Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Rory Kennedy - Boeing Promised To Do Better After Deadly Crashes… They Haven’t

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Interview Only w/ Rory Kennedy - Boeing Promised To Do Better After Deadly Crashes… They Haven’t · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: and then call Chapter today at nine eight zero seven
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  Speaker 1: three four three nine eight five. So my guest today
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: is a familiar name to many of you. It's Rory Kennedy,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and she is here to talk about a brand new
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: documentary that's going to be debuting on Netflix on August nineteenth.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: It's called free Fall, Reckoning for Boeing, and it's a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: pretty intense look inside of just sort of what's gone
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: wrong for Boeing over the last fifteen to twenty years,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: because it hasn't been a good track record. They have
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: had problems with launching new planes, and the documentary really
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: gets into questions about quality to control. It gets into
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: questions about outsourcing and whether that may have been a
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: contributing factor. The type of leadership that Boeing gravitated towards
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: less about people who had expertise in the industry and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: more about people who maybe had expertise in putting stock
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: prices higher and things like that. And I will just
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: tell you this about Rory's history and documentary, She's done
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: some terrific work. I've already seen this. This is terrific.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I be honest, I'm a little I'm going to be
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: a little more nervous the next airplane Boeing airplane. I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: get on and I think that is something that I
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: won't be alone on here, but I will confess that
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: one of my favorite documentaries of the recent era is
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: one that Rory did about her mother Ethel. It is
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a favorite of myself and my wife. So I am
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: somebody who thinks IF's done, Rory Kennedy has done a documentary,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: it is worth seeing and I invite her now to
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: talk about it. Rory, nice to see you.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Thank you Chuck for such a sweet introduction.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Well, like I said, it was, it's a look for
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: anybody that loves their political history history. That Kennedy family
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: in general doc on your mother Ethel was just it
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: was it was, it was just terrific. Thank you, And
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I know it was. It was something like that. That's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a that's a labor of love, right.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, but I'm so you know, my mother, as
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: you know, passed away about a year and a half ago,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: two years ago almost, and so it's so it holds
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: a very special place with my heart.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Well I have to I'm going to guess that you
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: feel this that you can't you still it's still surreal
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: that she's not here. Yes, yes, for many of us,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: it's still she's always been here and has been there.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: You know, it's yeah, mister every day.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about this uh documentary. And I want to
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: start with how did it get How did it come
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: to your attention?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Well, so, of co course, I had made downfall the
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: case against going about four or five years ago that
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: looked at the seven thirty seven Max crashes, and you know,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I was compelled to make that feel because I had
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: been watching in the news and initially kind of the
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: blaming of pilots. But then two planes the same make
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: had crashed within five months of each other, killing three
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: hundred and forty six people. And in the making of that,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: you know, it became very evident that Boeing knew a
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: lot about the systems and the plane that were faulty,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: and you know, ultimately, over the course of many hearings
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: and investigations, admitted fault and took responsibility for what had
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: happened on those planes. And the planes were then grounded,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and Boeing assured us and the public and government that
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: they were going to change their ways and not just
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: prioritize money over safety. But pretty soon after those planes
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: got back into the air, we started seeing a lot
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: of the same problems that had led to those crashes happening.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And you know, I was reading the news, as I
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: think so many other people were, about incident after incident
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: of engines falling off of airplanes and smoke filling cabins,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: and you know, and then of course the Alaska air incident,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: or where a window blew out of an airplane. And
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: at the same time, my friend who was a whistleblower
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: who I had known from Making Downfall, John Barnett, had
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: died while testifying against Boeing.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a strange I mean, that's how you
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: open the dock, and it is a pretty chilling way
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: to sort of introduce It certainly leads folks to believe
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: something the fairy has happened here. Do you believe that?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I believe that Boeing is responsible for John's death.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: And you know, I don't want to reveal too much
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: of what we learn in the film in terms of
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: the specificity of those circumstances and what in fact happened,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: but I do think that Boeing is responsible for his death.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: So I was doing a little research for our conversation
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: because one of the one of the theories I've had
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: about Boeing's struggles is that this is the ultimate. This
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: is what happens when capitalism gets perverted into a monopoly.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventy, if you were an airline executive
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: and you were trying to buy a new jet, you
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: had four different models from Boeing. You had a couple
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: of models by Douglas Lockheed, Convet, a Hawker, a Fokker.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: There were over a dozen different airplanes you could choose from,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: and five or six. It was a very diverse competitive
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: in industry by nineteen ninety, sort of cut in half.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Today you basically have two choices air Bus and Boeing.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: So when you look at things like quality control, and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: you look at things like cost cutting, and you know,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: when you don't have competition, you know, these are the
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: these are the things that seem to show up in
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: a business that a business without competition doesn't have to
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: fear losing business. But if you're in a competitive market,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: well then suddenly quality can matter. I mean, look, I
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that's a thirty thousand foot view from looking at this,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: but I that's what I see here, And I'm curious
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: how you tackled it.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, listen, I think there are
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of reasons that Boeing has gotten a bit sloppy, right, So,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I think the lack of competition is one of them.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I think there's other. I think that you know, you
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: can go back to the McDonald Douglas merger and how
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: that impacted the company that I think is compelling, As
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: we document in the film, the influence of kind of
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: the Jack Welch model of how to run a company
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and really focusing on shareholder profits over everything else. I
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: think also you know, has had a significant influence. I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: think there's also you know, again documented in the film,
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  Speaker 2: the lack of regulation and sort of the punch being
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: pulled out of the FAA, the Federal Aviation Administration.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Which I think it's regulatory capture.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I think that is a big part of it. I
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: think you do see you know, revolving door of people
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: who work between the FAA and Boeing.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I'm interviewing you right now in Arlington, Virginia, and I
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: remember when Boeing moved essentially its headquarters, even though they
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: don't I'm so not sure what it considers its headquarters.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Is it now Arlington versus Chicago, versus Seattle? But to
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: get this close to Washington. They seem to care more
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: about the regulation and the government contracts than anything else.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I think that's right, and it does seem
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: like and I agree that it's a bit murky as
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: to whether it's Chicago or in Arlington, but I think
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that their main people are now right outside of DC
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: T So, you know, I do think that the pushback
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: on regulatory agencies being able to do their job in
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: this instance has had a very significant influence on the
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: choices that Boeing is making internally and really not being
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: held accountable as a result. So, you know, I think
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: all of those have had significant influences on what we're
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: seeing out. You know, when you're looking and you're you're thinking, gosh,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Spelling's got a lot of things going wrong with it,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: right now, you're right, You are right. There's a lot
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: going on inside the company that is leading to a
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: lot of incidences. You know, in the world of airplane.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Flying, it feels like it's not one thing, it's like
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: ten things. Is that how you You've now tackled this
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: for multiple hours in your docs, right, do you feel
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: like there is a single source of this and it
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: created all of these problems or that it's just a
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: poor leadership led to all of these problems.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: No, I think that it's the former. I mean, I
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: think that as the film Dog Cummens, you know, you
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: really see the Jack Welch and influence. But you know,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: even though there's been a lot of factors that have
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: contributed to Boeing being where it is right now, I
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: think there are also it's not that complicated to get
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: it back on track. You know, I think you need
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the regulations, but you also you really need a CEO
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: to come in there, preferably a CEO who has an
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: engineering background and not just a financial background.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: So you know that you show you have this one
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: clip of I think it's mcnernie at a one of
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: these investor I'm guessing it's an investor conference. I don't
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: know exactly where the clip was from, where he basically
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: admits I just wanted to run a company. A company. Yeah, right,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: it was it, you know, and there's a lot Look,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of companies that are run by people
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: who just want to be a CEO. They didn't say
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I want to make or I want to make airplanes
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: or I want to make you know, spacecraft. They just
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: like I want to do quarterly reports. I guess, you know,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I want stock prices.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you know the thing is is that I
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: you know, Boeing is one of the all time great
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: corporations in American history. You know, it's a it's a
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: company I've long admired.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: So it's like ge It's like Coke, It's like these
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: foundational American companies. Right.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean part of it is not really
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: the takedown of Boeing. Like I want Boeing to thrive.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I want Boeing to do the right thing. I want
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Boeing to get on track. And it's not that hard.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Like if the CEO comes in and says we're going
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: to prioritize safety overprofits, and that just that message trickles
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: down and it means we're going to have you know,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: safety and quality managers on the floor. If anybody use
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: anything suspicious, we're going to stop the line. We're going
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: to put a pause on it. It's not that hard.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: We're going to higher quality people who know how to
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: build an airplane. We're not going to just move, you know,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: to Charleston, South Carolina, where nobody knows how to build
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: an aeroplane, but there's no unions there, and so we're
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: going to save money by not having unions. We're going
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: to stop the outsourcing. I mean, you know, for an airplane,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: when you're having parts build all over the world, and
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: then you seeking one.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Of the more amazing visuals in this dock. It was
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: so it was so I mean it just righting your
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: where you have the entire airplane being put together with
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the where the different parts were made, the wings, I
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: think we're one was South Korea, another was Australia. In
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: other words, it it was. It was quite striking. And
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: then of course you get to the oh, the parts
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: don't fit. You know, it's like getting your ikea kit
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and going oops, yeah, that's a bad to be yeah.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not like goes. It's like an airplane
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and the parts just don't fit. You know, there's like
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: an inch separation between the fuselage and the main body
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: of the plane. And you're like, well, you know, it's nothing.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: A hammer doesn't fix. Like that was like one of
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: those you're like, are you kidding me?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Like that, and then you see the guy like hammering
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: these parts to make them fit into airplanes and you'
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: and then.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: You I know, it felt like a Homer Simpson moment.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: This is how Homer Simpson might put together an airplane,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: but this didn't be how Boeing does it right.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So, you know, and what we found in making the
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: film is just is in the aftermath of John's death,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: all these whistleblowers started coming forward and reaching out to
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: me saying, you know, it's worse than what it was
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: when you made Downfall. It's worse and you have to
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: come back and tell.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Us the explanation of why it got worse. I mean,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: you know, this crisis with Boeing is arguably over a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: decade now, and it does feel as if they've just
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: been running in place. If in that.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Made well, I think that it's you know, the regulations
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: have gotten pulled back even further so and you know
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: they are there. They were not the CEOs were not
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: held criminally responsible. That case was Boeing actually had admitted
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: that it was criminally responsible, said that it would admit that,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: and then the Justice Department withdrew the case and said,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: we don't want to hold them criminally responsible. So even
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: though the judge wanted to do it and the people
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: wanted to do it and the families, but that was withdrawn.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: So I think when those kinds of decisions are being
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: made at the top, it has an influence on what
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Boeing is and who they become. And you know they
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: have to be held accountable, and right now they're not
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: being held accountable.
• 16:59
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  Speaker 1: zero seven eight six seven if you're in Louisiana. Boeing
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  Speaker 1: would argue that they're trying to make their trying to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: change their culture. Have you seen any evidence in the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: last eighteen months. Are you hearing from your sources in
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: here that that there is a change yet in Boeing
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: because obviously between DOC one and DOT two there was
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: not it got worse.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not seeing significant changes.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Now, why do you think they the board hasn't. Why
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: do you think the board didn't prioritize an engineer as
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: their leader.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think what the film shows is that
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: their priority, priority number one is making as much money
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: as possible, and so I think they're making choices to
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: support that mission.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: The you start with the Jack wels right, and there's
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: there was supposedly near close to the end of his life,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: he expressed some regret at creating the quarterly earning obsession. Right,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: there was a time that that companies, you know, this
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: idea that if you're worrying about where, if you're worrying
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: about your stock price every three months, you're not thinking
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: about long term direction of your company. You're not thinking
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: about an investment into maybe a product that might make
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense three years down the road, five
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: years down the road. That if you're constantly worried about
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: every three months, right, and that is you know, I
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: assume that's the culture you were trying to refer to
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: when you tied it back to Welch himself, that it
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: was this sort of Welsh way. And what's interesting now is,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you know, you could argue that the Welch way is
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: what led Ge down the shrinking path that it's been
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: down right, and you make a compelling case that essentially
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the Jack Welch way was destructive to both.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, I mean I think if you look, you know,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: it's not just looking at the airplanes, and you know
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: all of the problems that they're having on their airplanes,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: but if you're looking at actually their quarterly reports and
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: how the company is doing, it's losing money. You know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: even even in this last quarter, it's lost I don't
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: have the exact number at my fingertips, but it's you know, many,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: many millions of dollars in its value, I think like
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty million dollars or something. So you know,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: the company is not doing well. And then this is
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: a company that is subsidized, one of the biggest subsidized
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: companies in the history of the United States. So your
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: tax dollars are going to support Boeing, you know, through
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: our government. So and despite that, despite all the money
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: that we individuals are giving this company, you know, the
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: CEOs are doing great. There are some of the richest people.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: As you know, one of our experts points out at
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the end of the film, these are some of the
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: richest people in the history of the world, and yet
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: the company itself is continues to be in a free fall.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: You know, there was this question of a few years
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: ago that that Boeing's leadership saw the airplane business as
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: sort of its past and was trying to sort of
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: shift its focus, and that that was a contributing Some
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: have argued that that might have been a contributing factor
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: to its sort of lost leadership in the in the
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: airplane space.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Is that a fair critical Well, I mean, I think
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: the McDonald Douglas merger, where it merged with you know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: military contract, you know, military supplier, and prioritize that it
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: certainly has contributed enormously to Boeing's downfall.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. You talk about how and why basically,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: why should you care about this if you don't fly?
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: And the answer is more than a third of their
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: revenue comes from the taxpayer, doesn't it. I think it's
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: something like thirty five percent is got some form of
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: government contract or military contract.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: You're bowing right, Yeah, it's significant, But I mean I
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: think listen, I think we see these tendencies in a
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: lot of corporations. But the truth is is that a
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: lot of people fly, and even if you don't fly,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: you probably have family members who do fly, you know.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: And so part of the reason I wanted to focus
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: on Boeing itself is because I think we are so
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: many of us are incentivized for this company to be
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: safe and doing the work it needs to do to
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: ensure safety, you know, and that we kind of bank
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: on it. When we're walking through the airport and getting
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: on the airplane, we're assuming the FAA is doing its job,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: that Congress is doing its job, that Boeing is doing
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: its job. And what we show in this film is
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: that none of that's actually happening.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Look, let's crash at DCA about a year and a
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: half ago on frankly, a small American Airlines plane that
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I fly almost constantly, right because it's the one airline
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: that you can fly to sort of small regional cities, yep,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: nonstops and so planes like that all the time. And
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: it turned out this was an FA issue, And I,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: frankly still don't feel like we've gotten the full story
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: from the government, and so you know, we're in this
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: period Rory, where in this era of distrust. I don't
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: know if I can trust what the FAA is telling me.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I can trust what corporate America
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: is telling me. And so you're telling me I've got
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: to trust Boeing, I trust the FAA, and there's going
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to be plenty of people. By the way, missus podcast
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if I want to watch
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: this second one because I do want to get on
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: an airplane and I don't want to fear getting on
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: an airplane. How safe do you think it is?
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I personally would not fly a seven
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: thirty seven map.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: You go out of your way, do you look for that?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I have friends that do. They look, and they find
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: out if the plane's a MAX they change the flight.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, So I do the research, and I
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: do encourage other people to do the research. I also,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, one of the you know, compelling moments in
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: my mind in the film is the undercover footage that
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: we show inside the seven eight seven Dreamliner factory where
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: a number of people who work in that factory are asked,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: given the opportunity listen you can fly anywhere around the
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: world totally free. You can bring your family with you,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: totally free trip. You just have to fly seven eight
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: seven Dreamliner. And every single one of them says, no,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: thank you, there's zero chance I'm getting on this plane.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Why aren't you getting on this plane? Because I see
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: how it's being built. You know, these are the people
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: inside the factory who are saying there's no chance they
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: would get on a seven eight seven Dreamliner, So you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: and then on top of that, you see all sorts
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: of other evidence that they're putting. You know, they're putting
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: used parts that are have been deemed broken with red
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: marks paint all across them, saying don't use this part
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: is broken being put on the airplanes. So it's you know,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: it's concerning. So I personally, I would have avoid those
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: two planes. And I would also remind people that, and
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not I should be paid by Jet Blue, but
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not paid by Jet Blue. But Jet Blue does
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: not fly Boeing. They only fly air Bus. So you know,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: if you can fly Jet Blue.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Do you think that, I mean, you look at I
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: don't think it's a coincidence that Southwest has struggled you know,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: their whole business model is going all in on the
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Boeing seven thirty seven, and it was a you know,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: their way of efficiency was we were going to have
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: just one type of plane, so we had to train
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: only one set of mechanics and one supply a set
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: of suppliers, which you know, made sense for an airliner
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: that was trying to run as a discount airliner but
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: still have And it worked until it didn't when they
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: suddenly were stuck with a fleet that a lot of
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: people are are a little bit nervous about.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think those choices and for consumers to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: become increasingly aware of what they're flying and making those
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: choices sense apart, we don't have.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Many choices, Rory. I mean, you know, the airline industry
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: is not you know, I mean just take a look
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: even at the three major three and a half major airlines.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to call it these days, but
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: take the quote unquote the three that fly the most
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: domestic and international combined. Right your Delta, You're United, You're American.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: You know, essentially there's only you know, you've got eight
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you know, of the flights out of DC. It seems
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: like it probably a little less than that. You know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: you really only have American if you want to fly
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to the state of Florida, you really only have you
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, there's you don't have choice. It
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: is so as much as the consumer may want to
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: exercise some market friction here, the entire industry doesn't allow
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: you to.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, what I would advise is looking at older
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: models of airplanes. Honestly, which is ironic, but I think
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the older models are safer.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Well, look, Boeing has an engineer now a CEO. That's
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: a small step in the right direction, right.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is a small step in the right direction.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: So you know, we really need to see the kind
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: of choices being made on the ground and trickling down.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's a way to message that
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: they really want to prioritize safety, and I'm not seeing
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: that message trickle down to the ground.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: One of the things you point out is was the decision,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: And in hindsight, it's obvious why they wanted to build
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: this factory in South Carolina. They wanted to avoid unionization.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: They want to avoid union workers. You you you imply
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: very strongly that that led to massive U uh, why
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: sort of the prop why quality control was that a low?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Explain why the why the you think the unions a union,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: a unified workforce makes for better quality control.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Well, the unions with bowing, I mean, it's it's twofold.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: One is just the decision to leave Seattle was incentivized
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: by going to a place where there weren't unions, and
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: there had been kind of a union strike in Seattle,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: so they were mad about that. They were like, well,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: we're going to go to a place that doesn't have unions,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: but going to a new location in and of itself
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: where people didn't know how to build airplanes, you know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: and John Barnett his job was to hire people, and
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: there were just not enough people to hire who knew
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: how to build an airplane. So then they started reverting
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: to hiring people, you know, and I think he says,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: quote unquote, if they knew how to use a screwdriver,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: we started hiring them because there was nobody else left.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: You know, they were hiring people who worked out of
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: McDonald's and Burger King, et cetera. So you know, the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: quality that the knowledge of that group was limited and
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: contributed to shoddy work. But on top of that, the
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: unions itself protects the workers so that if a worker
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: complains and voices concern about safety, the union protects that person.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: So there so they feel like, okay, well.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: There's whistleblower essentially, there's whistleblower protection.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: There's whistleblower protection built into kind of the union. And
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: then the unions are also you know, their leadership is
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: on the ground and they're also have eyes watching what's happening,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: and they're also looking out for their workers. And you know,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: part of what you see in the film is these
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: workers who are building these airplanes and then the airplanes
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: crash and they feel responsible, right, so it takes a
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: very personal toll on them because they're on the front lines,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: even though it's it's because of decisions that aren't being
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: made from the top and trickling down, you're seeing the
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: toll at on them, and the unions are looking out
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: for that, and you know, as a group able to
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: convey in a unified voice what the workers are going through,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: which again creates a safety mechanism.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Is there a bus a better run company you think,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: or is it just we're just this is a Boeing problem.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: This is not just air Bus surpassing them.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: No, I think air Bus is better run. I mean,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I think there's just that there. They are more safety
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: focused and that's more built into the fabric of the company.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: How much of that is the you know, sort of
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: the frankly just a bit more of a robust regulatory
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: process in.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Europe, I think that has a lot to do with it.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's an obviously and a more uniformed union
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: set of union rules on the continent.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, Yeah, I think there's a greater investment in
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: public safety and public interest right now. I mean, you know,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: historically we as a country, you know, there's been different
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: times in our history where that has had more of
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: a focus, and I would say right now it's a
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: very low priority.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: So imagine you're the CEO of Delta air Lines. These days,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: they kind of I think they're they're sort of ahead
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: in the customer service race these days. Yes, if you
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: talk to frequent travelers who use all three of the yeah,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the big majors, I know, I feel that way. You're like,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I love Delta. Yeah, You're like, I get free Wi
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Fi and do this. You know, why isn't it that
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: way at other airlines?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: But if you're Delta and you're no good American company
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and you don't want to buy air Bus and you
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: don't trust Boeing, where would you go.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: To a bus?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Right? I mean this is the this this goes back
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: to sort of where I can I mean, how do
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you the best way to punish Boeing is to have
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: them lose business and they because that's the incentive to
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: improve their product. But if there's no competition, what is
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: their incentive to improve?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean there is Airbus, and you can fly Airbus,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: so I think that you know, at least there's somebody
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: else standing and then you know, I do think that
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: it is helpful for people to write letters to Boeing
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: and to their government officials saying that they need to
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: hold Boeing responsible, that they need to get, you know,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: give the FAA the tools that it needs to enforce
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: the laws and the regulations. And I think we're in
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: a position this fall to make smart choices in terms
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: of who's going to be in Congress and who's going
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: to be in the Senate to enforce the regulations more
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: readily than the folks who are in there now. Dad said,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I do think this is a bipartisan issue. And you know,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: you see in the film Senator Halley, who is who
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: really goes after Calhoun very forcefully in terms of, you know,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: holding him at least accountable in a hearing. Right, So
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: that's meaningful, But then you have to follow that up with, Okay,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: how are we going to actually create more enforceable laws
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: and regulations so that they are significant shifts that actually happen.
• 35:50
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  Speaker 1: you look at the Trump administration and he is an
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: unabashed cheerleader of American companies. That's the most generous way
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to talk about it when it comes, you know. And
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: he'll when he goes to China and like, I'm trying
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: to get them to buy Boeing planes, right, He'll say
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: these things. He also put a Boeing former Boeing executive
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: as Defense Secretary in his first term. I mean it
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: is has and we go back to I mean, is
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: this administration going to regulate Boeing the way it needs
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: to be regulated?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: We are not seeing that happen that has not happened today.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: And I think you see in the film, you know,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: you see the families meeting with the Department of Families
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: of victims whose family members had died in the seven
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: thirty seven Max crash, who are continuing, you know, they're
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: after to hold Bowing responsible, criminally responsible. They're meeting with
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: the Department of Justice, They're meeting with Boeing, and the
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Department of Justice and Boeing are standing or sitting on
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: one end of the table and the families are on
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: the other right, and they're talking about how when they
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: speak up, there's just a complete dismissiveness of them, right. So,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: you know, you feel the way these policies and these choices,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: these government choices trickle down into real people's lives and
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: how it impacts them. You know, these families who lost children,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: who lost family members are so heartbreaking and horrible, and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: that it's five six years later now and they're still
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: having to fight this fight and they're still coming up
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: against blockades, right, and it shifts. You know, there's different
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: administrations that have been more able and collaborative with the
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: families and fighting for regulations than others. So I think
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: it's important to look at that because you know, these
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: choices have an impact on the safety of the airplanes
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: that we and our children and our families get on.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: You know what's really frustrating about this story, Rory and
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I don't is how similar it feels to so many
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: of our other stories at the moment, meaning that ultimately
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: our government watchdogs aren't being watchdogs anymore. Yes, and you know,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: we could sit here and say this is corporate greed,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: but guess what, There's always going to be corporate greed, right.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: That is that is sort of in some ways, the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: whole point of regulation is to create incentive structures to
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: at least mitigate it or minimize it. You know, I'm
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: one of those who doesn't believe we have any you know,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: we're not going to elect saints. You know, there are
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: most people aren't saints. You just give them incentives so
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: that being a saint is better than it pays better
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: than being a sinner. And this feels like a pattern
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: of yet another industry where Congress looked the other way.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Perhaps it was because they were financially captured, right, we
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: could probably make a huge connection on political donations. You know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: there's there's certainly that we've got all those government contracts,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: and that it was this is another case of just
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: government not doing its job and the public not sure
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: where to turn. Right. If government's not going to be
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: on their side in this, then who is.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the beauty of our election cycle. So I
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: think that, you know, I'm seeing this kind of concerning
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: pattern right now, and we have an opportunity to make
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: some choices this fall that could could you know, put
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: people in place who are more invested in the public
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: interest and you know, listen, I mean, I think all
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: of us are invested in corporations being successful and making
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: money and employing our I.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Would say I'm a free market capitalist, but emphasis on
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: free market, you know, the monopolies don't do us any good.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So I think that's true. And I think
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: there's other things that are true with the case of
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Boeing that could just make it so that we all
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: feel and are safer when we get on that airplane
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and it goes up to thirty thousand feet. You know.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: One of the moments in the film, too, is John
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: John Barnett talking about one of his complaints, which going dismissed,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: was that the oxygen masks on the seven seven, like
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: fifteen percent of them didn't work when he did some
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: test on them, and then he ordered for more of
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: them to be tested and found that, in fact, twenty
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: five percent of them didn't work. And then when we
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: saw when the Alaska air blew out, the window blew out,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: that the mask came down and many of them didn't work, right,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: So his complaint. And then you see like people trying
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: to put their oxygen masks on and they don't work
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: and they can't breathe, you know, And they were at
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: ten thousand feet and they were able to get down
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: to like an oxygen level pretty quickly. But imagine that
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: having happening at thirty thousand feet.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: You have.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Twenty seconds to put the oxygen mask on before it
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: starts causing potential brain injury and potential death. And like
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: these oxygen masks aren't working, Like what's.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: It just goes back to what do the regulators do
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: if they're not testing that? Right? Like that's the and
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: it's again the airplane. Right, this is the most regulated
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: thing we supposedly do, right, you know, government decides whether
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you can get on that plane, Government decides if that
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: plane can park in your city. Government, Right, like we
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: have to rely on the government to make the airline.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: This is not anything that's in our control. That's what
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: makes this so scary rory, is that we have so
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: little control, and as human beings, if we don't have
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: control of something, then we're more likely to say, you
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: know what, we're out.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, but we do have some control because
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: there are choices you can make to not fly boeing
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: that hurts up financially. There's also choices you can make
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: to write letters, and there's also choices you can make
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: in electing officials who will but who believe in corporate success,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: and also regulating them to do to make sure they're
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: looking out for public safety.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Before I let you go, how are you feeling about
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: politics these days in general? And how much more complicated
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: has it become because of how complicated it is now
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: that you have a sibling in on the other side.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it's you know, it's it's a
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: bit heart wrenching out there right now. I mean, I
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: think that across across the board. I think that you know,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: this administration is making choices that are really hurting a
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: lot of people and making their lives increasingly difficult and
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: miserable and and a lot of people are are sick
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: and suffering as a result. So, you know, for me
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: and growing up in a family who has so believed
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: in the power of government to help people and to
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: improve people's lives, it's it's pretty heart wrenching to watch.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Do you think your brother's heart's in the right place
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: or do you think he's totally lost his way?
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I I'd rather not get into much about Bobby,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: but I do think that you know, it's similar with Boeing,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Like you want you want engineers who are running Boeing, right,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: you want people who know how to make an airplane
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: to run the company that makes aeroplanes. And it's similarly,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I think if you're you know, when you're putting somebody
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in a position to run healthcare for this country, you
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: want somebody who is a doctor, who has a history
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: in public policy, who knows how to run, you know,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: a multi multi billion dollar institution with thousands of employees,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: and who you know is making decisions based on science.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: What's next? Are you going to stick with Boeing? Or
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: you got what you got? Any you know, you got
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: a couple other docks percolating.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you for asking, Chuck. I've got a couple other
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: docs percolating, and I'm not in a position to talk
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: about them right now, but I'm excited to come back
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: onto the Chuck Dot Todd Show and talk about them
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: when they're done.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Do you are you? I'm just curious
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: how you work. Are you somebody that is one project
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: twenty four to seven or are you three or four projects? Uh?
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Sort of simultaneously as and then as one gets going,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: then you sort of gravitate.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Usually like one or two projects at a time.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Three three is a little too much for me. I
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: did three like in the last year and a half,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: and that was that threw the balance off. But I too,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: especially if they're on different timeframes that I can handle.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: And I luckily work with a really fantastic group of people,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: including my husband Mark Bailey, who's producer and writer on this,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: and we have a fantastic team who works with us
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: and supports our efforts.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited that you worked with my friends at
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: d C Docks. I mean, I'm a huge you know,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I love what they do. When I was at Meet
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: the Press, we had our own film festival. We worked
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: very closely with Jamie and Shore and everything that she
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: did with d C Docs. I was just excited to
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: see you, you know, and hopefully you'll deabut your next
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: one with them as well. Yeah.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: No, I love them, and that's probably a really good
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: film to premiere in Washington, d C.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, Yes it was. I might argue maybe we could
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: premiere it in Arlington, Virginia. I can tell you a
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: studio really really close to a certain headquarters.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe we could project something on the outside of a
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: building there.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know. By the way, did you ever hear
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: from many executives directly after the first one?
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Well, funnily enough, I did run into an executive. I
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: was in Hyanna Sport a couple of years ago and
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: ran into my cousin Teddy, who anyway, we were on
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: like a boat together coming in, and he was like, Oh,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: you should meet so and so. She's a top executive
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: at Boeing, and you know, he was very happy to
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: tell her that I had made Downfall. And she was
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: interesting because she had seen Downfall and said that they
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: had done a private screening at Boeing with like the
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: top two hundred executives.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: What that's a win Rory.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was something. And she said, you know,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: none of us could find any facts that we're incorrect
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: in that film, and you know we paid attention to it.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: But anyway, I guess they didn't pay attention to it
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: for that long.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: August nineteenth Netflix, I don't have to tell people where
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: to find Netflix. I hope these days the first one
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: with downfall, this is free.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Fall, free fall, I're reckoning for Boing.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Absolutely congratulations, thanks for coming up. It was great.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Thanks Chuck,