Latest / Really Renée / Ep. 14 - Construction Fluency

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Ep. 14 - Construction Fluency · Really Renée

• RR EP 14 Construction Fluency: All right, so here today to talk about construction fluency. This week has just been crazy. So we as a team have been stressed, working our tail off. there's a lot of reasons why I could like go into it's been like a crazy week. but one of the things that I had on the docket to talk about and discuss was construction fluency. And I want to talk about why construction fluency saved my Literal ass this week and kept a project on the table. So let's dive in. We're dreamers. Don't care what other people say, we're dreaders. My name is Santha Struck. I'm the host of Really Renee. This podcast is designed to be a place for interior designers and industry adjacent people that are curious about business, how our studio has gotten to seven figures, and the steps that we took to get there. So One of the things that I really just want to dive into a little bit more, and we kind of touched on it in our previous episode. It was episode nine, I think, with Sarah, where we talk about how our business is a little bit different than other design businesses and frustrations around the industry and frustrations that interior designers are feeling at large right now, mainly being this idea of construction fluency. So I think before we get into kind of what what construction fluency does for our businesses, how it affects us, things like that, we gotta like spend a second defining it. So I would say construction fluency is the ability to walk confidently around a job site and be able to identify HVAC framing, plumbing rough ins, electrical rough ins, electrical planning. being able to identify whether rough ins are correct or accurate inside of the framing, cabinetry install sequencing, meaning knowing that blocking exists behind the drywall and the importance of that, and then millwork and trim integration, things like that. So when we talk about construction fluency, we're not talking about soft goods at all. We're not talking about furniture integration. we're not really talking about decorating. We're talking about the actual nuts and bolts, things that it takes to take a project from start to finish in terms of construction. So number one, right off the bat, I would say if you are somebody that is a decorator and you're more in the soft goods side, you know, more like art, soft goods and finishes, window treatments, paint con consults, color consults, things like that, I would throw you more in the decorator. Category that gets super muddy. And I think that's probably one of the main frustration points of the industry is that our designation gets muddled. but those of us that are designers that are confident in the construction side, that are fluent in the construction methodologies of how things get built, I think that is a distinguishing kind of point, is we can walk on a job site and do it confidently. So I would say I have a unique background. I grew up with a TIG welder as a dad and I read blueprints and I kind of had a little bit more of trade experience in the sense that I had exposure to people that worked in the trades and understood the importance of drawings, things like that, while also admitting fully, I went to a four-year college for Interior design, graduated from that. And the very first time I stepped into a job site, felt completely overwhelmed and intimidated, was like, what the fuck am I doing here? I don't know how to answer anything. So I felt very under equipped to walk a job site confidently and know the correct terminology and whatnot. So I think that that's normal. if you're new and starting out and you're like, I couldn't walk around a job site confidently. That's totally fine. And I think that's that's normal when you're starting out. But when we talk about getting to a certain level of expertise or tier of the market and the expectations around how to serve that market, I think construction fluency is kind of like a main, main pinnacle service of what we do. So and what kind of designers in that market need to do. So our industry in general is kind of known for like designing shit that can't be built. So the worst thing that you can do as a designer is come up with what are referred to as just like froofy pretty drawings that do not think through how things are actually being put together. So oftentimes that looks like custom millwork packages or like, you know, systems this book. Bookcase behind me, where if you were to look at it, it's all fixed shelving, but there's no exposed bracketing. So the question becomes, how do you put it together? How do you make it stable? Are we biscuit joining it? How, are what are we doing? So you know, want a floating sink? Do you know what kind of bracketing needs to be in the wall, that kind of stuff. So I definitely think the industry needs to rise to the challenge of being fully construction fluent. I I really dislike when we've got scenarios where designers are not being taken seriously and they're not being taken seriously because they're lacking specific construction knowledge that kind of really solidifies that they know what they're talking about and how to do it. So I think Where we have advanced in our situation is like when I'm selling to a project, especially on a full service client that's new construction, I typically am talking to the wife. This is super stereotypical. And I know it's probably like gender bias, but typically those conversations look like, you know, a wife is reaching out to us because she wants help with materials. but we are given a plan set, an architectural plan set that is supremely lacking in construction detailing. It's a permit set, it's got standard cabinetry thrown in there. It doesn't have an RCP, or maybe it does, but it's like basic and builder grade. and so there's like a huge gap in what we're needing to do and how it's going to get to the finish line. So in order to sell those services, because typically, in my experience, the wife cares very little about the drawing details. and I won't say that's like every single project, but I will say it's most of the time. And so we've got women that typically are more situated on like the aesthetic side. They're here to buy into our services because of the aesthetic, but our services are really expensive based on the construction side. So and the construction detailing and integration. So how do we sell those services to a partner or a husband who typically is not bought into that or doesn't think that they quote, need it, right? So what I typically do in that sales pitch is like have the couple come in, sit down, bring their plans, and right off the bat I'll do a light architectural review where I'll be like, do you know where you're HVAC's going? Where's the mechanical room? How are we getting ducting from this floor to this floor? we don't have any plans for that. So are you okay with soffits being in the house? No? well, you might want to consider that. And then those are the conversations that convert the men into believers is when you can look at a plan set and you can say, Okay, yeah, I see that you're missing this, this, and this from the construction side. And by not addressing these things right now, it's gonna affect the outcome. It might be really ugly and it could cost you more. So maybe we just address it now. So that's how construction fluency affects kind of the sales pitch and the sales side of it and getting clients to enlist in it. Literally just last week, we were walking a job site and we were doing rough ins. And this was a project that we were brought late in like they were already at framing. And The general contractor, love him, great, great, great guy. he doesn't really slow down to like process or give time for us to catch up on the drawing end of it. And so some of it is instead of it's being proactive work, it's reactive work, which kind of sucks for us because we're kind of essentially chasing what's happening in the field and then trying to make sure that our drawings accurately reflect that. but Because we are a team that is pretty construction fluent and I consider us able to adapt to those things and aware of kind of the the life of a construction project when you're in this kind of hyper vigilant fire mode. we were able to walk a job site at Rough N and be like, I think we wanted a hand shower in this shower. I think our drawings have a hand shower, but this Specific roughin valve is lacking the ability to be kind of tied into a hand shower. So we're missing something here. so I went back to the clients and I was like, Are you sure that you don't want a hand shower or you do want a hand shower? Because what's in your roughin right now is not that. It's just a shower head and that's it. And they were like, No, we definitely want a hand shower in there. And I was like, All right, well, we'll make sure we get that added. so those are ways that we like keep clients on the table is that we are able to walk a site and be able to have that conversation. An another great example. Literally this week we had on a different project, we've got an electrician that is, I would say stubborn. And I'm sure we have all encountered this and it's really fun. But we wanted to place sconces over the sink in the kitchen. And there's a window. and of course, above said window is a header. And so the gen or the electrician is like, No, we can't do that. There's a header there. We can't put we can't put a J box there. And I was like, That's so weird, we do that all the time. And he's like, No, no, we can't. We can't do that. And I was like Called a pancake box. We do it all the time. They're half inch thick. They can go on the side of a header. You can do it. And he was like, mm-mm. And the client was like, I don't think we can do that. We're gonna need to switch dependants. And I was like, No, literally, you can do it. And I pulled up the website, you know, I pulled a link, I pulled a picture, sent it to them, and was like, This is the plan. This is what we're doing. Again, if I wasn't construction fluent and didn't have an enough. have enough awareness about that, I we would be switching to a different life fixture. And so I think it's important to like know when you can push. A lot of times your subs, whether they're electricians, whether they're HVAC, whether they're plumbers, those are my favorite three, the trifecta, they love to like take the path of least resistance most of the time. They don't want to spend the time and effort to do things that are harder or more complicated. And they usually are set in their ways. And so I love them all dearly. I bring them beer. I will bring them pizza. I'll offer to give them like hugs or group therapy if we have a really complicated package. I really do have a great relationship with our subs and our tradespeople. And we love just teasing them and being in a good partnership because they do know that we know our shit and that we don't try to make their lives complicated, but that we do we all want the a project that's beautiful at the end. So all that to say, yeah, I I think that if we didn't have an awareness over that, some of that stuff would totally get side railed and we wouldn't be able to really truly advocate for our design for what we want for what the client wants because their opinions will read as expert above ours because they the perception is that they know their trade more than we do and it's and they do they do know their trade more than we do but they also are strongly opinionated and want to do things based on sometimes what's easy. And so I think that's why we're so I am so particular about making sure me and my team all feel confident walking a job site and being able to push back when you need to. I think it's important. Hey, so if you're finding this content helpful or informative, I would so appreciate if you could consider subscribing to us and leaving a comment or a review just so that we can reach more people, reach more designers, and help elevate the design community. Thanks for tuning in. I like walked an electrical meeting last week and another like funny thing that came to mind was we've got plugs and switches in a kitchen and they're like all over the freaking wall. Like what feels excessive beyond code, because we've got switches, we've got plugs, and so the plugs are being laid out by code and then the switches are being laid out separate from that. And it just look like you might as well just like Have a landing strip of shit everywhere. So, it's me, two electricians, two people from the general contracting team, and two people representing clients. So seven people in a group. And I'm in that meeting, I'm I am just representing the design side myself. And I was like, Guys, is there a way to reduce the number of plugs and switches we've got going on here? because these are really too much. And the client was like, Yeah, I was thinking that it looked like a lot because it's like, you know, one every foot pretty much. And I'm like, Yeah, I think that there's a way we can consolidate this. And got a little pushback. Like, I don't know. I think by code we need them here and here. Well, can't you put a switch next to a plug? Let's gang those together visually. Let's try to, simplify things. yeah, we could do that. Okay. So again, you have to be able to have that conversation. Otherwise, we literally would have had in a small L-shaped kitchen, like twelve different visual points right there. Like you're talking about a cutting board once every foot that you're trying to cover up a switch with or cover up a plug with. So, I think again, just from a from a industry elevated perspective, those construction fluency conversations and being able to like look at shit and be like, this doesn't feel right, this doesn't look right, is huge. additionally, when we talk about like construction and understanding the importance of where you're at in framing in particular before drywall gets put in, And how it affects blocking, how it affects hanging mirrors, hanging wall hooks, hanging cabinetry, floating shelves, all of that. essentially all of that has to be designed and approved before it gets covered so that you can have the reinforced, the reinforced blocking behind it. I think, like I said, it's always just mind-boggling to me that it's like, you know, seven people in a room and it's the designer that's saying like, Hey, we need to fix this. This isn't gonna look good. So I think that highlights like the importance of doing your due diligence and knowing how to like represent yourself and your clients well in the field. Another great example, same project, actually. The HVAC consultant, this is a like a renovation of a hundred year old property. So it's like really complicated in terms of construction integration. Obviously, there's no like mechanical rooms, you're like retrofitting things. And that's always a tricky thing because everyone loves to just do HVAC soffits and you're just like, my God, please don't put this shit everywhere. like the number one way to like make a soffit look like a soffit is to make it look like a soffit. So we do our best to like hide things as much as possible to the degree that like I will float all an entire ceiling down if I think it's gonna look like shit to have a giant soffit block. So We were talking about soffits and needing to hide plumbing and to things like that. And you just have to be able to ask the question, what's the minimum duck sides that we can do? Can we turn the duck this way? Can we like what can can we run it tight against the wall? Okay. And then what's the slope of the plumbing drain that we need to get in there? And how far dropped from this side of the wall to this side of the wall is it gonna be? Cause we're gonna have to build that out. So how far does that truly drop down our ceiling then? And okay, if we're gonna do that. Where are we going to drop it down? From what point to what point? And so all of those things are things that if you are a designer that doesn't feel comfortable being able to think through those things, I do think it will be harder in the long run to get into kind of that top tier the market. and I think that it it it just doesn't help the project and the and the process, because I think our job isn't to just pick out materials. It is to pick out materials, but also make sure that those materials and what you're wanting is achievable. And so to put that work back on the general contractor feels I don't know, it just doesn't feel good. So we like our contractors to feel like they're a part of our project, that they know we have considered what they have to do and that we are making their jobs easier by thinking through a lot of those details first. So things like that. another great example of this is like if you love that look of like flush tile in a bathroom for a shower wall, you have to know that up front. That does that detail has to be designed while you're framing because that's going affect whether or not you can float drywall next to tile and it'll abut or for example flooring right you have to look at the thicknesses of tile that butts into a wood floor all of that has to be decided at framing so there's a huge amount of work that I think if you can really learn that part of it and really hone in on it. It changes how a client perceives you. It changes your level of professionalism. It increases a client's confidence in you. and it just like kind of keeps you in a position on the chessboard to be more net needed in a job site, right? So I think all those things are super important. we've, you know, we've been struggling with a project of ours where We just really haven't felt like it was like a huge learning lesson for me actually, because I've been doing this now for 10 years. this is a pretty big project. we love the clients, but somewhere along the way, we did not educate them well on what exactly it was that we deliver and what we do. We got through material selections, approvals. And construction documentation. So we did all the elevations and the elevations are drawn based on the actual material selections. And the clients literally said to me, Well, we thought that those mood boards and what we saw were actually inspiration, and we didn't know that our approval meant approval of that specific material. And I really had to sit with that for a minute because I was like, How did I how did I miss the mark to where they didn't know that this was like, You are signing off on this tile. Here's the sample. Look at it. Do you like it? Yes. Okay, great. This is what we're doing then. So, I I think that, if I as somebody that's this construction fluent and like pretty much I would consider myself an expert in the field of walking around a job site and knowing what's happening. if I can have clients that like look at our work and our process and still think that those are not like solid details and selections, I think that that like that's That's crazy. And so yeah, I literally like my I think my face at that moment when I heard the client say it was just like like I don't hide my cards very well. So my face, good thing it was a phone call, honestly, because I think if they were here in office, I would have been like, what the fuck? I literally scooted back my chair and put my head on my desk because I was just like, How did I miss this so bad that they thought they were paying all of this money, tens of thousands of dollars in design fees for inspiration boards. so that's a moment that I will like mark in my calendar for this year as a learning lesson and something that I like will like sit sit with and just kind of like process how we can elevate our prog our process and help educate clients better. So it was a learning lesson for me, honestly. was a bit diff deflating to be honest. But that's okay. We all have those moments. So I think the the way that we were able to like circle back and kind of get client control, because in this scenario the clients were really they were really hyper focused on like micromanaging our time and like questioning our hours. And it's like, well no shit, you questioned our hours. You thought we just spent like 200 hours Picking out inspiration instead of an actual material. I was like, I cannot believe that this is like I I but I literally instead of being like insulted, I took a step back and was like, okay, I really failed this client in some way with my communication. So like, what can I do differently? So, Yeah, I'm still I'm still thinking about it clearly because I I had a moment this week I woke up at four o'clock in the morning because I was just like thinking about this client, couldn't sleep, frustrated. but once we explained, like, no, there's an entire spec list of specific materials. And I showed them the spec list and I like went that went over it with them and we explained that the drawings are relative to the actual selections. They were like, Wow, that's so much more work than we thought you were doing. And okay, yeah, we get it. Like we see why now. And so I even had the general contractor sit in that meeting because I was like, they need to hear why it is that this integration is important. And so he sat in and he was very gracious and explained like the process and why construction documents are important and blah, blah, blah. But Yeah, I just again, I it all comes back to construction fluency, being able to confidently explain the decisions that need to happen and why it is that you're the right person to do it. if you don't do that, for example, one of the things that comes to mind is like a schluter edge. if you're doing schluter edge in your projects, please stop. it doesn't look good. And it is what every tile installer loves to install. The same with quarter round. please don't use that. It's called contractor cover up for a reason. It looks like shit. So our clients deserve better. We deserve better in the industry. And honestly, I just wanna be sure. That I am always thinking through the design in a way that I'm not in a job site literally deciding how am I going to edge this tile right now? Because even on a lower budget project, even on a client that has less money, proactive planning and construction fluency is the thing that helps the design look even more intentional. So, you know, it takes it from a schluter edge to a bullnose trim tile piece and how do we source that? What do we need? How do we do it? how is it abutting? And I think I think it behooves all designers to to try their best to avoid the like the the design and time saving maneuvers that general contractors and other installers fall back on to make their lives easy. So Even on a lower mid level budget, you should be able to use a quarter round or bolt nose tile piece instead of a Schluter edge. So you know, we have a project right now where we fought the general contractor on whether or not to float the floor under the cabinetry in the kitchen versus putting the cabinetry directly on the subfloor. Our team is very pro run the floor under it. he was very much against it. He won that battle with the clients. installed finished panels on the island and then asked us for quarter round that goes with the cabinetry so you could run the flooring into it. To which I was like, no. No. If you want to be able to abut that product right to it like you thought you could do, then you better sure that's dead ass right. And you're not going to rely on a quarter round to do that in this kitchen because it's, a kitchen that's, you know, $150,000 and We're not putting quarter round in this kitchen to make it look finished. That's not happening. So yeah, we we ruffle feathers, we like have those conversations. But again, it comes from a place of construction fluency and confidence. So you don't need to be a GC, you don't need to be a tile installer, you don't need to be an electrician, but you do need to know how to ask the right questions. To engage with people humbly, have them think about things with a different perspective. and then I also think in terms of construction fluency, a huge point is scheduling, knowing what a Gantt chart is, knowing what the typical flow is of construction, understanding how different trades will need their packages delivered based on that schedule. That's all super critical and important. So if that's not stuff you're familiar with, I highly recommend that you spend some time getting some additional knowledge in that. ask people, be willing to tell a general contractor or a sub, hey, I want to know more about your trade and how I as a designer can work better with you. Can you please educate me on this? Or can you help me? Right. So another another great one, right? Is like wall-mounted faucets. They cost more to install. Nobody likes to talk about this. We pick the faucet out and we're just yes, wall mounted. the labor to install that in the wall for the rough in is double, maybe triple in your area. I'm not really sure. But those are things that because we are construction fluent, we know that. We know the ramifications of our design decisions. So, and we know those both from the construction side and from the budgetary side. So If that's not stuff that you're like working on or within, I highly recommend you do that because that will help move you forward in your business. It will help you become more profitable, essential. it will help you be more desired and it will help you just gain confidence as a designer because you're like, your shit and you can walk around and you can say your stuff on a site. So if you have any questions about this, this is such a passionate conversation for me because I think. I think that this part of the industry is lacking a little bit, frankly. and I don't mean that from a judgment standpoint. I really desire for the industry to have construction fluency and confidence. And so if you've got more questions about this, you're curious about it, you want to know more more things, like send me a DM, drop me a comment, let me know what it is that you're interested in hearing. Maybe I'll do an episode on it. Tell me your worst. horror stories of being on a job site. tell me how you navigated it. I want to hear all the things. Like just let's let's like create a table where we can sit down and all kind of just talk about the frustrations around the job site. So thank you so much for tuning in. If this episode resonates with you or if you find it helpful, can you please do me a favor and like, share, subscribe or comment. I'm personally just Doing this podcast as a passion project because I think conversations like this should happen in the industry. And I wish as a designer, more people would be talking openly. So if you agree, please share it. Share this message. It's like the easiest way that you can help this little thing grow. So thanks for tuning in. We're dreamers. Don't care what other people say, we live it like this would be a final day. We're dreamers.