Latest / The Mwango Capital Podcast / The Pressure to Look Successful

Transcript

The Pressure to Look Successful · The Mwango Capital Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Good evening, everyone.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us today.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: I am Rina Namsia and I'm your host at Mwango Spaces.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: So before I introduce the topic of today,
0:08
SPEAKER_01: our speaker today is Anthony Bryan Otieno,
0:11
SPEAKER_01: who is a general manager at TechEasy Kenya.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: So, Anthony,
0:15
SPEAKER_01: the topic today is the pressure to look successful,
0:18
SPEAKER_01: especially for the young men and the cost of it.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: And we are looking into how much of this spending is genuine and functional
0:25
SPEAKER_01: and what is actually informed by peer pressure, social media.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Anthony, tell us, what is your take on this topic?
0:48
SPEAKER_00: I've learned that there are very big difference
0:50
SPEAKER_00: between looking like you've actually arrived and actually building something
0:54
SPEAKER_00: that can sustain you when nobody's watching.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: But I also want to say that I'm coming into this conversation not as
1:01
SPEAKER_00: a financial expert, but I'm coming in as a businessman also.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: I hope we can have some honest conversations about this and we can get some tips
1:08
SPEAKER_00: on how to maneuver the pressures of life.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Antony.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: First, Mwango speaks about financials and all that,
1:26
SPEAKER_01: and you're going to talk about wealth creation,
1:29
SPEAKER_01: and I believe it integrates well into financial,
1:31
SPEAKER_01: their own work in conjunction with each other.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: But even your experience with working with retail, We've had the situation that
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Wealth is acquired.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Rich people are acquired.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: We currently live in a moment where you have to look wealthy.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: You have to speak it loud.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: At what point did we get there?
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Or how did we get there?
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Namsia.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't think demonstrating is something new.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Every generation has had a symbol of progress.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: In the older generation,
2:12
SPEAKER_00: the days of our grandfathers,
2:13
SPEAKER_00: they would measure success with land,
2:15
SPEAKER_00: probably a permanent house, the livestock that you have.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: The level of education that you've given your children and even the professional standing.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: What has changed is the visibility and the frequency of comparison in my opinion.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Today before breakfast,
2:30
SPEAKER_00: just say for example you're having your breakfast and you're having your phone.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: You can see someone buying an account on social media.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: You can see people opening a business.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: You can see somebody posting, they're traveling.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Other people are buying houses.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: People are launching their different brands and so on and so forth.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Social media shows the outcomes.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: So eventually success stops being something you're building.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: And become something that you feel you're required to demonstrate
3:07
SPEAKER_00: because you saw somebody doing it.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: You also just want to show in as much as probably you haven't gotten to that point yet.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: You just want to maintain your relevance and to be seen like something is going on
3:18
SPEAKER_00: in your life in as much as probably it's really not the case on the ground.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: You've mentioned social media.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Are you listening?
3:24
SPEAKER_01: Is it your own choice or are we letting social media inform so much of how we define success?
3:32
SPEAKER_00: I think we are living in a very interesting times in the social media space
3:35
SPEAKER_00: because everybody wants to look successful.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to appear like I've made it in life.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: So yes,
3:41
SPEAKER_00: social media is playing a very huge role in the kind of lifestyle and the kind
3:45
SPEAKER_00: of pressure that people are getting.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: So for you to also prove a point.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: So yes, social media is...
4:17
SPEAKER_00: No, the generation before us.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: It used to measure success from taking kids to school
4:36
SPEAKER_01: and how bad they took their kids to school, what levels, land.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: But right now,
4:41
SPEAKER_01: for me as a leader,
4:42
SPEAKER_01: I would say,
4:43
SPEAKER_01: like you mentioned, social media, look at how people are dressed, get blessed.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: You as a man, today you are going to focus more on young men.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: What are these things men are actually succumbing to when it comes to measuring their success?
4:56
SPEAKER_01: We've seen maybe, is it about the cars and apartments where they live?
5:00
SPEAKER_01: What are these things that actually affect the young men mostly and they use them
5:05
SPEAKER_01: to define success studies?
5:06
SPEAKER_00: Kenyan man, yes.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: I also form part of the Kenyan man.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: I think the pressure is different rather than it's simply greater.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Comparing the older generation and today, there was that pressure in the past.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Our fathers struggled so much to take us to school and there are those
5:22
SPEAKER_00: who sold their cows, there are those who sold their passes of land.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Just to make sure that their kids went to school and they really did a good job.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: But the pressure that currently is a bit different.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: The reason I'm saying it is because the one I'm expectation now sits on top of
5:35
SPEAKER_00: the car that people are driving,
5:36
SPEAKER_00: the neighbourhood where you live,
5:37
SPEAKER_00: the kind of experiences you're getting over the weekend and things like that.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: I also want to say vividly that I think there are also some internal pressures
5:59
SPEAKER_00: that men have given themselves and it's important that we take responsibilities.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Men compete with one another.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes nobody asks you to upgrade your car,
6:08
SPEAKER_00: but you just feel like,
6:09
SPEAKER_00: you know,
6:09
SPEAKER_00: I've been with this car for So you'd find other people getting into loans
6:13
SPEAKER_00: that they would have avoided just because they have to upgrade their life.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: They have to get into not internal.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: You cannot see someone serving.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: You cannot see someone serving.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: You cannot see someone's business equity or something like that.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: You cannot see someone's investment.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: You cannot see someone's insurance or even the cash flow that they have.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: But it's easy for you to see the car they're driving.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: It's easy for you to see the kind of watch they're putting on their wrist.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: I think people are so keen on, men are so keen on what is easily visible.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: That is what they put as a scope and rather than actually putting in the work
7:05
SPEAKER_00: and letting the things come out later on after they are well established
7:09
SPEAKER_00: and they have all the muscles that are required.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting to hear that also men cope with among themselves.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: We always thought that it's as women who...
7:16
SPEAKER_01: You want to look like so-and-so.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And now that I hear also men do that, I'm just wondering, now let's throw in the dating scene.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: We cannot avoid that topic when it comes to looking the bad and providing.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Men have always been known or sought to say that.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: They are the ones who need to pay all the bills on a date.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Ladies come in with the expectations.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about dating expectations on young men mostly because
7:42
SPEAKER_01: the pressure is mostly there.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: They want to look at them.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: They want to drive a certain car, maybe to a I think for some people absolutely yes.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Certain social environment make the kind of restaurants they want to go to,
8:05
SPEAKER_00: the cars,
8:05
SPEAKER_00: the neighborhoods, the experiences, they signal different kind of desirability.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Men also participate in certain social expectations.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we deliberately lead with financial services.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: I think a healthcare relationship allows financial authenticity.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: But also,
8:19
SPEAKER_00: you see,
8:19
SPEAKER_00: this kind of pressure comes from the kind of ladies also that men would want
8:24
SPEAKER_00: to interact with.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Today, it's really important.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: It's really not easy to just pick a lady and say,
8:34
SPEAKER_00: I want us to go and eat, say for example, chapati maragua or something like that.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Most ladies would want to turn that down.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: And you know,
8:41
SPEAKER_00: the kind of status that the ladies on the hood today is,
8:44
SPEAKER_00: if you want me to go with you on a date,
8:46
SPEAKER_00: then You have to come and pick me from where I am.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: But then if a man doesn't really have a car,
8:51
SPEAKER_00: there's a certain class of ladies they might not engage with.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: They're those ladies that probably if you want to ask for their numbers and they see
8:59
SPEAKER_00: with some small mwangocapital.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have to upgrade my style.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have to get an iPhone.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: When they see the three cameras at the back, then it's really easy to get them into
9:20
SPEAKER_00: So I think all this has contributed to the kind of the dating scenes that you're having today.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: I believe there are still some very genuine people who get into relationships
9:30
SPEAKER_00: and dating because of love.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: But there are those who have been lured into this kind of dating environment and not
9:36
SPEAKER_00: because of genuine love or something,
9:39
SPEAKER_00: but it's because of the flashy kind of lifetime that is demonstrated from
9:42
SPEAKER_00: the beginning.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, this is kind of oppression that is there.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Let's stick on that parenting scene happening to me.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: So as you have explained,
9:50
SPEAKER_01: a man sees a certain lady of a certain level and wants to pursue her,
9:54
SPEAKER_01: but he is not there.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: So do we say this is pressure from social media and outside pressure,
9:59
SPEAKER_01: or it is pressure from within himself?
10:01
SPEAKER_00: This pressure is from the man.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: They're both genuinely, you'd find a very well put up lady, beautiful, he has her life going on.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: She hasn't even spoken that, you know, you have to have this amount of money or something.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: But just from the appearance, you know, men are quite visual before anything else.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Just look at a lady and be like, this one is quite expensive.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: I might not even be able to afford that.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's unfair to simply blame women on the dating culture.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Men participate in creating this kind of economy.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: And if we deliberately want to use cars,
10:30
SPEAKER_00: restaurants and lights,
10:31
SPEAKER_00: I kind of agree on that because we've seen ladies on social media.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: And just in real life as well,
10:48
SPEAKER_01: seeing they are upgrading themselves, investing in themselves to be there.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: And so only a man who is at their level will have to,
10:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't know which gender to blame or blame no one or each gender
11:00
SPEAKER_01: to blame themselves.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: For real, there is that pressure from somewhere to look the bad.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Now, when a man takes even a lady out,
11:07
SPEAKER_01: is it a responsibility for him to take care of bills,
11:11
SPEAKER_01: for instance,
11:11
SPEAKER_01: so that he can actually show,
11:13
SPEAKER_01: you know, I can take care of you, even if he doesn't earn the money?
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Is picking a bill and generosity,
11:19
SPEAKER_01: or where and fee, as citizens purchase, where they can't afford to skip?
11:23
SPEAKER_00: I'll say this in two parts.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: If you ask me, I think naturally a man was created to be a provider, isn't it?
11:29
SPEAKER_00: A man should provide.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: Man should really provide.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: But the question of is picking the bill like a generosity and things like that?
11:37
SPEAKER_00: It can be either.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: I strongly believe personally in generosity.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: If I'm doing well and I'm with people I care about,
11:43
SPEAKER_00: there are times I'll happily pay for the bills.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: But now if I narrow down to the dating scene that we're still on, a man should provide.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: I think that's just something That is important.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: It's good to be generous.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: The problem begins when generosity becomes an obligation to maintain an identity.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: If everyone automatically looks at you when the deal arrives because you train them,
12:05
SPEAKER_00: they're used to like, oh, Anthony is always sorting.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: The most times where it's not even a one-on-one date like you and
12:12
SPEAKER_00: the person you're dating,
12:13
SPEAKER_00: sometimes it gets to a level where now she has to come with her friends,
12:17
SPEAKER_00: next time she's come with her brothers, next time for cousins and things like that.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: It means you've already created financial expectations.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the mature response,
12:27
SPEAKER_00: if you ask me,
12:27
SPEAKER_00: would be if I say it in Sohili,
12:29
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:31
SPEAKER_00: if friendship cannot survive that,
12:32
SPEAKER_00: perhaps you are Does social media compress the access family?
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Wow, making people feel like they need to look like they're 35 when they're actually seeing 25.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: You're seeing young men who are driving big cars, very expensive cars.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Previously,
13:11
SPEAKER_01: we used to think or see or imagine that if you just drive certain cars,
13:15
SPEAKER_01: change certain roads, you have to be maybe in 40s, 50s, you know.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: But right now, we are having very young people living the life.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: If genuine or not, we do not know.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: In social media...
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Compressing timelines to look that successful at that particular age.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: And as you answer that,
13:32
SPEAKER_01: having that kind of lifestyle as a young man, does it also change the way you think?
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Are you probably saying wise in terms of decisions you make?
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Or does it even make you think that a superficial level in judging others
13:46
SPEAKER_01: who have not fixed you or you are at your age?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: I think social media, yes, it compresses.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: The success timelines.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: And we see achievement without context.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: And really, that's something we see in our society today.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of achievement, but we really cannot trace back the context of the same.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: The house that somebody has without the 15 years.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: I think over time I've come to myself.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And in my introduction, I said,
14:25
SPEAKER_00: my journey personally has really taught me quite a lot because there are those times
14:30
SPEAKER_00: where you just joined a particular kind of employment and you find people
14:35
SPEAKER_00: who are there ahead of you and you just want to get to that level without trying
14:40
SPEAKER_00: to understand how they got to where they have been.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: So we have seen,
14:44
SPEAKER_00: and this is to both men and women who on social media,
14:49
SPEAKER_00: you see somebody posting,
14:51
SPEAKER_00: they've gone to Dubai,
14:52
SPEAKER_00: they've gone So if I print five-year-old, for example, they wonder that how
15:08
SPEAKER_00: How comes this guy that he ate and he has not achieved what he asked?
15:11
SPEAKER_00: So there are those treasures.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: And just like you've said, I think it also comes with maturity in mind.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: There are those levels that require some shipping so that you can be well experienced.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: So for them, it will just be like,
15:38
SPEAKER_00: What am I supposed to do?
15:39
SPEAKER_00: What they'll be looking at is, I want to change my car.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I want to buy a new phone.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: I just want to spoil this lady who has always been on my mind for a long time.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: But over time, there's a certain age that when you get to, now you do not think all.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: I want to spoil so and so.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I want to upgrade this and that.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: But you'd rather now begin to say, I want to invest in this.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: There's this business that I want to put on some money in.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: There are these new skills that I want to acquire.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: They're both things that come also with age and maturity.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: So the shrinking or rather the compressing of the timelines due to the influence of
16:13
SPEAKER_00: the social media has also led to a lot of moral decay.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: You look at some of the things that are happening and there are some terms
16:19
SPEAKER_00: that now people are using like the Forex, which is not real.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: So there are people who have thrown away their morals just because of
16:26
SPEAKER_00: the social media pressure.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: They want to finish high school, get
16:38
SPEAKER_00: And the Get Rich Quick schemes has really eroded the society.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And this is really contributed to by the social media.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: And also those aspects I've seen,
16:48
SPEAKER_00: and even in my area of work,
16:49
SPEAKER_00: where we have guys who they don't want even to go through the process of Academics
16:53
SPEAKER_00: of Education,
16:54
SPEAKER_00: you find now somebody just wants to have the title without putting in the works,
16:59
SPEAKER_00: the study.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: It's easy to buy a certificate today.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: You can buy a degree, you can buy a master's.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: So all these things are the pressures because probably those are delaying your life
17:07
SPEAKER_00: at some point.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: They're
17:32
SPEAKER_01: We have some young people here listening to us and maybe struggling to define success.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: But Anthony,
17:37
SPEAKER_01: if they talk about the young people,
17:39
SPEAKER_01: what does success look like at 25 or 30,
17:42
SPEAKER_01: given your experience in life and in all these aspects of life?
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Recall, right?
17:46
SPEAKER_01: And now we have the genies in quotes,
17:49
SPEAKER_01: probably even other young millennials who really don't care about the cost
17:53
SPEAKER_01: of looking the back.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: They don't care about the morality.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: Maybe tell us what does success look like at 25?
17:59
SPEAKER_01: And them that believe that they don't care about whatever is defined as success right now.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: What is this cost that they could be facing in the future, maybe in 10 years to come?
18:09
SPEAKER_01: So that they probably may understand more than just success.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: The money, it's other things as well.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: At 25, I would want to reflect on my own life.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: I think at 25, success should look more like foundation than arrive on, in my opinion.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: You are successful if you're beginning to know who you are,
18:26
SPEAKER_00: developing a useful skill, earning honestly, learning how to manage money.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Building meaningful relationships,
18:33
SPEAKER_00: taking responsibilities for your decision and also developing the discipline
18:37
SPEAKER_00: to say no to things, to say no to things that compromise your value.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Morally, I think one of the biggest measure of success at 25 is how you're becoming successful.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: It is actually a foundation.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: If you're making money but losing your integrity,
18:50
SPEAKER_00: exploiting people,
18:52
SPEAKER_00: living dishonestly or compromising everything,
18:55
SPEAKER_00: it
18:58
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't really put a necessary pressure on a 25-year-old to already have
19:05
SPEAKER_00: the house, expensive car, the perfect investment portfolio.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: At that age, your greatest asset may not be.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: They're sitting in a bank account.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: They could be your character,
19:15
SPEAKER_00: they could be your competence,
19:17
SPEAKER_00: they could be your reputation,
19:18
SPEAKER_00: they could be your relationships and earning potential.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: So in summary, I think that 25 success is not having a lot.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: It's becoming someone who can be trusted with a lot in future.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: That's how Binuka did for a 25-year-old boys.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Now,
19:33
SPEAKER_01: given that we have these young men who already perceive success and already feel
19:39
SPEAKER_01: or think that they have the money,
19:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if they can agree with us that that is what success looks like,
19:45
SPEAKER_01: but then they believe in buying premium and to them live.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: Living in that phone, dreaming that is what actually they define as success.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: It's so hard to even talk to them.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: I think we've seen it.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: The Forex boys, they're all over the social media.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Do we say that the older men have seen the younger boys or the younger boys?
20:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: How can they actually be inclined to see what actual success is at their age,
20:11
SPEAKER_01: despite them having all this success in making all this money
20:14
SPEAKER_01: that they have made generally or generally?
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Whether younger or older men have failed the younger men, I don't think so.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: At some point, I would refer to my own experience.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: There are those things that would really want to drive you into becoming
20:29
SPEAKER_00: a morally upright person, somebody who is...
20:32
SPEAKER_00: So, there are those who really don't care about a good name, which is okay for them.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: If you want to build something that is really strong,
20:50
SPEAKER_00: that can last the test of time,
20:52
SPEAKER_00: even after yourself,
20:54
SPEAKER_00: you can build wealth that you can live for your children
20:57
SPEAKER_00: and your children's children, then you have to go the right way.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there are those who might not agree.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: There are some stages in life that when you get too much money,
21:05
SPEAKER_00: you can even not know how to spend it.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: But coming back to this conversation, as we go in life, priorities are going to be different.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: It gets to a point where you actually don't want a very I have seen
21:19
SPEAKER_00: and I know people, I interact with some of them.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't mention their names here,
21:22
SPEAKER_00: but if you meet them on the street,
21:24
SPEAKER_00: you would think this is just a very ordinary person.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: But now when you sit down, you will be told this building belongs to so and so.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: So you'd be like, oh,
21:36
SPEAKER_00: but he doesn't really look like it because you've gotten to the level
21:39
SPEAKER_00: of now you're not keen on flashiness,
21:42
SPEAKER_00: but you're keen on amassing wealth that you're going to leave
21:45
SPEAKER_00: for your children's children.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: What's happening today is,
21:48
SPEAKER_00: especially for the young people, there's the morals decaying and eroding.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: We are keen on what we are enjoying today.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, what young people would say, we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: What if I say if I put some money in some investment and then I die?
22:02
SPEAKER_00: So people are more keen on this superficial kind of lifestyle.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: I get $100,000 today.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to spend $90,000 on dinner or something on vacation.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: And then who cares about tomorrow?
22:12
SPEAKER_00: That's how some people look at it.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But if, for example, you left home to change homes.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: ...And doesn't...
22:32
SPEAKER_00: I care about what happens at home.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: There are those who are lucky that they still have jobs, but their family still supports them.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: But there are those who they know deep down that if I lose my job today,
22:45
SPEAKER_00: not only will I struggle, but even the people around me.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: So these two people are different,
22:49
SPEAKER_00: much as they're both young,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: but you'd find somebody who wants to change home,
22:53
SPEAKER_00: will make sure that home changes fast before he begins to enjoy some
22:58
SPEAKER_00: of these benefits that they had.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: I know some young people because I interact with them.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: They would say, you know, my father lived his time and he enjoyed life.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: And if he failed, that's his failure.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: It is not my responsibility to take care of my mother or my father.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: I think it is in the social domain where a young guy was saying,
23:17
SPEAKER_00: you know, I told my mother I'm not his husband and things like that.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: So there are different ways of looking at it.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: But personally,
23:22
SPEAKER_00: if you ask me,
23:23
SPEAKER_00: I think maturity comes with the life experiences and the things that you go through
23:28
SPEAKER_00: that would make you want to maintain your reputation.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: You want to be confident.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: So different ways of looking at it,
23:33
SPEAKER_00: depending on the angle,
23:34
SPEAKER_00: but where I am currently, I think that's how I would define this even going forward.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I agree with you.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Some of the conversations we see out here or within our lives as well,
23:59
SPEAKER_01: and actually the things I've gone through growing up,
24:02
SPEAKER_01: so it is a lot more about the upbringing,
24:05
SPEAKER_01: probably as a trauma, but someone is facing emotional or mental issues.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: But I think that ties to that.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: And perhaps also experience is a good teacher
24:14
SPEAKER_01: to actually make someone see things different in our meditation a different way,
24:19
SPEAKER_01: like you have mentioned.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's move from there.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: What's the
24:24
SPEAKER_01: difference between being cheap and making a smart financial decision
24:30
SPEAKER_01: or not just financial decision,
24:32
SPEAKER_01: the things you buy in your life,
24:33
SPEAKER_01: the decisions you make, just anything you buy for yourself.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: So can one genuinely enjoy life while still building well?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Personally, I'm a very firm believer of enjoying life.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Life should be lit.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: We need to enjoy life.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: But also,
25:00
SPEAKER_00: I think what is actually the difference between cheap and making
25:03
SPEAKER_00: a smart financial decision if I got your question correctly?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Cheap would ask what is the lowest amount I can pay.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: But a smart decision would be what's the best value I can get for what I actually need.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes buying cheap costs more because you replace the item or probably lose
25:22
SPEAKER_00: the productivity.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: But paying three times.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: More for features you don't need because
25:26
SPEAKER_00: the product carries prestige is not automatically smart either.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Financial intelligence starts by understanding your requirement and then spending at
25:35
SPEAKER_00: the level that solves it properly.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: At the same time, I would say this.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: If I use figures at some time,
25:41
SPEAKER_00: buying something worth $15,000, $150,000 for example, that's a phone.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: When you can get one at $50,000 does not really mean that you've made a wise decision.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: You should understand what the extra $100,000 is buying for you.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: So I think these are kind of things that you need to look at.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to get everything cheap because of money.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: The price is low.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: More so, we need to look at some smart financial decisions.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: The value that you get from what you need isn't giving you the value, not just cheap.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: It should be giving you value for your money.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Now, talking of gadgets,
26:23
SPEAKER_01: you mentioned phones, and I tend to think men are more into buying gadgets and cars.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: So when you buy technology,
26:32
SPEAKER_01: are you buying the logo or are you asking what the device actually needs to do
26:36
SPEAKER_01: for you in life, right?
26:36
SPEAKER_01: I think you've answered that well.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: It is part of making the smart decision, that extra amount that you are buying with or for.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: What does it do for your life?
26:45
SPEAKER_01: So if friends says that is your money, your choices in a parent is actually working for you.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
26:52
SPEAKER_01: I think it
26:55
SPEAKER_00: looks quite ordinary,
26:57
SPEAKER_00: knowing where your money goes,
26:59
SPEAKER_00: not being afraid to look at your bank balance,
27:01
SPEAKER_00: having savings,
27:02
SPEAKER_00: investing consistently,
27:04
SPEAKER_00: managing obligations,
27:06
SPEAKER_00: not automatically upgrading because everyone else has, and being able to say no.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Equally, it means that being able to buy something You generally want without guilt.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: You need to buy something without feeling guilty because you plan for it
27:19
SPEAKER_00: and can comfortably afford it.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Owning your move means your decision reflect your priorities rather than your audience.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is you're buying,
27:28
SPEAKER_00: whatever you want to have,
27:29
SPEAKER_00: it should be driven by your priority, not for people to see.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: If you're buying something for people to see, then Most likely it might not serve you.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: I know people who have very expensive devices,
27:42
SPEAKER_00: but they know probably just 30% of what that device can do.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: And why did they buy it?
27:48
SPEAKER_00: They bought it because the people around me are using this.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: So I have to use it in as much as probably it's not giving me the same kind of experience.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: So it should really reflect on your priorities and what you need at that time.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: That's what you need to consider more when you want to get an advice.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: And yes, it's true.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I've been in the mobile phone industry for 16, 17 years.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: And yes,
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I work for a mobile phone brand that is quite popular to most people,
28:16
SPEAKER_00: but there are also those that are considered more superior than the rest.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: I would just mention technology.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: My mobile has been there for 17 years in the Kenyan market.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Luckily, I was one of the few people to introduce the brand in the Kenyan market.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: And I remember those days where you go to introduce this and everybody chases you.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: The retailers, they would be like, ah, this is human.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: But over time,
28:40
SPEAKER_00: looking at the growth that this brand has had,
28:43
SPEAKER_00: Ben, and the kind of technological advancement that we've put in.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: So we have been able to do a lot of research and consulting.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: We always say we think globally but act locally.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: So we think on the perspective of a consumer, what do they want?
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Do they consider the battery?
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Do they consider the camera?
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Do they consider the operating system and things like that?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: So we incorporate all that into one device.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: So we have seen over time where the loyalty of consumers has shifted from brand into
29:16
SPEAKER_00: a gadget that really gives them what they want rather than just buying for prestige
29:22
SPEAKER_00: and status and things like that.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for bringing in the phone conversations and the type of runs
29:28
SPEAKER_01: that we buy, both for ladies and for men.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Where is the actual language in a phone as a data symbol and a phone as a tool?
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Your income depends on functioning properly.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Where is that?
29:39
SPEAKER_01: Is that a thin line or we can actually differentiate?
29:43
SPEAKER_01: Someone is seeing a techno,
29:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't know which is the highest techno, and then someone this is a brand.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Is it a set of symbol out here in your experience with the young people?
29:54
SPEAKER_01: With yourself and your peers,
29:56
SPEAKER_01: when you come together and people come in different forms or even the same brand,
30:00
SPEAKER_01: much different levels,
30:01
SPEAKER_01: when the line between assets or the single for a phone,
30:04
SPEAKER_01: then just a tool for your income.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Because again,
30:07
SPEAKER_01: right now,
30:07
SPEAKER_01: young people are using phones or rather than buying particular brands of phones
30:12
SPEAKER_01: because they're using them to create content that is paying them their income.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: So where's the line draw between having it as a single asset and a tool for earning your income?
30:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's actually a universal price point.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: The line is value related.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: A content creator may buy an expensive phone because of the camera,
30:32
SPEAKER_00: the processing capability as well, and the ecosystem generally supports the income.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: That phone can be productive.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: So, the key is knowing whether you
30:53
SPEAKER_00: So being for performance, productivity, experience, or just basically recognition.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: But what I've seen over time, yes,
31:01
SPEAKER_00: there are brands that have a bigger name that people would want to associate
31:06
SPEAKER_00: with their status,
31:07
SPEAKER_00: but also what just to answer the question that you asked,
31:10
SPEAKER_00: the highest level of the techno products.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: We have Phantom Series that is on the deep.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: We have the Pulver, which is really strong.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think I would really narrow down to Pulver in this conversation.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: But we also have the Carbon Series.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: Have you been in situations where you're making a call and you've just gotten into
31:28
SPEAKER_00: a lift and you're like, hello, hello, I can't hear you, what are you talking about?
31:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, those kind of things.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: You've been to situations where you charge your phone in the morning.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: It's getting to around 3 p.m.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: You have to walk around with your charger,
31:48
SPEAKER_00: whether you're going to the restaurant just for a takeaway meal.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: You're like,
31:51
SPEAKER_00: and then you have So then what we have strongly invested in is the research
31:56
SPEAKER_00: and development.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: And we are very consumer-centric.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: What we did with this Polva is to put in a very strong battery of 8,000 mAh.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: So this one is guaranteed.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: If you're just a light user of Polva, you can use it.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: And for two to three days without charging them, this can be tested.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: We also have the capability of the tri-chip set where now,
32:30
SPEAKER_00: wherever you are,
32:31
SPEAKER_00: whether you are on the basement, not just basement, one can be in a sad basement.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: You would still use your phone confidently and comfortably because The chief center is there.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: So then it means that besides probably the Abuzo associate techno in the past,
32:45
SPEAKER_00: the history was, you know, techno is this and that.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: But over time, how we have come into getting to the hearts.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: So
32:59
SPEAKER_00: introducing Tova into the Kenyan market was a very strategic opportunity for us.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: And if anyone is here who has experienced the Tova youth,
33:09
SPEAKER_00: The key interest is majorly on the operating system and also the battery capability
33:15
SPEAKER_00: as well as the network enablement where you can use it anywhere.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: You're guaranteed you want to go on a safari in Masai Mara.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever looked for a power bank amongst your friends and you can't have it?
33:26
SPEAKER_00: You would still be standing out.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: So that is basically what we do.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: And it comes at a price that is, let's say, even half an hour.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: What you would want to buy for prestige, which you might not even use 10% of the same.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: There are no players in the industry, of course.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: I just mentioned one, for example, iPhone.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: There are those who have iPhones,
33:44
SPEAKER_00: but definitely,
33:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:45
SPEAKER_00: iPhone every month, you still have to subscribe for the iCloud and things like that.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: The cost of buying,
33:51
SPEAKER_00: and then there's the maintenance cost,
33:53
SPEAKER_00: that in the long run, then it becomes quite unsustainable for some people.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: There are those who,
33:58
SPEAKER_00: iPhone users,
33:59
SPEAKER_00: hi if you hear, how many of you do pay for the iCloud subscription every month?
34:03
SPEAKER_00: A few of them.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: And it comes with an extra storage space, the cloud storage space of more than 200.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: So you see the value addition that comes to it.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: So then we look at the consumers that we are having,
34:26
SPEAKER_00: the Kenyan consumers who are on the average earning,
34:29
SPEAKER_00: and we want them to get these devices.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: So besides just buying in cash,
34:34
SPEAKER_00: we also So partner with other device financing enablers like OnPhone and
34:38
SPEAKER_00: the likes just to give our customers that opportunity to also own this device.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: And our service centers are spread to across more than 60 service centers everywhere.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: So who do we want to associate with the So you look at all the value additions
34:51
SPEAKER_00: that comes with purchasing a device that you don't have to pay
34:54
SPEAKER_00: for any subscription every month,
34:56
SPEAKER_00: then you'd want to get something that is valued for your money.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: I think I've really elaborated that.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: You also just answered an extra question there where I wanted to talk
35:21
SPEAKER_01: about performance in itself becoming a form of status.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Because again,
35:26
SPEAKER_01: here we are talking about economics of status and the pressure to look successful.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And then you want to...
35:31
SPEAKER_01: We want to have the best guidance.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: We want to have the best for the visiting content.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: If it's about, you know, the reception at the investment.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: But some of those guidance that young people would want to go for are quite expensive.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: And you see that on social media all the time.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely right.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Think on the performance and status is key.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: If your work depends on your phone lasting the whole day,
36:12
SPEAKER_00: like you just mentioned,
36:13
SPEAKER_00: then it's important to stay connected and handle everything that comes your way.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: The smartphone has evolved into an economic tool.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: It's not long.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: They're just for sending messages and making calls.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Someone runs a WhatsApp business from it.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: Another one creates content through the smartphone.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: There are those who receive payments, you know, mobile money kind of wallets.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: There are those who coordinate deliveries.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: There's somebody who responds to customers or edits videos.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: For this kind of person, I think battery life isn't simply just a specification.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: It's something that is a huge requirement when they're buying a device.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Performance, storage, connectivity, reliability becomes productivity issue.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: So perhaps modern status is not only which phone are you carrying,
37:00
SPEAKER_00: but what does the phone you're carrying enable you to get?
37:03
SPEAKER_00: So you could be having a very flashy phone, but to what?
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Does it enable you to do that this other one cannot enable you to do?
37:12
SPEAKER_00: So the status should be more on performance rather than just the flashy kind
37:17
SPEAKER_00: of design and the name that is out there.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Anthony.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: As we head towards the end of this discussion, I'd like you to answer me your question.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: What's that one financial decision that you make differently today compared to five years ago?
37:32
SPEAKER_01: But before you answer the question,
37:33
SPEAKER_01: maybe just for the young men and ladies and people listening to these faces today,
37:37
SPEAKER_01: because you're talking about the pressure of looking successful and we don't want
37:42
SPEAKER_01: to just dwell on it.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: The pressure will lead on how to look.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Maybe just talk to us how someone is already under that kind of pressure.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: How do they work their way out to that pressure?
37:53
SPEAKER_01: Maybe in order than someone who is loaded in the pressure, but could facilitate.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: What do they need to do to get out of it?
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Or what do they need to do to avoid succumbing to pressure?
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Given that you've had the experience, but they have not had it.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: So just take us through things a young person can look at when they want to lead
38:19
SPEAKER_01: a successful life that is genuine.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Before you answer and next, what are the financial decisions you are making?
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Why see now that you didn't do that five years ago?
38:40
SPEAKER_00: I think for a young person already feeling the pressure to lead successfully,
38:43
SPEAKER_00: I would focus less on budgeting tricks and more on the life choices that we made.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: So I'll give maybe two or three advice from experience.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: So first, we need to define success for yourself.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: I think that's critical.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Have your own definition of success.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: If you don't decide what winning means to you,
39:03
SPEAKER_00: social media,
39:05
SPEAKER_00: friends,
39:05
SPEAKER_00: partners and family will happily give you their definition
39:08
SPEAKER_00: and they will spend your life I think the second advice that I would give to
39:15
SPEAKER_00: a young man is choose your environment carefully
39:18
SPEAKER_00: because your circle determines what begins to feel normal.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: There are those things that are really abnormal in the eyes of other people.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: But for you, because of your circle, you see things as normal.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: If you're constantly around people where every conversation is about cars,
39:33
SPEAKER_00: which is about expensive restaurants,
39:36
SPEAKER_00: it's about holidays and who's adding what, eventually 3.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Let's Accept Our Seasons
39:55
SPEAKER_00: I would advise a 25-year-old, do not want to live in your life.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't want to live the lifestyle that I am living.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: The same way somebody is older than me in his 50s,
40:15
SPEAKER_00: in his 40s, I wouldn't want to live the kind of life they're living.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't want to want to buy my car the same as that person who is in his 15.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: It's not embarrassing about driving what you can afford.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Somebody is driving a Mercedes.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: If you can afford your Vits comfortably,
40:33
SPEAKER_00: if you can afford your Mazda carols comfortably, it's okay.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing embarrassing about leaving where you can afford and say,
40:43
SPEAKER_00: I can't afford that right now where you can live.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: It's not embarrassing.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: It's not wrong for you to say, I cannot afford that one right now.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I think that is the advice I would give.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Just define what success is for you.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Choose your environment carefully and also accept your season.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Do not want to be in a season that you are not yet prepared to be into.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: That would be my advice for this person, this young man.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you so much.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: You put them out quite well and I would agree with that.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's been a very insightful session for us and actually speaking to us for sure.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: And I believe this cannot be a one-time discussion.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: It's a discussion that needs to continuously go on, especially to our young people.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Young ladies as well out here.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: We do not have the course in future or looking at the bad success we now and then
41:49
SPEAKER_01: in future we have the problem that Anthony has spoken to us about.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Anthony has told us, you need to define your success.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: Also choose your environment.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is the circle, the people you engage in.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, as a young person, it matters a lot and also accept your season.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: If you're a young person, don't chase success, as Anthony has told us.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: And so I think we'll close our session today.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: Anthony, just give us closing remarks.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: I got to be it for today.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, The Mwango Team.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: I think my parting shot is simple.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: I would say there's nothing wrong with wanting a good life.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: The car that you want to buy, the travels, wear even the nice clothes.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: Use great technology.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the reward.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: Build before you broadcast.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is you want, just build it before you bring it out there.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: Choose value over validity.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: It's been nice being here and I appreciate the opportunity to share with us.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Anthony.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: I can just say, wow, I cannot add any of what you're hearing us as closing remarks.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: So until next time, thank you so much.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: And everyone who has joined us today, have a lovely evening or a lovely night.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Anthony.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Have a good night, everyone.