Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Building a wedding business empire with the 'eventpreneur' Toby Burns.

Transcript

Building a wedding business empire with the 'eventpreneur' Toby Burns. · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

0:00
Toby: And then you've got like the middle ones that are okay,
0:03
they're not quite pulling their way, you can see they're not as good.
0:07
And the problem is if you don't get rid of those middle ones, the
0:10
5, 6, 7s, the 8s, 9s and 10s will leave because they're still there.
0:15
And I think that's a really good way of putting it, that
0:17
your superstars will leave.
0:19
If you don't sort out the people that just don't pull their weight.
0:25
Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing
0:27
expert, speaker, and blogger.
0:29
And you're listening to the wedding pros who are ready to grow podcast.
0:33
I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
0:36
examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
0:40
If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
0:43
and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business, doing what you
0:47
love, then you're in the right place.
0:49
Let's get going with today's episode.
0:52
Today I'm chatting with Toby Burns, founder of The Silent Disco Company.
0:56
Originally a wedding DJ, Toby saw an opportunity and scaled
0:59
it into a thriving business.
1:01
Toby now calls himself The Eventpreneur, having founded multiple
1:04
businesses in the event space, both here in the UK and further afield.
1:08
I'm looking forward to finding out today more about how the wedding DJ
1:11
from Essex became the multi business owning entrepreneur he is today.
1:15
Toby, welcome to the podcast.
1:17
Toby: Thanks for having me.
1:18
Great to be on.
1:19
Becca: I'm really excited to talk to you because I've got so many questions.
1:23
I want to dive into your story.
1:25
And I love the fact that despite now being this big event preneur, you
1:28
started out in my favorite industry in the world, the wedding industry.
1:32
So take us right back to the start.
1:34
At one point you were a wedding DJ.
1:36
How did that happen?
1:37
Toby: So it actually goes even further beyond that.
1:41
I was actually a children's entertainer very, very early on.
1:44
So children's parties.
1:46
Didn't want to do that all day, every day.
1:48
I was doing like 10 parties a week, something like that.
1:51
And then I got into a very specific wedding market, which was the
1:56
Jewish and Arab wedding market.
2:00
And I think, I don't really know how I landed there.
2:03
You do one and then it's snowballs and you know, three people, you
2:06
know how it is in the industry.
2:08
It's the snowball effect, but I ended up in this specific market.
2:12
Along with sort of corporate DJ work where, you know, some of these events
2:19
are spending quarter of a million pound on a wedding, not with us.
2:22
Unfortunately, otherwise I'll be retired by now, but they would spend a lot on
2:27
the overall event, especially some of the Arab ones or four, 400, 600, 000 people.
2:34
I don't even think I know a thousand people that I could invite to a wedding,
2:38
but that was really how I landed.
2:40
In that space, but like I've said before on other podcasts, it's like, it's a
2:47
profitable job in a way being a DJ, like you're swapping time for money if
2:52
you're not out, you're not earning money.
2:54
So that's where we transitioned into Silent Disco and I knew that,
2:59
you know, that's our main business, but I knew that I could bring that.
3:04
into the events that I was already doing at the time where, you know, I make an
3:10
example of there's 50 kids at some of these weddings and then while people
3:14
are eating, they're causing havoc.
3:16
So the silent disco really was born about trying to entertain people when there
3:23
was the food service which could be an hour, hour and a half and people eat
3:27
in 10 minutes and then they're bored.
3:29
And that's where the idea really sort of stemmed from and then
3:33
it sort of grew beyond that.
3:34
Becca: It's interesting you got to that point quite early on in your career
3:37
because I work with a lot of people who, you know, want to become artists.
3:40
wedding businesses and I helped them grow their wedding business and
3:44
they're a florist, a cake maker, a DJ, and then they become successful
3:48
and they start getting work in.
3:49
And then they hit that point that you've just described perfectly
3:52
where they realize that there's actually no further they can go.
3:55
So they've got to make a choice.
3:56
Either they put their prices up or they start building a team around them.
4:01
Or they look at alternative income streams to bring in
4:04
different parts of the business.
4:05
So obviously that's the route you went down with starting
4:07
your Silent Disco company.
4:09
Like where did that initial idea come from?
4:12
Did you see it somewhere else first?
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Were you one of UK to bring it here?
4:16
Talk to me about that process.
4:17
Toby: Yeah, I mean, look, going back to your point, I think it's really
4:20
interesting that I was always very entrepreneurial and there's that
4:24
entrepreneurial flair and you are swapping time For money and I did all of those
4:30
things that you just mentioned that part of my price I went into something else.
4:33
But the problem with our industry, unless you you can create a team
4:38
around you, but certainly the in the event space when it's personal
4:43
weddings or celebrations, the client is booking you booking your expectees.
4:49
Your ideas, your vision, because you've been doing it years.
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So we had team members, but it's really hard because people still want
4:58
you to produce the event, you know, production ideas, stuff like that.
5:04
Yeah.
5:04
You can bring a team in to do the production, but it's very key person
5:08
driven, and I think that goes for anything like a florist, for example, like they
5:13
have that artistic flair to create.
5:16
Those beautiful bouquets you can bring in a team, but it's
5:18
not that person that's doing it.
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So I think it's really key person driven with regards to your question
5:25
in terms of silent disco I did see it.
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I was in america at the time and I saw it In a festival setting and they were like
5:34
really cheap chinese plastic Headphones, and I just thought again with the the
5:39
market that we were providing to in the wedding and corporate space I thought
5:44
One, we can just do this so much better.
5:47
We can create a premium headphone and we can do it in a model
5:51
that we don't have to go.
5:54
We can do it as, as that, but we could do it as a, a dry hire, like a
5:59
do it yourself, where if you've got another DJ or you have a band or you
6:03
want an after party at your wedding, you literally take it out of the box.
6:07
Connect it to your phone and you've got a silent disco.
6:10
So it had to be easily accessible for anybody to be able to
6:15
set it out simple and easy.
6:17
And that was the model we went down.
6:19
I think at the time there was a couple of companies in the UK.
6:22
Now there's about 30, but we're, we've got the highest star.
6:27
We've got a really big team.
6:28
We're not a small do it from home business.
6:32
We're sort of a much bigger animal in the market where We're doing
6:36
a hell of a lot of hires and a lot of them are to weddings.
6:41
I'm sure you're going to ask me a question later about why Silent Disco works so
6:46
well for weddings, so I won't go into that quite so soon, but that's where really the
6:51
idea came from and As I said, now it's, it's such a popular form of entertainment.
6:58
Becca: I love that you got the idea from America because I actually
7:01
quite often tell my clients to go and look at the American market.
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Go out to America if you can go to Wedding MBA, where I went last year
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and go and saturate yourself in the American market because so often things
7:12
go to America before they come here.
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And if you want to see So I'm going to talk a little bit about how you can
7:16
set yourself apart from the rest of the industry if you want to be the first
7:18
person with the newest photo booth or whatever the next trend is coming,
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actually, we can learn so much from looking outside of our UK market, which
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is typically further behind everyone else and find new concepts and then take
7:31
them bring them here and do them better, which is exactly what you've done.
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But most people don't have the balls or the thought process
7:38
to actually go ahead and do it.
7:40
So how did you take that?
7:41
I could do that in the UK.
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Better to actually bringing it to life.
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Toby: It's, you are so right about America.
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I mean, I religiously went every November to a specific trade
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show for new entertainment, and you've just gotta do it.
7:55
Okay.
7:55
You treat it as a holiday.
7:57
I mean, I used to go in November for four days.
8:00
I used to get there, do the show for three days, fly back, and one of
8:04
our businesses that we sold before COVID was like a virtual reality
8:08
simulators and, and that sort of thing.
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And that came from America because it all comes from there first.
8:15
Being honest, most of it gets made in China.
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So now we go straight, we do all the shows in China because you'll see
8:21
like weird and wonderful wacky ideas.
8:24
But what, when we saw it and we thought we could do it better, I had
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experience dealing with China already.
8:31
You know, we'd buy some DJ equipment from China and I, I, knew how that works
8:36
because it is like language barriers.
8:38
It's hard work dealing with China.
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Literally 90 percent of what we buy for our business, like even
8:45
down to like cable tires to tie up a box, everything we import.
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So I had quite a few meetings with factories in China.
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We had loads of samples and then we settled on this headphone.
9:00
And, and since then, as I mentioned, there's lots of other companies doing it.
9:04
Everyone sort of copies, you know, any great business people copy.
9:09
And I was, I was listening to the Airbnb owner the other day and he
9:13
was like, you know, Verbo VRBO came along and if it's a good business,
9:18
people will copy, but people want to go with the experts in the field.
9:22
So how we differentiated ourselves is, and I'm not going to go boring
9:27
technical stuff, but the internals of the headphones, I came from a
9:32
DJ background, I also studied sound technology and sound engineering.
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So the inside of the headphones are what's different.
9:40
They may look the same as everyone else's, but I think when you wear ours.
9:43
Listen, it had to be a quality because of the wedding market and
9:47
the corporate market I was DJing for.
9:50
And now quality is like, you know, one of our leading KPIs and vision
9:54
of the business is we have to be high quality, but an affordable price to.
9:59
You know, be in the marketplace.
10:01
Becca: Amazing.
10:02
So you basically took some knowledge you had and went
10:04
out there and actually did it.
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And I think that's the big thing that stops people is that
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they think, think of the idea.
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They might even have some of the knowledge and then they just don't do anything.
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So if you want to make something happen, you've got to take action.
10:15
You've got to step out of your comfort zone.
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And I'm sure there was a time when you're thinking, why am I buying
10:19
all these headphones from China?
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Is it, is this actually going to work?
10:22
Toby: Yeah.
10:22
I mean, I I've said it before.
10:24
My parents genuinely thought I was mad.
10:27
To buy I, I bought 200 headphones, saved up, you know, DJing
10:32
kids, parties, blah, blah.
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And I bought 200 headphones.
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It was about 10, 000 at the time to import that.
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And they literally thought I was bonkers.
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But what I think is really key and, and probably other people that listen to the
10:45
podcast is they're probably in the space.
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They're thinking about, you know, doing something else,
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an additional revenue stream.
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Well, what I did is I was like, right, I've got these weddings
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booked in, in two months time.
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Let's offer them silent disco now before, before they're even here.
11:03
Let's offer it now.
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And we could test the market before we even bought the headphones.
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So Before they even came in, we were fully booked for a month.
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And then I was like, okay, I think we're going to need a few more, more, more.
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And literally I was almost selling it to the clients that we had
11:19
already before we'd even got it.
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But like going to these shows, like it's, it's so low risk.
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Like I've been to a few, as I said, going to America every November.
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And there were years where I would go and not buy anything.
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I've had a holiday for four days.
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That's, you know, that's the way you treat it.
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I didn't always find something there, the new and upcoming thing,
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but it does give you ideas of like, Oh, I liked the look of that.
11:48
Maybe I could create something a bit different on that,
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you know, on that product.
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So it's not always guaranteed, but I think you've got to put yourself
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out there and go and see this stuff.
12:01
Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
12:01
And it separates you from the rest of your competition and it's better
12:05
to be the person that's doing it first than the person everyone
12:07
else in the UK is copying for sure.
12:09
So talk to me about use cases then.
12:11
So you said that Silent Discos work really well at weddings.
12:15
What are the use cases that people are using them?
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How are they being used at weddings?
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And do you sell directly to the client or do you work with other suppliers,
12:24
for example, DJs, and then get them to buy into what you do as well?
12:28
Toby: We work with literally everybody, whether that's event companies, production
12:34
companies, the client themselves.
12:36
And we, we use headphones for such a variety of, of uses.
12:40
Now, private parties, like you're having a birthday, everyone
12:43
has a birthday every year.
12:44
We love celebrating here in the UK.
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So birthdays and private parties are probably the most popular use, but
12:53
we've seen a trend really over the last two, three years of weddings.
13:00
Have grown tremendously in terms of use.
13:03
And for me, I've DJ'd quite a few weddings with Silent Disco.
13:07
And sometimes you go to these weddings, I've got a DJ, and you don't, someone
13:13
might not like the song that the DJ's playing, or it's not their cup of tea.
13:17
With Silent Disco, there's three different channels of music.
13:22
So your guests now have a choice.
13:24
Of what they want to listen to.
13:27
And it, the energy that it creates, it's just a completely
13:30
different atmosphere in the room.
13:33
One it's entertainment because people are like switching between
13:36
channels on the headphones and like, Oh, turn over to blue.
13:39
I love this song, but it gives people variety.
13:43
And people do like variety, you know, in life, if you went into a
13:47
shop and there was only one brand of something, you'd, you'd go mad.
13:50
People like to have choice.
13:53
So the headphones really give your guests choice at a party of like,
13:58
okay, I want to listen to 80s.
14:00
I don't like this song, switch over to the next one.
14:02
And I think that's, Like, that is the number one point, I think, aside from
14:09
that, hens, I mean, we do so many hen parties, so we've got some specific
14:14
packages where it's got like a bride and groom branded headphone, again, no
14:18
one else does that, so, if it's, we know it's a wedding, we do a bride and groom
14:22
headphone, that's specifically for them.
14:24
If it's hens and we're doing tons of these now every weekend that we have
14:29
like a bride to be and some funny dress up stuff that we put in the box as a
14:33
package just to make it a bit more fun.
14:37
I mean, we do conferences with the headphones where you've got different
14:40
languages, like it's so varied.
14:43
But the weddings and hens are super, super popular every single week.
14:48
Becca: I actually went to a hen party myself a few months ago
14:50
and they had a silent disco.
14:52
And on paper it was the weirdest thing because as soon as you take
14:55
your headphones off you're basically in a village hall in silence.
14:58
But it was so much fun and I think the music choice thing is massive
15:02
because they had a real variety in what we were listening to.
15:05
So some of us were listening to like musical theatre tunes which we
15:08
were going mad for and some people were listening to 80s music and some
15:11
people were listening to the rock.
15:12
You know, there was such a variety.
15:14
So, you know, I can see where there is definitely a market.
15:18
Oh, it was fun.
15:19
Toby: Rather than listening to one person's playlist that they've created.
15:24
And I think that's where the karaoke higher company was really
15:28
born from is we got asked like hen passes, love a karaoke party.
15:34
And that was quite a few years ago when we've developed that and now launched it.
15:39
as its own brand last year.
15:40
And we've like invested thousands of pounds into R and D to make
15:44
the best possible karaoke machine.
15:46
That's like super easy, but that was really born out of hemp
15:49
artists because they love singing.
15:51
And once they've got the headphones on as well, like no one can hear
15:54
their voice, like they love it.
15:56
Becca: I think my listeners will have already identified that I think your
15:59
business is basically just my perfect night out because I love karaoke, I love
16:03
cheesy music, and I love a disco, so I am definitely your target kind of customer.
16:08
Which brings me on to my next question actually, because I think one of the
16:11
things, having looked into what you do and looked at your website, is that
16:14
you've continued to evolve the business.
16:16
So you went from wedding DJ to To silent discos, but you
16:19
haven't stopped at silent discos.
16:20
As you just alluded to, you've now got karaoke, you've got
16:23
other parts of the business.
16:24
So how do you make sure that you're continuing to evolve, continuing to
16:27
grow and continuing to find new avenues?
16:30
Toby: I use one simple term to my team every single day, which is if you
16:35
don't innovate, you will evaporate.
16:38
And I think that's the easiest thing to say because if you're not innovating
16:42
somebody else's and then they're going to eventually take you over.
16:45
So I think that's why I make it a goal to go to China every single
16:50
year now and we're back out in April.
16:53
But I think like customer feedback, like what do they like?
16:57
What did they not like about it?
17:00
Like innovate with it.
17:01
Don't just go, this is my product.
17:02
This is what I do.
17:03
And that's it.
17:04
Take it or leave it.
17:05
We're continuously.
17:07
Improving every, every little part of what we do to make the overall
17:11
package like awesome for the customer.
17:14
So I think you have to innovate, otherwise you'll just get left behind.
17:18
So customer feedback is super important.
17:20
Like reviews we love, like if they didn't like something, like some business owners
17:24
get really like defensive and offended.
17:26
I'm like, okay, well let's actually work out what didn't work for you.
17:31
Okay.
17:31
It might be one in a hundred, but if there's a little
17:33
nugget in there that could.
17:36
Make the service like 10 times better.
17:38
Why not?
17:39
Why not explore that?
17:41
And I think that's where that differentiates us from everybody else.
17:46
And I say about my team every day, we innovate, like the
17:49
best ideas come from the team.
17:51
So cinema hire, for example, the cinema hire company is one of our others.
17:56
That was one of our guys, AP, who had been with us five years or so.
18:01
And we sort of looked at the idea and I left it to him.
18:04
I was like, let's try and create something.
18:06
With cinema that goes in a box that fits in our model.
18:10
That you at home could plug it in, in the garden, it inflates, you
18:14
plug in a projector and you can have a movie night in the garden.
18:18
And that idea is probably we've been doing that about five years now.
18:22
And that's really what kept us alive in COVID because people couldn't do
18:26
anything in COVID apart from like have a home movie night with your
18:30
with your children, your family in the garden, everything had to be outside.
18:35
So again, that was innovation from our team.
18:39
And now is a standalone brand that's super successful.
18:43
So you've got to innovate.
18:45
Simple.
18:46
Becca: So you've got all these different avenues, but what draws them all together
18:49
and the part that I think is super clever is that you're not going to any
18:53
of these events, like you're actually just in a warehouse or in your offices,
18:57
sending out this equipment to people, and then they're doing the events.
19:01
So you're not limited to how many events you can build.
19:03
be at over a weekend or where they are geographically
19:06
because it's all done by post.
19:07
Is that right?
19:08
Toby: Yeah.
19:08
And that's the thing.
19:09
I mean, I am out on Sunday DJing, which I still do because I love it.
19:14
I don't need to do it, but I genuinely still love going out
19:18
and this client's had me before.
19:20
So once I'm there Sunday, I can't be anywhere else.
19:23
And I would say 90 percent of what we do is, is dry hire.
19:27
And 10%, we do have an array of DJs that work for us in house.
19:33
We may have a wedding that, you know, wants a staff member there to hand out
19:38
the head, maybe not a DJ, but just the staff member to hand out and collecting
19:41
the headphones, help any of their guests.
19:43
So we do.
19:44
All of that, but I'd say 90 percent fits into that model and everything
19:49
that we create or innovate in terms of products has to fit into that
19:54
model of your nan can set it up.
19:57
It's got to be that simple that it's plug in and play.
20:02
And that's why the karaoke.
20:03
Going back to that took us 18 months to create and we went through so many samples
20:08
off the money I don't say wasted because it was R& D to find the perfect one But
20:14
we spent a lot of money on samples and now we've created this one that literally
20:18
you turn it on you connect it to your Wi Fi everyone knows how to do that pretty
20:22
much but we give simple instructions and that's it You connect it to Wi Fi and
20:27
you've got like 70 to 100, 000 songs, hit play, lyrics come up on the screen,
20:33
like so simple, out of a box, set it up in 30 seconds, and that's the model
20:39
that we have, which has allowed us to scale to where we are today, and that was
20:44
always the important thing, that scale, a business that works with a team without
20:49
a You know, if we had to staff all of them, I'd need 150 staff every weekend.
20:54
And that just, oh, I think I'd jump off a cliff at that point.
20:57
No, team are great, but that's a lot of staff to be, you know,
21:01
managing, driving across the country.
21:03
We can ship anywhere.
21:05
across the UK on a next day service with our courier.
21:08
We ship it on a Thursday.
21:10
You get it on a Friday and then on Monday it gets collected again.
21:13
So you've got it all weekend to enjoy.
21:17
And our team now are like, what about this?
21:20
What about this?
21:20
And a lot of the ideas don't fit into the model.
21:24
Of in a box and like something we explored years ago was like, can
21:28
we do bouncy castles in a box, you know, like, cause people have bounced
21:33
castles at home, but it's really heavy.
21:38
They got to set them up, there's insurance, but then there's some other
21:41
inflatables that we do now do in a box because it fits into the model.
21:47
And that's just how we operate our businesses, making sure that it
21:52
fits into that model of what we love and know how to do perfectly.
21:57
Becca: Yeah.
21:57
And it's so simple and that's what consumers are looking for.
21:59
I talk about it to my clients all the time.
22:01
We overcomplicate things.
22:02
We make things really difficult for people, but actually when it's just
22:06
one simple price, one simple system, and it's easy for them to do, they're
22:09
much more likely to purchase and go ahead and give great feedback as well.
22:13
Now we've talked a lot about your successes, but you know,
22:15
All entrepreneurs, all of us have struggles along the way as well.
22:18
So I would love to just dive into that.
22:20
As you look back over your career so far, have there been any points
22:24
that have been really difficult?
22:25
Have there been any things that are, have been a real struggle,
22:27
but that you've learned from?
22:29
Toby: No, I think every listener will relate to, I would say the biggest
22:34
challenge of ours, which was COVID.
22:37
And I think everyone can relate to it.
22:39
And I think the events industry as a whole Got left behind by the government.
22:44
We didn't get we didn't come under hospitality and leisure and get the
22:48
VAT reduction We didn't get some of the other help because again, we're not
22:52
hospitality and leisure in my opinion I think we are hospitality and leisure
22:57
We're providing to hospitality and leisure venues But we really got left behind and
23:02
that was a big learning curve of that was really tough Mentally, like I have
23:07
a team I have you know livelihoods that I'm sort of responsible for and on a
23:13
mental health basis, that was a really, really trickle, tricky time for me.
23:17
I mean, like if it happened again now, it's like, it was the
23:20
unknown at the time and you didn't know when it was going to end.
23:24
You didn't know how to overcome it.
23:26
And you just had to pivot and do what you do, but that was so hard, like
23:31
literally the week before I knew it was coming because you're looking at
23:34
what's happening around the world and every single call, hundreds of calls
23:38
a day, cancellation, cancellation, postponement, postponement, and that
23:42
was really hard as a business owner who was like, built up something over at the
23:48
time, seven years for it, just to like a click of a hand, just be gone overnight.
23:54
And I talked about at the beginning of the podcast, that snowball
23:57
effect, especially with DJ work.
23:59
And at that point, like I was still DJing probably two, three
24:03
times a month since COVID.
24:05
I now actually only do one or two a month.
24:07
And I'm happy with that because it gives, I think it gave
24:09
everyone a perspective on life.
24:11
What's important.
24:12
I have a child now.
24:14
I don't want to be out every weekend.
24:16
But that really put into like perspective of the snowball effect
24:21
that it had been snowballing and snowballing for seven years.
24:25
And then everyone wanted to do a wedding on zoom or something, which I wasn't
24:29
really keen on because I'm all about in person, none of our team work from home.
24:34
We're, we're a very in person company.
24:36
And I think that snowball effect completely just like stopped in COVID.
24:41
And now you've a lot of these, especially other DJs and bands
24:45
have had to start again where.
24:47
They do a job, four people see them, those four people book them and
24:50
then the snowball effect starts.
24:52
So I think that, you know, is really the biggest challenge I've had to deal with.
24:59
And I think the second challenge, which again, I'm sure lots of business owners
25:04
that listen to this, is, is staff and your team, where You know, whether
25:10
they think, Oh, I can go and do this on my own and take a client, which
25:14
are what, which will always happen in our industry, like especially DJs
25:19
and I'll, I'll do a few jobs for you.
25:21
And then they'll just go out and do their own.
25:24
But I think staff is one of the biggest challenges that I'm continuously learning
25:29
from that just when you think you've got it perfect with the perfect team, one
25:33
person wants to go traveling, like your top person, or it's a real challenge.
25:38
And recruitment in the last two years, or at least since COVID where
25:42
everyone wants hybrid, it's really difficult to get great people.
25:47
Takes a really long time.
25:48
And one of my terminology is like higher, slow, fire, fast.
25:53
Like if you can't change the people change the people if they're no
25:57
good, we try and get rid of them.
25:59
But now we hire so slowly to make sure they're the right person.
26:04
And again, once you think you've got it perfect, something happens or
26:08
someone wants to another challenge.
26:11
So we're trying to challenge our team as well.
26:13
Nobody wants to do the same year in school like you do year eight.
26:17
Oh, okay.
26:18
You're going to do year eight again and again and again.
26:20
People want a challenge.
26:22
Yeah.
26:23
So for my team, I try and give them a challenge in that way, that not
26:27
every year is the same, whether it's new responsibilities, because
26:30
people like to be challenged.
26:33
But staff, that is the hardest thing, like now we're, we've grown beyond.
26:38
I think once you get past 10 staff, like everyone's loving life, you
26:43
go out for dinner, everybody's friends, you split the bill evenly.
26:48
Once you get to 15 staff, there's like these little clicks in the office or
26:52
you go out for dinner and one person goes, well, I didn't have a starter
26:56
or I didn't have to, and it changes and that I know they're silly things,
27:02
but it does change the culture.
27:05
So my job.
27:07
and I'm failing in my job if I don't do it is to keep the culture
27:10
and to keep everyone as one.
27:12
It's a challenge, but I think we do it really well.
27:15
Becca: Yeah, it's so true.
27:16
So when you talk about hiring slow, what does that look like for you?
27:18
What sort of things are you looking for?
27:20
Because I know there are listeners who own venues or work at venues who typically
27:24
do have this problem with employment and retention and finding the right people.
27:28
So what are the things you're looking for in that process?
27:31
Toby: It's, when I say slow, we really go slow on senior management.
27:37
So if they're a warehouse manager, a social media manager, anyone sort
27:41
of at a senior level, we tend to do a four step interview process.
27:46
That's what I like to do.
27:48
And that's, we'll interview them first with one of our team, whether that's
27:52
my assistant or, I mean, we're not no HR department or anything, but
27:56
we'll get someone to interview them.
27:59
In the second interview, someone else will interview them.
28:02
But the first person will sit in because the first person might
28:06
go, Oh, they were brilliant.
28:07
And then when the second person interviews them and they're sort of, Oh, you
28:11
know, I asked that question a little bit different actually, but they've
28:14
answered it a completely different way.
28:16
Where I thought they were really good.
28:17
So I think that's really interesting.
28:20
The third interview, I will meet with them generally.
28:24
And on the fourth interview, I will ask them to do a presentation,
28:28
which some people don't like.
28:30
And I think doing this four step interview, it's a deselection
28:34
process rather than going.
28:35
That's the one I want.
28:36
Let's get them back in.
28:37
I want them to deselect us of like, okay, maybe that's not for me sharing
28:43
that because I'll share the vision of the company on that fourth one.
28:47
I will get them to present like a social media marketing.
28:50
This is our vision.
28:51
This is what we want to do.
28:53
And then they will present to me what their battle plan is to get there.
28:58
So that's what I would do for.
29:00
Senior management, but it's hard and it's a skill that takes years to master.
29:04
But I think if you start with that four step basic process, it's really helpful.
29:09
The other stuff, look, we use some of the online CV library indeed,
29:15
but I feel You know, it's really, really difficult to find great people
29:21
that want to be with you long term.
29:23
I always ask questions like, what's your dream job?
29:26
I want to be a chef.
29:27
I'm like, well, why are you, why are you interviewing for this?
29:29
I don't understand.
29:31
And you'd be surprised how many of them we get.
29:34
But I think take your time and do at least, even on the, on the less
29:39
senior roles, I say three interviews.
29:42
Get someone in your team to interview them.
29:44
Get another person of your team to interview them with the
29:47
first person sitting in, and then you interview them last.
29:51
Because by that point you've got two people's opinion.
29:54
They've spoken about it.
29:56
Are they right the right person for the role and they need to be long term
29:59
employees and then I will interview them and make that final decision with my
30:03
senior team of where they're fitting into and I've sold this Story before I know
30:09
we're tight on time I categorize staff on a scale of one to ten and in that you've
30:17
got one twos and threes Maybe even fours, one, two, three, fours, I call them.
30:22
And these are the people that are not very good at the job.
30:25
You don't really want them there.
30:27
They don't really want to be there.
30:29
You're having a conversation.
30:30
They'll be happier in a different row when they leave.
30:34
You've got the eights, nines, and tens, which is what we aim to get.
30:38
Higher, slow.
30:38
You want eight, nines, and tens who love the business.
30:41
You love them.
30:42
They're hard workers.
30:43
They're, they're superstars of your business.
30:46
And then you've got like the middle ones that are okay.
30:50
They're not quite pulling their way.
30:52
You know, you can see they're not as good.
30:56
And the problem is if you don't get rid of those middle ones, the six, seven,
31:00
the five, six, sevens, if you don't get rid of them, the eights, nines, and tens
31:05
will leave because they're still there.
31:08
And I think that's a really good way of putting it that
31:11
your superstars will leave.
31:13
If you don't sort out the people that just, you know, don't pull their weight.
31:17
And it's a really tricky balance.
31:20
I feel I'm a recruiter as well as a director.
31:23
I feel that's my main role to recruit.
31:25
amazing people for the business.
31:27
And it's, it's tough.
31:29
It's really, really tough.
31:31
Becca: Yeah.
31:31
Well, a business lives or dies on the people that you have in the team.
31:34
When you get to a certain point, I think that's a really helpful analogy.
31:36
And I can imagine right now, there's probably some venue owners sitting
31:39
at home, categorizing their staff members, format and thinking, how
31:44
on earth am I going to get these people out of my business and start
31:47
focusing on the eight nines and tens.
31:49
But I think you've, you've shared some really helpful advice.
31:51
And the thing is, it sounds like a long process to hire someone, but I'm sure
31:55
you know and I definitely know that when you hire the wrong person and you take
31:59
the time to train them and then you've got to take the time to try and get them
32:01
out the business, that takes a whole lot longer than doing the four step interview
32:05
and making sure you get the right person.
32:07
Toby: It takes time.
32:08
It really, and we've literally, we just this morning given an offer of
32:13
employment for a new salesperson.
32:15
And it doesn't take that long.
32:16
We've done that four step interview.
32:18
They've been very, that, you know, they really want the job as well.
32:21
But we've done it with about three candidates, but we've done that
32:25
process within within two weeks from first interview to presentation
32:29
to offering the job this morning.
32:31
So it's not like it's a three month process, but I think the struggle we have
32:36
and I think so many owners will do it is Well, how am I going to get someone else?
32:42
I've got to go through the training.
32:43
And sometimes it's like, Oh, it's better off like the devil.
32:47
I know than the devil.
32:47
I don't.
32:48
And I've been guilty of this is like, I don't want the headache.
32:52
Let's just put up with it.
32:54
Let's get through the summer and then we'll deal with it in
32:56
September, but you've got to do it.
32:58
And I've only just got good at this is that if you don't, the
33:02
others will leave before that.
33:04
Cause I would have had enough.
33:06
And that's why I said hire so fire fast.
33:08
Cause if they're not right, yes, it's annoying.
33:10
And I had this only a few months ago where like, you're putting it off.
33:14
Maybe they'll change.
33:16
We'll have a few meetings, maybe they'll get better, but.
33:19
It doesn't normally happen.
33:21
If I'm honest with you, it just doesn't happen.
33:23
Becca: No, it's a tough old world out there.
33:25
It's been so interesting to talk to you, Toby.
33:27
Thank you so much for sharing.
33:29
You've given us so many different insights.
33:30
It's been fascinating to hear more about your business.
33:33
I always end the podcast with the same question, which I'm going to
33:36
pose to you now, which is this.
33:37
What's one thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your businesses?
33:41
Toby: Oh, I wish.
33:43
I knew how tough it was in terms of the mental strain as a business
33:48
owner, whether I would have had like a mentor or a coach, because it's a very
33:53
lonely place being a business owner.
33:56
You've got responsibilities.
33:58
You're thinking on a Friday, am I going to be able to make payroll Monday?
34:02
You know, a partner, a family member doesn't understand it unless they are
34:08
an entrepreneur or a business owner.
34:10
And I think I wish I knew that because I would have asked for more
34:13
advice from other business owners.
34:15
And I always say that if you are a business owner, it's a lonely place.
34:18
It's tough.
34:19
Speak to other business owners, not your accountant, not a family member
34:24
who hasn't got to speak to another.
34:26
Business owner that's been there, done it, got the metaphorical t shirt
34:30
because they've been through the same struggle as you're going through.
34:33
And I think that would really help you're not on your own in that respect.
34:38
Becca: Totally, totally agree.
34:39
Finding peers that you can talk to or who understand that.
34:43
Things that your family or partner really don't understand or want to talk to you
34:47
about is so, so vital to your own mental health and the success of your business.
34:51
Toby, it's been such a pleasure.
34:52
If people want to find out more about you, about your businesses, about
34:55
what you're all about, where's the best place for them to find you?
34:58
Toby: So if you want to see a little bit of behind the scenes, a day in
35:01
the life of what we do behind our businesses, check out the eventrepreneur
35:06
on YouTube or Toby Burns and if not check out the silent disco company.
35:10
co.
35:10
uk.
35:11
Bye.
35:11
It's got links to all of our other sister brands.
35:14
So go there, check out our socials and if you need a silent
35:17
disco, you know where to go.
35:19
Becca: Amazing.
35:19
I will make sure I put all of the links in the show notes and I am going to
35:23
go back to your website and look into that karaoke hire because I feel like
35:26
there's a party happening at my house soon, which involves a karaoke machine.
35:30
Although my neighbors might not like it, so maybe I'll need to hire a hall.
35:33
But yeah, I love the look of the karaoke machine.
35:35
I can imagine that I'll be singing some songs on that very soon.
35:39
Toby, it's been so lovely.
35:41
Thank you for your time.
35:42
Toby: Thank you.
35:43
Becca: Wasn't that a fascinating conversation?
35:46
I always love diving into people's history, finding out where they've come
35:49
from and where they've got to and all of the steps it takes along the way.
35:53
If you're listening to this and you're thinking, yeah, it's time for
35:56
me to innovate and to do something different with my business, learn
35:59
from what we've talked about today.
36:01
Innovate, think outside of the box, and ultimately you've just got
36:05
to take action and go and do it.
36:07
I'll see you next time.