Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Publicity & Messaging Specialist - PollyAnna Brown

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Publicity & Messaging Specialist - PollyAnna Brown · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: There is a great quote that states, if you don't know what you want to achieve in your presentation, your audience never will.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: That specific quote was by renowned author Harvey Diamond, but it is something to ponder in a world where mass media and presentation is becoming more vast.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Joining me on the podcast today is a publicity and messaging specialist, as well as ghostwriter Pollyanna Brown.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about navigating this modern world of communication, getting your message out, and personalizing it so your audience can relate to you and build their own story off of yours.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, I have the pleasure of speaking with today Pollyanna Brown, publicity specialist.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's a journalist and a ghostwriter.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I stole all of that from your bio on Facebook because I'm unoriginal as hell.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: How the hell are you doing today?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So where are you calling in from right now?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm in Colorado right now.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is it unseasonably cool, unseasonably warm?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's the weather like?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Unseasonably cool.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: It has been raining almost every day since April.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what is going on?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: It has been literal hoodie weather all summer.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I see, I don't hate that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like you feel like you've moved to the Pacific Northwest almost.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's funny because I moved away from the Pacific Northwest so that it wouldn't be gloomy all the time.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, hey, give me my blue skies back.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the type of person that I can only tolerate summer until the 4th of July.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the 5th of July, I start prepping for Halloween because that's my personality.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I am the Clark Griswold in real life.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I go all out with the Halloween decorations and with the Christmas decorations.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm ready for fall.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I it can cool down anytime now.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in Lincoln, Nebraska, and it's been as hot as can be, except the past couple of days.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that because literally the day after Independence Day, I was like, okay, can I start doing Christmas now?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I wanted to watch Christmas movies.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Christmas in July is a thing, right?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just tune into the Hallmark channel.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they usually run those movies about that time.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So without any further ado, why don't you introduce yourself and let's kind of start getting into your origin story and what it is that you do.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I got into what I do completely by accident and fumble, which is amazing.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I started off life completely directed by other people.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um my mom put me into a beauty contest when I was six months old.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Shockingly enough, I won.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my aunt told me all the time it's because I smiled so much.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that tracks.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So after that, I won a uh modeling contract when I won the contest.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I started doing modeling as a kid.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I did things for little types and some other places, and that was up until I was about three or four.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got into acting and singing.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the whole first 25 years of my life.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just was always performing or training or doing something.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this big creative bug within me.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So what nobody knew was at nighttime, I would be underneath my covers, either reading books or writing stories.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I have journal after journal after journal filled with poems, short stories.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Every character was named Sarah for some reason.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was completely ridiculous.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I it was like this big secret that I had that I kept for no good reason, no good reason at all.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, needless to say, when I was 25 and I decided to retire from performing, everyone was shocked.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: No one saw that coming.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went in to get my master's degree.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And originally I was gonna go for creative writing.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom was like, hey, why don't you go for psychology in case you decide to go back for acting?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, fair enough.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in my psychology program, and my professor goes, Polly, your papers are really good.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You should write articles.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, that's a good idea.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what I did was that night I took my paper and I just started pitching outlets all over the world.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that had to do with that topic.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so within 90 days, I was published in four continents around the world.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I had no idea it was supposed to be hard, none whatsoever.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you for being naive and young and and all the things.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back and I was really excited.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I told my professor, and she laughs at me.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, Polly, I meant academic journals.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, fantastic.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, I guess I kind of stepped into a career right there.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I took that and really ran with it.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I continued on for my second master's degree in creative writing.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole time I've been a journalist.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So since then, I have uh had columns in places all over the world.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when I started my business, I just started with a storytelling aspect and really teaching entrepreneurs how to tell compelling stories, and especially because I have been very outspoken about being anti-brand story and not as in you shouldn't have one, but just as in that should not be the only story that you're telling.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so that rolled into people kept asking me, how do I get media attention?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do I get this for my business?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I got into business not having anything behind me other than a lifetime of experience and story.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: No one knew who I was.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I had all this media behind me.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So people immediately trusted me because I had established authority through the media.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so then they started asking me for that.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, huh?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is a service, isn't it?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And here we are.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Phenomenal, phenomenal.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was that turning point for you right before you turned 25 to where you decided that maybe performing arts wasn't for you anymore?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there are two types of actors.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as a musician, you will probably understand this.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: There are the people who fake it and the people who feel it, right?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was the latter.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was a feeler.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I was in acting school, I went to a really prestigious acting academy in New York.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I had the most amazing professors, and my professor pulled me aside one day, and she said, you know, you really could be the next Kate Winslet.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, What?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was her, right?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a little too much praise, too fast.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then she said to me, You're a really good girl next door and a really good victim.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, that's really hard.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, I kept getting scripts that were along those lines.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I've always had the my foot in the overachiever space.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna go and go as hard as I can and as far as I can.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm always pushing my edges.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that with acting, and I did not have the emotional intelligence and the emotional uh adaptability back then to rein it back in.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I stay in that state and I would stay in it for weeks or months, and it was just too much for me.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I know I'm meant to tell stories.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I'm supposed to shape the world with stories in some way, but this doesn't feel right anymore.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't fun anymore, this isn't something that I want to contribute to in this way.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have so much value for it, but I was tearing myself apart and losing my own sense of self in order to perform for other people.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that just wasn't in alignment anymore.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh it's almost like throughout the course of the story, you talked about somebody who fakes it and somebody who feels it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: It almost felt like you throughout the course of this and your self-actualization that you felt yourself slipping into the latter category, and you just your heart wasn't in it any longer because of that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a lot of self-awareness to kind of be able to step away and recognize those things about yourself.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what's I find even more ironic is when you were talking about how you apply this to your business now, there's a spirit of authenticity whenever you do remove the brand and you like I hate to say this in a roundabout way, you become your own brand, you know, as a result.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So do you see the cross connection between that life trajectory and then what happened afterwards?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I would not be where I am now had I not had that experience.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it serves me in so many different ways.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: The first is that I understand what it is to hold a really deep emotional wealth.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I can stand in that with someone and hold their hand without taking it on.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned that part.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is, I've learned such a deep sense of empathy that I can hear someone's story and feel where it's hard and feel where the emotional cracks are and actually show up to support them and say, hey, instead of letting someone else tell your story, let's control the narrative so that way you are in an empowered state when you're sharing it.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't believe in sharing from the wound.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I believe in sharing from the scar.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's a whole lot of things that go into that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But my experience in performance was so related to all of the good things that I've experienced and all of the success that I've had, even just in talking.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: What most people don't know is I'm introverted, I'm shy, and I'm socially awkward AF.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you never know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that applies to more creative people than what people realize.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, when they feel like a celebrity is being rude to them, it's like they just might not know how to socialize outside of the scope of performing.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a world of service, and I'm so grateful that I did it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also grateful that I didn't hate it when I left.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was the big thing.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I could see that this wasn't the life that I wanted.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was different than what I had fantasized about.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want to emotionally mutilate myself every day to make a living that wasn't in alignment for me.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was my choice.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And to make that choice was really challenging.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it taught me that I could do hard things because that did not go over well.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was the whole life that everyone was wrapped up in.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't just break my own identity in making that choice.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I broke everyone else's vision of who I was when I made that choice.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you cross a lot of paths whenever you're in that performance realm and your whole social life is built around it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you often wonder, and I can speak on my own uh behalf here, you often wonder if the minute you walk away, if what's going to end, and are you alone?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are you on an island after you walk away from something like this?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what's the next chapter of your story going to be?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to be walking through, you know, this journey completely by yourself, completely isolated because everything you knew socially is back in performance?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting because I still have friends from my acting days now.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I still have professors that I'm connected with.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been this amazing amalgamation of lives, but there was definitely a period where I had to remake me and I had to rediscover me.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really interesting because I found that my core hadn't changed.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a storyteller, like I'm a storyteller, like I'm a storyteller.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: That is me.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: How I express that, how I share that with the world, that is what's malleable and different and can express in different ways throughout my life.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I get this all too well.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know when I walked away from music, my last few years in it, I was more focused on the business aspects on it as opposed to the performance side of it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I know when I walked away from it, I almost felt like a fraud.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, am I doing, am I going through the motions because I'm playing into a trend?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm playing essentially playing into a character that I've created for myself.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's so relatable because I look at it as, again, a point of contrast between being your genuine self and being the person that you've fabricated because of your creative endeavors.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I would even say that that person that you fabricated is a fraction of self.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's truth and authenticity behind that person, but it's the self that you're shedding.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's the body you're burying, it's the person you're leaving behind and saying, I love you, your time is over.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for all that you've done, and I'm ready to move on.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a whole different life.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we are shedding that skin and we are growing out of it, it doesn't feel right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that feeling propels so much change.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, for sure.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about your business specifically.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't we kind of get into the brass tacks about that?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, brass tacks, I handle everything words and story for brands.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I focus on brand elevation.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so the way that we do that is we are really crafting solid messaging that speaks direct to the audience in a way that the audience can receive it, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so, like when you're writing a story or telling a story or performing for the audience.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: You show up in the genre they like and that they consume and that they understand in order to give them an experience that helps them to grow, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we do that on the messaging side.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then that propels into media.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the media is amazing.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a really great way to get that message in front of thousands, if not millions, of ideal clients all at once that you literally could not reach with ads in the same spend.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not even comparable.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're getting in front of the right people and kind of like if if you're familiar with affiliates, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and joining up with someone who has your audience and they put you in front of them.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing, it's just a media outlet.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of paying affiliate fees, they usually pay you, which is nice.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so instead of that, you're also borrowing the influence of the media outlet.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're building your own brand and elevating it to new levels by getting in front of them in that way.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we do that both as done for you, and we also teach people how to do it and build it into their business.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the ghostwriting side of things is just the same thing, brand elevation.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: When you have a well-written book, not just a book, not just, you know, anything thrown together.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am not someone who advocates for things thrown together in 90 days and putting it out.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you have a well-crafted book and you have that as part of your messaging and part of your media, all of that comes together to create an incredible content ecosystem of elevation for your brand.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: What are the typical outlets that you pursue as far as media goes if you're working with a client?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I do everything custom.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't come in with any idea on, you know, where I'm gonna put someone or anything like that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: What I do is I do target market research for them.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I look at their audience and where their audience is showing up.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at what aligns with their brand and their brand values.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also looking at engagement.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I custom hand pick all of the outlets that we go after instead of having like this list of places to go to.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I found is that when we're really intentional, that intention thread goes through everything and the audience feels it and they respond really strongly.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we are a I hate to say this, but we're we are an attention deficit driven society.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're always looking for the next big new shiny thing.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, both of us just joined Threads this last week.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: It'll probably be two weeks old by the time uh this podcast drops.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, as far as social media goes, how do you see that evolving?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you see that also elevating brands in tandem with that?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love social media from the standpoint of you can reach so many people and you have a platform that you don't have to pay for.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's fantastic.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also fantastic from the stance of you get to control the narrative of what you put out, right?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do think what we're gonna see in as far as trends is a higher state of transparency.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think that's gonna come from connection, actually.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I wish it would, but I don't think that's what it's gonna be.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's more along the lines of it is becoming impossible to separate pieces of your life, right?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a public presence, you pretty much have a public presence now.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we're seeing is a growth in everyday celebrities that are being created.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes with all of the things along with it, people poking and prodding into your life and things like that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what we're going to see a lot of is people being proactive about what they share, how they share it, and becoming more intentional with how they show up and the stories that they're telling and not thinking about it as much as, you know, it doesn't matter.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just on the internet, it's just for a few people, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we're gonna see is people saying, I'm putting this out, it can live forever.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I may not be able to get rid of it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And at some point, someone important may see it.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of my favorite stories was there was this man who did YouTube videos, and he consistently had four people watching his videos, and one of them was either his mother or his grandmother.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: One of the other four people over the time that he was doing it was Oprah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 20:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right, absolutely crazy.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so she eventually reached out to him, and she was a huge proponent in propelling his career forward.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it does not matter.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's another thing of what we're seeing.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: While we are seeing more views, I think we're realizing that views don't matter as much as engagement.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what we're building is ecosystems of engagement.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that along with that, we are really prioritizing quality of audience over quantity of audience and realizing that we are way more connected than we think we are.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I always use the movie Forest Gump as a frame of reference.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I talk about my time in the music industry, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I was living Forest Gump.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: You have no idea how many people's shoulders I brushed past and didn't even realize that.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I have a lot of MMA stars on my podcast, and I realize how small that world is.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're starting to learn that through the online space of how interconnected people really are.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: There is a such thing as a six degrees of Kevin Bacon, but there's also a six degrees of Polly Brown and a six degrees of Michael Clark as well.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's it's crazy when you see it unfold in real time, right?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's absolutely crazy.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the interesting part is when we find fresh pockets.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then right.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I think we experienced with threads uh this past week was an influx of new people that we went, oh, and those people are all connected to other people that we know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, how did we not know each other?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: How have you not been in my sphere?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had a call with someone that I met on threads just a couple of days ago.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, how long have you been in business?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do I not know your name?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very confused right now.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're gonna see more and more of that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the other thing, too, is I think that audiences are going to demand from social media platforms that their algorithms allow them to reach new, fresh people.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you dropped that because I I've made the argument the past few days, everybody's posting on threads about how threads is the Twitter killer.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily see it as that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think the Twitter audience is gonna exist on Twitter, whether threads is there or not.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: What I really think the social media platform that's going to hurt from threads is actually probably gonna be TikTok.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: As silly as this sounds, I have a theory on this.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And my theory is because threads is derived from Instagram, you're gonna have cross-promotional opportunities between the two platforms.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Instagram has already been working their platform to mimic TikTok to a certain extent.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing that TikTok does better is that algorithm that you talked about.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because you look at every other social media platform, every other social media platform is driven by advertisers where TikTok is driven by users.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if threads can hold to their current algorithm, it is going to be successful.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: If it falls into the same trap as Facebook, Twitter, and all the other social media platforms, it will fail immensely.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, rant over.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I gotta add to that though.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, since the night threads went live, my views on TikTok went way up significantly.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: So almost by double.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a big part of it is a lot of people are over on threads because it's new, it's shiny, it's exciting, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like so it's it's has that addictive factor to it.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing that I think TikTok does really well, though, is TikTok has an incredible editing process.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And ever since interfacing with Cap Cut, brilliant move, brilliant, brilliant move, because I cannot stand the IG editor at all.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Me neither.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: I won't touch it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, this is bad.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is bad.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really powerful thing because it's built for creatives like you and I to actually express and showcase, and it brings out those sides of us.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I will be the first to say, you will see my performer come out on my TikTok all day, every day.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's fun in that way.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't I don't think TikTok's gonna go anywhere.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's only gonna continue to go.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: However, I think they're gonna double down on their algorithm and push videos out more.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do too.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do too.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly where I was gonna go.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you say that you've noticed your views have doubled, how much of it is because you're on threads and how much of it is because TikTok realizes they're like, oh shit, we got to fix our platform a little bit and we got to get more engagement happening with because I had the same exact thing.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I posted a video last night and it was like my first that I'm usually really good about posting one video a day every day.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I posted a video last night, it was like my first in a week.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've had personal stuff going on, and all of a sudden I got like hits on it almost immediately, and I'm like, it normally doesn't work like this.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it does not.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I had the same exact thing.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's been happening literally since that night because the first thing I did is I went over and I made a video about who is up late past their bedtime, like talking on threads, right?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Me, who else?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And ever since then, ever since that video, it has been pushed out really fast and it has been pushed out wide.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so what's happening is I'm getting more friend requests, which are great.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting more engagement, which is great.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that before that, TikTok got really comfortable where they were.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they just went, oh crap.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're getting back to that original space that we fell in love with them for to re-engage.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I think that's a point of excitement that everybody had with Threads is, and not a lot of people have made this comparison that TikTok really found the rhythm in peak COVID time in 2020.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And threads kind of has a similar sense of excitement as everybody's discovering it, you know, everybody's getting engaged with it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have you noticed things starting to level out one weekend?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it already has like now I'm only seeing the same people in my threads, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: In that feed.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, hey, where are my new people?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's already losing the factor that made it so incredible and so exciting.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this is what any social media app has to struggle with is once you establish who you want, it's going to show you those people instead of showing you people like those people.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a balance there that needs to happen because what's not exciting is the echo chamber that we tend to create in our social media worlds, right?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: We really like the fresh and the new, and we always want to be expanding and growing.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're finding is that social media algorithms keep us stagnant, and that's not gonna work for us anymore.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is so funny.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: You and I are on the same exact page with this.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have a friend, um, he's actually a local writer uh from Omaha, Nebraska, and he and I had a debate about that.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: He did not like the crazy algorithm of threads at first.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I only want to see stuff from people I follow.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I think this is exciting.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: You want to get in there while it's all wild and crazy people you don't know, and establish your presence as you know, a founder of the app or, you know, one of the early creators of the app, because you're gonna grow your audience so much faster.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you, I made relationships back when Periscope was new and Blab was still a thing.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I still have a lot of those relationships to this day.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And those relationships have grown because all of us went all in on our businesses at that time and grew really, really fast.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've kept that same level of enthusiasm and excitement.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a certain piece to that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one of the reasons why I love media so much is when you cannot get a social media algorithm to give you new people, you have to trick the algorithm.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you get media attention, you're getting new targeted people who are the exact people you need, you're infusing them into your platform and then saying, Hey, I want more people like this.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, show me these people.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that can help keep things fresh.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: The problem that we're having right now is that just the social media algorithm without any external help is going to create that echo chamber effect that drives us baddie.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: A trick that I do, and yes, I am going to unveil some Mike Clark secrets here, is on my TikTok account, I will occasionally switch from a business profile to a personal profile and back based on what my algorithm's being fed, because my algorithms are two totally different things, whether I'm in business mode or if I'm on personal account mode.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really easy to do.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a click of a button.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: They make it really easy to switch back and forth, which I really like.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have not done the switch back and forth, but I'm super curious as to what all those stats look like because that's fascinating.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Being a male, I know when I'm on a personal account, all of a sudden I will get fed thirst trap after thirst trap, but then I switch to a business account and it's engaging and meaningful content.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's two totally different things.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very interesting in trying to build my brand presence as a podcaster, ex-musician.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, it's really curious.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I suggest everybody try it.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody that's trying to like establish a presence in that regard.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's great advice.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: In regard to all of this, how important is it to differentiate your messaging between the different platforms if you want to cultivate engagement?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love this question.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever asked me this.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so here's the deal: different people on different platforms like to consume differently.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that the content is necessarily different, it's just packaged differently.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So think about it like it's the same present, but you use different wrapping paper, right?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So on TikTok, I'm a little sassier than normal.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little funnier than normal.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I have the ability to use a lot of that humor to leverage some serious topics, you know, and and to talk about things differently.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you get me on uh Facebook, it's gonna be a little more serious.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that process is really, really fun.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so with all of that, it's really how do they consume, right?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't go to Wendy's to get McDonald's french fries, right?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's no, when you want McDonald's french fries, you could have the best French fries in the world in front of you, and nothing will do but McDonald's french fries.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's very much so the same with how content is given.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: People are on platforms because they like the delivery.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to master connecting with people, you have to honor the delivery they demand.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that it makes perfect sense.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: It makes perfect sense, and you can kind of see that in in patterns, like and how things are carried out on each platform.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I I again will say a lot of my videos are very similar on Instagram as they are on TikTok.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you go to Twitter and yeah, I hate to, I'm not gonna run Twitter down, but I'm gonna say it is a dumpster fire cesspool right now.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I logged back into it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, all I saw was negativity and political stuff, and I don't engage with either accounts, you know.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: As a podcaster, I have two rules, two things I won't read, I won't talk about on the podcast is I won't talk about religion, I won't talk about politics because I believe you are an individual, so is everybody else.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: We can have differences of opinion and still be friends at the end of the day.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why Twitter's not a platform for me.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I go over to Threads and it has and it's a similar text-driven thing, and it's been nothing but upbeat, positive stuff.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm able to just like throw a quip out there and get you know a bunch of likes in in uh you know just a second.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it it really is.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, each platform has its own unique algorithm, and you have to play to that.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and beyond the algorithm, which I think is really important, each platform it creates a magnetism of a certain type of person.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so what happens is, and I'm sure you've experienced this too, where different parts of my personality will come out on different platforms, right?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook, because I use long form text there, I get deep, right?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we get a little serious.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so one time I reposted one of my um funnier TikTok videos on Facebook, and everyone was like, I didn't know you were funny.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was super funny.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you miss this?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And right, it was a different thing because it is a different kind of vibe.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so it has the ability when you differentiate your platforms, you have the ability to be more of yourself in more places.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what I love about threads, what I find really exciting is it's everyone that rejected the negativity of Twitter and came over here and said, we want this place to be text driven, but we want it to be a place where one, we don't have to show up as hot people every day.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's fantastic.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing was we want it to be a place where we're building each other up, right?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: We want a place where we don't have to worry about trolls all the time.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And Twitter is one of the worst offenders when it comes to that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And especially because it forces short responses, which already come across more terse and a little tone-deaf.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it just creates a really bad space and bad vibe.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But there are certain personalities that are really attracted to that and really love it.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not one of those, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so threads for me is like, oh, happy place.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go check this out.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's bake cookies together and do stuff that sounds fun.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I really think that what each platform allows you to do is to explore the expansion of your expression and really share yourself in ways with the audience that they want to experience you through in ways that feel authentic.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when it stops feeling authentic is when you really need to consider the platform or the messaging.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the interest of cautious optimism, how long do you think it's gonna last?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: How long do you think the positivity is gonna last?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know because we know, we know that a dark side will come, right?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we know that the storm cloud is on the way.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: We know that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that the biggest thing we're going to see is how do people who love this space protect it?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when trolls are allowed to exist and just be there, it fuels that for people and it creates that anxiety.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: However, if it allows us to protect each other and be there for each other, then I think we're gonna see a lot less of that.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think what we're coming into is a sense of um how do people say no to trolling and online bullying?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And how does that happen on social?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think the lack of hashtags and the lacked lack of direct messaging is actually working in favor of threads right now because you're not painting targets on backs with the hashtagging.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's bad for branding.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that if you want to like, if I want to go look on MMA content, I can't click on an MMA hashtag and see all of that.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's bad in that aspect.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: But again, on the other side of the coin, I think it's good because it's not directing people to people they disagree with.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I do I think these things are coming.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of when.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and just like you said, it's it it will have an inevitable dark side.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So shifting gears a little bit, what is a project that you're currently working on that you're really excited about?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's so hard to pick like just one because I am so fortunate.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am so fortunate that I get to work with so many amazing people that have incredible stories to tell.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that I get to be the one to help them is like beyond me.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think the one that's the most fun that I get to share because I got permission.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I work under NDAs with most of my clients, but this one has waived this part of theirs for me to share.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, two weeks ago, one of my clients went live with a story, and he has an incredible story.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: He went from homeless to making$17,000 a month as a copywriter with direct mail.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely incredible.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: And this kid is not even 30 yet, right?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, dude, dude.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: So fell in love with his story, and I always explain it like this.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: He came to me with a great story, great genius, and a bad attitude.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: He and I were friends beforehand, and he 100% did not believe in what I did at all.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: And he just kept seeing me get these wins for people.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so he was curious and he was like, Well, I have extra money now.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just throw something at it.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until he started doing target market research that things changed for him because he was putting out a new product and he was interviewing his current market to see if they would buy it.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: They all said no.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Well, why?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: So he decided to do a test.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, So if I was featured in Business Insider, would you buy it then?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they went, Well, yeah.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, huh?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: So confused.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, well, yeah, of course.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so he realized that there is something to this influence that he's not getting, it's not clicking for him.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he still didn't believe it then, but he was like, Okay, I know that I believe my data because my data is what always, you know, steers me toward my money.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it was one of the first outlets that we went after.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where his uh article got picked up was Business Insider.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it went live, yeah, it went live two weeks ago.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And as of this morning, he called me and he was like, So we're up to 27 calls booked.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he has been syndicated in over eight platforms.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: He just got done with a radio show that then um is referring him to another radio show.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And beyond that, he's already signed one new consulting client, two coaching clients, and that's not including all of the people hitting him up in DMs and emails for calls that he refuses to take.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: To which I said, Hey, stop messing up our stats, take the calls.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, absolutely.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it sounds like what you did for him was basically advised him into caffeinating herd mentality to a certain extent.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, if you know that people are gonna react differently based on how you present yourself, then present yourself the way that you know they're they're gonna react to.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's partially that.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the other part that I find really profound is he gave them hope.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: While establishing his expertise and just being himself, there was not a single picture of him in a suit on that article.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: As an we had words about that, actually.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was all photos of him that he would not have thought would brought him business.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was not positioned in a way that he thought would have brought him business.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And to have that surprise, because it's not just people signing up for calls, it's companies reaching out, right?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I like to tell people is when it comes to sharing your story and it comes to sharing your expertise, it is not a sales letter in the traditional sense, right?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: We do it through connection and we do it in a multi-layered approach.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that it worked was just so seamless.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I know there are so many parts to his story that we didn't get to express yet, that I'm just chomping at the bit to get to.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, it's really exciting to take someone from I don't believe in it, to, oh my God, my phone won't stop ringing.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: And literally called me this morning.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, it won't stop.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: It won't stop.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I said, This is why you hired me.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, make it stop.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, you're welcome.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Goodbye.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: There is an overarching you know, point that we've talked about this whole time, and I I've mentioned it a few times.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's that spirit of authenticity.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think consumers gravitate to that more now than they ever had.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it is because of social media, maybe it is uh based on the amount of reality TV that we consume and how popular that is.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it is, you know, all these different methodologies that we didn't have 15, 20 years ago to communicate that we do have now.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, in light of all of that, what is your short term goal?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: I would say one year from now, and then your long term goal five years from now.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, for me, there are several books that I'm working on.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That I want to get agented, represented, and sold.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the first thing.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: So within a year, that would be my goal.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Within five, I want to build at least 10 people up to massive eight-figure brands that have the books, that have the media, that have everything going, and in that process move into a space where more people are inside of courses and programs that I have putting this into their business because I can't do it for everybody as much as I want to.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do it for everybody.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And having these superpowers, learning how to do it the right way, learning how to do it from connection, from authenticity, from who you are, owning that next level self and learning how to use these things to pivot when you need to.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is one of the most powerful things any brand can have.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want this to get to people because the truth is in my industry, there is so much misinformation.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is so horrendous that it bothers me to no end.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I want people to have quality information that they can utilize to grow in an integrous way that they can stand behind.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Perfectly well said.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my big question is as I said one year, I said five years.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: In the world of business, everything is kind of on a seven-year cycle.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime you make an investment, you know, they say if you haven't turned it within seven years, it's time to get out of that investment and make your next investment.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Could you see yourself being the figurehead of your own mass media company within seven years?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is such a good no, you're good.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: No one's asked me these questions.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want to just snap for that.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I could see it as a possibility, yes.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that there is, because I come from a journalistic and an entertainment background, I so founded in journalistic and entertainment ethics on how we present story and how we show up and how we do it the right way, that I would love to help people in that way in putting good information out there and putting good experts out there and really supporting people in a way that changes the world.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is since I was five, literally, I went through this process when I was five and I never forgot it.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's still to my core to this day.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, I could be a doctor, but I don't like blood, right?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna geek me out.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's a no.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then I went to I could be a lawyer, but I knew that if I was a lawyer, I wanted to help women and children who were being hurt at home.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I think I'd be sad all the time.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not gonna work for me.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do I love?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love stories.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love stories.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought about funnily enough, I was thinking about a Disney movie that I watched with the good old puffy cases uh in the VHS tapes.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking about it and I was like, I loved how it changed my mind.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized in that moment that stories have the power to change minds, which have the power to change hearts, which means we change behavior and we change the world.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: And by being someone who is involved in what narratives are released to the public and released in a mass way means I get to help change the hearts, minds, and behaviors of people all around the world.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I know how I would use that.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that is incredibly exciting to me, and I would love to be a part of that.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing, and that's a great ramp up to what usually is my closing question.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is what is your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, I love that.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the best way to do that, in my opinion, is to keep focused and move your feet.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna hurt.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are gonna be moments that are gonna suck, there are gonna be inspiring moments.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Your motivation is never gonna be enough to carry you through.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you learn how to move your feet and you move, you learn how to stay focused on what that mission is while you move your feet.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: You will never be in the same place a year from now that you were today.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Polly, I am so glad we got to connect.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for doing my show.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: It has been an amazing conversation.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to call us friends.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I'd like to thank Polly for doing the show today.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can search her on Facebook, Polly Anna Elizabeth Brown.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: She has all of her links on her Facebook profile.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hit her up.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she can help you craft better messaging.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, while you are cruising the world wide web searching for fun things to like and follow, make sure you are following Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark on all social media platforms: Instagram, Threads, TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe if you're lucky enough and we become friends, I'll add you on Snapchat.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Highly unlikely, but you never know.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit me at www.caught on the mic.com.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.