Latest / Pod Therapy / #357: Friend Dating a Sexual Predator, Making My Own Decisions

Transcript

#357: Friend Dating a Sexual Predator, Making My Own Decisions · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The naked ladies dance through the hole in the wall.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: We oh, oh, look at you.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: It's actually pronounced with there's two different.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: You can there's there's two different. It's the kind of
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: a more informs.
• 0:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: This episode is made possible by our therapy partners, Dirty
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Media and pickets from Fabulous Las Vegas. That is just
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: pot therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists. You
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: can submit your questions anonymously at pod therapy dot net
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: or email. It's at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: And now broadcasting from the Churn. That's Jim, that's Whitney
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: for some pot therapy and show. How do you say hello?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: In Italian?
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: Salve is the formal way to say hello?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: That's it?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Wow? How much? How much Italian did you pick up?
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: How many Italians did you go?
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: That's the better question. Yeah, metrical taxi driver, he's a
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: little older.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: It's fine. It's fine. When in Rome at Peter's just staring.
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: Rolling his eyes out the window.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Jesus.
• 1:25
  Speaker 5: No. It was fun. Since my cousin's husband was there
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: and he spoke some Italian. We mostly just let him
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: do the weeding through chatting with people and he speaks
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: Spanish fluently, so when he gets stuck, he just kind
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: of flipped a Spanish and that got him through.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Wow, okay, welcome back. We had fun not being supervised
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: for a while. They're too bad parties over everybody, So yeah,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: Mom's back.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I can't FuG around anymore.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: But if you would like to hear all about Whitney's
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: fun Italian journey and.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Catch a few racial slurs a long.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Way, go down to patreon dot com slash therapy you
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: can hear all about it. It was quite the event,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: and she brought us some delicious wine, which.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: We're all enjoying.
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: The Tornado Wine.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: The Tornado Winery Iowa's finest wine in East Texas. Very nice, though,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: this is do you do you all like a darker wine?
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Is that is that your jam? I?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I mean I would say like a dryer okay, wine,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I've kind of gotten into those. It's been a long
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: time though, since I drank wine.
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: Drink wine like cigars? Is that a thing?
• 2:37
  Speaker 6: No?
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Whiskey usually do whiskey with a cigar. I'll even do
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: beer with a cigar. But yeah, yeah, I've never done wine.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Do you do wine very much? I? Never see you
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: order wine.
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: I know I I like wine, but it's not my
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: go to.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: It's if you are ordering wine, what are you getting?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Is it dark?
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: I do like like a cab like a cabin or
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: I like.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the chardonnay. That's if I have to
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: do wine.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: Ordered one of our tastings, we did order a bunch
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: of chardonnay, like bordered a case to be shipped because
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: the shipping was free. That's pretty six bottles or something.
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: I was like, yes, and there was a really good chardonnay.
• 3:25
  Speaker 7: Six bottles at Yeah, over five people that one guy
• 3:32
  Speaker 7: gets paid a lot six bottles of wine. I'm gonna
• 3:36
  Speaker 7: need to warm up.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: There there.
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: That was so good, it was so smooth. It was
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: just sometimes Chardenay has a bite to it to me.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: So it was so good. I was like, we're getting
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: a bunch of those because yes.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jacob, what kind of wine is your go to?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I am not a big wine person.
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I like an I I mean, I like an
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: ice red, but sometimes I like.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: A nice white. I've had mascott. I like both kinds.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Oh Moscato's candy.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: It's sugar.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: It's just always easy though, like You're just like, I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: just want something to sip on and I don't want
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: to wonder if I'm gonna like it.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, get mescato.
• 4:15
  Speaker 6: I'll drink wine usually if I'm out with wine friends,
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: you know, I have I have friends that are that
• 4:20
  Speaker 6: are big wine experts and everything, and they'll order bottles
• 4:23
  Speaker 6: of wine.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll drink whatever they're handing. Tastings are fun.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I like it whenever it's it's part of the environment.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: But if you're just going out.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't usually disorder, Like high.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: End wine is just lost on me.
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, kind of Once once I hit a threshold once,
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: I like a kind of a niceness threshold. Well, you know,
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: it's just like, oh this this is, you know, from
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: a fifty dollars bottle of wine.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I go, well, that's really good.
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and then somebody else hands raised Yeah, like that's
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: also really good.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm not sure if it's two hundred and fifty
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: dollars more good.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know how between these.
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I just I just don't know about wine.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would probably drink wine more than whiskey
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: at home if I had wine. Okay, I just don't
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: buy it, but like you know, I've got I've got
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: a few bottles of whiskey and I'll touch them every
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: once in a while, but pretty rare.
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: You have to drink kind of like you have to
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: like drink it when you open it. It's kind of
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: like a lot of pressure. So unless you have four
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: people or you know, more than two, if it's just
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: too you're kind of weirdly.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: That doesn't slow my wife down.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: She seems unbothered by it, but I would. When you're Italian.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're Italian, keister wine comes in, bring some,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: you know, because.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I will, Yes, I will actually bring all of it in.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Bring the Italians who brought it all the same.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Fine, they're impressive bells.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: We've got some great questions for the show, and the
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: first one is a heavier one. Let's dive into it, afraid.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: My best friend is dating a sexual predator. Hey, friends,
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I love your podcast. The topics you all cover in
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: how you do so with humor and humility are so important.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Thank you for doing this gig in addition to your
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: emotional day jobs. My best friend, we'll call her Annie,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: forty five years old and I also forty five, have
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: been close for almost forty years. We're very much like sisters.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: We grew up together where college roommates, then lived only
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: three and a half hours away from each other until
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: about ten years ago, when I, a mental health professional,
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: finished grad school and moved from the South to New England.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Even though we are fifteen hundred miles away from each other,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: we make it a priority to spend time together throughout
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: the year. We've been by each other's sides and often
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: joke that couples can only be so lucky to have
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: a marriage like ours.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: All that's cute.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: A few years ago, I discovered that Annie was having
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: an affair with my single, older brother, who lives in
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: our hometown. She had gone home to visit her dad,
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: who was in the ICU, had dinner and drinks with
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: my brother to get away from the stress, and they
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: ended up hooking up. The affair continued, they were convinced
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: that they were in love and wanted to spend their
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: lives together. She followed for divorce from her husband the
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: next month. A week after her divorce was finalized, she
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: and my brother broke up. She flew to New England
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: to spend Valentine's Day with me and my husband. While
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: at my house for the week, she downloaded Tinder. I
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: was not supportive of this decision, as she gets emotionally
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: attached quite quickly, no emotional attachment to her father, married
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: her husband within months of her mother dying, et cetera.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Her intention was to flirt with some guys without expectations.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: She matched with a guy called Sean who was witty smart.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Sean who was witty smart and was a massive love bomber.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: They exchanged numbers when she flew home. Against my advice,
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: in April, we went on our annual vacation to visit
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: our other best friend who lives out of the country.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: While she was incredible intoxicated, had to be carried out
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: of a five star hotel restaurant after drinking too much
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: and vomiting all over herself at our table. During brunch book,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: she shared her text message exchanges with Sean. They were
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: very sexual, example him asking her to sleep with a
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: guy we just met at a bar so he could
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: watch Nike's naked images, exchanged phones first Star, et cetera.
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: So much, that's why you don't fuck with people named Sean.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Sean, Well, don't fuck Sean so much so that both
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: my friend, his partner, and I were very concerned and
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: shared this with her at length. She and I continued
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: talking about how dangerous and irresponsible her decisions have been
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: over the last several months. While on our twelve hour flight,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I did some digging and Sean's only online existence was
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: a LinkedIn profile with no photo in one job educational consultant.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Is he friends with?
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Jim? I think he is everybody.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Bultimately I ended up with that LinkedIn I'm everybody's LinkedIn
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: friend as he only lives in from me. I asked
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: everyone I knew who worked in education if they knew
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: this guy.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Nothing.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: A month later, Annie found him online. As you could
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: probably guess, the dude's name is not Sean. He was
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: a former teacher who has been on house arrests since
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty one and charged with grooming, sexually assaulting, and
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: raping one of his female students from the time she
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: was eleven years old until she was seventeen years old. Yes,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: trigger warning, thanks Jim, yep got in there late, but
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: there it is. His trial continued being pushed.
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: Back from everybody who introduces themselves as Sean is lying
• 9:35
  Speaker 6: about what their real name is yeah.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Nobody's action wants name.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: His trial continued being pushed back from twenty twenty one
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: to September of twenty four. Annie was devastated. A few
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: days after discovering this. She wanted to call him on it.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: I begged her to just block him and work on
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: moving forward and grieving the loss of her marriage, family, structure,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: relationship with my brother, and focus on rebuilding her relationship
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: with her son. We disclosed that she and Sean had
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: sent almost eight thousand messages in the fifty nine days
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: they had known each other. At this point, she had
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: finally started seeing a therapist and promised me that she
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: would block him, and even sent me the screenshot showing
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: that she had. Fast forward to June, she surprises me
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: with a visit for my birthday. Doesn't speak a word
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: of Sean. We had a lovely weekend. She also surprised
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: me with a trip to Europe to see one of
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: our favorite bands in July, which was absolutely amazing and
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: beyond generous. This was totally unexpected. She loves giving gifts,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: but this was really over the top. Things got busy
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: in the fall and we weren't connecting via phone as much,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: but still text. I was scheduled to fly down to
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: go to a concert with her at the end of September.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: She was being flighty and changing plans. I felt that
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: there was more to the story, but assumed she was
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: spending a lot of time with her son and rebuilding
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: their relationship, as that's what most of our conversations were about.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: On a Friday night, I received a text from her
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: that read, He's not guilty. I can't talk right now,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: but I have so much to fill you in on
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: about Sean. I was sick. She tells me that she
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: had never stopped talking to him, was in love with him,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: and believed him and his story, which was that the victim,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: a young girl at the time now twenty, was obsessed
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: with him when he began cheating on her mom. She
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: made up the whole story to get back at him.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It didn't sound
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: like Annie speaking. She told me that she had been
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: speaking to her therapist about Sean this entire time, and
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: even she didn't see any red flags. I tried everything
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I could to help her see that she had been
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: manipulated this entire time. She was unable to even discuss
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: the thought that even though he was not convicted of
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: the crime because there was quote no proof, doesn't mean
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: he didn't do it. She was unable to even discuss
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the fact that less than five percent of those who
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: are charged with sexual assault are actually found guilty. She
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: was unable to even discuss that we know stories like
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: the one he has told are the are the reason
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: victims do not report their assaults. But she was able
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: to tell me to fuck off after I tried explaining
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: to her that she has been in a crisis state
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: since last October. My last words to her were, I
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: cannot and will not support you in this. I haven't
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: spoken with her since that night, which was almost six
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: weeks ago. My initial reaction was that I'm going to
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: build my own case against this guy. Following my comments
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: on a local news social media post about the not
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: guilty verdict, the victims aunt connected with me. Then the
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: victim and her mother. Her story hurts my heart and
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I wish I had a magic wand to fix it.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: I believe her, her former teachers that testified on the
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: prosecution's behalf believe her DCF, which I think is probably
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: Department of Children, Family Services believes her, but Annie is
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: convinced that Sean was wrongfully accused.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: So my question to you all, what in the hell
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: do I do.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: I'm furious that my best friend lied to me about
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: blocking him, and even hid from me while we were
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: in Europe so she could text him. I'm frustrated to
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: have to watch her make more impulsive decisions that not
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: only impacts her but her kid. I'm irritated that when
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: this all falls apart, it will be me having to
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: pick up the pieces, which is what I've continuously done
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: for her. I'm sad to watch someone I love so
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: much care so little about themselves. I'm scared because I
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: truly feel that he is guilty and that she, too
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: is being abused. I feel selfish for thinking that her
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: extravagant birthday gift to me was to make her feel
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: better for lying to me. I feel guilty because I
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: feel like I've given up on her again. I'm so sorry.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: This is so terribly long.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Signed j WOOE.
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: That a a lot a lot of teas.
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it doesn't seem like anything we need
• 13:55
  Speaker 6: to cover.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: Move it on trivia.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Well, at least we're right about the Sean thing. Yeah, like,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I'm glad we came out fast. And have we ever
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: been wrong about the Sewan thing?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: When we take a hard stand based on only a name,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: we're anti Sean. I think we we always land on
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: our feet. So Sean thing worked, even though apparently his
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: name is not really Sean.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Well that's true. Nobody's nobody's real name is Sean. Yeah, clearly. Yeah,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: if we haven't learned anything else, Yeah, we've learned that.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So you don't.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: You don't have a script in front of you, Jacobs,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: You have to do entirely off of my voice. How
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: do you feel the name Sean is spelled?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Oh? Okay? Oh wow, see I was gonna say, uh, no,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I think this is the right way. You think this
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: is the s h A W N.
• 14:40
  Speaker 8: No, I think most people are a This is a
• 14:47
  Speaker 8: Oh yeah, sure, yeah.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: No, that's the W. The W is shown.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: All right, let's hear it with you then. Oh see,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: now I don't know. I'm just fuck you with your
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: criticism of I feel like.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: S E A N like Sean Bean is is. That's
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: very confusing.
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: I also know a guy in town whose name is
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: spelled s c A N and he pronounces it scene.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Right, it rhymes. That's correct, he works he works for PIFF.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: He's correct.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: That guy's on the right side of this anyway, great question, writer,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: thanks for writing in.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: All right, So Whitney, let's talk about getting a few
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: weeks Whitney handles.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Jesus, let's get the rust out of you. So let's
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: talk about this friendship and getting so invested.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on this?
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: I was trying to put my soul where do you
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: want to start? I know that's part of the part
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: of the thing. The Sean thing was a great place
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: to start, but second place to go. I was trying
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: to put myself in the writer's shoes because I do
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: have a really good friend. They have gone through all this.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: But I was like, man, I have a person in
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: my life who I feel like I would be like,
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: you're my sister, and if they took the turns that
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: this person is taking Annie is taking, Oh my gosh.
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: I feel like it's easy, reading it out loud, to
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: just jump to like, oh, well, let her live her
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: life and if she wants to do that, then fine,
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: because you have no control over it. Sure, Yeah, that's
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: like the obvious go to very easy to say, but
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: when it is somebody who you are so close to, yea,
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: how do you balance like being there for them resenting
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: being there for them because you feel like they do
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: this over and over again. But with people we love,
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: especially you guys working in addictions, with people we love,
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: they do they do her full things over and over again,
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: and there's still people in their lives who who stick
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: it out and stick with them.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I think this is a good example too of how
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: what often happens when you set a lot of these
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: like hard boundaries. The person's immediate response isn't going to
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: be I mean, if they're if they feel this strongly
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: about something, whether it's a person or a substance, if
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: they feel this strongly about it, their first reaction isn't
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: going to be like, Okay, I will stop doing this
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: so that I can maintain a relationship with you. It's
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: all you're going to do is you're just going to
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: try to find a way to push it underground, right,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: so it's not seen, so I can have the sea
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: correct YEA.
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: Something that also came to mind is kind of a
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: like cults. Yeah, you know, when you see a friend
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: or family member you like, get sucked into something. Culty
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: do we have to be a super serious one. But
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: you're like, what are you doing? Or this is unhealthy,
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: this is hurtful, you're being manipulated and all these things.
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: But they are their own adult.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like they're getting really into like bts or whatever,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: and you're like, this is when.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: I was actually thinking about that. TikTok Cole was the
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: Netflix documentary, Oh, the sex one.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: They're all sex ones like X I I one or
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: whatever like to do with sex.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: This one's a dancing one, mainly dancing. There's still little
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: sex stuff, but mostly just dancing.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, mostly it's danancing is.
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: Dancing in religion.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: You know what it is?
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: Religion? Yeah, no, it's uh yeah like five M or five.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I believe it's a brand.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: Okay, Well, so I thought about that because the whole
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: show is about like this family who was super close
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: and then one of the daughters gets kind of sucked
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: in and there it's it's like makes you feel crazy
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: because you're like, we had this whole relationship, we have
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: this history together, and you're just leaving it all for
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: this random seemingly random to you think, But how do
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: you get the person back or how do you change things?
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's so interesting because like it's interesting that
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: the writer J is a mental health professional, yes, and
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: is saying like Annie is seeing a therapist. And I
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: think that we can all appreciate the weird juxtaposition of this, right,
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: because like, if I'm in that therapist's shoes, I'm not
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: going to blow whistles very hard on Sean, because then
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Nanny's going to do to me what she's doing to you. Yeah,
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: And I need to at least be in the fucking
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: cave with her in case shit really gets bad that
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: I'm close enough in proximity to grab her off the
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: fucking train tracks, right, So like somebody's got to wander
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: into the cave with her at least to be near.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: And it happens with teens that I work with because
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: the parents like, oh my gosh, you're like, she says,
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: you just agree with her.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Why are you correcting her? I'm got plenty of that.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: My job is, yeah, correct her. My job is to
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: sit in the cave with her.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: This happens all the time, though, like when friends and
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: family of the patient are concerned because they're like, she's
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: clearly doing this toxic thing. She's clearly in a bad relationship.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: This guy has all these red flags. What are you doing, therapist?
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: And like it's and I don't hear Jay saying that,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: but I know that there are listeners thinking that, and
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: it comes up a lot, and it's a tough thing,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: you know, for us to explain to them that, like,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: you deeply misunderstand the amount of authority I have in
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: this person's life. I'm not a referee, I'm not a judge.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I'm not the one that's gonna say this. And they're
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: gonna be like, you're right, Nick, I'm gonna take it
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: completely on your authority that I'm just gonna no longer
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: be in love with Sean.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you, you as the therapist, can't change the behavior.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: All you're really doing is you're teaching the client. Oh
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I can't talk about this stuff to Jim, Right, Yeah,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: that's that's all that's happening. Now, we're just lying, same
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: behaviors are gonna happen. You're just the therapist. Isn't gonna
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: know about it? Well?
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: And it's easy you could just think about, like, if
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: you are doing something in your life that you really
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: enjoy doing, what kind of friend like what level of
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: friend would have to come to you and be like, hey,
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: on my word, don't do that thing anymore.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Right, You're just gonna have to take it, even though
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: you don't see what I see.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: My authority alone needs to be enough. And I'm gonna
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: try to convince you.
• 20:59
  Speaker 6: Think about like, that doesn't sound like a parent would
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: be able to pull that off.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: That doesn't sound most loved ones.
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: Well, but you got to have a really special place
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: in someone's life, like insanely special.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would argue it's not possible, and they might
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: not be well. This this also goes back to something.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: That's one of those things that may have literally never happened.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: No, probably not, because like even when you think about
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: what therapists do, it oftentimes we are professional mind changers
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: and that is a very delicate, unique process that that
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: we cannot do without your consent.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: You have to want us to do that.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: And even when you come in and say I really
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: need to stop using these drugs, you're still gonna tell
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: us I keep using these drugs. And if we look
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: at you and go stop using the drugs, so you're
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: gonna be like, well, I'm just not going to tell
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: you about this. So you literally paid me to come
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: in here and help you stop using them, and even
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: that person, yeah, just say no, you know, like it
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: takes so much influence and the way that we have
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: to do it is such a light touch that and
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: ultimately does work because we can create a safe space
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: for somebody to doubt it themselves. Like if I never
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: come out against Sean, then I give you space to
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: vent about when you are upset at Sean and and
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: like you're you know, if I'm your therapist, then you
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: can talk to me about it, be like, so, how
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: are things going with Sean lately, Whitney, And for you
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: to be able to say, well, you know, sometimes he
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: asked me to do some sexual things that like I'm
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: not always comfortable with. But but he's a really great guy, Jim,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, I know he is. He's a sweetheart.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: You kind of like I'm on.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Your side, and like, yeah, you you know how Shan's sweetheart.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: I know, I know, but you know, I think that
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: you've also told me that Sean Sean has a spicy side,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: and you know it's okay that you're right, and so
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: we're gonna and then they'll be like, he's the good Sean.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah you get it, Jim, I mean, and they tell
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: you Sean has a spicy side. The other day he
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: was taking a little far and be like, well it's
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: a well Whitney, tell me more about that, like you know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: and just just so you know, I know who Sean.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: You know, you've you've told me who he really is.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: I know his heart, I know how you feel about him.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: But hey, we're grown up, so we can talk about this.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: And you know, I want your relationship with Sean to
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: be healthy, So tell me more and like, well, you
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: know he wants me to sleep with a random streng
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: anger at a bus stop, Like okay, how do you
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: feel about that? And like, now that the opportunity for
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: mind change exists because she is disarmed and now she
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: can talk about it. A therapist can do that. That
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: is the old friend fucking can't.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: That is the only way Annie's mind is going to
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: change on this is if Annie chooses to change her.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Mind on it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's the only way that that environment is possible
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: is in that therapeutic rapport that is non judgmental and
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: gets back to those Rudgerian principles But this is where
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I think it's really hard to be Annie or not Annie,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: but Jay, Because, as Whitney was.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Just saying the writer, yes we can.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, as three therapists and a sophisticated life coach for
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: the doctor, thank you, we can all sit here and
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: say there's.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Really no reason to name or itemize them.
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: The many many critics around, they're just flowsy with him.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: But like as as therapists, we can sit here and
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: say that's what it takes to change the person. And
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: yet if we were in Jay's position, we would be
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: completely incapable of offering that kind of relationship. Yeah, and
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: that's the dynamic. I'm too attached to you as a therapist.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: I'm prepared to watch you destroy your life and stand
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: there whenever you're ready to talk about it. And I
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: can detach enough that I care about you and I
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: want to see you succeed. But I'll give you the
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: dignity of risk. But if you're like a sister to
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: me and we grew up together and I love you,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: I think of you as family therapists or not trained
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: or not, I don't think I can sit here and watch.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: And so I understand from Jay's perspective and kind of
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: what you were saying when you were humanizing Jay and saying, look,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: Jay probably knows better academically, but she's too close to this.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: And this is why, even if you're a completely trained therapist,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: if it's your family, your friends, we're powerless to help.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really hard. I mean, is there anything to
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: do besides just be there for the friend?
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Man, this is so tough.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Would you Okay, I don't blame Jay, So I want
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: to talk about how a mess Jay is. Right, We
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: got to talk about this because Jay is taking so
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: much onus to the point where Jay is looking to
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: prosecute social media. Jay is starting to knock on doors
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: that sound like stalking. And even if you're stalking a
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: bad person, you're not a fucking Netflix documentary crew doing
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: special and you can't do this.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I would just point out to do that if you're
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: a documentary crew either, you can't do illegal things as
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: a documentary. This is a good point. I would just
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: point out here that from Jay's perspective, that seems like
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: a logical step to take for someone to care about
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: you're protecting.
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: To do something.
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: I want to do something, and so like I can't
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: be passive about this scenario. I have to be active.
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: The one thing I can do is find out about
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: this Sean.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: This is this is all about person because all of us,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I think, from the outside looking at this kind of
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: are on the same page. Well like, Okay, yeah, there's
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: not a whole lot you can do here. You getting
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: active and trying to create your own case and prosecute
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: that case. Like all of us from the outside are
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: looking at that and saying like, yeah, it's probably not
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: a good idea. Nothing positive is really going to come
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: from that. But I also can appreciate that from Jay's perspective, right,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: that all makes complete sense.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: I'm not arguing that it's not logical to Jay, but
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: from the outside looking in, I want to grab her
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: and say, hey, you're descending into the cave and this
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: isn't going to lead to healthy places.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: It hasn't.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: It's led to your friend getting further from your friend
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: fixed the paper into their problem, so we are not
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: getting any better results.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I mean also, I mean there's kind of to be
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: a tracker.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: On this guy and get them arrested, Like it's too much.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: This phenomena that happens like with with debates. Yeah, where
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: when you have a debate with someone, people just become
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: more entrenched in their own positions. Like and I kind
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: of wonder if some of that too, is going to
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: like hypothetically, if if everything goes perfectly as Jay one
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: and she's able to dig up all of this dirt
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: and she's able to have a clear cut case with evidence, right,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: he did this. I don't think Annie is going to
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: look at that and be like, oh shit, you're right.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: It was not a lack of evidence. That was not
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: exactly because because information doesn't change mine. No, Like, that's
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: what we've learned that.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: That's a great book you should read on the topic,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: is How Mine's Changed, you Know, by David McCraney, a
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: great book that we're reading because we're probably going to
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: get a chance to visit with him in the future.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: And in that book he talks a lot about all
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: the science that goes into mind change and how unequivocally
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: we have data that shows us minds do not change
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: when presented with that, or they change based on feelings.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: If I feel and that's another thing too, If I'm
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: in love with somebody, if I have a family member
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: who becomes a criminal and they are a bad person,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: but they are my bad person. And you're like, you
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: need to get away from that bad person.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Jim.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: You're asking me to do so some thing that I
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: will not do. And my brain is going to go
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: through logical gymnastics to justify and rationalize what my heart
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: already decided. I'm going down with the ship or that's
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: my person. And and you can't ask me not to
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: love them. You can't ask me how to protect them,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: you can't persuade me. So Nick's absolutely right, like that
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: the lost cause all the hoops.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: That the three of us have jumped through to keep
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Jacob out from legal consequences.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: I know, I know the bodies we are buried. I mean,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: but I'm not quitting on him, no, because I know
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: he's a appreciate you'll listen, Jacobs.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's stabbing a man to death right now.
• 28:39
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, but we have faith. But he will stop
• 28:42
  Speaker 9: at he leads with the killing blow, right. He doesn't
• 28:46
  Speaker 9: torture Nick, He's not in a month. He's a gentleman.
• 28:49
  Speaker 9: He's a gentleman about thank you, Yeah, thank you. He
• 28:52
  Speaker 9: severs because he cares. Wrap up my dexter.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: You're doing great, buddy, We're really proud of the progress.
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Jay sharing at the end, you know, like,
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: what do I do? This is sad, I don't want
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: to I'm frustrated at the idea of thinking I'm going
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: to have to pick up the pieces. That sentence kind
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: of sticks out to me because I had a few
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: different thoughts. I'm sure I know Nick did some aspects
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: of it, but the first one is you don't have
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: to do anything you don't want to do now Again,
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: I know that's easier said than done. But the other
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: part is if this really is somebody who's like your sister,
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: not that you have to be besties with her for
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: a while, get that space, take that space, but if
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: you feel like you're able to let her know that, hey,
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: I'm here, I'm here whenever you're ready, no matter how
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: much you're mad at me, how much I disagree, you
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: can still say all the same things. I think this
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: is a terrible idea, but I love you and I'll
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: be here for you if you ever need it.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I think it's really hard to when you're watching, and
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: I think everybody can relate to this. When you've got
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: a friend like Annie who is just self destructive. Right now,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: she is going through something she is destroying. She destroyed
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: her marriage, she had an affair, Oh that didn't work out,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: turned out that fling was a bad idea. Like she's
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: been doing this self destructive cycle and now she's sort
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: of addicted to love and like that's her new drug, right.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: And I think it's hard whether you have a friend
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: that's doing that or doing other things, like they're getting
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: into drugs, or they're starting to become risk taker and
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: they're destroying their career, they're doing all these crazy things.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: When you see somebody that you care about on this
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: self destructive pattern, it is so hard to not feel
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: like I can't stand by and witness that because like
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I would take the argument of like, look like if
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: you have a person This episode falls on election week.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: As we're recording it, we don't know who won, but
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: the election it's on. Yeah, I think it's for dog. Yeah,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: the local stuff.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I don't say anything about it.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: But it's torn a lot of families apart. And you know,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: I know that there's a lot of you know, people
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: that are like, I can't be friends with this person
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: because they're voting for this person who I know to
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: be a bad person. We had a question that came
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: through the other day about this, and it's and sometimes
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: we try to say, look, ninety nine percent of your
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: friendship is fine. Is there a way that we can
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: sequester that one percent and be human and connect with
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: this person these other ways? And I kind of wish
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: that could happen for Jay, but I understand why it
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: can't sometimes because you're looking at a person who is
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: just spiraling in every aspect of their life, and it's like, dude, I.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: Can think very much morally questionable, Like they're changing, just
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: like Jay says, they're changing ways that they thought about
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: things before. Like, hey, we known stories like this, we
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: know any knows that are basically and she's choosing to
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: not believe a victim it gelds. So, yeah, that's probably
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: you know what, therapeutically, we need to have her checked
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: out medically first.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Oh that's true.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but no, this and this brings up a deeper
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: question because this comes up all the time. We've had
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: tons of questions like this in history where people say,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: my wife, my friend, my family member, my father, uh
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: has taken a philosophical position, agrees or associates with somebody
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: who I find morally reprehensible, and because of that choice,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: I can no longer associate with my person. And I've
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: always found that to be problematic because like you're making
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: all these inferences about their character and who they really are,
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: and how much that even has to do with you.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Like you guys go into a U two concert in Europe,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: which I assumed it was you two. I think we
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: all did you know, Like it was Europe, you know,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: and Bono is European. Are went to a European concert together?
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: Okay, it took me a second, but again.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't know they would anyway.
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: I want to ask about.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: That, Yeah, Maria, anyway, so like, yeah, go into the
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: content certain thing. You can have a friendship that does that.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: You can have a friendship that reminisces over forty years
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: of history. You can have a friendship where I genuinely
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: love you and I think I'm witnessing you spiral. But
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I can also appreciate that it's hard to have a
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: friendship that doesn't talk about real things. But you might
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: be I mean, I don't know. I'd want to be
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: able to at least say, look, there are things in
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: your life that I don't think I can talk about
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: or support you on anymore, but I still care about you.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: The other thing, too, that I wanted to kind of
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: touch on is to not writer, to the best of
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: your ability, not add on to current frustrations with things
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: that you assume. Yeah, and you may be right for
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: assuming them. The Europe trip reminded me of this, okay,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: because she was saying, you know, it upsets me that
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: she did this, yeah, because she felt bad, yeah about Well,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: now we're doing a lot of assuming there, and I'm
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: not saying that the writer. I'm not saying you're wrong.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: You may be right, yeah, but if there's any doubt
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: that maybe you're not right, maybe you're not correct on that,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: let's not add it to the pile. I see, you
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: already have a lot of stuff to be upset and
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: frustrated with Annie over. Yeah, we probably don't need to
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: add this on top of it because it's a little.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: It's a little yeah, and the grand scheme of thing
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: told you so in the grand scheme of things is
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: not as important, right, you know.
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: And also, she didn't do this Europe trip one hundred
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: percent because she felt bad about lying to you, Like sure,
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: she also want to take this Europe trip. Sure, yeah,
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: there's other reasons to it as well. Worst case scenario exactly,
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: so they're still multifaceted. Worst case scenario.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Both could be true and we don't know the ratio
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: exactly of what to what, So it's probably best to
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: just kind of let that one go.
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: And whatever the motives were, if it was if it
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: was mostly guilt, it's still a nice gesture born out of,
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: you know, feeling guilty about something that you care some
• 35:01
  Speaker 6: give some credits, I mean, like you had to give
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: some credit.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Like at the very least the person is reaching out
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: and making a gestures, she has empathy and actually has
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: a little bit of insight. If that's the case.
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: Yea.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: So it's interesting the expectations of this friendship, like which
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: I get we're forged over decades and I understand that
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: there's some really big things, but like that you lied
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: to me, You lied to me about this relationship that
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: you know I disapprove of, and then you tried to
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: make up for lying to me by taking me out
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: on a concert. And at that point I got to
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: look at that and go, Okay, I'm the one misunderstanding
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: something you have changed the dynamics of our friendship.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: You get to do.
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: That, you know, like, yeh, who changes.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: So like Annie.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Annie has changed the dynamics of she's changing the rules,
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: and she gets yeah, I think so like me too. Well, okay,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: so again, I don't have the scrip as an example.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: So we've been friends for a long time. You don't
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: tell me everything about your life. You choose to tell
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: me whatever's going.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: On, and that's bad. Example, if you told me if.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: You were like changing jobs and you didn't tell me
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: about it, and then later you were like, oh, yeah,
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I don't work there anymore. I changed jubs a while ago,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: and I was like offended, Like wow, I can't believe
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: you didn't tell me that. Man, Like, you know, we
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: usually we taught career stuff all the time, and see
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: that this is something we talk about, Like why would
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: you just not tell me? I could get pissy about that,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: or I could learn that there's there must be a
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: reason that you didn't tell me. You're changing the dynamic
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: and the rule of our friendship, and I need to
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: adjust with that new reality. I don't think I can
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: get mad at you and be like, well, I thought
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: we were the kind of people that talk about this,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: that was our rule. You broke the rule. I don't know, Like,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: I'm not entitled to all of your truth. You tell
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: me what you want to tell me. I kind of
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: have a similar take on that as well, in that like,
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: if something like that happened, my immediate reaction maybe wow,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I can't believe you didn't tell me, m M.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: But before I even verbalize that, the very next thought
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: that's going to go through my head is going to
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: be another perspective of me saying, like, hey, Nick, maybe
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: this thing about you, you know, because I think that's
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the other thing too, that I really try to understand that, like,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: not everything is about me, and people's lives are going
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: to go on. People are going to be doing things
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: and I don't necessarily need to know about it. Well,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: there is there is something to calling out a change
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: in a pattern.
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: That's what I like, again, going back to my little
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: sister friend, like, if this were happening, I'd be like
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: what the fuck like and I really don't. Yeah, I'm
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: mostly That's what I was about to say. Hurt is
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: the feeling behind the anger's secondary emotion there because it's
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: like you've told me everything else we've been for in
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: since we were five, Like what and yeah, maybe then
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: the next question is why. But the initial response is
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: absolutely going to be like hurt and maybe anger from hurt.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: And she's I think any is in a form of denial.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: I think she's in this sort of addicted to love
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: sort of self destructive path.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: You think you're immute to the stuff.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my gosh. I mean it's closer to the truth
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: to say you can't get enough. I mean, at some
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: point you're going to have to face it. Yeah, you're
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: addicted to love. Yeah.
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: I was like, oh no, I don't know the lyrics
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: that I have a feeling about that.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I pulled up five minutes ago. I've been waiting for
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: that bit for five minutes.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Timing comedy time, patience. I did not get ahead of it.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, hell, back, I could have thrown the
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: pitch a few times and you could have even set
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: me up on it, and you didn't.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I knew it was comment.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, No, I thought of an example. I think I'm
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: like ninety percent sure my friend's okay me sharing this.
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: But my friend that I've known since I was ten,
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: when she got married, I made this comments, who were
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: thinking I was being helpful.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Love always good, always a good place to begin.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: I was like, hey, you know, if things don't work
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: out and you guys end up getting a divorce.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: This was on the wedding day.
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: No, I don't remember when it was.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: It was a reception.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: It may have even been like a year after they
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: were married. I don't remember, but it was closed to
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: like around when they got married. I was like, if
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: y'all do divorce, like, it's okay, you're good. Like there's
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: a lot of like guilt, I think, and shame. Right, yes, right,
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: So again, we we're in our early twenties when I
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: was saying this, so like yeah, and she had gotten
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: pregnant and like they were kind of getting married because
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: of that. It was just like a lot of like
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: other things going on. So anyway, I made that statement,
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: didn't think anything of it, thinking I'm being supportive. Well,
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: you know, years later, she's like, hey, you know you
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: said this to me and it really upset me like
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: that you said that, and as an older married person
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: now I'm like, yep, I see shit, totally, that's kind
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: of fucked up or whatever. They are divorced now, and
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: she's like and he's you know, he fell into addiction
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: actually and has a lot of stuff going on. But yeah,
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: it turned into things really spiraled into like a really
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: messed up situation by the end. And I don't know,
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: she says later on, She's like if eventually, I did
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: see that as helpful, But you have to kind of
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: sit in that with the person, like yeah, you know,
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: you mean well, and I didn't. I thought it was
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: fifty to fifty if they were gonna work. I really did,
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: like typical marriage whatever. I'm like, we'll see, but you
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: kind of sit with them, and you want to be
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: there for your friends when and come out of that.
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: Even with your friends, you have to kind of earn
• 40:24
  Speaker 6: that spot. Even with good friends, you kind of have
• 40:27
  Speaker 6: to earn that spot. And the way you earned that spot,
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: in my experience, is through acceptance of the situation. Yeah,
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: like if that person is dating someone, marrying someone, whatever
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: it is. I mean, I've got I've got friends that
• 40:41
  Speaker 6: I can point out right now that I'm like, that
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: person is dating this, that's not gonna be great. That's
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: that's gonna be that's gonna be bad. In about a
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: year or so, maybe less, maybe maybe two weeks. Who knows,
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: but you know, there's nothing to do right because being
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: able to have, you know, having the license to really
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: have that this isn't working out. Conversation with your friend
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: is like you have to earn that specific license.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to do what every relate.
• 41:10
  Speaker 6: It's not like you can do it once and then
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: you're just just the relationship guru like you have to.
• 41:15
  Speaker 6: That person has to know and it has to truly
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: understand that you are You're doing it out of love
• 41:20
  Speaker 6: and compassion for them, and that you understand it. You
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: understand the whole picture even as they see it, and
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: sometimes they're not going to see it terribly clearly.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's tough. I think that's the heart and
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: soul of this. And you know, Jay, at the end
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: of the day, I think you have to hear what
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: Annie is really telling you. Annie is making it sound
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: like she's just not persuaded, but I think what she's
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: really telling you is whether he did these things or not,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: I'm in love with him. I'm a grown woman, and
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: I'm going to make these choices. You are a stakeholder
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: in her life. You're not wrong for wanting to protect her.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: You're not wrong or overstepping for believing that you have
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: a right to step in and speak to her directly
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: and plead for her to see the truth. And many
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: of friend and family members tried to have an intervention
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: and wake somebody up. But throughout our careers, in all
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: sorts of different capacities, we have seen that sometimes there
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: a person is just not ready to change. And if
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: you go back through our catalog into Patreon, Nick, I
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: think you did a deep dive on the transud.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Trans theoretical model of change.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, and that is you know times Yeah, it's actually
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: pronounced trans theoretical.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta get some dive into that less than
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: six hours.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: It was interesting.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: But Jane, yeah, that would be a great thing. And
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: you're a trained mental health professional, but I would encourage
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: you to revisit that because if a human is not
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: yet ready to think about change, if they are still
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: pre contemplative about the problem, there is nothing you can do.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: The only thing that will move them and advance them
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: along through those stages is experiences and an internal awareness
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: and insight. And so that puts you in a terrible
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: position where unfortunately you have to watch somebody destroy their
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: life in slow motion and you have to figure out
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: what is my relationship to that, what is my proximity
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: to that? So right, sizing what you can do and
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: can't do in this situation, I think will help you
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: get some distance from it without necessarily having to nuke
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: the whole relationship, which it appears you guys have done
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: for six weeks. But one last word of caution from Jim,
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: and this will be my last thought on the matter.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Please be very careful. You seem like you are flirting
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: with some very interesting things, getting into this man's life,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: looking him up, contacting victims, going to the press, harassing him,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: or defaming him on social media, which, hey, fuck Sean.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: I'm not on team Sean, but I sure don't want
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: to see you get entangled. I don't want to see
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: you get entangled is legal troubles. I don't want him
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: identifying who you are. I don't want you getting more
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: and more involved in something that is not your life.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: You live three thousand miles away from your friend, you
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: live in a different place, you have a family of
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: your own life, and I don't think it's healthy for
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: you to get this entangled into this man's story, in
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: his criminality, trying to expose him or get him caught
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: in a new crime. This is a lot and I
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: don't see anything about that that's healthy for you.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, yep. And Robert Palmer is a national treasure.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: M m Arnold Palmer, Robert Robert Palmer. Yeah, it's a
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: different drink. Yeah, you don't mix Bob Palmer. Yeah, Bobby
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Bobby p as we called him on the street. Anyway, Jay,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: good luck with this. I hope that we gave you
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: some perspective on it, some feedback, and again, look up
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: the trans theoretical model of change. I really think you
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: should dwell on that for a while, you know, coming
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: from your professional side, I think that will help you
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: inform what you're capable of influencing as a friend and
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: where to just give people the dignity of risk and
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: the dignity of discomfort.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: And she's going to learn through pain.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: we're going to talk about how to begin to make
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: our own life decisions. You're listening to Pop Therapy.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is by Ben Malika, Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Thunder, Hugar, Falcon, Scoopy,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Slurpy Y, Motherfucker singer mcwaffle, Elena sam Cone, and Jake Schneider.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: And if you would like to sponsor the show, become
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: a therap producer by heading over to patreon dot com
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: slash therapy and signing up over there. Okay, trivia, Here
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: we go. Mental health in the Animal Kingdom one, two, three, four, five, six, seventy. Oh,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: we got a few of these.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Are cool? Cool? Cool?
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Here we go. Which animal is known to have a
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: midlife crisis where they suddenly changed their social behavior much
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: like human beings by sports cars or changing careers in
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: their forties?
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Is it chimpanzees, orcas, dolphins or macaus?
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 45:50
  Speaker 6: Wow, I want dolphins. I was heading over here thinking
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: dolphins the whole time. I want dolphins.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: I've never seen a dolphin by a sports car. Yeah,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: you've never been to Miami.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: I've seen I've seen them, you know, date younger dolphins.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes they go through that crisis, you know,
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: take the chimps orch solid I'm gonna go a cause,
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: all right, spreading the board on this one.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, the answer is chimpanzees, yes, all right?
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, these idiots picked the sea life animals.
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: I've read about dolphins, like maybe it wouldn't mid life,
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: but I've read about them going down and like getting
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: like plants and things like that and putting it on themselves,
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: like decorating themselves.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: I've also heard they use drugs.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: There's like a neurotoxin animal that they go get and
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: they just like bite the ship out of it to
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: get high, and then they pass it to each other
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: and just high.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And when they're high, they're just like dolphins are just.
• 46:48
  Speaker 6: The hippie party animals of the sea.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: All right, what creatures have been observed participating in funerals
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: where they cover deceased members with leaves and stand vigil
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: indicating complex emotional behaviors. Gosh, wow, elephants, crows, ants, gorillas,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: Go yeah, I'm going to take elephants too.
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: Grows hum. The crew of the insect World.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I would like to take issue with this. Now. This
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: came from Emma, right, I have thoughts with Jim's issue. Yeah, yeah, I.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: Now continue under protest. So I don't think that that
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: demonstrates sophisticated emotional behavior. I think it demonstrates something I've
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: read about ants that to protect the colony from quarantine.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: They they are very interested in dead ants, and so
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: like they give it a wide berth. They're covering them
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: with leaves. Things like that may have to do with
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: protecting the colony from disease, and like, I don't know
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: about standing vigil, but I could see them creating like
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: a scent boundary that you don't cross, and creating a
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: boundary to to quarantine a dead ant or many from
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: to protect the car.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Make note of this so we can bring it up
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: during her review. Yeah, that's going in the file a right,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: all right? Last one, which animals are known to engage
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: in laughter when tickled. Oh my gosh, suggesting that the
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: roots of human joy and human and humor are shared
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: with them. Wow, rats, parrots, dolphins or dogs?
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I feel like the above.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with rats.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like rats is pretty good.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: What was it, rats, dolphins, parrots, dolphins or dogs. I'll
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: take parrots.
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll take rats, That's what I said.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: So let's see here.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: So now it's going to be dogs.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: It is rats.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: Rat club for they laugh. Also, can you think of
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: anything more terrifying than a laughing.
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: Ratrats are cute?
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, used to be in a band called Laughing Rat.
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: Mini documentary the other day about rats in Cambodia.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: It's a special breed of rat.
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: They're very big, that sounds of like a small house cat,
• 49:24
  Speaker 6: but they're very smart as well.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: They weigh about two pounds and they use them because
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: they can be trained to find land mines, unexploded land mines.
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: And they're not heavy enough to set them off, and
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: they can cover uh I think they said like the
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: size of a football field in about four hours.
• 49:44
  Speaker 10: They're very efficient bomb sniffing rat that they found like
• 49:49
  Speaker 10: hundreds of unexploded land mines and like hundreds of other
• 49:54
  Speaker 10: unexploded ordinances in places there in Cambodia.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, listeners can't say you didn't learn anything from pot there,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: that's right.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, I watched a documentary.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: That's right now. You don't have to have y'all.
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: Ever heard a hyena laugh in real life?
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Oh no, that sounds terrify.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: It's the creepy fucking thing I've ever heard. Like, I
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: don't know why it's it must be like almost sound
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: like Whoopy Goldberg in the Lion King.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: It's like such a real lie. It is just it's creepy.
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: I can't explain how this visceral my reaction was like
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: hearing I.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Was just like, oh, I want to I don't spell
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: hyena right.
• 50:37
  Speaker 6: By the way, the docu saries that Whitney was talking
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: about earlier is Dancing for the Devil the seven TikTok.
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: That was one of the said three and five dancing.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: For the Devil Devil there.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: Next question, how can I make my own life decisions? Hi,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: pot Therapy team. I've been a Patreon subscribed listener for
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: a while and have submitted a few questions in the past,
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: so thank you all.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you all so much.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: For the advice you've given to me and others. For context,
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: I'm a twenty nine year old male, and my pronouns
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: are he, him and his. My question relates to a
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: pattern I've noticed throughout my life. I've always struggled with
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: trusting my own thoughts, opinions, and beliefs. I find it
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: difficult to motivate myself to make changes or direct my
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: life in a way that makes me happy. At this point,
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: I'm not even sure who I am or what I want.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: One of the earliest examples I can remember is from
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: my childhood, I hated brushing my teeth and washing my
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: face because the water was always so cold. I just
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: thought this is how it is, until one day I
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: realized I could mix the hot and cold water and
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: the temperature wasn't an issue anymore. I know that sounds silly,
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: but I remember thinking, why didn't I think of that before?
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Why didn't anyone tell me I could do that. This
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: is a small example, but I've had similar experiences throughout
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: my life. For instance, I was hesitant and anxious to
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: ask for a different haircut than the bowl cut. I
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: usually got worried about what others would think and whether
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: I'd stand out or be judged for making a change.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: A bigger example was in high school when my dad
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: made an offhand comment, you're in therapy. Maybe you could
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: go to college and major in psychology. I latched onto
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: this idea and later graduated with a psychology degree. Without
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: really considering what kind of job or career I was
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: setting myself up for.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I just knew I wanted not a good one. I
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: just knew.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: I just knew I wanted my dad's approval, and I
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: figured he couldn't disapprove of a path he had suggested.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: After I graduated, I worked at a rehab facility because
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: a friend recommended it, and later, when I burned out,
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: my dad suggested I apply for an entry level job
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: at a company he had connections with. Of course, that
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: felt like the safe choice, so I did that as well.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: Even now, when I thought about getting into hiking as
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: a hobby, my first instinct was I should ask someone
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: to show me where the good hikes are instead of
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: just googling it and finding.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Out for myself.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: Throughout my life, I felt the need to validate my
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: choices by seeking approval from others. How do I take
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: control of my life and become a more self directed person.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: I've recently started therapy again after a long break, and
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: I'm excited to work on this with a professional, But
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: of course I wanted to get some advice from you guys,
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: because of course I do. As a follow up question,
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: I've heard that difficulty with planning for the future and
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: making decisions can be related to trauma. However, I haven't
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: had any significant tum traumatic experiences that I can point
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: to and say that's what caused this. Is it possible
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: to have a trauma response without an obvious traumatic event.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: Any feedback would be helpful, especially any advice on how
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: to bring this up with my new therapist. Thank you
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: for reading my question, as rambly as it may be.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Anonymous. I think the right thing to do would just
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: be to tell the writer no mm hm and move on. Yeah. Yeah,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I assume when you get there. What should I do?
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I always ask people what I should do? What do
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: you guys think I should do?
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: That's why I started off.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: How do I stop needing air people's advice? We start
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: right now, buddy?
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Or maybe maybe we make our advice so bad?
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: Yes, and to rock bottom?
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: You know what? Challenge accepted?
• 54:11
  Speaker 11: You see, but you can't read. You're running at a
• 54:15
  Speaker 11: different speed. Your heart beats a double time. Another kiss
• 54:19
  Speaker 11: and you'll be mine? Is there anything that Robert Palmer
• 54:22
  Speaker 11: can't song?
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 54:27
  Speaker 5: Man?
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: This is interesting because I think therapy attracts people who
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: who sometimes have this where they are really indecisive and
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: they want you to just be their eight ball, right,
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: and they're coming to you all the time out of
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: coke the magic. Sorry, I saw the confusion on your face.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: It's like, wait, let me, let me go back. Guess
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: that they want you to be their compass, and so
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of people that that, like, that's how
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: they process decisions. They want to bounce it off somebody else.
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: They're collaborative thinkers, which, by the way, I don't think
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with I think that's a style of.
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: Our processing kind of.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: And I think therapy does attract people that, you know,
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: maybe in that that that way of thinking a lot good.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: So you guys don't think there's anything.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Wrong with that, is what you're saying. Yeah, there's nothing good.
• 55:08
  Speaker 6: Good, Okay, good, there's nothing wrong with nothing right, but okay,
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: got okay.
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: What about the fact that what started this was actually
• 55:16
  Speaker 5: the client or like the client hearing the writer saying, hey,
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: I figured this out on my own. The cold water
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: was bothering me. And their perspective was why didn't anyone
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: tell me this? So, yeah, you didn't rely on anyone else.
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: You just figured out, he I'll turn the hot water on.
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: But instead of the perception being look, I figured this out.
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: It was like they lost faith in their own judgment.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: I think that they were like, oh my god, I
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: didn't know this. What else am I doing in life?
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: And I don't know?
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: I need to question my own thinking, and it seems
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: like that's kind of the way backfired off.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: But like the perception that's that seems like just how
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: that was perceived. But a different way to view that
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: is like you did figure it out, like you are.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: Capable, resulted in something he learned as you went just because.
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: It didn't happen earlier. It kind of makes me think
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: it's leading to all the self esteem stuff like, oh, well,
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: I'm just an idiot because I didn't think of turning
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: on the hot water to make it not cold, So
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: now I can't trust myself, so now I need to
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: ask everyone else what I should do. Right, But actually
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: asking other people like your dad on what you should
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: major in, or just listening to what he said and
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: going with it, it sounds like it kind of led to
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: burn out and not really what feels authentic to you.
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: But yeah, it's just interesting to me that what started
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: it was the writer actually like doing something and I'm working, like,
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: I don't.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Know, here's do we know? The writer is okay, Yeah,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: so here's something.
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: I probably started really understanding this at about twenty nine
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: years old. This is probably about the time in my
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: life that I started truly understanding financial fraud that no
• 56:57
  Speaker 6: one knows what.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: They're talking about.
• 56:59
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, no one has any more idea what they're
• 57:02
  Speaker 6: talking about, writer than you do. Yeah, Like it's just
• 57:07
  Speaker 6: and you can you can understand that intellectually and then
• 57:09
  Speaker 6: you once you really understand that emotionally.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that will help with a lot of this.
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: There are no grown ups. Everybody's winging it. Yeah yeah,
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: we're all fucked.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Maybe like sitting in some of that uncomfortability, like
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: you were aware, Hey I want to start hiking, and
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: my instinct was to ask others, why didn't I just
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: google it? Well, then just google it, like then just
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: make that cognitive decision to like do that thing that
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: feels uncomfortable.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: It does to me feel like it just needs to
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: be a commitment, like for the next year, this is
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: what I'm gonna do. Like you've heard people who will
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: do that, Like they'll say like this is this is
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: going to be a yes year. Yeah, Like when people
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: ask me something, I'm just gonna say yes, I'm just
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: going to go with it, or vice versa. If they're
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: if they're trying to set boundaries, they're say like I'm
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: gonna say no, to as many things as I can.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: You know. It sounds like that's kind of where the
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: writer is, is that the writer should just be like,
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna it's going to be my goal for twenty
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: twenty five. I'm going to make as many decisions on
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: my own as I possibly can. Yeah, you know, and
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: just try to set that as a goal and journal
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: about it right about it, you know, And and anytime
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: you feel this urge like oh I need to ask
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: somebody something to just feel like no, I'm going to
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: stop myself. I'm going to figure this out myself. I'm
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: going to go do this and if I get it wrong,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I get it wrong. Yeah, And like yeah, it's but
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: like getting it wrong is on the path to getting
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: it right. Yeah, you know. So I guess just kind
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: of allow that, allow yourself the opportunity to try different things.
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: I mean, you weren't getting it right listening to others.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: It's just like, so I think this is the last
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: time you should listen. I was just going to listen
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: to me, right, listen to us, Yeah, and then we're done.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Yea more than no more now.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is a really good point. I love
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: your point there, Nick about like challenging yourself to enter
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: into a new phase of decision making, and again you
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: being a collaborator and a workshopper or an outward processor.
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: I think these are normal human traits. And to go
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: back to something you said at the end of your letter,
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: you said, Hey, I read somewhere that this could be
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: a trauma response.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Is that what this is? But I don't notice a trauma.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: There's no spoking gun.
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: Let me just wash all that away, please, you know,
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: I don't think I think you're overthinking it. I don't
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: think you need to bother with any of that. We
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: don't need a mental illness explanation for you being a
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: type of human that this, yeah, exactly, this is normal.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: It's it's within the spectrum of our species. It's just
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: it's a way of being. There's other people that are
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: cream independent, yeah, and they're just the type that never
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: asked anybody anything and just gung ho, and they just
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: they're so decisive and like great, we don't look at
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: them and go like, oh, they must have a mental illness,
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: Like no, no, no, they're just within the palette like they're yeah,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: you know. And then there's people that are highly collaborative,
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: like you, and I don't want to pathologize that. To me,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: I don't see anything wrong with that, writer, unless you
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: feel regret. And like when you mentioned your job or
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: the bachelor's thing, I'm curious about that because I wonder
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: you might knowingly look back and say, I picked this
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: because dads seemed to approve it, and so I figured
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: this comes from a trusted source. And by the way,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: like a parent suggesting a college major and a college
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: student saying okay and doing that not crazy. Like a
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: lot of young people that's how they find their major
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: because they're like the parents, Like, Hey, I raised you,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: I know you pretty good, and I've met a lot
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: more humans than you have. I've lived decades longer than you.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: I can make an educated guess about things I think
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: you do well at right, and like, probably not that
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: far off. So I don't think there was anything wrong
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: about that. If you ended up in life making choices
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: that you don't feel we're your own, and you feel
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: disempowered and regret in the sense of like, man, I
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: need to stop listening to others. I feel powerless. That's
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: whenever I like what Nick suggesting, where we're going to
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: work that muscle by experiencing the discomfort and on this
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: word comfort. We had somebody right into the show. There
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: it is, thank you. We had somebody right into the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: show because they said we all use the word uncomfortability
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: and they would like us to stop saying it discomfort
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: because the friend, Yeah, we should use the word discomfort
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: because uncomfortability is not a word.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: I would ask this question.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: This is a real question I'm going to ask right now. Yes,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: have I ever used that word?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: Apparently we all say it because we often talk to me.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: Because I was like, have I said that word?
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: I was like, I know, I do, and so like
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: we talk about it like dwelling in what is uncomfortable?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll be honest, I kind of feel like
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: this is a Gym and Whitney thing.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: It might be good, okay, good, yeah.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: But you're not home.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Your mind is not your own.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: We're just running with all these lines now. But yeah,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: so I definitely don't want you going to give you
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: up to let you down. So I don't think there's
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: a cause and effects control. Oh oh oh god. As
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: far as bringing this up with your therapist, oh go ahead,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: Well I was gonna say too, Like, I mean, I don't.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: I agree with you. I don't think anything in here
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: send I don't get this sense of like mental health
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: issues at all. To me. This just seems like it's
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: kind of like your mindset is just you know, some
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: people they're very experimental, ye Like for me, I don't
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: like people to tell me things. I like to be
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: able to kind of figure things out for myself. I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: feel like I learn it better if I'm able to
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: get in there and just kind of fumble around and
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: make mistakes and and all that. I feel like I
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: get a much better sense of how something is supposed.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: To work, Which brings us back to the last letter.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like you gotta let people just kind of figure
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: things out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also think that
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: there are people who are on the opposite end of
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: that spectrum than I am, who are just like I
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: don't want to experiment, Just tell me what it is,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: you know. And I think part of that may be
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: just a time saver. They're just really focused on having
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: the answer. The other part of it, too, could be
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: just trying something and it not working is maybe perceived
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: as a failure more so than the type of person
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: I am. As far as the experimenter. You know, I
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: don't see that as it's just oh, okay, it didn't
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: work out. It's not like it doesn't mean anything to me,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: you know, but I think to some people that means
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: a lot, like who I tried this. I tried getting
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: my degree in psychology. Now I don't like it. Oh
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: this is terrible. And I think some people, like I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: said on the other end of that, maybe just like Okay,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: I tried, it didn't work. Yeah, right.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting how the indecisive folks and the
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: decisive folks, I think, tend to find each other. It
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: seems like there's a lot of relationships like that's that's
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: my relationship. Like I ironically I am the more decisive person.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: But I think it's because I'm impatient, and I think
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: it's just because I'm like, fuck it, Pepperoni pizza.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: That's what we're buying.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: I already bought it. No one has.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Ever said that you are not sure if yourself h yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: I think it's on brand. Whereas you know my spell
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: like we we you know, do you think I should?
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: I have like five items in the checkout, let's look
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: at them all. I'm like, just fucking buy them. Just
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: buy them, like I don't give a ship. I would
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: rather spend that money and not.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Ever wear that jacket then have to talk about it.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think whenny, I don't think you've ever heard
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: this story, but this like when he plays video games,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: if there's an introduction, he's done. Yeah, if there's a loading,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: he needs to play start and he needs to be
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: playing the game within like five seconds. This game suck.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: I can't do it. I can't.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 5: It takes and you set up the t girl or
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: whatever you got what was it?
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: A blot?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: So here's another example of this. So we hosted a
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: hull scene at our house.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: My son he built everything.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: So we hosted Halloween and we had family members that
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: we're gonna come by, and so my wife is like, hey,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: we got to figure out like food stuff, you know,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: what do you want to do? And I was like, pizza,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: We're doing pizza. She's like, well, I was thinking maybe
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: barbecue pork, but then we'd have to figure out this
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: crock pot thing like doing pizza. Like this, it's done.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: And so like she has spoken, I don't.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Want to get into all these details.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: I don't want to sit here and try to figure
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: out the crock pot and likes, no, no.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: No, no, trust me, she wanted pizza, she just needed me.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Well it goes, it gets worse.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: So then we get to the day of and it's like, okay,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: I need to get this. So it is my task.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: I've I've already said I will take the charge of it.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: Well we've gotten the places like good that that actually
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: turned out to be the right decision. Great, let's let's
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: do pizza. And it's my job. I'm going to get
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: the pizzas. So I'm gonna order them and I'm gonna
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: pick them up on the way home. Everything's chaos on Halloween,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: this city's piece ship. Everything's crazy. You can't ever get food.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: So this was a big choice, like so much. So
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: I uh, I text her, I say, hey, I'm gonna
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: take care of the pizzas. Now I'm about to do that.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: She goes, okay, great, and so I'm on there and like,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: you know, dialing it all up, typing everything in and
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh man, I don't know what people want.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: So I just buy a shitload of pizza. Like I
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: just buy like four large pizzas with like every possibility
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: you know, for like basically four adults.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 6: You know Donney's rule on ordering pizza. Have you ever
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 6: heard of this? Now, you order whatever pizzas you're gonna order.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 6: So if you order four with like different toppings or whatever,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 6: you order that many cheese pizzas as well, because no
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: one's ever mad to have a cheese pizza around.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: Oh true, that is a smart move eight pizzas because
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: you just have a whole lot of cheese pizza. But
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: I consider it dillying or what a dilly dallying, like
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: dithering like when people sit around like, oh, let's discuss it.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: Let's like kick around five other options, like what kinds
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: of pizza? Fuck it, I'm just gonna get two Pepperoni's
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: and two everythings and there's plenty of pizza.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: That's we're done. This reminds me of that time that
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: Gym worked for NASA and they're like, let's work out
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: the math, and was like, let's just fucking go. There's
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: the moon. Just go the pedal on the right, the
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: fucking gas. Let's light this candle. You can see it
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: in the fucking sky. Am at it. It's the big
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: bright things. You're not gonna missit. You idiots.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: Point of the front tours the point in goes right
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: in the dirt, hit it.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 6: I do that after I think that a consensus has
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 6: been reached and then I find out that I'm wrong. Yeah,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 6: because I'll like, you know, pizza, for example, I'll like,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: you know, what what types of pizzas do we want
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 6: to get for this party? And I will like, we'll
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 6: have a conversation about it, and then I will think
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: pizza problem has been settled. Yeah, we have, we have
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 6: we have established what kind of pizza we're getting. And
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: then five minutes later somebody says, so what kind of
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 6: pizza are we getting?
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Right, right, we just talked about it.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: I ordered it.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: That's already, it's already settled. Yeah. Why why No, Like
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: I I'm not, but like, we've already had this conversation.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: Why are we continuing to have this conversation? Yeah?
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: Wait, so what pizzas? You got two pepperonis to everything?
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: So what happened?
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Oh uh?
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: It turned out everybody in the family only wanted pepperoni.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I was gonna say, Pepperoni is the wind?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I fucked up.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you only one everything only.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: I was willing to have any of the two extra
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: large everything pizza. So then we have a fridge full
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: of that ship and then the pepperonis. Uh, there was
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: barely enough to go around to cover everybody.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 6: And that's why you brought everything pizza for the three
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 6: of us to die.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right by the way. Shitloaded car pizza.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: It didn't know.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: Oh it's in the trunk. Oh good, where pizza goes?
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: As we all know.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: It's cold enough. Now we can we can store pizza.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: The true absolutely cant so anyway to the writer, like,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: I think that there's a vast spectrum, and I think
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: you are a type of person who's more collaborative and
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: you know, willing to talk. I can't handle that shit,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: and so I just shoot from the hip all the time.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: We both encounter our own errors because of that, right
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: and so like both of our dispositions lead us to
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: folly and sometimes the success. You know, So sometimes you're
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: gonna get the better answer because you took the time
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: to survey ten fucking people. And sometimes I'm gonna get
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: where I need to go faster because I didn't fucking
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: di heer and just bought something and it.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: Was good enough.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: But he will have leftover pizza.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: I do have a lot of leftover pizza, but I
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: would rather have extra pizzas that nobody eats, that have
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: to suffer a conversation discussing toppings.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: I do agree with that not going to do it.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 6: I don't agree with him very often, but I do
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 6: agree with that. Fuck it, We're just gonna I'll do
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 6: Because I do this, I do the exact same thing.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Have a pizza for something, it's great.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: I'm ordering twenty pizzas. Yeah, I'm just gonna over order.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: People are coming over. Yeah, yep, and I ordered twenty pizzas.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: There is no way I could have fucked this up.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: You can just have what you want.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 6: All of our friends doing five friends, Yes, we still
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 6: have enough pizza.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I ordered three.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: Ye I'm on your team on this ship for social occasions.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: Over order, just do it. But my wife's always like, oh, well,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: I'll have three, and may I think the kid will
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: only have one.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, we're not gonna sucking a rythm chick this.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: Everyone gets three and.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: The leftovers go to the trash.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: Everyone already said I don't give a ship. That's how
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: I am with everything. Though everybody's all don't let Jimmy
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: order because they'll just like buy the restaurant. I'm like, yeah,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: because I'm just I don't want to do this. I
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: don't want to have a conversation where we're weighing this
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: ship out anyway, right or.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 5: Dude, why does that bother you? Jim?
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: It's so annoying. It's just it's it's like this, why
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: are we doing this? Irritated?
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: So I don't want to do it? What about that
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: irritates you? Jim? Yeah? Again, I think those discussions for
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: you are just the loading screen of life.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: No, it's like, yeah, I just idi, excuse dithering. There's
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: gonna be pizza. I'm like, dithering, more offensive will be provided.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: So do this with everything. Like if we're gonna go
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: on a trip my wife, sensibly we'll come to you
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: with three or four different hotels and she'd be like, okay,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: so these are the hotels, here's the prices.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: Ship is in bed, we're done, we have a hotel,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: go there. Every time we have.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: You heard of this theory on simplifiers and optimizers.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: No, yes, it sounds like this applies.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 5: Yes, it sounds like you're if we're talking about you
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 5: and your wife, you're the simplifier, Like it's simple we
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 5: ordered the place with the bed, or like this many
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: simple gym, that's what we can.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: Simple jack, simple jack. Because I'm a bad boy.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, simple simplifies.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 5: But then optimizers are like trying to yeah, calculate exactly
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 5: how much pizza you need, exactly how much whatever we waste.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: They wanted to get it just and again bless them,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: like that's that's awesome, and they're the better person.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: They find each other.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it seems.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: Like we need each other though, Like but like she
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: after twenty years, she's learned to just ignore my ass.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: So I'll be like, no, just pick this munch okay,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: you are not available to discuss.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: This's like I will go order this.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: I will go back.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: Like reading reviews, I will not read reviews. I can't
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: do that.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: I don't care.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I don't give a shit.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: Peter and I just had this conversation in Italy because
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: he's like, oh, I was like, let's go get a
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: Crossan in the morning for breakfast. He's like all right,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 5: so he immediately pulls out his phone to find like
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: the best place to find I'm like, there's ninety nine
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 5: places to just walk into in Florence. All of them
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: are gonna be good or like pizza or whatever, Like
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 5: it's such a small chance you're gonna have a bad croissan,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: a bad pizza, whatever, bad gelato. And he's like, so
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 5: our consensus is it's a little bit of both. Sometimes
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 5: he I let him look up wherever and he says
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: where we're going. I'm like, all right, great. And then
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 5: sometimes I'm like, nope, we're just gonna go walk by
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 5: that pizza place we walked by randomly or whatever, like Yeah,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 5: it's funny how quickly it's like the phone comes out.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: I'm like, like, why is that your reaction to just
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 5: pull the phone out, look at reviews, find the place.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 6: That drives me crazy on vacation. I am very good
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 6: about dropping all of it. Okay, I've come very Like
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 6: we were in New Orleans last weekend and s J.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 6: We woke up on Monday morning and s J was like,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: I want to have big Ye's. It's great, Yeah, let's
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 6: get dressed. We're going to have Vinet's. Like we're gonna
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 6: walk in this direction.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: And we're gonna find the next Beignet.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, And we and and short, like we we
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 6: walked like a block or two and I was like,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 6: oh shit, I know boy Benie places.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: There's a ben Ye place right up here. We're going
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: to have ben.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 6: Ye's and and like, yeah, you don't have to sit
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 6: down just walking around.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: Where's the writer? I think?
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: And and also my wife and maybe Peter. They're the
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: type of person that would be like, Okay, I'm gonna
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: go to the front desk and I'm gonna ask them
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: who's got the best Vinets? And I'm gonna ask them
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: to give me their three favorites and I'm gonna look
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: those up on Yelp and I'm gonna read the reviews.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna compare.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: Press and like I'm upset that that's even happening, Like
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: I don't want to, like, yeah, this is emotionally taxing now,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: and you've sucked the joy out of this for me,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: like fucking just want to I'm gonna open my mouth
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: and you shove an in there.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: What's the Patreon level to like, I don't know, record
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: a vacation with Peter and like that would be that
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: would be a TV I think beats up like halfway through.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think I come home.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: All of the micro expressions from here you learn so fast.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: For professional booker Blair, he'd be screwed after that, you
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: would learn them all.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: I think you would break Peter.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, please give me. I don't want to make me,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 5: just get me. Or Yeah, Jim would be buried in
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 5: the one of them.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Shim, Jim him. You know what he's on. Vacation, simple Jim,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: simple Jim.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Vacation Oblivion is all you crave. Thank you, Robert Palmer.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, anyway, writer, my advice, go find somebody decisive and
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: just marry them.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: My advice is the last piece of advice that you take.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: Is this advice right here? This is it? Twenty twenty
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: five is all about experimentation. Is there?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 5: You go, but your goals have been made.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, drugs and butt stuff. Drugs and butt stuff, I
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: mean on the bumper stick. Don't start there, but finish
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: your gun on December twenty twenty five. Yeah, that's where
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: we're gonna be twelve month.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: If you're not there, you did it wrong. Yeah, you know.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 6: I just have to write down this potential name for
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 6: my autobiography.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: Drugs and stuff, or somebody make that book cover.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: I want to see it on the discord on this
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: fucking episode.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: It's going on the social drugs and Jacobs an autobiography.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, anyway, right.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 7: Began in December and Louisiana hot.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: It was the day a wait, not December anyway, Good
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: luck with this writer. But there's nothing wrong with you.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: I think there's a way to work on it if
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: this is something you want to build up a muscle in,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: but definitely nothing wrong with you. I don't I don't
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: see that at all. But anyway, take Nick's advice, end
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: up with drugs and butt stuff. We're gonna take a
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: quick break and when we come back, we are talking
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: about socially acceptable addictions. You're listening to Pop Therapy Coffee.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: Today's episode brought to you by It's Don Miliah, Richard Macy,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Sonny Boy, Thunder, Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Slipper, Motherfucker, Sander mcwoffle
• 1:16:29
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• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, is this only the second break?
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: It is? Oh, this is a long show, guys. Yeah,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: I don't dragon. Are we gonna do a third question?
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: We can get goodto whatever you guys want to. Okay, yeah,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: all right? Which marine animals shows signs of self recognition
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: and vanity by admiring themselves in mirrors, a trait associated
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: with higher cognitive functions? Octopus or octopus? Is it? Octopuses? Octopussy?
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: Octopusy is the movie? Man? I say you octavagina? I
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: believe now that's pronounced. Uh? Setters, Manta rays or seals?
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: You're going with octopus?
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going octopus.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: How do any of them have mirrors?
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 5: Well?
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: I believe somebody supplies them with the mirror. All right,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: I mean what is the manufacturing process?
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: They could?
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Probably I'm gonna go octopus as well, you said, Setter?
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: What was the last seal? Seals? I'll take seal sex husband, Yes,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: kiss by rose? Manta rays? What the animal has been
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: observed teaching their young how to use tools such as
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: sticks to extract insects, demonstrating the transmission of culture and knowledge.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: If I do it blind? Can I have two points?
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Chimps, you're wrong? Fuck?
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 5: Is it?
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: Jim? Is it simple.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: Gym to use a tool?
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Would use? I've got this Fisher Price screwdriver. I'm showing
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: my kids assembling the blackstone. My son's and there the child. Yeah, okay,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: bears damn it. Elephants, uh new Caledonian crows okay, and
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: raccoons ship and ship you chimps say, bears, well, can't be.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: I was going to say it couldn't be. Elephants could,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: but that's my answer was.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 5: I was going to say, my answer is elephants, but
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 5: then raccoons.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: I like raccoon. I like crows.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 5: I thought a bird to like like cross? What was
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: read the whole question?
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: What animal has been observed teaching their young how to
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: use tools such as sticks to extract insects?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 6: Birds take it out of insect Oh, you're.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, the crow. Yeah, I'm going crows too.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 5: I'm going to say raccoon for fun.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: I like raccoon.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 6: I wanted to be raccoon because they're gonna be the cutest.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: You're going to give.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 5: It?
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: Is? It is the crows? Okay? Which last one? Which
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: the math out loud? Which animals have been seen consoling
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: each other with hugs and gentle touches after conflicts, indicating
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: empathy and emotional intelligence can I get let me.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: Utter. No, it was a noble effort. That was elephants.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: They everything, yeah, give and they just bang it out.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go bring it out. I think it's Girafts.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna go.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 6: I can't answer, but I think it's Girafts.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: I was hoping for a moral victory.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: Do you remember that story we heard of a gentleman
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 3: who was quite inebriated going around a bar and explaining
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: how to bring world peace was the Bonobo strategy, in
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: which he would have sex with world leaders. This was
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: that scoop fest when we went to the what's that mcmullins, Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: One of the bartenders.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Remember, I don't want to the person who told the story.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: It was really funny.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: It sounds like, Wow, I wonder it was that was
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 5: the person or not Jim?
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: Sorry, No, who's that?
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 5: You'll never know.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Jill the vault. He'll never get a figure out of
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: this game.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: All right, Uh, you're probably right, Nick. I think we've
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: gone over time, so we will save our third question.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: We'll put it in the next one because this is
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: the first episode.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: Of the month. Oh that's right, yeah, which means we've
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: got some.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: Business to attend to business busness. So the first episode
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: of every month, we thank all of our therappods and
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: theradactyls by name, everybody that's current, and so we want
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: to thank University Jeff Robert Paulson, Polygon, Colin, Richard Bruins,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: Linda Brandmeyer, Scoop Sureat, Joseph Pangrazio, Corey Owens, Christine Phillips,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: Gavin Bristow, Carrie Terhrk, Stacey Westerland, Kiwi Fruit Scoop, Take
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: An Evy Podcast, James K. Craig, Little Don Door, Jim Hunter,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 3: Scoop Atron, Todd Canfield, Felicia Butler, David Sorensen, Shayla Bullock,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: Lauren Izzo, Stacy Coleman, Adam Pettanouzo, Matt's Lenigren Scoop Itter, Ascending,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: Ian Soto, Jessica Seiphers Lee Popsicle That, Josh Guy, Doctor Scoop,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: Little Mom and Ninja Scoop, James Dawson, Sarah Olow, Grumpy
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: Lake Mead Park Ranger, Sam Buck, Karen McCulloch, What Weekend,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: Some Nobody, Lila b Gay, Do r Kelly Gagner, Nippy,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: Brian Emra Matthew Johnson, Alec Lancaster, J D. Congan, a
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: literal Pickle, Matthias vander Brandt, Andreas Savedra, Molina Maxaginger, Scoop,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: Ken Tinsley, Julius Kappell, Chemist, Stacy Protect and Scoop Smells Funny,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: Matthew Cubic, Chad, Chad The Safety Lad, Walter Fluke, Philip Geiten,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 3: Tim Mystery Almost Doctor Nurse, Joey Duffy, The Slowly Getting
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: Their Therapist Bear, Joel McMillan, Christopher de Gersy, Kirka Grim,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: Tricia Ortiz, Chris Conway, Melissa Lgeisler, Kirsten Johnson, d J. Sewert,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 3: Mississippi Hippie Scott, a Feefe, Eli Frey A Lawson, Deaf
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: Feels Right, Heather w Patty Glad, Kyle Todd, Ve, Anthony Camarada,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: David Williams, Kate Police, Keronipillar, Buddy Dobbins, Eric Dyer, Trontastic Glitch, Scoop,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: Alita Blaze, Bud Nuts, Stephen land and shy ruperel Adam Baalaz,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: Kenneth Wong, John Finlayson, Mysterious, Annalid kJ Mister Poth, Carmen
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: Perry Kate, Pizzle, Dizzle, Robert Cole, Temporary Reality, Jeff Darnell, Jamiebi,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: Jacob Hunt, hurt yep Sinsidium, Persephone, Hazard, Ray j Shark, Recreated,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: Silka Daniels, Nathan Mookie, Jenny Rose, Jacob Billingsley, J W.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: Reynolds.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: What does scoop mean? A crusty croissant? Alex Jardine, Juan Monterey,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: Dylan Collopee WOLFEO five, Autrey Johnson, Ben Sherman, Chris Courtney Dale,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: The King, Cedar, Hayden, Nora Monico, Adam Goff, Jesse Miller,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: Livy Terribletay Akrilla, Curve, Linus, Hakkasan, Hakanna, whatever, I nailed it,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: Anybody Chicken, Farmer, Yangen Keeley and Kay Matthews.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 5: Third actyls Ice, Blue Scoop, Brian Lehman, Scoop, Brady Fred
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 5: Bishard Junior, Andrea Anderson Scoop, Lindsay Frozen Cusser, Laurie Elsroth,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 5: Robert Ward, Cy, Shaunagan ooh I said that one that
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 5: feels right Scoopy, Scoopy just just okie, scoop, Dank Brooks Flyle,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 5: Adam Ribchick, Lovely Spark, mister v Jimen Manu, Adam Warren
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 5: and Manuel Cavassos.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: Nice, very good.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: And as we wrap up the show, we want to
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: remind you can sign up at patreon dot com slash
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: therapy and get the extended show ad free a day earlier,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: as well as enjoy our live chat discord community and
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: our weekly deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups and rants.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: And we've got some new people joining the Therap party.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: Who's new, Nick, Yeah, we got a new therapod, Yagan
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: Kylie Welcome Yegan, thank you for joining us. Glad to
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: have you.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: And we'd like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous and
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: flagrantly pro therapy dieheards who love you all so much
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: they give till it hurts, the Therap partners Dirty Bee
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: and Picket, and we want to especially think our bosses,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati members of the fan club
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: Therap producers. Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior, Mint,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: Smitty Scoop, Ben Don, Judy Schneider, Kayla Lansberry, Malia Leon
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: Cassab Mason Miller, Richard Fucking Macy, Carolyn Albert Kevin Chamberlain,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: Tess Miller, Sammy Scoop, Ben's Stanley, Slap in Your Face,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer t Mike Helm, Paris, Darren Cunningham,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: Lib Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar Falcon, Scoop, Mattlesa, Tangmin heyo
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: Oscar Swan Ros Sunny Boy, Slurpekai Motherfucker, Sandrew mcwoffle, Dan Martin, Hannah, Marie,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: Andrew Langmead, Emma Kaine, Elina Cody, the Dolorean Guy and
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: Sam Cone.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: And if you would like to hear this episode uncut
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: and unedited and wow, wouldn't you and enjoy our spontaneous
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: side projects, go to patreon dot com slash therapy and
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: thank you for supporting mental health. That's all the time
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: we got for this week's session.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: I want to think our Landlord's Met Mattingley's ice Cream
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: Social podcast and thinks of those of you contributed to
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: our show today. We really appreciate it. But remember pot
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: Therapy isn't something to keep all to yourself. Show the
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: episode with the world tack us on the socials when
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: you do. It's at pot Therapy Guys on Instagram threads
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: and Twitter at slash pod therapy on Facebook, and don't
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: forget about all the extra goodies at Patreon dot com.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: Slash there. Do you want to submit a question with
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: the show, You can ask anonymously at pod therapy dot net,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: email us at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: or by clicking the link in the episode description to
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: be taken to our anonymous Google form. I'm an next
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: tanjimin I'm Jim. Thanks and we'll see if your appointment.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 6: Your hot, sweats, your teeth, grind another kiss and you'll
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 6: be mine.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: I did. Don't think good goodbye,