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May officially signs, JoJo Romero interest, most untouchable Cardinal · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Kyle Gibson Lance Lynn with us as well.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We understand that Kyle's Internet is a little spotty. We're
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: going to try to battle through it. Gentlemen, good to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: see you. The first thing is there is a little
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: bit of Cardinal news, kind of the continuation or the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: finalization of something that we knew was coming. But the
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Cardinals have come to terms with Dustin May the contract
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: details of release. He passed his physical, which was the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: last remaining obstacle. I guess with the holiday season they
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: had to get schedules in sync, and Dustin May is
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: now a Cardinal details of the contract twelve point five
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: million dollars for the first year with it's the twenty
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: million dollar option twenty twenty seven now memory serves me, gentlemen.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: The uh, the bulk of the panel, I think everyone
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: agreed it was a very good signing. The numbers, I
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: don't think they're totally surprising, But Kyle will just get
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: your take on twelve point five Is that kind of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: what you were thinking for May?
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: I think probably going rate at this point or a
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: quality starter that you think you're going to get thirty
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: starts and one hundred and sixty innings out of, and
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: you know that's the hope, you know. I think you
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: look back just a couple of years ago, probably had
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: similar talks to what Lance and I had with them,
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: you know, pretty similar numbers, and you know, you get
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: a guy that with that kind of pedigrade as an
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: asked stuff, I think it's a good deal.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: How about you, Lance, did you expect that that number
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: right in the ballpark of what you were thinking?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just because age, the age itself and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the and the stuff kind of puts you over that
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: ten mark. So it was kind of going to see
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: where was it going to land between kind of ten
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: and fifteen. So it landed right in the middle. So
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: that makes sense for both sides. I don't know what
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: the mutual option buy out and all that looks like,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: but usually mutual options aren't picked up by one side,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: so it's pretty much most likely a one year deal.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: And you know where the Cardinals are at, they needed
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: someone that they could throw up at the top. That's
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: you know, been around done some things played in good
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: organizations to help the help the group out as a whole.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: But you also look at last year he got traded
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: for I think a first round draft pick no more
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: than like two years ago. So where the money's at
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that. Uh, if it gets the mid
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: season point and you know he's throwing the ball uh decently,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: well he's gonna he's gonna ness you a good return
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: if the Cardinals are not in it. So all in all,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: you know, that's a good deal for both sides.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and for and for him.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Lancy's kind of betting on himself, right, I mean, there
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: wasn't a lot probably of better operas out there he
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: would have grabbed it. This guy has potential when he's healthy,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: he is a really really good pitcher. Right, So he's
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: been on himself. Has a good season, see where it
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: lands him.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're looking at a guy that's under
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: thirty years old and that's had this most innings he's
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: ever thrown last year, and you would expect him to
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: be able to maybe jump to one sixty this year.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And if he does that, then he's going to be
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: twenty nine years old looking for a four or five
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: year deal. So in his in his camp, it's a
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: no brainer to do a one year deal, but it
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: also gives him a little bit of you know, I
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: guess the option gives him a little bit of, you know,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: something to fall back on. But like I said, most
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: options don't don't get picked up on both sides. So
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a gives him a chance to make
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: some money, go establish himself even more healthy, can you know?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Full season one hundred and sixty innings and then next
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: thing you know, you're twenty nine years old looking for
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: a four or five year deal, going into your mid
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: thirties and probably looking for twenty plus, especially with you know,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: some of the stuff you've seen this year with you know,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Merle Kelly getting twenty a year at thirty seven years
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: old without the electric stuff that you know Dustin has.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: So it's a no doubt or hey, let's see what
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I can do for one year and get more. Because
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: if it was a multi year deal, k I think
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: would have been Kyle you probably guess I would say
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: probably around two for twenty would have been probably the ballpark,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: give or take to give a two year deal. So
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: this is a he's betting on himself. The worst case scenario,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: he gets one for eight next year in free agency,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: because they'll be the same boat that he had been in.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Thank Kyle, just what the Cardinals needed for their rotation, right,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: just what they were looking for.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think you know to that point, Lance,
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: I think this is a good landing spot as well
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: because of defense, you know, I think the Cardinals have
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: a good defense. Now, Dustin May doesn't always use his defense.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: He's got you messed up, but he's got that sinker
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: that he throws ground balls are going to turn it out.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: I think that's a good place for him to be
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: to make the thirty starts and good ballpark the pitch him.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: As for the trade market, it's been going crazy with
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: relief pitchers right. A couple of top of the line
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: relievers came off the market. Keller signs with the Phillies,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Luke Weaver to the Match. Both get two year deals.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: The Cardinals have a lefty reliever, which is even better
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: in terms of what teams are looking for. With Jojo Romero,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: they've reportedly decided that he would be a good guy
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: to bring back some trade pieces and deal him. I'm
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: just wondering, Lance, what you make of the reliever market.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Because you have teams right now doubling up on guys
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: that are closers. I mean, the relievers are coming off
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: the board one after the other.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: It's like a domino effect.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're seeing teams say, hey, we don't
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: just need one uh like back end closer a type,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: we need multiple. And that's also gonna if you're plan
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: on being a playoff team and keeping guys healthy throughout
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: the year, you got it. You can't just run one
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: guy out there every close situation because he's going to
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: get beat up and do things. So you've gotta be
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: able to mix and match at times, uh know when
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: a guy's barking, know when a guy needs some extra time,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: and have a guy that you're comfortable with doing that,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: and then you know, when you get in the playoffs
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: and all that, it's hey, whichever matchup works well in
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the seventh or eighth and ninth inning. If you've got
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: three guys that you know have the ability to finish
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: a ball game, then you're able to give that money.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I think. I think surprisingly you see some of the
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: money going around for quote unquote seventh eighth inning guys,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: you know, eleven million dollars a year for those guys.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Is it just shows you what teams put on the
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: back end of games. Now it's more important than uh,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: you know, they're you know, three four or five starters
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: because they're just gonna run started out there for five
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and this and that now, so they're devaluing the three four,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: five starters but overvaluing the you know, seventh, eighth, indiing guys.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So that's part of the game. This is the wave
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: that we're in right now. And then when it comes
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: to Jojo, if you look at you know, the can
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: control the price tag and all that, and uh, in
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: the in the world that we live in, relievers are
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: are they They come and go year in and year out.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: So if you've got a guy that you know you're
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: not gonna sign and can net you a good package,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: it's not a bad idea to entertain that. So that's why,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: especially with the money that's being thrown out for guys,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: if you can get some good prospects for him and
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: guys can they can pay him a little bit less
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: than you know what what guys are getting on the
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: on the open market right now, it's a it's a
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: no brainer for for the Cardinals, especially if you're in
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: a boat where, hey, we are retooling. You know, he's
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: a he's a type of guy that you know, teams
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: are really gonna throws some two good prospects at you,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: and you got to kind of look at it and
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: you might be able to, you know, in house cover
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: the eighth ninth inning and you get two prospects and
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: you said some money. So it's not a bad idea.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about Jojo Kyle, twenty nine year old
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: lefty and coming off really his best year in the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: major's career high an inning, sixty one innings e al right,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: two point oh seven, pitched in a few different spots,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: but all of them leverage, and he didn't just pitch well,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: he excelled. What do the Cardinals have and what are
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: the upside things about Jojo that will make them attract
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: him to another ball club?
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: Well, I think he does well against rieties as well,
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: which is nice. He doesn't have, you know, splits that
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: make it tough to leave him in there for you know,
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: even an inning plus, So that's nice. And I think
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: what we're seeing with teams, they're they're playing more of
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: the game of Okay, well, we have our back end,
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: so we're not. But what good does that do us?
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: If we give up the lead in the eighth, or
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: we give up the lead in the seventh, then we
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: can't even use our ninth thing guy that we're paying
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: all this way too. So yeah, I mean, I think
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: if you're a playoff team and you want to make
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: sure that seventh, eighth, ninth, and eth lockdown, then JoJo's
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: a guy that you're going to be willing to overpay.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Prospects for and have some control over.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: That was a really, really good picture.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: But I wonder you talk about the teams that are
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: doubling up on closers lance Like I mean, like Atlanta's bullpen,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it's bulked out right now. But when you have a
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: guy who's used to closing and then he's not going
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: to be the guy closing games, there's a mental aspect.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Like I look at Hellesley in New York, right he's
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: closer with the Cardinals franchise record for saves in a season,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: and then he's sort of a setup guy and he
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: admittedly didn't necessarily excel in that role. Isn't there a
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: mental aspect with changing the guy's world? You would say Okay,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: it's baseball, you're gonna pitch here. But with some guys,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I think closers, that mentality is a little different.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you have to realize that usually the guys
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: that have problems with it came up and they were
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: the guy right away at like, you know, Helsley came
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: in and kind of took over the closer role and
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: knows his you look at I had Craig Kimbro come over,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: uh to the White Sox and he struggled with it,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: and then we have Liam heinrickx as as a nineth
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: ending guy. But Craig is like the top you know,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I don't even know where he's at. He's like top
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: ten saves of all time list. So that's like it's
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: kind of a it's kind of a kick in the
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: sack for guys like that when they go to go
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: to teams. Guys like Jojo haven't quite been like, hey,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I've been the guy from the get go. He's used
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to pitching anywhere whenever he's told uh, same with like
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Weaver when he's going what he's doing and uh with
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: the Mets. Now, guys that kind of grew into back
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: end guys or you know, weren't the closer or hand
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: of the closer roles at a young age, don't really
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: care and they can't pitch anywhere. Guys like Elsley, you're
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Kimber's and stuff where it's like, hey, I've only ever closed,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: so I don't know what else to do. You understand,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: because it's a different whole, different daily routine. You know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: when you got to be ready this and that. But
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: these guys that are pitching the seventheth inning most of
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: their career but have the ability to close, just go
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: out there and do it. Allah Andrew Miller. Andrew Miller
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: was the guy that kind of invented this role, seventh
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: eighth inning guy that just dominated, but he had closer stuff,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: but he could pitch wherever, and he made a bullpend
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: great and he made these guys be very valuable. So
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: there is a different You got to look at how
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: they were brought up and what they were asked to
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: do earlier in their career. Helsey was never really asked
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: to do anything else. Greig Kimberle was never really asked
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: to do anything else. They were the closer, So that's
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: going to be a different and different feel for him.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: And so for the Rutger Jojo had eight saves last year,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: and even when Helsley was gone, he wasn't the primary closer.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: They sort had a team concept, so he can do
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: pretty much any leverage situation. Again, his numbers last season
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: really really good. Kept his velocity. I think there was
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: a little down spot, but kept his velocity and excelled
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: in the leverage situations. But with all the moves made
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: in terms of bullpen pieces now leverage guys, Kyle, I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: wonder is the market just heating up now or is
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: it possible that the Cardinals waited a little too long
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: to get the most.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: In return if they do, in fact trade Jojo.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: I don't think they waited too long. I think because
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: I don't think a team is going to trade for
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: him and say that he's their closer. I think the
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: team is probably setting up the backside first and then figured.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Out a.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Little bit more for a diel like Well, I mean,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: Kittridge isn't available, but you know that's the cop, right
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Are we going to pay for a Kittridge or would
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: we rather use prospect capital and trade for a who
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: is for Leavers like Jojo are always going to be
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: desired by other teams that know he has flexibility anywhere
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: from the sixth to the ninth.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: And we're going to take a break here you are
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: watching Cardinal Territory. We are on the Foil Territory platform.
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  Speaker 1: wants to be. All right, we are back so I
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to throw this at you because we've talked about
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: it a little bit before. If you're resetting, like the
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Cardinals are, you listen to every deal, right, someone says,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: hey I want this guy, even if you didn't plan
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: to trade them, you got to listen to everyone. But
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I'm asking you, guys specifically, if you were saved, for example,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the cards were a yard sale, you had one sign
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: this is not for sale. Which player would get your
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: not for sale sign? And I'll start with with.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: You, alight. I got a question though. So you're saying,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: all right, we're calling it, they're calling it a retool?
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Is what everyone?
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: We can reset?
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Reset, reset, Yeah, whatever Sam's saying. But here's the issue.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: If you trade Donovan's of the World and New Barts,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: that's a teardown. So if you're tearing it down, who's
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: your no If you're gonna say those guys are all
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: getting traded, now, who's a no trade, It's it's Mason,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Like that's on the big league grocer. That's been your
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: guy right there. It's Mason. When that would be that
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: would be the only guy that is probably untouchable in
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: a sense of hey, we're tearing it down. We're gonna
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: build around our middle, our gold glover. That's that. But
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: if you're doing a retool, then you don't get rid
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: of Donovan New any of those guys. And you just
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: try to figure out what you can get for uh
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Contraras and and Olin and then retool around the young
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: core that you already have. But if you're tearing it down,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you keep the young short stop. That's a that's a
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: gold glover, that's kind.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Of already your guy.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And then and then if you're gonna tear it down,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: tear it down Jojo Donna, then New you know those guys,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: anybody that's in arbitration a year or two into arbitration,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: tear down and let's rebuild the Let's just you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: just go the way down to the studs.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: First, uh, Kyle, who is your not for sale? And
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: then I want to get your reaction to that, because
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: one thing about Lance Lynn, he keeps it real.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: You know, I just I love that Lance used being.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Now you have, you know, take it down to the
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: stud tier. I am standing in the home build and
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: you know Lance goes straight to the construction pund this
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: three years Bill, I see you start, Yeah, twelve to
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: sixteen you're really doings as you know, three years aga
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: twelve to sixteen months. That's exactly what That's exactly what
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: constructed this. Yeah, so you know, I don't know who
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: I would say is untouchable. I would agree, I think
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: everything Lance said there. If it's if it is a retool,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: you're not getting rid of those guys. So if I
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: had to pick one, because I don't even think unless
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: you have plans to play JJ at shortstop, I don't
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: even think you trade Mason if it's a retool. You know, obviously,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: because if you trade Mason, I think it's a tear down.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: But I would probably say a guy like Burlison would
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: be one guy that I would say, Okay, you know,
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: just I don't know, just trying to say somebody different, really,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: But I mean I like what Burley brings to the
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: plate with his contact with ump, with doubles, with versatility,
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: playing defense, and just park group.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: So to me, if I were setting up tables of yards,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I would steer people away from Burrows and say, oh,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you don't want to look that guy. I wouldn't want
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: to deal him. But for me, it's Mason Win. I
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: think we saw him play through a knee injury and
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: he had a really good season. I mean he was
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: in pain. He was in pain for most of the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: season and didn't say a word. On top of that,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I think there's so much offensive potential that he's yet
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: to unlock with the pull side power. I think he's
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: a twenty homer guy with a decent batting average and
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: not just gold glove defense, that and beyond. And he's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: a leader in the clubhouse. Like he's not a guy
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: that wants to be on camera all the time, but
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I watch him there and you could see behind the
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: scenes he's the guy. So Mason Win is the guy
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: that I would not want to touch.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: He would be untouchable for me.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: But I want to go back to the word recent,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: because that's what I'm has called it. He doesn't say
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: it's a rebuild or a retool. He says reset, but
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Lance Linn says it's a tear down if they're trading
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the guys that are reportedly on the block. So are
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you not buying reset at this point knowing what the
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: plans may be?
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Lance?
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying, Well, if you look at
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: where they're at right now, they've only gotten rid of Sonny,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: So if they get rid of Wilson and Nolan, that's
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: the reset we're talking about. And then how can we
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: build around Donnie Burley, Mason new and then what is
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: going to not only make them better put them in
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: their best spots every day, but what's on the market
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: for one year deal is kind of like you did
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: with Dustin May for big league bench players or platoon players.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And then some of these guys that are you know, hey,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: we don't know if they're every day ready yet, they
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: need to go to triple A and then that's the
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: reset because also that's going to reset their clock too,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: so they're not all hitting arbitration at the same time
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and free agency at the same time. Then you have
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: to play everybody at the same time. So you got
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to stagger some of these guys
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: big league time, this and that by getting big leaguers
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: ready to go every day to help some of these
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: guys too, so they can slowly navigate into a winning program.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: If you just thow everybody, if you tear it down,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: or I say, if you reset and get rid of
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: all the old guys and bring nothing in, you're just
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: going to turn into a team that's got a bunch
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: of young guys that don't really know who's doing what
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: where they're supposed to be, and they're not going about
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: it the right way in a sense of, hey, here's
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: how you do it every day. Here's the lineups we're
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: going to put together. Righty, lefty, you're in here and here,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: and here's what we expect from you. And if you
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: don't get it done, hey we got a guy in
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: TRIPAA that can come up and stuff like that. That's
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: the retooling that you need is And let's be honest,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: the last two years you've sit there and said, hey,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: it's this guy's runway, Like we know who people are
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: right now, we got a really damn good idea who's
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: who Unless something dramatically changes, and if that does, that's
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: great then you're in a really good spot. But don't
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: plan on that plan on Hey, how am.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: I going to do something?
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And how they're going to you know, how are they
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: going to show me and earn it back from triple A?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Because I've given them two years in the big leagues
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: to do nothing, So now I need to get something
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: out there that can actually give me something to work
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: with and put a winning product on the field, because
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: you still have to try to win while you're developing
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: these guys, or you just turn into losing baseball players
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: at the big league level. And Kyle and I and
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I he knows exactly what I'm talking about and the
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: team that I'm talking about that has done it that way,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and it will literally bury your franchise if you do
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: not teach them how to be winning big league players.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: So that's my, my, my little spiel.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: I liked it.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: So the guys I think that got a lot of
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: runway and didn't have necessarily good seasons. You're talking about
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Walker who has tremendous upside. You're talking about Gorman, who
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: has tremendous power. I'm sure there's teams interested in both
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: those guys. But Kyle, I'm gonna ask you now, are
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you to yourself as you watch this thing unfold and
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: knowing what the plans are, are you saying reset, retool?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I guess we're going to conflate those two or are
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: they looking to do a bit more?
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: And maybe it is a teardown.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's a teardown. I think they still
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: trust some of these guys that they've given runway, And
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: I think this is if it turns into they don't
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: take a step forward and get better, then it probably
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: turns more into a teardown. If they take a step forward,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: I think it looks like a retool.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: All right, last thing, and then I will let you, gentlemen, go. Look,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about Donnie Brendan Donovan, and I
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: know you guys like him. You don't want to see
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: him go anywhere because you feel he's a piece to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: build around. He would also be on the table where
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll look over there. But it remains a
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: fact that he is the most attractive position player based
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: on his versatility, based on his upside that would bring
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: you the most in return. So when you talk about
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Brendan Donovan, it's not so much they want.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: To get rid of a guy.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: It's just everyone wants him on their team because they
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: can put him in a number of different places. So cow,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: my question to you is if they do trade Brendan Donovan,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: who knows if they will. I recently said, we're we're
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: not looking to trade him. There's been a lot of interest,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of the talk that you hear from GM's
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: president baseball ops agents. You don't really know what the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: true meaning is. My question to you answered, is it
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: a mistake, even if you're getting a nice turn of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: young players to trade Brendon Donovan.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I think you look at one thing and one thing
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: only when you're looking at this this reset. A guy
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: gets traded like Donovan, what does that do to your
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: clubhouse day in and day out? In my opinion, it's
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: going to hurt the clubhouse day in and day out.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Him new and Burl saying if they're gone, that hurts
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: the clubhouse day in and day out more than anyone
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: would ever know, in my opinion. So that's where I'm
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: at on this whole thing. You have to get quite
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: a return to make it worth not having a guy
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: like that there every day. And he's young. He can
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: do so many different things, like you making one of
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: your pillars by giving him an extension when he is
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: not as expensive as he will be in the future.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So that's my take on it.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: It's a pretty good one kind of you with Lance
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: on that one, because he makes a pretty strong taste
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: from keeping Brendan Donovan.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I am, and I think I had a
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: really interesting conversation with Matt Carpenter a team of twenty
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: twenty four, and we were talking about the difference between
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: a good player and a winning player, and Brendan Donovan
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: is a winning player, and to me, those are the
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: guys that you don't necessarily trade when you're in the
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: middle of retool. Like we had said, if you're in
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: the middle of a teardown, then yes you do, but
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: you keep those guys in the retool because winning players
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: breed winning players. And I think being in Saint Louis, Midwest,
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: middle of America, where you have people that really in
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: the show me state love loyalty, I think it's a
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: good move to find Donovan and a couple other guys
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: that say you are our guys, and yeah, we're going
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: to try and make you a Cardinal for life.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks in the Saint Louis
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: area would be happy if they kept running Downovan, but
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: every Cardinal fan wants the Cardinals to improve in any
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: way they can. Gentlemen, it was a pleasure.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Kyle.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Good luck with the It's a build up, it's not
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: a retool, but.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: There's still work to be done.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Right, It's not a teartory lance, always a pleasure. That's
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: going to do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: If you're podcasting, go ahead, throw five stars on it.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: If you're watching on YouTube, link and subscribe that we
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: are on the Foul Territory platform.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: We will see you next time.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Hopefully that episode won't suck.