Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / 221: Tremaine Hemans | How Sharing Her Story Helped One Law Firm Owner Scale to 6 Figures in Just 2 Years

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221: Tremaine Hemans | How Sharing Her Story Helped One Law Firm Owner Scale to 6 Figures in Just 2 Years · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:00
  Tremaine: We can help so many people, and so many of us don't even realize the platforms we have to do that. I quote my mother-in-law a lot because she's a teacher, and teachers have the best things. And she's always telling me that someone's always watching. For whatever reason, people are watching and paying attention. So even if you don't think you're actively going out there to be an example to someone, if you have a social media page, there's someone watching and paying attention to something that you're doing.
• 0:25
  So I take that very seriously.
• 0:28
  Intro: Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers? Ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more. Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve, and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love.
• 0:59
  Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams. Now here's
• 1:19
  Davina: Hi. This is Devina. And before we jump into today's show, I'd like first to introduce you to some of our sponsors. When prospective clients are looking for an attorney, they usually turn to Google first. Optimize My Firm helps law firms grow their practices and attract more right fit clients through on page and back end search engine optimization.
• 1:42
  Optimize My Firm can help your firm rank higher on Google so that clients can find you before they find your competition. They serve personal injury, family law, workers' comp, immigration, and other types of law firms. Optimize My Firm does SEO the right way, delivering meaningful results with geographic exclusivity and no contracts. Contact them today at optimizemyfirm.com or click the link in the show notes. Tremaine Hemans is a Jamaican born Florida licensed immigration lawyer.
• 2:15
  She is the managing attorney and CEO of the Hemans Law Group PA based in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and is eligible to practice US immigration law in all 50 states in The US. Her personal experience with The United States immigration system sparked her passion for immigration law. Before law school, she entered The United States as an international student and attended Broward College, first obtaining her Associate of Arts in Pre Law with the highest honors and then her Associate of Science in Paralegal Studies with high honors. She then worked as a paralegal for five years and simultaneously obtained her bachelor's degree in legal assisting summa cum laude from the Nova Southeastern University before graduating in 2019 from Florida International University with a Juris Doctor. Ms.
• 3:05
  Hemans has been featured in several publications and television programs discussing her passion and advocacy of immigration and personal injury law, such as The Daily Business Review, Miami Herald, Jamaican Observer, Television Jamaica, and CVM Television. Tremaine's passion lies in advocating for the rights of immigrants and clients seeking justice and their American dream, just as she had when she entered The United States. She specializes in car accident and slip and fall personal injury cases and family based visa and removal defense cases and immigrants who have fallen victim to domestic violence and crimes in immigration law. Hi, Tremaine, and welcome. I'm so excited to be able to talk with you today.
• 3:49
  Tremaine: Hi. I'm so excited to be invited to speak on your awesome podcast. I've listened to a lot of episodes.
• 3:55
  Davina: Good, good, good. From your follower on Instagram, I love to look at your Instagram content. So I thought it would be great for people to hear your story because your story is so interesting. So why don't we start out by just telling us a little bit about you, your law firm and the type of clients that you serve, your practice areas and that kind of thing?
• 4:14
  Tremaine: Sure, of course. So I'm primarily an immigration attorney. I practice family based and removal defense immigration law in all 50 states and around the world. So that's super exciting. I get to go all over The US representing my clients, even though my main customer base are, of course, my Jamaicans, because when you're in immigration law, people tend to gravitate towards people of their own culture, because, you know, you feel that kinship, especially because I'm an immigrant myself.
• 4:41
  So they connect with that. But I've been very grateful to represent people from Ukraine, Venezuela, Central America, all
• 4:48
  Davina: over the world. So it's an exciting job, I love it. Wow. Wonderful. So did you go to law school with the intention of starting your own business right out
• 4:57
  Tremaine: of law school? I had no intention of starting my own firm. I was a giant book nerd in law school. I worked for the federal government all three years of law school. I worked with ICE, learning immigration from that side and also from the private immigration side.
• 5:11
  So I was fully happy to go sit in somebody's back office in a cubicle writing legal briefs and doing legal research. I'm an immigration nerd. So that's what I wanted to do. But the pandemic kind of switched my trajectory because I found that employers were getting a little bit restrictive on their employees. And I think because I went to law school as an older student, I always saw law school itself as a business.
• 5:35
  Like I'm paying you to teach me stuff and my license, I can go and open my own firm tomorrow so I don't have to take crap from anyone. Excuse me. I love that too, Pavina. That's great.
• 5:46
  Davina: Say whatever you want on this podcast.
• 5:48
  Tremaine: Great. Great. So I just decided I think I'm just gonna go out on my own and see how that goes. I'm a pretty charismatic person. I'm pretty smart.
• 5:55
  So I was like, let's see how it goes.
• 5:57
  Davina: Good. Good. You're definitely very charismatic and smart. So tell us a little bit about what led you. I know your personal experience as an immigrant helped foster your interest from a legal perspective, but just give us a little bit of your journey because you have a couple of undergrad degrees, not just one.
• 6:14
  So you obviously love school and study and learning. So tell us kind of your journey to that even get to the point where you decided to go to law school.
• 6:22
  Tremaine: Well, I would love to say that that is why I have so many degrees, but that is not why I was pretty much forced to have to go back to school just to kind of maneuver my credits because when I came here initially, my mom knew I wanted to be an attorney. She was working as a home health care aide and one of her patients, you know, gratefully served as my sponsor to come and study here. I'm the first in my family to go to college. She was like, I don't know what to do with this kid. So I'll bring you here, see if you can get some scholarships and figure it out, girl.
• 6:52
  So I got my first pre law associate's degree. And after that, I realized that because of my status, I was going to have to pause on school for a little bit and figure that part out. And then when it was time to go back to school, I had to figure out how to use the financial aid I was given in the smartest way to get my bachelor's degree. That required that I go back, get a second associate's and then go to get my bachelor's. So that's how I ended up with three undergraduate degrees.
• 7:19
  But I'm grateful all those experiences really, really helped me a lot, especially running my practice now, cause I have three undergraduate degrees in legal assisting pretty much. So I'm very, very excited at the administrative and the paralegal side of things. So I really think that lends a lot to my business being successful now. So wasn't because I like school to
• 7:39
  Davina: be It wasn't because you love school. I get it. I get it. I have always been envious of people who were paralegals before they went to law school because you have a baseline knowledge. The language is familiar to you and the actual paperwork is familiar to you and all that, which makes it easier, I think, to transition to being a lawyer for some people.
• 8:03
  I mean, there are some people that don't grasp the difference between the two, right? Because being a lawyer definitely requires you to think differently beyond. You're thinking more strategically and that kind of thing. So what was your experience like in making that transition?
• 8:20
  Tremaine: I found it helpful just like you're saying. I mean, they like to tell us that nothing helps you with law school. Like it's a foreign language for everyone and that's completely true. So I always tell my mentees, especially the ones that are in the legal assisting programs, and they get so cocky like, yeah, you know, I'm going be fine. No, ma'am, you're still going to not know what's happening because learning how to think like a lawyer is very different than learning how to be a lawyer's assistant.
• 8:44
  You know what I mean?
• 8:45
  Davina: Very much.
• 8:46
  Tremaine: I learned the nuts and bolts. I will say my legal research class was a breeze because I honestly think, and I am sure, that I went to one of the premier programs in the state of Florida. I went to Broward College and their program is amazing and it was under Lynn Herman Weiss when I was there, Doctor. Slotsberg. And Doctor.
• 9:04
  Slotsberg was a real stickler for things, you know, that means she was very strict. We were really pushed to learn more than even what would be considered through a paralegal program. So I really think it did help me a lot, but I still didn't know what's happened when I sat in that first Con Law class. Was like, what is this? I totally get it because I had
• 9:25
  Davina: a prior career before I went to law school. I graduated at 42 with the intention of starting my own firm and it was tough. It was tough, tough, much harder than I thought it was going to be. And I think this is true of a lot of high achieving women. We have to study all the things.
• 9:41
  It's not enough to just get by. If you really are serious about achieving, you really are going all in on it. So tell me about, so you went to law school. I saw where you shared a story about getting into a school. Yeah.
• 10:00
  And was that law school or was that an undergrad college?
• 10:02
  Tremaine: Yeah, it was law school. It was law school. So my story of getting into law school is I literally, I fully intended to go to law school, but I literally fell into the school that I went to. I'm not even going to lie to you because I really had no guidance. And that is why I'm so passionate about helping other first generation students find the resources to help them because I know I would have done way better if I just had some guidance from somebody else who looked like me who was going through the same situation, you know.
• 10:31
  So I went to a very good undergraduate institution. I went to Nova Southeastern University, and the demographic of my school was not the first gen culture. It's, you know, my dad's name is on the building outside and I'm 19 driving a Maserati, true story. So, yeah, so it's a very different kind of place, but there's still a lot of immigrants and stuff there, but it's a very different kind of place. So they had a program that pretty much taught you how to apply to law school because it's what they do, you know, there's a law school and everything.
• 11:04
  They gave us a counselor and I was talking to my counselor about what I should write in my personal statement and everything. And I was super excited about it because I've always known that I have a powerful story. And I've always known that what I've been through in my life is why I'm so, like, passionate and why nothing will stop me from achieving what I want, you know? So, of course, that's what I'm gonna put in my personal statement. And he told me, he was like, well, everybody has a sob story, you know?
• 11:31
  And I was like, okay.
• 11:35
  Davina: Alrighty then.
• 11:36
  Tremaine: Right. So, gratefully so, I have a mentor from the first time I came into the country and I always talk about Doctor. Patrick Ellingham. And I mentioned it to him and he was like, Screw that guy. That's literally what he said.
• 11:47
  It's like, No. Write what you want to write. He was my English professor. He was like, you're an amazing writer. Write what you think you want to say and I will go over it.
• 11:55
  He did four different drafts with me and that's the story that I submitted. I always remind my students, like, there will be a lot of people who will tell you that everybody has a sub story and that you're not special because you are a minority or but you are a 100%. Right. You know what I mean? Everything that we've been through and all of our experiences really shape who we become as adults.
• 12:17
  You know what I mean? You either decide to become a victim of it or you use it to empower yourself to propel you forward. And if you choose the latter, of course you want to share and celebrate that and let people know that that's why you should hire me. That's why you should let me into your school. And that's why I'm a badass, you know?
• 12:33
  So sharing that story got me into FIU where I didn't even think I was gonna get into because I was waitlisted there. So they called me and told me that it was my personal statement that got me into the school. That was very badass.
• 12:46
  Davina: Florida International University? Yes, ma'am. Yeah. I think that's an incredible story. I think there's a lot of lessons in there.
• 12:53
  One of which is there will be people who will offer their opinions and advice, and it will not always be the best advice for you. Exactly. Right. So it's important to trust yourself on that. Also everybody has a unique story and how we persuade people.
• 13:11
  It's by the stories that we tell. We do it for our clients in their cases. Oftentimes we don't use those stories for our own stories to help progress. If nobody teaches you that and nobody tells you that and nobody says, people want to hear your story. I can tell you from doing this podcast, I have so many people who feel like they know me because they've heard so much of my story on this.
• 13:41
  I've had people when I've met them that go, I really related to this part of your story. I think that's the
• 13:48
  Tremaine: reason on my socials. So you know, that's my model, sharing pieces of yourself. And that's what my webinar was about last week. I did a webinar on I called it you the brand, because I wanted to explain to business owners that you naturally want to separate yourself from your business, but that's not how you get clients these days. Like people are online.
• 14:07
  94% of people who are buying things, they're on their computer and on their cell phones. They're not looking through the yellow pages to find their attorneys, their accountants, or anything. So if you're not sharing a piece of yourself, you're not gonna get as many clients. And that's just the truth of it, you know? I'm also working on a book where I'm trying to share how my personal experience has shaped who I am as a business owner and how I operate in this space as a young entrepreneur, you know?
• 14:34
  So it's very important to share pieces of yourself and your story, 100%.
• 14:37
  Davina: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Because then people It's the know, like, trust factor. They know you and like you and feel like they can trust you before they've ever even met you, I which is want to talk about you because you mentioned it a couple of times, and I want to make sure that we get into it a little bit deeper, is you now, in addition to having your law firm business where you're helping immigrants, you mentor, you have a business where you're coaching and mentoring law students and also small business owners. So tell me a little bit about that.
• 15:11
  Is that kind of two separate things that you're doing or are they sort of together?
• 15:14
  Tremaine: They're merging into one now because it started off as just mentoring law students. It's honestly a free service I provide to young, they don't have no money. They don't have any money to give anyone. Okay? They're barely getting by.
• 15:26
  But when I was in law school, I talk about it very frequently that being a young black person going to law school can be very daunting. Less than five percent of all lawyers in The U. S. Are black, and that is reflected in the classroom. So I walked into my first classroom and only saw two other faces that looked like mine out of a class of almost 80 students.
• 15:45
  And I immediately told myself, I do not belong here. Everything is telling me that I'm not supposed to be here. And I kind of like told myself that all semester because I didn't have a lot of mentors. Right. I would talk to other students and stuff, but it wasn't until I spoke to the upperclassmen that I realized that this is an experience that you're going to feel not only in school, it's going to be in practice.
• 16:07
  This is something that remains. So you either are going to stand up and be proud of that seat that you are in or let it crush you, you know. So remembering that experience, 1L year, I decided I'm not going to let anybody else who was in my vicinity feel what I felt. So I really went out and sought the students. My main mentee, as I call her, name's Lunginia, she's a lovely, bright, brilliant young girl.
• 16:30
  And I saw her in the library and I saw her face and I was like, okay, hey kid, I'm Tremaine, da da da and she was not interested at all. Like, who's this lady? I'm trying to study. But I literally went after them when I was in school. So when I left school, was like, how do I continue to do this for these students, but also open it up to students everywhere because now I have mentees in England, lot of them are in Jamaica, there's lots of students all because this is a universal experience for all of us.
• 16:57
  Even if you're not a black student because I don't only have black students anymore. It's a really hard thing and you know it really changes your DNA becoming a lawyer. I love the law school experience but it's really daunting. So I opened it up to a lot more students by launching Legally Trimmed as this business. I made a little website, made a little sign up sheet for the girls I and do my little consultations when I'm on my way from the office on the telephone, just talking to them, just talking to someone who can validate your experience and say, hey, maybe don't do that, do this instead.
• 17:32
  Or, as my mother-in-law will say, I have a British mother-in-law. Okay, you know, the Brits do not abide too much emotion. So she would be like, you get five minutes to feel bad for yourself, and then you got to get up and keep going. Right? I like that.
• 17:45
  Like, of course you will cry. I don't cry anymore a lot because I feel like law school stole all my tears. I always joke about that. You can cry.
• 17:52
  Davina: I understand that. Right.
• 17:53
  Tremaine: You can cry, but you got to stop crying at some point. So it really took off. I'm very grateful that I was able to get an award from the Florida Bar for my pro bono services in that respect. So I don't know when I opened my business now the questions change because now my mentees are watching me open a firm and they're like, okay, want to do that too. And I'm like, okay, well, is horrible girl, but let me walk you through what I did.
• 18:15
  And you know, a lot of them ended up opening their own businesses. So I found I got a lot of questions where that was concerned as well. So I was like, okay, what if I just create something that teaches people how to do what I have been able to do? Because I always talk about how I didn't have to really start paying for marketing until my second year of having my law firm. I took full advantage of my social media presence and grew it to 40,000 people now across social media platforms that will refer me clients, hire me, and all of that.
• 18:45
  So I grow, like, 200,000 every quarter from my social media. Like Oh, wow. Because I just did my first piece of, like, static branding by putting up a billboard in my local city, but I've been able to do a lot from my socials. That's the thing I always feel like when you share with others, you're not taking away from yourself. You're not losing money.
• 19:07
  It can only make you more. I'm always so happy to share things. So that's where I'm going into now into just mentoring everyone like, hey, you wouldn't be too great. Let me teach you how. Where do you
• 19:18
  Davina: think that comes from? That sort of drive to help others? Because you do it in your practice and you do it as a side hustle. I mean, like, it's really a part of who you are.
• 19:28
  Tremaine: Sounds like Who I am.
• 19:29
  Davina: Where do you think that comes from?
• 19:31
  Tremaine: A few things. A few things. That my background's very interesting. I did not have the greatest relationship with my mother growing up. We had a very tumultuous relationship.
• 19:43
  And while that was happening, I felt like I didn't really have a voice in my house. But at the same time, my mom was a mom to everybody and she still is, you know what I mean? So I learned that from her. She's always lived a life of service. My father was in the Jamaica Defense Force, which is our military my whole life.
• 20:00
  So my whole family have been service people. But coming from that space also where I felt like I was bullied at home and then I went to Catholic girls school in Jamaica. Okay, so I was bullied at school too, like I really think it comes from both of those things. Like I grew up watching my family serve and then at school I was also serving or being served a lot of bullying. So it comes from that.
• 20:27
  I just like standing up for little people.
• 20:29
  Davina: Right. Standing up for other people and helping them through the struggle because you've been through it and you know what it looks like on the other side of what it can look like.
• 20:38
  Tremaine: Absolutely. I feel like we've all been through something where if we just decided to share just a little bit of that, we can help so many people and so many of us don't even realize the platforms we have to do that. I quote my mother-in-law a lot because she's a teacher and teachers have the best things and she's always telling me that someone's always watching. For whatever reason, are watching and paying attention. So even if you don't think you're actively going out there to be an example to someone, if you have a social media page, there's someone watching and paying attention to something that you're doing.
• 21:10
  So I take that very Right, right,
• 21:13
  Davina: right. There's a lot of responsibility there. The expression that I heard is your message, your message, but your message is not your message until you've gotten on the other side and processed it enough to where you're not in the middle of it. I think that's an important factor is you are a true success story in all the ways, right? Having grown this successful business and all that you put into it, I bet there were times that you probably thought I will never get through this and get through Oh, yeah.
• 21:44
  The Oh my goodness. Well, what was that like?
• 21:48
  Tremaine: I feel like enough entrepreneurs don't tell you about this part and I have no problem to listen. The imposter syndrome does not go away. Okay. I remember when I just opened because I operate out of a Regis because duh, I'm not buying any sweets right now. It's the future.
• 22:04
  But my first office was like a matchbox. And I went in there and, you know, I was doing my little thing, typing up my letters for my clients and everything. And I just stopped for a second and realized that I had given up my 6 figure job to see if people will hire me to do stuff and I lost it. I felt the walls closing in. Called one of my friends and said, Oh my god, what did I do?
• 22:28
  And that happens every now and then, know, and I have to my yoga instructor taught me to sit on the floor when you feel that and elevate your legs. You should try it sometime, Davina. It's amazing.
• 22:38
  Davina: I need to do that for sure.
• 22:39
  Tremaine: Yes. Just lock your office door, put your legs up and just lay there and breathe for a second and then get up and get back to it. But it happens all the time. It's a lot of pressure.
• 22:49
  Davina: Yeah, no matter I mean, I've been working for a long time. Had this coaching business for ten years. That's amazing. And still, some days, I have to deliberately stop and remind myself that, wow, I've been in this business for ten years and what an accomplishment that is. I'm a gold chaser.
• 23:12
  My whole life, I'm a gold chaser. So I'm always looking for the next thing and what do I want to do and what's the next level and all of that. So sometimes I just have to stop. I think a lot of women are sort of guilty of that. Like we just We're so high achieving women are always chasing that next achievement.
• 23:30
  And it's really great when you can sort of stop and sit in what you've accomplished and say, I've already had a tremendous impact. No matter what your practice area is, if you're out there helping people or if you've chosen to do something different with your law degree or whatever, we're always impacting people as we go through our lives. So I was thinking about like, what kind of impact do I wanna have? I wanna have a positive impact. What does that look like?
• 23:54
  And we don't always get it right. But just like giving yourself some grace and taking a moment to sit and say, yeah, I did do those things. And that is impressive. And, you know, I'm not the little Catholic school girl before somebody's going to push around.
• 24:11
  Tremaine: What Right? We were talking about last week in the webinar was how just starting a business or starting anything requires a certain level of audacity. Like, you don't have any time for toxic humility, as I call it, where you're like, oh, well, you know, I don't wanna shine too bright. I don't wanna make anyone uncomfortable. Toxic humility.
• 24:29
  Is nothing more audacious than saying I'm gonna go out and make my own money. So for you to do that, you really have to be like, I'm kind of amazing. I really am.
• 24:39
  Davina: You do. You do. You have to believe in yourself to be able to do that because it's risky. You're always taking risks. People think it gets, you know, oh, it gets easier, but your risks become bigger.
• 24:51
  Your decisions become bigger. Start hiring people. Now you're taking bigger risks. Mean, there's always something. You're putting yourself out there more, which means, oh, would you have to more judgment?
• 25:00
  I once had a coach say to me, the people who can take the most judgment are the ones who have unlimited success. So, the more judgment you can take And she used the two people running for president at the time, which was Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, regardless of what you think of them. And I don't think highly of one of them in particular, but they both are people who could take an enormous amount of judgment. Anybody who's running for office, that is often what limits our success when you talk about social media is we're so worried about people judging us and what we put out there. You realize that if you just don't think about it or you take it with a grain of salt or you consider the source and say, I don't really know this person is judging me and makes a comment on my social media.
• 25:52
  I don't really know all the stuff that's going on in their life to cause them to come and say such a hateful thing or to say something. And if you just say, it's none of my business, it would not be my choice to go out and be visible. I'm definitely an introvert. I'd rather be sitting there, like you said, locked in my little room. But if you want success in business, you have to overcome that.
• 26:16
  So all sorts of mental tricks. What are some of your mental tricks do you think that have helped you to step out there so fully like you have?
• 26:24
  Tremaine: I'm a storyteller. So I'll take you back to when I was taking my we call them CXCs in Jamaica. So high school in Jamaica is very rigorous. Okay, we are taking SAT level stuff at 15. All right.
• 26:38
  And that determines whether you get into college and what jobs you'll get depending on how many subjects you excel at. And when I was taking those examinations, I was living with a deacon from my church at the time, and she used to send me out every morning when I had an exam with a plant and an egg sandwich. You should try that if you haven't tried it before. And before I left, would have me recite this Bible verse every single morning and the Bible verse is Philippians four verse 13 and it says, I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. And that's my mantra.
• 27:13
  I have it written on my whiteboard for all my cases, it's everywhere to remind myself that there is nothing that I cannot do if I have faith in myself and faith in God. And if you're not a Christian person, faith that the universe will bring you all of the good things if you just believe in yourself. Right? There's so much power in speaking life into what you are capable of. I recite that every day.
• 27:36
  I recited it before I started this podcast with you. Like, it's just something that that's my main tool. I also think that my defense mechanism is to just be as loud and bold as I can all the time. But really, I really I tell people all the time that I'm an extroverted introvert because after I do all of the things, I have like a thousand consultations today when I finish this, And I will go home and sit in my underpants and my husband's t shirt and watch SpongeBob for the rest of the day. And I don't want to talk to anyone.
• 28:05
  Right? But while I'm doing what I'm doing, I have to create this persona for myself that I'm amazing and I'm going to be fabulous, it's going be great. I did all the studies, learned all the things. I can do this. So you just have to be Another your own thought leader the back of your thing that I teach my mentees as well is I think as women especially, sometimes you don't really think about how you dress and carry yourself can really seep into how your day goes, to be honest with you.
• 28:35
  So I have a very fabulous mother, okay, always dressed to the nines. There is no person that can dress like Miss Donna when she's going to church, and that's how I carry myself. Every day I really curate my outfits. I love fashion, I feel like it's such a great way of expressing yourself, And it's kind of like your fabulosity armor. You know what I mean?
• 28:56
  Davina: Love it. I so agree with you.
• 28:59
  Tremaine: They have to go good because I look good. Are my
• 29:02
  Davina: little tools. It It shores up your confidence when you feel like, you know, I look good. And it's an energy thing too. You're putting out instead of matching the energy that may be in the room, you're coming in and setting the energy. You're dressed well, you're confident, you've talked yourself up, you come into a room and people are naturally going to be gravitating towards you to hear what you have to say.
• 29:30
  It makes what you say have more gravitas and feel more important, right? Because they're looking to go, this person has it all together. Whatever you feel when you're sitting at home and you're in little seizure, don't worry about that. The definition of introvert is that we get energy from alone time. And I think there are a lot of introverted people who are still out there being charismatic and doing things, but you just have to have that time to recharge.
• 29:54
  Whereas truly extroverted people, they just cannot get up. They're on all
• 29:58
  Tremaine: the time. Exactly. Right.
• 30:01
  Davina: And I'm like, every now and then I got to be away from people.
• 30:03
  Tremaine: Okay. My staff knows like every two months or so because I have the blessing of being from one of the most beautiful places on earth. And I love being Jamaican and there's Jamaica recharges me. The second I step off the plane and the air is different, my people are so warm, the food is delicious, and everything feels like a hug. So I like going home for a couple of days just to sit and get away from everyone and everything.
• 30:27
  And my office manager always, she's like, Nope, she's got to go. It's time for her to leave. Let me look up the plane tickets. Get out of there. Go sit down somewhere and relax yourself.
• 30:35
  Know, I'm really grateful that I don't have a team who thinks, Oh my gosh, she's always on vacation or something like my staff and my husband. They understand that that's a time for me to go recharge because doing all that we do as attorneys is a lot. But being a humanitarian lawyer, people's true life problems become your problems. And majority of my cases are survivors of domestic violence, people seeking asylum from horrible things in their countries, you know. And then there's just families that you want to help them and do your best to keep their families together.
• 31:07
  So I'm an empath. So I take all of that with me. So you have to find some way to shed all of it. And that's what I do. I have to go sit out.
• 31:16
  Davina: I love that. I love that. You know, I always say that with lawyers, no matter your practice area, what you do is so important because you're dealing either with somebody's financial well-being or their life or their liberty. It all is so impactful and can really set the trajectory in the course of their life from their time they interact with you to the outcome of that. People don't come to lawyers for fun.
• 31:42
  Mean, they're coming to the lawyers
• 31:43
  Tremaine: because People don't like us. You see a lawyer and you have a problem.
• 31:49
  Davina: That's right. They love us after they work with us and they get to see what get to see the power of that we can wield by our not with our knowledge and what we can do on their behalf. But that does that secondary trauma does take its toll. And you really have to have tools in place to deal with that. And for everybody that's different
• 32:09
  Tremaine: school, I learned I didn't know about the rate of suicide and alcoholism and drug abuse. And now that I'm a practicing lawyer, I get it. You know what I mean? All we do is take on people's problems. As a young lawyer, that's why I try so hard to already start creating the habits to offset that than, you know, falling into certain things.
• 32:30
  So I run the therapy whenever I can. Let me go unload the problems on someone else, or just go sit on the beach in Jamaica and eat a fried fish or drink some soup by a river somewhere and just sleep. You know, like it's important to find healthy tools to handle it. It's an expensive tool because it's not always cheap to jump on a plane and go home. But that's my thing, you know?
• 32:52
  Davina: That's your thing. That and your feet up on the couch in your office. Yes. Definitely. I love it.
• 32:58
  Tell me, I wanna talk a little bit about your law firm's growth and success because you did grow it to 6 figures very quickly within a couple of years and you did that through your social media presence. But let's talk a little bit more about that. Tell me a little bit more about you're sitting there having opened it, you've opened your firm, called your friend going, what have I done? And then what did you do next?
• 33:22
  Tremaine: Well, so I think what I learned the most that helped me the most in this practice is that I learned very early on that I'm going to need a lot of mentors the second I got into school because I was like, I have no experience with this. Nobody in my family has any experience with this. So I've been very lucky to be around truly incredible attorneys, you know what I mean, in my practice area, not in my practice area. So when it was time for me to open my firm, I remember there was this guy I was obsessed with when I was in school. Was like, this guy is awesome, man, and he's Jamaican.
• 33:55
  He's greatly dressed, and he's talking about law, and he's very celebratory of his accent. You know what I mean? And so because we sound very Jamaican sound great. When I'm in court, I'm fully Jamaican because the judge is fully engaged in whatever I'm saying in this gorgeous accent.
• 34:10
  Davina: I love to listen to you.
• 34:11
  Tremaine: So you have a beautiful voice. Thank you. So I messaged him on Instagram. I had no idea who this man was. I was like, hey, listen, man.
• 34:20
  I would really like for you to mentor me. So we would talk now and then, but I really didn't have anything to say to this busy man who's traveling the world, representing athletes and all kinds of people everywhere. So when I wanted to open the firm, I reached out to him again, and I was like, listen, I really feel like I'm the female version of you, and I need to learn how you did that. And, I feel like it's an attorney thing. Like, I do think that we are contentious when it needs to be.
• 34:45
  But I find this field to be so supportive of younger attorneys when it's time for us to go out and do things. Cause he literally took time out of his day and he called me and I sat there with my notepad. My husband and I were driving to a Trinidadian restaurant that night. I remember we're going to go eat curry and roti. And I sat in the car and I was just jotting down what he was telling me.
• 35:05
  He was like, you're going need to do this, you're going to need to do that, da da da da da And he kind of laid it out for me. And I was like, Oh, okay. So I think I need to put it off a little bit because I don't have the month, the capital it's going to take to do what you're telling me. And he was like, No, I'll invest in you. He was like, I pay attention to you too.
• 35:20
  Like I said, someone's always watching. And he was like, I was wondering when you were going to step out on your own. So I feel like it's a great investment for me. And so he helped me get my practice off the ground in terms of packaging myself to present as, hey, I'm a law firm owner, you can come to me and trust me that I'm not going to waste your money. And then I had another mentor, Marlon Hill, who was like this giant colorful ball of energy down here.
• 35:44
  And Marlon knows everyone. I call him a social butterfly. He literally knows everybody and he is at everything. He goes to like five events a day while also being a law partner at Weiserota, which is like a huge law firm. I don't know where he finds the time.
• 36:00
  Right. So I was like the energy you have to stretch yourself to do all these things, teach me how to do that, man. So he was also super supportive. I remember he allowed me to, he was like, here's some books, you'll need these things, right? I talked to my professor in law school when I did the immigration clinic, He was very supportive.
• 36:20
  So I think I really leaned on my mentors to help me figure out what I was supposed to do. Didn't just jump into it and say, Hey, I'm going to figure it out, because that's not the smartest way to go. Of course, you have to do your research, you have to do the groundwork. So I really hit the pavement before I opened. So when I did, and Marlon was also telling me as well, he was like, you got to tap into that social media presence you had because I already had one cause I used it for law school.
• 36:45
  That was my way of complaining about law school. Was like, this is terrible. Why does no one tell you about this? Do you know how much Nobody tells you. I was like, do you know how much you have to read?
• 36:55
  So I shared my experiences and like I said, had a really robust experience in law school. I ended up being the president of the Black Law Students Association and I was an ambassador for the school, so I traveled the country recruiting students. So I had a really interesting platform now that I think about it. Like if you're interested in law, this looks cool, man. She's having a blast while also crying sometimes.
• 37:18
  So when I started practicing and I was working at the firm, was like, hey, I'm a lawyer now. Look, I'm winning cases. I'm going to court doing my little thing. Here's this asylum case that I just won. I won the first case I ever tried in immigration court, which is hard because nobody wins.
• 37:34
  So I would share those experiences. So he was like, you didn't even realize that you were already setting yourself up for this. I said, he was like, people are waiting for you to tell them, okay, this is yours, open your own, you know, so they were very supportive. So when I launched it on social media, went live on Instagram after sharing a little video saying, hey, you know, I was supposed to be a lawyer. My superpower is, you know, listening to people and my immigration experience.
• 38:02
  And it was a really cool video that I ended up making with some really great creators down here. And so when I shared it and I went live, I remember sitting there going, nobody's going to come here, nobody's going to join this live, what have I done? And so many people joined and I gave the phone number and then the phone started ringing when I was in the live. And I was like, oh my gosh, like this could really work. So I think that really validated it for me.
• 38:27
  So I leaned into that. I was like, this is an untapped resource for me. So let me tap into this. In the pandemic, TikTok really took off. I was one of those anti TikTok people at first.
• 38:38
  Was like, oh my god, another social media platform. Like Instagram knows everything about me already. I cannot be bothered. But now I was realizing that I have to be everywhere. Where are the people?
• 38:49
  That's where I have to be because I have to get the clients. The lights got to stay on, right? And I have to pay my bill. So I have to figure it So I went on TikTok and at first it was like two people. I did a sponsored ad once and I realized what is out there on the internet, that not everybody loves the immigrants.
• 39:07
  And that was a bit jarring for me. I was like, maybe I should pull back. But I was like, I feel like this is where it is. So I got a little intern because of course when you're just starting, I always warn people to scale slow. Do not start off with a bunch of people if you can see how it goes and, you know, try to make as much as you can by yourself as a solo and then add the staffers.
• 39:31
  Until you realize that it affects your work product and your clients, then you scale and add more. It was just me at first, the accountant, the lawyer, the paralegal, everything. And I added my little intern to answer the phone. She was 18 at the time and now she's one of my office assistants and she's, you know Gen Z people, they think different than us.
• 39:51
  Davina: They do,
• 39:52
  Tremaine: they just get it. So Tremaine, you don't do enough on your TikTok. She was like, people will gravitate to you as a person. She's like, you are hilarious. She was like, so you need to do more one on one stuff with them, like stop trying to be the serious lawyer on TikTok.
• 40:07
  She was like, that doesn't work on TikTok. And she was like, there's a huge Jamaican audience and Caribbean audience because we don't generally see ourselves in the legal profession. When you're looking for an immigration lawyer, nine times out of 10, they don't speak with your accent or speak your language. You know what I mean? So she was like lean into that.
• 40:26
  I leaned into it. And within a month, I had my first thousand followers, so I went live. And when I went live, I would realize that people would just start asking questions. Jamaicans are very audacious, like, oh, if this is a lawyer, I'm going to ask my question for free right here. No problem.
• 40:43
  So I would answer one and two questions and then I realized that because you can see when people are sharing stuff and following you in the live feed and I was like, just from me answering questions for free like that, like that's crazy. So I realized after that first live, I gained like 200 followers just from that and they were scheduling consultations with my office because they'd asked me how I can reach So I was like, that's my thing. I love sharing and I love helping and I was like answering one or two questions can really change how someone perceives the immigration sphere because in my community, the thing with my people is they don't think they need lawyers to do immigration. I can do it myself. It's like filing taxes on TurboTax.
• 41:26
  Like, it's not that simple. You just file it and see what happens. And I'm like, no. This is a federal legal case. You can get in real trouble for doing certain things.
• 41:35
  No. You can't hide information that is defrauding the federal government. Like, hey. This is serious stuff. Right.
• 41:42
  I feel like I started explaining certain things to people, explaining why, you know, there's so much fraud and why there's a lot of people that are taking advantage of you who are not attorneys. They don't know what they're doing but they're charging you thousands of dollars to do this and they have no clue what they're doing And then after they mess it up, you come to a lawyer and pay more. That doesn't make sense. Talk to the attorney first. That cut out the mortgage.
• 42:06
  Davina: And it's gonna be more economical Yes. In the long run if
• 42:10
  Tremaine: you do that. I feel like a light bulb went off on so many people's minds. So after that, I realized that every time I went live, I would gain hundreds of followers. All my my consultation bookings went up completely. I would have like eight consults a day between two.
• 42:26
  I had to cut down how many days I was doing consultations. So between Tuesday and Thursday now, on a busy month, I'll have eight consultations a day. Yeah, and I charge for my consultation, Sunny. Law school was not free. Good.
• 42:40
  That's true. No, ma'am. Charge for your words, and I was doing that. I would talk to my mentors like, what do you charge people for this? Like, I don't know what to charge people, you know, like, and then I get this, you charge this.
• 42:52
  And the same guy I told you I met on Instagram, he's always checking in with me. He's like, hope you're charging this for that. And you're charging this because you are not the typical immigration lawyer that's fresh. Because I had the previous paralegal experience, he was like, no, and you worked for the other side. He was like, to be honest
• 43:10
  Davina: He helped you see. Helped you see the things that you weren't seeing that were your advantages, those unique advantages that you have over somebody else. You said something about how the legal community can be so supportive. And I think it's trauma bonding. I think any of us who've been through law school are like, oh, I know.
• 43:28
  Or started your own firm or whatever. You're like, oh, I see you. I see you.
• 43:32
  Tremaine: Okay. This is terrible. I know. Come here.
• 43:34
  Davina: It's trauma I think people can be so dismissive of other generations. And I have two beautiful nephews who are a Gen Z And I love that you got some of the best advice you got was from your Gen Z legal intern who became your assistant.
• 43:51
  Tremaine: Eighteen years Yeah.
• 43:53
  Davina: And to listen to that and be open to that and not say, oh, you don't know because you don't know anything about what it means to work in the real world or whatever, but to listen to that. And we never know where the good advice is going to come from. Exactly. You always have to be willing to listen. Yeah, for sure.
• 44:10
  So I love you. I love that you shared that story about how you sort of you didn't try to do it alone, Even though you had to do all the hard work for the education, all along the way, you always fostered those mentoring relationships and sought those out and asked for them and asked for people to give you advice. And all of that had to have changed the way that you thought about certain things. 100%. Because we have our stories.
• 44:39
  We grow up with mental money stories or mental ideas in our head about things. And to get out and ask other people. Often that can be the thing, that one thing can change the course of your life. If somebody says something to you that you're like, I never thought of
• 44:54
  Tremaine: it that way. And that also starts with you remembering that you should never be afraid to ask. Because I've gotten no's. I remember I was thinking of, you know, starting a family law practice because that inevitably ties itself into immigration, but I don't like doing stuff unless I have the background in it. Like we as attorneys, like it's not hard to start a new practice area, but we also know that what they tell you in the book is very different than what happens in practice.
• 45:19
  So I remember asking one of the attorneys I knew to coach me and he was like, no. And I was like, okay. Never Never mind. Mind. That's fine.
• 45:29
  So you're not going to always get a yes, you know, but never be afraid to ask. As my mother-in-law always says, the worst thing people can say to you is no. And once you learn that, like, it's not going to kill you. Exactly.
• 45:40
  Davina: Well, when you're business for yourself, that is probably one of the hardest things because you're going do consultations with people who are going to tell you no. And they're going to say to you, you're too expensive or there's no way I'm It's usually that. There's no way I'm paying that or you're too whatever. And just realizing that again, it's not about you, it's about them. Like it's about there's a whole lot of stuff in their life that you don't know about that leads them not to make that choice at this time.
• 46:06
  And that's okay too. Right?
• 46:08
  Tremaine: Because I approach we're not consults thinking, you know what, even if they don't hire me to do it, now they have the information.
• 46:17
  Davina: Right. So important. So important. And I think that's why it's important to charge too for your consultations because there's a little skin in the game. They're going to listen to what you have to say.
• 46:27
  Also, as you said, law school wasn't cheap and all that education costs money. You need to be compensated for that. They can go to law school if they want to do that. So tell us how we can find out more about you and follow you on social media. What are your handles and all
• 46:45
  Tremaine: of that stuff? Where can we find Of course. So my office telephone number is (954) 315-3840. My website is www.hemanslaw.com. If you want to find me on social media, I am Legally Trem everywhere, L E G A L L Y T R E M.
• 47:03
  But if you are a little more serious and only interested in my law firm, our law firm's Instagram is Hemans Law. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, threads, everywhere. So you can find me everywhere as Legally Trim.
• 47:17
  Davina: I follow you on Legally Trem. That's how I found you and started listening to you. One of the things that's been so fun for Wealthy Woman Lawyer, I have a personal account and I have Wealthy Woman Lawyer. And on Wealthy Woman Lawyer, we follow mainly other lawyers. It really is so fun because I learned so much, even though I am a lawyer, I practice in different practice areas following, listening to other people's content.
• 47:42
  I've never practiced in immigration and I'll listen to immigration lawyers. I'm like, I never knew that. I never thought about it. And for somebody who's a curious learner, I love my Wealthy Woman Lawyer feed because I do have mostly lawyers and I get to hear, learn all kinds of things. It's definitely fun.
• 47:59
  I followed your account. Of course, I also love your sense of style. I just had some photos done and I have this blue suit. You're going to see this photos come out soon. It's this gorgeous blue pantsuit and I saw you and you have one very similar to it.
• 48:13
  There's my colors right there. The beautiful suit she's got on when you were doing
• 48:17
  Tremaine: your Being a woman lawyer is so fun. We have so much opportunity to do so much with our clothes. So I love that. Can't wait to see those pictures.
• 48:25
  Davina: Yeah, they're coming. I've been putting a couple out. I haven't put any out on Wealthy Woman Lawyer yet. I've turned them over to my social media manager and she was so happy to finally have some new photos to work with. She's like, Oh, thank you.
• 48:36
  I'm so tired of these photos. I'm like, I know. But I hate doing the photo shoots. I have to really work myself up to go do them.
• 48:43
  Tremaine: You're gorgeous and you have that fabulous hair. You got to take more pictures, Davina.
• 48:48
  Davina: Thank you. Thank you. Listen, I have a hairdresser who keeps my secrets. Before we wrap up, I just wanna make sure we get this out there. You also are always looking for opportunities to speak.
• 48:59
  You're kinda growing that you're speaking engagement, you're speaking business. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that? So if anybody's listening that might be looking for a good speaker, they may make that connection. So tell us a little bit about your interest in speaking and kind of what you want to do.
• 49:13
  Tremaine: Yeah. So again, I'm always super interested in sharing and helping other people grow and thrive. And again, sharing your story is so important and so many people don't even recognize how they might identify with your story. So any opportunity I get to go speak at a school or speak at an event, I'm always ready to go do it. My next speaking engagement is going to be in my country.
• 49:35
  I get to go speak at the law school there and I'm super excited about that. If you're looking for a motivational speaker, I know there's a bunch of people out there, but everyone has something unique to put in it. And I think the rawness of what I share and how I've been able to segue my story into so many different areas of my life and my career, I think that I definitely have something to offer. Have something to say. As a young millennial, I have a different perspective on a lot of things.
• 50:02
  So I'm excited to see what opportunities come from that.
• 50:05
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Me too. I hope people are listening and somebody says, I need a speaker and she's the exact person I need to talk to.
• 50:12
  So I'm sure they will. I really appreciate you being here on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. I reached out to you cold and invited you, and I'm so glad that you took me off on my invitation because as
• 50:22
  Tremaine: I said, a fan. All
• 50:26
  Davina: right, Trem. Thanks so much.
• 50:28
  Tremaine: You're welcome. Thank you, Delina.
• 50:30
  Intro: If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in your business and your life, then you'll want to visit us at wealthywomanlawyer.com to learn more about how we help our clients create wealth generating law firms with ease.