Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Luke Molloy about his choice of The Waters of Mars

Transcript

Talks to Luke Molloy about his choice of The Waters of Mars · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None hamster with a blump pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:41
  OK, who's going to intro this? I'll do it.
• 0:48
  OK, well, look, you've done normal intros.
• 0:50
  You've done parody intros. You circled around and done
• 0:53
  parodies of parodies, and then you've done an embarrassing.
• 0:57
  I'm not sure what to do with this intro, so let's see what
• 1:00
  intro you can do today. OK.
• 1:03
  I'll count you in in 54321. Hello and welcome back to a
• 1:13
  hamster with a blunt penknife. The laws of podcasting are mine
• 1:18
  and they will obey me. I am here with everyone's
• 1:21
  favorite podcast host, Joe Ford. Say hello, Joe.
• 1:26
  I should ask Dylan Race, but thank you for the compliment.
• 1:29
  Hello. Time No victorious Luke Malloy.
• 1:33
  But you said we had to die, Luke, for the human race.
• 1:37
  No free knocks is all you're getting, Joe.
• 1:41
  I'm sorry, but Luke Malloy Victorious is wrong.
• 1:47
  I'm just going off with his pistol.
• 1:52
  Joe, how are we? Oh, great.
• 1:54
  Thank you very much. I'm very excited today.
• 1:57
  Yeah, we've we've come up. Well, we'll just get our cards
• 2:00
  on the table straight away. We're together, We're on the
• 2:03
  same side. We're covering The Waters of
• 2:06
  Mars, an episode we both love and an episode that's pretty
• 2:11
  much unanimously loved, would you say?
• 2:13
  I would say this rate is highly I certainly think it did quite
• 2:17
  well in the DWM polls recently, although I've got to admit I
• 2:21
  really don't think very much of those polls if.
• 2:23
  I'm honest. Oh well, like we're covering,
• 2:26
  Heavens said. Usually, generally speaking,
• 2:28
  whatever is in the top three of those polls is very serious and
• 2:32
  worthy and not fun. I do agree with you and I get
• 2:36
  really annoyed when it's my fun the ones missed out, but when my
• 2:41
  worthy ones make it into the top three, I'm very proud I've found
• 2:44
  them. Well, Power of the Doctor was
• 2:47
  quite high, so you must have been quite happy with that.
• 2:50
  Yeah, but that's just because it's got loads of cameos in.
• 2:54
  Shut up. No, I do.
• 2:57
  I I think The Waltz of Mars is an extremely popular episode and
• 3:01
  for me it is probably in my top five all time episodes.
• 3:07
  It's I I was saying to a friend earlier, it's an episode that
• 3:10
  every single time I watch it, I love it more.
• 3:13
  I've never stuck it on, you know, like sometimes you can
• 3:16
  stick something on and go. That's not as good as I remember
• 3:19
  it being. It's always better than the last
• 3:22
  time I watched it, and I watched it this afternoon, and I almost
• 3:25
  came in my knickers and exploded all over the walls.
• 3:27
  It's great. I find that you can't stick this
• 3:31
  one on. Like it just grabs your
• 3:33
  attention every time. I think I've definitely been
• 3:36
  like you where I've put it on, I think and that'll just go in the
• 3:39
  background and 10 minutes in, you just suddenly stop what
• 3:42
  you're doing and end up watching it because it's so dramatic and
• 3:45
  it really grabs you. And this is number 14th Best
• 3:50
  Doctor episode. Which is high?
• 3:52
  Which? Is high.
• 3:53
  Yeah. And that's not just being Uber
• 3:55
  specific for no reason. That's because I wrote my
• 3:57
  ultimate Doctor Who ranking, yeah.
• 4:00
  Blissful list, Serious critical analysis going on in there.
• 4:05
  Yeah. And that is very high.
• 4:08
  And it's full of praise because this is a wonderful, wonderful
• 4:12
  episode. Doctor Who, it's new.
• 4:14
  It's fresh. It still looks amazing.
• 4:17
  It looks incredible, and what really stood out for me was the
• 4:21
  pace of this. I don't think there is another
• 4:24
  Doctor Who episode this furiously paced after this
• 4:29
  episode. Name one.
• 4:32
  Even like the best directed episodes, the Tallele ones,
• 4:35
  they've got a very measured place, deliberately for the most
• 4:38
  part. Like even the action Moffett
• 4:41
  ones, they they they falter for lots of exposition scenes.
• 4:44
  This builds and builds and builds and the last 10 minutes
• 4:47
  is so furiously paced it doesn't stop for a second.
• 4:52
  Yeah, you could be right. Like, well, when I think if the
• 4:55
  first David Tennant ever, it's all, it's all just running in
• 5:00
  action. Whereas after after this we do
• 5:04
  start to slow down. I mean more Moffett doesn't tend
• 5:06
  to do the really, really pacey actiony things, does it?
• 5:11
  Usually a bit more like plotting or complexities going on.
• 5:17
  That's not to say which. They all have no, but they all
• 5:20
  have their place. All those Moffett things, all
• 5:22
  those. Yeah, as a kid, I just adore.
• 5:24
  But as a kid, I adore David Tennant, and I think a lot of
• 5:27
  kids did, because he just used to run everywhere.
• 5:29
  He was an action hero. And you, you just wanted to run
• 5:32
  everywhere too. And there's explosions to the
• 5:34
  left and there's monsters to the right.
• 5:35
  You just wanted to run. And it was great.
• 5:38
  And this, for monsters, is bloody terrifying.
• 5:43
  I watched the Confidential today as well, and as we go through,
• 5:46
  I'm going to be dropping some trivia points because there was
• 5:48
  some really interesting trivia points on that when they showed
• 5:50
  you how they did the monsters and how they were deciding how
• 5:53
  scary they could be. Yeah, yeah.
• 5:55
  Well, they really pushed it to the edge.
• 5:57
  I mean, I remember not wanting to have a shower immediately
• 6:01
  after this episode. I'm sure there was many stinky
• 6:04
  kids for weeks. There's there's two things and a
• 6:09
  whole other subject that I'd like to talk to you about before
• 6:12
  we even press play, if I might. So one thing I really want to
• 6:19
  compliment about this and the Rusty Davis era in general.
• 6:23
  The first Rusty Davis era is how he pulls together a very
• 6:27
  memorable sets of characters that you just don't forget.
• 6:31
  Think Impossible Planet and Satan Pit.
• 6:32
  You know those characters every time they do this sort of base
• 6:35
  under siege like midnight, You know you don't forget any of the
• 6:38
  characters in all of these stories and you put them then in
• 6:42
  an extreme situation. Characters that you get close to
• 6:45
  and you understand and they behave in sort of exciting and
• 6:48
  unpredictable ways. You've just got brilliant drama.
• 6:52
  Skip forward a bit and we're doing stuff like Before the
• 6:56
  Flood and all of that. Do you remember any of those
• 6:59
  people? I don't remember any of them.
• 7:02
  There's there's something to be said about that.
• 7:05
  Like he these groups of characters, the ones that you've
• 7:09
  just said Impossible Planet and the Waters and Mars, they're so
• 7:13
  memorable. Everyone remembers this.
• 7:14
  Space though. Yeah, I well, I think it boils
• 7:18
  down to people think character has to be written by like back
• 7:23
  story and you know, weird quirks and stuff.
• 7:27
  But I think it's like actions and decisions which actually
• 7:30
  determine a character quite quickly.
• 7:32
  And I think RTD makes all the characters make decisions, even
• 7:37
  if it's just a little side IS and things like that that
• 7:40
  suddenly make them feel real and and he he seems to just have a
• 7:44
  grasp on what's going on in all their minds at all points which
• 7:48
  again makes him feel real sort of brings him off the page.
• 7:50
  Just introducing them very quickly, economically and
• 7:54
  memorably. Like, I love the the Russian guy
• 7:57
  in this who doesn't actually do a lot, but he opens up and he's
• 8:00
  there with that sign going, you know, it's a joke.
• 8:04
  Yeah. And you just know that guy is
• 8:06
  straight away and he gets a little scene later on talking
• 8:08
  about his brother and the buying the car.
• 8:11
  And I'm just like, I just love this guy.
• 8:13
  I've only spent a little bit of time with him, but he's great.
• 8:16
  I don't want terrible things to happen to him.
• 8:17
  Oh my God, he's about to die. Drama.
• 8:21
  Well, it's like, it's like the Russian one, isn't it?
• 8:22
  The the Russian woman, I can't remember what she's called.
• 8:25
  Oh, Stephie. Like, she there's no reason why
• 8:29
  you would care for her. And if she was someone that was
• 8:31
  in the street, you'd sort of just walk past her and say hello
• 8:35
  and there's there's absolutely no reason why you'd be so
• 8:37
  attached. Yet when that water comes down,
• 8:39
  she's watching the video of the kids.
• 8:41
  Oh, it's proper. Why does nobody talk about that?
• 8:45
  Saying more, that is an incredible moment.
• 8:48
  Yeah, it's just been like goosies when I watch that.
• 8:50
  Oh, it's yeah, it's so good. And the water is just creeping.
• 8:53
  It's just creeping and creeping and that, I mean, that's the
• 8:57
  greatest gem for this episode, is the water is inescapable, as
• 9:01
  you said, water always. And especially on this planet,
• 9:05
  the the the danger is if they get to Earth and look at the
• 9:08
  Earth, we're surrounded by bloody water.
• 9:10
  Yeah, it's. It's so clever.
• 9:13
  And also like getting a new plot, getting a new story in
• 9:18
  Doctor Who's so hard to do. This is a brand new Doctor Who
• 9:22
  story. They've created this thing about
• 9:24
  fixed points in time, which was a big thing in the first
• 9:27
  Pompeii, and then just put it into the most juicy idea ever of
• 9:32
  what if it happens in the future?
• 9:34
  Because then the whole audience is sat at home going, We'll just
• 9:39
  just save them like it. It doesn't matter.
• 9:41
  It's not like. Making that a fixed point in
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  time that anchors the entire future of the Earth.
• 9:47
  Leave. Absolutely, yeah, of the human
• 9:50
  race leaving the earth. Yeah.
• 9:53
  Oh, that's great. It's so good and it taps into
• 9:56
  all that sort of lovely like science and you know that we
• 10:00
  like the the the general audience likes which is going to
• 10:04
  the moon going to Mars. It's that exciting science that
• 10:07
  is like visible and visual and and we know that it might be in
• 10:11
  our lifetime and stuff like that.
• 10:14
  I think, by the way, I think 2059 is a really good estimate
• 10:17
  for when we'd have a a base on Mars because like Doctor Who,
• 10:21
  writers always have to pluck things.
• 10:23
  You know, I could still be around then as well, you know.
• 10:26
  But I I think that's a pretty realistic date for.
• 10:29
  You'll definitely still be around, so if you could report
• 10:31
  back on whoever my successor in the hamster verse is, I'll be
• 10:35
  very grateful. Oh, I can I be the successor?
• 10:38
  Of course you can. Yeah, my protege.
• 10:42
  Can you make good Dick jokes? Of course you can.
• 10:44
  Yeah, of course. Talking about.
• 10:46
  Water always wins. But then you say on that about
• 10:49
  it being sort of realistic, leading us to my second point
• 10:51
  because today I've been having a bit of a battle of words with my
• 10:55
  Co host from strictly come hamster Mr. Rod who Rod who?
• 10:59
  Rod Brown even. And like I was saying, I don't
• 11:04
  think from this point on, I don't think there's a moment,
• 11:08
  there are scenes as intense or panic stricken or get under my
• 11:13
  skin like the end of the walls of Mars where they were all
• 11:16
  literally desperately trying to fight to save their lives.
• 11:19
  And he was going, no, of course there's loads of intense moments
• 11:22
  after this. And and he starts reeling off,
• 11:24
  you know, Bill win well enough time and the kid under the bed
• 11:29
  in. Yeah, under the cover and listen
• 11:31
  and all these sort of moments and I'm going.
• 11:32
  But the point I was trying to make was those are all sort of
• 11:35
  fantasy, fantasy moments. They're sort of out there.
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  They're all built around science fiction concepts with sort of
• 11:42
  crazy characters. This setting is plausible with
• 11:46
  these characters on it that are plausible.
• 11:50
  This could be you and me, you and me in our workplace facing
• 11:53
  this sort of danger. And that's why I buy into this,
• 11:56
  because it feels like it's just a slight bit removed from me.
• 12:01
  Whereas, you know, I don't know, having a whole blown in me on a
• 12:04
  spaceship in the future, circling a black hole and being
• 12:07
  turned into a sideman. I can't imagine that's going to
• 12:09
  happen in my lifetime. So I'm not quite as invested in
• 12:12
  that as I am in these people. But that that's why the Rusty
• 12:15
  Davis era is so successful, because they all the scenarios.
• 12:20
  Anchored in reality. Yeah, it's anchored in, as you
• 12:22
  say, it's a workplace that you recognize on Mars.
• 12:25
  They're all things that we know. I don't think it's sustainable
• 12:29
  for Doctor Who to do forever, which is why he left and why,
• 12:35
  you know, Moffett had to come in and do something different and
• 12:38
  and he saw it like RTD sort of taking it back with Ruby Rd.,
• 12:43
  But he's saying that it is going to be fantastical as well, but.
• 12:47
  Moffett lent into all that sort of fairy tale stuff and then he
• 12:50
  will lent into sort of the more gothic Y stuff with Capaldi, but
• 12:54
  it was all sort of fantasy base. Then Chibbers came in and he
• 12:57
  tried to make it very naturalistic, but without Rusty
• 13:00
  Davis's ability to sort of bring the melodramatic that makes it
• 13:04
  really sort of entertaining to watch.
• 13:07
  So it was all very subtle and if you like subtle TV then you're
• 13:10
  going to find a lot to enjoy in Chibnall's time.
• 13:12
  But if you're looking for sort of big soap, you know, and big,
• 13:15
  big memorable characters and you're not really going to find
• 13:18
  that sort of thing. So it's kind of nice that he's
• 13:20
  had this, what has it been 12 year gap between R2D1 and RTD
• 13:24
  two and I think we're we're ready for it again.
• 13:28
  Yeah, I I would. I thought I was ready for it
• 13:32
  again. I'm a bit unsure after seeing
• 13:34
  Ruby Rd. No, just about it being.
• 13:37
  I don't want to see that become that domestic again.
• 13:40
  I want to see. I want to see Shitty go off for
• 13:43
  this. Disney money to the stars, to
• 13:45
  the fantasy worlds and all the other places.
• 13:48
  You know, we have only seen one episode.
• 13:49
  I know, I know. She's a Doctor Who Faz, man.
• 13:53
  I can make the opinion in 60 fucking minutes when there's
• 13:58
  another 12 hours or something come in.
• 14:00
  Yeah, I'm not. I'm not ringing the closer bell
• 14:04
  yet. OK.
• 14:05
  Please. Yeah.
• 14:06
  Well, please just keep the faith, all right?
• 14:08
  Yeah. I mean, I love last year.
• 14:11
  Last year was a great year for Dub C.
• 14:13
  Well, look, before we go into bought some Mars, Luke, can I
• 14:15
  just ask you what seismic event has occurred since the last time
• 14:21
  we recorded a commentary together?
• 14:25
  Oh, let me think is we, yeah, we went to East Hagbul.
• 14:31
  Oh my God, thank God, I'm glad you said that.
• 14:33
  I thought you weren't going to mention it.
• 14:35
  The only reason I brought it up is because I want you to now
• 14:38
  tell all the listeners the fantastic story about you being
• 14:42
  shown to your room. Oh, OK, well, this.
• 14:45
  This. Yeah.
• 14:45
  Sorry. This was an old ball, wasn't it?
• 14:48
  So we get. It wasn't planned by me, I
• 14:50
  promise. We've gone to Devil's Hump,
• 14:53
  Joe's to this thing, and then we've come back and we're we're
• 14:57
  checking into our hotel and the woman goes, yeah, you're in that
• 15:00
  room there. So I walk down, I turn the door
• 15:03
  handle. It's locked, I think.
• 15:05
  Oh, God, she's she doesn't give me the key to which about 3
• 15:09
  seconds later, an angry, topless, bald man walks out of
• 15:13
  the room. What are you doing?
• 15:16
  To which we've now fondly named him Nick Briggs.
• 15:21
  Was it Nick Briggs? There's a slight possibility it
• 15:24
  could have been Nick Briggs. It didn't sound like a darling,
• 15:27
  so I'm not sure. Turns out it was all well,
• 15:31
  actually, I was actually quite scared for about two minutes
• 15:34
  thinking because I booked a twin room, I'd booked a twin room.
• 15:38
  So I was actually quite scared that I'd done something by
• 15:41
  accident and I'd had to share this room with this man, which,
• 15:45
  by the way, wasn't Nick Briggs. But no, it all, it all worked
• 15:50
  out well. I got my room.
• 15:52
  I'm not. Very excited because I figured
• 15:54
  that you were going to come in and sleep with me and Mark
• 15:56
  because you were scared. Yeah, but that was that was a
• 15:58
  very real option for for two minutes I wouldn't.
• 16:01
  I wouldn't say I slept well though.
• 16:02
  The Old Bone pops off till after on a Saturday night.
• 16:07
  There's only two pubs. I won't go into the details
• 16:10
  again. You can listen to our On the
• 16:12
  Spot episode about this, but you know, I was being spooked by
• 16:15
  ghosts in my room, hiding my mobile phone.
• 16:18
  It was all going down in that. Old born's a a crazy place.
• 16:22
  And you know, Luke was even denied a sausage.
• 16:24
  He's. He's he's telling the truth,
• 16:28
  ladies and gentlemen. He was presented with his
• 16:30
  breakfast and then he went to the fella.
• 16:34
  You haven't given me a sausage. Well, everyone else got their
• 16:39
  sausage. I didn't get mine that.
• 16:41
  Was a good sausage as well. Honestly, sausage is my
• 16:44
  favorite. Really.
• 16:47
  Really OK. Well, let's go into the water,
• 16:52
  Mars. But I did just want to bring
• 16:54
  that up. It was a fabulous way.
• 16:55
  How glorious to meet you. You know, you sometimes you can
• 16:57
  meet people that you podcast with you.
• 16:59
  Now it's just the most awful experience or there's no
• 17:01
  rapport. Honestly, we was up to playing
• 17:04
  strictly Come Hamster 11:00 at night, determining which was the
• 17:10
  best seasons, companions. Doctors.
• 17:11
  I mean the conversation. Flowed.
• 17:14
  I remember at one point we talked about Doctor Who for so
• 17:17
  many hours that I think I said should we like maybe talk about
• 17:22
  our lives, maybe get to and I don't know who it was.
• 17:27
  One of us was just like, well, no, because that's what everyone
• 17:30
  else is for. Boring people in our lives.
• 17:34
  We're we're we're talking about Doctor Who.
• 17:37
  Besides which we go one last thing.
• 17:39
  We came away from that weekend, right?
• 17:41
  And Dylan Reese, the honestly, the Inquirer of the Doctor Who,
• 17:46
  You know, blastering gossip everywhere.
• 17:49
  I mean, he told us so many scandalous rumours about Doctor
• 17:52
  Who people, My offer thinks it's all true.
• 17:55
  Yeah, well, I mean, if no smoke with that fire, no smoke without
• 17:59
  fire. Yeah, but who does he hang out
• 18:01
  with though? Have you seen them police box on
• 18:05
  the time? That's where's he getting these
• 18:06
  rumours from. Oh, I don't know.
• 18:09
  But what did in in the in the clothing hoof I'll never forget.
• 18:15
  Let's watch the water tomorrow, shall we?
• 18:17
  Before we get in any trouble, what would you go to count us
• 18:20
  in, Luke? Well, there.
• 18:22
  Oh, do we start five or three? Let's go 5.
• 18:25
  You make up your own mind. T -, 5 432 what?
• 18:34
  Oh, I'll get an interference. Oh no, wait, that's deliberate.
• 18:38
  So it's the it's. Yeah.
• 18:42
  I mean, we're going straight in on Adelaide Brooke, aren't we?
• 18:46
  She is such a good hook for this hour.
• 18:50
  She's such a good character. And she really.
• 18:54
  Lindsay Duncan, isn't it? Lindsay Duncan?
• 18:56
  Really catches this character you so believe that she was the
• 19:00
  first, you know, Traveller into into space.
• 19:03
  They cast that Brie like if, if there's sort of action,
• 19:06
  excitement and horror and all of this stuff the Doctor Who does
• 19:08
  well, she brings the integrity to this, her performance.
• 19:13
  Because I think that's it. She brings integrity.
• 19:15
  That you could so easily overplay.
• 19:18
  Yeah, and. She's really restrained
• 19:21
  throughout until she's not. I remember loving this stuff as
• 19:25
  a kid as well. Like Mars.
• 19:27
  Proper look like Mars. Well, it looked gorgeous.
• 19:30
  It looked like the Mars in my mind, anyway.
• 19:33
  I mean that's look a bit like the location work from Planet of
• 19:35
  Fire if I squad my eyes. I don't.
• 19:38
  We just love when he wears that suit.
• 19:40
  Isn't that the best space suit in all of Doctor?
• 19:42
  Who I was, I know, don't don't cum on me, but I did love it.
• 19:45
  When Jody wore that suit, I was like, I thought we were going to
• 19:48
  do her era and she wasn't going to wear it.
• 19:50
  And then when she wore it in Paradox, I was so happy.
• 19:53
  Yeah, moving on from that though, isn't it the best?
• 19:55
  Isn't it? Isn't it the best space suit of
• 19:59
  Doctor Who? Yes, by and by.
• 20:02
  Or what? Maybe, maybe just because it's
• 20:03
  been on so much and so many doctors have worn it, is it from
• 20:07
  the impossible planet? Yeah, yeah.
• 20:09
  And I quite like that red one. That's a slight variation of it
• 20:11
  in 42. Oh, I did say I would say this,
• 20:15
  but there's the fella from Neighbours.
• 20:17
  There was it Stephen Duncan, someone done.
• 20:19
  Peter Duncan from Neighbours. I'll say that for my mark.
• 20:22
  He's in. He's in Queer as Folk as well,
• 20:24
  isn't he? Oh, yeah, he was, yeah.
• 20:27
  In fact, you know what? He's still hot here.
• 20:29
  He did come back in Neighbours for the finale.
• 20:32
  What was the finale? Yeah, I don't know why I say it
• 20:35
  like that. It's funny, isn't it?
• 20:38
  I've come very intellectual on this podcast and I thought we
• 20:42
  got he aged so much from this to that I couldn't believe.
• 20:44
  It his character on Adelaide Brooke and that secret unspoken
• 20:51
  treachery and that is a master class in how to use no words to
• 20:56
  tell 2 characters having this deep, deep.
• 21:00
  All the work yourself. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 21:03
  Well, and it's it's the one line thing.
• 21:05
  It's the same thing the fella ad in the Impossible Planet.
• 21:07
  When they say to him I always pull this one out, they say to
• 21:10
  him, Did your wife and forgive you?
• 21:11
  Let me tell you, she never did. And the line in this one is you
• 21:15
  never could forgive me, could you?
• 21:17
  Just as he kills himself. And they're like, what?
• 21:20
  What was? It it's the same character,
• 21:23
  isn't it like bait on the page? But oh God, it works.
• 21:27
  It works so much. What?
• 21:29
  And they save it for the moment of his death as well.
• 21:31
  It's like a high drama. Yeah.
• 21:34
  Oh fabulous. Can we please talk about the the
• 21:37
  gadget robot? OK.
• 21:39
  Yeah, go for it. Yeah.
• 21:40
  Well, no, because we're talking with Dylan Reese earlier and he
• 21:42
  don't like it. I thought the point was it was
• 21:44
  supposed to be a bit sort of makeshift.
• 21:47
  Yeah, I think you've got this gorgeous, glossy basically
• 21:50
  Doctor Who episode, and the one thing that reminds you it's
• 21:52
  Doctor Who is a shit little Rover.
• 21:54
  But they they know it's shit, they've said it's shit and you
• 21:59
  just want to enjoy it. I think it's fine.
• 22:02
  And as you said, you made a point on the chart of that's
• 22:06
  that's a proper kiddie thing in in an episode that's actually
• 22:10
  quite adult and dark with both its themes and the monsters and
• 22:14
  everything else. In an episode that you know, is
• 22:17
  quite fatalistic and has scenes of like suicide in it, you've
• 22:22
  got a robot going. Gadget.
• 22:23
  Gadget. Yeah, something.
• 22:25
  Something for the kids to enjoy. Yeah.
• 22:27
  And the running around, you know, and the monsters.
• 22:30
  Russell always remembers the kids.
• 22:32
  And I'm going to listen to an anti Moffett rant.
• 22:34
  I don't think Moffett always remembers the kids.
• 22:38
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:42
  No, it's one of the things we're like it's hard to comment isn't
• 22:45
  it. It's like when you always when
• 22:47
  you comment on the the bigger audience or like the not we we
• 22:50
  actually don't know. I can only really go off what I
• 22:53
  enjoy, I. Kind of do, because I think
• 22:54
  Martha don't actually really like Doctor Who.
• 22:56
  I think technically he is a not we because you knuckle down how
• 23:00
  much he likes. It's about a third I.
• 23:02
  Think he just likes Lol award. Yeah.
• 23:05
  Who? Martha Roth.
• 23:06
  Yeah, this is fun. Yeah, he always listens to that
• 23:10
  audio. Don't he is.
• 23:11
  That what he likes. Oh my God, this woman here who
• 23:17
  plays a brilliant monster. Later, she gets a wonderfully
• 23:19
  camp scene where she's in front of the window.
• 23:23
  She's in Bad Girls. I've never seen bad.
• 23:26
  Girls. Yeah, she's one of the leads in
• 23:28
  bad girls. Is she a bad girl?
• 23:31
  She is sort of like a religious character, you know?
• 23:34
  She's a good girl. Well, she's a bad girl really,
• 23:37
  because she's in the prison. But she's a good girl.
• 23:38
  Bad girl. Oh, nice.
• 23:40
  Yeah. Oh, those carrots look lovely.
• 23:43
  I love how simple some of the like, some of the con.
• 23:48
  The choices and consequences are in this you know you get so that
• 23:53
  this horrible water zombie because you washed a carrot and
• 23:56
  had to carrot. It's the beautiful oh and this
• 23:59
  bit him changing in the background, in the blurred
• 24:02
  background. What an image that is.
• 24:04
  So great. And she's got no clue.
• 24:06
  And you'll go behind you. It's.
• 24:08
  Yeah, yeah. And it's it's not just like a
• 24:10
  little bit of it's a it looks like a proper horrible seismic
• 24:14
  change. And this is something else as
• 24:16
  well. I think RTD one does well, jump
• 24:19
  scares this bit, really turns around now and lunges her.
• 24:22
  It is so well edited because you're waiting for it, aren't
• 24:25
  you? You're the camera's sort of
• 24:26
  going in on him slowly and then he suddenly just flies around
• 24:32
  and you don't get long enough to see the make up.
• 24:34
  So it's still a bit of a What the hell was that?
• 24:37
  Yeah, and also we're like 5 minutes in and we've already got
• 24:40
  like a great monster like that is a good start.
• 24:44
  You your base is already infected.
• 24:46
  Orphan 55 does that as well, you know, but no one really likes
• 24:49
  that. I I quite think.
• 24:54
  Oh, this is where my name on the Zoom chat repetitive crash zoom
• 24:58
  on news article becomes relevant. 2059 Bomb bomb bomb
• 25:03
  20. 59 I know a lot of people that don't like that.
• 25:07
  You know that that sort of repeated crash.
• 25:10
  No, it's great. It's great.
• 25:11
  It brings the pace. I'm only 27 years old.
• 25:14
  That line always says It gives me goosebumps.
• 25:16
  Yeah. And it's great because this is
• 25:18
  one of those ones where it's sort of of the DVD age where you
• 25:20
  can pause it and have a read, You know?
• 25:22
  Yeah, someone's written that article.
• 25:25
  Yeah, yeah, someone has. So the bait, the base and
• 25:31
  everything that looks so good. Do you not think like I don't
• 25:34
  think we've had a base that looks as good probably since.
• 25:38
  Since the impossible planet. No, I mean since this.
• 25:43
  No, I think you're right. Yeah, because I watched before
• 25:45
  The Flood and all that recently, and that's a that's an
• 25:48
  atmospheric base, but it feels like a science fiction base.
• 25:51
  This feels like a a makeshift base on Mars, you know, that's
• 25:55
  been called together out of things that we've got now.
• 25:58
  Maybe if the Before the Flood one was filled with a few more,
• 26:02
  you know, good characters that might actually come to life a
• 26:05
  bit more, because I just remember Cass with the axe.
• 26:08
  That's that's my image of before the flood, yeah.
• 26:10
  But when when what you remember is somebody is deaf, then they
• 26:13
  haven't done their job well. Did she didn't die.
• 26:16
  She ducks out the way. No, no, no.
• 26:17
  But the one thing I remember about that character is she's
• 26:19
  deaf. That's it.
• 26:20
  Oh. I don't remember her as a
• 26:22
  character. I just.
• 26:23
  I thought you meant her death. Yeah, Her death.
• 26:26
  I was like she'd have died. I.
• 26:30
  Watched the wrong you know like I feel Impossible Planet and
• 26:33
  this do that really really well though the sort of the.
• 26:36
  I think they do. The workplace environment.
• 26:39
  I actually think Impossible Planet might be a bit better
• 26:41
  because it's really dirty. Yeah.
• 26:43
  You've got those horrible tables covered in tea stains and things
• 26:46
  you know we're just thrills lived in.
• 26:48
  And both of them have really terrifying monsters.
• 26:52
  Yeah, the the Beast. And the first time we saw the
• 26:55
  Aid, they're actually really scary.
• 26:58
  And these were things. I don't know if the zombies.
• 27:01
  The zombies are scary, but I think it is also just the idea
• 27:04
  of water. Endless water.
• 27:06
  You can't escape. Water is hot.
• 27:08
  Well, I I remember watching this as a kid.
• 27:10
  It was horrifying. That bit with A1 drop drops on
• 27:14
  Roman's head, I was like, I'm fucked.
• 27:17
  I cannot. I can't escape this.
• 27:20
  Well, it kind of works on 2 levels.
• 27:21
  And it works because it's as an adult you suddenly start
• 27:24
  thinking about all the sources of water around you and how
• 27:27
  easily you could be infected. And as a child it's just a
• 27:30
  fucking scary bit of make up and a terrifying monster.
• 27:35
  Yes, wonderful. So do you think the base Under
• 27:38
  Siege, you know, the Old Trout and Classic still has a place in
• 27:41
  Nuhu? Yeah, but I think it's as
• 27:43
  sparingly as it's done the RTD era.
• 27:46
  So twice in five years is probably around about right.
• 27:49
  I'll say 3 because midnight, I'd say is based on the siege as
• 27:52
  well, in a way. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there's
• 27:55
  some. There's There must be a few more
• 27:57
  in muffins that are just before the flood, but they're not
• 27:59
  immediately. Well, there's that sequence at
• 28:01
  the end of Listen where they're at the end of the universe and
• 28:04
  someone's banging on the walls. Listen's very different, though.
• 28:07
  It's it's it's not a base under siege, is it?
• 28:10
  It's playing with your conceptions of I.
• 28:12
  Suppose last Christmas. But that was dreams within
• 28:14
  dreams, so none of it was real. Yeah, they're they're not your
• 28:19
  traditional trout in base under siege, Charlie.
• 28:23
  Your boss. But what I love about this is
• 28:25
  it's taken our format, but it's just acing it better than any of
• 28:28
  those trouting based under sieges.
• 28:30
  Sorry trouting fans. Well, because it's been able to
• 28:33
  just edit all the crap out and knock it down to an hour and
• 28:37
  being given a budget. Don't you think this is great as
• 28:40
  well? The the, the design of it is so
• 28:41
  vivid with all these different domes, but then with the
• 28:43
  corridors, so like you said, loads of time to run.
• 28:47
  Loads of wooden, although 11. Little criticism.
• 28:50
  I think the running is, it doesn't look amazing.
• 28:54
  Yeah, it doesn't look funny. A bit like, I mean Daniel Craig
• 28:58
  in Skyfall, the running scenes in that, he doesn't look very
• 29:01
  good either. Oh, don't you love those
• 29:04
  controls for Gadget as well on his fingers.
• 29:07
  It just feels a bit more real, doesn't it?
• 29:09
  It's a bit more like you've got to do something.
• 29:11
  What it means at the end Ten who gets to look really impressive
• 29:15
  as the sparks flying around him and he's got the robot hands and
• 29:19
  he's doing the the key going in the door just like the robot is
• 29:24
  Yeah, wonderful. There's a problem with doing
• 29:31
  good episodes on your podcast this day, so it's so hard not to
• 29:35
  just trail off and start watching the.
• 29:40
  Well, I mean, we only ever do good ones.
• 29:41
  What are you talking about? We're just spyful.
• 29:43
  We. Oh, no, wait.
• 29:45
  We're doing Have a good one next week.
• 29:46
  Yeah. Did you know the fella who
• 29:50
  played? Is it Tark, Tarka.
• 29:53
  Tarak. He's familiar.
• 29:54
  What's he from? He's from The Sarah Jane
• 29:56
  Adventures. He.
• 29:58
  Oh, he's in the laser quest guy. Yeah, it's great.
• 30:01
  He's so funny in that he goes to Sarah Jane Smith.
• 30:04
  Are you going to attack me with your lipstick?
• 30:08
  And he gets this line. Do you remember?
• 30:10
  What do you think of this line? He goes.
• 30:11
  Let me tell you about a conscience, Miss Smith.
• 30:13
  A conscience is like a stone inside your shoe.
• 30:17
  You cannot begin to understand the relief once it's gone.
• 30:22
  It's a Gray line. I I need to rewatch Sarah Jane.
• 30:27
  You need to rewatch all of Doctor Who.
• 30:28
  If you're taking over Hamster, you need to quote all right.
• 30:31
  That's true. Do you want a confession?
• 30:33
  Do you know what I've been doing recently?
• 30:35
  I've been watching classic Doctor Who, but just random
• 30:38
  parts of episode, just like Part 2, part of the Spiders, Part 4
• 30:43
  of Periods of Oz, part one of Fear Face just randomly picking
• 30:48
  it. And you know what?
• 30:48
  I'm actually loving it. I've been doing that this week
• 30:52
  because I ain't got time to watch all of these stories for
• 30:55
  Strictly, so I'm just putting on one random episode of each
• 30:58
  story. I'm loving it.
• 31:00
  It makes you. It makes me feel like back in
• 31:02
  that age where it wasn't all readily accessible and you're
• 31:05
  just taking what you can get on the TV.
• 31:09
  You're actually manipulating away to manufacture that
• 31:12
  feeling, are you? Yeah, yeah.
• 31:14
  I've dominated as part fours next.
• 31:17
  Oh, go for it, baby. I wanted to ask you about the
• 31:21
  fights of Pompeii there, because that's where the fixed point in
• 31:24
  time really becomes a real thing.
• 31:28
  Are you Are you a big fan of the fights Pompeii?
• 31:30
  I love fights. Pompeii.
• 31:32
  Yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan of all with serious, but I even
• 31:34
  have a secret love for Doctor Storbach.
• 31:36
  No, I do. I do.
• 31:38
  Is that a bit with Martha falling in the bowl going?
• 31:43
  But the what? The idea of the fixed points in
• 31:46
  time is that what you're asking about?
• 31:48
  Well, they are just well, because I I really love this
• 31:51
  episode. I love that it takes the idea
• 31:52
  and does something with it, but I'm really not big on the first
• 31:55
  one play. It's probably my least favorite
• 31:57
  apart from Doctor's Door in series 4 and it's one of those
• 32:01
  that is absolutely fine. But none of it connects with me.
• 32:05
  I. Can see why people don't like it
• 32:06
  because it's basically 2/3 of comedy and then becomes a
• 32:08
  tragedy at the end. It's it's very like they they
• 32:12
  it's very sort of witty. You've got the first two first
• 32:14
  and then a lot of people start dying, so tonally it's all over
• 32:17
  the place. I think I generally, I generally
• 32:19
  struggle with past adventures a little bit more.
• 32:22
  But I but I do love the idea and I think the fixed point in time
• 32:26
  has come from it's an idea that means that episode set in the
• 32:32
  past don't become dramatically silly.
• 32:34
  So we've got a fixed point. We can't stop this.
• 32:37
  That's fine. Well, do you know, I had this, I
• 32:39
  had this trouble recently because I was recording The Myth
• 32:41
  Makers with David Gillespie Pratt, right.
• 32:44
  And in the in the series, one in the Aztecs, the doctors going
• 32:48
  you know you can't change history not one line and come
• 32:52
  the myth makers he's making the fucking great horse of Troy and
• 32:56
  go and get the soldiers in there quick.
• 32:57
  We need to get, you know my target is in there and course
• 33:00
  it's the massacre himself. So the classic series is all
• 33:03
  over the place where the how responsible the doctor can be in
• 33:07
  history. So what do you think is
• 33:09
  necessary? Yeah, I think it's better when
• 33:12
  the show had this reels because obviously Moffett comes along
• 33:15
  and the types of wheels will go a bit to shift which.
• 33:19
  It's whatever I want it to be, is what he says.
• 33:21
  You can sort of understand because you've always got to do
• 33:24
  something new with the show. As soon as you put reels in it,
• 33:27
  you might you got to break the reels up, fine.
• 33:29
  But it's nice to have a reason properly why it goes to Pompeii
• 33:35
  and he can't stop the volcano because the Doctor Woods.
• 33:38
  So it's nice to have some sort of reason And now to extrapolate
• 33:41
  that idea and put it to a fictional event in the future
• 33:44
  where the whole audience is going to want the Doctor to save
• 33:47
  the day and him still stick to this rule quite in a in a time
• 33:52
  span that's quite close to the fights Pompeii airing.
• 33:55
  It's such a clever move. But who determines what is a
• 33:59
  fixed point in time and what is a malleable point where you can
• 34:03
  save a few people? Well, exactly.
• 34:05
  Exactly. The writer of that episode.
• 34:09
  Well, that's if it's set in the past, then it's pretty much
• 34:14
  anything that we accept actually happened, isn't it?
• 34:17
  But if it's set in the future, then it's absolutely anything.
• 34:20
  You realize what I've done there?
• 34:21
  You know someone's going to write a book now, aren't they?
• 34:23
  These are the fixed points since how I mean.
• 34:27
  Well, yeah, like the Aztecs is for some reason fixed, and the
• 34:31
  great horse of Troy is not fixed whatsoever.
• 34:35
  I think I I think the. Fact.
• 34:37
  The fact. That when when time travel has
• 34:39
  rules like that. So you know, I have a bit of
• 34:41
  issues come The Big Bang where we're popping about and
• 34:44
  Christmas Carol where we're rewriting people's lives.
• 34:46
  I I have issues with all of that.
• 34:48
  The Big Bang, though, because it did hear you criticize that the
• 34:50
  other day. The Big Bang is like there is a
• 34:54
  good explanation, which is the the the eye of the storm and all
• 34:59
  the rules of the universe have broken down because the universe
• 35:01
  has been destroyed in that one occasion.
• 35:04
  It's fine. And it is just such a confident
• 35:07
  episode that basically rides it anyway.
• 35:09
  Yeah, when you've got like, the Wedding, The River Song, don't
• 35:12
  wince. When you've got The Wedding, The
• 35:14
  River Song and it's like, Oh well, I've changed the fixed
• 35:17
  point and fixed points can be changed.
• 35:20
  It's all a bit like. And so.
• 35:22
  But that's why I get to the point where like can we just
• 35:23
  simplify this again please to one rule?
• 35:26
  Yeah, I do like having reels. Also, making this destruction a
• 35:29
  fixed point makes the disaster feel really grand and and a
• 35:34
  proper event. It sells it.
• 35:36
  And it and it brings the dilemma of the Doctor having to step
• 35:39
  back and because he could probably solve this now at this
• 35:42
  point. Yeah.
• 35:44
  You know, and it's the point where everything's gone to shit
• 35:47
  and all these people he's got to know are on death's door and he
• 35:50
  just goes fuck this shit. I'm going back.
• 35:55
  What's the line again? The laws of time are mine.
• 35:59
  And they will obey me. Oh, well, that's a great oh,
• 36:02
  look at that. She looks ghastly.
• 36:04
  Yes. That all that blisters around
• 36:07
  her mouth. I mean, that's about as far as
• 36:09
  you can go, don't you think? For the kids.
• 36:11
  Yeah. So go on, tell us then, because
• 36:13
  I've definitely seen this confidential as well.
• 36:15
  But obviously there's makeup around the mouth, but then
• 36:17
  there's water coming out the mouth, so surely that should be
• 36:19
  washing the makeup off. So how did they do that?
• 36:21
  Well, so they had the the fella that was decided.
• 36:24
  The look of it gave them three different looks and there was
• 36:27
  one that was where they would add no hair.
• 36:30
  And it looks so horrific. It was like hellraiser or
• 36:33
  something like that. Freddy Krueger, Nightmare on Elm
• 36:35
  Street and Russell Davis went we can't put that on at 6:30 at
• 36:38
  night. So you know what?
• 36:39
  That might have worked less well.
• 36:41
  Anyway, there's something about and basically being human but
• 36:45
  cracked and water coming out of the.
• 36:48
  Cracks. Well, Russell said that he kind
• 36:50
  of wants to crack look, because I love that look where he's just
• 36:53
  plumping the water over it in the distance.
• 36:56
  It's like a sort of baptism of zombies.
• 36:59
  Horrible. He wanted to crack lips and all
• 37:02
  of that to suggest some sort of fishing had taken place like
• 37:05
  there was radiation involved which is why the why the mouse
• 37:08
  for all sort of crack like that. But they, they basically had a
• 37:11
  test run of how to, because originally the water was all
• 37:15
  supposed to come down the heads, be running down their faces all
• 37:18
  the time. And you see them doing this test
• 37:21
  run with Julie Gardner there, Rossi, Davis, everybody.
• 37:23
  And they're all sort of in fits of laughter because the poor
• 37:26
  actors like blinking the whole time.
• 37:29
  And he's going, we're never going to get a shot.
• 37:31
  So then that's when they decided to make the prosthetic of the
• 37:35
  mouth and then have the tube come down their faces and out
• 37:39
  the prosthetic. It's really clever the way they
• 37:42
  do it, and they sort of test it in different ways.
• 37:45
  So it starts off with this tiny dribble and rust.
• 37:47
  David goes, oh, give it a bit more welly and then Graham Arbor
• 37:50
  goes, Come on, full power, this goes.
• 37:55
  There is a shot in this though. When there are like the roof on
• 37:58
  it, it's like a fucking fire hose coming out of the mouth.
• 38:01
  I've had a night. You know what, I had a weekend
• 38:04
  packed full of Sambuca where I looked a bit like that once, you
• 38:07
  know, oh, that bit there where the water smacks against the
• 38:11
  window and David Tennant sort of pulls away.
• 38:13
  That's a great visceral shock as well.
• 38:16
  Do you know what else makes them be scary when they run?
• 38:19
  Have you ever seen World War Z the film?
• 38:22
  No. It was the first zombie film I
• 38:24
  ever saw with the zombie Sprint, and I mean Sprint.
• 38:28
  And I thought, why has no one ever done that before?
• 38:30
  Because they are terrified, because they're slow walking
• 38:33
  zombies. Still, you know, fairly scary,
• 38:35
  but when you can't bloody out run them.
• 38:38
  This woman here, look at her. She's having great fun up
• 38:41
  against that window. Yeah, I've seen some girls like
• 38:44
  that on I. Bet you have offer a few drinks.
• 38:50
  I do like though the fact that they they can be look because
• 38:54
  the face is so scary when they're just still and staring
• 38:57
  it's really really creepy. So them just looking at the
• 39:01
  doctor in Adelaide there and they're sort of like puzzling it
• 39:04
  out, aren't? They, yeah.
• 39:05
  How's it going to get? Here.
• 39:06
  It's the sort of you're unsure whether they could just break
• 39:11
  the glass in an instant. Oh, it's so horrible.
• 39:15
  It's so that's disturbing for me.
• 39:17
  I think such a terrible threat, like joined with the Doctor's
• 39:22
  constant inaction, makes this such a gripping watch.
• 39:26
  Like, I don't think it would be so gripping or so captivating if
• 39:29
  the Doctor was actually trying to fight this, but it's because
• 39:32
  you know he's he's going to leave.
• 39:34
  But then that's marriage with his relationship with Adelaide
• 39:38
  throughout this where she's starting to figure out what he's
• 39:41
  about and what he knows and all of this.
• 39:43
  And then they have that wonderful sequence where he's in
• 39:47
  the air lock on the screen and she basically says, she starts
• 39:51
  begging him. She says please help us out of
• 39:54
  this if you know we're going to die or that.
• 39:56
  And he's going, I can't, I can't, I can't.
• 39:58
  And then she just goes. Well damn you then, and lets him
• 40:01
  go. It's such a great relationship
• 40:03
  and I I like the honesty of it, you know?
• 40:05
  Yeah, and you know, you know that on any other day Adelaide
• 40:08
  would be a companion, but they on this day, On this date, she
• 40:13
  is not lucky. This is the day she dies.
• 40:17
  Oh, I love this with the robot. Like a Segway in it.
• 40:22
  So this. Do you know what this reminds me
• 40:24
  of them Cars and vengeance on Varos that.
• 40:28
  Just it's going a bit faster than that, Luke.
• 40:30
  But. I do look at it, even when it's
• 40:33
  going really quick. I didn't look at it.
• 40:35
  And it's got look, you could probably outrun that.
• 40:38
  Do you remember when Bessie had flames like that in Battlefield?
• 40:44
  Look, Adelaide's getting into this now and she's got her arms
• 40:46
  around his waist. Oh, we've, I mean, we're like 20
• 40:49
  minutes and we've not even spoken it.
• 40:50
  David Turner is just phenomenal. We're not even near the end yet.
• 40:54
  He's. Just one of his best haircuts
• 40:55
  because his hair's quite short, right?
• 40:57
  But at the end, where the wind's blowing at him, he just looks so
• 41:00
  cool. Yeah, and he looks.
• 41:01
  Axon Malik. It's one of his best
• 41:03
  performances. It's one of his best.
• 41:05
  Actually, because I've just recently done series 2 and
• 41:08
  there's dreadful scenes in the Idiots Lantern, You know where
• 41:11
  he's shouting and. I'm not listening.
• 41:13
  Just awful, that's. What?
• 41:14
  I shout. Anytime you're doing a
• 41:16
  commentary on the chip? No later.
• 41:18
  That's fair enough, but he does a lot of shouting at the end of
• 41:22
  this and it just shows you how far he's come as an actor in the
• 41:24
  role. Because it's not like that.
• 41:26
  It's not intolerable like that. It's just gripping to watch.
• 41:30
  I don't know how people can't like the 10th Doctor.
• 41:34
  I mean, he's a bit nauseous. Well, yeah, but it's such a
• 41:38
  great character like it. It must come from a fact that
• 41:45
  you're a fan. And you know that people that
• 41:48
  aren't really fans are a big fan of David Tennant as the Doctor.
• 41:52
  Oh. That is huge.
• 41:53
  It's such a big part of it. That's why people don't like
• 41:55
  series two no more. It's because it was so popular
• 41:58
  with the Republic. Yeah, I think, Oh well, if
• 42:00
  everyone liked it and I'm not going.
• 42:02
  To lie what I really The one thing I never liked about the
• 42:04
  60th anniversary when people spoke about David Tennant was
• 42:08
  like, Oh yeah, and the 14th Doctor.
• 42:10
  He's so much better than the 10th Doctor.
• 42:13
  I was like, he's just the 10th Doctor with a it's just that
• 42:16
  David Tennant's literally a bit older.
• 42:18
  Even David Tennant says in an interview he goes, of course I
• 42:22
  played it exactly the same way. And then Russell Davis says it
• 42:24
  in the commentary. Why would we bring him back if
• 42:26
  we wanted him to be different from how he was?
• 42:28
  Before 3 lines isn't there. When he says that he loves Donna
• 42:31
  and stuff, that makes him ever so slightly different.
• 42:33
  I mean, I do think the performance is a little bit
• 42:35
  different, a little bit. I think he's learnt a lot in the
• 42:38
  time he's been away. Yeah, it's different.
• 42:41
  But it's not better, is it? Like there's they're just,
• 42:45
  they're different. Do you know what I like about
• 42:47
  the 10th Doctor? What I like about Rose is, and
• 42:50
  I'm going to say the word, I think they're both a pair of
• 42:52
  cunts. I knew you were going to say
• 42:54
  that I. Don't know, but I think that's
• 42:56
  so much more interesting to watch than two people that are
• 42:58
  just lovely around the universe. Well, if you notice that
• 43:02
  literally everything RT DS ever written, his main character
• 43:05
  characters are cunts like, but they're so.
• 43:08
  Gripping they're. So captivated.
• 43:10
  Like that woman at the end of it's a Sin who didn't let him
• 43:13
  see him die. Yeah, but even you've never
• 43:16
  forget her, do you? But even Richie is a is a cunt
• 43:19
  quite a lot of the time and and in Query's folk.
• 43:23
  We've flawed. Yeah, in Query's Folk you've got
• 43:26
  not Vince. You know the the main, the other
• 43:29
  one. He's a massive cunt, but Oh my
• 43:32
  God, you can't take your eyes off him.
• 43:33
  Gwen in Torchwood, she's a cunt in so he's one.
• 43:37
  Amazing. Yeah, I love forgettable as
• 43:39
  well. And then you get Chip Nor with
• 43:42
  his, I say. Clover as well.
• 43:46
  Clara's like, always doing the right thing, you know?
• 43:49
  And it's just boring. Amy's a Amy's a terrible cunt.
• 43:55
  I should like her far more than I do I.
• 43:57
  Do you like her? Because she reminds me too much
• 44:00
  of me. I think that's the problem,
• 44:02
  playing off two men against each other and all of this, yeah.
• 44:08
  So I really like, I really like the first half of Waters and
• 44:11
  Mars. But I think the second-half
• 44:13
  really goes to another level entirely.
• 44:15
  Oh. The momentum doesn't stop.
• 44:18
  Does it the? Second, the second they've had
• 44:21
  that scene in the airlock and they go right, we're getting out
• 44:23
  of here. That's when it The pace just is
• 44:26
  furious. Even it should be slow.
• 44:29
  But even the bit where he's holding his helmet, looking at
• 44:32
  everyone and it's going in slow motion and he's turning his back
• 44:35
  up there and it goes on, it's quite a quite a long shot.
• 44:39
  Oh my God, it's so powerful. Like to say a moment for Murray
• 44:42
  Gold's score in this as well, because there are so many cues
• 44:46
  in this that I love. So the bit in that slow motion
• 44:48
  bit where he's going, you know what, I love all of that.
• 44:55
  Later on, when it all the shit hits the fan, it goes, I love
• 44:59
  it. I just get so excited.
• 45:06
  Like I do think. I do actually do think his music
• 45:09
  is a lot more sophisticated than Matt Smith's time, but I don't
• 45:12
  think he's as exciting. Oh, the Series 5 stuff is as
• 45:16
  exciting. I think he loses the the
• 45:18
  excitement and sort of the zip of it goes around series seven
• 45:22
  and eight I. Think I think he gets a lot more
• 45:25
  playful in five. It's it's really fun.
• 45:27
  The music, all of that. I love it.
• 45:31
  I think it's a bit. Like the show itself, where it
• 45:33
  becomes more inconsistent but the highs are really high.
• 45:37
  Like the Shepherd's Boy is really.
• 45:40
  High. It's one thing you know though,
• 45:42
  the second shit is hitting the fan that comes in at the
• 45:49
  second-half of this as well, isn't it?
• 45:51
  And Joey's is back. We're done for another series.
• 45:54
  Amazing. He's got through The Beatles
• 45:55
  episode as well. Amazing.
• 45:58
  He's so good. Yeah, and and you know well the
• 46:02
  first part half of the episode as well as well as establishing
• 46:05
  the dilemma, the doctors in, it's establishing all those
• 46:07
  characters, it's getting us close to them.
• 46:10
  So when it when they all start dropping like flies, we feel
• 46:15
  something. Yeah, and it's it's it's shown
• 46:18
  us what life on Mars would be like.
• 46:20
  Oh, she is absolutely chilling in that red light.
• 46:24
  She comes out in a minute and starts screaming her head off.
• 46:26
  It's absolutely terrifying. Oh God.
• 46:33
  They have. They blackened out their teeth.
• 46:36
  Yeah, they haven't they. Yeah, yeah, they have.
• 46:39
  You know, all she's got to do is push the door.
• 46:41
  Breaks down. Do you know what?
• 46:43
  There's some there's some episodes of.
• 46:45
  It's quite rare, but there's episodes up to when you watch
• 46:48
  them. You go, Christ, that was good.
• 46:51
  Like that was really, you know, straight away, like a lot of
• 46:53
  episodes that you end up becoming great or your favorite
• 46:57
  actually take a few watches before you go, Oh no, that was
• 47:00
  actually really good. But there's episodes like this
• 47:02
  and episodes like Heavens and We Were Girls that where you
• 47:06
  watched them the first time around and not even on that
• 47:09
  first year and you're like, shit, I watched something
• 47:12
  absolutely amazing there. Well, I think there's a huge
• 47:15
  difference. There's a huge difference
• 47:17
  between a good episode of Doctor Who and a good episode of
• 47:20
  television. I think this is both a good
• 47:23
  episode of Doctor Who and a good episode of television.
• 47:26
  And I say, I'm not sure about where Heaven Sent Falls of
• 47:29
  Doctor Who, but it's a good episode of television.
• 47:32
  I I noticed because I came on to this podcast a on one of the old
• 47:37
  shows and I said that phrase I that was my quote about RCD
• 47:42
  makes good episodes of television, whereas Moffett
• 47:44
  makes good episodes dot C And after that you peddled it out on
• 47:47
  every podcast they ever heard. You love that crowd.
• 47:51
  What are you talking about? I am like the credit tanes.
• 47:53
  I have guests, the smart guests on, and every clever comment
• 47:57
  they make, they all absorb into me like the absorbable.
• 48:00
  August you on. I was like, there it is again,
• 48:02
  Jerry. You know, pay me Commission.
• 48:06
  I am unapologetic. I was glad I was like, Oh my
• 48:09
  God, I've actually said something on the podcast has has
• 48:12
  actually gone into someone's. Head Recently I've sort of gone
• 48:14
  down the objective, subjective channel.
• 48:18
  So objectively good television is like, clearly this is well
• 48:22
  made, well acted, well written, yeah.
• 48:25
  Subjectively good television is well, I agree.
• 48:29
  But I love it, you know, and I think there is a difference
• 48:32
  between the two. There is a difference, but how
• 48:34
  do you fall, say, if something's been made to be sort of
• 48:39
  purposely bad, so someone's gone into Make AB movie and
• 48:42
  successfully made a really fun B movie are.
• 48:45
  You talking about arachnids in the UK, Luke?
• 48:47
  Oh no, I actually wasn't talking about Doctor.
• 48:49
  Talk about something like fall from Netflix, where I think it's
• 48:52
  a very successful B movie premise, but objectively you
• 48:56
  probably say it's bad, but it succeeded in everything.
• 48:59
  I'm not quite sure how you differentiate between the two.
• 49:01
  Well then that led to Fraser Gregory, you know, the bane of
• 49:04
  my life, the formula in my side to then basically try to get me
• 49:08
  to determine what objective and subjective means, and then
• 49:11
  telling me that every definition of objective I'm making is
• 49:14
  subjective. So you basically can go into a
• 49:17
  bit of spin talking. Yeah, he is.
• 49:18
  He is right. And I do get, I do get a little
• 49:21
  bit annoyed when people do try and make a distinction or say
• 49:25
  best and favorite, you know what you really like.
• 49:29
  Yeah, just just put them in. Actually, just saying.
• 49:31
  You like it, aren't you? Oh yeah.
• 49:32
  Oh, I love this flashback to the stolen stuff.
• 49:35
  Yes. Yeah, just have a couple Cornell
• 49:37
  the dads. That's a bit, doesn't it?
• 49:41
  Yeah, I don't know. All these little people down
• 49:44
  dark alleyways meeting in the dead of night.
• 49:47
  What's that quote from Father's Day?
• 49:48
  I don't know. I'm trying to do it.
• 49:50
  No, it's two in the morning kebab shop.
• 49:53
  Yeah, the taxi home. I've never had that.
• 49:56
  I could never have a life like that.
• 49:57
  Luke, you. Did it all but.
• 50:01
  But what they're doing there is, is they're giving more credence
• 50:05
  to stuff that's already been, and I really like that.
• 50:07
  Yeah, it makes the world feel really real.
• 50:10
  Well, that was something they did brilliantly though, wasn't
• 50:12
  it? By having those invasions have
• 50:14
  one one after another, and then each one's referencing the one
• 50:18
  previous, and then you got the master in sound of Drums pulling
• 50:22
  it all into a big narrative. See, I've heard people criticize
• 50:25
  this scene because the Daleks are creating a reality bomb, so
• 50:29
  shouldn't care about Adelaide Brook.
• 50:31
  But I think that makes it even more powerful.
• 50:33
  Like they're even in a. Fucking geek.
• 50:36
  Even even in a time where the Daleks are about to destroy the
• 50:40
  whole universe, this one Dalek is still too scared.
• 50:44
  Can you watch a moving flashback like this and worry about
• 50:47
  fucking reality bombs? I I think it shows the Doctor
• 50:53
  and Dalek playing by the same cosmic rules and the
• 50:58
  subconsciously draws a parallel between them.
• 51:00
  The. Same cosmic rules.
• 51:02
  I'll nick that one as well. Yeah, take that one.
• 51:04
  Thank you. It's it's God's playing with the
• 51:06
  same porn which is Adelaide. Brooke, I'm sorry.
• 51:12
  You mean chess pieces, don't you?
• 51:14
  Sorry. This isn't Doctor Screecher.
• 51:18
  Oh, sorry I was. So.
• 51:19
  Leaving. Flashback.
• 51:21
  Yeah, And. But you know what, right As
• 51:23
  well, it really does detail quite specifically why, how her
• 51:31
  dying means that the human race then did eventually go out into
• 51:36
  the stars. You know, because that could be
• 51:38
  a bit of a hokey idea where one person is responsible for all of
• 51:41
  this. But actually, the back story of
• 51:43
  it always really well done. It's really detailed.
• 51:46
  Yeah, and we'll get to it at the end, but I think that's the only
• 51:49
  bit I struggle with is what ends up happening is a bit fudged and
• 51:55
  how and how it's. Still, I love the moment.
• 51:58
  I love the fact that Doctor Who was bold enough to show somebody
• 52:00
  committing suicide. Yeah, and even though we might
• 52:03
  talk about it like, oh, I can't believe Doctor Who did that.
• 52:06
  Doctor Who wouldn't do it now. I don't think Doctor Who would
• 52:08
  do it now. But also, I did watch this as a
• 52:10
  kid, and I didn't even buy an either did that.
• 52:12
  I was just, you know, it wasn't even a they didn't register like
• 52:17
  it was. Yeah, I remember.
• 52:18
  You were the one watching season 22 where that's torture porn and
• 52:21
  wanking off, weren't you? So wasn't blanking off.
• 52:26
  I think you were. There's a there's a lot of Perry
• 52:29
  in there. Oh, she gave a great tick wank,
• 52:33
  wouldn't she? And you think?
• 52:36
  You know, not now. We're watching the water.
• 52:42
  To Mars? Oh yeah, this is great.
• 52:44
  Look. So simple.
• 52:45
  We've got a busted water filter. So simple.
• 52:48
  That's why. Look.
• 52:49
  Yeah, again, it's it's a huge problem that is caused by a
• 52:53
  really human simple era. Just a bust water filler.
• 52:58
  Oh, it's great. It's so great, Joe.
• 53:00
  I think, I think that is rusty Davis's like.
• 53:04
  One of his best talents is he can keep it simple and
• 53:07
  understandable, but within those simple and understandable plot
• 53:11
  moves, he has complex characters.
• 53:14
  But that could fall really flat. There is something so small that
• 53:17
  could fall really flat, but he seems to know when to do the
• 53:20
  moments. It's funny, you know, we
• 53:22
  weren't, weren't so forgiven in the edge of destruction when
• 53:24
  that spring broke, of course, all that to happen.
• 53:28
  I am. I'm a big Edge of Destruction
• 53:30
  fan. You would be, wouldn't you?
• 53:32
  It's like it's like a monthly episode.
• 53:34
  Some would say it is. It is.
• 53:37
  The TARDIS? What?
• 53:38
  Did the TARDIS just create a hologram and go?
• 53:40
  You're heading towards the beginning of the Earth.
• 53:42
  It's not chimney. It melts a hologram.
• 53:44
  Fucking clock, doesn't it? Like every every episode,
• 53:47
  Chimney's make another hologram. Oh, where's a hologram?
• 53:50
  There's a doctor. Yeah, piss.
• 53:52
  So look, this is great because now there's real drama here.
• 53:55
  You've got the monsters on the move.
• 53:57
  We're going to come and kill you and Adelaide at the same time
• 53:59
  saying we're going to get out of here, Who's going to win this?
• 54:03
  Yeah, this it it it just seems doomed, doesn't it?
• 54:07
  Yeah. Is there just any part of this
• 54:13
  that isn't firing though, like on all cylinders?
• 54:16
  No, it all fires. It's just an amazing watch.
• 54:19
  It's a proper movie, isn't? It Although, can I tell you a
• 54:22
  story before we get into the, you know, furious second-half
• 54:26
  Because there was this period of time right where I was dating a
• 54:28
  Colombian model, most gorgeous man.
• 54:31
  Oh, it was beautiful. Coffee coloured skin, 6 pack
• 54:34
  smelt gorgeous. The works.
• 54:36
  I went over to Colombia and had three months out there with him
• 54:39
  under the pretence to do some charity work, which I did do.
• 54:42
  But well, I had a lot of sex as well.
• 54:43
  It was great. Anyway, where was I going with
• 54:47
  this? Oh yeah, I said to him, the best
• 54:49
  of two episode ever is Waltz and Mars, right?
• 54:51
  He's a big hot, he loves Hollywood blockbusters, you
• 54:54
  know, And he goes, well, we'll watch it while we're here.
• 54:56
  You know, I'll give you a blow in the middle, but we'll watch
• 54:58
  it and we stuck it on. We watched it.
• 55:02
  There's me absolutely loving every second of it.
• 55:04
  And. Of what that Waters and Mars.
• 55:06
  Yeah, the Mids and. Mars.
• 55:09
  Oh, that's always satisfying. And I got to again.
• 55:11
  And he went, is that really the best Doctor Who episode ever?
• 55:15
  Oh. No.
• 55:18
  Let me know. I'm afraid it is.
• 55:19
  Yeah. Look at that.
• 55:22
  Looks like they're vomiting. Yeah, that's the bit of a where
• 55:25
  it's like a whole fire hose. That shot there from the ceiling
• 55:28
  of them all, we're looking up as well.
• 55:29
  We're doing midnight again. And did you see that?
• 55:34
  The two of them holding hands, it's getting tense and two
• 55:37
  characters that we don't know are close suddenly hold hands
• 55:41
  together and I think they're holding hands till the very end.
• 55:44
  Oh yeah. Oh, I've heard someone say this
• 55:49
  would have been better, that I don't agree with this at the
• 55:52
  size, but this episode would have been better if it had the
• 55:54
  Ice Warriors in. What lumbering about this?
• 55:58
  Can you Can you imagine? That no.
• 56:02
  Oh, Doctor Who fans. Doctor fans, because they do get
• 56:05
  a reference, don't they? He says.
• 56:06
  He says about the Ice Warriors of old by the do.
• 56:09
  You know what? There are so few memorable
• 56:12
  monsters in New Who that the fact that they're chalked up a
• 56:16
  very memorable monster here. It should be celebrated and.
• 56:19
  It's still not good enough, Joe. We want the ice.
• 56:22
  We want slaw. We want Slaw right here, right
• 56:25
  now. This is all of this looks slow
• 56:27
  motion slow MO. Everyone's picking up their
• 56:30
  Power packs and things. Adelaide Brooke looks absolutely
• 56:34
  defiant. Fuck what history says.
• 56:38
  Do you know what's well, in quite a lot of pajamas, there's
• 56:40
  like one, maybe 2 problems in this.
• 56:42
  There's two problems every 20 seconds, like they just mount or
• 56:46
  like they're they're literally packing the food packs now and
• 56:49
  then. Within a minute, they get rained
• 56:51
  on by water. But you know what it does as
• 56:54
  well, which I think so many of two stories fail at, is the bit
• 56:58
  where the rocket goes up, right? And there's whole integrity and
• 57:02
  the air is being pumped out. And I'm genuinely convinced all
• 57:07
  of those people are going to die.
• 57:09
  Like I'm like how the hell can they come back to this?
• 57:11
  And he's walking away in slow motion across the sort of
• 57:14
  Martian Vista. It's the same thing that
• 57:16
  happened in Wild Blue Yonder when you're When the Doctor left
• 57:18
  with the Donna and I was like, Oh no, Donna's going to and I'll
• 57:23
  just not for long. But for like 5 seconds, I'm
• 57:25
  convinced, absolutely convinced, that they're doomed.
• 57:30
  Yeah. And then moments are everything.
• 57:32
  That is what you want in Doctor Who and you remember them.
• 57:35
  You you. When you when you watch Wildly
• 57:37
  Under again you'll you'll feel that first time buzz.
• 57:41
  Yeah, but it is. I get that.
• 57:42
  You forget the artifice of it. And I'm so used to
• 57:45
  deconstructing Doctor Who now that I'm very aware the whole
• 57:48
  thing is artificial and directed and written, but in those
• 57:50
  moments I'm there. Yeah yeah they they are special.
• 57:55
  But also that it's not a cop out ending.
• 57:57
  Like even though all this is doomed, it's earns and it
• 58:00
  changes the doctor forever. Well, for for what episode till
• 58:04
  he actually changes? But we've got to talk about that
• 58:06
  at the end what his decision? Does change you?
• 58:10
  Yeah. And as we know, there's a
• 58:11
  secret, you know, extra series, the Time Lord, Vic.
• 58:15
  I didn't explore that much, so you can tell me all about that.
• 58:17
  Yeah. All right.
• 58:18
  Did you did you explore a lot of that?
• 58:20
  I've. Got them all.
• 58:21
  Oh, you can tell me the whole. Story Even most figures I've
• 58:24
  got. I knew I could rely on you.
• 58:27
  Luke finishes, Got the books, got the comics.
• 58:29
  What do you want? What do you want?
• 58:31
  Between you and Dylan Reese, you've got every obscure thing
• 58:33
  covered. I mean, yeah, no wonder the
• 58:36
  three of us came together for Shalka.
• 58:38
  Do you know, I wonder if Rusty Davis looked at that scene in
• 58:42
  Utopia between Jack and the Doctor with a red light in and
• 58:48
  just a very powerful dialogue and just what Tenant does in
• 58:51
  both this scene and that scene? The difference is in this one,
• 58:56
  there's so much going on in the background as well that there's
• 58:59
  just that that pace and intensity.
• 59:02
  Beautifully sets up detonation, the final option.
• 59:06
  So when she makes that call at the end, when he's trying to
• 59:09
  save them, no, we are. We're going to die.
• 59:11
  Future is going to be how it's supposed to be.
• 59:14
  We absolutely understand what she's doing.
• 59:16
  I don't. Like, and let's not forget, this
• 59:19
  is the second to last David Tennant story and and he's just
• 59:25
  walking away instead of helping. Like, this is a very, very brave
• 59:28
  thing to do in pretty much every.
• 59:31
  Way even braver, I think, is the script.
• 59:36
  Having the doctor buy into his own myth at the end and say, do
• 59:40
  you know what? I'm good and I can do anything
• 59:43
  and even the laws of time can fuck off because I can.
• 59:46
  I can do whatever I want and he's punished for that.
• 59:49
  I like the reading of it, which I think was on the New to Who
• 59:52
  podcast or or maybe fight for entirety.
• 59:56
  Then it's Doctor Who, David Tennant, RTD.
• 1:00:00
  They got so big. And they've done everything they
• 1:00:03
  did when they got to Journey's end.
• 1:00:05
  And now it's like, how do you go on when you are that big?
• 1:00:09
  And this is what this is like a self reflection of that The
• 1:00:14
  Doctor is just so big that he's gone mental.
• 1:00:18
  He's got to be torn down, yeah, you know, And even at the end,
• 1:00:22
  you know his hubris when Wilf said.
• 1:00:24
  Knocking on the window going no, no, no, let me die.
• 1:00:27
  And he's like, oh, I could do so much more.
• 1:00:29
  He's fucking hubris. He's amazing.
• 1:00:32
  Such a great scene. It's such a great.
• 1:00:34
  Scene. I know I don't.
• 1:00:34
  You're not. You're invited to not like him.
• 1:00:36
  At the end of this you're invited to be a bit scared of
• 1:00:39
  him and I like that. But you know, like I think now
• 1:00:42
  in retrospect you sort of you would be put when they said
• 1:00:47
  that's a kid, I was just like, Oh yeah, it's Doctor.
• 1:00:49
  We saved the day. Because I'm sort of an older fan
• 1:00:54
  who's used to, you know, the doctor being a stalwart figure.
• 1:00:57
  I just had this really uncomfortable feeling in the pit
• 1:00:59
  of my stomach of like, this ain't going to end well.
• 1:01:02
  And I know the next one's his last story, you know?
• 1:01:05
  That's that's the difference between the the challenge reader
• 1:01:08
  and the other one, because I think it's enjoyable for both,
• 1:01:10
  yeah. Oh, this is it now the water's
• 1:01:13
  coming in. Yeah, see, I I think the Russian
• 1:01:18
  woman and Roman get the two worst ones.
• 1:01:21
  Well, they have to kill people as well.
• 1:01:23
  I think at this point for us to for it to feel really dangerous,
• 1:01:27
  see, that's great because there's so much water coming in.
• 1:01:29
  You're like, how does he not get wet there?
• 1:01:32
  Food packs gone. I mean, the situation just keeps
• 1:01:34
  getting more and more depressive and the doctor's doing the
• 1:01:37
  unthinkable. He's walking away and he.
• 1:01:40
  And he noticed how? Every single one die horribly.
• 1:01:44
  How Harper directs it is you've got everyone talking over each
• 1:01:48
  other really fast, really panicked, so there's this real
• 1:01:52
  sense of just madness going on. Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Oh shit, this bit was Steffi, so she's cut off from everybody.
• 1:02:00
  There's a shower of rain coming through the middle of the room.
• 1:02:03
  She's cut off from everybody, so she has to go into that room
• 1:02:05
  and. Then she puts on a video message
• 1:02:09
  that was So what happened at the beginning?
• 1:02:12
  What would you put on if it was you about to die?
• 1:02:15
  Rings of Akaten. Wonderful.
• 1:02:25
  I'll put on the flux. 6 hours of it.
• 1:02:33
  Oh dear. Oh, I might have to put think
• 1:02:34
  I'll put on my other half, but you never know.
• 1:02:36
  It might have pissed me off that day.
• 1:02:37
  No. It rings him back and.
• 1:02:40
  Said oh, there's shot of him coming out the door as well.
• 1:02:44
  Like he's made his choice. He's made.
• 1:02:45
  The most important leaf in the human history, That rag tire on
• 1:02:51
  my rag kids. Yeah, I can see that, Yeah.
• 1:02:57
  But no, this is this is just such a lovely scene.
• 1:03:02
  Yeah, and you know, there are similar moments in The
• 1:03:06
  Impossible Planet. You know the bit where Scooty
• 1:03:09
  dies when she sees him out? Out on the Yeah, What do you
• 1:03:14
  call it? Yeah, just out in space.
• 1:03:17
  You know, through the window. They're bathing in the black
• 1:03:20
  sun. Crazy sort of memorable deaths,
• 1:03:23
  but terrifying. There's something about
• 1:03:25
  connecting with like an international person as well,
• 1:03:30
  like that, that extra bit of connection.
• 1:03:33
  And you're right. Well, you said earlier you never
• 1:03:35
  see the transformations happen. It's always either through glass
• 1:03:39
  or through water. But it looks horrible.
• 1:03:41
  Well, because I don't think anything they show us could be
• 1:03:44
  worse than our imagination. I don't know.
• 1:03:46
  Have you seen the empty child transformation?
• 1:03:49
  That's pretty horrific. Oh, there she is now.
• 1:03:56
  Battered, scarred zombie fight. Oh yes, that's right.
• 1:04:00
  Yeah, he's preparing the rocket for them to escape.
• 1:04:04
  I mean, oh look, look at this. The rocket jets going up I.
• 1:04:10
  Mean this looks pretty. Big budget, don't you think?
• 1:04:12
  I know some of the CGI? Yeah.
• 1:04:13
  This looks great. This looks like a movie.
• 1:04:16
  This generally looks like a movie.
• 1:04:17
  And that bit in a minute when it all blows up and he goes flying
• 1:04:20
  in slow motion. Honestly David Tennant dive oh
• 1:04:24
  it's the one draw that that was the point where.
• 1:04:29
  We get the neighbours moment where the woman goes, don't
• 1:04:36
  worry, helps a bit much. That's why I don't axe.
• 1:04:40
  And also, you wouldn't strike him as someone that would be
• 1:04:44
  confident enough to just like accept death you.
• 1:04:47
  The way this character has been played so far, it's been a
• 1:04:49
  slight bit of like a coward. And this is another one of our
• 1:04:52
  CDs, sort of turning his characters and just making you
• 1:04:55
  feel a bit more for them and fleshing them out slightly by
• 1:04:59
  giving them a choice. By giving them a choice of how
• 1:05:01
  to die. As well.
• 1:05:03
  Oh, that's great. With her coming in the shuttle,
• 1:05:06
  yeah, and just a little splash of water over him.
• 1:05:08
  He starts transforming straight away.
• 1:05:11
  And he's got Do you ever, do you ever?
• 1:05:13
  Transform with a little splash of water over you.
• 1:05:15
  It's never a little splash of water.
• 1:05:17
  There he is. It's like a wave.
• 1:05:23
  Wave. Here's that great line.
• 1:05:26
  You you never could forgive me, could you?
• 1:05:28
  And then he goes. See you later.
• 1:05:32
  It's great. And then the explosion is wolf.
• 1:05:37
  You ever seen an explosion like that, Luke?
• 1:05:41
  Yes, See you later. Oh, it's great.
• 1:05:46
  What is? That.
• 1:05:47
  Between them. But they love us.
• 1:05:49
  You don't want to portray her. Do you know I've genuine the
• 1:05:52
  next but so I'm reading The Church on Ruby Rd. at the
• 1:05:55
  moment. But genuinely my next book that
• 1:05:57
  I'm going to read is the Waters and Mars target novel, which
• 1:05:59
  I've got in my bedside. My God.
• 1:06:01
  Lou, should we do it as a book club?
• 1:06:03
  Oh, you could say it's a book club, yeah.
• 1:06:04
  Take some notes, we'll do it. I haven't.
• 1:06:06
  I haven't covered. It yet I I want to see if.
• 1:06:09
  What else? I'll bring this out as a double
• 1:06:11
  bill. It's good.
• 1:06:15
  The set is blown to shit. There's cork flying flames
• 1:06:19
  everywhere. I'm not sure it'll be able to
• 1:06:21
  match the TV though, just because the music, the pace, the
• 1:06:26
  energy, you do the. Music in this scene now oh.
• 1:06:33
  And these quotes do not just get goosebumps when all these quotes
• 1:06:38
  come and it's the Doctor making a decision.
• 1:06:42
  And I think he gets one of his best line readings in a minute
• 1:06:44
  when he goes they died, they all died.
• 1:06:47
  He sucks. So on the Edge of Hysteria
• 1:06:51
  isn't. It.
• 1:06:51
  Do you know where that leaves me?
• 1:06:53
  Yeah, but they died. The Time Lords, all of them.
• 1:06:57
  They died. But this is it.
• 1:07:00
  He's followed the rules for the whole like 40 minutes and now
• 1:07:03
  it's. Pulling together the whole era,
• 1:07:05
  doesn't it? Yeah.
• 1:07:07
  It's it's like he's so fed up with being on the straight and
• 1:07:10
  narrow, he's literally leaped out of the script himself.
• 1:07:13
  I just wrote the ending. He's just rewrote the ending
• 1:07:16
  because he's so annoyed. With the mafia really, isn't it?
• 1:07:20
  I'm not having this ending. Yeah, it's like the doctor's
• 1:07:23
  just gone, No and just ripped off all the rules.
• 1:07:26
  And he's so fucking competent. The second he comes in, he seals
• 1:07:30
  off the air breach. He's going what have we got?
• 1:07:33
  He's looking around at everything.
• 1:07:35
  He's just, I don't know what Rusty has a way of just making
• 1:07:38
  him so powerful. Yeah, let's start and tell him
• 1:07:42
  himself. Like, let's not underestimate.
• 1:07:44
  He's fucking amazed in these scenes.
• 1:07:47
  He's crazy and manic. He looks immensely deranged.
• 1:07:51
  He. Does 3 knocks is all you're
• 1:07:53
  getting? Which was such a little cock
• 1:07:58
  tease at the time, wasn't it? Oh my God, four knocks.
• 1:08:01
  Have we had that bit of music yet?
• 1:08:08
  But you know what the really beautiful, simple thing is here?
• 1:08:11
  The doctors saving. Everyone is saving the day.
• 1:08:14
  And yet it feels wrong. Yes, that's what's so good about
• 1:08:19
  it. Yeah.
• 1:08:19
  And the the you've you've bought into the episode so much now
• 1:08:24
  that it's made you feel that. This, under any other
• 1:08:27
  circumstances, would be a huge triumph.
• 1:08:30
  Yeah, yeah, this is almost like the Fleshing Stone ending when
• 1:08:33
  he defeats the Weeping Angels, except that is a victory and
• 1:08:36
  this is a loss. Yeah, and he's just like, but he
• 1:08:43
  even says as well he's where I I realise he's crossing a line was
• 1:08:47
  when he went, he says to Adelaide.
• 1:08:48
  Don't make me stop you as well. Yeah, he's threatening people,
• 1:08:53
  you know. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:56
  I'm going. That's me coming on strictly
• 1:09:01
  come. Hamster.
• 1:09:03
  Wow, you. Of course you will always look
• 1:09:04
  how cute you are. This bit here.
• 1:09:07
  Now they're all in front of the ice.
• 1:09:08
  The ice is cracking. They're all screaming.
• 1:09:11
  It feels like it's gone to a hell of a handbasket.
• 1:09:14
  Luke. Can you imagine this with ice,
• 1:09:15
  Boris? Lumbering about?
• 1:09:20
  Oh no. Every shit.
• 1:09:32
  What only is Atom plants. I've got a funny robot gadget.
• 1:09:36
  Gadget and I love it with the him, the robot screaming across
• 1:09:43
  Mars. It's brilliant.
• 1:09:46
  So how does. Because the robot goes through
• 1:09:50
  water in a second, so then it goes into the tireless and then
• 1:09:53
  it goes to Earth. So how does how do we stop the
• 1:09:56
  pollution get into Earth? Because it literally, the gadget
• 1:09:59
  literally drives through water. Now I'm going with that Mars
• 1:10:05
  weird atmosphere, whatever, like just takes the water off it.
• 1:10:09
  You know he's going really quick across the surface.
• 1:10:11
  All the water's gone off the robot by the time, even though
• 1:10:14
  I. Can't say I've ever thought
• 1:10:15
  about it too much. Have.
• 1:10:16
  You not? Oh, so that must be the way my
• 1:10:19
  brain works. But I see him jive through water
• 1:10:21
  and then he's just chilling in the snow on earth in a bit.
• 1:10:24
  And I'm like, but he's got water on him.
• 1:10:26
  He's. Got the water to earth.
• 1:10:28
  I do love the bit. After all of this, he does this
• 1:10:30
  robot. He just goes.
• 1:10:32
  The 2nd Doctor just leaves him there.
• 1:10:35
  Oh, there's a story there. Someone fires the gadget robots.
• 1:10:38
  No, there's a story there. I'm.
• 1:10:40
  Telling you, oh, get where's Dylan Reece?
• 1:10:42
  Where's Big Finish? Come on if they, If they.
• 1:10:46
  Did a Barry base one boxer they could.
• 1:10:49
  Scream in his head off. We could have a whole episode
• 1:10:52
  around Gadget. Oh, he could.
• 1:10:54
  He could become a detective. We could.
• 1:10:56
  The Big Finish story Inspector Gadget as can see that already
• 1:11:00
  by Lisa McMullen. You know what this feels?
• 1:11:04
  It feels apocalyptic, doesn't it?
• 1:11:05
  Cut because the ground is tearing, you know.
• 1:11:08
  Yeah. It's like, it's like a
• 1:11:10
  earthquakes going off. Oh, it's marvellous And you're
• 1:11:15
  right, like because we're what listen to us without the music.
• 1:11:18
  It really does add something, the music to the last 10
• 1:11:21
  minutes. It's the music combined with
• 1:11:23
  tenants. There's enough for one as well.
• 1:11:32
  How does Gadget get up the step in the TARDIS?
• 1:11:34
  Never mind Luke. Don't worry about it.
• 1:11:36
  Just enjoy the show. I can't.
• 1:11:38
  I've got to wait. Look how sexy David Tennant
• 1:11:40
  looks. Who cares?
• 1:11:41
  I'm being the voice of the list. There'll be listeners out there
• 1:11:44
  thinking, how does Gadget get up the step?
• 1:11:46
  All the listeners will be thinking is I've got a fucking
• 1:11:48
  waters and Mars on now after listening to this.
• 1:11:52
  But it doesn't matter. He's up, he's up the step and
• 1:11:55
  he's he's controlling the TARDIS.
• 1:11:56
  Look at his. Voice and that.
• 1:11:58
  Yeah. Oh my God, the smile.
• 1:12:00
  He looks terrifying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:03
  This is what's quite funny, that in in 14 episodes time we've got
• 1:12:07
  the whole universe being blown up by every monster because only
• 1:12:11
  the Doctor pilots the TARDIS, we've actually got a robot doing
• 1:12:14
  it here, catchy gadgets doing it.
• 1:12:18
  Nevermind, that's that's in the future.
• 1:12:19
  Who am I just like? Do you know they frame him well?
• 1:12:22
  So everybody came in the door and he had that blue light
• 1:12:24
  behind him. Yeah, that's shot there with the
• 1:12:27
  flames at the foreground and the light in the back, and he stood
• 1:12:31
  there like Jesus and the devil at the same time.
• 1:12:34
  It's incredible. And that is one of the best
• 1:12:37
  explosions ever in Doctor Who. The pull out of the planet and
• 1:12:40
  you can still see the gas, the the the blast cloud is great.
• 1:12:48
  Do you know what? I don't think there has been
• 1:12:52
  action directed that well since this point.
• 1:12:56
  No, I think, don't you think Doctor Who's really done an an
• 1:12:59
  action episode, it's. Because only Graham Harper can
• 1:13:03
  do it. Yeah.
• 1:13:03
  Well, I think that probably is. And he's 98 now, so he can't do
• 1:13:08
  it. No more.
• 1:13:09
  David Tennant did. A lot of his episodes are quite
• 1:13:11
  action here 42, The Lazarus Experiment this.
• 1:13:14
  They are all very action-packed episodes, whereas we don't
• 1:13:17
  really do that. Well, let's hope we do a
• 1:13:20
  shooting. It looks like he could be a good
• 1:13:22
  one. He could do it, Yeah, he could
• 1:13:23
  do. It OK, so come on in Time, Lord
• 1:13:27
  victorious, tell me about this. I think probably it's better to
• 1:13:30
  talk about that when when the episodes finished, really.
• 1:13:34
  But I I will say that like he calls himself Time, Love,
• 1:13:37
  Victorious. It's a title that's so cool,
• 1:13:40
  it's spun off this multimedia thing, but the issue with the
• 1:13:44
  whole spin off with all them 50 1000 comics and everything is
• 1:13:49
  that the time of Victorious is only for a fleeting moment.
• 1:13:52
  He doesn't get in his TARDIS at the end of this episode and
• 1:13:54
  start being almighty because Adelaide's already took him down
• 1:13:59
  with by killing herself. That's the whole point of her
• 1:14:01
  killing herself. So the whole spin off never
• 1:14:04
  really worked as an idea because you're meant to think that he
• 1:14:08
  starts becoming a crazy guard. It's a bit like, you know that
• 1:14:13
  that 500 Storey gap between Planet of Fire and Kate and
• 1:14:17
  Razzani, that didn't happen and yet we had all those error mem
• 1:14:19
  audios. You know, it's like you kind of
• 1:14:22
  just have to say, all right. This the moment right now until
• 1:14:27
  the point where she kills herself, is the time of
• 1:14:29
  Victorious, and it it's specifically the line he saves
• 1:14:33
  some little people, that's the bit where you know he's truly
• 1:14:37
  got too. Little people, who the hell are
• 1:14:40
  you to decide that? Luke Malloy He.
• 1:14:42
  Said. You're a bad actor.
• 1:14:43
  That's pretty good. Thank you.
• 1:14:44
  I don't like any small compliment, but it's only
• 1:14:50
  because her act is so good that she sells just how frightening
• 1:14:56
  he is now. Yeah, and the beauty is
• 1:15:00
  frightening by doing all the things we like the Doctor doing.
• 1:15:03
  So he saved. Sorry, he saved people.
• 1:15:06
  He's opening doors with a Sonic screwdriver.
• 1:15:09
  He he's like been making silly comments like I love snow and
• 1:15:13
  yet all these things are absolutely terrifying in this
• 1:15:15
  moment and. Yeah, and exactly.
• 1:15:18
  And we've done this so much in this era where it's all been
• 1:15:21
  celebratory snow and all of this, you know, now it's like,
• 1:15:24
  just terrifying. Yeah, now it's been turned.
• 1:15:26
  You know, you say you like Doctor Who slogans.
• 1:15:28
  You like a good sort of, you know, a Muffet slogan.
• 1:15:31
  Time Lord Victorious is wrong. That's a great slogan.
• 1:15:35
  Yeah yeah it is a great it's there's a like there's a reason
• 1:15:40
  why it became the the spin off title.
• 1:15:42
  It just. Luke I've had many people on
• 1:15:45
  this podcast, but never anybody as important as you.
• 1:15:48
  Usually I just have little people on.
• 1:15:51
  Joe, that hamster victorious is wrong.
• 1:15:57
  Oh yeah, And I do. You know what?
• 1:15:59
  Obviously they would never show her putting a gun to her head,
• 1:16:03
  but I do think it's very well done, her going into the house,
• 1:16:06
  the flash of light. Yeah, you get the idea straight
• 1:16:09
  away, but I don't see how it still inspires her daughter to
• 1:16:13
  truffle into space. That's my issue, a bit with.
• 1:16:17
  Yeah, you you've got to do a bit of rewriting yourself there.
• 1:16:20
  You sort of. You make the leap because the
• 1:16:22
  episode's so good. But there is a huge difference
• 1:16:26
  between your mum dies on Mars and your mum kills herself in
• 1:16:29
  the front room to to inspire you to go.
• 1:16:34
  You know, one thing I've noticed with Lindsay Duncan watching
• 1:16:36
  this without the sound and everything is she Graham Harper
• 1:16:41
  puts that camera right in her face throughout the entire
• 1:16:44
  episode, like close-ups. And she ain't afraid of it at
• 1:16:47
  all. You get that defiance in her
• 1:16:49
  eyes the whole time, yeah? I just love the little look she
• 1:16:52
  gives him as well. There's just a little shot
• 1:16:55
  turning around and the music here as well is terrific.
• 1:17:00
  It's like a heartbeat, sort of music playing.
• 1:17:03
  I'm just saying it. I don't think this is too far
• 1:17:07
  because the episodes aren't it. You couldn't be doing this,
• 1:17:12
  Doctor Every obviously. No, no.
• 1:17:14
  It's the episode has earned it here.
• 1:17:17
  At the same time, you just can't imagine Doctor Two doing this
• 1:17:21
  now. It's so far removed from what
• 1:17:23
  Doctor Two would do now. Yeah, I I mean, I think the line
• 1:17:28
  was crossed in the next era a couple of times beyond this.
• 1:17:34
  Yeah, I don't think this is crossed.
• 1:17:35
  I think the don't cremate me think is bloody.
• 1:17:39
  No, that's crossing a line, blowing a hole in bill and
• 1:17:45
  having the camera go through the hole.
• 1:17:47
  That's crossing a line. I see.
• 1:17:50
  I don't think the bill one is crossed the line because it's
• 1:17:52
  quite AI mean. I don't mean this horribly, but
• 1:17:55
  it's quite a comical hole, isn't it?
• 1:17:58
  We'll have we'll have two black companions.
• 1:18:00
  The first one will be a subject of an unrequired love story, and
• 1:18:04
  the other one will blow out, You know, all right.
• 1:18:08
  Yeah, but I mean Bill is a a much loved character.
• 1:18:11
  Oh, she's fabulous. That's why she didn't deserve
• 1:18:14
  that ending. But yeah, like.
• 1:18:16
  Look at Tenant. I've gone too far.
• 1:18:18
  She doesn't get that ending, though.
• 1:18:19
  She gets an ending when she gets to finger a lesbian puddle for
• 1:18:22
  the rest of her life. Weird.
• 1:18:24
  And it might be weird. Sounds great to me.
• 1:18:29
  Oh, what's that coming up? You, aren't you?
• 1:18:33
  Doesn't you look good in the snow?
• 1:18:35
  Yeah, you can see why they did it again, but like, immediately,
• 1:18:39
  because she's killed herself now, Immediately the Time Lord
• 1:18:42
  victorious is shattered. Yeah.
• 1:18:45
  Like the Doctor's been told loads of times, he needs someone
• 1:18:49
  to stop him, someone by his side, and this is the first time
• 1:18:52
  we see why because he can actually become a monster.
• 1:18:57
  So we've had Planet Earth dead where the woman said, you know
• 1:19:02
  he will not. Four Times Now we have this
• 1:19:05
  where we basically deconstructed the character and put them back
• 1:19:08
  together again in a very disturbing way, and it's come to
• 1:19:11
  the end of this and gone well, I've gone too far.
• 1:19:13
  What the Hell's going to happen now?
• 1:19:16
  Do you think people, because I know some people, really don't
• 1:19:19
  like the Specials and feel like, you know, we could have just
• 1:19:22
  gone out on Stolen Earth and Journey's End.
• 1:19:25
  Do you think that's a bit laborious or coming to the end
• 1:19:28
  of time? Or do you think these are all
• 1:19:30
  good steps and this is how it should have been done?
• 1:19:32
  I mean, why? Why do people want less Doctor
• 1:19:35
  Who, especially less RTD here with Doctor Who like this?
• 1:19:38
  That's crazy, isn't? It.
• 1:19:39
  I mean, that doesn't make sense to me.
• 1:19:41
  I think I'm not. I'm not too fussed on the next
• 1:19:44
  Doctor. It's fine.
• 1:19:45
  Pilot of the Dead is a fun romp and we've never had an Easter
• 1:19:47
  special before. I like those terrible fly
• 1:19:51
  creatures that they do. It's.
• 1:19:53
  It reminds me of the Web Planet. The Triptivols do.
• 1:19:56
  Is that what they're called? They've got names.
• 1:20:01
  Did you know this? No.
• 1:20:03
  So the the species is called the the tritivols, the tritivols
• 1:20:07
  whatever. But the actual two flies have
• 1:20:10
  got names. Let me just Google this.
• 1:20:12
  Oh no, please. What are they called?
• 1:20:15
  There will be people. Is it like, crang crang?
• 1:20:19
  Like, definitely. Oh yeah, the time started.
• 1:20:26
  I've got to turn that off. I'll get distracted.
• 1:20:29
  OK, they're called solving and prey GAT.
• 1:20:32
  Oh those are space names if ever I solving and prey.
• 1:20:36
  GAT how good's that? Now that's knowledge that is.
• 1:20:39
  The way we do role play you'll be solving.
• 1:20:42
  You'll be right. Will you tell me about Time Law
• 1:20:46
  Victorious Now, please. Oh.
• 1:20:47
  Oh, hang on, hang on. Guess what the AI was for Planet
• 1:20:51
  of the Dead? Go on, tell me.
• 1:20:54
  No guess. Oh, 85. 88.
• 1:20:58
  No. Really.
• 1:21:00
  People say they don't like that well.
• 1:21:02
  What was the AI for? What was the Marlson?
• 1:21:06
  It was. Silence.
• 1:21:17
  Sorry. Will you hurry up?
• 1:21:33
  Please. Sorry.
• 1:21:35
  Why'd you ask? I didn't have this stuff to go.
• 1:21:42
  That's very sorry. I'm looking, but we'll talk
• 1:21:44
  time. Though.
• 1:21:44
  Victorious though, it got it got pretty slated, didn't it?
• 1:21:50
  Because they just kept releasing different timelines online.
• 1:21:54
  I feel these multimedia platforms have not been an
• 1:21:57
  enormous success. So when that one came, that was
• 1:22:00
  the first one I'd ever heard of. And not just in Doctor Who, just
• 1:22:03
  in general. And I thought, oh, this is a
• 1:22:05
  great idea. Like, I'm, I'm keen for this.
• 1:22:08
  And, you know, I was into it. David Taylor was on the front of
• 1:22:11
  it and none of it matched up really.
• 1:22:15
  That was the issue with it. Like you collect all these
• 1:22:18
  separate bits and it was sort of set in the same universe, but
• 1:22:21
  none of it really links together.
• 1:22:23
  If you get them, three Big Finish stories you have like He
• 1:22:27
  Kills Me, kills Me, not Mutually assured Destruction.
• 1:22:30
  They're just generic Paul McGann stories with with Daleks.
• 1:22:33
  And then they shoved another one in there.
• 1:22:34
  That Tom. Wasn't there like a a nude
• 1:22:36
  character that everybody loved? Yeah, he was good.
• 1:22:39
  What was his name? Was it Brian nude?
• 1:22:42
  Was it Brian? Nude.
• 1:22:42
  Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
• 1:22:43
  Yeah, he was good and because he's in the audio he came to
• 1:22:46
  life a bit more. But the the general concept was
• 1:22:49
  the David Tennon straight after the Waters of Mars was so
• 1:22:53
  annoyed at death and so had such a God complex that he went to
• 1:22:58
  killed the creatures that created death which were the
• 1:23:01
  katori which are then black things that you see on the cover
• 1:23:04
  of all flesh is grass and he kills me, he kills me though
• 1:23:09
  yeah it none of it really made any sense with any of it.
• 1:23:12
  Where did the narrative go though?
• 1:23:14
  Like, where did? I mean, obviously it's got a
• 1:23:15
  lead in to the end of time. Right.
• 1:23:17
  Well, well The thing is Joe, no one knows because because they
• 1:23:21
  were because they released like 4 separate timelines on how you
• 1:23:24
  meant to read this and how you can do, how you can do it from
• 1:23:27
  different order and there was one audio do you?
• 1:23:29
  Know what? You know, you could sort this
• 1:23:31
  out. Dylan Reese?
• 1:23:33
  No, my mark. I mean, he's putting together a
• 1:23:36
  timeline of All Big Finish. I actually think I made Mark by
• 1:23:40
  some of time of Victorious and then he got so annoyed.
• 1:23:42
  Did you? Look for him Sexual favours.
• 1:23:46
  No, like he would listen to my podcast.
• 1:23:48
  It was like, OK, I'll check it out And then bought someone was
• 1:23:51
  like, I hate like. What was the best part of it
• 1:23:57
  then? The books?
• 1:23:58
  The audios? The comic strips.
• 1:24:01
  Yeah. So I think the the that first
• 1:24:03
  book by Steve Cole, that was the one that sort of got everyone
• 1:24:07
  into it and it just had David Tennant on I believe that.
• 1:24:10
  Went down quite well. That was really good.
• 1:24:12
  Don't remember anything about the second one, which is not a
• 1:24:15
  good site. Oh, I do remember the 9th doctor
• 1:24:18
  running about with a spider plant.
• 1:24:20
  They kept mentioning it. Spider plant?
• 1:24:21
  I don't know. Was he the knife doctor in The
• 1:24:23
  Second Doctor? No, that's a different book.
• 1:24:26
  That's. Oh, that was the other
• 1:24:27
  multimedia 1 doomsday. That's doomsday.
• 1:24:30
  Yeah, I. Didn't doom.
• 1:24:32
  I mean, 24 hours, I'm going to die.
• 1:24:35
  I didn't touch Doomsday because the DWM gave away a free comic
• 1:24:40
  of the first four hours of doomsday, I remember.
• 1:24:43
  I remember you reading that. It's messaging me.
• 1:24:45
  The comics were one page each and didn't make a lick of sense
• 1:24:50
  and I was like, how is this going to make anyone want?
• 1:24:52
  To he put on one. He got one of the audios, which
• 1:24:54
  had Ian Chesterton and Barbara Wright in it, and it was doomed.
• 1:24:57
  Hanging about on Cowell School. And I was like what has?
• 1:25:02
  This got to do with anything on that confused.
• 1:25:04
  Do you know what though? The first, the first McGann
• 1:25:07
  audio there was, I think He Kills me kills me.
• 1:25:09
  Not because it had brand new did it, and it was a bit like a
• 1:25:12
  western. I remember enjoying that quite a
• 1:25:15
  lot, actually. I don't remember what why I
• 1:25:19
  bought the Eagle Moss figures. I think they came with some sort
• 1:25:21
  of magazine, but you've got like David Teddon in Time Lords
• 1:25:26
  robes. Glutton for this stuff, that's
• 1:25:28
  why. You got you got the Dalek
• 1:25:30
  Emperor, the golden one with the big ball head.
• 1:25:32
  That was great. You're going to start putting
• 1:25:34
  the Luke Malloy stamp of approval on merchandise.
• 1:25:38
  But I think, I think it started and ended with the same audio.
• 1:25:43
  So on one side you had Paul McGann on a spaceship, and on
• 1:25:47
  the other side you had David Tennant on that spaceship about
• 1:25:50
  100 years later. And one of them was the very
• 1:25:52
  beginning of time, Love Victorious.
• 1:25:54
  One of them was the very end of time, love victorious again.
• 1:25:57
  It was quite hard to match up. Well then I've got three further
• 1:26:00
  questions about Time Lord Victorious for you.
• 1:26:03
  My first question is this is, do you feel as if the multimedia
• 1:26:09
  medium platform thing can actually work within Doctor Who?
• 1:26:13
  Did it work with Time Lord Victorious?
• 1:26:16
  And was Tyler Victorious a good enough idea to empower this
• 1:26:21
  thing? I think it was a good idea.
• 1:26:26
  Like it was David Tennant. It was evil Doctor.
• 1:26:29
  That is enough to sort of get you in.
• 1:26:32
  As I said, don't think it works when you watch The Waters and
• 1:26:34
  Mars and you realize it actually was just amazing.
• 1:26:37
  It's evil. It's sort of morally ambiguous.
• 1:26:39
  Yeah, yeah. We're going too far for how we
• 1:26:42
  like it. I think maybe so.
• 1:26:44
  In this time was victorious series.
• 1:26:45
  Is he going off doing whatever he wants?
• 1:26:50
  But that's it. I think that was the big flaw
• 1:26:52
  with it is that it's actually just a load of random stories.
• 1:26:57
  There's surprise that's it's just put under the same banner
• 1:27:02
  and so when you when you ask. Me.
• 1:27:03
  The question of middling Doctor Who story.
• 1:27:07
  So when you asked me the question, do I think a
• 1:27:09
  multimedia event could work on paper?
• 1:27:13
  Like yes. But actually I pick up these big
• 1:27:16
  finished box sets all the time that are meant to be under an
• 1:27:19
  arc. And that's just four hours of
• 1:27:21
  war of an audio and they don't connect.
• 1:27:24
  So maybe not like maybe it's just too hard.
• 1:27:28
  I I'm start I like, I do struggle to see why we can't
• 1:27:31
  just have a long story told over multiple audios, multiple
• 1:27:37
  things. Do you know what's the best
• 1:27:39
  version of this I've seen? Go on.
• 1:27:42
  The Rusty Davis era #1, Torchwood, Sarah Jane and Doctor
• 1:27:46
  Who. Three massive things taking
• 1:27:48
  place alongside each other, informing each other, and then
• 1:27:52
  all coming together for a massive climax in that two par
• 1:27:55
  at the end. I I genuinely agree.
• 1:27:57
  I don't really thinking we'll have a bit of that, but they
• 1:27:59
  can't do it. I think it's probably without
• 1:28:03
  because with them you've got RTD right there at the top who knows
• 1:28:06
  everything that's going on and can make decisions like that
• 1:28:09
  dead quick. That, and he's got the power to
• 1:28:12
  do that, I'm not sure you can do in multimedia when you've got so
• 1:28:15
  many different people all over the shop with different ideas.
• 1:28:18
  Maybe it's not possible, but it wasn't just the trailer for
• 1:28:23
  Doomsers Day that put me off Doomsers Day, It was also the
• 1:28:27
  fact is it. Doomsday or doomsday?
• 1:28:30
  Is it? It must be dooms.
• 1:28:33
  Good point. Well, it's a bit both in it.
• 1:28:38
  They couldn't even decide on the fucking title.
• 1:28:40
  Oh. So I'm getting confused because
• 1:28:43
  there is a there is a part of it that's 4/2 dooms this day, isn't
• 1:28:47
  there? It's not, is there?
• 1:28:50
  Is there the seven keys to dooms this day as well?
• 1:28:54
  So. And of course the the the one
• 1:28:56
  where the assignment and the dialects come together.
• 1:28:58
  That's just called dooms this day.
• 1:29:01
  I I'm going to say no, though to the to the answer because I
• 1:29:05
  think this is what you're always going to get because even big
• 1:29:07
  Finnish can't do it and there's just one company.
• 1:29:09
  You're always just going to get a load of middling stories that
• 1:29:12
  maybe have one line that might connect them to something else.
• 1:29:16
  I. Believe you're talking about
• 1:29:17
  what's the future there, Luke? Actually.
• 1:29:20
  I think middling is a bit kind. I think it can apply to quite a
• 1:29:24
  few though, I think. Everything they brought out in
• 1:29:27
  the last 10. Years.
• 1:29:28
  I did actually forget actually. The highlight of of time of
• 1:29:32
  Victorious was there was a short trips with John Coulshaw doing
• 1:29:35
  the Delgado Master and the only Master, and I think it was one
• 1:29:39
  of the first times he'd ever done it for Big Finish.
• 1:29:41
  That was exceptional. That was so good.
• 1:29:44
  There's one of the only master in like a forest.
• 1:29:47
  I know, right? But how many stories were there
• 1:29:49
  in this thing? One was good.
• 1:29:50
  Two, that's not a good average, you know?
• 1:29:56
  Fairpoint. Well, let's let's move away
• 1:30:00
  from. Let's just assume.
• 1:30:01
  Then we'll say that the one time the Time Lord Victorious worked
• 1:30:04
  was in the episode we just watched.
• 1:30:06
  Yeah, I definitely agree. And evil.
• 1:30:08
  I know it's not. You just said it's not evil, but
• 1:30:10
  you're sort of evil. Evil Doctor doesn't particularly
• 1:30:14
  work unless it's quite quick or quite fleeting.
• 1:30:18
  A moment like we we all remember the moments where the Doctor
• 1:30:21
  goes at evil, but anytime it happens over a sustained period
• 1:30:24
  of time yet he either turns into a knob or you just waiting for
• 1:30:28
  him to drop the deception. So it has to be in little
• 1:30:31
  moments. I've heard the argument that
• 1:30:34
  Stolen Earth and Journey's End was a conclusion to the era so
• 1:30:39
  climactic that everything that came after that couldn't really
• 1:30:44
  measure up to how sort of ambitious and epic that felt.
• 1:30:48
  And I do think there's some truth in there, but what I feel
• 1:30:51
  like the extra time gave them a chance to do was some really
• 1:30:54
  interesting characterisation with Tenant right up until the
• 1:30:58
  last minute. Yeah, and I.
• 1:31:00
  And even if it's harder to sort of recreate the highs, I'd still
• 1:31:06
  take it over and not have a Doctor Who for a year.
• 1:31:08
  And then it came back with Matt Smith and.
• 1:31:10
  Remember that year when we just got Doctor Mysterio?
• 1:31:13
  You know. When the end of the time came
• 1:31:15
  out, I mean, and the time loads are back, it doesn't, in
• 1:31:19
  retrospect, it doesn't feel that epic now.
• 1:31:22
  When I was there, when I was a kid, End of Time was the most
• 1:31:25
  epic thing that had ever happened.
• 1:31:28
  The Time Lords were back, David Turner was going.
• 1:31:30
  It was so exciting. And I didn't particularly think
• 1:31:35
  of it from like a structure. Like I would now like a
• 1:31:38
  structurally point of view of media and stuff, that it was
• 1:31:43
  such a feat to get all them people together in journeys and
• 1:31:46
  against the Daleks. And the biggest threat there's
• 1:31:48
  ever been that that is like as big as it could possibly get.
• 1:31:51
  No, to me it was like, Oh my God, the Time Lords are back.
• 1:31:54
  It's never been bigger than this.
• 1:31:57
  You really couldn't end David Tennant's era with Donna doing a
• 1:32:00
  bit of shorthand on Dave Ross's computer.
• 1:32:01
  I've had in a bit of a damn squid, yeah.
• 1:32:05
  But people overlook that now. I I had a real issue with that,
• 1:32:08
  even as a kid. When I figured.
• 1:32:10
  I think it's quite cute now, but.
• 1:32:12
  Yeah, that's it. I did well.
• 1:32:13
  My trouble with the end of the time was I just found the first
• 1:32:16
  episode so slow and then I just loved the second episode.
• 1:32:19
  Everything about it. Honestly, talking about this
• 1:32:23
  right now, I I want to immediately watch Planet of the
• 1:32:25
  Dead. I want to see Sophan and Pride
• 1:32:27
  got to do their thing. Well, you ain't going to do
• 1:32:31
  that. What you are going to do is tell
• 1:32:32
  me 3 fabulous things. I mean, only three.
• 1:32:36
  That's all you got. Oh yeah, I know you could have
• 1:32:37
  30. But three things about the water
• 1:32:40
  Mars that you would choose to recommend.
• 1:32:42
  I can have the entire second-half if.
• 1:32:45
  You know, yeah, go on. No.
• 1:32:46
  No, I'll say no. I'll the threat of water.
• 1:32:52
  Inescapable. Terrifying.
• 1:32:55
  Simple. And that.
• 1:32:57
  Then three things sum up the whole episode as well.
• 1:33:00
  It it's inescapable for all the crew.
• 1:33:04
  The stuff that causes it is simple.
• 1:33:06
  It's a broken water filter. It's a it's a washed carrot.
• 1:33:10
  It's all these little things that we do that ends up in this
• 1:33:13
  horrible situation with water zombies.
• 1:33:17
  We need water. It's a horrible situation that
• 1:33:21
  they're in. It feels relentless and the
• 1:33:23
  Doctor just walking away from them makes it feel so just gut
• 1:33:29
  red shit like there's no hope. And then when that gets flipped,
• 1:33:35
  the Doctor does the right thing and it all feels so wrong.
• 1:33:37
  This whole episode defies all the rules of a normal Doctor Who
• 1:33:42
  episode. It's fantastic, but that's going
• 1:33:45
  safe. Yeah, the threat.
• 1:33:47
  Water. Great.
• 1:33:49
  Good. Cool.
• 1:33:51
  I am going to choose Lindsay Duncan for my first thing.
• 1:33:54
  Because outside of all the things that make this a
• 1:33:57
  brilliant Doctor Who story is you've got an actor that's
• 1:34:00
  coming in and refusing to slum it in a Doctor Who story she's
• 1:34:04
  taking apart, which is beautifully written, and
• 1:34:08
  bringing it to the screen with such nuance.
• 1:34:11
  A character that you, you're sort of challenged to not like
• 1:34:14
  at times because she's a bit prickly, but by the end of it,
• 1:34:19
  you're absolutely on her side and against the Doctor.
• 1:34:22
  That's a hell of a journey to go with, and Lindsay Duncan is the
• 1:34:25
  one that takes you on that journey.
• 1:34:26
  The bit where she begs him to save the Doctor, to save them,
• 1:34:30
  That's where I just all of my resistance to her crumbled away,
• 1:34:34
  you know, And then she goes, no, we're going to get out of it.
• 1:34:36
  And that defiance to get out. And then the horror when she
• 1:34:40
  realizes that what the doctor's doing and the fact that he could
• 1:34:43
  be changing the whole of future history.
• 1:34:46
  Oh, she's great. So yeah, Lindsay Duncan.
• 1:34:48
  I I do think in years to come, there are a lot of strong
• 1:34:54
  actors. I won't say wasted anymore.
• 1:34:57
  I say wasted and people have a go at me.
• 1:34:59
  Are given small cameos, maybe because that's all they could
• 1:35:02
  do, but I know they could do more.
• 1:35:05
  She couldn't do any more than what she does here.
• 1:35:07
  They absolutely exploit her to the full and she's terrific.
• 1:35:12
  Yeah great great point. The my #2 would be taking the
• 1:35:19
  concept of a fixed point in time which is being created to
• 1:35:24
  basically make stories in the past make a bit more sense and
• 1:35:27
  extrapolating it to the future and mining all this drama out of
• 1:35:32
  it. It's just incredible idea and
• 1:35:36
  it's a fresh storytelling canvas for Doctor Who, which is such a
• 1:35:40
  hard thing to do to. It's so hard to create a new
• 1:35:43
  story of Doctor Who, but there's no story like this where the
• 1:35:46
  Doctor is forced by his own rules to walk away from the
• 1:35:50
  threat. And that's where all the drama
• 1:35:53
  comes from. Watching him in this situation,
• 1:35:55
  watching people die, how he reacts?
• 1:35:57
  When's he going to snap? And boy does he snap.
• 1:36:00
  And and that is just great. The fact they've managed to find
• 1:36:05
  a new idea by just using their own rules, what they've built
• 1:36:09
  up, and then they defy their own rules.
• 1:36:12
  But it's not in a way that sort of cheats it or anything like
• 1:36:14
  that. It earns because the Doctor
• 1:36:17
  fully changes into it a different character he he has to
• 1:36:22
  change to win the day and that that makes it, well, more
• 1:36:26
  dramatic. You've pointed out something in
• 1:36:30
  this episode that I've never realised before that actually
• 1:36:32
  brings a whole new layer to it. It starts off as your absolutely
• 1:36:38
  traditional Doctor Who story in just landing somewhere.
• 1:36:41
  Yeah, all right. Can't work.
• 1:36:44
  It just landed somewhere, walking out and exploring and
• 1:36:46
  then finding the base. And this is your traditional
• 1:36:48
  Doctor Who story. Somewhere along the line,
• 1:36:52
  everything that we normally do in Doctor Who as a triumph for
• 1:36:55
  the celebration is suddenly turned on it's head and the
• 1:37:01
  worst thing that could possibly happen.
• 1:37:03
  That's an extraordinary thing to do, to pull that off.
• 1:37:07
  And so I want to go and watch that last half again and be
• 1:37:09
  like, well, at what point did this story turn around?
• 1:37:12
  Like every triumphal moment, you know, horrific.
• 1:37:16
  It's it's maybe that's what you do with the extra time you've
• 1:37:19
  got with these specials you you play about with the tropes and
• 1:37:22
  you, you know, you put them in different shapes and you see
• 1:37:24
  what you can do with them. Yeah, alternatively you could
• 1:37:27
  dress up as a pirate and go and fight go and slice up 6 Sea
• 1:37:31
  Devils, but that. Sounds amazing did.
• 1:37:34
  You. See that bit where he says
• 1:37:40
  Quiet, the sea devil, but it sounds.
• 1:37:42
  Like, Oh yeah, it sounds quiet, yeah.
• 1:37:47
  Jody's being like, you know, talking at one to 100 and being
• 1:37:50
  really, you know, stupid. And he just goes.
• 1:37:57
  But no. Yeah, there is something in
• 1:37:59
  there is something in it. He's talking about saving the
• 1:38:01
  day. He's opening the door, the Sonic
• 1:38:03
  screwdriver, he's commenting on the snow, all these great quirks
• 1:38:07
  and victorious things. We used to like seeing the
• 1:38:09
  Doctor do it and yeah, it's all horrible.
• 1:38:13
  It's a bit like few. Lines like little people and
• 1:38:15
  things like this where you're like.
• 1:38:16
  Yeah, it's it's, it's midnight. Just gone even further.
• 1:38:19
  Because in midnight it's the doctor saying all the useful
• 1:38:23
  stuff that he would usually say. But in that scenario, it's just
• 1:38:27
  the wrong people. The wrong.
• 1:38:28
  People, what you did in Pompeii isn't it is he takes people away
• 1:38:32
  and saves a few people and it's absolutely considered a moment
• 1:38:36
  of triumph in that. Yeah.
• 1:38:37
  And when he says little people in this, it does.
• 1:38:40
  You do sort of reflect back on that, I think you know, is he
• 1:38:43
  thinking that? Don't make me stop you too.
• 1:38:46
  That's the bit that gets me every time.
• 1:38:47
  I'm like she's on your side, mate.
• 1:38:51
  Yeah. Oh, number three, Christ with.
• 1:38:55
  Excuse me, I didn't do #2. I thought that was your number
• 1:38:58
  two, no? That was your number two, I was
• 1:38:59
  just adding to it. It's OK.
• 1:39:03
  My #2 is I really want to talk about Murray Gold because I
• 1:39:07
  think divorced of the music as we were there.
• 1:39:10
  Of course it felt fast-paced because it moves a lick, but
• 1:39:14
  why? Boy does he have sort of
• 1:39:15
  movement to this thing? All the running scenes, you
• 1:39:19
  know, all the chaos at the end. We've done all the cues already.
• 1:39:23
  I don't think we can underestimate what Murray Go
• 1:39:26
  brought to 10 seasons of Doctor Who but certainly the first five
• 1:39:32
  seasons that he did maybe 6 where he sort of learnt in one
• 1:39:38
  and then from 2:00 to 6:00 he's just on fire.
• 1:39:40
  He's delivering 1 banging score after another.
• 1:39:42
  He's giving episodes and identity of their own.
• 1:39:46
  Think like you think of The Impossible Planet.
• 1:39:48
  You can hear that sort of mournful music when Scooty
• 1:39:51
  Miliska is flying away. You know in space and doomsday
• 1:39:55
  you can hear that bombastic music when the dark.
• 1:40:00
  Oh yeah, when they come out the sphere at the end, I.
• 1:40:04
  He he gave the show a huge identity and I think he's just
• 1:40:10
  on form and then some. In this one, he's bringing the
• 1:40:13
  drama. I absolutely love Marie Gold,
• 1:40:16
  and it is. It's sad to watch the What's the
• 1:40:19
  Boss without the music. Isn't it like it was?
• 1:40:22
  Well, we did sing a bit. At the end, watching Tenant
• 1:40:26
  there is saving the day. It's just weird.
• 1:40:29
  Without the music. You can't.
• 1:40:31
  You can't have it without there. Yeah, I always forget.
• 1:40:35
  So Family Gold on here because because we are watching it
• 1:40:38
  quietly. He's so good.
• 1:40:41
  He's so good. Look at the other ones we've
• 1:40:43
  done like we did. Love and monsters and and how he
• 1:40:48
  sort of sees ZLO into that episode but but does his own
• 1:40:52
  thing as well. You know when they're running
• 1:40:53
  away from the monster at the beginning, it's like and then
• 1:40:58
  rings of Agate in you know with all, yeah, you know it's.
• 1:41:06
  But they've all got their own identity, haven't they, those
• 1:41:08
  episodes because of the music he does.
• 1:41:11
  He does reuse cues, I think eventually, but.
• 1:41:14
  Yeah, I think he reuses cues a lot of time, but there's certain
• 1:41:20
  ones that really mind you have certain episodes like Father's
• 1:41:23
  Day, The Roses theme for Father's Day always does it.
• 1:41:30
  Doomsday, obviously. Do you know what's great?
• 1:41:33
  Is the Capaldi's theme That one? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:41:41
  I actually really like shoot his new one.
• 1:41:44
  Yeah, the one way it went when we went to the musical concert,
• 1:41:53
  Ruby Sunday's theme was so good, but that wasn't plays in the
• 1:41:58
  Christmas specials. That's safe, Yeah, Saving it for
• 1:42:01
  the new. Series, yeah, that.
• 1:42:03
  That was class at the time. I thought that was amazing on
• 1:42:06
  the night. Just just wait for the new
• 1:42:08
  series, all right? Before you make too many snap
• 1:42:11
  judges, you're not Dylan Reese. I'm excited.
• 1:42:14
  I'm excited. What's your third thing then?
• 1:42:17
  My third thing is going to be insane, David said.
• 1:42:20
  In in that in that 100 second countdown.
• 1:42:23
  Because the amount of times I've said them lines just out just
• 1:42:27
  around the house is that the laws of time are mine and they
• 1:42:30
  will obey me. So what does your?
• 1:42:32
  Girlfriend say to you when you say these things.
• 1:42:35
  She's not real, Joe. I just made her up.
• 1:42:37
  Oh fair there. I have seen some TikTok videos
• 1:42:40
  of you dancing with a girl. Is that just a friend you invite
• 1:42:43
  over to do TikTok videos with? Though she just accepts me for
• 1:42:47
  who I am, which is all you can. Ask Wow, you're Q as a button as
• 1:42:51
  well, so you know. But that performance, that he
• 1:42:56
  finds something in the Doctor that we've never seen before and
• 1:43:00
  we've been watching them for three serieses, an insane manic
• 1:43:04
  screw loose. It's in the eyes it's in the
• 1:43:08
  it's in. And I love how bits of the
• 1:43:13
  filmmaker is trying to take him down a peg as well.
• 1:43:16
  Like he's he's like there's lots of time around there will obey
• 1:43:19
  me. And then an explosion goes off
• 1:43:21
  and knocks him off his feet. Like it's like the universe is
• 1:43:24
  trying to stop him in that moment.
• 1:43:26
  Doesn't he say, Oh no you don't or something?
• 1:43:29
  Like, yeah, he just keeps getting up.
• 1:43:31
  He comes up with new puns every 10 seconds on the spot.
• 1:43:34
  Try and sort it out. He's literally insane.
• 1:43:38
  He has done this before, you know, Rusty Davis.
• 1:43:40
  This trick in The Christmas Invasion where you keep David
• 1:43:44
  Tennant out of the action for a long time and then and then it's
• 1:43:48
  Wham bam in the last 10 minutes. Yeah, I suppose.
• 1:43:52
  But the emphasis is very different.
• 1:43:54
  One's heroic and one is horrific.
• 1:43:57
  Yeah, David Turner's performance is that because we just haven't
• 1:44:00
  really seen anything like that from him and and it's it's so
• 1:44:05
  energetic and it's so blood pumping.
• 1:44:07
  It's amazing. Yeah, so good.
• 1:44:09
  Well, then the last thing, and I think it is appropriate to end
• 1:44:12
  on this note because this is the last time he directed a Doctor
• 1:44:16
  Who's story. Of course, they sublime and just
• 1:44:20
  sublime him. Have you met him in person?
• 1:44:21
  No. Oh, he's so charming.
• 1:44:24
  He's just so funny. He goes to me.
• 1:44:26
  Rusty Davis has got my number. You know, I could be back as as
• 1:44:31
  he went off in his mobility school.
• 1:44:32
  Now, I'm joking. That didn't happen.
• 1:44:35
  Graham Harper, who started with Kaiser and Rosani, Revelation of
• 1:44:38
  the Daleks, The Cyberman, 2 Parter, Army of Ghosts, Doomsday
• 1:44:43
  42, Utopia. What Am I Missing?
• 1:44:48
  Unicorn and the Wasp? Stolen Earth, Journey's End, The
• 1:44:53
  Waters of Mars. I'm sure I've missed something
• 1:44:55
  in there. Yeah, it's just great.
• 1:44:58
  He's just great. All the all of them are bangers
• 1:45:01
  and they're all fast-paced. And I I always loved the story
• 1:45:04
  of just herring. And when he's on, when he's on
• 1:45:07
  set, he's just energy, Energy. More energy, more.
• 1:45:11
  Energy. More energy.
• 1:45:12
  It's great I put you it. Works.
• 1:45:14
  Graham, I'm so tired. Stop saying to me.
• 1:45:17
  It it bloody works because like, but you know.
• 1:45:22
  Honestly, I think he saved the best for last.
• 1:45:24
  I think this is his best directed Doctor Who, so it might
• 1:45:27
  not be his best Doctor Who story or his most memorable.
• 1:45:31
  I certainly think sort of the end of Doomsday is probably his
• 1:45:34
  most memorable stuff. Cato Andrasani Episode 4?
• 1:45:37
  Maybe. But in terms of assembling a
• 1:45:41
  piece of drama and putting something that starts slow and
• 1:45:48
  builds and builds and builds to, you know, unforgettable climax
• 1:45:53
  with set pieces in there with time for the actors, with
• 1:45:57
  scares, with laugh ice, it's just an amazing piece of this is
• 1:46:01
  an amazing piece of television. Fucked up to who.
• 1:46:04
  This is a great bit of television that he's put
• 1:46:06
  together. No wonder people love this at
• 1:46:08
  the time. No wonder people will flock into
• 1:46:10
  this bloody show. They had awesome directors that
• 1:46:14
  were making great telly. Yeah, no, you're right.
• 1:46:17
  And I've just found the AI for Waters of Mars.
• 1:46:21
  Do you think it was higher or lower than Fly of the Dead?
• 1:46:24
  Secret. Secretly, I wanted to be lower,
• 1:46:26
  but go on. That is a trick question.
• 1:46:28
  It's actually the same GOT. ACA Yeah, those those are high.
• 1:46:32
  It's only. So you know there is no
• 1:46:34
  difference in quality between the two.
• 1:46:36
  I think wild enough of time. Got 75, you know?
• 1:46:39
  It didn't get. Set.
• 1:46:41
  Yeah, I think. I think the orders were long
• 1:46:42
  gone by that point, actually. What were the ratings for the
• 1:46:47
  waters of Mars? 9.1 mil.
• 1:46:50
  Yeah, I think well enough of time got four and a half
• 1:46:53
  million, you know you can't. Compare the two.
• 1:46:56
  I'm actually worth nothing Time Got 85 AI.
• 1:47:01
  Oh, did it? Oh, that's quite high.
• 1:47:03
  Well done, Well done. Well enough in time.
• 1:47:05
  Although I believe the Battle of Ransgrave Kolos got 8/6.
• 1:47:09
  It. Did.
• 1:47:13
  I've got no idea. I'm finding that I'm not.
• 1:47:16
  That I know, I know, I know. Ransgrave Kolos got a higher
• 1:47:20
  racing, though. Oh yeah, that didn't surprise
• 1:47:23
  me. Season 11 did.
• 1:47:24
  Did well, didn't it? Yeah, it really will.
• 1:47:28
  Why can't can't find the they've they've hidden.
• 1:47:34
  They've hidden the part of the front sky colours they are.
• 1:47:37
  Because it's so low. Why is it not anywhere?
• 1:47:42
  000. I got 7979, this
• 1:47:47
  thedoctorwhocompanion.com says. Suddenly it got 79, which is
• 1:47:51
  fine, if a bit disappointing for a season Final A.
• 1:47:56
  Although we've all decided that it's not a finale or final or
• 1:48:00
  whatever you want to call it, but.
• 1:48:01
  It but it is, though, because it's the end of the season.
• 1:48:04
  Luke No, I've got a question for you.
• 1:48:06
  Where are we going next? Oh, you know where we're going.
• 1:48:09
  We're going, Where are we going? We're going, we're going to be
• 1:48:12
  there for 4.5 billion years. What with you and Dylan, I'm
• 1:48:16
  prepared to risk it, you know. We don't think how much.
• 1:48:19
  Bombing we could do in 4.5 billion years.
• 1:48:23
  And every room resets. The bombs are just ready to go
• 1:48:25
  again and again. Oh, I'll be your.
• 1:48:31
  Yeah well it's having said and Hell Bent is near the double,
• 1:48:34
  the double Bill you've got. Well I've got great things to
• 1:48:39
  say. You've got juicy things to say.
• 1:48:41
  I've actually, I mean I think there's it's such an interesting
• 1:48:44
  two parts as Elvin I think we'll be talking about.
• 1:48:47
  Ours so interesting to talk about.
• 1:48:48
  We'll have to start early. I mean as usual with the three
• 1:48:52
  of us, one of us is an outlier and two of us are in accord
• 1:48:56
  because that's just how it works.
• 1:48:58
  In fact, we're mind what we were pretty much on the same level.
• 1:49:01
  Yeah, mind what? We just all took an episode to
• 1:49:03
  take the piss out of each other and then.
• 1:49:06
  But I would. Say it is full of juice that's
• 1:49:09
  worth. Extracting.
• 1:49:10
  Yeah. And both of them as well, like
• 1:49:12
  Heaven sent. It's obviously very, very
• 1:49:14
  interesting and very successful in what it sets out to do.
• 1:49:18
  And then Hell Bent is so interesting from multiple
• 1:49:22
  different races. Whereas I think Heaven, Heaven
• 1:49:26
  Scent is a very interesting exercise that is just terrible.
• 1:49:31
  Doctor Who and Hell Bent is possibly the nadir of the new
• 1:49:35
  series. If we're not, we're not
• 1:49:37
  including The Wedding of River Soul.
• 1:49:40
  OK, you say wrong. Also you take the Mick out of
• 1:49:43
  Dylan for saying peak dog too. The amount of times you say this
• 1:49:46
  is the nadir of Doctor Who is just as bad.
• 1:49:50
  No, I'm worse. Would you know what what I say
• 1:49:53
  astonishing, I think. I'm not sure I said it in this
• 1:49:58
  episode. I do say it a lot.
• 1:50:00
  Astonishing. That's Doctor.
• 1:50:02
  Who? Almost as much as you talk shit,
• 1:50:04
  but not. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 1:50:08
  Well, it's been absolutely marvellous to enjoy this classic
• 1:50:12
  with you. But, you know, let's get back on
• 1:50:15
  our usual ground of being combative next time.
• 1:50:17
  Yeah, we. Need to we need to go at each
• 1:50:19
  other. Far too nice.
• 1:50:20
  You'd be probably. I'll be solving.
• 1:50:22
  Next time we'll snip away. Let's go then solving.
• 1:50:30
  Cuts it there. Perfect.