Latest / The Eye of Jupiter Podcast / 73 Bluff Charges and Glowing Orbs: Psychologist John S. Baranchok’s Scientific Approach to Bigfoot

Transcript

73 Bluff Charges and Glowing Orbs: Psychologist John S. Baranchok’s Scientific Approach to Bigfoot · The Eye of Jupiter Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: And a.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the I Jubiter podcast. I'm your host,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Tim Franklin. Today we have on a wonderful mister John
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: S Baron Chock, PhD. He's an author, he's a field
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: researcher when it comes to all things bigfoot, and a
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: cool guy. He's actually taught down here on the Yugatah Peninsula,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: so we have that in common and we're gonna have
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: a great, great discussion, I am sure of it. If
• 1:34
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• 1:36
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• 1:45
  Speaker 2: hopefully soon I'll have something up extra where you guys
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: can go ahead and get some even more of what
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: you like about the show. You can also find me
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: on all your you know, social social media, except for
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: X because that's just too much for me. And you're
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: gonna also get yourself some teas and cups and mugs
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff you know to find me on rumble.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So with let's get all that out of the way. Yeah,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: we're done. Yes, we're done. Okay, please let's welcome together
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: to the show. Mister John s Parajeck Baron, Baron chock
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: p HD. Yeah, there's a there's a John. There's a
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: there's a John baroncheck too. Uh so your name is
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: very close when I go to when I go to
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: look it up, and I kept I was like, no, no, Chuck,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: welcome to the show. Thanks my my mom.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Well, my my dad's name was John Barranchuk and they
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: gave me the middle middle initial s to my so
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: for my family and friends, I'm actually known as Scott
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: my middle my middle name, and that when she was
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: yelling and screaming and scolding somebody, we knew who who's.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad did the same. Tom was when everything
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: is fine, Thomas Franklin is like he's als And if
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: you said Thomas Alan Franklin, then I know shuld has
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: hit the fan, and then I'm in a lot of trouble.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So I but to differentiate between your father and yourself,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: so to know who's in trouble, I also is very
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: helpful in any type household situation. So anyway, welcome to
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the show, man. I appreciate it. So much. I reached
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: out to you by finding you through the wonderful timey
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: column at the Let's Get Freaky podcast, and you were
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: so grightious to accept the invitation. Thank you.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I'm honored to be here and looking forward.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: To it me as well. It's been a hot day.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I was telling you it's one hundred eight degrees at
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: right now. But yeah, so please do be a favorite,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: my friend. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself and
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: where we can find you. Okay, about myself.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Born and raised in Pennsylvania, eventually settled in Rome, Georgia.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: That's where I'm currently living. UH.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Neuro and pain psychologists for most of my career. UH
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: started getting into squatching at the towards the end of
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: that career, looking for trout fishing streams and came across
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: the BFRO map thinking it was a trout fishing stream map,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: only to discover it was an expedition map, and and uh,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: that's how I started squatching. I figured, i'd, you know,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: if I'm looking for bigfoot, I'm going to be remote
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: enough to do some fishing as well, and double.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: It doubling up.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So UH started doing expeditions with Lorie Wade,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: who is an awesome expedition leader, and branched out a
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: little bit to uh Charlie Raymond's BFRO group as well
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: as his Kentucky Bigfoot Research group, and then met Sea
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Waying Totho of Manimal Research and do some investigations with
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: them to this day. So that's my experience. I tried
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: counting up the hours I have in the woods actually
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: looking for Bigfoot, searching for bigfoot, not including the camping
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and that kind of thing, and my math is challenged
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: enough that I stopped at three about three hundred hours.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: So I have more than three hundred hours of being
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in the woods at night looking for Bigfoot at this
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: point in my search seven year search.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I guess, wow, okay, but you've also written a book
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: as well. Could you tell me a little bit about
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: your book when it was released? And you know, maybe
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: what people will come to expect when they you know,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: when they buy it and open it up.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Sure it's not for the feint of heart bigfoot researcher.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So when I started watching the expeditions, I could see
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: where things could be enhanced through psychologic psychologic science and
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: certain psychologic concepts, and so I wrote a book called
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Grasping Sasquatch Prepping for Scientific Fieldwork, and it's two books
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: in one. The first half of the book is really
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: kind of background sasquatch knowledge and background psychology, knowledge of
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: concepts that are relevant to to squatching into Bigfoot.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Talk a lot about bias.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: You frequently hear people comment, well, we could prove it
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: in a court of law, why can't we prove it
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: the science. So I've got a chapter in there dedicated
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: that's interesting.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I've never heard it put that way before. That's very interesting.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: So I got a chapter in there kind of looking
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: at laws and types of evidence that can be introduced
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: into courts versus scientific and how they're weighed differently to
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: help people understand that. And that's all in book one,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: and then in book two, I focus more on science
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: and talk.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: About uh a little bit about.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, what's the woman's the veterinarian's name that
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: did no that did the bigfoot study. I'm blocking on
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: her name.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I know you're talking about screaming at the screen right now, John,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: don't worry, but I don't know. I don't remember it either,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: So I'll up in the hole with you.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: School it will come to me at some point, So
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I talk a little bit about her, propose some experiments
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: on infrasound, and then teach experimental design and statistics, and
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: give examples of how that could be applied to bigfoot
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: field research. Design some hypothetical experiments that you could then
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: reduce down to numbers to be statistically analyzed as ways
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: to measure bigfoot and parse out human influence, for example,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: from bigfoot. For example, wood knocks, how do you ever
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: really truly know if it's a bigfoot or a human
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: making that tree knock? And you know, right now, we're
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: we're kind of stuck in an observational model where we
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: make that judgment without the not being seen and based
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that judgment on the quality of the knox and some
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: other factors. Well, in the book I talk I talk
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: you through an experiment that would allow us to extract
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: any human influence from the tree knocks that we hear
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: through an experiment in the field, and then use statistical
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: analysis to show how much is a human influence versus
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: a bigfoot influence.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Interesting because people are having You're saying, it's possible that
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: we're having some type of precognitive situation when we go
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: out there and we hear that, and why couldn't it
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: be just a tree cracker from the wind or dead
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: fall or a number of other things or anything could
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: be just like you know, it could be a stone
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: falling off a hillside and smashing. It could be a
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: number of things. And you because it's kind of like
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Hollywood at this point in some aspects in the big
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Foot in Bigfoot research. Yeah, you know, you know, you
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: see someone shoot a hire and you think, oh, they're
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: just gonna you know, it's gonna go pop, and it's
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: just it's not true. And all you know, car falling
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: down a hill and just blows up every time. You know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: that's not going to happen. I think that's a very
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: very interesting approach. So this is gonna be I guess
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: we'll just go ahead, get it out of the way.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: What's happening? What is your what is your opinion on
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: what's happening in the forest around the world. You know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: they have different names and different tribal people. I just
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: talked to mister opit Uh in Australia and he was
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: talking to me about the Yahui and what he's been
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: experiencing out there. He's been deep in the forest of Borneo,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: and uh, where was the other one? That's that crazy?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: The wild one and Papua New Guinea and all that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: And he's also had dilazine, which is the Tasmanian tiger. Uh,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: you know, it's it's pretty incredible. What's going on at
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: least in our neck of the woods here in North
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: America and especially in the East East coast. What what
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: do you what have you experienced? What is your what
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: is your take on what's going on out there? We'll
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: start with responding by the short answers rather than my
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: experiences and get into my experiences, you know.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I So, I think a lot of questions people typically
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: ask me to answer. The response is easy, and that
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: response is, we have insufficient scientific data to make conclusions.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: We're using a scientific observational model that really the validity
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: of the evidence boils down to the voice of opinion
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and reputation rather than scientific not rather than more objective decisions.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Let me put it that way.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: And so I think part of what needs to happen
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: is we need to make a shift to more experimental
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: kind of evidence gathering and take ourselves out of that
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: decision making process. About the validity of the data and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: what it's telling us using experimental design and statistical analysis.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of stepping back from a big picture.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: The big question that you know everybody seems to debate
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: is origins and what is the origin of this creature? I,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: you know, I believe there's something out there and believe
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: you know, we call it bigfoot or sasquatch. My encounters,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I've had two butt pinching Class B encounters. I have
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: yet to have a Class A encounter.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: But you know, if.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: You know, you'd have to be quite a skeptic to
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: go on an expedition and have an intense Class BE
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: encounter and not reconsider your skepticism, because the experiences can
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: be pretty powerful and i'd say pretty convincing at that.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: I started as an open minded skeptical on my first expedition,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and probably by my third outing, which I did by myself, actually,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I became, you know, a true believer because I got
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: growled at by a bigfoot at about ninety feet away
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: from my campfire ring. So you know, I think there's
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: there's something out there, whether it's a relatominid, whether it's
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: an inter dimensional creature, whether it's an alien, whether it's
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a demon.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I you know, I really don't think.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: We know enough to be able to characterize it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: The main I think, probably the most popular theory is
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the evolutionary theory and the different subdivisions of them, you know,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: because we're looking at footprints.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: A lot, but.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: There's still a lot of and I'm not discounting the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: footprint evidence at all when I say this, but there's
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: still a lot of human logic and reasoning involved in
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: examining those footprints and examining those data. And I think
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: we've got to have a human element. But I think
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the more we can keep that out of the front
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: end of the research, the more likely our conclusions are
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: going to be valid. So I don't know, I feel
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: like I'm rambling at this point. I'm not sure if I.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: You're doing fine, You're doing fine, You're doing fine. I
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: think you're actually saying something that I believe as well.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I have yet to have any type of encounters with
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: with these creatures. Uh on the Yucatan. I've had a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Lucia's encounters, which you probably knew about when you were
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: down here. No, it's interesting, So John, John, is actually
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: you I don't know if I can said it. He's
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: actually tall at a school here in Merida. And you okay,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: all right, all right that this is my this is
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: my third language. I'm a fluent German speaker as well.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I lived in your twenty years. Yeah, dude, we're all
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: around the world. We do we we have been and
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: see things. Uh, it's just uh so, so you you're
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: in Georgia, Athens, Georgia. I think that's what you said
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: in Athens, correct, Rome, Georgia, Rome, Georgia. Pardon me? Yeah, yeah,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I don't I know, you know, Atlanta course, and and
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I've actually was in a I t in Uh where
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: was the Augustus? I think that's the capital. Yes, go ahead,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, not a problem. And yeah, so I've actually
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: been to Georgia myself. But it's just what brought you
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: to that area. Is just that you just happened to
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: move in that era? Or is it particularly because of
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: this phenomenon that you are now trying to kind of
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: pimp down a little bit.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: So when I realized I wanted to be a psychologist,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I realized that was going to be a lot of
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: time in school. So I made a commitment to myself
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: to just not go to school or take a job
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: in the same state consecutively. So after I got a
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: master's degree in Pennsylvania, my home state, I moved to Idaho,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: and from Idaho to New Mexico, and New Mexico to
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Kentucky and then Kentucky to Rome. And so I came
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to Rome. I was recruited by a a rehabilitation hospital
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: as a neuropsychologist in Rome, Georgia, and that's how I
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: ended up settling in Rome. And I, you know, one day,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to I I'm relative. You know, I really didn't.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I think I had a big Foot experience before I
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: ever thought of Bigfoot. But I really didn't start thinking
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: about Bigfoot, honestly until I came across what I thought
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: was that trout fishing map, and it turned out to
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: be in the BFRO expedition map, and that's when I
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: started thinking about it.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, trout fishing is quite a big, big thing in Pennsylvania.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I lived in Pennsylvania for a year back when I
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: was like eleven years old. I'm from Maryland, so we're
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: right there. I don't know which part of your alm
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: and I'm from right outside of Baltimore. I was to Baltimore. Yeah,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: so uh yeah, so we've we've been around, you traveled around.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: It's very cool that you get to do something that
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: you actually enjoy. You look like you must enjoy your
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: job if you've done it for as long as you have.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And you're just like, I'm going to trout fish during
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: a weekend, weekend warrior stuff and you run across this
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: map and like kind of walking through like so that
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: you just started, like, you know, meeting these people and
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: then you started going out and doing research yourself. How
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: did that come to pass? Well?
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: You know, on one hand, every expedition is a research opportunity,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you know, and and but I I, you know, I didn't. I.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I came to my first expedition, as I said, with
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: an open skepticism and.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: So you know it.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time trying to examine and
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: learn and see how the research happens. And so you know,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: BFRO is primarily an experiential research organization. The nuts and
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: bolts of it are, you go out at night but
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: a time opportunities are available, and but typically at night
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: in small groups of four to six, and uh, you
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: try and encounter bigfoot. You try and do some provocations,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: look for bigfoot evidence, so on and so forth, and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: uh so, you know, that's that's how I start getting
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: into it. I was a boy scout, so I always
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: enjoyed camping, so it was a it was a good
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: fit as well growing up. But I'm sorry at this
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: point I've lost track of your question.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: To be honest, it's not a problem. It's not a problem.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: This is what this is my job as the host.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: You you, you're the You're the host e, and I'm
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: the host or wolf. We'll figure it out. We'll figure
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: it out. That's franchise. So all right, so you go
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: out there and you're you. Uh so I was you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I did do a little bit of a little bit
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: of researcher. I do like to keep things a bit
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: fresh when I listen to when I listen to, uh,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: you know, upcoming guests, it's important that I'm also surprised
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and that my reactions are genuine to what's happening. So
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: what it was the so what kind of evidence are
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: you are you seeing? What kind of experiences are you
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: having when you're going out there? And how much detail
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: do you want me to go into you can go
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to you can go in as little or are you.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: First of all, you can qualify what is a Class
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: A and a Class B siting for the layman as myself.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the bf R O H irrespective of what
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you know. The BFRO for some people as a controversial
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: organization Bigfoot Field Research Organization. But no matter what you
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: how you feel about them, they've done some important work.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the pieces of important work
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: is they developed a class classification system for encounters and
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: they divide they divide bigfoot and sasquatch encounters into three levels,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Class A, Class B, and Class C. And it's in
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: much more detailed verbiage than I'm about to give you
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the verb. The verbiage is actually in my book. It's
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: part of my book and on one of my podcast shows.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: But a Class A encounter is where you undeniably and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: clearly I are able to identify what you're seeing as
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: a bigfoot, like there's there's no doubt that it is.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: You know, if somebody is with you, they agree. You know,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: it's clearly not a man in a suit, it's clearly
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: not a bear. You know, it's it's not being misidentified.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Most of these do happen in broad daylight, because the
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: ones that happen at night, that's where you begin to
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: get into the A B gray line, because you might
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: see a shadow darting across the road, but can you
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: be sure that was a bigfoot? You know, because happens
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: so fast, And so that's the Class BE encounters are
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: when you have an experience that you're reasonably assured is
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: associated with bigfoot, and would include things like tree knocks,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: stone clacks, finding footprints, foot casts, vocalizations, things where you
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: can't clearly identify a bigfoot producing that phenomena because you
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: didn't see him producing that phenomena, but that are highly
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: associated with bigfoot. And then class C phenomena is hearing
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: somebody else's story secondhand, Like if I told you a
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: story about one in one group of researchers that went
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: out and got attacked by bigfoot, that would be that
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: would constitute a Class C encounter for you if you
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: were keeping keeping keeping track.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: So I have, I've had multiple Class C encounters by
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: while talking by talking to a gentlemen as yourself and
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: other people. Okay, interesting, so I follow in her category C.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: So what was okay? You were saying that you were
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You've had you've had two class being experiences, one of
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: them in which you were growled at from a distance
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: of about ninety feet in ninety yards I think he
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: said ninety feet. Walk me into that and how was
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: that expedition and what happened?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: So about a month earlier, Laurie Wade, she has guest
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: speakers on her expeditions to show different perspectives. And Scott Carpenter,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if familiar with I am familiar with
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Scott Carpenter.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, quite quite.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: He's left quite a mark in the Bigfoot community and
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: well deserves his.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: His flowers.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he he came and gave a talk and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: told us about his initial experiences and ongoing experiences and
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: how he does the research with the camera facing backwards
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: rather than forward as he hikes forward. And that was
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: my first introduction to cloaking and bigfoot being able to
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: disappear in the blink of an eye. And you know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: some people attribute that to inter dimensional shifts. Some people
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: say bigfoot can immediately alter the vibrations of their cellular
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and molecular structure and disappear or blend in. Some people
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: talk about that being a chameleon likability. Some people talk
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: about that just being there so their physical prowess and
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: quickness and forest smarts, that they can move that quick
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and blend in that quick. So there are different thoughts
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: on that, but he was talking about cloaking, and Scott
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: believed that Bigfoot were nephilum and or nephal I'm not
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: sure what the correct pronunciation was, but nephyl were when
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: when And I don't mean to offend any guests that
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that aren't Christian. You don't have to believe in Christianity,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: but this was Scott's belief. Nephelm were the banished angels
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: when God sensed Satan and the other banished angels out
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: of heaven and they came down and promised to corrupt
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: humanity by having sex with humans. And so Nephalm are
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: believed to be the offspring of that union, and so
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: in the strictest sense, their demons.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, he.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Believed they could materialize and de materialize given those those
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: demonic powers.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: And so I came away with that from that talk.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: That was the first time I've heard that, and I
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: try and remain open, but honestly, I was pretty skeptical.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: So a month later, I've got a I've got a
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: state park called the Pocket and it adjoins a federal
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Wildlife Management area called John's Mountain State Parks. That's about
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: a fifty minute drive from my house. And so I
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: just love camping. But you know, this was early on
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: in my introduction to Bigfoot. So I decided I'd check
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: it out, that this area out and see if I
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: could find a camping spot that looked like it was
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a good Bigfoot location. So I drove around and found
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: a multi site camp spot like it had five tent
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: pallets or trailer pallettes in one big area that was enclosed,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: and a little bit I learned about what makes something
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: squatchy at that point was that it had the camps.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: The campsites themselves were sat down in a basin, and
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: on either side of the campsites there were rock ridges
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: running all the way back towards a big mountain, probably
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: two or three miles in the distance, and on if
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: you were facing it entering it. On the left side
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: of that ridge, there was a stream running down the
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: base of that rock, and then that poured into the river,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: the main river that was across the road. Okay, so
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you know, I learned, you know, we're the bait. Give
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: them the high ground. They had plenty of high ground there,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: so I thought that looked like a pretty good, pretty
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: good spot. So I have a little tiny like a
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: tear drop trailer, but not a tear drop trailer that
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I camp in. And I took my dog because after
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: seeing the photographs and pictures in Scott Carpenter's book of
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: What Followed Him, for the first time in my life,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I was afraid to go in the woods by myself.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: So I took my So I took my pit bull
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: with me. We set up camp. Yeah, we set up camp.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: We walked down along the base of the ridge that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: had the stream looking for footprints, couldn't find anything, no
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: bigfoot sign. Walked back to camp, started setting up for dinner,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: eating dinner, just wrapping up dinner as dusk is coming,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: and just sitting there relaxing and wrote. Red was tied
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: onto a hundred foot rope. We were the only ones
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in the campsite, and I didn't want to have to
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: restrict him or and keep him, you know, held on
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: a short leash, and he's chilling about five feet from
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: me near the firing and all of a sudden, he
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: sits up on his hind quarters and he sticks that
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: pointy nose up in the air perpendicular to the sky
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and start sniffing. And he sits like that for five minutes.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I have never seen any dog sit and sniff like
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that in my life, and I've had dogs and grown
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: up around dogs my whole life. And when he brought
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: his head down, he started snarling and aggressively growling and chomping,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: chomping out And it was as if he was seeing
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: something right in front of us, you know, by the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: level of his head and the direction his head wasn't
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: turned one direction or another. He was looking at something
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: or sensing something at his twelve o'clock and he just
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: went he just went ape shit. And so I said, okay,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't see a thing. I couldn't see a
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: damn thing. It wasn't completely dark. The sun was below
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the horizon, but there was still some light in the sky.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: And so I went and got my headlamp and I said, okay, Red,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: let's go, let's go check it out. And when I
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: took him off the rope to a short or fourteen
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: foot leach. He wouldn't move forward.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I tried to tug him and drag him, and he
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: wouldn't do a thing.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Okay. I put him back on the rope and he
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: scurried under my camper. Wow.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: And so it was like, oh shit. So despite my
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: despite my I guess this is more of a comment
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: on me than anything else. But despite my smite, my
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: skepticism about Bigfoot's cloaking. Still, as I walked forward alone
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to investigate this, I literally put my hands out in
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: front of me, straight in front of me, with my
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: elbows locked, for fear that if I didn't I might
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: bump into a cloaked bigfoot. I was so short, I
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: was so sure that there was something out there that
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: he was seeing or sensing that I couldn't see. And
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I wasn't going to risk belly bumping with a bigfoot.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: So I walked out to the paved road, looked up
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and down the road, walked up and down the road.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Nothing went back to firing got read out from under
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the trailer. We're sitting chilling for about three minutes, and
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting at about one o'clock to the entrance to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: this camp. Campground, and Red gets up again, walks to
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: about my one o'clock, sticks his head up in the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: air again, and this time, instead of sitting there for
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: five minutes, he sits there for five three to five
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: seconds and brings his head down and again just growling, snarling, snapping, barking,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you know, just really aggressive. And as he's going on
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: and on and on some bushes, I went back and
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: measured him. Ninety feet away from me, A little sapling
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: tree with some low growth around it starts rattling, and
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: from that bush, I hear above my dog's commotion.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I hear this.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: That's when my butt puckered.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: And and I've heard bear ye, I've heard bear growls
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: and cat growls, and I can tell you this wasn't
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: either of them.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: And so oh, I.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Slowly got up, and I walked to my truck. And
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I keep I keep a forty five Smith and Weston
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Military Police pistol in my truck. Never needed to draw it,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: and haven't needed to draw it since. But I got
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it out of the glove compartment, pulled it out of
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: the holster, and I chambered around all the time this
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: commotion continuing going the growling that my dogs snarling and snapping,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: bush rattling, And when I chambered that round, that growling
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: and bush rattling stopped. Wow, And my dog stopped and
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: settled down. And it was dead quiet when I chambered
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: that round. And I didn't have the inclination to walk
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: that ninety feet that night too, that brush and that
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: sapling to investigate further. To be honest with you, I
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: was proud. I was proud of staying up another fifteen
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: minutes before.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, before I read it. Did you notice, John, did
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: you notice any like after okay, after the noise stopped
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: or anything. What did you notice after that, of course
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: has stopped. Did you notice anything leaving or or it
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: was just complete silence or anything. It was just dead silence.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Didn't hear anything scurrying away in the brush or anything
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: It was just dead silence.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I honestly, it took forever to fall asleep that night
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: in the trailer because I kept expecting it to come.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Back into camp.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And you know, I made sure to clean up camp
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: really good of any food and garbage and put the
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: food far away from my trailer. But I was expecting
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: it to come back into camp. And slap on my
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: trail or throw nuts or something like that. I've I've
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: since been back to that location four times, that same
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: complex of campsites, and talking with other people that have
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: camped there, they've had pebbles and stones thrown at their tent.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: And one night I went back there with a fellow
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: researcher and he kind of had a paranormal Well, one
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: time I went back with a fellow researcher and we
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: didn't hear any tree knocks, but we left a long
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: delayed recorder and you know, in the early morning hours,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: we got some tree knocks recorded, and then went back
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: to a campsite on the opposite side of the street,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: down about two hundred yards from that one, the one
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: I've been discussing, and I had a buddy have a
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: kind of a paranormal experience there.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: So okay, I mean, you're not going to just leave
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: me with that one. And unexplained that, what would you
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: mean a paranormal experience?
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, as you know, paranormal, Well, I don't know
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: if paranormal is even the right word. I think there's
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: a subjective element to those experiences, of course, and so
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: we couldn't get this guy's also this person's also a psychologist,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: and we couldn't we couldn't get the All five sites
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: were occupied where the site that I was growled at.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: So we found another multi site place and went down there,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: and I was not at all optimistic. I don't know,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: but we set up our camp to explored the area
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: and no obvious sign, drove around looking for other sites,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: spent the night midway up a mountain at a campfire
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: seeing if anything we could draw anything in. And I
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: think it was the second night we were there when
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: we laid down in the camper. I've got a I've
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: got a service dog who's a half bull mast and
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: half h Anatolian shepherd, so he weighs he weighs eighty pounds,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: and I can sleep comfortably in my trailer. Two big
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: men and the dog. But this was the first time
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: this gentleman and I had been out.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: On cue. My dog starts saying, I'm a little spooked out, John,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I'm a little spooked out Coss.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And I wanted everything, you know, I wanted him to
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: be as comfortable as as he could in my trailer.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So we laid down and I kept my dog outside
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: on the side that I was sleeping on and had
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: him lay down right by the door, and we laid
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: down to go to sleep, and I start hearing this
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: gurgling sound coming out from under my trailer. But my
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: dog's not spooked or disturbed or anything, not acting strange,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: but an unmistakable gurgling sound.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: And it went on and on and on, and.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: It was so unnatural to me that I eventually decided,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what this is, but it's
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: not something I ever heard or experienced, and I don't
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: want my dog out there with whatever it is causing that.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: So I brought my dog in.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: And you know, a big dog can only come into
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: us a six by eight t railer, so gingerly. So
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: we tried not to wake this person up, and he
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: got settled in between us, and we both and we
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: both ended up falling asleep. And in the middle of
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the night, this gentleman started it sounded like he was dreaming,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: kind of mumbling into indistinctly, and then started up as
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: in startled, startled, and sat up.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Like he was spooked.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: And I thought my dog had shifted and maybe stepped
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: on his leg and you know, scared him or you know,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: woke him up in a start. But I had been listening,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: laying there listening to him for a bit and then
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: when he jumped up, I kind of, uh put put
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: my hand on his arm and I said, I think
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: you're having a bad dream, buddy. It's okay, it's okay.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe hass woke you up. And he said, John, I
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: was experiencing a bigfoot looking in our window, our trailer window.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: And so we pulled apart the curtains and looked in
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the window and didn't see any evidence of that. And
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the next day when next morning when we woke up,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: didn't see any evidence of that, you know, look for
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: footprints and handprints on the window, and you know, I
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: thought he might have just had a dream. He feels
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: pretty strongly that it wasn't a dream. It was either
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a trance experience for him or a some of some
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: kind of other encounter on a different plane for him.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've heard of It was before I had
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Jason Selawska on in a long time ago, and he
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: was talking about being camping in Canada and he said
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: it felt like when he fell asleep, there was a
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: like they actually like grabbed the trailer it felt like
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: and they were like kind of rocking him to sleep.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: So I've yeah, I've heard of all all types of encounters.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: It's uh, but they have that experience of the gurgling
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: noise and then which is unexplainable, and then the you know,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: the subsequent like waking up and being you know, like
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: what what was that and trying to figure that's uh,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: that's a bit different, John, What is what has been
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: the most like you know, I'm sure you've spoken to
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: people in the areas that you've gone to, you know,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: being a psychologist as yourself, you know, you you you
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: you think about you know, what kind of markings are
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: in their mind when they're you know, the things that
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: are maybe affecting which part of the brain emotionally as
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: well as psychologically. What has been the most like intriguing
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: thing for you about what you're doing. It's a great question.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I've never been asked that question. I don't know to
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: say thank you or no. It's a great questionological profile too.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: One day, I'm sure I got a couple, got a
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: couple of screws loose, that's been.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I intentionally, you know, I've made my research
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: focus on bigfoot phenomena rather than big footers, because researching
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: big footers is a potentially slippery slope in my opinion,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: because people tend to be a little bit sensitive about
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: their experiences and things of that nature.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, they can say like they like to fall
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: into the two, like, you know, they're only this or
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: they're only that because their experience varies from somebody else's
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: experience and therefore they like to stand there and you know,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: posturely from their soapbox that happens.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're there. There's still a stigma, stigma associated
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: with believing in bigfoot or having an interest in bigfoot.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: You know, I got it into it late in my
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: career and working in private practice, and I just didn't
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: give a darn about what anyone thought.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: You know. I was never in a closet to come
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: out with it.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: I was just upfront with people about it and just
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: dealt with it. But so there is a stigma associated
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: with it. It's hard for me to pin something down intriguing.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: You know, some friends have experienced some really interesting encounters.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Intriguing.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I think the whole I think the whole
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: wove phenomena, the whole, the whole paranormal side. Excuse me,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I'm getting a message that my battery is running low.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: That's not a problem. We can we can cut this part.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: It's not a problem.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Now. I thought I had plugged in my laptop and
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I just hadn't, So uh, we're good. The whole wolf phenomena,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I think is fascinating simply because it's more of a
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: challenge to investigate scientifically, and as much as as much
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: as those of us in the Bigfoot community rail against
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: non believers and skeptics calling us crazy, the wolf community,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: by many in the big Foot community, is considered the
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: crazies of the Bigfoot community. So that whole dynamic, you know,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: that whole dynamic in and of itself, is kind of
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: interesting that we would be that judgmental about members of
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: our same community.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: But it's human nature too, isn't it. It's human nature too.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but scientifically, you know, and big name researchers, doctor O,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: I won't, I won't mention names, but big name researchers
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: refuse to take a look at it. And I guess
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: this is intriguing to me. They because it it the
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: WU factor is outside of their world of view. You know,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: physical science, see it, touch it, feel it, and if
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I can't do that or measure it, I don't want
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: anything to do with it. And for me, that's akin
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to back in the dark Ages, when you know, everybody
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: went to the barber for blood lettings, no matter what,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: go to the barber for blood lettings. And when the
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: microscope was initially invented, it was disbelieved. You know, people
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: didn't believe in germs and viruses in that kind of thing.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: That something invisible could make us sick was unthought of,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: and for the longest time, people would never consider that.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And so you know, if that attitude was maintained, god
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: knows where medical science would be at this point, would
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: still be in the Dark Ages, at the barbershop getting
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: blood lettings.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: So I think, I think.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: We gotta, we got to take a look at the
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: full spectrum, even if some of it may be out of.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Our own personal view.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, that's that's an intriguing aspect of the
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: bigfoot community.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I think. Yeah, I think that I think we have
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: to look at all avenues of approach because it is
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: it is, it is a distinctly interesting phenomenon. I mean,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: dog men kind of falls in there too. I don't
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: know what you know about that, of what you've heard
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: about that, but big it seems to be a little
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: more common play. It's you know, fringe as it is,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: it's still you know, people are like I seem to
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: run across more people who have experienced it, you know what.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: You know what it be the you know, the twist
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: breaks or the nesting or the things that they call
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: nesting or the things that they call twist breaks. Yeah,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: than than the actual dogmen encounters. But it's I think
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: we are you know, you know, cutting our nose off
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: despite our face if we're not looking into this. Uh,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: and I have to, I have to. I'd have to
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: agree with you. I think it's important man, and it
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: is human nature, you know, you know, be me being
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: a stand up. You know, we we uh we we
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: people like the clumb together with the comedians that we
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: don't like, like, oh that person is just in it
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: for this. Or when I was a musician, which I
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: still am, you know, we kind of go around the
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: bands that we do like, and that's how we kind
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: of get together to write music. Oh you like, okay
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: that kind of fits and what would that be like together.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: But uh, there's a lot of that I get. You know,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: there's people who who've been you know, like you know,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: attacked online because of their their experiences, which is crazy
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: because I've had politicus experiences. I when I was eight
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: years old, I didn't shut and slam the door on
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: my own face. It was on the side where I
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: could have slanted it. I'd have to reach to do so,
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: but I didn't do it. I remember I was there,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: you know, I and someone could look at you, look
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: at you and say, oh, you got growled out in
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: the woods. Oh what is that? That's nothing, you know
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: what I mean, could be x y Z, but I'd
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: imagine the low register of it made you go, no,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I am a woodsman and this is not the yeah yeah,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: As somebody with a doctorate degree I've and entering the
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: bigfoot community, I kind of feel and in psychology nonetheless,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I kind of feel like somebody with a multiple personality
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: because the experiencer in me just wants the experience, you know,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: I just want to see one. But the scientist in
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: me knows that that will never be enough to prove anything,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: and if the species needs help to get the species,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: the help it needs. I don't know how much more
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: time we got, but I would like to share with
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: your viewers my equally butt puckering encounter.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: If we've got absolutely John we have, we have as
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: little or as much time you want. If we go
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: over an hour, I'll just well do a little quick
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: cut and then I could put it. I'm starting to
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: you know, like a little thing, like a little extra
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: like where people can go, Oh, you still want to
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: hear it? Okay, you can check it out for you know,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: like a minimum like three bucks a month or something
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: whatever I decide. So yeah, no worries. Okay, so again
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: this was an number one. Let me say this. I
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: haven't had.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I envy versus have a little bit, have some skepticism
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: about people who see them every time they go out,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: or you know, some people describe a familial relationship with them.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I think it would be cool if that was the case,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: and I stay open to that. But you know, I
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I've been out in the woods quite a bit, and
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: there are quite many expeditions that I've been on where
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't have any experience. It's not like every time
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I go out I have some kind of class be
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: encounter with a bigfoot. But this is probably one of
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: my most convincing and impressive ones to me and butt
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: puckering ones for me. And this happened in Tennessee.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Eastern Tennessee. I'm having Harley Owens. I don't know if
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: you know Harley's Harley Owens is big follower. Yeah, friend
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: of mine. Yeah. I think if you go back out there,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: you will have some more because Tennessee. I don't know
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: what it is about that place.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Harley and I are speaking at a at a
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: little a little conference here in a month together.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool and tell him I said hi when you
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: see him. Okay.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And so back in the Civil War days when things
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: are just getting stirred up, they they started a draft.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: They called it a consignment, and you know, I don't
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: know what their criteria were, but I'm sure able bodied
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: men were required to consign themselves to the military. And
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: this guy gentlemen didn't want to be consigned. So he
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: took his family way up into the Tennessee Mountains and
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: built a log cabin up three quarters of the way
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: up the side of this mountain and hung out there
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: during the Civil War to avoid.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Being consigned and not be in the war.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Well, that cabin still stands today in this park, and
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: when this happened, you could rent it, understanding they're doing
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: some restoration to it, but eventually you'll be you may
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: be able to rent it again. But at this point,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: so nayap four cars traveled through the night and dirt
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: roads to the bank of a stream and we for
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: three streams that the expedition leader again Lori Wade, and
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: her team had built some makeshift bridges with some palletts
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: and a rope so that you didn't have to get
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: your ankles wet. You know, it wasn't like they were
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: deep streams, but just to keep your feet dry. And
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: so there were there were fifteen of us, three groups
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: of three, groups of four and a group of three,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: and we all hiked up to this three quarters of
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: the way up this mountain to this cabin, and we
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: were going to put we deployed from there. One person
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: went back down and was squatching around the base of things.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: One a group of three stayed at the cabin kind
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: of like as a makeshift base camp. And then I
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: was in a group that was supposed to go up
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: this really steep deer trail from the cabin up to
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: a forest road, and we were supposed to go right
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: and another group was supposed to go left. I still
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: don't understand the logistics or how it this worked, but
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: we went left instead of right, and I don't know
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: where this other group went. The plan was to first
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: to go in opposite directions and then meet around the
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: backside of the mountain. Okay, okay, that was the plan,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: so no sooner we get up there. Uncharacteristically, because I'm
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: one of the fattest and most out of shape in my.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Group, I was in the love self deprecation as a comedy.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: It's paramount.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I'm nothing if not honest.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: But I was in the lead uncharacteristically.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: After we got up that that steep, muddy deer trail,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: because it had been raining the night before and all day.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: But the storm broke at around sunset, but it was
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: still overcast. You couldn't see the moon, nothing really dark,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: So we climbed up the deer trail. It was there
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: was still some sunlight at this point again dusk, and
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: we start walking up the fire road, and the fire
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: road hadn't been maintained, so the grass was about up
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: to our up to our hips, and immediately, with me
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: being in the front, I noticed that all you could
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: hear was the water trickling down the mountain from the
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: rainstorm and the leaves rustling in the tree because it
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: was still kind of windy, and George Wrigley. It was myself,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: George Wriggly, Jez Mark Ogilby, and Dan Keggiley and Dan
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: is featured in this story in an interesting way, In
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: an interesting way. George and Mark were very you know,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: ten to fifteen years of big footed and under our belt,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: and Dan and I were newbies. So you know, it's quiet,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: It's dead quiet. No no chipmunks or squirrels rustling in
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: the underbrush, just no animal signs or sound.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Not even tree frogs.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I expected to hear tree frogs after a rain, you know,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: when things are clearing up. No tree frogs, nothing, just
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: water trickling down the mountain and the tree leaves rustling
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: in the wind. And I said to George, George, is
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: this the kind of silence you're talking about when Bigfoot's
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: in the area. He said, well, John, you know it
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: gets this silent, but usually your spidy senses tingle. You
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: get this sense that you're being watched or followed or
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you get this uncomfortable feeling, and none of
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: us seem to be feeling that. So now I don't
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: think that's what this silence means.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: So our goal was to meet this other group around the.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Backside of the mountain.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: So we start hiking up this gradually sloped fire road
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: and we for an hour, and we keep trying to
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: use the walkie talkie to get a hold of them.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Can't get a hold of them, still quiet, don't see
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: any signs of wildlife. We walk another hour, like becoming
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: the death march. At this point we were thinking we
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: should have connected with this group. We try the walkie
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: talkies again, and we finally connect up with them, and
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: they took a path. To make a long story short,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: they took a path that meant we we wouldn't no
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: matter how much we walk, we would never join.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Up with them. We wanted to connect with them, but.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: We asked them about wildlife.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: You guys see any wildlife? Oh my goodness.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we spooked some turkey roosting in the woods. We
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: spook some roosting in the trees. We've seen you know,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: squirrels and chipmunks and deer, and there's even evidence of
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: pigs rooting in the in the soil.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Right on the road.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: You know, Wow, we haven't seen a thing or any sign.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: So at that point we realized we weren't gonna connect
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: up with these guys. So we start walking back down
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: hill towards the deer trail. And these guys all well
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: educated and smart people, but they liked hearing me talk
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: about hypnosis, and we often talked about how hypnotic influences
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: could be influencing people's perception of Bigfoot and their experiences
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: of Bigfoot.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, And we were getting close to the to.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: The deer trail trail, maybe five six hundred yards from
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: the deer trail, and I don't know what sentence I said,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: but it really struck a cord with George and he.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: It was so it was.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: George leading us. I was besides behind George, Dan Kegley
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: was behind me, and Mark Ogleby was bringing up the rear.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: And I don't know what I said, but George stopped
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: on a dime and pivoted on his heel and took
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: about two steps towards me and said, joh and got
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: out the first consonant of my name, and before he
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: could get out any other sound, this explosion happened over
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: our head, a tree pushover that positively sounded like a
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: bomb going off above us. And I mean it sounded
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: like a bomb. And then that immediately was followed by
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: what I thought. So I thought I was gonna be
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: I thought I was dead for fourteen seconds because we
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: got a recording of it. It sounded like a landslide
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: was coming down on top of us.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: George and I scurried a little bit down the path.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Mark Ogleby scurried a little bit further up the road,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: and dan Kegley, with his fight and flight, he decided
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: to fight, and he pivoted on his on his hand,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: on his foot, looked up the mountain and went to
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: pull his k bar knife out, and he was ready to.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Tackle what was ever headed our way.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: I you know, I was thinking, rocks knife isn't going
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: to do you much good against rocks. But he was
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: ready to fight, and so I nicknamed him Braveheart.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: From that day we got to go camping. All right, Okay,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: I know who you are a little bit. That's cool.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: So so you know all this took, you know, eighteen
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: seconds and you know, puckered butt heart racing. What the
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: hell the radio comes on? Did you hear that? That
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: tree push over? It was like no shit, it happened
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: almost on top of our heads. And honest to god,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: I have never been in a landslide, but as a kid,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: I've created a few small ones, and you know, rocks
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: and logs going down a steep slope. They roll for
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: a while and then they hit something in their airborne
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: and the sound stopped. And then that was going on
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: in front of us, and fifty yards on either side
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: of us. And when this was going on, I was just,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: honest to god, I was expecting this huge tree to
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: come rolling down on top of me and big boulders.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: It was that loud.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: I just expected the side of the mountain to be
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: coming down onto the fire road and killing us. Not
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: a single pebble or tree branch hit that road, that
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: fire forest road. But as we were looking up the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: mountains with our lights the same instant I saw these
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: these little particles settling on us. I smelled loam. Do
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: you know what loam smells like? No?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: I didn't know.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: It's that real fertile, fertile soil that you get from
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: like composting, okay, the rotting kind of, I just didn't
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: know the words.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all around us.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Loans started settling down on us, and so we spent
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: thirty five forty minutes trying to look for evidence of
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: what that was, because as much as it sounded like
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: a landslide, we sure didn't have any evidence it was
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: a landslide. But if it was, it stopped pretty conveniently.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: So we exhaust our our investigation looking up the mountain.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: We decide we're going to come back in the day,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: so we put two vertical sticks forming an X right
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: where we had this experience, so we'd know exactly where
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: it happened when we'd come back the next day. So
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: at this point, we've got probably three hundred yards to
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: the head of the deer trail to go down to
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: the cabin, and we start walking that three hundred yard
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: cards and about half to three quarters away towards that
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: deer trail, the walkie talkie comes on again. Are you
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: guys on the deer trail or the or the uh
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: fire road. We're on the fire road. We're coming back down.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: We're we're about to hit the deer deer trail. Ten
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: for We get down to the deer trail and we
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: start working our way down the deer trail, and it
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: was dangerous.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: You had to pick your.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: Handholds and footholds because it was a very steep slope
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: and kind of a clay substrate, so it was very slippery.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: It was like going down to the side of a
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: nice mountain, so you got to work your way down.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: It's slow, and we're about midway down it and the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: damn walkie talkie goes off again. Are you guys, Are
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: you guys on the deer trail or are you guys
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: on the fire road. We're on the deer trail, Now,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: why do you keep asking where we're at? Well, when
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: you guys were on the fire road, about thirty or
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: forty yards behind you, there were either some orbs or some.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Eyes following behind.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: And now that you're on the deer trail, those things
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: are following you down the deer trail. So we turn
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: and we pivot and everybody focuses up the deer trail.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: We don't see a damn thing in the woods. Nothing.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: We stayed still for a bit, you know, tried to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: look closely. Didn't see a thing. So we made our
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: way down the deer trail, and there was a patch
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: of woods, you know, maybe a twenty twenty yard patch
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: of woods between the deer trail and the cabin property.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: So we get to the cabin and now all fifteen
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: of us have gathered back from our squatching for the night.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: It's about three o'clock in the morning, and we're just
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: resting up a little bit before we go back down
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: the hill, go across the streams and get into our
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: truck and drive to our true base camp. So we're
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: just sitting there, sitting on some tables, some rocking chairs,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: just kind of gazing into the woods in kind of
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: a long line of people, all for some reason facing
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: the woods interestingly enough, and all of a sudden, I
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: hear somebody say in a whisper, look at that. And
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: then I look over to where I heard that say,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: and I see somebody whispering and pointing into that patch
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: of woods at the deer trail. And then somebody next
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: and says, look at that. And then somebody on the
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: other side and they said, look at that. What are
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: you guys seeing? Some paces just just look into the woods,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: and I look into the woods, and anywhere from about
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: a foot and a half up from the ground to
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: about three three and a half feet up the ground.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: You'd stare at a tree and all of a sudden
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: you'd see a little you'd see a head pop out.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: Well you wouldn't, you could see barely see the outline
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: of the head, but you'd see a red eye, eye
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: glow pop out one side, who pop back in, pop
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: pop out the other side, just going back and forth
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: like that, and then suddenly it was gone, and you'd
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: see this. This was going on within like a fifty
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: yard swath of forest in front of us, and as
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: good as we could count, twenty twenty five peepers peeping
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: their heads in and out behind trees, and all fifteen
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: of us watched this for about twenty to thirty minutes.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: Twenty five minutes. These things just kept popping their head
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: back and forth, but they.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: Were all low to the ground.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: We never saw a big massive thing step out from
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: behind a tree or peep its head out from behind
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: a tree with big red eyes. They were all small
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: and low to the ground. And then the show stopped.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: So we went back to base camp next morning, woke
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: up stiff as all get out. I was the oldest
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: in the group. But we were, you know, mid aged,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: and our intense desire to climb back up that mountain
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: to find that X quickly went out of our bodies
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: when we felt them the next morning. So when we
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: how we were yeah from climbing, yes, yeah, we were
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: just stiff and sore and too out of shape to
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: do it back to back is what it boiled down to.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: So this one guy we were we debriefed in the morning.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: You debrief in the morning, and this one guy was
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: fresh out of the military deer hunter in incredible shape.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: He says, I'm going up there to check it out.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: So we gave him directions to go up there and
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: check it out.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: He found the X.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: And I'll be damned if in the middle of the
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: path with the fire road he finds an adult print,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: big footprint.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: He rushes.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: He rushes back down to our our true base camp.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: Found a print, found a print, took, took one of
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: the best footprint casters in our organization up with him
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: with a casting kit, went up and poured a cast
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: for this adult print. As they're waiting for the cast
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: to cure, they start looking elsewhere in that general area
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: and for the when we were trying to debunk at
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: or figure out what was going on, that landslide sound
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: was coming from above us down on us. So we
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: kept we kept looking up. We never thought to look
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: on the drop off side of the fire road. But
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: while they were waiting for the cast to cure, they
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: noticed a bark tear fifteen feet up a tree, fresh
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: bark tear fifteen feet up a tree on the drop
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: off of the fire road. And when they walked over
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: to that bark tear, they found a partial adult print
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: on the you know, the precipice of that.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Beside the tree, right where it goes over.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: And when they so they looked down over the drop
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: off and it was about a ten foot straight drop down.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: But then a ledge plateaued out after that ten foot
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: drop off, a cliff a ledge, and that ledge was
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: all muddied up from the rain draining down the mountain.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: And they as best as they could count, they counted
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: about thirty to thirty five to forty infantile, infant and
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: juvenile big footprints.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: On that ledge. So you probably spooked a bunch coming
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: down the mountain or something.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: You know. The fantasy is that we just you know,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: these things watching us, tracking us. We didn't hear them,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: you know, they were aware of us the whole time
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: we were up there. But when George stopped and pivoted
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: on his leg and back to me, I think we
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: accidentally stopped next to a nursery or a playground or
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: something like that on that ledge. And I think we
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: were bluff charged, and that landslide, that what we thought
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: was a landslide was one or more likely more at
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: least two. I think Bigfoot's bluff charging us, trying to
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: scare us off.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: Damn, dude, that's a good way to all right, dude, Okay, incredible,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: all right. It's like it's one of those things where
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: I have to take a little time to chill about,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: especially with the orbs and them seeing it and them
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: calling you again and twice, and the great casting of
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: the That's an interesting, very interesting. That's like a that's
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: a that's a that's a B plus encounter. My my opinion,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: if I'm gonna I'll make my own categorization without my
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: own uh, my own organization, and go ahead. Oh I was,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: I was good. I was gonna say, uh, you know,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: if you have anything to add to it, please, I
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: was gonna ask you the next question please.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Actually it's before I told that story. I alluded to
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: how sometimes I feel like I got a multiple, multiple personality,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: and that's a that story is a good representation because
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: as an experiencer, I have no.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: Doubt that we were bluff charged. I have no doubt
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: that we were bluff charged.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: As a scientist who wants to crunch some numbers and
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: some data, I think we've got a hard high correlation
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: there between all those events. But as a scientist, I'm not.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: It's kind of iffy to say that was definitely a
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: bluff charge. You know.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: It lends itself perfectly to my next question actually, which
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: you said, right, So, like, okay, so being a scientist,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: knowing other scientists and trying to unlock whatever this is
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: that we're running into the forest as humans, what would
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: what do you think would be the best way of
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: going about that? This goes into academia in which things
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: are taking a little more serious. Is what would you
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: what would be like maybe the road map or the
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: way in which we could make this a little more
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: palable for you know, they for the people in the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: universities like Ivy League or whatever it may be the
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: vague science. Yeah, like what would be you know, because
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: we had like you know, it was continental drift that
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: wasn't even like accepted until you know, maybe a hundred
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: years or whatever long it's been, you know, like oh,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: what's your blah blah blah, and then or the impact
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: on Yucatan Peninsula. To bring it back here that you know,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: they started doing core samples and they finally figured out
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: all we're I mean, you know, one hundred feet down
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: this this molten like you know, like glass material. All wow.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: You know, so what would be the process into bringing
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: this into academia and which is taken, say at least
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: seriously enough to have more rigorous scientific exploration.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: So you know, I'm biased in this regard of course,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: but the language of science is math, and I think
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: we need to push I think we need to push
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: our research into studies that result in numeric data that
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: can then be statistically analyzed and present it in a
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: scientific fashion. We already know from the Patterson Gimlin film
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: that science has rejected moving images a bigfoot. Science has
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: rejected still images a bigfoot. Science has rejected pictures of
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: Patty's footprints. Science has rejected casts of Patty's footprints. Science
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: has rejected, you know, to guys providing testimony of what
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: they saw live. So we and all those things are
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: forms of observational science, and observational science in the beginning
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: and developing stages of a species is a good thing,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: you know, John Muir, the Autobahn Society.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: But what are they there?
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Naturalists and their scientific contribution is they discovered unknown species
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: and drew pictures of them and cataloged them at the
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: risk of soundel like a conspiracy theorist. The bar is
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: raised higher for Bigfoot than it is for us. For
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: other species. Pictures have already been rejected, and some pretty
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: darn good pictures. And so that type of evidence, as
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: much as that is the evidence that ninety five percent
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: of the people are out there doing still, we already
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: know that from a scientific perspective, that evidence isn't going
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: to be sufficient. So that's part of what motivated me
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: to write my book and why I saw your kind
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: of expression of surprise or shock when I said in
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: the second half of my book, I teach research design
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: and statistics, because that's how we get from a wood
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: knock to a numeric database to a statistical analysis to
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: show that it's bigfoots doing the wood knocks. And I
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: think until we can reduce our data down to numbers
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: and do analysis with those numbers, I think we're just
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: going to continue to spin our wheels with the observational
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: science and being rejected by the larger scientific community.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So basically like like some type of like central
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: database in which there could be you know, geolocations where
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: this is here, this is there, there's multiple different researchers
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: you know, get it and or bad, which you can
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: kind of then like take data and bounce it off
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: each other to get to some type of baseline in which,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: you know, something could be taken. Seriously that when you
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: were talking about the pictures being rejected, it brought up
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: the Ivory built woodpecker that they were finding that they're
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: possibly still finding in the swamps of I think Mississippi,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: I think on the on the on the delta, like
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: not the delta, but the but the swamp areas around
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: the Mississippi and they just found like one picture they
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: just that's very you know, a video where with a
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: still shot of it with a certain back of it,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: and they can then go Okay, here it is and
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: the sound of the wings fluttering. Oh, that's very reminiscent
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: of this and that and the other. But yet at
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: the same time, because I had I've had in K
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: Davis on he's actually I would consider a friend of mine.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: By at this point where he showed the braiding of
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: the hair in the front of the Patterson Bigfoot, you know,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: the Patterson goin film, And I didn't even know that existed,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: and it blew me away. And that's still not enough.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: And I asked researchers and people who experiencers are like,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: what they think the reason is for the rejection. It's
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: probably because they already know they exist. Uh So the
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: conspiracial time you're you're you know, lending yourself to what
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: I feel as well, so I'm a bit biased on
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: it as well. Is that if they do that, then
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: we have to have this acceptance of Okay, there's a
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: there's another human humanoid species in the forest, which will
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: freak a lot of people out. It would really affect
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: the tourism industry, It would affect the logging industry, and
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: it would you know, there would be like, you know,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: you can't even go into the forest anymore because you
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: would be then you know, intervening in their in their
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: in their lives or whatever would be, and it would
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: be kind of catastrophic to you know, the hunting industry,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: you know real tree and you know best pro shops
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: and all that involved. So it's it's kind of money
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: at the same time, as well as some type of
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: fear factory. I think. Yeah, uh, I think mineral rights
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: natural gas as well. Perfectly perfectly said yeah, yeah, So
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: what's next? What's next for you, mister Baron Jack?
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: What's next for me? Like I said, I got kind
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: of a I don't know, I don't know what to
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: call it. I'm going to just call it a sasquatch
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: camp out where I'm gonna be one of six or
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: seven speakers and then we're going to do some some
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: squatching at night. That's going to be up in uh,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: outside of Copper Hill, Tennessee, on the Koe at thunder
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Rock Campground, and that is about a month.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: Away, in the middle of June.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't think much about commercial advertising, but
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: about in the middle of the month, I think there
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: are still some campsites available.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: I you know, I think.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: I think, well, I don't know if I mentioned that
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: that I'm sick, but I've I've got cancer with that
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: has potentially limited my lifespan.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: So h.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: On my bucket list is seeing a Bigfoot.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: Harley Owens is the guy you want to go and
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: meet up with?
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: Then?
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: Because so.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: In July, in June, July, Yeah, in July, I'm going
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: out to Washington State and I there's a a new
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: doctorment doctor documentary coming out called Sasquatch Legend, Meet Science Too,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: and uh, looking at the scientific evidence for Bigfoot. And
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: I did a little psychological consulting in teaching people some
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: relaxation techniques to then be hypnotized later on for the film.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: And I met one of the guys that underwent hypnosis
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: for the film. He lives out in the Boonies in
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: Washington State and has had set quite a few Class
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: A encounters, including a highbred juvenile handling handing him. I
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: think it was a huckleberry or some kind of barry,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: So they were very close to each other for that
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: to happen. And he's just having a little private get together.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: So that'll be neck to expedition in July, and then
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: from there, I don't know, I don't know where we
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: go from there.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: Well, John, first of all, I wish you all the best.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not a religious person myself. I am a man
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: of God. I have my own personal connection, my own
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: thing that I've experience, and it's spoken to me through
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: its way, and so I wish the very best for you,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: my friend. Thank you, and and I really appreciate you.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: Know that, with hopefully not the little time you have left,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: I wish you well. I wish you prosperous. I wish
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: for you and your family to do well. And I
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: thank you very much for coming and joining me this evening,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: uh and have this discussion. I appreciate it. Thank you
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: very much. I've enjoyed it a lot, all right, keep
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: appreciate absolutely. I appreciate you too as well. So it
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: turned out pretty good, man, I told you so. All right,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: So to stay in the green room for a second, buddy,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do my a little out there real quick.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: So remember, guys, go support John's work. Go and get
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: his book, Grasping Scott Grasping Sasquatch. Links will be in
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: the description below, and give him a little bit of hand.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: And let's let's hear some more from him and see
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: what's going on in the future. Remember we are the I,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: we are aware. Love you all, m m mant