Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / Taking Back Control: Skier Jessie Diggins On Pushing Through The Pain Cave, Navigating Recovery & Her Final Olympic Run

Transcript

Taking Back Control: Skier Jessie Diggins On Pushing Through The Pain Cave, Navigating Recovery & Her Final Olympic Run · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: When I reach that point in a race where everything
0:03
Speaker 1: feels like it's on fire and legs are stiff and
0:06
Speaker 1: are going numb, I just kind of tell myself like
0:09
Speaker 1: I've arrived, Like I've gotten to that point where I
0:13
Speaker 1: am pushing my absolute limits. I'm pushing the boundaries, and
0:16
Speaker 1: I get to use this as a chance to see
0:19
Speaker 1: what I'm really made of.
0:34
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, Emilyavadi here.
0:36
Speaker 3: You are listening to another episode of Hurdle, a podcast
0:39
Speaker 3: featuring the mindset, secrets, and true stories of the most
0:42
Speaker 3: inspiring women in sports and wellness, empowering you to live
0:46
Speaker 3: a healthier, happier, more motivated life and of course, conquer
0:50
Speaker 3: your own hurdles. Today's guest is someone who understands what
0:53
Speaker 3: it really means to push the absolute limit of human potential.
0:58
Speaker 3: Jesse Diggins is a world champion and four time Olympic
1:03
Speaker 3: medalist in cross country at skiing, including her most recent
1:07
Speaker 3: bronze at this year's Winter Games in the ten kilometer freestyle.
1:12
Speaker 3: At the time I recorded this intro, Jesse has three
1:16
Speaker 3: more events during this Winter Games, which will be her
1:19
Speaker 3: final Olympics before she retires from competitive skiing this spring.
1:24
Speaker 3: In this conversation, which we originally had before the twenty
1:28
Speaker 3: twenty five season. Jesse gets incredibly candid about the pain Cave,
1:32
Speaker 3: why she views the physical agony of a race as
1:35
Speaker 3: a gift and an opportunity to see what she's truly
1:38
Speaker 3: made of, mental health and resilience, her experience with an
1:41
Speaker 3: eating disorder relapse, the danger of being too good at
1:45
Speaker 3: pushing through pain, and why asking for help is the
1:47
Speaker 3: biggest hurdle of all plus process versus outcome. Why Jesse's
1:53
Speaker 3: goals are centered on daily care and effort rather than
1:57
Speaker 3: just the number on a result sheet. Whether you you're
2:00
Speaker 3: an endurance athlete or just someone navigating the everyday hurdles
2:04
Speaker 3: of life, Jesse's insight on vulnerability and self compassion is
2:08
Speaker 3: a masterclass in mindset. Make sure you're following along with
2:12
Speaker 3: Hurdle over on social It's over at Hurdle Podcast. You
2:15
Speaker 3: can check out iHeart Woman's Sports over at Iheartwomen's Sports
2:18
Speaker 3: and me over at Emily a Bodie.
2:21
Speaker 2: Listen to Hurdle with Emily A Body.
2:22
Speaker 3: I'm iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
2:28
Speaker 3: And with that, let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling. Today,
2:39
Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Jesse Diggins. She's a pro
2:43
Speaker 3: cross country skier. She's also the author of a book,
2:47
Speaker 3: Brave Enough. We are a year out from the Winter Olympics.
2:50
Speaker 3: I am hyped to have you here. Thank you so much.
2:53
Speaker 3: I'm hyped too, Jesse Diggins, Welcome to hurdle. How are
2:58
Speaker 3: you doing today?
3:00
Speaker 1: Well, to be honest, I'm a little bit tired because
3:02
Speaker 1: I've been pushing really hard in training, so today is
3:06
Speaker 1: a little more of arrest and recovery day. But overall,
3:09
Speaker 1: I'm super hyped. And that's part of the fun. Part
3:11
Speaker 1: of this build up for the World Championships, right is
3:14
Speaker 1: that you get to dig pretty deep and push pretty hard.
3:18
Speaker 3: We will talk about your affinity for digging deep in
3:22
Speaker 3: just a bit, but I would be remiss if I
3:24
Speaker 3: didn't highlight right now that you're also fresh off of
3:28
Speaker 3: your twenty six individual World Cup win.
3:31
Speaker 1: I feel like every single time I see it as
3:33
Speaker 1: such a cool and fun, unique event, because I think
3:37
Speaker 1: the second you start taking it for granted is when
3:41
Speaker 1: you lose some of the magic.
3:42
Speaker 3: You're right now sitting in Italy, I have jealousy through
3:46
Speaker 3: the roof. How does it feel to be in Italy
3:48
Speaker 3: right now. Well, I love Italy.
3:51
Speaker 1: This has kind of become one of my homes on
3:54
Speaker 1: the road, and I just feel so comfortable here. I
3:57
Speaker 1: love the mountains. I just I feel like just walking
4:01
Speaker 1: around and looking at these jagged peaks of the Dolomites,
4:04
Speaker 1: I feel like my soul is just like, oh, I'm
4:07
Speaker 1: a home, Like this is great and the people are
4:09
Speaker 1: so nice too. I've been making friends and meeting new
4:13
Speaker 1: people and it's just been a really awesome place. So
4:17
Speaker 1: I I've been spending a lot of time in Italy
4:20
Speaker 1: this year and I've been really happy about that.
4:23
Speaker 3: Not a bad place to be. Do you get to
4:24
Speaker 3: travel with your husband as well? Not as much as
4:27
Speaker 3: we would love.
4:28
Speaker 1: He does not get quite as much flexibility with his
4:30
Speaker 1: job and he can't really work from home. But he
4:33
Speaker 1: did get to come over to Italy after the tour
4:36
Speaker 1: to ski and we had a training camp in Lavigno,
4:39
Speaker 1: and that was really really fun because we've got ski together,
4:42
Speaker 1: which is pretty rare for us. We don't often get
4:44
Speaker 1: to actually ski together.
4:46
Speaker 2: That's so special.
4:47
Speaker 3: And also I would be remiss if I didn't say
4:50
Speaker 3: with a year out from the Olympics and them also
4:53
Speaker 3: being in Italy, is there a certain feeling in the
4:57
Speaker 3: air already, I would.
5:00
Speaker 2: Say so yeah.
5:00
Speaker 1: So skiing around Pasalo lot to like, first of all,
5:04
Speaker 1: it's so cool seeing how many people are just out
5:06
Speaker 1: there on the trail skiing, like people training for the
5:11
Speaker 1: Marcia Langa, which I guess that already happened, but now
5:14
Speaker 1: they're training for the Vosslo but people training for everything.
5:16
Speaker 1: And then people just out there having fun and just
5:19
Speaker 1: you know, stopping for a cappuccino after their ski and
5:21
Speaker 1: just enjoying being out in the mountains. And when I'm
5:24
Speaker 1: out there skiing, I've had so many people stop me
5:27
Speaker 1: to say like good luck, Like I'm excited to cheer
5:30
Speaker 1: for you, I'm so esited.
5:31
Speaker 2: To watch you race.
5:32
Speaker 1: I love watching skiing, and it's just been so cool
5:35
Speaker 1: because I feel like I'm absorbing all of this positive
5:37
Speaker 1: energy and so yeah, people are.
5:39
Speaker 3: It's so it always makes me giggle a little bit
5:42
Speaker 3: hearing something like and people stop me because obviously, without
5:46
Speaker 3: all of the gearon, you certainly could be a recognizable person.
5:51
Speaker 2: But with all of the gearon, to get stopped it
5:54
Speaker 2: makes me giggle.
5:56
Speaker 1: It's definitely a new thing for me and the last
6:00
Speaker 1: couple of years because cross country skiing it is super
6:03
Speaker 1: big over in Europe, and it's super big in Scandinavia,
6:06
Speaker 1: right like Norway's wodn't It is a major sport. But
6:11
Speaker 1: in the US it's been growing for sure, but it's
6:14
Speaker 1: never been like one of the big sports, right, And
6:17
Speaker 1: so you have total anonymity when you're training at home,
6:20
Speaker 1: which is really cool. You're just very very normal, Like
6:24
Speaker 1: I feel like such an average person in every way
6:26
Speaker 1: and that's wonderful. And then coming over here having people
6:29
Speaker 1: recognize me on the trail, I still kind of do
6:32
Speaker 1: this double take, like how do you know why. It's
6:37
Speaker 1: very humbling, and it is super foddering, and it also
6:42
Speaker 1: makes me sometimes be like, oh my gosh, like I
6:44
Speaker 1: don't think I deserve this praise from these strangers.
6:48
Speaker 3: Well, you are an Olympic medalist and a world champion,
6:52
Speaker 3: and I was doing my Jesse Diggins research and you
6:55
Speaker 3: talk about what makes you an extraordinary athlete and it's
6:58
Speaker 3: not as in your words and outrageous votwo max or
7:02
Speaker 3: any specific crazy athletic ability, but rather your affinity for struggling.
7:09
Speaker 3: Talk to me a little bit about why you like
7:11
Speaker 3: to struggle, Jesse. I know it's funny. If I could
7:15
Speaker 3: pick for myself any sort of strength, it wouldn't be that.
7:19
Speaker 3: But like I wish I just had beautiful technique.
7:22
Speaker 1: It does not come naturally to me, and I'm not
7:25
Speaker 1: super powerful. I don't have incredible fast twitch muscles like
7:30
Speaker 1: I just I physically, I feel like I'm just quite average.
7:34
Speaker 1: But yeah, my particular strength is being able to shake
7:38
Speaker 1: hands with pain and figure out a way to move
7:41
Speaker 1: through the pain and embrace it in a race since
7:43
Speaker 1: instead of it shutting me down. I kind of I
7:47
Speaker 1: guess I would say when I reach that point in
7:49
Speaker 1: a race where everything feels like it's on fire and
7:53
Speaker 1: my legs are stiff and or going numb, I just
7:56
Speaker 1: kind of tell myself like I've arrived, like I've gotten
7:59
Speaker 1: to that point where I am pushing my absolute limits.
8:04
Speaker 1: I'm pushing the boundaries, and I get to use this
8:06
Speaker 1: as a chance to see what I'm really made of.
8:08
Speaker 1: How gritty can I get, how tough can I be?
8:10
Speaker 1: How how far am I willing to go for this
8:14
Speaker 1: race for my team, for whatever it is that I'm
8:17
Speaker 1: racing for right now. And I think for me, that
8:20
Speaker 1: is like an opportunity, and that's why it has turned
8:23
Speaker 1: into a strength. It's instead of being scared of it hurting,
8:26
Speaker 1: I see it as this kind of this gift of
8:30
Speaker 1: getting to learn something about myself, but it's hard to
8:32
Speaker 1: learn any other way.
8:34
Speaker 3: This gift of being able to lean into the hurt
8:37
Speaker 3: in practice. What does the hurt look and feel like
8:41
Speaker 3: in your body when it's happening.
8:43
Speaker 1: So this is where people are going to think I'm nuts.
8:46
Speaker 1: But sometimes my legs go numb, like up to my waist.
8:51
Speaker 1: But first they feel really stiff, which is a pretty
8:54
Speaker 1: common feeling, like that lactic acid building your muscles are
8:57
Speaker 1: getting stuffer. But everything also feels like it's kind of burning,
9:00
Speaker 1: like my lungs are burning, and it feels like it's
9:03
Speaker 1: hard to stand up straight and get a deep breath.
9:06
Speaker 1: And sometimes my vision tints usually a little bit pink,
9:09
Speaker 1: but sometimes a little bit yellow, and sometimes the like
9:13
Speaker 1: the volume dial gets turned down, so I'm not hearing
9:16
Speaker 1: things quite the same anymore. And then recently, also sometimes
9:21
Speaker 1: it feels like my teeth are buzzing, which is a
9:24
Speaker 1: very weird feeling, like like I literally am feeling the
9:27
Speaker 1: lactic acid in my teeth, like it's everywhere, and then
9:32
Speaker 1: when I cross the finish line. I'm also kind of
9:35
Speaker 1: known for like collapsing in the snow and staying down
9:37
Speaker 1: for a little while. And I'm not trying to be dramatic.
9:40
Speaker 1: It's not on purpose. It's because when I'm laying there,
9:43
Speaker 1: it feels like everything's spinning, like you know when you
9:46
Speaker 1: have too much to drink and then you lay down
9:48
Speaker 1: and you're like, WHOA, I can't get up right now.
9:51
Speaker 1: Everything's spinning around me. That's what it feels like. So
9:54
Speaker 1: sometimes it feels like I'm holding onto the snow to
9:56
Speaker 1: kind of center myself, and I'm like, I am not
9:59
Speaker 1: gonna get up right now because I do, I'm just
10:01
Speaker 1: going to stagger around and fall back down. It's not
10:03
Speaker 1: going to be pretty.
10:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, So do you have a recollection of when you
10:10
Speaker 3: first experienced all of these sensations and were able to
10:15
Speaker 3: push through it, learning that pushing through it was possible.
10:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a team relay, which makes sense because
10:23
Speaker 1: for years and years and years, my best races were
10:26
Speaker 1: always relays, and for whatever reason, I felt like it
10:29
Speaker 1: wasn't okay for me to care enough about my own races.
10:32
Speaker 1: But when I was racing for my teammates, I would
10:35
Speaker 1: turn myself inside out and have my best performances ever.
10:40
Speaker 1: And so back in high school, we had I think
10:43
Speaker 1: it was a pretty casual weekend relay, like it wasn't.
10:46
Speaker 1: It wasn't for all the marbles or anything. But I
10:48
Speaker 1: was anchoring my team and we were a little bit behind,
10:53
Speaker 1: and I was told like, all right, you just have
10:54
Speaker 1: to catch this one girl from I think it was
10:57
Speaker 1: like Forest Lake High School or Roseville or one of
10:59
Speaker 1: the teams that we competed against a lot. And I
11:02
Speaker 1: was like, oh, great, But we had one hundred and
11:05
Speaker 1: twenty kids on our high school team, and so did
11:07
Speaker 1: a lot of the other teams, and so there were
11:08
Speaker 1: like twenty teams out there. So I'd look up the
11:12
Speaker 1: hill and see a girl in the suit that I
11:13
Speaker 1: thought I had to catch, and as soon as I
11:15
Speaker 1: catch her, I'd look up and see another girl and
11:18
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, my gosh, which one was I
11:19
Speaker 1: supposed to catch? And so in my head I forgot
11:22
Speaker 1: about what team it was I was supposed to catch,
11:25
Speaker 1: and I just kept trying to chase down every single
11:27
Speaker 1: person in front of me, just in case that was
11:29
Speaker 1: the one person I was supposed to pass, and I
11:32
Speaker 1: just got so focused on the task and so in
11:36
Speaker 1: the zone that I started ignoring all the warning signs
11:39
Speaker 1: that you normally feel in your body. That's like WHOA,
11:42
Speaker 1: time to slow down, Like you're pushing really hard. This
11:45
Speaker 1: kind of hurts, and I just kept pushing and pushing
11:47
Speaker 1: through it. And when I crossed the finish line, I
11:50
Speaker 1: had not only passed the girl, but we had won
11:53
Speaker 1: the relay buy a lot. But I thought I was
11:55
Speaker 1: going to die.
11:56
Speaker 2: I was like, I.
11:57
Speaker 1: Can't breathe, I can't move, I'm so much pain. But
12:01
Speaker 1: then after thirty forty five seconds, I got up and
12:04
Speaker 1: I was like WHOA, Like that didn't kill me. I'm okay,
12:09
Speaker 1: holy crap, Like I think I've just unlocked this next
12:12
Speaker 1: level of racing. Like I had this massive light bulb moment, like,
12:15
Speaker 1: oh my god, this level has been there the whole time.
12:20
Speaker 1: I just didn't have the motivation to go there until now,
12:24
Speaker 1: And now that I've figured it out and unlocked, Like
12:26
Speaker 1: I can get so much more out of my body
12:29
Speaker 1: if I'm willing to go that far into the pain
12:32
Speaker 1: cave and really empty the tank.
12:33
Speaker 2: All the way.
12:34
Speaker 1: And so that kind of was this like Wow, this
12:37
Speaker 1: is an amazing discovery. And also it was like, oh no,
12:41
Speaker 1: now I know what I have to do every time
12:44
Speaker 1: I really want to race really hard and get everything
12:46
Speaker 1: out of myself, Like, oh.
12:48
Speaker 3: No, how has this realization translated across the rest of
12:54
Speaker 3: your life beyond sport.
12:57
Speaker 1: Well, that's where it's kind of interesting, because this ability
13:02
Speaker 1: to push through pain is really really great as a
13:06
Speaker 1: professional endurance athlete, right, But in the rest of my life,
13:11
Speaker 1: the ability to just keep pushing through pain and ignore
13:14
Speaker 1: warning signs has actually been quite a liability. I had
13:18
Speaker 1: an eating disorder when I was eighteen nineteen years old,
13:21
Speaker 1: and I went to the Emily program for professional treatment
13:25
Speaker 1: and got better and learned so much about myself. And
13:28
Speaker 1: then I had a relapse about a year and a
13:31
Speaker 1: half ago, and I realized that a big part of
13:34
Speaker 1: why I relapsed was because I was too good at
13:39
Speaker 1: pushing through discomfort. Like in my personal life, I was
13:44
Speaker 1: getting overwhelmed. I was doing way too much. I was
13:47
Speaker 1: working myself too hard. Just a little bit, but all
13:50
Speaker 1: the time for about six years, and it was building
13:53
Speaker 1: and building, and I just kept pushing through it, like no,
13:57
Speaker 1: I'm tough, I'm gritty. I got this, I can do it.
14:00
Speaker 1: And so I took that mentality that is great in
14:03
Speaker 1: races and put it into my personal life and started
14:07
Speaker 1: kind of tearing myself apart because I was too good
14:10
Speaker 1: at being in pain. And so I feel like this
14:15
Speaker 1: is something that a lot of endurance athletes and people
14:18
Speaker 1: in general can struggle with. It's like, where's the line
14:21
Speaker 1: between acceptable pain for a very defined amount of time
14:26
Speaker 1: where there is a clear finish line, and where is
14:29
Speaker 1: the line where it's like this is unacceptable, Like it's
14:32
Speaker 1: not okay to be hurting for this amount of time
14:36
Speaker 1: and in your normal life.
14:39
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing that.
14:40
Speaker 3: I'm so curious to know what the differences were for
14:46
Speaker 3: you from your first about with your ED to your
14:51
Speaker 3: relapse a year and a half ago, knowing a year
14:55
Speaker 3: and a half ago that there were certain tools accessible
14:58
Speaker 3: in your toolbox that you didn't have when you were
15:01
Speaker 3: a teenager.
15:03
Speaker 1: Exactly because when I was a teenager, I didn't know
15:06
Speaker 1: anything about eating disorders beyond like your very basic, like
15:11
Speaker 1: eighth grade health class unit. And so from that I
15:14
Speaker 1: was like, oh, okay, so eating disorders are apparently a
15:18
Speaker 1: behavioral choice and it's your fault and it's a problem.
15:21
Speaker 1: And this only affects you know, rich, skinny, white teenage
15:25
Speaker 1: women and nobody else, like right, Like that's what I
15:29
Speaker 1: thought I knew about it, which was completely wrong. All
15:31
Speaker 1: those things are basically the opposite. Eating disorders can affect
15:35
Speaker 1: anyone at any stage of life. It's not a behavioral choice.
15:39
Speaker 1: It's the way your brain is wired. And nobody asks
15:42
Speaker 1: for this, And it's okay to need help, like you
15:46
Speaker 1: do deserve help, that's okay. And so I didn't know
15:49
Speaker 1: that the first time. So I was basically drowning in
15:53
Speaker 1: my own guilt and shame and feelings of confusion, like
15:59
Speaker 1: I'm a good kid, I got a's in school, I'm smart,
16:04
Speaker 1: I'm capable. Why can't I figure this out?
16:06
Speaker 2: You know?
16:07
Speaker 1: Like I figured, like, oh, I should be able to
16:09
Speaker 1: just work hard and solve this on my own. And
16:11
Speaker 1: I didn't really understand that it's okay to lean on
16:15
Speaker 1: professionals who have had training in eating disorders. Who are
16:19
Speaker 1: you know, Therapists were there to help you figure out
16:22
Speaker 1: what's going on in your brain and that's the you know,
16:25
Speaker 1: smoothest path towards recovery and like truly healing from this.
16:29
Speaker 1: So I also learned that my eating disorder wasn't really
16:34
Speaker 1: about food at all. It was about control and perfectionism.
16:37
Speaker 1: So kind of hand in hand with that tendency to
16:41
Speaker 1: just push and push and push and try to, you know,
16:45
Speaker 1: and be okay with pushing through pain, I'm also pretty
16:48
Speaker 1: type A and I love feeling like I'm in control
16:52
Speaker 1: of me. And if I felt like my life was
16:54
Speaker 1: out of control, my eating disorder came in kind of
16:58
Speaker 1: as a crutch, like a coping mechanism, like, oh, I
17:01
Speaker 1: can give you control, And of course that's also not true,
17:05
Speaker 1: like the eating disorder ends up controlling you. You're not
17:08
Speaker 1: really in control, but in the moment, you feel like, well,
17:12
Speaker 1: food in my body is the one thing I can
17:15
Speaker 1: hold on to so tightly and have control over when
17:18
Speaker 1: I feel like everything else is chaos and I'm not
17:21
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to be perfect and I'm not perfect,
17:23
Speaker 1: and your eating disorder comes in and goes, well, I
17:25
Speaker 1: can make you perfect. So it was just kind of
17:28
Speaker 1: this trap of thinking. And the second time when I relapsed,
17:36
Speaker 1: I realized, Hey, I need to not let this be secret,
17:40
Speaker 1: like right away, I need to tell my sports psychologists
17:44
Speaker 1: who i'd worked with since I was nineteen, so she
17:46
Speaker 1: knew my whole history. We're very close, and we had
17:49
Speaker 1: spent years and years building up a strong safety net
17:53
Speaker 1: so in case this ever happened, I could fall back
17:56
Speaker 1: on that. And I told my husband, told my parents,
17:59
Speaker 1: told my coach, told my teammates, and I was Instead
18:03
Speaker 1: of being met with you know, skepticism, or being shut
18:08
Speaker 1: out or being blocked out, I was met with love.
18:12
Speaker 1: And that was so incredible for me to feel just
18:15
Speaker 1: unconditionally accepted, like we still think you're a good person,
18:19
Speaker 1: We're really sorry that you're dealing with this. How can
18:21
Speaker 1: we help you? Like, we know we can't fix it
18:23
Speaker 1: for you, that's why you have the professionals, but we
18:26
Speaker 1: just want to support you. And that was amazing. So
18:29
Speaker 1: I think all of these fears that if I told
18:33
Speaker 1: somebody that I was struggling, if I told someone I
18:35
Speaker 1: wasn't perfect, that they would reject me, Like, none of
18:38
Speaker 1: those fears came true.
18:40
Speaker 3: Yeah again, thank you for sharing that. How long was
18:44
Speaker 3: it before you spoke to people about what you were
18:52
Speaker 3: experiencing in this relapse?
18:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I say, because the first time it was months.
18:59
Speaker 1: I couldn't even admit it to myself. Let alone even
19:02
Speaker 1: think about telling my parents, who are, like, you know,
19:05
Speaker 1: unconditionally they have to love you. You're their child, and
19:08
Speaker 1: so like, I couldn't even admit it to myself, much
19:11
Speaker 1: less of them. But the second time, it was I
19:15
Speaker 1: don't know, a matter of just a couple of weeks
19:18
Speaker 1: where I was like, Okay, this is okay, I recognize
19:22
Speaker 1: what's happening. This is happening again, and I realize I
19:25
Speaker 1: need to shut this down because I know myself and
19:27
Speaker 1: I know how quickly something like this can spiral.
19:46
Speaker 2: You mentioned this desire for control.
19:50
Speaker 3: Also curious if there was anything specifically that was occurring
19:54
Speaker 3: that was triggering this desire in you when this happened.
19:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's probably a bunch of things combined.
20:02
Speaker 1: But I think this had been building for a very
20:05
Speaker 1: long time. And so after the twenty eighteen Olympics, when
20:09
Speaker 1: Keigan and I won the gold medal, I kind of
20:12
Speaker 1: overnight our lives changed and it was exciting and wonderful
20:18
Speaker 1: and scary and overwhelming all at once. And also I
20:22
Speaker 1: kind of became the face of us skiing from then
20:26
Speaker 1: on and had more more asks of me. And I'm
20:33
Speaker 1: a yes person. I really struggle with saying no, and
20:35
Speaker 1: I also wanted to do everything. You know, this sport
20:38
Speaker 1: has given me so much. I wanted to give back
20:41
Speaker 1: in every way that I could. And that's great, but
20:45
Speaker 1: there have to be boundaries, there have to be limits,
20:48
Speaker 1: and I was not setting limits for myself, and I
20:53
Speaker 1: just was not good at recognizing, like you are pushing
20:56
Speaker 1: too hard, you're doing too much, and I slowly was
21:00
Speaker 1: overworking myself and to the point where, like I looked
21:04
Speaker 1: back on before my relapse, I looked at my planner
21:08
Speaker 1: like I like to write things down physically in a log,
21:12
Speaker 1: and I had a week where it was like five
21:15
Speaker 1: different interviews, a couple different podcasts, a board meeting, and
21:19
Speaker 1: something else on top of double training every day. And
21:23
Speaker 1: it was like that's too much, Like that is too
21:26
Speaker 1: much for anyone, but it was definitely too much for
21:29
Speaker 1: me in that moment. And so looking back, I think
21:32
Speaker 1: I was just overworking myself and overriding it. And so
21:36
Speaker 1: my eating disorder kind of came back as this kind
21:39
Speaker 1: of final warning sign, like, hey, you haven't been listening.
21:44
Speaker 1: You've been ignoring everything. Your brain's been telling you to
21:46
Speaker 1: slow down. This is the one thing you will listen
21:49
Speaker 1: to and so my eating disorder kind of came in
21:52
Speaker 1: to bench me and say, like, stop it. You have
21:55
Speaker 1: to slow down, you have to rest, You have to
21:57
Speaker 1: take care of your soul and what you actually need
22:01
Speaker 1: in order to be a complete, full person right now.
22:04
Speaker 1: And so, even though my eating disorder has not been
22:08
Speaker 1: a good thing in my life, it has been a
22:11
Speaker 1: functional warning system in a way, like I'm trying to
22:16
Speaker 1: not see it as only a bad thing. In a way,
22:19
Speaker 1: my eating disorder has been something that's taught me you
22:23
Speaker 1: have to stop. Because if it hadn't come back, I
22:26
Speaker 1: probably would have kept going like that for years and
22:30
Speaker 1: years and years, and I would have become deeply unhappy.
22:33
Speaker 1: And now I'm a happy and healthy version of myself
22:37
Speaker 1: because I was forced to kind of come to terms
22:40
Speaker 1: with what I was doing.
22:42
Speaker 3: You mentioned the bravery that went into owning up to
22:46
Speaker 3: what you were going through experiencing and then talking to
22:49
Speaker 3: your teammates and your family and your sports psych and
22:53
Speaker 3: so many individuals in the act of that. How did
22:57
Speaker 3: that make you feel at first versus how did that
23:00
Speaker 3: make you feel a week later after you told all
23:03
Speaker 3: of them.
23:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the moment, I was just like sweating uncontrollable
23:09
Speaker 1: because I was so nervous, like, man, like, you know,
23:13
Speaker 1: there's still and it's not that I don't completely love
23:16
Speaker 1: and trust all these people in my life, but I
23:18
Speaker 1: think there's that part of your brain that says you
23:22
Speaker 1: are so unlovable for this, like how could anyone love
23:26
Speaker 1: you when you are doing this to yourself? And that
23:30
Speaker 1: is really scary. So to trust everyone that I told,
23:35
Speaker 1: to trust that they wouldn't shut me out and say, no,
23:39
Speaker 1: we still love you, don't worry, we still have you
23:42
Speaker 1: here like that, it was really scary, and so I
23:45
Speaker 1: think in the moment it was terrifying. But then not
23:49
Speaker 1: even a week later, I would say, an hour later,
23:52
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm so silly for being scared to
23:55
Speaker 1: tell them, like, I'm so glad I did. And it's
23:57
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not that I'm silly. Those fears are valid,
24:00
Speaker 1: but everyone I told was so supportive and yeah, so
24:05
Speaker 1: kind and yeah, I'm so glad that I reached out
24:08
Speaker 1: for help.
24:09
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you reached out.
24:10
Speaker 3: And to your point, not silly, but understandably so feeling
24:15
Speaker 3: a little foolish.
24:16
Speaker 2: It's as though.
24:18
Speaker 3: You think to yourself, I've been here before I should
24:21
Speaker 3: know better. And it's not that you don't know better.
24:23
Speaker 3: It's bigger than you, right, It is all consuming, and
24:27
Speaker 3: so to do the best you can with what you
24:29
Speaker 3: have in any given moment. Each moment is going to
24:31
Speaker 3: look different than the last, and so you took it
24:34
Speaker 3: upon yourself to do a very brave thing and move
24:37
Speaker 3: forward in the way that was best for you.
24:40
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, it's I think that's my biggest message
24:44
Speaker 1: for people is that it's so terrifying to need to
24:47
Speaker 1: ask for help when when it's something big and when
24:51
Speaker 1: it's something personal, and it can be so scary because
24:54
Speaker 1: we're worried that we're going to be rejected or shut out,
24:57
Speaker 1: or people won't look at us the same way anymore.
25:00
Speaker 1: And none of those things have happened to me either
25:03
Speaker 1: time that I told people, and I stood up told
25:06
Speaker 1: the whole world, and nobody looks at me differently, And
25:10
Speaker 1: so I think it's even though it's so so scary
25:13
Speaker 1: to take that step to ask for help like that
25:15
Speaker 1: is the biggest hurdle that you have to get over,
25:17
Speaker 1: and once you get over that, everything from there can
25:21
Speaker 1: flow a little bit easier because you have people on
25:23
Speaker 1: your side who have your back, who are helping you out.
25:26
Speaker 2: You mentioned telling the whole world.
25:28
Speaker 3: How is that different than telling the people that know
25:31
Speaker 3: you and your heart specifically.
25:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a whole nother conversation because I, yeah,
25:39
Speaker 1: I told all the people who are part of you
25:42
Speaker 1: know what I would call my care team, like everyone
25:44
Speaker 1: I know cares about me and who is helping me
25:47
Speaker 1: and supporting me. And I knew that, you know, they
25:51
Speaker 1: were going to respect my privacy and let me tell
25:53
Speaker 1: people if I wanted to. And the first time I
25:57
Speaker 1: told everyone it was in a past ten you know,
26:00
Speaker 1: it wasn't actively while I was in recovery. It was, Hey,
26:04
Speaker 1: you know, six seven years ago, I struggled with this,
26:07
Speaker 1: and I think it's important for me to talk about
26:09
Speaker 1: because I wanted people to see that you can be
26:13
Speaker 1: imperfect and need help with something and still get healthy
26:17
Speaker 1: and get better and reach your goals. Like it's okay
26:20
Speaker 1: if you're struggling with something, you don't have to be perfect.
26:23
Speaker 1: There was a lot of discussions of like, should you
26:26
Speaker 1: just focus on yourself right now because you don't need to,
26:32
Speaker 1: don't You don't You've given people enough, you don't need
26:35
Speaker 1: to help anymore. But I felt like I did want
26:38
Speaker 1: to tell people because it's been my way this whole
26:43
Speaker 1: time is to be super vulnerable and super open, and
26:47
Speaker 1: I wanted people to know like, if you have a relapse,
26:50
Speaker 1: you haven't failed, because that's how I felt when I
26:53
Speaker 1: first started using the symptoms of my eating disorder again.
26:57
Speaker 1: My first thought was, Oh my god, I'm such a failure.
27:01
Speaker 1: Like I thought I was past this. I thought I
27:03
Speaker 1: was better than this. I thought I had grown and learned,
27:06
Speaker 1: So how could I be here again? And in hindsight, well, yeah,
27:09
Speaker 1: of course I could be there again. Like I was
27:11
Speaker 1: completely overwhelmed. But in the moment, it seemed like such
27:14
Speaker 1: a surprize and I was so caught off guard by
27:17
Speaker 1: my eating disorder and I felt so yeah, I felt
27:21
Speaker 1: like I had failed until I took a step back
27:24
Speaker 1: and went, wait a minute, this does not You know,
27:27
Speaker 1: you're allowed to ask for help at any point in
27:29
Speaker 1: your life. It's not like you get one call for
27:32
Speaker 1: help and that's it. Like you are allowed to struggle
27:35
Speaker 1: multiple times, that's okay. And so I felt like it
27:38
Speaker 1: was important for me to share that, And the feedback
27:41
Speaker 1: that I've gotten from people has made me very glad
27:44
Speaker 1: that I did, because I'm not the only person who
27:47
Speaker 1: has had a relapse of something, whether or not it's
27:50
Speaker 1: mental health or a relapse with drug abuse, alcoholism, whatever
27:56
Speaker 1: it is, it's you know, sometimes you slip up and
28:00
Speaker 1: you need another chance and that's okay.
28:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's okay. Again, Thank you so much for sharing
28:07
Speaker 3: so much about this. I really believe that it is
28:11
Speaker 3: through this vulnerability that we have an opportunity to help, right.
28:17
Speaker 3: But there is such an importance on being vulnerable when
28:23
Speaker 3: you are ready to be vulnerable. I once had someone
28:26
Speaker 3: on the show that said, be careful that the sword
28:28
Speaker 3: that you use to help others isn't the one that
28:31
Speaker 3: you fall on. So you had this big understanding of Okay,
28:36
Speaker 3: I'll know when I'm ready to talk about it, and
28:38
Speaker 3: when I do. You did it on your own terms.
28:42
Speaker 3: I loved what you recently put on Instagram. You were
28:45
Speaker 3: talking and sharing the comparison between going through a physical
28:49
Speaker 3: injury and also healing through and eating disorder. Can you
28:53
Speaker 3: talk to us a little bit about the parallels between
28:55
Speaker 3: the two.
28:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And before I do, I just want to
29:00
Speaker 1: reiterate what you said, like, no one should feel pressure
29:03
Speaker 1: to share beyond their care team unless they are ready
29:08
Speaker 1: because it is something that you can't take back once
29:11
Speaker 1: you put it out there, and I don't have any regrets,
29:14
Speaker 1: but that might be unique to my person and my personality.
29:17
Speaker 1: So I'm really glive you reiterated that because that's really important.
29:21
Speaker 1: But yeah, So what I have been thinking a lot
29:25
Speaker 1: about recently is how similar a physical injury is to
29:28
Speaker 1: a mental injury, because once I learned that, I shouldn't
29:34
Speaker 1: need to feel shame attached to my eating disorder just
29:37
Speaker 1: the same way like with my current injury, which is
29:40
Speaker 1: a partial rupture of the planter fashion in the bottom
29:43
Speaker 1: of my foot down by wear it attaches to my
29:45
Speaker 1: heel bone. Like, I don't feel any shame about that.
29:48
Speaker 1: I can tell anyone, like you know, like, oh, hey,
29:50
Speaker 1: how's your foot going. I'm like great, thanks, I'm working
29:52
Speaker 1: on it. Like it's healing and it's not a secret,
29:55
Speaker 1: it's not weird, it's not hard to talk about. It's like, yeah,
29:58
Speaker 1: this is this painful that I'm working on going through
30:02
Speaker 1: and the timeline isn't super defined, And I was like, wow,
30:08
Speaker 1: that's just like an eating disorder, Like no one can
30:10
Speaker 1: see the injury in my foot, It's invisible. It's on
30:12
Speaker 1: the inside, and there isn't an exact timeline, Like everyone
30:18
Speaker 1: heals differently, and what everyone can do while they're healing
30:22
Speaker 1: is different. Like I might be able to do these
30:24
Speaker 1: sort of modes of training, but not these different kinds
30:26
Speaker 1: of training modes, and that's unique to me and it
30:29
Speaker 1: shouldn't be compared to anybody else. And I also am
30:33
Speaker 1: leaning on the medical professionals to help me out with
30:36
Speaker 1: my foot, you know, like, even though I am a strong,
30:38
Speaker 1: capable woman, I don't need to heal my own foot,
30:42
Speaker 1: it's okay for me to ask for help. And the
30:44
Speaker 1: same with my eating disorder. So yeah, I've just found
30:48
Speaker 1: that there's so many different parallels here and it's taught
30:53
Speaker 1: me patients in both realms.
30:55
Speaker 2: I think, is it plant or fascist stuff? The worst.
31:00
Speaker 3: Wild a tear is very different than standard planter fasci
31:04
Speaker 3: it is, but it is the injury that just keeps
31:07
Speaker 3: on giving.
31:08
Speaker 2: It really is.
31:09
Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting is when I shared with
31:13
Speaker 1: people like has there's what's going on with my foot?
31:16
Speaker 1: I had so many people reach out to the point
31:18
Speaker 1: where I was like, wait, does everyone in the world
31:20
Speaker 1: have plant fasci itis? Like I think everyone It's like
31:23
Speaker 1: it's just a very relatable injury.
31:28
Speaker 2: There. I know what that feels like. Yes, I know
31:31
Speaker 2: what that feels like too.
31:32
Speaker 3: I feel like I've dealt with it on and off
31:34
Speaker 3: for like the past ten years. Right now we're in
31:36
Speaker 3: like a chow phase. But I can really sympathize with
31:40
Speaker 3: how frustrating it is and this idea that you have
31:43
Speaker 3: no timeline, there is no this is exactly how long
31:46
Speaker 3: it's going to be not feeling your best for It's
31:49
Speaker 3: almost as though with Planter fasci itis that sometimes, at
31:52
Speaker 3: least from my own experience, I almost wish that I
31:55
Speaker 3: broke something because then I had a clear indication of
31:57
Speaker 3: how long I'd be down and out.
32:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I feel like in my case, I am
32:03
Speaker 1: very fortunate because I could keep racing, whereas a stress
32:06
Speaker 1: fractor would have been the end of my season. But yeah,
32:09
Speaker 1: with a stress fractor, like you know, like and you
32:13
Speaker 1: can get X ray and be like it's hailed done.
32:16
Speaker 1: And with this it's very nebulous. And so that's what's
32:20
Speaker 1: made it very interesting for me.
32:22
Speaker 3: Oh, very interesting for you also an understandable thing. When
32:26
Speaker 3: did you start struggling with this bout of planter issues.
32:31
Speaker 1: So it came on very quickly, just a couple days
32:34
Speaker 1: before the start of the tour to Ski, which was
32:36
Speaker 1: December twenty eighth, so it came on like right around
32:39
Speaker 1: Christmas time. And I think it's because I was doing
32:42
Speaker 1: some training runs in new soft snow and I wasn't
32:46
Speaker 1: quite used to running on such an unstable surface. And
32:50
Speaker 1: they weren't crazy long runs, but for me, my feet
32:54
Speaker 1: have been basically my weakest length my entire career. They
32:59
Speaker 1: are just increat delicate and fragile, which is unfortunate. But
33:03
Speaker 1: it came on really quickly, so within like three days,
33:05
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm not running anymore. That's not happening.
33:09
Speaker 1: And then during the tour, at some point, which I
33:13
Speaker 1: believe it was one of the first classic races because
33:17
Speaker 1: it had been painful and uncomfortable. But then after one
33:20
Speaker 1: of these races, all of a sudden, I was like,
33:22
Speaker 1: I can't walk. This is a new sensation, like it
33:26
Speaker 1: feels like my foot is tearing in half. And we
33:28
Speaker 1: didn't know quite what was going on, and it wasn't
33:30
Speaker 1: getting worse, it was just holding steady. So we determined, like,
33:34
Speaker 1: all right, it's fine for me to finish the tour
33:36
Speaker 1: if I want. And at that point, and I would say, also,
33:40
Speaker 1: it's important to acknowledge, like we were working with pets
33:43
Speaker 1: and doctors and we were very carefully monitoring, like all right,
33:47
Speaker 1: this is quite painful, but because it's not continuing to
33:51
Speaker 1: get worse, we felt like, all right, it's safe to
33:53
Speaker 1: hold steady here, because otherwise there are certain kinds of
33:57
Speaker 1: pain that are not okay to race through. And then
34:00
Speaker 1: there are other injuries where it's like, well, you can't
34:01
Speaker 1: make it worse, so if you want to go ahead.
34:04
Speaker 1: But and this was the second category, But yeah, it was.
34:10
Speaker 1: It was incredibly painful. And then after that we got
34:14
Speaker 1: the MRI and figure it out like all right, here's
34:16
Speaker 1: our game plan. And it's been steadily improving since then.
34:19
Speaker 1: But it is, it is slow. It is. It is
34:23
Speaker 1: a day by day situation.
34:25
Speaker 2: A day by day situation.
34:27
Speaker 3: So many people that have struggled with the injury, regardless
34:29
Speaker 3: of what it is, can really feel that. Now, I
34:33
Speaker 3: would be remiss if I didn't ask you, as a
34:36
Speaker 3: cross country skier for a little bit of intel for
34:40
Speaker 3: someone who's unfamiliar with the sport may have an interest
34:43
Speaker 3: in trying it out. What are three foundational tips for
34:48
Speaker 3: someone to give cross country skiing a whirl.
34:52
Speaker 1: I always tell people sign up for a lesson first
34:56
Speaker 1: because that will make it so much more fun, and
35:01
Speaker 1: commit to trying it a couple of times, because the
35:03
Speaker 1: learning curve is really steep, but it is just really
35:06
Speaker 1: it's challenging, like it's physically a hard sport, but once
35:11
Speaker 1: you get some of the technique down, it becomes so
35:14
Speaker 1: fun and so enjoyable. So I always tell people, like,
35:19
Speaker 1: sign up for a lesson first to really focus on
35:21
Speaker 1: the technique of it, and then give you give it
35:23
Speaker 1: a few tries before you really make a judgment about
35:26
Speaker 1: whether or not you like it, because usually by the
35:28
Speaker 1: time you give it a couple of tries, you're like, oh,
35:30
Speaker 1: this is it is so fun being able to glide
35:33
Speaker 1: through the woods and through fields on these gorgeous trails
35:37
Speaker 1: under your own power. There's something so incredibly empowering about that,
35:41
Speaker 1: and it's really fun. But I guess the other thing
35:44
Speaker 1: I would tell people is it's a little bit like
35:47
Speaker 1: running in that it is what you make it. So yeah,
35:51
Speaker 1: you can go out and smash a marathon at record speed,
35:54
Speaker 1: or you can go for a job with your friends,
35:56
Speaker 1: and it's super social and it doesn't have to hurt,
35:58
Speaker 1: and it can be just fun and like a great workout,
36:02
Speaker 1: and cross country skiing is the same way, like it
36:05
Speaker 1: really is what you make it, and it can be
36:07
Speaker 1: super social.
36:24
Speaker 3: I know you played a lot of different sports when
36:26
Speaker 3: you were younger, and at one point you had aspirations
36:29
Speaker 3: to be a pole vaulter and a hurdler and a
36:31
Speaker 3: triple jumper.
36:32
Speaker 2: But what was it that made you choose to stick
36:36
Speaker 2: with ski. I would say the people and the culture.
36:41
Speaker 2: That's what really pulled me in.
36:43
Speaker 1: It was just so welcoming and open and just it
36:47
Speaker 1: was about trying your hardest and getting what you could
36:51
Speaker 1: out of yourself in a race, but it wasn't just
36:54
Speaker 1: focused on results, and it was just a really collaborative
36:57
Speaker 1: team atmosphere, and I'm really really grateful for that, like
37:00
Speaker 1: all the volunteer coaches, all my teammates, all the people
37:04
Speaker 1: surrounding me in that community of skiing in the Midwest.
37:08
Speaker 1: It was just like a beautiful way to get into
37:11
Speaker 1: the sport and it made me just totally fall in
37:15
Speaker 1: love with it. And then after that, once I started
37:19
Speaker 1: racing more for the team because I was purely focused
37:22
Speaker 1: on scoring points for the team. But then I slowly
37:24
Speaker 1: started to realize, like, oh, I actually like racing, like
37:28
Speaker 1: for the sake of racing, and like trying to beat
37:31
Speaker 1: the clock on this course, and how fast can I
37:34
Speaker 1: take these downhill corners and how you know, how quickly
37:37
Speaker 1: can I scamper up these hills? And I started to
37:39
Speaker 1: really get into the challenge of it too. So I
37:42
Speaker 1: think something something about the challenge of the sport really
37:46
Speaker 1: spoke to me. And maybe that's because it is so
37:50
Speaker 1: different where you know, in track and field, for example,
37:54
Speaker 1: you always have times, there are records, you know exactly
37:59
Speaker 1: what work out splits. You know, here's my mile split,
38:02
Speaker 1: here's my four hundred split. You know if you're on
38:04
Speaker 1: track or not. It's very black and white that way.
38:07
Speaker 1: But with cross country skiing, times are basically irrelevant because
38:11
Speaker 1: the snow is different and the course is different, and
38:13
Speaker 1: so you don't have splits, you don't have records. It's
38:16
Speaker 1: just on this day, with this snow, on this course,
38:19
Speaker 1: how hard can I go? And I was really drawn
38:22
Speaker 1: to that. It was just a little bit different.
38:25
Speaker 3: When did you get outside of the I want to
38:29
Speaker 3: do the best I can for the team mentality and
38:32
Speaker 3: start to embrace pushing the boundaries of your own potential
38:36
Speaker 3: as a solo athlete.
38:39
Speaker 1: I think around the time I started going to junior nationals,
38:43
Speaker 1: when I was, oh, what was I then? Fifteen? Sixteen
38:46
Speaker 1: years old, That's when I started realizing like, oh, like,
38:49
Speaker 1: I'm really enjoying training hard and training in the summer
38:53
Speaker 1: as well, and I'm really enjoying racing, and I think
38:56
Speaker 1: I want to keep taking it to the next level
38:58
Speaker 1: and see, like, can I race it junior nationals? Can
39:00
Speaker 1: I receet senior nationals? Can I make the world Championship team?
39:05
Speaker 1: But I will say I was all I was always
39:07
Speaker 1: very focused on my team as well. Within that so,
39:10
Speaker 1: even though racing is predominantly individual, we do have some relays,
39:15
Speaker 1: but we don't get that many of them. It's mostly
39:17
Speaker 1: an individual sport. But I am still so focused on
39:20
Speaker 1: the way we train and support each other and push
39:22
Speaker 1: each other to be better as a team.
39:24
Speaker 3: We talked about how you like to push yourself when
39:27
Speaker 3: it comes to racing. How have you learned to gauge
39:30
Speaker 3: that when it comes to your training versus the effort
39:34
Speaker 3: that you're going to put out on the big day.
39:37
Speaker 1: Oh, that makes a lot of sense, because you can't
39:41
Speaker 1: just go one hundred percent all the time. You're going
39:44
Speaker 1: to burn out, you're gonna get overtrained injured. And that's
39:48
Speaker 1: a really tricky line to walk, because I feel like
39:51
Speaker 1: I'm always kind of trying to feather that line of
39:53
Speaker 1: like how hard can I push it while still being
39:57
Speaker 1: able to recover and come back from this, And so
40:00
Speaker 1: I guess some of it is. Honestly, the answer is
40:03
Speaker 1: I haven't done it well all the time. I've definitely
40:05
Speaker 1: had years where I overtrained. In twenty fifteen, before the
40:09
Speaker 1: World Championships, I had to give myself two weeks of
40:11
Speaker 1: emergency rests, like a month or two before the season
40:14
Speaker 1: started because I had overdone it and I was cooked,
40:19
Speaker 1: and I was able to come back and still salvage
40:21
Speaker 1: a good season. But I think I've learned that I
40:26
Speaker 1: have a few different tells when it comes to training
40:30
Speaker 1: and when I'm starting to push it too hard. The
40:33
Speaker 1: first is my mood. Like if I get sad for
40:36
Speaker 1: pretty much no explainable reason, I know I'm pretty tired,
40:39
Speaker 1: because at baseline I'm a pretty happy person. And if
40:43
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of out of it and like a
40:45
Speaker 1: little bit melancholy for no reason. I'm like, oh that
40:49
Speaker 1: I'm like starting to get deeply tired here, and I
40:51
Speaker 1: need to be very careful that I'm not digging too
40:54
Speaker 1: deep a hole because I need to climb back out
40:56
Speaker 1: of this. And the other is like my sleep. How
41:00
Speaker 1: you know if it's starting to be hard to sleep
41:02
Speaker 1: or hard to get out of bed in the morning,
41:04
Speaker 1: is it hard to get motivated or is it hard
41:07
Speaker 1: for me to be motivated to train? Because the other thing,
41:10
Speaker 1: besides being a pretty happy person, is that I love training,
41:14
Speaker 1: Like I love going out there and pushing myself and
41:17
Speaker 1: getting to be outside and even when we're not in
41:20
Speaker 1: beautiful places, I just love the idea of getting to
41:23
Speaker 1: challenge myself and trying to become one percent better. And
41:27
Speaker 1: if I wake up and I'm like, ah, I don't
41:30
Speaker 1: really feel like it, then I'm like, WHOA, hit the brakes,
41:34
Speaker 1: Like this is a big deal because I'm I'm maybe
41:37
Speaker 1: on the edge of being sick. I'm probably really tired,
41:39
Speaker 1: and that I need to really pay attention to those
41:43
Speaker 1: signals that I'm getting from my brain.
41:45
Speaker 3: It's really impressive that you have that level of awareness
41:49
Speaker 3: to signify when something isn't exactly going right, because so
41:57
Speaker 3: many may have that awareness but not listen. And you
42:02
Speaker 3: not only have it, but then also know your body
42:05
Speaker 3: and yourself enough to say, okay, I need to shut
42:08
Speaker 3: it down.
42:09
Speaker 1: Well, that only comes from the experience of not listening
42:13
Speaker 1: a couple times, right, Yeah, So I had to learn
42:17
Speaker 1: the hard way, which I think I mean to be honest,
42:20
Speaker 1: I wish I was that person who could watch the
42:23
Speaker 1: mistakes of others and be like, aha, I've learned the secrets.
42:26
Speaker 2: I will never do.
42:27
Speaker 1: That, But like most people, I had to experience it
42:30
Speaker 1: myself to be like, Okay, these are the serious warning signs,
42:34
Speaker 1: and these are the things that I should not push through,
42:37
Speaker 1: and these other things I can push through. And so
42:39
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's been a bit of trial and error
42:43
Speaker 1: to get to this point, which is why it's so
42:44
Speaker 1: fun being an older athlete, because you have all these
42:47
Speaker 1: years and all these thousands of hours of training to
42:51
Speaker 1: finally be able to use that knowledge that you've earned
42:54
Speaker 1: the hard way.
42:55
Speaker 3: I appreciate that older athlete and the age thirty three
42:59
Speaker 3: really go hand in hand here.
43:03
Speaker 1: Well, when you think about the general scheme of Olympic sports,
43:07
Speaker 1: I'm on the older end.
43:08
Speaker 2: What you're saying, though, is entirely understandable.
43:11
Speaker 3: This concept that we can watch others struggle, but until
43:16
Speaker 3: you go through the struggle yourself, you don't know how
43:18
Speaker 3: you are going to respond, and then you don't really
43:21
Speaker 3: have that lesson necessarily ingrained. It's similar to the conversation
43:26
Speaker 3: that we were having between injury and your eating disorder.
43:29
Speaker 2: Right.
43:29
Speaker 3: These are things that are so difficult and sad and
43:34
Speaker 3: frustrating as we are experiencing them, But as with any hurdle,
43:38
Speaker 3: they give us this opportunity to then decide that we
43:42
Speaker 3: can move forward with this new information, equipping us for
43:46
Speaker 3: whatever challenge or hurdle comes next.
43:49
Speaker 1: Exactly. So I think it's nice to think, like, Okay,
43:53
Speaker 1: this hard thing that I'm going through right now, this
43:57
Speaker 1: is going to serve me in the future, whether it's
44:00
Speaker 1: an injury, whether it's a mental injury, whether it's just
44:03
Speaker 1: like oh, Ilverdy did it on the training Like I'm
44:06
Speaker 1: this will serve me in the future because I'm learning
44:08
Speaker 1: from this. I'm taking lessons, you know, and it's it's
44:11
Speaker 1: not just pain and suffering for no reason, like I
44:15
Speaker 1: am going to come back stronger, I'm going to build
44:18
Speaker 1: from this, and then I won't make that same mistake,
44:20
Speaker 1: or I'll recognize those warning signs, or if I have
44:24
Speaker 1: another relapse, I know to tell people right away and
44:27
Speaker 1: then I will suffer less. And so I think it's
44:30
Speaker 1: there is something to the knowledge that at least you're
44:34
Speaker 1: getting something, you know, some some crucial knowledge and insight
44:37
Speaker 1: from it.
44:38
Speaker 3: You touched on being a positive person. It would take
44:41
Speaker 3: someone like one minute of listening to you speak to
44:44
Speaker 3: agree with that sentiment.
44:46
Speaker 2: What does Jesse.
44:47
Speaker 3: Diggins do on the days where she's not feeling so
44:50
Speaker 3: shiny or excited or stellar in her own body?
44:54
Speaker 2: How do you handle that?
44:56
Speaker 3: And what's your inner dialogue looking like these days?
44:59
Speaker 1: That's a great question, especially right now because there is
45:03
Speaker 1: starting to be some pressure building as we come to
45:05
Speaker 1: the World Championships. And on the one hand, that's great.
45:09
Speaker 1: I've worked my whole life to be in a position
45:12
Speaker 1: of pressure, to be able to hold that and carry
45:15
Speaker 1: that and be that person who can accept that pressure.
45:20
Speaker 1: At the other, on the other side, like it sucks
45:24
Speaker 1: to feel like everyone's watching you and wanting to see
45:27
Speaker 1: you deliver something, and you can have those moments of
45:31
Speaker 1: self doubt, like oh my gosh, Have I worked hard enough?
45:33
Speaker 1: Have I worked too hard?
45:35
Speaker 2: You know?
45:36
Speaker 1: Am I resting enough? Am I resting too much?
45:38
Speaker 2: You know?
45:38
Speaker 1: It's so hard to know. And I'm not immune to
45:42
Speaker 1: those moments of self doubt or self questioning and wondering,
45:47
Speaker 1: you know, like, Wow, someday it will be so nice
45:51
Speaker 1: when my body is not my job. Like, there's definitely
45:55
Speaker 1: moments when I think about that. But on the other side,
45:59
Speaker 1: what I ask myself when I'm going through those questioning
46:04
Speaker 1: moments and all those doubts is just a very simple question.
46:06
Speaker 1: It's am I doing the best I can right now?
46:10
Speaker 1: And that's it. Am I doing the best I can?
46:12
Speaker 1: And usually the answer is well, yeah, I am doing
46:17
Speaker 1: the best I can, Like I'm putting my whole heart
46:19
Speaker 1: out there, and I'm training as smart as I can,
46:21
Speaker 1: and I'm making the best choices that I can in
46:25
Speaker 1: this moment with the information I have. And if the
46:27
Speaker 1: answer is no, I'm not doing the best I can,
46:29
Speaker 1: then I need to have a little conversation with myself.
46:31
Speaker 1: It's like, well why not, Like, do you still love
46:34
Speaker 1: what you're doing? Is this still the right goal for you?
46:37
Speaker 1: Why is it that you think you need to feel
46:39
Speaker 1: this pressure for World Championships. Is it to please other people?
46:42
Speaker 1: Or is it because you want it? So then there's
46:44
Speaker 1: some other conversations that need to happen. But if the
46:47
Speaker 1: answer is yeah, I'm putting it all out there and
46:50
Speaker 1: I'm doing the best, then are the best for me
46:53
Speaker 1: in this moment doesn't have to be the best compared
46:55
Speaker 1: to anyone else. Then I'm like, all right, I need
46:58
Speaker 1: to be satisfied with that, because I I would never
47:00
Speaker 1: turn to a teammate or a friend or a family
47:03
Speaker 1: member who is doing their best and be like, it's
47:06
Speaker 1: not good enough. I would never say that to anyone else,
47:09
Speaker 1: So why would I say that to myself?
47:11
Speaker 2: Yeah?
47:12
Speaker 3: Wow, you're asking yourself so many great questions in your
47:16
Speaker 3: process here, which beckons the question from me. Have you
47:20
Speaker 3: ever set out for a specific goal, done this level
47:26
Speaker 3: of inquiry on the journey to that goal, and made
47:30
Speaker 3: the decision that you wanted to pivot?
47:33
Speaker 1: You know? And I don't think so. And here's why,
47:38
Speaker 1: Because most of my goals are process oriented. Very very
47:42
Speaker 1: few goals are actually about the outcome. And so I think,
47:46
Speaker 1: if if all my goals were outcome, I want to
47:49
Speaker 1: win this Olympic race. I want that medal. I want
47:51
Speaker 1: to win this thing. If it was all based on
47:54
Speaker 1: the outcome, at some point I might go do I
47:58
Speaker 1: actually want that? Or do I think that somebody wants
48:03
Speaker 1: me to want that? But most of my goals, like
48:06
Speaker 1: every year, when I sit down in May with my
48:08
Speaker 1: coach and I write out, like here's what I want
48:11
Speaker 1: to do this year, I have a whole section. These
48:13
Speaker 1: are like my community give back goals. These are my
48:16
Speaker 1: day to day goals. Here's how I want to take
48:17
Speaker 1: care of myself. And I'm like, you know, when I retire,
48:20
Speaker 1: I'm still going to have those goals of taking care
48:22
Speaker 1: of myself. Like I'm still going to want to talk
48:25
Speaker 1: to a therapist just because I think it's healthy. I'm
48:27
Speaker 1: still going to want to get eight hours of sleep
48:29
Speaker 1: because I think that's great. Like those are never going
48:31
Speaker 1: to change. Those are goals that I want from me
48:34
Speaker 1: for my life because I think it's important. And similarly,
48:38
Speaker 1: like my process goals with skiing is just how can
48:41
Speaker 1: I become the best athlete that I can be And
48:44
Speaker 1: it's not in comparison to anybody else, And so for
48:47
Speaker 1: me that's been a really important thing that it's all
48:49
Speaker 1: about this process of striving, but it's not about measuring you.
48:55
Speaker 2: Know.
48:55
Speaker 3: What I appreciate about this is that through your process goals,
49:01
Speaker 3: you are working toward bigger benchmarks. So it's not like
49:06
Speaker 3: you said earlier this year, I'm going to win this
49:10
Speaker 3: World Cup.
49:11
Speaker 2: Right.
49:12
Speaker 3: You set out personal goals that enabled you as an
49:16
Speaker 3: individual athlete to perform in such a way that got
49:19
Speaker 3: you to this next landmark.
49:22
Speaker 2: Right.
49:23
Speaker 3: So I think that that's a really interesting way to
49:25
Speaker 3: view goal setting and to view someone going after their
49:29
Speaker 3: own potential is really both in evaluating the journey along
49:34
Speaker 3: the way and then setting yourself up for success by
49:38
Speaker 3: ideating what does success feel like for me in my
49:42
Speaker 3: body as an individual?
49:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I couldn't agree more because I think my
49:48
Speaker 1: goals might be different than someone else's goals, and that's okay.
49:51
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to reach my potential. And I think
49:54
Speaker 1: where people often struggle, I think is where the goal
49:59
Speaker 1: they set but isn't consistent with what they're willing to
50:03
Speaker 1: put in in order to achieve it. And I think
50:06
Speaker 1: that's when you get this mismatch where you're going to
50:08
Speaker 1: set yourself up feeling disappointed or frustrated or angry that
50:13
Speaker 1: you're not meeting this goal. But if you're honest with
50:16
Speaker 1: here's what I want to achieve and here's the amount
50:18
Speaker 1: of work I'm willing to put in, and those are aligned,
50:22
Speaker 1: then you're going to feel satisfied whether or not you're
50:25
Speaker 1: actually reaching the goal. You know that you're actually putting
50:29
Speaker 1: in the true, honest effort that it takes to give
50:31
Speaker 1: yourself that best shot of making it happen.
50:34
Speaker 2: One hundred percent.
50:35
Speaker 3: And that's why it's so important to be realistic or
50:40
Speaker 3: make a relevant goal right. So I always give this example, like, say,
50:44
Speaker 3: if you're someone that wants to drink more water, and
50:47
Speaker 3: quantifiably you hear that you're supposed to drink eight glasses
50:51
Speaker 3: of water each day, so you set the goal to
50:53
Speaker 3: drink eight glasses of water a day. But you're someone
50:57
Speaker 3: that's only drinking one right now, then you might not
51:00
Speaker 3: be willing to put in the effort that is required
51:02
Speaker 3: to drink eight. You could be better off if you
51:05
Speaker 3: set a goal to drink three, right, And there's nothing
51:08
Speaker 3: wrong with drinking three, especially if that's up from drinking one.
51:13
Speaker 3: The only person that will say something is wrong with
51:16
Speaker 3: drinking three is you. If you compare yourself to the
51:19
Speaker 3: person that's drinking eight.
51:22
Speaker 1: That's a great analogy because I think if you set
51:25
Speaker 1: a goal that is is a reach, you know, challenge yourself,
51:29
Speaker 1: but it has to be realistic with what you're willing
51:32
Speaker 1: to put in to reach for it. And then I
51:34
Speaker 1: think you're you're going to feel satisfied in the quest
51:37
Speaker 1: for it too. And that's the other part that I'm
51:39
Speaker 1: realizing is you know, like in this build up to
51:42
Speaker 1: World Champs. For example, the other day, I went for
51:44
Speaker 1: this beautiful hike and it was sunset, and I made
51:47
Speaker 1: a new friend and we went to the top of
51:49
Speaker 1: this mountain and we drank tea and ate pastries and
51:52
Speaker 1: it was just wonderful, and I was like, man, I'm
51:55
Speaker 1: so happy that I'm enjoying each little stepping stone along
52:00
Speaker 1: the way. It's not, oh, I'll only be happy if
52:03
Speaker 1: I win World Champs. No, it's I'm going to be
52:06
Speaker 1: happy if I put everything that I can into this,
52:08
Speaker 1: if I'm doing the best I can every day, and
52:10
Speaker 1: if I'm taking the moment or the time in the
52:13
Speaker 1: moment to be like, oh, I'm in a beautiful place.
52:17
Speaker 1: I love training. I love the fact that I get
52:19
Speaker 1: to hike up this mountain right now, which three weeks
52:22
Speaker 1: ago I couldn't do with where my foot was at. Like,
52:25
Speaker 1: I'm appreciating things so much more, but it's something that
52:28
Speaker 1: can sometimes get lost when you get so focused on
52:32
Speaker 1: the end goal or the outcome and the physical, like
52:36
Speaker 1: tangible result. But I'm trying to remember to step back
52:40
Speaker 1: and enjoy even the struggle in all these little pieces
52:44
Speaker 1: along the way, because there's something unique in that and
52:46
Speaker 1: there's something to be learned.
52:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's something really beautiful about your appreciation for
52:53
Speaker 3: every little step. But also that appreciation comes from a
52:56
Speaker 3: willingness and a desire to be present in me every moment, right,
53:01
Speaker 3: because that presence is what enables you to have the
53:06
Speaker 3: gratitude for what is instead of again those words that
53:09
Speaker 3: we were using before, comparison or asking yourself what else
53:13
Speaker 3: or who else?
53:14
Speaker 2: Right?
53:14
Speaker 3: So that presence in your day to day is something
53:18
Speaker 3: that's really special.
53:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something I don't ever want to lose.
53:22
Speaker 1: I think that's that's and it's not something that I've
53:25
Speaker 1: always had too, I should say, like I've also it's
53:28
Speaker 1: taken work to be like, yeah, I need to ground
53:31
Speaker 1: myself in this moment and enjoy the thing that I'm
53:34
Speaker 1: doing right now. I don't always need to be like
53:36
Speaker 1: looking head, looking head, looking ahead. And that's something that I,
53:40
Speaker 1: I mean, I struggled with at the twenty eighteen Olympics.
53:43
Speaker 1: I'd finish a race and like, all right, I have
53:45
Speaker 1: to I have to recover, I have to do this,
53:48
Speaker 1: I have to cool down, I have to do this thing.
53:50
Speaker 1: And even after we won the race, I remember my
53:53
Speaker 1: mom just being like, slow down. You will do all
53:56
Speaker 1: those things. It's hardwired into you. There's no possible way
54:00
Speaker 1: you're going to forget to cool down. But just take
54:04
Speaker 1: a moment and like, enjoy this second that you're in,
54:07
Speaker 1: Like you've worked your whole life for this. Yes, you
54:09
Speaker 1: have other races coming up and you want to be
54:11
Speaker 1: there for the team and you want to be there
54:12
Speaker 1: for yourself, but just appreciate the second that you're in.
54:16
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, you're right. Like
54:18
Speaker 1: I was rushing through everything just because I was trying
54:22
Speaker 1: so hard to do everything, you know, quote exactly right right,
54:27
Speaker 1: and it's okay to take a second and actually appreciate it.
54:30
Speaker 1: And I think I've finally started to get better at
54:33
Speaker 1: appreciating and the winds too, not just the every day,
54:39
Speaker 1: but like it's okay to actually take a moment and
54:41
Speaker 1: enjoy this. I don't have to rush to do the
54:43
Speaker 1: next right thing.
54:45
Speaker 3: There's so much power in celebrating the moments, whether they
54:48
Speaker 3: be small or big. Right, And oh my god, the
54:52
Speaker 3: emotion that's triggered when I watched that win from twenty eighteen.
54:56
Speaker 2: It's so special.
54:57
Speaker 3: And I do remember in the NBC report and you
55:00
Speaker 3: were saying that what was so impactful for you was
55:03
Speaker 3: watching the reaction videos to the win, right, seeing all
55:09
Speaker 3: of the young women that were so amazed and marveling
55:14
Speaker 3: at this accomplishment of an American woman. Right, how does
55:18
Speaker 3: it feel for you to be a role model and
55:22
Speaker 3: to know that you are for some on this podium
55:26
Speaker 3: of sorts?
55:28
Speaker 1: That is wild And it's a feeling I'm still getting trying.
55:32
Speaker 2: To get used to.
55:32
Speaker 1: Or maybe I'll never get used to it, actually, so
55:34
Speaker 1: I'm not going to try to get used to it.
55:36
Speaker 1: But it is wild, and it is honestly, it's a
55:40
Speaker 1: really big privilege and it's an honor and it's something
55:43
Speaker 1: that I don't take lightly. I recognize that there are
55:46
Speaker 1: a lot of little kids watching, and I think it's
55:50
Speaker 1: really cool to be able to inspire with the big
55:53
Speaker 1: moments when you win. But I feel it even more
55:56
Speaker 1: acutely in the moments when everything goes wrong and when
55:59
Speaker 1: you don't win, and how do you react? You know,
56:01
Speaker 1: there's a lot of kids watching. Are you the person
56:03
Speaker 1: who throws a fit and you know, breaks your pull,
56:07
Speaker 1: over your knee and storms off, or are you the
56:09
Speaker 1: person that congratulates the people you're racing against, still goes
56:13
Speaker 1: over thanks the wax, thanks the coaches, Like do you
56:17
Speaker 1: hold your head high and say, hey, look, I did
56:19
Speaker 1: everything I could and I've earned the right to be
56:21
Speaker 1: proud of my effort today. And I think that's the
56:24
Speaker 1: moment when I feel most like a role model. It's
56:28
Speaker 1: not when I win, but it's actually what I lose
56:30
Speaker 1: spectacularly and still hold my head high that I'm like, Okay,
56:36
Speaker 1: this is what these kids need to see right now,
56:39
Speaker 1: because it needs to be about more than just winning,
56:42
Speaker 1: Like you need to show that your self worth is
56:45
Speaker 1: not directly tied to the number next to your name
56:49
Speaker 1: on the result sheet.
56:51
Speaker 3: It's so true, it's so true, and it's such a
56:53
Speaker 3: such a special and unique opportunity that you have someone
56:56
Speaker 3: right now goes to maybe your Instagram page and they
57:00
Speaker 3: see you're an Olympic medalist, you're a world champion, you're
57:03
Speaker 3: an author, you're a speaker. There's something like two hundred
57:06
Speaker 3: and forty thousand plus people that keep up with you.
57:10
Speaker 3: But when you're at home, Jesse, and you look in
57:12
Speaker 3: the mirror, what is it that you see looking back
57:15
Speaker 3: at you.
57:17
Speaker 1: Oh, I see someone who loves her family and her
57:28
Speaker 1: husband very much. And I see someone who loves what
57:32
Speaker 1: she does and is super lucky to get to do
57:35
Speaker 1: it every day. And I see someone who tries really hard.
57:40
Speaker 1: More than anything, like, I just see someone who likes
57:43
Speaker 1: to work hard and is always going to be trying
57:46
Speaker 1: hard at whatever it is that she does.
57:48
Speaker 3: I hear it in your voice that sometimes the trying
57:52
Speaker 3: can be a little exhausting.
57:53
Speaker 2: Is that how you feel?
57:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sometimes it's sometimes it hurts to care so much,
58:00
Speaker 1: and sometimes it hurts to put your heart and soul
58:03
Speaker 1: into something and not have it work out, or to
58:07
Speaker 1: feel like it is so much work. But at the
58:12
Speaker 1: same time, I think the magic is in trying hard
58:17
Speaker 1: at something. It's not really whether or not you get it.
58:19
Speaker 1: Because everyone goes to the Olympics and wants to win,
58:22
Speaker 1: and only only one person is going to win, and
58:26
Speaker 1: everyone gets the opportunity to go out there and try
58:30
Speaker 1: and push themselves and challenge themselves and get out there
58:35
Speaker 1: and see where their limits are. And that's so cool
58:39
Speaker 1: and that's so beautiful, and so I think in some ways, yeah,
58:43
Speaker 1: it is exhausting and sometimes it hurts to care so much.
58:46
Speaker 1: But on the other side, I think it's so cool
58:49
Speaker 1: that we always just get to go out there and
58:51
Speaker 1: try hard at something, whether or not.
58:52
Speaker 2: We're the best.
58:53
Speaker 1: Everyone gets the opportunity to go try.
58:56
Speaker 2: Everyone gets the opportunity to go try.
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Speaker 3: Jesse, the final question for you here, right now, you
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Speaker 3: have an opportunity to offer yourself a piece of advice
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Speaker 3: going through the hurdle moment. I mean, let's go back
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Speaker 3: to a year and a half ago, right, Let's go
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Speaker 3: back to feeling as though you failed a little bit
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Speaker 3: in this relapse, coming out and speaking to your care
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Speaker 3: team and then opening up with your community about what
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Speaker 3: you were enduring. Knowing what you know now, what advice
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Speaker 3: would you give to yourself during that hurdle moment.
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Speaker 1: You don't have to be so hard on yourself. You
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Speaker 1: are good enough exactly as you are. And that makes
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Speaker 1: me a little bit sad to say, because there was
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Speaker 1: a moment in which I couldn't look in the mirror
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Speaker 1: and say you are good enough. I literally couldn't do it.
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Speaker 1: My coach challenged me to do it, and I just
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Speaker 1: started crying, like I couldn't tell myself you're good enough
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Speaker 1: as you are, like warts and all, you know, like
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Speaker 1: it's totally fine. And that was really hard for me.
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Speaker 1: And so I wish I could go back and tell myself, like,
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Speaker 1: you do not have to be perfect, because I think
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Speaker 1: every time I've gotten into big trouble in my life,
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Speaker 1: it's coming from this intense drive to try to be perfect.
1:00:05
Speaker 1: And it is okay to be imperfect, Like it is
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Speaker 1: my flaws that make me interesting and relatable and a funny,
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Speaker 1: quirky little person, and that's okay. You know, perfect would
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Speaker 1: be so boring, and so I would say, like, stop
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Speaker 1: reaching for that, just keep doing the best you can.
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Speaker 1: But it does not have to be perfect.
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Speaker 3: Just keep doing the best you can. But it doesn't
1:00:30
Speaker 3: have to be perfect. I love it, Jesse. For those
1:00:32
Speaker 3: that aren't following you yet on social media, give us
1:00:36
Speaker 3: the details.
1:00:36
Speaker 2: How do they do that? Yeah?
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Speaker 1: I met Jesse Diggins on Instagram and my website is
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Speaker 1: Jessediggins dot com and that's probably yeah. I would say
1:00:46
Speaker 1: Instagram is probably the best way to keep up with
1:00:49
Speaker 1: what I'm up to.
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Speaker 3: With what I'm up to, I'm over at Emily Abadie
1:00:52
Speaker 3: and at Hurdle Podcast. Jesse, thank you so much for
1:00:55
Speaker 3: everything today. This was a joy, truly another Hurdle conguer.
1:01:00
Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.
1:01:10
Speaker 2: H