Latest / Like a Virgin / From Twink to Twunk

Transcript

From Twink to Twunk · Like a Virgin

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Would you fucking eagle? I mean, eagles are hot, I think,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and they're endangered and like it could be your only chance.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I spent a lot
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: of my adolescents fapping it to Greek mythology, and I
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: think I think you did too. No chance, no way, Um,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I won't say it, no, no, deny. Oh. We are
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the muss goddesses of the arts and proclaims of heroes,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: heroes like Hercules. I like, Well, we have been visited
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: by the muses and they have inspired us to talk
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: about Greek mythology, which is I think like one of
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the earliest things we talked about doing on this podcast
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: because it's something that we both are obsessed with, obsessed
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: with and also just like is not in the culture
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: as much as it should be, you know, like it
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: is and it always has been. And I do think
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk today a little bit about how um,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Greek mythology is something that you know, artists are always
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: coming back to, always like breathing new life into because
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: of the universal nature of these stories. But we're really
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: going to talk about it all, from Hercules to you know,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Madeline Miller and everything in between because this is like
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and in today's case, ancient pop culture. Today's takes. I'm
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Rostamu and I'm Fran Toronto. Something I'm always scared of
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: is getting murdered in an Airbnb. Um. I'm not always
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: scared of getting murdered, because sometimes I'm like whatever, I'm
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: ready for the solid to be over. But airbnb is,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I think are particularly chilling. And that's why I liked
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the premise of Barbarian, which friend and I just saw yesterday,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: because it does run with that idea of when you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: go stay at someone's house, you never really know whose
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: house you're staying in. And also the people who own
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the kind of homes that are turned into Airbnbs don't
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: even really necessarily know what homes they're living in. Yeah,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: if you haven't watched the trailer to Barbarian, you'll you'll
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: get the premise immediately. But it's just so in real life,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: like it is a real thing that could happen to
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: you when you book an Airbnb. And and now I'm
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: terrified of airbnbs, And honestly, I just hope that this
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: continues to irreparably damage Airbnb as a corporation. Like, I
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: think that we should make more horror films and TV
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: shows that make us scared of booking Airbnb. Okay, so
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: for the Virgin spoiler alert, we're gonna talk a little
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: bit about Barbarian here. So Barbarian is about a woman
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: who rents an Airbnb. It turns out someone is staying there.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: It's built ours guard a k. A. Pennywise, who is
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: really hot also terrifying. Yeah, I think he's hotter as
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Pennywise to be honest um, And he's like, oh no,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: it's fine, Like let's both stay here, and then some
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: weird ship happens in the house. She goes to investigate,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: finds this secret basement that leads to another secret basement,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: another secret basement. Literally is like it's a comically scary hallway.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It's like, actually, like something that could be so simple
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: and so cliche in a canon of horror films, but
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: like it's so well done and really scary. Yes, And
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: the more I have sat with it, the more I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: have really liked it and thought it was a really
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: good movie and really well done. The parts in the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: basement we're kind of reminding me of have you ever
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: seen The Descent? I haven't, one of my favorite horror movies.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: It's so scary, and the scariest part of it to
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: me is the claustrophobia of them being underground, not even
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: really the monsters. I thought the lead actress was really good.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: She was very funny, and this was like one of
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: her I mean, she's done a handful of horror and
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: action of for but like, I think this was like
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: such a moment for her. Yeah. And I liked that
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: they introduced the Justin Long character, who was like a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: horrible person and is by the end of the movie
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: more monstrous than the actual monster who is the monster
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: of the film. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and without giving too
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: much away, like something else that I love about that.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, aside from the fact that like they make
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: this Airbnb like multi property manager seemed like a complete asshole,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: which like we need more representation for like asshole airbnb
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: property managers. They they haven't had their they haven't had
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: their do um. But the if you watch the trailer
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: for the film, it sets you up to think that
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the movie is going to be one thing, and then
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the movie drastically changes twice and kind of almost switches
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: protagonists for a moment, and um, I just think that
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: that is something that I will always want to watch,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: what no matter the genre, like someone who is willing
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to break the form of a film and like Foura
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: into something just because they really wanted to surprise the audience.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Because on its face, it's a pretty simple premise and
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: it's really just the way that it's executed that I
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: think elevates it to being a very good horror movie. Yeah,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and like honestly slightly less simple. Um, we're on a roll,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: like in terms of scary movies this week, it's speaky season.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: So Rose had been telling me to watch X, a
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: movie that came out how many months ago? It came
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: out earlier this year. It came out in the spring.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: They shot it in New Zealand and had rented this
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: farm for a certain amount of time, and I guess
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it took them not as long to shoot it as
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I thought they did. So t West or Tie West,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: however you pronounced his name and Mia Goth were like, wait,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: let's also make a prequel film while we have the space,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: and he and Mia Goth wrote it together, which is
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: did they write it on Saturday. Did they just kind
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: of figure out I think they. I think I think
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: they wrote it during their their quarantine before filming, and
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: it has now been announced there's going to be a
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: third film. Max Sine um I. Maxine is the character
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: that Mia Goth plays a X, the corn star character
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: who survives. She's the final girly. I think it's a
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: really good filmmaker muse situation where they they clearly work
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: very well together, because I will say I really loved
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: X when I watched it a couple of weeks ago,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: and then I loved Pearl even more. Yeah, okay, Mia
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Goth as a muse. I think it's the perfect way
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: of explaining why both of these movies shine so hard.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Um okay. So X is basically about a film crew
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: that is shooting a porno. They want to rent a farm.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: The farm happens to be inhabited by two of the oldest,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: creepiest people you've ever seen in your entire life. They're
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: so old that they look like corpses, and the movie,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: without revealing these like the older woman Pearl to you
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: too far in advance, is able to build a dramatic
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: tension that is like so weird and so specific and
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: like fully reliant on like how eerie she looks and um,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: you know, but also how eerie she acts, because I
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: don't think old people are you know, creepy in and
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: of themselves, but Pearl throughout the movie wants the youth
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: that these people possess. Like first, she tries to fuck
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: like literally everyone there, and they're all like, you're disgusting,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and so then she decides to kill them all except
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: for Miagoth's character Maxine, who the creepiest scene in the
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: movie is when she gets into bed with her Oh
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: my god, it scared me. But also the movie I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: thought was also really funny. Brittney Snow, Britney Snow, you
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: will always be famous Britney Snow tour. In this film,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: she was a revelation. Her cover of Landslide was amazing.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Um kid Cutty was great. Also, that girl Jenna Ortega,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: who's in literally everything, was in this I thought her
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: death scene was pretty satisfying. And the gag of the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: movie you don't know in advance um is that the
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: protagonist of the movie, Mia Goth, also plays the old
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: woman in prosthetics at the same time, so she is
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: simultaneously the hero and the villain of the story, which
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I think is so brilliant and so Pearl. The movie
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: is a prequel of the older woman's character Pearl in
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: origin story and and finding out how she got to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: this point of being this woman who clearly has a
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: life full of wasted dreams. And I thought, this is
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the kind of movie that we don't see anymore. You know,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a deeply psychological thriller, character study. It's
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: not even really a horror movie. It's not really that horrific.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: But I thought it was fascinating. I loved the way
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: that they mimicked the technicolor movies of the wartime era.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Mia Goth was transcendent um. The scene with the scarecrow, Yeah,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: that was that was That was crazy. A scene where
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: she kills the guy and yells at him and she's like,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: she's like really, well done, so good and then her
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: he's so hot. Um. And then of course Mia goths
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: six minute monologue at the end, how did you know?
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Six minutes? Is it? Like people are talking about it
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: on Twitter. Incredible And you know, we'll have to wait
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: and see what Maxine is like. But this might be
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: the kind of thing where the whole is better than
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: the some of its parts, and the some of its
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: parts are still really good. So I'm very excited to
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: see how it all shakes out. We have a new
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: episode of House of Dragon, and which holes were very
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: important because it opened with older rain Era giving birth
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and then having to walk longer than I've ever walked
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: in my life up all those stairs, um, having just
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: given birth. This episode was really good. I really liked
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the introduction of the new actors. What I am finding
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: with House to the Dragon, though, is that it has
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: a serious pacing problem. It is moving through this stuff
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: too fast. I keep seeing stuff on Twitter and on
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: TikTok of scenes that were cut. I think we could
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: have gotten so much more character development. I didn't like
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: that we never got to see any interaction between Rania
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and Harwin Strong, who secretly her lover and the father
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of her bastard children. Um. But this show, it continues
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: to be great and like it is Sunday night appointment television,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and everyone's acting is incredible. I really liked the introduction
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: of Emma to r C who plays older Ranira, and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: their non binary which I love to see, and also
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: The actress who plays the younger Allison is queer, and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: even said in an interview that she played Allison as
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: being in love with Rania. So I wow, that's so.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, like I as sometimes I hate like batty things.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: But when it's like the actor saying that, not like
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: the creator like just trying for like pr or whatever, like,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I love that. I uh, I will agree and also
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: disagree about like the page Well, okay, I actually fully
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: agree with you on the pacing thing. Um. I think
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: watching this episode in particular, where we jump forward in time,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, what's your rush, Like, we're gonna
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: get seven more seasons? I don't think we That's the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: thing is. I think because they know of what happened
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: with Game of Thrones, I think this will be a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: much more contained show, and I would imagine three. And
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I think what they're rushing to get to is the
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: actual Dance of the Dragons, which is the Targarrian Civil War.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And so most of the season so far has been
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: spent setting up what's going to happen, because all of
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the action of the Dance of the Dragons, like the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: stuff that we're seeing happen now in the source material
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: is like one line, it's like this person died, this happened,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and most of the bulk of this is what happens
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: in the actual war. And I understand why they're rushing
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: because they know how soured people were on the way
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Game of Thrones ended. But that being said, what Game
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of Thrones always did so well with character development, and
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: they have done a really good job developing these characters.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: It's just that they're doing it so fast, and I
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: wish there was a little more room to breathe. Yeah,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: the reason I almost like disagree with you was because
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like the pacing is unsuccessful, you know
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I don't watching it. I'm like,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: even though it feels quote unquote rushed, like I don't
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: watch it and feel like, oh, I don't really know
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: who what this character wants are, Like, Like I don't
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: really I really wish I had seen you know what
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I mean? Like it's it earns the pace that it gives,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: But I just think that it would be so much
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: fun to watch a lot of the things that they skipped.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: I know, it's not that I don't like what I have,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: It's that I want more of a good thing. And
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: also some things it's not that they feel unearned, but
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: like the way this episode ends with Lena Valerian instructing
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: her dragon to kill her because she knows she's going
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: to die from childbirth. Like it's an amazing scene. How
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: much more amazing would it have been if we had
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: spent that much more time with that character and really
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: understood what she and her family were losing. That being said,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I'm addicted. I you know, we will be watching next
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Sunday as well. I really did not think I was
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: going to get addicted to, Like I thought that Rings
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of Power was going to be my appointment TV. And
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: lo and behold, this is actually satiating the thing that
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I want out of that show, which we're not. We're
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: not going to talk about that brings rings era Well,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: we'll see. I mean, the thing about Rings of Power
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: is like they could make seven episodes and I will
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: watch them all. You know what I mean. But but
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just not that good. It's not that good.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Speaking of things that not that good. Um, we saw
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: don't worry Darling, and that was that was that was
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: a red herring transition because the gag of gags is
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I actually really liked it. Well, I mean there's nuance
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: to that, there's nance to that. It's but I also
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: kind of like did quote unquote, but I don't think
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that's how I felt when I left the theater. I
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: think I felt the way I felt when I left
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the theater was the same as the guy that was
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: in our theater. When the credits role the movie ends,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: there is two seconds of silence and you see a
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: guy walking already exiting the theater before the like right
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: as the credits roll, and he goes, what a piece
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of shit? It was like a lot of very funny.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: The whole audience left, but like that's but this is
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that is very exemplar or of
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the whole thing around this movie. That guy did that
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: for the lull. That guy did that to be a troll,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: And that is how everyone is interacting with this movie,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: which actually, if there wasn't all of this drama build
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: up to it would have been perfectly fine. It's a
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: perfectly fine film. It's also what I will say is
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I totally get what Harry Style said. It is a
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: movie that feels like a movie. It's that kind of
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: like go to the theater and watch a movie movie
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: he spelled. It is like that. Okay. I think that
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the things that worked. Olivia Wilde's directing was very good.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful movie. The music is great. Some of
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the things that aren't good are the right script, the
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: script which Olivia Wilde didn't write. I saw some interesting
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: TikTok's which were about how this movie there. This was
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: a story that Olivia Wilde brought and her writing partner rewrote.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And in the original it's much less feminist, and um,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the originals less feminist. Yes, the original does what I
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: wish this movie had done, which is that you know
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: much earlier in the story about the reveal which spoiler
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: alert if you haven't seen, don't worry darling. Well, I mean,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: can we back up actually, because like I um feel
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: like despite the months of like controversy we've had around
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: this film, no one actually knows what it's about. And
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: like I think that if you don't know what it's about,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: it's basically like a kind of intention community called the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Victory Project is living in a nineteen fifties esque kind
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of like community where the husbands go off to work.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: You don't really know what they're doing all day, and
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: the wife stay at home, and they've all agreed to
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: be a part of this constructed cultish community that is
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: kind of in the middle of the desert. Question Mark
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and Florence, It's it's giving. Joshua Tree actually, like basically,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Florence Pew carries the dramatic tension of this film by
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: kind of starting to notice an investi the things that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: are like off or weird about this community. And that's
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: basically which which is the inciting incident of this is
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: that one of her friends in the community, played by
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Kiki Lane, has suffered what seems to be some kind
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: of mental break And UM, I bring this up because
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: the latest round of drama in all this is that
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Kiki Lane recently posted on Instagram that she was cut
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: from most of the movie. Um, which is kind of
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: fucked considering that she's one of the names on the
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: poster and yet she hasn't been involved in any of
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: the press, but she was used to sell this movie,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: and I do have to wonder if that's because she's
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the only notable black lead and so even though her
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: part was cut down to almost nothing and very much
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: kind of fills the stereotype of being the like magical
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: black person who sets the white protagonist on their journey
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: of self discovery. She was cut from this movie but
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: was still used to sell it, and I'm glad she
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: posted about it because when she did, I was like,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: you can tell that she was cut, Like there is god.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to get into the weeds to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: be honest, Like, as you said, this is the inciting incident.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And there's a moment where Florence is like, my friend
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: died spoiler alert, my friend, Like this happened to my friend.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: It's like, actually, like there's nothing in the movie that
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: would suggest that you were friends, like really, like like
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: she called, you were like a lot of things rather
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: than being shown Yes, it's very stupid. Um, I felt
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: like the ending is such a fart that I couldn't
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: in totality enjoy what the movie was giving us. Well,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: they felt like it was so lazy and cliche and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: not earned. Well, this is going back to what I
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: said before, which is that I really believe that the
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: twist at the end of this movie, and spoiler alert
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: again for anyone who hasn't seen it, what's revealed is
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: that the victory Project is a simulation that has been
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: created by like Jordan's Peterson esque in cells to trap
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: women in and so their their literal partners. Well not always,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: because they do. Say when Harry Styles is out in
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: the real world and is like getting into it, they're like,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: pick a woman who you have some kind of existing
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: relationship with, so it could be you know, your girlfriend,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: your wife, it could be just like a friend of yours,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and they're they're kidnapping these women and putting them in
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: a simulation. The men have to care for these women
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and it's funny. So Fran sent me a voice memo
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: last night asking me about some of this stuff, like
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: how the women piss and ship in the simulations if
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you like the images, Like the simulation is literally like
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Harry Styles and Florence Pe laying in a bed with
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: their like eyes applied open and like some sort of
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: like you know, VR being like projected into their eyes,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: and it's like if they're laying there like their whole
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: lives like, but but they're not, because that's the whole
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: point is that she is. But he when he goes
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: to work every day, that that's him live leaving the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: simulation and they asked him, will you be able to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: get a job to support this? Will you be able
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: to take care of your wife? So I'm assuming he's
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: going out into the real world every day to work
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: some like stupid job, and then he comes home to
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: his slave wife laying in bed and he probably like
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: cleans her bedpan or her diaper, my god, and like
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: what refills her food catheter? Like that's never explained. That's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: never explained. And this all goes back to my point
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I've been trying to make, which is that I think
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the reveal of the simulation would happen much earlier in
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the movie. And in the original script it does and
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you know, almost the whole film. So in the original script,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the first time that Alice breaks through the portal, she
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: finds out and then she goes back and kind of
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: keeps figuring out more and more and like goes out
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: again and comes back, and and I think that would
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: have been much more effective, because look, this is very
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: clearly uh kind of I'm not gonna say rip off,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: but heavily inspired by The Stepford Wives. And the thing
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: about the Stepford Wives is that you know what's happening,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you know what's happening in The Stepford Wives very early on.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: You know that there's something about robots, that the men
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: are killing their wives, replacing them with robots, And the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: tension doesn't come from the reveal. The tension comes from
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: this woman knowing what's happening and still making these choices
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and trying to save herself, trying to save her friends,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: trying to save her children. So I think that if
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the reveal had happened much earlier in the film, there
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: would have been so much tension inherent in Florence trying
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: to figure out not only how to save herself, but
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: how to save the other women, trying to figure out
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: why this happened to her, And I think it just
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: would have been a much more interesting thing if the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: whole movie didn't hinge on the Oh my god, it
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: was a simulation, because I think I think that's the
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: least interesting part of the movie. It's if your movie
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: ends in a and it was all the simulation, like
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: go back to film school. I'm sorry, Like that is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: just not how movies can end. It's how movies can begin.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Because yeah, because I think something that's much more interesting
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: would have been. I thought Olivia Wilde was actually really
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: good in the movie, and one of her best scenes
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: was towards the end you find out that she's known
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: about the simulation the whole time. She's the only one
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: who's known, and she's decided to stay because her children
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: have died in the real world and now she has
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: them in the simulation. And I think so much more
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: could have been drawn out of that if you knew earlier,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and you could have spent more time with her and
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the implications of that, and like are there other women
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: that know, or like what is the thing with the children?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Like there should have been clues about her children dying,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Like she should have mentioned something earlier in the movie
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: about like them being fragile or like something like that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: It's just there. There were a lot of missed opportunities.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: But all that being said, it's still a pretty good movie,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and all of the drama surrounding it is just kind
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: of stupid. I think, well, I'll say perfectly fine. First
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: of all, the fact that it's like not the nineties
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: and is in the present day. I guess in like
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: the first three minutes of the movie, like it's literally
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the twist of like the village, And I was like
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: this is like I thought maybe it would be to cliche. Um,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the plane crashing that happens never explained, Like what was that?
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: The Jemma Chan who's like loveling this movie but also
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: kind of feels kind of cut from the movie, has
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: a moment where she stabs Chris fine as you have
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: no idea? Why no idea? Why is it because she
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: also wants to escape? Is it because she was in
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: charge the whole time? Like that would have been more
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: interesting twist? And it's just this movie thinks that you
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: care about the wrong things. Yeah, exactly. Then what the
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: movie wants you to care about is not what the
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: audiences I think care about. Um. And also Harry Styles
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: was like fine as an actor. I actually would say
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the Harry Styles was wonderful and I really enjoyed him,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and like I felt like he was one of the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I thought, obviously Shyla buff would have been better. He
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: would he would have been better because he would have
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: sold the like doting husband at the beginning, But then
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: he would have been incredible as the in cell. He
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: would have been so believable as this loser, misogynist who
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: would kidnap and rape his wife. That's also something that
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: ever addressed. That's also something that's never addressed. And you know,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde for the past year has been talking about
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: how feminist and empowering the sex scenes in this movie are.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And now that we know what this movie is really about, Um,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde, those are rape scenes. So it doesn't really
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: matter that the woman is the only one coming because
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: she's being raped. So maybe stop like touting that as
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: it being like a feminist reclaiming of sex scenes in cinema.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And also, I mean, the one thing that Harry did
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: not carry was when Harry styles as an insult you
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and I were gig it was very funny. It was
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: fucking funny. Um. And I bet that's what his Harry
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: looks like in real life, haven't I heard the two us?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Oh there's a whole there's a conspiracy theory that he's bald.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I will not believe it. But anyways, Um, I actually
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: think Harry was really good and I don't really feel
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: like that the dig on his acting was that earned
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: because the character does have a British accent. The character
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: is British. Yeah, the whole British thing was some kind
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: of twitter red Harry yeah, although I guess he was
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: American in the real world and chose to be British
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: in the simulation. Oh is that because they asked him
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: what nationality he wanted to be and he wrote British.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's interesting. Um yeah. I also wondered, like
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: if something was changed during the production because Harry's American
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: accent is like so bad, But like I don't know, um,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't. I felt it was perfectly fine.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Not a movie to revisit. No, but Kate ber Land,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: you will always be famous. She's perfect Virgins. I know
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: that podcasting is an auditory medium that you can't see
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: us right now, but if you could see us, you
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: would see that. Today, for our discussion on Greek mythology,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Frand and I both thought we were going to get
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: going to goop each other by each bringing our copy
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: of de Laire's Book of Greek Myths, which is like
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the book that we all you know, it is a
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: sacred texts foundational text and truly like is the genesis
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of this episode, and it's just so funny that we
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: both were like, I have a surprise for you, bok
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: that like a bunch of nerds like sucking nerds coming
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: to school, like and as soon as we brought the
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: book up. Also are amazing engineer Clay who's here shout
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: out to Clay Um also recognized it. So truly, this
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: book is omnipotent universal the culture. I think like if
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you were a kid, and if you were like a
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: millennial kid, um, you know, this was something that was
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: part of your you know, culture, it really was, and
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I think that, like, I mean, this was taught in
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: my school actually, like we had a lesson on it
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: in fifth grade, and I was like, I already read
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: that book, Like I remember being like so ericant about it,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: but I definitely got this after seeing Disney's Hercules. And
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Disney's Hercules is for sure the thing that sparked my interest,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: and I guess probably our generation's interest with Greek mythology,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: which is what we're talking about today. I mean, sure,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: it's slightly predated by the Hercules TV show and it's
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: spin off, Zena Warrior Princess, which also were very mythology,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: but I think we were we were a little too
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: young for those, Like I didn't really watch I kind
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: of watched Zena and I had a Zena action figure.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: At some point I had a Hercules video game for
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: my Sega Genesis, so that was an ancient Hercules. The
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Disney movie, No, it was like it was the TV
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: show video the video game for Sega Sega starring Kevin Sorbo.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Horny Horny show. It was very horny. I mean, as
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: was Zena. But Zena was lesbian horny. Yes, yeah, honestly,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I mean lesbian cannon. I would say, like the most
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: sapphic like kind of homoerotic thing that existed in that
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: dan age, like Zena was, I think in lesbian culture
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: at the time, like a mascot, like was emblazoned on
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: you know, lesbian T shirts and paraphernalia and stuff like
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: that that people would subculturally share in like wink wink. Also,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Xena fan fiction was huge really at the time. Yes,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I have heard this from fan fiction scholars. But um,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: for the purposes of this episode, I do think starting
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: with Disney Hercules as the root of this lifelong obsession
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: an interest is very important. Um, you know, Hercules was
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but like kind
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: of a flop in terms of Disney movies, because you know,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: this is sort of the tail end of the Disney Renaissance,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: which like when the classics ended. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Because
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: so the Disney Renaissance of the nineties like really began
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: with The Little Mermaid, which came out in eight nine. Um,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I was actually, um listening to
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: a podcast about this the other a. You know, Disney
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: movies really only existed to basically like create I p
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: to sell merch off of um, And it wasn't something
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: where Disney thought that they were like profitable in and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: of themselves. And it was only with Beauty and the
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Beasts huge critical and commercial success that Disney movies became
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: something that were financially successful in and of themselves, and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: like Disney became an entity that wasn't just selling merch
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and theme parks, but like movies. So I guess that's
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: how you get something like Hercules, which is obviously one
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of the Disney movies that's like supposed to be for
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: boys for boys boys derivatory. Um, it's very you know
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: because like princess movies are like about princesses. Clearly, Um,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: when you look at Hercules, it's very obviously to me
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: supposed to be a sports movie like Hercules is supposed
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to be you know, a Nikes and analog for like
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's or like any of the sports heroes at
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the time, and that's very much seen in the movie
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and things like zero to Hero, which that song is
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: literally all about, like the cultures celebrity around sports figures,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: which I think is like such a smart modernization of
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: like the movie because it has that kind of Aladdin
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: esque like wink wink, here's all this contemporary humor you
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: can enjoy. Like, I just think that's so smart to
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: think about Hercules as like the Lebron of his time,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: you know, or like that that he had that superstardom
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: that turned into merch, which is really funny that you
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: are mentioning that. You know, they were like Disney was
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: trying to crank out movies to sell merch because infamously
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson was supposed to be Hades in Hercules, and
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: they ended up not giving him the role because his
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: management demanded fifty of Hades merch sales, and instead of
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: came James Woods, who is a pervert and a horrible person,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: one of the worst people on the internet truly, um
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: but he and he did sound good. I like, obviously
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I loved all of the Disney movies that came before this.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I love the Disney Princess movies, but Hercules really captured
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: my imagination in a way that that the others hadn't.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And I think with Hercules, the thing was like, yes,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: with the movies that are based off of fairy tales,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: like you can go back and read the originals, um,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: but there's sort of like a limited amount of source
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: material to turn to. And with Greek mythology, with Hercules,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: you find out that there's literally like a whole culture
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: to explore and all of these stories, bottomless pit of
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: myths and sub myths and sub sub myths. Yes, and
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: so this book, like Hercules, was the entry point for sure.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: And then Dolores Book of Greek Myths was you know,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: like the rabbit hole to go down. Oh yeah, And
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: like you and I avid readers, like I remember reading
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: this book like just blowing through it. You know, it's
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: a picture book, but it still has a lot of text.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: But I remember blowing through it and being like, there
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: has to be more books on Greek mythology, and there were,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and there were, I mean, this is the one that
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: makes it the most accessible for children, because you know,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Greek mythology is famously very fucked up. Dark, dark, dark,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: which I think kind of leads us to one of
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: the things I wanted to talk about as like an
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: entry point in this discussion, which is how Greek mythology
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: is different from other kinds of mythology, and how Greek
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: gods are different from other pantheons and why culturally we
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: keep coming back to them. And you know, obviously there's
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of scholarship on this, and I think like
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the big thing is that the Greek gods act like humans,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Like they have very human passions and vulnerabilities. They're like
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: very petty and jealous, and they have all of these
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: like interpersonal dramas, and their constly flying down from Olympus
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: like rape and abduct somebody adult. There's so much like adultery,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: so much mess, so much like turning mortals into animals
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: for pretty much no reason for from ye to cover
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: up rape. Yeah, I mean, we we'll we'll get into that, um.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: But the darkness that you're getting out of Greek mythology
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: and why I think it's different from other mythologies, has
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: a lot to do with the fact that it predates
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: the colonization of the world, right, it predates the popularization
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: of Christianity, And so these myths existed at a time
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: where there was no lexicon around same sex sex, right,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: there was no there was no like rape was fine, unfortunately,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: like having sex with boys was like totally chill, but
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: like on top like in addition, as long as you
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: were chill about it. Also, it must be said that
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: there's no sort of like unlike the Bible, there's no
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: like foundational text Greek myths, and a lot of these
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: are folk tales that come from a lot of different
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: cultures that were woven into the Greek like social cultural
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: identity and like formalized into these tales. But like there's
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: no definitive telling of all of them. And like sure,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of like the you know, like great play
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: rights and like thinkers wrote down their version of them.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: People says Metamorphoses not a foundational text but one of
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: the most known compilation. But they're still pretty loosey goosey,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and the details really do differ from telling to telling,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: which I think is like why there's so much fun
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and why Greek mythology has really lent itself, so, you know,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: naturally to all of these contemporary adaptations, right, And I
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: kind of think what is really beautiful and the thing
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: that I was so attracted to about Greek mythology then
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and now is you know, obviously we look back at
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Greek times and there are things you're like, oh, that's
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: not how we act today when it comes to like
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: pedophilia or like enslaved people are like how women are treated.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: But like, in addition to the bad stuff, there was
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: also just a really rich, beautiful hiddenism that like really
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: UM injects itself into like all of these myths that
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: make them so messy and such a joy to read
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: because they're not beholden to the um colonist ideas of purity,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: purity morality. Yeah, like all the certain things, there's a
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: lot of sucking, and there's a lot of it all
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: is well sucking, fucking h drugs, drinking like orgies, like
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: war like reality, yes, like killing, going create, like losing
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: your mind to the point that you literally tear people
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: to shreds, crazy parties, killing people like it's nothing like
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: wars um anger like. And I think that that unfettered
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: emotionality makes great stories, right, even if it's like crazy
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: to read, You're like this is these are good stories
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: and um, you know in comparison to other mythologies or
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: when we think about like a Hans Christian Anderson, right,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: like those like the Little Mermaid o G. Little Mermaid
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: or the O G. Cinderella, like those are really dark
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: and also very Christian. Like the Little Mermaid. The whole
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: thing with the original Little Mermaid is that the story
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: ends with her turning into c foam because she doesn't
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: have an immortal soul. And then she does get like
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: lifted up into heaven and well she gets lifted up
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: to like purgatory for two hundred years and then she
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: finally gets to have an immortal soul and go to heaven.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: I hadn't heard that version, but yeah, it's all about
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the afterlife and Christianity, but it still has that the
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: darkness of the you know, she was supposed to stab
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: the prince and like doesn't she like there's something about
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: cutting off her feet or something, and in Cinderella the
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: sisters have to cut off their toes or whatever, like uh,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: you know, but like the thing about Greek mythology is
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: that like it has the nastiness without the kind of
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: like judgment of it, yes, the judgment. Yeah, and because
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: and like also just like queerness and like gender fuckory,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: like so many gods, not in the Delarues version, but
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: like in other versions of Greek myths, Like there's so
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: much queerness and so much kind of like gender fuckory
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: among God's heroes stories and all that jazz and Disney
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: hercules to go back to, you know, the jumping off
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: point is not explicitly queer, but like it's the queerest
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: fucking story. I mean it should literally be called from
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Twink to Twine. A twink who doesn't know his biological parents,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: feels that there's something out there more for him, a
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: community that he belongs to because he doesn't belong in
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: this and then has like a sassy best friend who
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: like doesn't really want to date him because she thinks
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: there's like a little something off about him. He has
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: a hairy mentor who like kind of wants to fuck
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: another like older man who wants to suck him God,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: And but I remb member as a kid, I definitely
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: caught onto that yearning, um that you know, there's something
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: something wrong with me, Like I need to find something
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: greater than myself and the possibility. You know. The I
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Want song to Go the Distance is, which is a
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: beautiful song, way too short, way too short, and the
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: interlude not the best song in the in the movie
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: though that that is won't salam in Love, wont sam
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: in Love of course, one of the greatest songs ever written.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: And also I will say with Go the Distance, the
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: interlude makes it really difficult to do for karaoke. Um
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: as well, It's kind of like, um uh, the song
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: from Mowanna To, which is split up into like three
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: different versions that all happen at different parts of the movie. Right.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I need I need the kind of karaoke cut of
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Go the Distance because it's exactly in my vocal range
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: and I can really nail it really like they should
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: there should be a sort of part of your world
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: version of it all together. Yeah, exactly. Um, but I
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: mean Hercules is hot, Like let's say that, like I'm
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: very horny for Hercules, as Meg is really hot to
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: another sort of bisexual jumping off point. And Meg's like
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: kind of self assuredness which we had never really seen
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: in the Disney Cinematic universe before. In a female lead,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: and because she very distinctly says that she's not a princess. Yes, yeah,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: we hadn't seen a Disney, a female Disney character at
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: that point who wasn't a princess. And like now in
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: today in Disney, we have this whole sort of meta
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: thing where we have these heroines who are constantly saying
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not a princess, like literally in the movies, say
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: things like that. And I think Meg was kind of
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: the first version of that. She did it first, She
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: did it first. She said she did it without the
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: need to be like wink wink consumers, No, but she
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: was but literally like I'm a damsel, I'm in distress,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I can handle it, have a nice day like that girl.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Let's watch it right after that, honestly. But the thing
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: fortunately about that movie is I do know almost every
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: word of that movie, like the dialogue and songs, and
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I it's really hard to not engage. And I think
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: people that do that during movies are insufferable. Maybe, but
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I have to. I have to tell you. I think
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: I've told you this, but I've never said it on
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: the pod Hercules Disney. Hercules is in my bona fide
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: top five like albums of films of all time. I
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: got it. It honestly, at a certain point in my
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: life could have been in mind. I love it, you know,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I really love the Fates. They were very very important
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: to me as a child's representation matters, it really does,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: you know. It's the James Woods of it all does
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: make Hatie suck. But like Haiti's is such a good
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: villain and so fucking funny, great amazing line reads, and
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: a villain that you know is kind of the comedic relief,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: like we don't see that as much with other is
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Evelance before you know he because you have Ursula, but
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: she's not comedic, you know, she's I mean, she's sassy.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: But like Hades is like every single line he has
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: is a joke. Where Ursula it's like I'm fabulous and
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I have a few winky winks, which is scar to like.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I think, you know all these queer coded villains, is
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Hades queer coded? I think I could, I could. There's
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: certainly an argument to be made for it. I would think,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: I would say so personal. I think he wants to Hercules.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I mean everyone wants to fuck Hercules. Hercules. Um, I
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: mean honestly. But the uh the original story of Hercules
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I think is herk was born out of wedlock and
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Harra found out Athena fucking narc probably a Fenna is
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: the cop of great She probably was like guess what
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Zoos did again? And like, you know, had Hercules banished
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: or whatever? And actually now it's a ab all are
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: about but like, actually, though, I mean there's another. I'm
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: pretty Athena was the one that fucked over Medusa. Medusa
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: was you know, raped and then um by Poseidon and
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: then Athena was like, guess what happened, um, Medusa? Her
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: body is desecrated, let's banish her. And then she was
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: a priest. She was a priestess. Yes, oh I didn't
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: know that, I um. And then she you know, and
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: then SEUs was like or someone was like, your head
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: is snakes now, like as punishment for being raped, well,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: most of Greek pathology is just women being punished for
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: being raped, yes, and then covering it up and like
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: either like saying something about it and being punished literally
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: saying nothing about it and being punished, or being turned
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: into animals or turning themselves into trees to escape the
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: threat of being raised. I mean this is what um
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: we've talked about this before in the on the podcast,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: and like we will get into a discussion of you know,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: like adaptations of Greek mythology. But Um Wake Siren is
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: a really great book of short story is that are
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: retellings of Ovid tales and they're basically it's basically all
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: about sexual violence, um and and like those stories from
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: a very contemporary perspective because like Greek mythology, like the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: women are treated horribly as women in that society were,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: and that book is like a kind of reclamation or
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: nuancing of you know, stories that didn't have the historical
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: context to nuance them at the time. You know, like
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: that these conversations didn't exist. Conversations about rape didn't exist,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Conversations about you know, Peter Asty didn't exist, conversations about
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: like the word homosexual is a very new invention. Right. Also,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: even the term rape, like in classic tales, like does
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: not always mean rape. Like like you know, like there's
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: a very famous statue called the Rape of Persephone that
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: depicts Haiti is pulling Persephone into the underworld, but like,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: based on various translations, it's rape, is not necessarily like
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: always about sexual violence. Like sometimes it's about like a
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: woman being kidnapped against her consent. And so the idea
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: of rape and like it's sexualization is like kind of
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: murky in in Greek myth but in basically like gods
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: were always stealing these mortals away to do something with
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: them against their will because to them they were just
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: like pretty playthings. So you have something like the Guinea
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Maade story, right, and I was just like or like
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: the rape of Io, who like gets turned into a bowl?
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Oh right, They're always getting turned into I mean that's
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: literally what Ovid's metamorphosis about. It's about all of these
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: different figures in Greek mythology who transform and metamorphosized, getting
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: turned into different turned into Medusa's into swans, Peacock's trees, trees, spiders, yes, spiders,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: all that jazz. Greek mythology is very trans Which do
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: you think are the hottest kind of god? Okay? So
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the god that I truly would want to fuck, and
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I have thought long and hard about this is Hephaestus,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: because you know someone who can fuck the goddess of
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: love and like really throw it down, who also is
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: like hammering metal in a smith all day, a working
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: class himbo. Truly, that's who Hephaestus is, Like, that is
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: the god that I want to suck. Who would play
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: a Festus in like a modern day adaptation. It's kind
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: of giving, like a like working class him It's kind
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: of maybe not Adam Driver, because like Adam Driver's cast
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: into everything, but it kind of because Adam Driver would
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: suck Aphrodite, you know, like, but I also think like
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Hephaestus would be like kind of ugly, um, I mean
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: out of Driver, it's kind of ugly. But the thing
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: is if you can lay yeah, he's got shovel, I
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: mean he can lay that pipe. I want to know
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: what your other answers are, but I was gonna say,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: my my guests for you actually would have been argust
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: This girl. I'm holding up a picture of Greek mythology.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: It's the guy, the guy who's covered an eye, the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: guy that that's covered in eyes. He's hot in this
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: illustration too, if you want to google Argus de Laire's
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: book of Greek myths. Um and then also, like I
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: do think I would be into Hara because of her
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: mommy vibe. Jealous mommy jealous mommy vibes like she would
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: own my ass literally like fifty of like myths are
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: just like Zeus cheating on her and her having a
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: rage stroke and killing or transforming someone, And I would
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: love for her to take that energy out on me.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I think she. I would love to have Hara make
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: me cry. Honestly, there is a a really good Hara
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: adaptation somewhere because her a limited series. Yes, because every
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: single story she's in is her as this shrew who hysteric,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: hysterical shrew who is so angry that she has to
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: so angry about her husband or whatever. She would have
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: dumped Zeus. She was the original before he cheats carry
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Underwood vibes. Yes, but there's something interesting about that story
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: because there's Harry can't give up this relationship. She's also
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Zeus's sister because oh yeah, that's all, which is like
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: literally when you think about when you think about the
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Persephone myth, Hersephonie is given to Hades, who is her
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: uncle by her father, Zeus who is her dad who
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: fucked her mom Demeter, who is his sister, So it's
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: all in SSS. But with Harry, it's like she's trapped
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: in this relationship, like she is the figurehead of all
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: of Olympus, Like she can't leave her post. She just
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: has to deal with this Zeus bullshit all the time.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: And I think that is like a really good story,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So who which which Greek god would
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: you want to fuck? Or like, you know, rent an
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Airbnb and have a long weekend with, have a long
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: weekend with. I mean, would you want to spirit you
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: away to Olympus or to the underworld? When when I
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: was a kid, I was horny for Apollo and actually
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: one of my earliest I would say that, like Apolo
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: has got such mean twink energy he is, and he's
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: a mean god to like, he's not nice. What he
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: did to Cassandra very petty. Wait what did he do
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: to Cassandra? So Cassandra in the you know theron the
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Myth of Troy. You know, Cassandra is one of the
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: daughters of Troy and like Apollo wants her and she
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: rejects him, and so he places this curse on her
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: that she will have visions of the future, but no
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: one will believe her. Oh, is she the one that
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: launched a thousand ships? No, that's Helen of Troy, Thank you. Thanks.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Sandra is one of the Trojan Women, which we'll get to.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, we're jumping around so much, but I
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: love it. Okay, So as a kid, I have a
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: visceral memory rose of obviously you know when your kid,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: you like draw horny things like that that happens. And
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: this book delares book of business. This book um really
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: like you know, horned me up. And I have a
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: visceral memory of drawing this kind of depiction of Apollo
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: and then drawing these like chiseled abs on him, you know.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: And then I remember drawing it and finishing the drawing,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: and I then your mom saw you and then like
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: and then like prayed over your body. Luckily it wasn't
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: that well, I mean it did. I did. My horny
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: drawings did get discovered. I remember crying about it and
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: my dad being like, it's okay, like you you you
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: beautifully portray women and men's bodies. I remember my dad
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: saying something to that effect, like really weird, just trying
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: to like kind of be like my kids school gardens,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know how to do that. That's how
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: people have been like like dealing with gay stuff forever,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Like it's just art. It's just art. That's what most
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: of like Greek statues are. It's like all these men
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: like men like wrestling each other and they're like, oh
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: they were friends. Yeah. But I remember in fifth grade
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: like looking at the drawing and being like and I
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: remember I'm like over my on my bed finishing the drawing.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I remember looking at it. I mean like, oh no,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: like this is like I'm horny for this, and that
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: is going to be a problem, an ongoing problem for me. UM.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: But I haven't told this story on the pod before. UM,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: But this tattoo that I have of Apollo and High
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: and synthas Um, which is another beautiful um twink abduction
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: love story is my first memory of queerness, if not
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: my earliest memory. Cane um basically as t l DR
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: ver t l d R. It's a it's a really
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: short myth um. You know, Apollo as he just want
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: to do, falls in love with a twink named High
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: and Cinthis and you know they love each other and
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: they are you know as like gods do. And one
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: day they decided to play discus and Apollo is like
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: so toxic that he throws the disc is too hard
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: and kills High and Cynthis upon impact, and Apollo is
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: obviously forever time and then and Apollo is obviously devastated,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: and so he you know, creates the High and Scynth
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: flower in his honor um. But I remember it's like
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: I remember after finishing DeLay's Book of Greek Myths, I
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: moved on too books without pictures, Greek myths without pictures
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: and like, and I remember reading It's like it was
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: like three sentences of a myth. It was like a
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: long list of myth myths that I was reading in
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: a bible, thin pages like textbook. And I remember reading
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: like Apollo had a lover and his name was high
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Synthis and I was like his like what like? And
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: it was very It was definitely something that stuck out
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: to me. I think that might be a good jumping
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: off point to start talking about some of our other
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: favorite adaptations of Greek mythology um, which is definitely something
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: that has, you know, stuck with me throughout my life.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: And I do think there is a cycle where every
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: couple of years we get some new you know, text
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: added to the cannon. And right now we are kind
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: of in this renaissance of you know, these very contemporary
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: retellings of these classic stories. Um, well, I don't. It's
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: not a zance like there actually should be way more
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: like it should be. There should be. It's actually not
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: that many like it's kind of shocking how untapped A
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: lot of this is, yes, but but you know, Okay,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: So I think some of the formative ones for me,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: like we'll get to the current day, but some of
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: the formative ones for me, like over the years have
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: been things like Mary Zimmerman's Metamorphosis, which we discovered we
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: were both obsessed with huge I we did a performance
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: of it at my high school that I stage managed
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: question Mark, and it was like one of my favorite
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: plays I had ever read. It was um for me
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: when so I was a theater nerd and when I
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: was auditioning for colleges because I wanted to go into
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: an acting program, one of my audition monologues was from Metamorphosis,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: of course, um so for the virgins. Metamorphoses is a
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: play written by Mary's Emmerman that basically adapts all the
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: different like myths. Yeah, all the different exactly, and it's
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: like so romantic and sexy and beautiful and like I
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: think my monologue audition for it was Orpheus is but
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: like that depiction of Orpheus and Euridicies myth is like
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: one of my favorites ever because in the adaptation you
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: have to see Orpheus making the crucial mistake of you know,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: turning around and looking back back at it and seeing
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: the mistake over and over and over and over again.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: You know. The Orpheus and euridicy I think, really speaks
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: to this thing that the Greeks did really well, which
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: is tragic, you know, like something like Greek Greeks invented
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: theater as we know it um. I was a theater
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: kid in high school, and you know, Greek theater is
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: one of the foundations of any sort of like theatrical practice,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: and it's like one of the first things that you
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: learn about in theater school, both like when I was
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: in high school and the theater kid when I like
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: briefly studied acting in college before I realized it was
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: lame um and the great thing about the Greeks, and
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: like this carries on through the history of like storytelling
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: and like obviously you see it and things like Shakespeare
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: is this sort of like luxuriating in tragedy, you know,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: like it's very indulgent, Like these tragedies exist for that
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: experience of like like pushing on a bruise, you know,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: like reveling in sadness. Um. So things like orpheus and euridacy,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: like you know how that story ends, like and it's
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: been told a thousand times, um, but you just even
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: knowing how it ends, like you you want to luxuriate
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: and that feeling of despair. Um. I don't know. I
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: think you know this about me. But I very similarly
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: studied theater briefly and then decided it was lame and quit.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Did you know this? So I went to the DePaul
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Theater Conservatory for one semester, like because I graduated from
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: high school and you know, I was a theater kid
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: in high school, and I was like, theater is my
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: community and helped me realize who I am, so surely
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: it's what I want to do for the rest of
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: my life, which is like in America, like why do
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: we like pressure kids to think that they need to
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: know what to do with the rest of their life
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: when they are nineteen? Anyways, I went to the DePaul
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: Feeder Conservatory and uh really, like like we we had
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: to study like Greek tragedy, and I always thought the
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: tragedies were so fucking boring, Like I mean, they are
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: texted so and even like modern adaptations are boring, they
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: are in are boring, but there's just something about them,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: like I get it. I my senior year of high school,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I got cast in one of our main stage productions
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: and I had a lean in it. Um. We did
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: The Trojan Women by Euripides, and that is like it's
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: trauma pore and it's like about the aftermath of the
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: Trojan War and all of the leftover women and like
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: these women whose lives have been ruined, their husbands killed,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: that they've been raped, their city has been torn apart um.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I played Tolphibious, who's the Greek soldier who like throws
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Hector's baby off of like the walls of Troy. Um,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: my god, and it's so like at the time, like
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: we thought we were doing the most groundbreaking contemporization of
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Greek tragedy that had ever been done. And now I
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: look back and I'm like, oh my god. The parents
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: sitting through that must have been like what the fuck
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: is That's kind of something that I got to wear
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: a cape, so that is a cape a cape or
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: a cape let, honey. It is so funny though that
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: like retroactively, we look back on these moments and like
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: you think in the moment, you're like this is like
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: so good, like this is actually good, like even though
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: we're in high school, like this is so good. It's
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: like no, it's not, like you're This is like you know,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: like an adaptation of like a Greek myth about like
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: rape and motherhood. Like you and you as like you
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: as a seventeen or eighteen year old do not have
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: the emotional maturity to be able to bring this in
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: a meaningful way. You simply do not. And also we
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: had this like visiting teacher who directed it, who like
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: had gone to n y U and so and so
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: they like they brought all of these like sort of
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: like you know, contemporary theater ideas to this production. And
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: we did these like ritual quote unquote rituals on stage
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: that we're like very like modern dance. And it was
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: like what did you do to Like we were doing
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: viewpoints work if anyone out there, and it's like this
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: like thing we don't don't know, Yeah, I mean, if
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: you know what it is, I'm sure really saying that
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: was very triggering for you, and I like apologize, but
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: also to deal with it. You know, I think part
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: of honestly part of the way I feel about Greek theater,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: and I was like, this is boring is like partially
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: how I feel about Shakespeare sometimes because it is actually
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: really difficult for me to be like entertained by like
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Shakespeare as is Shakespeare, I feel totally different, you know,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: I know, I know you were were very different when
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: it comes to the Shakespeare at all. But like the
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: thing for me is that Greek mythology similar to Shakespeare
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: is like I think the stories have less resonance in
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: a contemporary world, but they did give us archetypes and
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: story tools that have you know, formed and influenced our
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: method of storytelling for centuries and centuries, you know. And
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: like when I think about like Greek tragedy specifically, it's
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: like we have you know, the like the term catharsis
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: because of that are like um and things like um,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: you know, a Greek chorus, Like that's an idea that
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: like you can see and like not even really need to,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: like you you under you immediately understand what's happening. Um.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: But yeah, like as I was mentioning before, right now
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: we are okay, maybe we're not in assence of you know,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Greek Greek Greek tellings, but there have been over the
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: past couple of years, especially in literature, a lot of
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: very modern adaptations of Greek myths. Button. But I think
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: the the difference with the trend now is that it's
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: applying a contemporary sensibility but keeping it in the classical setting.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm thinking specifically of the Song of Achilles and Searcy,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: both by Madeline Miller. I think we are like split
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: right down the middle where you're more of a Song
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: of Achilles girly and I'm a Searcy. Yeah, and that
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: really says a lot about who we are women, you know.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: A big part of my ethos actually, just like the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: things that I want to make now are very informed
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: by something that the books stood for, which was putting
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: queerness into a story that it's traditionally excluded from. And
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: like we just never get to see faggots or lesbians
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: or trans people like pick up the sword, you know
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: what I mean. We see them, Um, we see their innteriority.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: We see their heartbreak, we see their oppression, we see
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: like the systemic ways that they have like obstacles, but
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: like we never get to see them like you know,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: kill the fucking dragon, rescue the damsel, pick up the sword. Um.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: And I felt like that was something that was really
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: radical about Song of Achilles. And you know it also
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: is very like especially radical, and that it's not even
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: just like a retelling, Like it's not injecting queerness into
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: a story in which queerness never existed. It's reclaiming queerness
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: in a story that always was queer and was straight washed.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: And it totally reads very white a And also I
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: mean this is this is a compliment, not a dig.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Like it also reads like fan fiction, like it totally
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: is fan fiction. I mean all Greek mythology adaptations are
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: a fan fiction. Yes, but um, it's worth saying that
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Madeline Miller is a classics professor, so she has clocked
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the ten thousand hours on this, which I
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: think makes a lot of her work so much more compelling.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Like I hadn't read her work in a long time,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: and when I picked sir s up this month, like
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I forgot that she
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: just knows her ship and she and she has a
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: really I really like her writing style. It's very and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: this is also not a dig. It's very easy to read.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: It's very accessible, but still poetic, very poetic, dramatic, very melodramatic.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I really prefer Sercy because like, I'm always going to
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: be a witch girl writer, writer or die. Um, what's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: the story of we should actually for the virgins, clarify
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: the stories of Achilles and sars Okay first, okay, So
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Searcy is about the goddess Cercy, who is like like
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: often thought to be like kind of the mother of witches,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: like she in Greek mythology, like she is the classic,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: which I would say her in Hecate are kind of
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: the two which figures in Greek mythology. Hecate is the
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: goddess of magic. Searcy is a um daughter of a
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: a river god I believe. Yeah, well she's a she's
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: a daughter of Helios and one of his Sidon's daughters. Yeah,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: because he was just you know, sucking and fucking yeah. Um.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: And Searcy is a big figure in Um the Odyssey
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: because when Odysseus, Odysseus and his crew of men um
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: you know, end up on her eye end. She becomes
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: enambored with Odysseus, turns all his men into pigs um,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: and she and Odysseus are sucking and sucking um. And
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: so the the novel Cercy is really about um, you know,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: giving this woman who only is um like a character
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: in in other people's stories and specifically in men's stories,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: her own story and her own agency. Um. And it's
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: about you know, her being this goddess who like kind
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: of has no power of her own. And then like
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: literally like invents witchcraft. Yeah, and like um in the Odyssey,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: which like we don't even need to talk about because
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: it is like so boring, but like in the Odyssey,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: she is like a very minor character, Like she's a villain.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Who isn't she vanquished? Like, isn't she's not vanquished? They're
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: just kind of leave her yeah, um. And And so
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: like the kind of expanding of this story the way
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Madeline Miller does it is she creates opposition between magic
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: and the what what gods can do? And so the
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: fact that she had power is like something the gods
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: cannot get around. They can't do anything about her potions.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: They can't do anything about her manifest stations, her spells,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: like because you know, they don't know how to do
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: magic basically, So it's very fascinating. Um Song of Achilles
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: is literally just like a high school breakup story, but
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: told through like the Trojan the Trojan, it's not even
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: a breakup because they don't break up, just one of
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: them dies. I mean they did kind of technically break up.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Um uh. And Madeline Miller's telling of it is wonderful
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: because Patrick Cluse is the protagonist and Achilles is a
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: little toxic and I think super toxic. Yes, yeah, very toxic,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: because the whole idea of especially the way that Madeline
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Miller tells it, is like Achille knows that he if
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: he goes to war, will die young, but he will
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: die in glory and that is more importan into him
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: than having a long happy life with his lover Patroclus, right,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: And and it's real and so much of Greek mythology
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: is about knowing your fate before it happens and doing
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: the thing anyway. Yeah, And like I think Achilles, like
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: was he a demigod? Said he's a daughter of Thetis,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: who was one of Poseidon's daughters, and I honestly just
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: like I was going through a breakup at the time
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: and like had a really toxic partner when I was
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: reading it, and like I just remember being like damn,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: like this like myth from centuries and centuries ago. Madeline
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Miller was able to render with an emotional reality that
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: like I could access as a high schooler, Like it
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: was just it's just so beautiful. Um, but I love
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love her expansion of it because
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: you know, Patrick Loose and Achilles relationship is never explored
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: really in Greek mythology. It's just like their lovers and
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: that was it. Yeah, well, well there's the big thing
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: of Greek mythology is Achilles. Patrick Cliss again, like very
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: much like Cercy, is just like a throwaway character in
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: a larger story, Like you only get like Achilles, like um,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: you know, uh, like melodramatic outpouring of grief when Patrick
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Cliss is killed and it's what leads him to have this,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: you know, to kill Hector in this very like dishonorable way, um,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: and like leads to his death. And so it is
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: nice to have that story like fleshed out and like
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: to have this person who's like a footnote in history,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: given you know, all this agency and backstory and like death. Honestly,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: like Achilles was kind of giving like toxic masculinity top,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: and like Patrick Cluse was like Twinkie bottom, and like
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: Achilles hated like his effeminiscy. I actually think Patrick Luz
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: was the top. I don't. I don't, but that's like
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: for for like Greek historical reasons, because obviously, like gay
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: sex wasn't like frowned upon, right, like it was something
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: like that was people would have sex openly and like
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: it was totally okay to have male lovers, especially if
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: you were you know, at war, right like like um,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: and so because they thought that it would like engender um,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: like better camaraderie on the battlefield if the person you
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: were going to war with with someone that you cared
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: about in this like sexual and like sort of romantic way, right.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: And so you know, classicists like they don't find like
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: stigma and like you you around like gay sex stuff,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: but they do find stigma and judgment around penetration. So
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: the receptive partner is at times throughout Greek mythology shamed
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: for being the receiving partner. But part of the reason
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: why why pederasty was like acceptable was because when you
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: were pederasty is literally just like an adult man having
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: sex with a young boy, which was extremely common in
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: in uh kind of Greek mythological time, and it was
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: sort of like a mentorship kind of thing. Yeah. Sometimes
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: it was like my little toy. Sometimes it was a
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: mentorship things. Sometimes it was like you're my companion, You're
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: coming with me to war, You're gonna stay in my
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: tent and like bear my cup and stuff like that.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: So sometimes these our full relationship yeah, um, but it
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: was that you know that these boys were never looked
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: down on for being the receptive partners because they were
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: not yet citizens, right, And so that's kind of why
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: I think Patrick Louse is the bottom is because he
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: was the not the one that was glorified and made
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: the hero. Yeah, but like I get that that's like
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: the mythological baggage of it. But like in the way
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: I look at it, I think like Achilles, because he's
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: such a hot shot on the battlefield, Like when he
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: comes back to the tent at night, he needs someone
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: who's going to suck his brain. He can so he
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: can like unwind. That's that I'm writing. That's excellent, that's
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: the vibe. I know that. I think this is true.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: This also could just be like a byproduct of having
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: read a lot of fan fiction, but I think they
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: did a lot of like thig fucking. That's I was
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: literally going to say that there was intercural sex. Yes,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: that's what it's called. They would like that, they would
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: that would be there, um, that would be their loophole
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: around not being the receptive partner because also because I'm
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: sure it was very hard to you know, keep clean
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: when we were at war, yes, but because they would
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: be ashamed for being a receptive partner. They're like, oh,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: it's final, Just fuck your thigh gap and then we
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: can like kind of you ever done that, that's a complation.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: I have a couple of times. Actually, one time, even
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: even more unusually, someone fucked the crease of the back
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: of my knee and it like happened. It happened like
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: very organically. It's just kind of like I was spooning
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: with someone and like he was I think taller than
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: me and just kind of naturally like his dick like
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: slotted in into like the back of my knee and
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: he just fun and it was like weirdly really erotic.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and he did it to completion. Look at
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: a crevices and crevices and crevice, the crevices crevicing. Um yeah,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like honestly, like I will say, I do
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: like having sex with like just the ass crack. That
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: is something that I have done to completion. Um or
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: has been done to me to completion, but not a
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: thigh gap. And now it's something that I maybe and
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: I think like if you're squeezing the thighs together and
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: like you you know, it feels so good to like
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: rub between someone's cheeks, like you know, when it's like
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: a sort of just the tip kind of situation. I
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: was just about to say, it's kind of giving a
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: just the tip vibe or honestly that kind of like
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, Greek culture was very just the tip. There
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: was I was reading before that there was a god
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: of fertility called pre APIs who just had a giant
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: erection all the time, and they I know, right, and
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: there would be like little kind of like insignias of
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: pre aps on like people's like dull wars to signify
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: that they had like a strong man at the house,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: so like you where or whatever, which is like so fun.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: I wonder if there's like a um, a vagina version
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: of that where it's just like a woman with a big,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: like enormous pussy. Do you feel I feel like that
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: has to I hope so too. But considering you know, patriarchy,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: probably not, probably not UM. But the other thing is, like,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: you know, people would always have sex in public, people
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: would always have um orgies. And in Greek times, like
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: the men would carry around little sacks of oil, like
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: little lube sacks, like just on their belts because they
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: just always had to be ready, which is whack a doodle,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: But also just like I think paints a picture of
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: like what sex was like during that time. UM, I
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: think a lot about UM. Have you heard of this
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: sacred Band of Thebes? Yes, for the virgins. The Band
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: of Thebes was this army of three hundred soldiers or
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: rather a hundred and deep pairs of male lovers that were,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: you know, in the lore, undefeatable because they loved each
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: other so much. And that's and that's why we have
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: the movie. Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure the guy
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: who wrote three hundred has never credited the Band of
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: Thebes as his inspiration because his version of the story
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: is not the same like battle or myth of the
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Band of Thebes, but he literally rips off of the
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: myth of the Band of Thebes and then takes the
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: queerness out of it. But it's still pretty gay. It
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: is still pretty gay, but the army is like explicitly homophobic.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: There's a moment in three hundred where one of the
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: guys is like, oh, that boy lever or whatever, which
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: like that never happened in Greek times, Like that was
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: not how sentiment around men having sex with men existed.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: So it's like so ikey and stupid to me for
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: like someone to like kind of pull out what could
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: be the most interesting part of that story slash. All
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: I'm saying is that I'm probably gonna adapt this, and
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna well, that was gonna be. That was gonna
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: be My next question, Like, if you were going to
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: adopt you know, a Greek myth or story or like
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: a particular god or goddess or whatever into you know,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: a book or a limited series or a movie, what
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: would it be? Forgive me? I have multiple answers. One
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: of them would be a band of thebes. I think that,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: you know, three hundred soldiers sucking and fuckingto victory is
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: an amazing and that should be the title. But it's
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: kind of like a I mean, I've never actually read
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: like a kind of textual reading of the myth or whatever,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: so I don't know actually what they did, but like
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing to think about, like, you know,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: going to battle, slaughtering a bunch of people, going back
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: to camp just fucking, just like sucking to get the
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: adrenaline out of your system, and that gives you the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: energy and willpower to like go into the next battle.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Like that's amazing. Um. I have written an erotic adaptation
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: that is set in the modern day of Zeus and
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: gay Meade that is going to be published in um
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: a compilation like next year. I will send it to you.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's pretty I mean, it's pretty graphic. Um,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: it was so fun to make sure to keep my
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: little um my belt sachet of lube. But in my
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: act keep that thing. In my adaptation, You're gonna roll
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: your eyes because it's so on the nose. In my adaptation,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Zeus is like this, like you know, real estate, UM
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: kind of mogul club owner who owns a club called Olympus.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: And Ganya Meade is a bottle boy twink that you know,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: he meets and usurps when it's when it's right, it's right. Um.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: So I'll send that to you. But my real answer,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: the thing that I literally actually have started to like
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: write as something that, um, I would I mean, I
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: think it could be a series, but it would also
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: be a very good book, is Dionysus. He is currently
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: my favorite. I mean, he's my favorite god. I think
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: I think that you know, for the virgins, he's the god.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: Everyone says he's the god of wine, but he's the
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: god of hedonism. He's the god of transnis queerness. He
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: you know, was very gender fluid, um. And he you know,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: unfortunately had this like cult of like women who he
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: you know, subscribed to his ideologies and like would rip
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: people apart. And that's like the ugly story. But I
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: think that there's an interesting version of that of someone
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: who understands the transformative and addictive power of pleasure and
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: uses that to manipulate a crowd. Um. And I think that, honestly,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: there aren't stories of Dionysius that are as queer as
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: he is, you know, and I feel like there's a
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: version of the you know, the enclave of people in
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: his entourage that is like every all genders and everyone's
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: kind of like fucking and indulging. Um, what about you,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: what would you adapt? Well? I, you know, I think
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: my answer would have been a lot different when I
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: was a teenager. Um, you know, looking at this book
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: of myths that we have in front of us, the
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: one that I was always the most drawn to was
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: the Artemis story. And like when I was a teenager,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: I would have loved to do like a sort of
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: I think Artemis has a big, kind of buffy energy,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: so that kind of like you know, young warrior girl
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: kind of thing, like this eternal maiden. Um, that would
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: have been really interesting. But well, for the versions, what
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Artemis story does the book tell? Oh, it's just like
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: about Artemis and like the guy who's in love with her,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: who she turns into a deer. The guy watches her
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: bathe non consensually, and then she catches him and she's like,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: you're a deer now, motherfucker. She's got us of the hunt,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: by the way, Yes, And like feminism question and the moon,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: but there's other moon goddesses. I mean, Salne also would
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: be a great story, but like also some problematic like
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: consent stuff there, But no, I mean my real answer
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: is I think it's kind of expected, but it's also
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: a thing that I can't believe has not been done,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: which is a Medusa retelling. And like I am going
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: to be like kind of obvious and say, like I
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: think it would be incredible to do it as a
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: trans story, Like I think, like the idea of this
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: woman being being raped and then like someone like tells
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: on her, Like I think it's a retelling where Athene
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: is a turf Medusa's trans um. But but I really think,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: like if I never get around to it, like that's
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know how there hasn't been like a contemporary
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: like reclaiming of Medusa as a feminist figure, because the
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: only ways we've seen her are as a monster in
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: someone else's story. And I do think I could do it,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: but I just don't have the sort of like scholarly
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: like ability to really um research antiquity enough to make
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: it the tail it could be not But maybe I
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: could do one that's like more vibes well, I mean
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: I I personally like when I when I've started to
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: write about dionysis, I don't want it. I would never
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: ever write ancient dialogue like I would never I would
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: not I would be writing temporary dialogue. I would still
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: want to set it in that time period, but I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: don't make who knows. Maybe after I finished my book,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: like that's the next thing I'll work on. I was
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: gonna say, I categorically reject the lexicon of get around
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: to it, because I think it's something you need to
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: do immediately. And Virgins, if anyone adapts Medusa before Rose does,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: we will find you and kill you. But also, if
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: anyone up there wants to like option trans Medusa, hit
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: me up, tell us what you thought about today's episode.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: We want to hear what your favorite Greek myth is. Yes,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: santag Us at Like a Virgin nine, please leave us
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us so much.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: I'm your co host, Rose Damn You. You You can find
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: me anywhere you want on social at Rose Damn You
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm a friend. You can find me at France
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Squish go anywhere you want subscribe to Like a Virgin
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: anywhere you listen to podcasts. Um rate us on Spotify,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: leave a comment on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: an iHeart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane, Chitch and
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: Nikki Etour until next week, See you later, Virgins. No chance,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: no way, I won't say no no it didn't. I
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: oh