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Book Club: Juliet Takes a Breath · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I will put my
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you product if I heart to you,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another edition of book Club Pride Month edition.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Although we do talk about this stuff all the time,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: so I will say this is a pretty recent book.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: It came out in twenty sixteen, so spoilers if you
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: haven't read it. We are talking about Gabby Rivera's twenty
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: sixteen book, Juliette Takes a Breath. It is an award
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: winning book. It's really a highly reviewed that. It was
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: partially inspired by Rivera's own coming out and feminist journey
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: at the age of nineteen, and it is a really
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: great coming out story. It's a great coming of age story.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: It's a great figuring out your whole deal story. It
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: has themes of family, of being Puerto Rican in America,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: of trying to learn and grow but also realizing what
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: doesn't work with you, and finding your own voice. By
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the way, we have talked about Gabby Rivera before because
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: she also wrote the solo series America about America Chavez
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: for Marvel. So we've done two episodes on America Javaz
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: check those out. Who is and this is a quote
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: from Rivera's website, a portal punching queer Latina powerhouse. So
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: also Rivera hosts Joy Uprising, which is a podcast that
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: quote brings together her favorite revolutionary humans to honor joy
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: in a chaotic world. So that's cool. And this work
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: was adapted into a graphic novel, and we were just
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: talking about that. I don't think that episode has come
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: out yet, but we were just talking about how we
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: joy graphic novels that don't necessarily fit into what you
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: might think a graphic novel should look like. So I
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: think that's really cool. So let us get into the plot.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: This story largely follows queer Latinx teen Juliette, who has
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: grown up in the Bronx, surrounded by her family, like
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: has never left the Bronx. During her first year of college,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: she discovered the book Raging Flower Empowering Your Putty by
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Empowering Your Mind by Portland, Oregon based white feminist Harlow
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Brisbane or Brisbane. It was a really important book to her,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: so she writes to Harlow that's how the book opens,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: explaining how much it impacted her, how many questions she has,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and asks for an internship Harlow offers her one for
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: college credits, where Juliette would be helping with Harlow's next book.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: At the same time, juliet is struggling with deciding whether
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: or not to come out as a lesbian to her family.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: She is in love with her girlfriend and she is
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: weighing on her She hasn't come out. She does come
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: out the night before she leaves her Portland, and it
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: has mixed results, but especially her mom is not cool
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: with it, calling it a phase and kind of walking
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: away and closing herself off. So Juliette goes to Portland,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: is picked up at the airport by Harlow, who is
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: immediately like a hippie, astrology or a white woman. From here,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: we learned that Juliette has anxiety and asthma, and when
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Harlow changes the assignment to it's still for the book,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: but she changes the assignment to tracking down women based
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: on scraps of information that Harlow has collected over time.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Juliet freaks out, only compounded by the hostility of another
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: person staying with Harlow named Fenn, and the general lack
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: of people of colored. Juliette does her best tracking the
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: women on these scraps, developing an interest in the librarian Kira.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: At the same time, her girlfriend is avoiding her, not
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: answering her text calls. Juliette is introduced to a lot
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: of new ideas and terms, and Harlow takes her to
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: an Octavia Butler writing class, where juliet writes a sci
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: fi story and then witnesses an awkward encounter with Harlow
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: lecturing other white women. Maxine, a black woman who is
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: in a poll relationship with Harlow, asks Juliette about it later. Eventually,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: things culminate into Harlow using Juliette in a racist, tokenist
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: way to prove she is what she, as a white feminist,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: has done and has done the work. Juliette panics at
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: being used like this and by someone she respected, and
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: she books a flight to Miami to see her cousin, Ava,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: who has long been telling her to come visit and
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: they can talk about all these big ideas. There, Juliete
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: reconnects with her aunt, who her mother claimed was gay,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: and Ava, who answers her questions about a whole host
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: of intersectional feminist topics, and Ava takes Juliette to a
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: party for queer people of color. While there, Juliette feels
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: happy and free. She leaves her EX message because yes,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: by this point they have broken up. It was like
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: a letter that her center. It was like I found
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: someone else. We're broken up. And then her EX responded again,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: was like I made a huge mistake. I'm so sorry.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: We have to talk, and Juliette's like, actually, I'm good.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: So she leaves her ExM message saying, yes, I hope
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: one day we can be friends, but I we're not
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: going to get back together. She and her mother make amends.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Juliette goes back to Portland, where Harlowe tells her that
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: she and Maxine have broken up and that she's been
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: jealous of Maxine's other partner, and offers Juliette acupuncture as
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: a sort of non apology. Juliette talks to the people
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: of color like Maxine about Harlowe and eventually confronts her,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: telling her how much that whole thing hurt her, how
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: racist she'd been, how Juliette felt guilty for not saying
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: anything but that Harlowe's work was important to her. Then
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: she has a moment in the river, because this all
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: happened over a hike where she accepts everything she's learned,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: all what the women have taught her, and how much
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: she still has in front of her, and she takes
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: a breath and she returns home with writing ideas in mind.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: That's verridence. So there are a lot of big themes
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: in this book. One of the biggest is feminism. Here's
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: a quote from the opening from the letter that Julia
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: writes to Harlow. But I'm writing to you now because
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: this book of yours, this magical Labia Manifesto, has become
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: my bible. It's definitely a reading from the book of
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: white lady feminism. And yet there are moments where I
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: see my round browns in your words. I wanted more
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: of that, Harlow, more representation, more acknowledgment, more room to
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: breathe the same era as you. We are all women,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: we are all of the womb. It is in that
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: essence of the moon that we share sisterhood. That's you.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: You wrote that, and I highlighted it, wondering if that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: was true. If you don't know my life and my struggle,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: can we be sisters? Can a bad white lady, like
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: you make room for me. Should I stand next to
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: you and take that space? Or do I need to
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: just push you out of the way claim it myself
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: now so that one day we'll be able to share
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: this earth, this block these deep breaths. So I like that,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: like getting to the end, we do. You know what
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: happens both with Harlow but also with the like taking
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: a breath, that whole theme throughout that she takes that
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: breath at the end, and that does you know from
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the second you read it, you're like, oh no, don't
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: meet your heroes. When you're like first introduced to Harlow,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh no, no, no, no, like ooh, which
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: leads us to white feminism and racism, which is a
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: big topic of discussion in this book. Here's another quote.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Harlow made it seem like those white girls had to
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: give us something, I replied, turning my head up a little,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: like as if we couldn't do our thing without them.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: See you get it? She said, she being Maxine here.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Space isn't theirs to give to us. Nor is Harlow
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: separate from those girls. They are her, she is them.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: White allies need to keep that distance out of their
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: community education. Damn. But like at least she said something, right,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I asked. Maxine raised an eyebrow, shaking her head. Her
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: rich full laugh wrapped me up. These sweet potatoes and
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: mushrooms weren't trezo and a side of toastonaise, but they
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: were love. I joined in with my wheeze laugh. Her
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: shoulders heaved up and down with each breath. She'd fit
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: right in at the breakfast table back home. Maxine dapped
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: at her eyes with her napkin, in all love and seriousness.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: She slowed down and looked at me square in the eye.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: You know, just saying something is good enough until it
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: isn't at all. So I think, also going back to
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: that first quote we read where she's talking about like
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: taking space or like pushing out of the way, that
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: hearkens back to this this moment in this quote, and
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of there's a lot of conversation
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: about like microaggressions and tokenism, and Maxine and Harlow's relationship
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: is really interesting where they seem to kind of push
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: each other a lot, that keep coming back to each other.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: But also it's like Harlow doesn't know so much about vaccine.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: So it's a little hmmm.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I think this all really just takes place in an
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: understanding that because a lot of white feminists take under
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: the pressure that they must be a savior. She does
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: talk about being a savior and having that savior complex, which,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: you know, anybody who is marginalized knows this feeling that
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: people who come in with like I have to stand
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: up for you, and I'm going to do this for
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: you and I and and if they're not getting the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: appreciation they think they deserve, then they feel like they're
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: the next victims.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: They're the victims of this situation.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: And that's what Maxine talks about, is like, this is
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: why you this is what you're doing. You're not doing
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: this to be an ally. You're doing this to get
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to be the center of the conversation again. And that's
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: that level. Because two white girls complained that the space
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that they had gone to an event was for black
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and brown people and that white people were well come
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: to join, of course, but this was not their space.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: This is for them to observe. And then two white
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: girls complaining about like why can't it just be all
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: about every you know, all of us as is unity
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and this was always the problem to begin with because
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: when it's quote unquote all of us, it means white centered, privileged,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: white centered problems and again leaving out any marginalized person,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: specifically black people and black and brown people in general.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And we're talking about like the black community and the
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Latino community as a whole, because we know that's the
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: depth of the racism, and that there's this later privilege
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: and that Harlowe once again thinking that she was being
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: a savior coming to the rescue without hearing, without speaking up,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: without actually taking time to learn, and that's that bigger
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: level of like see what I did for you kind
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: of thing. And Harlow does that again later where she's like,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: of course I'm the big, bad white white lady, you
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: know that can't do anything again, centering herself in that
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: conversation instead of listening about what is going on going
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: on mazine talking about And then I get this taking
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: any scrap of what seems like goodwill and really like
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: and the same thing with obviously Juliette learning about feminism,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: and this is someone who is a feminist who really
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: loves her body as a woman, and then like coming
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: in as like not being in love with a man
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: and not being centralized around men. So this is kind
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: of that elementary level, an introduction to feminism. So you
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: get really really enthralled by that and really excited, and
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: you want to run with that because it's something new
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: for you. But when you start and Maxine was the
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: same way, she was like she kind of said she
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: was worried about Julia doing the same thing Maxine did,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: being enthralled with this woman who seemed like such an
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: open minded genius of her time, quote unquote, and then
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: as you start really unfolding all the layers, you realize, oh,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: but that's absolutely one dimensional. Absolutely it stops at her privilege,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: it stops at what she gets and she's done. And
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: that's that same level again with like white feminism when
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: we talk about it is they don't want to go
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: beyond when they get their rights.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: It's there.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: They go to get it first, and then we'll focus
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: on everything else instead of seeing the underlying issues. And
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that's what she's talking about. Scene is talking about specifically
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: here is like she's getting what she wants. She wants
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: to be the hero, she wants to be the savior.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: This is not actually being a good ally a good
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: comrade in this conversation, and I think it really opens
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: up Juliet's eyes, who hasn't had any feminism point blank
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: and realizing, oh, this may not be the route, like
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: her saying that she's an ally doesn't mean she's an ally,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and then seeing her cousin, which I know we'll talk about,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: who has been fully undated in that world as well,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: but from a Latino cultural background, like she's coming at
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: like being a feminist and what it looks like as
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: a brown person, as a Latina person, and understanding the
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: depth of colonization that happened to Puerto Rico and why
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: inherently why people can't be trusted who manam want to
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: say that because that's kind of that level. It was
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: like the heroine that she thought Harlow was actually ended
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: up being someone who was just as aggressive, just microaggressive
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: in the ways that she was being welcomed into this community, right.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: And I feel that it was such a great depiction
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: of because we've talked about this, when you go to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: college and you realize like, oh, I didn't know about this,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: or oh I didn't know about this, and you want
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: to learn more, and Juliette is such a fun character
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: in that way because she's she describes herself as very bookish,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: like she wants to learn more. She gets this list
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: of book suggestions from Ava, and like seeing her learn
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: more about her culture and what happened, and like the
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: confrontation she has with her white girlfriend about Banana Republic.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it was just it felt very
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that experience of when you go to college and just
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: you meet people and they open all these doors for you,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and sometimes they've been there that whole time and you've
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: just never asked them the question, right, which sort of
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: ended up being the case with Ava, who yes, we
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: will talk about I love that, but yes, so Harlowe
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: at this reading is asked a question about you know,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: intersexual feminism essentially, but you know, including people of color
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and what she's doing for that, and she uses Juliette
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: as a token and paints her life completely inaccurately and
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: completely racistly about like she got out of the Bronx
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and it, you know, it was very violent and difficult
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and that wasn't her life at all.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Her poor area.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: They lived in a nice area. They actually really happy
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: she went to college. She's fine, none of that was
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: a conversation I don't understand.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Right, So Juliette goes to Miami after that, she's so upset.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Then she comes back with all this, you know, like
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: newfound knowledge, and they go on this hike and Juliette
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: confronts Harlowe and here's a quote from that. That's not enough,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I continued, holding the tree I just kicked. And what
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: sucks is that I know that you know that deep
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: down you also know you get a pass, maybe not
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: from Maxine and Zira, but from every white lady in
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that room. All of them just looked at me all
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: sad like, as if they were ready to discover their
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: own little lesbian latina from whateverhood and make themselves a
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: savior too, right, Yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: But also like, and I think it's something to be noted.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: At the very beginning of the book, you meet Finn,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: who is a Filipino uh person, young person that lived
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: with her, and obviously, from what we gathered, his mom
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: was in a relationship with Harlow and they all lived
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: as a family, and then his mom just left. So
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: he has a lot of feelings and he was very
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: antagonistic to juliet And I think It has something to
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: do with the fact that it is very much Harlowe
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: being like, I'm going to collect these people of color
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: to save them, And it was a big hint at
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the very beginning of what this was like. She really
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: has a huge say of your complex in being this
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: goddess fairy for each one of them and showing them
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the way without understanding like, hey, you're actually in the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: way at this point, like you are a part of
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: you are the problem in this conversation, you like collecting
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: literally marginalize people for your crew of followers.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: We don't know what what you're doing.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And obviously she very much says that out loud during
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: that moment of like, look what I've rescued, as if
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: she as if Juliette was a puppy from a pound,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: and Juliette finally like she's having it. I love I
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: loved how well Riviera played this in that insecurity of
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: finding your voice because you know you're too insecure to
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: speak up because you're just learning, and you know you're
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: in a powerhouse full of people who have been in
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: this world for a long long time. Also, you're in Portland,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: and I can't imagine the juxtaposition of being from the
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Bronx coming to Portland because I couldn't imagine myself, but
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: like having that and then trying to figure out your
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: voice being nineteen with all these middle asied women who
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: are talking so many new terms, whether it's polyamory or
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: whether it's about gender pronouns. And this was in the
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: early two thousands, so this is my age. Rage. I
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is lovely this. I know this.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I know this feeling of being new and traveling by
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: myself or being somewhere new by myself in the early
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: two thousands, trying to figure it out where everybody was
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: somewhat accepting, but there was no actual terms for things,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: like it was all very new and it was so
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: new that people were scared of it, Like this was
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: during that time, and so I loved seeing that perspective
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: that she put onto her character Juliet, which she understood
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: very well because she was like walking into a whole
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: new environment completely and trying to learn. So was trying
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: to find their voice, and that soul like moment with
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Maxine where Maxine's like, you knew something was off, but
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: you didn't know how to phrase that. You don't know
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: what is off, and I think again, I'll talk about it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I'll feel that way when people are saying things like
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: your English is really good or all these things, and
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this feels off. You know, you're trying to
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: be nice to me and you're trying to get to
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: know me, but in a weird way because you would
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: not ask any white person this question. So I'm very confused,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: especially with my accent anyway, But like her learning all
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: these level but not being able to say because you're
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: just trying to fit in. You're trying to be appreciative
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: of being noticed or being talked to, being like being
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: a part of something in general. So like having her
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: come to that point of being like nom pissed. You
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: know you're wrong, and you know that in between this,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: if saw this, they would paint me as the aggressive
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: person again from the hood as you try to put
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: me while you are just being so nice and kind
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and helping a young girl out, Like that's literally the
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: picture that you portrayed, and you know how wrong that is.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And you have not said I'm sorry, and you've not
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: made a public apology and understanding and admitting that you
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: are wrong, as in fact, you've like doubled down by saying, look,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I'll introduce you to another Latino person. You're welcome. I
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: found one of your kind, essentially is what she's saying.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: And I want to put this in here, and I
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: know I'm going to get some people will get real
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: mad at me. And when I say this, but in conversations,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: when you see this of people with good intentions and
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: you are a person of marginalized community and you're trying
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: to come in and figure yourself out. And I say
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: this as a person who's trying to figure myself out,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: there are moments when you kind of wish that You're like,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I have too many white people in my life, and
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: you're like, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to back off
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: because instead of trying to help you discover who you
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: are in this whole space, in this space of intersectionality,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: they try to tell you how they're going to help you,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: but it's all again white centered. And this is what
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Harlowe was doing to juliet And thank god Juliette was
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: able to meet Magazine and Zara as well as her
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: new flame, which I'm sure we're talking about, Kira, of
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: seeing different perspectives on what was happening, because she needed
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: that to unfold the rest of what was missing in
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: her life, like the rest of the learning and unlearning
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: that she needed to do, and her own cousin Ava,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: thank God, is a part of that too, and how
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: much they realized with each other, like they really are
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: have common ground and maybe even her little brother that
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: we find out later on, and I think that's beautiful,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: but that this is that conversation that is so real
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: to me that I'm like, yeah, yeah, it kind of
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: gets to the point of like white allies mean well,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: but they talk so much that they don't realize this
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: is more hindrance. And this is where white feminism gets
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: in the way. Listeners, I love if you are a
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: white person, please don't think this that I'm saying this
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: as an attack, but just coming from an all white
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: space as I have, and I'm telling you it's all
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: white space as in like my family and all of that.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: You realize what boundaries that they put in front of
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: you or sometimes you know, what kind of obstacles I
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: put in front of you because of their good intentions.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't it's not it's not in the end
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: that great, and this is where we see with Harlowe
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting that this book when
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I looked up when it came out, I was like, really,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: January twenty sixteen, because presumably had been written before that,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: but that is when we had the Women's March, and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: that was no rightfully called out for being white women
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: wearing these pink hats and sort of like pushing other
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: people out. And because of the title of Harlowe's book,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: it has put me in the name. I just assumed,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and maybe it did because that's that was around before
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: that march. But I was just like, the timing is
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: very interesting.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I think she was definitely making sure to a not
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: only be a little bit autobiographical and in her own story,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: but it also really she does it in a genuinely
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: good way that again I read into this, and I
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: think probably a little bit differently in that level because
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: in seeing her come to terms with what she was
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: seeing because in her own again, I grew up being
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: told that I was being saved by white people, so
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: that wasn't new to me. It was trying to let
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: go of the fact that I'm like, I gotta stop
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: like falling into that for her to be seen as
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: that it was so new because she has a very strong,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: very influential family, Puerto Rican family who have held her
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: up in those traditions. Like she talks about the food
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: feeling homie, and she's like loving it and missing it,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: missing the like being hugged by her mom and getting
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: like the moments of like just being able to put
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: her head and smelling her mom and knowing that she
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: can be comforted that way, like going to see her
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: aunt and getting that hug that she needed because you know,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: it was familial.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: But all of that to.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Say is like to see like her intentions of being like, oh,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: this is what the white community or like sees me
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: as as someone that needs to be rescued. What is
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: this and then not sure how to handle that because
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: it's so new to her because that was never a
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: thought for her. And interesting enough, like she never saw
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: that with Laney because she thought Laney, which maybe I'm
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: just putting words in her like writing in that Laney
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: was that person also like both of them were experiencing
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: new things. But it seemed like because she said, Sarah
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: the new girl was probably a white girl and she
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: now she's got to what she wants that she can
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: show presentably mm hm as a better representation for being
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: a good feminist lesbian. That it meant being white as
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: she saw it as as like Juliette saw it, And
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I think that in Lanie, who was very
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: very white, you know, according to what we read like
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: that to me was like that was a new realization
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: as well, and what she was to Laney possibly to
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: what she was to the rest of the world as well.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Like I think I found that interesting and I really
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: think that for me, Viera did a great job in
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: showing that as showcasing the a new a new baby
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: feminist that she says, or a new baby lesbian she.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Says, yes, and Lane is the girlfriend that they broke up. No, yeah,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: because Lane didn't want to introduce she was scared to
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: introduce Juliette to her like suburban white family. I think
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: we have a quote about that later. And then she
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: meets Sarah presumably yes white girl, and then she's not
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: so worried about it anymore. But then I guess it
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: didn't work out, or either she panicked but Juliette wasn't
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: a good or she was in a better place, and
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'm good she found her,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: she said, she did. I did want to include this quote.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: This is from when Ava and juliet are just having
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: their like amazing back and forth about feminism and thoughts
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: about feminism, when Juliette goes to Miami. And one of
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the criticisms Ava has about the book is kind of
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: the emphasis and pre diference placed on like periods and
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: all like that stuff. So here's a quote. Her consistent
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: linking of genital's to gender as an absolute is violent
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: as hell. It's a closed fist instead of open arms,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: you know. And besides, she added, staring at herself unflinching
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: in the mirror, womanhood is radical enough for anyone who
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: dares to claim it.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. Like, Kira said that too. Kira
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: said that she is very focused on women, like she
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't like she equates women in a vaginas in a
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: story in this and not allowed for the in betweens,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: and just being like the goddess has been feminine, which
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: feminine could be all across all genders, and we know this,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: but like in general, like she specifically aims to women,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: equating that the only way a woman is powerful is
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: through their vagina and uterus, and again it is very problematic,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: especially in a world where she is supposed to be
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: a leader for the quick community. You know, like you're
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: leaving out a lot of the LGBTQI plus peoples and
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: you are excluding when you were saying you don't want to.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Exclude, yes, And you know you and I have talked before,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: we talked recently not everyone who identifies as a woman
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: as period for multiple reasons, right, And also, like I
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: do get, we've talked about this too. There's something in
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: our culture, in our society, periods are taboo. We don't
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: talk about them. I do get trying to, like, let's
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: talk about it. Let's there was period pride, it was
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: a huge thing while back. But in doing so, if
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: you're like leaving out everyone else, if you're not, if
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: that's your main focus and you're not talking about anyone else,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: then you're yeah, you're excluding a lot of people, right,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, Which kind of leads us into
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: the next theme I wanted to talk about, because there
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: is some there's elements of homophobia in here, of because
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: clear Juliette is how the book starts, is she's really
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: nervous about coming out to her family, and so she
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: she's like actually going back and forth about whether she
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: will at all, but then she finally does. It kind
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: of just comes out of her, like she says it,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and everyone kind of doesn't believe her. I was like, oh, yeah,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I've used that old excuse too. But then she says
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: it outright after having a very sweet conversation with her
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: little brother where he's very like, no, you got this.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: So she does it, and then, like I said, mixed results.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: But her mom was definitely the one that was the
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: most like, oh no, this is not correct. So here's
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: a quote from her mom. It's this book, isn't it?
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: This book about Mgina's. Has you messed up in the
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: head and confused? She said, looking past me anywhere but
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: at me, her voice heavy but not angry. My father
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: reached out for her hand and held it. No, it's
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: not raging flower. I love Laney. It's never felt like
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: this with a boy, I said, tears betrayed the tiny
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: bit of strength in my voice. Little Melvin bowed his
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: head low, his cheeks flushed. He nutched his knee into
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: mine and kept it there. I pushed my plate of
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: food aside, Mom and I stared at each other and
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was falling. But Juliette, she said,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: you've never had a boyfriend, so how would you know.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: All you know are these neighborhood boys. You haven't give
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: any of the boys at your college a chance. You
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: might like Laney, but it's not the same thing. I
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: promise you that love I love her, you don't know
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: anything about my feelings. So that's how it went. And
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: this was her final night before she left. And I think,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: like in that conversation, because this is a fairly quick read,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I would say packs in a lot and a lot
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of the stereotypes are kind of responses people get in
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: my experience when coming out, that it's a phase, you'll
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: grow out of it. Of course, it's a trend. I
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: do kind of it cracks me up this whole, like
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: you read this book and now you're gay, because that's
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: what they used to like ban books a lot of
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: times where people because the percentage of LGBTQ plus people
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: is higher than ever, people think it's like books or
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: whatever that's turning them gay. But as we've said before,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: it's more likely that they've just know this is a
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: thing now, right, and they might not have before. Rivera
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: has like an interesting comparison where Juliette is thinking about
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: not being Puerto Rican enough, Like has she'd gotten people
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: saying she wasn't Puerto Rican enough for not liking or
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: not knowing about certain music or about certain things, and
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: how having that experience made this make her feel like, oh, okay,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: well maybe I'm not gay enough. And then that's compounsioned
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: when she goes to Portland and she learns all these
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: new terms in the world of feminism and like maybe
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not a feminist enough, like all of those things.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, in both of those situations, Yeah, she's
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: talking about being tested. Yeah, and then we I think
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: we can know that when anything. We're like, I'm a
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: fan of this band and you're like, oh you are.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: We'll tell me the name three songs, you know, like
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: just stuff like that that we see. But when it
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: comes to your identity and you're like, what the hell,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: why do I have to prove myself I exist?
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Like I'm here, I don't.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know how else to tell you, Like I
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: deal with the same microaggressions that you do, and assumptions
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: that you do. I literally I laugh because the other
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: day I had someone ask me if I like being
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: here and this is all?
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: This is for real?
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: And I was like, what do you mean?
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: You mean? Like where? What now?
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: And I kind of bypassed that question. Then he asked
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: me again and like do you like being here? And
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: I said where to cater and then he was like, no,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: the US and I was like, oh uh, I've been
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: here like like and he like trying to backtrack. And
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: this was a younger dude, and I was like, are
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: you are you kidding me? I just wanted to get
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: my carbaged. I'm not really sure where that came from,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: but okay, but like being tested and being told that
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: at the same time being like, but you're not really
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: like that that level of conversation the same way with feminisms,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: like but are you do you support these things? Or
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: do you not support these things? Or do you devote
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: this way? Have you done these things? Are you part
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: of these activism? Are you like are you marching in
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the streets every day? Like have you, like a boycotted
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: all these like you? There's so many levels of like
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: you have to prove yourself and it's not good enough
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: for most people, and there's different levels of what constitutes
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: you being enough of these are things and she says that,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: and then I kind of wanted to go back to
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: about how the whole the phase you grow, you'll grow
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: out of it, because I really loved the Auntie line
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: in which the daughter Ava was like, Mom, you're bye too.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: We're both by Are you kidding me? And the aunt
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: laughs and says, yeah, I guess that's what it is.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: We're by this, meaning that even though her sister, Juliete's
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: mom was like, your aunt went through up phase two
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: and like this girl, and the aunt was like, no,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I loved her. I loved this woman, but it didn't
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: work out and that hasn't changed the fact. But I
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: still love her today, as in like, I have not
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: changed from being by. I just am with a man,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: which is what we see so often in the BY community.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I know Annie that you have talked about this, like
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: we've talked about this repeatedly, about the fact that just
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: because you see them, you see someone in a hetero relationship,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: does not change that they are queer, like they still
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: are bisexual, and that kind of the Auntie was like, no, yeah,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I'm by, yeah, absolutely, and like all of them hugging together,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: loving each other and being like even though the mom
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: really thought she had Juliet with this point in actuality,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: the aunt was like, no, I haven't changed it. I'm by.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: I just didn't know the word for it. I just
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: am who I am, essentially is what they were having
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: that common. But I really loved that was a confirmation
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: for Juliette of being like, it's okay, it's okay, and
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: it's not a face, Like I don't see that as
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: a face either, which is still really, really, really offensive
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: in every way it is. Oh, here's another quote. It
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: says tee Wepa didn't move. She stared hard at me
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: and said, you were born in the middle of the
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: night on a Monday, September sixth, nineteen eighty three. I'll
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: never forget that day as long as I'm living and breathing.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: My brother came out of the delivery room, first time
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: in my life I'd ever seen him cry and told
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: us you were a baby girl. Tit wiped her eyes.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: I've loved you from that moment and I always will.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I don't care if you're gay or if you shave
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: your head, or or if you become a falcon, offered
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: little Melvin from the backseat, tit Weppa laughed, Or if
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you become a mother Falcon, I'm your t tee and
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: nothing will ever change my love for you. I really
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: wish we had more things with Melvin. Little Malvin, to
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: be honest, he was fantastic.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: He's the little brother and he's like a nerd but wonderful.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I mean that's how like word nerds aren't wonderful. He's
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: like a really sweet, like speaks wisdom nerd.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a smart little brother who adores his sister
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: beyond anything else, not surprised for anything. She comes out
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: to him first and he's like, yop, okay, you're an
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: animorph just like great.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Just a great thing.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: And then he gives her an emergency pack for her
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: to open when things are bad and it's perfect for her.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: But like, I love their relationships so much and how
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: much they love each other and how much they support
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: each other, and even him being like seven years younger.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I think he's like twelve or fourteen and she's like nineteen.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: That he is like the support system she needs, which
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: is phenomenal. So good.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's great. He was reading Anamorphs when you're first
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: introduced to him, and I love how he just accepts
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: It's like, Yep, that's who you are. It's like I'm
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: a big a two. Yeah. The story, it is letter.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I love it. It's so good. I did want to
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: speak to going back to that kind of like you're
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: not enough worry when it comes to to I think
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of things, but in this case, like being queer,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: but also like the whole feminist thing we've been talking about.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: When you don't know the terminology, here's a quote. You know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't know the words. No, I didn't know my
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: ginger pronouns. All the moments where I was made to
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: feel like an outsider in a group that was supposed
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: to have room for me added up and left me
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: feeling so much shame, burning hot cheeks, eyes swollen with tears.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: That were all the words I couldn't say. That's what
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: my shame looked like. Yeah, and I think, like going
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: back to so many advert conversations we had just like
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: any other group of people, there are biases everything in
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: the queer community, and yeah, if you're new to it,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: it can be really scary when people are like, have
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: you read this? Do you know this? Do you know
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: this term? What it is? And so when she's kind
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: of bombarded with all of these things she's never heard of,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: and then that can make you feel even more doubt, like, oh,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know about that. But as you said,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: when she goes to visit her aunt and cousin in Miami,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, yeah, I didn't know that was a
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: word for it.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: But yep, I love the relationship goes on. Your one
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: job is to just accept what a person feels comfortable
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: sharing about themselves. No one owes you info on their gender,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: body parts, or sexuality.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I liked that there was also discussions around on sexism.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: One of the opening scenes, I would say pretty much
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: is around that and around like she describes herself as
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: sort of a bigger brown queer woman and having shame
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: around like the clothes she wears or her body. But
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of times, like there's a pretty there's a
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: scene in the beginning where she's confronted by neighborhood dudes
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: who are just doing that horrible harassment do thing that
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: some tubes do, and she has a quote where she's like,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: you know, I felt so good in the morning when
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I put this on. I felt so cute, And now
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I feel gross and wrong and weird because it was
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: like a halter top that was showing off her breast
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: and like tight pants and all this. And she felt
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: really good about it, but then they came and her
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: asked her, and then she felt bad about it. And
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: so she does have a lot of things in here
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: about discussions of feeling of her weight, of of sweating
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: like a normal human person. But a lot of us
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: can relate to being told that's like not ladylike, oh no,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and having a lot of anxiety around that. And as
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: you mentioned, I just read an article about this, but
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: it's been around forever, but I just read an article
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: about how so many times when you see queer people
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: in the media, it is kind of the straight white
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: version of like the nice queer person who is in
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: a woman's case, she's thin, she's white, like, she's still
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: like traditionally beautiful to heterosexual people, which is a huge conversation.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things to impact there, but her
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: having anxiety around that and not fitting that when she's
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: coming out, and she did get some of these anxieties
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: from her family and I related to this quote, Nina,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: from now on, you must always wear bra. Your breast
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: will get bigger, like mind grandma's. You must protect them.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Trust me, Eventually you will need the support as well.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Men in public are even in the house, should never
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: be able to see the outline of your tatitas or
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: the poke of your nipples. Put your bra on the
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: second you wake up in the morning. Men can't handle
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: seeing those things. It makes them crazy. Remember, they're just
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: not as smart as we are. Mama, From now on,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: you must shower every day and always rodioda and imperfume.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I do not want my little girl to be stinky.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: You are too pretty for that.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of us had this talk
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: where it was all of a sudden, like you gotta
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: smell nice, and you gotta wear this, and you can't
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: wear this, and I was not allowed I had to
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: talk to my house, I was not allowed to go
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: out without a bra, and I hated bras. So it
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: was just really annoying. But then it kind of gets
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: in your head of like, oh, yeah, men can't control themselves,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: and when which I'm saying in terms of what people
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: are telling you and then when she Juliette is about
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to have her coming out situation with her family, she
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: describes the harassment incident she'd gone through with these dudes,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and some of the people at the table were like, Oh,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: it means he likes you, or oh it means yeah,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: that's just them whatever. So that was just something. When
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: I was reading, I was like, yeap, heard this one,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and then this one's kind of a big mess of
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: a theme. But I did pick up on some big
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: ideas about religion and belief systems. So obviously there was
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: kind of the white hippie aura thing that Harlowe was
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: doing that was very about like our aurs have to
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: sink and the moon and all of this, this kind
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: of stuff that was present throughout. So here's a quote.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: The only thing we can really do, juliet is to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: develop our our own sustainable theodiocees. You know, we need
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: to create our own understanding of divine presence in a
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: world full of chaos. My God is black, it's queer,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: it's a symphony of masculine and feminine. Is Audrey, Lord
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: and Leader Kinney. My God and my understanding of God
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: are centered on who I am as a person and
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: what I need to continue my connection to the divine,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Maxine explained, she took a long breath. It's everyone's job
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: to come up with a theodiocey, one that has room
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: for every inch of who they are and the person
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: they evolve into.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yes, that is Maxine, not Harlow. But that
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: was when they were talking about like belief systems.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Right, because she always has a Mester's and divinities and
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: so Harlow's world is about goddesses and auras, while Juliet
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: came from a pretty Catholic background, but she also believed
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: in God and really had a hard time and separating that.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that so many people in religion
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: because I know, like especially in the South, there's definitely
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of like of the gay community who profoundly
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: love their Christian community or their church community or their
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: worship community, and like they have a connection to it
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: on a different level. But like when of course, like
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: when you're being told this is against something, you are
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: against our beliefs, you know, they have a hard time,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: but they still don't believe that's what God is to
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: them or who God really is. And I think that's
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: a breakdown of like trying to figure out for yourself
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: right what your beliefs are.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: The spirituality is yes, and Juliette did have her it
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: despite her upbringing her doubts. Here's a quote. I was
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: suspicious of the Bible. It had never been particularly forthcoming
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: when it came to stories about women. Mary Magdalene wasn't
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: really a hooker, and you didn't force Adam to eat
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: that apple. What did painting women as untrustworthy or horrorsh
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: have to do with God's love? Anyway? Stories weren't even
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: about women directly. There were stories about men in which
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: women had side roles as the mother, or the second wife,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: or the daughter for sale. The fact that I grew
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: up in a religious household and had never heard of
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Sophia further proved to me that the people interpreting the
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Bible or misogynist I didn't care about anything a wise
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: woman had to say. Christianity wasn't budging an inch on
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: this quest of mine. So this is as we said.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: The new task that Harlowe gave to Juliette was tracking
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: down women from these scraps of papers. Sophia was one
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: of those women, and she honestly, great curious researcher just
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: kind of started looking into the history of the name
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: and found out it meant like wisdom and found this
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: biblical story that she had never heard, and honestly I
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: had heard so right.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: There's so many things like when I tell you researching
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: like actual theology, and then talking about like the sea
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: scrolls and all the you know, all of the things
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: and what came later, and then about the apocrypha, so
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like all that and the additional books
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: that were left out. You start questioning why things were
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: left out and who was being left out and why
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: the amount of information being taken away, and you're like,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: who we decided this, Oh, a bunch of men. Okay,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: that's interesting, and then you try to figure out finding
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: those pieces and going back to it because they try
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: to destroy so many things.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Because they didn't like people. Yep, they liked power, but
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: not the people. And going back to that, that's pretty related.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I did see a lot of themes of like gatekeeping
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: in this of gatekeeping of feminism or being queer or
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: whatever based in terminology, like as we've said earlier, what
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: you know, what you've read, what you all of that stuff.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: And as part of this, she does get that list,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: and she, as you mentioned, she starts learning more about
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Puerto Rico that she had never learned in her American schooling,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and she learns about colonization. And here's a quote about that,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: maybe America just swallowed all of us, including our histories,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: and spat out whatever it wanted us to remember in
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: the form of something flashy, cinematic and full of catchy songs,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: and the rest of us without that firsthand knowledge of
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: civil unrest and political acts of disobedience just inhaled what
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: they gave us. So yeah, like going back to what
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: you were saying with religion, it's a very similar. This
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: is what we'll put in here for you to learn.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: But otherwise, right when you start looking at the history
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: of Puerto Rico and what they're trying to do, and
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: then you start looking at the history of Hawaii and
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: what they've done, and like you kind of really question likeage.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, okay, hard transition dating theme of dating
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: in this here's a quote. I couldn't even with dudes lately.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: All they did was talk smack about how good they
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: laid down the pipe. Anytime I ignored them. I was
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: both a bitch and all of a sudden, too ugly
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: or too fat to get it anyway. Neighborhood dudes sure
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: knew how to slime and shame a girl. And one
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: swift move reason number five hundred and fifty one, Raging
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Flower was so necessary. Reading helped me gather myself, reminded
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: me that I had a right to be mad. It
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: felt like my body was both overexposed and an unsolved mystery.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: So this is after her encounter with the harassing dude
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: in the beginning, But I just thought that was a
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: great quote about Yeah, you're super hot until you don't
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: want to have sex with them, and then you're like
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: the ugliest ever exists, right every time?
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Every time? Didn't want you anyway?
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: And then why are you talking to me? I didn't
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: want this?
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Why are we here? I definitely didn't talk to you.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't definitely didn't come to you.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: So go away.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it goes on. Her heart felt far away
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: from mine, like they were beating in different time zones
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: or different dimensions love. I should have asked her for
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: her to fight for us and to shed some tears
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: over a summer apart. If I was going to spill
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: my truth to my family, then so should she. But
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't have those words, didn't even know I wanted
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: those things until after she was gone. All I wanted
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: was her in my arms all night. But the clanking
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: of dishes, the smell of Stelle coffee, and the absolute
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: hetero vibe of Westchester kept me so aware of how
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: unattainable that was. Where could our type of love grow? Anyway?
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So that was with Laney, her EXXS. So she
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: like loves and made this like mix CD for She
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: kept going a mixtape, but I think it was.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: A city.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: It was a CD, but like you call it a mixtape,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: like not the old throwbag, especially from our generation She's
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: worn nineteen eighty three. Yes, yes, we called it a mixtape.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I was confused. Okay, sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: But this was another area where Julia didn't feel like
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: she could speak up or she was questioning. Am I
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: being too much? Am I asking too much? Am I
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: being too needy? All of those things? Which reading it
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: and I'm someone who has those questions as well. I
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: was like, no, this is she would not respond to
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: your text. You can't respond to a text, a phone call, okay,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: but if you got.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Mad at her, it's like, just call me. One of
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: mergency was like, no, that's rude.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: That's rude.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Not good, she's toxice needed to go, and she did.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: And good for Juliet for being like, you know what,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I hope you have a happy life. I hope you
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: have a night like mine that I just had. But
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: we're good.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Discover yourself.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, there are also U conversations around polly dating and
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: what that looks like. There's the big breakup that happens
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: that we a lot of us I feel related to,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: and how miserable you feel and can't take a shower
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: and you don't want to eat. All that stuff. Also
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: family huge seem in this. I did want to shout
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: out all the nerd references, and now that I know,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Rivera writes re marvel of like, yep, I love it.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: But I do think one of the biggest themes that
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: kind of weaves through all of this is seeking advice
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: from other women. And one of the things that stood
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: out to me is when Juliette gets her period and
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: like stains the sheets at Harlow's house, she has like
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: the memory of her mom helping her with her period.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: And then what Harlow does is essentially like get in
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: the bathtub and relax, and here's some organic tampons and
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: here's some but you know not but I'm not saying
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: but it was like a difference. It was a stark difference.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't be of an incident in which I was
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: in Brooklyn and we were hanging out with a lot
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: of hippie ish people. They were they they went ups
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: for diving to get a chunk of their food because
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: they're like, you know, whole Foods throws out so many
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: things and it's so wasteful and all these things. And
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, yeah, cool, cool, cool. They had the
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: you know sign over the toilet if it's yellow leaded mellow,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: you know, like they literally that stuff. I was like, Wow,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: people actually write this, okay. And I was like, I
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: need I needed a tampon. And she brought me an
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: organic tampon and this is the first time I'd seen
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: one without an applicator, and I was like, oh no,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: what do I do with this? I was very very confused,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: and I kind of just sat there and stared at
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: it for a second. I'm like and this was right.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I was at the beginning of college, so around the
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: same timeframe as as Julia would be going through her thing,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, I don't I don't know what okay,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: And I tried to use it. I was not good
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: with it because it was not something like you have
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: to get used to, like how comfortable you are with
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: your body, like all these things, and like plastic applicators,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: even with those, I had to be like they have
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: to be silky and smooth. I couldn't even use the
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: paper ones at that point. This is a lot of detail,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: but I just remember that moment of like, yeah, but
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: I could only keep it in for a little bit
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: because I did not put it in far enough tampon
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: users you know, you know what I'm talking about, and
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: so I was like, yep, nope, that was a good
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: tried though. I just remember those moments of doing that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: as well as I loved No offense to anybody in Portland,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: we love you. I'm sure it's not like this at all,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: But her talking about how the UH transit smelled was
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: so different, because like everybody was all about like the
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: no deodorant and like white people having dreads and not
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: knowing how to really care for it, like all these
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: things and then all that smell and She's like, yeah,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: the Bronx subway system was much better, like coming from
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: one smell to a different smell. And I was like yeah,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: because when I went to this house with all of
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: the people that, I'm like, I've never hung out with
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: people like this, which I feel like I'm missing out,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: and I was really glad to meet them. They were
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: very kind and sweet people, but like that was a
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: whole new experience. I was like, this is a different smell.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: This is this body odor fresh, no baden, no body
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: odor is different, isn't new? And like I was like, Okay,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: this is a whole different world, like her code jumping
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: into that world. It made me quite like I was like,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I get it, and like that kind of
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: experience for her to be like, all right, what is happening?
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: I just want you to leave me alone, quit telling
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: me to love my period, and to like embrace this,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Like what is this? I guess I'm at least at
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: the same time, like she was like, but wow, the
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: way that you were like telling me thank you for
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: bleeding on my mattress, that's a new level, right.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Juliet was like I could just you have to like
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: tile and all. Harla was like, you don't need that.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: What we'll do, We're gonna fix it with the breeding
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: and for what it was worth in the book Julia,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: for her it worked. She had like I will say,
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: so something to like in a nice bath and being
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: catered for, Like that's lovely.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to again. It was just the
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: difference between like, oh, kind of telling the.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Crash course when you're from one world to another and
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: trying to like I eventually was able to use the
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: ones with that the applicators, FYI, it just took it.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Like the newness of it.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a whole thing.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of this thing was like for her
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: to get these newness and then like just jumping into
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: a different type like different way of doing things right, right.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: But I did enjoy, like going back to the theme
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: of like all these women she does have, as you mentioned,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: memories of her mom often or her aunts often, her cousin,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: having like these women in her life that you were
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: giving her advice, whether it's the best advice or not
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: in this case, but you know, having that and then
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: the research she was doing reflected that as well, like
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: she was looking at these women, she was through that
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: research learning about herself and in some way getting almost
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: advice or like having her world open up and having
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: questions that she hadn't previously asked. And one, as we've mentioned,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: I would say one of the biggest points of this
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: was her cousin Ava, who just had been doing this research,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: was immediately like, you should be wary of this person Harlow, like,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: let me give you these books and come to Miami.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: And then when when Juliette did, it was this huge
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: like asking questions and not being judged for it and
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: just sharing this information and having this beautiful experience where
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: where Juliette wasn't so much in her head anymore, she
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: was just like I can just be curious and she's
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: not gonna judge me, and I can learn these new
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: things and it was great.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: And again I think that's something important to be about
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: that different communities look different and that's okay, Like you
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: do learn so much from that from different areas, and
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: whether it relates to you one way or doesn't relate
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: to you that way, it doesn't mean it's wrong. And
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I think that's a bigger point in the book as well,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Like just because she felt like a stranger in one
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: specific community and then she felt more home in another
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't have anything to do with whether it was right
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: or wrong, Like that's something that's being done right or
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: being done wrong. Like it's this level of understanding who
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: you are and your identity, and like understanding that culture
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: does make a difference and makes a play into what
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: you need to hear, what you need to see, and
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: how you need to feel like a part of something.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Like that's that bigger conversation. Just because you're one thing
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you fit into all these things. And
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: I'm like, in general, just because she was gay doesn't
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: mean she fit into like all the communities, and it
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have to be that way, Like we are individual people.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: That's the level of intersectionality, that there are civil layers
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: to who you are as a person, and I think
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: that's something they remember. But also that she found everything beneficial.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: She learned so much about herself in those levels, and
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: I think that's something that's really really well presented.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, in this book. I do too, because also going
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: back to the confrontation she has at the end with Harlow,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: where she sort of accepts what's happened. She kind of
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: she finds her voice, and she says something along the
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: lines of like, you know, your book was so important
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: to me, but this was about me, Like I found
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: my voice. That was just one tiny part of it.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: And now I've found other people and now I'm going
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: to write this story and I'm going to be a voice.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: And like, right, I think that was really well said.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's wonderful because it opened a door, like
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: it literally opened her world to something and it was
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: a portal, but it wasn't the end all, like it's
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: it will be significant for her always, but it's not
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: the impact and the Bible for her or like the
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: instruction book book for her that as it was at
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: the beginning, like she's developing herself and creating her own Yeah.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and like having that realization and be like okay,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: that was like one part and now yeah, it's all
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: of this. And speaking of I did think there was
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: a powerful theme of transformation and rebirth in this. When
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: she goes Ava takes Juliette to a queer party for
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: people of color, she gets a haircut and it's just
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: like a really empowering experience for her because I guess
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm paraphrasing here, but she was like a queer haircut.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: She felt like it was like a queer haircut, and
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: she really liked it, and everybody was complimentary of it,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: like everybody was like, Wow, this looks amazing. And also
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: transformation just on personal levels, like her family kind of
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: like the people who weren't accepting her mother mainly kind
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: of making this pledge to learn because they were like,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: we love you whatever happens, but we want to learn.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: And Juliette working to learn throughout all of this, and
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: they have this conversation, her and her mom have this
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: conversation about like, what are you gonna do now after
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: the internship and her mom brings up this conversation they
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: had a while back, and here's a quote from that.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: You said reading would make me brilliant, but writing would
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: make me infinite, which is a great quote. And here
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: is another quote. All the women in my life were
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: telling me the same thing. My story, my truth, my life,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: my voice. All of that had to be protected and
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: put into the world by me. No one else, no
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: one could take that from me. I had to let
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: go of my fear. I didn't know what I was
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: afraid of. I wondered if I'd ever speak my truth
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: as she did she did, and that it was also
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: very radical power of self love at the end of
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: like nope, I'm worthy of telling my story and of
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: being angry and of having this voice. It was really Yeah,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I really loved it. It's great.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: It was very good, And like I said, I think
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: it hit on so many different levels with her story,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: whether it's just about finding our identity going out in
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: the world from her like small corner to like what
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: the bigger world looks like seeing family connecting and then
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: connecting on a different level that you didn't realize that
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: you could have with your family and people around you.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like having that level and yourself once again,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: like she is finding new levels of herself. I love
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: that it grew from like Okay, I'm a feminist, Okay,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I'm a lesbian, Okay, I'm an intersectional like lesbian, Okay,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I'm a writer, intersexual lesbian, like all these levels where
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: she really get to like explore herself, explore her loves,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: explore her identities. Yeah, I think it's also beautiful that
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: she does talk about different levels of love. She talks
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: about loving Harlowe, she talks about loving Kira, she talks
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: about loving Laney, she talks about loving her mom. Like
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: these different levels of love that she felt and not
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: want to deny any of those, but at the same
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: time like trying to deal with what that looks like
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: for her and what those relationships were for her, and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: appreciating that type of love, Like I really genuinely love
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: all of that level that she had to those relationships.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too, because it takes a lot of
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: work to recognize what a love did and then kind
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: of compartmentalize like, Okay, it was this important to me,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: but I can, I can move on from it, but
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: also remember it. So Yeah, definitely check it out if
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: you haven't already. As always, if you have any suggestions
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: for this segment, please let us know. You can email
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: us at Stephania Momsteff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told you girls
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. We have a t public store and we
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: have a book you can get wherever you get your books.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina or executive
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: brucer Maya and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is
• 1:03:33
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