Latest / Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder / Efficiency Isn't a Buzzword: Sneha Kumari on Merlin AI, Orchestration, and Operational Intelligence

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Efficiency Isn't a Buzzword: Sneha Kumari on Merlin AI, Orchestration, and Operational Intelligence · Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now, fast forward 20 years, 30, I discovered that I can design my own feedback loops.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the tighter they are, the faster I learn and the faster I grow.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: What is going on, LM family, back again?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: And this time I have a super awesome celebrity, like for real, for real, in the construction industry, in my brain for sure, who was here almost two years exactly, like two years and a month ago, we got to interview her.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm super excited because a lot has happened.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of things have been growing.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: She's a dear friend.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm super, super lucky to have been connected with her.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And just let me tell you a little bit about her.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: She has been named as the top 40 women to follow in manufacturing by Source Day.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: So she's a player, she's got game.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: She's been recognized as McKinsey and Company's distinguished operation women leaders.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, she's a baller.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: She's also one of the afflicted.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Any of you out there that are like all about lean and continuous improvement and making things better for human beings, she has the affliction.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: She's also a lean zealot.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: She is the president of Merlin AI.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Miss Snaha Kamari, amazing, amazing person.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna get to know a lot more about her.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I just got to warn you, she's got a very warm touch.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you may become enamored, and that's okay.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's natural.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if this is your first time here, you're listening to the Learnins and Missteps podcast, where you get a front row C to see how other amazing human beings just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to lead this world better than they found it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to know Miss Sniha.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Miss Sniha, how are you?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I am doing great.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me here.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: All I can say is, I'm so glad I'm back.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was driving back from the gym this morning, like, oh, I get to talk to Sniha, and like all the things, like just seeing all the like the massive growth, the changes, the the way you're contributing to the industry.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have you got Merlin AI, and then just the human being that you are.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, man, I can't wait to just get some more of those details.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm super, super excited.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I've got a I've got a kind of a weird question that I want to start with.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do I do I get permission to ask it?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ask away.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is exciting.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So why is lean meaningful to you?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, there is lots of history learning that comes with lean.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're bang on on asking this question.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely very happy to stay there, say, state here that I am also a part of LCI, Lean Construction Institute, the Orange County chapter.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I am excited to, you know, share all of this, uh, share this with all the audience here.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Lean has had so this is, you know, this is a word that will has always had meaning to folks, whether you're working, whether you are at home, it's just a way of life, is how I see this.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: That concept never left my professional and even personal life for all along, for however long I've worked.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I got introduced to this concept very early on in my career.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was, in fact, an intern, and then getting to know a little bit about Six Sigma and what is waste and all of that, and then started to get you know dive deeper.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I progressed through my career manufacturing and then construction manufacturing manufacturing, you know, the industrial manufacturing and industrialized construction part of that.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: For me, lean means being simple, efficient, waste-free, lean, not overcomplicated.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Simple, unfortunately.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's like everyday language.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just it's it's no more about, oh, are you thinking lean?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is your teen thinking about it?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: How are you thinking about it?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: What events are you doing about it?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is, you know, we talk about we we leave culture so often, more often than not, out of this whole concept.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a way of life.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you think you're constantly optimizing on looking for elimination of waste around you, maximizing your frequency day to day.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say that I have that I often mentioned probably maybe on the podcast two years ago as well, like as a mom, that is something that has only like 10 times that that feeling has only grown 10 times ever since I became a mom.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like doing what adds value.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Reduce your delays, reduce rework.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Any excess let it go.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: One piece flow with all the kids, the family, everything else.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Kids, you know, babies, all the amazing working moms out there, just moms out there.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Man, doing more with less, removing all of these waste and clutter around us is what we want to do.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: The couple things that words that you said that I think are ultra meaningful.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: But before I pick that apart, if folks, if you're listening, if you never heard of this lean thing, look it up.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Go to leanconstruction.org or.org for lean enterprise.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of stuff out there.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna get into what the definition is and all the tools and all the frameworks and all that, because that's that's not the important part.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: The important part is what you said, Snaha, is simple, simplicity, living it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's a part of your personal operating system, the way you think.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned culture, it's about how we treat people, or I will say the intent and purpose behind the optimization.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because we can optimize things and neglect and abuse people by optimizing it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: The intent is not for that, I got at least in Jesse Land, all of these lean nerdy things are about making work better for human beings to enhance the quality of life for the people.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's and if you ain't doing it that way, I think you're missing the boat.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you bring up the point about how it applies or how you leverage it as a mother.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're a lot of things, girl.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like I swear, you are you are an inspiration to me.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you with Merlin AI, your professional job, all the things that you're involved with, and you're a mom.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I just don't know how you do it.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then, furthermore, how any parent does it, mothers particularly, because you kind of carry carry the load almost singularly in most cases, in terms of raising, maintaining the family, keeping things going.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so the way you can see that the application, of course, you have to do something to be able to manage all of those things.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what I want to ask this weird thing around the idea of the thinking and the culture piece.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: For folks out there, because you know they're out there that are like super distracted with the tools and the events and you know, all of this wonky stuff.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: What insights do you have?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Could you offer to help them really experience the impact that it can have, like of the real thinking and application, not just when they're on the clock, but when they're off the clock as well?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one thing that, you know, something new that has come to end as I keep thinking of lean, there's something new that keeps you know coming to mind as I practice this in my day-to-day.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk about culture, we talk about mindset.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I would share from my personal experience is again, as we said, it's about removing everything that doesn't add value and something that can flow faster, smoother.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: But at its core, what I have learned is that learning is very much about respecting time.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not just your own time, your customers' time.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Making sure, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Making sure that you're working on things that actually matter, especially if you're at workplace.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Work on things that actually matter to whoever your stakeholder is.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: That could be your family, that could be your customer, that could be your peer, that could be your boss.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: As long as we are being cognizant of the time and what's the output, like you know, we are not just cognizant, just being respectful of that.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like everything else around it has started to become look or look like more of waste.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I, you know, I I'm not I'm not saying that that's the whole mantra, but these days, like off late, like time is money, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And time is valuable as we even go about this podcast.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So something that that's something that has been coming back to me more often on how with every step, with every effort, with every task that I I take up, how do I make sure that I'm respecting everybody, every stakeholder in my lives?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm respecting their time and I'm giving the value that they're looking for me, whether it's just by a simple gesture, whether it's by my output on the work I do.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you know, I think you may have seen some of my posts.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: I have a weird relationship with time, and it's totally contradictory.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, on one hand, I get hyper focused on time, and it's like, we gotta get this done in 38 seconds, period.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like whatever the hell it is, oh, it's 38 seconds.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or when I'm in charge of like timekeeping on in a meeting or a session, things can be getting real meaty and real like deep conversation.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: But if the agenda said it was a seven-minute conversation and we're at seven minutes, I will stop it to move to the next thing, right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I get very rigid, which I think helps, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a lot of times I that's why I'm the timekeeper is because I'm gonna keep time.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna finish on time.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: You better, but we're gonna start on time, we're gonna finish on time, period.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, on the other end of the spectrum, again, this is in my brain, the idea of time management, I don't agree with that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's an imaginary, it's it's a misfocused energy because there's nothing, you know, this you can't do anything to speed it up, slow it down, get more of it, trade it for anything.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's gonna happen whether I'm watching Netflix picking my nose or delivering value to somebody I care about, right?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Time will happen.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so what you said, I think is the important part.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: The the cool thing about time is it's a fantastic measurement, easily accessible, universally recognized measurement.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so then it's can become a question of what you said.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: How much impact can I deliver in the shortest or smallest number of seconds or minutes?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Can I deliver a memorable experience within a confined period of time?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Can I do two or three or four or five?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like comedians, they measure laughs per minute.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like for real, for real, I've been studying comedians a little bit and I'm like, man, they're so good.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And like getting into kind of the tactics of it, when they're testing jokes, they're timekeeping how many laughs did that you know set of words or story produce within a minute.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you go longer than a minute without a laugh, guess what?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna lose the audience.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so back to your point of delivering value to the stakeholder as rapidly as possible, which I think converts and can be measured or quantified in terms of time.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Am I crazy?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely not.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you bring a very relevant point that time management is, you know, how relevant has it, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that it's a bit too, you know, it's it's useful, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: But this real shift is what in my head is that it's shouldn't be a bottleneck anymore.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: The whole design has to replicate to enable you to be able to manage your time efficiently.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when I say, you know, when I say design, I mean the systems around you that should be enabled to manage the complexity you are dealing with.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that could be your workflows, any kind of automation.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, we're talking about the age of AI, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, coordination.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I in my head, your system, if it's intelligent, that is equivalent to you being productive.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: I and focusing on the important things, like not everything's important, and now, like you said, AI, there's a lot of things that are we'll just say low value activities that AI could do for you.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna jump into the LM family member shout out.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: This one goes out to Mr.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Will Giddings, who left me a Google review, and he said, Jesse is great.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: I concur.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Very helpful strategies were presented, and we had great conversations during his training.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Will, first of all, thank you, brother, for taking the time to leave me a review.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And folks, the rest of you out there, if you didn't know, I actually have a job.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like the podcast is not how I make my job.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Modeling is not how I make my money.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: I do consulting and training and coaching and all the things.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I get a review, a comment, a share, five stars, all of the things that really, really feels good.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: But specifically, when you take the time to leave a comment or a review on things, it gives me the opportunity to shout you out in the future.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So please drop a comment out there so I know you're there.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: I even mean even a goofball like me has been experimenting and getting some optimization value by leveraging AI.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I also know that you have Merlin AI.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I got kind of a weird question around this idea.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so thank you for like the lean thing, because I know it's totally interwoven, right?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because you and have I, you and I have had multiple conversations, and it's just the way you function, the way you operate.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, dear mother, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Top 40 women to follow, most influential operation woman leader, like you got a lot, you've accomplished a lot, and more importantly, you've contributed a whole lot to the people around you and to the industry at large.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: You got Merlin AI.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Last time we talked, I feel it was like in the early phases, or at least for damn sure, it was two years ago, of launching Merlin AI.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, with all of that going on, and I know Merlin has been getting a lot of traction.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: I see a lot more media out there about it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: You got more clients, you got more users, all the things you're growing and expanding.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: What have you discovered about yourself since launching Merlin AI?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's that's a loaded question.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: First, I think the first and foremost thing of as a founder, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Even being a new mom as kids, that was in itself a new startup, like you know, a new life experience as well, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say resilience is something that resilience and perseverance has just been exponentially ingrained in me, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just know that that's something that I I have to be on because not every day is the same.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Every day brings newer challenges in a good way, you know, challenging me, making sure that I making sure that I am able to keep up and support the team that I have that's actually making this dream that I've had for so long true.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do I also, while you know, being while facing all of those challenges, and I'm sure they do too, how do I, you know, make sure that I am able to again manage my time the best, but also be able to support and give them the support that they would need in order to be successful.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So as a company, we are we are doing we are doing good.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think as as a person, that's something that's top of mind every single day.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because listen, as a founder, I am motivated 24-7.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: My goal is to keep the people who are working for me believing in my dream and giving that 100% too.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: My job as a founder is to make sure that I keep them motivated, as motivated as I am too.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And there is, by the way, no strings attached.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they don't have to be as motivated, they don't have to be as passionate for the product that I have dreamt of, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep up that?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep that fire alive?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep that passion alive?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And trust me, I'm not saying that I'm doing a good job at it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I am a work in progress, I will always be.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: But that like past one year, Jesse, I have to say time has been top of mind, you know, as things go go more busy, as things get comp things are getting complex, we are expanding.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Time is just adding, you know, every every second, every minute has to have meaning, right?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I can see the best of both of personal and professional.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the second is how do I keep keep my keep the spirits of my team tied up and they are as passionate and show them the dream that I am seeing that, you know, sometimes when you have remote teams, you're not able to view believe in the vision because you're not first hand engaged, and managing a remote team across around the world brings its own challenges.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: We know about very well about that since the days, COVID days.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do I keep them driven while my drive doesn't go anywhere, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that I am working on and I hope to get better in the months to come.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you talk about the professional side, of course, you know how the narrative has to be clear.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do we make sure that we are rewriting the script of how enterprise software's were told?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's like kind of founder level thinking that I work on, I operate from, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do operate with urgency, but there is a motion and a flow that will always be followed.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't sacrifice certain KPIs, whether it's safety, quality, and delivery.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, lean into collaboration, right?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have ownership, hold people accountable, but it's always, you know, collaboration is what is going to move you forward.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so amazing I mean, there's a few things that are going through my head.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: One, I think I heard you say something you said triggered this question.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, Merlin AI is your startup, you're taking that thing on, you're growing it, it's getting bigger.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like you just made a comment that it's like a kid is a startup, also having a child is a startup.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is, especially when you are having your first one.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: You actually technically, you know, I have two boys and this, so they're all my babies, right?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have three babies.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's an interesting thing, and it's gonna sound flippant, but it's just what I believe.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: When I talk to people, or you know, we get in these conversations and people are talking about credentials, certification.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: What's the proof that you can do X, Y, Z?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they're very, I'll say, good stewards of making a selection on a product or a service or whatever, and they want proof.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: However, those same people went and made human beings and they don't have no damn certification or proof to do that.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think about that?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: You also learn on the job, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: You make mistakes.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would have learned nothing if I knew everything from the beginning.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: If I did not make mistakes, making mistakes is such an integral, you know, and I somehow believe that like somewhere, I also believe that our creativity shouldn't go nowhere.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: In this age of AI, it's very easy to lose that creative pull you have.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: But sitting down with yourself and also like not being afraid to make mistakes.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: However, I do feel that the velocity and the probability of mistakes is only gonna go down with AIR assistance.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, making mistakes is such an integral part of living your life in general, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: As a mom, I've I've made mistakes, I still do, and you know, I like nobody is perfect and embrace it, be okay with it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Nah, definitely life doesn't come with sorry, I'm just being a little more ph philosophical if it feels like that, but I don't feel that it's a setback, it's only improved me in many ways, and that's how progress, that's how I've progressed forward.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's not it's a mechanism.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I see that as a mechanism that helps me learn, improve.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: They are they feel like feedback loops, Jesse.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: The faster you move them, the faster you get better.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I love that you said that.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's it is absolutely the feedback loop because that's where the learning happens.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Something I do, something, I see the result or impact, experience the positive and negative consequences of that, adjust my behavior, run another cycle, and that's That's where the rapid learning has.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when I was an installer, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: When I was doing plumbing and hanging pipe and doing work, the feedback loop was tight.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could look back every hour and see how much how much progress and where I need to be.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was instant.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I knew how I was performing.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Then I got promoted to be a foreman.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: The feedback loop expanded dramatically.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: It took me probably eight months to understand that I wasn't that I was failing.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: I just had to like start learning delayed gratification.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next level of promotion I got, same thing.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: The feedback loop got longer and got longer and got longer.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, fast forward 20 years, 30, I discovered that I can design my own feedback loops.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the tighter they are, the faster I learn and the faster I grow.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Man, absolutely.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're nailing it by saying that.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like the tighter feedback loops you have, which means the closer you are with your.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe this also very strongly in the case of our customers.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: The closer you are.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: We still behave like, you know, I mean, we are a startup, of course, but we still behave like, you know, this customer, the last customer, is the first customer we have had.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're not another company on my books that I'm gonna make money of.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that comes from the mindset of how I have lived my life, how strongly and how seriously I take every single customer of mine, right?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to be able to show that attitude in some ways also and show the sense of urgency that your pain is pain is painful for me, you too.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not I'm not here to cause you any pain.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess being close to your stakeholders and you know, customers in my case is an example that I'm talking about, and that feedback loop going every minute, every second, every hour.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, it's not that as bad.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that will only help us get better and better.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is also appreciated by the people around.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think of, I mean, I don't have like a bazillion customers like like you do because you're super awesome.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I hope to have that many someday soon.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I do recognize that when I receive it and act on the feedback, it does signal gratitude for because it is.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm grateful.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, man, thank you for the feedback.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because I didn't know that it sucked, or I don't want you to go through that friction.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Let me fix that for you.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the only way I know is if you tell me.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I think another one of those kind of hidden behaviors is for the listener out there that's thinking, like, oh, I want to create some feedback loops so I can learn and grow fast.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, okay, but how can you like you got to act on the feedback?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't act on it, like act taking action on the feedback keeps that loop open or greases the loop, right?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna take action on the feedback, it makes that that loop real clunky and real disjointed.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I as you're saying things, I'm I'm smiling because this is how we are doing things at Merlin too in terms of remembering, um, remembering the mistakes, and that's how you would see that your day-to-day AI is also getting better.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's how a system learns, that's how you learn by acting on it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, you see the signal, like what has happened, an error, some data, some outcome, whatever that is.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: That gives you some insight, you know whether it worked or didn't, and then you adjust your behavior, and then it loops.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the faster loops are, the faster the improvements are.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: The probability of it not happening again only goes up.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now again, I've I live in a very muddy world, and just right here between these two ears, is a mess.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason I say that is I also know that I don't take action on every single bit of critical feedback.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it I ignore.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I have my reasons, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like the way I filter through what's actionable and what's not, or what I'm gonna take action on and what I'm not gonna take action on.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've my assumption is you have a similar thing, especially when you got multiple users, you're probably getting a large volume of feedback.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And some of it, even though you could do it, could take you off mission.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe it's a two-part question.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Does that happen to you?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And how do what's your the decision-making process or filter around so that you can better harness your energy and your resources to focus on the most impactful stuff?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So here we'll go back to you know, some of the lean concepts, which is the RCA concept, root cause analysis, and often not getting caught in on symptoms, doing your five Ys, seven wise, ten wise, however many Ys it takes, NYs, right, to get to the root cause and know that it is a so acting on any feedback that will be that can be linked or that's revealing a pattern again or a root problem is what is critical.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: There are edge cases, you know, prioritization is super important, and you need to know what is number one, severity one versus severity three.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, addressing and acting on a feedback that's revealing a pattern, not just good to have, isolated preferences, isn't that something that's super important to decipher before like is it a one-off, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a one person's wish list, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it something that oh my god, this is a taking time bomb you gotta take care of it.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Five other people I don't know, have you need to pay attention, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Patterns, they signal the truth, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Everything outside are outliers, they will they will have context to it, but recognizing those patterns is how we think about it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what we chase, right?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: For example, like you know, I prefer blue versus green because the outfit is different, like that's vague.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's something that you can ignore.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I am not able to move forward because of this, likely is impacting other people too, and that's something that you need to prioritize and know what you need to chase, right?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's there could be someone who will be who's very loud about I don't like blue, and there is someone who's like, Oh yeah, I'll I'll go with it, you know, and and be there.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's how patterns, patterns like constantly chasing that.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing, Jesse, I think probably we spoke about this before too.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: But high impact, impact versus effort matrix is like my go-to thing.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love it, I love it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like that matrix, just use it wherever.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, trust me, believe me, take a napkin wherever, if you're in a cafe, pick up and just put things there in that matrix, it just clears your mind so well.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: High impact, low effort, immediately jump on it.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: High impact, high effort, plan, and of course, go back, deprioritize.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly how you know you as I said, we we are not acting on a feedback just because you gave me feedback.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking for patterns, and then we are acting on it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh super, super valuable practical insight that you just offered.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna summarize it for the listener.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: We got feedback, you don't like be careful overreacting to every bit of feedback because some of it could be outliers, it's a nice to have, it's a preference, but not necessarily like a make or break deal.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: But look, recognizing the patterns when you see a pattern of feedback pointing at an issue, pay attention, do some root cause analysis, five, 10, 12, 30, whys, whatever it is.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Why is this happening?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: What is the root cause of this symptom?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then take action there.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then lastly, which I totally, it's part of my religion, is impact and effort.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: High impact, low effort, I'm gonna do that all day, every day because I'm a dopamine fiend and it makes me feel good.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Low impact, high effort, I ain't gonna do that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just I'm just not gonna do those things.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: So beautiful, beautiful filters.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: We got a few more minutes.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I got I was stalking the Merlin AI website because I've been able to see the evolution of the website since you know the last time we talked or we interviewed two years ago.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And there's two words that I saw over and over again that really stood out to me and like it triggered my curiosity.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure you've got it, you know, folks, go to the website merlinai.co, so you can see what's going on, amazing stuff.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like there's you got the real heart behind what those words are.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the words was orchestration, and the other one was operational intelligence, which I love the words.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like I understand intuitively what you're pointing at and what problem you're solving.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: But why were those words selected?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: What was what's the purpose and intent behind orchestration and behind operational intelligence and the way it comes together in terms of how you serve Merlin AI users out there?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I use the word orchestration very uniquely because think about it, Jesse.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: We as construction, like our folks of construction, we are a fragmented industry, aren't we?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Back office somewhere else, they come to office.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Site work is happening on site, the architect is sitting somewhere else.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, talk about it, talk more.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we all sit in our own places, in our own offices, in our own rooms on site.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And who's on the hot seat?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: People who are actually doing the job on site, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we are a fragmented industry, and uh throwing fragmented software at us hasn't helped us.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: We we are we are a trillion dollar industry, come on.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: We deserve better.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, ma'am.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: That that's where that whole word of orchestration, you know, that word orchestration comes in.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because isn't that the most important thing when you are working with teams that sit in hundred different places and are trying to build a home or building a high-rise, a mid-rise, a remote remodel happening?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: How hard it it is, imagine for the teams that's working behind the scenes tirelessly, trying to make that happen, and how hard it is for business owners to lose money, have seen shortages, have delays, all of that just been part and parcel.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And now it has just like it's been normalized to the extent that you know you always add buffer to your you know estimates, like, okay, I I know I'm not gonna do this on time.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how you know it's yeah, it's it's sad, but that's true.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so what we mean is coordination of every single moving part that needs to happen to make a project in real time.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's like what we are doing is we are running workflows across all these systems and stakeholders, whether it's talking about procurement, whether it's talking about estimate takeoff creation, whether it's talking about pricing, whether it's talking about coordinating between your subs and suppliers and your field folks, managing any dependencies.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: We want to ensure nothing falls through cracks.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: But we are not just here to track.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, that's where the ops intelligence comes in.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: We want to tell you what's coming next.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: We don't just want to tell you, oh, sorry, it's can it's delayed.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, we want to tell you that it will be delayed, do something about it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we want to tell you which who are those suppliers that you're in subs you're working with have been reliable.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Where are those cost overruns happening so you don't repeat that again?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Those change orders.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: How is your sequencing impacting your timelines?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we come in.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you know those two go together hand in hand.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the real power.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not just to show you what's happening, understand what's happening, alert you ahead of time, tell you what should happen, and then execute it.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's like if I had to put it in one line, like in a few words, I would say orchestration ensures that everything is running, and operational intelligence will ensure that it runs better every single time.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so back to the feedback loops, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is yep, a variation, something hit, acceleration, delay, whatever.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cycle.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: What can we do to make the next cycle better?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: How can we adjust?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I love that because I've worked with people, and I'm sure you have too, is probably where the the the insight is you got the insight to design into the product.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've worked with not a bunch, but I've worked with a lot of people that were really great at the orchestration, like finding out, checking, making sure you know things are clicking.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: But when it came to like how do we respond, adapt, and adjust to minimize the impact or to leverage the variation for optimal outcomes, they couldn't do that part because their brain was already consumed with the orchestration.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And in the inverse, I think I was one of the the on the other side, because I didn't care about that, just I'll deal with it.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: The operational intelligence in terms of like, okay, this didn't happen, this didn't happen, this is happening, this is happening, so we can shift and adjust to exploit these situations and absorb the impact of these other things.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't have any interest at all in the orchestration of the thing.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so what and it took me hours, and all you see all my highlights, Niha?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Many, many gray hairs came from that.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Mine too.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: You got so too.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I'm hearing is Merlin AI helps do the heavy lifting of all of that, and then and my brain helped gives me bandwidth to be better connected out there with the human beings that facilitate the transformation of all the materials and information into something of utility.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Did it capture it right?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: You absolutely did.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you are amazing.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, Sneeha, I'm gonna we got limited time.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: I wish we could talk for days, and I think you know what?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even gonna wish.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: I know we're gonna continue having conversations.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do my best to continue contributing so that I don't lose favor and access to you because you gotta you're you're big time, right?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're a celebrity, you're taking time out of your day to hang out with me.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, no, you always have time for you, Jesse.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: You have seen full journey, you have still seen us from the start.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: We always catch up.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna ask you the same closing question.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if there's any change or expansion to your answer because now I don't know how many times you probably don't hear this enough.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna assume that you don't.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: But you are a powerful, magnificent human being.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: You care for your family, you treat me the exact same way that you treated me back when we first connected, and you really don't have to.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Your insights, your intellect, your energy, you are sharing to make the industry better.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so, because of that, I'm sure that your answer is going to be extremely moving, just like the last time.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, here's the question: What is the promise you are intended to be?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: I have to think this.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have to think this a little bit.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: But do you remember my answer from last time?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to research it and I totally blanked out on it.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I don't remember too, but you know, now that you say this, Jesse, I am intrigued to actually go back and listen to myself.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: So much and you know, all for good, I have evolved as a person also on many levels.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: So just as, you know, if if you have to take it super raw from me, I I'll probably stick to the same thing.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still my passion hasn't gone anywhere, the fire hasn't gone anywhere.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here to still turn construction from that chaotic, you know, relying on humans a lot for coordination while it is practically not feasible.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: We are not allowing our people to be more productive and also progress with technology.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I am still leaning into building that system that just works.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my promise is to remove every single friction from how the real world gets built and make that execution, I would say, predictable, very predictable, scalable, and of course intelligent.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is happening, it is happening, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, my my personal vision is to you know, all of this mess and fragmentation that's happening, just bring it back again.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: We go back to what I said, keep it simple.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, again, operational intelligence and orchestration.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: My job is to replace all of the hundred thousand systems that we are using to build one that is able to think, decide, execute.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I'm gonna go back and listen to your answer to the last one.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: I am going back to listen to myself as well.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what did I say?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: But this is top of mind right now.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's perfect, like it's totally aligned with everything that you're doing and all the ways that you serve the industry and make the world a better place for me.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I know many, many other people out there.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have fun?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of fun.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: I always have fun chatting with you.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: You actually challenge me in ways to think in, you know, to go deep, to think about stuff that I probably, you know, there's so much happening, so much action happening that you just don't sit down and think and think deeply.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Before you go, I want to thank you for spending part of your day with me.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Your time and attention mean a ton.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because of listeners like you that this podcast even exists.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the Learnings and Missteps podcast so you never miss an episode and you get extra credit if you share it with your friends.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: Also, if you want even more insights on leadership, personal growth, communication, you know, all those fancy magical things, you can sign up for my newsletter on LinkedIn because I got a newsletter that goes out every single Monday.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: All the resources I share there are designed to help you put yourself first so that you can leave this world better than you found it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a digital copy of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's sitting there waiting for you on my website.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: All you gotta do is do the click and do the download and you get the free PDF.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want even more bonus points, share that PDF with somebody you know or the family of somebody you know that is currently struggling with self-destructive behavior.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: That would be the ultimate gift for me.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: While you're there, do some exploring of the trainings, workshops, and services that are designed to enhance your performance at home and at work.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: Just click the link in the show notes to check it out.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks again for listening.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Take care of yourself, and I'll see you on the next episode.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Peace.