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Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager - Should Faith Influence the Way We Vote? | A Midterm Reflection · LifeAudio

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life audio on today's episode of timeless wisdom.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: People speak about this well we don't want religion to
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: uh shape our laws we don't want religion to shape
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  Speaker 2: our politicians religion belongs in the church the synagogue the
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: home well this is an amazingly bigoted statement and one
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  Speaker 2: that's intellectually incoherent what should influence our.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Laws That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: hours of Dennis' lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so thanks to you all. And now let me
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: get to my topic at hand. There was once a time...
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: when people were told, there are two subjects that if
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: you want to continue having nice relations at a dinner party,
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  Speaker 2: you don't talk about, religion and politics. So thank you
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: for coming to hear me speak on religion and politics.
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  Speaker 2: It is obviously central to questions of politics today.
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  Speaker 3: We have had.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: A Mormon for the first time seriously run for president
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: of the United States. We have had an evangelical former
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Baptist minister run running for president. And it is it
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  Speaker 2: is really. We've had a Jew for vice president as
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the nominee. This is the sort of thing I always
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  Speaker 2: think only in America. I mean, my God, I was
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: a little boy.
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  Speaker 3: When John F.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Kennedy ran and people asked, well, can a Catholic run
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  Speaker 2: for president?
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  Speaker 3: See, the funny thing is for Jews.
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  Speaker 2: Certainly I, who was utterly ignorant of Christians and Christianity,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, for God's sake, I was ignorant of non-Orthodox Jews.
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  Speaker 2: I grew up in the Yeshiva world in Brooklyn, New York,
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  Speaker 2: and I met all types of Orthodox Jews. That was
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  Speaker 2: the worldliness of my encounter.
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  Speaker 3: I remember trying to grab.
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  Speaker 2: You know, any minutes I could with the mailman because
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  Speaker 2: he was different.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: It didn't matter to me what he was. I just knew,
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  Speaker 2: by God, he's not an Orthodox Jew. I've got to
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: talk to him. So my life has come a long
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: way in that way. But I look at America now.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, to think that at that time it was
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  Speaker 2: a question if you were a Catholic. And, of course,
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  Speaker 2: it didn't turn out to be a question for the
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  Speaker 2: vast majority of Americans.
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  Speaker 3: And, you know, what will the next be?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, a Muslim will run certainly at
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  Speaker 2: some point. And an atheist will run.
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  Speaker 3: And I have a lot to say about that that
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: may surprise you. But I think.
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  Speaker 2: In keeping with my motto of my preference for clarity
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  Speaker 2: over agreement, I hope it will help all of us
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  Speaker 2: attain some clarity on that question about the religiosity of
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  Speaker 2: public figures. So let me begin because I am so
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  Speaker 2: well acquainted with the confusion that a lot of people have, including.
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  Speaker 3: Especially many Jews.
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  Speaker 2: Many Jews are very frightened by the idea of the
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  Speaker 2: intrusion of religion into politics. That is worthy of its
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  Speaker 2: own lecture. And for those of you who want that lecture,
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  Speaker 2: I have one which I've given a lifetime of thought to.
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  Speaker 2: It's on CD or downloadable, and it's called Why Are
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Jews Liberal?, And a part of liberalism, today at least,
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  Speaker 2: is a certain worry, to put it mildly, about the
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  Speaker 2: intrusion of religion into politics.
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  Speaker 3: For the life of me, and.
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  Speaker 2: I have a lot of experience in this, being a
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  Speaker 2: talk show host every day, and talking to people who
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  Speaker 2: express these concerns, I.
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  Speaker 3: Still don't know what the worry is. And I mean
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  Speaker 3: it sincerely.
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  Speaker 2: And I would like you all to leave whatever your
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  Speaker 2: politics and whatever your views on religion, asking yourself the question, gee,
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  Speaker 2: what was I so worried about? I have never understood
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  Speaker 2: what all the worry is. That what exactly will happen?
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  Speaker 2: That a Catholic president will forbid Americans from eating meat
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  Speaker 2: on Friday? A Jewish vice president will demand that all
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  Speaker 2: restaurants serve kosher?
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  Speaker 3: What is the worry? And I have never been able
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  Speaker 3: to get, never, I have interviewed author after author of
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  Speaker 3: books warning us about the religious right. And I want
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  Speaker 3: to say this at the outset. They are all incoherent.
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  Speaker 3: It is pure emotion. Pure emotion. Now, you have to
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  Speaker 3: deal with emotion. By the way, there's a lot of
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  Speaker 3: emotion on the right.
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  Speaker 2: There are people on the right who will say, for example,
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  Speaker 2: they wouldn't vote for a John McCain. There are Christians
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  Speaker 2: who wouldn't vote for a Mormon. And I understand everybody's fears.
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  Speaker 3: That I do.
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  Speaker 2: I understand the Jew who's worried about religion and politics.
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  Speaker 2: I understand the evangelical who's worried about a Mormon president.
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  Speaker 2: I understand the conservative who's worried about a John McCain.
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  Speaker 2: That I can say I do. I understand, but... People
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  Speaker 2: have to grapple with their fears. That's what growth is.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes fears are appropriate. I do fear Islamic terror.
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  Speaker 3: I do. I do fear the staggering... I fear.
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  Speaker 2: I fear the staggering number of Americans either having one
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  Speaker 2: child or no child. I fear the number of men
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  Speaker 2: who are not committing to marriage.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I have a lot of fears. And there is,
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  Speaker 3: there are, there she is. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Talking about that, by the way, there is something you
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  Speaker 2: might want to do if you want to have clarity
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  Speaker 2: about your own thinking.
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  Speaker 3: First, always write. Writing is the mirror of the mind.
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  Speaker 3: We know what the mirror of your face is, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: what is the mirror of your mind?
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  Speaker 2: The answer is writing. So if you want to know
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  Speaker 2: what you think, don't talk, write. And I'm very serious.
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  Speaker 2: And you will find, by the way, when you do,
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  Speaker 2: maybe you don't think as clearly as you thought before,
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  Speaker 2: because when you look at what you're writing, you'll say, well,
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  Speaker 2: I know what I mean. Well, if you know what
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  Speaker 2: you mean, why isn't it clear in writing? So writing,
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  Speaker 2: I want you to write as a homework assignment. When
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  Speaker 2: you go home, I want you to write what your
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  Speaker 2: three or four biggest fears for America are. You will find,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, if you want to know how people vote,
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  Speaker 2: they vote, and totally understandably, they vote their fears. Whether
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  Speaker 2: they're rational or not rational, that's another question.
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  Speaker 3: But I, too, vote my fears. I know what I
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  Speaker 3: fear about America or for America, absolutely. So it's worth
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  Speaker 3: listing your three or four. But on religion, it is,
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  Speaker 3: in my view, entirely incoherent. It is all passion. It
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  Speaker 3: is all irrational. I never understand. I mean, I have interviewed,
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  Speaker 3: I interviewed a law professor at a law school that
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  Speaker 3: took down its Christmas tree. because she said it would
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  Speaker 3: offend non-Christians. So I said to her, I'm a non-Christian,
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  Speaker 3: and I don't even understand that offense. Why is it offensive?
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  Speaker 3: And it was amazing, there was no answer. There isn't
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  Speaker 3: an answer.
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  Speaker 2: Folks, if you are offended by a Christmas tree, there
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: is nothing wrong with the Christmas tree, but there is
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  Speaker 2: something really wrong with you.
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  Speaker 3: I mean that literally. It doesn't mean you're not nice.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you're not kind.
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean I wouldn't entrust my children in your care,
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  Speaker 2: although they're quite old at this point. I wouldn't worry
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  Speaker 2: about them with most anybody, but if they were little,
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  Speaker 2: I wouldn't trust them. When I make these comments, this
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: is unfortunately I have to make this comment. When I
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: make a critical comment like that, it is not meant
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  Speaker 2: as a total statement of the person. It is possible
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  Speaker 2: to be goofy in area A and spectacular in 50
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  Speaker 2: other areas. But you are goofy if a Christmas tree
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  Speaker 2: at a law school offends you. You are. You are hyper,
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  Speaker 2: hyper sensitive in a narcissistic way. I don't observe Christmas
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  Speaker 2: because I'm a religious Jew. However, 90% of my fellow
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  Speaker 2: Americans do observe Christmas.
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  Speaker 3: Why on God's earth could it possibly.
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  Speaker 2: Offend me what 90% of my fellow citizens celebrate? It
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  Speaker 2: is mind-boggling, and I always tell Jews this. Let me
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: ask you, if you are troubled by Merry Christmas and
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  Speaker 2: instead insist on Happy Holidays today, And you're offended if
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  Speaker 2: someone says Merry Christmas.
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  Speaker 3: Let's say you're in Israel.
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  Speaker 2: Always, by the way, it's a good way of figuring
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  Speaker 2: out what's right and wrong. Always put the shoe on
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  Speaker 2: the other foot. So there is a place where Jews predominate.
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  Speaker 2: It is called Israel. On Rosh Hashanah, during the Jewish
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  Speaker 2: New Year, the radio, television, and people in stores wish
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  Speaker 2: everybody Shana Tovah, a happy new year. Well, about a
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  Speaker 2: quarter of Israelis are not Jewish. Now, what if that
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  Speaker 2: quarter of Israelis started a campaign against Shana Tovah, And
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  Speaker 2: changed it.
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  Speaker 3: To, I do not, I am offended when you wish
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  Speaker 3: me a happy new year. That's your new year. That
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  Speaker 3: is not my new year. I would say, sorry. in Israel,
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  Speaker 3: the new year is Rosh Hashanah. That's the way it is.
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  Speaker 2: And you are hypersensitive if you're offended by hearing Shana Tovah.
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  Speaker 2: I would suspect that every Jew who was offended by
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  Speaker 2: Merry Christmas would find it odd if somebody were offended
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  Speaker 2: in Israel by Shana Tovah. So please answer me or
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  Speaker 2: answer to yourself why it's okay for Israeli radio and
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  Speaker 2: TV to say Shana Tova, but it's not okay to
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  Speaker 2: have a Christmas party instead of a holiday party.
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  Speaker 3: What holiday is it anyway? I always wonder, what holiday?
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  Speaker 2: Hanukkah? I don't understand it. I mean, with all respect,
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  Speaker 2: it's generally not Kwanzaa. So what is it? What holiday
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  Speaker 2: are you talking about? Hanukkah was two weeks before Christmas.
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  Speaker 2: So what holiday are you talking about? I don't want
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  Speaker 2: to attend a holiday party. It means nothing to me.
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  Speaker 2: I want to attend a Christmas party.
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  Speaker 3: That's fun.
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  Speaker 2: A holiday party is boring. It's really sad if a
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  Speaker 2: society can celebrate Halloween as Halloween, but it can't celebrate
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  Speaker 2: Christmas as Christmas.
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  Speaker 3: So there is a lot....
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  Speaker 2: There is a lot of nonsense because it's based on
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  Speaker 2: irrational fears. Now, I want to address those fears because
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  Speaker 2: I know what they are.
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  Speaker 3: I am not only a committed Jew. I have fought anti-Semitism.
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  Speaker 2: I was a leader in the Soviet Jewry movement after
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  Speaker 2: my going to the Soviet Union at the age of 21.
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  Speaker 3: And I.
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  Speaker 2: Have written what's considered a fairly good book on anti-Semitism
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: with Rabbi Joseph Telushkin at One of the books that's
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: available here, Why the Jews? The Reason for Antisemitism. I
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  Speaker 2: care a great deal about antisemitism, but I'll tell you this.
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  Speaker 2: You can't fight it if you call things that aren't antisemitic, antisemitic.
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  Speaker 2: Jews have to be very careful before they call something
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  Speaker 2: antisemitic or racist or whatever it might be if it isn't,
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  Speaker 2: because then when the real thing happens, you have cried
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  Speaker 2: wolf by then and nobody will take you seriously. The
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  Speaker 2: fears that Jews have on this are understandable because in
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  Speaker 2: Christian Europe, the Jews fared rather dismally.
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  Speaker 3: That's a very sad fact.
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  Speaker 2: And that is burned into the Jewish psyche. And so
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  Speaker 2: Jews deeply fear any public religiosity as a general rule.
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  Speaker 2: And also remember, most Jews are secular. So there are
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  Speaker 2: many reasons. That would get into my other lecture that
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  Speaker 2: I just mentioned earlier, and I can't spend that much
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  Speaker 2: time on it, but I understand that fear. So let
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  Speaker 2: me answer at least the first problem. America's Christians are
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  Speaker 2: not Europe's Christians, and they have never been. It is
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  Speaker 2: utterly and totally unfair in the deepest sense to place
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  Speaker 2: on the back of America's Christians the Crusades or the Inquisition, as.
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  Speaker 3: Jews regularly do.
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  Speaker 2: Mentioning the Inquisition with regard to American Christians is so unfair.
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  Speaker 3: As to be libelous.
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  Speaker 2: What on God's earth do America's Christians have to do
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  Speaker 2: with the Inquisition?
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  Speaker 3: Nothing. America's Christians fled European Christianity precisely because they wanted
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: to create a freer country and a country where people,
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  Speaker 3: Christian and non-Christian, could celebrate religion freely. That is what
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: was created here.
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  Speaker 2: And what was created here was the best society for
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  Speaker 2: Jews that Jews have.
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  Speaker 3: Ever lived in. And before....
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  Speaker 2: Before I tamper or allow a fellow Jew or non-Jew
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  Speaker 2: to tamper with the foundations of my country, I will.
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  Speaker 3: Fight till I die. And I will end later by telling.
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  Speaker 2: Jews specifically how self-destructive the struggle against the Judeo-Christian nature
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  Speaker 2: of America, any struggle is against that nature, how self-destructive.
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  Speaker 3: For Jews that is. Now, we'll get to that afterwards.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Let me begin, or I did begin, let me further,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: let me continue with some basic philosophical questions. People speak
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: about this. Well, we don't want religion to shape our laws.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: We don't want religion to shape our politicians. Religion belongs
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: in the church, the synagogue, the home. Well, this is
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: an amazingly bigoted statement and one that's intellectually incoherent.
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  Speaker 3: What should influence our laws?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. Now,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
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  Speaker 3: Let me understand this.
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  Speaker 2: This is really important because it goes to the basic question,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: where are our values from? Where are your values from?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Everybody should answer that. That's another one, a homework assignment.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Where'd you get your values from? And there are different answers.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I will have an answer. Others will have an answer.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: There may be multiple sources of your values. But I'll
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: tell you this. If you ask the average college student,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: first of all, they don't think about it. But if
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: you were to ask them this, no, it's very sad.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: In one of the moments that they're sober, if you
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: actually ask them, where do you get your values from? Well,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you this. On one of my listener cruises,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: There was a woman, late 20s, who was on board.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: All of the staff were from different parts of the world.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: She was from Sweden. I am fascinated by Sweden because
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: it is the most deeply secularized of Western societies, to
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the best of my knowledge. So I'm very curious what
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: it produces. So I asked to speak with her. In fact,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I said, may I interview you?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: She said, sure. So I interviewed her. I had my
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: little recorder with me on board.
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  Speaker 2: And I asked her, I began with, she was a
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: graduate student in Sweden when she was not working in
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the ship line, on the cruise line. And I said, well,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: do you believe in God? And with a chuckle, she said, no,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: of course not. I assume then you don't believe in
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: any religion. Of course not. So then I said, all right,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: then I wonder then, where do you get your values from?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: How do you know right from wrong? And she said,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: from my heart. This was an honest and important answer.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: She gets her values from her heart. Others might say,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I get my values from reason. I get my values
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: from books. I get my values from my parents. I
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: get my values from the Enlightenment. I mean, there are
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  Speaker 2: a whole host of non-religious answers. My question is very
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: simply this. Why can you legislate on the basis of
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: the values you get from your heart or from books,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: but I can't legislate on the values I get from
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: my Torah, my Bible? I have never gotten a coherent
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: answer to that because there is no answer.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: It's an utterly arrogant position.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: I am allowed to pass all the laws I want
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  Speaker 2: based on my values that I get from my heart
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: or my conscience. But you can't pass any laws based
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: on what you get from your Bible. And why the
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: hell not?
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: No one, no one has given me an answer.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I have interviewed the greatest leftist thinkers of our time
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: on my radio show.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Transcripts with them are on my website. There is no
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: answer to it.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: It's pure anti-religious bigotry and incoherent arrogance.
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  Speaker 3: My heart trumps your Bible. End of issue.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: My conscience is infinitely wiser than your thousands of years
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: of traditions, Christians and Jews. And not only wiser, that
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: is the only acceptable place to receive values from with
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: which to shape society.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: And it is mind-blowing to me. Why? Why?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Then they'll say, well, because of separation of church and state.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: What does one have to do with the other? Why
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: is that establishing a state religion to get one's values
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: from the Bible? Where did Martin Luther King Jr. get
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: his values?
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  Speaker 3: From Voltaire? No, he never claimed it was Voltaire. He
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: claimed it was the Bible.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Where did the abolitionists of slavery get their values from?
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  Speaker 2: They claimed it was from the Bible. Should we have
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: not accepted the abolitionist movement because it was overwhelmingly religious?
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  Speaker 3: Or is it.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Okay if you get values that people like from the Bible,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: but not okay if you get values people don't like
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: from the Bible?
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  Speaker 3: Answer? That wasn't rhetorical. Answer is yes.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: When Martin Luther King cites the Bible and wishes to
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: change America and change its legislation, it's terrific. But if
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: somebody on a different issue wants to change America or
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: pass a law, basically, on the Bible, then that is
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: fascism or the violation of the separation of church and state.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: It is an incoherent, intellectually incoherent position. It works at
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: the New York Times editorial page because they only talk
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: to each other. Unlike me, who talks to people who
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: differ with me every day... You must understand there is
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: a hermetically sealed intellectual universe in the anti-religious secular activist world.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: The university has no diversity of thought. There are virtually
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: no religious professors in the liberal arts. And if they
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: are religious, they're not out of the closet. It's like
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: the guy who called me years ago. said, and we
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: have a recording of it because all my shows are recorded.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: He said, Dennis, I've got to.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Tell you an interesting thing. I'm an actor here in Hollywood,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: and I'm gay and I'm Republican. And I have long
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: ago come out of the closet as gay, but I
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: would never come out of the closet.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: As a Republican. It is an intellectually sealed world where
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: these questions are not even posed. They're not even posed
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: because it's all passion. It's all irrational fear. I'm all
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: for rational fears, but it's irrational fear.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: If a fellow American believes that marriage should be between
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: a man and a woman remained that definition that Western
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: civilization has always had and their basis is purely reason.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It's acceptable. But if their basis is biblical, then it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: not acceptable? What exactly is the problem here? I don't
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: care what the basis is of your value system. You
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: are allowed to bring it into the American political equation.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Then if you can persuade people who are religious or
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: non-religious that that is a better way to live, then
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: more power to you. But what is possibly objectionable about it?
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: The only possible thing that's objectionable is that people who
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: don't agree.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: With you object to it. That's all. I object to it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Therefore, you shouldn't denunciate it because it's not a value
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I like. My God, if religious judges did what secular
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: judges do, God knows what would go on in this country.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Imposing values that were rejected by the great majority of Americans.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: The definition of marriage is a classic example. Liberal state
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: after liberal state after liberal state. The people vote and
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: they want to keep marriage defined as it is. This
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: is not anti-gay at all.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Not at all.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: It is to keep marriage as it is defined. That is,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: it has been defined. It's called homophobic marriage. Because when
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: you have no rational arguments, you call people names, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: ignorant and bigoted and intolerant.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: And that's it.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Then you don't have to argue with anybody because you've
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: dismissed their humanity. It ends all arguments, doesn't it? Massachusetts voted,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: and they decided that even Massachusetts would like to keep
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: marriage defined man-woman. So some judges said, we don't agree
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: with you. We are on a much higher moral plane
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: than the morons of Massachusetts, than the Neanderthal morality that
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: pervades our state, and therefore we will simply impose our
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: understanding of what marriage should be. Have a great day.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And that is what they do. And imagine if that
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: were done on the other side. That's not right. I
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: wouldn't want religious judges to do that. I wouldn't want
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: judges I agree with to do that. That is not
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the place of a judge. Where do you get your
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: values from? The heart, reason, the Bible, religion, the enlightenment.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Where do you get it from? I don't care where
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: you get it from. You are allowed into the American conversation.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And if you want to pass a law, then you
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: raise it in this democracy and your legislatures will.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Vote on it. And we have made some of them
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: religious ones. Why is Christmas a national holiday?
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, if anything would seem to violate establishment of religion,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: it would be that. That's a purely religious holiday in
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: its origin, certainly, but it's a national holiday.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Why is that allowed?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Why do we have chaplains in the armed forces? Why
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: do chaplains, why do clergy open up every session of Congress?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: The Supreme Court ruled that a rabbi in Rhode Island,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: this was a Supreme Court decision, could not say to
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a graduating class, God bless you, at a public school graduation,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: could not say God bless you.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: But every day there's a religious invocation to open up
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: the Senate and the House by a member of the clergy.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: That's okay. Well, I believe Not believe.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I argue to you on rational grounds that no violation
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: of anything in spirit or in letter of the Constitution
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: is violated if religious people bring their values into the
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: public sphere.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: And if they want to.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Legislate it, well, that's exactly what left and right do
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: all the time. They legislate their morality. If I open
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: a restaurant and I only want to serve whites, I cannot.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I am not allowed because the morality of America says,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: enough Americans say that is immoral, you may not do it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: But that's imposing morality. The left imposes morality, the right
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: imposes morality. The left imposes more morality than the right does, ironically.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: When you think of all the hate speech laws and
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: all the hate crimes legislation and all of the legislation
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: against any form of discrimination, that's a lot of legislating
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: of morality, isn't it?
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: The left does it all the time. And you can't
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: argue that.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I argue against some of the legislation, but
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I've never argued against their right to do it. You
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: can bring your values into the legislative arena, and religious
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: people can bring their values into the legislative arena.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: No coherent answer other than, I am right, you are wrong,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: and I will insist that I can bring my values
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: into the legislative arena, but you religious people cannot. That's bigotry, ironically. Well,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: it's certainly arrogant. Religious people have every right to try
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to bring their values. Religious people who believe that the
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: human fetus from conception is fully human have every right
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: to argue that and to bring it into the legislative sphere.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And those who think that the human fetus is a
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: piece of tissue have every right to argue that in
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: the legislative sphere. The irony in that, which is not
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: really germane specifically to my talk, is the irony on
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: the abortion issue, really ironic, and it was mentioned just
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: recently by some of the leading activists in NARAL, the
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: National Abortion Rights Organization, that there has been a real,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: not subtle, gradual, but big movement to recognizing that the
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: fetus may in fact not just be tissue. And the
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: reason has nothing to do or almost nothing to do
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: with religious advocacy. It has to do entirely with science. Science, ironically,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: has been the reason that people now take the fetus seriously.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: With sonograms and heartbeats and pictures. Oh, let's see, what
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: exactly am I destroying? Oh, it really isn't a piece
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: of tissue, is it? It's the very, very, very, very little, little,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: little baby. At least that's what the pictures show. What
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: you believe the worth of a human fetus is, I'm
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: not here to argue. I'm here to argue that people
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: who believe that it is a human life have every
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: right to argue it and not be called religious fascists
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: or that they are breaking down the separation of church
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: and state. What they're doing is they're bringing their values
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: about the human fetus into the public sphere. The public
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: is totally free to reject it. But it should not
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: be decided by judges. It should be decided by the
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: American people. It's too large a moral question.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. Now,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Everyone who passes a law, everyone who passes a law
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: is legislating morality. That's what laws are. The legislation of morality. Now,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: not everything we think is wrong, even religious people want legislated.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I'm sure they exist, but I've never heard from, gotten
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: an email from, or spoke to any religious person who
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: would like to see all adulterers put in prison. If
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: for no other reason, then there would be very few people.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Outside of prison, and it would present a challenge to
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: society's functioning. That was just dark humor, folks, and it
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: should just be left there. But really, obviously, people are,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: and by the way, this is a challenge that I
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: pose to people on the right often, where I say,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: you speak about pro-choice as necessarily being pro the action,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: but you're pro-choice on adultery.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Every religious person I know, evangelical, Orthodox, Jew, whatever, is
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: pro-choice on adultery. That doesn't make them pro-adultery.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Everyone I know is anti adultery and pro choice on it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: You are free to choose whether to be an adulterer.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: I will not criminalize that activity. That's what that means.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: So there are challenges all around here. And as I said,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of clarity. And people on the
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: right have to be clear. People on the left have
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: to be clear. As it happens, most pro-choice rhetoric does
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: in fact dismiss abortion as purely a health procedure.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: They see no moral issue in it.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Whereas pro-choice on adultery, almost everybody sees a moral problem
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: with adultery. I have almost never met anybody who would
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: agree to this. We shouldn't criminalize abortion, but by golly,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: the vast majority.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Of abortions are not moral acts. They are, in fact,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: selfish acts. I don't want to be pregnant. I don't
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: want to carry the term. There is no health problem.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: I just don't want to carry the term. That's selfish.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that we should ban it. I'm not
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: talking about that now. I'm talking about being morally clear.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: What bothers me about pro-choice people is not so much
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: their position on criminalization or legality. It's their position on
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: the act of abortion. They can't even say.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Most are immoral.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: That's what blows my mind. Taking whatever it is, unless
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: you truly believe that it has no worth whatsoever, it's
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: still an issue. You still have to answer the question.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: I interviewed the head of the People for the Ethical
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Treatment of Animals many years ago, Ingrid Newkirk, and she
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: was talking about the rights that she feels cockroaches have.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying this to make you laugh, because
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: that's their position. All animals have infinite worth. I said,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: even cockroach? Yes, even a cockroach. So I said, I'm
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: just curious, and it just occurred to me at that moment,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: what's your position on abortion?
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: She said, I have none. So I said, in other words.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: That means that the PETA position and your position is
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: that the cockroach is of greater worth than a human fetus.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure that that betokens or that represents a
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: particularly elevated society. when you can take a moral position
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: on behalf of cockroaches, but not on human fetus. And
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: those of you who don't like what you're hearing want
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: to dismiss what.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: I'm saying as silly. There's not a silly shred to
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: what I just said.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: You just don't want to face the fact that cockroaches
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: do have a much more elevated status in serious segments,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: namely graduate school educated Americans, than the human fetus. This
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: is problematic. But whatever your position, I push no position.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I have only pushed the position, that's all I've been
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: invited to talk about, that's all I will. I am
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: pushing the position that religious Americans have every right and
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: even a duty to try to see the country reflect
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: their values, if they wish to, as in the past.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: In the past, it was a value of most Americans
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: to shut down the society on Sundays. just as Jerusalem
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: is shut down on Saturdays. So they passed ordinances called
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: blue laws and shops were closed and it was a
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: quiet world on a Sunday. Gradually in America they opened
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: and that's what happened. There are very few people calling
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: for a reinstatement of those laws. Certain religious parts of
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: America do have them and they reflect their society.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: That's fine. That's fine.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Let different strokes for different folks. As a federalist, I
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: believe that you have to have almost different guidelines in
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: different states.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: It's a good thing. Let there be competing value systems.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: See which works, which produces finer people, kinder people, more
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: charitable people, and so on.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: That's fine with me.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: So that's the story with regard to, gee, what do religious,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: what are all these religious people doing in politics? The
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: answer is the exact same thing secular people are doing,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: and they have the exact same right to do so.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: It violates nothing, nothing constitutionally, either in spirit or in letter.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: Two other questions that I want to deal with are
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: the issue of theology is one of them, I'd like
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: to offer you a revelation.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Now, I don't mean from God. I don't claim that.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I would like one. I agree with Woody Allen on this.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: If God would only sneeze in my presence, I would
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: really be relieved. But so be it. No, this revelation
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: was just something reason and experience gave to me. And
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: this is something that I address to all of you,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Christian and Jew alike, and secular for that matter. It's
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: a little shocking when you hear it, especially if you're religious,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: this will be a little shocking to you. It was
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: shocking for me to realize this. I have found very,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: very little correlation, usually none, between theology and And values.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: The reason that I say this is because early on
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: in my career, I was given a blessing. I was
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: the moderator of a program with a priest, rabbi, minister,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: guests each week for 10 years.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I did 500 shows, 1,000 hours.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: With different priests, different rabbis, different ministers, and representatives of
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: every religion in the world, with one or.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Two rare, rare, somewhat obscure exceptions.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: And after about two years, it occurred to me that
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: when the rabbi, priest, and minister would show up, I
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: would not know in advance whom I would agree with
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: on any social issue. You would think, since I shared
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: the theology of the rabbi as a believing Jew, and
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: that I didn't share the theology of Christians, I don't
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: believe in a trinity or whatever else goes into Christological theology,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: by golly, I would agree with the rabbi just about
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: every time, and I would disagree with the Christians on
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: major issues just about every time. And it turned out
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that I agreed with the Christians at least as much
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: as I agreed with the Jews. And so I had
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: to figure out what's going on here. And I came
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: to this very simple conclusion. Theology and values have little relationship.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I'll talk within, I'll give you a Christian example. The
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Christians who are in the National Council of Churches leadership
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: believe in the Trinity faith. believe that Jesus Christ is
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the Son of God, believe that one must believe in Christ,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: or maybe they believe that others can be saved, but
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: that he had died for humanity's sins and certainly for
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: their sins. In other words, shares basic Trinitarian doctrine with
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: more Orthodox Christians, small o. Yet, the National Council of
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Churches leadership has nothing in common with with evangelical Christians
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: as a general rule. Certainly the evangelical Christian leadership.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Nothing.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: They disagree on every fundamental social moral question that I
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: can think of. But they have very, very similar theologies.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: In fact, let's cross lines. The average Reform rabbi and
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: many conservative rabbis, in other words, non-Orthodox rabbis, will share
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: more in terms of many social values with liberal Christians
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: who believe in Christ than with Orthodox Jews who don't.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: And vice versa, by the way, vice versa. Many Orthodox
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Jews will share more with evangelical Christians on values issues
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: than they will with non-Orthodox Jews.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Theology doesn't matter. This is unbelievably.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Now, theology doesn't matter needs to be slightly amended. I
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: am talking about the Judeo-Christian religious expressions in America. Surely,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: if you believe that God grants you 72 virgins if
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: you blow up infidels, clearly theology matters in that case.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Okay? I am very aware of that. I am talking
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: about the case of the United States of America. There
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: are other theologies which will lead to different value systems.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I can accept that. But not in America. It doesn't
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: work that way. And that is why I gear this
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: as well to evangelicals in particular who have a very
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: big problem with a Mormon candidate for president of the
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: United States.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Jews have zero issue with a Mormon candidate. Zero. Zero.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: They would have an issue perhaps with an Orthodox Jewish candidate.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: But LDS, not an issue, not an issue. Now, so
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: let me address evangelicals on this. And explain to the
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Jews here how evangelicals see Mormons. Remember I said I understand,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I understand Jews' fear about overt Christianity. I understand conservatives'
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: fear of a John McCain. I understand evangelicals' concern with Mormons.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: Let me explain it.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: For Jews who dismiss evangelical concern with Mormons, I have
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: a Jewish analogy for all Jews here, whether you are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Hasidic,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: or Secular.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: And that is this.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Imagine a candidate for President of the United States in
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: either party who is a Jew for Jesus.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: You would likely have a problem. If you were a
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Democrat and he was liberal down the line, you would
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: have a problem.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: If you were a Republican and he was conservative down
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: the line, you would have a problem. Meaning that Jews
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: too can relate to the idea of having problems with
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: a politician solely on the basis of theology.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: Even if you shared all values with him or her.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: And by the way, the analogy is very important. It
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: helps Jews understand Christians and Christians to better understand Jews.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: What troubles Jews about Jews for Jesus and what troubles
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: many Christians, or I should say many evangelicals specifically, about
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Mormons is the same exact thing. What troubles Jews about
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Jews for Jesus is not that there are Jews who
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: converted to Christianity. Jews may lament that because Jews always
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: worry about their numbers declining, but nevertheless, so what? If
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: somebody has chosen another religion in America, it's a free country, non-issue.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: It's that Jews for Jesus don't call themselves Christians, they
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: call themselves Jews, is what disturbs Jews.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: Entirely.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: What disturbs evangelicals about Mormons is not that they are Mormons.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: It's a non-issue.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Evangelicals would vote for people of other religions in a second.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: They do all the time.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: What bothers them is that they do not consider Mormonism
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: to be Christian, and Mormons call LDS, Latter-day Saints, Christianity.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: That's the name that bothers them. If Mormons tomorrow announce,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: and I am taking no position on this, I have
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of chutzpah, but in this regard.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: This.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Jew is not taking a position on whether Mormons are Christian.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: That is beyond my ken. That is your issue, not mine.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: But I still want to be honest in understanding the issues.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: If Mormons tomorrow announced, we retain.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: All our beliefs as they were with regard to Jesus
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Christ and with regard to the Book of Mormon and
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: with regard to the Bible and with regard.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: To Joseph Smith, and we have concluded... that.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: The truth is, from the traditional understanding of Christianity, we
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: are not Christian.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Evangelicals would have no issue.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: It's the issue of what they call themselves, just as
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: the issue for Jews is what Jews for Jesus call themselves,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: not what they believe.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: So I'm trying to explain to everybody here how the
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: other guy thinks.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: And it's important. Whatever you conclude, at least you will
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: have an understanding. But having said all of that, the
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: fact is, obviously theology doesn't matter, because evangelicals would have
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: agreed with Mitt Romney in the case wherein it came up,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: far more than they would agree with a lot of
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Christians running for office. So again, it's not theology that
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: is the author of values.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. Now,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: But I will tell you now to really make things
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: more complex. Here's a real epiphany.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: That I had.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: And it's an article I wrote for the Los Angeles
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Times about two, three years ago. So you can find
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: it on the Internet. It is not theology as such
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: that does shape the different views in America. There are
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: people of the same theology on the left, same theology
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: on the right, and same religion on the left, same
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: religion on the right. Here is the dividing line. Whether
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: or not they believe the Torah is divine.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Christians and Jews and Mormons who believe, and Catholics of course,
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: but I consider Catholics Christian, there I will take a position. Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Jews,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: who believe the Torah is divine, are far more likely
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: to have conservative social views, and everybody else, those who
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: don't believe it's divine, are far more likely to have
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: liberal social views. The question of the divinity of text is,
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: is the dividing line. If you believe men wrote the Torah,
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: you are more likely to have liberal views. If you
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: believe that it's divine.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Whatever that means, I don't, it doesn't even mean God
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: wrote every word necessarily, but God, God is the author
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: in the final analysis of the, of scripture. Then you
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: will have a different view. By the way, it makes
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: perfect sense. If men wrote it, why am I bound
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: to it? I'm a man, I'm a woman. I have
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: just as much say, in fact, probably more so than
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: somebody who lived in the Bronze Age. Why would I
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: be obligated to an idea made up by a man
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: living 3,000 years ago? But if you think God is
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: behind it, you have to rethink things. By the way,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: that's a classic example on the question of same-sex marriage.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: That's the real dividing line. Is there divine scripture or not?
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: If it's not divine scripture, then whatever the Bible might
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: say about homosexuality is just a product of its age.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: Period. End of issue.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: No more relevant than some scientific description from the ancient Greeks.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Who didn't know better.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: But if you believe that God thinks that heterosexuality is
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: the ideal, then you are stuck. with having to both
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: love the homosexual, and I mean that dead seriously, and
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: regard the homosexual as every bit in God's image as
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: anybody else, but at the same time not tamper with
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: the ideal of male-female bonding. So these things get very tricky,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: but that really does come down very often to be
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: the dividing line, and it is always something that Jews
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: are not used to hearing. Yeah, there are two groups
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: that believe that the Torah is divine. Religious Jews and
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: religious Christians. And it's a minority of Jews who think
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: that the Torah is divine. And it would be a
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: very different jury if they actually believed in the Torah
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: as much as Christians did. It's one of the ironies
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: of life, but life is filled with the ironic. So
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: that is why I would vote for anybody with any
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: theology or no theology for president or senator Trump. or mayor,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: or what have you. I would vote for an atheist.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I would vote for an atheist whose values I shared
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: and whose integrity I trusted much sooner than I would
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: for a religious Jew or Christian whose values I didn't share.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Because I understand that values will shape them, not necessarily
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: their belief system.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: Now, that's the way it is. I mean, I have
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: to look at the facts.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: The Wall Street Journal seems to be edited by fairly
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: secular people with whom I tend to share values over
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: and over and over. Not Jewish and not religious as
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: a general rule. And by golly, I love that editorial
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: page and its values.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't care.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to persuade you to like the editorial page.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: But I'm merely saying I have to realize... I have
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: to confront the fact that people who may not even
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: believe in any religion are... sharing values with me. That's
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: the way I vote, and it's a good way to vote.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: So I have made here, please understand, two cases.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: One is.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: that the religious have every much a right to bring
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: religion into politics as the secular do. And on the
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: other hand, I've also made the case that I would
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: vote for an atheist, even though I am so God-centered
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: in my own belief system.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: So I think, ironically, I tend to have the most
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: open attitude towards it. I'd vote for anybody, and anybody
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: can bring their values into the public sphere. Now, finally,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I want to address specifically Jews and Jewish issues in
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: this regard. What's good for Jews? Jews have every right
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: to ask what's good for Jews, given the fact that
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Jewish families were sent in the millions into gas chambers
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: and into crematoria one generation ago. Jews have a right
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: to ask what's good for Jews. It shouldn't be the
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: only question Jews ask. But a Jew who never asks it,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: I don't trust. Just as I don't trust Americans who
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: don't ask what's good for America. It's not the only
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: question an American should ask. But if you don't ask that,
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: you're such a citizen of the world that you don't
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: ask what's good for America, just what's good for humanity.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: I don't trust people who only love humanity. It's a
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: little too broad a group to love. I love 7
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: billion people.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Wow. Most people find loving their neighbor a real challenge.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: I saw this at Columbia University when I was a student,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: and the name, oh, we love humanity, love humanity, and
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of those kids treated humans awfully, awfully.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: I'm a fan of humans, not humanity anyway. I wrote
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: one of my pieces, and if you don't know, I
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: hope you can read me every week. It's free.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not selling you anything. Just go to PragerRadio.com. You'll
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: see my column each week. Anyway, just type in my
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: name in the search engine and you'll find my articles.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: And one of my columns a couple of years ago was,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Humanity Stinks, Humans Are Beautiful. And that sums up my view.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: When did humanity help anybody? Did humanity help the Jews
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: in the Holocaust? Did it help the Armenians in World
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: War I? Did it help the Rwandans who were slaughtered?
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Did it help the Cambodians who were slaughtered? Does it
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: help the North Koreans? Does it help in Sudan? Humanity
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: is morally worthless. There are some very good humans, but
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: I am no believer in humanity. Its track record stinks.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: So I don't trust anybody who doesn't ask what is
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: good for their particular group. And colleges try to produce
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: people who never ask what is good for their group.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Unless their group is anti-Western, then it's very important that
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: they ask what's good for their group. But a Jew
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: who asks what's good for Jews or an American who
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: asks what's good for Americans, and American Jews who ask
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: both what's good for America, what's good for Jews, oh, man,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: they're frightening.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: Well, they're not frightening. That's very healthy. So what's good
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: for Jews?
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: What's good for Jews is that America continue to be
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: what it has been since its founding, a religious nation.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Most Jews don't think this.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Most Jews think that the more secular America is, the
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: better it is for them. They identify secularism with health
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: and happiness for the Jewish people. This has been a
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: brainwash that Jews have received. in the proverbial mother's milk,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: it's just not accurate. Jews in secular Europe are doing lousy.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Jews in religious America are doing spectacularly well. The more
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: America becomes like Europe and abandons its religious foundations, the
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: worse it will be in the long run for Jews,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: and I believe for everybody else, but I'm addressing Jews
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: in particular now. That Jews work very hard from the
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Anti-Defamation League on up and on down to secularize this country,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: and that the ADL would announce, ironically, it calls itself
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: the Anti-Defamation League, and it defamed evangelicals, called the religious
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: right in America the greatest threat to America.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: It's unbelievable.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: I'm staggered as a Jew that a group representing me
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: to fight anti-Semitism would make that claim about the best
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: friends Jews have in the United States.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: And I will address that issue....
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: But Jews believe this because it's irrational, but they believe it.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: And when you start believing the irrational, you come up... See,
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: once you.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Believe a lie, you need a lot of lies to
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: defend your lie. It's like a kid, right?
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't break that vase. Oh, really? Well, where
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: were you then? Oh, I was at a friend's house. Oh, really?
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: Which friend? Oh, and you just.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: One lie leads to the next. So the lie that
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: they're not our best friends and they're really our enemies...
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Leads to many others. What are the other lies? Oh,
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: come on, Dennis. You know why evangelicals support us.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: I go, really? Tell me.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Because, and then they give one of two reasons. One
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: is they want to convert us. Okay, so I have
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: a couple of answers to they want to convert us. Yes,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: they do want to convert us.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: That is true.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: They want to convert everybody to Christ. That is the
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Christian mission, to bring humanity to believing in Jesus Christ
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: as their Lord and Savior.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, so fine. All right, there you go.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Now, that is, so then I have the two most
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: powerful words I almost ever have in a debate.
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: So what?
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, they would like to convert us. They would like
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: to convert Muslims. They would like to convert the New
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: York Times editorial board. They would like to convert Buddhists.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: They would like to convert atheists. They would like to
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: convert everybody. So I don't exactly know what is so
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: bad about that. And by the way, if the purpose,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: they go out on a limb to support Israel and
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: the Jews who number a grand total of 13 million,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: why don't they support the 1.2 billion Muslims if they
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: want to make converts? It's a pretty odd choice to make.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: Right? Your pickings are a lot slimmer with the Jews.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: So it has nothing to do with Christian support of
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Israel and the Jews.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: It's simply not related to that.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, they would like everybody to convert to Christianity, to
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Christ belief, yes. But that's not why they support Israel
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: and the Jews. There are Christians who would love to
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: see everybody Christian who don't support the Jews in Israel.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Then the other one is, well, they have apocalyptic views
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: that they will support Israel because then when all the
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Jews go to Israel, then there will be an apocalypse.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Israel will be destroyed and Jesus will come back. To
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: which I have my same two words. So what? First,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: that's not the reason. And I will tell the Jews
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: here what the reason is. And you can ask any
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Christian here whether I'm telling you the truth. But let's
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: say that were the reason.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: So what? I made a deal with the late Jerry Falwell.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: It is on videotape.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: This was done 30 years ago in Beverly Hills, California,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: in front of a very large gathering of Jews. And
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I said, Reverend Falwell, can we make the following deal
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: and shake on it? You and your followers support Israel
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: and the Jews until Jesus comes. And we in turn
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: promise to recognize him when he does.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Everybody likes that deal. Christians like that deal, and Jews
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: like that deal.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: You will support us until Jesus comes, and when he comes,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: we promise to recognize him. And, you know, it's said
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it's not tongue-in-cheek. So let us say,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: so I would say to a Jew, let's say your
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: cynical view of Christian support of Jews in Israel, let's
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: say your cynical view is correct.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: That's pretty stable support. The Jew who says.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: That is not exactly expecting an imminent second coming.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. Now,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: I told you it's all irrational fear, and based on
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: it come irrational ideas.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: I will tell Jews here very.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Quickly why Christians who support Israel do, because, as I
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: told you earlier, they have an idiosyncratic belief that the
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Torah is divine. This strikes Jews, this strikes many Jews
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: as an odd idiosyncrasy, You believe the Torah is divine?
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: How weird.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: But they do, and in that Torah, God says that he...
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: will bless those who bless the Jews and curse those
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: who curse the Jews. And I would like to tell
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: all of you, including all the Jews here who didn't
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: clap then, oh, I don't know why you didn't clap then.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's good to know, isn't it? It's a
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: little refreshing for a change.
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: But in any event, I would like you to know
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: that a rational, non-theological case can be made for that
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: being the case.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Those who curse the Jews do tend to be cursed,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: and those who bless the Jews do tend to be blessed.
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: And I'll give you two examples.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: The civilization that most blesses Jews is the United States
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: of America, and it's been the most blessed country since
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: its founding.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: It is also....
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: So we have on the one hand, the country that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: has most blessed Jews has been the most blessed for
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: hundreds of years. We have on the other hand, and
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: this is not meant as an anti-statement at all, just
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: a fact, one of the most benighted civilizations right now is...
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: is the Arab-slash-Muslim world, tragically. I'm not happy about it.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: I don't say this is a bigoted or anti-statement. In fact,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Arab intellectuals gave their own report to the UN. We
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: are behind the rest of the world in virtually every area.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Women's rights, intellectual development, literacy, health, you name it. Democracy,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, tolerance,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: we're behind everything. That world is centered on hatred of Israel.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: The world that curses Israel is not blessed today. Now,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: you could say God has nothing to do with it.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: That is perfectly your right to say. I'm not even
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: affirming for a fact that God does have anything to
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: do with it. I'm only pointing out to you.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: This, that the civilization that most blesses Jews is the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: most blessed, and the civilization that today most curses Jews
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: is not blessed. from any secular measurement. I will go further.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: The day that the Arab and Muslim worlds make peace
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: with the Jewish.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: State of Israel will be the beginning of a great,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: great rise in that civilization.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: I have no doubt about it.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Its Israel hatred-centered identity is utterly and totally destructive. to
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: the Arab and those parts of the Muslim world that
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: share it. And I will say on the converse, I
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: believe as I stand in front of the holiest scripture
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: that we have, the Torah on its parchment, this is
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: how strongly I am certain that the day that the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: United States abandoned Israel and the Jews would be the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: day you could date the beginning of the downfall of
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: the United States of America.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: So, my dear Jews who are present, and that is.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: I think, the majority of you, this is something to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: consider when you reflexively think that the secularizing of American
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: society is a blessing to Jews.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: I ask you to consider this.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Secular Europe, which is better for Jews, secular Europe or
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: religious America? You know, I remember, for example, that's a question,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: and now here is an anecdote. I was speaking to
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: the Jews of Raleigh, North Carolina, a number of years ago.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: It's considered Bible Belt. And they live overwhelmingly among religious Christians. Anyway,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I gave my talk, and many of them were talking
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: about how they fear, you know, any.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Anything religious in the schools, any mention of God in
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: the schools, and they fear any of this overt religiosity.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: So then I asked them a question. They didn't know
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: where I was coming from, so they gave me an
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: honest answer here. I said, raise your hand if you really,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: really like living in Raleigh and raising your children here,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: because you like the values, you like the people, and
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: so on.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: All the hands went up. I said, well... Have you
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: ever then thought maybe you chose to live among overwhelmingly
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: religious Christians and love their values? Maybe it isn't so
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: terrible if they thrive in the United States of America.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: You're thriving among them.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: And they had never lived with this cognitive dissonance, the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: thing they fear they have chosen to live among.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, these were not Manhattan Jews.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: These were Raleigh, North Carolina Jews, some of whom had
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: moved from Manhattan.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: Wisely. That was pure editorial.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: There was no objective truth to what I just said,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: just subjective claim. We are not better off when America
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: is secularized. And I give you one final example. What's
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: the most secular institution in America? The university. Is that
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: a great place for Jews? It's a terrible place for
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: the individual Jew studying.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: It's fine. I mean, it's a non-issue.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: But for Jews collectively, for Jewish identity, for the Jewish state,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: support for the Jewish state, It's the headquarters of the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: most vicious anti-Israel Nazi-like propaganda.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: Yes, Mr. Prager, my name is Chris. I am in
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: Gate City, Virginia. I learned of your name through the
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: terrible fate of Charlie Kirk. Um, I am a landscaper
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: and I listen to your podcast almost daily while mowing.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: Probably six months ago, I heard of your accident. I'm so,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: so happy that.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: Uh, you're still, still with us and still working. Uh,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: I am so, uh, so blessed by your, your podcast and, um,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: My daughter also gave me one of your Bibles, Genesis,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: and I'm working my way through that. It's really a
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: blessing to me.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: Mr.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: Prager, I love you.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: Talk to you later.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: Bye-bye.
• 1:06:06
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• 1:06:09
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• 1:06:15
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• 1:06:20
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• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and for your support. Now, back to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: I spoke to a woman, a Jewish professor. She was
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: head of the Jewish students or the advisor to the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Jewish student organization at San Francisco State.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: She was beaten up by some, I think it was leftist.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Students, but I don't want to make a charge that
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: I can't remember fully, or at least pro-Palestinian students, but
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think that they were Palestinian. And and so
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: I anyway, whatever it was, leftists had caused a sort
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: of riot against some of the Jewish students, those supporting Israel.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: And I had her on my show and I just said,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: I'm just curious, does it make you does that was
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: this anti Zionist, which is indistinguishable. Anti Zionism is a
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: form of anti Semitism. One is lying to oneself to
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: deny it. I love the Jews, but I want the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Jewish state destroyed is a phony statement. phony, phony, phony claim.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Why don't you think of somebody who said, I love Italians,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: but I'm working to destroy Italy.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: That's what Jews should think about someone who works to
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: destroy Israel, and that's what anti-Zionist means. You are against
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: the foundations of a Jewish state. So I said, I'm curious,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: given all this anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist rhetoric from the left, At
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: San Francisco State, do you rethink your commitment to the left?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: She said, no, no, but we have to fight that
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: aspect of the left. All I can tell you is
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: if Christians on the right were as anti-Israel as professors
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: on the left, you would never hear the end of
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: it from the Anti-Defamation League and from other Jewish organizations.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: It's really kept under wraps because Jews can't live with
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: the cognitive dissonance that Jew hatred comes from the left
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: in America, not from the right.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: And that's a fact, not an opinion. When Jews keep
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: looking to the right for antisemitism, I always think of
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: the following analogy or metaphor. Imagine your grandfather was killed
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: by a hit-and-run driver coming from the right. And so
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: you decided that whenever you cross the street, you will
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: only look at cars coming from the right. Most people
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: would consider you an idiot.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: That's what I think, to be perfectly honest, of Jews
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: who only look to the right to be hit by anti-Semites.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: We were hit by anti-Semites from the Nazis.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: They're on the right. And some other times from Christians
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: in Europe on the right. But.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: That's not the only place hit-and-run drivers come from. And today,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: they travel a lot safer on the right vis-a-vis Jews
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: than they do on the left. Maybe 100 years from
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: now or 10 years from now, it'll change. But right now,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: that's where the danger lies. And so, to end this,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: vis-a-vis the Jews specifically, I will do everything in my power,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm just one man, but whatever I can do,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: to alert Jews to the foolish belief that they have,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: that the more America is dereligionized, the better it is
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: for them. It's not good for America, and it's certainly
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: not good for the Jews. And that is the truth,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: and it has been the truth since before 1776. Thank
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: you very, very much.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow on timeless wisdom with dennis prager.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: The children of divorce to children of non-divorced there's something
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: a little bizarre about that comparison to the extent that
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: it's even makeable and that is you don't compare that's
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: not a that's not a it's not a scientific comparison
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: you have to compare and it can't be done you
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: have to compare children when their parents divorced children if
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: their parents had not divorced. But you can't do that
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: because nobody leads two lives. So there really is no
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: way to truly have a scientific test as to its effects. Now,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: am I saying that intact is not the ideal? Of
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: course intact is the ideal. A happy marriage, a good marriage,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: a loving home is the best. The best!
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: Of course it is.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 6: I had gotten divorced when my children were like six
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: and eight, and I told myself, of course, we were
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 6: at a very religious wedding in the beginning. We married Catholic.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 6: I said I'd never, ever divorce until, you know, if
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 6: I had to because of my kids, and unfortunately, I
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 6: was feeling very unfulfilled, and it was a difficult thing
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 6: for me to do, but when we divorced, when we decided...
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: We decided also to stay, you know, keep it very
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 6: amicable and keep the kids going. We went to all
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 6: their sports together. And my kids are both in college.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 6: One's a junior, one's a freshman. They're very successful. I
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 6: think they're very well-balanced, more so than myself, I think.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: And I think their growing up with us just being there,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 6: not necessarily together, was better for them. And I think
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 6: as adults now, they're seeing why it happened. And they agree.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 6: They love us both. We're very supportive. They do both things.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 6: They think they can see why it happened. And I
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 6: think that that's better for them also.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I agree with everything you've said. And it is an example.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: And I salute the two of you for going to
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: their sporting events together. And exactly right. You're both their parents.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: That doesn't change. And it should never change because of divorce.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: Join us tomorrow to hear more on Timeless Wisdom with
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis' lectures, courses,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: We want to take just a second to thank the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on
• 1:13:03
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• 1:13:07
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• 1:13:10
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