Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 392] Before the Rock Stars: The Story of Harry Altman & Buffalo's Legendary Nightclubs with Susan Fenster

Transcript

[EP 392] Before the Rock Stars: The Story of Harry Altman & Buffalo's Legendary Nightclubs with Susan Fenster · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

0:00
Speaker 1: We have a very deep, I believe history of music
0:04
Speaker 1: here in Buffalo, and I'm taking on Cleveland for the
0:07
Speaker 1: rights to say that we were the start of rock
0:09
Speaker 1: and roll in a big way. George Lorenz and Tommy
0:11
Speaker 1: Shannon and WKBW was a station that you could gear
0:15
Speaker 1: all the way down East coast and they promoted major
0:18
Speaker 1: acts here and Brick James and many great acts came
0:21
Speaker 1: out of here. The Goodaws. Of course, the band in
0:24
Speaker 1: Animal House is based on Wilmer than the Dukes. We're
0:28
Speaker 1: totally bum rock and roll. I mean, I'll leave you
0:32
Speaker 1: you're reading.
0:33
Speaker 2: Little hens this.
0:33
Speaker 1: It's time to rock and roll, Totally booked.
0:42
Speaker 2: Welcome back to book don Rock the podcast for those
0:45
Speaker 2: about to read and rock and Eric Senach before we
0:47
Speaker 2: get into the episode. If you'd like to support the podcast,
0:51
Speaker 2: get episodes commercial free on the audio version, just go
0:55
Speaker 2: to book down rock dot com, or you can go
0:57
Speaker 2: to the links for this episode and sign up for
1:00
Speaker 2: the backstage pass from Patreon. Again just five dollars a month,
1:03
Speaker 2: and that goes to support the podcast. And thanks to
1:06
Speaker 2: all of you who have joined now and to my
1:08
Speaker 2: guest Susan Fenster. She's the author of Harry Altman Buffalo's
1:12
Speaker 2: Master Showman. Before Buffalo became a stop for rock acts
1:16
Speaker 2: like Slying, the Family Stone, and the Bob Seger System,
1:19
Speaker 2: there was Harry Altman, a visionary promoter who spent decades
1:22
Speaker 2: bringing top entertainers to Western New York. Susan's book Harry Altman,
1:26
Speaker 2: Buffalo's Master Showman, tells the story of the man who
1:29
Speaker 2: built an entertainment empire, helped shape a city's cultural identity,
1:34
Speaker 2: and somehow became a forgotten figure in the very history
1:37
Speaker 2: he helped create. Susan, Welcome to the podcast.
1:40
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate you having me.
1:42
Speaker 2: There's a quote in the book from Harry. He said, quote,
1:44
Speaker 2: I understand poverty. I made my start as a shoeshine
1:47
Speaker 2: boy on the streets of this city. So tell us
1:50
Speaker 2: who was Harry Altman and why should we know his
1:53
Speaker 2: name today?
1:54
Speaker 1: He was the last born son and the only son
1:57
Speaker 1: born in the United States of Russia emigrants from the
2:02
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds, So he had seven brothers and sisters.
2:08
Speaker 1: All of them ended up being very successful, but they
2:10
Speaker 1: were came in poverty. He started out his career at nineteen.
2:18
Speaker 1: I don't think he really graduated from high school, and
2:21
Speaker 1: he went to Gloversville, New York, which it is what
2:24
Speaker 1: it sounds like, the place where in the United States
2:28
Speaker 1: and most number of gloves were ever sold. And he
2:31
Speaker 1: made an important friend there. He was a salesman. His
2:34
Speaker 1: name was at the time Samuel fishburn Berg. He later
2:41
Speaker 1: ends up being Sam Goldwyn. So he gets inspired by
2:45
Speaker 1: what Sam does. He goes to New York City as
2:49
Speaker 1: a salesman for his glove company, but he gets involved
2:52
Speaker 1: in film, and Harry decides he wants to do something
2:55
Speaker 1: comparable come back to his hometown, which happens to be Buffalo,
2:59
Speaker 1: New York. Go bills and I got to say that
3:03
Speaker 1: if you're from.
3:03
Speaker 2: Here and you're a fan of them, I think.
3:07
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely, what a season.
3:10
Speaker 2: Wow.
3:11
Speaker 1: I should have wore my my my saber shirt. So
3:15
Speaker 1: he he becomes an event planner in a nutshell. He
3:20
Speaker 1: he models the Marti Gras of New Orleans and Buffalo,
3:25
Speaker 1: and he takes over our Civic Orders auditorium at the time,
3:30
Speaker 1: and it's very successful until the twenties when liquor is
3:33
Speaker 1: stopped here all over the country and he takes another
3:38
Speaker 1: route and he starts opening ballrooms, opening roller rinks all
3:44
Speaker 1: kinds of places that have spaces that have really big floors,
3:48
Speaker 1: so you know, they were all Ultimately a lot of
3:55
Speaker 1: them end up the ones that did that failed ended
3:57
Speaker 1: up being auto dealership, so you give the impression. Sometimes
4:00
Speaker 1: he had a ballroom at night, and he had the
4:04
Speaker 1: skating rink in the afternoon kind of thing, and then
4:07
Speaker 1: he slowly edges himself into supper clubs. And then actually
4:11
Speaker 1: his greatest successes, which was the Town Casino and Glen Casino,
4:15
Speaker 1: don't happen until relatively late in his life. Glen was
4:19
Speaker 1: open in his forties and the Town was open in
4:22
Speaker 1: its fifties his fifties, so, and they were very large nightclubs.
4:29
Speaker 1: The Town Nightclub could see twelve hundred people and he
4:34
Speaker 1: had three shows a night, so lots of people going through.
4:37
Speaker 1: And the Glen Casino and that's downtown Buffalo right in
4:40
Speaker 1: our theater district, and the Glen Casino is in a
4:44
Speaker 1: suburb about eight miles from the city, and it was
4:48
Speaker 1: about eight hundred people three times a night. He sometimes
4:52
Speaker 1: used both of them at the same time, but most
4:54
Speaker 1: of the time it was the Town was during from
4:58
Speaker 1: labor day to day, and then the Glen was in
5:01
Speaker 1: the summer from Memorial Day to.
5:04
Speaker 2: Labor Day, so during their peak years. How significant were
5:08
Speaker 2: the Glenn Casino in Town casino on the national entertainment circuit.
5:11
Speaker 2: A lot of people came through there, Sammy Davis Junior.
5:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the pretty much all the major players came
5:17
Speaker 1: through here of that time, the Crooners, the Borsch Belk comedians,
5:22
Speaker 1: and then as time went on, you know, more and
5:25
Speaker 1: more recent like the Smothers brothers and Jackie Mason and
5:29
Speaker 1: that type of thing came through. But yes, he was
5:34
Speaker 1: the only he was the largest, probably the largest casino
5:38
Speaker 1: in the country at that time, and he played with
5:40
Speaker 1: the big boys, the lou Walters, Billy Rose's, so he
5:44
Speaker 1: was very active and nationally did some work with Walters,
5:50
Speaker 1: particularly with the Latin Quarter, and had one of the
5:55
Speaker 1: and it's stated many times in the newspapers, one of
5:58
Speaker 1: the biggest budgets for talent in the country. So those
6:02
Speaker 1: people worked hard, though the talent that did come in
6:06
Speaker 1: had to play a week, so they had to be
6:09
Speaker 1: here for a full week, and they had to play
6:11
Speaker 1: three nights a week. The last show started at one
6:15
Speaker 1: thirty am and went to four thirty am. At least
6:19
Speaker 1: Wow yeah, well, well he had supper clubs. They called
6:25
Speaker 1: them casinos. Of course, we could consider casino something different
6:28
Speaker 1: in our lifetime, but they were large, large supper clubs.
6:33
Speaker 1: And you couldn't fill a twelve hundred seat casino seven
6:38
Speaker 1: nights a week, three nights, three nights a day, you know,
6:43
Speaker 1: if you only relied on wealthy people. So he made
6:49
Speaker 1: sure that the middle class was well served, and that
6:52
Speaker 1: one thirty show was dedicated to second shift workers that
6:55
Speaker 1: just got off, whether it be Bethlehem or wherever, so
6:58
Speaker 1: that they could come and see a show. And that's
7:02
Speaker 1: the same thing at the at the Glen Glenn, unfortunately
7:05
Speaker 1: or fortunately depending looking at it was a very small,
7:08
Speaker 1: much smaller community. It was sort of at that point
7:10
Speaker 1: a semi rural community surrounded by you know, working class folk.
7:16
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine what it must have sounded like
7:18
Speaker 1: when eight hundred cars left the parking lot at three
7:21
Speaker 1: thirty or.
7:22
Speaker 2: Four o'clock in the morning. You know, so shows you
7:25
Speaker 2: how smart of a businessman he was.
7:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he built parking lots in our village that
7:32
Speaker 1: could accommodate one thousand cars, so you know he was.
7:35
Speaker 1: And he also had on the Glen property an amusement
7:39
Speaker 1: park alongside the casino, so it wasn't like six Flags
7:45
Speaker 1: type deal, but it was more of a kitty park,
7:48
Speaker 1: although he had some of the larger rides. So the
7:50
Speaker 1: parents would bring their kids during the day, you know,
7:53
Speaker 1: and had games and food and rides. It was all
7:56
Speaker 1: not free, but it was free to just walk around
7:58
Speaker 1: and they were You got twenty Actually the cover of
8:01
Speaker 1: the book, there's the tickets. You got twenty two for
8:06
Speaker 1: a dollar, and the parents basically sat at the beer
8:09
Speaker 1: tent or the beer garden and the kids will get
8:12
Speaker 1: the tickets and just run the eleven acres that the
8:16
Speaker 1: glen was on for several hours, so everybody was happy.
8:20
Speaker 1: The parents were happy, the kids were happy. And then
8:23
Speaker 1: at night this happened where the casino came open and
8:29
Speaker 1: major X came through.
8:31
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned in the book that Samy Davis Junior
8:33
Speaker 2: was there, Jane Mansfield, Victim own Al Martino, and Johnny Ray.
8:36
Speaker 2: Johnny Mathis was a big draw there too. Did you
8:39
Speaker 2: uncover any memorable backstage stories involving famous entertainers? Were there
8:44
Speaker 2: anybody that was particularly difficult?
8:46
Speaker 1: Sophie Tucker was not an easy lady. She was a
8:52
Speaker 1: Jewish woman who was married into or knew well had
8:56
Speaker 1: lots of connections to Buffalo, so you know. But she
8:59
Speaker 1: was tough. She was all old ballvillion and would come
9:02
Speaker 1: in and do her thing. A lot of the performers
9:07
Speaker 1: did him favors, like when Jane Mansfield came in. She
9:11
Speaker 1: announced her divorce from Mickey Hagata when she was here,
9:15
Speaker 1: so the entire national press showed up at our doorstep saying,
9:18
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I guess it was a big, big story.
9:20
Speaker 1: Then her opening act ended up being her lover, we
9:27
Speaker 1: found out many many years later, and was her daughter's
9:30
Speaker 1: father biological father, so that is all stripped out. Sammy
9:37
Speaker 1: was particularly a favorite of Harry's, and Sammy was a
9:42
Speaker 1: favorite Harry was a favorite of Sammy's. One of the
9:47
Speaker 1: first shows he did with the Maston Trio was in
9:52
Speaker 1: Buffalo and one of Harry's properties back in the thirties.
9:57
Speaker 1: He was only eight years old, and then Harry brought
10:02
Speaker 1: him back later that year at the Glen and Sunshines
10:07
Speaker 1: Sammy Davis. So it continued on. He'd come at least
10:11
Speaker 1: once a year for Harry, and he also at one
10:15
Speaker 1: point during his shows later on in the late fifties
10:21
Speaker 1: sixties was did a quick draw act with a Colt
10:24
Speaker 1: forty five because Sammy couldn't just dance and sing and
10:30
Speaker 1: be amazing in every other way, and his guns got
10:34
Speaker 1: stolen out of the glen because you know, rooms, dressing room,
10:40
Speaker 1: so there's a lot there. It just goes on and on.
10:43
Speaker 1: It was a bunch of you know, they all had
10:45
Speaker 1: to live or stay usually somewhere around the venues. The
10:51
Speaker 1: big big act stayed downtown at the Stayler Hilton, but
10:55
Speaker 1: all the others stayed in motels in our village and
10:58
Speaker 1: ate in our village. And you know this mother's brothers
11:01
Speaker 1: getting on little tricycles and teasing the kids, and the
11:05
Speaker 1: Three Stooges hanging around the village and.
11:09
Speaker 2: There.
11:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, it became very you know, it became a normal
11:13
Speaker 1: thing to see major stars moving around and nobody thought
11:17
Speaker 1: much of it after a while.
11:20
Speaker 2: Did the Three Stooges before? Were they was that early
11:23
Speaker 2: era Three Stooges or later era? When both? After? Okay? Both?
11:28
Speaker 1: So I have pictures where the original three were there
11:31
Speaker 1: and then pictures of the latter three, and they we
11:34
Speaker 1: had there where the village is is it's on a
11:38
Speaker 1: Creek more of like a river. Really. It has a
11:41
Speaker 1: has a falls, which is where where the falls falls
11:44
Speaker 1: in Glen Park Glen Falls, and they used to have
11:47
Speaker 1: like fishing derbies and such, and the Stooges would come
11:51
Speaker 1: out and help the little boys with their eights and
11:54
Speaker 1: their things, and I have pictures of them helping them.
11:56
Speaker 1: But they didn't look like the Three Stooges, is what
11:59
Speaker 1: they appeared on stage. Of course, I don't think most
12:02
Speaker 1: people realize that those were costumes. But anyway, so lots
12:05
Speaker 1: of fun stuff happened in the village and of course
12:07
Speaker 1: downtown as well, and the town casino particularly was a
12:13
Speaker 1: magnet for the major X. Marilyn Monroe came in to
12:17
Speaker 1: see El Martino, and you know, people would just drop by.
12:21
Speaker 1: I have pictures of Joe DiMaggio there with Lee Merriweather,
12:27
Speaker 1: who he was dating at that point. Just downstairs. Reputedly,
12:32
Speaker 1: and I'm not doubting it, there was a mob poker
12:36
Speaker 1: game going on pretty much.
12:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's where I was going next. But before
12:40
Speaker 2: I ask about that, just a ton of photos in
12:43
Speaker 2: this book, I mean their photos of Samy Davis Junior.
12:45
Speaker 2: You're a ton of photos. So we'll share some of those.
12:48
Speaker 1: And that was probably the biggest challenge of the book
12:51
Speaker 1: besides research, because Harry was forgotten, so everything is primary sourced.
12:56
Speaker 1: But the photos, because we didn't have cell phones that
12:59
Speaker 1: we were, you know, taking a thousand pictures of and
13:03
Speaker 1: one of the venues burned, The Williamsville Nightclub burned in
13:08
Speaker 1: when it was in Inferno in sixty eight, so all
13:13
Speaker 1: the memorabilia was in that building when it burned, so
13:16
Speaker 1: we lost a lot.
13:18
Speaker 2: One of the fascinating threads in the book is the
13:20
Speaker 2: connection between the nightclub business and organized crime. And when
13:23
Speaker 2: people hear the words nightclubs and organized crime, they often
13:27
Speaker 2: jump to movie stereotypes. How much of that image is
13:30
Speaker 2: myth and how much reflects the reality that Harry Altman
13:34
Speaker 2: was dealing with.
13:34
Speaker 1: It's hard to know exactly, but Stefan Megadino was the
13:39
Speaker 1: boss or the don of the Western New York Mob.
13:43
Speaker 1: He was with on the I guess board of directors
13:47
Speaker 1: for the National Mob. That's how prominent he was. He
13:51
Speaker 1: controlled all of southern Ontario, all the way down to
13:54
Speaker 1: Ohio and then up to Montreal, which is where the
13:57
Speaker 1: drug trade was coming in, and then every in pretty
14:01
Speaker 1: much New York except far downstate because they had quite
14:05
Speaker 1: a few people that could take care of it down there.
14:07
Speaker 1: And he was in power for over fifty years, so
14:12
Speaker 1: he was he was a presence. And then he had
14:14
Speaker 1: a number two for a long time. His name was
14:16
Speaker 1: Joe de Carlo Junior. Sorry, his father was the first
14:20
Speaker 1: don of our region. When he died, Joe Junior was
14:25
Speaker 1: in his early twenties, and he thought he was going
14:27
Speaker 1: to be the heir, and he never became the heir,
14:30
Speaker 1: but he became public enemy number one. He was literally
14:33
Speaker 1: constantly agitating our region and Magadino tried to bring him
14:38
Speaker 1: in and try to treat him with respect, but he
14:41
Speaker 1: beat up Harry in a major way in one of
14:45
Speaker 1: his properties at landed him and the publisher of our
14:51
Speaker 1: morning paper in the hospital for considerable amount of time,
14:54
Speaker 1: and he also caused a lot of other aggravation for Harry.
14:57
Speaker 1: But he finally did leave the area, not so much
15:00
Speaker 1: because of Harry, but because of Magadino. And there's I mean,
15:06
Speaker 1: I think it can be safely say that the Western
15:10
Speaker 1: New Yak mob was well integrated into Harry's business. They
15:13
Speaker 1: owned beer distributors, they owned linen companies, you know, and
15:19
Speaker 1: I have a very strong suspicion helped fund Harry's endeavors
15:23
Speaker 1: as well, particularly in the latter years when Harry went
15:27
Speaker 1: bankrupt personally in thirty six and in forty five, nine
15:32
Speaker 1: years later he built a twelve hundred seat you know, nightclub.
15:37
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to imagine, you know, him coming
15:39
Speaker 1: up with that kind of money from nowhere. So and
15:43
Speaker 1: that's part of the book, trying to explore what possibly
15:45
Speaker 1: could have sparked that kind of money.
15:51
Speaker 2: The book Down Rock podcast is part of the Boneless
15:54
Speaker 2: podcasting network. If you're a fan of classic rock and
15:56
Speaker 2: classic film like I am, go to Boneless not Lovable
16:00
Speaker 2: dot app to find over twenty great shows there that's
16:03
Speaker 2: Boneless Downlovable dot app, or just go to booked down
16:06
Speaker 2: rock dot com the Boneless podcasting network. It is what
16:10
Speaker 2: you want to be listen with confidence. How long did
16:15
Speaker 2: it take to put this book together? Because it's extensive research,
16:20
Speaker 2: five years, which I found here about right, yeah.
16:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, is it more than most Four of those years
16:26
Speaker 1: I was working full time, so that was a challenge,
16:30
Speaker 1: but it was my passion. Let's face it. I mean,
16:32
Speaker 1: you don't write something like this without it being a
16:34
Speaker 1: Passion Project.
16:37
Speaker 2: Are you from the area as a child, you grow
16:39
Speaker 2: up in this area?
16:40
Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't grow up in Williamsville. I grew up
16:42
Speaker 1: in the city where the Town Casino was. And until
16:45
Speaker 1: six months into this project, I didn't even know Harry
16:48
Speaker 1: owned the Town Casino. I was focusing on Williamsville and
16:52
Speaker 1: the Glen Casino and all of that, and then I
16:54
Speaker 1: found this out, and obviously I expanded the book and
16:59
Speaker 1: there was nothing written about Harry. I mean, there was
17:03
Speaker 1: some articles about the town, some articles about the Glen,
17:07
Speaker 1: but pretty much nothing, and which really infuriated me for
17:12
Speaker 1: many reasons. And that's why I got on this on
17:16
Speaker 1: this passion thing. And I didn't expect it to be
17:19
Speaker 1: well received commercially. I was doing it as a legacy project.
17:24
Speaker 1: But thankfully it's done very very well in the market.
17:28
Speaker 2: Not surprised. Yeah, the research is in depth and it's
17:32
Speaker 2: and it makes sense. It sounds like it's written by
17:34
Speaker 2: somebody who has a passion for it and like you say,
17:36
Speaker 2: you you grew up in that area. One of the
17:39
Speaker 2: strangest details in the book, and it's funny but strange,
17:42
Speaker 2: the mannequin that hung suspended above Main Street outside the
17:46
Speaker 2: town casino for years. Nobody seems to know exactly why
17:49
Speaker 2: it was there. I'll find the photo and put it
17:51
Speaker 2: up on the video. What what is your best theory
17:53
Speaker 2: behind this?
17:54
Speaker 1: You were the first person that from the media ever
17:57
Speaker 1: to mention it.
17:58
Speaker 2: I had to, I had to play got one odd
18:01
Speaker 2: stories from the book.
18:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is, and some one of my I have.
18:05
Speaker 1: I had a Facebook page and still exists, Harry Altman
18:09
Speaker 1: Buffalo's Master Passion. And it was primarily for just the insiders.
18:13
Speaker 1: And this was when I was writing it. It was
18:15
Speaker 1: for the family and for other researchers in Western New York.
18:20
Speaker 1: It was a closed, private group. And one of them
18:23
Speaker 1: pointed out and I had seen the mannequin, but I
18:26
Speaker 1: didn't really And then he's the one that said, I
18:28
Speaker 1: think this has to do with this. And then it
18:31
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, how could it not. I mean, well,
18:33
Speaker 1: that's my own theory anyway. But in a few years
18:37
Speaker 1: prior to him opening the casino, a woman was took
18:44
Speaker 1: her life out of a prominent hotel window in Buffalo,
18:50
Speaker 1: and it was always thought that she could push, so
18:52
Speaker 1: did she jump on her own accord and her body
18:58
Speaker 1: angle and everything is exactly like the mannequin.
19:04
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, the.
19:07
Speaker 1: Macob part of it, and you know, the dark backstory
19:10
Speaker 1: possibly of what you went through. And I did research
19:14
Speaker 1: as much as I can, and it is in the
19:15
Speaker 1: book trying to piece together the puzzle. But he kept
19:18
Speaker 1: that darn thing there for considerable amount of time, not
19:22
Speaker 1: just like one or two shows. It was there for
19:24
Speaker 1: a few seasons, and then it disappeared toward the end.
19:27
Speaker 2: The book argues that television in Las Vegas helped end
19:29
Speaker 2: the night club era. Why did those changes hit venues
19:32
Speaker 2: like the town casinos so hard?
19:34
Speaker 1: Well, lots of reasons. One is people didn't I don't know.
19:38
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, everybody did everything really dressed up.
19:41
Speaker 1: I mean, when you went to somebody's birthday party, you
19:44
Speaker 1: were you know, women were nylons and dresses and such,
19:48
Speaker 1: and you know, it was relatively inexpensive because he made
19:53
Speaker 1: sure of that, but still just getting dressed up going
19:56
Speaker 1: out for a night, particularly when most of those performers
20:00
Speaker 1: could be seen on television. Now they all have variety shows,
20:03
Speaker 1: and they had variety of variety shows. So that was
20:06
Speaker 1: number one that took the industry down. Another thing that
20:10
Speaker 1: took the industry down was the fact that the performers
20:13
Speaker 1: were tired of, you know, moving around all the time,
20:17
Speaker 1: staying in one place for a week, doing twenty one
20:20
Speaker 1: shows a week, and then moving on to the next place.
20:25
Speaker 1: Other avenues became a popular we call it Melody Fair here,
20:29
Speaker 1: but there there. This was a theater in the round
20:33
Speaker 1: that could see three thousand people and the stage actually
20:36
Speaker 1: rotated and they could come for a night, two nights,
20:39
Speaker 1: three nights, And I know that that was sort of
20:43
Speaker 1: how it was happening throughout the country. So those things
20:46
Speaker 1: became very popular and much more desired. And also in
20:53
Speaker 1: the late fifties, the organized crime took a huge hit
20:59
Speaker 1: with the Apple Meeting, which most of the major mom
21:04
Speaker 1: members were caught in so to speak, arrested in a raid,
21:08
Speaker 1: and that sort of broke the back of the mafia
21:11
Speaker 1: at that point. And if he really was in connection
21:14
Speaker 1: with them, then it may have limited his revenue, so
21:19
Speaker 1: to speak.
21:20
Speaker 2: Sure. And then after the Altman era ended, the Glen
21:23
Speaker 2: Casino became the Inferno and started hosting rock acts. As
21:28
Speaker 2: long as we get into a bit of the rock
21:29
Speaker 2: and roll, Yeah, that's what we're going to talk about. Yes,
21:33
Speaker 2: I was going to look for the rock and roll angle.
21:35
Speaker 2: So how did that transformation happen? And who are the
21:37
Speaker 2: major players here?
21:38
Speaker 1: So Harry is dying a stomach cancer in sixty five
21:43
Speaker 1: and he finds a new partner by the Glen Casino.
21:47
Speaker 1: I don't know why this partner decided by the Glen Casino,
21:49
Speaker 1: because it was the music rides were getting old and
21:54
Speaker 1: the Glen Casino wasn't doing very well. But the company
21:58
Speaker 1: that bought him was you and know him as Sports
22:00
Speaker 1: Service possibly if you have a bought a sixteen dollars
22:04
Speaker 1: glass of beer at a arena or any place. They're
22:08
Speaker 1: the major concession company throughout the world, and they're headquartered
22:13
Speaker 1: here in Buffalo. And Lou Jacobs, who was the founder
22:17
Speaker 1: of Sports Service, had his office a few doors down
22:21
Speaker 1: from Harry and the Town Casino, and they knew each other.
22:24
Speaker 1: So he bought the property, the eleven acres that was
22:27
Speaker 1: on and then Harry promptly dies. And then Harry's son
22:36
Speaker 1: in law, David Goldstein, so his middle child's husband had
22:43
Speaker 1: been running the Glen in particular for quite a few months.
22:47
Speaker 1: By this time, his Harry was so ill and he
22:50
Speaker 1: decides that he was going to convert the Glen Casino
22:54
Speaker 1: into a rock and roll venue, and that's how it began. Then,
22:58
Speaker 1: So this is sixty six September sixty six. I always
23:01
Speaker 1: say Harry jumped into the grave to avoid the rock
23:04
Speaker 1: and roll music. He wanted nothing to do with any
23:06
Speaker 1: of that.
23:08
Speaker 2: Although he did have what was the Beatles. He had
23:09
Speaker 2: an event when the Beatles became popular.
23:12
Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't have them, but yeah he had. He
23:14
Speaker 1: also had Eric Anderson. He called that the Hooton and Nanny.
23:17
Speaker 2: I mean he tried some yeah, Beatles related event. It
23:20
Speaker 2: was something I can't remember.
23:21
Speaker 1: It was maybe a stressing up like the Beatles having
23:25
Speaker 1: a contest. So yeah, he was you know, that was
23:29
Speaker 1: that's his idea of an open mind. He did have
23:31
Speaker 1: like Wayne Newton comm and Jerry Vale and all of that,
23:34
Speaker 1: but no one near anybody that he would considered rock
23:38
Speaker 1: and roll. So his son in law had a small
23:44
Speaker 1: venue that he opened for a short time in the
23:46
Speaker 1: city called the Club Commodore, and he was pretty much
23:51
Speaker 1: a teen club, but he was dabbling in bringing accent
23:55
Speaker 1: and of course Harry's connections with respect to you know,
24:00
Speaker 1: promoters nationally, it was unmatched. So David decides to make
24:06
Speaker 1: something of this empty building of eight that could seat
24:10
Speaker 1: eight hundred but could stand, so to speak, twelve hundred
24:13
Speaker 1: at least. So he decides to launch that and I
24:18
Speaker 1: have pictures that I will share with you that you
24:20
Speaker 1: can share with the atrons to see what that looked like.
24:24
Speaker 1: And he hardly did any advertising. He didn't have to.
24:27
Speaker 1: We have, you know, the University of Buffalo here, and
24:30
Speaker 1: he put some ads in their paper. But Canada is
24:36
Speaker 1: right at our doorstep, I mean us going to Canada
24:39
Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties was like I want some donuts.
24:41
Speaker 1: I'm going to get in my car and go over
24:43
Speaker 1: the Peace Prigs kind of thing.
24:44
Speaker 2: It was.
24:44
Speaker 1: Now it's a little tougher because of nine to eleven
24:46
Speaker 1: and all the restrictions. But back then, if gas was
24:49
Speaker 1: five cents cheaper, you would go over to the Canada.
24:52
Speaker 1: But the Canadian kids couldn't drink until they were twenty one.
24:56
Speaker 1: So and we were bringing some of the national acts
24:59
Speaker 1: and so we had and he was also taking money
25:01
Speaker 1: at par So he had all these Canadians coming over
25:03
Speaker 1: the border and then all these kids, you know, right
25:06
Speaker 1: at the perfect time of the boomer generation, and they
25:12
Speaker 1: filled that club every night. Yeah, so they sold thirty
25:17
Speaker 1: five cent beers Irqois beer in plastic cups, and the kids,
25:22
Speaker 1: you know, this was also a time when a lot
25:24
Speaker 1: of the boys particularly were being drafted, so this was
25:27
Speaker 1: their big hurrah, you know, in their minds now, nostalgic wise,
25:30
Speaker 1: this is their wonderful years. You know. It was crazy
25:35
Speaker 1: so and they were bringing good accent too, So all
25:39
Speaker 1: of those things put together at a reasonable cost. There
25:44
Speaker 1: was a small in the building itself, was a small
25:47
Speaker 1: cocktail lounge that Harry had and they converted into what
25:50
Speaker 1: they called the Inferno. That was the Inferno Room, and
25:52
Speaker 1: they had go go girls and cages and a U
25:56
Speaker 1: shaped bar and sometimes they had a band above the
26:00
Speaker 1: U shape bar, and it was the only place where
26:01
Speaker 1: they sold hard liquor. But most of the space, which
26:05
Speaker 1: they called half Hell's half Acre, I love that name,
26:09
Speaker 1: was the massive building with the stage, and again the
26:15
Speaker 1: kids could just wander in. They were pretty strict with
26:18
Speaker 1: respect to making sure the kids were over eighteen, but
26:23
Speaker 1: if you got in, it was a you know, a
26:25
Speaker 1: dream for a kid of that age. And they could
26:28
Speaker 1: stay there all night if they want to, and watch
26:30
Speaker 1: the bands come.
26:31
Speaker 2: Through from a national standpoint, What did it mean to
26:34
Speaker 2: be able to land acts like Slide, the Family Stone,
26:36
Speaker 2: Bob Seger System, What did it mean for a club
26:39
Speaker 2: like The Inferno to land acts of that caliber?
26:41
Speaker 1: Yeah?
26:42
Speaker 2: Put them on the map.
26:43
Speaker 1: Right, Put them on the map. And I can make
26:45
Speaker 1: an argument, and I may even write an essay at
26:47
Speaker 1: some point about how if we would have just kept going,
26:51
Speaker 1: and we did keep going. The Inferno burned in sixty eight.
26:56
Speaker 1: That was the headline in Stars and Stripes. It was
27:01
Speaker 1: the heartbreaking event in the region. It was the largest
27:05
Speaker 1: fire at that time in Erie County, which is our county.
27:08
Speaker 1: It was huge because the building was large, It was
27:10
Speaker 1: all wood, it was built in thirty six. There were
27:12
Speaker 1: probably pennies in the fuses. It burned really big time,
27:17
Speaker 1: and all these kids that were just at the cusp
27:19
Speaker 1: of turning eighteen were crying, and the kids that that
27:23
Speaker 1: could have gone in there, or did go in there
27:24
Speaker 1: earlier in the week or whatever crying too. It was
27:27
Speaker 1: just like this sobfest here. But David went on to
27:33
Speaker 1: build Gilligans, which was also a massive success, and then
27:37
Speaker 1: went on to take part in the franchise of Uncle Sam's,
27:42
Speaker 1: which headline music until the disco area era, and then
27:45
Speaker 1: they relied were on music.
27:47
Speaker 2: Are there nefarious reasons behind these fires?
27:50
Speaker 1: I mean, did you notice a few in the books?
27:52
Speaker 2: Right? I mean it seems to be you know, and
27:56
Speaker 2: when you call your club the inferno, I guess that
27:58
Speaker 2: that doesn't bode well.
28:00
Speaker 1: They had no reason to close it down.
28:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't like it was It wasn't like it
28:05
Speaker 2: was losing money.
28:05
Speaker 1: And you want to know, they couldn't even I mean
28:07
Speaker 1: I talked to the people that were at the cashier
28:10
Speaker 1: registers and everything. He could even close the doors to
28:13
Speaker 1: the machines. But if you look at the cover of
28:17
Speaker 1: Harry's book, you'll see in his sunglasses it's fire that
28:23
Speaker 1: was intentional, because fire seems to have followed Harry throughout
28:26
Speaker 1: his career. Of course he's dead by now, so he
28:30
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, unless he had some
28:32
Speaker 1: magic from beyond life beyond. But yeah, there was a
28:38
Speaker 1: second building on the property, in the back of the property,
28:42
Speaker 1: which was as large as the very very large as
28:45
Speaker 1: where they they had a second venue where they had
28:48
Speaker 1: lots of events in a lot of jazz artists. Harry
28:52
Speaker 1: was big, big on jazz. Joe Rico was just down
28:55
Speaker 1: the street with his radio station. So that burns in
29:00
Speaker 1: seventy three, So another huge fire in that same basically
29:05
Speaker 1: same eight eleven acres, So yeah it did. Now that
29:10
Speaker 1: second fire was definitely arson because not only was that
29:15
Speaker 1: fire on fire, not only that building on fire, but
29:18
Speaker 1: all the little buildings on the property were on fire
29:20
Speaker 1: as well, So we know for sure that was an
29:24
Speaker 1: They came up with the concept of everything was unproven
29:28
Speaker 1: with the inferno, but I you know, rumors here are
29:32
Speaker 1: I've always been that the building did not die a
29:36
Speaker 1: natural death.
29:37
Speaker 2: So but it remains a mystery to this day.
29:40
Speaker 1: Remains a mystery. And I talked to the first responders.
29:42
Speaker 1: I mean, Williams Wille is a village of about three
29:46
Speaker 1: thousand people and the families stay here forever, so I
29:50
Speaker 1: could I could dig down if I wanted to, and
29:52
Speaker 1: I did so. But yeah, that the inferno burning. But
29:56
Speaker 1: again it was owned by sports Service by what was
30:01
Speaker 1: now what's now called Aller and North, so it wouldn't
30:04
Speaker 1: have necessarily had any reason for Goldstein to do it
30:07
Speaker 1: because he was just manufacturing money out of that building
30:10
Speaker 1: at that point.
30:13
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
30:15
Speaker 2: If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening,
30:19
Speaker 2: thank you so much for your support, and make sure
30:21
Speaker 2: you tell a friend, a family member, share on social
30:24
Speaker 2: media and let people know about Booked on Rock. And
30:27
Speaker 2: if you do like the podcast, make sure you subscribe
30:30
Speaker 2: give a five star review. Wherever you listen to the
30:32
Speaker 2: Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
30:37
Speaker 2: tune in in on YouTube music. You can check out
30:40
Speaker 2: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
30:43
Speaker 2: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
30:46
Speaker 2: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
30:49
Speaker 2: to the show. Susan Fencer is the author of Harry
30:53
Speaker 2: Altman Buffalo's Master Showman. Let's get into Gilligans a little
30:57
Speaker 2: bit More. One of the more fascinating sets discusses this
31:02
Speaker 2: era run by the same management after the Inferno Fire,
31:06
Speaker 2: hosted Deep Purple Cactus. Arthur Brown with his famous flaming helmet.
31:12
Speaker 2: Sorry they flames, just.
31:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, maybe it's just the theme.
31:17
Speaker 2: Ye maybe maybe. Arthur Brown was the one that started
31:21
Speaker 2: Joe Cocker Chicago and later promoted Rod Stewart and faces
31:25
Speaker 2: those shows. Deep Purple was considered one of the loudest
31:27
Speaker 2: bands in the world at the time. Did you uncover
31:29
Speaker 2: any stories from those legendary shows?
31:32
Speaker 1: So this book is about Harry. So Harry dies in
31:36
Speaker 1: sixty six, and all of what you just said happens
31:39
Speaker 1: after he dies. And you know, the instinct was is
31:43
Speaker 1: you know, where do I cut this off? You know?
31:46
Speaker 1: But I could not cut not cut it off. This
31:49
Speaker 1: is the era that people remember that are alive still,
31:52
Speaker 1: you know, and you know the stories and the websites
31:56
Speaker 1: and the book, you know, so I kept it there.
32:00
Speaker 1: But I am not a rock historian. I relied on
32:03
Speaker 1: Robert Paxson, not that he was the only thing I
32:06
Speaker 1: relied on, but he was heavily involved in all that
32:09
Speaker 1: in terms of helping me do the research. But David
32:17
Speaker 1: Goldstein had a son, Ron Goldstein, and Ron starts his
32:22
Speaker 1: own promoting company, Spur, and he takes on a lot
32:29
Speaker 1: of these acts and takes it around Buffalo in our
32:32
Speaker 1: Memorial Auditorium and such. So they became a much more
32:41
Speaker 1: popular or public promotion. Where Harry just did it for
32:44
Speaker 1: his own business, they did it for a lot of
32:46
Speaker 1: other things. The runner, the original runner for the Inferno,
32:52
Speaker 1: was a guy named you think his name Harvey Weinstein,
32:55
Speaker 1: because of course, yeah, Harvey went to school here in Buffalo,
33:00
Speaker 1: of state, and he and his brother and Quirky Burger.
33:06
Speaker 1: Right starts Harvey and Quirky, which was a promoting company
33:10
Speaker 1: for rock acts. His his box office ultimately ends up
33:15
Speaker 1: being at for quite a time at the at Ub.
33:20
Speaker 1: But that is, you know, a prominent and not too
33:24
Speaker 1: much has been written about those early years of Harvey's
33:27
Speaker 1: presence in our world. So he you know, he learns
33:34
Speaker 1: his trade on the back of the Inferno and goes on.
33:38
Speaker 1: I remember when he left Buffalo, we all thought he'll
33:41
Speaker 1: never make anything of himself. But we were right and
33:44
Speaker 1: we were wrong at the same time.
33:46
Speaker 2: What made what made Gilligans such a good venue for
33:50
Speaker 2: for hard rock acts or it was ere any particular
33:52
Speaker 2: like Cats recorded, It was a show there. I mean
33:57
Speaker 2: it's you call like the film where it's like Buffalo's film.
34:00
Speaker 1: It was a former lumber yard, so it was very large,
34:06
Speaker 1: high ceilings. I'm sure acoustically, you know, presented because there
34:10
Speaker 1: was some money behind it. And you know, we were
34:14
Speaker 1: on that. We were not in New York, New York,
34:17
Speaker 1: but we were right again at the at the Bridge
34:21
Speaker 1: so a lot of these acts were really wanting to
34:25
Speaker 1: get the Canadian market, and the Lumberyard was just off
34:31
Speaker 1: our through ay I ninety, so it came off. You know,
34:36
Speaker 1: everybody could just come off the the the Peace Bridge
34:41
Speaker 1: and just within ten minutes be at this major club.
34:45
Speaker 1: And we have a very deep, I believe history of
34:52
Speaker 1: music here in Buffalo. And like I said, I I
34:54
Speaker 1: started saying before that I would hope at some point
34:56
Speaker 1: to write an essay and how if we could have
34:58
Speaker 1: kept this going, we could have, I believe, and I'm
35:03
Speaker 1: you know, taking on Cleveland for the rights to say
35:06
Speaker 1: that we were, you know, the start the rock and
35:10
Speaker 1: roll in a big way. We didn't have Alan Friedman though,
35:14
Speaker 1: we didn't have that nice man saying these nice things,
35:16
Speaker 1: but we had a lot of other very cool people,
35:19
Speaker 1: George Lorenz and Tommy Shannon and w KBW was a
35:24
Speaker 1: station that could be here for all the way down
35:26
Speaker 1: East coast and they promoted major acts here and plus
35:30
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, Rick James and many great
35:33
Speaker 1: acts came out if here.
35:35
Speaker 2: The Googles, of course, and I was about to say, yeah,
35:37
Speaker 2: my generation knows the Google dolls very well. From Buffalo,
35:39
Speaker 2: New York.
35:40
Speaker 1: So one of the owners now, so unlike the inferno
35:45
Speaker 1: that burned the Town Casino remained. It's still standing and
35:53
Speaker 1: it's now called the Town Ballroom and it has been
35:58
Speaker 1: the Tom Ballroom for twenty years. And one of those
36:00
Speaker 1: people that own the building was the manager for Gudau.
36:06
Speaker 1: So it's a space that really promotes indie music in
36:11
Speaker 1: a big way. And of course that space is rather large,
36:13
Speaker 1: so they do really well there. But it all interconnects.
36:17
Speaker 1: I'm sure it does in every city, but in Buffalo,
36:21
Speaker 1: we're a city that thinks it's a town, and you know,
36:23
Speaker 1: everybody knows everybody kind of thing.
36:27
Speaker 2: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookednrock dot com. There
36:31
Speaker 2: you can find all the back episodes of the show,
36:33
Speaker 2: the latest episode in video and audio, links to all
36:36
Speaker 2: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
36:38
Speaker 2: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
36:44
Speaker 2: and x. Also check out the booked on Rock blog.
36:47
Speaker 2: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
36:50
Speaker 2: hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
36:53
Speaker 2: the booked on Rock online store. Pick up some booked
36:55
Speaker 2: on Rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot Com.
37:00
Speaker 2: There are the bands like Google Dolls that made it big.
37:02
Speaker 2: There are bands like Wilmer and the Dukes who people
37:05
Speaker 2: in that area may know about. They were essentially the
37:08
Speaker 2: house band at the Inferno, sold out Wednesday nights. For
37:11
Speaker 2: those unfamiliar with that band, why were they such a
37:14
Speaker 2: phenomenon in Western New York and what became of them?
37:17
Speaker 1: Well, Wilmer was a black man who played the sacks,
37:20
Speaker 1: had amazing voice, had a charisma that was unmatched. He
37:24
Speaker 1: had three band members that were white, which is I think,
37:28
Speaker 1: in itself a very rare thing. But the band in
37:31
Speaker 1: Animal House is based on Wilmer's and the Dukes states
37:37
Speaker 1: they were just like, yeah, you're up the party band,
37:41
Speaker 1: you know, and they played hard, and Wilmer ran around
37:45
Speaker 1: that stage and you know, he stole costumes from the
37:49
Speaker 1: doormen and all kinds of fun stuff. He played all
37:52
Speaker 1: the local colleges. When I say local, I mean Western
37:57
Speaker 1: New York, so all the way to Syracuse and roch
38:00
Speaker 1: And and there are a lot of them here. So
38:02
Speaker 1: he became had a great following. Yeah, there was. They
38:08
Speaker 1: did make a tribute band to him that just sort
38:11
Speaker 1: of ended in the last couple of years, but he
38:13
Speaker 1: has also unfortunately ended in the last couple of years
38:15
Speaker 1: as well. He has died. But it yeah, it's and
38:19
Speaker 1: again they had They came out with a record which
38:22
Speaker 1: was very big in Buffalo, which would be expected, but
38:24
Speaker 1: also very big in southern Ontario, which again, based on
38:27
Speaker 1: what we know, was also expected.
38:29
Speaker 2: I haven't Wrightman. The story is that he produced Animal House.
38:33
Speaker 2: John Landis directed it, but I haven't write producer. And
38:35
Speaker 2: the story is that he saw he saw Wilmer in
38:39
Speaker 2: the Dukes.
38:40
Speaker 1: He was from Hamilton, which is you know, even closer
38:43
Speaker 1: from to us from than Toronto is. It's very close.
38:46
Speaker 1: And according to his sister, he came down here and
38:49
Speaker 1: was inspired by a Wilmer and when when he produced,
38:52
Speaker 1: he decided that that would be the kind of band
38:54
Speaker 1: that would be an Animal House.
38:55
Speaker 2: Okay. The book notes that the Vibrados, one of the
38:58
Speaker 2: bands associated with Altman's venues, featured a mill Lewandowski later
39:03
Speaker 2: known as Corey Wells of Three Dog Night.
39:06
Speaker 1: Yes Gary Malbur who was the drummer for Steve Miller
39:10
Speaker 1: and Bruce Springsteen.
39:13
Speaker 2: He was part of Raven, Yeah, Raven, one of the
39:16
Speaker 2: most fascinating what if stories in that book.
39:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a heartbreaker. I have spoken to their manager,
39:22
Speaker 1: who took a left turn in life, had some addiction
39:27
Speaker 1: problems and became started his own religious movement. I guess
39:32
Speaker 1: you would say, yeah. But anyway, one of the guitarists
39:37
Speaker 1: for Raven could was seventeen and couldn't get in the Inferno,
39:40
Speaker 1: so they put him in a car and ran the
39:44
Speaker 1: lines from the sound system into the car and he
39:47
Speaker 1: played from the vehicle. But Amo is another Ama Lewandowski.
39:53
Speaker 1: We're the second largest Polish community in the United States,
39:56
Speaker 1: so Amo of course became Corey Wells. A lot of major,
40:03
Speaker 1: you know, band members that were the frontmen when they
40:09
Speaker 1: were either in the Inferno or Gilligans went on to
40:13
Speaker 1: become well respected.
40:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking at the section on Raven nineteen sixty
40:20
Speaker 2: seven and nineteen seventy.
40:22
Speaker 1: The Raven has a huge back story as to what
40:25
Speaker 1: it had been prior to as these band members combined themselves.
40:31
Speaker 2: And they signed a Columbia, didn't they.
40:33
Speaker 1: Yes, they did. I think the pictures yep, the picture
40:37
Speaker 1: is there. And they also did a recording at the Inferno,
40:41
Speaker 1: which they didn't think. I think they just did it
40:45
Speaker 1: for themselves, So it was Raven live at the inferno
40:52
Speaker 1: and then when the building burns, they take the most
40:55
Speaker 1: famous picture of the building at that juncture, and they
40:59
Speaker 1: make it the cover of this album with their faces
41:04
Speaker 1: in CPA around the fire, and it's that they and
41:09
Speaker 1: they say it's one of the best live music that
41:12
Speaker 1: you can hear of that particular era.
41:15
Speaker 2: Discovery Records. Yeah, recorded in sixty seven, came out in sixty.
41:19
Speaker 1: Nine right after the fire, right, yeah.
41:22
Speaker 2: I know. There was the Twigs too, they opened for
41:24
Speaker 2: the Doors.
41:25
Speaker 1: Yes.
41:26
Speaker 2: Of all these bands, which which do you think had
41:29
Speaker 2: the best chance to become the next national rock act?
41:32
Speaker 1: I think Raven did. I mean they ended up going
41:34
Speaker 1: to New York. I asked their manager why they broke up,
41:39
Speaker 1: but he said, you know, they were just young kids
41:42
Speaker 1: trying to figure things out. And they all had, you know,
41:47
Speaker 1: different objectives. Some went into production music production as opposed
41:52
Speaker 1: to playing, like I said, some didn't. Some Tom Calandra
41:57
Speaker 1: became a major voice of the u KBW, and he
42:00
Speaker 1: wrote all our jingles locally and that kind of thing.
42:04
Speaker 1: Tony Galla he's still going and he started his career
42:09
Speaker 1: like on an American idol kind of concept way back
42:11
Speaker 1: when he was younger and still playing. So it's sad
42:16
Speaker 1: they were in New York and I'm trying to I
42:18
Speaker 1: don't think I read as much as I could in
42:21
Speaker 1: my book about them, but they Jimmy Hendrix plays a
42:26
Speaker 1: role in They're in there, you know their story as well,
42:32
Speaker 1: So they had the most chance. I think they were
42:35
Speaker 1: closest they had a national contract. Barbara Saint Clair also
42:42
Speaker 1: as a blues band singer, also could have made something
42:49
Speaker 1: she wasn't. A lot of songs and a lot of recordings,
42:52
Speaker 1: but not necessarily as as that, you know, as background
42:56
Speaker 1: singer or whatever. So she could have done a lot
42:59
Speaker 1: of great things as well.
43:01
Speaker 2: And the pincushions that was her banded the pin.
43:03
Speaker 1: Cushion, I know, is that the coolest thing?
43:05
Speaker 2: K O O s H. I n s bringing it
43:08
Speaker 2: back to Harry Altman because really this it all starts
43:12
Speaker 2: with him. So what do you think he should be remembered?
43:16
Speaker 2: Mostly for as a business band he.
43:20
Speaker 1: Created the ecosystem. I think he you know, I mean,
43:24
Speaker 1: he was a great promoter. Obviously, he was an event planner.
43:27
Speaker 1: He could run two nightclubs at the same time and
43:30
Speaker 1: really run him not just being a figurehead kind of guy,
43:34
Speaker 1: very involved. I don't think when he whenever he slept,
43:36
Speaker 1: I don't know, but he was, you know, right in there.
43:39
Speaker 1: He obviously trained with people behind him, but he you know,
43:44
Speaker 1: he created the world, knowing Buffalo was a place where
43:48
Speaker 1: music happened. And you know, again within he dies in May,
43:54
Speaker 1: and then the Inferno opens in September, so right after
43:59
Speaker 1: his past passing, you know, it reverberates and re reforms
44:05
Speaker 1: into a different animal, but still relying on a lot
44:11
Speaker 1: of the same elements, you know, the media involvement, people, promoters,
44:19
Speaker 1: you know, I can sure parents said, how could bad
44:21
Speaker 1: it be? They're just going to the glen Causino, not
44:23
Speaker 1: knowing how bad it could be. But anyway, and I said,
44:28
Speaker 1: they kept it as much as they could, as clean
44:29
Speaker 1: as they could. I can't speak to it. I was
44:31
Speaker 1: too young to know. But it was not known as
44:35
Speaker 1: you know, for its drug use. Certainly is alcohol use,
44:39
Speaker 1: like I said, thirty five cent beers. How can you
44:41
Speaker 1: go bad with that? But you know they picked up
44:44
Speaker 1: the mayor. Mayor was mad. He ran by the road
44:48
Speaker 1: nearest the glen and screamed at the kids as they
44:52
Speaker 1: were waiting to get in the building and they got
44:53
Speaker 1: and they took them and this is how they this
44:55
Speaker 1: was there. I'm going to take make it to the man.
44:58
Speaker 1: They picked the car up and turned it around. But
45:02
Speaker 1: I mean it's as we're bad as I ever heard
45:03
Speaker 1: anything getting you know.
45:07
Speaker 2: So yeah, but it reminds me of like every great
45:10
Speaker 2: band takes inspiration from, you know, the bands and artists
45:16
Speaker 2: before then going back to even classical music, who created
45:19
Speaker 2: the blueprint for it, And it sounds like he laid
45:21
Speaker 2: the foundation for what it would become those you all
45:25
Speaker 2: those years later. So today, where does what's there at
45:30
Speaker 2: that location now where the inferno was and Harry's club so.
45:35
Speaker 1: To speak, it back in Okay?
45:36
Speaker 2: So the are the museums that you can go to
45:39
Speaker 2: and look up a lot?
45:41
Speaker 1: Do you think that would be nice?
45:42
Speaker 2: Right? It'd be great to look at all the article?
45:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean ice, And I'm not saying the
45:49
Speaker 1: voices of our village and the voices of the kids
45:51
Speaker 1: that were kids during this era spoke to me loudly
45:55
Speaker 1: when I was writing this book. But this book came
45:57
Speaker 1: out in November, so we're still exploring what that future
46:01
Speaker 1: looks like for remembering that era, the town casino is
46:08
Speaker 1: done well because you have two men operating it. They've
46:12
Speaker 1: kept it fairly comparable in architecturally from that era, and
46:20
Speaker 1: they even made a side room that honors the town
46:23
Speaker 1: casino era. But we have nothing here of any note
46:29
Speaker 1: that remembers the inferno, and certainly nothing that remembers Gilligan's.
46:34
Speaker 1: I mean, the Gilligan got fought, really hired by the
46:36
Speaker 1: populace of that era to not come into that region.
46:40
Speaker 1: But it has Facebook pages, it has lots of memory there.
46:43
Speaker 1: But right now, what the glen is is like one
46:45
Speaker 1: of the most beautiful passive parks that you could possibly be,
46:48
Speaker 1: and it's got this beautiful waterfall, and our oldest building
46:53
Speaker 1: in our region, eighteen eleven Mill is right above the
46:57
Speaker 1: escarpment look overlooking it, and it's all architecturally greenscaped, and
47:05
Speaker 1: it's where all the brides get their pictures done for
47:07
Speaker 1: their wedding. And the only thing that survives that era
47:11
Speaker 1: is a small bridge that goes over the duck ponds
47:15
Speaker 1: that are there. Everything they obliterated any memory of that era.
47:22
Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of my time speaking with
47:25
Speaker 1: groups and organizations. We're starting a fundraiser actually already started
47:28
Speaker 1: to run for the bridge. At least keep that going.
47:30
Speaker 1: But you have to think about what it was like
47:32
Speaker 1: for the people in the village at that time. Not
47:35
Speaker 1: only all those people dumping out of the Glenn Casino
47:42
Speaker 1: in all godly hours, but now kids are walking the
47:45
Speaker 1: streets at three o'clock in the morning, you know, And
47:50
Speaker 1: it was, you know, very intense. And I think our region,
47:54
Speaker 1: our village said enough of this. We've been living like
47:58
Speaker 1: this since the thirties, so now it's thirty years later.
48:00
Speaker 1: We've been living with this kind of sound and noise
48:04
Speaker 1: and commotion, and they created one of the most passive
48:07
Speaker 1: places that you could ever imagine through a federal grant.
48:10
Speaker 1: They didn't raise the money a federal grant. I mean,
48:12
Speaker 1: they did raise the money through a grant, but it
48:14
Speaker 1: wasn't like a for profit type deal. So it's beautiful,
48:19
Speaker 1: and implore everybody come to you. But we are working
48:22
Speaker 1: on at least honoring Altman and honoring particularly the inferno,
48:28
Speaker 1: because that's been lost.
48:29
Speaker 2: It's a part of the history.
48:31
Speaker 1: Right and we have some very good musical i'm sorry
48:36
Speaker 1: music historians here of that era and they know it all,
48:40
Speaker 1: and I'm like, really, encouraging them because they're not young
48:42
Speaker 1: anymore either, and it's all in their head, you know,
48:47
Speaker 1: and unless they get it on paper, all that history
48:51
Speaker 1: history is going to be lost.
48:52
Speaker 2: Ell. This book is going to I think it's going
48:54
Speaker 2: to go a long way towards making sure that people
48:57
Speaker 2: know about this and hopefully, hopefully this podcast helps a
49:01
Speaker 2: little bit with that as well.
49:02
Speaker 1: This is the first time anybody has focused on the
49:05
Speaker 1: Inferno era. Yep. And like I said, I didn't want
49:10
Speaker 1: to include. I did not not want included. But I'm like,
49:13
Speaker 1: this is really not a biography that's not about him,
49:16
Speaker 1: But how can you not It's so important to.
49:18
Speaker 2: At least line draws right through that entire history and
49:22
Speaker 2: starts with Harry Altman. Harry Altman, Buffalo's master showman. Out
49:25
Speaker 2: now find out where books are sold. Go to book
49:28
Speaker 2: down rock dot com to find your nearest bookstore in
49:30
Speaker 2: the Buffalo area. You can go there. And where can
49:33
Speaker 2: people find you online? Susan, what are links that you
49:35
Speaker 2: want people to go to?
49:37
Speaker 1: I have Susan Fenster dot com Harris Singly as I
49:40
Speaker 1: have to say that, and you can look there. I
49:43
Speaker 1: also have a very active Facebook group. Harry Altman and
49:48
Speaker 1: as many pictures that you see in the book, or
49:50
Speaker 1: at least three times as much on that face group
49:54
Speaker 1: Facebook group, So anybody that has been sharing over the
49:58
Speaker 1: last course the last six years, you know, all those
50:01
Speaker 1: photos have been captured. Not all of them were reproducible
50:04
Speaker 1: on paper, so some really great photos of the performers.
50:10
Speaker 1: And then there is the Inferno Facebook group, and one
50:14
Speaker 1: of our local who actually worked at the Inferno has
50:19
Speaker 1: been keeping that up so you can see pictures of
50:22
Speaker 1: the performers, not necessarily always in the Inferno, but the
50:26
Speaker 1: stories and when they came and what songs they played
50:28
Speaker 1: and all that kind of thing. So the Inferno Facebook
50:31
Speaker 1: group also you should keep an eye open for.
50:34
Speaker 2: I literally just joined as you were describing it, so
50:37
Speaker 2: I clicked clicked down there, So there we go. I
50:40
Speaker 2: will put a link in the show notes for that.
50:41
Speaker 2: That link is also on your website. I see here too,
50:43
Speaker 2: a nice shot of you there with a book.
50:45
Speaker 1: Like it, very sophisticated. There.
50:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is great, Thank you, Susan. I appreciate this.
50:52
Speaker 2: I'm glad, glad we can be a part of this
50:55
Speaker 2: and all the best on the book and the future projects,
50:58
Speaker 2: and we'll see what because of this in the future.
51:01
Speaker 2: So yeah, thank you again, Susan, thank you. That's it,
51:10
Speaker 2: it's in the books.