Latest / Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered. / Beyond The Ceremony Podcast Episode 14: Student Spotlight with Seren Celebrants

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Beyond The Ceremony Podcast Episode 14: Student Spotlight with Seren Celebrants · Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered.

• Speaker 1 0:01 Laura, welcome to Beyond the ceremony, modern celebrancy. Unfiltered. I'm your host, Laura Crockett, celebrant and mentor at the Academy of modern celebrancy. So welcome back to beyond the ceremony. I'm very excited, because today I'm joined by not one but two guests in the studio, my first duo. So welcome to the lovely Hugh and Nia from Seren celebrants. Hi, thank you for having us. Hi guys, thank you for being here. It's lovely to have you. And you aren't just business partners. You're actually life partners too. Your husband Speaker 2 0:36 and wife, we are, yeah, we've been married for 13 years. Oh, amazing. Speaker 1 0:40 Well, congratulations, lovely stuff. Okay, so as you know, from beyond the ceremony, we tackle kind of a different subject each week. Some weeks, we'll talk to previous students and previous graduates of AMC. And the great thing is, the fact that you guys are AMC graduates is one thing that we'll talk about today. But also, exactly like I've just mentioned, I want to talk about what it's like working as a duo, because it is something that's quite unusual in the celebrant world. You see it all the time with you know photographers, and you get photographers that are quite often friends or husband and wife duos, but actually, I haven't seen many celebrants that work in pairs. So I guess let's start by taking it back to the very beginning. So can you kind of introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about Seren celebrants as a whole Sure. Speaker 3 1:27 Well, I can take the bit about how it all started. We went round for dinner with some friends, and we were in the middle of I'd know the main course, and one of them looked at me and said, we've got a question to ask you. All right, okay, we want you to marry us. So we just looked at each other, you know, what on earth does that mean? I think you mentioned at the time the sort of Joey from Friends, you know, yeah, of course, yeah. And we sort of left it, left it at there, but handing over to Nia, she was like a dog with a bone, and within about two or three days, she said, You know what? We can do this. And so, yeah, so you did all the research, didn't Speaker 2 2:07 you? Yeah, neither of us had even heard of a celebrant before. We were both practicing solicitors. Yes, that's amazing. Wow, which we didn't really enjoy. We both had a sort of bit of a creative side to us, and the thought of sitting behind a desk for the rest of our working years, but kind of, Unknown Speaker 2:26 I should qualify that I'm still a working part Speaker 3 2:30 time, but, but yeah, as Nia said, we both sort of got, you know, both the right and the left and side of the brains are working, and both got sort of creative sides to us. So we were looking for a different avenue, and this sort of just fell into our laps, really. So weren't looking for it specifically at the time, but once he had looked into what a celebrant was, and sort of how you achieve that, it sounded so interesting. And sort of plays on the creative side. There's the performance side of things, but also the people side of things, you get to meet some incredible, fascinating characters, yeah, of course. So that's, that's sort of the the embryo of how it all Speaker 1 3:08 Wow. So those friends of yours, then they're to thank for this whole Speaker 3 3:12 business. Yeah, and they're still not married, actually. Oh, wow. Speaker 1 3:15 Oh my gosh. So then what happened? Was it one of you they asked, or did they say they wanted both of you to be the ones to lead their ceremony. Speaker 3 3:22 Think they asked me initially? Yeah, so I we'd got to know them through me initially and but are both very good friends with them now. But it just turns out that when we looked, when we researched it, when we looked into what a celebrant was, it sort of fitted, you know the hat fitted for both of us? Yeah. Speaker 1 3:45 So then, from that moment, what happened next? You, I guess, researched how to actually do it for real. So you say they didn't actually end up having the wedding Speaker 3 3:53 ceremony. They haven't had it yet. They're still together, yeah? But yeah, they haven't had it yet. So so we looked into it, and we had the discussion. Because, you know, ultimately, anyone in theory, can be a celebrant. Yeah, of course, to do any training, I know. But having researched it and discussed it, we were both very clear, we want to do the training. Yes, want to have that qualification. We want to do it properly, or not at all. So, so that's what we looked into it, and started looking at the different providers, and eventually decided that AMC was the right one for us. Wow. Speaker 1 4:25 So this was then, while you were both, like, you say, working as solicitors. So how did you manage working in quite a stressful job as well? Like, that's, you know, that's not like something that's just an easy nine to five that you just rock up at work and I imagine, leave everything there that's quite a full on stressful career to then have alongside then studying. How did you kind of manage juggling both? Speaker 2 4:45 I guess the best thing for us was that we could do it online in our own time. Yeah, yeah, having to go to a residential where we were three days and had to arrange childcare. Time off work, we just worked around our own commitments. You know, be. Evenings, weekends, bit in, lunch break kind of thing, and the flexibility of that was what appealed to us. Yes, yeah. And I think, you know, talking about going to do the training in the first place. Anything we do, we want to do it to the best of our ability, of course, yeah. So we were, you know, once we started the training that was it. We were kind of full steam ahead. Then I'm just wanted to, wanted to get it done and do it Speaker 1 5:24 well, oh my gosh. So from that kind of idea that your friend had, you know, first suggested to you to then actually doing it for real, once you started doing the training, was there, like, ever a bit of, you know, rivalry between the two of you? Was there ever that one of you really excelled in one area and one of you, you know, needed the other one to help out, because it's such, you know, it's something that I imagine was quite new for both of you. How did you then both find tackling that at the same time? Because I guess for me, when I trained, you know, if I was struggling with that, I'd go to my husband be like, Oh, I'm finding this bit really hard. And, you know, we'd have that kind of conversation, whereas, I guess when you're both in that, that's quite a tricky situation. Speaker 3 5:59 Yeah, I'm sure we had different journeys during during the training, but ultimately the destination is always the same. I think the training is what you make of it. And, for example, some of the watching a lot of the videos, you know that then I perhaps haven't got the patience that, but Nia had where Nia wanted to really sort of immerse ourselves in them, whereas I absolutely loved the pressure of training for the live ceremony. I love the access to the document bank so that you can have different ideas from there. So I think that's it. I think, you know, I think everyone's training will be different, just like every wedding is different, every funeral is different, everyone's experience of the training will be completely different. You get out of it as much as you put into it. Speaker 1 6:42 Yeah, absolutely. And I guess as well, when you were doing that training, exactly like you said, we talk to our students all the time and say how important it has to reach out to your peers and connect with your peers and have that support. So I guess as well, there'll be bits that like you say, Hugh, that you found you really loved one part, and Nia found that she really loved another. And did you both train just in weddings, or did you look at funerals and namings as well? What was it that you both trained in initially, Speaker 2 7:07 we signed up and we both signed up for the weddings and the namings. Yeah, at the time, I thought funerals that, you know, that's a completely different I hadn't been to many funerals. Obviously, weddings sound so exciting, yeah, of course. So we both signed up for weddings and namings. Completed the weddings course first, and then we attended a funeral locally. Speaker 3 7:31 Yeah. So the story is, I've got to be as sensitive as possible here, but we all as we get older, and I'm much older than the two of you, obviously, but you go to more and more funerals, yeah. But what I'd sort of spotted was a lot of repetition and the same people doing them over and over again. And we went to a friend of ours mum's funeral, and it was perfectly pleasant, but very, very generic, and at 1.1 of the family name members, you got their name wrong. Oh, wow. And I went home that night and I said to me, I said, I have got to do the funerals. There has to be a better way. This is, this is your last chance to have your story told, yeah, and you've got, and we've got these generic things. And everyone said, Oh, it was a lovely service, but this is the last opportunity to tell that person's story, and whether they're 4050, 6070, 8090, there's decades and decades of experiences and memories and achievements. So that's how it came about. So we went home and I signed up to the funeral straight away, and completed it ASAP. And as soon as I'd qualified, I was I was working on Speaker 1 8:40 them. Yeah, you were ready to start doing funerals. That's amazing. And I think exactly like you say, I found that in my experience of talking to people who have qualified as funeral celebrants, a lot of that comes from personal experience. I think that that tends to be a driving factor of what it is that makes people want to do funerals. And I think for me, I'd, you know, trained in wedding ceremonies and naming is exactly like you guys first, and I'd done that for a few years, and then, you know, I went through a personal grief, and it was of a friend of mine, and I remember the importance of making sure her service was perfect, and every detail was thought about, and exactly like you say, you to then offer something generic that that wouldn't have been right for her, would have just been horrible. So that was then the factor for me that made me go, yeah, do you know what? I'm going to use that and help future families in exactly the same way? So had you already qualified in your weddings, and you'd been doing weddings for a while when you then went and did the funeral qualification? Speaker 3 9:31 Did you do timeline? Because, you know, our story is that we, we both completed the course in the summer, and obviously then sort of available to hire, yeah, but I think we had one wedding throughout the rest of that year. We're going back three, four years ago now. Yeah, so from the September to the January, we only had one wedding, yeah, so I think it was during that period I thought, well, I'll do the funerals as well. Yeah. And I remember us having a discussion at some point. In that, you know, have we made the right choice here? Because where are the bookings coming from? Yeah, exactly. But you got to be careful what you wish for, because as soon as that January hit, well, suddenly the booking started coming in. And it hasn't really stopped. From there we've been, we've been pretty busy from that point. So, yeah, so there was a bit of an overlap, and we found that Nia is sort of the the first port of call for weddings. I'm the first port of call for funerals, but then if I'm booked and vice versa, we swap over. Speaker 1 10:31 Yeah, that's fantastic. And then were you still working as solicitors at the time when you qualified? Like, how did you feel ready? When did you know was the moment to kind of make the switch to go from working as solicitors to then becoming celebrants full time, gradual Speaker 2 10:47 reduction in working hours. So I think we were quite realistic about things, and didn't want to make that massive stop and rely on income from celebrancy straight away, of course. So I think I went down to three days a week to start with. And so we're both involved in various other things, so we always had that extra source of income as well. Good, yeah, because you can never be quite sure. Can know what's what's going to happen. So yeah, we both still work part time in a couple of other different things, so I think it was important to be realistic about Speaker 1 11:28 that at the start. Yeah, absolutely. And I think exactly like you said, Hugh, those bookings for weddings especially aren't immediate. They're kind of, you know, 12 months, 18 months, sometimes two years down the line. Yes, you do get the occasional one that comes in last minute. But I think when you're first starting out, you have these visions of, right, I'm going to qualify, and then I'm going to start working straight away. And actually, the ceremonies tend to be, you know, the following year, so it takes that time to kind of build that up. And I think that's the thing that's important to note for people who are maybe thinking about doing it as a career, that actually doing it alongside what you're already doing. If you've got that flexibility in your current work, that's really important, isn't it, to make sure that you can kind of build it up, I guess, yeah, 100% Speaker 2 12:09 you know, you can never tell how successful you're going to be. And I think we've talked about the timeline. Then, I think from that first we did the one wedding in the September, and then for 2023, then we had, we took seven bookings, amazing. And then for 2024 then it went up to 38 brilliant. So, yeah, some of them had booked sort of beginning of 23 424, but if we'd have stopped working, or completely cut down 2023 you know, that would exactly wouldn't have been sensible Speaker 1 12:41 at all. Yeah, it wouldn't have worked. So I guess you had to do that kind of juggle of both for a little while. But then once it started building momentum, it's kind of like the snowball effect, isn't it? It just kind of gathers, and the more people see you doing it, the more people recommend you, etc. I think Speaker 3 12:54 that's right. I think you know, you can't Instagram and social media is great, but word of mouth has come up with so many bookings for us, there's nothing. There's no replacement for seeing someone in the flesh. And it's the same with, you know, live music or whatever you know, if you've got to see someone in the person to really know what, what the vibe is that they bring, and what qualities they can bring to your wedding. So yeah, so the momentum has built. And then I think this year is 4041 45 Unknown Speaker 13:22 Yeah, one Speaker 3 13:24 does all the admin. So we'll talk about what each of us bring to it. Nia does all that. So 45 this year, and then already bookings for 2026 2027 amazing. So, yeah, Speaker 1 13:34 fantastic. So let's talk a little bit about that. Then, day to day. Obviously you just mentioned Nia. Does the admin? Is that how it works? Do you kind of, you know, working as a duo? Do does it literally just mean two celebrants under one roof, or does it mean that you run it as more of like a company, where you have different roles? Unknown Speaker 13:51 I think we definitely have different roles. You're so Speaker 1 13:54 good at knowing who to answer as well. I love that, where you look at each other like you take this Speaker 3 13:57 one. We definitely have different roles. As I said, Nia is admin. NIA has the initial, initial calls, does all the booking forms, does all the contracts, does all the invoicing, all of those things, yeah? But, like, pretty well, everything we've ever done I get to do just the fun bit, yeah, but, but. But otherwise, a lot of it is, is it is teamwork. So for example, if one of us writes a script, the other one proofreads it, or says, Well, have you thought about trying this? Or, or, or, we'll put a little note in there. So look, you know, there's a really good story in the in the couple's questionnaire, but can you make it funnier? That's yeah. So all of, all of our scripts are sort of teamwork, just to make just to give it that second eye and and I think that's a real plus point for us, because if you're just a lone ranger, you haven't got that thing person to bounce, yeah, Speaker 1 14:54 exactly. Or if you have, they sit there looking bored on the setting, like my husband when I read my script. Why? Know that he'll know the couples by the nickname. So, like, last year, I had two that were just obsessed with bunny rabbits, and he was like, Is this the rabbit couple? I was like, Yeah, that's it. And that's the thing. He's a teacher, so he definitely does the proofreading for me, but in a different way, more to spell check, yeah, but I think that's the thing. And what would you say are maybe some of the benefits about working with another celebrant, like, alongside, you know, having each other, would you say? Is those extra ideas, or are there any other things that you can think of that are, you know, real benefits of working as a team? Speaker 2 15:27 I think the extra idea is, obviously, we've got sort of twice as much or different things that have happened in each ceremony. So something has happened, yeah? Whether that's something good or something that could have gone better, yeah, we'll we've got twice as much to learn from exactly, and we always Speaker 3 15:46 have a little debrief after each ceremony, whether it's a wedding or a funeral or if we you know, as we get into wedding season now, we are both out every single Saturday, so we'll come back home, reconvene at whatever time, have a glass of wine, and say, Right, you go first, I'll go second. Talk about the good things, talk about the bad things, talk about things we could have done differently. And so it's a constant learning curve. And I think, I think that's that's the key to being a successful celebrity. You never take anything for granted. You never drop your standard, yeah, and you always look to try and improve. Speaker 1 16:18 Yeah. And you're learning something all the time, aren't you? And and I think that's the thing exactly, like you say, after every ceremony I go to, there's always something I learn, and I think, Oh, I'm gonna do that slightly differently next time. Or that worked really well. I love that. I'm gonna make sure that I do that again. Like, I think that's probably something that works really well. And then how is it like, how do you manage to switch off, if you're living together, working together, you're both doing the same role, do you literally just live and, you know, breathe weddings? Or do you get to have like, you know, do you still get that downtime where you can both switch off and and just be husband and wife, or you're always business partners? Unknown Speaker 16:53 That's a good question. Speaker 3 16:56 One thing we have started doing is booking a holiday. Yeah, nice. So once a year, week or 10 days in August, and that is blocked out. Pay for it as much as possible in advance. And therefore that's in the diary. The kids know we're going, we know we're going to have that week or 10 days just the four of us. And I think that's crucial. You've got that something to look forward to, and when you're there, you get that proper time to switch off generally at this time of year, it is quite relentless. We've just done in four days, six ceremonies between the two of us. Wow. And obviously, it's not just those four days where you're doing the ceremonies, with all the traveling, with delivering the services. We also offer an MC service as well, so you can be there till 910, 11 at night. But it's also meeting with the couples. It's also writing the scripts, proofreading the scripts, bouncing the ideas back and forth, and correspondence with the couples WhatsApp. We set up a WhatsApp group for every couple, and we're bouncing back and forth. So the number of hours that goes into each ceremony is quite crazy. When you actually think about, I'm sure, you know, you've had exactly the same, yeah, the average, Speaker 1 18:07 yeah, I think probably 20 to 30 when I last looked. And it really does depend. And as you guys all know, you'll get some couples that it's 30 plus sometimes, and you'll get some couples that it's 10 or 15 because it's, you know, they're quite straightforward, and they're happy with what you write. There's no changes on the script. It's, you know, it does really vary. But I think, exactly like you say, it's not just what you see on the day. I think that's probably a quarter to a third of the work. I think most of it is is in the run up, and everything that you do prepared. Speaker 3 18:34 Same with funerals as well. You know, you might have one where they want something very straightforward, and they live locally, and the crematorium is local to us. Or they might live away. They might want something as close to the limit as they've got, and you might spend another 19 or 20 hours, yeah, between the meetings, etc. So, so yeah, every service is completely different. I think that's the take home from this industry so far. Yeah, every single service there is something different. Speaker 1 19:07 What's it like compared to being solicitors? Is it? Is it a more varied career? Yeah, that's it. Speaker 2 19:13 There's a lot of transferable skills, yeah, a lot of similarities in terms of, you know, a lot of writing, a lot of reading, a lot of empathy, understanding, yeah, speaking to couples, then it's really stressful times of their lives, even though it's a lot happier usually than Yeah, yeah. But we actually work together as solicitors. Did you? I was gonna ask that? Yeah? So it is handy to have somebody there to vent to, I guess, if you're feeling stressed, somebody who understands. So, yeah, it's very different. A lot more fun, yeah, a lot more, you know, a lot more creativity involved. But. In some ways it is quite similar. Speaker 3 20:01 Yeah, I don't think we'd be able to do what we do now without our legal careers. Yeah, having had that background, I think, you know, we're both very grateful for that. We've obviously got very understanding employers who've allowed us to reduce our hours as this side of the business has grown. I suppose the main difference for me is that when I was sat at that desk, and this is why no one can get me on the phone, that's why they have the phone, when that phone used to ring and it could ring 1520, 25, times a day, it was always a problem, right? Yeah, yeah. Whereas now with the couples or the families are meeting, we're offering solutions either at the happiest time of their lives or the ability to make the saddest times of their life just that tiny, tiny bit easy and just take one thing away from at the worst time of their lives. Unknown Speaker 20:50 So, so yeah, that would, I would say, would be the main Speaker 1 20:54 difference. Yeah, that's something that's, you know, really, really nice. And what would you say in terms of celebrancy? Have you got, like, a favorite area of celebrancy? Would you say, you know, Nia? Is it weddings for you or or do you really love the namings, or do you really love the kind of, you know, consultant stage, like, Do you have a favorite part of celebrancy? It's definitely the Speaker 2 21:13 wedding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I've always loved weddings, really, you know, always wanted to be able to work in the wedding industry, but didn't have a skill like a florist or a, you know, stationery or cakes or anything like that. So I kind of always dismissed it, yeah, I haven't got anything to bring to the table until, yeah, yeah. So, you know, just being caught up in that bubble of the happiest days of people's lives, and just to see, you know, when the bride is getting ready in the morning, and just everyone is so happy around them. And to be able to be a part of that is just, it just sort of makes me giddy. Speaker 1 21:49 Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? When you get to a wedding, you think, Wow, this my office for today. Like, wow. Like, yeah, when you look around, it never gets old. I think that feeling, it's very exciting for Speaker 3 21:57 me. It's, of course, it's very hard to compare the two situations, but I did a wedding on Saturday down in get levar woodland retreat, beautiful venue. Shout out to Reese and Lauren, who were absolutely amazing but, but they sent me a lovely, lovely message the next day, and I texted them back to say, I just feel so humble and honored that that was working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most amazing day with the most amazing people, and the sun was out, and by the end of this, this is my job, yeah? And they were so lovely, and I'd love hope that we, you know, we catch up with them again. Because by the end of the day, I just felt like a guest. Yeah, I was so welcomed. It was amazing. But on the flip side, with the funerals, you know, it's, I don't think it's for everyone, because that, you know, and we talked about the training before, how can you train someone to walk through that door for the first time when they're totally bereft? So I don't think it is for everyone. I think it is a special skill that that celebrants are able to bring funeral. Celebrants are able to bring to the table where you go in, you don't know what is going to await you, but to be able to sort of help them through those few days or the weeks before the service is a real honor. I find it an absolute privilege to be able to tell these people's stories, because it's the last chance to tell that story. And I do consider it a genuine honor. It really Speaker 1 23:22 is. And I think that's the thing, when you're sat there, you know, in that family meeting, you're hearing these stories, so many inspirational stories about people's lives, like just some of the things that you learn in those in those meetings is incredible. I mean, obviously I'm hopeless romantic, and I love to hear a couple stories, and I love to hear how they met and how they fell in love, but when you're hearing some of these life stories of, you know, sometimes people have reached the age of 100 or and they've just lived this incredible life, and to be able to sit there, and that is, you know, your job to listen and interpret these stories and turn them into a celebration is, is like you say, such a privilege? Yeah, I Speaker 3 23:57 agree. And I think that the love stories, especially when people are saying that, well, they've been together for 5560, 5560, 65 years. Yeah, you know, that's sort of really why you do it. But at the same time, I'm a great believer that whatever path you've gone down, everyone deserves that day. Everyone deserves that day where they get their story told and they're given a fitting, respectful service. So that's what we we try, try and provide. Speaker 1 24:20 Yeah, 100% I love that. So what would you say then, is next for you guys as a celebrant team? Have you got, you know, any ambitions or any bucket list ceremonies that you want to deliver, or do you just want to keep absolutely nailing these life celebrations and doing what you do best? Speaker 2 24:37 I think we're just so grateful to be where we are now that we couldn't have imagined two years ago being in this position, really, you know, the end of last year, we won the Unknown Speaker 24:50 Welsh national wedding awards. Amazing. Speaker 2 24:54 Thank you. So that was again, couldn't have even imagined that a year previously. So at the. Know, there are obviously venues we'd like to work at, places we'd like to go. We haven't yet done a destination wedding. Oh, that would be on the bucket list, I think. But at the moment, I think all we can do is be grateful and hope to carry on the way we're Speaker 3 25:15 going. Yeah, I think we do. We feel very lucky, very blessed, that we're at the place now that we wanted to be when we first started? Yeah, of course. Of course. There are times you think, how am I going to you know, there's not enough hours in the day, but this is what we wanted. So you do have to be careful what you wish for, but it's exactly what one but I think for me, it's just keep improving. Keep improving every single service we deliver. You never drop the standards, yeah. Always give everyone, whatever their story, whatever their journey, you give them the same commitment, absolutely. Speaker 1 25:46 So let's talk a little bit about that. That's, that's, you know, inspired me with another question. When you say there's not enough hours in the day, that is something that I think you know, you don't see those hidden hours. You don't see those put the kids to bed and get the laptop out, and off we go and and I guess, especially the fact that both of you are doing the same job, you probably do have a lot of evenings where you'll carry on working. How have you found the adjustment going from being employed to running a business? How has that worked? And you know, what kind of some of the challenges that you faced? Speaker 3 26:16 I think that the phrase is find a job you love. You never work another day in your life, and I think that that is how we would sort of equate it really, ultimately, you know, it's all, it's all for a common goal. Ultimately, everything we do is for the kids. I know that sounds very cliche, but ultimately, you know, they are our life, and we work these hours. And, you know, people do say to me friends about, how do you fit it all in that well, you get up a bit early. You stay up a bit later. There's always ways to do it whilst at the same time. You have to find that time to focus on each other, to focus on your children, have that family time. Otherwise you burn you'd burn yourselves out. So I think that's where we're a good sort of bit of ballast between us, where we say, Do you know what we've got on a break here? We've got to go for a walk up the mountain. We've got of a glass of wine. We've got to turn our phones off, and I think that's where we do work well as a team, to make sure that happens, otherwise it would become repetitive, would become a chore, because you're just churning out. And I think that's when you'd lose the quality. Yeah, come at it with a fresh perspective. Speaker 1 27:20 Yeah, absolutely. And do you ever do ceremonies together? Is it always just one of you? Would you ever go and you'll lead a ceremony together? Unknown Speaker 27:27 We have done for friends, mainly for friends. Speaker 3 27:30 I mean, ultimately, for what someone said. You know what? We want, that mix of husband and wife, then people are very welcome to book both of us. But we've done four or five for for good friends, yeah, and I think it works really well. I obviously make sure I get all the good, funny punch lines of truth to that, yeah. But no, we have done a few, and we've worked at funerals together, or we go up and just add some extra support to the family if we both happen to be free. So, yeah, where possible, you know, we enjoy working together. Speaker 1 28:09 That's lovely. And if a booking came in, say, I'm, you know, a bride, I'm getting married next year, and I find your website and I inquire, how do you decide who is the celebrant for Speaker 2 28:18 me, it would generally be me for the first port of call. If somebody wanted a man, then Unknown Speaker 28:24 we have, here we go back Speaker 2 28:28 and there are fewer men, male celebrants, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, if somebody wanted that, then that's something we can provide. Obviously, it. I think we just fell into it that I would take the lead. I think maybe you were doing the funeral training at the time. But then, if I'm already booked, then he will, he will take the booking. And then, like I said, we work on on the scripts together, Unknown Speaker 28:53 and it'll just be one of us on the day then. Speaker 3 28:56 But you know, there's no obligation to book, to book either of us if they want to discovery, call with both of us together, and they want to be brutal and say, right after that, we'll have you, yeah, Unknown Speaker 29:09 we're not precious. Speaker 2 29:11 You know, it's, it's our business, yeah, whichever one of us is, is, is working. It's business for for both of us, Speaker 1 29:19 absolutely. And I bet being able to have that flexibility, where you can say yes when you're already booked is lovely, because that's one thing I really struggle with, where, you know a date's been taken, and I get the inquiry in, and it's at a dream venue, and the couple sound just like my kind of people, and then I have to say, I'm really sorry I'm booked. So being able to have that flexibility, I guess, and does it happen where on the call, they're like, oh, we'll have a think about it, and then you're both waiting with bated breath to see who they've picked. Speaker 3 29:47 That's more you. You're the one who, after a call, is there within about three minutes. Oh, they haven't they haven't met. Unknown Speaker 29:55 They clearly hate me. Let's Speaker 3 29:57 give them half an hour. Yeah. Better? Yeah, well, I'm a lot more relaxed about it. And I think when you have that call, it's as much about them deciding if you're the right celebrant for them, but also you deciding, are they the right people to work with? Yeah, I think there has to be that relationship where, where you're going to have the process has got to be fun. I think because unlike with a with a registrar, where they turn up on the day and do the same thing as they've done the last one, the last one, last one with this, it's a journey. And from that minute you've booked you, then you become friends almost, and you learn so much about them. And as I said, we have this Whatsapp group which is pinging at all times of the night where people have sort of sat bolt up, right? And thought, I've thought of something. I've got a text. Yeah. So yeah, I think it has become a real journey. And I think that's what we try and say, sell is the wrong word. But try to explain to our couples that the process is going to be fun of laughs, and then when you get there on the day, we've had a meeting in person, person, them already, but if not two. We try and see them before the big day as well. But when you turn up on the day, it's like seeing friends, yeah, and you want, and I think it makes you want to do an even better job for them. When you have that personal connection, Speaker 1 31:13 Oh, absolutely. It's like that, yeah, just that extra thing that you go, I want to do a good job for you, because I know how much you deserve it, and I know what you're like. And you get to know them, don't you? Speaker 3 31:22 And you know that the troubles they've had to get and a lot of them won't actually go into the script, but you know the journey they've been on to get to this place and how much it means to Speaker 1 31:33 them? Yeah, absolutely. And what would you say then, is your favorite thing about the job, and what's something that you find hard? Speaker 2 31:41 That's a really good question. I think the favorite thing is just seeing how happy those couples are from a wedding point of view, obviously, seeing how happy they are and that you have we have contributed in some way towards that happiness and just be part of the happiest day of their lives. I think the hardest part then is what we talked about, the bits that people don't see behind the scenes. Yes, the hours of writing. You know, sometimes you have that sort of creative block, don't you know, absolutely, I've got to leave this for a bit. Yeah, yeah, come back to it. Yeah, another time. And then it always comes, doesn't it? But it's just all that, what, what people don't see behind the scene? Speaker 3 32:22 Absolutely? Yeah, I suppose to take a look at it from a funeral perspective. The The best part is, is certainly that the feedback you get afterwards, where people say, Do you know what? You've really helped us. You really get provided a service that we needed at the time, and you made it just a tiny bit easier. And that means the absolute world from the hard point of view, I suppose. Ultimately, you know, with a funeral, it's less about choosing the right one, because it happens in such a short space of time. And ultimately, you meet people from different aspects of life, people that you wouldn't necessarily hang out with in real life, yeah. And so it can be, you know, hard if you're if your script is picked apart a bit more in bit more detail than normal, or if people you know, you do the service, you think you know what I did, a really good job there, you never hear from them again. Yeah. So a little bit what we were talking about earlier. Then we are still sensitive souls. Because you I think when you care about it. You do put your heart and soul into it. And I think, I think some people still think of it as you're just providing a service. You're getting paid for it. You're providing a service, whereas actually you've, you've done more than that. You've really invested so many hours. But of course, people don't realize that. Why should they know? Why should they think you've, yeah, they paid you good money, yeah. And so why should they be writing you a thank you card? But most people, I think, you know, in this world, 99% of people are lovely, and you realize that in this job, both with weddings and funerals, 99% of people in the Speaker 1 33:56 world, yeah. And so, how did you balance family life alongside working weekends, because my children at the moment are three and two, so they're not quite at school yet, but from September, my eldest will be at school five days a week. So I'm now thinking, Oh, next year, I don't want to do as many Saturdays. How do you find that balance? Especially if you're both working weekends, it Speaker 2 34:17 is tricky. We're very lucky. We've got a massive support network. Both families are local to us. Kids love going to grandparents, oh yeah, and cousins, getting spoiled. I won't lie, it is tricky some weekends, you know, especially over the summer, where there are sort of six Saturdays in a row where we're both working. But our kids are 10 and 11 now, so they understand a little bit more that they want to go on a nice holiday. This is what, this is why. This is how we're going to be able to have that holiday. Is absolutely Speaker 3 34:47 yeah, but I think it's so important that you get that holiday into the diary. Speaker 1 34:50 Yeah, that's such a good point when you said that. It's so true. Speaker 3 34:53 Yeah, it's been crucial, you know, because they're 1011 as much as they're a little bit more independent, yeah? This is the time where they need us most. I think they're sort of transitioning. My daughter's just gone to secondary school, and she's gone over one summer from being my little girl to sort of on the verge of being a teenager. Wow. And the change has been unbelievable, so I'm not coping with it. But I think, you know, I still want to have that, you know, that dad daughter relationship with her, and so you have to invest the time in them as well. Yeah, we can't just, you know, be blink and think things are going well, let's keep you know, you have to have that balance. Yeah, it's absolutely crucial. Speaker 1 35:33 And I think when it's your own business, it's so hard to say, No, you get kind of addicted, don't you, to those bookings. And when you get a day and you look in the diary and you're free, you're like, oh, yeah, great. And then actually, you're like, No, I need to make sure that I'm keeping that balance in check as well. And I Speaker 2 35:46 think on the flip side as well, though, rather, now that we are self employed, I pick up our son from school every day. Lovely. I didn't do that. No, exactly. We can go to sports days and whatever. You know, parents evenings, go to them. We just have to be flexible. We just adjust things around. So while we are busy, a lot of Saturdays, I'm always there. I'm in the house. When they come home from school, they might not want to see me. You know, we've got that flexibility now, yeah, that we can do things in the week that we couldn't when we were full time employed, Speaker 1 36:22 absolutely. And I think it's even just things like their birthdays, that birthday is in the diary, although I nearly took a booking for my son's force, but fourth birthday this summer. And then I was like, Oh no, hang on, it's Speaker 2 36:31 Woody's birthday. Yeah, we were. We had an inquiry a couple of years ago, and she was adamant, yeah, not happening exactly. Speaker 3 36:37 It's one thing in our house that is not allowed. Yeah, birthdays are left free, absolutely. Speaker 1 36:41 But how lovely that. Because you are your own bosses, you can do that, and you can say, No, we're not ever going to work on the kids birthdays, or we're always going to take that holiday like I think that's what's something that is so important to remember. Because especially when you're just starting out, you do want to say yes to everything. And yes, you may have a year or two where you have to to build it up, but then eventually it's good to make sure that you are allowing yourself those breaks. Speaker 3 37:04 I think so. I think you have to recognize the value of that family time. It's all very well to say another wedding would bring in x pounds, or another funeral would bring in y pounds. You cannot put a price on that time. And they grow up so fast. There's some amazing statistic that when they're 18, you've already spent 90% of your time with them, something Unknown Speaker 37:24 heartbreaking. So this, Speaker 3 37:26 you know, this, this is it. This isn't the dress rehearsal. Yeah, this is your chance to have that time with them and build that relationship with them that's going to last, hopefully, many decades to come, your lifetime. So, you know, you said you can't put a price on that. The value of that is more than taking an extra one just for the sake of it. Speaker 2 37:44 So but they are, you know, they, they are now getting interested in the business as well. Yeah, especially our daughter. She's always like, what did what? What did they wear? Can I see a photo? Oh, she looks so lovely. And our son had had a ceremony last year where the couple wanted to put they were big fans of Mandalorian. Oh, wow. He's watched it, and he gave me some quotes, all that stuff. So they are now getting to days where they're getting a little bit sort of interested. Speaker 3 38:08 And, yeah, hopefully one day, well, I mean, the business is called Seren celebrant. Our daughter is Seren. That's where it comes from. So hopefully one day they'll they'll both be involved. But probably her more than him. She's the she's the performer, if you like, and, but, yeah, nice. They're both taking an interest. And hopefully it can be a family business in the future. Speaker 1 38:27 Oh, I love that. Maybe there'll be a sibling duo instead of husband and wife. Yeah, he'll do the admin. And so how do you balance family life alongside working weekends, because my children at the moment are three and two, so they're not quite at school yet, but from September, my eldest will be at school five days a week. So I'm now thinking, Oh, next year, I don't want to do as many Saturdays. How do you find that balance? Especially if you're both working weekends? It is tricky. Speaker 2 38:56 We're very lucky. We've got a massive support network. Both families are local to us. Kids love going to grandparents, oh yeah, and cousins, getting spoiled. I won't lie, it is tricky some weekends, you know, especially over the summer, where there are sort of six Saturdays in a row where we're both working. But our kids are 10 and 11 now, so they understand a little bit more that they want to go on a nice holiday. This is what, this is why. This is how we're going to be able to have that holiday. But I think Unknown Speaker 39:27 it's so important you get that holiday into the diary. Speaker 1 39:29 Yeah, that's such a good point. When you said that, it's so true, yeah, Speaker 3 39:33 it's been crucial, you know, because they're 10 and 11, as much as they're a little bit more independent, this is the time where they need us most. I think they're sort of transitioning. My daughter's just gone to secondary school, and she's gone over one summer from being my little girl to sort of on the verge of being a teenager, and the change has been unbelievable. So I'm not coping with it, but I think, you know, I still want to have that. You know that? Dad daughter, relationship with her, and so you have to invest the time in them as well. Yeah, we can't just, you know, be blink and think things are going well, let's keep you know, you have to have that balance. Yeah, it's absolutely crucial. Speaker 1 40:11 And I think when it's your own business, it's so hard to say, No, you get kind of addicted, don't you, to those bookings. And when you get a day and you look in the diary and you're free, you're like, oh, yeah, great. And then actually, you're like, No, I need to make sure that I'm keeping that balance in check as well. Speaker 2 40:24 And I think on the flip side as well, though, rather, now that we are self employed, I pick up our son from school every day. Lovely. I didn't do that. No, exactly. We can go to sports days and whatever. You know, parents evenings, we can go to them. We just have to be flexible. We just adjust things around. So while we are busy, a lot of Saturdays, I'm always there. I'm in the house. When they come home from school, they might not Unknown Speaker 40:51 want to see me. Speaker 2 40:53 You know, we've got that flexibility now, yeah, that we can do things in the week that we couldn't when we were full time employed, Speaker 1 41:01 absolutely. And I think it's even just things like their birthdays, that birthday is in the diary, although I nearly took a booking for my son's fourth, fourth birthday this summer, and then I was like, Oh no, hang on, it's Woody's Speaker 2 41:10 birthday. Yeah, we were. We had an inquiry a couple of years ago, and she was adamant, Speaker 3 41:15 yeah, it's one thing in our house that is not allowed. Yeah, birthdays are left free, Speaker 1 41:19 absolutely. But how lovely that. Because you are your own bosses, you can do that, and you can say, No, we're not ever going to work on the kids birthdays, or we're always going to take that holiday like I think that's what's something that is so important to remember. Because especially when you're just starting out, you do want to say yes to everything. And yes, you may have a year or two where you have to to build it up, but then eventually it's good to make sure that you are allowing yourself those breaks. Speaker 3 41:43 I think so. I think you have to recognize the value of that family time. It's all very well to say another wedding would bring in x pounds, or another funeral would bring in y pounds. You cannot put a price on that time. And they grow up so fast. There's some amazing statistic that when they're 18, you've already spent 90% of your time with them, something heartbreaking. So this, you know, this, this is it. This isn't the dress rehearsal. Yeah. This is your chance to have that time with them and build that relationship with them that's going to last, hopefully many decades to come, your lifetime. So, you know, you said you can't put a price on that. The value of that is more than taking an extra one just for the sake of it. So but they Speaker 2 42:23 are, you know, they, they are now getting interested in the business as well, especially our daughter. She's always like, what did what did they wear? Can I see a photo? Oh, she looks so lovely. And our son had had a ceremony last year where the couple wanted to put they were big fans of Mandalorian. Oh, wow. He's watched it, and he gave me some quotes, all that stuff. So they are now getting to days where they're getting a little bit sort of interested. And, yeah, hopefully Speaker 3 42:48 one day, well, I mean, the business is called Sarah, and celebrants, our daughter is Sarah. That's where it comes from. So hopefully one day they'll they'll both be involved, but probably her more than him. She's the, she's the performer, if you like, and but, yeah, nice. They're both taking an interest, and hopefully it can be a family business in the future. Speaker 1 43:06 Oh, I love that. Maybe there'll be a sibling duo instead of husband and wife. Yeah, he'll do the admin. Okay, so before we finish, then I always ask my guest this, what's your one piece of advice for anyone who's listening and they're thinking about considering, you know, becoming a celebrant themselves. Speaker 3 43:26 Yeah, I touched upon it earlier, but I think it's that fail to prepare. Prepare to fail. Yes, that's thing. You can just never, never drop your standard. So if you, if you've written a script, you think that's a great script, you've then got to read through it, 1015, 20 times. There's never enough time. So if you've got to get up an hour earlier, if you've got to you know what I tend to do is I get to with Neil, talk about weddings with funerals. I make sure I'm at the crematorium two hours in advance, and I'm sat in my car going over it and over, yeah, and I think actually, that would be work better there. Oh my goodness, I've repeated the word lovely there and there, so I'll change that. So you just want to make it perfect and just never, never be afraid to improve and improve, and also look at yourself and be very, very critical. That's probably a bit of a harsh word, but critical of your performance. Because actually, when you're being critical, you're actually improving. Oh, absolutely, every single Speaker 1 44:24 time. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the thing us as mentors, we find at AMC, that when we're giving that, you know, constructive criticism, that feedback, it's never, ever a reflection on that person. It's actually we know what they're capable of, yeah, and we know that they can push that bit or, you know, if they tweak that bit slightly, it's going to elevate their script to the next level. And I think that's the thing, exactly like you say, you learn so much every day in this job. And I think that starts from the training. You learn it so much every time you write a new script. So yeah, and what about yourself? Speaker 2 44:54 Nia, I would say the job is what you make it and you i. Have to work hard. You want to, you know, it's not just about completing the training and then going out and getting the bookings. You have got to network. You've got to nail your social media. You've got to get a website. You've got, you've got to invest, you know, financially and time wise, the Speaker 3 45:15 number of wedding fairs you've done? Yeah, I've not done one. Yeah, that is my worst nightmare, but first place in here, she is away almost every Sunday at different wedding fairs, meeting people. And sometimes she'll come back and say, I've had one conversation. Other times, she already got three emails by the time she's at home. So so I do take my hat off to near in that department, you've got to have that dedication, to keep getting the bookings. You can't just rest on your Speaker 2 45:43 LA. They're not just going to fly in. Absolutely no, no. It's got to be about making connections with with venues, with other wedding suppliers, word of mouth, getting yourself out there, otherwise people are not going to know you exist. Speaker 1 45:56 Yeah, absolutely no. That's such a good point. And I think, like you say, the networking is just so, so vital and so important, and it does pay off the minute you you know you'll go to these wedding fairs, and you might not hear from the couples that you meet on the day for another six months, but they'll come back and go, Oh, we met you at a wedding fair at that time, and now we're ready to book. And exactly like you say, you just got to keep going, haven't you? And Penny always says, who's the head of learning at AMC, she always says, What have you done to work on your business today. Just do one thing a day, even if it's your day off, or, you know, just tell somebody. Oh, did you know I'm a celebrant, or, you know, whatever. And it's always, you know, that always pays off. Oh, that's great. Well, thank you so much to both of you for coming on. Thank you for being guests. I feel like I could chat to you for hours, as always happens when I have guests on beyond the ceremony. But thank you so much for joining me and all the best for Seren celebrants for the future. Speaker 3 46:43 Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. Thanks very much. Thanks. Speaker 1 46:46 Thanks for listening to today's episode of beyond the ceremony. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe. See you next time you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai