Latest / She Speaks Life - Christian Women, Strengthen Your Faith, Bible Study, Grow Spiritually In Christ / Breaking the Narcissist’s Grip: Biblical Wisdom for Toxic Relationships With Kris Reece

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Breaking the Narcissist’s Grip: Biblical Wisdom for Toxic Relationships With Kris Reece · She Speaks Life - Christian Women, Strengthen Your Faith, Bible Study, Grow Spiritually In Christ

0:00
Hey there, welcome back to She Speaks Life.
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I hope you are enjoying this month leading up to Christmas.
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We are wrapping up this year with episodes to finish off 2025
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with a bang. You'll see some back-to-back
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episodes in the next few weeks as we come to the end of this
0:19
season. You know, God is already at work
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for She Speaks Life in 2026 and I'm so looking forward to all of
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it to unfold for the next year for you guys.
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OK, today I have with me Chris Reese.
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She is a Christian author and coaches people involved with
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difficult relationships. She teaches how to recognize
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manipulation, set boundaries that stick, and walk in
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emotional and spiritual strength without compromising your values
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or your voice. Her new book called Breaking the
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Narcissist Physicist Grip gives believers the tools to stop
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saying yes when they mean no and finally walk in freedom.
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This was such a great conversation on how to really
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navigate biblically when faced with challenging relationships.
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So if you're ready, I'm ready. Here's my guest, Chris Breeze.
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Hi Chris, welcome to SHE Speaks Life.
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I am so grateful you are on here today to share your message
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about your new book you released.
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Thank you, Jamie, I am so blessed to be here and so
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excited to dive into this conversation.
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Yes, we are going to talk about narcissism and you had written a
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book called Breaking the Narcissist Grip.
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And I think this is more common than we think.
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I think there's all people in our lives that we run into or
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have relationships with the narcissism behavior and we're
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going to dive into what is that you know, and, and how to
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navigate that. But basically you help believers
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break free from controlling relationships so they can
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reclaim the peace and identity and confidence that God has
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intended for them. And you offer biblical that
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bring clarity and peace to those that are involved in toxic
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relationships. And you have a successful
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YouTube and you share all kinds of things on how to navigate
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those relationships and really help others out figuring,
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figuring out what is going on, why, you know, am I the crazy
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one? And you really just make it wide
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and clear. And so before we dive into more
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about your book and your message, I always love to start
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off with the guest sharing. What is a scripture verse that
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you are enjoying right now? Maybe it's one that's resonating
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currently with you. It could be your life verse.
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What is that? Well, it's interesting that you
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ask that because I do have a verse that I want to share, but
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at the same time it actually comes back to more of a theme,
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and the theme is going to speak through the Scripture.
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So I'll share that with you. It's Psalm 37, seven.
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Be still before the Lord. Wait patiently for Him.
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Do not fret when people succeed in their ways when they carry
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out their wicked schemes. So this whole theme of my life,
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and it's been for a while, unfortunately, I have to
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confess, is this be still Exodus 1414, Isaiah 6022.
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It it just keeps popping up. This be still cause
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unfortunately, I'm more of a woman of action.
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I like to do things, fix things, make things happen.
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But I've learned the hard way that action outside of God's
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timing actually creates more problems than it solves.
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So true. So you know, we live in a time
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where we react instead of rest. We see stillness as weakness and
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waiting as wasted. But what I learned as I began to
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unpack this in the Hebrew, be still.
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DA mom means to be silent, to rest.
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And this one, this is where it caught me to stop striving and
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wait patiently. And here's where another one to
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wait patiently actually means to twist and to whirl and dance in
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anticipation. Wow.
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It's like mind blowing. So for me, patiently is just
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like, OK, Lord, please give me patience to like not lash out.
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No, I'm supposed to be whirling and dancing.
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And that is a far cry from the nail biting, justice begging
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kind of waiting that we tend to do as Christians.
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Because God's version of waiting isn't anxious.
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It's peaceful. It's not passive, it's trusting.
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And one of the things that I like to think of is that little
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girl who runs inside to tell her daddy about a problem.
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And he listens and he smiles and he says, I got this, sweetheart,
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you can go back outside and play.
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Yeah, That's what our father is saying to us.
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And that's what I hear in that constant message of Be still.
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Yeah, wow, that's encouraging. So, so good.
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And we all need to hear that. And wow, that's, that's a good
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insight there that I didn't even realize.
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So thank you for sharing with that.
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So let's just begin with narcissism.
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Where did it show up in your life?
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Can you just give a brief story of why this topic and you know
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basically why this book? Absolutely.
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So I've two different sides. 1 is when it showed up in my life
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and 2 is when I realized it showed up in my life.
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So it's been in my life for as long as I can remember.
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A lot of friends that I attracted, young men that I
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dated and that I married. It showed up a long time ago,
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but I didn't realize it until about 15 years ago.
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It was several years after my divorce, and I was just kind of
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beside myself, like what happened here?
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How did I end up in this situation?
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And I had a very dear friend of mine talk to me about
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sociopaths, and she introduced me to this book on sociopaths.
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And I started reading it and a lot of light bulbs started going
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off. But there were some other areas
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that I'm like, no, that doesn't quite fit.
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And that's what started on this journey as I began to understand
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narcissism. And at the time I was actually
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in a in private counseling. So I did private counseling
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sessions. And a lot of women that came to
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me, they came back to the same common theme.
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Now, Jamie, it didn't matter whether they were thirteen years
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old or they were 83 years old, whatever situation they came to
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me with, whether they were struggling in their faith, they
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had, you know, negative thinking or they just wanted to find
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their purpose in life. Every time we began to unpack
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something, it all came down down to the same common theme.
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And this blew my mind. They all had toxic mothers and I
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was a little beside myself because, well, my mother's not
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perfect, she's not toxic. So I wasn't familiar with this.
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So I started to do a little bit more research and I dove into
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the areas of personality disorders, borderline histrionic
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narcissism. And that just LED into this
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whole intriguing study. And I was just so fascinated.
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So kind of Fast forward, I'm still teaching on faith and all
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of these things and, and God has me talking more on these toxic
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issues. And I remember getting into
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prayer one time and I said, Lord, don't send me, I don't
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want to do this. I, I can't do this.
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No, I'm not your girl. Long story short, clearly I was.
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Yeah, I started to surrender. And that's when the floodgates
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started to open. People were coming out of the
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woodwork in terms of what about my husband?
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But what if it's my spouse? What if it's my wife?
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What if it's my daughter? And that's when really it
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started to unfold. And I wanted to understand not
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only just narcissism because there is a flood of information
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that you can find regarding narcissism and how to quote
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handle them, but I really wanted to look at this and say, God,
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what do you say about this? Yeah.
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Is this something that you even define?
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Is this something that you would even suggest and have thoughts
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on how to handle and how to navigate?
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And am I even close to it? So that's what began that
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journey. Yeah, yeah, so good.
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I know there's nothing else like that both there when I your name
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came across and I'm watching your successful YouTube channel
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and it was just a plethora of not just information, but
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biblical wisdom to apply to the situation that whatever topic
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you are sharing for that day. And, and it was just such a
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refreshing just way of delivering the, the, I guess the
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navigation process than somebody who just leaves out the word of
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God or leaves out biblical principles, 'cause we really
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want to apply that first as believers, as, you know, faith
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filled women of the Lord. And so let's just begin with
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maybe somebody's listening and they're like, you know, what is
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narcissism? So let's dive into recognizing
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what are the narcissism traits? What what are some of the
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different traits? What does it look like so that
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somebody can understand really what we're talking about when we
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say narcissism? Yeah.
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So you have your your basic level traits, but first I want
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to help help your listener understand that there's going to
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be what we're referred to as a spectrum.
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There could be extreme in those traits and there could be mild
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in those traits. But now when we start to step
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back and we say and want to recognize the narcissists in our
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lives, there are some core features about them.
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Number one is the grandiosity. They think they are the cat's
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meow. They are the above all the in
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all the do all. Here's where it starts to get
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catchy is how they display that. And I'll talk about that in just
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a second if that's OK. So they do have a an inflated
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sense of self. They do have entitlement.
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So they believe that they are entitled and they are very
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wounded, shame filled people, but they counteract that with an
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arrogance that's meant to disguise and fool you into
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confidence. So now we've got those basic
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core traits, but now we've got different types of narcissism.
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So when we have those narcissists expressing those
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traits differently, a lot of times here's where people will
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get tripped up if they're not the loud, obnoxious, I'm the
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king of the mountain type of overt narcissist that we would
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look at and be like, OK, that's kind of obvious.
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Yeah, right. Then we're scratching our heads
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going Oh well maybe that's not it.
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Well, and what it does is it starts to create this cognitive
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dissonance, meaning that I've got 2 opposing thoughts fighting
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in my mind at the same time. Wait a minute.
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They seem entitled, but they're saying that they're a victim.
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Oh, something's not lining up. And that's where we start to get
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confused now. Hence how Satan operates.
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He's going to swoop in with lies.
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So he leaves you with that cognitive dissonance.
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Maybe I am the problem. So let let's kind of backtrack
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and, and go back to the different types of narcissists.
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So for example, the covert narcissist is the most insidious
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of all of them. Now you add a Christian covert
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narcissist, and I use that term very loosely because we can talk
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about that in a minute to see, to talk about whether that's
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even possible. But they're like the your
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classic wolf in sheep's clothing.
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So they're coming in. They know they're entitled, they
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know they're grandiose, they know they think that their stuff
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doesn't stink, but they're going to disguise this behind this
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wounded victim like mentality and their their goal is to now
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manipulate you, whereas the overt narcissist is just me,
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like I'm great, I'm wonderful. If you don't see it, then you're
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the problem. The covert doesn't want to
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appear that way. So they take a very wicked
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manipulative approach and trying to fool you into thinking that
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they are good people when in reality they're narcissism.
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So with that person, what you're going to see often is a very
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wounded victim like mentality. They are never responsible.
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They are always the victim. Somebody else always wronged
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them and they've been given the short straw at life and nobody
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seems to see their wonderfulness.
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Mm hmm, that is true. I have definitely seen that with
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people around me in my life. And you know, so how would you
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biblically handle that? Like, OK, now let's take, you
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know, we've identified there's some different traits of
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narcissism. What does God say about that?
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Great question. I love when you asked that.
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Yeah, so it all depends on the relationship.
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So if I am dealing with Timmy the bag boy at the grocery
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store, I'm going on a different check out line.
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Period. I'm not approaching Timmy.
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I don't care. Timmy, you're gonna have to
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learn the hard way in life. If we're now dealing with a
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friend, a family member and definitely a spouse, we want to
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apply the Matthew 18 principle. So now what we're going to look
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to do is, believe it or not, we've gotten to the point where
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we've, I hate to use the word labeled them, but we've we've
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given it a name. And if it's OK for me to talk on
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that for just a second, I'm not a huge fan of labels.
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I don't like going around calling somebody a narcissist.
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I don't label people narcissists.
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I can identify narcissistic traits, but sometimes it helps
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to have that, that language, that's what we're going to call
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it. It's called language.
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So I remember years ago, I was actually suffering from a pretty
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bad health issue and I went to a lot of traditional doctors and
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they were telling me, no, don't know what's wrong.
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No, you're fine. All your tests are coming back
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fine. And I'm like, I'm not fine.
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Something's not fine. So I kept persisting and I
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explored more holistic, more functional medicine doctors, and
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I finally got a diagnosis and I rejoiced like.
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This is great. Diagnosis was horrible, but it
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was a relief to actually have language for what's going on
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because now I understand how I can begin to approach this.
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And that's how I look at labeling narcissism sometimes.
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It's not that we want to just stick a label on somebody and
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put them in a box. It's just more, OK, I finally
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got some language for this crazy making stuff that's going on
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within my head. So now we've got the label,
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we've got the language. Now we want to actually step
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away from the label in the language and begin to dissect
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the traits. So how do I begin to manage
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this? Well, let's say the, the
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narcissist that you're with is highly manipulative, then you're
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going to want to approach them on that manipulation.
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Remember Matthew 18, we're supposed to go to this person,
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you know, share with them how they're affecting us.
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If they don't receive us now we bring in others.
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If that doesn't happen, we bring in the church.
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If that doesn't happen, we treat them as pagans, as tax
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collectors. So the first thing that you're
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going to want to do is step back from the narcissism label and,
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and say, what is the start with one trait?
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What is the one trait that I'm really struggling with?
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Well, I hate how manipulative this person is to me.
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I know you're lying. I know you're trying to get me
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to do something. I see it now.
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And that's what happens when the Holy Spirit removes our
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blinders. You can't Unsee it anymore.
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You're like, I know I'm being manipulated right now and you're
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going to want to begin to, to call that out.
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From a biblical perspective, we are called to speak the truth in
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love. Here's where we struggle the
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most. It's been 5-10, fifteen, 50
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years of this and we finally see it.
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The last thing that we have patience for is speaking the
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truth in love. It's more of AI, see what you're
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doing. You're not going to manipulate
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me anymore. You're a narcissist and we're
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not going to get anywhere with that.
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So what we do is we want to come to them with the ownership of I
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feel manipulated when you do this and name the actual
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activity. Don't even accuse them of
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manipulating. Just say I feel manipulated when
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you do this. And now what you're looking for
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is you're looking to see where that conversation goes.
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Because somebody that genuinely loves you and is making a
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mistake, they're going to want to rectify it.
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Oh my goodness, Jamie, I never meant to manipulate you.
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I am so sorry. Can you please tell me more
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because I don't ever want to do that again.
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See how I'm now approaching that with curiosity?
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That's what healthy people do. What you're usually going to
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get, especially if you're spot on with your language, is
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deflection, projection, blame shifting, victim mentality.
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So you're going to get more of the same.
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And now what's happening is they're showing you what you
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need to see. You're not dealing with someone
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who genuinely wants a relationship on a healthy level.
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And here's where most people end up going wrong is they stay in
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the fight. It's like, no, I'm going to get
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you to see it. If I can explain it just a
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little bit different, if I can explain it a little bit better,
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If I could just say it different, because that's what a
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lot of narcissists will say. Well, if you just said that a
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little differently, then I would have.
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First of all, it's not true. But secondly, now we think it's
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our responsibility to say it different to, to come across
19:37
different to, to have just the right timing.
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It's got to be on a Tuesday night where the stars are in the
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perfect place And, and they they're please are full.
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And no, that's nonsense. So what you're looking for is
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now you've done your part, you've been obedient.
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You're responsible for obedience, not outcome.
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Yeah. And here's where do I have
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permission to keep going because this is.
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I love it. Yeah.
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I'm absorbing like a sponge right now.
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Because one thing starts to lead to the next.
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So I, I gave it the language, I pulled it back.
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I, I zeroed in on the one trait. I brought that one trait to that
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person. Now I have to step into
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observation mode. Jamie, this is going to be the
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hardest for most people because a lot of times as Christians or
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as codependent Christians, we think it's our job to now step
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in and fix it, explain it, justify it, get this person to
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get it, whatever they need to do to get it.
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And that's not our job. That's the job of the Holy
20:45
Spirit. And if he hasn't been able to do
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it up until this point, what makes you think we can?
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So that's going to be the hardest part.
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I delivered this. I, I saw the reaction in the
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response, which I assure you, if you're really dealing with
20:59
narcissism, you're going to get met with any number of
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projection, deflection, gaslighting, blame shifting,
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victim mentality, all of those things.
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And you can might even actually get all of them inside of 5
21:14
minutes if you sit back and watch carefully enough.
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But the the main focus is to step back and observe.
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Don't absorb. Yes.
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And that's where most of us go wrong.
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We start, we we, we get anxious. I got to fix this.
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Now they're upset with me. Now they're slamming doors.
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Now they're giving me the silent treatment.
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Yeah, they might. Yeah, yeah.
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Guilt trip, you name it, You know, and I think that's so spot
21:46
on with that point where it's that release of control and just
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going God like it's it's you that handles the outcome like
21:59
you were saying. And because I think this falls
22:04
along, I was reading your chapter of codependency and that
22:10
was so wonderful just to break down what is codependency and
22:15
what that has to do with, you know, being in a toxic
22:19
relationship. But also you give this quiz in
22:21
the middle of the chapter 2, which was amazing.
22:25
And so I think with that codependency tell me if I'm
22:31
wrong, but that's where you really want to fix things,
22:36
right? Yeah, you are absolutely spot
22:38
on. Yeah, make them see it your way.
22:41
And I'm going to do what I can. And you know, I've fallen into
22:46
that category myself in my past. And you, you do everything to
22:53
try to fix it and you push all of you away.
22:57
You know, so your whole focus is getting this person better.
23:02
And it's the work of the Holy Spirit, like you said, it's the
23:05
work of the Lord. And so it's not our job.
23:10
It gets to that point where we just have to release that
23:12
control, which you also wrote an amazing chapter in your book
23:16
about that too. Oh.
23:18
Thank you you. Covered everything from A-Z on
23:21
this. It's so important because you
23:24
know, we go down that journey, you know, you ask like, how do
23:27
we handle this biblically? And at the end of all of it,
23:30
after we've handled it biblically, guess what?
23:32
We're left with God. Deal with me.
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Yes. What's going on inside of me?
23:38
Why do I feel the need to change this person?
23:41
Why am I not OK if they're slamming doors?
23:44
Why? Why can't I turn and focus on my
23:46
life if I'm getting the silent treatment?
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What's going on inside of me? Why am I apologizing when I've
23:53
done nothing wrong? Why am I now a a peacekeeper
23:57
instead of the peacemaker you've called me to be?
23:59
Why can't I be OK if they're not OK?
24:03
And that's the hardest part. Because if we truly are dealing
24:07
with codependency, we are dealing with a distorted sense
24:12
of self, where myself is only a reflection of what you think and
24:18
feel about me. So you see how now care starts
24:23
to become control. Because if you're OK with me,
24:27
then I'm OK with me. But if I bring something up to
24:31
you and you're toxic, well, guess what, You're not going to
24:34
be OK with me anymore. And if I'm not OK with that,
24:38
then I'm not OK anymore. You see how distorted that
24:41
starts to get? But now if you really, really
24:45
want the breakthrough, if you could just take that and start
24:48
to sit with the Lord in that and say, God, reveal to me anything
24:54
that you're looking to heal. I promise.
24:57
Oh my goodness, the breakthrough that will come is more than you
25:01
can possibly imagine. Because now it's not about them
25:04
anymore. Right.
25:06
Yep, exactly, 100% Wow. Yeah, I, I mean, you're just
25:12
shedding so much clarity on, you know, people's relationships
25:17
that I see around me and how that dynamic happens.
25:22
And you and mentioned in your book about trauma bond and I
25:26
thought that was so interesting. Could you explain what that is?
25:31
I thought that was very fascinating.
25:33
I've never heard of that. And that was really a great
25:37
chapter in your book. Thank you.
25:39
Yeah. So a trauma bond is where
25:42
there's this on again, off again, intermittent
25:47
reinforcement, meaning they could be cold and cruel one
25:52
time, but laughing and loving another time.
25:56
And you're just in a trauma bond if you're riding out the lows,
26:02
waiting for the highs instead of recognizing, OK, there might be
26:07
some highs here, but the lows are a problem.
26:12
So somebody in a trauma bond does not deal with the lows.
26:16
We don't talk about, hey, you know, I felt manipulated when
26:19
you said this or I felt used when you did this.
26:24
No, they'll, they'll actually just hopefully and, and believe
26:28
it or not, a lot of Christians will even pray like Lord, just
26:31
take that away and, and, and make him happy again today.
26:36
And, and they're riding out these lows in order to get to
26:40
the highs. So what happens is now we have
26:43
this, this emotional attachment. And again, it goes back to
26:47
codependency. If you're not OK, I'm not OK.
26:50
Oh, OK, it's good. Today.
26:52
It was a good day. If you find yourself saying
26:54
things like it was a good day, there might be a trauma bomb
26:58
that's taking place there because you're not able to now
27:00
separate because we talked about that a little bit at the top of
27:04
our time is that cognitive dissonance.
27:06
So we've got the highs, we've got the lows, and I'm not able
27:10
to deal with them independently. They're kind of getting mushed
27:13
together. And I'm getting confused by
27:15
this. So if you find yourself very
27:18
confused in a relationship where you're saying, yeah, he does
27:22
this or or she because not all narcissists are men, If, if, if,
27:28
if he does this. Yeah, but he does that.
27:32
Yeah, but he does this for me. Yeah.
27:34
But he's such a good provider. Yeah, but he plays with the kids
27:37
on Tuesdays. And.
27:38
And you're justifying it. We could be looking at a trauma
27:41
bond here where you're not able to have a healthy emotional
27:46
attachment or detachment to this person.
27:49
Here's where it actually starts to get worse.
27:52
When you have that trauma bond going on, when you have that
27:55
cognitive dissonance, your ability to hear from the Lord is
27:59
near impossible. Wow.
28:03
Because you're you're coming in and you're overriding it with
28:07
with rational thinking. Right.
28:10
Yes, your mind is getting in the way.
28:12
Yeah. Yeah, your logic and reasoning.
28:15
Wow. Yeah, and that's what breaks my
28:17
heart a lot. You know, I've counseled a lot
28:19
of women through this. So they're in the trauma bomb.
28:21
They've got the codependency. And I could see it.
28:24
I could see that the Lord is is speaking to them.
28:27
He's trying to speak to them and they're ignoring it and they
28:33
don't recognize the danger zone that they're in because first of
28:36
all, they're like, oh, God's not talking to me.
28:38
Yes, he is. Yes, yes he is.
28:41
You're ignoring him. And here's where I'm very scared
28:44
for you. You ignore it, it's going to go
28:48
away. He's not going to continue to
28:51
give wisdom where you have not stewarded wisdom.
28:55
Well, that scares me for people sometimes.
28:58
Yeah, yeah, 'cause you gotta go back to what he first told you
29:02
and yeah, that, that trauma bond, it's, it's those other,
29:08
it's those people where you feel like you're walking on egg
29:12
shells during the day. You don't know what you're gonna
29:15
get, you know, like you were just saying, it's, you know, is
29:20
it gonna be a good day or a bad day?
29:21
That is inconsistencies in how they are.
29:26
And yeah, I that's, that's such a good observation, such a good
29:33
discovery. And just for us to recognize
29:38
that that really is a thing and how to navigate through that.
29:42
I think I'll, I'll finish up right here with this question
29:45
because I think this could be a little bit of a long one here on
29:49
setting limits. People are always trying to
29:53
navigate how do you set boundaries?
29:55
How do you set limits? And in your chapter, it was so
30:00
wonderful how you actually gave different types of boundaries,
30:04
different types of limits, which is so good.
30:08
I mean, usually you just read something and it's like boundary
30:12
and this is how you do it, but you have it broken down on
30:15
different types of limits, types of boundaries.
30:19
So let's talk about that because I think that a lot of people are
30:24
struggling with how do I do that?
30:26
What, how, how, where do I start and how do I keep that?
30:31
How do I remain with that boundary?
30:34
Because we could set the boundary and then break it and
30:40
you know, we're back to where we were.
30:42
Yes, yeah. So we do have to recognize that
30:46
there are different types of boundaries, but there are also
30:48
different types of people. And I'm not even talking like
30:52
spouse or or friend even. Let's just take, let's take a
30:57
family member, right. First of all, title doesn't
31:01
trump toxicity so you don't get to claim oh I'm your sister and
31:06
you can just run roughshod over my life.
31:09
It doesn't work that way. So we have to 1st decide who is
31:12
this person in my life? Are they a viewer?
31:20
Are they a voice? Are they a vote?
31:24
Do they get veto power? So there's four different levels
31:27
that are taking place in there. So as you can imagine, if we
31:30
start with the end and work backwards, who gets veto power
31:32
in my life? Well, I have three people that
31:37
I've given permission to give me veto power. 1 is my mentor
31:41
coach, 2 is my husband. The other one is the Holy
31:44
Spirit. Those are the only people in my
31:46
life that get veto power, meaning if I'm making a decision
31:49
they can override and say no. Yeah.
31:54
Other people, we'll get a voice. I'm going to ask for your
31:57
opinion. You can give me some feedback or
32:00
no, I should say other people are going to get a vote.
32:03
So I'm going to ask your opinion.
32:04
You're going to get your input and you will get a vote.
32:07
You will get some weigh in. So that group expands a little
32:11
bit, but those are for people that have proven themselves
32:16
trustworthy to me. Now you get people who get a
32:20
voice. You can say whatever you want.
32:22
I might take it, I might not take it.
32:24
Maybe I invited you in, maybe I didn't.
32:26
I don't know. But be careful because if that
32:29
voice starts to cross a boundary, you go down to a
32:32
viewer and that's going to be the lowest.
32:35
So we can't have anybody lower than a viewer.
32:37
I mean, unless you're off on the island of Patmos somewhere and
32:40
all by yourself, people are going to be able to observe from
32:44
the outside. And many people in our lives
32:47
need to be in that position. If they have not proven
32:51
themselves trustworthy, loyal and faithful, they belong in
32:56
that viewer position. OK, so now we sorry, we broke
33:00
down the different types of people.
33:02
And again, it doesn't matter whether it's pastor, partner, Co
33:05
worker, friend, it doesn't make a difference the types of
33:09
boundaries that we have. The first one is we're looking
33:12
at an invisible line. So if you can imagine our
33:16
property, right? If you own a home, you have a
33:19
property line. Every single property has a
33:22
property line. You may not know where it is,
33:24
but you can go to town hall, pull up the schematics and you
33:28
will see where your property ends and the next one begins.
33:32
Some people will just leave, no fence up.
33:37
They'll have a big open field. They want a Clearview.
33:40
They don't care if others see in.
33:42
It doesn't make a difference. These are for healthy people.
33:46
I can have an invisible line for somebody who knows what a
33:51
boundary is. You're not calling me at 2:00 in
33:53
the morning unless it's an absolute emergency.
33:56
You're not just knocking on my front door.
33:58
You're respecting who I am as a person.
34:01
You recognize where you start and where I start, and there's
34:05
separation there. The next one is for people who
34:09
are a little via lady. Now, this could be intentional,
34:12
it could be unintentional. And that's where we put up that
34:15
white picket fence. We're gonna be like, okay, we're
34:18
still gonna keep it pretty. You can see over the top.
34:22
I can still see the trees. But yeah, you've, you've kicked
34:27
your soccer ball in my yard one too many times.
34:29
So we're just gonna just gonna put this fence up.
34:32
Okay. Right.
34:33
So that's the person who you talk to and they're like, yeah,
34:36
yeah, yeah, I get it. Oh, so sorry.
34:38
Yeah, I'm going to go reprimand little Angela and whatever.
34:41
And it just keeps happening, right?
34:43
You don't think they're toxic people, but they're not really
34:47
going out of their way to make any changes.
34:50
Let's just make it clear. My property, yours.
34:55
Then you have people who are going to say, I don't care that
34:59
you have a white picket fence. It's in my way.
35:02
So I'm either going to knock it down or I'm just going to kick
35:05
the ball over your fence or I'm going to park in your driveway
35:08
and then I'll apologize later because we're friends, we're
35:12
family, you get it. Those people need a stricter 1
35:17
and that's going to be like a brick wall, something that's
35:21
higher, that's making it very obvious that there's, there's no
35:24
question here that ball is not making its way over my fence.
35:29
The last one, it's for those people who will literally take a
35:34
bulldozer to your brick wall and say, how dare you, I'm your
35:37
mother, I'm your sister, you shouldn't be doing this.
35:40
And they're put, they're imposing what they believe onto
35:44
you, completely disrespecting your requests and your
35:46
boundaries. And for those people, you need
35:49
an alligator mote. That's where that total
35:51
separation comes in. For some people, no contact is
35:56
necessary, even if it's just for a season.
36:00
There needs to be that type of separation.
36:03
Now here's where most people struggle is I don't want a brick
36:07
wall in my backyard. I don't want to be a Princess in
36:11
some castle somewhere where it's surrounded by an alligator Moat
36:14
where people can't get in. But sometimes we have to live
36:19
that way, especially within our heart, to keep those people out.
36:23
So I can steward what God gave me well.
36:27
Yeah. So those are the different types
36:29
of people. Those are the different types of
36:30
boundaries. And now here's where it gets
36:32
really confusing because we want, it's so easy, Jamie.
36:36
We want to just say, OK, that person did that.
36:38
That's a no contact. Oh, that one did that.
36:41
Yeah. That one only needs a picket
36:43
fence. The problem is, is people are
36:46
different. People can change and the
36:48
boundaries can now be fluid. So if I had a, an alligator mote
36:53
with you at one point and then within the next 6-12, eighteen
36:58
months God did a work in you, well, maybe we can open that
37:03
door again. I'm not putting up an invisible
37:05
fence, but I, I may cross over the Moat and see how we do.
37:12
And I can drop that boundary down, but only after trust is
37:17
restored. And that's the problem that a
37:20
lot of people get into. We believe that being a good
37:22
Christian means that I have to trust forgiveness and trust not
37:27
the same thing. Forgiveness and reconciliation,
37:30
not even close. Forgiveness and access, not the
37:34
same. So we want to build that trust.
37:38
And if that other person isn't willing to 1st repent, then
37:43
yeah, I wouldn't be loosening the boundary.
37:46
Yeah, wow, that's so great, that insight on making the boundaries
37:50
fluid, because I think in our heads we're like, oh, it's
37:53
permanent. It has to be this way.
37:54
And, you know, we want healing. We want the relationships to be
38:00
healed. I mean, God wants that.
38:02
And so when we're being led by the Holy Spirit, being led by
38:06
God's word to heal these difficult relationships that
38:09
we're in, then, you know, we want those boundaries to be
38:15
flexible eventually. And so I love that perspective
38:19
that it can change. It doesn't have to be cemented
38:22
in and be permanent. So that is a really good just
38:27
eye opener right there. OK.
38:29
I'd love to conclude with a take away, something that the
38:33
listener can ponder on or take action in.
38:36
Maybe something that you're offering some goodies and where
38:40
everyone can get this amazing book.
38:42
Absolutely. Thank you.
38:44
So the best place would be to go to my website,
38:47
whichischrisreese.com. That's Chris with a K, Reese
38:50
with a C. There you will find a host of
38:54
those videos that are going to talk about setting boundaries,
38:57
conquering codependency, how to navigate, how to spot.
39:00
All of these toxic topics are touched on in there.
39:04
Lots of great resources. I've got a free narcissist
39:07
survival guide, so you can jump on over there and grab that.
39:10
My book is available not only on the website but also on Amazon.
39:15
But one of the things, if it's OK, I would love to help that
39:20
listener understand right now, one of the best things that you
39:23
can do right in this very moment is shift your focus.
39:29
I know it's so tempting to keep your eyes on the narcissist, on
39:33
the toxic behavior, trying to get them to see it, trying to
39:37
get them to change it, because right now your mind is going in
39:40
a loop. You're trying to process.
39:41
This just doesn't make sense. And I get it because that's not
39:45
who you are, but it's who they are.
39:49
So take your eyes off of them. Shift your focus to the Lord.
39:55
Pray for them. I would say, God, what are you
39:58
looking to do in me and through me?
40:01
Because for whatever reason, you've allowed this person to
40:03
remain in my life. I promise you that God has
40:08
something absolutely amazing on the other side of this, if you
40:12
will let Him do His holy work within you.
40:15
So good. Wow, thank you so much, Chris,
40:19
what amazing wisdom you brought and to impart us and just an
40:26
amazing person you are. And thank you so much for your
40:30
obedience and your yes to write this book.
40:32
And as hard as it was where God was calling you to this, I'm so
40:37
grateful. I think everyone here that's
40:39
listening or grateful that you said yes to this message to
40:44
deliver to us. So thank you.
40:46
So much. Chris.
40:47
Thank you, I greatly appreciate it.
40:49
It's been such a blessing. Thank you so much for listening
40:53
today, and I trust that God has encouraged you through this
40:56
story. Did you know this podcast is on
40:59
YouTube? Hop on there and subscribe and
41:02
you can see a live recording of each episode.
41:06
And For more information on this ministry and to access free
41:10
downloads, please visit my website at jamieelizabeth.com.
41:14
That's JAYME Elizabeth com and let's connect beyond this
41:20
podcast by going to my Instagram handle.
41:23
Jamie Elizabeth She speaks life or Facebook.
41:26
Until next time, my friend, I hope God reveals himself through
41:30
your own life story.