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Buffy the Vampire Slayer 101 · Pop Culture Junkie®

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♪ Entertain me, entertain me right now ♪
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- Hello and welcome back to the Pop Culture Junkie podcast.
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My name is Shauna and I am here with...
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Olivia.
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Hi Olivia.
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Hi.
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How are you doing today?
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- I am doing very well.
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I am so excited.
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I'm gonna come to Phoenix tomorrow
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and then I am gonna go all over the United States.
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I'm going coast to coast.
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I'm going in New York City and going to Upstate New York.
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So we are freeing the lows of capitalism
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for an entire week.
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It is amazing.
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- I love that.
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I know I'm excited that you're coming to Arizona
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and I get to see you at least for a night.
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We're gonna go offer some dinner.
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- Some pickle pizza.
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- Some pickle pizza.
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- Gluten free, of course.
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- I snagged a ticket today to the Black Parade.
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- Ooh, I mean, yes I did.
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- What are they playing in Phoenix?
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- They're about to play in Chase Field in Arizona,
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which is very strange, like the baseball arena.
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I've never been to a concert there.
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So here is to see what it will be like,
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but it's not until September 2026.
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So, one year from now.
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- Okay.
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(laughing)
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- Yeah, I am so excited.
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And I felt like if I didn't snag one
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that I was just gonna miss out
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and they were just gonna get way too expensive
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'cause they were already crazy expensive today.
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So I'm a little high up,
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but I never, I realized I didn't like
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talk about it with anybody.
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So I just put one thing in the middle.
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- Oh, that's amazing.
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- So I'm just gonna go,
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oh my god, my chemical romance.
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We got Lady Gaga.
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- Yeah. - It's amazing.
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- I know I'm so excited.
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Like now I just need AFI to come to town
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and I'm gonna be all excited.
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- So you can see them from a hundredth time.
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I know I've seen them so many times
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and I still wanna see them more.
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- So do you think you've seen more ghost or AFI?
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- Oh, it's getting close.
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I feel like at this point, probably AFI,
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but it's getting close.
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I've seen my chemical,
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this will be the third time I've seen my chem.
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I've seen Lady Gaga like five times too.
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So I see all of my favorite things,
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a whole aren't.
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And speaking of favorite things.
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Today, we're gonna take a look at an older TV show
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that I don't think we've ever talked about before.
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- Never mentioned, never mentioned.
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- It's called Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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- I've never heard of it.
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- Ever heard of it?
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- Never heard of it.
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So we have mentioned it a lot on the show,
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but we have never done an entire episode
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devoted to Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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It is a show that took the world by storm
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well part of the world anyway.
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Back in 1997, almost 30 years ago.
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And the Buffy verse, I know.
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- Whoa.
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- And the Buffy verse didn't collapse when the show ended.
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There is more Buffy to look forward to.
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So we are gonna do Buffy the Vampire Slayer 101 today.
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I am dressed to the part if you were watching on video.
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I have my Buffy in spike shirt.
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- Ah, looks so good.
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- I feel like before we dive into
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what I've been calling the Buffy for beginners.
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- Yeah, I'm gonna give you a little bit of
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Shana and Olivia Lomar.
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So love that.
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- Yeah, so love that.
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- The COVID times.
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It was technically 2021, but we're also living
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in that world.
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- Yeah.
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- And Shana is serving me some ciders.
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And I start talking about how I'm rewatching Buffy
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the Vampire Slayer.
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And of course, it was just an instant love affair
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from there, but one of the early ways that Shana and I
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became really close friends was talking about
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our shared love for Buffy.
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So we think that Buffy is amazing.
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Buffy starts amazing friendships and amazing podcasts.
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So totally great.
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- Totally great.
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- I wanted to bring you guys like, okay,
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what is the show for 1997?
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If you've never seen it, it is truly amazing.
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And I mean, it started our mutual love for Sarah
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Michelle Geller.
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- Yeah.
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- As just the iconic 90s television and movie queen.
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Like, oh my gosh, she's amazing.
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- Absolutely great.
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- It is funny sometimes when I tell people like,
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oh my dog's name is Buffy, they'll be like,
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after the Vampire Slayer and then I go, yeah,
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that's right, best show of all time.
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Or if I tell people my favorite show of all time's
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but for the Vampire Slayer.
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Most of the time people think it's cool,
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but then every once in a while you'll get like younger people
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who are like, never seen it.
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Like everyone's like, yeah.
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And I'm like, oh my God, you have to watch it.
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Okay.
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So the basics of Buffy the Vampire Slayer,
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let's start there.
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So Buffy the Vampire Slayer is an American,
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supernatural drama, horror fantasy,
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coming of age series that originally aired from 1997 to 2003.
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I didn't watch it for the first time until I was in college
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between 2007 to 2011.
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- Really?
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- Yeah, my roommate Jessica and I watched it together
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from beginning to end in college when we lived together
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in our apartment and we immediately became obsessed
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and then watched Angel immediately after.
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Did you watch it while that was airing on TV?
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- Yeah, so I actually watched it with my dad.
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And my dad is notorious for letting me watch things
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that I absolutely should not have been watching.
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I saw the poltergeist when I was five.
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Oh my God, me too.
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That would be terrifying.
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It's a child.
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Oh my God.
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But yeah, so I would watch it with him.
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We would also watch Angel,
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which is like a spin off series
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from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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But we would watch it together.
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Of course my dad was like, oh she saw it, you know,
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like Sophie was watching it and I was like,
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yeah, I wanna see it in the entire.
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So I feel like I would watch it on,
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it was like a syndicated show for a long time.
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So even though it ended in 2003,
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like it was on TV all the time,
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I think I probably caught like onto it in the later seasons
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just because, you know, I don't know how much I was retaining it
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at four years old.
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Yeah.
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I do remember watching it with my dad all the time
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and Angel as well.
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So I was probably like seven.
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Oh my God, that is so cute.
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He was like, you first started watching it.
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And I loved that.
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It's funny.
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I talked to my dad about it where I'm like,
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oh yeah, like I love the show.
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We would always watch it together and he was like, what?
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He doesn't remember all of your memories.
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It's Sarah Michelle Geller.
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Hot.
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Hot.
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That's it.
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Hot.
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You know, and I don't blame him for that.
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Nope, they're about gorgeous.
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Yeah.
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It's funny.
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It's like a corn memory for me and my dad watching shows.
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And he's like, I don't remember that fucking thing about that.
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Thanks dad.
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Yeah.
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You know, most dad things there.
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No, that's yeah.
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It was, I mean, like just such iconic television, I think they were scary looking vampires too.
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Like they were really looking vampires.
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The makeup effects, like the beginning, the effects get better as the show goes on.
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And it is definitely a product of its time.
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So some of it doesn't quite live up today.
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But they were scary vampires.
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The show has that perfect level between being scary, being romantic, being really funny.
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So it was created by Joss Whedon who served as the show runner, especially early on.
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So the TV series is based on a 1992 film of the same name, which was also written by
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Joss Whedon, but start Christy Swanson as Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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And it was definitely a lot different than the show ended up being.
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It's a lot cheesier.
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I like the movie.
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I think it's fine.
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They're very different products from each other.
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I see them as very stand alone, which they are.
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And I think that was Whedon's first shot at light.
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I have this idea.
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I want to try making it.
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And then he did and was like, that didn't quite hit the mark if I wanted.
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I'd actually do this how I see it in my head.
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But it's a cute movie.
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Yeah.
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I think it makes sense why the movie wouldn't necessarily work.
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I do think coming a page is quite perfect for it.
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Where you see these characters come through out.
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And what makes them so good is their growth and their silliness.
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And it's hard to--
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The character development for sure.
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Yeah.
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And the original film that doesn't have a super scary villain and like a good tied-in-a-bow
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ending.
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But part of what makes the Buffy the Vampire the show so good is it's ongoing.
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And there's all these different like supernatural creatures that you're ultimately trying to deal
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with.
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And it is serious.
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It has serious topics within it as well.
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But it has this like sarcastic like punchy humor as well.
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Oh my gosh.
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The Buffy speak is so funny.
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Let's get to the cast and the key characters before we get too deep into the themes.
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Yeah, right.
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Exactly.
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So the show features an ensemble cast.
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The central figure is obviously Buffy Summers.
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It's played by Sarah Michelle Geller.
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Honestly, I could never imagine someone else in that role.
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Oh my god.
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There was before it.
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Perfect.
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We have a Rupert Giles, which is Anthony Stewart Head, Buffy's Watcher and Mentor.
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We have Willow Rosenberg, who is Alice in Hanigan.
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And she is Buffy's best friend and eventually a rich lesbian witch.
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And Zander Harris, Nicholas Brendan, another core friend.
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He kind of functions as like this every man in supernatural stakes.
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He is very much like the but of the joke because he's a man, but he's the least powerful
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and the least capable.
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And then we have a lot of reoccurring characters like Angel, Spike, Safe, Dawn, ultimately, but
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it is so many people that you know and recognize from the 90s and then Seth Green, of course.
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So there are so many different characters within it and people who came to the show.
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We actually saw Pedro Cascale in the show as well.
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It's like the first major act in real.
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Yes.
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And it's got Pedro Bascale.
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So if you've ever seen that meme, that's where it is from.
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Fine.
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Very hot.
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So Buffy ran for seven seasons with 144 episodes, which is insane.
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And then did have this spin-off show Angel, which ran for five seasons.
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Towards the end, they did kind of run overlapping with each other.
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So Buffy shows up in one episode of Angel.
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Angel kind of shows up in Buffy.
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She is a staple for the first three seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and her main love
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interest.
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The show did start in the WB network, the one with the dancing frog, the Millennials,
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that core memory.
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Missed that frog.
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Hello, my baby.
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Better times.
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Better times.
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And then after season five, after we're going to have a little studio that is for Buffy the
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Vampire Slayer in here.
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After Buffy dies, quote, unquote dies, it moves from 2UPN for season six and seven.
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And all of their promos were like Buffy rises again on a new network.
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And based on the Chromas.
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Yeah, ultimately you really cannot.
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I mean, that's good marketing.
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That's good time.
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That's good marketing.
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Perfection.
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And the show itself is set in a fictional Southern California town called Sunnydale, which is situated
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atop a Hellmouse, which is a locus of like mystical energy that draws in supernatural like
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threats and creatures.
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And Buffy is in a line of Slayer.
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So Slayers are technically young women with enhanced strength, refuxes and healing.
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And they are kind of predestined to fight vampires, demons and other supernatural dangers.
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And to the definition of Slayer is born.
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Yeah, we'll protect the world.
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And then somehow it's like, well, there's multiple.
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There are a few like Nundrins where we get multiple Slayer is because Buffy dies like
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multiple times throughout the show.
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Right.
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Exactly.
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So it's quite funny.
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And Buffy, it doesn't go at a loan.
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For every Slayer, they are guided by a watcher, which is Giles within the show.
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And sexy.
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She's assisted by her friends, almost like her Scooby Gang, which is funny because Sarah
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Michelle Keller later did Scooby-Doo.
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And they call themselves in the show The Scooby Gang or The Scooby is.
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She was really fortuitous on the end of her future acting gigs there, but they kind of get,
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you know, just like the Scooby Gang get involved in her antics and really do bring a lot to
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the story.
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And it is really kind of like a monster of the week show.
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Yeah.
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And there are episodes with like season long arcs as well of like a big bad, but really you
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kind of get introduced to these new creatures and people that Buffy needs to fight.
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Yes.
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So every season does have one big bad.
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So it's like one main bad guy or bad girl that Buffy has to defeat by the finale.
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But then along the way, she does have like those smaller monster of the week kind of villains.
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In the beginning, a lot of them are vampires.
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And she does fight a lot of vampires throughout the course of the show, like the title would
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imply.
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But there is demons.
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She fights gods.
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She fights little creatures from the Black Lagoon and income mummy girl of fish man, a pack
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of hyenas.
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She used to love it.
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There's an episode.
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But things like steel hearts.
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Yes.
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The government, the literal government.
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Yeah.
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We need the force of all evil on the entire universe.
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Also the government.
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Also the government.
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Also the government.
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So now that we've laid the foundation for what Buffy the Vampire Slayer is, we're going
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to get more into themes after this quick break.
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Before we get into any more of the Buffy lore, let's do a little podcast business first.
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We would love for you to join our Patreon.
14:43
One sheep is hell subscription to our podcast goes a long way to help us bring you these
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14:51
We offer personalized shout out a sneak peek at our PCJ pop episodes.
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And for a little bit more, you can get a link to our uncensored videos from our regular
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episodes.
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You can go to patreon.com/popculturejunkiepodcast and subscribe right there.
15:09
Okay.
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So let's talk about some major themes in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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So Buffy is more than vampires in demon fights.
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Its resonance comes from layered themes, strong characters and emotional honesty.
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So we're going to break down some of the overarching themes that are seen throughout the
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series.
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The first one that I'll touch on is adolescence and the identity as horror metaphor.
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So we didn't even have self framed Buffy as quote, "my so-called life mixed with ex-files."
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It is the trials of adolescence, social angst, identity, isolation, all kind of expressed
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through the metaphor of monsters.
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There is a girl in the first season who feels so unseen that she becomes invisible.
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Buffy starts to hear voices in one of the episodes and she thinks that she hears one of her
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classmates planning on shooting up the school but come to find out he wanted to kill himself.
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So in mixed in there is a lot of humor and laughs but it's a lot of just very strong metaphors
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for what you go through in high school.
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I'm an overarching theme, at least in those first three seasons where they're all in high
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school together is, high school is hell.
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Their high school is literally sitting on top of the mouth to hell.
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I actually visited the high school that Buffy the Vampire Slayer was filmed at.
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It's Torrent's high school in Torrent's California and then it was to know Buffy from.
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It was so fun and we snuck to Kila in drinking just like through a high school prom.
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I know we were like in our cute little prom dresses and we were in the bathroom smoking
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and drinking to Kila and these girls came in and they're like, "We came into smoke and drink
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too."
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I got this release high school.
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The idea of high school is hell is explicit.
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Teenage struggle, identity, social pressures, growing up in literal battlegrounds.
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There is emotional pain throughout the series.
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Loss and betrayal.
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A lot of romance, people finding love, losing love, battling with addiction, willow battles
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with addiction and it's very strongly implied that it's like metaphor for drug addiction.
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She goes to like a drug house with an employee but in the show she's battling addiction to
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magic and has her friends after she hits rock bottom kind of helpful or out of that.
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There's even rape dealt with in a couple episodes which is very controversial but there's
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a lot of heavy themes really mixed in with the laughs and the vampires.
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Yeah and I think it was a lot of this.
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I could so important to remember and like this is 1997 to 2003 and this is on cable television.
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Buffy really was so provocative for this time.
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Now we look back and we're like, "Oh wow, this is basic.
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Like feminism 101."
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Yeah.
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But at its core, like Buffy was such a female empowerment show and really like a feminist
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retelling.
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I mean, Josh Weeden himself has a lot of issues but he did bright, strong female characters
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and give voice to that.
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So at its heart, I would really say like Buffy is a subversion of this trope of damsel
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indistress ultimately, right?
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And the show is really centered around her story and becoming a person and navigating
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such intense pressure on her to save people and be the person and we look at a mirroring
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of her with Zander.
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And she is kind of like this dumb idiot who's incapable, but Buffy is so strong and a leader
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in that.
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And Zander isn't all bad but he is quite big dumb.
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He's what I would describe the most.
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Zander's big dumb.
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He does have his moments especially he says, "You know, when I'm alone and I'm afraid, all
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I think to myself is what would Buffy do and that gives me strength."
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Yeah.
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And Buffy feels that intense pressure especially she alone will save the world from vampires
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and demons.
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So even if she has her friends around her, the responsibility lives and dies with her,
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which is why she gives up her life for the world so many times.
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Yeah.
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And we see a lot of different types of strength within the female characters.
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Like they're not all one-know.
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So you see it through Willow, you see it through Pay, you see it through Buffy.
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Even Dawn.
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Yeah.
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Dawn as well.
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There's so many different people like women.
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I think that's why it is really resonated with so many women throughout 30 years of it
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being a show because it was such an early introduction too.
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You can do it.
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You can save yourself and you can have friends and have a feeling like.
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I totally agree.
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I think that Buffy is a feminist show.
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There are parts of it that are problematic.
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Absolutely.
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There's things that don't age very well from 1000 and whatever to the 2000s.
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Like most things from the 90s.
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Yeah.
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So you will watch some episodes back and go, "Oh, they really need to fight that thing."
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Like, did they really need to say that?
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But I think at its core, it reminds me of sex in the city, like the feminism up the time.
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This is a woman paving her own way, doing her best.
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She's not perfect.
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But she's my favorite television character at all time.
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There's friendship, chosen family, and sacrifice.
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So the Scooby Gang, they aren't background characters.
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It's really an ensemble cast.
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They have Bonnance, Conflicts, Loyalty Issues, Sacrifices, Buffy literally sacrifices
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her life to save her sister who only becomes her sister in season five.
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It's very strange.
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I want to watch it.
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Are you going to show Tracto Bird?
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Oh, I know.
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And she was so wonderful in that role.
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So Buffy has to make a lot of choices that are hard.
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Protect your friends, protect the world.
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Sometimes sacrifice personal relationships.
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She literally kills Angel, and she loves him so much.
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But she does it because she knows that she has to.
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And that is just like the responsibility that should never be with a teenage girl, but
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it lies with Buffy, the shows in one.
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Yeah.
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And of course, in most things, we've referenced a few different characters dying, but death
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grieving in trauma are really within the show.
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But it is not just like Scooby Doo, where everybody lives and everybody's happy.
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And it's not always really neatly folded up.
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Either there are some permanent losses.
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Others like the survivors.
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You still see those echoes of individuals.
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And season six is often cited as quite dark.
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And we see a lot of those themes within the later seasons as they leave high school and
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they become older and start to see really what the cost of living is, I guess.
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Yeah, I've read a really good novel called Into Every Generation.
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And it really breaks down season by season.
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And season six is definitely known as the darkest Buffy season.
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So much that they kind of had to like, all right, season seven, we got to get people laughing
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and smiling again because season six was so depressing.
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It is my favorite season.
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I love season six.
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And Buffy is reeling from the death of her mother.
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And when I was in college and watched that for the first time, I had just lost my mother.
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And I related to Buffy so much with feeling like she had to be the one in charge of her
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family.
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She had to be the one to pick up the pieces.
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She barely had time to grieve because she had so much responsibility on her.
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And yeah, there's just, there's a lot of permanent deaths.
23:02
Joss Whedon is not afraid to kill his characters.
23:05
And like a lot of his shows.
23:08
R.R.R. Martin.
23:10
Yeah.
23:11
Don't get too comfortable like with a favorite character if you're watching a Joss Whedon
23:15
product because they might die.
23:18
There's also the themes of power, destiny and free will.
23:21
So Buffy is the chosen one, but it also raises an ongoing question for her.
23:26
How much of her life is really her own?
23:28
How much is destiny?
23:30
Can she really make her own choices?
23:31
Or is she just forced to, you know, be the slayer?
23:35
She really falls back into it a lot and let the later seasons actually become an adult.
23:39
But those first few seasons, she's like, I don't want to go on date.
23:42
So I'm going to go to the mall.
23:43
I want to be able to sleep vampires.
23:46
Damn.
23:47
Yeah, I can't even imagine like if you came to me and were like, you have to start fighting
23:53
vampires at like 15 to be like, I'm going to go smoke some weed.
23:58
Yeah, it's about no.
24:00
I'm about to.
24:01
Buffy the vampire slayer, really like we mentioned was so ahead of its time.
24:11
And it was one of actually the first shows with representation for LGBTQ themes.
24:17
There is a lesbian relationship within it between Willow and Tara.
24:22
And I wasn't the first kiss of two women on network television.
24:28
But the first on-string kiss, then it was in the episode where Buffy's mom dies.
24:34
And it was just the most comforting, they're comforting each other.
24:38
It is the most beautiful kiss.
24:39
Yep.
24:40
First kiss of a lesbian couple.
24:42
Yeah, which sounds today so odd, but you know, really it was so groundbreaking back then.
24:49
And ultimately like we needed that representation.
24:52
Yeah.
24:53
And as well, we also we often had like a fade to black or a hint hint, not not.
25:00
If you look closely, you'll understand that these people are in a relationship.
25:05
But Buffy really flipped its on its head.
25:07
I mean, John, I mentioned that they were talking about a school shooting.
25:12
Yeah.
25:13
And so there's so many of these taboo topics that Buffy paved the way to really seeing a lot
25:20
of those deeper themes in a show like this, ultimately like a network television show.
25:27
And so they really go into all of these cultural issues of gender, power, escape voting, social
25:34
norms, exclusion, and the sense of like otherness throughout it.
25:40
And you know, what's what's funny is one of the first vampire stories ever written Carmella
25:46
really is a allegory for lesbianism and justice.
25:52
And sure as to.
25:53
Yes.
25:54
And a lot of the time we see these themes within vampire stories as well.
26:00
Very sapphic.
26:01
Yeah.
26:02
And I really love that they brought that in because I think it was, you know, in like the 1500s
26:08
where Carmella was first brought into it and it was a theme for that.
26:12
But it'll quote me on the year.
26:14
I love you with the history fun.
26:17
No, I totally agree.
26:19
I know.
26:20
Also in a book that I read by Evan Ross cats.
26:24
So the into every generation.
26:26
I love him.
26:27
He is one of my favorite like influencers.
26:30
He's a Sarah Michelle Geller historian.
26:32
But he talks about how Buffy coming out to her mom is the slayer is really an allegory
26:39
for like coming out to your parents.
26:41
Yes.
26:42
And so much like it was just mind blowing reading this where it was like, are you sure you're
26:48
a slayer?
26:49
Have you ever tried not being one?
26:52
And she's like, this is my mom being that's.
26:55
I've never tried not slaying vampires.
26:59
And like, you know, our mom eventually has to come to terms with this as her daughter
27:04
is.
27:05
And you know, we see her later like, will you be slaying tonight?
27:09
Like being kind of like, hesitantly accepting of it.
27:12
And it's just it's all yeah, definitely an allegory for you think coming out.
27:16
Also a Buffy fun first, the use of the word Google as a verb for the first time on television
27:24
was but for the vampire slayer.
27:26
And it was my love saying, I'm going to Google it.
27:31
That's very well.
27:32
Very well.
27:33
That is so well.
27:34
So while I misspoke Carmilla is from 1872.
27:38
A lot of Olivia.
27:39
A couple years off.
27:40
Everybody knows that.
27:42
Everybody knows that.
27:44
Everybody knows that.
27:45
Everybody knows that.
27:46
God knows.
27:47
Everybody knows that.
27:48
So why are we both still obsessed with Buffy, the vampire slayer?
27:55
What is it now?
27:56
21 years after it went off to the air.
27:59
Why before we get into some of the reasons that, you know, we kind of researched, why do
28:03
you still love up to the vampire slayer?
28:05
Yeah.
28:06
I think there is a sense of nostalgia.
28:09
Like I said, I grew up watching the show with my dad.
28:14
I do find myself really loving strong female characters and not like one note, strong female
28:22
characters.
28:23
They have struggles and strife and they make the wrong decisions but ultimately at the
28:29
end of the day, they want to do the right thing.
28:32
They help the greater good in some sense.
28:36
And I do think that it's just, I mean, Sarah Michelle Gallery, so good in it.
28:43
It is the right amount of serious but silly and you can really watch an episode and no
28:53
thoughts just vibes or you can really dig in to these greater themes within it.
28:59
And yeah, I mean, I think that the chemistry that everyone has on that show is just top
29:04
note.
29:05
What about you?
29:06
I think it's the perfect mix of scary.
29:10
Like I'm always kind of in a Halloween vibe mood and Buffy is perfect for that, especially
29:16
the Halloween episodes.
29:17
I've ever been watching those every year.
29:18
But it's romantic.
29:20
It's laugh out loud, funny.
29:22
There's action.
29:24
It's really like relatable.
29:26
Like I relate to Buffy a lot.
29:28
Like I already mentioned and just kind of growing up and becoming a woman and having
29:33
so much responsibility on your shoulders, but still just wanting to vibe and have fun
29:37
with your friends sometimes and go on dates and I don't know, I just, I love it.
29:43
It is definitely my comfort show where it's, you know, people always say like the office
29:46
is my comfort show.
29:48
Nope.
29:49
You know, that's fine too.
29:50
Everybody has like their show that they put on minus Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Sex
29:54
in the City.
29:55
That's my comfort shows.
29:57
Great show.
29:58
Great, great show.
29:59
So for me, fans, Buffy is tied to their formative years emotional attachment like you said and
30:04
kind of nostalgia.
30:05
There is that rich world.
30:07
There's an expanded universe.
30:08
There are comic books that came out which probably won't be can anymore now that the
30:13
sequel show has been announced, but that's fine because I didn't really like the comic
30:17
books anyway.
30:19
In such a strong community around Buffy, there's fan fiction.
30:23
There's fan arts.
30:24
There's message boards.
30:26
There's comic cons where people are still lining up to meet the actors and these actors
30:32
that are on Buffy are still so in love with the show.
30:37
Like, Sarah Schell-Geller went years without she didn't want to talk about it.
30:41
She didn't want to be interviewed about it.
30:43
She didn't really go any cons.
30:45
And over the last like 10 years or so, she's really like leaned into being like, you know
30:49
what?
30:50
I am Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
30:51
That is me.
30:52
This was so formative to me in my career.
30:55
Yeah.
30:56
And, you know, I do feel like a lot of that was the issues that the cast had with Josh
31:04
Sweden.
31:05
Ultimately, it came out that, you know, it was in the 90s and 2000s, the power that a
31:13
showrunner and producer and writer really had back then was quite unchecked.
31:19
And there were some very toxic dynamics.
31:22
And I do think after Sarah Michelle Geller came out and spoke about that, she was able to
31:27
like, refine this love for Buffy almost.
31:31
And be like, okay, that is our show.
31:33
It is not Josh's show.
31:35
And her ultimately, I think that it's been really, really beautiful.
31:41
And Sarah Michelle Geller, I mean, there's no Buffy without her.
31:44
And she really wanted to bring Buffy back only if there was a good time and a good story
31:51
and a good way to tell that.
31:53
Yeah.
31:54
I think that is so important to talk about the shots of it all.
31:58
Charisma Carpenter was really the first person.
32:01
Let me back up.
32:02
It was actually Ray Fisher who first came out against Josh Sweden and spoke about his negative
32:08
experiences working with him on the set of the Justice League.
32:12
Ray Fisher played cyborg and set that Josh Sweden was created a toxic work environment that
32:18
he was abusive, verbally, borderline racist, right, like just a bad person to work with.
32:24
Charisma Carpenter who played Cordelia Chase in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel then
32:30
came out and said that she also had a very negative working experience with Josh Sweden.
32:36
Fans of the show will know that Cordelia went on to have an arc in the Angel series that
32:43
ended very negatively for her character.
32:46
She was such a beloved character and they really butchered her.
32:49
And come to find out behind the scenes, Josh Sweden was doing that to punish Charisma Carpenter
32:54
allegedly for becoming pregnant and he thought running the show.
33:00
So he wrote her off in a very disgusting way on the show that really left a bad taste
33:06
in fans' mouths and in Charisma's.
33:08
So once they both released these statements, basically the entire cast of Buffy came out
33:13
and supported them, which was really nice to see.
33:16
And Amber Benson and Michelle Trachtenberg also both released statements about how toxic
33:20
it was.
33:22
So it's hard, you know, we talk on the show about separating the art from the artist.
33:27
And I think with Buffy, there are so many other producers and creators and actors behind
33:34
the scenes and writers that it's not just Josh Sweden, right?
33:39
So yeah.
33:40
It's heartbreaking, especially as a mega fan to find out that he sucks.
33:46
Well, yeah, it's hard to marry it with someone who writes strong characters and strong female
33:54
characters.
33:55
Yes.
33:56
His ex-wife wrote about him just being a terrible husband cheating on her, being a womanizer.
34:01
And we're like, oh, for years we all thought he was such a simonist icon.
34:07
I feel like that really ultimately is very similar to my thoughts on Harry Potter as well,
34:14
where, you know, those, I do think there's a lot to be said.
34:18
And we've talked about this at length on the podcast of once a piece of art is in the
34:23
world, it is no longer the artist, right?
34:26
Yeah.
34:27
And that could be it for anything.
34:28
People will interpret it differently and do that.
34:31
And so when it's something that raised a generation, it is very hard to walk away from it.
34:38
But yeah, yeah, ultimately he is not a great person, but he did bring some of our most beloved
34:45
characters through through his writing.
34:48
Yes.
34:49
And after this break, we will talk about how the Buffy Legacy is carrying on.
34:58
So if Buffy has endured for decades, it only makes sense that the story might continue.
35:04
And today in 2025, that continuation is in fact underway.
35:10
So there is a new project.
35:12
It is a sequel, not a reboot.
35:14
So don't let anyone tell you differently.
35:16
So the new Buffy project is being developed for Hulu.
35:20
And most importantly, Sarah Michelle Geller is going to be involved.
35:25
She is going to be Buffy again and she is going to be an executive producer.
35:31
I am so nervous.
35:33
I have dreams.
35:35
I've had ongoing dreams for years of like them, like I'm making a season eight of what it
35:43
would be and who would come back.
35:46
And I am just nervous that it's going to be to Teeny Popper and the new lead, I'm sure
35:53
she's going to be wonderful.
35:54
And her name is Ryan Kira Armstrong.
35:58
She's cast as the new lean slayer.
36:00
Buffy is probably going to be more of a leadership mentor kind of situation.
36:07
But there are definitely a lot of actors and characters that we probably won't see return.
36:13
Yep.
36:14
First and foremost, Miss Shelter Acton Bird tragically passed away earlier in 2025.
36:20
She played Buffy's little sister in the original series and would absolutely have come back for
36:24
this.
36:25
For Miss Sarah Michelle Geller, we're very close.
36:28
Nicholas Brinton has also had a lot of legal troubles.
36:31
Doesn't act anymore.
36:33
Is on the not a great guy.
36:36
No, definitely a lot of domestic assault charges against him.
36:41
My favorite character in Buffy vs. Besides Buffy is Spike.
36:48
And James Marster is Bush and 60.
36:51
If not already there, same with David Boreon as he played Angel.
36:56
Unless we get some great D aging technology, not sure how involved they're going to be
37:01
there.
37:02
Yeah.
37:03
They're going to put themselves in a hole with that whole immortal thing.
37:06
That whole not aging thing, which is so funny because James Marster is very clearly
37:10
ages from like season two of Buffy to season five of Angel.
37:15
So it's different in him and Angel just look the same.
37:18
They're both gorgeous.
37:20
But yeah, how do you feel about this new series?
37:22
Are you like me and excited but nervous?
37:25
Yeah.
37:27
I feel like most of the time my thought is I don't really want a continuation.
37:34
Like any of my old shows where I'm like if it was a finished storyline, it's a finished
37:41
storyline, right?
37:42
Like a lot of the time.
37:44
We saw some early stills of her filming and Buffy goes business.
37:51
Yeah, I know.
37:52
You're still was going on.
37:54
Why is she serving like Buffy never wore a salad?
37:59
I mean, Buffy had some of the most iconic fashion ever.
38:02
I literally Buffy is like my whole Pinterest board.
38:05
Oh my god.
38:06
Your award drop is Buffy's closet.
38:08
No, Buffy's absolutely a fashionista.
38:10
We can definitely do a breakdown of all of the iconic Buffy outfits.
38:14
She definitely never wore like still letters.
38:18
She wears like a...
38:19
But she was beyond, you know?
38:21
How would someone who had a sense of fashion grow up?
38:24
But yeah, the blazer took me out.
38:27
I needed like a leather trench in there.
38:30
Yes.
38:31
Yes.
38:32
But I love that you put my outfit.
38:33
My closet is Buffy because that's the ultimate compliment.
38:37
So I am optimistic.
38:40
I do think that Sarah Michelle Keller would...
38:44
With her being an executive producer, that there is a sense of love and responsibility to
38:50
that character where she's not going to let it be bad.
38:54
I think that this newsletter ultimately has some crazy shoes to fill.
39:00
And so I'm wary but excited, I guess.
39:04
I will definitely watch it like when in just like that was announced.
39:08
I was like, no way am I watching.
39:10
I never knew it was a single episode.
39:12
It was so bad.
39:13
It was so bad.
39:14
That makes me nervous.
39:15
I mean, I agree.
39:16
If Sarah Michelle Keller was...
39:17
But you tried to gasp like me into saying in just like that is good.
39:21
Okay.
39:22
That show was so bad that it was good until the very end and then the finale was fucking
39:27
bad.
39:28
Like I can't even say it was so bad.
39:29
It was good.
39:30
It was just overall bad.
39:31
Yeah.
39:32
It was just what kept getting worse.
39:34
It was bad.
39:35
But so I agree.
39:37
If Sarah Michelle Keller was not involved, I would be a lot more nervous.
39:41
But because she is involved, I agree.
39:43
She's got that love for the character.
39:45
And she did come out and say, you know, I wouldn't have done this.
39:48
If the script wasn't right, if the timing wasn't right, a lot of the producers are coming
39:52
back not just Whedon.
39:54
He is not involved anymore.
39:56
We do have Gail Berman, Frank Huzai and Kaz Tuzai who are all original, exactly.
40:03
Yeah.
40:04
I'm optimistic.
40:05
I'll give in a few episodes for them to really impress me.
40:12
But I am a purist.
40:13
Like if you mess up and do a reboot or continuation, like I'm not going to love that most of the time.
40:21
And so they've got a few episodes just out of love.
40:24
But if it isn't there, then I feel like I am legally required to watch the entire thing.
40:31
I mean, if you watched all of it and just like that, yeah, you are.
40:35
Like, for example, I'm still to the stage, never seen increment too.
40:42
You don't need to.
40:43
I've never seen Zoolayne too for the same reason because Zoolayne was like one of my favorite
40:47
comedies of all.
40:48
I don't know if you could do that.
40:50
I'm not going to ruin it for your cash grab.
40:53
But I will watch Buffy.
40:55
So what would you say if you had to give someone listening to this episode who's never
41:01
dipped to their toes, what episode are we sending them into?
41:05
We've given you an exhaustive breakdown of the general premise.
41:08
But this is a little one to see.
41:10
Do I like these?
41:11
This silly little monster show.
41:13
Oh my God, there are so many iconic episodes of this show.
41:18
We, for just sake of time, are going to pick one each, but just know that there is an intense
41:24
and sad amount of, yeah, commission to us.
41:26
We have a very, very hard time picking one to talk about each.
41:31
And I'm like, I like, anytime someone asks me, what's your favorite?
41:34
I somehow end up giving like 50 options.
41:37
So I know.
41:38
My favorite episode isn't the one that I'm going to mention.
41:41
My favorite episode of Buffy, I think, is Tabula Rasa in season six, where Willow does
41:47
spell to try to make Tara forget that they got in a fight, but accidentally erases everyone's
41:53
memories.
41:54
I do love that one.
41:55
Yeah.
41:56
Willow, amnesia.
41:57
Yeah, I love an amnesia episode.
41:59
I don't think it's great for first timers because you need to know these characters to know
42:03
why it's funny that they lost their memories.
42:05
Otherwise, you're like, what's so different about this?
42:08
But I love that episode.
42:10
The episode that I will say for you have to like musicals to like this episode, I'm going
42:17
to talk about the iconic Buffy the Vampire Slayer musical episode.
42:21
What's more with feeling?
42:23
Buffy goes to Glee.
42:25
Yeah, but it makes so much sense.
42:27
So it's the seventh episode of the sixth season.
42:30
It is one of the best reviewed musical episodes of any series.
42:35
And I think it's because it makes sense within the show.
42:40
So Xander ends up accidentally summoning a demon that makes everybody sing and dance.
42:49
It's so good.
42:50
It's so iconic.
42:51
I love musical episodes.
42:53
Do you remember when even Stevens did that?
42:55
Oh, we went to the moon.
42:57
In 1969, I loved that.
43:00
Yeah.
43:01
It's so good.
43:02
It's so good.
43:03
I love a musical episode.
43:05
And in this one, it makes sense why they're all singing and dancing.
43:08
But if they sing and dance for too long, they spontaneously can bust and die.
43:13
So Buffy has to stop this.
43:15
You can't.
43:16
But along the way, there are a lot of musical numbers.
43:19
So all of the cast members get to kind of tell their internal feelings through song.
43:25
So Buffy talks about her struggles being the Slayer, coming back from the grave.
43:31
Dawn briefly talks about feeling left out, Tara and Willow are in love.
43:37
And Anya are having relationship issues.
43:41
And Spike, first of all, okay, I haven't asked you this yet.
43:45
Are you team Spike and Buffy or Angel and Buffy?
43:49
So when I was young, I was Angel and Buffy.
43:53
And then now that I'm hardened by the world, I'm Spike and Buffy.
43:57
I am so team Spike and Buffy.
44:00
No hate to Angel and Buffy fans.
44:03
They are iconic.
44:04
But I am a Spike and Buffy girl.
44:06
I look me bad boy.
44:07
And as I age, I kind of respect Riley some more.
44:10
Oh, yes.
44:11
Okay, that's what we, okay, Sean and I had like a crazy debate about this.
44:17
I was like, I think the hottest is Riley.
44:20
Even to this day, Mark Bluckis is so fun.
44:25
He's so fun.
44:27
But yeah, Riley in the show is giving, I mean, he's giving top.
44:32
Yeah.
44:33
So we don't love that part of Riley, but--
44:36
No, he really does love her.
44:38
And they're just not a right fit.
44:40
Yes.
44:41
But I think that, you know, he probably went on and we see him in a later episode, even
44:45
on a guy called Fall in Love.
44:47
But like, just as for Riley, I hated it when I first watched the show.
44:51
Yeah, and they do a good job at it.
44:53
Yeah, so this is the once more feeling is right.
44:56
It like the climax of when Buffy and Spike is like that sexual will they want their
45:00
attention and it's for the first time in this episode.
45:05
And I remember watching this with Jessica and just screaming and rewinding the TV over and
45:11
over again to watch them kiss.
45:13
Yeah, so I will absolutely say give this episode a watch.
45:18
If you hate musicals, then maybe don't, but like it is just so good.
45:21
Oh, so no, I'm not like a musical person, but it is so good.
45:25
Everyone sings really well too.
45:26
Like everyone has a great singing voice.
45:28
Yeah.
45:29
I'm going to recommend the episode Hush.
45:33
It is season four episode 10.
45:36
It came out in 1999.
45:38
When I think of Buffy, this is like one of the like first things that that comes to mind.
45:44
Like this episode, it's really ingrained in my head.
45:47
And like I mentioned, I started it while it was still on, but later.
45:52
And in the episode, a group of fairy tale ghouls named the Gentleman come to town and steal
45:59
everyone's voices.
46:01
And they leave them unable to scream when the Gentleman cut their hearts out.
46:06
And for two gals who are on a podcast right now, we love a yak.
46:11
From a young age, I love to talk.
46:13
If you cut my ability to talk, really crazy.
46:16
Oh my god, Olivia, you and I would be so screwed.
46:19
We would be so screwed.
46:21
We would be so screwed.
46:22
Yeah, first.
46:23
I mean, I do think that we would have a good sense of understanding what each other's
46:27
looks meant and what we were trying to say.
46:30
But yeah, ultimately, like that would be super scary.
46:34
And they are spooky looking.
46:36
Let me show you.
46:37
These are some of the scariest Buffy Burst monsters they are horrifying.
46:41
So this episode is the perfect mix of scary and really sunny.
46:44
Yes, exactly.
46:46
And so, you know, they're trying to figure out like how do we speak to each other and it
46:51
is really kind of like a goofy little like we don't have words.
46:55
It's a lot of body acting.
46:56
Yeah, comical misunderstandings.
46:58
Yes, exactly.
46:59
And it's just an iconic one for the show itself.
47:04
Oh gosh, I agree.
47:05
I mean, there's so many we could talk about.
47:07
The graduation day episode is incredible.
47:10
I love it.
47:11
Becoming heart one and two, doppelgangland, the wish.
47:16
There's a lot of like alternate universe episodes.
47:18
The wish is really good.
47:19
Yeah, that was one of the ones that I did.
47:22
But it's not a good like you've never seen the show before episode to bring someone
47:26
in because you have to understand the context of it.
47:29
Exactly.
47:30
Exactly.
47:31
So with Pablo Rasa, they're kind of similar episodes.
47:33
We're like alternate universe, goofiness.
47:36
Yeah, you got to know it.
47:37
Man, I could talk about Buffy for so long.
47:40
I'm so happy we finally did this episode for four years, you know.
47:45
How we stuck.
47:46
It struck up our first one still going.
47:48
Oh my god, I know.
47:50
I know.
47:51
I'm glad that you ordered a drink at my bar and that we started talking about Buffy
47:54
together.
47:55
Well, that is it for this Buffy the Vampire Slayer 101 class.
48:02
We'd love to hear about your favorite Buffy moments.
48:05
So contact us.
48:06
Or if you watch any of them and you've never seen, we will shepherd you through that journey.
48:11
We love when people reach out and say like, oh my god, I'm reading this for the first
48:14
time.
48:15
I'm watching this because of you guys.
48:16
We will fan Girl Forever.
48:18
Oh my god.
48:19
Yes.
48:20
Absolutely.
48:21
If you were starting Buffy and you're like, I don't know.
48:22
These season one graphics are pretty bad.
48:25
No, keep going.
48:26
Keep going.
48:27
Just throw it.
48:28
Get the real.
48:29
And it must have pulled on.
48:30
Yeah, it's a keep drinking.
48:31
That's what they said, Professor.
48:32
I'll leave you.
48:33
I'll hear you in the listen.
48:34
Or find you.
48:35
You can find me Olivia on Instagram @livimariez
48:43
L-I-V-I-M-A-R-I-E-Z.
48:47
And you can find me, Shauna on Instagram and threads @shaunatrinidad, S-H-A-U-N-A-T-R-I-N-I-D-A-D.
48:58
And you can find Pop Culture Junkie at our website popculturejunkie.com.
49:02
From there you can find our podcasts on any and all platforms as well as our social media
49:07
links, blog posts, and more.
49:10
And of course, please follow, subscribe, rate, and review the show.
49:14
Hell, do all of it.
49:16
Back yourself out.
49:18
Do it from the hell mouth.
49:20
Do it from the hell mouth.
49:22
And of course, we would love to have you join our Patreon because every subscription will
49:26
help us bring you more incredible episodes like this one.
49:31
Find us at patreon.com/popculturejunkiepodcast.
49:35
Sign up for a sneak peek or get a super special shout out from us.
49:40
And come back next week for another hit of pop culture.
49:44
[Music]
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The Pop Culture Junkie podcast is produced by Jeff Markin and Cheryl Lightfoot for the Pop Culture Entertainment Network.
49:54
So entertain me, entertain me right now?
49:59
‘Cause I need it bad, I need it bad!
50:07
[Music]