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The Flash Drive - The Big Interview: New Labour Law Changes And How It Affects You · The Flash Drive with Carl Wastie

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Weekday's feet to seven pm A flash drive with Carl
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: West on KFM ninety four five.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I know that when I mentioned this it was a Monday.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: That's there Forgo are looking to change some labor laws.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: You were kind enough to message in and say check here.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I will help you wasty make sense of that. And
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: this is why we are here because apparently they are
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: proposing some changes to a standard forty five hour work week.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: They're looking at making things a bit more flexible for
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: people who are remote workers who also work from home
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: in other spaces. So I wanted to take this down
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: to a level where we can all understand because am
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I right in saying that these are still to be ratified?
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Correct? So this is just a ball that has been proposed.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: So these are proposed amendments and it's up to now
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Parliament to accept it. Okay, signed into law.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: All right, So let's start off with a simple question
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: around You know a lot of talk about the on
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: call availability work. Basically, I need to know this particular
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: bulb if it goes through, what does it say about
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: paying people who must be available but aren't actively working.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I think that's a good place to start to see
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: where we're at especially in defining a remote worker as
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: well as a hybrid worker as well.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: So with that, the bulk tries to now implement protection
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: for on call or available employees. So usually you'll have
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: a contract with an employee that will say, okay, you
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: work Monday to Friday, but it depends on the availability
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: of work, so we will notify you the week before. Okay,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: come in. Okay. Now what the BULB does It tries
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: to provide more protection to an employee or ease in
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: that type of situation by saying, as an employee, you
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: need to give guaranteed minimum hours. So whether you're waiting
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: to be on call on standby on Monday to Friday,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: you're guaranteed hours is five hours for arguments sake, So
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: that means you need to have a contract that's stipulots. Okay,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: you would be worked for five hours Monday to Friday,
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: regardless of whether there's work or not.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is very clear, and I'm glad that's there
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: because I know a lot of people are left in
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: limbo because they are on calls but never get that call,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: or perhaps get too many calls. So essentially that contract
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: will allow an employer an opportunity to say, this week coming,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: you'll have five hours on your schedule, and they would
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: need to adhere to that because that's a contractually binding thing,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: isn't it correct?
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: But there is another that which because usually with these
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: on call employees, employees would notify your last minute, okay,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: there's no need for you to come into work tomorrow.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Now there's a provision which a further protection for employees
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: where it makes provision for cancel the work. Now, say example,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: the employee contacts you last minute, okay, don't come in,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: there's no work for you today, they are still obligated
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: to pay you for that day unless you provide reasonable notice.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: So the amendment makes provisions that an employee has to
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: provide a reasonable notice period as to when work is
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: going to be canceled. So it really depends on industry
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: to industry. For example, let's just take the beauty industry. Here.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: In beauty, a lot of these are employees works on
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: bookings or appointments, So with them, a one day notice
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: would be sufficient. But you have other industries, for example,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: where you work seasonal periods where for example, festive season,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: a restaurant is going to be more busy than the
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: rest of the year. For example, Let's make an example.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Then you can tell that employee maybe in two months
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: in advance saying, okay, this is your notice. Are going
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: to be your adjusted working hours for that period.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Okay. But I like the notice periods because some people
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: have to get babysitters and things have to be moved
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: around their lives only for them to be canceled. That's
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: very good protection for employees. So that's that's the first
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: green flag on these which is very very important. I
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: think I want I want to jump in very quickly
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: with regard to a contract, because I think that a
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: lot of people who are under the employee of others
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily have a traditional contract, and I think that's
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: where things often get very gray. So your recommendation for
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: employers to get contracted up, because I'm just saying, in
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Cape Town, for instance, there are a lot of people
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: who are kind of just working, you know, they work
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: in their hours at this premises and that's it, but
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: there's no contract. So I think it's a good opportunity
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: for you perhaps to tell people, especially employers, a contract
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: is necessary to ensure that people are under your employee.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one hundredcent correct in terms of in terms
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: of the current DCA, and it is none being amended
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: the easy provision in terms of day that stipulates that
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: you have to give written particulars of your employment terms
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: to your employee, which essentially just means you have to
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: give your employee a written contract, and as an employee,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: you can de mind your employer for that, Otherwise you'd
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: take them to the CCM demanding a formal contract.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I wanted to say that for a good reason. And
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: you know why. You know that there are many employers
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: who do not have this written agreement in place. They
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: have a handshake, They're like, oh, we like you here,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: you can come work here. It's not enough, especially if
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: these things are going to be put through government and ratified.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: I want to make sure people are protected. But let's
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: move on for a second, because I know that severance
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: pay is another sort of gray area for so many
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: and apparently they're going to be increasing severance pay. Am
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I right? In understanding that severance pay in the past,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I would say, here is your section one eight nine.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: You are no longer needed with the company, or something
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: has happened. Company, can employee anymore, So you need to
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: get a severance from them. Now, Am I right in
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: saying that? In the past, you would pretty much be
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: given as a severance pay package one week for every
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: year you've worked at the company of pay? Is that correct?
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: That is what I'm saying, correct, And now it's changing
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: to what so.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: They doubling up on that. You will be getting two
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: weeks sevants instead of one. So the reason behind this
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: is that what a lot of employees usou told do
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: is that when they anticipate retrenchment, right, yeah, well, it's
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: one week reimunilation for every completed year of service and
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: then obviously your notice period and your accrued leave that
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: you haven't taken yet. That's the standard minimum. But then
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: what employees do say, okay, we need to give you
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: two weeks, but then you have to sign a retrenchment agreement.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: That agreement it will then say you forfeit your employment right.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: Essentially you can't refer as matter to these or the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: labor court anymore. So that was a tricky thing a
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: lot of employees used to do. Now I think the
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Minutes of Labor has actually picked up on that, and
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: I'm making a new minimum two weeks instead.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: So this is a very good one in terms of
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: don't try your tricks, please look after the people who
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: have given so much and sacrifice so much under your
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: employee to make you get great bottom lines at the
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: end of every year. I like where this is going
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: so far. Let's talk about a big one in South
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Africa particularly, and that is minimum wage rules. Apparently these
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: are being tightened. I'd like to know how are these
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: going to be changed. I did a couple of you know,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: read a couple of paragraphs on it, but just to
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: break it down, minimum wage. Where are we sitting there?
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: So currently with minimum wage? I think it's now been
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: amended as a first of March though literally Sunday it's
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: now thirty ran thirty some couple of sens. So what
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: employees usould do with minimum wage was that they had
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: an x amount for example, your say, example say minimumas
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: is not that duran, but they'll say you're getting paid
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: say twenty five rand, but the balance of five ran
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: is being made up in other benefits for example a
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: traveler allowance or something or another, think contribution and something yeah,
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: like in kind benefits me it's not cash man if
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: it's for example, like a meal or like a lunch
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: meal or something like that that contributes towards your daily remuneration.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: So instead of it's being twenty five and I goes
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: up to thirty five rand. Now, what the minimum wage
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: rules provide for is that the benefits that you get
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: is excluded from that calculation. So thirty ran it should
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: be the base thirty rand as your minimum wage. Whatever
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: is added as benefit is excluded from that calculation for
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: purpose of minimum wage.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I love that, So no longer can employers say, don't
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: forget the gaspear I bought to you. So that's why
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: it's twenty right now? Like no ah, no, Now, I'm
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: liking the fact that there are those types of things
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: that are giving boundaries so that employees can be protected.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: I want to wrap up on this, and this is
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: the overtime topic. It's hotly contested. I chatted about it,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: you know, and a lot of people love to call
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: people at all sorts of times and get them on
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: call as quick as possible. So how does overtime work
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: right now? And what changes would this bill actually bring
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: for both workers and employees. Starting off with how it
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: works now, so we know what the changes are like, so.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: What's regards to overtime These you work set out hours, right,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: and usually the forty five hour work week, right, that
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: would be ninety five ninety six depending on whether your
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: lunch is paid or not or something like that, and
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: then you have your overtime. Okay, your overtime is one
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: point five times rumineration, right. But there is a caveat
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: with overtime pay, and it all depends on how much
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: you've are earning at the time. So in most contracts,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: when you earn above the earning threshold, right, So the
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: earning thresholds, it's different to the minimum wage. So this
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: gets published every year by the Minister of Employment. And
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: I think we do now want April twenty twenty sixth
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: of the new range, but currently it's about twenty one
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: thousand n twenty one point eight thousand. Okay. If you
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: earn above that threshold, you as an employer can locally
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: ask your employee to work over time without compensation for overtime,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: but obviously it needs to be by agreement, and usually
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: it will be in your employment contract that stipulates that
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: employee agrees to work over time. Okay, then the employee
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: doesn't have to. The employer does not have to pay
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: you for overtime, but if you earn below the threshold,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: you are entitled to overtime pay. Okay, Like I said,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: it's one point five times in normal muneration. But now
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: going forward with the new bowl, it doesn't really impact
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: in such a big way because the bowl on the
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: hours really only impacts on the call out employees. So available,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: so if you working, for example, in mentioned earlier that
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: the employeers have to agree with the employee on the
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: minimum working hours for that day or for that period.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: So example, it's five hours a day that's on the
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: base based minimum that you have to work whether you
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: work or not. But now if you work above that
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: five hours, then that say six or seven hours will
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: be overtime. Although in ordinary working days eight hours. So
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: that's a bonus for those call out employees where they
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: have to work over time.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. Interesting. I'll be honest with you, I did
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: not know about that whole twenty one eight hundred things.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: And then your company being able to say work over
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: time without compensation, it's news to me.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, it's a lot of people don't know about that,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: but it all comes down to what's in your employment contract.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: So if your employment contract stipulates you agree to work
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: over time, that's usually for those individuals that earn about
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: the earning threshold. But if you work, if you own
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: below twenty one thousand, and your employer asks you to
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: work over time, they entitled you must be paid one
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: point five times for that additional hours.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you for breaking this down for us. I think
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: it's great. I hope it gets ratified. It seems to
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: look after the employee, which is very important in my focus.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: So I want to make sure people are safe. But
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: while I have you, I have some anecdotal questions. Just
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: while I have you, these are just these are extras. Okay,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: I'm just just hear me out. You may think I'm weird,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: but you're welcome to all right, tell me about So
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I don't smoke, and my my colleague smokes. Right, there's
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: smoke breaks kind of on the equivalent of one hour
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: where I don't smoke. So I'm not going to get
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: an hour as well to go outside and have an enchi.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: So has labor law ever turned its head to that.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I'm just I'm asking. It's an anecdotal question. But I
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: need to ask this question. I just want to know,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: like says, because I feel like this is the reason
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: why people start they start vaping, so the vapor doesn't
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: have nicotine in it, because so they can also just
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: get compensated for that time. So I just want to know, like,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: you know, what, what does labor laws say about smoke breaks?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: So that's a valid point, which I don't think it's
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: addressed by many companies or include.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: You see, this is why do this job, This is
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: why I'm here. I'm here for my people, all right, now,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: tell me what's happening.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: So technically, technically when you take your smoke breaks, so
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: I'm just take a say, back work when you have
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: so the m exclusion es entitled to one hour meal
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: interval for one day's work, right, yes, But usually what
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: companies or most employees do, they will split that up.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: You so you have a fifteen minute meal, lunch time
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: or whatever, and then you have two firsteen minute breaks
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: sometimes first in the tea breaks in between, right, and
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: that is where people's supposed to go for their smoke breaks.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Oh really yeah, but some companies don't really are not
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: really so strict on enforcing smoking break as part of
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: that fifteen minute tea break or whatever the case may be.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: So look, if you, as a gruntled employee, you feel
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: that some employee is taking more smoke breaks than those,
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: then as a employee, it's up to you if you
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: want to make a complaint for the employee your ways, sorry.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: A strategic complaint, you know. And then they're gonna tell
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: me what's what's good for the goose is good for
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the gander call. So what they're going to do is
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: they're going to say, now, now everybody is now entitled
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: to more tea breaks or these little and now they're
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: going to call it five minutes pause breaks so that
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: you can take five minutes and get some fresh air
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and come back into the building. Or I would trade
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: it for naps in some industries where if someone's going
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: to go have an eenchy, I'm entitled too to the
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: accumulative amount of time they take to smoke the engines
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: to the day, that equivalent time will be my nap.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: And I think that could work nicely, right, Yeah.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: But like five minutes is not enough. It takes a
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: five minutes get out of a cumulative.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So I'm saying a cumulative. So they just let to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: go press the elevator, go down stairs, go to the
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: desnet smoking area. By that time we're at forteen minutes.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I get a forty minute nap during my day to
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: convince it. I think that's fair. I'm not a labor lawyer,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: but I am. I am a man of the people,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: and I think that if you are not smoking, you
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: should be napping.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: I'll fight for that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. You're most welcome. I will you
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: know that that came down that you know we're up
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: for a new leadership. Who knows, I might just put
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: my hand in, you know, put my little hat in
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: the in the ring anyway. Last one, I know it's weird, okay,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: but I'm a mad of the people. If I'm intimate
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: and fasting, I don't need a lunch break. And if
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a lunch break is a total of an hour, can
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I leave an hour earlier?
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: You can, but that will be subject to your employer
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: agreeing to that. So a lot of quite a few
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: companies are more flexible on that front, where okay, okay,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: we're not going to take your lunch break, work in
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: your lunch, then you can leave our earlier, thank you,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: But it depends on the company's requirement.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I understand, I understand, but I just wanted to make
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: sure that's out there as an option for someone because
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of people do intermittent fasting. Then
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: they don't really need to eat, they don't need a
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: lunch break, you know, they need to pause, they can
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: continue grafting, and then you go home at four or three.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's on think correct.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Perfect. Thank you man. I have many more questions, but
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: we don't have any more time, so I want to
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: say thank you so much for getting involved and for
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: helping us make sense of all of this. It's a
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: slippery slope for so many and I've known that that's
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: some employees. They do get exploited by certain gray areas.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: But as long as that this particular ball is going
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: to sort that out, we can continue working. And it
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: also modernizes traditional employment situations, which is exactly what we
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: need to do in the future, which I'm happy about.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks for your time today. I appreciate it. I'm going
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: to go take a nap enjoy off.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Just weekdays three to seven pm. It's a flash drive
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: with Karl Lacy on KFM ninety four point five