Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Colin Neal about his choice of The Ultimate Foe (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to Colin Neal about his choice of The Ultimate Foe (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:39
  Welcome back to a hamster with a bump in life, the Doctor Who
• 0:43
  commentary podcast I am here today with somebody that I have
• 0:48
  never spoken to you face-to-face before.
• 0:49
  But I am delighted that he is here, mr.
• 0:52
  Cullen Neal. So hello:.
• 0:54
  Hello Monica Beyond railyard, Boatyard.
• 0:57
  Hello. Good to see you.
• 0:59
  We've got a little clue as to what we're talking about today
• 1:01
  and you go, no, I thank you Joe for for having me.
• 1:06
  It's been great to meet you. In this sort of pandemic, Zoom
• 1:11
  podcasting world that we're in now, but I really delighted to
• 1:14
  come on and talk about what we're going to talk about.
• 1:17
  So I put a tweet out, basically it was an SOS because nobody
• 1:25
  nobody had chosen a pip and Jane Baker script and I have a big
• 1:28
  love for Pippin, Jade. Interestingly, on the back of
• 1:33
  that, they were all snapped up within about three hours.
• 1:36
  So that was our, it's a good way, it's a good way.
• 1:39
  Way of, you know, sort of getting stuff because some
• 1:42
  people will will immediately go for, if you're very sort of
• 1:46
  Niche on it, where you need, you know, and so, what did you
• 1:49
  choose for us to watch? I chose.
• 1:53
  So, so you aren't given Jane stuff.
• 1:55
  But I went for half pip and Jane half.
• 1:58
  Robot homes are probably a little bit of Eric's a word,
• 2:01
  which is the ultimate bone, which is the ultimate hybrid of
• 2:05
  writers, right? It's really ultimately, The
• 2:09
  hydrated. This is not an altogether
• 2:14
  popular season, but I believe you have a fondness for trial of
• 2:19
  a Time. Lord, I do.
• 2:21
  I think it was at the time when I think I was 10 or 11, it's
• 2:28
  been off air for a while and it came when it came back.
• 2:32
  I was just really, really the two as kind of that age where I
• 2:35
  was getting really into something.
• 2:38
  And I I love the atmosphere of it.
• 2:40
  I love the fact that it was a long Arc story.
• 2:44
  I'm, I'm hugely into our stories in any case, in any TV I watch
• 2:52
  and so it just worked for me. I loved the atmosphere, I love
• 2:57
  the difference between all the different stories.
• 2:59
  I love the theme running throughout it and I love the
• 3:02
  twist. I thought, you know, it's not
• 3:06
  perfect in any way in any way, but it's It's special to me.
• 3:10
  What I love is the father, you have grown up and that love is
• 3:13
  still there. A lot of people love things when
• 3:15
  they're how old are you? I think it's 1111 a lot of
• 3:19
  people love things when they were 11 and then, you know,
• 3:22
  they're 30 years old. And you look back with slight
• 3:24
  embarrassment, what they should have done was, get you on that
• 3:28
  point of view episodes, that's on their activity, because I
• 3:31
  think Pippin Jane would have been delighted instead of
• 3:34
  Defending themselves against lovely.
• 3:36
  Chris Chappell, when he was younger.
• 3:39
  And now, I wonder what other, you know, there should be a
• 3:42
  special feature where they play that back to Chris chibnall, you
• 3:46
  know, What do you think? What do you think of your
• 3:50
  younger self? I feel like he probably be that
• 3:54
  a little bit, you know. I don't know, maybe some Humble
• 3:57
  Pie or something a few years ago they could have got Pepin Jane
• 4:00
  to maybe seven up on points of view and say so Chris.
• 4:04
  Yeah there's really not much to it is that okay?
• 4:10
  Before we start I know you've done some previous podcasting if
• 4:16
  people would like to find All the things that you've done and
• 4:18
  I know you've done some pretty Prestige podcasting.
• 4:21
  Where would they find you? Well, I've been very lucky to be
• 4:25
  invited onto other people's podcast which I love.
• 4:29
  So I've done fly through entirety Lazarus experiment and
• 4:34
  Enlightenment and one Jerry and Terror.
• 4:38
  So, absolutely thrilled to have done those and mark from trak-1,
• 4:43
  always invites me back and we talked about the You know,
• 4:48
  anything from Revelation Revolution are of the Daleks the
• 4:54
  last one to Big finish episodes that come out on wine.
• 4:59
  Also work, thank you to mark, for always inviting me back to
• 5:02
  trap one, I love doing them. And and now this which I'm very
• 5:07
  grateful for being on, well I kind of feel like I'm doing the
• 5:10
  rounds of the fly for entirety and trap run.
• 5:13
  Guess because one because listen, Fantastic podcast with
• 5:20
  some really fantastic guests. So I'm really pleased you're
• 5:23
  here today. I am queued up and ready to go.
• 5:25
  If you are. Okay.
• 5:27
  Yes I think it should work. My press press this button
• 5:30
  whenever you are. I will count as in then in five
• 5:33
  four, three, two one. Let's go.
• 5:42
  Dominic planes music for this season.
• 5:46
  I think, I've been spoiled by big finish because all of
• 5:48
  Colin's stories or most of them have this music on it and then
• 5:51
  my favorite big finish's. So this theme tune to me is like
• 5:56
  definitive. Now it is, I mean, you always
• 6:00
  Color Maker. Always says, this is my thing,
• 6:03
  you know, this is the only did this for me or Worse.
• 6:06
  Not a fact and he's quite right. I loved it.
• 6:09
  I loved it. I think.
• 6:10
  Peter houses just just so Progressive and just gorgeous
• 6:16
  bits of synth everywhere. And this is very sort of bouncy
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  and I love it a lot. So here we are in the control
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  very well lit because no one has anything nice to say about this
• 6:30
  set. Do they?
• 6:31
  I've listened to all the commentaries on this set and
• 6:33
  everyone from the directors are the actors.
• 6:36
  They all think this is a An atmospheric set to shoot in it.
• 6:43
  I think it's perfunctory it doesn't job as a courtroom in
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  some respect you know just the fact that they're in separate
• 6:51
  boxes across a room and there's some jewelry but if you think
• 6:58
  you're going to use that for probably I don't know 20% of the
• 7:03
  footage then maybe you want to do something like our you know a
• 7:07
  rounded kind of Sportatorium or something like this.
• 7:11
  But so here we are. It's Exquisite Lynda.
• 7:15
  Bellingham as the stuff. Yeah.
• 7:18
  She's great - she's great. Have you ever?
• 7:20
  Um by the way heard the big finish they've done trying to
• 7:25
  the Vanguard. Yeah I have had that.
• 7:28
  Well I've so I've reviewed most a big finish for my blog.
• 7:31
  Okay brilliant she played a part in the first couple of series of
• 7:35
  the Gallifrey audio that they did eventually.
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  She's an all-out villain like she's she's a brilliant.
• 7:41
  She's amazing. Like isn't terrific.
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  It's like server land, but in got on Gallifrey, you know, it's
• 7:47
  super good for James angry, of course, delivery.
• 8:01
  Yes, Lord yes. So again interesting I mean I
• 8:11
  can tell the stool but they film this before they filmed her of
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  the bad ones. I mean obviously I'll tell
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  because you know they feel things out of order all the time
• 8:19
  in any case but it's clever that they all sort of it all ended up
• 8:26
  working out and all and you can't really tell can you like
• 8:29
  this but The record of sensor. This is a conclusion to Colin
• 8:33
  Baker's time because it wasn't supposed to be a conclusion to
• 8:36
  know, it was and then my mom shot again.
• 8:39
  If we all love and it's what was it 45,000 pounds or something
• 8:43
  like that? I think it was painful much more
• 8:45
  than Nicola Bryant. You know, I think there's a
• 8:48
  joke. Well he's clearly we go.
• 8:54
  So yeah, and I think Eric's a would know, is it in the Robert?
• 8:58
  A first draft, it will just Glitz.
• 9:01
  Derived, always, mail not enlisted in the yeah, I think.
• 9:06
  So I've just read the book. I got a memory like a sieve.
• 9:09
  So I forgotten exactly but it was definitely 11 version of
• 9:12
  this script where only Blitz arrives.
• 9:16
  I mean, look at this, at the beginning of a beautiful
• 9:18
  relationship and thank God because that's where she's going
• 9:21
  to end up. Yeah.
• 9:22
  What a Makes no sense at all and Dragonfire a little twinkle
• 9:29
  between them there, you know. It's but this makes sense,
• 9:36
  doesn't it bringing in two essential to pieces of evidence
• 9:40
  from stories? We've seen Glitz from mysterious
• 9:42
  planet mail from Terror of the vervoids to kind of go over.
• 9:46
  What we've seen. Is it true?
• 9:48
  Is it false? It's a nice dramatic device, and
• 9:52
  it works really well. Even though there is Ton of
• 9:54
  exposition here. It does.
• 9:58
  I think it this is a this is a pretty.
• 10:00
  I'm not like we're saying before, I love Arc stories.
• 10:04
  And this this is a big one. And he of course, we get the big
• 10:08
  reveal of the master, but what was going on with the three
• 10:13
  sleepers, what will secrets? Are they stealing Quran from
• 10:16
  Earth to take to Andromeda? Or I'm still a little bit Hasty
• 10:20
  about all the details but, you know, like this like a backstory
• 10:25
  here, they They partially succeeded in doing but this is
• 10:32
  great concept, right? You have the Matrix which was
• 10:34
  like invented in the 70s and the like a giant computer that
• 10:39
  stores everything and from every point in time, wouldn't it be
• 10:45
  great to Nick something from there, you know, and that's
• 10:49
  great. And I think the difference
• 10:52
  between how this is dull and how locks are dumb now, Is the that
• 10:58
  would be kind of embedded. And gather momentum throughout
• 11:01
  the story was what happens here is if yes, you've got 124 and at
• 11:05
  the end of 12 for Colin, Baker goes, oh, so what's with that?
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  And what we never did find out about that.
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  And I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to the
• 11:12
  sleepers, and then here, we use it Forward 2 episode 13, and
• 11:16
  this is where we get the answers.
• 11:17
  We've kind of no reference to it in between, but that's okay.
• 11:22
  Doesn't make my Walkman. Still have a lot to say about
• 11:25
  what's going on in terms. Of the whole deception with
• 11:29
  another story. What works is that?
• 11:31
  The payoff is excellent. Yeah, that it was the time left
• 11:35
  behind it but basically the titles are just basically the
• 11:37
  villains of the classic series. Aren't they?
• 11:39
  A behave appallingly that they are like just brexit ears or you
• 11:46
  know the old school, kind of white supremacist, kind of, you
• 11:51
  know, Colonial like you know, they're they're all overseeing
• 11:56
  an all-powerful. Fulham, you know, I'm being, I'm
• 11:58
  being a bit ridiculous first, you know, that, that's why the
• 12:03
  doctor left, because he couldn't see, just couldn't cope with
• 12:05
  that culture anymore. So, there they are.
• 12:11
  Yeah, they're not like, the Paragon of the, the, the
• 12:14
  universe, which is kind of sad in a way that you like, I'm kind
• 12:18
  of sad that there aren't more good time Lords.
• 12:21
  But it was really, it was sort of embedded in.
• 12:23
  Was it in in the Deadly Assassin.
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  The there are kind of Corrupt and the not the sort of the gods
• 12:30
  that were presented in the, yeah games.
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  Robert. I was like deliberately
• 12:34
  undermine that and he's doing the same thing here.
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  But, you know, hopefully Ramana still out there, you know, and
• 12:41
  let something happen on a good time.
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  Look, back. At some point, I've got to say
• 12:46
  that. I mean, I do love it.
• 12:47
  I love it. I love the brownie, the master.
• 12:52
  Yeah, very good. Yes.
• 12:55
  Yeah. Cover holes, spin-off on The
• 12:59
  Keeper of the Matrix. I can't help.
• 13:00
  But notice that we've completely neglected to mention that
• 13:03
  Anthony a lie has turned up on the screen to basically destroy
• 13:09
  all of the valuables plans and like reveal the whole thing's
• 13:12
  been a calm. But again it's another he plays
• 13:17
  it brilliantly here. I was like yo that's another
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  one. I forgot.
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  But you know the yeah because you could have just had him
• 13:25
  versus the valley Island. I'm Comfort computation in The
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  Matrix and stuff but this adds it adds an extra level to it and
• 13:31
  it sort of adds who's going to win out of the three of them
• 13:35
  LOL. Rather who's going to get
• 13:37
  one-upmanship on the on the other villain initially.
• 13:41
  I think it makes it makes no sense and then it makes perfect
• 13:44
  sense when he drops that disguise the doctor.
• 13:47
  So of course he's going to turn up and throw a spanner in the
• 13:50
  works. That's one of the biggest
• 13:52
  reveals or concept to plot twists.
• 13:56
  Everything doctor Should I put a spoiler warning in?
• 13:58
  I think 40 years is okay, right? Yeah, I think we're all right.
• 14:04
  Put something in the show notes just but conversation.
• 14:13
  Efficient, Colin is Sensational here.
• 14:15
  He's a terrific and this speech I mean I know it word for word,
• 14:19
  I weren't subjected to it but this piece is this is this is
• 14:23
  his moment. It is it everything.
• 14:26
  He's got this righteous Fury in so many of his performances.
• 14:31
  He's sort of he's the angriest doctor because he's trying to
• 14:36
  just deal with impossible situations and correcting
• 14:41
  Injustice. He's very sort of, pretty, kind
• 14:44
  of angry and pissed off about it.
• 14:46
  I can tell you where some ways the angriest doctor is because
• 14:49
  he's stuck in the lyrics award universe and it's cynical when
• 14:53
  it's nasty and it's ugly. Glee.
• 14:55
  I that's true actually and he's got to wear that fucking Coke.
• 14:59
  Oh yeah, but here we go and see me Outburst.
• 15:05
  There we go. It's great.
• 15:06
  What's so great that's marvelous is, he's been fairly shouty for
• 15:10
  out this, but this just tops of all, like they saved the best
• 15:13
  for last. Yeah, Matt look of anger and
• 15:19
  real kind of screw you met at the master, you know what's
• 15:25
  absurd here? Yeah if you've got a phenomenal
• 15:28
  cast it, Michael Jason Lynda, Bellingham Anthony, Amy Colin
• 15:31
  Baker and they've all been shocked in the most ridiculous
• 15:34
  costumes ever and told and told to Silva seed, and they do look
• 15:39
  at this that but under the right now, we got here right now, but
• 15:42
  Dominica is going all out on. Really sort of dark Deep chords
• 15:49
  and really really hitting home on what's going on.
• 15:52
  It's not a subtle touch but Chris costumes, the doctors face
• 15:56
  half in the shadow and I realized well hurry much shadowy
• 16:01
  this but absolutely the same President, we got the funniest
• 16:08
  bit coming out where Colin is so busy ranting you can't see
• 16:13
  Michael Jason walking past cameras, one to find him, and
• 16:19
  then like, let's follow him about it first, then we go.
• 16:25
  Okay. And you know what, though I
• 16:28
  think these are I'll be kind, these are incredibly stagy sets
• 16:36
  and so I'm very pleased, we're about to head off on location.
• 16:40
  I know that the pension side, I think it's terrific but the idea
• 16:44
  of the Matrix being like these sort of Victorian back alleys is
• 16:49
  really fun. I think the first I think Robert
• 16:52
  Holmes is first draft for this was supposed to be very Jack,
• 16:55
  the Ripper either him or it but I think it was the one that
• 17:03
  brought it back from being too much like that.
• 17:06
  So here you All, and there's like the London, Bridge is
• 17:12
  falling down, it's fine. This all that, I mean, if that's
• 17:19
  a set, or if they're, if they're actually at the always had a bit
• 17:23
  of a. No, I think that's that's a
• 17:24
  location. That's still particularly
• 17:27
  awesome live video all day. So sometimes you can't say,
• 17:32
  Yeah, that's true. Now it's all on video now and
• 17:34
  it's just that light looks very. He's had a bit of a blow dry.
• 17:38
  I think between entering the Matrix.
• 17:42
  It is astonishing, you know, have you ever seen the publicity
• 17:45
  pictures of Conley Baker when he took on the role?
• 17:47
  Where's heaven, Nicola Bryant, those black and white pictures.
• 17:50
  I think I have. Yeah, is a stunningly
• 17:52
  attractive, man. How do you make him look like
• 17:55
  this? I know has had a thing for
• 18:01
  people's hair all the time. I think that is a Pottery
• 18:15
  Factory. I think that was supposed to be
• 18:17
  a convention about a year ago, I think for this or maybe a bit
• 18:22
  longer, but it got cancelled or moved.
• 18:25
  We're calling the Michael we're going to be there, but I had to
• 18:29
  get, I love the atmosphere just nails like that.
• 18:32
  It is like a pyro in a second, the a that is the error for.
• 18:37
  I can't believe you're in here, but let me just say I love how
• 18:44
  you how we drags Glitz along into every danger, along with
• 18:48
  him as well, but they are a really good double act.
• 18:51
  They work really well with the mysterious planet.
• 18:52
  They work really well here, interesting, I don't think Glitz
• 18:55
  works as well. When Dragonfire alongside
• 18:57
  Sylvester McCoy? I'm glad He's back.
• 19:03
  I do like him. I really like the character and
• 19:07
  him. I think like, I don't have a
• 19:11
  great memory of dragon fire, but he just seemed a bit of an
• 19:15
  accessory. Whereas this is is needed.
• 19:19
  Yeah. I feel like with every
• 19:20
  appearance that he had, he lost his age like in the mysterious,
• 19:23
  man. He's a little bit dangerous,
• 19:25
  isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
• 19:26
  He's proper flan assassin right. He's throwing grenades at the
• 19:30
  Savages and stuff. He's introduced like Thoroughly
• 19:32
  through a gun sights. Yeah.
• 19:36
  Shoot the doctor. It's fine.
• 19:39
  There's a hose is whole Twitter account, which randomly retweet
• 19:41
  my tweets Glitz quotes throughout the day, really?
• 19:45
  And you see, here we go. The Fantasy Factory.
• 19:51
  This is As you fold it, Collins fucking Co.
• 19:58
  It's actually bearable in the night shoes and the next to the
• 20:02
  Fantasy Factory logo. Yeah.
• 20:08
  Oh yeah, I remember this. The the spear comes out and it's
• 20:11
  very wobbly, isn't it? So boring?
• 20:15
  But yeah, that's it. So now we get Bonnie Langford
• 20:23
  doing righteous evil right for righteous evil, sorry.
• 20:26
  Well, that's another that's a different exercise and they cut
• 20:31
  some of it out because, you know, obviously she says like
• 20:33
  how utterly evil? Yes, On the on the Blu-ray
• 20:37
  season 23 box set, the all episodes are extended length.
• 20:41
  That is put back. What did she say?
• 20:43
  She was she said something else. How utterly evil.
• 20:46
  And if we think about something like that, she literally sounds
• 20:50
  like violet Elizabeth bought there.
• 20:53
  That's right. That's right.
• 20:56
  Oh, a little mention of for your car lost their so we're
• 20:59
  preparing ourselves for the almighty Twist of Perry's.
• 21:01
  Fate you next episode. Yeah, we'll get it.
• 21:08
  I love this. I love this concept is kids
• 21:10
  constantly tricking you and making you know what's real and
• 21:14
  what's not real and sort of a recursive slide sort of
• 21:19
  Christopher @h B me style to it where it's you really don't know
• 21:25
  what the rules are. Constantly coming up the role.
• 21:30
  He this is the sort of Doctor Who he wanted to make this sort
• 21:33
  of sapphire and Steely. What's real?
• 21:36
  What isn't sort of mind-bending games and it really works.
• 21:46
  And I love how Robert Holmes as well.
• 21:48
  He's always really strong when he leans into Victoria Anna and
• 21:52
  you get that brilliantly in a minute that you would Papa Wick
• 21:56
  and he's very yeah Jago esque dialogue what it's about whole
• 22:02
  bureaucracy thing and provide homes is taxes and just him just
• 22:06
  getting exhausted but I'm just sort of taking it out on a
• 22:10
  character that's supposed to represent the tax office and
• 22:13
  something like that. I'd love this bit the video
• 22:17
  where the master lives. She just starts giggling, like a
• 22:20
  loony at the chaos that he's caused, but insurrectionists are
• 22:24
  going to mock on Gallifrey and he's loving it.
• 22:30
  So it's a it's a great way of having him up the stakes
• 22:37
  slightly in the. Well, I guess you like, is you,
• 22:40
  I mean, because you've known the value as after the doctor, since
• 22:44
  the end of episode one. I think from what mysterious
• 22:46
  planet, but you don't. But, you know, quite not you're
• 22:50
  not sure the motivations or anything like that but to have
• 22:52
  it up a level like this is, I'm just sitting there and just
• 22:58
  observing everything. Is that fun way I think I knees,
• 23:03
  while star comes in for quite their flag as they like in the
• 23:06
  mid eighties but he just seems to be having so much fun.
• 23:11
  Like he's not really going for sinister is a lie.
• 23:13
  So survival the other day and he's going for all out like
• 23:16
  scares. They're here.
• 23:18
  He's just rebelling in chaos. He's like a little gesture that
• 23:22
  stirring up the ants. Sorry that was a terrible mixed
• 23:24
  metaphor but just a story I'll be outside.
• 23:29
  That's not bad. Actually, is that a description?
• 23:31
  I think comes no conscious. We talked about earlier is like,
• 23:36
  the, the old concept of received wisdom.
• 23:39
  And like, who knows when it was decided that trial of the time,
• 23:43
  lord was like, always not great. Or only was not the great Mark,
• 23:49
  the best master. It's like well it was the only
• 23:51
  master I you I never saw any do fail.
• 23:53
  God 04 tool like a few ten years ago or something.
• 23:57
  I can tell though I can't. Tell you exactly who just hoping
• 24:00
  that you know I'm going to lay the blame in two areas.
• 24:03
  I could be in trouble. Here I'm going to lay the blame
• 24:06
  for D wa s because I feel like they had a lot of opinions way
• 24:10
  and those reference books that came out in like the 80s.
• 24:14
  No, I never wanted to take the time.
• 24:16
  Yeah. You know, that declared certain
• 24:18
  stories, invasion of dinosaurs trial of a Time Lord, as
• 24:21
  gunfighters as absolute does and it almost seeped into fan
• 24:26
  Consciousness that without seeing these, these are just
• 24:28
  done So I'm pleased you were there at the time to have your
• 24:32
  own opinion. Yeah.
• 24:35
  Well again I think I like I said, the reason I like this
• 24:38
  story is because it was just right there in the part of my
• 24:42
  childhood. And it sort of stuck, I'd been
• 24:44
  off TV for a while, it just had lots of hooks for me, like, I
• 24:51
  loved all the music. I love the atmosphere.
• 24:54
  I love what that, what they were doing with an art story.
• 24:57
  Did you like the entire season? I did.
• 24:58
  You like everything. The story.
• 25:00
  I think I was least happy with vervoids, I didn't because I
• 25:04
  just thought that was a bit. Okay, it's a murder mystery or
• 25:09
  whatever but actually, I like that a lot.
• 25:13
  I do like that a lot and mr. Is planet, I absolutely love
• 25:19
  mysterious planet. I love apocalyptic post
• 25:23
  apocalyptic stuff so whether some no one around but it's just
• 25:27
  the forest and Mobile arts and the grounds brilliant of that
• 25:31
  stuff and mind will I again I thought the music was just the
• 25:37
  best atmosphere building stuff along the lines of stuff with
• 25:41
  the stuff. We're Chillin does, but I think
• 25:43
  the production value in my walk is fantastic and I have some
• 25:48
  really good wash that now apart from maybe some of that paint
• 25:51
  box stuff at the beginning with. Yeah yeah.
• 25:53
  Oh I quite like the planets. It looks great.
• 25:56
  But it's very. It's very 80s.
• 25:58
  Yeah, they probably Tone it down a little bit now, but like the
• 26:01
  certainly like the lighting the sets, as you say, the music.
• 26:06
  And that's one thing I don't get about this season.
• 26:08
  I don't get people like condemning an entire year of
• 26:13
  Doctor Who when there are clearly strengths here.
• 26:16
  Even if you don't have access, Well, we can try it, I'm sure.
• 26:22
  But everyone's got, you know, it's been going long enough for
• 26:25
  something for everyone. And it's not like I've ever seen
• 26:28
  something that makes me go. I you know, I'm going off this
• 26:30
  show now and all I can say is when the Blu-ray was announced I
• 26:35
  was ridiculously excited. Yeah.
• 26:37
  Well I just rape I took a week off of watch the whole thing,
• 26:40
  pretty much pretty much the same.
• 26:43
  I remember telling combat kind of Baker when because I think a
• 26:46
  big finish day I remember telling him.
• 26:51
  Toronto with my favorite season, which was, it's nearly like talk
• 26:56
  to and he was like, really, it has height, okay?
• 27:02
  Even he's gone on to believe, it is.
• 27:07
  One of the best inventions. Can I ask you, if you see if you
• 27:11
  admit this in circles to people, look at you, strangely, Sorry
• 27:15
  Tony, if you admit that, Shalom tunnels one of your favorite
• 27:18
  season is two people. Look at you, strangely.
• 27:20
  Well, not really because my only admitted to talk to fans.
• 27:26
  So this this scene with the JJ Chambers is quite long.
• 27:31
  Actually. I don't realize how how long
• 27:36
  it's going on. It's puncturing II.
• 27:38
  Anything that is taking the piss out of your Opera see because I
• 27:40
  hate red tape. I just hate it.
• 27:43
  So and this is taking the Mickey out of See jerz.
• 27:46
  And speaking of somebody, oh I'll keep my work Anonymous but
• 27:49
  there are many procedures there to unravel.
• 27:53
  I feel that us Expense. Oh here we go into what I think
• 28:01
  is a really great Cliffhanger. This is great.
• 28:04
  We nearly at the Cliffhanger already.
• 28:05
  We are 30 minutes here. At this something.
• 28:10
  Okay. So there's something very nasty
• 28:13
  about limbs protruding out of something and just sort of
• 28:18
  waving about it. It's brilliant.
• 28:21
  And it can Moffitt plays a really great homage to it with a
• 28:27
  hand lines. Yes, it is in which is
• 28:34
  something. Yeah, I like hand my brain.
• 28:36
  That's Terrific. But like, but this is this, I
• 28:41
  mean that's I'm not sure how they achieve that.
• 28:43
  They're I'm assuming there was some CGI what it looks like.
• 28:45
  Looks like the one about the castle of my own but underneath
• 28:49
  that quicksand. Okay.
• 29:20
  Okay. So as a standalone piece that
• 29:23
  episode because obviously you can't you you love it in
• 29:27
  together as one story but it is kind of its own thing isn't
• 29:30
  because this is the Robert Holmes half.
• 29:33
  Do you think this is the superior half?
• 29:35
  Of Ultimate Fighter. And yes, I think it is because
• 29:41
  it It. The, the part two is generally
• 29:47
  solved by blowing up a machine, you know, you know, in a world
• 29:54
  that's computer-generated. I think the reveals in this
• 29:57
  very, very good. I think the the feeling of dread
• 30:02
  that's kind of the was there in the last episode of mindwarp is
• 30:07
  back as well as like, you up the stakes.
• 30:10
  It's a big Cliffhanger. Wow.
• 30:13
  So So the can you imagine like that?
• 30:15
  I can't imagine more Stakes than the villain.
• 30:18
  Is the doctor and needs to be exactly what a great concept for
• 30:22
  the great idea. Honestly, one of the singular
• 30:25
  best twists in the show. I think.
• 30:28
  So, it's great stuff.