Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Leadership With Todd Long | The Christian Reeve Podcast #173

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Leadership With Todd Long | The Christian Reeve Podcast #173 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:02
  podcast. Today's guest is the owner and
• 0:04
  president of leadership Innovations, hailing all the way
• 0:07
  from Missouri. And the United States is name is
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  Todd long. Welcome to the show.
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  How you doing today? I'm doing great.
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  Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to our
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  conversation. It's a pleasure, having you on
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  the show. Let's just, let's just jump
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  straight into things. I'd love to know how you kind of
• 0:22
  set up your business and the journey from when you began to
• 0:26
  present day. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Now it's interesting. Because I think businesses least
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  in my world. My business idea started
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  probably when I was in college, I had this little bit of an
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  impetus like, oh, this little thing inside me saying, I really
• 0:38
  be cool to have my own business someday.
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  Now, then reality sets in and you have to get experience and
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  knowledge and wisdom, and all those kinds of things.
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  And I would also say that I'm not a extreme risk taker, I'm a
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  moderate risk taker, I would say.
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  And so, I think more extreme Risk Takers probably jump in and
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  like us, this just dig into this.
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  And I'm more probably a slower risk taker.
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  And that process. So I had this this idea I'd love
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  to have my own business, not really sure what that was but
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  then got really intrigued by this notion of leadership
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  development helping people how do I influence the people around
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  me but also how do I leave myself and said that, that
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  really started to become? I became really curious about
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  that early on in my career and so that as a result of that,
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  that I was like, how can I position myself in different
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  roles jobs experiences where I can either learn about
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  leadership development? Mint facilitate train teach, do
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  whatever I can to gain, and the gain experience from this as
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  well. And so, that was probably the
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  beginning of it. And then 12 years ago, this
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  month is when I fish Lee, kicked off leadership, Innovations, and
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  finally made the leap from full-time employment, where you
• 1:48
  get the check every month, you got the health insurance, you
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  got all those kinds of things. And it said, okay, my wife and I
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  said let's go take this leap of faith and let's just jump into
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  it and we figured we had a pretty good support system
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  around us. Our finances were okay.
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  They were, you know, it was like we were going to go very long
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  without needs money in the bank, but we said, let's go do this.
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  And if we fall or fail, then hey, we'll learn something and,
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  and, and jump from there. And I say, my wife and I because
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  she's not necessarily involved in the business, but we have
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  five children and we had five long children.
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  Yeah, we had five young children at the time and so I was the
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  primary person providing income for the family, so yeah.
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  See how that all people in this show that have been in kind of a
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  similar situation as far as transitioning from, you know,
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  like full-time career to going for like a business and it's
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  always a tough decision. And there's going to be a lot of
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  considerations to be had but like I find that fascinating
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  that you had five young to your journey and you got a wife and
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  everything you have to like can you walk us through a little bit
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  that decision making process and how you guys kind of decided
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  like, okay this is the right move and this is yeah, yeah look
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  I love to share that story. Actually, it's a faith Journey
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  really in terms of our faith. In terms of that.
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  Yeah, I really is a faith Journey because I would feel
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  this, so, I'll back up a little bit years before that I would
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  Census Data relative, start my own business and then there's
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  this like wait wait a minute, wait a minute and as I really
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  like Circa made a minute, wait a minute you know there was that
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  sense that and I get that I needed and it wasn't it was a
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  good, it was a good, wait a minute voice from my wife saying
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  hey let's make sure we have certain Certain things in order
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  and I knew it wasn't and then there was a sense like it isn't
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  quite the right timing. But then I also remember my
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  wife, she gave me her name's Rebecca, by the way, she gave me
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  a journal probably about four years before I launched the
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  business and she said, I don't want to hold you back from your
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  dreams and I want you to be able to think about that.
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  So I have this journal and I just started journaling and
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  writing and saying what this might look like, thinking
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  through that. And then 2010, I guess that
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  would be the spring of 2010. I just got that bubbling again.
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  Stirring in me, and I just felt like this almost, like God's
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  calling me. I have a faith.
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  You know what? My faith salesmen.
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  Like, I just felt this. Like God is calling you to go.
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  Do this. Go make this happen.
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  And what was interesting is Rebecca also was like, I think
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  we're it's time. She started saying that.
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  And so I was like, okay. Now, it almost felt like this
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  sense of like, if we got to go do this, it was different.
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  And that's the only way I can describe it.
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  As it was, it was just this sense of like this is different.
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  You got to go do this and try it on.
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  And so they said, well, let's go do it and so turn my Resignation
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  in turn my turn, my resignation and stepped out and literally
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  like within, like probably a weak connection that I had said,
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  hey we were looking at building this leadership development
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  program at are really large business and we'd like you to be
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  a part of that are helping Build That Base.
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  Is the width thing about chasing your dreams?
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  Isn't it? Because I've had some somewhat,
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  a similar journey and so much as of in the last couple years,
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  I've gone freelance. So I was always always doing
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  marketing. That's my It's least, I studied
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  at least and well, but I'll give you, I'll give you a bit
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  content. So I'm basically trying to
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  become an actor and voice actor and Thompson trying to do a
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  podcast, a lot of different things.
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  Right? And but I studied marketing
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  that, you know, I was told from a young age, like your knees
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  get, especially as in me to get the great and for what it's
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  worth, it was a good decision. It did kind of push me away from
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  where I wanted to be, But the irony is everything.
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  I do involves marketing advertising branding like you
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  name it. Like it's just kind of ironic
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  like innocence. Yeah.
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  Anyway like taking that plunge going from an everyday kind of
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  worker in a day job to freelance was such a big Journey for me
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  and a jump for me and it's I feel like it's very similar to
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  being a business owner in the sense that like, you know, you
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  don't have that paycheck or guaranteed every month, you
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  don't have. There's less secure.
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  I don't want to say that it's completely secure because it's
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  not but there is Lot less security because you're
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  constantly seeking that work and pursuing that work and running a
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  business. I imagine isn't it is quite
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  similar in the sense that like you go from Project to project
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  maybe you have constant like regular customers or maybe it's
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  a project-by-project basis. Like, however, the model goes
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  but point is you're always looking and it takes time to
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  build a suppose, you know, the experience, the Network's
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  contacts Etc. But my point is like it's taking
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  that initial Jump into that, that's fear.
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  The unknown is like, really tricky.
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  Yeah. It's like I feel like once you
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  do it though, and this is why I wanted to bring this up.
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  Yeah. These windows do start opening.
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  Like I remember there was a particular, I got, I was
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  basically, I was unemployed for quite a long time,
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  unfortunately, because I said it was a bit of a weird situation
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  where I came back from another country and then covid here.
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  And I kind of know, I really felt like, okay.
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  Get a job easily, like no problem, right, okay.
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  It's like year and a half later then I finally get work.
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  And it was on a freelance basis, which is exactly what I wanted.
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  But it was still kind of working for a company.
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  Wasn't quite exactly what I wanted.
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  But it was at least somewhat on my terms, but it was
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  contract-based. And then I realized like, okay,
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  I need to change this and move this into a situation where I am
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  in full control and I get to kind of call the shots as far as
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  My time is concerned. Yeah, yeah.
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  And that's what I need in order to facilitate being able to
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  pursue those goals of things like acting and stuff like that.
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  Right point is, it's like this process that keeps going.
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  And, you know, yeah, go from step to step stage 2 stage.
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  And every once in a while that feeling comes, we like this
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  feels right or, you know, you have a period of nothing
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  happening. And then suddenly, you get a
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  bunch of opportunities like more recently.
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  I said this on the show. So for anyone, who's a regular
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  listener of the show, you already know this story but in
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  voice acting, I had an opportunity come up and it was
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  something I'd never done in voice acting before met a bunch
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  of people and that kind of changed my perspective of what
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  the possibilities are in that field as far as work is
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  concerned. And then just in general the
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  experience, you know, the money that was involved.
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  The experience itself, the connections.
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  I'm just looking at all this and I'm like This is what my life
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  could be and this is what my life is right now.
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  Yeah, we're getting there. And yes, like there are there's
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  like signs. It's like there's a feeling that
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  you can't quite explain, you know, if you're religious maybe
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  it's maybe is God, maybe it's a calling, or if you're not
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  religious, maybe it's Universal or whatever the case may be, but
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  there's like a feeling within of, like, no, I need to push on
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  this and pursue this and it's this, I know this is a bit of a
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  long-winded story, but that's all right.
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  When I'm sorry. Ted I love to tell the story it.
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  But yeah, when I was listening to you, talking about that like
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  feeling when the right time is I really resonated with that
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  because I feel that it's difficult to know exactly when
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  the timing is, right? Because you get Clues like as
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  you said throughout time, you were kind of saying, like always
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  this the right time I got a bit of a feeling but yeah, it's
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  knowing the difference between pulling the trigger when it's
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  time to do. So but also, Times when you're
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  just feeling like you you really want to pursue it but you just
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  eat. Yeah.
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  Well you know yeah there's then there has to be some wisdom,
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  right? And in some of those
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  decision-making Zoo can't be just completely compulsive, you
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  know it, you know, it's all emotional, emotionally driven,
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  there has to be some other factors in place, right?
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  A really strong network of support.
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  I had to have been into Kansas City Missouri area for 20 years.
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  I had a lot of people that I knew a lot of relationships.
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  So there's a lot of things that were at been established and put
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  in place to go. Take that leap to make it a
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  little bit. Is your back to that moderate
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  risk taker, right? There's some of that sits in
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  place. But what's interesting though
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  about having my own business, is there still those Ebbs and flows
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  of like wow? Do I keep going?
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  Is there time? There's moments that come home
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  and Business a little bit lower right now and picks up a little
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  bit. So what I totally get that same
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  ebb and flow of things, but what's really fascinating is
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  that, you know, when people like right now, I've got some steady
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  clients. I can establish some really
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  strong steady clients that I work with.
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  I can lose one client, and still be in business if I had In job
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  and I had was an employed by somebody.
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  I lost my one job. I'm out of business.
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  I'm out of work, right? And so, it's a different.
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  It's a different experience of estab.
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  You've actually have been some ways.
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  If you just if the business has been established, well, you've
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  got this network of opportunities of work versus
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  just one thing you're doing completely agree.
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  And it was only maybe three or four years ago, that I really
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  fully understood the significance of that.
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  You know, I worked in a few different companies where I saw
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  people People that really good at that job.
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  So you know get fired because of just, I don't know budget,
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  carts, political, whatever, you know it happens.
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  But point is yeah, your livelihood is just gone which,
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  you know it's if you're just a regular person that you know,
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  doesn't really have any responsibilities.
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  It's not like it's difficult but it's not really, really, really
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  tough. Whereas if you got a wife kids,
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  all these different other things, you have to, you know,
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  commitments things you have to be there for and sustained Like
• 11:29
  your hand is forced that you need to get work as soon as
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  possible. But yeah.
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  Yeah I think I guess what would really alluding to is the fact
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  that like the nature of work has changed, you know?
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  I mean like the I look at it like instead of a job I look at
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  okay, different Revenue sources, different ways of maximizing,
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  the potential making money like just as long as you keep that
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  money coming in, right? It's okay, yeah, providing for
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  the Lively at the lifestyle you want and, and hopefully, doing
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  things at least some. He sounds like your case.
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  Well you're doing things that one you Joy and love to do and
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  it shows some value like is there value in the world that
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  you're providing. That's, that's the other.
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  Those are really important aspects in any of the work that
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  I've done over. My career is, do I do?
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  I enjoy it. Love it.
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  If I compelled to go do that and is it, is it providing valued in
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  some way to some some people around us as opposed to, you
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  know, other work, which is important, right?
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  I mean it and some people most people obviously are not caught
• 12:24
  not compelled to go start their own business and we need people
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  to work for. Businesses.
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  And you know, if my business if people sided hey I'm not hiring
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  taught anymore to do work and I got to go find another job and
• 12:35
  figure out something else has another Revenue Source whether
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  that whatever that might be to provide for my family, I'll go
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  do that. That's that's because that's the
• 12:43
  responsibility. You have to go.
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  Go take care of things. So for me it's kind of it was a
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  kind of a two-fold understanding thing and I had to learn the,
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  I'm a certain type of person but I also had to learn you know how
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  jobs in the world works because it's changed like Not really
• 13:00
  realistically, you can't go and work for a company like 20, 30,
• 13:03
  odd years. Now if you do pursue the
• 13:05
  corporate environment or any kind of job, really your kind of
• 13:08
  expected to move, you know, between companies or between
• 13:13
  positions or whatever, that you're always expected to
• 13:16
  continue. Moving forward, it's rare that
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  you can find a role where you can just kind of sit and just
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  collect your paycheck and that's great, you know?
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  But yeah, you're right like different types of people
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  require different things. And I think that's kind of key.
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  Like I for me it was a realization of sitting in a job
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  that was paying fairly reasonably.
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  Well the time Greg got it and you know it's getting experience
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  I needed and the job was easy and I was like what do I really
• 13:43
  have to complain about here? I felt bad about feeling that
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  way, but then it was like no I just have to do this freelance
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  thing and pursue these goals that I have because that's the
• 13:54
  only way I'll be happy which is very deep but like That's the
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  reality. But no I get that.
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  I get that complete the contentment or Joy or happiness
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  in life, you know, and that the tension between that and
• 14:06
  responsibilities, like I as a human being, I needed least take
• 14:09
  care of these. Hopefully, as I meant shirring
• 14:11
  least, if I'm, if you're single or whatever.
• 14:13
  You got to take care of yourself least to provide for yourself.
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  Or if you've got other people in your life that you're providing
• 14:18
  for to take care of them and do what's right there.
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  So there is a there is a tension in that.
• 14:23
  That's you got to wrestle with a little bit.
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  No I think he's just about like Exercising like self-discipline.
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  Like, a lot of people that I've spoken to the talk about, you
• 14:34
  know, like, oh, I could never do that or they're wondering, like,
• 14:37
  how would you get into that? And they said, I would find it
• 14:39
  difficult to discipline oneself. And I think that one of the
• 14:42
  things you were talking about is, you know, if you lose a
• 14:45
  project and you'll be okay, they'll still be money coming in
• 14:48
  and I think at that kind of comes down to being able to
• 14:51
  manage your money effectively, but also being able to plan it
• 14:54
  out. I got recently, I've had to
• 14:56
  completely change the way I have.
• 14:58
  It's this and I'm still learning and it's a bit like, okay, this
• 15:02
  is just a different way of doing things.
• 15:05
  It's a princess, when someone goes, oh, when's Payday for you
• 15:07
  and herself? Well, that kind of varies like,
• 15:09
  it is what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:14
  It's an important rights, it's important to realize, I think,
• 15:18
  for anyone listening to this, who's in work, or maybe you're
• 15:22
  looking to get into work or, you know, in between jobs, whatever
• 15:25
  the case may be, I think if you take away anything, it should Be
• 15:29
  that you've got different options and different paths.
• 15:31
  There isn't only one way to do this one way to make money,
• 15:34
  especially these days with the Advent of everything else, how
• 15:38
  to preserve 100%. Yeah.
• 15:40
  Keeping your options open and I think that's any time we get
• 15:42
  stuck. Like this is the only answer we
• 15:44
  have. And you think that's the only
• 15:46
  answer, which is not true. That's never true.
• 15:49
  But when we get stuck in and we think this is the only answer,
• 15:51
  then we limit ourselves completely, okay?
• 15:54
  As a Gun, there's lots of options.
• 15:55
  There's always lots of options when you too, By Epson flows.
• 15:59
  Like, that's again, something I resonate with to, because I find
• 16:03
  fritters. I do a lot of freelance writing.
• 16:06
  Yeah, and I'll get times where, you know, I have a client ages.
• 16:11
  It's going really well. And then suddenly they just go
• 16:13
  cold, never here. We can order their like, just it
• 16:17
  just, they don't really need you anymore or whatever the case may
• 16:20
  be correct. And then, and then you get a
• 16:22
  period where you're like, okay, where am I going to find work?
• 16:25
  What am I going to do? And then, like a week later,
• 16:28
  Maybe even a day later suddenly, it changes.
• 16:30
  Yep, I love that excitement as well because every day,
• 16:34
  especially in my life right now. Every day is different, even one
• 16:37
  days. Not, so positive the next day,
• 16:39
  it's really positive. And I'm just like, okay, well, I
• 16:42
  guess the key is to just keep being consists of, in
• 16:44
  consistent, in your efforts every day.
• 16:46
  But then as soon as you get an opportunity jump on it.
• 16:49
  Yeah. Now I think that's exactly
• 16:51
  right. I think that consistency, what,
• 16:52
  at least I found for myself is just beacons.
• 16:55
  Keep keep Runnin. Runnin the long race.
• 16:58
  Being consistent, what you know how to do you do really well,
• 17:01
  trust, trust in the process, be distance for me.
• 17:04
  I'm disciplined about I you know, I have my work hours, I
• 17:07
  have the things that I've accomplished, I have my clear
• 17:09
  goals, I'm trying to accomplish in terms of both reaching out
• 17:13
  from a marketing standpoint. Relationship-building
• 17:15
  standpoint, from a delivery, standpoint from a creation
• 17:18
  standpoint, those kinds of things.
• 17:20
  So and then constantly getting feedback from my clients and how
• 17:24
  can I pet bat, how can I get better?
• 17:25
  And I'm going to keep improving. I want to get, I want to get
• 17:27
  better. Better as well.
• 17:30
  How do you tackle that aspect? Because, you know, I admire that
• 17:34
  I kind of try to hit that as much as possible to like this
• 17:37
  idea that there are like set hours you are available and, you
• 17:40
  know, you just get back to people when you're free but some
• 17:44
  people, maybe don't necessarily appreciate that or maybe they
• 17:46
  see it differently. You ever face kind of clashes on
• 17:50
  that. Like, how do you kind of deal
• 17:51
  with differences of opinion? Yes, say on the, in terms of
• 17:57
  being able to be reached, Throughout the day.
• 18:00
  Yeah, so this is what's this, what this, what works for me.
• 18:04
  And I suppose, that's probably what you got to find, what works
• 18:06
  for yourself and kind of your flow of life and your day and
• 18:09
  those kinds of things. Like, I know some people that
• 18:12
  they can work in the night evening hours and that's kind of
• 18:14
  their best time prime time. There you go.
• 18:17
  Right for yourself, right? That's you I'd for me.
• 18:19
  I'm a morning person. So if I get up and I did, you
• 18:22
  know, go through my routines in the morning where I get my
• 18:24
  exercise, I have my breakfast and I get to work.
• 18:26
  That's that works for me and so I can get my primary work.
• 18:30
  I know The morning hours, I'm going to be putting forth
• 18:32
  certain effort afternoon hours. I know that I'm not going to be
• 18:35
  probably as focus is productive. So I have to line my work to
• 18:38
  that the best that I can but as long as I'm consistent in that
• 18:41
  that's for me that works in terms of now I'd also go back to
• 18:45
  this is I also have a clear I call it my blueprint for for
• 18:50
  work and so I've established I could hear the goals that I'm
• 18:54
  trying to accomplish this year and I'm really clear about okay.
• 18:57
  Here's I know I have to accomplish Certain day or do
• 19:01
  certain things to keep the business going.
• 19:02
  And so I set up goals around that for myself and I check back
• 19:06
  in with those goals to make sure I'm achieving those goals.
• 19:08
  For example, just as simple as posting on LinkedIn.
• 19:13
  Okay. You know it's a simple goal that
• 19:15
  like I'm going to post on LinkedIn X number of times per
• 19:17
  week and I'm going to go check that out.
• 19:19
  Just to continue to connect with people that way or I'm going to
• 19:23
  establish coffee conversations with people.
• 19:24
  I'm going to check in with clients on a consistent basis.
• 19:27
  I'm going to follow up and do those things.
• 19:28
  I've got these specific goals. I have in mind that I'm trying
• 19:32
  to accomplish and that was probably part of, this is a
• 19:35
  great writing a book at a goal of writing a book and finally
• 19:38
  finished it this last year and so that was okay.
• 19:40
  I gotta I gotta I gotta keep be consistent with that.
• 19:43
  So so there is that the tangible aspect of going, okay?
• 19:46
  What are what's my clear Direction?
• 19:48
  Where the clear things I'm trying to accomplish and then
• 19:51
  having the discipline enough to go back to doing those things
• 19:54
  and and saying that I was up flex flexible and flexibility
• 19:58
  and freedom. I know like if I get a call and
• 20:01
  I got to take my kid some place or do this or have to change it
• 20:05
  certain days, I can do that and adjust my work schedule to make
• 20:08
  that happen. But I still know, I need to get
• 20:09
  these things accomplished. So one aspect of what you're
• 20:13
  saying is that because you're able to be flexible with
• 20:16
  yourself in your own commitments, you're able to kind
• 20:17
  of extend that, to clients to within reason.
• 20:20
  Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
• 20:22
  And also, to be on, I mean, my work is not urgent work.
• 20:26
  Okay? I'm not, I'm not in charge of an
• 20:28
  it. We're have to have 24-hour
• 20:31
  observation. The thing goes down and then
• 20:33
  everything everybody gets on on call and has to fix that.
• 20:36
  Right? People aren't calling me like
• 20:38
  God, you know, I got this leadership issue.
• 20:40
  I got a sovereign, 10 minutes, you're gonna fix it right now.
• 20:42
  Like that doesn't happen like as I want to know what crisis
• 20:46
  management is, then maybe I could offer that as a solution
• 20:50
  like, you know, on call crisis leadership moment.
• 20:53
  But most of the things, I'm doing our prepare, like, I'm
• 20:55
  thinking about them weeks or months in advance, then
• 20:58
  preparing for That client. Now their deadlines, I have to
• 21:00
  get to that client and commitments that I've made in
• 21:03
  terms of things that I need to get to them in order to do the
• 21:05
  workshop or the retreat or the coaching session that I'm doing.
• 21:10
  So, I have to there are things that begin to put, but it's not,
• 21:13
  but I don't mostly in my life, I don't have it urgency like some
• 21:16
  people's work. That that is.
• 21:18
  Its kind of feels like it's constant urgency because the
• 21:20
  nature of the work. Well, I mean, it's interesting,
• 21:24
  you talk about that in general, like I feel that the world just
• 21:26
  kind of operates in that in that way.
• 21:28
  Now The even even while business itself might not be urgent.
• 21:33
  There is almost sometimes an expectation from clients people.
• 21:36
  Like for instance, I've had instances where people have
• 21:38
  been. Have you seen this yet?
• 21:40
  And I'll get fat. Like I have seen it, they don't
• 21:44
  know that. Yeah, but I have, you know, I'm
• 21:46
  and I'm taking my time because I like to do things like emails,
• 21:50
  just something straight. Sometimes I see like a stack of
• 21:53
  emails and I just look at it. Like, I'm not in the right head
• 21:56
  space to do that right now, but I know I will will be, and when
• 21:59
  I get that moment, I will go through all those and I'll take
• 22:03
  the time and I'll really make an effort that.
• 22:06
  But sometimes people other people just expect you to kind
• 22:09
  of just be like reaching at all times and I just yeah I refuse
• 22:15
  to play that game. I don't want to play that game.
• 22:17
  Like I totally get what you're saying, though.
• 22:19
  I took there's energy because our communication, our tools of
• 22:22
  communication, we can text, we can Snapchat, we could do,
• 22:25
  whatever tool it is to communicate quickly to people.
• 22:28
  And there's Used to be the sense of urgency around everything and
• 22:31
  that's just not true for the most part.
• 22:35
  Most of the stuff, is this frivolous, you see?
• 22:38
  It's easy to forget, like, I met someone the other day about some
• 22:41
  work, and I realize the time and she was just talking normally,
• 22:45
  and just sort of said, like, oh, hey, by the way, like, sorry, I
• 22:48
  just realized it's really late. This is probably really
• 22:50
  inappropriate. She's like, no, no, it's fine,
• 22:52
  don't worry, don't worry, but I still feel bad because it's like
• 22:54
  that, this isn't cool. I should save this and do this
• 22:57
  at a reasonable hour and Stuff. Yeah, well there's two things
• 23:00
  that come to my mind just as we think about leading ourselves
• 23:03
  when you, when you think about that two things, as one is
• 23:06
  recognizing the things they're coming at me, are they truly
• 23:10
  urgent? Or not urgent?
• 23:12
  You know, and how important are they or how unimportant are
• 23:15
  they. As we think through kind of that
• 23:18
  lens there's this lens that looks through that are we are we
• 23:20
  really focusing our time on things that are important and
• 23:22
  not urgent. That's right where I try to live
• 23:25
  my life like I'm going to try to do things that are important,
• 23:27
  but they're not urgent. I'm going to do.
• 23:29
  Quality in the best that I can. Now I get sometimes we get
• 23:32
  things that are Urgent and important that you got to go
• 23:33
  take care of, but I don't want to spend my time doing things
• 23:37
  that are Urgent and unimportant and I feel like I'll so much the
• 23:40
  stuff that comes at us these days.
• 23:42
  It's really urgent and not important.
• 23:45
  And so then if we can eliminate as much of our time, doing those
• 23:48
  things that, if then, we can spend more of our time doing
• 23:50
  things that are important and not urgent.
• 23:52
  So, that's one thing that comes to my mind.
• 23:55
  I had a second thing and I totally lost it now, so it may
• 23:57
  come back in a minute. But that was.
• 24:00
  Yeah. So but there but but it's I
• 24:04
  think that's important to recognize this leading ourselves
• 24:06
  and what are the things that are coming at us.
• 24:08
  And then maybe the second thing is, we don't we act, we can
• 24:10
  decide what I say game we're playing or what we're going to
• 24:13
  do, like, what's our, what are our habits in terms of working?
• 24:17
  And, and for us, that make sense, like I said, if it works
• 24:20
  for you to work in the evening and that's a prime time for you
• 24:23
  to work and that's great, right? And and other people know that
• 24:27
  and don't have the expectations like I'm not going Let people
• 24:29
  know, most people know I'm working with them.
• 24:31
  I'm not going to respond. It respond to emails at night
• 24:34
  because I set my boundaries and sec.
• 24:36
  I'm back, that's just not going to happen most of the time so
• 24:39
  it's good. I just, I just, I always find it
• 24:41
  interesting to learn about different Business.
• 24:43
  Leaders deal with these things because the guys, it's, it's
• 24:46
  interesting one, and everyone looks at it differently, like I
• 24:48
  personally, I'll be able to work in the morning and the evening,
• 24:52
  but sometimes I find like the middle, our middle hours of the
• 24:56
  day. I'm kind of useless for some
• 24:58
  reason. Yeah.
• 24:59
  I understand that. Yeah and I said no way it's just
• 25:02
  like between the hours of about two to four.
• 25:04
  I'm just like. And then after that suddenly
• 25:08
  Wide Awake really into it ready to do stuff.
• 25:11
  Yeah, and saying that first thing in the morning, I feel
• 25:13
  like it's it's a great time to get things done but yeah, it's
• 25:16
  weird. Well it's fine.
• 25:18
  It's it is it is finding what works for you.
• 25:20
  I don't like this is what works for me.
• 25:21
  I'm not there's not a template for any of that.
• 25:23
  It's like, what works for you as you lead your sin?
• 25:26
  I go back to Leading yourself. How do you lead yourself?
• 25:28
  Well, And navigate that. Now now if you're responsible
• 25:31
  for other human beings that you're managing, it's also being
• 25:34
  really clear. Like, I've seen this problem is
• 25:36
  there certain people are really driven and like they're doing
• 25:38
  emails at night, they're sending it out.
• 25:39
  So their Associates that their report to them, feel that same
• 25:42
  pressure like, oh, my boss wants me to reply to me tonight.
• 25:45
  Well, I've got these social activities.
• 25:47
  I'm doing, I'm constant, my phone.
• 25:49
  It feels like I can't get away from work because I feel like my
• 25:51
  boss is always wanting me to respond at night, or respond
• 25:54
  immediately to their, to their messages.
• 25:56
  Well, and that may or may not be true.
• 25:59
  But a lot of times we don't even have the conversation about.
• 26:01
  Hey, what are your expectations? When I send you an e-mail at,
• 26:04
  you know, 9:00 at night? Does your expectations for me to
• 26:06
  reply to that immediately? Or can I wait till the next day?
• 26:09
  If I'm spending time with my significant people in my life,
• 26:14
  what do you think about micromanagement?
• 26:16
  And then the what place? Like do you think when the
• 26:19
  reason because I know is a controversial term and stuff
• 26:22
  like that, but like there are people out there that do believe
• 26:24
  that, you know, following up on these things pushing talking to
• 26:29
  Staff in a certain way might be effective.
• 26:30
  And while you were talking there, it kind of just reminded
• 26:33
  me of that. And over the years, I felt like
• 26:36
  I've always done my best work when I've been able, to, have
• 26:39
  some degree of autonomy, and just kind of just getting things
• 26:42
  done. But then sometimes if you
• 26:45
  confront people about this, they'll say, well, I'm just
• 26:47
  trying to get an update. I need to know I'm following up
• 26:51
  on this, but I actually find it quite disruptive.
• 26:53
  But what your thoughts in general, the good and the bad.
• 26:56
  Yeah, so there's a 10-year Years of my life where I oversaw, an
• 27:01
  outdoor ropes course challenge course, which is basically, I
• 27:04
  don't feel you're familiar with that industry, but it's
• 27:06
  basically at these outdoor challenges and activities.
• 27:09
  You bring people usually students and youth through,
• 27:11
  sometimes adults do these team-building challenges
• 27:14
  activity. So I had about 30 to 40 staff
• 27:16
  that I had to train up and help run this facility because we had
• 27:19
  hundreds of kids, that would come and participants come on
• 27:22
  throughout the year. And so, my belief was I wanted
• 27:26
  to train up the facilitators, my the staff.
• 27:29
  I have so I could give him the keys and they could run with it.
• 27:32
  I got was my ultimate goal. I wanted to be a plan a place
• 27:34
  where I don't really have to be here and this thing is going to
• 27:37
  run smoothly. So now to get there to get our
• 27:40
  staff to that point that they could do that with me, saying,
• 27:44
  hey here's the group, here's the time.
• 27:46
  Here's our. All you need to do there's a
• 27:48
  training process and a little bit of I do if it's micromanage
• 27:51
  but it's a closer training and a closer observation and a closer
• 27:55
  experience with them until they have the abilities and the
• 27:57
  motivation to go do that themselves.
• 27:59
  Cause once they have the ability and motivation to go do that
• 28:01
  some cells then it's like, oh, here's the keys run with it, you
• 28:04
  know, I'll just be here to coach you check-in.
• 28:08
  I'm here to support you. But in that particular task, you
• 28:11
  can go run with it. And I think that's the mistake
• 28:14
  we often times make is, if somebody is experience that
• 28:17
  something has the motivation and skill sets, hey, run with it.
• 28:20
  Now, if somebody doesn't have that, like if they're there,
• 28:22
  they don't have the skills and motivation, then I probably need
• 28:24
  to be a little bit closer to them and help them through that
• 28:27
  process a little bit closer. Now, where the Call out
• 28:29
  micromanagement or, you know, just closer observation to help
• 28:32
  support somebody to get to that point.
• 28:35
  See, that's the thing. What you laid out there to me
• 28:37
  that just sounds like training someone for getting into a
• 28:41
  management position or supervisory position, which you
• 28:43
  would expect, you would want, even them to be a bit more, your
• 28:47
  manager. Sorry to be a bit more Hands-On
• 28:49
  with you and teach you. Yeah.
• 28:52
  Whereas I don't know, I feel like micromanagement, more tends
• 28:55
  to be a kind of lack of trust. Yeah.
• 28:58
  You know, like it. Like, when I've experienced it
• 29:00
  in the workplace, it'll be something like, okay, here's a
• 29:03
  project. I need you to do a say I need
• 29:07
  you to write me these articles and do a bit of editing and I
• 29:10
  need it done by Wednesday this week.
• 29:13
  Okay, let's Monday. Right.
• 29:15
  And then I'm more, explain this video audience.
• 29:18
  I know what you, you know, what I think about, isn't it?
• 29:20
  Let's go sit down there. Anyway, that's good.
• 29:26
  So, like You go through that process of delivering that work
• 29:31
  to them. And then normally you would just
• 29:33
  walk away and be like, okay, that, you know, I'll come back
• 29:36
  to you when it's done kind of thing.
• 29:37
  But I find in my experience it's always like, a couple of hours
• 29:41
  later. It's like, so how's it going and
• 29:44
  to me? So how's it going?
• 29:46
  Doesn't mean oh. So how's it going to need any
• 29:49
  help? Like how can I be of assistance?
• 29:51
  So how's it going means? Why isn't it done yet?
• 29:55
  Hmm, right, right? What what, what do we have?
• 29:58
  A problem it is just like yeah this kind of hurt.
• 30:02
  You feel this pressure, this for ya, this coercion.
• 30:04
  Maybe if you will you know around that.
• 30:06
  Yeah, yeah. Well that's the thing.
• 30:08
  Like I think maybe micromanagement possibly could
• 30:12
  be a useful thing. If you have someone who's not
• 30:14
  motivated or doesn't want to work.
• 30:16
  But then if they are not motivated, they don't want to
• 30:18
  work. Then why are they employed like,
• 30:21
  you know, you can even attempt to try and get that out of them.
• 30:25
  That's a, like, give up people but if Someone doesn't want to
• 30:28
  be there, then find someone who does want to be there, you know.
• 30:31
  It's like, I don't know. I mean yeah, well I think it's
• 30:35
  back to where do you give people Freedom people that want freedom
• 30:38
  or need for you to go execute their jobs without feelings?
• 30:42
  Like, somebody's kind of overseeing them too much, that
• 30:45
  Keys keeps them from doing it well and then going back to your
• 30:48
  example. It's like other clear
• 30:49
  expectations about when you want the project finished.
• 30:51
  Like if this is done had like this done by tomorrow at noon,
• 30:56
  They've clearly said that you've under you understand that they
• 31:00
  don't need to check in and tell if it's not done by tomorrow at
• 31:02
  noon then you have the freedom to come check with me.
• 31:05
  Or I need to communicate back to you if I'm not going to get it
• 31:07
  done by noon tomorrow or whatever the date dates are on
• 31:10
  it. So oftentimes what we don't do
• 31:11
  is set clear expectations about 10 things done and then then we
• 31:14
  don't have to worry about the micromanagement thing.
• 31:16
  Now I get like if you're a control person and you even
• 31:20
  though you set those things and you keep trying to come back and
• 31:23
  interfere in that then that's something is a If you're
• 31:26
  considered a leader or manager, you need to work on that.
• 31:29
  Like you need to get rid of that and be able to let go of some of
• 31:33
  those things that allow people to have some Freedom other than
• 31:36
  micromanagement. What do you think of the biggest
• 31:38
  mistakes? That lead is a making in
• 31:40
  general. Oh my gosh.
• 31:42
  Wow. Actually, you know what?
• 31:45
  This is, this is Basics, but I hear this consistently is.
• 31:51
  It's kind of connected to Parts. Is one is building a respected
• 31:56
  relationship with the people that you're working with.
• 31:59
  So, if I'm, if I'm a man in 5A title in a position of
• 32:02
  leadership building those, this respected trusted relationships
• 32:06
  with you and the associates but also among the associates
• 32:09
  themselves of creating that that relationship.
• 32:12
  So building that trust Relationship.
• 32:14
  And then also connected to that is doing consistent formal
• 32:18
  conversations. And I know this kind of contract
• 32:20
  amount of it contradicts the one at the micromanagement.
• 32:23
  But how do I check in on a consistent basis whether it's
• 32:25
  once a week or once every two weeks, but some consistency
• 32:29
  where I'm saying, hey what are you working on?
• 32:32
  How can I help you work on that your the expectations we have I
• 32:35
  can help you grow and develop. Hey I want to praise you and
• 32:38
  encourage you in this way and and having those kind of
• 32:40
  consistent things just to just to check in now, Each individual
• 32:44
  you're working with, they might need it once a week.
• 32:47
  They might meet a twice a week once a month, but it is that
• 32:49
  what's that consistency to help them, help them grow.
• 32:51
  And I and I hear that quite frequently in organizations is
• 32:54
  like Hey we're not spending the time to build a relationship and
• 32:56
  have consistent conversations to help that person do their work
• 32:59
  and continue to grow, develop develop well and that really is.
• 33:03
  That's a discipline of going okay we're going to have these.
• 33:06
  We're going to do this and do that and do them.
• 33:07
  Well also have those conversations.
• 33:09
  Well so yeah it's interested in listening to your different
• 33:16
  points. Then one of them stood out to me
• 33:18
  was the fact that praising people for the work I've done.
• 33:24
  I could probably count on my fingers.
• 33:25
  How many times? I actually received genuine
• 33:28
  compliments from manager, just just saying, hey well done, good
• 33:31
  job, like that was really good. You know, I I mean, I got it, I
• 33:38
  guess, the thought process normally is no news, is good
• 33:42
  news. Kind of Like, you know, maybe if
• 33:45
  I don't hear anything that it means doing your job well, and
• 33:47
  it here negativity, then you're not, but I don't know.
• 33:50
  Especially when you join a company.
• 33:52
  I think it's good to know like, oh, hey, he did really well or
• 33:55
  congrats, or like, well done or any anything, just some instant,
• 33:59
  read some feedback. Well, I know, it's even even
• 34:02
  young Associates and organizations of your new.
• 34:07
  Then there needs to be feedback in terms of even Improvement and
• 34:11
  I think people most people if you Set the expectation of like
• 34:14
  hey my job is to help you get better and provide you feedback
• 34:18
  and have these conversations for improvement.
• 34:20
  Let's, let's have those and also you get a mix in the praise and
• 34:23
  you got to mix and encouragement.
• 34:25
  You got to mix in the relationship that had those
• 34:28
  half. Those things have to happen to
• 34:31
  have healthy work environments and, and really, to get the best
• 34:33
  out of people as well. I think you spot-on with the age
• 34:37
  thing as well. Like I remember when I was
• 34:38
  young, like I read in certain jobs, I really could have done
• 34:41
  with some more reinforcements from herself.
• 34:43
  Steam issue and to be fair, you know, every person is different,
• 34:47
  some people will come in more confident, some some not, but I
• 34:49
  think as a leader, as a manager, you have to recognize that the
• 34:53
  people in your team and then the different personalities and
• 34:56
  tried to kind of cater that leadership to them.
• 34:59
  So, if they need more, you know, if they are lacking in
• 35:02
  self-esteem, like pay them, those compliments or give them
• 35:05
  that kind of reassurance, they need.
• 35:08
  Yeah, absolutely. Now that's absolute.
• 35:10
  Well this, I'm going to do a little plug if that's okay, over
• 35:13
  it. Please do.
• 35:13
  The crab from my performance leadership book.
• 35:15
  There we go, because really, it's about inspiring growth and
• 35:17
  others. I mean, a lot of that Concepts
• 35:19
  and terms of helping people grow and develop our, I've thought a
• 35:24
  lot about it and help people go through that the process of
• 35:28
  growing and developing and recognize that there's a lot of
• 35:31
  people need help. We need help to help other
• 35:32
  people growth. Go through this learning process
• 35:34
  and and make that happen. So, so yeah.
• 35:37
  So so I built that data saying, hey, this is really about
• 35:40
  learning, how do you help people grow and learn and I've defined
• 35:43
  These four phases that people go through and the learning
• 35:46
  process. And if we can understand where
• 35:48
  people are in their phases of growth and put language to that,
• 35:51
  then I as a leader can come up underneath somebody and support
• 35:54
  somebody through those growth phases, whatever that whatever
• 35:58
  trying to learn how to do. Whether it's, you know, playing
• 36:00
  a musical instrument writing, an article, or creating a marketing
• 36:05
  campaign, or developing a database or whatever, whatever
• 36:09
  the task is, if you're learning how to do that, you're going to
• 36:12
  go through these phases of growth.
• 36:13
  How do you reckon it'd help people move through those phases
• 36:16
  of growth? Given that you've been that
• 36:19
  you've been doing this work for about 12 years.
• 36:22
  Now, was it 2010 that you said that you sell the business that
• 36:24
  were a started my star my business is 2010, I'd say it's
• 36:27
  been doing leadership development work for about 20-25
• 36:30
  years when it cause y'all. Wow, yeah says well and we're
• 36:33
  pushing that. Yeah so I've been yeah, so
• 36:34
  business for 12 years but this kind of work.
• 36:36
  I've been doing for a little bit longer than that.
• 36:38
  But yeah, how would you say approaches to leadership have
• 36:42
  changed in that time. Time and where we at now with
• 36:45
  regards to what I suppose, what the popular methods of
• 36:49
  leadership? I would, I would say what's
• 36:54
  really fascinating. As I think the same styles of
• 36:59
  leadership, I see keeps showing up like I still see autocratic,
• 37:05
  kind of domineering leadership continue to manifest itself and
• 37:08
  lots of different organizations particularly at leadership
• 37:12
  higher leadership levels. There's this compulsion or
• 37:14
  tensity to have this autocratic kind of voice.
• 37:18
  What I also recognize is that what I think people want is more
• 37:22
  collaborative voice and input, and I would say, so in terms of
• 37:28
  what I see out there, I see all styles of leadership what I
• 37:31
  think people want and where I lean towards in terms of what I
• 37:34
  think are the best leadership approaches if we can have a more
• 37:37
  of a consensus building collaborative leadership
• 37:38
  approach, I think you're going to get better results.
• 37:41
  Ultimately It was an organization's.
• 37:45
  Now having said that I get, like, sometimes there has to be
• 37:47
  a decision that's made, and sometimes somebody has to make
• 37:50
  that decision, which becomes more of an autocratic style of
• 37:52
  leadership that may show up as well, and I also recognize it.
• 37:56
  If you're a leader of an organization and you're
• 38:00
  responsible for launching a new product, launching a new service
• 38:05
  launching something within your organization, you sure as well,
• 38:08
  better know, how to facilitate collaborative conversations,
• 38:11
  really well to get those people that are actually, Acute and
• 38:14
  putting this stuff together to have input have buy-in, have
• 38:17
  ownership have motivation, to go do that.
• 38:20
  And if all you're doing, is barking orders and telling
• 38:23
  people to get stuff out the door, you probably going to miss
• 38:25
  the opportunity to truly lead people.
• 38:27
  And all you're doing is just, you know, pushing pushing people
• 38:30
  around and forcing them into. Yeah, I don't know that.
• 38:33
  Maybe that's, that's it. But just, yeah, you want people
• 38:36
  to engage. There's a sense of, how do I get
• 38:39
  their voice out of? I help them collaborate.
• 38:40
  Be a part of this process. No, I think it speaks to Due to
• 38:44
  the fact that there are these different attitudes from
• 38:47
  companies and managers, within certain companies.
• 38:50
  Like and I mean, I remember went well from my time being
• 38:52
  unemployed when I was searching for certain jobs, and I would
• 38:56
  ask employers direct questions. Like what do you, what do you
• 39:00
  think about things like remote working?
• 39:01
  And I remember one time I asked this guy is the owner of a
• 39:04
  company and he was almost offended by the question and
• 39:08
  defensive and said like, no people love being here,
• 39:10
  physically being here. Now that do they, did I really
• 39:13
  have you done it? Office poll.
• 39:14
  Do you know that? Like it's just a question but
• 39:17
  his attitude kind of said to me and a lot of companies have this
• 39:20
  attitude of like we're doing you a favor.
• 39:24
  You know, like you working for us, we're doing you a favor and
• 39:27
  I just think that like maybe that was true once upon a time
• 39:30
  but the workplace has changed. The employee is changed.
• 39:34
  Now we are kind of, you're constantly trying to sell
• 39:36
  yourself if you think about it. I want to once you get kind of
• 39:39
  23 years into your giving profession.
• 39:42
  Now it's you know, you're in a position where you can kind of
• 39:44
  start somewhat gambling and kind of going.
• 39:47
  Well I could go. Here you go here, you know, like
• 39:50
  you could do consultancy quite directly in the field.
• 39:53
  You can set up your own thing, like there's different options,
• 39:55
  and different ways of working and stars and stuff and
• 39:58
  therefore the employee has more power now.
• 40:02
  So therefore I don't feel like there's any really any room for
• 40:05
  that kind of archaic, attitude of like well you know you you
• 40:10
  should be grateful for working here.
• 40:12
  So I thing and you know what, I think the best of it best cases.
• 40:15
  There's a mutually beneficial relationship the right like yes
• 40:19
  the employer is providing me an opportunity there for Image of
• 40:23
  training growth, a paycheck, you know, opportunities to work that
• 40:26
  if the employer is actually doing that, right?
• 40:29
  And then the employee is going, you know, I'm offering my
• 40:31
  services back to the company to help it grow and develop, and to
• 40:34
  become. So, if there's this mutually
• 40:35
  beneficial relationship in that, then that works really well.
• 40:39
  If it becomes, if that becomes an equal in terms of the
• 40:42
  employer feeling like, well you're just a, I'm doing you a
• 40:46
  favor so just show up and get the job done.
• 40:48
  You know, because we're giving you a paycheck and that's the
• 40:50
  only attitude you have then, there's you're going to miss out
• 40:52
  and the other Reverse is also true and I've seen this happen
• 40:54
  where an employee says, well hey, I'm worth more than you're
• 40:57
  paying me. And so then they start to
• 40:59
  leverage it's like, hey you need to pay me more.
• 41:01
  I'm going to leave and so and and so and I get that tactic and
• 41:05
  I get the negotiation there and I get I get some of those
• 41:07
  conversations but also then it starts to shift the changes.
• 41:10
  Like I started then feel more prideful and I'm not I'm a I'm a
• 41:14
  position myself where I'm not truly trying to benefit the
• 41:17
  organization and they're not truly trying to benefit me.
• 41:20
  I'm just negotiating the best salary I can get as high as
• 41:22
  possible. So I think there has to be a
• 41:25
  mutually beneficial relationship.
• 41:27
  That's hard to get. Sometimes that's how it's hard,
• 41:30
  it's not easy. It's I'm not saying it's easy to
• 41:32
  get to but it can be challenging but I think it's if you can find
• 41:35
  that balance I think that you have it, then you have a healthy
• 41:38
  environment that demand from employees to kind of ask for
• 41:43
  more to say like I am worth more than this.
• 41:45
  We started to hear a lot more of that in the media, you know?
• 41:49
  Yeah, during covid at the height of it and thereafter.
• 41:53
  And obviously, you know, in the states and I think this applied
• 41:56
  there in the rest of the world as well.
• 41:57
  Yeah, there was this kind of big surge in people quitting their
• 42:00
  jobs. Some from more of a statement
• 42:03
  but others to kind of say, hey, no, actually, I can do better
• 42:06
  than this. And, you know, I do deserve more
• 42:08
  than this given. Given all of that context.
• 42:12
  How did leadership change from your perspective?
• 42:16
  As a result of covid and white kind of did my place.
• 42:19
  Yeah, I mean, that's just, I think it's pretty obvious.
• 42:22
  It's just like, Challenge is wrestling with virtual birth
• 42:25
  versus in person, right? I think that's, that's been part
• 42:28
  of the big challenge that I've seen organizations wrestle, with
• 42:32
  of, how do we navigate our employees?
• 42:34
  Now that want to work in different environments or
• 42:37
  different homes and how do we, as a company?
• 42:39
  Say, hey, it's been this has been a core value of ours for
• 42:41
  employees to come in and we've seen benefit in that that's
• 42:44
  we've seen historically. And that's that.
• 42:47
  Those two things are tension in that.
• 42:48
  How do I manage that? So, I've seen organizations a
• 42:51
  find. I think most are Most that I'm
• 42:53
  working for, I think are finding some hybrid method, a, I get
• 42:57
  some companies I work for like, have a distribution
• 42:59
  manufacturing company, I work for those employees.
• 43:01
  Never, they can't work from home, they got to get stuff out
• 43:04
  the door. Like you have to, they had to
• 43:06
  come into the shop. They had to come to the
• 43:08
  warehouse. There isn't a remote working for
• 43:11
  a person who has to, you know, move stuff in a warehouse or
• 43:13
  produce things that just doesn't.
• 43:15
  It doesn't work in that environment.
• 43:17
  You know. Now other other staff could have
• 43:18
  that flexibility as well. Now what sooner this is really
• 43:22
  fascinating, I think I think companies are finding that, that
• 43:25
  hybrid method to try to find employees and and make it
• 43:29
  beneficial for everybody. But I found one organization,
• 43:32
  I'm working with. It's a smaller company but
• 43:34
  they're really working hard to create a really engaged culture.
• 43:39
  People wanted to find people want to work there.
• 43:41
  They're finding people that want to do really good work.
• 43:43
  There are growing company, they're being productive,
• 43:46
  they're doing, they're working with some anyway, they're doing
• 43:48
  some really good work and what's really interesting is they're
• 43:51
  not required for everybody to sleep.
• 43:53
  Come in but I'm hearing voices of I want to come in like I
• 43:56
  heard like one ladies. Like I'm sorry.
• 43:57
  She's like I want to come in there because I like the
• 43:59
  environment, I like, what's happening.
• 44:01
  I like to collaboration and so that's a really compelling
• 44:04
  notion of, are you making an environment?
• 44:06
  It's compelling for people to come into versus not, you know?
• 44:10
  And I also get then if you have the flexibility of like I can
• 44:13
  get some people, a man. If I get heads down, I can spit
• 44:16
  will be at my home working or some other environment working,
• 44:19
  and I could be really productive.
• 44:21
  I think there's some value in that.
• 44:23
  So so yeah. So I don't know if that answers
• 44:26
  your full question. I think there's people are still
• 44:28
  wrestling with it, from what I'm seeing and trying to find the
• 44:31
  right answers for their employees and the type of work
• 44:33
  they're doing and the culture that they're trying to create
• 44:36
  and that and I also know like I do, I facilitate training okay.
• 44:40
  Facilitate groups and I know there's a huge difference
• 44:42
  between me facilitating a conversation where it's virtual
• 44:45
  it's online and I can do that really well and I can keep
• 44:48
  people engaged really well and I can create a really good
• 44:50
  learning environment through through virtual.
• 44:53
  Seems, there's a whole different experience when I got you in the
• 44:55
  club when we're in the classroom physically together,
• 44:57
  interacting? And that, and there's something
• 45:00
  different that happens as far as will the different clients that
• 45:03
  you work and moving all these different businesses.
• 45:05
  What's the kind of split? As far as I age is concerned and
• 45:10
  who are like more receptive to the ideas and who are less
• 45:13
  receptive? Is there any patterns with that
• 45:15
  concern or anything? This is going to be very general
• 45:19
  stereotypical possibly. I think there's I love working
• 45:24
  with like 20 year olds 22, get over 30 year olds, I love that.
• 45:28
  But for to be honest I love that audience because they're mostly
• 45:30
  read. Most of them are like eager
• 45:32
  receptive. They want to learn, they want to
• 45:35
  be a part of something and I can create an environment where they
• 45:37
  can engage really well and have a lot of fun and learn a lot and
• 45:40
  they can find application. So saying that like that 22
• 45:45
  young 30s, I would say I really love that because there's this
• 45:47
  eagerness about that. If you know and I'm talking
• 45:50
  about mostly corporate kinds of environments that people They
• 45:53
  want to work going to do. Good job, they're motivated to
• 45:55
  do that. So I would say, I really enjoy
• 45:56
  that as well as people get into their ways, and their grooves,
• 46:01
  and their habits, and their patterns, and sometimes as they
• 46:03
  mature and, and go through life, there has a tendency to be a
• 46:07
  little more cynical, unfortunately it.
• 46:10
  So, sometimes it takes a little bit more effort, a little more
• 46:13
  work on my behalf to get them to open up and to consider maybe
• 46:18
  what you're doing now, doesn't work the way it used to work in
• 46:22
  the past. Maybe something needs to change
• 46:24
  a little bit, becomes a little bit harder as you know when
• 46:27
  you're doing something for a long time to make those changes.
• 46:29
  And that's just as human nature belong, we do something harder
• 46:32
  is to make a change. That's the thing.
• 46:34
  No, like and I accepted this years ago, but everything in
• 46:38
  life is subject to change. And while you do get comfortable
• 46:42
  like you always have to remember that it is going to change and
• 46:46
  you will have to adapt like no matter what it is.
• 46:50
  Like the world is always changing and especially at work.
• 46:53
  A place like it's just yeah, you know, I know they say if it
• 46:56
  ain't broke, don't fix it. But that doesn't really apply
• 46:58
  when it comes to things. Like, you know, new technologies
• 47:01
  coming in and replacing old Technologies, or, you know, just
• 47:04
  just finding more efficient ways of doing things than previously
• 47:08
  thought, you know, it's just, yeah, I feel like it's what
• 47:12
  while it might be people getting stuff in and set in their ways.
• 47:14
  I think it's also like a fear of change that they just people not
• 47:18
  wanting to embrace it because they're scared of, you know,
• 47:21
  what might come next. But It can even be better
• 47:24
  sometimes. It can be easier.
• 47:26
  Yeah. Wicker one.
• 47:26
  I think that's who you talking about like, like like, think
• 47:30
  about moving up in an organization from a standpoint
• 47:33
  of influence. So we start, you know, in our
• 47:35
  young career we've kind of got a job.
• 47:37
  I've got my little small area of influence if I do really good
• 47:39
  job with that and have some motivation, I might become a
• 47:42
  supervisor and oversee either projects or people and if I'm
• 47:45
  motivated enough and I have start to accumulate some skills.
• 47:48
  I might get a broader scope of people that I get to oversee and
• 47:51
  if I'm motivated enough with I'm talking about that
• 47:53
  organizations, and I might continue to move up.
• 47:55
  And then I recognize like as you become like, vp's directors, you
• 47:59
  know, owner overseas of large businesses and companies, the
• 48:03
  pressure gets stronger and stronger, like external
• 48:07
  pressures from, from, you know, if your stock your grown by a
• 48:10
  stocks, if you have, you know, their board of directors
• 48:13
  pressures for, you know, terms of making the margins and
• 48:16
  increase and all those kinds of things, the pressures get really
• 48:18
  hard and that pressure then I think causes fear in people, and
• 48:22
  that fear doesn't allow To actually be the best we could be
• 48:24
  in terms of leadership. And so that's, that's the real
• 48:27
  challenge. I have a lot of empathy for
• 48:28
  people who are in positions of leadership that are broad scopes
• 48:32
  of influence, because there's a lot of pressure on that, it's
• 48:35
  really hard. It's really hard to do that.
• 48:37
  Well without, you know, and maintain some sense of like, I
• 48:42
  don't know, it's just really hard to do that.
• 48:45
  Well, because I think it is because there's a ton of
• 48:48
  pressure on that that we don't quite recognize her a thighs
• 48:50
  with a little bit. And how do we take that pressure
• 48:52
  off? A off a little bit.
• 48:55
  I've seen it in certain manages over the years and yeah like
• 48:58
  it's it's like if you think you got it bad with your manager.
• 49:02
  Imagine what you'll want to do is go.
• 49:06
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 49:09
  Things in different ways. You know, I've had that pressure
• 49:13
  but have dealt with it in a positive way.
• 49:15
  So, it's how you deal with these things, and when it goes in,
• 49:20
  that goes it to me, that goes back to how do you lead
• 49:22
  yourself? Well, What good habits do you
• 49:24
  put in your life? What are your core values?
• 49:28
  What are the things you're doing to take care of yourself,
• 49:29
  mentally, emotionally, physically spiritually?
• 49:31
  If that's part of your life to ground yourself.
• 49:35
  So that those pressures don't overwhelm you, then they cause
• 49:39
  unintended consequences within the organization of the people
• 49:42
  you're working with. And to me there's a lot of to be
• 49:45
  said about, how do you lead yourself?
• 49:46
  Well my wife and I are actually talking about a friend of mine
• 49:49
  this morning, who's he's the executive top level?
• 49:53
  Lawyer of a fairly large company like attitudes, pretty chill.
• 49:56
  He's pretty calm like his life seems in order, you know, and
• 50:00
  he's got some, he knows how to leave himself.
• 50:02
  Well, there's a guy that doesn't seem to, you know, take I know.
• 50:06
  I know there's pressures. I know there's challenges and he
• 50:09
  manages it really well, because he's got some core habits and
• 50:12
  his life, core foundations, and things that he takes care of
• 50:15
  himself. So they doesn't allow that to
• 50:17
  overwhelm him. Remember, when I was younger
• 50:20
  older, people would always tell me like, you know, you need To
• 50:23
  remain calm in these situations but when things go see them at
• 50:26
  their most distraught or you know, desperate and you don't
• 50:29
  know what to do and you're panicking like you have.
• 50:32
  That's the most important time to be calm because in that
• 50:35
  moment is when you need to like make the right decisions on your
• 50:39
  next move and if you obviously react to a motion that you can
• 50:42
  make the wrong decision and such but I think that's kind of.
• 50:45
  As you said it's like mastering an art form in a sense that once
• 50:49
  you do that generally speaking it like you're always going to
• 50:51
  be okay. I things will Always work out
• 50:53
  one way or another, because there's a solution to every
• 50:55
  problem, but controlling oneself and not kind of resisting the
• 51:01
  urge to be scared or fearful or Panic, you know that it's hard
• 51:06
  is different. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely
• 51:09
  absolutely, absolutely, no fantastic.
• 51:14
  So you've worked with people from around the world.
• 51:17
  US Canada. Mexico, Brazil, India, and
• 51:20
  Europe. How would you say attitudes?
• 51:23
  Approaches to leadership, differ in these nations.
• 51:25
  Those are any particular ones that stand out and clashes?
• 51:29
  Wow, that's a really good question.
• 51:32
  In terms of think I may do some contrast and comparison.
• 51:38
  I'd probably say the group, the people from another country of
• 51:41
  work with the most is from India.
• 51:43
  Okay. I've gotten travel seven times
• 51:46
  six, seven times do leadership development programs in India.
• 51:49
  So I've gotten to know and I wouldn't say great but at least
• 51:52
  a little bit the culture and And what I've what I've seen it was
• 51:59
  really interesting. Let me see if I can put
• 52:00
  articulate as well. What is the people I work with
• 52:04
  in India? I'll say this is just the people
• 52:06
  I work with said everybody, but the people I got to work with
• 52:08
  were highly motivated and compelled to do a really good
• 52:11
  job. Like I mean, they were super
• 52:13
  motivated like in there they're engaged.
• 52:15
  They want to do a good job. They want to end their private,
• 52:18
  very hospitable and caring. So I saw probably a stronger
• 52:22
  degree of that, and they valued in my work, they valued.
• 52:25
  Learning. So in a so when I have to silat
• 52:28
  ate a group in India, what I would watch these young leaders
• 52:31
  that I would be working with at the end of a session, I'd
• 52:33
  facilitate for a day and so I do multiple days over over a couple
• 52:37
  weeks. I would say probably 80% of
• 52:40
  would walk up to me, look me in the eyes and shake my hand and
• 52:42
  say, thank you. Wow.
• 52:44
  In the u.s. that probably get about 10% we and it's not that's
• 52:49
  just a different culture. Yeah, our culture doesn't say
• 52:52
  that to go up and I don't and I don't judge anybody by that
• 52:55
  either in our culture, an American icon, like I mean, it's
• 52:58
  nice. It's so it's really an
• 53:00
  interesting response to learning and growth.
• 53:03
  Now it also say what's interesting, and I heard I've
• 53:05
  heard this story both from people working with people and I
• 53:08
  don't want to, I want to always be careful culturally in these
• 53:11
  conversations because I never want anything.
• 53:13
  Anybody or say anything is incorrect.
• 53:17
  What I've worked with people in India that there's a tendency, I
• 53:20
  won't tell you if I if I can't, if I don't understand something
• 53:24
  I'm probably not going to tell you.
• 53:25
  I don't understand. They won't tell you they do
• 53:27
  understand it. Tell maybe it's a little too
• 53:29
  late because they want to they want to prove that they know how
• 53:32
  to do it and understand it and so I know there was some tension
• 53:35
  in terms of sometimes work getting done or not getting done
• 53:38
  it's like well if you would have told me a week ago I could have
• 53:40
  helped you. But instead of two it's almost
• 53:42
  like they tell you too late because they don't want to show
• 53:45
  that they don't know how to do it.
• 53:46
  There's a sense of pride in size again.
• 53:48
  Maybe there's part of that. Yeah, there's part of that.
• 53:51
  So I've seen a little bit of that that shows up as well so
• 53:56
  that those are a couple and adducts maybe that I can
• 53:59
  experience with that. I find the core of human beings
• 54:04
  are often very much the same and I try to look to the cool.
• 54:08
  I like kind of look to what are we have the same?
• 54:10
  That's really, really similar when I'm working at different
• 54:12
  cultures you know, they have we have things we love to do
• 54:15
  families. We have Of and passions and
• 54:17
  work. We want to do and I do good job.
• 54:19
  Most people want to do a good job in the works.
• 54:21
  There. They're compelled to do.
• 54:23
  And so I always look for what can I find?
• 54:26
  That's common to two people. I remember I wasn't focused on
• 54:29
  that. I was in California ones and I
• 54:33
  was driving. I don't know, I don't know where
• 54:36
  it was some truck. Stop somewhere in the middle of
• 54:38
  nowhere. It's boiling or, you know, walk
• 54:41
  in there. And I'm amazed that there's air
• 54:43
  conditioning and I'm like, wow! This is my heaven.
• 54:46
  And I was just standing watching the store attendant and and this
• 54:51
  guy talking and I was, I do not and this will sound strange, I
• 54:57
  know, but I was just marveled at the fact that they were having
• 55:00
  such a just normal straightforward conversation
• 55:02
  about just oh, you know, housewife has kids.
• 55:05
  That what's going on, did it? Yeah.
• 55:07
  Yeah. And you just talk and then
• 55:09
  reminded me of that like that the basic kind of things that
• 55:14
  most humans are. Can't care about like the cool
• 55:18
  things are normally the same. Yeah, it will differ in country
• 55:21
  to Country. We've got very different things
• 55:24
  that we're dealing with circumstances, such as yeah.
• 55:27
  But yeah, the fundamentals are normally always the same and
• 55:30
  it's just intriguing, you know? Yeah, I got to work with the
• 55:33
  group. I got to actually reminded me of
• 55:35
  story, got to work with a group of people that had come to the
• 55:37
  United States. But they were from the Middle
• 55:39
  East, several different countries.
• 55:41
  I can't remember the exact ones, but I think it was like, Egypt,
• 55:43
  and Iran and Afghanistan. I mean, several.
• 55:46
  Friendlies, Middle East countries.
• 55:47
  That there's a lot of tension as we know in there.
• 55:50
  And so I get to work with these folks for, I think a half day,
• 55:54
  doing some team, building activities and some exercise and
• 55:56
  having some great conversations having some fun with.
• 55:59
  But also learning a little bit towards the end of the
• 56:01
  conversation or time together. I said hey what's important to
• 56:03
  you? It's simply ask that question
• 56:05
  what's important to you? And it was like across-the-board
• 56:09
  family. Work, Faith Community.
• 56:15
  All right, that was like, okay, that tells you a whole lot of
• 56:18
  and every one of them could pretty much say the exact same
• 56:20
  was like, oh, that I can get those four things, that that I
• 56:25
  can relate on all those levels. Really quick, really easy, and
• 56:28
  no. Now, I might communicate a
• 56:32
  little differently than you and I might have different values or
• 56:35
  different beliefs, than you, and how those all play out.
• 56:38
  But the core of it, those are some Common Come connections
• 56:41
  that we can make with each other.
• 56:45
  When you, when you deal with situations because you must come
• 56:48
  across this where there are within groups, maybe maybe
• 56:53
  people that are clashing people, you know, big personalities,
• 56:57
  people have difficulties with each other or maybe people,
• 57:00
  let's say either cynical or just not receptive to.
• 57:04
  The leadership that is has either been already given or you
• 57:08
  know that is being outlined in these in these programs.
• 57:12
  Yeah. How do you how do you approach
• 57:14
  that? What have you experienced?
• 57:17
  Wow, depends on the how extreme those behaviors are showing up.
• 57:21
  So I've done workshops where we're doing leadership,
• 57:23
  development training. You've got some fairly cynical
• 57:25
  people imagines, cynical person in the workshop.
• 57:29
  I usually it comes across as passive aggressive and there's
• 57:33
  usually come to pots aggressive and sometimes some humor but
• 57:36
  it's derogatory to what we're talking about and that it
• 57:39
  disrupts It disrupts the entire group.
• 57:43
  Alright? So I've seen that happen before
• 57:45
  with the few individuals. And how do you navigate that?
• 57:47
  As a facilitator of a learning experience where I'm trying to
• 57:49
  get people to have the most value in that experience?
• 57:53
  Say, let me that's there. Any particular instances this?
• 57:56
  The standout and like how did you handle them?
• 58:01
  Well, I get one. I'm standing out to me very
• 58:03
  clearly and first of all you try to be kind and generous and
• 58:06
  encourage people to come back and connect with that, that's
• 58:08
  usually my first approach is so I'm not either.
• 58:10
  Want to put anybody on the spot. I don't want to call anybody
• 58:12
  out. I don't want to do that.
• 58:14
  But what I also see is if I set if I say really good
• 58:17
  expectations at the beginning of the session, I can usually keep
• 58:22
  those at Bay. And if I can get people to
• 58:25
  invest in relationship, with one another, I can keep some of
• 58:27
  those passive aggressive behaviors, maybe not to show up
• 58:29
  as much, but if they continue to show up, I'll take a break and
• 58:32
  I'll just walk up to and say, hey, it seems like you don't
• 58:34
  want to be here. It's okay, it's okay.
• 58:38
  If you're not here. I mean seriously.
• 58:41
  It's like no you're right. You're right.
• 58:43
  That's the sound. Like it's challenge by choice in
• 58:45
  my world man. And I know he might be compelled
• 58:47
  like his manager. May be told him beer but I'm
• 58:48
  like hey that's your choice. It appears that you don't want
• 58:51
  to be here, you don't have to be here and just being matter of
• 58:54
  fact I'm not being negative like this is what I see and sometimes
• 58:57
  that'll change that all you just address it directly but it's
• 59:01
  one-on-one. It's a to the side.
• 59:03
  I'm not doing that in front of anybody.
• 59:04
  Yeah, I did that though. Extreme cases where I might and
• 59:08
  I rarely there's a handful of times.
• 59:10
  I've had to have that kind of direct conversation with
• 59:12
  individuals and usually at the beginning of the session, I'll
• 59:15
  say if I feel like there's a sense of people don't want to be
• 59:18
  there, I'll just say you don't have to be here.
• 59:22
  Right? I'm not forcing you to be here.
• 59:24
  It's challenge by choice. You want to leave?
• 59:26
  Leave like that. But that's the reality of life.
• 59:32
  Like, if I wanted in asserts, you have to train others,
• 59:33
  consequences of those choices. Like, if I'm an employee and my
• 59:38
  manager says, you need to go 10 this training, I choose not to
• 59:40
  attend that training, there's consequences, possibly for that
• 59:44
  but it's like I don't I don't need a manager you know to force
• 59:48
  you to be here. This is interesting though.
• 59:52
  Help People like act in these situations as well.
• 59:55
  I gotta, I never forget when I was about 18.
• 59:57
  I did identify mother told the story, so I trained them to be a
• 1:00:03
  steward. Oh, I never actually did it, but
• 1:00:07
  I got the training and I was fresh out of school.
• 1:00:11
  You know, I was kind of just trying to figure out what I
• 1:00:13
  wanted to do. I wasn't going to University
• 1:00:15
  just yet, so it's kind of just like there.
• 1:00:18
  I don't know. It was an opportunity.
• 1:00:20
  I went and I took it seriously, you know.
• 1:00:22
  Fresh out of education, but I still took it seriously, but I
• 1:00:25
  was amazed firstly. Just the mix of people, it was
• 1:00:29
  interesting to be in a sort of a classroom style setting with a
• 1:00:33
  room full of, you know, 20 30, 40, 50, year olds.
• 1:00:37
  And here I am 80, I was youngest in the room by far away, and
• 1:00:42
  there was a really uncomfortable situation where since some Two
• 1:00:46
  Gentlemen to the left of the room were, I don't know what
• 1:00:50
  they were doing, but they singing mucking around.
• 1:00:52
  Joke. Something they just they just
• 1:00:53
  distracted. Rick Ross weapons.
• 1:00:55
  Sorry. And the instructor had to make a
• 1:00:58
  point of saying, like, Hey, listen, stop doing that.
• 1:01:03
  Like, the, and he made a point of saying, like, you, we're all
• 1:01:08
  adults here, like this is, you don't need to be doing this.
• 1:01:11
  And then there's this is kind of like are of awkwardness in the
• 1:01:13
  room. Oh yeah.
• 1:01:15
  Just like, because I could get away if that was me.
• 1:01:18
  I could get away with that at that age because I was 18.
• 1:01:21
  And it still wouldn't have been Septuple, but it was very easy.
• 1:01:23
  He's young, he's being silly, right?
• 1:01:25
  But this was like a guy in his like mid-30s.
• 1:01:27
  And it's like, and I imagine many of those instances that you
• 1:01:34
  spoke about a similar to that sometimes where it.
• 1:01:36
  Yeah, it might just be a lack of maturity and it's like reality.
• 1:01:40
  How do you approach that, you know?
• 1:01:41
  Yeah, sometimes, yeah, I don't know with the adult age you
• 1:01:44
  don't have is there's not as many of those challenges within
• 1:01:47
  the things that I do. I don't have that, but they can
• 1:01:49
  show up. You Jutsu name work with.
• 1:01:51
  I don't work with kids. Anymore but the kids as
• 1:01:53
  behaviors show up and you have to address them directly and
• 1:01:57
  help them navigate that that's just maturity, right?
• 1:01:59
  That's just growing up in that. So what would you say the
• 1:02:03
  biggest Takeaways lessons from studying leadership that you've
• 1:02:10
  learned. At this good after pause.
• 1:02:21
  There's tons of them man. Wow, I love it when this
• 1:02:27
  happens. Yeah, no.
• 1:02:28
  There's there's so many things are going through my mind.
• 1:02:30
  We're going to ask that what are the biggest most important
• 1:02:33
  things. And and it goes back to
• 1:02:38
  relationships, okay? With leadership.
• 1:02:40
  If it truly is, we're talking about leadership.
• 1:02:43
  It is about a relationship with other people.
• 1:02:47
  It isn't me just managing stuff. Moving stuff and getting people
• 1:02:51
  to do stuff. It's about engaging in a
• 1:02:53
  relationship with, with individuals now that
• 1:02:55
  relationship and that relationship, I have to consider
• 1:02:59
  after consider like Vision. Like, I think I have to consider
• 1:03:01
  future State, what's the future state that I'm helping people
• 1:03:05
  move towards in that relationship.
• 1:03:07
  What am I helping you move towards that relationship?
• 1:03:09
  How am I helping myself? Move towards that direction?
• 1:03:12
  And is there a way we can do that together?
• 1:03:13
  Right? And in that relationship?
• 1:03:15
  So part of that is like where we going in that relationship.
• 1:03:19
  I also have to think about, I have to think about in that
• 1:03:22
  relationship. I have to think about how am I
• 1:03:25
  helping grow and develop the other person or myself in their
• 1:03:29
  relationship. I mean, it could be mutually
• 1:03:30
  beneficial, how can we help grow and develop in that relationship
• 1:03:34
  as well? So we have to have, what's the
• 1:03:35
  future that we're moving towards and has that relationship could
• 1:03:39
  tell a story. How do we help grow and develop
• 1:03:41
  in that relationship and what we're trying to learn how to do
• 1:03:43
  and accomplish? I think that's really important
• 1:03:46
  and then I think there's also just stability.
• 1:03:48
  How do you create stability? Latina relationship so that you
• 1:03:51
  function well, you know. And so there's some consistency
• 1:03:56
  if I know and understand. And I know there's some sense of
• 1:03:58
  like I know you're going to treat me well, and you're going
• 1:04:01
  to die. I'm going to treat you well and
• 1:04:02
  we have certain ways that we interact together and I'm not
• 1:04:04
  going to be surprised by those and too much.
• 1:04:07
  I mean we may be surprised sometimes but and if I hurt you
• 1:04:10
  and you then I can and you hurt me somehow which will happen.
• 1:04:13
  How do we navigate that conversation?
• 1:04:15
  All right, and it's going to happen at every relationship at
• 1:04:18
  some point. Is going to be some tension or
• 1:04:20
  some hurt, that's going to happen and I navigate that.
• 1:04:22
  So it goes some way it goes. Back to, how do I continue to
• 1:04:25
  nurture, develop, and uphold those relationships, the best
• 1:04:28
  that I can, and whatever, Endeavor I'm going.
• 1:04:31
  What I'm are working on as well. And at some points that
• 1:04:34
  relationship might mean, I have to let you go do something else.
• 1:04:40
  Or you have to let me go do something else because that's
• 1:04:42
  beneficial for both of us as well and that that's that's hard
• 1:04:46
  so I'd say those are it comes back to that off.
• 1:04:49
  That's rocket science or anything else but if it comes
• 1:04:51
  back to leadership is the relationship and then you put
• 1:04:54
  that in the context of all the other components that I think
• 1:04:57
  you'll I think people will be more successful in that time.
• 1:04:59
  How they influence, others? Great stuff.
• 1:05:03
  Final questions for you Kirby completely unrelated to
• 1:05:06
  leadership. All right, let's do it.
• 1:05:10
  What is happiness to you? And I don't deep deep, man.
• 1:05:19
  I'm gonna give you my I'm going to give you my I'll give you my
• 1:05:22
  Christian answer. You are Christian but this is a
• 1:05:24
  as a Christian is a follower of Jesus, it's glorifying.
• 1:05:27
  God worshiping God, that brings me joy.
• 1:05:30
  When that when I see that happening and oftentimes for me,
• 1:05:33
  that's a music. Like I love, I love music.
• 1:05:36
  You were playing writing singing, so there's there's
• 1:05:39
  like, a complete place of happiness or joy.
• 1:05:41
  I'd A and in that, when those thing, when those two things are
• 1:05:44
  emerging together for me that that's a happy joyful place.
• 1:05:49
  Yeah, what's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:05:58
  I will go back to my grandfather.
• 1:06:00
  I'll give you a little bit of story.
• 1:06:01
  This sets us up my grandfather, lived in Southern Iowa, the
• 1:06:06
  rural area, his my grandmother passed away at this point with
• 1:06:11
  kind of Anna farming, kind of area, but not a farm necessarily
• 1:06:14
  and I'd heard and I hear, you know, it's about two hours from
• 1:06:16
  where I live. And so I'd heard he wasn't doing
• 1:06:18
  well. So I thought I'm gonna drive up
• 1:06:19
  and see him. And so, I'm on my car driving up
• 1:06:23
  there, thinking about what I make, what am I expecting to see
• 1:06:26
  my grandfather when I get there? And I'm thinking he's probably
• 1:06:28
  Be laying in bed, you know? Probably not doing a whole lot.
• 1:06:33
  I drive back to the gravel roads and up to the road where he's
• 1:06:36
  living and he's out on his lawn mower.
• 1:06:39
  Mowing the lawn and I'm like, I get out of the car.
• 1:06:43
  I literally go Grand dad, what are you doing?
• 1:06:46
  And he these are the words he told me said, if you're going to
• 1:06:49
  live, you gotta be living. And that day he could he could
• 1:06:55
  get on his lawn mower at 90 some years old and mow his lawn.
• 1:07:00
  He's gonna if you're gonna live, you got to be living and I was
• 1:07:02
  what he could do that to his go mows Lawns.
• 1:07:04
  Like that's really good advice. If I'm going to live I got to be
• 1:07:07
  living. So there you go.
• 1:07:09
  I'd say that's probably one of the best advice I ever got.
• 1:07:11
  So, you know, whatever you can do that day.
• 1:07:13
  The live go live and live it. Well.
• 1:07:17
  Amazing. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:07:20
  you've learned so far? And this is girly.
• 1:07:37
  These are good. Ones is a good car.
• 1:07:38
  You got some good ones and biggest life lesson.
• 1:07:40
  So, whatever kind of think of the big, big life lessons, okay?
• 1:07:43
  I'll give you. I'll give you this one that I
• 1:07:45
  think is a constant constantly learning.
• 1:07:46
  This one is forgiveness. Hmm.
• 1:07:52
  Like like like, how to be forgiven and to forgive because
• 1:07:58
  all unforgiveness does is just eat at you and tear you up.
• 1:08:03
  And yeah, and whether you're holding that towards somebody
• 1:08:06
  Else or somebody's holding that towards you or have you're
• 1:08:08
  experiencing that I'd say. Yeah, that's something that we
• 1:08:11
  do. We don't, yeah, I'd say that's
• 1:08:13
  yeah. How do we, how do we continue to
• 1:08:16
  live that out? And if I'm holding unforgiveness
• 1:08:19
  towards somebody, how do I find forgiveness?
• 1:08:21
  Or if somebody, if that's towards me, how do I reach out
• 1:08:24
  and try to find forgiveness in that relationship?
• 1:08:26
  So, yeah, I would say that's I'd be the lesson right there.
• 1:08:30
  I mean, perfect one. I think it's a great one.
• 1:08:34
  Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean I think that not just
• 1:08:37
  forgiveness but a lot of things in life like when you When you
• 1:08:43
  learn to kind of just let go of certain things, it's like a
• 1:08:48
  physical weight has just been lifted off your shoulders as I
• 1:08:52
  feel forgiven forgiveness. It's like, it's like, it's like,
• 1:08:56
  if you are the one forgiving, someone you might feel feelings
• 1:09:00
  of anger and hatred towards that person, but when you forgive
• 1:09:04
  them, I guarantee you will feel better.
• 1:09:08
  Yeah, and I think it's because of this, like, idea of Maybe
• 1:09:13
  being more than we are better than them.
• 1:09:16
  We are better than we think we can be maybe.
• 1:09:21
  Yeah, that's good. Good.
• 1:09:23
  So, it's, ya know, I've had a great time talking with you
• 1:09:28
  learning about everything that you're involved with, when it
• 1:09:32
  comes to leadership, and just in general, massive, thank you for
• 1:09:36
  appearing on the show. Do you have any upcoming
• 1:09:38
  thoughts or so upcoming projects or final thoughts?
• 1:09:41
  You'd like to share Yeah, I mean I'll do it going to do a little
• 1:09:45
  bit of self-promotion. I'm not huge and self-promotion
• 1:09:47
  that a, you know, if people I know listening this needs
• 1:09:50
  support in terms of their leadership development.
• 1:09:53
  I love to have those conversations.
• 1:09:55
  I love a love helping, people think through that whether it's
• 1:09:58
  in their organizations, or one-on-one and coaching
• 1:10:01
  relationships. And now, with our great world,
• 1:10:04
  we can communicate with people all across the world which is
• 1:10:07
  fantastic. So yeah, so yeah, feel free
• 1:10:09
  people, feel free to reach out to me.
• 1:10:13
  The letter k letter, c.com lead, Casey is my website address, you
• 1:10:17
  can reach through that LinkedIn. I'm out there, Todd long
• 1:10:20
  leadership Innovations, you can connect with me on that and so I
• 1:10:23
  just offer that up. People are listening to this and
• 1:10:26
  want to reach out and connect and have conversations and want
• 1:10:28
  to think about this in more. I'm very happy.
• 1:10:30
  I love to do that. I love that this conversation.
• 1:10:32
  So thank you so much for letting me be on the show asking great
• 1:10:34
  questions and listening. Well and telling your stories
• 1:10:37
  man, I have to say it's been a pleasure.
• 1:10:39
  Thank you sir, massive pleasure to have you on the show and
• 1:10:43
  Forward to the next time that we talk.
• 1:10:45
  Yeah, it may give you some encouragement, since you don't
• 1:10:47
  get a lot of Praise. You said that earlier, you have
• 1:10:49
  a great voice, you're very articulate.
• 1:10:52
  And you have great open-ended questions and you're doing a
• 1:10:54
  fantastic job. Let's say, I definitely get a
• 1:10:57
  little praise now, and I'll have to just say that that because it
• 1:11:01
  is easy said that, I know that people are gonna hang on.
• 1:11:03
  I tell him all the time. I got a lot of Praises support,
• 1:11:07
  and I'm very thankful, and thank you for that compliment.
• 1:11:10
  Thank you to everyone. That's always really supportive
• 1:11:12
  and lovely. What I was talking about was
• 1:11:14
  earlier when I was, when I was a lot younger and also in the
• 1:11:17
  workplace as well. I think that but you know, I
• 1:11:20
  think it--yeah it extends to all areas of life you know you need
• 1:11:25
  constant. Reassurance positive
• 1:11:29
  reinforcement. Yeah.
• 1:11:30
  Even just the little things being told like, oh well done
• 1:11:33
  making dinner. I don't know like, why don't you
• 1:11:35
  know? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:36
  That's nice to hear it. Makes you feel better.
• 1:11:39
  It keeps you going keeps him out of it.
• 1:11:41
  Well done. You sir, thank you sir.
• 1:11:44
  Yeah, absolutely. Have a great day and to all the
• 1:11:46
  listeners of the Christian re podcast as always.
• 1:11:48
  Thank you for listening, be safe.
• 1:11:50
  Be well and I'll see you in the next one.