area, to be able to provide updates. Most people don't know this, but in Google Business Profile, you can do mini blogs. You can do little mini blogs, 1,500 characters. You can have a picture. and you can have a button, right? A call to action. And I use this reference and only people who are old enough will get it, but Google loves their own stuff. And so they're always going to prioritize their own stuff. Craig Fuhr (34:30) They love to get high on their own supply. Noah Parks (34:32) Yes, they do. And if you think back to the, what is this 15 years ago, maybe a few, I don't remember anymore, but to the dawn of when social media was going crazy and Google launched Google+. Do you guys remember Google+. Craig Fuhr (34:47) don't jack Jack BeVier (34:49) I don't know. Noah Parks (34:51) I mean, it's in the trash bin of has been platforms, but when they launched it, everybody signed up for it because Google kind of made you or if you had any kind of Gmail account, you automatically had a Google Plus account. So the adoption of it was humongous, but the utilization of it was almost zero. Nobody used it. Yet, if you posted on Google Plus, Craig Fuhr (35:07) Yeah. Noah Parks (35:20) you were almost guaranteed to be at the top of search. even though nobody was using it. But that's just it's just kind of an example. They love their own stuff. So Google Business Profile is a great place to to post regular updates of, you know, it could even be about a seller experience, you know, anything topical that's going to be relevant to what motivated sellers might be interested in. Google will make that correlation and and you have a really good opportunity. So. Jack BeVier (35:24) Yeah. Noah Parks (35:48) That's the low-hanging fruit. Google Business Profile, low-hanging fruit. For your listeners, if anybody, maybe we can link it. But if anybody wants, I have a very detailed Google Business Profile checklist of things that you can do to really optimize that. Craig Fuhr (36:04) Let me ask you going back to the Google AI max. So do you have to train the LLM? Or does Google basically come to you and say, Hey, we really understand your business model here, because we've been doing business for a long time. And then do you have to do you have to create workflows in it? Or do you just basically tell AI max, hey, this is what we do. This is what we want. And then it sort of creates the workflow and gets it gets you the result you want. Is there a pro? Is there a lot of programming involved? Currently, it's current rev. Noah Parks (36:35) No, no. In fact, it's it's it's I always have to throw an asterisk in here the way that I understand it because it's so new and in flux, but it is to try and remove that right from saying, hey, here's here's the thousand keywords of somebody searches I want and these ones I want exact match and these ones I want broad and blah, blah. It's it's it's moving away from that. Craig Fuhr (36:43) So. Noah Parks (37:02) to more of a purely intent base. But right now, it's still, think of it like a Venn diagram, right? You've got your exact match, your broad match, and so forth. And then you've got intent, right? That kind of pulls in each of those, but then is also on its own, right? So it's important to keep in mind that, what is it? 15, 20 % of daily searches on Google have never been seen before. They're unique. Craig Fuhr (37:19) Mm-hmm. Noah Parks (37:30) And so, and it's getting more that way because again, we're, you know, back in the old days, we couldn't just type a full on question into, into a search. Ask Jeeves, Netscape wasn't going to give that to you. or CompuServe. They weren't going to give that to you, but, yeah. So, you know, we would think of very specific words that we wanted to, to try and match up in our, in our results. Craig Fuhr (37:42) Only if you were using Ask Jeeves. Noah Parks (37:59) But now people, again, with natural speech going into Google, there's just a billion combinations of what could be searched for. And a very high percentage of those daily are unique. Craig Fuhr (38:15) I feel like the point of my last question was, can we ever get to a time where Google AI Max or some product like it is so good that I'm a smart guy. I've been doing real estate for a long time. I've even been doing some like, you know, old school SEO and direct mail. is do you ever foresee a time where I can log into Google AI Max and just do it all myself and bypass the Bateman collective? Noah Parks (38:44) Um, probably. Yeah. I mean, I would imagine so I, you know, it's interesting because going off what they say in external releases and going off what you hear, um, you know, again, this is not meant to replace, uh, agencies or, um, uh, you know, ad managers. It's actually their stated purpose. is to enhance and to augment the ad manager's ability to run more effective campaigns. So that's what we're being told. And so I'll stick with the Google company line for now. Yeah. Craig Fuhr (39:21) I get that. Jack BeVier (39:29) Company line, yeah, yeah. Craig Fuhr (39:31) Say for now, say for now, Jack. Jack BeVier (39:34) It's like, it's interesting to me that, I would, know, right now, and in a lot of things, right. It's not necessarily the best practitioner, like zooming out. It's not necessarily the best practitioner that gets the most leads or the best leads. It's the person who convinces an algorithm that they're the best practitioner. Right. So like this, like SEO is a proxy, right? Like you produce a bunch of content. we assume you must be good at practice at the practice. When in fact that w what that results in is a lot of folks who specialize in the marketing and they create a perception that they do a lot of real estate and then real estate comes to them or leads come to them. And then the guy who like is in the field, getting the property, know, building a house for cheaper than anybody else. And like just knows the sticks and bricks and produces the best quality product at the lowest price. Spend zero time, right? Like he spends all of his time. time doing the practice and none of the time convincing the internet. That's what he does. And he doesn't accrue any of these benefits. And it's like, it's a, there's like a weird fundamental disconnect there between like, you know, if the, we could just be like, Hey, you know what? Here's my real estate resume. Here's all the houses that I flipped. Like, Hey Google, here's all the houses that I flipped in the past three years. I'm the guy. Like, you know, this, there's nothing else I need to say like that. I'm the guy. Noah Parks (40:33) Mm-mm. Jack BeVier (40:54) Um, but instead we have to focus on this perception still. Um, and I'm just, you know, trying to like project forward to like, you know, where this, where this is all going, Hey, tomorrow we need leads, right? So like tomorrow we need leads and this is the system and like, you know, and it matters. Um, so like I I'm playing a little like, you know, academic, you know, head in the clouds game here, but, there's, know, throughout the industry, like it was part of, part of the inefficiencies in the business model. you know, remain that like, can't easily connect the person who has a problem and the person best suited to solve that problem, because the person best suited to solve that problem, you know, often does not spend their time or energy convincing the world that they're good at it, you know, they're out there doing it. Noah Parks (41:41) Yeah. I mean, that is well, a couple of things. One, take our industry as a whole. How many guys do you see on YouTube that start every clip focused on their Rolex as they pan out to their Lamborghini and they have, you know, they've closed like three deals in their life, right? But they're convincing newbies that these guys are a guru in the space and give me 50 grand because I'm going to teach you how I got this Rolex in this Lamborghini. look at, I mean, it's like stocks, right? Past performance predicts future performance kind of a thing. When we look back at Google and SEO and all that, it's the same story where it's not necessarily the best companies that win. It's the best marketing companies that win. And that's been a frustration, I mean, since the dawn of this. It truly has. so, but now, Craig Fuhr (42:26) Yeah. Noah Parks (42:35) kudos to Google because they have over the years. mean, back when I started there were, I mean, in 1997, if you were to look at some websites and you scroll down to the bottom of the website where the content stopped, the website kept going forever and ever and ever. And ironically, if you highlighted all that, you would see all these words, the same colors, the background, because they were keyword stuffing and spamming because, you know, they wanted their Craig Fuhr (43:00) That's right. Noah Parks (43:04) their potion to show up when somebody searched Britney Spears. It just, you know, that that was the way that people kind of played the sneaky game back then. Right. And so it wasn't necessarily the best company that was winning. It was the one that played the game the best. So how can we and I say kudos to Google because what they have done over the years is they have improved their algorithm and they've improved ways. So think of correlations. Now we really have to take more of a holistic approach to Craig Fuhr (43:12) So true. Noah Parks (43:33) Maybe I'll list in the right word, but we really need to be doing well in each of these categories in order to do well in results. And one of the best ways to do that, again, Google business profile, but getting those, nailing those Google reviews, okay? Nailing those Google reviews, getting video testimonials on your website. If you're a flipper, have a page with current and past projects and show before and afters. then, and then, you know, if you, if you can get again, testimonials about those projects, the more content, the more quality content that is relevant to who you are and what you do and why you're good. again, don't forget those, right? The who, what, why, where, when all that it's who you are, what you do, why you're good. And, you know, on a website, what is the call to action? What should you do next? get all those things in there and, and don't forget also, Craig Fuhr (44:04) Little blurb. Sure. Noah Parks (44:26) that Google will also show results for Facebook reviews. So get your Google reviews, but also get Facebook reviews if you have a company Facebook page, which you should have. Because again, they're looking for consistency and continuity across channels. And the more that they can see that you are who you say you are, the more you're going to be able to rank. Jack BeVier (44:50) That's super interesting. You even mentioned the Google ad network. Is that just because it's, the biggest one and it's, and so it's just like the most important. I mean, there are other PPC options. Craig Fuhr (44:52) it is. Noah Parks (44:58) Yeah. We also, yeah, I failed to say that we also do Bing or Microsoft ad network, which is essentially every search engine other than Google. So Yahoo, DuckDuckGo, Microsoft, whatever their current platform is called. But that's only about 12 % of the market share. so we kind of hold that as a tertiary strategy because it's good. Like the people who are doing motivated seller searches on the Microsoft ad network, those leads are good. They're quality. They're not super expensive. The problem is volume. You're not going to make a living on the Microsoft ad network. So it's a good supplementary channel. Craig Fuhr (45:34) Yeah. Jack BeVier (45:42) Interesting. Craig Fuhr (45:43) So Jack, anything else? Jack BeVier (45:45) No, man, this is super interesting conversation. mean, I think that, you know, the world's world's changing quickly. uh, and, uh, you know, you guys are dealing with that, that bobbing and weaving every day and staying in, staying on the front edge of the curve is the business model. So I'm always super interested to, uh, to talk with somebody who's, you know, living it like that. So thank you. Noah Parks (46:07) Yeah, of course. Craig Fuhr (46:08) Noah, we have a whole bunch of real estate investors who listen to the show and who we work with. So how do folks get in touch with you and Bateman Collective if they want to learn about working with you? Noah Parks (46:21) yeah, easiest way to send me an email. Noah and OAH just like the arc. so Noah at Bateman collective, do not forget the E it's not the Batman collective. It's Bateman collective. And honestly, since those commercials have come out with Jason Bateman and the men, the Batman, it's we've actually had this long standing joke before then, but, but then that came out as pretty awesome, but no Noah. Jack BeVier (46:39) That's hilarious. Noah Parks (46:45) at batemancollective.com. Craig Fuhr (46:47) Jack, I'll have you know I was taking notes during the show and I did spell bathe incorrectly. Just want to throw that one out there. No batting. Noah Parks (46:53) You Jack BeVier (46:54) You get to buy, you get to buy the URL Batman collective. mean, you have to. Craig Fuhr (46:57) Yeah, it's fair. Noah Parks (46:59) I know it's funny. did this podcast the other day and it was kind of a, it was about AI max, but to set the table, I did a historical approach to where we used to be in 2004. And one of the things that, you know, there was a keyword search tool called Overture and you would do a search for something in there and then it would take up to 30 seconds to give you any results. And can you imagine waiting 30 seconds? And then it would give you some related results down below. But one of the biggest strategies was misspellings. And one of my clients that had a wedding dress shop, one of the things that we would do is we would bid on weeding dresses, weeding dresses. And because we would pick those leads up, same lead, Intent, right? Intent was the same, but we're bidding on the misspellings and pick those up for super chief. Craig Fuhr (47:41) Weeding. Yep. Jack BeVier (47:46) Yeah. Right. Noah Parks (47:53) And it just, always makes me laugh because just to see how far we've come. Craig Fuhr (47:57) Noah Parks. Honestly, man, it's been a pleasure talking to you. I hope we can get you back on the show at some point as the technology evolves and and just have a great conversation regarding it. Noah at Bateman collective.com Noah at Bateman collective.com will put a link on the real investor radio website. And as well. We'll let producer Kyle know to see if we can get a link to your checklist that you mentioned as well. So yeah. Well, man, thank you for coming on the show. We really appreciate it guys. That is real investor radio for today. Jack, I'm going to go home and drink some tea and we'll see everybody later. Noah Parks (48:25) Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. Jack BeVier (48:38) Rest up, have the AI do your work for you, all right? Craig Fuhr (48:41) Yeah, all right, see ya.