Latest / Pursuit of Sassiness / RHOM’s Alexia Nepola brings in a professional to improve her love life

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RHOM’s Alexia Nepola brings in a professional to improve her love life · Pursuit of Sassiness

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of
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Speaker 1: your celebrity mentors, Alexinapola from the Real Houses of Miami,
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Speaker 1: and today I wanted to check in with someone I've
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Speaker 1: had on the podcast before. She's a psychologist who does
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Speaker 1: extensive work in the area of relationships, helping couples as
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Speaker 1: well as individuals in all areas of life before marriage,
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Speaker 1: during the marriage, separated, divorced, and high conflict divorce. Today,
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Speaker 1: it's kind of like I'm getting my own private session.
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Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I am a little bit scared.
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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. But once again, Hi, doctor Hillary.
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Speaker 1: It's so nice to see you again.
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Speaker 2: Nice to see you again too. I'm glad we could
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Speaker 2: come back together to chat.
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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm a little scared. I'm a little free because
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Speaker 1: this is I feel like this is like a live
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Speaker 1: session with like a lot of people, and I'm used
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Speaker 1: to like private sessions.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully you'll make me feel, you know, at ease
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Speaker 1: and calm and not nervous, and I can open up
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Speaker 1: as much as I need to.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean ground rules for any session, whether
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Speaker 2: other people are listening or not, is to only go
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Speaker 2: towards places that feel safe and comfortable. And you know,
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Speaker 2: I always like to think of it as like the
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Speaker 2: just right challenge. You can like go as far as
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Speaker 2: you think it's comfortable with just maybe pushing yourself a
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Speaker 2: little bit in terms of vulnerability and exposure for the
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Speaker 2: purposes of growth. But I got you. I'll make sure
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Speaker 2: that it feels okay and look out for signs if.
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Speaker 1: It's not okay. Thank you for that.
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Speaker 2: Last time we met, we were talking a lot about
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Speaker 2: dating and relationships, and I'd love to get sort of
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Speaker 2: a state of the union in terms of where you
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Speaker 2: are and if that still remains kind of a a
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Speaker 2: central theme for you.
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Speaker 1: Well, I feel like relationships have always been a big
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Speaker 1: part of my life. I feel like I've been married
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Speaker 1: my whole adult life, so as I said, for me,
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Speaker 1: they've always been important. But this time that I've been
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Speaker 1: on my own has honestly been so good for me.
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Speaker 1: I've discovered so much about myself and so much self
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Speaker 1: awareness and self love, and you know, just reflecting on why,
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Speaker 1: you know, my adult life and my adult relationships have
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Speaker 1: been the way that they've been, you know, I want
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Speaker 1: to see only the positive because I am an optimistic
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Speaker 1: and I continue to believe in love and I think
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Speaker 1: that that's one of my things that I love to heart.
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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm also proud of it. You know,
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Speaker 1: I don't want to change, you know. I like the
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Speaker 1: way I am. I'm just, like I said, more confident,
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Speaker 1: I know what I want, I know myself worth. You know,
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Speaker 1: sometimes it's you know, it's scary to be alone, and
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Speaker 1: I think it's not because you need that male partner.
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Speaker 1: You just don't know any other way of being, which
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Speaker 1: is kind of like, you know, my adult life that
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Speaker 1: have always been in a relationship and married.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting. I work with a
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Speaker 2: lot of female clients who talk about this sort of
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Speaker 2: I don't know, internal and also societal dilemma of like
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Speaker 2: wanting to love love, wanting to be in love, wanting
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Speaker 2: a partnership, and this pull around whether or not that's
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Speaker 2: an okay thing or an empowered thing, or a sign
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Speaker 2: of weakness. And I love that you're identifying and owning
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Speaker 2: with the desire for connection and partnership. I think that's
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Speaker 2: amazing and lovely and not only should there not be
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Speaker 2: shame in it, we should be able to identify and
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Speaker 2: declear that for ourselves. It is part of why we
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Speaker 2: exist is to be in connection and community with other people,
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Speaker 2: and romantic love is an enormous part of that. And
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Speaker 2: so I think for you leaning into that is lovely
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Speaker 2: and amazing. It's just trying to and it's a big
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Speaker 2: thing and a big pursuit of trying to tease out
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Speaker 2: what parts of that process have not worked for you,
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Speaker 2: you know, what parts of that process has led you
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Speaker 2: to relationships that ultimately aren't resident and to think about
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Speaker 2: continuously how you want to show up differently or more
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Speaker 2: expansively moving forward. So I'm curious how that process has
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Speaker 2: been and if that process has expanded since you've been alone.
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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, for me, love has always been It's
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Speaker 1: so my relationships have never ended because of lack of love.
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Speaker 1: And that's very important, you know, to distinguish, because I
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Speaker 1: feel like a lot of relationships either go apart or
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Speaker 1: you love each other, but not like in a romantic
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Speaker 1: or passionate way, and you know, you just don't, you know,
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Speaker 1: you're not in love anymore. But you know, my all
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Speaker 1: my relationships have been filled with lots of love, and
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Speaker 1: that's why I think I still hold on to that,
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Speaker 1: you know, to the idea of love because I know
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Speaker 1: how important love is and how great you can be
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Speaker 1: if you love the right way and you receive the
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Speaker 1: love back in the same way. So yeah, that's why
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Speaker 1: I'm still you know, happy and you know, and optimistic,
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Speaker 1: and I believe that everybody should be. Like, my happiness
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Speaker 1: doesn't depend on that person or on the relationship, because
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Speaker 1: I've always been a happy person. You know, I just
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Speaker 1: want that person to compliment, you know, my world, and
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Speaker 1: you know, to compliment me and to make me feel
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Speaker 1: emotionally safe and to be at peace. And you know,
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Speaker 1: I feel like we love differently in different stages of
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Speaker 1: our lives. And that's the stage that I'm at now.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I have all these tools
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Speaker 1: now with like being older and all the lessons that
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Speaker 1: have gone through and have so much wisdom that like
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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm I'm ready now. I wish I
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Speaker 1: would have had all these tools, you know, back in
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Speaker 1: the day, and maybe I would still be married, you know.
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Speaker 1: To The first to follow is because you know, I
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Speaker 1: feel like a lot of times, you know, you don't
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Speaker 1: have those tools, especially if you're you know, you're younger
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Speaker 1: like I was.
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Speaker 2: What are sort of the tools that you've curated that
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Speaker 2: make you feel more solid now. And then part two
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Speaker 2: of my question is where are the arenas if any
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Speaker 2: of deficits where you still feel like you need to
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Speaker 2: shore up to be prepared and ready for connection.
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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I feel like a lot of the
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Speaker 1: deficit that I had previously, you know, in the past,
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Speaker 1: besides you know, being younger and you know, naive not
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Speaker 1: knowing so much about myself was this time around. I
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Speaker 1: really dove into myself and into just finding out why
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Speaker 1: I am the way I am and why my relationships
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Speaker 1: were going maybe not the way I wanted them to go.
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Speaker 1: So I found out a lot about you know, they
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Speaker 1: call it now childhood trauma, but you know, I want
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Speaker 1: to call it like childhood experience. You know, like your
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Speaker 1: parents did the best that they could, and you know,
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Speaker 1: my parents loved me tremendously, but you know, I do
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Speaker 1: now realize that I did have childhood trauma. My parents
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Speaker 1: were divorced. That had a lot to do with it.
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Speaker 1: I feel like my parents had, especially my father, was
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Speaker 1: a love that was like conditional, like if I was
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Speaker 1: a good girl and I got eight pluses and I
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Speaker 1: you know, and I never got in trouble and I was,
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Speaker 1: you know, like you know, doing amazing in school and
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Speaker 1: at home and behave and respect. So they would give
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Speaker 1: me everything, you know, either materialistic wise, or they would
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Speaker 1: show me love. But the moment that I got in
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Speaker 1: trouble where I did something that they didn't like or
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Speaker 1: didn't align with their values, they would punish me, and
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Speaker 1: they would punish me by withdrawing that love and affection.
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Speaker 1: So in a way I thought it was okay because
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Speaker 1: it was my dad and he can do it. But
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Speaker 1: then I feel like I've had that pattern with men
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Speaker 1: in my life as well, that I think it's you know,
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Speaker 1: it's okay. So I found out a lot this time
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Speaker 1: because I've had I've given time to myself. I feel
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Speaker 1: like a lot of women when you know, we go
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Speaker 1: through these you know, separations if you want to call them,
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Speaker 1: you know, from our spouses. We we never really do
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Speaker 1: work in ourselves, you know. We either start going out
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Speaker 1: with our friends, we start drinking, we start you know,
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Speaker 1: doing things that really but we shouldn't really be doing
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Speaker 1: to deal with the pain instead of grieving it, you know,
8:04
Speaker 1: and sitting with yourself, reading the books, talking to life
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Speaker 1: coaches and this time, I really did it for myself,
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Speaker 1: and other times I've never given myself that time a
8:13
Speaker 1: bond from one relationship to the other. And I feel
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Speaker 1: like a lot of women do that because of different reasons, right,
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Speaker 1: not only because all we're scared to be alone or like,
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Speaker 1: you know, I know that a lot of people say that.
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Speaker 1: For me, it wasn't that. For me, it was just
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Speaker 1: a way of like trying to fall that find that
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Speaker 1: love again, right, like, so it could replace what I
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Speaker 1: had before, you know, with the new person.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. There, You're alluding to some important concepts. But one
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Speaker 2: thing in my world we call repetition compulsion, right, And
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Speaker 2: when we have a version of childhood traumas you alluded to,
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Speaker 2: childhood experiences that were tricky or difficult to absorb and
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Speaker 2: created certain patterns or beliefs about ourselves, we have an
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Speaker 2: internal edict to repeat that pattern repetition compulsion, in order
8:58
Speaker 2: to potentially get a different outcome. So if we had
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Speaker 2: a withholding father or a father that loved with condition
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Speaker 2: or loved in a way that was sort of true.
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Speaker 1: That it was okay. I mean, I'm saying I got
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Speaker 1: so much love. I think I got so much love.
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Speaker 1: I grew up in an environment that was very like
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Speaker 1: with My dad adored us. But that's the way that
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Speaker 1: he showed us. He showed me his love. Yes, know
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Speaker 1: that he would have killed for us, like my mother
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Speaker 1: and father literally spent other life fighting for us to
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Speaker 1: hillary because there were both doctors that were both divorced.
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Speaker 1: They both wanted us to live with them, so it
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Speaker 1: was all they spent other lives fighting for our love.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 1: And then I had a very nurturing grandmother. Thank god,
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Speaker 1: I might were Cuban descent. So my grandmother was like
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Speaker 1: the mother and our family, and she gave up her
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Speaker 1: life from my sister and I my brother, so she
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Speaker 1: gave us all the love no matter what we did
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Speaker 1: wrong or not. You know, she would still, you know,
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Speaker 1: give us that love that we needed and wanted. So
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Speaker 1: you know, it was never like lack of love. I
9:54
Speaker 1: think because our parents didn't have both tools either. So
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Speaker 1: now I like overcompensate. Not with my kids. I'm like,
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Speaker 1: I give them so much love, you know, but in
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Speaker 1: a different way, you know, I show them even if
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Speaker 1: they mess up, I still got you, I still love you,
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Speaker 1: I still give you a kiss. I'm may be mad
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Speaker 1: at you, but I'm still going to tell you I
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Speaker 1: love you, and I'm still going to give you that
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Speaker 1: hug that they need. So I heard a lot from that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking with such an important kind of nuanced
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Speaker 2: component and family systems, which is your your family. It
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Speaker 2: sounds like was filled with so much love. You understood
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Speaker 2: you were loved, You understood that your parents did everything
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Speaker 2: for you, work to support you, and once you grow
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Speaker 2: and expand, and the other thing that was true at
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Speaker 2: the same time is there was some tricky dynamics that
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Speaker 2: had you thinking about yourself and about love in certain
10:41
Speaker 2: ways that impacted you moving forward. And so it's interesting
10:45
Speaker 2: that people who come from childhood's where there wasn't traumas
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Speaker 2: people often say with like a capital tee, there's nothing
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Speaker 2: like identifiable that happened, sort of feel like, well, wait,
10:55
Speaker 2: what's wrong with me? Why am I not getting relationships right?
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Speaker 2: Nothing really happened to me, and as a result, have
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Speaker 2: a hard time understanding how they move through relationships at
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Speaker 2: times to their own detriment. And so you're bringing up
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Speaker 2: something so important, which is that you can have a
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Speaker 2: family that's like full of love and support and loyalty
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Speaker 2: and trust in all the things, but still have complex,
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Speaker 2: even insidious dynamics that impact how you move through the
11:22
Speaker 2: world and how you see love. And that's sort of
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Speaker 2: what you were describing, And so perhaps there's a part
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Speaker 2: of you that saw love as being conditional, that you
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Speaker 2: had to be perfect or show up in a particular
11:34
Speaker 2: way in order to be valuable and be worthy of
11:37
Speaker 2: a certain kind of love. And it's not that your
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Speaker 2: parents weren't loving, it just happened to be a particular
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Speaker 2: dynamic because you said, no one comes to parenting with
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Speaker 2: all the tools. We all have things to learn, and
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Speaker 2: this was one of your parents perhaps you know, blind
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Speaker 2: spots or ways that they move through the family dynamics.
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Speaker 2: So it's really lovely that you've taken the time to
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Speaker 2: figure out particularly what's going on for you, so you
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Speaker 2: don't have the compulsion, as I was alluding to before,
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Speaker 2: to repeat the pattern.
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Speaker 1: Right, because I feel that that's what happens. You got
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Speaker 1: And they've all been different, they've all had similarities, and
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Speaker 1: they've all had differences. But I think that that's really
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Speaker 1: like the core of the problem, and I just figured
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Speaker 1: that out. So I am like at peace, I feel
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Speaker 1: so happy. I'm not even like I'm actually like, I
12:25
Speaker 1: love that. Finally, you know, at my age, I got
12:27
Speaker 1: to figure this out because some people go on with
12:29
Speaker 1: life and they never figure out what triggers them, why
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Speaker 1: are the way they are? You know, people just like
12:34
Speaker 1: to say, oh no, because you know you're crazy or
12:35
Speaker 1: you're this, and you're not.
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Speaker 2: No, you're not.
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Speaker 1: You know, you just have to find that time, you
12:39
Speaker 1: make the effort. And I really needed to do this
12:43
Speaker 1: for myself. So it's a blessing in disguise. You know.
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Speaker 1: I just wish, you know, would have been earlier. But
12:48
Speaker 1: you know, now I'm at a great stage you know
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Speaker 1: in my life. I feel at peace, I have clarity,
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Speaker 1: you know, I'm confident and I'm feeling good. So yes,
12:58
Speaker 1: I really courage that for every woman. Honestly, I know
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Speaker 1: it's a cliche, but you know, you really have to
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Speaker 1: do it. You really have to do it, and it's uncomfortable.
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Speaker 1: You have to sit with yourself and you're going to
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Speaker 1: cry and you're going to read things. But you know,
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Speaker 1: the more information you know you have, you know, the
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Speaker 1: better that the better you feel about yourself.
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Speaker 2: Yes, I think often we have a propensity to avoid
13:20
Speaker 2: that work because there are a lot of tricky feelings
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Speaker 2: that can come up, including shame and guilt and fear
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Speaker 2: and anxiety and all the things. And I like to
13:32
Speaker 2: talk about the notion of integration. Paradoxically, the closer we
13:36
Speaker 2: go towards those feelings, the more integration that can occur,
13:40
Speaker 2: and the more we can feel empowered around those feelings.
13:43
Speaker 2: Meaning they're just a piece of us. They're not all
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Speaker 2: of us, and they're not something to be afraid of
13:48
Speaker 2: or to be avoided. They're to be welcomed in with
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Speaker 2: softness and care. The parts of us that are insecure,
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Speaker 2: the parts of us that are scared, that are traumatized,
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Speaker 2: that are fearful, instead of exigning them off where they
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Speaker 2: RecA it because we don't have control over them, don't
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Speaker 2: think about them, don't sort of shape them, We bring
14:07
Speaker 2: them closer. We make friends with those feelings, and we're
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Speaker 2: able to recognize it as just a small piece of us.
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Speaker 2: And it's actually a really empowering process. And the way
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Speaker 2: you were just talking, and you know, I can see
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Speaker 2: you right now, I can see you embodying that sort
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Speaker 2: of that feeling state of having done that kind of work.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also feel like I don't know about
14:26
Speaker 1: other patients that you see. But you know, I feel
14:29
Speaker 1: like me in particular. I've always liked to fix people
14:33
Speaker 1: and I and you know what, you cannot fix anyone
14:36
Speaker 1: that does not want to be fixed and that doesn't
14:39
Speaker 1: want to change, and change really doesn't happen, especially later
14:42
Speaker 1: on in life, like at our age, and you have
14:45
Speaker 1: to fix yourself and save yourself. And you know that's
14:49
Speaker 1: that's what you know, I've been doing because I feel
14:51
Speaker 1: like I had that. My mom was a psychiatrist, so
14:53
Speaker 1: you know, and so I missed her so much because
14:56
Speaker 1: she was so therapeutic. You know, she's such a great
15:00
Speaker 1: prior to them, by the way, she got to worce
15:01
Speaker 1: five times, and she gave able to give great couple therapy,
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Speaker 1: and she didn't she believed in divorced for herself, but
15:08
Speaker 1: not for other people. You know, obviously it's very complex.
15:11
Speaker 1: But and you know, my sister and my brother are
15:15
Speaker 1: still married because you know, we lived out you know,
15:17
Speaker 1: we lived in over where my mom was married five times,
15:19
Speaker 1: so that also impacted us. And but you know, I
15:24
Speaker 1: missed her a lot, and I did learn so much
15:26
Speaker 1: from her, and then now I'm actually like putting it
15:28
Speaker 1: to practice because of that time for myself, and I'm matured.
15:32
Speaker 1: You know. That's the other thing, you know, you have
15:34
Speaker 1: to like emotionally mature. You know, some people never do that,
15:38
Speaker 1: so you stay where you're at.
15:49
Speaker 2: I really like what you're talking about, which is when
15:53
Speaker 2: a couple of different concepts. When people show you who
15:55
Speaker 2: they are, particularly in a romantic contact, you have to
15:58
Speaker 2: believe them, right, you know, when they show up a
16:01
Speaker 2: particular way over and over again and show a lack
16:05
Speaker 2: of capacity or willingness to work through hard times, we
16:10
Speaker 2: have to believe them. We can't do the heavy lifting
16:12
Speaker 2: for two people.
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Speaker 1: And I love that you use that word capacity because
16:15
Speaker 1: my mom would always use that word, and my mom
16:17
Speaker 1: would say, you can't even be mad with the person
16:19
Speaker 1: or hate them. It's just they do not have the capacity.
16:22
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to move on because they do not
16:24
Speaker 1: have the capacity to love you the way you want
16:27
Speaker 1: them to love you. So you know, but it's hard,
16:29
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard when you realize that, and you know,
16:32
Speaker 1: when there's love and you love the person and whatnot.
16:35
Speaker 2: Incredibly painful. It's a very grief filled process to love
16:39
Speaker 2: someone and recognize they don't have that capacity, that bandwidth
16:42
Speaker 2: to meet you there and to have to let it
16:45
Speaker 2: go in the service of finding someone that can. And
16:48
Speaker 2: it sounds like that's that's where you've arrived. And I'm
16:52
Speaker 2: curious as you look towards dating now, what are you
16:56
Speaker 2: looking for? What have you identified as the kind of
17:00
Speaker 2: partner you want, the love languages that resonate with you.
17:04
Speaker 2: How do you think of it now?
17:07
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not there yet. I'm not dating anyone or no,
17:10
Speaker 1: am I interesting. I'm dating myself. Like, honestly, I feel
17:14
Speaker 1: so good with just being by myself with my children,
17:17
Speaker 1: you know, the third young men. But to me, they're
17:19
Speaker 1: always going to be my kids, and I'm so connected
17:21
Speaker 1: to them, so now more than ever, I'm you know,
17:24
Speaker 1: closest to both of them. I've always been close, but
17:27
Speaker 1: like I said, you know, I feel like because unfortunately
17:30
Speaker 1: they've seen me and a lot of dumb times in
17:33
Speaker 1: my life, so they're like, you know, stepping up for me.
17:37
Speaker 1: So thank goodness that you know that I've had them,
17:39
Speaker 1: that I have them. But you know, I just feel
17:42
Speaker 1: good with myself, like I feel good, I'm at peace.
17:44
Speaker 1: You know, I'm doing things with my family, with my friends,
17:48
Speaker 1: and that's just like where I am now and.
17:51
Speaker 2: When you think about the possibility of a partner in
17:55
Speaker 2: the future, are you just leaving that too unfold?
17:58
Speaker 1: As you know. I mean, it hasn't really doubt for me.
18:00
Speaker 1: But I'm not giving up on love. Like you know,
18:02
Speaker 1: I love love, But like now I know what love
18:05
Speaker 1: has to look like for me, you know. I think before,
18:09
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really know what love was.
18:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so what so maybe that's the question, what
18:15
Speaker 2: does it have to look like for you to consider stuffing?
18:21
Speaker 1: Well, I think for me it just has to be
18:23
Speaker 1: like I have to you know, And it's not we
18:26
Speaker 1: have butterflies in your stomach. It's always been for me,
18:29
Speaker 1: but you know, and I still wanted to be that,
18:31
Speaker 1: you know, because I love that passion, because I'm very passionate.
18:34
Speaker 1: But you know, for me, it has to be I
18:37
Speaker 1: have to feel emotionally safe. Now I know what that means.
18:41
Speaker 1: I never really knew what that meant, by the way,
18:43
Speaker 1: so you know, there has to be boundaries, you know,
18:46
Speaker 1: which I didn't know that word either, And I know,
18:48
Speaker 1: like you know, thank you, I don't like social media,
18:50
Speaker 1: but there are some positive things about social media, and
18:53
Speaker 1: I feel like those things have always existed. We just
18:55
Speaker 1: didn't have terms for them because all these dew terms
18:57
Speaker 1: that we talk about now, like I remember my mom
19:00
Speaker 1: talking about them, but they were called something else. So
19:03
Speaker 1: you know, now I know what like what I deserve
19:06
Speaker 1: and what I want. I think before it was like
19:08
Speaker 1: all over the place because and not because people think, oh,
19:12
Speaker 1: you know, your life is like a telenobela, and you're like,
19:15
Speaker 1: you've always had so much chaos and things happen to you.
19:17
Speaker 1: You know, it's that's what I've been attracted. You know,
19:20
Speaker 1: that's what I attract. You know, that's what I've attracted
19:22
Speaker 1: in the past. So it's not like I'm at peace.
19:24
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, very like two, I'm good. But
19:28
Speaker 1: then for whatever reasons in my life I've attracted. I
19:31
Speaker 1: don't know why I'm attracted to that chaos. I don't
19:33
Speaker 1: know if it's because it's fun and adventurous or like,
19:36
Speaker 1: you know what it is. But again, I really do
19:38
Speaker 1: know what it is now, and it's because I always
19:41
Speaker 1: see the potential and I like the fact of like
19:43
Speaker 1: fixing people, like I want to save people, and I'm
19:46
Speaker 1: tired of saving people, like you know, because at the end,
19:49
Speaker 1: I have to save myself and that's what I had
19:51
Speaker 1: to do, and that's what I've always done, right, saved myself.
19:55
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean we're here. You know, as a mom,
19:57
Speaker 1: I can save my children, but I don't think I
19:59
Speaker 1: should have to save any man.
20:00
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I think one one emotional fallout of that
20:05
Speaker 2: savior complex is really a self abandonment. You know, when
20:11
Speaker 2: you become so focused on helping someone else evolve or
20:16
Speaker 2: save them from their own toxicity. The only way we
20:19
Speaker 2: can do that is to yourself.
20:22
Speaker 1: Yes, yourself, absolutely, that's right. And you know what, that's
20:25
Speaker 1: not real love. And you really think about it, because
20:27
Speaker 1: if you have to give up like who you are
20:29
Speaker 1: and your self worth and you know, to save someone else,
20:32
Speaker 1: and that person you know can't see it, then that
20:34
Speaker 1: person doesn't deserve you, and you should not want to
20:37
Speaker 1: be with that person.
20:38
Speaker 2: Right, And by definition, it lacks reciprocity, right, I mean,
20:42
Speaker 2: if you're if one is interested in emotional connection and
20:47
Speaker 2: depth and connection, it can only happen if it's reciprocal.
20:51
Speaker 2: And so if what is in the savior role and
20:53
Speaker 2: the other is in the role of sort of intermittently
20:57
Speaker 2: receiving it, of course that isn't the fertile ground to
20:59
Speaker 2: build that. So it's really glad we're talking about that
21:02
Speaker 2: because you have to get pretty conscious about recognizing if
21:06
Speaker 2: you're in that role of quote saving someone or focusing
21:10
Speaker 2: on someone's potential versus what they're showing you, because the
21:14
Speaker 2: outcome inevitably is self abandonment.
21:17
Speaker 1: That is true. Yeah, I mean we also have to
21:20
Speaker 1: be careful with a lot of things. You know. I
21:21
Speaker 1: feel like nowadays two you know, you you know, women
21:26
Speaker 1: and men too. I mean we're also empowered, you know,
21:28
Speaker 1: with all this information. You know, I feel like we
21:31
Speaker 1: give up sometimes before we should give up. You know,
21:35
Speaker 1: that's not who I am obviously. You know, people that
21:39
Speaker 1: know me know that I'm like, I give it my all.
21:42
Speaker 1: You know, I fight till the end. But you have
21:44
Speaker 1: to know, you know how much you're going to fight,
21:47
Speaker 1: you know, and like you said, you can't avangage yourself,
21:50
Speaker 1: you know, to make you know, somebody else happy that
21:53
Speaker 1: doesn't really want to be connected and want to do
21:55
Speaker 1: the work on their part.
21:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's couples that work, and how longevity and
22:02
Speaker 2: sustainable intermittent but sustainable passion really build an intentional, deliberate
22:09
Speaker 2: skill set around conflict resolution right around, like how do
22:13
Speaker 2: we deal with hard things? How do we talk about it?
22:16
Speaker 2: How do we support each other when we have individual
22:20
Speaker 2: or mutual times of stress? You know, how do we
22:23
Speaker 2: show up? What is the language we use? How do
22:26
Speaker 2: we recover from a fracture between us? You really have
22:30
Speaker 2: to get so deliberate and intentional, because when we're triggered,
22:34
Speaker 2: all of us, we don't show up as our best selves.
22:37
Speaker 2: So understanding how we show up when we're triggered, Understanding
22:40
Speaker 2: how our partner shows up when they're triggered, and building
22:43
Speaker 2: skills to sort ourselves and each other is critical. And
22:47
Speaker 2: to your point of folks giving up too early, I
22:50
Speaker 2: think oftentimes it's related to this topic that if you
22:53
Speaker 2: haven't curated a way of approaching conflict resolution, it's really
22:58
Speaker 2: hard to stay together. It can feel quite how.
23:00
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a problem, Like since the kids
23:02
Speaker 1: are little, you know that you have to show your kids,
23:05
Speaker 1: you have to give them those skills, you know, And
23:07
Speaker 1: I'm guilty as a parent, and I'm sure there's so
23:09
Speaker 1: many other listeners that are listening to that that we
23:11
Speaker 1: just resolve everything for them, you know, so they don't
23:14
Speaker 1: know how to resolve conflict, and I feel that we
23:17
Speaker 1: also carry it onto our relationships because if you don't
23:20
Speaker 1: know how to you know, solve certain things when you're
23:22
Speaker 1: a young person, then as you get older, you carry
23:25
Speaker 1: it onto everything. You're personal, you're professional. And I think
23:28
Speaker 1: that that's what happens, you know with the couples. Like
23:30
Speaker 1: you're saying, like there's no repair after the conflict for
23:34
Speaker 1: whatever reason. If you had the mom that would stay
23:36
Speaker 1: quiet at home and the dad would do whatever, you
23:39
Speaker 1: learn that from your mom, So you're like, Okay, well
23:41
Speaker 1: maybe I should just stay quiet and not say what
23:43
Speaker 1: I need to say just to avoid the conflict. So
23:45
Speaker 1: it's so complicated. It's really complicated. You just have to
23:50
Speaker 1: both want the same thing and put in time and
23:52
Speaker 1: the effort and you know, and be able to communicate
23:55
Speaker 1: and talk about uncomfortable things.
23:57
Speaker 2: Well, you start to start saying, right, but I'm curious,
24:00
Speaker 2: what have you learning about your own approach moving forward
24:04
Speaker 2: around conflict resolution? What what has like tripped you up
24:07
Speaker 2: in the past, and what do you want to bring
24:09
Speaker 2: to a new relationship.
24:11
Speaker 1: Right, Well, I mean I feel like I need to
24:13
Speaker 1: be maybe a better listener, you know, and not be
24:17
Speaker 1: like so reactive at the moment, you know, because sometimes
24:21
Speaker 1: they don't realize that you're reacting to whatever behavior they're
24:25
Speaker 1: showing you. But you know, I feel like it's important
24:28
Speaker 1: to know your you know, your spouse or your partner,
24:32
Speaker 1: whoever you're in a relationship with, you need to know,
24:35
Speaker 1: you need to know them, you know. I feel like
24:37
Speaker 1: sometimes we don't know that person enough, so you don't
24:40
Speaker 1: know how to like navigate. But I feel it's important
24:43
Speaker 1: that both people do know each other and respect each other.
24:46
Speaker 1: And like, I've learned so much even about that, about
24:48
Speaker 1: attachment styles, avoidant, anxious. I'm the anxious one, so I'm
24:52
Speaker 1: trying not to be so anxious. But you know, so
24:54
Speaker 1: I've just like done a lot of reading, a lot
24:56
Speaker 1: of like you know, coaching and and therapy that really,
25:00
Speaker 1: you know, helped me just be better, you know, not
25:03
Speaker 1: to be with another man, not to do with anybody else,
25:05
Speaker 1: but just with myself.
25:07
Speaker 2: You know.
25:07
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm I've learned a lot, and I'm
25:10
Speaker 1: very satisfied and grateful that I finally got to a
25:14
Speaker 1: good you know, to a good space, you know that
25:16
Speaker 1: I feel good about myself.
25:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking about such a critical piece, which is
25:23
Speaker 2: when you're in a partnership understanding the other person's style
25:28
Speaker 2: during conflict, and that encompasses a lot of things. So
25:31
Speaker 2: what happens for them when they are in the realm
25:35
Speaker 2: of conflict? Do they shut down? Do they get more
25:39
Speaker 2: activated and aggressive? Do they feel vulnerable and fearful of
25:43
Speaker 2: being abandoned? You know what happens for that person when
25:47
Speaker 2: they feel threatened through conflict, right, and what happens to
25:51
Speaker 2: you in the same scenario. And things may be quote complimentary,
25:56
Speaker 2: or they may work against each other and having converse
26:00
Speaker 2: stations with your partner outside of the tricky moment. We
26:03
Speaker 2: don't try to figure this out while.
26:04
Speaker 1: We're fighting exactly.
26:07
Speaker 2: We figure it out, you know, over a glass of
26:09
Speaker 2: wine or during a walk on the beach or something
26:12
Speaker 2: of like, let's really think about what happens for both
26:15
Speaker 2: of us when we fight. You know, one person says
26:18
Speaker 2: they might withdraw. The other person says they might get
26:20
Speaker 2: heightened and activated and a little more aggressive. Like recognizing
26:23
Speaker 2: that and saying that vulnerably to the other person is
26:27
Speaker 2: a really good first start and then asking each other, well,
26:30
Speaker 2: what do you need in that moment? You know, one
26:32
Speaker 2: person might need a hand on the knee. One person
26:34
Speaker 2: might need a ten minute pause, One person might need
26:37
Speaker 2: words of affirmation. One person might need like a code
26:41
Speaker 2: word that means we still love each other. Right, that
26:45
Speaker 2: coming up with a process to address each other's sort
26:48
Speaker 2: of pain points in this moment, in those moments is
26:51
Speaker 2: really really important. And then figuring out you alluded to
26:54
Speaker 2: this earlier around how do you self advocate? How do
26:59
Speaker 2: you say the how do you say this is what
27:01
Speaker 2: I need, this is what I want, and I'm not
27:03
Speaker 2: abandoning my need in this moment, but do it in
27:06
Speaker 2: a digestible way. And I often talk about the difference
27:09
Speaker 2: between aggression versus advocacy, so critical, Right, we never have
27:15
Speaker 2: to say I'm not saying what I need, I'm not
27:17
Speaker 2: saying what I feel, but we should take responsibility for
27:20
Speaker 2: how we say it. So message is, you know, always
27:24
Speaker 2: on point in terms of what our needs are, but
27:26
Speaker 2: the delivery system has to be curated.
27:29
Speaker 1: I'm working on my delivery. You know, I'm under show
27:31
Speaker 1: that we all have very poor delivery. Yes, so I'm
27:35
Speaker 1: definitely working on that. That's very important, and you know,
27:38
Speaker 1: I feel also it's important to have that partner if
27:40
Speaker 1: it's going to listen to you and validate that, because
27:42
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of women are afraid, you know,
27:45
Speaker 1: to actually talk about their emotions. You know, I was
27:47
Speaker 1: one of them in different relationships. I've always suffered from
27:51
Speaker 1: that too, because you know, I grew up kind of
27:52
Speaker 1: like even though my mom was a psychiatrist and people
27:54
Speaker 1: would go to her to say their needs and their
27:56
Speaker 1: problems and all that, but it was kind of like,
27:58
Speaker 1: you know, we couldn't really talk about our feelings and
28:01
Speaker 1: our emotions. So I feel like, you know, the older women,
28:06
Speaker 1: hopefully their younger generation, they are very you know, out
28:09
Speaker 1: there and they're very like vocal about, you know, their
28:11
Speaker 1: feelings and emotions. But you know, I feel like, as
28:14
Speaker 1: you know, older women do maybe be in situations like that,
28:17
Speaker 1: whether they're even like afraid, you know, to say anything
28:19
Speaker 1: because it's either going to create you know, conflict, or
28:22
Speaker 1: they're not going to be you know, their feelings aren't
28:25
Speaker 1: going to be validated, or they're just going to say, oh,
28:27
Speaker 1: I hear, you're overreacting. But whatever, you put up with
28:29
Speaker 1: it for such long time, right, some people put up
28:31
Speaker 1: with it for a super long time, and then when
28:33
Speaker 1: they react, it's like, you know, it's a little too late. Yeah,
28:37
Speaker 1: it's super important from the beginning right to just be
28:41
Speaker 1: who you are, say what you need to say, Like
28:43
Speaker 1: you say, the delivery is important and just you know,
28:46
Speaker 1: you have to get it off your chest.
28:48
Speaker 2: Yes, I really like to put that under the category
28:51
Speaker 2: of self advocacy and help people start if it resonates,
28:55
Speaker 2: starts conceptualizing it is that it really really is it.
29:00
Speaker 2: It's sharing our feelings, but it's really under the more
29:03
Speaker 2: holistic umbrella of advocating for ourselves and how we want
29:06
Speaker 2: to be seen and treated and how we want to
29:08
Speaker 2: move through the world. And we want to have a
29:10
Speaker 2: partner that is able to listen to and care about
29:14
Speaker 2: and respond to our feelings. And our responsibility is to
29:19
Speaker 2: deliver it in a way that is as I said, digestible.
29:22
Speaker 2: But their responsibility is to find a way to meet
29:25
Speaker 2: you there and listen. And that doesn't mean you always
29:28
Speaker 2: get what you want, but it should mean that more
29:30
Speaker 2: often than not at least you're getting acknowledged and validated
29:34
Speaker 2: and really creating that positive feedback loop is like a practice.
29:39
Speaker 1: Weish thinking for them. This is a two way street.
29:42
Speaker 1: You know, it's all that we want all this from them,
29:44
Speaker 1: and you know, we don't give anything in return. No,
29:47
Speaker 1: you have to reciprocate. We have to do the same
29:49
Speaker 1: thing for them.
29:50
Speaker 2: That's right. You know, as we're talking about delivery, the
30:04
Speaker 2: delivery system by which we share our needs. I just
30:07
Speaker 2: wanted to offer this. I think it's a really important
30:09
Speaker 2: relationship hack, which is that obviously none of us are
30:12
Speaker 2: going to deliver our messaging and our needs in a
30:16
Speaker 2: perfect way every time. Nobody does that. So what do
30:19
Speaker 2: we do when we've shown up in a way we
30:21
Speaker 2: don't feel good about? And you know, I just always
30:24
Speaker 2: like to offer the idea that like we can always
30:26
Speaker 2: go back, we can always go back, whether it's five
30:28
Speaker 2: minutes later, an hour later, or like ten days later,
30:31
Speaker 2: and sort of say, like, you know, we were talking
30:33
Speaker 2: about that thing, and like my message was on point,
30:37
Speaker 2: but like the way I said it to you, I
30:39
Speaker 2: don't I don't feel good about. You know, I just
30:41
Speaker 2: wanted to come to you and say I'm really sorry
30:43
Speaker 2: I raise my voice or have that tone or said
30:45
Speaker 2: this phrase. That doesn't feel good to you. Right, the
30:48
Speaker 2: thing I was talking about is still really important to me,
30:51
Speaker 2: But I'm going to table that for now because I
30:53
Speaker 2: want you to know I didn't feel good about how
30:54
Speaker 2: I said it, and that can create a lot of
30:56
Speaker 2: good will between a couple, and goodwill is such a
31:01
Speaker 2: critical like fuel for a couple to sustain is to
31:05
Speaker 2: show up and raise your hand and said, hey, that
31:07
Speaker 2: was on me, and have that humility and that vulnerability
31:11
Speaker 2: to do that. And this allows us to not subscribe
31:15
Speaker 2: to the idea that somehow we always have to get
31:17
Speaker 2: it right. And so maybe that gives us a little
31:19
Speaker 2: more confidence to try.
31:22
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, that's great advice.
31:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it now.
31:27
Speaker 1: I had to learn in the hard way, but that's
31:29
Speaker 1: really really good advice.
31:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious if I mean, obviously some of your
31:36
Speaker 2: relationships were were in the public eye or at least
31:41
Speaker 2: somewhat shown on television.
31:43
Speaker 1: All of them, all of them have been on the
31:45
Speaker 1: public and on TV.
31:47
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, what how did that add to the
31:50
Speaker 2: complication of your relationships?
31:54
Speaker 1: You know, it's been they're all different, but I feel like,
31:58
Speaker 1: you know, once you're you know, once the public has
32:03
Speaker 1: you know, access to your to your life or two comments,
32:06
Speaker 1: you know, and you have that public scrutiny that you know,
32:09
Speaker 1: it's it just becomes so much more worse if you're
32:12
Speaker 1: that type of person. You know, I try to not
32:14
Speaker 1: read comments. I have very thick skin, and I know
32:17
Speaker 1: who I am, and I actually love who I am,
32:19
Speaker 1: and I know my family, I know my morals and values.
32:22
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm going to show where you know,
32:24
Speaker 1: you don't get to see my whole life story. And
32:27
Speaker 1: you we're filming for three months, so it's whatever's happening
32:29
Speaker 1: at the moment, and there's a lot of holes. You know,
32:31
Speaker 1: it's not the complete story. So people just judge you
32:34
Speaker 1: or your relationship or your marriage, you know, based on
32:37
Speaker 1: what they see, which really isn't fair. But you know,
32:41
Speaker 1: and it's really hard, you know, having to share, you know,
32:44
Speaker 1: Unfortunately I had to share something very difficult for me
32:47
Speaker 1: because you know, I love this person. So when you're
32:49
Speaker 1: in love with the person and it's not it was
32:52
Speaker 1: just really difficult. It's just really difficult. I try for
32:54
Speaker 1: it not to affect me because, like I said, I
32:57
Speaker 1: know the type of relationship you know that I'm in
33:00
Speaker 1: and that I have, and you know the people, the
33:02
Speaker 1: men that I've loved, so it's like I don't get
33:03
Speaker 1: offended by any of that. Yeah, but definitely it's hard
33:06
Speaker 1: because once you're a public person, like everybody has an
33:09
Speaker 1: opinion about it, Like everybody talks about Jalo one event.
33:11
Speaker 1: I'm like, and you read the comments and it's so
33:14
Speaker 1: like heartbreaking. I'm like, you don't even know these people, like,
33:16
Speaker 1: you don't even know how can you say something you
33:19
Speaker 1: know so horrific? You know. Unfortunately, there's a lot of
33:21
Speaker 1: people in the world with a lot of hate that
33:24
Speaker 1: don't know what love is. They've never been in a relationship,
33:27
Speaker 1: they've never had that love. Because no matter what I
33:29
Speaker 1: was telling all my friends that think and divorce, I'm like,
33:31
Speaker 1: and they want to talk bad. I'm like, you think
33:33
Speaker 1: about the good, you know what I mean? There was
33:35
Speaker 1: also good? You know, that's why you love this man.
33:37
Speaker 1: So there was also a lot of good. There was
33:39
Speaker 1: also a lot of love, and you know, that's what
33:41
Speaker 1: I like to focus on, you know, on the love
33:44
Speaker 1: of it. But it's definitely hard when you are in
33:47
Speaker 1: the public eye.
33:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like you've really come to some version
33:52
Speaker 2: of a reconciliation with it and are able to not
33:56
Speaker 2: imbibe all of the public feedback.
33:59
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course absolutely, you know, and there's going
34:02
Speaker 1: to be people that you know that that like it.
34:04
Speaker 1: You know that are good life on your favorite people
34:06
Speaker 1: that are just gonna have an opinion, you know, you
34:08
Speaker 1: know how that is. But honestly, I really don't let
34:12
Speaker 1: it affect me. You know, I really do care about,
34:14
Speaker 1: you know what, my family and my close friends you
34:17
Speaker 1: know that have been with me and know more my life.
34:19
Speaker 1: Then they're inside of it, you know, to say something.
34:22
Speaker 1: But the public that doesn't really know me, that just
34:24
Speaker 1: se is like a clip for two minutes, you know
34:26
Speaker 1: on TV. I don't care about what they have to say.
34:29
Speaker 1: You know, It's my life and I'm going to live
34:31
Speaker 1: it the way I want to live it. And I'm
34:33
Speaker 1: a good, kind person and I'm a loving person, and
34:35
Speaker 1: you know, and that's you know I feel you know,
34:38
Speaker 1: I feel good about you know, myself and whatever choice is.
34:41
Speaker 1: You know, I've been.
34:43
Speaker 2: Such a good example of boundaries. I mean, obviously your
34:46
Speaker 2: your situation is more on a macro scale, but on
34:48
Speaker 2: a micro scale for anybody listening, it can be triggering, activating.
34:55
Speaker 2: We can feel super heightened when we hear people have
34:58
Speaker 2: feedback about us that doesn't feel good, you know, that
35:01
Speaker 2: isn't well intentioned. And being able to create an internal
35:06
Speaker 2: boundary if someone that we love and care about and
35:09
Speaker 2: trust has feedback that they want to offer in a
35:12
Speaker 2: kind of respectful way that is very different than someone
35:15
Speaker 2: doing it in an indirect implicit way or in a
35:18
Speaker 2: direct aggressive way. And being able to recognize that when
35:22
Speaker 2: feedback comes through that delivery system, it's not something that
35:27
Speaker 2: we're responsible to take in in that manner. And really
35:30
Speaker 2: being able to trust what we know about ourselves and
35:32
Speaker 2: our intuition about ourselves.
35:34
Speaker 1: So grateful that I am the way that I am,
35:36
Speaker 1: because it's true, it could really affect a lot of people,
35:39
Speaker 1: you know, the mental health, because you know, if you're
35:41
Speaker 1: reading these things like every day, like the comes the
35:45
Speaker 1: moment that you start believing them, you know. But thank
35:48
Speaker 1: goodness for me that I'm not affected by, you know,
35:51
Speaker 1: by those things. But you know, I mean, in general,
35:54
Speaker 1: going through anything, you know, in the public eye when
35:57
Speaker 1: you're a public person, just makes it even more painful
36:00
Speaker 1: and more difficult.
36:02
Speaker 2: One thing that I do regularly has work with couples
36:05
Speaker 2: that are going through divorces, amicable divorces all the way
36:10
Speaker 2: to super high conflict divorces and co parenting and kiddos
36:14
Speaker 2: obviously can be an enormously painful, big issue through the
36:18
Speaker 2: divorce process. How has parenting and your relationship with your
36:24
Speaker 2: kids evolved through divorces.
36:27
Speaker 1: I've been very fortunate. So the father of my kids is,
36:30
Speaker 1: you know, an amazing father, and they always taught a
36:34
Speaker 1: g re relationship with him. So when I married my
36:36
Speaker 1: second husband, Herman, he was like their father. Like my
36:40
Speaker 1: kids would say, I have two fathers. He was such
36:41
Speaker 1: an incredible stepfather and they were friendly to so my
36:45
Speaker 1: kids would say, you know, we're so lucky, you know,
36:47
Speaker 1: we have two dads, you know. So I felt like
36:50
Speaker 1: they had the best of both worlds because like what
36:52
Speaker 1: Herman could give them, you know, the dad can't give them,
36:55
Speaker 1: and when the dad could give them, Herman can give them.
36:57
Speaker 1: So they literally had two like amazing you know father figures,
37:01
Speaker 1: you know, in different ways. And you know, and then
37:04
Speaker 1: when I met Todd, my kids were already older, so
37:06
Speaker 1: it wasn't like it's different. I feel like it's different
37:08
Speaker 1: when they're younger than when they're older. And you know,
37:11
Speaker 1: it just comes to like being like the friend, you
37:13
Speaker 1: know what I mean, It's just being a friend. So
37:16
Speaker 1: it's my I've been very lucky when it comes with
37:18
Speaker 1: the kids, and you know, and the fathers or the
37:21
Speaker 1: stepfathers if you want to call them, you know, being
37:24
Speaker 1: you know involved with my kids. It's been about just
37:27
Speaker 1: like about love and friendship and just you know going
37:30
Speaker 1: out like nobody is like try to outdo the other,
37:34
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I just want to
37:35
Speaker 1: be your friend. I'm not here to you know, to
37:38
Speaker 1: substitute or take away from your dad. You know, We're
37:41
Speaker 1: just all want to get along and we all want
37:43
Speaker 1: to be friends. And that's and that's what it's like.
37:45
Speaker 1: That that's what it's been. So thank God that I've
37:48
Speaker 1: had that. So that's made it so much easier because
37:50
Speaker 1: that's very difficult. I can imagine for a mom.
37:53
Speaker 2: It's a really good template and you're right by definition,
37:57
Speaker 2: it has a catch of being very difficult and confrontative
38:00
Speaker 2: for all the parties involved, especially the kids. And so
38:03
Speaker 2: I think when the new person, the new partner and
38:07
Speaker 2: new stepparent, et cetera, comes into the picture, taking on
38:11
Speaker 2: the sort of role that you were describing as you know,
38:14
Speaker 2: a friend, a positive presence, you know, like any community
38:17
Speaker 2: member might be in a family unit, I think is
38:20
Speaker 2: a really good place to start, and if it evolves
38:22
Speaker 2: from there, that's amazing and beautiful and fortunate. And if
38:25
Speaker 2: it just remains and I put justin quotes because it's amazing,
38:29
Speaker 2: but as a as a a trust and safe other
38:33
Speaker 2: that's part of your community, that that's an enormous win
38:36
Speaker 2: given the scenario.
38:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's very complex, so that we can
38:40
Speaker 1: talk about all days. Really, it's so like situational, like
38:44
Speaker 1: it depends on you know, everybody has a different circumstance,
38:46
Speaker 1: a different situation, you know, backstory, past history. I mean,
38:51
Speaker 1: it's very you know, but luckily for me, for me
38:54
Speaker 1: it was it's been very very good.
38:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm aware that your son was
39:00
Speaker 2: in an accident a number of years back. How is
39:03
Speaker 2: he sharing me at this point?
39:06
Speaker 1: Weok, oh, No, he's twenty eight years old. He's doing amazing.
39:10
Speaker 1: He has a brain injury, so he suffers from aphasia
39:13
Speaker 1: and he has a communication disorder. So something like that.
39:17
Speaker 1: Families that have gone through something like that, it changes
39:20
Speaker 1: the whole dynamics of your family and of your relationship.
39:24
Speaker 1: So I was married to herman at the time, and
39:27
Speaker 1: he couldn't have been better than what he was. He
39:30
Speaker 1: was an incredible man, and it brought us together as
39:35
Speaker 1: a family more, but it also created distance in my
39:39
Speaker 1: relationship with him because Frankie became my priority. I mean,
39:43
Speaker 1: I didn't you know, I was in a hospital for
39:45
Speaker 1: almost a year. I came back home and we had
39:48
Speaker 1: our room upstairs and Frankie had his room downstairs, and
39:50
Speaker 1: I wanted to see with Frankie. I've never left Frankie's side,
39:54
Speaker 1: so it's like I didn't realize what I was doing
39:56
Speaker 1: right like as a woman, because I needed to save
39:58
Speaker 1: my son. And he was so good that he was
40:00
Speaker 1: okay with it. You know, he's like, no, you know,
40:02
Speaker 1: it's okay. I understand, but you know, it's hard. You know,
40:05
Speaker 1: it's hard being in a situation like that. And unfortunately,
40:08
Speaker 1: families that have gone through something like that, if they're listening,
40:12
Speaker 1: they can relate to this. And because you know, you
40:15
Speaker 1: do become closer in so many ways because we did.
40:18
Speaker 1: And by the way, with the father too, it's like,
40:20
Speaker 1: you know, we have the father, the stepfather, and we
40:24
Speaker 1: became so close. But you know, as a couple, we
40:27
Speaker 1: became distant because my head was not there. You know,
40:31
Speaker 1: I just couldn't function and I was afraid that I
40:34
Speaker 1: slept upstairs and you know, Frank he and the moon downstairs,
40:36
Speaker 1: anything would happen, I wouldn't hear, so it just you know,
40:40
Speaker 1: it affected our relationship as a couple eventually.
40:44
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you talking about this. It is true
40:47
Speaker 2: you kind of alluded to this that when a family
40:50
Speaker 2: system goes through a trauma like that, it can often
40:53
Speaker 2: result in a divorce because the family system is as
40:58
Speaker 2: you knew that, it sort of obliteratedcommodate the trauma. I mean,
41:01
Speaker 2: and as a mother of a young son that you
41:05
Speaker 2: had another choice. Of of course, you were going to
41:07
Speaker 2: be by by his side. And you know, I often
41:10
Speaker 2: called it like the land of bad choices. You're either
41:13
Speaker 2: not with your son every moment, or you're not tending
41:16
Speaker 2: to your primary romantic relationship as you want to or should,
41:22
Speaker 2: and you have to prioritize your son, who's ailing at
41:25
Speaker 2: that time. But it's I'm glad we're having this dialogue because,
41:28
Speaker 2: like you were mentioning, of course you're in trauma, you're
41:30
Speaker 2: in crisis. You're not reflecting on the impact.
41:33
Speaker 1: My whole family was affected. I wasn't even focusing on
41:36
Speaker 1: my son Peter that also was crying out for help.
41:39
Speaker 1: It's like your whole family falls apart.
41:41
Speaker 2: That's right. And look, when trauma happens, it's going to
41:45
Speaker 2: have an impact and there's nothing we can do to
41:48
Speaker 2: pre prepare for it. But I like that we're talking
41:51
Speaker 2: about it because when someone is going through a chronic trauma,
41:56
Speaker 2: like I imagine you were, because the recovery I'm sure was extensive,
41:59
Speaker 2: you know, being able to include in your paradigm eventually
42:03
Speaker 2: when your system returns somewhat from fight or flight around like,
42:07
Speaker 2: what's happening to our overall family system? And how can
42:09
Speaker 2: I attend to it?
42:11
Speaker 1: And it wasn't even his biological son, even though he
42:14
Speaker 1: for him it was like his son, like Frankie was
42:16
Speaker 1: his son, but you know, so he was so good
42:18
Speaker 1: that it wasn't even like his biological son. And he
42:21
Speaker 1: was there just like the goad and you know, and
42:23
Speaker 1: that's not what we got divorced, you know. But like
42:25
Speaker 1: I said, when it was time to focus on my marriage,
42:28
Speaker 1: it was kind of like too late, yeah, because you know,
42:31
Speaker 1: I had saved Frankie. You know, I had saved my
42:34
Speaker 1: other son, Peter. I was trying to save my I
42:38
Speaker 1: had to save him. I was like, okay, like what
42:40
Speaker 1: about me? You know what I mean, it was like
42:42
Speaker 1: it was it was too too much. Yeah, And I've
42:45
Speaker 1: never gone to therapy that like fixed myself, like oh my,
42:48
Speaker 1: you know, like the kind of therapy. Actually just went
42:51
Speaker 1: to therapy once after my father passed away. That was
42:54
Speaker 1: really the first time in my life and it was
42:56
Speaker 1: really difficult. I was twenty three years old and I yeah,
43:02
Speaker 1: that to me was very very bad. It was my
43:04
Speaker 1: first trauma and that was really the only time that
43:06
Speaker 1: my mom's like I can't even help you, like I
43:08
Speaker 1: need to send you to psychiatrists and and whatnot. But
43:11
Speaker 1: back in the day didn't want that many therapists. There
43:13
Speaker 1: was more psychiatrists. You know, they would medicate you, which
43:15
Speaker 1: you know, my mom didn't want, so we never really
43:18
Speaker 1: did that. But it was it was tough.
43:21
Speaker 2: I'm I'm struck and impressed by your ability to self
43:26
Speaker 2: reflect and your level of insight. Not that therapy is
43:30
Speaker 2: the only way to get there, it's not, but you've
43:33
Speaker 2: really done some extensive, intentional, deliberate work. It's obvious from
43:37
Speaker 2: the way that you're talking about it.
43:39
Speaker 1: Well, thank you all. I like, if I would have
43:41
Speaker 1: met you, then maybe I would have gone to you,
43:43
Speaker 1: because I like it if you got back to me,
43:45
Speaker 1: I feel like I've gone I have tried it, but
43:48
Speaker 1: I felt like I go talk to Hillary and then
43:51
Speaker 1: I'm like pouring like my heart out and just talking
43:54
Speaker 1: and saying then it's you kind of like going back
43:57
Speaker 1: to that pain right that you lived and I don't
43:59
Speaker 1: want to we visit that pain again. I was there,
44:02
Speaker 1: I suffered it, I write about it, so I feel
44:04
Speaker 1: like I'm on the other side. And then, you know,
44:07
Speaker 1: we they want to know like since you started your childhood,
44:10
Speaker 1: what do you you know? And to me, I don't
44:12
Speaker 1: see like progress, And then I haven't had somebody like
44:14
Speaker 1: you that you know that communicates. Also like you're giving
44:17
Speaker 1: me you know, it's a conversation. You know. I feel
44:19
Speaker 1: like they're just like writing you want to know everything
44:21
Speaker 1: about me? And then I'm like, okay, well do you
44:24
Speaker 1: have anything to say, like what's wrong with me? Like
44:26
Speaker 1: how can you help me? Yeah?
44:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm actually really glad you're saying that,
44:31
Speaker 2: because I think one thing that you need to speaking
44:35
Speaker 2: about advocacy. You really need to be an advocate for yourself.
44:39
Speaker 2: If you're interested in therapy and you're pursuing a therapeutic connection,
44:43
Speaker 2: that interviewing therapists is okay and recommend it. You know,
44:47
Speaker 2: you really want to find someone that resonates with your
44:50
Speaker 2: particular style and that feels right, as you just alluded
44:54
Speaker 2: to you. Obviously, the goal is to go into things
44:56
Speaker 2: that are hard and painful, and there's quote right way
45:01
Speaker 2: for a therapist to operate, I mean, except obvious limits.
45:05
Speaker 2: But finding someone that works the way that makes you
45:08
Speaker 2: feel the most comfortable is really important. And interviewing one, two, three,
45:13
Speaker 2: four therapists is not only okay but recommend until you
45:16
Speaker 2: find someone that resonates. So I'm actually glad you brought
45:18
Speaker 2: that up.
45:20
Speaker 1: I'm happy to know that.
45:22
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that we got to talk today again. Yes,
45:27
Speaker 2: I hope we get to do another check and sometime soon.
45:30
Speaker 1: I feel like we need to. Now I'm more thank
45:33
Speaker 1: you for making me feel comfortable, and it was really
45:38
Speaker 1: nice talking to you.
45:39
Speaker 2: It was really nice talking to you too, Okay.
45:41
Speaker 1: Doctor Hillary. This has been incredible for me just to
45:45
Speaker 1: have a conversation and to get more clarity on what
45:49
Speaker 1: is important in life, what's important in my life, what's
45:51
Speaker 1: important in all you listeners that are listening, what's important
45:54
Speaker 1: in your life? Are you wanting to get clear on
45:57
Speaker 1: what you want and deserving your next relationship. We can
46:01
Speaker 1: help with that. Call us or email us. All the
46:03
Speaker 1: information is in the show notes. Follow us on socials.
46:07
Speaker 1: Make sure to rate and review the podcasts I Do
46:10
Speaker 1: Part two and iHeart podcasts. Or falling in love is
46:13
Speaker 1: the main objective