Latest / Sutra Squad / Ep. 31 Sutra 2.37 On the Third Yama - Asteya or Non-Stealing

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Ep. 31 Sutra 2.37 On the Third Yama - Asteya or Non-Stealing · Sutra Squad

• Seth Barron: Hi Sutra Squad family. Before we start today's episode, we wanted to extend a special invitation for you to join us at Sacred India 2027, our pilgrimage along the sacred Ganges River in India. We'll be starting in Dev Prayag, where the last tributaries connect and the Ganga begins. We'll go down to the holy city of Rishikesh. We'll go on to Praya Graj, where the Yamuna meets the Ganges and this mystical Sarasvati River is said to join, and ending the trip in the holiest of holy cities. Varanasi, and every day we'll offer yogic practice. I'm gonna be offering power. I'll be offering satsang on the Yoga Sutra. And I'll be offering restorative yin and nature practice. Plus, if you've ever wanted to see the magic of the Sutra Squad podcast, we'll be recording a few special live episodes along the way. So all the information is live at sutrasquad.com. Click on the link for pilgrimage. You can find everything you need to know, and we really hope you'll be able to join us. On with the show. Real wealth is not defined by having piles of money or possessions. I'm gonna add or titles or compliments to that. It says without peace, love, and happiness, even the wealthy won't be fulfilled. Our wealth is not defined by material possessions, but more importantly by our relationship to them. Hello and welcome to the Sutra Squad podcast brought to you by One Deep Breath. My name is Seth Barron, and I am here with the Superstar Sutra Squad of Sarah Page Hall. Hello, hello. And Sally Moore. Welcome. Sally, one word that describes how you feel right now. I just it just popped into my mind. I don't know how I feel. And then I thought, no, seriously, how do you feel? I feel good. Good. Sarah Page? One word. I strangely enough, I feel blessed. A lot of good. Mmm. A lot of good. ⁓ None of it's giving me money, but it's good. Just perfect. That's perfect for what we'll talk about. Or what we talk about later. I feel what do I feel? In this moment right now, what I feel I feel loved. Mm. Yay, because you are. You are. I want to reach out and hug and kiss you. ⁓ So we are in this really, really beautiful, auspicious phase of our study together where we're exploring like these just the most essential teachings of yoga. We we spent time in the first chapter of the Yoga Sutra, the Samadhi Pada, and we've explored the sadhana pada, the chapter on practice, and we've gotten to this phase where we're examining the the series of verses in like what what You could call it the spine of yoga in the Ashtanga Yoga system, the eight limbs of yoga. Yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, the harana dehyana samadhi, ⁓ which is yama, the moral, the great vows of moral obligations of the yogis, the niyamas, the personal practices of the yogi, asana, the seat, the physical practice of yoga, the ⁓ pranayama, the the the intentional direction of life force energy or breath control. Pratyahara, which is the s sometimes it's translated as sensory withdrawal. my teacher my teacher Rima is ha w gave a beautiful Dharma talk about Pratyahara where she described it as the the bridge from the external to the internal. And I love that, right? The turning in as a sp as a practice, right? That we we it's like when you so it's closing your eyes f when you meditate. It's It's or when you listen closely or setting your gaze within like those are all practices of pratyahara. Then that internal, like sometimes I talk about when I when I teach yoga philosophy and I teach the eight limbs, I also talk about it as like actions and outcomes. That the first of the of the these are actions, the yama niyama, right? How to behave in the world and how to behave to to and for ourselves. And asana, how to behave in the seat that we occupy, the pranayama, the action. of withdrawal or or of of of moving prana. And then the pratyahara is it's still an action. It's a choice to set your gaze with intention. It's a choice. But then what arises is daharana, the the placement of attention with intention. And then dahyana to sustain that attention or you might call it meditation. And then samadhi, the the full transcendent bliss of pure absorption and connection. And we're gonna spend time on every single one of those. And we're still and in the yamas, there are five yamas and there are five niyamas. And we're taking we're really going into, and we hope you're along for the ride to really like go deeper. Because so many of us, like if you're first of all, if you're not if you're if this is all new, then like we're so glad you're here. And don't think or don't have any expectation that you need to get it all, because like I don't know how many years later we're still learning. This is our sixth sort of like cycle of study of this text. And it's like keeps unfolding in new ways and new understanding. And I feel like this year especially is just like as we've been doing this podcast, it's just like blown my mind of new depth and and insight. ⁓ these are lifelong practices of study. So You know, we're so glad you're here and we're so glad you're along for this ride. So we're spending time. We're really gonna go into the depth. ⁓ that is hard to find when you're doing just like a regular, even if you are a teacher, if you've bit you know, if you're an instructor in the West, most T T programs, most tra training programs like have a session or, you know, four hours, I think is the the yoga alliance minimum for yoga philosophy in a two hundred hour training program. Which I you know, I have thoughts about. ⁓ I have thoughts about that. but you know, like you might so you might like read a book and you might talk about them, but like we're really hoping that we give some some real depth to some some space to slow down and just sort of like simmer in this stuff and struggle with it and be challenged by it and let it provoke you and let it poke you a little bit. Because it's hard, right? This is the Yamas are described as a great vow. Mahavratam, unconditioned by time, place, class, caste, culture, or context, right? That it's not a buffet. You don't get to pick and choose. That like if you wanna c if you want to be up to the to the big yoga, it is a journey through these practices. And and it requires a real depth of understanding and that's their subtlety and that and a constant reexamining of of them. So we've so ⁓ we've talked about Ahimsa. The first Yama, the the seed, you could say, of our moral construct, which is to not cause harm or to not to to be nonviolent. And I love this this framing from I think it's from the the textbook of yoga psychology that there's himsa, there's harm in in words, in actions, and in thought. We harm others in action in the physical body, and the right, we harm others in words. In the emotional body, and we harm others in thought in the spiritual body, which is arguably the most him sick, the most harmful. And that all harm we cause to others originates with thought in our own mind. And so there's no way of causing harm with to others without causing harm to self. And then last week we talked about satya, the principle of truth or truthfulness, and that there's this really fascinating paradox of truth. There's the truth that all things change. All things are in constant motion in the material realm. Whether that's the way that it's described in yoga philosophy as the mutation, the shift of the gunas, the modes of material energy of Tamas, Rajas, and Sattva. Or you could look at that by the way that like electrons are constantly spinning inside atoms. Like you know, like electrons don't like aren't ever fixed in one place. Electrons are spinning in an orbit around a nucleus of protons and neutrons. So, like what we perceive as like ⁓ a piece of matter that is maybe fixed or static at its atomic level is in constant motion. Like that's a fascinating paradox right there. In stillness, there is motion in the material realm. In the spiritual realm, truth is that which is true beyond time or context. Like it is, it is true in a way that is unconditioned by. Time, context, or or like ⁓ you could say Well, it's like it is that that which never changes, that which does not change. And that's the nature of the divine. And that we have to hold those truths like right, the constant the changing nature of the material realm is true. And the the truth beyond space time, ⁓ and and context is also true. This week we're gonna talk about the next Yama, which is Asteya, ⁓ which is often translated as non stealing. And as we do every week, we will ⁓ I will chant the verse so that we just have a chance to again like really listen to the source of the Sanskrit. And whether or not you understand the Sanskrit, actually it is said in many lineages that Sanskrit is a vibrational language. You do not need to have a rational or literal understanding of it to receive benefit from the vibrational energy of the words. So maybe just take a nice tall seat. Think about your asana, sit up. And if you'd like you could bring your hands together in front of your heart. You could close your eyes and you could join me for one vibration of om. Take a deep breath in. Let it go. And how? Chanting Yoga Sutra two thirty seven. Paste pratista no pastam. Asteabratista. ⁓ Astepratista no pasam. This verse begins as we've seen the previous two. A principle of Yama and this word pratistayam. Ahimsa Pratistayam, Satya Pratistayam, and now Asteya Pratistayam. And it means to be firmly established. Stha is the the root to stand, to stand firmly. It shows up in ⁓ the Sanskrit for extended mountain pose Urva upward sastasana right upward facing upward standing pose it shows up in l in a very famous mantra loka samasta sukino bahavantu samasta to which we that we where we all stand together. So here pratistayam established firmly established grounded in and asteya ⁓ is again a negation and steya is Is theft, robbery, larceny. ⁓ I like this. Anything clandestine or private. I thought that's quite interesting. So non-stealing, and to be so to be firmly established in non-stealing. Sarva all. And again, here it reads sarva ratno. So it's like a again, like a a little bit of Sanskrit grammar, the santi of the words coming together. So ratna is like a jewel or a gem. Or something valuable or a treasure or or a a a pre a prized gift, anything valuable it could be. And then Upastanam. So there's that sta again. and it and it means like like comes comes near, like comes near to you. And so one translation from Inside Patanjali's words by Reverend Jagannath Karrera. is on being firmly grounded in non stealing, all that is truly valuable comes near. being firmly established or being firmly grounded in non-stealing, all that is truly valuable comes near. What translations have called to your heart as you've examined this verse? ⁓ whoever wants to go first, Sarah or Sarah Paige or Sally? I got it. Okay. ⁓ actually it's from The Secret Power of Yoga by Nishila Joy Devi. And it's not a quote that she says, but it's something that she re wrote like ⁓ references to believe in something and not to live it is dishonest. Mahatma Gandhi. So if you believe in something and you don't live it, you're stealing from yourself, you're stealing from your community, you're stealing from whatever. But I then she goes into abiding in generosity and honesty, Athaia. Material and spiritual prosperity is bestowed. And almost all of the references I was looking at, all of the translations had that, you know, with If you're if you're not stealing, you'll be wealthy or whatever. I have not lived that truth. I'm wondering who I'm stealing from because that's not happened. But I gave my started looking at abiding, and it's another one of those words. And if anybody has listened on this podcast, I love to look up words that we hear all the time and just assume that we know. And abiding, I love this, is an adjective that describes something that lasts for a long time. Enduring without change. It most commonly refers to persistent feelings, memories, or beliefs. So abiding, enduring, without change, generosity and honesty. And I just thought that's a beautiful way to see it. A perfect way to see it actually, to abide in generosity. Yeah. So lovely. How about you, Sally? Well, I was just gonna share a little on the ⁓ from inside Patanjali's words by Reverend Jagannath Karrera. I really what struck me different than the years that I've looked at these ⁓ the y this yama, Reverend Jagannath Karrera goes to explain material wealth is not the point of this sutra. It is about coming to a deep realization of what real wealth is. It is truth. Connection, communion with spirit, essence, source, and through that communion, knowing unshakable joy and peace. And I really have thought about I am a privileged person that does not worry about having a roof over my head and I have availability of some fabulous farm fresh food. near my house a couple times a week. So I I don't want to bypass there is a place where material wealth, a roof over your head, is really important. So it's not that that's not important, but it is interesting to me when I really think about stories I've heard about I can't remember if it was 60 minutes or someone, I heard this story I think maybe the guy lived in India in a makeshift shack it looked like to me. And he had the wealth that this sutra is talking about. And he he just shared this pride and li in his life. So I really liked that part, but I also didn't want to bypass like the places where I feel very lucky. And then also in the secret power of yoga, same thing I focused on this. Asteya encompass ⁓ encompasses not only generosity with money and giving of things, but also generosity with time and giving from our hearts. When you set time for an appointment, be there on time. Esteya asks you not to steal another person's time or make people wait. Asteya expands your heart expands your heart. Use your heart, you're giving for maximum benefit. Not do not wait for someone to ask. Be alert and never miss an opportunity to give. So those were two things. I also like that the translation she I can't remember if Sarah Page talked about her translation or just in her commentary, but I'll say it again just in case. Her translation is abiding. Maybe you did because you talked about abiding in generosity and honesty. material and spiritual prosperity is bestowed. ⁓ you did probably say that. But it just I like these different words because I think maybe the first time I read through this and I saw, okay, don't steal and I'm thinking, I really haven't stolen anything for a really long time, maybe when I was a teenager. You know, or maybe the occasional eating something out of the bin before I paid for it, you know, when you buy bulk. Like the but in general I don't find that to be but the stealing of my own myself, my peace, of not paying enough attention to people, not like taking the time to say hello or you know, it just is so subtle. And then it can I just share a little I went well I'm just gonna share a little something. So last weekend I was so lucky one of My best friend's daughter, Libby, the beautiful Libby, I was invited to her master's graduation. And she is like a daughter to me. And you know, it it's a few hour drive away and blah, blah, blah, blah. But after the graduation, she invited some friends over, and I really got to witness the wealth of deep friendship. And I found myself getting really quiet, not as I was retreating. But as I was observing the feeling of love in the room, I could feel the love first. And then I watched these two women who had just graduated from this master's program, they were sharing the highlights of the year and the lowlights of the year, but they shared so generously from their spirit that I was like, that's not stealing. She shared her spirit. Her and her friend shared the spirit. And then the next morning, her mother and father. Who I've known for so long, and they've been through this life journey with me. We went to coffee with Libby, and and her, I think her mother said, Do we all have some wisdom we want to share with Libby as she embarks on this next chapter of sort of unknown after like knowing where she was going to college and knowing where she was going to get her masters? And I watched her dad speak so deeply. He's like this tough guy who played football with my kid's dad, and so sweet and kind. And it was exactly the sutra. It was about the wealth of showing up fully, of recognizing your value, of, you know, a no is a yes and a yes is a no and and keep moving with life. And really I just sat here and it reminded me what is most important. And it was just like ⁓ Jagannath Karara had said, the fullness came through truth, connection, community. And through that, sitting and observing that, there was just peace and love and tears. They all coexist. And I felt so blessed to to be the witness. That's so beautiful. Yeah. So there's like there's this like literal translation of the verse. Like like the like Sri Swami Satchidananda translates it very straightforward, as I as he often does, to ⁓ to one established in not stealing all wealth. comes. And I was thinking about how like not stealing is a prescription in just pretty much every major faith tradition, right? It's in the Ten Commandments, thou shalt not steal. And it's sort of framed in that regard as like, don't take what is not yours. So there's like like there's like a negative and then like a positive almost like a way of thinking about this verse of like, if it's not yours, don't take it. Like and that's and there's a very literal, like it's a very literal way to understand it. And And by the way, like that's also there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's certainly like we have we have a strong, you know, in the West, we have a very strong cultural value around personal property and around the integrity of that personal property. And that, like, don't take what's not yours. But it's the the the wealth is where things I think require us to understand both a little bit of cultural context of of yoga and yoga philosophy and and also like I mean maybe it's the wealth of your bank account, but we're not really talking about that wealth. We're not saying like don't steal and you'll get like don't steal the million dollars and you'll get the million dollars. There's the bypass. I think it's really yeah I think it's really important just to say like that's a that's a pretty reductive and sort of surface level interpretation because the the words do justify that translation, right? Ratna Like Sarvaratna Past you know pastanam, like like all that ratma, all that w jewels, gems, preciousness is attracted, right? Comes to you. But I think, you know, again, like it's important to to just also be cognizant that like yes, like and there is a very like like gems and jewels are are are common in many traditions and like are ador and adorn ceremonial garments in many, many, many, many lineages. There's stories in the of the ancient Hebrew, you know, temple in Jerusalem of the priests wearing jewel adorned ⁓ vestments. And ⁓ The, you know, Narayana is said to possess, like the to wear the kostuba, the the kostuba gem. And and I loved this, this ⁓ passage also from Dragonath Carrera. We're we're leaning in with Reverend Carrera today. ⁓ but he has this paragraph, two paragraphs that I'm gonna read that I think are just really worth a moment to understand like what what we mean by gems or wealth in this context. Gems, they ⁓ gems are more than valuable objects, they're symbols. Of highly valued spiritual realities that radiate special energies. They're symbols of highly valued spiritual realities that radiate special energies. Gems born in the womb of the earth symbolize the manifestation of the unfathomable collective unconscious. Incorporating a gem into jewelry gives a stone additional value by virtue of human creativity and handiwork. Both the vast collective unconscious as well as the essence and effort of human beings come together. In a partnership that brings beauty and benefit. I mean, that is yoga, right? That is a coming together of like the spiritual into the material, and in this moment, like like setting a gem into ⁓ metal and the heat, the tapas required to shape the metal in which it can receive the gem is actually a beautiful metaphor for the for for our practices, right? And then he says this in Hinduism, it is taught that gems have gone through all the possible phases of the refinement of matter. Gems symbolize the Atma self. And one famous, and then he goes on, one famous jewel about the the c about the kostuba gem. But that I love this idea that like it it's that like and actually here, I'll use, I'll use a I'll use an example. So for those of you, if you're watching, you can say I just took out a necklace. For those of you listening, I wear a necklace. I'm I ⁓ I almost never take it off. I wear it from everywhere. ⁓ and it's ⁓ it's a chai. And ⁓ I mean, I was born in a Jewish home and it's ⁓ it's it's very stylistic. It's like the two letters sort of superimposed in in different metals, and there's a and there's a diamond set in like the arm of the Chai. And it was my wedding ring. And I have been divorced for a long time, but the divorce was traumatic and the circumstances of the divorce and my separation from my ex husband were traumatic or traumatic and difficult and a deeply trying experience. ⁓ And I I had put the I had put the ring in a i away. Like l the night I left the n the night I left him, it I I never put it back on. It didn't fit. It like my body like rejected it. It was so weird. I mean it was a custom piece of jewelry. It was so weird. And and I I had this like, I'll know what I when I when like when it's right, when I know what to do with it, I'll know what to do with it. I didn't want to throw it off a bridge. Thank God I didn't I'd like you know, I didn't need the money. ⁓ and I love the idea though of like Literally transforming it by heat. So there's that that sense in this in this context. And I think it's a beautiful analogy for our practice of Asteya. That like, you know, not stealing requires us to get really, really curious about what is ours and what is not ours. Right. That discernment, we've talked about this. That the definition of suffering, of or of of the misunderstanding that causes the root of suffering, the first of the klishas is avidya. Which is defined as misunderstanding the self and the not self, the temporary and the permanent. So there's this sense that like what's mine and mine and what's not mine is a really big question. And so and then like and that there's this like coming together though of the effort of practice to like receive the jewel of wisdom. And in this case, it was like again, I'm holding up the little piece of jewelry, is like that it requires. Required a trial by fire. in order to extract the gem from its original context, remold the metal and place the gem in a new way. And that is such a that is so much of what these practices are calling to us. And the jewel, the gems, the wealth is a spiritual wealth. It's a wealth of discernment. It's a wealth of of knowing that we are part of something bigger. It's a wealth of of of of a practice that we turn to when we have moments of deep sympathetic joy that we can recognize, like the the our incredible fortune, and in moments of extreme challenge that we know that there is a way to to to there is a path that we can walk. It might not be easy, it might be murky and difficult, but that but that like there's a jewel of wisdom that if that will illuminate the path or it will refract the light in such a way that the path becomes clear. Maybe only one step at a time sometimes, maybe sometimes way further out. But if we are willing to Hold that gem of wisdom, it will show us the way. I have I would love to add something in here. ⁓ because I don't know what it is you said, but it just like lit something up in me. So in the textbook of yoga philosophy from Ramamurti S. Mishra Md, he says something that I really love. And it's some it goes to the wedding ring. Okay, goes to that, and it goes to so many other things. But it says the more one cares, The more one loses. The one the more one detaches, the more one comes to oneself. And now it detaches a parikraha, we'll be getting to that later. But it's, you know, attachment. And attachment is all over the sutras, it's in the Bhagavad Gita, it's in all of the Shastra. It's everywhere. In fact, I think it's one of the most recurring themes, non-attachment and everything. The means by which we achieve yoga. Is practice and detachment. And so it's everywhere. And so, ⁓ but I got to thinking about it, and it's like, what do I care so much about? Because full transparency, I'm the one who mentioned not having money twice, like in a five minute situation in this podcast. And I'm like, do I really care about that? Because my word was blessed. And I am blessed. I feel very lucky. I feel very blessed. And it doesn't have a thing in the world. I'm able to make rent. I have some of the best friends I could ever have. But I have to tell you that if I hadn't gone through, you know, the top is the fire of the past two to three years, I wouldn't have gotten that. But if I and going back to Astella, if I hadn't gone through those times, all of those times, the good and the bad, but you know, sometimes we tend to dwell on what it is we went through. Then I would be stealing from other people the benefit of my wisdom, the benefit of what it is that I went through, the benefit of my looking at somebody and saying, and I've learned to not put it in, you know, bringing it back to me. I was tonight I had the great good fortune to go to ⁓ just have a girls time with two dear friends, and one of them is going through some stuff. And I remember thinking, I'm going I know what this feels like, but I'm not gonna say, ⁓ you know what? I went through exactly the same thing because I didn't. And that would be stealing the benefit or the nobility of her suffering. She needs to feel what that is. And that is she needs to have that. So I don't want to steal that. Wait, that that's a that's a see that, say that again right there. That's I don't want to steal the benefit, what she needs to get from the nobility of her suffering. Because the suffering will not last. It won't not because I know this woman, she's not gonna let it last. She's gonna feel it, she's gonna go through it, and eventually she's gonna get onto the other side of it, and I'll be there holding her, waiting on the other side. And but if I jump in and say, Babe, I know exactly what you're going through, then I'm I'm not letting her have that moment. You know, th that's such a beautiful you know, I think there's a there's a beautiful moment to take here too, which we when we talk about, you know, as teachers So all three of us teach asana classes, and many of you listening might as well. And like how many times I think this happens, especially when you're newer to teaching, you see a new student, and wow, they are struggling. Like they are like, they are just like freaking out. They don't know what to do, they don't know what to pose. They're like, they're really fumbling and bumbling their way along. And like you want so badly to help them. And it's so well intended. And you want to just be like, you know, you want to like fix it for them. And you want to make it so that they get it. And and and like that's such a beautiful intention to be of service. And I think what you learn as you continue to teach is actually how to just hold space to let them struggle. And be there to catch them. Be there to catch them. Be there to catch them if just enough. Just enough. Because following Right. Like like it's like you right and the and the reason I'm not saying from a like and that is not from like a like see how hard it is. Like look at you struggling. Like that's not that's not the energy of that at all. The energy of that is that what I do not that like that if I come and just explain it all to you or fix it or try to fix it for you, first of all, I can't. Second of all It's that's the actual definition of that misunderstanding, the self and the not self. That's theirs, it's not mine. And what you are stealing from them is the opportunity for their own discovery. What you are stealing from them is the struggle and that like the value of struggle because only because like the the the realization that we come to from direct experience, a Gnostic G N O S T I C, a Gnostic understanding of an asana. Is one million times that is a jewel of wisdom that no matter how much I try to explain, air quotes, like all the physical dynamics of downward facing dog. Downward facing dog is a really hard post. Like to fully, to fully integrate it, fully express it. Like, I mean, that alone is a lifetime of perfection. And different methods, different teachers, like. You know, have so many different perspectives on it, like, but but it is a really, really, really challenging asana. And if you just go over to somebody and be like, just do this and just do this and just do this and just do this, like what you risk as an instructor is like, you know, you maybe you're doing that because you want to be liked. Maybe you're doing that because like you want to help. And and it's beautiful to want to help. And if you just do it, it's like if you just do it for them. Almost. What you're stealing is their moment or their opportunity for discovery. And what you're stealing from yourself is the opportunity to hold space. Yes. Because it I think stealing goes both ways. This is what I love about this study. It's never the thing. Like we go, ⁓ okay, non stealing, don't take things. I'm a good person. I'm not gonna take things. That's all this is. It is so reciprocal. I don't take what's not mine. It's so reciprocal and it goes so much deeper. I love what Seth Denanza says. He goes, We're thieves every day. We're breathing air that isn't ours. We steal every single day. And so it's it's a humbling moment. No, right? Like how crazy is that? Like I mean, yes, you do, and no, you don't. Like it's not yours. You're you're you know, it's like I don't own even this, like this body is just like a rental car. But it's so reciprocal. But at what I love is how, you know, and this is what you alluded to before, Seth. You didn't allude to it. You said it. With this is what our sixth time going through it. You know, the first time through, we're kind of like, okay, that's what this is. I'm not gonna steal. Okay, let's not steal. I'm not gonna steal and I'll get money. And it's so not like that. It's so not like that. And that stealing. Okay, here's one. I will admit I steal. And you know what I steal sometimes? I steal time. And I'll tell you how I do it. You're laughing because you know exactly what I'm gonna say. Sometimes I go long. Sometimes the class goes long. I guess you do that emoji like one eye peeks out. Sometimes class goes long. I know it's a bad habit. It's a bad habit. I know Sally is very Sally is our conscience. Sally is our conscience. Sally is Jiminy Sally is Jiminy Cricket here. I am Pinocchio fumbling my way. I'm the blue fairy. That's homophobic during Pride Month. You can't call yourself a fairy. I want to be a princess. right. But like I've I've it has happened, I it in it has happened that and it is a bad habit that I'll go like two or three minutes long. And like there's a way of looking at that, it's like, whatever, it's two to three minutes, right? And there's a way of like, no, like there's an integrity around like you ask people to show up for class for an hour, and like you've got them from you know, start to finish. And then it like but like the the deal, the agreement is sixty minutes, not sixty one, sixty-three. Like the deal is sixty minutes. The class is posted at seven PM for sixty minutes. And at eight o'clock, everybody should be like getting up and complete. Like all integrity. Done. Thank you. And not at eight ⁓ three. Which may or may not happen sometimes. And every t er like it's a it's a it's a bad habit. But and I and I will full well recognize like I'm stealing something. And every like and every time I look at it, I'm like, ⁓ do it again. And it's not every time. it's often enough that I'm talking about it. So it's often enough that I need to work on it. but I think like so there's that, right? Like that like that's a real legitimate way of being like you can think like, ⁓ I don't steal, but like You you go along, you're stealing some you're stealing somebody's time. Like they made a commitment to you, you had an agreement for sixty minutes, not sixty-three. There's a lot of talk about integrity in this this particular translation as well. And all of the translations, did you see that, Sally? There's a ton of integrity, integrity, integrity. So it goes to integrity. Well, and I want to share a few things I ⁓ took out of once again Deborah Adele's The Yamas and the Niyamas. ⁓ it's such a sweet book. It's just yeah. Such a sweet book. But ⁓ it says Astea calls us to live with integrity and res I can't pronounce this word hard resprotosity, help me. Re reciprocity? Reciprocity. Thank you very much. My tongue doesn't want to do that. But it says non stealing from others, because we compare ourselves to others, we either find ourselves lacking, which makes us feel cheated, or we find ourselves superior, which leaves us feeling arrogant. And then she has a lot more commentary, but then she said, non stealing from the earth. We are visitors to this land, to our bodies, and to our mind. This guideline asks us to view everything in our possession as something precious that is unloan to us. And for the time that it is unloan to us, we're asked to care for it, right? Non stealing from the future. Remembering our ancestors and the mystery that brought us into being is a way to reframe the sacredness of our own lives and the sacredness of lives that will come after us. It is to find ourselves as current caretakers of this lineage of past and future lives, and then non stealing from ourselves. All demands and expectations that we place on ourselves steal from our own enthusiasm. All the ways we live in the past or future steals from ourselves. We need time to rest, to reflect, and to contemplate. And then the last ⁓ sentence I took out of this section of her book was where stealing unleashes pain and suffering on ourselves and others, building our competency opens up a world of joy and possibility. And I was just thinking of all of that while you guys were sharing. So powerful. You know, that's another beautiful, I think there's another beautiful w dynamic of this stealing as well. This is a little bit more subtle, which is like when we hold back, right? When we when we try to mold ourselves into a shape because it's what we think is what we're supposed to do or what we think it's what other people expect of us. You know, what you're stealing is people's opportunity to see you, to truly see you. This th this showed up in my like my first teacher training. when, you know, so I have a lot of shtick. Like I and I've been very effective in a part of my career using that shtick as very ch as which also manifests its charm. And and I can be very charming when it is useful. I I have that as like in my toolkit. My mother loves you and she doesn't even know you. That's true. It's true. She doesn't remember yesterday, but she wants to know how Seth is. Right. So, like, I and like I've been for a long time in my career, I was paid to get up on stage and like do the show. And I was in the studio and ⁓ we were getting it was like a coaching teaching practice, and I could feel tension in the room. And I did, I went to my go to shtick. I like. Cracked a joke. And my teacher said, Seth, stop trying to get these people to like you. There it is. Teach. She clocked me performing. And she clocked me like going to a default of shtick, which it wasn't authentic. I mean, there wasn't authenticity to it, sure. And it's not in auth like the again, it's subtle, but she wanted to make the point from because my leak growing edge. was like actually allowing myself to be seen. And when we when we default to the shtick or to whatever, we we all have our own shtick. Everybody's got something. We all have a dodge. We all have way of like we all have a a verbal tick sometimes that we say when it gets a little uncomfortable, like ⁓ wait, just kidding like a two real right. what we're robbing, what we're stealing Is is the the opportunity of another to see us as we are. To the g s or to or to what we're stealing from the world is the is our special light, our unique manifestation. Well, you see that all the time, right, with young teachers when they try to they take and you can and you can see it a mile away, right? You can just see it a mile away when they're using words that they like from other teachers. But it's not their words. And it's interesting because we do a certain lineage that has a pretty scripted, you know, sequence, right? And it is hard to make that. No, it's not. It's not hard. It's it is challenging. It is a way, it takes time to make that yours and your voice. And it takes practice. It takes practice to find your voice and your authentic voice. But once you find that authentic voice, what a blessing to see somebody for who they are. There's just that moment of, you know, and we've taught this practice how many millions of times between the two of us? I mean, hundreds of thousands of times between the two of the three of us, all three of us have taught this practice so often. And we will never teach it the same way. But I cannot imagine not seeing Sally for you know, and I can't imagine not seeing Sally for Sally. You know, I can't imagine not seeing Seth for Seth. What a rob what a robbery. What a steal if we are not what a theft if we are not able to see each other for who we are. And listen, that doesn't mean that we're gonna love each other. I mean we three do, but you don't have to like everybody. No. That's that's not that that's actually a hundred percent. Or the person or Kai, how about the person who like I've I've like developed more sensitive antenna to this when you meet people who you feel are like like so desperate to be liked. And it's like I have this like pang actually of real like compassion that like like I I see how desperately like like like like don't worry if I like you or not. Like I I will or I won't, doesn't matter. Like I just want what I really want is to connect with you like authentically. I actually said this to somebody on a date. It was a little tricky. I I tried to be very kind. But what I said was like, I wanna get I'm I'm I wanna like I I wanna know who you are. I'm trying my best to like drop out of whatever I think you want me to be and just be as authentically me as I can. And now again, this is like taking a minute to get to a place where I'm comfortable even saying this to somebody like on a date. But like, you don't have to worry about like don't who cares what I think about it. I was that girl. I was that girl. I had I was an actor for years and I was doing falsettos. It was the first time that we did it. It was off Broadway for the first time and I had the opportunity to perform in it. It's one of my favorite shows ever. But it was a very challenging show for me because I was with very, very high level people. It was a very charged performance. And I was playing Dr. Charlotte, a great role. And I wanted them to like me and to see me for all the talented sparkle that I thought I was and I was coming on strong and hot. Now this is a long time ago. And I remember this guy looked at me and he goes, You just try so hard. I've never forgotten that. It was it was exactly what I needed to hear. I was in it was exactly what I needed to hear. And I in my mind I was like, you're absolutely right. Like I knew it, it it hurt. But in that moment, Isn't it amazing how differently you'd receive that now, right? Yeah. I mean, first of all, I wouldn't be doing that. I'd just be doing the role and, you know, figuring out. But I mean, back then I did want to be liked and I wanted to be look at me and all of that kind of stuff. And in theater, that is it's hard to be authentic. But if he had not said that to me, I remember it like it was yesterday. I know. That's a real that's a jewel. That was a jewel. And if ⁓ I would i he would have robbed me of finding starting me on the path of finding my authenticity. So thank you. Yeah, and and you know, I think it's important to say too, like, you know, we talked about this a little bit last week in the principle of satya that like truthfulness doesn't come at the expense of kindness and compassion. And there's also a way, like and Sarah Page, I think you even referenced this when someone's like, I'm living my truth. Like and there's this like it's a weird meme in our culture right now in this moment where people feel like they have to express that in some way, as if like they're doing because often it's because they're doing something that they know is disrespectful, rude, or inconsiderate, or like and so they're they're trying to like justify it in some way. that's that's actually how I think that phrase is often used. Just one hot take, but like It's the bless your heart. If you're really living your truth, you don't have to tell anybody about it. You're just doing it. You don't have to tell anybody that's what you're up to. It's just what you're up to. And people are going to get it or they're not going to get it. And the people who will get it are the ones who you're going to want to stick around with. People who don't get it are the ones you're going to say, great, have a good life. Maybe we'll see each other again sometime. And that's it. Like flat. Like I said, it's the spiritual bless your heart coming from the south, you know, bless your heart. Nothing good comes after bless your heart, and nothing good comes after. I just gotta speak my truth. I was thinking back to teachers. I mean, I'm I know I copied things teachers I respected said when I was learning. Like it's part of the learning. If I hear a great cue, shameless. But but but ⁓ I'm also saying so it's like this practice of that and then the vulnerability of being really honest, you know, sometimes like If I tried to be one of you when I was teaching, it would I need to be me, but you practice by learning it. But ⁓ Carrera once again said something amazing from his book Inside the Yoga Sutras, and it's reminding me of this whole conversation. But he said, real wealth is not defined by having piles of money or possessions. I'm gonna add or titles or compliments to that. It says without peace. Love and happiness, even the wealthy, won't be fulfilled. Our wealth is not defined by material possessions, but more importantly by our relationship to them. So I think whether it's a compliment or a stack of money, like it is fine to want to save money, invest money, have a car, or be popular. It's all fine. But what is your relationship to it as far as what you're making it mean about your true self. And it's funny, I mean, talk about between my hour or two talking to you guys every week and my lunch times with a one, a two, and a six year old, here comes my teachers again. We were sitting around the table, you know, with our everyday the noodles, the what we eat. And my grandson's, you know, off school for summer now. So we got a six year old commanding the table instead of a two year old right now. And it was so funny because Cooper, the two year old, said, I need something. I can't remember what. Probably ice cream. And Bodhi said, Do you need it, Cooper, or do you want it? And it started this whole thing from me thinking. I I talked about it in souspicious to be a Sally's grandchild. It's so auspicious. It's so amazing for me to be there. Have so much brilliant time with them because I talked about it in class. Like usually I say, What do you need? Why are you here? You know, why'd you come to your map? What do need? But this time I said, What do you want? And why do you want what you want? Because it's relationship to what you want. Like sometimes we need rest or we need a break or we need a glass of water. You know, there might be space for that. But I thought I really got me thinking about what do I want and what do I expect from From what I want. And what do I really need? And what do I already have that I'm forgetting to notice? And so it's like it's just amazing from this little I just always think if people could see me with these grandkids, it's hilarious. I usually have 400 bows in my hair because the two year old thinks she's a hairstylist right now. I know. You know, I got a one-year-old that just only wants to talk about balls. Ball, ball, and then I got Bodie going. I don't think you need that. I think you want and out of it always in line with the sutra. that's amazing. That that's amaz again, I stand by my statement. It's an incredibly auspicious birth to have come into this world as Daddy's grandchild. I want to pick I can only hope I can only hope I'm so lucky on my next turn on the marble. And in the meantime, I'm just glad I'm your friend. I wanted to add something though, Sally. I wanted to add something to what Sally just said 'cause ⁓ w we're referencing teachers and to yoga teachers and all of that. Also, no disrespect, but how many hours you have, how many E hours after the E R Y Ts do you have? ⁓ we tend to wear that like is it really important? Is it really important? I mean, yeah, training is important. Yeah, it's like one of those funny things, right? Like is it training is important? Training is important and like super important. But it right. It's like the title is like an interesting data point. It is not a definitive data point. I've taken class with amazing teachers who've been in the studio for a year. I've taken mediocre classes for teachers who've been doing it for a lot longer. And also, that's just for me. Right? Like th that there's there's I think we always it's always useful just to say like, you know. First of all, if you if you get into a yoga studio and your intention is to be of service and to teach and give class, like please continue, right? And be and continue it as a craft and continue it as as an ongoing place for you to grow, develop and be of deeper service to the world. We need it. The world needs it. And thank you for your service, truly. And it is like it is it's this ongoing constant laboratory of learning for students and for us as teachers. Like I I I don't think like I hope I never think of myself as a teacher who's like, Got it. Like the bat my teachers would never say that. They would call themselves students first. Always. Well, and it's incredible because this is a lifetime practice, right? The other ⁓ a couple of weeks ago, I don't know if I talked about it before, but Blanche, who owns a studio where I taught and also teaches ⁓ the Beth ⁓ Baptiste methodology, we together had our ten year anniversary of teaching. And we taught a 10-year celebration class for fun. It was really fun. And I remember when I was brand new, we had a teacher at the studio who somehow it slipped out, like she'd been teaching eight years. And then I thought, what am I thinking? Of course she can do this, deliver this way better than I can't. And I have to bel at 10 years, this is a lifetime practice. I am barely a toddler. ⁓ 100%. And and it's also can we get Courageous enough, regardless. I mean, same thing. I have we have ⁓ teachers with less training and more training, and it's like, do you believe what you say? Do you study what you say? Do you believe what you say? Do you practice what you say? Because are you regurgitating what you hear? Where yeah, there's a point, there's a beginning where it is just you need some practice, right? Yeah, you just practice the words the words. Or you have some practice, but then you have a Personal practice that you feel courageous enough to weave into what you're teaching, not to make it about you, to make it a deeper offering. And that's so well said. ⁓ Because that's stealing, actually. Actually, like, right? That's another dynamic of stealing. We've seen teach like I've you've taken class where you can tell a teacher is like working something out and they're just like putting it out onto students. And it's like, no, you're stealing something from the students. You're stealing like their experience, as opposed to like, is that depth of your sharing in your experience in service of the students? And like it's again, it's very subtle. But it's this constant exploration. And like, if and if you've never towed or stepped or trounced over the line, then you're not doing then like I don't know what you're up to, because I certainly have done any number of times. Realize after that class, like, oof, was that class for me? I might not be that might not be the class I'm the most proud of. And like, can I have the courage to just acknowledge it? Like that class was for me. I gotta tell you, when I was I was going through my very difficult breakup, like just devastating, traumatic, horrifying breakup. I was a very, I'll use the word, I'm gonna be honest here. I was a very aggressive teacher. It's like the practice is hard because life is hard. Hold that chair. Hold it. Right. And that was in service to nobody's greatness, including my own. So I mean to so it's like, let's just be real. It happens. Like it happens. We're all in this constant dynamic of exchange. And you know, to be firmly established, a stay upistayam to be firmly. Firmly established is only like only then can we fully receive. And we gotta, so what we have to receive now. Yeah. We gotta land the blame. We gotta, we gotta do it. ⁓ and because again, we could, I mean, this is these ideas are lifelong practices. And if you stick with us long enough, we'll talk about them again. cut two. so let's start with ⁓ A point of inquiry around this practice of Asteia. ⁓ Sarah Page, what's a point of inquiry? And we offer this just, you know, for as you're listening, you could journal on it, you could just think about it, you could just let it provoke you. You could talk to a friend about it. I don't know. Wow, this one's tough because it brings up a lot of emotion. And it sounds, ⁓ it sounds almost Pablum-like. But I really, really hope Don't steal your honest expression from us. I won't. I won't. What I really want people to do is to sit down, get very clear, look at yourself very clearly. Where are you stealing from yourself? Because if you're stealing from yourself, you're stealing from us. You are stealing from the people that love you the most. So where are you, where are you? God, and that's so hard. It's bringing up a lot of emotion. Where are you not being yourself? Because you are afraid to be yourself. And by not being, and that sounds so easy, but When are you saying yes when you mean no? When are you doing things that you don't want to do because you feel like that's what'll make you liked or that's what'll get you something? You're stealing so much ⁓ God. That sounds like something I need to get really clear about. I'm usually very clear, but it's bringing up a lot of energy and a lot of emotion. So it might be something I need to also ⁓ get clear about. But don't not let us see you, please. Yeah. We need you for for Being generous with that's our pitch. Sally, what's some inquiry that you might propose for our dear listeners? I'm s super similar. Just what does non-stealing mean to you? Are there areas in your life where you're stealing from others, from the earth, from your future, from yourself? And what practices could you bring in to move away from steeping ⁓ stealing and deepening your practice of generosity? Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with ⁓ Yeah, where are you? Where are you centering yourself in a way that steals like space from others? ⁓ say that again, Seth. Yeah. Where are you centering yourself in a way that steals space from others? Mm-hmm. Right. Like the moment, like you said, Sarah Page, of hearing a friend talking about going through something difficult and and like there's a there's a a lot of us have an impulse to say, like, ⁓ I know I've done that, I've been through this thing, or I know how to handle that, or and it's so well intended. And it's very rarely received as as helpful, useful, or thoughtful, right? Usually it's received as like that's about you, that's not about me. And I'm having a moment about me. And I just want you to like you to attune to me. And when you turn when you when you just attune with like something, a statement of just like like I've been through hard times, but I know all of us have a different experience. And I just want to acknowledge that you're going through a hard time. And I want to thank you for sharing about it so thoughtfully. And that's not thank you for sharing, 'cause that can also be a little Pablo me, right? if it's mount if it can of course be heartfelt. I don't mean to take away from that either. ⁓ but really like where where could you ⁓ Try to be sensitive to like like who is this space for? Who is this moment for? Who is this experience for? And am I contributing to that or am I like taking focus back to me? Which takes us to a teaching tip. So we all offer Al Center classes, and we know a lot of you do too. And the whether or not you teach formally or informally, as Sally said it once, the best teacher is the one on your mat. So you can hopefully apply these tips if you give class, maybe they inspire you to give class in a way that's that that reflects this this wiz this, you know, this ratna, hopefully this jewel of the wisdom that maybe we discovered together. Or or it just inspires you to just bring some philosophy into your class in a way that's accessible and authentic. So ⁓ we'll do the same order. Sarah Page, what's a teaching tip? ⁓ where is it that you are stealing? from your students the opportunity to fall down and make a mistake. Where are you in a savior complex with them? Where are you trying to make it all better for them? And why? I think, you know, always ask why. But you know, if you try something different and they're struggling, consider that they're not gonna get it the first time. It's okay. Try something different. Yeah, it's great. Let them struggle. Let them struggle not in the mean way, an artistic way, like but like Give them the gift, give them the space to struggle to struggle. Yeah. Yeah. And that's great. Yeah. Sally, how about you? Teaching tip? So I've just realized my teaching tips are more like as the teacher what to invite the students into is the way I'm thinking when I do these. I'm just inviting but maybe the teacher and the students practice living in your greatness. Practice showing up in full expression, whatever that is in the moment. Like really discover yourself in your greatness. Meet yourself in your greatness. Be fearlessly Yourself. I love that as a teacher. Gotta tell you. Stand in your power. Stand in your power. A hundred. ⁓ I'll give like a tactical and a philosophical. Tactical and the one I'm gonna give for myself, which is start on time, end on time. That's one thing we can all do as yoga teachers to like not steal from the experience of students. Start on time, end on time. And then it requires some tapas for me. But it's but it's a good practice for me. ⁓ so zip up your time. ⁓ and then I would say, similar to to what you said, Sarah Paige, like don't be afraid to challenge students and don't be afraid to let them struggle. In a way that like again, in a way that's loving and in a way that is supportive. And of course in a way that doesn't that never compromises safety. And like, let them struggle. It's okay. You don't have to save anybody. They're gonna make it. They're gonna figure it out. ⁓ there's an amazing visiting instructor here, and she'll intentionally ⁓ accelerate and decelerate the pace of the opening Saryana Maskar series. And sometimes she'll give this cue, she'll say, Vietabadrasana one, get there. Chatarangadantasana, get there. And she's like encouraging you to like step on it. Like get the like get like now to Mukash Vanasana, catch your breath, stay. Inhale. Like she like I it's not like it's it's scripted, but like she's giving you like she's like pushing a little bit. ⁓ have you ever I don't know if you've ever heard her say that, but like it's it's like all it's a it's a it's a vibe. it's a vibe. And she has this I think she's originally s from Switzerland. So it's like a slightly Germanic accent and Anyway, it's but it's like, she is not afraid to let you struggle. And I always think about like I was saying this we were talking about this in the locker room. Like, why is her class so hard? And I think one of the reasons is that she is unafraid to like let students struggle. She teaches the flow she's gonna teach. And whether or not you keep up with it, and now again, I don't there's a way of doing that from a place of ego as well. And I never feel that from this teacher I'm speaking about. I feel it's always an incredible service. But it's also very challenging and she's unapologetic about being challenging. And she is like, Yeah, get there. You know what? I've never met this person, but I've been thinking about this too. My guess is she believes you're all capable. That's ⁓ a hundred percent people know that. Like when there's correct. That's she's a global master instructor. I'm telling I I I'm I'll say her name. I her name is Yogeshwari. If you ever she's a she's a global master instructor of the Jivamokdi Yoga method. If you ever dear podcast listeners. ⁓ she's currently in residence at Suc Yoga in New York City. ⁓ and her she teaches all over the world. If you ever have an opportunity to practice asana with your Geshwari, I Y-O-G-E-S-W-A-R-I, she is an unbelievable force of nature and incredibly kind and incredibly experienced and incredibly masterful and incredibly deeply, deeply studied. And it is it will be worth your time. It will be I it will be a ratna of your yoga. It will truly be a gem. And she's just unapologetic. And I think that's right, Sally. That's a great, great, great point. Because she believes like you can get there. So get there. Like get out of your own way. Get out of your head. And just do the pose. Get there. Do the next pose. Get there. Do the next pose. Get there. And it sometimes it can feel a little, but it's it it does come from that place of like, I know that like that's a great that's a great place to end this. That it it's it's grounded in her belief that like you can get there. And like, you know, this practice of not stealing is sort of like I sometimes say, ⁓ at the gym where I teach, I have to announce you know, you have to give some housekeeping announcements. And one of them is I say, like, I give assists and I'm intentional about the language that I use. First and foremost, if you do not wish to receive touch, you can just say no, thank you. You are a hundred percent welcome, encouraged, celebrated, and or just give me a weird look, shake your head. I'll figure it out and we'll be totally fine. It's absolutely fine. And I am not interested in fixing you because you are not broken. I am not interested in correcting you because you are not wrong. I am here to hold a space for you to discover some possibility. Touch is one modality to achieve that, and it is your body. And if you don't want to be touched, you can just say no. And it's like done. That's it. ⁓ we're done. That's it. No. ⁓ what a what a what a deeply fulfilling conversation. So provocative. I've so much to think about in terms of like where what what am I stealing from myself, from you, from my from the world. And in a way that is also loving and compassionate and provocative. So I just want to say with all my heart, thank you to Sally. Thank you, Sarah Page. Thank you, Seth. Thank you. Love you both. Love you so much so much, and I'm so grateful to be on this journey together of service. ⁓ if you have found any benefit from the awards, ⁓ please consider liking, subscribing, ⁓ where ever wherever you find our content ⁓ in this podcast. If you found it useful, maybe share it with a friend who you think might also find it useful. Leave us a comment, you can reach out. and with that, we'll see you very soon in the next episode of the Sutra Squad. Bye bye.