Latest / Freedom Flip / Why Most Relationships Struggle and How To Fix It - ft. Anastasia Koroleva - EP006

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Why Most Relationships Struggle and How To Fix It - ft. Anastasia Koroleva - EP006 · Freedom Flip

• 0:00
  We should have absolutely zero expectations from our romantic partner. And that's very controversial. And especially when I talk to women, I get a lot of surprised looks. But the problem with any expectation is that A, we have zero control of the outcome. And B, we're very likely to end up in disappointment.
• 0:21
  And C, the other side may not know about our expectations. As soon as we have an expectation in our head, we set ourselves up for a potential conflict or disappointment. As a human society, we tend to have expectations. But if we stop having expectations, something magical happens.
• 0:39
  What's your strongest view that may not be commonly held on the feminine masculine? I take full and complete responsibility for my husband's happiness. I literally do not have any expectation of him taking care of his happiness. I feel extremely strongly about this and I know it works. This is where I get a lot of pushback often, but through all these arguments, I only believe this more, not less. The loop.
• 1:04
  of sexual attraction works like this. Dopamine creates a spark. Oxytocin sends the message of bonding. Then dopamine fuels desire. And then oxytocin puts more fuel into that by accepting the connection.
• 1:19
  Just an interplay between dopamine and oxytocin. And the beauty is that it's not a loop. It's actually a flywheel because it grows. And this is how we end up in passionate sex, right? If this works and both parties play the game and don't have cortisol destroying that beautiful flywheel, it just works very predictably. And this is where we feel chemistry and attraction.
• 1:41
  Anastasia, thank you so much for joining. My pleasure. Always, always happy to see you too. We love to learn from you. And among many areas, you are an expert. You are truly the only person that I listen to about kids. And I say, I have so much to learn. Well, coming from you, that's huge because I listen to you when it comes to kids. But also I learn from both of you a lot. So looking forward to the conversation. So there's two areas I'm most excited about to dig into.
• 2:08
  The first is the feminine masculine. And I think that ties to then children, right? How we raise our children and that shows up as well. And I would love to hit those two. Just for context, we met Anastasia two years, three years ago, maybe from a community that we were part of. And we became very, very good friends. We have traveled to so many different places. We went to so many different events together.
• 2:30
  And Anastasia is very, very, very well known in the post-exit community. She has a great podcast called Exit Paradox, but she's only known for that part as an expert. But we know that she's an expert on raising kids and also an expert when it comes to relationships. Well, thanks for saying that. We have so many things that we can talk about. So, Peter, where would you like to go first?
• 2:53
  You know, you're a wonderful, brilliant mind. Of those three areas, what are you most excited to talk about? You spend a lot of time talking about post-exit, this masculine and feminine, and then this parenting. What excites you the most? All of them do. I also have now expanded from post-exit to post-wealth because actually you guys helped me very much to understand that people post-wealth who haven't sold the business, like for example, Pablo here, have very similar, if not exact, the same issues.
• 3:22
  And there is no reason for me to just reduce the number of people I can hopefully potentially help. So I am thinking much more about helping people post-wealth, whether or not they actually exited their businesses. In terms of relationships and kids.
• 3:37
  To me, all of these things are actually very much intertwined because my mission is to help people after financial success to build a deeply fulfilling life. And if we have stress coming from our most important relationship, our romantic partner and our children, there is, you know, fulfillment cannot be built. So for me, it's all together. Anyway, you both attended my in-person events and you know how I approach it. It has to be holistic. It just doesn't work any other way.
• 4:06
  But I'm happy to isolate any of these issues for this conversation with you guys. Hopefully we'll have more in the future. Any part of it is super exciting. I know you wanted to talk about feminine versus masculine today. Absolutely awesome with me. I think it's such an important topic. Do you want to focus on that? And then if we naturally spill into the other areas, awesome. Let's dig into that. You like your conversations to just flow naturally, which also how I like it. So let's just start with feminine, masculine and see where it takes us.
• 4:35
  I love it. Let's start there. Give us the most controversial thought. You know, you've lived in so many continents, spent so much time around the world. What's your strongest view that may not be commonly held on the feminine and masculine?
• 4:46
  I love how you start with questions like this. Well, I think what surprises people a lot when I talk about this topic are things, for example, like I take full and complete responsibility for my husband's happiness. I literally do not have any expectation of him taking care of his happiness.
• 5:06
  And I'm happy to explain why that is. I feel extremely strongly about this. And I know it works. This is where I get a lot of pushback often. But through all these arguments, I only believe this more, not less. Another thing is I raise my kids unemployable, as you know. Again, it often raises our eyebrows. People push back. It's the dance that I've been dancing for years. I still feel very, very strongly about this. And I think now I also have a confirmation with my older kids that what I was trying to achieve...
• 5:36
  worked. Nothing is perfect ever. And that was never the goal. But the strategy I have seems to be working. And I'm using the same strategy with my youngest kid now, hopefully even better than with the older ones. And another thing, going back to feminine masculine, I also strongly believe we should have absolutely zero expectations from our romantic partner. And that's very controversial. And especially when I talk to women, I get a lot of surprised looks.
• 6:05
  I'm happy to explain why I believe so strongly in all of this. Let's go on the first one, right? So you said that you take full responsibility for your husband's happiness. Yeah. So what is the common belief and what do you mean with that? All right. So basically, here's how I think about it.
• 6:22
  And you know, I'm in my second marriage and my first marriage actually failed after we came into wealth. So that's how I became so obsessed about why on earth this happens. And I feel so strongly about this. So for four years, I was in between relationships, learning, experimenting, thinking. And my second marriage I built in a very intentional way, but also extremely importantly, my husband taught me a lot.
• 6:50
  Exactly like me, he was four years between his marriages. And exactly like me, he had done a lot of work. But he also had done lots and lots of work because of his martial arts background and things like that. So we came together and we actually had this common interest in the psychology of love, both having tried and failed and learned from it. And my current philosophy was born from this kind of merger of two very different ways.
• 7:18
  worlds, but kind of came together. And now we're thinking exactly the same way because we've experimented in a very intentional way so much. I know I mentioned it to Pablo before, but it just makes me so happy. Stefan and I celebrated our 10th year anniversary last month.
• 7:34
  Congrats. Thank you. And he shared with me something. Actually, our anniversary date for the relationship is Valentine's Day. The day before, he saw a group of his male friends and they had some fun time together. But then he came back and he said, so interesting. One of them said, I've been married for four years, guys. And I'm so happy because I love my wife just as much as I did when I just met her. It made him feel depressed because he said, what?
• 8:01
  You only love her the same way after four years? This is so depressing. And he told me, I love you so much more than 10 years ago. And they really, really touched me. And I thought, we must be doing something right, because that's exactly how I feel. And I feel that the relationship we have is this flywheel that just keeps growing. I'm very excited about the future. I don't care.
• 8:25
  care if we are growing older because it's actually relevant for our relationship. And isn't that the most liberating thing to feel that way? So sorry, I'm boasting, but I just feel it's relevant. That's wonderful. But as always with complicators, they just don't answer my questions, right? So I want to go back to that.
• 8:46
  I wanted to create the context. So I'm actually a little bit more believable because otherwise, you know, why this woman thinks that she knows anything about relationships. That's a good point. I want to highlight two things before Pablo pulls it back. One is I love that you see it as a relationship is degrading.
• 9:02
  Because it's a sad fact. Most people think your high point is at the start of dating or marriage, and it's all a degradation rather than know there's a potential to grow. That is just an incredible twist. And then second, you flipped, right? We're all about flipping here from your biggest travesty, right? Losing your first marriage and not knowing why to the fire in your belly to go change the world for others in these situations to avoid the same. So I have to note the flips whenever I see them. Okay, Pablo, all you.
• 9:29
  So let's just go back to the question. You said the controversial take, which is, I would say it's a massive flip from what most people believe. Even I was shocked when I heard it. I'm like, what? Okay, tell me more about this. I want to learn more about this. Because let me tell you what I perceive to be the common belief is,
• 9:46
  individually, we are in charge of our own happiness. So if I cannot make myself happy, then nobody else can. And what you are saying is you feel responsible. You are responsible for your husband's happiness.
• 10:00
  100%. I literally have zero expectations from him doing anything at all from his happiness. And there is a reason for it, because this puts me in this attitude that I can have control in the best sense of the word over the area of my life where I actually need another person. Right. Because it is simply not true that we can be completely happy in some kind of isolated bubble.
• 10:26
  You mentioned that I lived in different countries. I grew up in a very different culture than the one I live in now. And it helps me actually transcend some of the mental blocks I think that different cultures have. And this is one of them. This individualistic culture.
• 10:42
  approach of the Western culture is great to push people to pursue things, but it's also become extremely dangerous and limiting in relationships because we create this fantasy, which is just disconnected from the reality that somehow we can be
• 10:59
  this lone wolf or wolverine happy all by him or herself. And as I was going through my post-divorce period, it became very, very clear for me that I don't want to be one of those. And I absolutely accept the truth that Mother Nature created us as tribal animals and also as the type of animals that thrive in a couple and a loving relationship.
• 11:22
  So my question became, how can I make sure that this part of my life is fulfilling without expecting anything from anybody else? And it turned out that it's absolutely possible. Once you actually have a question like this, answers come. So the first step for anybody who wants to try this system is to actually flip, as you guys like to say, the questions.
• 11:45
  And to say, how do I build a loving relationship where I can do everything to turn it into this beautiful flywheel of love? Now, how it actually works. So, first of all, let's talk about expectations, because that's another principle I have. That I have not only I take the full responsibility, but I also have zero expectations from my husband personally.
• 12:09
  like really zero. And it took me a little bit to train my brain. But now I can't even think about why would I have an expectation? It's hard to connect with the idea. And it happened very quickly. So the problem with expectations is that... Sorry, before you go there, how was your brain before? How did you train your brain to now be brain without expectations?
• 12:30
  So I think most of us grow up with the idea, I don't know where it comes from, that we should be expecting things from other people. But the problem with any expectation is that, A, we have zero control of the outcome, and B, we're very likely to end up in disappointment.
• 12:48
  And C, the other side may not know about our expectation. And this is super relevant for any relationships with friends or children, any social interactions. As soon as we have an expectation in our head, we set ourselves up for a potential conflict.
• 13:05
  or disappointment. And it doesn't only apply to people. If you look at the level of countries, countries end up in a war oftentimes because they expect different things from each other and fail to communicate. These days in particular, because so many countries completely lost the art of diplomacy. As a human society, we tend to have expectations, but if we still have an expectation, something magical happens. In romantic relationships,
• 13:31
  If you have no expectations, you have no disappointment. If you have no disappointment, then it's only natural when you also, when you don't have expectations, it's actually very natural to accept responsibility for the relationship. Because you think, okay, if I cannot, if I agree to this constraint that I'll never, ever have expectations from my partner, I kind of have to take responsibility for the process, don't I?
• 13:56
  So that was for you, the initial building block was, okay, if I have no expectations, then automatically I have to be responsible for his happiness. Is that correct?
• 14:05
  led to that. But yes, because if I have no expectation, I need to do something to actually get to the point when the relationship is fulfilling. And here is what happened next. I did lots of research and thinking, and you both know how interested I am in neuroscience and brain chemistry and the actual science also behind the ideas of masculine and feminine energies.
• 14:27
  And here's what I found, that if we look purely at neuroscience, we actually know exactly how attraction, love and sex work. And it's not even difficult. And most importantly, one person can make it happen. Sorry. Yeah, for the dummies here in the room. Mind blown. Can you please share how this works? Of course. So because that's exactly the topic of masculine feminine. Pablo, are you trying to figure out how sex works? Is that any little help there? Yeah, I hear that something goes inside of something, but I'm not really sure. It's just how it works.
• 14:57
  Exactly. Let's talk about sex, baby. All right. So I'm just sharing how I came to this logic. And then I'm happy to share how I tested it over time and how Stefan and I kind of ended up agreeing. But at the very basic level of what we know, and by the way, science does confirm a lot of the things that humans noticed for millennia. Like, for example, the fact that we need both female and male substance for the relationship, but also for our fulfillment to work.
• 15:24
  Sorry, what do you mean with subtends? So if you think about yin and yang, right, the idea is that a healthy human has both feminine and masculine energy. I don't really like the terms. And let's quickly talk about that, even though I understand where they come from.
• 15:40
  So if we look at the basic neurochemistry of attraction, it essentially works in the following way. Somebody initiates interaction, let's call the person initiator, and then another person receives or sends signals, I am ready to receive your initiative. The biochemistry that is at play is very simple. The initiate is driven by dopamine always, right? It's the pursuit, it's the desire, it's the initiative.
• 16:10
  Now, the other side, the recipient, if they react this way, it means that they react with oxytocin, right? The element of love and connection and belonging. It basically signals, I am willing to connect with you, to bond with you.
• 16:25
  Initiator can take it to the next level. Oh, okay, I'm welcome. I'll initiate. So the loop of sexual attraction just works like this. Dopamine creates a spark. Oxytocin sends the message of bonding. Then dopamine fuels desire. And then oxytocin puts more fuel into that by accepting the connections.
• 16:46
  So just an interplay between dopamine and oxytocin, essentially, if we simplify the game. And the beauty is that it's not a loop, it's actually a flywheel because it grows. And this is how we end up in passionate sex, right? If this works and both parties play the game and don't have cortisol destroying that beautiful flywheel, it just works very predictably, right? And this is where we feel chemistry and attraction. That's all it is. Once you understand that basic formula, then it's...
• 17:14
  becomes very clear that one person can absolutely create the right flywheel in a relationship. I want to get to some practical examples here. First of all, I don't need any examples. It's just for the audience, you know. Two things that I want to touch based on is one is, one more time, how did you retrain your brain to have zero expectations? And the other one is, how do you create this flywheel? Because the typical problem is when
• 17:40
  Let's say that we face a cold wall on the other side and they were like, she has a headache all the time or he is stressed all the time or whatever excuse we put. So which one do you want to tackle first? How do we create zero expectations maybe? And then we go to the other one.
• 17:57
  No, actually, I think let's talk about sex first and sexual desire because it's so important in the relationship. And then I hope the second question about expectations just disappears in a way by itself, but we will talk about it. Okay, once we understand and simplify the mysterious idea of a sexual desire and attraction to the formula of the flywheel, dopamine, oxytocin, dopamine, oxytocin, now something interesting happens. Okay.
• 18:26
  You wanted an example. Let me give you an example. It's very common and I'm sure you can relate to it and lots of people can. So let's say the husband, a male, had a very busy day running a business, comes home and the wife is being very warm and gentle and loving and touches him gently and gives him a massage and kisses him and says very nice words and looks into his eye. Would you say it's a feminine behavior or a masculine behavior of the wife?
• 18:56
  I would say that it's a feminine behavior. Here's an interesting thing. Yes, you would think so. Yes, she is the initiator and she is the dopamine. She has the dopamine. I agree with you on that, yes. But because she has the skill, and this is where it becomes important, because relationship skills matter. Because she has the skill and understanding. Here's what she does. She helps him switch.
• 19:21
  from dopamine into serotonin and oxytocin. Now they're dancing the dance, right? He relaxes. She gives him the time because his biochemistry needs a little bit of time. It's a matter of minutes, though, but still a little bit of time to switch. And then he lights up and then they dance the dance, right? So...
• 19:42
  The reason for so many millennia, the humanity associated this initiation with masculine energy and not feminine energy is because dopamine statistically is more likely to arise in men because testosterone amplifies dopamine. So we think a male dopamine, masculine energy.
• 20:06
  But it's actually not that primitive, right? Because once you understand it's a flywheel, which actually works really, really fast, you can light it up very, very well. But if you have the skill, you know how to create a spark. So a woman in this particular case will create a spark in a way that feels extremely feminine.
• 20:25
  Yet she has the dopamine and she invites him in a way that he actually can't resist. So this seduction game that we think is very feminine, nevertheless, starts with a spark. Now, a completely different situation. A woman is in the second half of her menstrual cycle. This is when women become often very moody because of how our progesterone works.
• 20:51
  So a woman is all over the place and she can't help it. She's moody, she's angry, she's whatever. Now the man is very stable. The man is stable because he has lots of serotonin. By his stability, he helps hurt.
• 21:06
  get stable because on a biological level, we synchronize with each other once the contact has been initiated. So, for example, what Stefan taught me, because he's really a master of this and he showed me without saying anything how it works, is when he sees me going up and down, he knows
• 21:26
  to give me a long hug. And what happens is that after a few seconds, actually now I know it's six seconds, but I didn't know for a while, he would just hold me. And in the beginning, I would try to push him away because I was just, but he would hold me. And then after six seconds, I'm like, oh, actually...
• 21:43
  I don't know what I was worried about. And he can initiate sexual contact if he wants to, or he just helps me switch to a beautiful, stable oxytocin and serotonin state in seconds. So once we understand the very, very basics and we start using them, it's actually unbelievable because we can help each other switch within seconds.
• 22:06
  What is the typical mistake that happens? So let's say this example that you mentioned, but instead of a hug, what is the typical mistake that men do? This is where expectations come in. So imagine I'm all over the place. I'm in the second half of the month and he comes back from work and neither of us actually is in a good place.
• 22:27
  It may happen. His expectation is that I'm all calm and loving and I will help him switch into the serotonin oxytocin mode. And I'm completely out of control because my hormones have taken over my brain and I'm just annoyed at everything he does. Right. So suddenly we are in this incompatible state.
• 22:46
  But the expectations that the other one will help, right? And we usually don't say that. We just get very angry if the other person doesn't do the right thing. So as we are building the relationship, and this is how relationships can become, they can compound in a beautiful way, is that we start building that skill. So, for example, in our marriage, **** generally knows, right?
• 23:10
  that it's more likely that he can step in and stop my up and down movements because most likely I'm not fully in control of where I am. And because his default hug always works and is so easy, he just has this habit.
• 23:27
  He sees me going up and down. He doesn't think, he doesn't analyze, he doesn't care. He knows he needs to give me a hug. Why? He gives me a hug. What's the next thing that happens? Suddenly I want to be nice and I want to give him warmth and I want to give him a massage. And he suddenly puts me in the right state, right? So because we both know that, that's great.
• 23:50
  Now, imagine, because I claimed that it doesn't matter what he does, right? So imagine it's just me. So I need, and for a woman, it's tricky, but it's possible. I need to train myself to recognize when I'm going up and down and to stop that. It's absolutely possible. It's possible. How do you stop that? This is the moment that all the male listening are going to send this to the wives. So how do you stop that?
• 24:14
  I use my tricks to rebalance my brain. And I know that what's happening right now is it may be cortisol, right? Because women are much more susceptible to cortisol than men, actually. So stress.
• 24:30
  causes much more volatility in a woman generally. And I know I'm particularly susceptible to cortisol. So oftentimes for me, it's cortisol. I was just thinking about something I can't quite stabilize myself. And then comes in and not giving me a hug. Let's imagine the situation, even though by now it never happens. He knows what to do, but let's say he doesn't. Then it's on me to rebalance my brain chemistry.
• 24:54
  And there are things that work for me like magic, like a hot shower, a short walk, any kind of rhythmical movements, meditation, yoga nidra, which in my case, I just listened for 10 minutes to a YouTube video on yoga nidra that I like and it works. So I have my tools to reach for, to take care of my own brain chemistry. But it starts with the attitude. It's my responsibility.
• 25:21
  I love that. And by the way, that's another area that you are a massive expert because you bring, so which is the brain chemistry, these four hormones, and then how to hack the system when one hormone is disbalanced and what to do in order to bring ourselves back into equilibrium. And I have not seen anyone explaining these things in such a simple way like you do.
• 25:47
  So just some encouragement there to keep talking about this. And maybe we will talk later about this also. The biggest question I had was the very first one is let's flip it away from you. If your incredible husband was on right now, would he say the same thing? Would he say it is my expectation for her happiness?
• 26:04
  Yeah, yeah. And by the way, he loves it. And I love it. I think it's actually very powerful to know. And once you have that attitude, why would you ever have a conflict, right? So another example, because Pablo, you asked, for example, and you're completely right, because otherwise it just sounds like abstract, weird thing. Let's imagine...
• 26:23
  a mistake. We all make a mistake. I make mistakes, right? So my default reaction now always is just one thing. Another controversial appeal of my relationship framework is that I never, ever criticize my husband. So I can't criticize him and I don't have any expectations and I'm fully responsible for the happiness. So he screws up, right? He does something stupid. What is my natural reaction if I have this attitude?
• 26:50
  The only thing I care about is like, oh my God, what can I do to make him feel better? That's all. He knows he screwed up and he must be really suffering because he feels bad about himself. What can I do to stop that? So without even thinking, I will always come to him. I'll give him love. I'll help him in whatever way is appropriate at the moment with one goal only to make him happier. That's my responsibility.
• 27:16
  And what happens is that, of course, he appreciates it and he appreciates it more and more and more over time. I'm earning his trust that no matter what happens, he's always emotionally safe with me. And to me, this is unconditional love. So with my kids, I do exactly the same thing. So my older kids are 17, 19. And my goal is to earn their trust so much that whatever happens, they know they'll come to me.
• 27:44
  They'll never be emotionally hurt. They can only ever be hugged and loved and get reassurance from me. Because the world is tough and they're both entrepreneurs and you know what it is. They get beaten up every single day. But they know there is a place in the world where no matter what happens, no matter how badly they screw up, they're loved unconditionally always. Does he not criticize you? Is that something that you don't see him do either? No, he is f***ing.
• 28:13
  never criticizes me. It took a while. Like this idea with not criticizing was something I brought to the table. He brought the hug and an easy tool to calm a woman down, which was awesome for me. Also, he helped me understand how we synchronize on a chemical level. Because, for example, when he hugs me, he also makes sure that his breathing is very calm. And he waits for me to breathe like him. So I didn't know that. He explained it to me later. Yeah.
• 28:40
  But what happens is that not only I have this oxytocin from the physical touch and I feel safe, right? He hugs me, I feel safe. But also he waits to make sure we're synchronized so I'm calm. And he listens to my heartbeat. And that's what he brought to the table. But I brought the sort of never criticizing part. And when he experienced it, it's a no brain. Because actually, you never ever have to criticize your partner, ever.
• 29:05
  And as a question here, because I can hear the people listening to the podcast, which most likely are going to be predominantly male. And hopefully they are listening to this with their spouse, but maybe not because maybe they are in the gym or doing something. And I heard this so many times. So I want to hear your counter.
• 29:25
  well, I am going to be doing this. She is not into personal development. You don't understand. Dude, you have not seen my wife. She just goes bananas. So that's impossible. Yeah, yeah. So what's your counter to that kind of mindset? Because I am sure that some people that are not in a great, amazing relationship that they want to be, they are excusing themselves by saying that,
• 29:47
  I would have a very respectful and loving suggestion. Please stop expecting anything from your wife because you cannot control her or the outcome. You can, however, control your skills. Your skills in brain chemistry and your skills in the relationships.
• 30:04
  And I think that most people overcomplicate this so horribly because once we just do a few, once we make a few commitments, like no expectations, and I take full responsibility and no criticism, things fall into place. And after that, of course, we also need to be able to rebalance our brain chemistry.
• 30:27
  A man in this situation can be making a few very common mistakes. For example, he may be misreading her behavior. She may feel unsafe and not talking about this. And when a woman feels unsafe, for most women...
• 30:43
  The default reaction is very, very different from male reaction, which is why for men, it's very hard to recognize it. And women often don't explain it because they don't understand it themselves. But if there is a source of stress, and that source of stress for a woman can be so
• 31:00
  so many different things. For example, maybe she doesn't actually feel financially secure, very common. Maybe she feels unattractive because she gained a bit of weight and she's not sure if actually she's too self-conscious. There are so many things that can make a woman stress, her cortisol goes up and the man can have no idea about what's happening.
• 31:22
  But if a woman feels unsafe, her reaction, again, is different. So for a man, man's testosterone is 20 times higher than a woman's testosterone on average. So that testosterone would push a man into fight or flight territory, right? So a man would be trying to do something or walk away.
• 31:43
  So, for example, in the relationship, if a man feels really stressed by the wife, he would be deciding, should I just go away and leave her or should I work very hard on the relationship? But this is not how women operate. So a woman, again, having 20 times less testosterone, but having estrogen and progesterone in the system reacts very different. She would very likely be in a freeze-of-phone situation. Okay.
• 32:10
  Freeze of fawn comes across as this very common behavior for women when one day she's just like, I'm not interested in sex, leave me alone. And another day she's kind of nice and cuddly and trying to build a connection, which sometimes doesn't come as very authentic to a man. Because what's happening is that this fawning behavior is actually seeking safety. It's not the woman being sexually attracted to the man. It is...
• 32:39
  just the sign, give me safety. So a woman would go, some women may just freeze and be very cold sexually because they feel unsafe. Other women start behaving in this like almost too girly manner, which a man may not find like very kind of needy and a bit awkward. Not...
• 32:59
  a seductive, confident behavior, right? Because when a woman is confident and safe, she plays this seductive role very differently in a way that a man cannot resist. She sends the signal of oxytocin and this female dopamine, which is completely irresistible, right? The start in this loop for a woman is very easy if she's confident.
• 33:23
  Now, if she's not confident, then she behaves strangely. And the man is like, I don't know. I don't feel desired. I just feel she's needy and strange. Just to cement the idea one more time, then because right now I'm hearing the man saying like, Anastasia, can you transform my wife into that, please? So what's the answer to that?
• 33:42
  Let's go back to the situation that, you know, we agreed that one person in the relationship is now responsible. Whether it's a man or a woman doesn't matter, right? So if you're a man and you say, okay, fine, I will not rely on couples counsel anymore. I'm not going to have a long relationship talk. I'm not going to tell my wife how horrible she is because she is not into personal development.
• 34:03
  I'm going to try to play this neurochemical game, right? So suddenly everything becomes very simple. The first thing you do without thinking, you give the poor woman a long hug and she may be resisting it, especially at first.
• 34:19
  But you start earning her trust. And this is a marathon. Even though hugs work right away biochemically, earning anyone's trust is a marathon. If you made mistakes like, God forbid, criticizing her or commenting that she gained weight or anything like this, the woman is full of cortisol.
• 34:40
  She's not playing the dopamine oxytocin game with you. She does not feel safe. She's frozen. She's not feeling sexual and she's not feeling confident because confidence is the very core of sexuality. And you know, somebody can be beautiful and not sexually attractive, and somebody can be not really beautiful and completely irresistible, right? Because this is the confidence that matters.
• 35:08
  And this takes me to an important point. This is why I don't really like feminine energy versus masculine energy. Because I think for women, this idea is actually really dangerous. And I hear it all the time. Women start thinking, oh, initiating sex is a male responsibility. What kind of bull is this? Look at the whole history of humanity. Who is the seductive one? Men can be seductive too. But come on.
• 35:36
  Who wins the game of seduction every single time, right? And there's dopamine. And dopamine seems to be male, but it's not, right? So I hear this so often, especially when I talk to the wives of men who exited a business, right? They say there's usually two complaints. One is that he initiates sex at all their own moments.
• 35:58
  And the second one is that I have to initiate sex or nothing happens, right? So why the first thing happens is that post-exit in particular, but it's not only post-exit. It's also after any other big change or transition or stress or whatever, a man or
• 36:13
  often goes through this low dopamine state and oftentimes also low libido state. Actually, men often is not even that interested in sex, but there is an expectation in his head, which is purely cultural, that I should be initiating sex, right? So he tries to do it without properly thinking in wrong moments for the woman.
• 36:36
  and it doesn't work. And she, at the same time, is not ready for it. She's not receptive because she doesn't feel safe, right? So an exit causes so many divorces, so many problems in sex, so many problems in relationships because people don't understand the very basics.
• 36:53
  And they don't understand that we need to be there for each other through this challenging period in the right way. Right. So, for example, think about it. If one of the spouses has the attitude, it is my responsibility, I won't criticize. Right. Then the whole dynamic will change very quickly.
• 37:14
  I'm realizing all of the mistakes. I mean, all the mistakes I make are just red flag. I'm listening to this knowledge. So one, your wonderful husband realized it doesn't really matter what you're saying. Like, basically, he's hinting, just ignore whatever the words are. It can be, Peter, you're terrible. Popple, you're terrible. Whatever.
• 37:33
  Set those aside and you just go in for a hug. And it almost to me, tying together everything else you're saying, it's saying your partner wants to know they're safe. They want to know these problems don't matter. They're going to be OK. And the physical hug. And then I think they call it biobehavioral synchrony. I know kids and parents like a father and son sync up heart and mind. It's probably the same thing with partners, girlfriend, boyfriend, man and woman. Is that right?
• 37:55
  Well, temporarily, we can all trigger it. Our biology is actually amazingly simple and also works reliably well. So we synchronize, like what I told you about, for example, with how beautifully does it. And again, it comes from all the martial arts training, but it's still based on basics, right? He will wait for me to start breathing the way he breathes, right? He will wait for my heart rate to go down.
• 38:19
  And then everything changes. And then I don't want to say anything that, you know, he didn't want to hear anymore. Right. And it doesn't matter. You're right in a way that we get triggered by words a bit too much. We don't really see into the root cause of the behavior. And just to be clear, the hug is silent hug. It's not a hug at the same time that they are trying to solve your problem.
• 38:42
  That's actually a very good point, right? Because the way it's silent. If I really go crazy up and down with cortisol, he does say, I love you. And he looks into my eye, like he boosts my oxytocin so much. Then my whole system gets flooded in seconds. And I'm like, oh, what is it I was about to complain about? I don't remember.
• 39:03
  Let me maybe share what not to do. And Anastasia, you can react to this is, okay, got it. So I hug her at the same time that I start solving her problem. I start coaching her and telling her she shouldn't worry about this. And this is what we are going to do instead. And this and this and that.
• 39:18
  I agree with you. And it's kind of a common knowledge that men tend to solve problems and try to solve problem when a woman is like that. I just figured this out like a month ago. So I just want to double down. It was maybe a year ago. But for the guys like me, they're like, wait, how do I miss the train on all this? The words are not what they want solved. Right. It's not, hey, I want this thing fixed.
• 39:41
  It's this form of safety or comfort, right? Yes. For men, it's usually a shocking idea that the woman doesn't want the problem solved, right? But it's because she wants a certain sequence. So I would disagree that the woman does not want the problem solved. She totally does, just not right away, right? She wants her brain chemistry rebalanced. She wants to feel connection. She wants to feel safe, right?
• 40:08
  She may not know it. She may not ask for it. She may actually be angry at you. It doesn't matter. But she wants to be rebalanced first, reconnected, safe. And for a woman, connection is safety, right? That's how women operate in the tribe. We want to feel connected to the tribe. It's more important for us than for men generally. So translation, it means women want to feel heard. So just listening, being very, very present, that helps a lot. That goes a very, very long way.
• 40:38
  Yeah, that definitely works. Any form of presence actually works. So you're 100% right, because for a woman, a man sitting there looking into her eyes, listening, is presence. He's there, he's calm, and she's like, okay, we're connecting. This physically strong creature who is supposed to be saving me from that proverbial tiger is here.
• 40:59
  My kids are safe because if there are kids, the woman will think about that. All the brain goes through the checklist. Check, check, check. On the surface, the man just sits there listening to her venting, right? But her brain is like, oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. Again, I personally think a hug is even more powerful because physical connection boosts oxytocin more than anything else. Proximity works. So I would say try to hug her first and then listen to her.
• 41:29
  Let me just maybe take a different approach and tell me here what you think. So, I mean, thank God this doesn't happen to me. But let's say that my wife, she's, let's call it all over the place with her hormones. And she starts talking about something, right? And she starts venting about something.
• 41:49
  Well, I have two options, right? One is I just sit there very present and I'm like, okay, first of all, this is not about me. She's not talking about me. Even if she's talking about me, she's not talking about me. She's just processing something. She most likely does not want any opinion or solution whatsoever.
• 42:07
  Yes. And again, I never know. But I just like most likely she doesn't want that. But if right now she's talking, I feel much better just letting her talk rather than just having her kind of like shut up. Well, you basically show that unconditional love. Like we talked about earning trust of the partner. Like you are earning her trust. You are there.
• 42:29
  No matter what happens. And, you know, women do test men a lot because we need to know he'll be there when the tiger comes. Right. We need to rehearse this situation again and again and again. So the sooner the man starts earning her trust, the less problems he has. Right. Once she's safe and the trust is there, she'll stop testing.
• 42:52
  Well, that brings us to another topic, which I am fascinated about. And I learned about this, I think that around nine years ago or eight years ago, which is this concept that women test men all the time. We are not just talking about in the dating phase. We are talking about the dating, the marriage, 10-year anniversary, 20-year anniversary, 30-year anniversary, and forever.
• 43:17
  So can you explain, please, to the audience, what the heck does that mean and why you guys do that? Well, I don't want to sound like I'm the ultimate expert or anything on this. I'm really sharing the way I do things and what I learned in between my marriages and through experiments. But for me, it's absolutely clear. First of all, it's important to understand women don't do it intentionally.
• 43:44
  It doesn't come from a bad place. We're not trying to torture our men intentionally. But we do have a very, very high sensitivity for safety, which is why our cortisol, we feel it much more than men. And it has to come from the fact that biologically we are more vulnerable.
• 44:01
  We are born generally on average weaker. And most importantly, we are built to have kids and we are built potentially to have lots of kids one after another within like 20 year period. Right. So it only makes sense to think that Mother Nature has has built this system in our brain to make sure that partner we are relying to is actually reliable.
• 44:25
  So this is how I explain it. I'm definitely guilty of this. And of course now in my marriage, we often laugh about it and we turn it into a playful thing. But to be fair, I test less and less and less. Because you are more self-aware. That's why the testing is going down.
• 44:43
  Because he earned my trust. Because I know he's not going anywhere. That is a very good point. He's passing the exams, right? He's passing the test. So you don't need to retest for something that he already passed. Give us an example about a test that you have done, a test that you would have done nine years ago, and a test that you have done in the last 30 days.
• 45:00
  So again, I never do that intentionally. And I cannot possibly do it because I'm responsible for his happiness. Right. So I cannot do it. Wait, I want a spicy one. I want a real one, real life. Then we can go more global. If I hit a low confidence moment, which I do, like, for example, now I am challenging myself a lot on my mission to help.
• 45:22
  people post-wealth to find their fulfillment. I have to learn a lot of things. Sometimes it gets really stressful, like before my in-person event. So I may become more in need of him to calm me down because he's part of my brain chemistry system by now. We've really grown into...
• 45:39
  into one person. And when things are hard, I do love him to help me. Even though I know how to do it, I may go all, you know, up and down, stressful and not as pleasant as he would like me to be. We want an example. To me, it's very important to bring it. No, I'm being serious. It's very important to bring into reality because you have to be conscious of the following. I've studied this for many years. You did the same.
• 46:07
  Many people are like, for the first time, be like, what, test? Huh? What are we talking about? And it's like, yeah, dude, every day you are getting tested and you are failing most likely. If you are not very happy with your marriage or your relationship, most likely that's what's gonna happen, what's happening right now. So give some examples.
• 46:23
  So, for example, a couple of months ago, I had to, you know, run a different kind of an in-person event. Largely, thanks to you guys, pushing me very hard to do it. And I couldn't get out, right? I made the commitment. I had to go through this. But it was stressful and hard for me. And there was a moment when I did, you know, snap. I made some kind of annoyed comment. It hugged me.
• 46:48
  Six seconds later, I didn't remember what my problem was, but we have this dance, right? So that is wonderful because what tends to happen, you didn't say, but let's say that you snapped at him. You didn't behave nicely to him, let's call it. Yeah, I made a bit of a nasty comment. Of course. Exactly.
• 47:05
  You made a nasty comment. That was not intentional. That was you being totally disbalanced in your brain chemistry. The common response, I would say nowadays, in at least in the Western world, is the man snaps back. Yeah, that's a no, no. That's it. Yeah, that's it. He fails the test. That's a no, no. Yeah, you can't pick up a fight. But you see where it comes from? It comes from the expectation that he has that she doesn't behave that way.
• 47:34
  I think of it's about to be a girl fight. It's suddenly I had four sisters, you know, like you knew it was about to go down. Like they're about to go. And the husband in that moment has a choice of the boyfriend. Do I want to get in this girl fight or do I want to check myself? I'm trying to think I can only remember through acronyms. My acronym of what you're saying is this
• 47:52
  REC, like record. You know, we're recording this right now. One is responsibility is completely mine for her happiness. The second one is expectations, nada. Can't have them. And then the last one is just criticisms or criticizing, gone. And it's like if you record yourself acting in those three ways, the relationship will flip. You will see a massive flip in the room.
• 48:14
  It's basically constraints we put on ourselves and then everything flows, right? And the second thing is I think it's very important also to lose the expectations of a man versus a woman because it's actually very tricky. Again, this super common complaint that I hear from wives and they don't share that even with their husband oftentimes is that they actually feel that they should be initiating sex directly.
• 48:39
  They stop doing it, right? Because they're like, no, I'm a woman. He should be initiating sex. And then the man thinks she's cold. And when we dig into this deeper, it may be just one rejection that the man already forgot. Maybe even misread, right? But she registered. I talked to a woman and I asked her to remember when she couldn't trigger the reception from a man to her signals. Right?
• 49:06
  And oftentimes it's just once. Or, for example, she also chooses a bad moment. You know, maybe he, I don't know, overate and he feels self-conscious because he's not quite sure, you know, he's ready for sex at the moment. Whatever it is, men and women deal with so many fears and insecurities. If we don't accept our partner the way they are, then it's very hard. For example, you know, a woman who understands how the loop of attraction works is
• 49:35
  And is confident in her skin because her attitude and plus her husband not diminishing her confidence naturally actually initiates sex all the time. And when I talk to these women, they said, no, I would love to initiate sex, but I'm not a man. Like I want, I want to, here's the most common thing a woman would say. I want a confirmation that he's attracted to me. Basically, she's saying, I am not confident in my skin. That's all it is.
• 50:02
  A confident woman would never seek a validation like this. She will not even think about it. She will think, oh, I want sex. I'm going to go get it. And I'm going to get it by seducing him in a way that cannot fail. Because I know how to play the game. And the more she does it, the more confident she becomes as a woman. Because even if every now and then the man is not in the mood, it doesn't matter. Yeah.
• 50:28
  How do the men, how do we build that up in our girlfriend or our wife? Like, what are the things we do? Is it the REC? She needs to feel beautiful. Like, you tell her how beautiful she is, like, all the time, especially when she's not. Because she knows it doesn't matter. When she's really not beautiful, you tell her how beautiful she is.
• 50:49
  You find something beautiful. So maybe your hair is a mess, but you say your skin looks great or I like your outfit. But also you will actually feel very good yourself. You will talk yourself into love and oxytocin. It's very rewarding, actually. But for a woman, you are earning her trust. She's like, OK, I hear you. I'm safe. I'm loved. I'm accepted the way I am.
• 51:11
  All wonderful, but I'm going to put myself in, I am Billy, right? And Billy says, well, Anastasia, I love my wife, but she became kind of a tank. You know, she kind of like happened to ate a lot. So, okay, what do you say to Billy?
• 51:27
  Well, I would really look carefully into this. First of all, why a woman gets fat, especially around her waist. Part of it can be age, because when progesterone goes down and things get disbalanced, it's not her fault. And even going to the gym may not help, and we need to appreciate it, our ways to deal with this. But it's important that the husband doesn't put responsibility onto her, because most likely she has no idea what to do, right? And she just feels ugly.
• 51:55
  She cannot initiate sex. If he initiates sex, she can actually get very angry because she doesn't feel good in her body and it's stressful for her. But even more importantly, cortisol in a woman works in such a way that fat is preserved. Because for a woman, she goes into fat preservation mode. If the tribe is in danger, the man goes and fights, retreat or whatever.
• 52:18
  A woman has only one reaction. I preserve every calorie I have in my body. And our bodies work beautifully to do that. So our woman may be self-conscious because, God forbid, we actually raised an eyebrow because she gained weight. Right? It starts a vicious cycle. She's getting fatter and fatter and fatter. Stress eating is a very common reaction to stress.
• 52:43
  So if a wife is gaining weight, it's super important to look into why. And then of course she stops going to the gym because everything becomes much harder to do. And also super discouraging because this thing that happens to a woman's body, especially with this kind of fat around her belly, it doesn't go away. Like she stops eating, she's on a diet, she's going to, she does all these things and nothing happens. And this is the most discouraging thing. And for her, the most important thing in the world is that the husband finds her attractive.
• 53:12
  If she allows to show that she's not, her cortisol is through the roof and it stays there. She becomes a nasty wife. She doesn't want sex. Absolutely not. She may even be very aggressive in reaction to any interest. And she's getting fatter and fatter and she can't do anything about it. So the real way to solve this is exactly the same medicine that works for anything else in relationship is flood her with unconditional love. Again, yes.
• 53:40
  and again and again and again. Be there for her. Reduce her cortisol with everything you have. And the most important thing is giving her reassurance. I love you exactly the way you are. I think men are very afraid to do that because they think in a very male way. Oh, I'm creating their own incentive system for my wife, right? I want to incentivize her with pain. That doesn't work for women. You're doing exactly the opposite.
• 54:06
  You're basically putting her in a situation that she cannot resolve. Well, this is very interesting. And maybe it's the right time, maybe it's not. But maybe you can bridge for a second. You said we tend to incentivize with pain, which you have a very interesting flip in how you teach your kids and how you teach everyone, basically, where you do not incentivize things through pain. You do it in a different way. Can you explain that?
• 54:33
  I just want to wrap up just to crystallize the last piece. So in summary, one is as a man, I really need to make her feel safe. I need to protect her, make her feel safe. That's in her image, how she looks. That's from the lion that may show up at the door. All of these things are really something that gives her this foundation of comfort, safety to be herself.
• 54:54
  Whereas men, we want the challenge or oftentimes we're motivated by the discomfort and that makes us kind of go. And if we want to flip our relationship, want to flip our marriage, our girlfriend, it's this, the REC, right? So we have to recognize that we are responsible for her happiness. We cannot have expectations from her.
• 55:13
  And I'm still a little confused on some of it, like I'm thinking food, for example. Someone might be in charge of food. And then criticism. It's so clear to me because I think with my children, I do this much more naturally. And I realize I struggle with this as a partner. Those are kind of the three. So as a guy, I'm thinking takeaways they can put in their pocket.
• 55:30
  One is if you have a bench problem with your wife or girlfriend, just hug her. Just try it out. Hug her. Six seconds. Wait till the breathing equalizes. Thanks to our amazing black belt and every form of self-defense for that. Second is the REC. Responsibility. No expectations. No criticisms. And the final one is just remember our job as a male is to give this protection. Protection of her beauty. Protection of her safety. Protection of her. And that's what allows this flower to open up and show the beauty.
• 55:58
  Yeah. So when a woman feels confident, she becomes seductive. She actually wants to take care of herself because she craves your approval. She craves that moment when you look into her eyes and tell her how beautiful she is.
• 56:14
  So a man thinks, oh no, if I tell her she's going to gain weight, she'll go to the gym. For a woman, it doesn't work that way. If my husband thinks I'm beautiful and he gives me this incredible pleasure, the most important pleasure in my whole life, when he looks into my eyes and tells me I'm the most beautiful creature on the planet...
• 56:32
  I'll do anything and everything for that to keep happening. And I want to surprise him with how even more beautiful I become. So this is the dynamic we want. The problem is that it has to be very consistent. You know, a man can start that and then he does it for a little bit and then he fails a test. He actually comments when she eats a cake or something.
• 56:54
  That's it. He destroyed the trust. We're back on, not just on where we were, but actually far behind. He has to keep earning the trust. But in your previous answer, you were talking about the incentives and how when we make a mistake...
• 57:10
  let's say, as a partner, we try to incentivize people to do something through pain. And you have a very, very good flip in the way that you teach, which is not through pain. So can you maybe go into a little bit more detail of what is your philosophy here? What is your flip?
• 57:27
  For all of us to feel the best we possibly can, we really need to master the basics of our brain chemistry. We need to understand how these things work and we need to balance them because this makes us a better husband, a better investor, a better father in everything because the quality of our decisions are better. And also once we understand it, we start understanding other people better.
• 57:51
  I don't like all these tricks in social interactions. I think they're completely unnecessary. If we are very authentic, helping the other person feel good, that's all we need to know about social skills.
• 58:06
  actually. Okay, you have a very interesting flip the way that you do it with your kids, which is the typical thing that is being taught is that once you find what your kid likes to do, just let the kid do that all the time, right? Yeah, that doesn't work. Unfortunately, that would be great.
• 58:26
  You have a different take. So why that doesn't work? Let me give you a bit of a context here. So when I had my first business exit, I had two kids, two boys. They were one and three. And I got really scared that they will grow unmotivated, lazy, spoiled, rich kids.
• 58:45
  And that fear, in a way, incentivized me to really focus on how I want to be a parent, because also very soon I became a single mom after that. Right. So I was the only one responsible and somehow trying to figure it out. And I didn't have any experience with raising kids with wealth before. So my logic was the following.
• 59:07
  If there was one thing that I needed to get right that would help everything else, what would that thing be? So I looked at all the challenges that wealthy families had comparing to the rest of the population.
• 59:23
  And it became very, very clear, the pattern is very clear, that kids that grow up in a very well-to-do household often lack motivation. So when they become teenagers, some kind of ugly, vicious cycle starts that takes them to all the wrong places. And then we have drugs and we have unmotivated kids and all of that. So I thought, okay, I need to figure out the motivation. So I went on and I studied how the whole motivation works.
• 59:47
  work. What came from that research was a bunch of experiments that I ran all the time. And I'm a bit of an obsessive cuckoo mom. And because I was a single mom, I really focused on experimenting on my kids. So it boils down to the following. I want my kids to be pulled towards something, to want to do something so badly that nobody can actually even stop them.
• 1:00:12
  And for that, I needed to make sure that I cut off options that would interfere with that logic. So I raised them with this idea, which was a bit of a cruel experiment maybe, but I think it works, with the idea that if they wanted to be truly free, they needed to know how to create financial freedom from scratch.
• 1:00:36
  If you want to be an artist, but you don't have financial freedom, you end up becoming a lawyer and never becoming an artist because you work for money. So the idea was that if you actually want to have all the choices in the world when the time comes,
• 1:00:53
  You have to master the basic skills of financial freedom. And when they were around 12, they actually asked me about inheritance. And I told them that the nature of money is such that I cannot possibly promise that there will be any inheritance.
• 1:01:10
  money at any point in the future because we don't have the full control. Things may happen, hyperinflation, this and that. So even if I really wanted to promise them any inheritance, I can't possibly do it because it would be a lie. So I told them the true inheritance and legacy I can give them is to teach them financial freedom. So if there is no money available to them after I'm
• 1:01:34
  It's perfectly fine. And I had to repeat it a couple of times and then they completely lost interest in the conversation. Never raised it again. But it's another constraint. So one constraint is that employment is not an option. Another constraint is that inheritance is not an option.
• 1:01:49
  So you kind of guide without imposing anything on them. You're guiding them towards the situation where I wanted them to be, which is where no matter what happens in life, they have the financial freedom. And then they can be artists or musicians or whomever they want, but not without the ability to take care of themselves financially. So that is one thing that we created through this kind of constraints.
• 1:02:14
  One question on that. So you said that employment is not an option. So basically you said to them, you guys are going to be entrepreneurs. Or at least I wanted to make sure that they know how to create financial freedom and be something else. Right. I didn't want them to necessarily think I have to run a business.
• 1:02:34
  But I wanted them to know that if they don't find a way to create financial freedom, unfortunately, they will not have the time and energy available to do what they want to do. So I was telling them, it's great if you want to be an entrepreneur. But if you want to be a musician and not give up on what you really love doing, you better figure out how to support yourself. Because my problem was I studied closely lots of families who were ahead of me on the post-wealth journey.
• 1:03:03
  what I saw again and again and again is these parents who are saying, oh, you know, I want my kids just to be happy and do whatever they want to do. And then the kids don't want to do anything, right? So the parent is really hurt because they're like, how come they don't want to do anything if I create everything? You know, I found the best schools. They don't need to work for money because they know they have this wealth. Like I created everything for them to just pursue their passion. And there's no passion.
• 1:03:32
  Well, it sounds exactly the same as the struggling group, right? People that have an exit, they have all the money, they can do anything they want. And what do they do? They do nothing. Well, they sell sabotage, right? If we create a situation for our kids that everything is easy, they're not motivated.
• 1:03:49
  So instead, my parenting philosophy was very different. First, I created these constraints. What is not an option? Employment is not an option. Reliance on inheritance is not an option. Because you can't lie to your kids. They see if the family is doing well, right? And then unless you have a clear message to them, they will actually assume that it will always be like this.
• 1:04:10
  Wait a second. So you are saying that just flying economy to make your kids think that they have less so they get resilient doesn't work? What? I knew we'll end up in the private jet conversation, Pablo, with you somehow.
• 1:04:26
  Not even private jet, just business class. Like parents fly business class and when they fly with the kids, they're like, you know what? We need to go economy because so we make him resilient, make her resilient. That doesn't work in your opinion? Depends. For example, if my kids are flying somewhere by themselves, they fly economy. They don't fly business. I think it's right. I think they need to understand what it means. They need to have this experience. Yeah.
• 1:04:51
  If we are flying together and they fly business, they know it's because, you know, we are flying together, but they still need to know how to earn that luxury when they grow up. And I have two questions on this. So one is, I love the way you explain to kids, you know, for you, for example, hey, I was born in a country that doesn't exist anymore.
• 1:05:12
  There's not a guarantee of wealth, money, your country, anything except your own self-confidence and ability to deliver. That makes sense for the no inheritance. How do you explain, or maybe I'll mirror it back, when you try and explain the no employment, you're saying if you really want to be a musician or this or that or the other, unless you can make enough value professionally, you may lose the ability to go do this passion you have. Is that how you convince them of the no employment or what's the compelling argument there?
• 1:05:39
  All right, so because I had boys, I needed to learn how to speak to males because males... How does this change for boys versus girls since you have three boys and sons? Again, I can speak about how to raise boys.
• 1:05:52
  You haven't learned the girls. Dang it. Well, I grew up with a sister, so I can only learn from my parents and their experience. My direct parenting experience is focused on one gender. But in a way, it's good that it's the opposite gender because I had to actually master the lingo of men. So when I talk to my boys, I use words like freedom, for example. Freedom works every single time. A girl wouldn't care about that word at all. And I know and I wouldn't care.
• 1:06:21
  But for boys, it's magic. So I tell them, like, if you want to have freedom, you need to have financial freedom. Because if you are employed, it's not freedom. You can be fired any day. And also you have to sell your time. So if you want to be a musician, and sadly, it's not a well-paid profession, at least not for a while.
• 1:06:42
  You may have to actually stop doing what you love and start doing what you hate all day long to earn money. So they hear this message because it's freedom, right? It's autonomy. It's agency. It's very important for boys. Then boys also react to competition. They react to the idea of success and achieving things.
• 1:07:04
  And I think there is nothing wrong with it early in life that children understand that they need to have the ability to make themselves self-sufficient. They need to, like, it may sound like an external drive. And in a way it is, I actually, for example, for entrepreneurship, I think it doesn't matter why people start the first businesses at all. Any motivation is great. It matters greatly why they start their business automatically.
• 1:07:32
  after they achieve financial freedom, right? Because then we have a completely different reality and a different set of problems. And if we don't have the right why, we tend to run out of motivation a couple of years after we start the second business. But the first business, if, and I know, Peter, you can relate to that because obviously you do so much work with young founders. And I think we're aligned on this. If they do it to earn money,
• 1:07:57
  Great. Awesome. Because they should be learning how to put a mask on their own face before they go and save the world. Because what's absolutely killing me is when I hear messages from schools or somewhere else putting pressure on children to go and save the planet. Like, seriously? This is so wrong. And what I see with, talking about girls, what I see with girls all the time, like my boys bring girlfriends into the house, so I have some exposure to girls.
• 1:08:24
  And I see this so many times that girls hear this message much louder than boys because girls are designed to be more kind of to fit into the rules of the society naturally. So what happens to poor girls is that they hear this message, I need to go and save the planet right now. But the answer is, I don't know.
• 1:08:44
  They don't feel that way. They're not ready. They're not ready because they don't know how to take care of themselves yet. And they have this horrible cognitive dissonance they have to live with. And then girls, because usually girls pretend when they need to fit in. So you see these girls living with a lie. They go out there and they pretend they're solving the world's problems that they're not ready to solve. Wait a second. Are you saying that they are brainwashing our kids? Is that what you're saying? Yeah.
• 1:09:14
  I'm just saying that this message that adults often send to the kids, that with all the best intentions, I'm sure, to go and save the world actually often leads to this mental health crisis we have. I love it, right? Because it's like, well, I couldn't save the world. So it's your job, right? You, little Sally, you need to save the world, okay?
• 1:09:35
  And we see these poor kids trying to save the world when they have no tools yet, no skills, no sense of safety. It's so unnatural to push a poor child to try to save the world. It causes so much stress. Then we have drugs. Then we have weed. Then we have self-harm and girls cutting themselves. Of course, they're super stressed out.
• 1:09:58
  Well, the analogies that I see this with the post-wealth, post-exit journey that you teach, it's really unbelievable because we achieve financial freedom. And yes, we did it because for ourselves. And then we just want to relax. We don't want to do anything. But then also we are feeling that we are missing something, that we are failing in some shape.
• 1:10:19
  shape or form. We admire all these people that are literally doing incredible things for the world. And we compare ourselves, but we are not there. We don't want to do that. And then we go into dopamine hits here and there. And you're totally right. In a way, we are not that dissimilar from those poor teenagers because the core problem oftentimes is that sense of safety and the sense of confidence.
• 1:10:43
  right? Because it's only natural for us specifically, you know, post-exit to go very low in both, right? We have lots of self-doubts and post-syndrome, all these things, post-exit and after financial success generally. It's very natural. We have very natural grand chemistry imbalance. We are very, very much like teenagers in a way. And then we reach out for easy fixes. And so do our kids, right?
• 1:11:08
  Tell us about this paradox of someone achieved financial freedom, but they don't feel safe. They definitely live in a good side of the town. So crime is low there. They have the money. How the hell they don't feel safe? What's going on there? There are several reasons. One of them is if we're talking about this...
• 1:11:26
  classic situation. I built a business and then I suddenly have wealth and all I know is how to build a business, but I don't know how to manage my wealth. This sense of incompetence really hurts our self-worth and confidence and creates a lot of stress. So you and I know, because in our community, very often people admit in private settings, I feel very unsafe financially.
• 1:11:49
  And it has nothing to do with how many zeros we have in the account. It's knowing that I'm not going to lose that hard-earned wealth. Because for lots of people, it's 10 or 20 years of sacrificing everything, often not even getting salaries, to get to that big sum. And then realizing that I can lose it any day and I don't know what to do with it.
• 1:12:11
  And at the same time, our brain chemistry plays all sorts of tricks with us when we already have lots of fears and we don't feel enough because our serotonin is low. So biochemically, we feel off, but we also know for a fact that we don't know how to manage our wealth. And then God forbid there are early losses, because if there are early investment losses, then we are often stuck. And again, we have friends who are exactly in this situation right now.
• 1:12:39
  We're often stuck in this sunk cost fallacy when we start throwing good money after bed, and then it makes everything worse. And cortisol goes up. And if our cortisol is high, the quality of our decisions is not very good. And then you ask that person, do you feel safe? And she says, oh, my God, no.
• 1:12:58
  Absolutely. I can't sleep. I'm gaining weight. I don't connect with anyone because I sit there and I can't be present because all I'm thinking about is my own safety issues. And I feel people don't want to hang out with me and I don't want to hang out with them anyway.
• 1:13:15
  Because I'm ashamed of myself. It's such a vicious cycle that can start from a very good place of financial success if it's not managed well. And we're not ready for it. How can we possibly be ready for the psychological side of financial success? No one teaches that at school. Or university or anywhere.
• 1:13:34
  or university or anywhere, and also statistically to get to the place of true financial freedom, it's actually not very likely in the society, right? There's a small percentage of people. So it would actually be very strange if this was taught in university or school, because it's not actually needed for many people. But when you are there, it's important to know what's actually happening. What is your definition of financial freedom?
• 1:13:56
  So for me, the financial freedom means that I feel financially safe. I feel I have enough. And that is created not by that one lump sum, but by having a system which you know can reliably support you for long enough.
• 1:14:13
  So the difference for me between financial success and true financial freedom is whether we have that system that gives us this sense. And for some people, they may be trusting a wealth manager to do that and they feel safe. But for lots of people, there is not enough sense of control. Even if a professional builds a portfolio for us, we still don't feel safe and we have to be honest about it. It means that's not the solution for us personally.
• 1:14:43
  to get to that point when wealth stops stressing us. This is really the test. Like if you are honest with yourself, am I stressing about money or not? And oftentimes, like for example, going back to women, women are very interested in this way because women often just ignore the whole topic. Like women may not even manage the wealth. They just pretend it doesn't exist to cut off the stress, but it doesn't really cut off the stress. The stress is there.
• 1:15:13
  So question on that, how can we check how our wife, spouse, partner, girlfriend really feels about this topic? If the answer that we are getting from them based on what you are saying is... No, it's not necessarily... Not necessarily... I'm just saying that many women admit that they just don't want to think about it. Like the whole topic doesn't exist. It's too stressful because, again, women are more sensitive to this kind of stress.
• 1:15:41
  But to get the sense of how your partner feels, you really have to pay attention to what they say, to the signs, to try to have a very honest conversation, to make sure that the woman herself is not lying to herself. So I agree with you. It's not always clear. And the woman herself may not realize that it's a source of stress, but making sure that that sense of safety is built together. Also, a woman may feel unsafe because she may feel, you know, depressed.
• 1:16:09
  She has no access or control of any money because the husband runs it and he may think, oh, I'm doing it because she's not interested. So these things need to be discussed and it's not always pleasant, but, you know, it's our life partner.
• 1:16:24
  We need to be sure. Anastasia, I want to hit a fire round on you gave me the best hack ever around kids, especially boys raising them. And I just want you to repeat it. How do you help convince them to not be dependent and in the future version of themselves? Right. You wanted to help them tie to their goal rather than try and use negative reinforcement. It was, hey, what do you think the chess master is doing? You want to be a professional soccer player? What do you think the soccer player does? Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  And then there was also you were planting seeds around you don't want to be dependent. You don't want people, don't you feel bad for them not achieving their potential of becoming the soccer star? I do have a whole thing about achieving potential because as I started saying, I got very focused on motivation.
• 1:17:08
  And I thought, okay, I want them to be motivated by something other than fear. So there are a few things I did. So on the one hand, I say no inheritance, no employment. I even take it further. I actually tell them, if you choose to be entrepreneurs, you will go bankrupt. You will lose money several times. It will just happen. It happens to everyone and it's perfectly fine. So as early as possible, they just accept it as a reality. Yeah.
• 1:17:35
  And I tell them, and it will be perfectly fine because you'll know how to pick yourself up. We just need to prepare you for it as we prepare for anything else. So we want the stress to go away. We don't want them to fear bankruptcy because in their head it already happened and they know how to deal with this. Because if we look into how that cortisol system works, if cortisol goes up because we are afraid of something...
• 1:17:58
  but then we get reassurance that we're capable of dealing with it, cortisol goes down, right? So I wanted them to just be, okay, you know, I'll go bankrupt sometimes. But I also wanted them to accept risk early because I thought, okay, as soon as I started seeing that they are very interested in entrepreneurship, I thought, I don't want them to be afraid because when they're young is the time to accept risk, right? So I wanted to liberate them from that side of things. But
• 1:18:25
  Going back to your question about realizing their full potential, the way I do it, I did it with the older ones, I do it with my younger one who is seven now, is I look for every single opportunity out there to show them situations when somebody had the potential. Everybody does have a potential, but there are stories and cartoons and movies. Somebody had a potential and then they didn't realize it.
• 1:18:49
  And I then discuss that situation with compassion. This is the emotion I want them to feel. I don't want them to feel to dislike that person or something. I want them to feel compassion. So they feel compassion. But an interesting thing about compassion for men is that, yes, it develops compassion, but it also, they don't want to be that person. They don't want others to feel sorry for them.
• 1:19:16
  So they get the message that, yeah, you know, I don't judge that person or exclude them or whatever, but I don't want to be them. Right. And, for example, with my younger one, we just finished the book The Invisible Man by Herbert Wells. And it's basically a book about this genius scientist who ended up being killed in this British village because he went cuckoo and wanted to start killing people.
• 1:19:43
  And I chose that book because it's such a perfect way for me to have this discussion with a boy, right? And he feels lots of compassion for that invisible man and his tragedy, but he definitely doesn't want to be him, right? So that is...
• 1:19:58
  is one side. And another side, which is very important, is I also make sure that I pay a lot of attention to any signs of what their true calling is. Because we are actually hardwired to be very good at certain things. And it can be totally random. Like a child can be great in, you know, music and then in some sports or whatever. They can be very, very specific.
• 1:20:21
  But I like to register what they're genuinely drawn to do. It's usually something that is easy for them and hard for other people because they're hardwired to do that work. So it feels easy for them. And it also feels rewarding. They love doing it.
• 1:20:37
  And then what I do is that I take, they're intrinsically motivated to do that, right? So for them, this is pleasure. So isolate that thing and I start using it as the reward. So for example, my child loves playing chess. Instead of just letting him play chess all day long, because then he'll actually probably get bored and lose interest.
• 1:21:00
  Instead, I tell him, OK, once you've done your homework or whatever it is he doesn't want to do, you can play chess for 20 minutes. And even though I would love him to play chess for six hours because I think it's great. I want him to I want that to be the reward. It also allows me. Flipped it. Exactly. I mean, think about you flipped the thing you want him to do. I make him want it. Yeah.
• 1:21:24
  You make him want to, and you make it into the reward, like, oh no. You know, most parents would be like, you can have the candy after you do all this stuff. You're saying, you can have a little bit of chess. And it allows me to not have extrinsic rewards, right? So every time there is a reward, it's another activity which is intrinsic. This is why I'm hunting for any sign of anything that the child naturally wants to do.
• 1:21:48
  And sometimes they want to do it naturally for a while and then they lose interest. It's normal. They're just developing. Other times it stays, but at least I take advantage of the intrinsic motivation while it lasts because there are always things they don't want to do. And instead of saying, oh, if you do that, you can play computer games, which,
• 1:22:05
  basically something that disrupts their dopamine system and their motivation and everything. I say, great, you know, if you do this, you can play chess for 20 minutes. And then the child is like, oh, can I do 22 minutes? I'm absolutely not. Because then it's reverse psychology, right? Especially for boys, they really want the thing they can't have. So they start negotiating. Okay, but can I then, you know, load the washing machine and have 25 minutes of chess? And I'm like, 22. Yeah.
• 1:22:32
  And it's kind of a fun thing. But the beauty is that is that I get what I actually want, which is him playing chess a lot, but not too much, because I also know that if it's too much, then they lose interest. I think you nailed it so well. My final question is just if you had a daughter, if we had a little wonderful Anastasia Jr., what do you think you'd do?
• 1:22:53
  Well, I think I would speak a different lingo with her. So I would be using words that she would hear about, you know, connection and emotional links and things like that. Rather than, my girl wouldn't care about freedom, probably. If I want to discourage her from employment, I would be telling her about what she could be doing if she's not employed. She could actually, you know, be focusing on building her family or her relationship or helping people. Because, you know.
• 1:23:21
  Girls also start actually feeling compassion much earlier because it's all about connecting. I would pay attention at what works for her. But I would be very surprised if it would be the same language as I use with the boys. And talking about gender, since this was supposed to be the topic of the whole thing,
• 1:23:40
  I'm very focused on helping my boys love being men. Because you don't need to be negative about women to support your boys' masculinity, but just showing them how beautiful it is to be a man, focusing their attention in movies, in cartoons, in books, everywhere. Isn't it absolutely wonderful? And it's funny because sometimes a smaller kid will say, don't you wish you were a boy then?
• 1:24:07
  You often get that. And I said, no, I really, really love being a woman. And this is how they kind of feel much more comfortable in the society, in their own skin. Because at the end of the day, that's what we want. We want them to love who they are and be proud of who they are, naturally. Thank you, guys. That was a lot of fun, as always.
• 1:24:29
  Incredible. Truly, there are a few people that I know have such deep mastery of multiple areas the way you do. Thank you for sharing it. Thank you. Thank you, Nastia. You're my big supporters, I know. Love you both. Love you. Thank you so much. The thing I want to do more than anything is to learn, grow, and figure out my mistakes, my root problems, and upgrade them. And she is a gift to do that. She is giving me these things like, dude, I need to just do the hug more often.
• 1:24:57
  Like when she said it, I was like, that makes so much sense. Just get in for the hug, help regulate, and then discuss it. It's the order that matters. Upgrade it. Or don't discuss it. Yeah, or don't discuss it all. The other one is the full responsibility, right? I mean, I was literally having trouble today on expectations with,
• 1:25:14
  my wonderful lady. And I'm like, well, did that wrong, that wrong, that wrong. Okay, just delete the expectations. Because if I put it on myself, then I can't be disappointed. You know, and if I'm saying, it was just so clear, literally today, this helped me operate better. But to reframe the idea of who we would interview
• 1:25:30
  It's people that we are interested in learning from because we will benefit. And if we are benefiting, we're always going to want to do this. And there's going to be a more natural energy versus we get on a call with Billy down the street. And it's the second or third one. And we're like, Billy, you got scared again, didn't you? Did you tell her how you feel? No? No.
• 1:25:48
  Are you doing these things, Anastasia Sherrod? No? Okay. I don't care anymore. Like, our energy will be off. We won't want to do it. Well, I think that this is also very personal. I don't want to discredit what you really want to do for your life. This became kind of clear when I was at the event of Anastasia. We were, by the way, incredible the way that she did it. It was very, very interesting when Anastasia.
• 1:26:12
  At the end of the event, we were going through a lot of patterns and things. And what I realized is that, so here's what she says, right? What creates a sense of meaning? It creates a sense of meaning when two things happen. We accept responsibility for a concrete task or life problem that is connected to other people. We accept that responsibility.
• 1:26:34
  And we own it fully for as long as it takes. So by doing these two things, we have a sense of meaning. So we accept responsibility for others, basically. And we accept it forever or for as long as it takes. That is what really gives us meaning. And what I realized as the pattern in my life is personal development really changed my life. It's a before and after.
• 1:26:59
  In my life, incredible inflection point since I started working on myself, developing myself. And what I realized is, and I connect so much with Anastasia's phrase that I really connect with, I want to achieve my true potential.
• 1:27:14
  And I also want other people to achieve their true potential. So when I look at my missions, me building ultralife community, what is ultralife community? Well, the wrong answer would be, it's another tiger. It's like, no, ultralife does not compete with anything. Ultralife is the only place that exists for people to realize their true potential.
• 1:27:36
  It's the only gym that exists. Yeah. And why there is some disconnect with some people because, well, they want to take the magic pill rather than put in the work. And we all know that you can really achieve anything meaningful in life unless you really put in the work. And put in the work, sometimes it's exhausting. Sometimes it's tiring. Sometimes we don't want to do it. Painful.
• 1:27:58
  I don't want to do the updates. I just want to, why don't we do, let's do a little bit less. You know, let's just, I am so used to the shit of Tiger that I just, I just want to do that. I don't want to go in deep. Peter, always with your deep questions. Come, stop, stop.
• 1:28:10
  I get that everywhere from everyone. Can't we just talk about baseball? Can't we just talk about basketball? Did you see the game? The other one is this podcast. For me, this podcast is another expression of us working towards realizing our true potential at the same time that we put this out into the world and it's going to connect with the people that are aligned with this.
• 1:28:33
  So what is the challenge that I personally face with interns slash young entrepreneurs that have no proven track record? Is that I don't think that they are. And by the way, you love that. I realized that as an allocator, that's not where I have the most amount of leverage. That's super interesting.
• 1:28:52
  Or the interest, sorry, or both. Let's put it this way, both. Because you may say, well, Pablo, I disagree with you because these are the generations that are way cleaner with way less biases. Therefore, the ground is much more fertile. Therefore, it's way better. Dude, we should plant here. The chances are much bigger. And not that I disagree with the idea, the direction of the idea. I think that is correct. But you and I know that for how long are you going to be following up that person?
• 1:29:20
  This is a really good question. How much do you need to be... This is like taking care of a puppy, taking care of a baby. It depends. Let me crystallize what you're saying. You recognizing something in me, which was, hey, you're spending time with interns. In 90, 80% of scenarios, that was wrong. But I'll flip it and say, in 20%... What do you mean? That was wrong. It was the wrong decision for me. As you challenged me on it, I realized it wasn't my full potential. Here is the distinction.
• 1:29:44
  is it transformational or transactional? If it's just a six-month period, a three-month period, a one-year thing, I never want to do it again. Only with those that I see the potential and path to be a lifelong business partnership relationship person that I want to invest in, when it's that, I don't care if they're 18, 20, 30, 40, that makes sense. And that is my filter. You helped me, you enlightened me, right? Even if I spend six months, I'm putting too much into this. It's when I think this is going to be, I have a 24-year-old, right? That I've
• 1:30:12
  I've supported and I'll work with the rest of my life. Incredible human. He's amazing, right? Would have been as an intern, anything. But it's transformational, not transactional. I am thinking that maybe the way that I think about the leverage, like leverage would be my, this is my input. This is the output. I put very little and the output is massive. And again, this is not transactional. This is not I'm trying to make money or anything whatsoever. In fact, I make zero money. As you totally were just saying. It's money, then I'm losing money. So for me, if I have a conversation with our friend,
• 1:30:42
  where we had one conversation with him. We had one conversation. That's it. Light bulb, problem is solved. He fixed his financials. Now he can go and create incredible things. That to me, the leverage is massive. I can have, let's just say, 15 hours of conversations with Anastasia. And now Anastasia is off to the races, creating events, creating more positive impact to the world.
• 1:31:08
  For an intern to happen, I have to put 2,000 hours, maybe 200 hours, and I have to wait. And maybe something happens. Maybe not. Maybe. What I would say is, yes, in general, you're right. There are these unique cases at every age and every level.
• 1:31:23
  Now, I agree with your statement. As an investor, most of the time, more age experience is going to yield the higher return if you can get them to shift. And I'm just explaining from... But again, this is me. I'm not saying... Right or wrong. I'm not saying that you are wrong. I'm not saying that your approach is wrong. I'm just saying that I realize that...
• 1:31:41
  I don't get any fulfillment placing a bet of 200 hours that will play out in maybe 10 years or maybe five. I prefer to place a bet of 10 hours, 20 hours that will play out in the next months. Yeah, it makes sense. That's my preference. I understand your perspective. I think my different thought would be there's certain kids like ****.
• 1:32:02
  who's a high school age kid that I see that trajectory right now, or another friend who you met that I've supported on a business venture, right? And I watched it. It took off. In both scenarios, I feel very good about it. I agree with that. I agree that these are incredible kids. Incredible. One more time, this is the preference, right? And it's weird because it's not that my preference is I am a short-term investor, right? Yeah. Like I place bets that end up playing in the long term. Decades.
• 1:32:28
  and prove me right in the long term, I personally get much more reward working with people that they have the leverage to create impact way faster.
• 1:32:40
  does not have any leverage. He's an incredible kid. Incredible. Yeah. Mind-blowing. He has zero leverage. You're right. For now, he will eventually. But for now, he doesn't. His brain is focused on making money, succeeding as an entrepreneur, which I love. And by the way, I jumped in a call with him and we spoke about things, but I'm
• 1:33:01
  I don't really want to be the mentor that he picks up the phone and I'm just there coaching him or mentoring him. I don't think that I'm cut out for that. I don't get the reward out of that. I prefer just to work with people that have the leverage. Yeah. And their block is here and I can identify the three blocks and I can give it to them. And then it's like, okay, proof of work. Show me. Do it. Maybe, maybe not. But at least I'm like, that's it. Done. We don't need to repeat the same conversation that we had.
• 1:33:27
  It's like Italian food versus Chinese food. It's now that you're right or wrong or that I'm right or wrong, we just are tapping into internally know thyself. What gets us jacked up? Brother, let's call it a night. Love you. Love you, bro. See ya.