Latest / Rusty's Garage / The Motorsport Brief: The Brodie Kostecki and Erebus Story

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The Motorsport Brief: The Brodie Kostecki and Erebus Story · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:05
  Welcome to the Motorsport Brief.
• 0:06
  It's Monday the 12th of February 2024.
• 0:08
  Today we are going to talk about the story that's been on everyone's lips in supercars for about the past week now, with some consideration for all sides.
• 0:21
  G'day everyone, Rusty here.
• 0:22
  Hope you're all well.
• 0:23
  Normally, my pods are one-on-one conversations.
• 0:26
  Today, the short cast has a bit more of a panel feel about it, and we're going to bounce around the breakdown between the Supercars champion, Brodie Kostecki, and the champion team, Erebus.
• 0:36
  Just months, weeks, really, after they both clinched those respective titles for the first time.
• 0:41
  It was a huge achievement for both of them.
• 0:44
  The fallout from this incredible story that you're all talking about.
• 0:48
  Can they move forward, and how?
• 0:51
  To help me with this, I'm joined by Boost Mobile founder Peter Aderton, who's worked with both sides over the past couple of years.
• 0:57
  Remember, he was a driving force in the Greg Murphy-Richie Stanaway wildcard, which Erebus ran.
• 1:03
  When you think about it, that was effectively two years in the making because of the pandemic interruptions.
• 1:09
  So working alongside Erebus during the announcements, testing the race, which helped significantly in Richie's return to the sport,
• 1:17
  And Peter has also been a huge supporter of Brody's NASCAR program.
• 1:22
  Now, he's unashamedly outspoken, and my want in getting him on has nothing to do, actually, with headlines or clickbait soundbites.
• 1:32
  I don't give a shit about that stuff.
• 1:34
  It is more about him knowing both sides.
• 1:37
  Also with us for the chat is award-winning journalist Simon Chapman, who's worked on both sides of the Tasman for outlets like Velocity News, Speed Cafe, and more recently for Nine's Wide World of Sports.
• 1:50
  Peter is in LA for this, Simon's in Sydney, I'm at Sandown ahead of a big weekend of racing here.
• 1:56
  I have, for the record, asked Brody if he would like to come on.
• 2:00
  And for Barry Ryan or team owner Betty Clemenco from Erebus, if they wanted to have a chance
• 2:05
  their say, I would make the platform available and allow them to do that in their words.
• 2:09
  I haven't pushed that stuff because this is heavy and they're all working through it.
• 2:14
  Erebus have said, not right now, which is understandable.
• 2:18
  Brodie has wisely maintained a silence too, which I think shows great dignity as a champion.
• 2:24
  It's what most of us would do if confronted with a similar situation.
• 2:29
  Really, we need to hear from the actual parties in this situation, but we also have to give that time.
• 2:36
  So my goal here is not to smash anyone up, but to have a robust conversation about the various aspects that we know so far, just to talk about it.
• 2:47
  Peter, Simon, welcome.
• 2:48
  Thank you both for coming on.
• 2:50
  Thanks for having us, Rusty.
• 2:52
  Cheers, Rusty.
• 2:53
  Hey, can you recall anything like this happening before in motorsport or sport generally, a kind of messy, high-profile split when it involves champions on the eve of the title defence effectively?
• 3:07
  I mean, I've never seen anything like it in my life.
• 3:11
  And I've got to tell you, I've also never seen anyone handle something so poorly.
• 3:17
  So it is very, very surprising that we are where we are, especially in 2024, when I think we all realize what needs to happen to fix this.
• 3:29
  Can we break it down a little bit more, Peter, if you don't mind?
• 3:31
  I mean, the simple question most fans are asking right now is why?
• 3:37
  How did it get to this?
• 3:39
  Is there anything you can share with us that might shed some light on that?
• 3:43
  You know, I don't want to speak for Brodie.
• 3:46
  Brodie has to speak for himself.
• 3:48
  But, you know...
• 3:49
  Knowing the relationship, people forget that we actually sponsored the Erebus car for a while, right?
• 3:54
  And we go back even to the early days when Brody first went to Erebus.
• 3:57
  He was a Boost Mobile ambassador, but then he was also sponsored by Boost in the car itself.
• 4:03
  The relationship clearly is broken down.
• 4:07
  Some people have personality clashes.
• 4:09
  There's some people who, by the way, you'll find this surprising, Rusty, who actually can't work with me.
• 4:15
  They find it very hard to work with me and it's not that, you know, I'm trying to be, you know, mean to them.
• 4:21
  It's just that we have a difference of opinion and we have a different approach to things.
• 4:24
  So I think what you see right now is, you know, a relationship that's broken down.
• 4:29
  I think it's broken down over time.
• 4:30
  I don't think it happened over Christmas.
• 4:32
  I think this is a relationship that has broken down for a while.
• 4:36
  You only have to look at the personality of the guys who run the team and own the team to understand that it takes a very special person, in my opinion, to be able to work with someone who has that approach in life.
• 4:48
  And again, I've seen that because sometimes I can be very outspoken and loud.
• 4:53
  And then sometimes that rubs people the wrong way.
• 4:57
  Simon, there's been talk of, to Peter's point there, about the split maybe even happening around Talon Bend last year, rumours of some unrest around Will Brown perhaps not being allowed to attend the end-of-year celebrations.
• 5:10
  Now, I can't verify either of those things without speaking to the relevant parties, to be fair.
• 5:15
  But do we have an indication, like Peter has suggested there, how long this has been strained for?
• 5:20
  Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head in terms of the timeline.
• 5:25
  From the sounds of things,
• 5:27
  Basically, the middle of last year, there's been a bit of a breakdown, largely surrounding Will Brown's move to AAA.
• 5:35
  And for whatever reason, things have just turned sour after that.
• 5:39
  But by all accounts...
• 5:42
  Barry was unhappy.
• 5:44
  Exactly why, we don't know.
• 5:47
  But even with all the success that they enjoyed after that, with Brodie winning the championship, things have just deteriorated further and further.
• 5:55
  And it just basically seems that between Will, Brodie and Barry, that there's just unrest, basically.
• 6:05
  So, yeah, it's a remarkable set of circumstances where...
• 6:11
  the guy who's won the championship with the championship winning team no longer wants to drive there.
• 6:17
  It's basically, it just sounds like there's been a major breakdown between two of those particular parties.
• 6:26
  I'd shed another light on it as well.
• 6:28
  Yeah.
• 6:30
  This all kind of broke down as tail and bend, as you said.
• 6:34
  What happened before tail and bend?
• 6:35
  The NASCAR event.
• 6:38
  And so obviously I was a sponsor of the NASCAR event.
• 6:43
  I think that a lot of it had to do with Brody coming across here and doing the NASCAR.
• 6:47
  And again, I don't know this for a fact, but I also think that they're not the biggest fans of me either.
• 6:52
  And so I think when, you know, Mobile X and our brand stood up and supported Brody in the NASCAR, I think that that might have created some tension internally.
• 7:01
  So I think you've got to look at the catalyst and I'm not 100% sure that they were super fans of him coming over here and racing NASCAR.
• 7:10
  and in particular racing for me.
• 7:12
  And so I think that, you know, again, maybe it's just my second guessing, but I would look at the timing of that to say that that may have had an impact on it.
• 7:21
  And I think, obviously, Brody's extremely loyal.
• 7:24
  He obviously wants to come to America, and he saw that we stepped up and helped him out.
• 7:28
  So I think that that has something to do with it, because the timing just can't be coincidental that when he got back from the US, it all broke down.
• 7:36
  Is he okay, Peter?
• 7:37
  Have you spoken to Brody?
• 7:38
  Yeah, no, look, I've said this to people, you know, if you're in a relationship, I don't care if it's personal or professional, and it's a toxic relationship, that takes a mental strain on you.
• 7:48
  I don't care who you are, right?
• 7:49
  Whether you're your husband or a wife or you're in business.
• 7:53
  The only way to get out of that toxic environment is to remove yourself from the environment.
• 7:58
  So I think since Brody has done that, I think he has removed himself from that experience.
• 8:04
  You know what?
• 8:04
  The shame of this whole thing, Rusty, is this could be fixed so fast.
• 8:08
  Right.
• 8:09
  Barry and Betty spend their whole lives telling everybody, if you're not happy, we'll let you go.
• 8:12
  Right.
• 8:12
  Davey, you're not happy.
• 8:13
  We'll let you go.
• 8:14
  Will, you're not happy.
• 8:15
  But suddenly when Brody says, I'm not happy, I want to go, then suddenly there's a handbrake that comes on.
• 8:20
  Right.
• 8:20
  And so to me, it seems more personal because, you know, if you're going to do it for everybody else, let Will Brown go.
• 8:27
  Then why wouldn't you let why wouldn't you let Brody go?
• 8:30
  I think that Betty and Barry are smart enough to know how to fix this.
• 8:33
  I just don't know whether they're smart enough to actually do it.
• 8:37
  And so to me, it's a really simple situation.
• 8:39
  The relationship is broken down.
• 8:41
  Let each party go on their own separate ways.
• 8:45
  And if it's all about the team and how great the team is and how great they built the car, then...
• 8:51
  You know, the other two drivers in the car should make it a championship winning car.
• 8:55
  If it's not about Brody and Brody's skill set, then Brody can go to another team and quickly prove Barry and Betty right that it's all about them.
• 9:03
  So I think that it could be fixed very, very quickly.
• 9:07
  But no one seems to want to do that, you know, from the team side.
• 9:12
  Can I flip this for one second here?
• 9:14
  I mean, if you were team boss and hypothetically Murph said, I'm going to walk away, you would fight, right?
• 9:19
  I also think that if Jamie Wincup had perhaps done this again, hypothetically, at the height of his reign, Rowland would understandably fight tooth and nail to keep him.
• 9:30
  To your point...
• 9:32
  Could it really be workable though?
• 9:33
  I mean, won't there always be this bitter taste on both sides?
• 9:37
  It's hard to see any other way other than to agree to part ways here.
• 9:43
  Rusty, I would never let it get to this point.
• 9:45
  And I don't think neither would Roland.
• 9:47
  I would never get to the point where all the sponsors were leaving.
• 9:52
  You know, I say this, the job of a race team owner and CEO, right, their business model
• 9:59
  is to win races, to get sponsors, and to get fans that follow them, right, and sell merchandise.
• 10:04
  That's the business model of a team.
• 10:07
  They have lost sponsors and they are losing fans.
• 10:09
  So as a business, as a CEO, it's considered a failure.
• 10:14
  And to sit there and smile and say, everything's okay, we're going to power on when the very core business model of a team is to get commercial sponsors to support you and to get fans to support you.
• 10:24
  When you lose those, it doesn't matter whether you win or lose on the racetrack.
• 10:28
  Your business model of why you set that up has failed, yet no one seems to get fired.
• 10:33
  Everyone just seems to go on and say, don't worry, it's all good.
• 10:36
  It's not all good.
• 10:38
  And that's where I think that we've got to start focusing in on the core issue.
• 10:42
  But I don't think Roland, I don't think any team manager up and down pit lane or owner would ever let the relationship get this bad.
• 10:50
  Simon, to you now, the high profile support that we've seen for Brodie from Shane Van Gisbergen, from Scott McLaughlin, I mean, to quote Scotty here, the sport should be ashamed.
• 11:00
  They know the full story.
• 11:01
  And as per usual, step around everything and don't say anything, hoping that the storm will settle like they always have.
• 11:09
  No protection for drivers ever.
• 11:11
  And he's been very supportive.
• 11:12
  Yeah.
• 11:12
  of Brodie.
• 11:13
  We know that Shane's been unhappy for some time with the sport, but for Scotty to join in like that, right?
• 11:20
  I've not seen that from him before.
• 11:22
  Both are former champions, Bathurst winners.
• 11:24
  This is powerful stuff.
• 11:26
  Were you surprised that Scotty did that?
• 11:28
  And should current drivers on the grid be allowed, be encouraged to speak up on this matter and other issues?
• 11:35
  Oh, absolutely.
• 11:36
  I'm not surprised that Shane and Scott have come out.
• 11:39
  And it's only because they've left that they feel like they can speak out.
• 11:44
  They don't have to worry about anyone coming down hard on them within supercars anymore because they're no longer tied.
• 11:51
  But have we seen anyone within supercars, as far as drivers, really say anything remotely controversial around this?
• 11:58
  Not really.
• 11:59
  We've seen James Courtney and Will Brown say, we hope that Brody's okay, which is great.
• 12:05
  But they're not necessarily taking a side.
• 12:07
  And I think it was...
• 12:10
  pretty damning what supercars came out with.
• 12:14
  If you know what's going on behind the scenes, you know, Brody's gone to supercars and said, Hey, I need your help.
• 12:21
  He's feeling like he's under attack.
• 12:23
  And then supercars have said, we hope Brody's okay.
• 12:27
  But we also hope that Erebus are doing okay as well.
• 12:30
  And that didn't really sound like they were really supporting Brody and what he was trying to get out of.
• 12:37
  You know, he's in a really tough spot at the moment in terms of trying to get out of that contract.
• 12:42
  And I don't think he feels like he's being supported by supercars.
• 12:44
  And I don't think a lot of the drivers, the established drivers, feel that they're supported by supercars either.
• 12:50
  And it's probably why we've heard over the past six months, funnily enough, about, you know,
• 12:56
  the drivers banding together and creating some sort of commission amongst themselves.
• 13:00
  You know, we see it in Formula One.
• 13:03
  The drivers do have a bit of a voice.
• 13:05
  So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see what comes of this, whether the drivers feel like they can talk.
• 13:11
  But, you know, it's been like this for a long time.
• 13:13
  I don't think the drivers are going to come out and say anything remotely controversial in the next way.
• 13:18
  Well, the problem, Rusty, is it goes back to the fundamental principle of how supercars are set up, right?
• 13:24
  The charter.
• 13:26
  which controls a lot of what goes on is still controlled by the teams.
• 13:30
  And so the teams still have a very, very big say on what happens.
• 13:33
  The teams really do have a concept that the drivers are disposable and that they have used by dates on them and just get in the car and drive.
• 13:41
  Really has been a mentality they've had for a while.
• 13:43
  But if you're supercars, it's very hard because you do need the teams on side in order to get things approved.
• 13:48
  And so, you know,
• 13:50
  I'm sure Shane Howard's trying to sit on the fence, and we all know that that never works for anybody, and it's been a complete and utter failure by supercars.
• 13:57
  You know, I've always said to them, take a stand.
• 13:59
  Like, make a stand.
• 14:01
  And then, you know what, if the teams come after you, then you're going to have the public opinion on your side.
• 14:05
  But right now, they're trying to serve two masters, right?
• 14:08
  They're trying to serve the masters, which are basically race,
• 14:11
  And then supercars have the commission, they have the charter.
• 14:15
  And so the teams still control a lot of what goes on and what's said and what's done.
• 14:20
  Because at the end of the day, without the teams, all races is a guy that owns a bunch of gates and fences that go around a government-funded track.
• 14:31
  Is the sport in a bind here, trying to mediate something that seems unfixable?
• 14:36
  Should they have intervened?
• 14:38
  I mean, some are saying that codes like the NRL and AFL, if confronted with a similar situation, probably would have not become involved.
• 14:45
  Well, are they mediating?
• 14:46
  That's probably the other question.
• 14:47
  Yeah, they should.
• 14:49
  They should go to Betty and Barry and say, you know what?
• 14:52
  He's not coming back.
• 14:54
  It's dragging the sport into the ground.
• 14:57
  Let us buy his contract out.
• 14:58
  Like if I ran supercars right now, I'd be straight down to Betty and Barry going, I'll buy out his contract.
• 15:03
  Whatever you want, just tell me and I'll buy it out because this is no good for anybody.
• 15:07
  It's not good for you as a team and it's not good for us as a sport and it's certainly not good for the fans.
• 15:12
  And they've got TV negotiation rides coming up to negotiate, right?
• 15:15
  So I would be sitting there right now, and this is being dragged through the mainstream media now, not just the motorsport media, but the mainstream media.
• 15:22
  They need to shut this down, and they need to shut it down quickly.
• 15:25
  And you're right, Rusty, their whole strategy has been for the last 20 years –
• 15:29
  Don't worry, just sweep it under the rug.
• 15:30
  It'll go away.
• 15:31
  Don't worry.
• 15:32
  We start the racing and everybody will be like, oh, we're all excited.
• 15:35
  It's not going to do that.
• 15:36
  It's not going to go away and they need to fix it.
• 15:39
  And they all can fix it.
• 15:40
  It's just no one's taking the leadership.
• 15:42
  They're all basically sitting there.
• 15:44
  You know, supercars is basically a backbone looking for a spine, right?
• 15:48
  They don't have one and they need to get one and they need to get it soon.
• 15:50
  And by the way, this is a bunch of issues that related not just to what Brody's going through, but you can go back to, you know, looking at the parity of Gen 3.
• 15:59
  You can go all the way back and having a look at, you know, some of the issues that supercars have had without making strong decisions.
• 16:06
  And we are where we are now because of it.
• 16:07
  Yeah, well, I guess if you were to compare it to the AFL or the NRL, and if some of these allegations were floating around, maybe a bit more publicly than what they are at the moment, there'd probably be...
• 16:20
  you know, like an integrity unit, looking at it, you know, that'd be the way that the sport should be responding probably is that there needs to be some mediation that's going on.
• 16:30
  You know, the statements that supercars have put out have been a little bit wishy-washy, to be honest.
• 16:36
  It kind of feels like they're taking a bit of a hands-off approach to this all, but like the reality is, is that their number one driver is not going to be on the grid this year.
• 16:47
  And that should be
• 16:48
  One of their main goals is to try and have him there.
• 16:51
  They should obviously make sure that Brodie is okay and that this is all resolved, but they need to make sure that he's on the grid in some way, shape or form.
• 16:59
  How they do that, who knows?
• 17:00
  Because it doesn't look like that's going to happen at all.
• 17:03
  Erebus, that relationship, it seems, is too far gone now.
• 17:06
  There's no way that that can be repaired as far as I'm concerned.
• 17:10
  You know, there's some chatter about, you know, maybe Premier stepping in and trying to facilitate Brodie Racing, but it kind of sounds like that might be for next year more than anything.
• 17:21
  Just on that point, Simon.
• 17:23
  Yeah.
• 17:23
  Yeah.
• 17:24
  there is no, and obviously I'm close to Brody, this concept that Brody has offers and he's entertaining offers from other teams is simply not true, right?
• 17:35
  He doesn't, in my opinion, I hear these things and it's kind of like it's people out there making that up.
• 17:41
  I mean, that's why I came out and said the NASCAR deal.
• 17:44
  Brody has not asked me to put him in a NASCAR.
• 17:47
  right?
• 17:48
  Brody just needs a break, right?
• 17:50
  From all that's going on.
• 17:51
  So this concept of, oh, he's trying to get into another supercar team.
• 17:54
  He's trying to get out of his contract.
• 17:56
  He wants more money.
• 17:57
  It's all false.
• 17:59
  It's not true.
• 18:00
  And it's not real.
• 18:01
  That I will say.
• 18:03
  And so, you know, Brody's not interested in entertaining anything right now,
• 18:09
  He just needs a break.
• 18:10
  So this concept that he's out there looking for other things to me or he's being offered other things, you know, is just simply not true.
• 18:18
  And that's why, again, I think it's a motive that's coming out from the other side to say, oh, he just wants to get out and go race for somebody else.
• 18:25
  I think what he wants to do is just be released from where he is and then be able to decide once he's released what he can do.
• 18:31
  But right now, he's not making any decisions on what he wants to do other than I don't want to race in that team.
• 18:36
  Does the press have any responsibility for inflaming this or are they just doing their job?
• 18:41
  Well, they're just doing their job, right?
• 18:43
  At the end of the day, if you're a journalist and you've got the story, you've got to run it.
• 18:48
  There's been some insinuations from some corners that they're putting the mental health ahead of the story.
• 18:58
  But any journalist in their right mind with that story is going to run it.
• 19:03
  Yeah, there are...
• 19:05
  For certain organizations, some conflicts, unfortunately, that seem to have precluded them from running the story.
• 19:10
  But for others, it seems to be something about a moral high ground for not running the story.
• 19:15
  But if you're a journalist and you've got that, you've got to run it.
• 19:18
  You know, this is the biggest story.
• 19:21
  like at the moment in supercars.
• 19:23
  You know, like why wouldn't you?
• 19:25
  If you could, you should.
• 19:27
  Peter, that leads me to you.
• 19:28
  You've called for an end to the so-called boys club in our industry media.
• 19:31
  Just expand on that if you can.
• 19:33
  And don't you kind of feel that in some ways as events and sporting codes work with the press, there'll always be a little bit of give and take, right?
• 19:42
  Both kind of need each other at various points along the journey.
• 19:45
  Yeah, look, to say that I'm taking the moral high ground and I'm not going to print the story, to me it's just I was late on the story, someone else gazumped me and I'm now going to take some approach to it, which is wrong.
• 19:57
  I agree.
• 19:58
  Their job is to absolutely be completely transparent
• 20:01
  The problem you've got is that everyone's writing books.
• 20:05
  You know, everyone needs each other and it's so incestuous.
• 20:09
  And you know this, Russ, you've been around long enough.
• 20:11
  Most of those reporters that are out there right now have been around in this sport for 25 to 30 years.
• 20:16
  They understand that upsetting supercars could have ramifications on them.
• 20:20
  They also understand upsetting the teams.
• 20:23
  could I have issues for them?
• 20:24
  So by the time they get to the actual truth of what the story is, they've already weighed up all these options of like, is it really something I want to do?
• 20:31
  And I think that had auto action, well, let's face it, that's who we're talking about.
• 20:35
  Had they had their time again, I reckon they would have ran that story long before Speed Cafe.
• 20:40
  I think if you went back in early January and they knew what was going on, they would have ran that.
• 20:45
  So to me, it's time we cleaned up the motorsport media.
• 20:49
  And again, I talk about the specialized
• 20:53
  You know, Simon, who's out there, you know, obviously on more of the mainstream, doesn't have such a close relationship.
• 20:59
  So he doesn't really care that much.
• 21:01
  But all the other guys have got so many other things going on internally.
• 21:05
  You just don't know who's doing what and who's saying what.
• 21:08
  And again, at the end of the day, you know, they want to be able to go in to talk to Barry and they want to be able to talk to Betty and they want to be able to talk to Shane Howard.
• 21:15
  And they know that if they...
• 21:18
  kind of piss them off, they're not going to have anyone.
• 21:21
  And then also all the other teams are like, well, you broke code on one of our teams.
• 21:24
  So that's why I think supercars should basically come out to the media and say, you guys can do it and say whatever you want.
• 21:30
  Drivers, you can say and do whatever you want.
• 21:32
  There will be no ramifications at all.
• 21:34
  In fact, we want complete transparency.
• 21:36
  Go do it.
• 21:37
  But they won't.
• 21:37
  And so until that is said and publicly said,
• 21:41
  will still be in the same boat.
• 21:43
  Some have suggested that perhaps the difficult work environment is contributing to this.
• 21:49
  Barry pointed out this week to colleagues at V8 Sleuth that the staff retention at Erebus, despite this, has actually been quite good.
• 21:56
  You've worked closely with them, as you detailed before, as a sponsor around the wildcard program and so on.
• 22:03
  How have you found them to deal with?
• 22:06
  Is this just a high stakes game sport that, you know, by nature is stressful sometimes?
• 22:11
  You know, I actually came out on a post and, you know, got some people coming back at me where I basically, you know, were critical of the drivers posting that smiling photo, right?
• 22:22
  And it's the most, and then the team's coming out and laughing and it's almost the most bizarre thing I've ever seen, right?
• 22:28
  Because even when you go back and look at the testing they did last year, there wasn't this happy-go-lucky, you know, bizarre, everyone laughing, putting the thumbs up.
• 22:37
  It's put on, right?
• 22:39
  And I actually feel sorry for the team.
• 22:40
  To sit back and say everything's normal and everything's going gangbusters when the driver who delivered you the Supercars Championship is not there and is suffering at home is a little disingenuous in my opinion.
• 22:52
  And again, I don't fault the team members for that, the actual team.
• 22:55
  I'm sure that they've been told, go out there and smile in a North Korean way.
• 23:00
  But for me, I sit back and go...
• 23:03
  Why would you be smiling?
• 23:05
  Why would you be putting this out?
• 23:06
  You know, get on and do your job fine.
• 23:07
  But to go over the top and let everybody know that there's a party atmosphere at Erebus right now, when the guy who delivered you the championship, who in my opinion probably reshaped the Gen 3 car because Brody's very, very good at driving, but also very, very good at the engineering side.
• 23:22
  So I think a lot of the fact that they were the fastest, I mean, you only have to look at the two drivers in that team, right?
• 23:28
  Brody was obviously light years ahead.
• 23:30
  And so I sit back and go,
• 23:32
  Why?
• 23:32
  Why would you just get on and do your job rather than pretending that it's a party atmosphere and everything's fantastic when really I think it's an insult to your driver that delivered you a championship?
• 23:43
  I can see your point in relation to reading the room given the gravity of things right around those pictures, that post and so on.
• 23:51
  We probably need fans to...
• 23:53
  roll off a bit of the angst on some of that on Facebook and what have you.
• 23:56
  Is there a counter argument here that Erebus does need to start moving on and that those two drivers, Jack LeBrock and Todd Hazelwood, should they not be overshadowed by this?
• 24:07
  They're actually trying to do their job.
• 24:08
  It's a timing issue for me, Rusty.
• 24:11
  Get to Bathurst.
• 24:14
  When everything's so emotional and raw right now,
• 24:17
  That's the worst thing you can possibly do, right?
• 24:19
  When somebody's going through a lot who's obviously had a really bad experience internally inside the team and then the very team comes out and they're laughing and carrying on like everything is okay.
• 24:31
  I just think it's a matter of timing.
• 24:33
  What I would have done and what I would have counseled if they were my drivers in my team is I said, look, guys, let's be humble.
• 24:40
  Let's stay focused.
• 24:42
  Let's get ready for Bathurst and then let the driving at Bathurst do the talking.
• 24:47
  But to go out of the way and say everything's fantastic, it was bizarre.
• 24:50
  I think, I'm not sure who actually put that quote out.
• 24:53
  And then to put number one on the car,
• 24:55
  right?
• 24:56
  I mean, if I was Todd Hazelwood, I would have said, get the number off.
• 24:59
  I'm not driving a car with number one on it because I didn't win the championship.
• 25:02
  So if you want to play that game, fine, but get the number one off the car and put something else on there.
• 25:07
  They're just a bunch of things, Rusty, that to me in the timing of the emotion that's going on right now was just the most arrogant thing that I've ever seen anybody ever do ever.
• 25:17
  I just thought it was disgraceful.
• 25:19
  So how do we move forward from here?
• 25:21
  Is there a way realistically that both sides can put the swords down?
• 25:25
  My opinion is just let each other go separate ways.
• 25:29
  Just let Brody go do what he wants to do.
• 25:32
  Let Erebus go show everybody that it's their team and it wasn't Brody.
• 25:36
  Brody wasn't the magic.
• 25:37
  They're the magic.
• 25:39
  And let Todd Hazelwood and Jack LeBrock prove Barry right and let Brody go do whatever Brody wants to do.
• 25:45
  To me, that's the only way this ends nicely.
• 25:48
  Yeah, I agree.
• 25:50
  I think Erebus have to let Brody go.
• 25:54
  I think you risk, for starters, you risk this dragging on longer than it needs to.
• 25:59
  I think you risk the rumors festering.
• 26:03
  I think you risk a lot of the background stuff coming out.
• 26:09
  There's a reason why the sponsors have pulled the plug.
• 26:12
  There's a reason why Brody doesn't want to race for this team.
• 26:15
  The
• 26:17
  It's just better for everyone if we just move on and Brodie is allowed to walk and can sit on the sidelines in 2024 and then come back next year and say, I'm going to go win the championship again.
• 26:34
  I think that's the only way this can work.
• 26:36
  Just on that, Simon, why shouldn't he be allowed to, they filled his seat up.
• 26:41
  Why shouldn't he be allowed to go do some things, right?
• 26:44
  To me, he's a racer, right?
• 26:46
  And so when you let somebody go and you buy them out of their contract, you let them go.
• 26:50
  If for whatever reason they turn up,
• 26:53
  racing a GT car or racing a NASCAR or doing something else, do you really care?
• 26:58
  I mean, at the end of the day, he's not coming back to you.
• 27:01
  So you focus on your program and let him go and focus on his.
• 27:06
  I just sit back and think that just everyone goes their own separate ways and go do whatever you want.
• 27:11
  Put everyone in the car, Erebus, and Brody, go drive whatever you want.
• 27:14
  Yeah, I think they should just split and let Brody do what he wants to do, but that's not to say that, you know, there's contracts, right?
• 27:21
  You know, that's not to say that Erebus will say, okay, we'll let you go, but you can't race.
• 27:26
  You know, that's just what happens in motorsport.
• 27:28
  We know there are instances where drivers have to take essentially gardening leave, right, where they sit on the sidelines.
• 27:34
  And because...
• 27:36
  because of the messy nature of it, that may be just how it plays out.
• 27:41
  They might just say, okay, yeah, we're happy to go, but you can't race anything.
• 27:44
  That's just what might happen.
• 27:45
  It'll be interesting to see whether he's allowed to do NASCAR, but, you know, we'll see.
• 27:49
  I agree with you, Simon, but you can't have a motto of,
• 27:53
  You know, if you're not happy, Betty and Barry say it all the time, if you're not happy, we'll let you go.
• 27:57
  And they've proven with Davey Reynolds' 10-year contract and they've proven with Will Brown that they will let those drivers go if they're not happy.
• 28:04
  For some unknown reason, they've suddenly zipped that up and that whole approach that they had in life, which is what I, by the way, thought was actually quite admirable of them up until this point where, and I'd be the same, if you don't like
• 28:17
  and there's a breakdown in the relationship, off you go.
• 28:21
  Off you go and do whatever you like.
• 28:22
  It just shows to me that Brodie probably was more involved in that car winning than maybe we even know.
• 28:29
  Well, this is the first time they've had a champion, right?
• 28:32
  this is the first time they've had a driver who's winning, right?
• 28:35
  You know, in the past, I've had Davey Reynolds who won the Bathurst 1000.
• 28:39
  You know, they've got Brown who's obviously doing great things.
• 28:42
  Anton was doing great things, but none of those drivers were winning them a championship, right?
• 28:46
  So this is the first time where they've gone, oh, heck, like we've actually got something to lose here.
• 28:51
  You know, Davey was unhappy.
• 28:52
  Davey was unhappy.
• 28:53
  He left.
• 28:53
  Their engineers were unhappy.
• 28:55
  They left.
• 28:55
  Anton got another opportunity.
• 28:57
  He left.
• 28:57
  Will Brown gets another opportunity.
• 28:59
  He leaves.
• 28:59
  But now they've got someone who's actually bringing them the success that they've waited 10 years for.
• 29:05
  10 years they've waited to get to this point.
• 29:07
  They finally get there and it all breaks down.
• 29:10
  And so now they've gone, oh, heck, like we actually need to hold on to this guy if we want to keep winning.
• 29:15
  So to me, wouldn't you go out of your way to keep that guy happy?
• 29:18
  I would.
• 29:19
  If the guy won me a championship, I'd be like... That's a very good question.
• 29:23
  I'll give him whatever he wants to stay, right?
• 29:25
  If he basically wants a whole new pit crew and team and a new car, I'll give it to him.
• 29:30
  I don't want him to leave.
• 29:32
  But they let the thing deteriorate down to the point where...
• 29:35
  He just can't stay there.
• 29:36
  That's the mind-boggling thing to me.
• 29:38
  I don't think anyone would let a championship-winning driver go or allow him to get to that position where he wants to leave.
• 29:44
  Can I pick up on something that was said a moment ago there?
• 29:46
  Can Brodie do some NASCAR, Peter?
• 29:49
  God, I hope so.
• 29:50
  I would put him in a NASCAR tomorrow.
• 29:52
  You know, I've got, you know, obviously the Mobile X brand's, you know, cranking now.
• 29:55
  We just launched in Walmart.
• 29:57
  We showed the Walmart Mobile X car.
• 30:01
  To me, if I was the guys that, you know, I was going to say, fine, okay, if I've got a problem with you driving supercars because that's in my backyard but you can go do whatever you want in America, I would do that just to keep the peace.
• 30:13
  I think it would also take the pressure valve off.
• 30:16
  this whole situation.
• 30:18
  But putting Brody on the sidelines for a whole year, and if I'm supercars and I'm Erebus, is going to create this thing going on for a whole year.
• 30:28
  Letting him go and do his own thing, the pressure valve's off, right?
• 30:32
  So to me, I think that emotions will wane.
• 30:36
  You know what it's like when people are at their peak.
• 30:38
  I think
• 30:41
  sanity will prevail, common sense will prevail.
• 30:45
  And after the first race at Bathurst, when they just move on, I think that we'll see a settling down of this.
• 30:51
  And I think you'll see Brody be able to go do some things.
• 30:54
  And I think that that would be the smart thing of Erebus to do.
• 30:56
  And the more smart thing for supercars to force Erebus to do.
• 30:59
  Okay, to finish here, as awful as this difficult or messy situation appears, hopefully they can replace those sponsors soon.
• 31:08
  Are there lessons here, perhaps for everybody involved?
• 31:13
  What are those lessons?
• 31:14
  And can we just say, you know, Erebus have gone about things differently over time.
• 31:20
  That's okay.
• 31:22
  Our sport...
• 31:23
  really does need them.
• 31:24
  They've won a championship.
• 31:25
  They've done some great things.
• 31:27
  They've got some good ingredients there.
• 31:29
  We need them in our game.
• 31:31
  But what are the kind of lessons for all and sundry?
• 31:36
  Well, the business lesson for me here is don't kill the golden goose.
• 31:39
  Erebus killed the golden goose.
• 31:41
  And for me, that is a real mismanagement at the highest level.
• 31:47
  When you've got a guy who can take your car and make it a winning championship car and you basically piss him off to the point where he's mentally struggling to stay at the team.
• 31:57
  You know, if I was Barry and Betty, I'd go by a massive big mirror and stare in it for a long, long time.
• 32:02
  I think the sport maybe just needs to take care of its drivers a little bit better.
• 32:08
  I do think the drivers for a long time have felt like they can't say anything remotely controversial without fear of some sort of retribution.
• 32:20
  And that kind of goes back to the McLaughlin and Van Gisbergen stuff that we alluded to earlier.
• 32:24
  Van Gisbergen was...
• 32:27
  hung out to dry at the season opener last year when he made those comments about Gen 3.
• 32:31
  You know, that stuff had been festering for a long time.
• 32:34
  And he felt so put out about that, that, you know, one of his idols, Mark Scaife, was just tearing him up on television without the full story being told.
• 32:43
  And I think that kind of summed up the situation.
• 32:48
  And that's why we're here as well.
• 32:50
  Hey, Simon, one question for you.
• 32:52
  If you're a driver on the grid,
• 32:54
  And you know that Brody Kostecki and Shane Van Gisburg are coming back.
• 32:59
  Are you really that upset?
• 33:01
  Wow.
• 33:02
  I mean, you're a racer first, right?
• 33:05
  So your two biggest competitors, one and two in the championship, aren't coming back.
• 33:10
  I'm not sure how many drivers are sitting back there going, yeah, we'd like to see Brody back.
• 33:14
  I don't think it's a real championship this year because the champion's not going to be there.
• 33:17
  And I think because Van Gisburg's not going to be there, I think everyone's racing for third.
• 33:23
  We have some big statements to finish up there.
• 33:25
  There's some good people on the grid there who will be eyeing up that championship this year.
• 33:29
  We wish them well.
• 33:30
  We've covered a lot of ground here with both of you over more than half an hour.
• 33:33
  It's a bit longer than we normally do for a short cast for a motorsport brief.
• 33:38
  Thank you both very much for your time today.
• 33:40
  Thanks, mate.
• 33:41
  Thanks, Rustic.
• 33:43
  Remember, that is Peter's view and Simon's thoughts or observations too.
• 33:48
  I always endeavour to moderate this stuff, so I want to finish by offering a little bit of counterbalance here.
• 33:55
  Firstly, there'll be some high-profile drivers who will not like that suggestion that they are fighting for third this year.
• 34:02
  Brock Feeney, for example, in my opinion, is really coming on as a driver and we would love nothing more than to see him and others going wheel-to-wheel with Brodie.
• 34:12
  Secondly, I've always had a good relationship with Barry Ryan.
• 34:16
  He has a no-nonsense approach.
• 34:18
  Plenty of people in the pit lane before him have operated that way.
• 34:23
  What you might know is that he and his family have quietly helped
• 34:27
  another team member in the second or third tier of the sport.
• 34:30
  I won't mention them because I'm not sure if that was a private Facebook post I saw or not.
• 34:35
  But that team owner has had a family member in hospital for many weeks now.
• 34:39
  Barry's been incredibly supportive.
• 34:42
  Betty too, I believe.
• 34:43
  So just keep that in mind before you cast judgment.
• 34:48
  Barry, there is more to their side of the story.
• 34:51
  He keeps telling us and we need to know what that is first before you perhaps pass judgment.
• 34:56
  Finally, I really hope that Brodie can be back behind the wheel of a race car very soon.
• 35:02
  We just cannot have someone of that talent on the sidelines.
• 35:07
  That is it for today.
• 35:08
  We'll catch you next week, everybody.
• 35:09
  Bye for now.