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Transcript

The Rescue Dilemma · B Shifter

• 0:47
  Speaker 1: all right, this is the b shifter podcast.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: You've got john vance, along with eric phillips and grant light.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: We are on our final day of fdic, so we are coming at you from the b shifter house, which has been a really nice experience staying over here, so we had a nice time last night, another good dinner in the neighborhood and early to bed so we can be fresh to be at the B Shifter booth and see everybody, all the blue card users and hang out at FDIC today.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So how are you guys doing?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: How are you enjoying your time?
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I'm loving it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: The convention's been awesome.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: It seems like there's a lot of people there this year.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: There's really jumping and the traffic at the booth has been great.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've met a lot of new people.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: How about you, eric?
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: It's been real good, real good FDIC 24, a lot of new customers coming by talking about the system and talking to existing users and seeing the success they've had.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: It's been, uh, it's been great.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: One of the things that has been kind of a reoccurring theme here, it seems like.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: And uh, we've we've just seen clips, because I wasn't in any of these classes in particular, cause we've been hanging out at the booth, but you know, there's a quote, unquote culture, war, talking about rescue, and there's this perceived wave of things going on by some in our, in our service, that there is anti search culture, anti rescue culture.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I don't see it, I mean, at least in the departments that I'm involved with, and certainly not with the blue card departments.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: But but it got us talking about some things that have to do with rescue and how we would go about certain rescues, and you know exactly the way we would carry that out.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: To that end, grant had some questions and I think it was just some great discussion that we had the other day on all of that.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So, grant, your question and dilemma, I think, is an interesting one, because it's one that hasn't come up before and it specifically has to do with decision-making during a rescue.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we did a decision-making class, like a hands-on decision-making class, where we put firemen, you know, fire officers, uh, into different predicaments and then you know they had to make quick decisions.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: That, um, you know on what they were going to do.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: So it was, it was to help them, you know, help build their ability to make decisions, you know, on the fire ground.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: So it's just like anything else you practice it and then you get better at it.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: So one of the things we did was we had the firefighter, the team, go search a space.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: So there was a big buildup, there's a, you know, a big front end piece, you know, to set that up.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: But in the end they were supposed to go search a space and when they and it was pretty far away from where they entered the building.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So when they got there they searched the space and they found a civilian, you know, a dummy, but a civilian on the on the floor in the, in the room we S we set it up so they would find that civilian and then they would start dragging that civilian out as, as we all would.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: They called their priority traffic, they did the things they were supposed to do on the radio and all that.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And then they worked together to start removing that victim from the space.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: And what we complicated it by?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: We had a real human firefighter for turnout gear, but who was with us, would lay down on the floor in the path that they would have to go through to get out of the building.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: So then they came upon, they had a victim, they were pulling out and they came across a fireman who was down, and so that was really the whole setup.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: So what would they do?
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Which was our big question what would they do?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And what's the right thing to do, I guess, is the two things out of that.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: The two things out of that, over 50 percent left the fireman there and drug the victim out.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So the fireman was unconscious, was, you know, was in a full firefighting gear, had an SCBA on but was unconscious.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And and they the what?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: The whole, the whole pursuit of this was to see what they would do, what decision they would make.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Some had a huge conversation in the space between the officer and his firefighter.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Some people tried to drag both people out, but that was not going to work.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: From all the studies, one guy's not going to get one guy out, and it was a long way to the exit.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like they were five feet from the front door.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: They tried to move both victims.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: That didn't work.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: They would run out of air long before they could make that work.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Some people just pushed the fireman off to the side and drugged right on past him with the victim.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: They didn't really do much of anything.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Others, like I said, had a big discussion between the two of them.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: It was obvious that it was a huge moral decision they were trying to make and it was just interesting to see what the results were.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: They did call out and say that they found a fireman.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Some asked for a rapid intervention team to come in to try to help with the fireman.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Some chose the fireman over the victim and they radioed out and said we're bringing the fireman out them.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: And they radioed out and said we're bringing the firemen out, Um, but it just, it was um, it was a really good.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a really good uh setup a drill to see what people would do and we had a huge conversation with them.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Afterwards, when they would come out, we would talk to them about, um, how they made their decision, what they chose, that kind of stuff.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And for the purposes of this conversation, we're not going to give you an answer today, because we want you to think about it as an IC, as an officer, as a firefighter, somebody who could be in that position at any time.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So let's kind of step through though some of the options, because there are options, right?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So we're again, we're not going to give answers, but we want you to think about some of the options that you have and then we'll delve into it a little closer.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: So what are the options?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean the options are take one, take the other, take both, but none of those really work for you.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: It really came down to one or the other.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: The people that tried to take both.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: It never was going to work.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: But then it became down to the choice and that some of the discussions were um afterwards, where the their um, the officer's perception of like survivability.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: You know what's the survivability profile of the victim, and you know they were having these things going through their head.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: That's when they came out, when we asked them like why'd you make decision?
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: You made right.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You know what was what was going through your head, what was the thought process.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: And they get, they got into a big survivability thing and you know we were kind of like you know you have no idea what, what either of those answers are for the victim or for the firefighter.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Cause you know one side says the firefighter was a fully functional human being.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: When he got there he got up.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: If it was nighttime, he got up out of bed, he got in the fire truck, he put his fire gear on, he got to the scene, got in the building and something happened that made him fully unconscious in the building.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: So five minutes ago.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: He was a fully functional human being and so what could make that happen?
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: That all of a sudden he's just unconscious?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: He wasn't out of air, he had air, he was.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: You couldn't tell if he was breathing or not breathing.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: He was, because he was a real person.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: But you know, you couldn't really figure that out in that space.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So you know his survivability profile would be probably some medical emergency happened, right, and it's very low.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: And then there was the discussion about the survivability profile of the victim and you don't know how long they've been there.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: You know some people are like, well, you know, you know our response time and all that.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: You know we we might have gotten there within five minutes and it's like, ok, all that's true, but you don't know when the fire started.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: You know this fire could have started three hours ago and it went ventilation limited.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Nobody saw any smoke because it was middle of the night and the neighbor woke up and was brushing his teeth, looked out his window and saw smoke coming out of the house, right.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: You don't know if they've been down for three hours.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: There's no way to know.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: You know what, how long that happened, or the fire just started and they were really you know they.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: They went down from that.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: It's just trying to do the survivability profile.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Was you know, was a really was was interesting, but there's just really no way to know, it's impossible.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: So it really comes down to a different decision than just who would who could survive.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Did any of them talk about their policy on a firefighter with a mayday?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Because this is this is a firefighter with a mayday and it seems that fire departments typically have a pretty detailed policy on on how we're going to deal with a firefighter with a mayday, and it seems that fire departments typically have a pretty detailed policy on how we're going to deal with a firefighter with a mayday.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Was any of that discussed by the participants?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So afterwards we asked them, we said, you know what's your department's policy for civilian rescue?
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And they went well, I would state it, what's the how many pages is your department's policy for civilian rescue?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: And they would think for a while and think for a while and a lot of them said, like, I don't even know if we really have one.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: You know, call a priority traffic that we found a victim and then get them out of the building.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: And I said, yeah, so it's pretty short.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Then that's probably less than a page.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's about right.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: But all they thought about and they didn't really have one, there was no that they could remember a written policy.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Finding a firefighter down, oh well, yeah, that's like five pages.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: It's a mayday and all these things happen and rapid intervention teams and and air, you know air getting air into them and doing all these things.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, ok.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: So, however you look at it, and this was, you know, a county wide, people from a county all over a county.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't just one department, it was a lot of departments involved in this.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And so we started having the discussions and we said, you know, that seems to be what most people we've talked to when we've kind of had this conversation before we actually put it into play.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So before we made this scenario and put it in, you know, put people through, this was.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: You know, it seems like the I mean I'm talking pretty big here but like the National Fire Service has made a decision on that.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: You know, nobody really had a policy for what they do when they find a civilian, but everybody had a huge policy I mean pages on what they do if they find a fireman and all that involved.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: You know, getting extra people in to help all the people around them, helping get an air in, all these things to make it seem like, you know, obviously the firefighter was really important.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Not seeing the civilians is not important.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I've searched for civilians, I've pulled people out, I've done all that.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: But when you call out and say I found a victim, we don't send somebody in with an airbag, we don't send the rapid intervention team in.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: They stand there, you know, they stand in the front yard and they wait till the word firefighters involved and then they go into into play.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: So it would start to become a bigger conversation about, you know, maybe somehow that would be smart to have somebody with an air bag try to go in as fast as they can and meet that, that crew bringing the victim out, because most, most of the airbags out there the writ bags, however you want to call them have a face piece in there.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: In case the fireman's face piece is jacked up, you can throw that on the fireman.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe it would be smart to start doing that for a victim like that much sooner.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: We're getting them on good air, so it just.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: It just brought on a lot of more conversation on how we do things.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: I think you got to look at the system as well.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: There, grant, it's all about decision making.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: So you know, I think somebody said one time it's all about decision-making.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: So you know, I think somebody said one time it's all about them until it's about us.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: And when you start thinking of that quote, in the scenario that you're just talking about, there's a lot of decisions that got to be made and I think it's awesome that you guys are running that drill getting the officers to think about that before it happens.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: But when you think about that, you got to have a whole system in place to support the operation that's happening inside of the, the ideal age, and when I, when I think of the system that we use, you got to be doing everything right.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: When something goes wrong as another quote that that comes to my you know that I'm thinking of right now is what does that really mean?
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: You've got to have the whole system in place and you got to be using it on every fire.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: If you just think that one of these, one day, it's just going to all work out, it's not going to.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: So it's awesome that you guys are doing that with your officers, that you have a system that you can exercise that with, and uh, I think that's great.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: You guys are doing that.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: It was really interesting.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I mean it got everybody thinking, you know and and you know bigger than just what happened that moment, when you know Officer X came upon this, you know the setup that we had laid out for them and what they thought about, it started everybody thinking about.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: You know, well, maybe we could do things different in a bigger picture, you know, because we have a whole thing.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: You know pages of stuff that we feel is important to make happen when we have a fireman down, but we don't have all that.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: When we find a civilian down and some of those, some of those things that are there, that that rapid intervention team or the on deck that's ready to go in, you know that was always.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: You know, for the first and foremost is always a rapid intervention team.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: You know, the on deck, the on deck crew, maybe that would be if we find a victim, we get that in operation with that.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: You know the on deck, the on deck crew, maybe that would be.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: If we find a victim, we get that in operation with that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: You know, bringing that air in and meeting them halfway or something.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: It just we do it for us.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe the thought is we should look more into doing it for them too, you know.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's another discussion to have, because and we certainly have in my organizations before is if you find a victim, it's going to take a lot of resources to get the victim out.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I think oftentimes in our service we BS ourselves in.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Just a couple of people are going to grab this.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: You know a hundred and well, it's usually somebody who's over 200 pounds and and, and a lot of times they're naked, it seems like, at least in my experience.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: So how are you going to move that person out and what's going to happen to those crews once they're done doing it?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of a job of a lifetime type thing.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: You know a task of a lifetime.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And when you actually do that physical rescue and pull somebody out, you're not ready to go back in and fight fire or even maybe get the rest of the all clear, plus that patient's going to need attended to.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: So you know what resources, especially in the ALS world, are going to be dedicated to patient care.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: So you know you start to do all that.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: That means the next alarm level up.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: So certainly in our dispatch offices we say if you hear a mayday, the best practices automatically go to that next level.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: That's why we say, when you hear priority traffic and I have found a victim, automatically go to that next level.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So about is the resources that it's actually going to take to get somebody out of the building.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And you know, you talk about the rapid intervention team being there for the firefighters.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a high risk operation, right.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: So you know, getting more companies on deck so we can start to.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: But that's why there's a tactical reserve to begin with.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Right, so we can start to.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: That's why there's a tactical reserve to begin with.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: So in case the next radio transmission is either a mayday or priority traffic, whether it's I found a victim or we've got a concealed space fire or whatever it is, we're going to be able to address that with our folks there.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: What other best practice type thing I mean are we leaving out here when it comes to finding a victim and then having a firefighter emergency in the middle of that?
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: You know one JV, jv.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: One thing I'd like to that you hit on that I think we need to spend a second driving home, or at least talking about, is.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: You know, we say expect victims, right, but you said, well, what do we do with them when we bring them out?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of times you, if you call them rescues, medic units, ambulances, whatever you call them in your system I think that's a key point.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: We do a very good job of bringing them out of the building.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: We talk about that, we train on that, but we often don't have the system set up to be able to treat that patient and then transport them to the hospital, whatever that looks like within your organization or the system that you work in.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: But really think about that, what happens on a fire ground?
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: You that you work in, but really think about that, what happens on a fire ground?
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: You send a medic unit to the scene.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: What does the incident commander want to do?
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: A lot of times, well, we want to give them a fire assignment because we want to be the cool guy and we everybody loves going to fires.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: That's why we do this, right.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: But really, what happens when you find that victim?
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: You bring them out.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, if we're going to be honest with each other today, I think all of us have probably had the experience we bring a victim out, we send them in the front yard and there's nobody there to attend them.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Now we can bullshit each other in this conversation all day long.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to take my gear off and I'm going to treat the patient, but let's think about it.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: You're sweaty.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: You're sweating, your heart rate's up.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: You got no medical gear.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: You're trying to strip your gear off and still attend to the patient.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Is that really the best for the patient?
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: So I think that, as we're talking about all this and bringing somebody outside I don't care if it's a firefighter or if it's a civilian we have got to make sure that we have somebody on the outside that's there, prepared, ready to go to accept that patient and actually start treating them.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: It's great that you can bring them out fast, but what's even better is to get them the medical care that they need to survive after that incident.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: So make sure that you're doing that.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: We all want to be the cool IC and the cool officer that your guys get to go to work, but you ride an ambulance or medic unit to the scene, you have a job and if that's in your system to provide the medical care afterwards, I think it's important.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I think the whole purpose of this conversation is just to give you, the listener, some talking points so you can go back and have an intelligent conversation on rescues, because I think it's so easy to you know, either on social media or to throw out a line about it's about the rescues.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it could be and it should be.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it could be and it should be.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: But let's have an intelligent conversation on what that actually looks like when it does happen, if it does happen, and be prepared for it and challenge people the way that that grants classes.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Think about the care for the patient like Eric is talking about, and you know whether it's around the kitchen table or in a formal training setting.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Prepare people for this, because it's eventually going to happen and you're going to need to make those choices and oftentimes they're hard choices.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: They're really hard choices In the end in this thing.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Over 50% in the end pushed the fireman off to the side because he was in their path and worked to drag the victim out of the building.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: They left him behind.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: So that was interesting.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: You know, like I said, there's, there's, everybody's got in their brain.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: They got what the right answer is.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: You guys got to try to figure out what it is for you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I know my, my thought process was for the right answer on which of those, you know it came down to, you had enough manpower to get one or the other out of the building.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: It was not going to work trying to get both out because by the time they got there it was set up.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: So by the time they got there they were in a position where they were going to be running out of air soon.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So they they couldn't take all day to do it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: So, um, but yeah, over 50% left the fireman behind and took the victim out.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I think that was a great discussion.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I think it's something that, uh, we we do encourage you to have at uh your department, within your training organization.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, guys, for talking about this today.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Hey, you have time for a timeless tactical truth.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Let's do it All, right, eric does.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Timeless tactical truth from Alan Brunicini.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: This one says planning for the future simply may not work.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Planning for change is probably the best shot.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: We have Again the timeless tactical truth Planning for the future simply may not work.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Planning for change is probably the best shot we have.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: You know, Bruno always used to say we have to be willing to change and change is inevitable.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: We're going through a lot of changes right now in the fire service in general, not only with fire behaviors.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Everything is changing.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: What's your thoughts on that truth?
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Firefighters hate two things the way it is but don't change it.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: So I think change in the fire service we got to do it.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: We call ourselves professionals.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: We say we're a professional organization.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: What does that really mean to us?
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Well, we got to look at the science, the facts, the data and we got to adapt to that.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: There's no profession that I know of that is doing business the same way today that they did five, 10, 15 years ago.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: But for some reason in the fire service we want to hold on to some of those, those things, and not change, even though we have the you know the science and the data, blinded due to death reports.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: We we can't be afraid to change and I think that's something that we ride a wave.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: We're good for a second for change, and then we've we bucket, and why that is is that's the million dollar question.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the um.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with what Eric says.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: You know I always I always jokingly, you know they're jokingly say you know what in your life do you do the same way you did 30 years ago, right, other than maybe shower and a few other things?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: You probably do just about everything.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: You do different.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: You know whether it's your phone, iphone that you carry with you with you 24, seven, when before it was just a thing on the wall that had a cord to it, and, yeah, you get to it when you got to it, and if somebody called you, you were home, you got it, you didn't whatever.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, there was 30 years ago, there weren't even answering machines yet.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: So there's nothing you do today that you did 30 years ago.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: But for some reason we'll sit around and talk about this guy did this 30 years ago and we're trying to do the same thing and it's like it's all changed.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Come to FDIC.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: You want to see change?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Come to FDIC, and there are I don't know how many vendors there are, I heard there was a thousand, I don't know if that's true From little guys who got one idea.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: And you know, a fireman just out there got an idea and he put it together and he's hoping Shark Tank picks him up and he makes a million dollars.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: But everything there is change.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I mean it's unbelievable to walk around All these beautiful new fire trucks are nothing like fire trucks 30 years ago.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: All the gear stuff, all the equipment, all the tools, everything, nozzles, everything has changed.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: It's incredible.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: We have got to change with it.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: You know, every business in America has changed.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Like Eric said, it's all changing and we the it it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Every business in America has changed Like Eric said there's, it's, it's all changing and we can't.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I, I tradition's cool, right, and I'm all about the fire tradition, but but change is also part of tradition too.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Like everything changes.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's also important to think about the fire environment has changed, and I don't think anyone argues that fact that the fire environment has changed over the years.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Well, that means that the other side of the equation has to change as well.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: We can't be doing things the way we did because the fire environment's not even the same and that doesn't mean that anyone did it wrong before us, but for that time or that era it was the best that they knew and I think we need to acknowledge that and not push that aside.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Acknowledge it.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: But let's move on to what we're facing today.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: And it's not going to be the same in five years from now, and I and I think we all know that right.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: So in five years from now, what we're doing today probably isn't going to be best practice.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: It's going to be something different.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: We can't be afraid to change and keep doing the best that we can do for for everybody involved.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Before we go, I would be remiss, Eric, since you're on today.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: What are you going to be teaching at the Hazard Zone Conference in October of 2024?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: We have registration going on right now.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: You can get to that in the show notes.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: You're going to be there doing some presentations.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: We talked on the last podcast on what Grant's doing, but let us know what you're going to be doing at the conference.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Hazard Zone.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: This year we're going to be in Cincinnati Hope everybody's able to make it out.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: We're going to be rolling out the after action review.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: We talked about it last year.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: We did a little class on it last year, kind of preview and everything.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: But on the new platform B Shifter has been working on, it's going to allow us to to officially roll out the after action and really, truly, how do you measure success on the fire ground?
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: How does your department do that?
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: We're going to dive into that and give you some tools and a program that you'll be able to evaluate your department and the incident command system.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: How do you communicate?
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: And again, it all comes down to changing behavior on the fire ground to make better decisions.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: So come out and see us.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: So look forward to rolling out the program.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: It's going to be uh, it's going to be sweet JV.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: We're going to have audio.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: We're going to have video that you can put into it.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: Let's do it, yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: You know, just oddly enough, Eric and I were walking around the convention yesterday, the floor with all the displays, and, uh, we were talking to folks and just one random conversation displays.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And we were talking to folks and just one random conversation.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Someone asked us hey, when?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: is blue card going to roll out a standard after action review program and we're like, hey, as a matter of fact, here's the guy and he's got one coming.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to seeing that in October in Cincinnati at the hazard zone conference.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: So that that's going to.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a game changer for, especially for the blue card users who are going to have access to it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: All right, Thanks so much for joining us on this B Shifter podcast.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: If you haven't done so already, please subscribe, tell your friends Until next time.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to B Shifter.