Latest / The Failure Gap / A Conversation With Dr. Martine Canal, Founder of Self-Care Genius
Transcript
- Speaker 2 (00:00) Hello and welcome to The Failure Gap, where we talk with leaders about closing the space between agreement and alignment. We love talking with interesting people and today we're joined by Dr. Martine Canal. Dr. Martine is a self-care strategist and registered nurse with over 25 years of experience. She helps women over 40 reduce stress and prioritize wellbeing. As the founder of Self-Care Genius, best-selling author of Radiant Living and host of Wellness to Success. she shares practical self-care strategies to create balance and lasting health. passionate traveler and wellness advocate, she empowers women to thrive in all areas of their lives. Dr. Martine, welcome to the Failure Gap. Speaker 1 (00:42) thank you, thank you, Julie, for having me. I'm excited, excited to be here. Speaker 2 (00:46) Yeah, I'm so delighted that we were able to make this happen. And you know, I always love to start our podcast with by giving the guest an opportunity just to share with our listeners a little bit about your journey to where you are today as a bestselling author, the host of a podcast and the founder of Self Care Genius. What led you to this place in time? Speaker 1 (01:06) Well, Julie, this all started from hardship. I can tell you that I was not the, back then, I was not the one who would take care of herself, even though I was a nurse working and taking care of others, but I was not doing the same to myself. So that's one day I had this epiphany where I said, if I don't do anything about how I was feeling, how I was acting, that I would end up being in the hospital bed and ending up just like my mother who had a stroke because she was not taking care of herself. She had a massive stroke and that fear came upon me and that prompted me to make a massive shift. I said, this is not gonna happen to me. I do not wanna live like this. Speaker 2 (01:57) Yeah. And then you just embarked on this whole new adventure. How old were you when that pivot happened? I just asked because part of your brand is around women over 40. Speaker 1 (02:07) Well, this, happened when I was in my 40s actually. When my mother had her stroke, she was in early 40s and I was 16 years old back then. And then when now, when I was in my 40s, I had this fear that what happened to her would happen to me. And that's when I just pivoted. I was in my 40s. Speaker 2 (02:31) I'm so sorry that that happened with your mother and I'm also really grateful for you that you discovered this path to wellness and that you're now sharing your message with the world because I think it's such an important thing for all people to hear but especially within the demographic that you target of women over 40. I think there's a lot of people who fall short in that self-care space. Speaker 1 (02:53) Yes, and I was really targeting people like me because we are breadwinners, overachievers. We have everything, but we always, as I call it, hustling. And then we always taking care of everybody else and then we tend to neglect our own self. So this is why I'm out there sharing the message. I mean, here with you today, Julie, I'm sharing my message. So hear me. Speaker 2 (03:17) We're gonna get the news out there. You know, I do have to say though, it is ironic that so many nurses struggle with this and doctors and know, people who see firsthand what happens when you don't take care of yourself, they really struggle in that space too. you know, someone who is really deep in the system, I'm so glad that you picked your head up and looked around and said, I need to do something different. Speaker 1 (03:39) Yes, yes, and it's not, it's essential that we do it. It's not just luxury, we have to do it. Speaker 2 (03:48) Yeah. Well, I find when it comes to closing the failure gap, the space between agreement and alignment, that we struggle with this in ways large and small. And sometimes it's kind of fun to hear from the guests about some things that you've experienced in your own life where you've tried to move from agreement that you would like to do something or it would be good idea and getting into alignment and actually doing it. And maybe we, know, park the wellness, we'll come back to it in just a second, but I'm curious, is there something that you can share with folks about how you've navigated this space for yourself that just helps us understand some of the lessons learned around it. Speaker 1 (04:25) Well, at the time that this happened to me, Julie, I was at a point in my life where I had already achieved the highest level as a nurse. So I was always in, I believe in education and I was always striving for more. And once I achieve that level, I was like, what else can I do? So I actually registered in medical school. So I was working full time, going to medical school, just trying to achieve. more and more and more. And then that's when at one point I realized that this is not what I really wanted because you have to ask yourself, what do you truly want? What do you want when you look back at your life, say, okay, I accomplished this and I'm so proud of it. And for me at that point, it was just trying to show off and trying to show that I can accomplish more degrees. I can have more... you know, education behind me, all these letters behind me. And when I was in medical school, just trying to juggle it all, I realized that no, no, this was not in alignment with what I truly wanted. And I had to really take the time, Julie, to sit down and truly look into myself and look into my inner thoughts and say, okay, what do I truly want? And that's when from there I did this assessment. this core assessment. And then I took off and said, okay, I did not continue with medical school, as you can see. I just signed off of it. And then even in my work, even though I was overachiever, I needed to work a lot. I love to work. I love to help people. But I found another way that would include taking care of me, part of my routine, so that I can be the best Me like a bee. Speaker 2 (06:25) You know, I can only imagine, I think there's a lot of, it's easy to agree that we should follow these steps that society lays out for us, right? Like keep moving forward, keep getting higher, keep getting more degrees, keep doing whatever. And we just get on that treadmill and forget to stop and say, is this serving me? Is this really, is this also how I'm best in service? Not only is it serving me, but is it how I'm best in service? Speaker 1 (06:49) Right. And then if you don't pay attention, this can affect all the areas of your life. to my family, a relationship, they were affected. I mean, it was just a lot and my cup was overflowing. Speaker 2 (07:07) But not with the right things, right? It was overflowing with the wrong things. Yeah. So tell me this, though. I think I can't even imagine what it must have been like in that moment. It's easy, again, to say I need to take better care of myself. But when the actions that are required include telling your friends and family and your professional colleagues and everybody else, I'm leaving medical school because it's not working for me anymore. Speaker 1 (07:11) It was wrong things. Speaker 2 (07:34) Tell me a little bit about that moment because I think that that might feel a little overwhelming for people, right? The idea of telling people, not orienting towards that as a failure, but as a way of saving yourself and becoming stronger in yourself. Speaker 1 (07:49) Right, so you have to recognize what your needs are. And from then, you'll be able to adjust and you can actually start with small steps. For example, like the medical school, yes, I had to radically just drop out and I said, no, I cannot do that. But, Julie, not a lot of people knew that I was medical school. So in terms of in my family and in my surrounding, my community, I didn't feel like it was a failure. I mean, I failed myself because I wanted to achieve that level and be able to succeed that way. But not a lot of people knew, but what truly that I had to learn, and this is with small steps, I had to learn to say no. I had to create boundaries around me. And that happened, you know, over time. where it didn't seem like I was shutting anybody out, right? So this is how I create, and I had a wall around me before, and now I allowed people to come in, people that really were in my best interest, okay? So I created boundaries for the people that were just draining me and allowed other people that would support me in all the endeavors that, because this was something new for me, even though I was in the healthcare field, but self-development, self-love, this was all new. I had to learn how to do this. Speaker 2 (09:29) I think it's new for a lot of people. And I think we think that we are supporting ourselves or nurturing ourselves when we push ourselves to achieve things. But sometimes we lose sight of the fact that that achievement might not be actually what we want to do anymore. And that's okay. Like it's okay to change your mind. It's okay to want to go in a different direction. It's okay to change your mind about a person who's in your life, right? There's all sorts of things that are. okay that we're a little conditioned to believe we have to just kind of stick with it or stick it out. And I think there is power in that. I always remember when I was a little kid, you I had a coach or a parent or somebody said to me, if you want to quit the sport, you know, quit on a good day, don't quit on a bad day. And so you want to make sure that you're doing it for the right reasons, but it is okay to, it is okay to walk away sometimes and to take care of yourself and to prioritize yourself. And I think that's what you do so beautifully in the work that you put out in the world through both your podcast and your book and the work that you do as a coach now. And tell us a little bit about that, standing up a new company. And that's another thing people say, I really want to do that, but they don't do it. Speaker 1 (10:36) Well, believe me, if I had not made that mindset shift back then, I wouldn't have accomplished whatever I have now. Look at me. I'm very proud of what I've accomplished. Speaker 2 (10:47) And you radiate that. Speaker 1 (10:49) I've written two books, so fine, I'll have a turn on the way. And it's all about sharing my message. It's all about serving others so they can realize that them also, they can live their best life. So I've started this company, which is called Self Care Genius, where we empower women to elevate their health, social, physical, mental. so that they can decrease stress or overwhelmed and prevent burnout. Because if you are stressed out, you're overwhelmed, you're not gonna be able to live your best life. I don't think so. You're not gonna... productive or meaningful life. You have to recognize that you have to do what's important for you, what is of value to you. Speaker 2 (11:31) Or do your best work, right? So I love this. I love this, Martine, for the failure gap, because it is how many people do we know who are in this failure gap? Where they say, I need to take better care of myself. Yeah. And they don't. And they don't do it. They don't move into alignment around that. What is it that gets in the way, in particular, of your demographic, women over 40, what gets in the way of people getting into alignment and doing the work to take better care of themselves? Speaker 1 (12:11) Well, they've got to tell you Julie that life happens. I understand life happens for everyone. But then it's how you deal with those situations. You have a family, I understand that. But before you had that family, was you. So now they're coming into your world. So you have to make sure that you organize yourself in a way that you have time for them, but you also have time for yourself. If you have to wake up a little earlier in the morning just to take that me time, you do so. This is what I do with me. I'm still very busy. I work a lot. So what did I do? I wake up like in the beginning was 15 minutes and then 30 minutes and then now 45 minutes earlier so I can have my practice, my exercise on or just some meditation. I take that time for me. I know my kids, they're not gonna wake up early. They're not. Right? Or on your way home, you can make a little detour or park and just do a little bit of walking. You take that time for you before you get to what you have to do as a mother or as a wife or husband or, you know, anything. Or what you do if you're a very busy woman and you have your phone. So what you do... You put it in your calendar, you set it up as a meeting for you. And that you have to make sure that you commit to that meeting for you. Either you go to the gym or you go swimming or you do whatever you need, that you do what you love. I always mention do what you love because then you'll be consistent with that. Speaker 2 (14:00) Yeah, it can't be something that's an effort to get to. You talked earlier that for yourself, a big part of being able to get aligned to your purpose was being able to establish better boundaries and be able to say no to things. And I suspect that for women, your clients, and the people who read your book and so forth, that that might be something that really holds them back from getting aligned, is that they struggle to say no. Speaker 1 (14:03) as a chore. Speaker 2 (14:30) to all of the things that can encroach on that time that you're talking about protecting right now. Tell me a little bit about that challenge. Speaker 1 (14:39) Well, saying no is a skill that you have to learn to do. And again, you start small because you're going to be uncomfortable, but you cannot be guilty for taking care of yourself because if something happens to you, everybody else around you will keep on living their best life and you will be stuck with the disability. And this is exactly what happened to my mom. She was a professional. of a vivacious woman. She was also a nurse, but yet once she suffered from that massive stroke, left her paralyzed on the left side of her body, well guess what? She became dependent. She went from being independent to dependent, to losing her voice, her power, but yet we as her children, her family, We kept on going on and living our best life and she was stuck in the hospital. Speaker 2 (15:40) think that's such a wonderful reminder to people that self-care is about also taking care of the people around you by taking care of yourself and setting yourself up for success. Speaker 1 (15:50) And you can be the role model. You can be the leader. Because once they see that you do it, and you do it in an efficient way, then they will want to do it too. They will want to do it too. Speaker 2 (16:04) I really liked too that you're giving us some, what I would call nudges. At Karrikins Group, we like to talk about nudges, not shoves. Like shoves don't really work all that well, but if you nudge people along, eventually they start going in a different direction. And you're talking about small things that people can do right away to start to change the trajectory. You we always think about, know, a me day sounds like such a luxury. Well, you don't need a whole day. Maybe you just need 15 minutes. Like, what does that look like? How do you start to bring those things forward? What are? some of the things that you suggest for people to take those first steps from agreeing that this is a good idea to getting aligned and living their lives a little differently. What are some of the nudges that are really helpful? You mentioned calendaring. Is there anything else that you suggest to people? Speaker 1 (16:48) Well, if you're working in an environment that is very stressful, then you'd need to set yourself. I was talking about creating your environment, then setting yourself out of that environment, that stressful environment for just 10, 15, 30 minutes, your lunch break, stepping outside in nature and just kind of re-grounding yourself and re-energizing, get your power back. and then have these mindful exercises so you can become clear again, have that clarity. When you go back, then you'll be able to perform at a higher level. I said, I'm gonna finish my day in a productive way. This is what I'm gonna accomplish. And you go back and you do it. When you go to the bathroom, this is a good, perfect time to do a little bit of squat because you're doing that exercise will energize you. Yeah, and then what? You do some squatting in the bathroom and then you go back like nothing happened. But yeah, you're thinking more clearly and you have more energy. Speaker 2 (17:49) Wash your hands. can do some squats. You know, I think all of us are totally willing to plug our phones in when the battery's dying, but we're not willing to recharge ourselves when our power's running low. So it's a great reminder that small things can really help you to recenter and rebalance and be able to focus and deliver better when you go back. Speaker 1 (18:21) When I feel like I'm a little fatigued or I feel like I'm low in energy, I go and take the stairs. The steps, they'll pump back that energy into you and allow you to finish the rest of your day if you're tired. Speaker 2 (18:29) Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've talked about the barrier or the blocker to alignment of saying no. I'm curious also, I feel like probably a common blocker for people is feeling selfish. Feeling like if I do this, then that's too selfish of me. Tell me a little bit about how that shows up with the people that you work with or even for yourself. I feel like as we're having this conversation, some of these things sound really good, but they also I had this mental model around it being a little selfish to have this time for myself. Speaker 1 (19:14) Well, it is not, I can tell you that it is not selfish. It's a necessity that you need to recharge your body. Just like you're taking care of a car on a monthly basis or just like what you're doing with your car, you have to take care of your body. It's a must because if you don't take care of yourself, something is gonna break down. You have to learn to listen to your body. Your body is speaking to you. So taking the time to listen to it is not selfish. It's you assessing your body because if let's say, for example, you keep having this headache, which is what I had to back at the day, I keep having this headache, but I keep pushing on the side, then your body will find a way to make you listen. So it's not selfish for you to take care of yourself and listen to your body. Because again, if you do not take care of yourself, your body will make you listen. Some may or may not. Speaker 2 (20:21) Yeah, it'll speak up loudly when it needs to. Speaker 1 (20:23) And then guess what? Then you're going to say you're selfish because you're in the hospital? No, you won't say that. Speaker 2 (20:29) Yeah, well then it'll be a little too late, right? Yeah. So when you think about this idea of moving from agreement to alignment and getting people to really take action on taking better care of themselves, when you think about self-care genius and some of the things that you're trying to really promote for people, what comes to mind for you as something you'd really love to see people lean into or you'd love to see people just embrace Speaker 1 (20:32) Correct. Speaker 2 (20:57) the opportunity to do two or three things for themselves that would help them get aligned to this goal. Speaker 1 (21:06) Well, first, I always say you have to acknowledge. This is why I'm talking about it so much. You have to acknowledge that you have to prioritize yourself and take care of you. Once you do that, then I want to see them create an environment and it does not have to be going to the spa or even going to the gym. Just setting the time for you, stepping away from a stressful environment, you can do that. And then by doing what they love, do what you love. If you do that, you'll be consistent. And then as you, the consistency grows, it will become a habit. And then eventually you'll just do it without even thinking. So my goal right now is to spread the message. I see it as a movement and I can see it's working around me already. Everybody that I see now is like, wait, what did you do for self care today? What did you do for self care today? That's signature phrase. Because sometimes you need that person to just remind you. what did I do? nothing yet. Did I drink my water? No. Did I, you know, pray today? No. You know, just a little thing that makes you, you. Speaker 2 (22:20) So acknowledge, find the time. Speaker 1 (22:23) Set the environment and doing what you love. Speaker 2 (22:25) Set the environment and do what you love so that you're self-fueling yourself when you're doing what you love. So tell me a little bit about when people say, what have you done for self-care today? What are some of the things that come to mind that would be fun for people to think about that they might not be thinking about naturally? You just mentioned, for example, drinking water. I find that really refuels me when I get a glass of water in me. What are some of the things that are easily accessible to people? Speaker 1 (22:51) You know, this is a struggle even for me sometimes when I'm so busy, sometimes I forget to drink water. So even though I'm preaching, but I have to do it myself. I see a lot of people not drinking enough water and then just meditating or having the mental capacity to decrease the level of stress because life is very stressful no matter what. You can have good stress and bad stress, but we're not even going to there. But being able to decrease your level of stress is very important because that will impede how you think. You know, it will cloud your mind. And something Speaker 2 (23:38) It's of what I'm hearing. Speaker 1 (23:41) And can deep breathing, had this lady that I call Dr. Breath. She taught me how to just hold, inhale for three and then exhale for five. And then as you're doing that, you just release all the tension in your body. And then you do that a couple of times and you could see how you feel a little lighter. And then things that you see were challenging to you may not. look at the way you look at things sometimes is different if you are in a more positive state of mind. Speaker 2 (24:19) Breathing makes such a huge difference, a discipline around breathing. I'd encourage anybody who's trying to get better around self-care to do some education around breathing and the impact that it can have. Anything else that are the small things that people can do every day? Listen to me. Speaker 1 (24:35) Listening to music and the kind of music you listen to is important. You know, if you're feeling hyper, stressed out, then any calming music, any slow kind of music can help you. But if you need to be energized because, I don't know, you're gonna perform something and you need that energy, you need to elevate to the next level that you know you can be, any music that will pump you up. Yeah, you can do that. Or even to go exercise. Sometimes you need something that will pump you up to entice you to go and exercise. Speaker 2 (25:11) So what I'm hearing is there's a lot of small things that we can be thinking about in addition to the big things. Like you started off this conversation sharing a huge change that you made to your life to take better care of yourself. Leaving medical school, actually stepping into running your own business, starting self-care genius, writing a book. Those are big things that people can also be inspired to undertake for themselves as they think about. Where do I wanna go to take better care of myself so that my wellbeing is prioritized as much as all of the care that I put out in the world for others? So when you think about some of the people that you've worked with, there any stories you can tell about people who've done a big change that is just an inspiration for you and maybe for others to be thinking about, you're not stuck. You can actually find your way towards a different future. Speaker 1 (26:05) Well, Julie, the most important thing is to surround yourself with people who believe the same way you do. Go into a community of like-minded individuals who will support you, inspire you, motivate you to keep doing what you do, which is self-care. Okay, because it's sometimes hard if you are in the middle of people that are not believing in what you do and will kind of influence, you know, or how you react and how you act. So finding yourself in those environments, this is what I did, I actually did. And I reached out to coaches, I had mentors that like lost a lot of weight by doing activities like exercising the natural way. This is what I believe that I wanna do for myself. Like, you know, doing the hard way, exercising. watching what you eat, and then just mingling with these people so that we can support each other and then call, have this, what we call accountability partner to support us in case, sometimes you may go to an area and then you have temptation. And then you call that person up and then they're like, okay, just step away or do something. And then, and also sometimes Julie, it's okay to cheat. It's okay to cheat, but then the next day you go right back to what you believe in. But surrounding yourself with the right people, it's important. Speaker 2 (27:40) Yeah, and hearing that if you are looking to get aligned to a big goal, getting a community around you is really important and helpful. Yeah, yeah. I know that you love to travel, and I'm just curious. When you think about the places that you've been around the world, and you've seen people, you've met people, you've interacted with them, what do you think are some of the ways that in other cultures outside of the United States, people orient towards self-care or think about that? that aspect of how they manage their lives. Anything that comes to mind for you? Speaker 1 (28:14) Well, I use self-care, I mean travel, as self-care practices for me. Okay, so I go to different areas and I tend to go into the community. I do not like to see with the terrorist areas. I go in to embed myself into the culture and learn their ways of taking care of themselves. having, I remember going to, is it Thailand? And they had me go into this mud bath with those minerals. It was a mud bath that I had to take and I enjoyed every minute of it. But then at the same time, they were chanting around me. So they wanted me to just ease my mind. All that talking, instant talking that I had no, I had to relax. And then at the end of that, they put me in this river, this fall. this waterfall and to be reenergized. So they had you kind of go relax and they get reenergized. and those are practices that I really believe can make a difference. I, if I can find a place here to do it, I would do it. Right. And then I talk about it. Or when I went to Aruba and talk about aloe. so all the aloe plants. Yeah. The aloe plant. Speaker 2 (29:28) Yeah. Speaker 1 (29:41) So I go there and I find ways that they are, you know, their self-care practices that they really believe in, that not only that they do experience, but I can share back here. And I talk about it in my podcast or any kind of life that I do because I really like to show others what it is that they do in the world. It's not just here in America. Speaker 2 (30:10) And that there's different practices and different disciplines and different cultures that we can learn from that help you to be really present in your moment. Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I do think that travel is such a wonderful way to also have some time to take care of yourself if you enjoy travel. I think it's. Speaker 1 (30:26) Yeah, and then I did do a little webinar the other day on how you cannot let traveling be stressful, you know, for you because you're trying to do so much in such a little amount of time, but you have to, for, you know, for someone who's looking for self-care practices and to use self-care, you know, traveling as a self-care practice, you know, there are ways that you can travel. and come back re-energized and confident and all of that and not stressed and need a vacation from your vacation. Speaker 2 (31:05) Exactly, I was going to say, I always feel sad when people come back and they're just so burned out from their vacation and you think, well, that didn't work all that well. So I appreciate that. And I just want to give a shout out to your podcast, which is Wellness to Success. And so I think anybody who's looking for additional insights or tips or ways of thinking about this can tune in to Wellness to Success and also your book Radiant Living as an option too, something to check out. want to make sure that people know that there are resources out there to be able to top into the brilliance of the self-care genius. And also obviously your business, the self-care genius as a coach, I think you work with clients to really help them to figure out how this can work for them. And do you maybe want to take a minute and share a little bit about the self-care genius approach and what you're doing there? Speaker 1 (31:54) Well, the way that I do it, I start with an assessment because we cannot go somewhere if we don't know we come from. So the first step is to do a self-assessment. And then once you notice the areas in your life that you need to focus on, then we move and we plan. Once we plan and then everything is individualized because we all live different lives. So it has to be able to fit in. into your schedule because if not, you're not going to do it. So, and I'm here to help you along so that you make sure that you reach the goals that you set out in the beginning. And at one point, you take action, I'm here to make sure you take action. And then we evaluate. Evaluate. Is it working? If not, then we go back again to the self-off-members. So this is like a full circle. Okay. But... As, again, accountability, we, and Alec, then know, so I'm still working on myself. It's always a continual circle, but we have to keep elevating ourselves. Speaker 2 (33:07) Absolutely at Carrickans group we talk about being in pursuit of better We're always in pursuit of better for ourselves and for our company and for our clients And I think if you lose that spark if you lose that passion then you need to take a look at what you're doing and make sure you have it's still your right line Yeah, it's still the right place for you. Yeah. Yeah Well, and we always ask at the end of these podcasts for people to share with us if you could get the world aligned to one thing What would it be? And I feel like I know what your answer is going to be, but I'm going to give you a minute to share your thinking on what you would love to see the world, people out in the world aligned to, and you just sort of take on for themselves, move from agreement that it's a good idea to getting aligned and getting going on it. So what do you think about that? Speaker 1 (33:52) We are very busy. We are all busy because we are achieving different things, but we have got to prioritize ourselves and put ourselves first. Listen to our body and put ourselves first. Practice self-care because we deserve, we all are entitled to live a productive and meaningful life because we need to live our best life. So practice self-care. This is what I want to say. Yeah. Speaker 2 (34:19) real doing it. yeah, and that it's not selfish and it's okay to say no. And once you've acknowledged where you are and you've started to carve out the time, then you can really lean into holding yourself accountable and doing things in small ways as well as big things. There's a lot of small things that you can do that will help you to lean into this idea of self-care. Speaker 1 (34:43) Absolutely. Speaker 2 (34:45) Yeah. Well, at Carrick and Scroop, we like to say to go fast, go alone, to go far, go together, or excuse me, to go far, go together, to go far fast, get aligned. And I think if you can get aligned and you can build a community around you while also taking on the actions that you need to take on, you can get aligned to this idea of self-care and really start to feel better about how you're showing up in the world, but also take better care of yourself in a way that helps you to be as strong and as productive as possible. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode. really have enjoyed the conversation. I've gotten some great tips for myself. And Dr. Martine, any last words from you? Speaker 1 (35:22) Well, as you can see saying about being aligned with the community, I have my Self-Care Empowerment Circle Facebook group where I invite women over 40. It's a free community where I put tips and strategies every single day. So if you go to selfcareempowermentcircle.com, you can reach that. And selfcaredgenius.com for more tips and strategies because it's all about us sharing the word. And if I tell you, Julie, then you tell someone else and we keep telling and we, it's this movement that we want to create. Speaker 2 (35:58) Yeah, we're going to get the word out there and we'll put those links in the show notes as well so that people have easy access to them. Well, thank you everybody for listening. Thank you Dr. Martine for being with us here today. And remember to like and share and comment on the episodes on whatever your favorite platform is. And we'll see you next time.