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Game devs scramble to join Nintendo Switch 2 gold rush · The Game Business Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo Switch 2 is here.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: We have a new Mario Kart,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: a new Donkey Kong,
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo's answer to Discord,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: and about a thousand third-party games.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: How are analysts feeling about the price?
• 0:11
  What does retail think,
• 0:12
  and does anyone even buy third-party games on Nintendo?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: All this and more in today's episode of The Game Business Show.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Hello,
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: and welcome to The Game Business Show,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: your guide to the goings on in the global video game industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: We've only been going for about a week now.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if this is your first show,
• 0:33
  do head to thegamebusiness.com and check out some of the
• 0:35
  coverage we've done.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: We've interviewed Netflix Games.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: We've interviewed the co-founder of Blizzard.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: We've revealed the potential impact of GTA 6 on the market.
• 0:43
  We've spoken to numerous leading game investors on the state of
• 0:46
  the market.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's loads up there already.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: So do check out thegamebusiness.com.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is our news and analysis show.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: We do this once a week.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: And each week I invite a special guest to co-host the show with me.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: And this week it's the writer,
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: host,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: producer from GameSpot,
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Giant Bomb and the Friends Per Second podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's Lucy James.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, Lucy.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hi.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's been your day.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, very busy day, very early start here on the West Coast.
• 1:12
  A lovely 6am Nintendo Direct to wake up to,
• 1:15
  but it was a very interesting one.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I really expected it to go the way it did, but here we are.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's go on then.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: What surprised you?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: I really thought there'd be more first party from Nintendo.
• 1:29
  I was actually very surprised that they were quite restrained
• 1:34
  in what they did have
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: and what they did show,
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: obviously leading with Mario Kart World,
• 1:38
  ending with Donkey Kong and Kirby and a couple of other things
• 1:42
  speckled in throughout.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: But it was very much this big showcase about,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 1:46
  we heard your complaints about third party on the Switch and
• 1:49
  that's not the case
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: for Switch 2.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Look, we've got Miyazaki making an exclusive one for us.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's your Bloodborne PC release.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you said I'm wearing an Elden Ring shirt as we speak.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it was a very interesting direct.
• 2:06
  I think obviously the big elephant in the room was they didn't
• 2:08
  announce price,
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: but they did announce it shortly after.
• 2:11
  And there's a lot of turmoil about tariffs and the global state
• 2:15
  of things.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: we'll definitely talk about that pricing.
• 2:21
  Well,
• 2:22
  on the one hand,
• 2:23
  you need to look at Nintendo holistically these days because...
• 2:27
  I think we look at Switch 1 when that launched and there was a
• 2:29
  Mario and a Zelda
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: and a Mario Kart and a Splatoon.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it was really, it was like a rapid fire of video game giants.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Switch 2 sort of goes from actually a successful console.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: And if you look at the lineup for the year,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: they've got Metroid Prime 4,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: which is cross-generation.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: They've got Pokemon ZA, which is cross-generation.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: They've got this Donkey Kong game.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: They've got Mario Kart.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: And actually...
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's a pretty strong first part.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's great when you look at it that way.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: But you're right.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was expecting, I think, the lack of a Mario.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a thing with Mario Kart.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: Mario Kart World looked amazing and I thought it looked brilliant.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: We'll talk about the price of it in a minute.
• 3:05
  But I always have a theory of Mario Kart that is actually
• 3:09
  everybody's second game.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: There has to be a first game.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's everybody's second game, by the way.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody's second game.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: But you normally need another game to bring people in.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it was Breath of the Wild for the Switch.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Or it may have been Mario Odyssey if you came in late.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: It might have been Smash Brothers.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: It might have been Animal Crossing.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: But then you get Mario Kart as well.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so my thing with it was...
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Leading with Mario Kart seems a bit strong,
• 3:35
  but it seems a lot more involved this time with the open world
• 3:39
  explorationary bits.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: I said this on Giant Bomb when we were recording, but I felt...
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: kind of half...
• 3:48
  I was excited about the concept of New Mario Kart because I
• 3:50
  played so much of it
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: when it originally came out.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of one of those games that I always dip back into.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: But when they showed different costumes,
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like The Simpsons,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 4:00
  but she's got a new hat with Malibu's Daisy when I saw Peach
• 4:03
  with all the different costumes.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know that's the kind of stuff that I will go for.
• 4:08
  And I'm excited about new cups,
• 4:12
  new courses,
• 4:13
  new characters to play as,
• 4:14
  obviously,
• 4:15
  but...
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: It felt also like a very good vehicle,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: haha,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: no pun intended,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: to segue into game chat,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: the C button and it's Discord like,
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: we'll kick off with this game that's,
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: got multiplayer at the heart of it,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: both local and online.
• 4:32
  And then we can talk about the fact that we've,
• 4:34
  Nintendo's invented Discord.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Nintendo's invented Zoom team meetings in Mario Kart.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing is,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: when Nintendo does do stuff like this,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: and I know that there's a little bit of derision online,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: but it's a mainstream product switch.
• 4:51
  It's kids coming home from school,
• 4:53
  jumping online and their friends and playing.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's very much that scene.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that...
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: gamers have a certain view on this stuff.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: But when Nintendo do it, it's taking it to a different sort of audience.
• 5:04
  Perhaps this is new,
• 5:05
  but yeah,
• 5:07
  when their big feature was,
• 5:08
  we've got game chat.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I had a few little things you notice.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: They've gone very red.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: The cartridges are very red.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, I don't like the box.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like the box art.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's too much red.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Very red.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: I also was a bit surprised by the lack of Ubisoft.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Star Wars Outlaws cropped up.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: But no Rabbids, no Just Dance was a surprising move.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: Ubisoft were normally one of the first ones to make a big,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: we are supporting this from day one.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure they are.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's just they didn't get much of a starring role in the direct.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's to do with them.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Their current situation.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: Bigger fish to fry,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 5:48
  making sure that Assassin's gets out the door and that the
• 5:51
  stuff with Tencent gets
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: squared away.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I agree.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was very surprising not to see more Ubisoft support.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: EA was there in full force.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Take-Two had like five games.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the thing.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, the one that I was most impressed.
• 6:04
  One thing that I think from a business angle talks a lot about
• 6:07
  where Nintendo is
• 6:08
  today versus where they are 2017 is the fact that they launched
• 6:11
  their big game
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: outside of Mario Kart was Donkey Kong.
• 6:15
  And we talk about the Switch 1 success by how many units of
• 6:19
  game consoles it sold.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: So they're on 150 million now.
• 6:21
  They're probably going to become the biggest Nintendo console
• 6:24
  of all time.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: But actually,
• 6:27
  what is a real indicator of how big Nintendo has got is how big
• 6:30
  their brands have become.
• 6:31
  So Mario is bigger today than it was,
• 6:35
  you know,
• 6:35
  eight years ago,
• 6:35
  much bigger.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: Zelda, you know, Zelda Breath of the Wild has sold, I think it's now...
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: three times as many units might have been four actually as the previous
• 6:48
  best-selling zelda game before this generation which was um
• 6:50
  twilight princess um
• 6:53
  that franchise has tripled in size luigi's mansion's tripled in
• 6:55
  size animal
• 6:56
  crossings doubled in size mario karts doubled in size like as a
• 6:59
  franchises have got
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: bigger
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo have taken them into movies.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: They've taken them into theme parks.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: In fact,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo's slate last year,
• 7:06
  we talk about it being a quiet release slate back in 2024 for
• 7:09
  Nintendo with Echoes
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: of Wisdom being probably the biggest game they released,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: the Zelda game.
• 7:13
  But actually,
• 7:14
  they also released a museum and an alarm clock and an expansion
• 7:18
  to a theme park.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that is what they are today.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: They are...
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: They are a games company, but they are an entertainment business.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: They are a new Disney.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: And when you start looking at the games that haven't yet grown,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: every franchise grew,
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Pikmin grew,
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Fire Emblem grew,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Kirby grew.
• 7:35
  But when you look at the brands that actually Nintendo have
• 7:37
  still got to develop,
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Metroid,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: to a smaller extent,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: not the biggest brand in the world,
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: but Metroid Dreads did okay.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: It did pretty good, actually.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: But...
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: didn't radically change that series.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: So there's Metroid Prime 4 might be a big bet for them.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: But actually,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Donkey Kong,
• 7:50
  there wasn't an original Donkey Kong game on the last
• 7:53
  generation of the Switch 1 generation,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: the current generation.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: This is a big new Donkey Kong game.
• 7:58
  They've actually expanded their theme park with a Donkey Kong
• 8:01
  theme park expansion.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Donkey Kong had a major role in the Mario movie.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: He's getting a movie.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so they are growing that IP and this is the game.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Normally we see it the other way around.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Normally we see the game come first and they develop the IP.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Here they are.
• 8:15
  They've been growing Donkey Kong as a character over the
• 8:19
  multiple entertainment properties,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: I guess.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: And now this is the gameplay.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what Nintendo is about.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I felt Donkey Kong Bonanza is interesting.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, where was a 3D Mario?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone was thinking, hey, we're all expecting it.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it was missing.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 8:36
  But I mean,
• 8:37
  look,
• 8:38
  I'm kind of not glad because I would love another 3D Mario.
• 8:41
  But also at the point where my interest in those other brands
• 8:45
  that I wouldn't
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: gravitate towards is now piqued.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I honestly don't think I would be playing a Donkey Kong game.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like an older version of Nintendo.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think Nintendo has been very good at crafting its image,
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: raising the profile of these other titles and properties,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: and then,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: ending on a Donkey Kong game that normally,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I would have been that interested in,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: but now I'm like,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Donkey Kong,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: maybe this is the time.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because I never really grew up with Nintendo.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's the thing.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so look at me now.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, Donkey Kong fan.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, and it's a different Donkey Kong.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's the first redesigned they've had since Rare.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Got their hands on the franchise back in 1994,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: which is...
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a relaunch for that character.
• 9:30
  So I think that was quite an interesting thing from a business
• 9:32
  angle in terms of
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: what Nintendo are doing.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: In terms of the price...
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just going to pause my chat with Lucy for a moment because something
• 9:42
  significant happened shortly after we recorded our show and I
• 9:45
  felt it important to
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: add it in here.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that significant thing was,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: the US government's tariffs it has imposed upon the world.
• 9:53
  Those included a 46% tariff on goods coming out of Vietnam when
• 9:57
  Nintendo Switch 2
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: is manufactured,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: plus a 24% tariff from Japan when Nintendo Switch 2 cartridges are made.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's possible,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: even likely,
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo had baked in the potential impact of tariffs into its pricing.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And if that's the case,
• 10:11
  Nintendo appears to have spread that cost globally rather than
• 10:14
  specifically on US consumers.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: US is Nintendo's biggest market.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Of course,
• 10:18
  it's possible they didn't do that and that pricing may need to
• 10:21
  increase again in
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: the US.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: We will have to see.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: But I wanted to make sure I added that in.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I shall unpause and get back to our chat with Lucy.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I think the price of the console is fine.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: How much is it in the UK?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's £396.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, $450 in America.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: $330 for the Japan region-locked version.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's weird.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: The analysts beforehand, everyone was expecting between $399 and $499.
• 10:50
  $399 would have been a really good price and $499 would have been...
• 10:56
  Oh,
• 10:56
  that's quite high.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: So there's sort of one in the middle.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of those things where like, ah, analysts haven't shifted.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Ampere still expects 13 million units sold in 2025.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: So Kana still expects 4.3 million units sold in the US this year.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: That remains the same.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: I actually emailed Michael Pachter.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: You'll love this, Lucy.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I emailed Michael Pachter.
• 11:13
  Every analyst I emailed came back with this long sort of Q&As
• 11:18
  and deep insight into
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: how they see the switch market.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Michael Paptor replied with this, just this, 18 million in 12 months.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: That was it.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: I emailed him afterwards and said, anything changed now with the price?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: He went, no.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: They think it's fine.
• 11:38
  The price of the games though,
• 11:40
  I mean,
• 11:40
  this is where things surprise me a little bit.
• 11:46
  The key...
• 11:46
  Okay,
• 11:47
  there is an element of $60 in 2017 is now just under $80 today.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: So there is an element of inflation.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's still,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: though,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: whether or not it's justifiable from a pure numbers point of view,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: business point of view,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: that doesn't stop it from being a little bit hard to swallow,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: where people's money is so tight and things are so difficult.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: The thing that surprises me the most...
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: actually,
• 12:10
  is the fact that Nintendo have gone cheaper with the digital
• 12:13
  games over the
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: physical games.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: In the past,
• 12:16
  publishers and platform owners have been fearful of doing this
• 12:18
  because they don't
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: want to lose shelf space at retailers.
• 12:21
  Retailers would be less likely to support a game that was
• 12:24
  cheaper to download than
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: it is to buy in a box.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: But here, Nintendo have gone out of it right from the start.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: And this is actually a real opportunity for Nintendo digital.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at sales of new games on Nintendo Switch,
• 12:35
  Across Europe,
• 12:36
  80% of game sales on Nintendo Switch for new launches,
• 12:41
  80% of them are physical.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: So that's obviously games that are released digital and physically.
• 12:46
  Digital is one of the driving forces behind the revenue growth
• 12:48
  for the games
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: companies over the last decade.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And Nintendo have still got loads and loads of room to grow here.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: we're talking about digital download sales,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: but you can also DLC and microtransactions are part of that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: So encouraging users to...
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Whether they're doing that for this reason or not,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: if it does encourage users to download more over buying physical,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: it's a potential win for Nintendo,
• 13:08
  even if they don't sell as many Switch 2 consoles as they sold
• 13:12
  Switch 1 consoles.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: Also,
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: the physical games markets had a really tough time,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: and there were fewer and fewer retailers selling games.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Some retailers only sell Nintendo games these days.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: And Funko Pops.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: And Funko Pops.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Funko Pops and Nintendo games, basically, is what it is.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Lego sometimes.
• 13:28
  So there's probably a need for Nintendo to try and convert
• 13:30
  users from physical to
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: digital purely to protect themselves from fading retail base.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I was taken aback by it, and there's some...
• 13:40
  understandably um angry comments i think see on social media
• 13:44
  around that pricing
• 13:46
  but this is nintendo i don't know how much how much the alarm
• 13:48
  clock was in the us
• 13:49
  but that was not a cheap alarm clock alarm oh yeah i it's also
• 13:56
  if you look into the
• 13:56
  pricing for switch 2 is what what the upgrade paths and
• 14:01
  everything for things um
• 14:03
  like zelda that's going to have uh more expanded features and
• 14:06
  switch 2 and
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: putting a price on that is also rubbing people up the wrong way.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: When it comes to buying Switch games,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: though,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: both physical and digital,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think any other company holds their value like Nintendo.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: It is so rare to see Nintendo games on sale digitally or physically.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Even go to CEX or another secondhand retailer,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: they are always much,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: much higher than Xbox or PlayStation.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so
• 14:33
  I think that's kind of also makes it a harder pill to swallow
• 14:36
  when you're like,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: you've kind of been selling mostly full price for all this time.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: Last time Nintendo charged something that consumers went,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: this is too expensive,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: was the 3DS and Nintendo reacted to that immediately.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: So if it,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Consumers don't swallow it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And the prices aren't the same.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I think it was $80 plus for Mario Kart World.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: But Donkey Kong is less money.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's cheaper.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: So it does feel like maybe it's specific to that title.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess the thing is,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: with the physical prices being so much higher than digital,
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to find out how do physical stores feel about it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I had a chance to grab a few minutes with Nick Aaron,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: who is the managing director of Game in the UK,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: to get his reaction.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what he said.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Nick.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the show.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: So we've just seen the Switch 2 video.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: What did you make of it?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it looked fantastic.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's everything that we wanted it to be, right?
• 15:29
  It's the first time ever Nintendo have done a newer version of
• 15:36
  their console,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: a two rather than a brand new one altogether.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it done everything we wanted to do,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: new features,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: obviously better games,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: better graphics,
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: better looking games.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was great.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was brilliant.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait for it to launch.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I thought the price point was good as well.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people guessing out there it was going to be really expensive.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think considering,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:02
  the next generation of consorts come along and the standard
• 16:04
  version still being
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: under £400,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's going to be fantastic.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really pleased with it.
• 16:10
  There's some speculation that maybe the tariffs had something
• 16:13
  to do with the pricing level.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't think it was too bad, the hardware, to be honest.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, not the hardware, no.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the software, obviously Mario Kart at £75, it seems expensive.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I was a Nintendo 64 customer,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: and I remember walking to Woolworths and spending £50 on Mario 64,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: and that was nearly 30 years ago.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think of it like that...
• 16:39
  you know you think of it like that you know games good and
• 16:42
  games need to get more
• 16:43
  expensive i mean i say this quite a lot you know if we're as a
• 16:46
  retailer we're
• 16:46
  selling games for the same prices we were selling them 10 years
• 16:49
  ago um our prices
• 16:51
  keep going up and as does publishers prices keep going up you
• 16:53
  know the price of
• 16:54
  games does need to increase so um you know bold move 75 pound
• 16:59
  um but you know it
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: does need to happen yeah
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: I remember buying Turok on the N64 for £70.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And virtual racing on the Mega Drive.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: That was another one that was like £70 back in the day as well.
• 17:13
  I was surprised to see the digital game prices cheaper than the
• 17:17
  physical game prices.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, look.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a challenge, I think, because that is a bold move.
• 17:25
  You know,
• 17:26
  Nintendo are predominantly physical and are proud to be physical.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And to make that move before PlayStation and Xbox, that digital games...
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: will be cheaper than physical is a bold move.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it will be a bit of a challenge to us as a retailer.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And also,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: it's a bit of a tough message for a customer that,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: there's difference in prices if they prefer physical.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll be interesting to see how it goes.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not going to...
• 18:01
  stop us in terms of the support we're going to give um switch
• 18:03
  to and nintendo um
• 18:06
  and hopefully it won't have too much of an effect on physical
• 18:09
  sales because um
• 18:10
  obviously retailer physical is much is important to me but you
• 18:13
  know i'm a strong
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: believer that gaming
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's an important media that needs to stay physical.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Spending £75 on a product,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: £70 on a product,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: needs that tangible value that can sit on a shelf,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: be a collection.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully this strategy doesn't impact that.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: I have to wonder what motivated the decision,
• 18:36
  whether it's the cost of the cartridges or maybe it was the US
• 18:39
  government tariffs
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: and they're trying to protect themselves from that.
• 18:42
  I mean,
• 18:42
  we could probably hazard loads of guesses,
• 18:44
  desire to push digital more.
• 18:46
  But yeah,
• 18:47
  as I know,
• 18:47
  Nintendo are like a really big supporter of physical retail.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:50
  Because their audience is a little bit broader and it's
• 18:52
  important to them.
• 18:54
  indeed yeah i mean you know i mean you i think you know in the
• 18:58
  generation that
• 18:59
  we're in especially xbox and playstation at this point in time
• 19:02
  everything should be
• 19:03
  a lot cheaper than when it launched but it's gone up the world
• 19:06
  is so much different
• 19:07
  to any other console cycle um and nintendo must be facing the
• 19:10
  same challenges and
• 19:11
  to be a cartridge based format obviously bigger cartridges
• 19:14
  required um than on the
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: switch for the size of the newer games
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: I understand it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a bold move to make.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: and what's,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: obviously,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure if you're going to give me a number,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: but what does stock look like?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: Are you feeling good about it or is it tight?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: look,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: stock is,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: there's never enough of a new console,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: but that's what makes them exciting.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be tight.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: When we go on pre-order,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: we'll be gone within,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: minutes,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: not hours,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: within minutes,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I assume.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:44
  yeah it's going to be there'll be there'll be huge demand um i
• 19:48
  see some of our
• 19:49
  competitors have gone live already and sold out um so uh yeah i
• 19:54
  think that the
• 19:54
  demand is there and there won't be enough enough slot to
• 19:57
  fulfill it so people are
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: going to need to be quick
• 19:59
  um and you talked about yeah the direct was great but any
• 20:02
  particular standout
• 20:03
  products to the things that surprised you think well that'll do
• 20:05
  well or that
• 20:06
  excited you as a yeah i really really liked where mario world
• 20:09
  has gone um you know
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: you think mario's been around for a long time and to be off track
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: and that whole much more of exploring and sort of like,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: driving between the tracks and the open world,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: bring it much more to,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: modern expectations of gaming nowadays.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, no, I really like that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love the chat feature as well,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: when people were playing different games,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: they can pop up,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: like me and you were chatting now,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: and you sit there playing,
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: whether you're playing together,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: the same game,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: but not together,
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: or a different game completely.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was really, really cool when,
• 20:45
  you know really you know really really nintendo to bring
• 20:47
  something new to the
• 20:48
  market that we've not we've not seen before so and that was
• 20:51
  really good to see yeah
• 20:53
  i was quite i thought maybe you might be excited for donkey
• 20:54
  kong but only because
• 20:55
  nintendo have been up to you know developing their ip of their
• 20:58
  franchise their
• 20:59
  brands donkey kong is probably one that they haven't fully
• 21:01
  developed yet they're
• 21:02
  yeah no absolutely right yeah no i think you know on the switch
• 21:05
  that was just you
• 21:05
  know remakes and um you know we've not had a brand new donkey
• 21:09
  kong game for a long
• 21:09
  long time so no it was really good we all watched it together
• 21:12
  in the office all
• 21:13
  sitting there and uh and we were really yeah some really big
• 21:16
  donkey kong fans uh
• 21:18
  that are really pleased to see that as the closing closing
• 21:20
  product so no you're
• 21:21
  right that's a good one as well hopefully some good merchandise
• 21:24
  to go with that new
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: design um
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thanks, Nick.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I needed to grab you for.
• 21:28
  I know you've got to get back to getting the pre-orders live
• 21:30
  and getting that sorted out.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for your time and good luck with it.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that was Nick there from Game.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, was there anything else that stood out?
• 21:41
  I tell you what,
• 21:43
  From Software is one of the other hero titles was not on my
• 21:48
  bingo card.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Who is publishing that?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Is it Nintendo or is it From Software themselves?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't think Bandai is on that trailer at all.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, and they did say it was exclusive to Nintendo Switch, too.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I wouldn't be surprised if it is Nintendo publishing it.
• 22:03
  But we'll have a big section later on all about third-party
• 22:07
  opportunity there on Switch.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: But that was the game that I did not see coming at all.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo had another game,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: I've forgotten the name of it now,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: where you used the controllers like mice.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: That was classic.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo Oddity.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Dragon.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Not Dragon Drop.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: Dragon Drive.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was like this generation's arms.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Meets Rocket League.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: I forgot the Smash Brothers director's name.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, Sakurai?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: when Sakurai said,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: I want to make a new Kirby Air Riders game,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure Nintendo went,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: can you not?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Can you do us another Smash?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, no, no.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: I made a whole video series on YouTube about that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: But he can do what he wants.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: So that's certainly interesting.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: As I say,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: there's a lot of conversation around,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: will Switch 1,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Switch 2 do better than Switch 1?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: We've been asking developers,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: almost everyone we've spoken to,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: we've had this fun question at the end of our interviews where we go,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: we ask a bunch of fun questions and one of them is,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: will Switch 2 outsell Switch 1?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And the answers are almost all no.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: And if there's good reasons for people to be skeptical about that,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Switch 1 sold obviously huge amounts of consoles,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: but there's a few advantages Switch 1 has that Switch 2 won't have.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: One of those advantages is the pandemic, which is still weird to say.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you could not escape Animal Crossing.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:33
  Landed at the,
• 23:34
  you know,
• 23:35
  it was a generational shift for PlayStation and Xbox.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: They were going from one console to the other.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: So then they weren't really in a position to capitalize on that.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo did.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think they sold over 30 million consoles.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Massive.
• 23:45
  And peripherals for them too,
• 23:47
  because Ring Fit came out at the end,
• 23:49
  was it end of 2019?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: And then in the pandemic,
• 23:52
  no one could go to the gym anymore and Ring Fit became
• 23:54
  extremely hard to find for months.
• 23:56
  It was a massive year for Nintendo and that accelerated sales
• 23:59
  for them for two solid years.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was a real big driver for them.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: The Animal Crossing you mentioned, yeah, it was just real big.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: The other one is that because their previous console failed,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: because the Wii was a failure,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: they had this bank of games that not many people have played.
• 24:12
  They could dust off,
• 24:13
  spruce up and release like a AAA title,
• 24:15
  like Mario 3D World.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Plus Bowser's Fury was a big hit.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Mario Kart 8, obviously, was that game.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: And Breath of the Wild was a Wii U title.
• 24:24
  There's so many of the big hits on Switch were titles from the
• 24:29
  previous generation
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: that were up to desktop.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: They don't really have that privilege anymore.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have...
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: a huge bank of old games.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Nintendo will always re-release old games and spruce them up.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's just what that's part of their MO,
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: but they don't have an easy,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: a Mario game sitting in their back pocket that nobody played.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: So they won't have that advantage either.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I think there's a lot of expectation.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: This might be a tougher generation for them.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: They're leaning increasingly on third parties.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: They are working with third parties on
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: Original games as well as games based on their IP as well.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: I know that.
• 24:58
  They've also got to try and manage the fact they've got a lot
• 25:00
  of Switch 1,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: active Switch 1 players and convert those across.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: So if people expect Switch 2 to do as well as Switch 1,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think that is obviously eight years is a long time,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: a generation is a long time,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: so anything can happen.
• 25:16
  Where I'm optimistic about Nintendo,
• 25:19
  though,
• 25:19
  is the fact that digital growth is so low.
• 25:22
  They've got financial opportunities there,
• 25:24
  commercial opportunities there.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it is in those movies.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: We already know one of their big releases next year is a Mario movie.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: The Abilator is a Zelda movie.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the company's heading towards.
• 25:34
  Really what Switch 2 needs to do is continue Nintendo's ability
• 25:39
  to develop its brands.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's a really corporate thing to say.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, but you are completely right.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: People do form attachments to the box,
• 25:48
  but really they form attachments to the characters and they're
• 25:51
  going to associate Mario,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Zelda,
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: Donkey Kong,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Bowser,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: whoever,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: with the box and that just,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: rising tide,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: all ships,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: etc.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about the third party thing.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Just absolute onslaught of third party games.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Can we start with how little Squishy Time Hollow Knight Silksong goes?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: A game that's kind of becoming a meme in the way that it just,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: it was supposed to be out.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: When was it?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was in a Summer Game Fest showcase that Xbox put on,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: and they said,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: all of these games will be coming out in the next 12 months.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: The 12 months came and went,
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: and then I think we had another year on top of that,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: and there have been rumblings,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: and then,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: it just quietly pops up for a few 5,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: 10 seconds,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: and then goodbye.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely 25 still.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: I was surprised by a lot of what I saw.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was quite adult stuff.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think this is like hardcore gamer stuff.
• 26:44
  And I,
• 26:44
  you know,
• 26:45
  not just the From Software game,
• 26:46
  but obviously Alderman was there.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Cyberpunk was there.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: the one that surprised me most,
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: because Nintendo's doing a tie-in,
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: is Hitman World of Assassination.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Incredible game.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: One of my favorite games, I think, of all time.
• 26:59
  But the fact that they're doing Mario and Luigi themed items to
• 27:03
  go in that game is
• 27:04
  so surprising to me because we talk about how Nintendo has been
• 27:07
  using its brand and
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: they are always so careful and so family friendly.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: And to put,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: a little green suit or whatever in Hitman was quite a surprise for me.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 27:20
  I'd argue that's even more surprising when they gave them guns
• 27:24
  in Mario and Rabbids.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the thing.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Last year, I interviewed Firaxis and it was around Civilization 7.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you remember, it was only a couple of months ago.
• 27:34
  Civilization 7 came out the same time on Switch as it came out
• 27:37
  on all the other platforms.
• 27:38
  Now,
• 27:38
  normally,
• 27:39
  Firaxis released their games on PC and then reported to other machines.
• 27:42
  So I asked them about this and the Switch was the reason why
• 27:45
  they did that multi-format release.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, loads of people bought Civilization 6 on the Switch.
• 27:53
  And according to Firaxis,
• 27:54
  a lot of those players were people that already owned it on PC.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: They just wanted to take it on the go with them.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was a big iPad game too, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know a lot of people who played Civ on iPad.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 28:04
  so they started to see this phenomena of actually the people
• 28:07
  who are playing Civ on
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: these platforms.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: It isn't a new audience.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: There is a new audience there, obviously, as well.
• 28:12
  But actually,
• 28:13
  it's the existing audience as well that just want to keep playing.
• 28:16
  And when engagement is such an important metric for game
• 28:18
  developers these days,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: you've got these game companies that are going,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: hang on,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: let's port these games to Switch.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: And of course,
• 28:26
  Steam Deck taps into that phenomenon as well of the ability to
• 28:28
  be able to take your
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: core games on the go.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: So that audience is an audience of slightly more hardcore gamers.
• 28:35
  It's also the fact that I often forget about this because I
• 28:37
  always relate things to myself.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: When I grew up and I had to say to my mum,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: I want a new Mario Kart game,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: my mum would go,
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: what's wrong with an old Mario Kart game?
• 28:46
  My kids don't need to say that to me because I know why you
• 28:50
  want a new Mario Kart
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: because I grew up in that generation.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: And
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at some of the best-selling third-party games on Switch,
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: games that did very well on Switch,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: GTA,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: the original trilogy,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: they do really well on Switch.
• 29:03
  There's not something that would have been the case 20 years
• 29:05
  ago on Nintendo platforms then.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: My theory is those are parents.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Those who have kids.
• 29:12
  They bought them a games console for their kids,
• 29:13
  but they used to game as well.
• 29:15
  You've got an audience of people now on Nintendo who probably
• 29:19
  didn't have a
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: generation or two ago.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: who are more interested in these sort of experiences.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I think there is an audience for this stuff.
• 29:27
  I'm not surprised to see developers going and putting those
• 29:30
  sort of games on there,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: and I think they've seen success with it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think they're expecting PlayStation numbers or Xbox numbers,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: but it is an opportunity for them.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: For example,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: I was a big Overwatch player,
• 29:41
  but I would never ever play it on Switch or I'd never play Apex
• 29:43
  on Switch because
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: it always used to be the worst place to play your third-party games.
• 29:48
  And so it is so interesting to me that they are really doubling
• 29:51
  down on third-party
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: and having people like Randy Pitchford,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: having Joseph Farris,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: and having folks from 4Xs to come in and say,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: no,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: no,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: no,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: we're building stuff for the Switch 2.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be great.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Please play on Switch 2.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think I need to kind of
• 30:05
  unshackle that in my brain that maybe Switch 2 is a more viable
• 30:08
  place to play
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: because I've been enjoying stuff on Steam Deck for a couple of years.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's for fans of Borderlands or fans of Cyberpunk.
• 30:15
  If you're a fan of Cyberpunk on PlayStation 5 and you're
• 30:17
  thinking of getting a
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Switch 2,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: you might go,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: it's okay,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's not going to be the better version.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: Which was the Witcher version on Switch 1.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: The Switch, yeah.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like,
• 30:25
  I like that game and it gives me the ability to play it outside
• 30:28
  of the home or in
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: different environments.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Actual fact, I had a chat with Matthew Ball, who is a video game analyst.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know him.
• 30:37
  He did a huge presentation about the state of the games
• 30:41
  industry early in the year.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: He thought Switch 2 was an opportunity for developers.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually asked him,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: considering how dominant Nintendo is on its own platforms,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: whether you think Switch 2 is really that much of an opportunity.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, this is what he said.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's important to put this into numbers, right?
• 30:58
  The average console usually has about for every 10 units of
• 31:01
  software that are purchased,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: only one is made by the platform themselves.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: In the case of Nintendo, it's nearly six in every 10 is made by Nintendo.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's even excluding some of their,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: de facto second party relationships,
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: those who only produce for the Nintendo Switch.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so that is to say that for the most part,
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: the second most successful console of all time,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: perhaps soon to be the most successful console of all time,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: they're not even per se buying it for the form factor innovations.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Not that those aren't important, but they're mostly buying it because
• 31:32
  Nintendo has made some of the best titles of all time and in
• 31:35
  incredible volumes and
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: you can only get them on the device and the device is affordable.
• 31:39
  It's not clear how many people are saying I want a portable
• 31:42
  games device or how
• 31:44
  many people are saying that I'm looking to play multi-platform
• 31:47
  or cross-platform
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: titles and the Switch is the device that I'd like to do it on.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're mostly saying I need to,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: I want to,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: and the only games I'd like to play are Nintendo Switch.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, many of us have all consoles.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so that model is the most important or that strategy,
• 32:02
  that success is the most important thing that Nintendo has for
• 32:04
  the Nintendo Switch 2.
• 32:06
  And so we should not think of the fact that the Nintendo Switch
• 32:09
  2 can run most
• 32:11
  third party titles sufficiently as this massive new blue ocean
• 32:15
  opportunity for
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: third party publishers.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time,
• 32:20
  nearly all of the most popular titles globally have not been
• 32:23
  available on the
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Nintendo Switch for the last eight years it's been out.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: That means that many of the highest spending,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: highest engagement,
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: youngest and therefore lifetime brand building consumers
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: have been inaccessible.
• 32:37
  And so that's definitely a meaningful increase opportunity for
• 32:40
  third party publishers.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And yet at the same time, it's going to be available to all of them.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's now going to be a new hotly contested platform as opposed to,
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: potentially a hundred million customers you couldn't reach before,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: but now can,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: which is to say,
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's going to be mixed.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's Matthew Ball, video game analyst.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's probably spot on there.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was going to say the same thing, obviously.
• 33:03
  No one's looking at the switch from a third party perspective
• 33:08
  thinking this is
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: going to deliver us huge growth.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: But there is an audience there that they haven't reached.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: It is an opportunity for them.
• 33:15
  Matthew Ball is right about the dominance of Nintendo games on
• 33:17
  Nintendo Switch,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: but actually things have started to shift a little bit in that area.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I delved into Nintendo's financials on this.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: And yes,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: look,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: if you take the UK,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: for instance,
• 33:29
  nearly 60% of all games sold on Nintendo Switch were published
• 33:32
  by Nintendo,
• 33:33
  and nine of the top 10 best-selling Switch games of all time
• 33:35
  are Nintendo games.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: The only outlier is Minecraft.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's Nielsen IQ GFK entertainment data.
• 33:41
  And Nintendo's own data also shows the number of million
• 33:44
  selling titles published
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: on Switch in a given year.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: So in the 2020 financial year,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: there were 27 million selling Switch titles,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: and Nintendo was responsible for 18 of them.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Even in the current financial year for the year ending December 2024,
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: there have been 19,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: or not the year,
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: so the nine months ending December 2024,
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: there have been 19 million sellers and 12 of them were Nintendo games.
• 34:04
  So Nintendo is dominant on this platform in a way that
• 34:06
  PlayStation isn't on its own.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: However,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: if you look at the more recent years,
• 34:12
  Nintendo has been sharing some data around sales of box games
• 34:15
  plus digital versions
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: of box games.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: So digital-only games are not included in this data.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: And in the 2018 financial year,
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: which is the first full year of the Nintendo Switch,
• 34:26
  Nintendo published titles accounted for over 65% of all games
• 34:29
  sold on that platform.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: So in the first year, Nintendo was dominant.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: Third parties only accounted for 35% of sales.
• 34:35
  Fast forward to 2021 and actually third party games started to
• 34:40
  overtake Nintendo games.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: 2021,
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: 2022,
• 34:44
  2023 and 2024,
• 34:42
  third party games accounted for between 52 to 53% of games sold
• 34:44
  on Nintendo Switch.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Again, that doesn't include digital only releases.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, well, what about digital only releases?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: What about the digital space in particular?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it does include download versions of box games, but digital only.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: I went to Ampere and Ampere conducted some analysis of the eShop.
• 35:06
  And here we can see third party games competing really closely
• 35:09
  with Nintendo's own games.
• 35:11
  My assumption on this is because third party games are
• 35:13
  discounted more heavily on
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo eShop than Nintendo's own games.
• 35:17
  But the firm tracked how many top 10 appearances games have had
• 35:20
  on the US eShop
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: between January 2023 and March 2025,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: or the end of March 2025.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: And the number one game was actually a third-party title.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was Minecraft.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: It had the most top 10 chart appearances.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the top 10,
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: exactly half of the top 10 are third-party games,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: the other four being Stardew Valley,
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Among Us,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Overcooked,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: and Hogwarts Legacy.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: And if you go further down the list, Just Dance is in there.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's had...
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: 24 weeks in the top 10, FIFA 23 spent 14 weeks.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: There's loads of data on this.
• 35:51
  And if you want to go on thegamebusiness.com,
• 35:52
  I sort of share a lot of it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was a bit of graphs on it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: So yes,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: yes,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: look,
• 35:57
  Nintendo having even 40% of this market on their own console
• 36:02
  means that the
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: opportunity is less on
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Switch than it is on PlayStation and Xbox.
• 36:06
  But this idea that third party games can't succeed on Nintendo
• 36:09
  platforms is actually,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: over the last few years,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: started to really change.
• 36:13
  The games like Hogwarts Legacy and the Lego games and Just Dance,
• 36:17
  they've all done really well.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: But even some of the hardcore games are starting to do really well.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: So there is opportunity on Switch.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: You can see why developers are excited.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: I did a lot of talking there.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: I got excited by data, Lucy.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: That is what I do.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: I love it when you get excited about data.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, I mean, that's the thing.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's just,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: as a hardcore gamer,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: my perception is that,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: Switch is the one place where I don't want to play third party.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: I want to play it all bells and whistles on my PC, for example.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: However,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot understate how great the convenience is,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: especially when traveling or,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 36:51
  watching something on the TV and I have my second screen and I
• 36:54
  have my Switch or I
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: have something else going on.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that is wonderful.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think one issue there is, though,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: discoverability in the e-shop.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: There is so much crap, shovelware in there.
• 37:08
  And so you are going to have the same issue that you kind of
• 37:10
  see on Steam where it
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: is the same big names,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: the same roughly top 10 kind of permeating through just because,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: it's a recognizable name.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: The brand is big enough.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you hit upon what I was going to say next, which is this.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, the eShop is notoriously not a brilliant digital store.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm hoping they refresh it for the new console.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't say that in the Direct.
• 37:31
  But I actually spoke to...
• 37:33
  I tried to speak to a load of video game developers for this.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Almost everyone I spoke to don't have dev kits yet.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: One of them said to me that they were desperate for dev kits.
• 37:41
  So they will get on early on the platform and the audience is
• 37:44
  most likely to try
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: different things.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: They want to get there basically before they're too late.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: They are getting dev kits now.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: They were a bit grumpy beforehand.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo being more responsive with them now, they tell me.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think they might already be too late.
• 37:56
  One of the indie publishers I spoke to talked about how
• 37:58
  backwards compatibility and
• 37:59
  stuff means that they're not entirely sure what the real
• 38:02
  opportunity is for them on Switch.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: They do switch too.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: They think they're excited by the machine.
• 38:07
  They just don't necessarily think they're going to see a big
• 38:09
  step up over Switch 1
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: in terms of their sales performance.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because of backwards compatibility,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: because of a stronger release slate from third parties,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: it's going to be quite busy.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: That Direct was busy.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: It was...
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Packed.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: Packed with games and big games, AAA games.
• 38:24
  And there's going to be loads more of those that didn't able to
• 38:28
  fit into that 60-minute video.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: It is a congested market.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: So for those developers that are coming in a bit late,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: who are having to sort of try and join the gold rush now,
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're not going to see...
• 38:40
  What happened with Switch One where games like Snake Pass could
• 38:43
  do huge units.
• 38:44
  One of the only games of Note really released on that platform
• 38:49
  in those early
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: months of that console.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's the opposite situation now.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: We've got lots and lots and lots and lots of games.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: eShop discoverability isn't great.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: Physical retail stores are fading away.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: Discoverability is getting harder and harder.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that was a stat.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to get a stat here.
• 39:05
  If you go on the Nintendo website and you go on the eShop and
• 39:08
  you look at how many
• 39:09
  3DS games were released and how many Wii U games were released
• 39:11
  and how many Switch
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: games were released.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: Look,
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: it's not Steam level 19,000 numbers,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: but it is a huge number,
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: 90,000 in a year,
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: by the way,
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about Steam.
• 39:21
  It is a huge number of games competing for attention in a very,
• 39:24
  very competitive market.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: So...
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's great the third party's on board.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's exciting for Nintendo.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: We've been here before.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo's courted third parties before to mixed results.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, was that Wii U?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Wii U, but even GameCube.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: GameCube,
• 39:39
  remember they sold Rare and they announced their Capcom 5 and
• 39:43
  they did a deal with
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: EA and it didn't really help them.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think Nintendo wanted to get the balance right between...
• 39:51
  having those strong third-party titles that can help keep
• 39:56
  things alive in between
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: their big releases,
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: but also they need to keep living their big games.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: They had a game a month.
• 40:01
  They released a game a month on Switch,
• 40:03
  which that's where the momentum came from.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they wanted to get to a Switch 2.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this list is truly something for everyone.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it is...
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think of all the consoles,
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: all the platforms,
• 40:15
  Nintendo is moving in the right direction to literally take you
• 40:19
  from your very
• 40:19
  first game through to those franchises like Doom that you kind
• 40:23
  of grow up with and
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: just kind of make sure it's all in one place for you.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I'm also aghast.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: I posted this on Blue Sky,
• 40:32
  but it was 40 minutes into the Direct and the killer app for me
• 40:35
  was Yakuza 0
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Director's Cut.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Look at this.
• 40:39
  Getting new content for Yakuza 0 at this point is crazy to me,
• 40:45
  but I am so excited about it.
• 40:46
  And genuinely,
• 40:47
  I was like,
• 40:47
  oh,
• 40:47
  is that the thing that's going to make me get a Switch 2?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think it might be.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: I really struggle with, because I was really excited by that Direct.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: I really excited, partly because they've got GameCube games on it.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I love Donkey Kong.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of my favorite franchises.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I sometimes have this brain,
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: this business brain that tells me,
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: it was missing this.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: The prices are too high.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a bit worried about that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then I have the fan brain, which is like, it's brilliant.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I sometimes get it wrong.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: I went to the Switch One reveal.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I loved it.
• 41:14
  And then I came out and I wrote a piece that suggested that I
• 41:16
  think it was going to fail.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because I was looking at the state of the market.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was looking at the performance of the handheld market.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was looking at the specs of the console, the price of everything.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that only Zelda would launch.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: And Zelda's big, but it's not that big.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if it was the Hammersmith event, I was there too.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember Zelda running terribly.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember coming out of that feeling quite,
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: ooh,
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: this is what they're hedging all their bets on.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you were in that pub,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: actually,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: it was Andy Robinson and CVG at the time,
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: and there was a load of analysts and PRs,
• 41:46
  and we were all writing it off whilst also simultaneously
• 41:49
  pre-ordering it.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it was this... And I kind of feel the same now.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking at that pricing.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking at the lack of a killer Nintendo game outside of Mario Kart.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe Donkey Kong is that.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm looking at...
• 42:08
  The fact this console doesn't really do that much new when
• 42:11
  there's a C button and
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: magnets and...
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: A mouse.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: 4K?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: 120 frames per second on a Nintendo device.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, you know what?
• 42:22
  I did manage to get hold of a developer to talk to me about the Switch,
• 42:26
  too.
• 42:26
  A lot of them were nervous to talk about it,
• 42:29
  but I managed to talk to Virtuous.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Virtuous, you probably haven't heard of them.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: They're known for co-development and porting,
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: and some of the games they've worked on on Switch,
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: some of them worked really well and some of them didn't.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: XCOM,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: The Outer Worlds,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Dying Light,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Nier Automata,
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: Dark Souls Remastered,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: The Bioshock Collection,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: L.A.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Noire.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's actually quite a long list.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: I spoke to Virtuos' Ryo Nakagawa,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: I hope I got that right,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: who gave me his take on the Switch,
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: his experiences with the Switch 2,
• 42:56
  and whether or not he thinks actually it might be easier or
• 43:00
  harder to port games of
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Switch 2 than it was to Switch 1.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what he said.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I believe there is two aspects.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: One strong point is the Switch 2 is stronger platform than Switch 1.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: We can apply less optimization for the performance and then loading time.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: We usually spend a huge time of the optimization for...
• 43:26
  add contents,
• 43:28
  reducing triangles or polygons,
• 43:32
  or from the engineering,
• 43:33
  the coding.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: But this workload could be less for Switch 2.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: But same time,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: there is a risk or challenges,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would say,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: because the Switch 2,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: they're going to enhance the multiplayer online mode.
• 43:52
  I think we should apply more technical challenges and then also
• 43:58
  QA testing.
• 44:01
  We should have more heavy QA testing to make sure the
• 44:05
  functionality works properly.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And also, so the middleware Switch 2 doesn't support yet, I believe.
• 44:15
  So we need to resolve some of the area that's supposed to have
• 44:22
  the middleware covers,
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: but we need to resolve it by ourselves.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this could be extra workload, I would anticipate.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: and then maybe third point is good,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:36
  I think architecture for the between Switch 1 and 2 could be a
• 44:40
  bit similar,
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: similarity that they should have it.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the engineers,
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: we have a lot of,
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: adaptation experience for the Switch 1 in the past.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we can utilize those experience and the skill or knowledges
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: for the porting this time, I believe.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: But well,
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Switch 2 is not mature yet platform,
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: so we never know how much potential challenges we will have.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: there's Rio there from Abertus trying to...
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was very late for him when I did that interview.
• 45:23
  But he was basically saying that some of the extra
• 45:26
  functionality that's hit the
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: Switch 2 that people want to introduce into the games means that,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: yes,
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: it might be easier to release games on it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: You might have to do so much optimisation,
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: but there are other things that come with the new platform.
• 45:38
  And also,
• 45:38
  you know,
• 45:38
  if you can do more,
• 45:39
  people will want to do more,
• 45:40
  right?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: They want to push the hardware.
• 45:42
  So it's still challenging and it's still going to have its
• 45:48
  challenges in terms of
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: bringing those games across.
• 45:50
  But I suspect all of those sort of companies are going to be in
• 45:53
  demand quite a lot
• 45:54
  over the next few months as people rush to get their games on
• 45:57
  the platform.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:59
  I think even just,
• 46:00
  you know,
• 46:00
  it's like the badge of honor having it in your trailer.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, Switch 2, there you go.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Never forget, Gollum was the first ever PS5-focused game.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, how did that do?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: as long as you weren't running his hair physics,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: it would run kind of okay,
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: but his hair physics kept breaking it.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm excited for Switch 2.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's a big moment in the games.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's been eight years since we've had a new Nintendo console.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: It isn't a huge revolution on the console that happened before.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: You could argue that Nintendo doesn't need to.
• 46:33
  It still largely has this weird hybrid market to itself that
• 46:37
  it's created.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_03: But it's tough out there.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: Costs are going up.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of uncertainty in the economy around tariffs,
• 46:45
  which is obviously a big conversation at the moment and the
• 46:47
  impact that's having.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it should do pretty well.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not expecting a collapse like the Wii U,
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: not necessarily expecting Switch 1 numbers,
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: but I don't think Nintendo need to deliver that.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: The key will be in the games.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: As always, can they ignite people?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: Can they excite people?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that's to be seen.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree.
• 47:10
  I was a little bit more ambivalent about the Switch 2 until
• 47:14
  this morning's Direct,
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: just because,
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: it is the games.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't care less about what the box looks like under my TV,
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: except for the PS5,
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: which I still think is...
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Bizarre looking.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, I'm not connected to a piece of hardware.
• 47:28
  I'm connected to the games and the experiences that I am going
• 47:30
  to experience through it.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're making a lot of,
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 47:34
  I also kind of had my expectations in check just through rumors
• 47:37
  and leaks where
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: it's just,
• 47:38
  this is more like an upgraded Switch rather than this huge leap
• 47:42
  in hardware,
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: this huge leap in a generation.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think that has kind of helped.
• 47:46
  But I wonder how that is going to trickle through to people who
• 47:49
  are not living and
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: breathing every single piece of news like we are.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think people hold Nintendo to different standards,
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: both lower and higher,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: depending on the situation.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: So Nintendo Switch 2,
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was talking to someone about this before and they said,
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: isn't it just a Nintendo Switch 1 Pro?
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I asked, why would they say that?
• 48:07
  And they said,
• 48:07
  well,
• 48:07
  isn't it just faster graphics,
• 48:09
  better graphics,
• 48:10
  more power?
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I went, isn't that what every game's console is?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: With Nintendo, you expect something more.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: What's the gimmick?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the gimmick this time is the mouse.
• 48:19
  I think the leap between Switch 1 and Switch 2 is greater than
• 48:22
  the leap between PS4 and PS5.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: And yet no one's questioning PS5 as being next year.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe they are.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'm just not in that circles.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's coming out in June 5th.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to cost $450 in the US.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: There's a Mario Kart bundle as well.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's £396, £407.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's not long now until we all get hands on with it.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's being demoed around the world as we speak.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's all we have time for for today's The Game Business Show.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Lucy, for joining us.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was a pleasure to have you on.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: We will be back next week with our feature show.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: We have Matthew Ball, video game analyst.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: You saw a clip from that interview.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: We have a huge interview with him on the games market,
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: where it's heading,
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: what the opportunities are,
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: where the growth opportunities are.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: We also will be back as well next week for our news show.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Until then, thank you for listening and we'll see you next time.