Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 30, Season 2: The Pain of the Anxious Preoccupied

Transcript

Episode 30, Season 2: The Pain of the Anxious Preoccupied · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner, founder,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and CEO of the love Doc relationship coaching services. You
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: can find her at the lovedoc dot com or on
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: any of her social media handles at doctor Sarah Hensley. Hello, Hello, Hi,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: how are you?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I am doing pretty well. I've had a lot of
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: car drama. Well you have. You always got the most
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: car drama I have had in a really long time.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: So I got a speeding ticket the other day in
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a construction zone coming out of my daughter's school. That's
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: the worst. I didn't realize that it was. I mean,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I'm just in my head and at least forty five
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: thinking about a lot. You got about a lot, got
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a speeding ticket. You s have to go to traffic school.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: It's always the worst. Then a deer runs into my car.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I think I told the audience about that. It literally
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: ran into my car. So sweet, Evangeline. My Caddy has
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: been out in the shop and it's it takes a
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: long time to work.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Made a car line relationship advice a little bit harder to.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Car line relationship advice is like nonexistent right now, because
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I've had a couple different rental cars. Then I bought
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: my daughter a Yukon and that it drove perfectly fine
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: until it got cold, and then it started hardshipting into
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: first which is usually just like a low fluid problem.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Of course, we took it to the dealership, and the
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: dealership tried to like gouge us in this the run
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: around astronomical way. So we were like, Okay, we're going
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: to take it to a small mechanic. So it's there
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: right now, getting a tune up because Kentucky lowered the
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: driving age to toddler years. Yeah, it's wild. It's fifteen.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Well that's how it was when we got our That's
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: how it was when we got our license, which you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: were in Ohio, right, yes, so in Kentucky back you know, gosh,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not how long ago was that you got your
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: permanent fifteen. You drove for a year and then got
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: your driver's license at sixty, So that's what they've done.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: He's way too young. I know. Gabby is getting ready
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: to turn fifteen, and I'm like, crap, she's not baby,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: she's not learning in my escalade, and she's not learning
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: in my husband's truck that's relatively new. We're not doing that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm not putting like a barely fifteen year old.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: But she's still in an expensive car. But she still
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: needs a tank, right, because I'm not sending her out
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: into the world and a little car that can crumple.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Especially after I hit the deer, I was just like,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: no way, I was because I was gonna get her
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: like a small crossover suv of some sort. Nope, we
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: went with the Yukon. It has some starter gents and
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: everything in it, so it's she bangs it up, she
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: bangs it up, but it's it's an older car. It's
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: an older use.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: She drives anything like you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: She definitely the worst driver, and I it's so bad guy, scary,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: so scary. I know it's my mom. It's not a
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: good driver. And I love you so much.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And I'm not a great driver either, but I'm definitely
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: when I'm in the car with you, have you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: like my peripheral vision on, like you know, and I'm
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: like got my foot on the break over here in
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: the passenger stay but.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: The pretend break. Yeah, so anyway, so then I have
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: to end up. I requested an suv because we have
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: six people in our family, so we can't go anywhere
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: as a family, and a lot of times we take
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: my mom my mom's going through chemotherapy again, and so
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: chair competitions, wrestling tournaments, we just my mom comes. So
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: there's seven of us. We can't fit seven people anywhere,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: so how to get one of those? Eventually it's going
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to be like those big travels sixteen passenger vans. No,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: we're we're not doing any more children, thank goodness. Not
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: that we don't love our children, we do, but for
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: is it's just enough. It's just enough. And so we're
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: good with the mini van rental. But I'm not a
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: fan of driving the minivan. It's low to the ground. Yeah,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: and I'm being high up. I liked it.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I kind of like the minivan. I was like in
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: my soccer mom, may do you? Yeah?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to drive a minivan. You
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: don't have anybody to drive in the mini You want
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: to drive like a poor she does. She's talking to
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: me the other day, like I'm getting She's like, oh,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: we want land, we want this. But hold on a second.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: There's this really cute poor I'm like, you cannot buy
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: a liability like that rain.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: That's like the dream car. That's like the ultimate dream.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: That's a retired Yeah, I call it my Zipity Doo
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: doll car. One day I'll have my Zibity Doo doll car.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: It might not be, you know, in the next five years,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: but one day, one day. But anyway, So today we
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: want to talk about you know, we have done the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: pain of the dismissive avoidant. We've done the pain of
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the fearful avoidance. So today we want to talk about
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: the pain of the anxious preoccupied.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, which used to be the most common insecure attachment style,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: but new data has come out and shown a twelve
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: percent rise in dismissive avoidance in the last decade, which
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: is now the most common attachment style. And why do
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: you think that is? Because I think Gen X or
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: the latchkey kids that were extremely neglected and then they
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: pass that on to the older gen zs. So we're
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: serving adults here, and you know, we're looking at the
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: gen Z general. The older gen zs are more dismissive
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: avoidant because they were raised by very dismissive avoidant parents
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: and they became dismissive avoidant because they were the latchkey kids.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: So just it is generational trauma. But then the younger millennials,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the pendulum swung so far the other direction. We went
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: from all boundaries. You respect me because I'm the parent.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: What I say goes no matter what. You have no feelings,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: it does not matter. I have no empathy for you.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Don't cry or I'll give you something to cry about.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Figure it out. Get out of my face. That generation
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: to pendulum swing. Everybody gets a trophy. Everybody is special.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: We can't let our kids sit in any amount of discomfort.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So it was all empathy, no boundaries, which has made
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: kids incredibly anxious. So I think when Gen Alpha, which
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: is my youngest daughter's generation, when they become adults, we're
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: going to see a rise and the anxious preoccupied again.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: So interesting. So it's like this curve, like this valley
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: mountain kind of.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Curve, and then all the people with trauma and dysfunction,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: they're going to probably turn out FA most of the time,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: which is higher than ever. I feel like, oh gosh, yeah, well,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: it's the most common attachment style I see in my
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: practice is the fearful avoidant because they have the most pain.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: As we've talked about before, the anxious preoccupied has a
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: lot of pain, but they don't like to admit that
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: they have pain. Yeah, they don't like to admit that
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: they have needs they are the biggest portion of their
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: pain is that they are so focused on how to
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: get love that they do not question nearly enough if
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: the love that they are receiving is adequate for them. Yeah,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I see.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I'm so intrigued by the ap because JP is definitely
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: he falls in that category. And you know, watching knowing
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: what you know, like well, knowing what I know now
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: about attachment and being around you as long as I have,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: it's like you can't unsee you.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Cannot you can't unsee it. It's like once you see it,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: you can't understand it. It's like being in the matrix,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: right and then stepping outside of the matrix.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: It is, and so it's difficult. It's really difficult to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: watch it in your how it unfolds in your children.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're still working on my youngest's attachment too. She's
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: fearful slash dismissive, call it f a dash V in
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: children is like the acronym but she's coming around. She's
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: coming around. And it was interesting the other day, you know,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: it was loved Ones lunch at school, so Donald and
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I came and sat with her. She was just really quiet,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: like the whole time, just didn't look like she wanted
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: us to be there. And we were like, baby, is
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: everything okay? You know, you seem quiet. I'm fine, I'm fine.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And then you know, when she got in the car
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: pick up, I said, baby, we noticed that you just
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: weren't yourself. And she's like, well, how did you know?
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, because we were around you and we
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: know when you're okay and when you're not. So I'm
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: not going to force you to talk to me, but
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: if there's anything that's bothering you or on your heart,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: just know that I'm here. She got real quiet, and
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: then she said, I got really embarrassed at school in
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: the morning before lunch, and she just spilled her guts.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And so this is more like my more avoidant child
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: when it comes to emotions. So the FA again, they
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: can really want to be around you a lot, but
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: then also shut down when it comes to actually talking
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: about emotions. So I was like, oh, what happened? Maybe,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: and you know, she told me this kid had said
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that she liked the boy in her class and they
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: were all singing it. Alexi likes so and so, you know,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: and of course at nine it's the humiliation is big
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: for even little things like that. And then once she
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: told me, her demeanor completely changed right back to this happy,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: loving you know. And of course I praise or thank
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: you so much for trusting me with that. I'm so
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: sorry that happened to you. And I can see why
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: you would feel embarrassed. And you know, it isn't doesn't
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: feel fair when people, you know, treat us that way,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: and you know, then we came up with, well, what's
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: a boundary? You know, what can you say to people,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: you know, if they're bullying you or if they're picking
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: on you and you don't like it. And after we did,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: the empathy problem solved. And then she was just like
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: this completely different person. And what I know about kids
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: that have attachment insecurities and there's just no way my
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: kids weren't going to get out that any Oh yeah,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: there's no way that they could, especially my oldest. But
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, Lexi's nervous system remembers we divorced when she
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: was sixteen months. But the majority of the chaos that
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: was like super super bad, like when they're in the womb. Oh,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I was so stressed during her pregnancy. I was so stress.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, me too. But with both of my
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: pregnancies one I had terrible health anxiety too. I just
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: I was abusive relationship. Yeah, my marriage was awful. And
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: so you know, they come out that shapes their nervous system,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: their exposure to cortisol, sure, exposure to our rapid heartbeat,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: the exposure to adrenaline in pregnancy. And even if they
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: can't consciously remember, Lexi has no memory of her dad,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: almost like very faint, a little bit of what he
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: was like, what he looked like. Probably some of that's
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: from pictures. He passed when she was three, so it's
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: very faint. But all of the screaming, the yelling, the
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: cops coming, I don't know how many times, the violence,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the stalking, the locking me in rooms, I mean, the
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: things that she witnessed when she didn't even have real
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: good language. Yet her nervous system remembers. It's imprinted. And
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: so even though the majority of her memories are these
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: really happy, loving, sort of stable memories, especially with Donald
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: and him being a father figure and just having a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: happy and peaceful home. Her nervous system is still imprinted
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: that way, and so we've done a lot of work
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: and just what I know about changing your attachment style
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: and how the nervous system functions in somebody who's more avoidant.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: And we will get to the ape guys, I promised,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: but I just wanted to go on this tangent. Once
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: they do reveal and they're vulnerable and it regulates them,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: and you see the regulation happen after the vulnerability. It
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: is such a good sign that their attachment is shifting.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So I almost had this like in tears moment of
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: just like, oh my gosh, what doing is working? Like
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: it's working, Like she's showing progress, she's showing signs that
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: it's turning around. I know, we don't want.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: To cry every time you tear up. I tear up,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I know, but I mean.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: We I've done PC with her. I've done just about
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: every intervention I can think of with both of my kids,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: and my oldest has had a lot of therapy, and
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I might even put my youngest in therapy just to
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: make sure that we're doing everything that we can, because
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: the only goal I have as a mother is to
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: raise secure children.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so important. I think, like I tear
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: up watching you because again, you know, I'm in my
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: empty nest era, and it's there's so much emotions tied
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: to that because you look back on, you know, the
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: life cycle of your parenting between you know, zero and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: eighteen years, and gosh, I think if I'd known the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: stuff that I know now, Yeah, how differently I could
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: have done things even in the midst of the dysfunction
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: of JP's dad and mine relationship. You know, just if
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I just had even a tiny bit of the knowledge
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: that I have now. I mean, maybe he still would have,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: of course, ended up with some insecure attachment just based
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: on his dad mind's relationship. But you know, seeing the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: anxiety that JP has around his relationship, and I want
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to be really clear, I'm referencing JP here because I
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: love him and he's my son. I'm not talking negatively
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: about him. I'm not even talking negatively about his relationship
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: with his girlfriend. I love his girlfriend deeply.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: He treats her like a queen.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. He waits on her hand and foot,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: He loves her deeply. But there's and it's not her fault.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: It's not her fault. It's jp being young and not
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: recognizing the patterns.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he and you know, he's going to have
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: to do the work on his own and he's not
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: going to be really receptive to it at this point
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: life and well, aps aren't. No, aps are not receptive.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: That's what's interesting. So everybody thinks that the APT. First
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: of all, everybody thinks that their AP, and the majority
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: of people that come in my practice that I see
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: are not AP. They're actually fearful avoidant. They just tend
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: to choose partners that keep them on the anxious side
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: of the spectrum. So fas always respond in opposition to partners.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So if an FA chooses a dismissive avoidant, they will
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: be very anxious. So I have a lot of fas
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: long term married to das. They think they're anxious preoccupied
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: because they very rarely go into their avoidance side. Their
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: avoidance side is very small in that relationship. But APS
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: don't have an avoidance side. So we even see the
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: AP and the DA have what's called trauma overlay, which
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: maybe they had an exposure to a trauma usually not
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: complex trauma. There's usually something that was like more of
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: a shock trauma or you know, like they lost an
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: ant or they lost you know, some kind of peripheral
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: trauma that is not as big as like the major
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: dysfunction that we see in the FA, but it gives
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: them a little bit of a betrayal wound and a
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: little bit more of a temper. But generally, the way
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: that we can only classify FA is if we see
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the avoidance side and the anxious side, and the AP
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: just does not have the avoidance side. They are like
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: the energizer bunny that just keeps reaching and reaching and
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: reaching connection.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Even though I haven't seen the avoidance side, I really do,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Look, he's so young, so the only thing I can
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: think of is like you were. Probably you've always been
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: a very attuned mother. I've watched you parent, I've watched
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: you parents since JP was in middle school, like early
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: middle school, and You've always been a very involved, loving,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: caring mother. And it does buffer, you know, from the
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: insecure attachment. You actually not being with your ex was
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: as early as you cut it off. It was protective. Yeah, sure,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: it was protective, and so JP could be AP because
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: he had just the inconsistency where you were attuned and
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: your ex was not attuned. Right, So there's the intermittent reinforcement.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I had a lot more time, especially with my oldest,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: where I was just chaotic and dysfunctional because I was
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: trying to survive the most hellish nightmare relationship you could
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: draw up. And I didn't have capacity and have capacity.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I was just trying to survive the day. So I
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: don't know. But most people think that they're AP, they're
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: really FA. But I can tell I can really see
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: a true AP like miles away.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: So what are like the biggest differences.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go through that. So aps generally report good childhood,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: had a good childhood. I knew I was loved most
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: of the time. Not all the time, but most of
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: the time. They report a nuclear family, mom and dad
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: are still married, still love each other. They report I
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: got love, affection, hugs, kisses, I love yous, So affection
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: and attention was present. And so I have to dig
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit more in the interview with them of
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: how consistent did you feel that was? And then always
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: I see this and it's hard to use the word always,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: but really this is the defining thing about the attachment style,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: and we almost have to see it, which is inconsistent reinforcement.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So there's almost always some point in childhood where things
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: started to become inconsistent. I see things like, well, you know,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: we had a really happy family until my dad lost
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: his job when I was like eight years old, and
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: then my dad went into a depression. And then you know,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: my dad just stopped kind of coming around and kind
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: of being checked in. So there's where things start to
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: become inconsistent. Dad was really consistent. Dad was really attuned,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: so was mom. Then dad lost his job, went into depression.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden, that caregiver drops off and is
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: less consistent than they were before. Grandma gets sick and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: moves in, and now parents are caregiver to a grandma,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: and so attention is now split. What was now showered
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: upon the child is split between children and grandma. It
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: could be my parents had a couple kids after I
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: was already sort of like I was like eight nine,
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: and then boom, boom, we had my parents had two
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: more kids, you know, right in a row, and then
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden just left. I'm just kind of
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: left and I'm now a little bit parentified. Right, there's
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: always this sort of defining event where the attention and
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: affection and attunement started to become.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Inconsistent, super super traumatic.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: But it's not that traumatic. It's just inconsistent enough where
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: it imprints the child with oh wow, being loved also
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: means sometimes you could be left in the dust or abandonment,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and that's where the abandonment wound is born, because when
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: a two minut is consistent and you start to trust it,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: then it's taken away. It feels like an abandonment, whereas
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: with the FA the dysfunction is there from the jump,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: and so the trust wound is born. Like your baby
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: toddler years, there's dysfunction in the household.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And I know that you've probably disgusted or described it before,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: but it's always worth describing again the key differences between
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: that abandonment wound and the betrayal wound.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, so the abandonment wound is give me whatever you got,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: just don't leave. So the ap will literally stay in
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: the worst relationship humanly possible and continue to fight for it.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: And as long as they get some reassurance that they're
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: not going to be abandoned. They still put their needs
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: on the back burner. They're very boundaryless people, and they're
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: not very defiant. They're not DEFINEDTFA is going to be
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: super defined. They may stay longer than they should, but
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: they're going to be defiant. Yeah, they're going to they're
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: going to let you know how they feel and most
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: of the time. Yeah, at some point, and it's going
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to be in a stronger fight response. No, the AP
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: just is in constant flight mode, which is sympathetic activity
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: where they are feeling panic, feeling concern, feeling worried, feeling
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: hyper attuned to cues of abandonment. So the FA is
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: hypervigilant to all cues, whereas the AP's hypervigilance is narrowed
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: towards cues of abandonment. Yeah, he is, honey, I mean
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: just from just from an observation. But again, you never know,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: because this is his first real relationship.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And he's had severe trauma. I mean, he saw some
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: terrible things go down between his dead and me. You know,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: so there was some you know, not to mention the
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: whole court custody thing that, I mean, he was only three,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: but still the nervous systems remember.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, it's just you. You cut it
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: off with him though, so much earlier than I did
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: with my I did, Yeah he did.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Wait, I did twelve years. Oh, it seems like a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: really long time. We were together for twelve years.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but when did you have JP?
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I had JP, let's see two thousand and six, and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: then it was a roller coaster from then on. I mean,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: in total, we were together for twelve years, on and off,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: on and off. Yeah, I mean I could never I can't.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think there was maybe other than before JP
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was born, we had two years of consistent like, okay,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: we are a couple. After that there was like a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: year and a half.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe, so I think that's probably what saved him.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then i'm you know, that's when you know that.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: You know, being AP is quote unquote better than being FA.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: But in some cases, okay, maybe a little bit, because
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: the FA has the most pain.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: But they're also the most emotionally like intelligent. Yeah. Yeah,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I mean I feel like they recognize.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, APS struggle to recognize their anxiety. They struggle to
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: recognize it, they struggle to take believe it or not.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have AP's They're like, I'm so open.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I'm so open. They're open for hearing how they can
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: get their partner to love them more. That's what they're
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: open to. They're not open to. You have to learn
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: to be alone. You have to step back. You have
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: to stop chasing. You have to learn how to get
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: your own needs. You have to learn to set boundaries.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I had the most ap client one time, and again, guys,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I don't give anybody specific information out I have had
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: to have seen this pattern a lot of times. I
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: so one client in particular comes into my brain, but
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I've seen versions of this over and over again. It
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: did not matter how I framed it, how I gently
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I said it, how much clarity I used in explaining it.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: She would come back with all of the reasons why
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: her anxiety and her anxious behaviors were warranted in the situation.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And I see that a lot. I s them coming
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: back with. But it's like, if I pull back from
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: my anxiety and I stop chasing, then I'm abandoning them
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and you're not. You're not. They have a huge needs bucket.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: This is where the love language theory really breaks down.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: They have all the love languages they want them all
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: view them all as valuable. So reassurance can come in
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: acts of service, it can come in gift giving, it
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: can come in you know, words of affirmation.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Is that why they also try to give all the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: love language? Yes?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Because again, I'm sorry, guys. I know that I've gotten
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: some feedback that I talk shit about my son.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking shit about my son. He's my son.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I'm allowed to talk about it. And my brain just
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: goes to him when we talk about the AP because
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: it's so relevant and I see this dynamic with him
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and his girlfriend so prevalent, Like it's so prevalent, and
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: it's so hard to ignore that.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Can we just take like a tiny side journey really
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: quick about how sick I am of just everybody judging everything, Like, yes, okay,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: side note, side story. It is freaking exhaust And maybe
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: it's because you know, millions of people see my face
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: every day and it's or hear my voice every day,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: and so I'm out there for public scrutiny. I've accepted
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: that at this point, But the other day I made
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: a video. I do not like mel Robin's content. Meil
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Robins seems like a lovely woman. She's good at her job.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: She deserves the praise and respect that she gets because
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: she's good at her job. But my video was like
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I don't like her content because I am a very
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: deep you know, root out the pain, get to the root, cause,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: really expose the deep down stuff. And she's more of
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: like catchy slogans and tiny lift ups and affirm just
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: real pop psychology that has not like an ounce of
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: depth in my opinion, So.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe feel about that that I didn't see that. Oh
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: my god, oh people, Oh no, people got okay.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Twenty five thousand Instagram comment, Oh goodness, why did I
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: miss this? Yeah? Oh I took it down. This was
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: in like two hours. Okay, wow. And it was all like,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: how dare you like run somebody else into the ground
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: and like say, like to put somebody down. There was
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: not one sentence in that video that I was putting
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: her down. I didn't say she was bad at her job.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't say she was a dumb person. I didn't
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: say anything. I said her type of content isn't isn't
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: aligned with me as a person.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Just kind of compare mill to like Oprah, right, Like
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: she's bringing in people like she brings in experts that
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: that maybe go deeper, but Mail herself isn't going as deep,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: But I mean some people, that's that's for them. Yeah,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: that's all that they want. Yeah, yeah, and so and
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: that's okay. Yeah, And I even said that in the video.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: It's okay that that works for some people. Me in particular,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: it's like small talk, like just just shoot me in
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: the face. I don't want to. I just I shouldn't
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: say that. I rebuke that. In Jesus name, I don't
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: shoot me in the face. Okay, rebuke that. But literally,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I just can't stand small talk. And it reminds me
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: of small talk. And so I'm so tired. So I
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: took it down and I put another video up saying okay,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I take the feedback, you know, and I
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: take it with grace, and I you know, I won't
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: say the name of the person. But I don't like
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: shallow pop psychology. It's no different than me saying I
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: don't like this band, yeah exactly. How is that different
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: than saying, you know what, I don't like Metallica because
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I don't like heavy metal music. Why is that different?
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: That's not me saying Metallica is a terrible band, they
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: have no talent.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: It's because you're in the space. It's because you're in
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the space the same.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So it does get sometimes. I mean, the positive reviews
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: definitely overwhelm the negative ones by far, but it is
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: frustrating when it's just like everybody has an opinion over
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: the tiniest little.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Thing, yet you're not allowed to have one, but I'm
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: not allowed to have one.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: That's why I think we're going to start another podcast
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: maybe where it's just the raw version of us and
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: we get to just tell all of our opinions.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, we want to look forward to that anyway.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: In fact, maybe yeah. And this is a big part
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: of the apiece problem is that they're not authentic. They're chameleons,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: so that what I just said is relevant to the
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: ap because they are terrified to put their vulnerable, authentic
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: selves out there. They will definitely conform to what they
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: believe their partner wants them to be. We know aps
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: in real life. We have friends that are aps. They're chameleons.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: They they will take on whatever shade, tone, activity interest
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: their partner has.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I can usually spot an APE simply by their body language.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Very anxious, hold a lot of anxiety in their body,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: very tense, very tense.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: The APS that I know when you hug them, they're
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: like you can, yeah, you can feel the tension.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It's because they're in constant flight mode, which means holding
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: in withholding, so energy and motion, emotion is being stuck
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: right on the surface too, because sympathetic activity is one
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: step down from or one step up from safety. So
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: it's not like being frozen. It's like you can feel
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: the energy just pulsating, but they're not revealing. And so
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the AP's pain is so much around one. I can't
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: be my authentic self. I can't speak up for my needs.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I can't say that this hurts me because I don't
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: want to start a conflict. Interestingly enough, the AP and
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: the DA both hate conflict, and when an AP gets
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: with the DA, they can go years without having a conflict.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: And this was a really relevant topic a couple of
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: days ago when Travis Kelcey came out and said, Taylor
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: and I never argue, Taylor Swift and him, they never argue,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: And so interestingly the Today Show contacted me. Proud moment
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: really stepping up in the world. It was such an
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: od to give an interview to the Today Show, and
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I said, well, here's what I hope is happening. I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: hope that they're just really both secure people who you know,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: it's hard to find a secure person, I'm sure in
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Hollywood and in the in any world of fame. Yeah,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: there's massive amounts of people that have.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Especially famous when they were younger.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. But if you look at Travis's family and
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Taylor's families, super close, super supportive, super always there, always
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: cheering them on, you know, and so the thing that
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: they do have in common is very close knit, supportive families.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: So it could be. And this is what I hope
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: it is that there are two securely attached folks that
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: just finally found each other. Because we know, secures attract
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and make it work with other secures, and insecures attract
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: and usually do not make it work with other insecures
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: and secures and insecures just don't stay together. So what
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: if all of her relationship history, she's just been the
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: secure person, and she's been dealing with these fas and
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: das and narcissists and just going through them, and that's
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: why she never sort of found her love until she
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: comes across Travis, who also has this loving family. It
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: did happen to us, and we had to do the work.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: But I'm just wondering if the definition of argue was
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: really what Travis was talking about. That they don't get
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: dysregulated and yell at each other. Maybe is what he
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: was trying to say. So they have conflict, they have disagreements.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Any couple not having any conflict, the APDA they all
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: every time I see an APDA couple in my practice,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: they'll say, we haven't had a fight in ten years,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: but now we just But they also have no intimacy,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: no intimacy, and the ap is dying on the inside.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: And they finally got brave enough to say, hey, can
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: maybe we need some help? Yeah, and they've sort of
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: lost their I mean I'm talking sometimes ten years, they're like,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: we haven't had a fight years. Because what ends up
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: happening is the ap starts to bring it up, the
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: DA starts to get defensive or starts to pull away,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: they immediately backpedal. They're too afraid. They backtrack. And in
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: the ap friends that I have in real life, I've
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: seen this live. I've seen it in front of my face.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Same me too, and we share the same friends.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah too, in particular that I'm thinking of.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And they just backpedal and they'll just do anything
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: they can to save I'm sorry. You're right they fawn.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Fawn is to drop your boundaries, apologize, fall on the sword, give.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: In, and it's in all relationships.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: It's in it for the ap. It is very much more,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: i would say, than the other two attachment styles. Their
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: attachment style shows up more in friendships than the other
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: attachment styles.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Shape even does it with me. He's just immediately just
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: wants to be sorry. And we've had this discussion, you
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: know where I've openly said do you know what you're
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: sorry for?
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: And they don't. No, they haven't had time to process it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: All their processing is acute. That's mad at them or
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: going to abandon them. Because if you're mad at me,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: that means you could abandon me. If you, you know,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: are taking space, that means you're going to abandon me.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: If you get quiet, you're abandoning me.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: And they feel so responsible for other's emotions a million person.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: They feel like they literally place other people's emotions inside
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: of their passion. Yes, you are not responsible for other
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: people's emotions, but you are responsible for the environment that
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: you create for someone. So you have to look within
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: yourself and say, what environment am I creating? Am I
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: creating one of empathy? Am I creating one of reciprocity?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Am I creating one of vulnerability? Am I creating one
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: where I am generous towards my partner? Am I appreciative?
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Am I validating? You're not responsible for their emotions. You
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: could set a boundary and say that doesn't work for me.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I need something else, and it's a deal breaker, and
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: so I can't control you. But as long as you
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: choose to do a I'm going to do b over
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: here in my boundary space and I'm going to remove
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: my access until you make a decision about if you
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: can meet this need for me or stop this hurtful behavior.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: But you can't control how they will respond to that,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean the boundary is wrong. Aps think
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: their boundaries are wrong no matter what. If someone has
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: a negative reaction, they immediately think they've made the wrong move,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: and so that's when they start fawning and backtracking and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: sort of just saying you're right, I'm sorry, I shouldn't
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: have brought that up. And anxious face can do this too,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: it's just more rare. Usually they will have gotten more
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: upset than the AP. World. AP often sort of goes
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: into flight and then a little bit of freeze and
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: then back into flight. And when they're in flight mode,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: they are vigorously ruminating on how they can get their
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: partner to come back and to show them attention and affection.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: So Aps are also not feeling their feelings. They're stuck
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: in their head ruminating or intellectualizing their emotional experience.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Which explains why they would be so tight in their body.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, because the constant fighter, the flight energy is there
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: and it has nowhere to go because they're not expressing themselves,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: and so aps can build up massive amounts of resentment,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: although they're very unlikely to admit it, very unlikely.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, it makes me feel so much pain for the
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: AP because they're precious people.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: They're out of all the attachment styles, they come off
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: the most warm, the most kind, the most accommodating, because
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: of course they would. That is their blueprint. I have
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: to be what other people want me to be. They're
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: the ultimate people pleaser, and oftentimes they have perfectionistic qualities,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: and I am a recovering people pleaser with perfect perfectionistic qualities.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: And it's miserable and it's painful and one of the
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: most healing things that I think I went through. Gosh,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: there's so many. I don't know if I can say
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: one of the most but is to be able to
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: make a mistake and be okay with it, and an
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: AP if they make a mistake, it just ruins them.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I think I have so much shame.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I just feel so much pain when
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: we talk about the AP because it because it directly
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: correlates with my child. And I don't think there's anything
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: more painful than when you think about.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Your everybody's saying, she's talking about her kid. Our job
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: is to be open of my child, transparent, and the
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: majority of people listening, y'all have insecure attachment styles, so
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: we're not judging. We were noticing, and we're feeling, and
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: we're observing, and we're talking about our past mistakes so
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: you don't make them right And listen. Her son's a
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: heck of a kid. He's such a great kid.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: He's an amazing kids enlisted in the US Army National
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Guard I'm so proud.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Of what a brave, amazing, selfless thing to do. And
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: he is going to thrive, and he's going to be
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: an officer and he's going to be a bad ass.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: And so just because you're an AP doesn't mean you
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: have some person. Every insecure attachment and very insecure attachment
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: has superpowers. And that's not to say that JP won't
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: recognize his attachment style and be willing to do work
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: around it. He's just eighteen year old. Nineteen year old.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: They're not going to listen to you. But I'm willing
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: and open to talk about my children's insecure attachments because
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: we're a work in progress. Because I want people out
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: there to know that you can have a child with
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: an insecure style and it can still turn around. If
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: your adult style can turn around, your children's style can
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: turn around. So if you don't like our vulnerability, then
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: that's okay. You don't have to listen to it.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the review something like that. I was like,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I was too invested in my son's life and I
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: was like a helicopter mom, which I've never been accused
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: of before. You're not, I am definitely I would never
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I would describe myself as a lot of things when
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: it comes to parenting, you know, and he is my
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: only one, so of course I'm very vested, but I
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: would never call myself like a helicopterus.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: People just don't know you. They take a clip, and
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: same thing with me on social media. They'll take a
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: clip and they'll be like, this is who you are.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And again it's all of the talking heads on the internet.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: People aren't with you in your day to day life.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: They don't know your motherhood. And so it's okay. We
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: made the decision. And I've talked to my children about this,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: you know, I said, you know, my mission is to
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: help people learn to love, help people learn to be
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: better parents, help them learn how to respond to their kids.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: And I sat my girls down and I said, is
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it okay if I talk about you and if you
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: say no, I won't do it. And they said, yes, Mom,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: we want you to help people. You know, we know
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: that our story matters and we want people to have hope.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: We are behind what you're doing. Even my youngest child,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: you know, I sat and really sat down with her
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: and said, you know, here's what mommy does. And you know,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: if you don't want me to mention you. I never will.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: But if I ever do mention you, my goal would
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: be to help other people, and if you feel okay
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: with that, then I will. I will never give like
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: super personal details. I would always respect your privacy and
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: you know, important details of your life, but in generalities
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: around attachment and healing, and of course my fourteen year
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: old is like super on board. She wants to be
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: on the podcast. She's She's like, bring me out. I'm
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: going to talk to people. I want to tell people
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: my story. Oh, we should bring Gabby on. I know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I just, I just I'm not sure I want to
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: put her when she's eighteen, Yes, because I just want
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: to protect her heart from backlash and.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Feedback, which hopefully no one would be that mean to
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: like back, but you never know. People are no, don't
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: put it past, don't put it. I was going to say,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I've had that same convers station with AP
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: because of you know, certain things that happened in the
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: past where I've just had to be like, hey, if
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you don't want me to talk about this, I absolutely
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: say that word.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: We've gotten their permission, guys, we have gotten their permission
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: because it is our desire for this to be healing, right,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's a god led mission and we
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: want you know, we're raising godly children, and we're raising
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: children who care about the needs and the lives of
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: other people. And if that means that some of their
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: pain can help somebody, then it's not in vain.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's all this is. That's all it's ever been.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: And people who have tried to skew that you're wrong,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: just going to put that out there. Yeah, if you've
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: tried to skew that we're doing anything other than try
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: to help people by talking about our own pain, you
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: couldn't be more wrong.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's you know, my oldest already wants to
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: be the next doctor Hensley. She's she's taking ap psychology
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and she's like planning out where am I going to
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: get my master's two point zero? Listen. I was like,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: in ten years, if you have your doctorate and you
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: want to take this on, it will always be here
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: for you. If you don't, you want to do something else,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: I'm supportive of that too. I just want you to
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: be happy and be able to support yourself and whatever
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that looks like. But I mean, you have to understand.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Our kids are a little bit fascinated by what we do,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: and you know, sometimes they want to be a part
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: of it and they want to help, you know, make
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: sure that the mission. If anything they've been through can
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: help that mission, then do you want to be part
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: of it?
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: And then sometimes they're like, oh, mom, please stop psychoanalyzing.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: How do you get that? Sometimes from JP, like any situation,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: if we're talking about something, you know, I want to
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: deep dive. I want to deep dive into it. And
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I think Jessica's really really fascinated by Yeah, yeah, for sure,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: she's really fascinated by it. And she's you know, she's
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: so intuitive anyway and has super high EQ.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: And that is what trauma does to you. Gives just
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: super high EQ. And I hate to say it, but
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: the anxious preoccupied they think they have high EQ, but
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: they really don't. They don't. It's higher than the das,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: but not nearly what an FA or secure is. It's
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: because they just have these they have their blind spots
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: around how anxious they really are, Like they don't see it,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: just like the DA doesn't see their neglect and the
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: FA doesn't see their reactivity and dysfunction, they feel like
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: it's valid, they feel like it's justified. I'm telling you,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I've talked to enough aps that will try to talk
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: me into just giving my approval of their anxious behavior,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and when I don't, they freak out. They're like, but
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: but what about this? But then I'm abandoning them. No,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: you're not. You're not abandoning yourself. Yeah, exactly, in these
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: moments when you set boundaries, self abandons, ultimate self abandoners.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: And then eventually when they come to the work and
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: they look back, they're like, I have I don't even
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: know who I am.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I imagine the DA is probably like that too, just
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: takes them a little bit longer to figure it out.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the AP and the DA both don't know who
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: they are.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's like I know exactly, I can.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Tell you in a fifty paragraph essay who it is.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Just such a striking difference. And that's when people really
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: get into the nitty gritty of attachment. They're like, oh, man,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I thought I was AP, because all they recognize is
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I want more attention. Yeah, but how do you go
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: about getting more attention?
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: That's where these nuances are just so important and why
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: you know again, I think we've said it, or you've
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: said it to a million times in your content. Why, like,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: the online quizes just aren't valid.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: They're not valid, their clickbait garbage jump And I continue
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: to get this question every single day. Where can I
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: get a valid assessment? Well, you can come to our
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: practice and we will do a version of the adult
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: attachment interview with you, which is a qualitative, semi structured interview,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: which gives us some leeway to poke around a little bit.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: There's some standard questions, but there's leeway for us to
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: as interviewers, to poke around. And qualitative assessments have their
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: own sort of version of validity, and that one has
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: gone through peer review and it's been published for a
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: long time. The quantitative assessments, which means they ask questions
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: and the questions are answered on numeric scale, and then
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: they have a scoring system that gives you, you know,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: an overall score, and that score is interpreted. Those are
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: copyrighted and you have to go to someone with a
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: license to administer those. But I'm going to create my own.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm exciting working on it, and it's gosh,
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: I have so many projects in the works guys.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Gret is working on fifty million things right now.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I love when she's like, yeah, let's do this.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yay, another project now. But I am
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I get it just as excited.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: It's going to be awesome because I'm going to make
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: it available. I'm gonna make it publicly available. It's going
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: to be amazing. That way, people can actually take an
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: assessment and be very sure that it is a valid
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: and reliable assessment of their attachment style. So that I mean,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: these aquizzes out there, you might they might as well
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: ask you what is your favorite ice cream flavor? That's
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: how valid it is. And it really makes me mad
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: because two, actually three of them that I can think of,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: their master's level people, and they shouldn't have taken research methods.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Even research methods one on one at the master's level
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: would teach you just the basic outline of what psychometrics
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: is and what it does. Doesn't mean they have the
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: skills to actually perform psychometric analyzes and create an assessment,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: but they should know what valid it is, what reliability is,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: why we don't just make up questions and put them
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: out on the internet, and how that's extremely unethical they
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: should know that, and so I have some beef with them,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: but it is what it is. I'm not going to
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: call them out by name. I'm not allowed to have
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: an opinion about anything or anybody in.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: The same space, which is just crazy. It's just crazy you,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: if anything, you're allowed to have more of an opinion
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: because you have the knowledge around it.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I think that would give you. Oh my gosh. The
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: other day, I got a comment on Facebook and I
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: just I took a deep breath and I regulated myself
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: before I replied. It was like, you're not a trauma
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: informed therapist. You have no idea what you're talking about.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: You should not be talking about these assessments. And I
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: wanted to be like, this is what went through my
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: head and I had to challenge my thought. I had
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: to kick the devil out. But the devil said to me, bitch,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: who do you think creates these things and teaches you
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: how to use them and score them. Who do you
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: think is in the lab running the stats on this thing,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: doing the factor analysis, doing the reliability testing, doing the
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: validity analysis, doing the multi trait, multi method fucking matrix.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, Okay, Satan, not today, No,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: spirit of bitterness. Throw it out. I rebuke that, I
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: repent for it. The devil gets in my head too sometimes,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: of course, And I said, take a deep breath. They
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: just don't know because and I went to a profile.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: She's a master's level clinician. Good for you. Master's level
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: clinicians help a lot of people, but they're not psychometricians.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: You go, that's what That's what separates a PhD from
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: a master's level is we get research training. So who
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: do you think is putting together these assessments and coming
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: up with the scoring paradigms? Who do you think that is?
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: People like me? So how am I not qualified? If
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: I read the research paper on how this particular assessment
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: was created, I'll read the versions. A lot of these
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: assessments end up getting revised over time and pared down,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: so we have like the Experiences in Close Relationships scale,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: the first version was much longer. Then we have dash R,
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: which means revised, which means we've done more testing on
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: it as we've gotten more sample sizes. Right, we've gotten
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: more participants in the pool, so we can rerun the
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: analysis factor, you know, or narrow it down and make
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: a shorter version that still captures the validity, still measures
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: the construct. So it just it's just it gets old,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: kind of explaining to people what I actually do that. No,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist. I did not want to be
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: a therapist. You're a scientist. I'm a scientist. I'm a scientist.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Through and through that a small teaching college. Teaching was
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: my passion. I fell in love with teaching.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: You're good at it and it's a gift.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: So it's just like one of those things where I
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: just it just gets old. Yeah, but that was another tangent. Yeah,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. How how authentic you
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: just worked? Yeah, it was, And I want to be
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: more authentic. And I'm just at the point where it's like,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: if you want to judge me, freaking go ahead. It's fine. Yeah.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Christ has not one time convicted me over Actually, the
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Lord and I had a discussion about curse words. Yeah,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: several times, because I kept saying, God, you know, if
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: this is wrong, tell me. I want to know. It's
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: not like you say it every other word. Oh oh,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: there's one lady online in the space. Bombs are distracting,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: they really are, And what's the point you're yelling at me?
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get information and you're yet exactly. It
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: feels very.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Like and I mean she I think she's from up North,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: and they do have like a more directness.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: But that's how I feel like when I see her.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like, right, so I just kind of want to
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: run because ap is never authentic, But authenticity is the
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: most regulating thing to the nervous system. So I feel
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: very regulated after I was honest about when the devil
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: got in my head, and I am honest that I
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: had to correct that before I proceeded in my response.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: But the Lord and I had a conversation about curse words,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: and he's like, Sarah, I look at the content of
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: your heart. He's like, so there's a difference. Man made
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: up the word fuck. I didn't make that word up.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Man said that it was bad, Man gave it an acronym,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: man used it whatever. He's like, So I'm looking at
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: the content of your heart. So if you stub your
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: toe and you say ah fuck, He's like, I don't
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: care about that, right, the content of your heart was out.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I just hurt my foot, like, nobody's no harm, no foul.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: But if you say go fuck yourself, bitterness, absolutely not.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: You know that that is not within my commandments. So
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, thank you God for laying that out,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: because this has been all my heart for so long.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: And he also said, remember, I don't convict everybody in
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: the same way, and that's on purpose because maybe somebody
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: in order to change the content of their character and
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: the content of their heart, I have to take it
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: off the table for them. So I've convicted some people
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: that it has to be off the table or else
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: the content of their heart deviates. And I was just like, Wow, God,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for that, because I keep coming
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: back to it and I've just never felt like that,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: h Like, I need to stop saying these words, but
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I do feel a conviction around the way that I
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: use them.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you explained to that so beautifully.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: So to those aps out there, you know, authenticity is
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: what will allow you to release, you know, all of
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: that pent up anxiety, and authenticity does mean having boundaries
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: and saying this doesn't work for me, this doesn't feel
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: good to me. I need something else. And if asking
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: for what you need makes someone go away, they were
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: never going to give it to you anyway. So you
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: have gotten out before you have gone to your deathbed
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: not having your needs met well.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: And I find it really interesting too, because APS tend
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: to give so so much, their partner ends up resenting that.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, because there's all there becomes the giver and the taker,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: and it becomes very clear who's the giver and who's
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: the taker.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: There's no balance of respect, no.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: Balance of respect. And I talk to da partners of aps.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I talk to them every day. I mean not on
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: the weekends, but you know what I mean, more avoidable
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: less they's and they're like I would never like I
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: would hate to say this to my partner, but I
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: just don't respect them because like, who would Who would
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: respect someone that doesn't respect themselves? And it's not attractive.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Boundaryless love is not love. It's not love. And oh
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: my gosh, they this one and this is this is
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: another God thing. Is another thing that God revealed to
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: me the other day, because God has really spoken in
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: from literally day one that truth is love and that
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: enabling people's bad behavior is not love. And Jesus prioritized
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: truth over getting along. He sure did. And that is
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: what makes people so offended by Christianity because it prioritizes
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: truth over getting along, because if Jesus prioritized getting along
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: over truth, he would have to be lying about God
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: and blowing smoke up everybody's butt, and he would have
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: been kissing the Pharisees butt. And he wasn't doing that,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: he would have never died. He would have never died.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: He wouldn't have he prioritized truth over getting along. He
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: values truth as love more than getting along is as love.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Think about that, yeah, think about the disciples, what happened,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: how they betrayed him.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then people are like, oh, you're not perfect,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: you say a cuss word, You're not Christian. You like
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, You're not Christian. I'm like, look at who
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Jesus choses his disciples. He chose some really freaking broken people.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: He chose a tax collector. They were like the most
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: hated people on the planet. They were like the biggest sinners.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Everybody hated the tax collectors. He chose mouths. Yeah, yeah,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: he chose somebody he knew would betray him. So not
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: everybody that comes to serve the Lord is wrapped up
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: in a pretty package. And so for my AP's out there,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: you don't always have to be a pretty package, my friends,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: you get to be you in the healthier version of you.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Will thrive when you respect yourself, because think about how
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: much shame I'm not good enough. I'll be abandoned, meeting broken,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: you know, right, admitting the brokenness, emitting the brokenness, admitting
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: that my worth comes from external validation. It does. For
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: the ap there worth comes from external validation. That's when
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: I see all of these Gosh, we used to do
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: it too, back in our broken days. The thirst traps
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: on the social.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Media, Yeah, some of them are bad guys.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: We look back and we cringe. We're like, we're gonna
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: have to do something.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: We're so desperate, we're gonna have to do some content
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: around those old TikTok videos that we did on the lake,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: and oh gosh, I cringe.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: We'll watch them. It's because, you know, the anxious part
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: of us was like, well, we're nothing without somebody else
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: telling me we're something.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: And we wanted love so desperately.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, And I think that it shows. And then
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: people are like, I do this for myself. No you don't.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: You don't post that thirst trap on social media for yourself.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: If you do, you just look in the mirror. Yeah,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: you'd take a picture and you'd put it on your
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: mirror and you'd look at it every day if it
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: was for you. It's not for you. It's for other
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: people to see and you are getting something out of that.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: Think about that, and everyone does it. We're not shaming.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: No.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: I put up videos and things, but they're not. I
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: try to view my things now as not like as
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: much attention seeking as being authentic. And however it lands,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: it lands because I'm barely is celebrity, and like an
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: eat list double f list celebrity.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know you're getting there. It's getting there.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: But I'm out there, so I might as well have
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: fun and be off.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: And you're allowed to show up as exactly who you are.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a version of us on this podcast
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: that is more presentation style. That's all I can think about, Like,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: I have a presentation voice. When I get out of here,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna start sounding like this. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: and definite. Hold where's your where's your accent? I'm like
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: at home with my family. Yeah. When I when I'm
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: speak thinking, the Ohio girl comes out in me. I've
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: been you know, I've lived half my life in Ohio,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: my life in Kentucky.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I definitely hold back. I could admit to that and
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: still get anxious. And you know, even watching videos, I
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: think I've come a long way from the beginning, but
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I definitely hold back in certain things that I want.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: To say or you know, just not. I'm kind of
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: over it. Yeah, I'm kind of over it now. We've
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: come out of the closet. Yeah, you know, you know
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: who we are, you know what we stand for, you
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: know what our beliefs are. Probably can guess our political
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: beliefs at this point. We don't freaking care. Yeah, and
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: we love you. We don't care what your political beliefs are.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: We don't care who you love. We don't care who
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: you're married to. We don't care if you have changed
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: your gender. We do not care. We judge you zero percent,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: all right, you know. I mean if you ask us
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: what we will do for our lives, that's a different question.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: But we don't care what you do with your life.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: We want you to heal, and we want you to
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: be healthy and happy and love who you want to love.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: That's your business, and do whatever it is you want
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: to do. I'm a libertarian, Like I said, I'll just
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: admit it. I'm a libertarian. I believe in just freedom
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: all across the board. It doesn't mean that the things
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I believe you are free to do I think God
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: approves of. But God doesn't approve a lot of things.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Doesn't improve of fear, does improved bitterness, He doesn't improve
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: of shame. He doesn't improve of a lot of things.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: So I'm not calling anybody out on any specific sins
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: or else. Nobody would be welcome to this party. Yeah,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: should we do another podcast? Guys? I think we should
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: like Unhinged or Unfilled? The Raw. I like the raw version. Yeah,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: the raw version of the Love Doc. Like the raw
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: version with Sarah and Rena. Yeah, we just get a
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: new backdrop. Yeah, we might have to think this through.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: And I know Vanny's over our producers are over here, Like,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I have enough hours in the day.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know if all listen, Yeah, let us know
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: what you might think about us doing it.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, leave us a review and say if you want
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: us to do a raw version, like you really want
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: to see Raina and Sarah's personality because we are fun
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: and we are fun and we are so fun and
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: we are so funny and we are so not politically correct,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: and we are so and.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I open my mouth and insert my foot all the time.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: She does all the time.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: And I love you for it though, because you recover
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: from it. You're just like, oh man, you know, I
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: had Diary.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Of the mouth just then A lot. It's a lot
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: like I would love to be able to show up
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: more of like how I show up on the jazzer
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: sized stage, Like I don't care. I love jazzer size
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: right now. I don't even care what I say. Whatever
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: comes out comes out. But I definitely hold back here.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: We have to because it's a bigger stage.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: It is a bigger stage, and people when you're talking
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: about these sensitive issues, Oh my gosh, if I hear
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: one more time, you're a mental health provider, how dare
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: you say that? First of all, I'm not. I'm a coach.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: I'm a behavioral scientist. I am holding nobody's mental health
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: in my hands. I don't treat any mental health disorders.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Attachment is not a mental health disorder. It is a
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: pattern of behavior caused by reinforcement. Reinforcement is behaviorism, which
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: is social psychology. So on you there you go. Tell him,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: tell him. Yeah, I'm kidding, but not really. It's like,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: is that does that waterline on bitterness? Because then I
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: have to rebuke it. There's no bitterness, It's just I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: get tired, Yeah, tired.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: It does get exhausting. And that's the thing I mean
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: when you talk about authenticity, when you don't show up authentic,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: it does get exhausting.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: It gets exhausting, and the AP is exhausted. Do you
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: know how much cortisol and adrenaline you're pumping out as
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: an AP.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: And how much it's stealing from your internal organs?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, your internal organs are like limping a
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: lot of think about sweets. Okay, precious, he's gonna be okay,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: we're gonna He's got the smartest mama.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, honey. I appreciate it.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: I do. He's gonna they come back around, you know, yeah,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: you do.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: He will. So if you are an AP, or if
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: you are the partner of an AP, you can check
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: out doctor Hansley services at the lovedog dot com. We
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: do have a little announcement. Doctor Hinsley is no longer
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: taking on new clients, but of course, coach Elizabeth and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: coach Amy are still a wonderful option for one on one.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: But we I still do the group.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, group, that my main focus.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: She wants.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: The reason why that you have decided to take this
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: step back is because your focus wants to be on
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: the hybrid group. It is the most popular and most
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: cost effective service. It is the fast track to healing.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: I've said it once, I'll say it again. Every time
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: that I sit in on group, I still learned something
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: after eight years of being around her and hearing these attachments.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Feels for eight years, okay.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: I feel like I know everything. I remember the last
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: time I start, I like met Reyna and I goes
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: hanging out with a group of friends and I started
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: talking about attachment and there was a friend that is
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: no longer in our friend group for a number of reasons.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: It's like nobody wants to hear about like your psychology stuff.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: And I was like, you know what, one day somebody will.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: Want to hear somebody will want to look at her now,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: look at her now. So because I even was like, yeah, Sarah,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: nobody wants to hear.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: About that and now. And I was like, fine, I'll
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: just me service level.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Small talk and at that time I didn't see it,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: but now I do everything so clear. But that's what
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: happens when you hang out with the scientists for as
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: long as I have, and I hear you know, I
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: watch all of our content a lot because I help
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: posting and then I'll answer help answer messages and all that.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: So I feel like I've got a pretty good grip
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: on it. Maybe i could be the love dog two
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: point zero.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Maybe anyway, I don't want I.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Don't, I don't. I don't want it. Guys, the pressure
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: is too immense. So yeah, it's too too We.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Have to process my emotions a lot lately.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's too much. So soulless going on. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: So if you want to learn about soulless, which is
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: doctor Hinsley's trademarked healing strategy, you're gonna have to join
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: the hybrid group. It is where you're gonna get it.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: That's where you're gonna get it. That's where you're going
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: to get really the deep dive into. Of course, it's
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: in the course as well, but it's so important to
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: have the calls on top of the course because there's
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: just so much material that the calls really break it.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Down right, and a lot of people you get the customization. Yeah,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: So I can't teach to your nervous system when you
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: just buy the course, although the course is a great
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: place to start, and you can always add the group
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: later and we will discount the cost of the course.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: So we will take it off the price of the
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: group because the group comes with the course, and if
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: you've already bought it, we're not going to charge you
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: for it twice. But I can attune to you in group.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: I can look at your body language. I can hear
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: the tone of your voice. If you want to be anonymous,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: that's fine, but I can tell by the way you
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: frame your question what's going on with you. And I
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: can attune to you and I can customize the tool
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: to your nervous system when you give me information about you.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: So that is what you get in the group that
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: you do not get with just the course.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and prices are one after the first three years.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Also because we did everything, we redid everything, we made
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: it you know, better, better, more material. Seventy page work
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: book now comes with the course in the hybrid group.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: So not to mention, you know, we just have to
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: continue to scale and we want to grow and it's
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: taking more and more, of course to make this business grow,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: and we have to reflect that in our prices. Of course,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: that's just how businesses are run. So it is a
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: better time now than ever.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Because you will get the old price with the new material.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Yes them, December is your month.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: December is your month, especially going into the new year
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: and really like focusing on self, you know, reflection, change
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: and all those things. That's how we always want to
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: go into a new year. We should always approach every
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: day that way. But we always know that the new
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: year is a good place to start. So go see
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: doctor Hinsley at the loovedoc dot com. Continue to tune in.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: We love you guys so much. Leave us a review,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: write us. We will always read them. I read every
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: single email and the ones that write in and tell
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: us your stories. You have no idea how much they
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: touch us. They touch us deeply. We appreciate it so
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: so much, so much, So keep tuning in and until
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: next time, peace, love and perspective by P.