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ep32 Eamon Mcgrath was always punk · Almost Famous Enough

• 0:23
  "Punk is not really a style of music.
• 0:26
  It was more like a state of mind." Mike Watt, co-founder of the Minutemen.
• 0:33
  All punk is attitude.
• 0:35
  That's what makes it, the attitude." Joey Ramone of the Ramones.
• 0:41
  Punk music is the sound of rebellion." Bono.
• 0:45
  Of U2.
• 0:47
  The most punk rock thing you can do is to facilitate joy as much as possible." Eamon McGrath.
• 0:56
  Eamon McGrath has always been punk.
• 0:58
  If punk is something much more than a style of music, at its core, if every expression of a person reveals a devotion to the ethos of punk, not just a musical or stylistic expression defined as pop punk or hardcore punk, whether there are stage divers into a mosh pit or studded jackets and chains and pockets.
• 1:21
  If remaining DIY, in the face of every modern innovation is punk.
• 1:26
  If feeling sick of the status quo, the unchallenged notion or standard and doing something about it in your own life is punk, then Eamon is punk.
• 1:40
  I'm not an expert on punk, by the way.
• 1:42
  Not one bit.
• 1:43
  The rock music historians would make sure to expose that, but I'm convinced that punk was always about rebellion.
• 1:51
  Bono went on to say that punk found its way into their music by allowing hope to permeate their laments.
• 1:57
  It was counterculture audacious, but it always stuck with me.
• 2:03
  Then along comes Eamon McGrath talking about facilitating joy out of the rebellion.
• 2:09
  Eamon is a Canadian Troubadour, a 20 year veteran of the DIY scene with one of the most excessive touring and recording histories you're gonna ever discover.
• 2:19
  He has chased the dream through dozens of albums, label deals in every size and style of venue, solo or major tour support, and even written two books about it, which you should really check out.
• 2:31
  By the way, he has stood under the brightest lights and slept in the darkest corners, literally.
• 2:37
  And he hasn't missed a beat as he continues on, and he stands to be one of the best chats about every topic in the biz that you'll ever find.
• 2:47
  My name is Glen Erickson.
• 2:49
  This is Almost Famous Enough.
• 2:51
  Thanks for spending your time with us.
• 2:53
  This is Eamon McGrath.
• 3:05
  Glen Erickson: well this is fun for me.
• 3:06
  Glen Erickson: Eamon.
• 3:06
  Glen Erickson: By the way, because, I, I think we met
• 3:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think I know what you're
• 3:10
  Glen Erickson: a long time ago.
• 3:12
  Glen Erickson: A long time ago.
• 3:13
  Glen Erickson: A long, long time ago.
• 3:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: played in, for, for our listeners though, that you played in a band called The Wheat Pool
• 3:19
  Glen Erickson: I did, yeah,
• 3:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: for, for context.
• 3:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: So I, I'm from Edmonton originally.
• 3:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, I've been playing music, uh, since I was 11.
• 3:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: playing music professionally since I was about 18.
• 3:32
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 3:33
  Eamon Mcgrath: and I'm, I just turned 37, so, going on 22, like going on 20 years.
• 3:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: in this, uh, I, I, I used these, I used the triple, uh, in the biz, 20 years in, in the biz.
• 3:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah, so so I've seen a lot of changes as you have, uh, and we've, we've rolled with a lot of hunches and we've adapted to a lot of, but I think you're gonna talk about a show that we played together at the Black Dog one time, I'm assuming,
• 4:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean, well this is the thing is like, this is the thing about this industry that's funny, but especially when I overlap with Edmonton adjacent people, which is the unfortunate amount of times I can say, I know how many times we've been in a room together and never sat down and had a real conversation, which always feels at this stage of my life, regretful, right?
• 4:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well, well it's funny'cause like, I think that actually speaks to like a wider sort of state of the.
• 4:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: State of the Union or so for, for Canadian music in, in general, you know,'cause because there was a long time when I was, when I was, when I first started touring, where I, I, and I still think I'm correct in this because I don't think that much has changed in this regard, but I, when I first started touring, and I would, you know, as you have, you know, doing the, the Vancouver to Halifax through the, through Thunder Bay Drive, like the back and forth and the back and forth, um, which now is funny because as someone who's actually toured internationally more than I toured Canada now, probably, you know, we didn't even realize it when we were starting out, but we were, we were like, like on a regular basis driving, you
• 5:11
  Glen Erickson: The hardest route ever
• 5:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: in the world, like a,
• 5:14
  Glen Erickson: in the world.
• 5:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: a quadrant of the globe, you know?
• 5:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: So, so I think that it's, it's like I used to say, I used to joke when I was.
• 5:22
  Eamon Mcgrath: Younger, like during this time we're talking about when we, when we played together back then, um, that ev every single person that was involved in putting together, uh, like a tour of Canada from, you know, Victoria to St.
• 5:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: John's, every single person involved in that, in getting those wheels turning literally and figuratively could, could have fit in, in my parrot's backyard, in North Glenora in West Mount.
• 5:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and I still think that, like, I think that, that if I were to actually do that and, and like approach that kind of an undertaking, geographical undertaking, which I took for granted when I was starting out.
• 6:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: 'cause it was just all I knew.
• 6:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: But now if I was like, if I was gonna actually undergo that again, yeah, I mean it'd be like 35 people.
• 6:07
  Eamon Mcgrath: It'd be a great party.
• 6:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: But so like all e everybody's kind of connect, connected in this like spiderweb and so we all know each other in this like tertiary.
• 6:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: Secondary way.
• 6:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and so there's a lot of trust that kind of gets, built up with each other because everybody's sort of vouching for the, the, the person that is quite, quite, quite literally east or west of them, you know?
• 6:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and, uh, and I still think that's kind of the case.
• 6:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, any, any artist that's sort of starting out that actually wants to understand what the true sort of rigors of touring are, would, would, would, would be, would come in contact with the same people that I know, the same people that, you know, regardless if it's like a country band, a metal band, uh, you know, a, a soul, whatever, like can Canadian music is so, continues to be so great despite the challenges that we've all had to overcome in the last couple years.
• 7:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: Especially because no matter what style of music we make, we come at it from this, from this same perspective of just understanding.
• 7:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: distance and time, you know, and it's funny'cause'cause yeah, we played together.
• 7:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: So like, we played together I think in like 2005 or 2006 at this black dog all day Rager.
• 7:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I was in this band called The Wild Dogs At the time we were pretty notorious and I've, I've since really cleaned up my act.
• 7:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: But in those days I was pretty outta my mind.
• 7:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, uh, um, I remember, I remember the thing that really inspired me the most was, was, um, bands like SNFU in No Means No because of, because of the fact that they were great punk bands, but also the fact that they were so connected to music that sounded nothing like them, like Junior Gone Wild or Show Business Giants or, or Carolyn, mark.
• 7:55
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I remember there was also like, you know, there was this really great community in Western Canada, like Core Blunt even comes from
• 8:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 8:03
  Glen Erickson: A hundred percent.
• 8:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, that really always spoke to me I think like, and so that sort of like.
• 8:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: That sort of like bridging the gap between like the ferocious renegade punk rock of Iggy Pop and then like country music, uh, like a Ian, Ian Tyson or something.
• 8:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: To me, it just really made, made sense as a Canadian and it just fit so logically into the cannon that I loved.
• 8:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I was like, well of course this music sounds like this
• 8:27
  Glen Erickson: Well, I love that you say that'cause I, well, one thing is I've, I've always felt this is very Canadian too, like, so I love that you've immediately framed it like that because.
• 8:38
  Glen Erickson: There's been, let's, let's, let's use a little political language without making it political, but there's this, the history of this country, at least in, I've lived long enough to feel like I've had a good sense of, it has felt for the most part until recent times very widely centrist.
• 8:54
  Glen Erickson: Not just political views, but just
• 8:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 8:58
  Glen Erickson: in social
• 8:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: Cul culturally, culturally,
• 9:01
  Glen Erickson: it's like very accepting, very overlapping.
• 9:04
  Glen Erickson: Like even the musical genre, Americana, I was like, I think Canadiana existed before Americana.
• 9:10
  Glen Erickson: Whereas there's like folk and country and bluegrass and blues and all and rock and roll, like, all felt like they were part of this thing that if you didn't want to label one or two of them together, you could put it under this thing and it made sense.
• 9:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: I completely agree.
• 9:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 9:27
  Glen Erickson: so I, and, and more relative to you, which was down the list of things I was gonna ask you and talk to you about was, You've carried this label of, uh, punk for a long time, which I think came outta your early influences, came out of a lot of your early records.
• 9:43
  Glen Erickson: You've obviously in a almost 20 year career spun all over the place with some like genre testing and, and, and just being free, obviously in your songwriting style and expression.
• 9:55
  Glen Erickson: But, but punk to me is an interesting microcosm of the conversation that you just started too, which is like, what is punk?
• 10:03
  Glen Erickson: Is it just a style or is it like, I always remember people being super offended when Bono was claiming that they were punk, um, because he connected so well to the REamones and the spirit of a thing, not the expression of the thing.
• 10:19
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 10:19
  Glen Erickson: But it's kind of true,
• 10:22
  Eamon Mcgrath: you, you two opened for, for dis they opened for, for discharge once.
• 10:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, it's, it's a weird world out there.
• 10:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: I I, that's a good question because like in the, it's weird.
• 10:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's, see that's a, it's a, it's a code word that I've always used.
• 10:37
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like to me, um, gram Parsons is a punk rocker, you know, the ultimate punk rocker.
• 10:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, I really do believe that in the trajectory of American music, I think that if Gram Parsons had lived long enough to.
• 10:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: To, uh, hear black flag, he would've thought it was amazing.
• 10:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, I really believe that because I think that like there's a very thin line between what, Otis Redding is doing with his voice and what Henry Rowlands is doing with his voice.
• 11:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like they, they are, they're, they're, they're channeling, you know, sadness and anger and pain or whatever, into something beautiful and joyous.
• 11:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's the essence of, like, to me, that's the essence of the blues and soul music and, and country and like all of this music channels, something dark into something bright, you know?
• 11:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: But the problem with, with, with the word, with the, with the word punk is that it's, it's being so co-opted by, by a, a faction of the music industry.
• 11:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: That is, in my opinion, one of the most destructive forces.
• 11:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: Which is, which is the, the what?
• 11:45
  Eamon Mcgrath: The modern conception of.
• 11:46
  Eamon Mcgrath: Punk is like all that van war tour stuff.
• 11:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: And it's just, it's just corporate budgets with, with a studded vest, you know?
• 11:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: Which to me is like the, the most un DIY thing.
• 12:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: 'cause you're just, you're so like not being yourself and you're not doing it yourself.
• 12:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so I, I, I kind of like, I've been trying to distance myself from, from using that word to describe what I do, but it's also served me really, really well because I think that for, for people that, that understand what I'm saying when I use it, like someone like you, you know, we can communicate so much in a crowded room silently with just a nod.
• 12:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: When I use that word to describe Gram Parsons and someone else knows exactly what I mean when I do that, but.
• 12:35
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 12:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: For the wider audience and for marketing purposes.
• 12:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's just, it's totally
• 12:42
  Glen Erickson: marketing is, is the word, is like, marketing has essentially determined what the music industry is.
• 12:49
  Glen Erickson: So that's, that's kind of a baseline assumption.
• 12:52
  Glen Erickson: I think we can get, get out on that.
• 12:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: exactly.
• 12:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: And like, especially nowadays when, you know, you have to classify your record as something so that it fits into a specific category so that the algorithm knows how to chew and regurgitate it.
• 13:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, like it used to be, it used to be a way of, you know, like a record store to sort of direct people and program people now, like it is quite actually a way to program people.
• 13:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so I struggle with it because.
• 13:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think that there's really no term that better describes what I do, but I also think that there's probably no worse term that describes what I do.
• 13:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 13:38
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, I've, I've been wrestling with this tension and I, and it's been fun because I've been wrestling it through.
• 13:45
  Glen Erickson: Conversations in a podcast.
• 13:47
  Glen Erickson: So that's been really fun for me and it's fitting the goal of why I even started.
• 13:50
  Glen Erickson: But, so in this instance and in this context, I've been wrestling through, the irony.
• 13:56
  Glen Erickson: Like I said, that to me marketing is defining what the music business is.
• 14:02
  Glen Erickson: and but when you made a reference to the record stores, is that the history of music and how it spread was what on surface might appear like marketing, but it was really through the purity of this thing we, I would call curation, which is somebody who loves a thing.
• 14:19
  Glen Erickson: It starts with somebody who loves something so much, they share it to the people that they believe will also love it and that.
• 14:27
  Glen Erickson: Grows into a more functional, formal concept of curation.
• 14:32
  Glen Erickson: Like somebody is being anointed with good taste or a, a large knowledge to do this work.
• 14:39
  Glen Erickson: And they did it through radio because radio would attract people in and they would do it through record stores.
• 14:44
  Glen Erickson: But because capitalism and the dollar is the bottom line, right?
• 14:50
  Glen Erickson: We have a history where those bottom line efforts would take over the purity of curation, I felt.
• 14:56
  Glen Erickson: And the beauty of one of the beauty of the spirits of what we're calling punk is anti-establishment.
• 15:04
  Glen Erickson: And I think a lot of people would consider that's at the core of whether or not they would agree with how they align
• 15:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah, you're, you're dead.
• 15:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: You're dead.
• 15:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: Right?
• 15:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, even like cur curation, iss a good word.
• 15:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, a more pejorative term could be, you know, like a gatekeeper or something like where that's, that term is used really negatively to
• 15:24
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 15:25
  Glen Erickson: People don't like that one as much anymore.
• 15:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: So, but I'm gonna say if you think about, if you think about it, like in, in these terms, this is the way that I've kind of tried to, to, to, uh, to figure it all out is like, even if you go back as far as like, I'm not even kidding when I say this, and I don't think this is a stretch, but like, as far back as, as Mozart, like if you watch the movie Amadeus, you know, you have the contrast of these two sort of parallel societies.
• 15:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: You have like the, uh, the aristocratic mon, you know, monarchy like the, the academic upper court where everybody knows how to read and read music and, you know, the Emperor France, Joseph.
• 16:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: Commissions a piece, you know, commissions Mozart to make this, this opera, which, which ends up being Don Giovanni or whatever.
• 16:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, that's like arts funding, right?
• 16:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like the, the, the, the established cultural hegemon of the time is giving this artist, you know, permission, welcoming them into the, the, you know, the, the popular ruling class.
• 16:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then there's a scene in Aade where Mozart's in an underground, bar room somewhere playing a harps score to making fart jokes.
• 16:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: And it's like, that's then the music, that's for the, the underclass and the, the subservient, the subservient of, of, there's this society who can't read, maybe, who can't read music or write music.
• 16:51
  Eamon Mcgrath: So like in the Austro-Hungarian empire, you had the high courts of Vienna, you know, who were publishing literally all this, all this recorded music, written music.
• 17:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then you had, you know.
• 17:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: People playing in a, in a, in a tavern somewhere.
• 17:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: And we'll never know what that music sounded like, but in the context of its time, that was the punk rock of its day, whatever that was.
• 17:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, um, you know, and then you kind of go down the chain and, we have, you know, then you get to the Alan Lomax when he, you know, traveling the US and documenting all these, all these, folk singers, Delta Blue singers before he came along and introduced that art form to the, you know, the established
• 17:34
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 17:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: that was the punk rock of its day and then, and so on and so on.
• 17:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: So, like, I think that it's, we, we do need a new term.
• 17:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think we do need a new word, but like, I sort of, and not in an el in an elitist sense, just from what I've noticed about my own ca career, I'm like the, the guy in the tavern, in the Austro-Hungarian empire that is, you know, like.
• 17:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: The goal of any musician is to, is to play for as many years as possible, but it's the means by which you do that and the means by which you achieve that goal that sets you apart from, you know, the, the dogmatic ruling class to like this sort of
• 18:15
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: free spirited libertarian underclass.
• 18:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that, that's the same paradigm.
• 18:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think those two different, uh, sort of parallel, parallel worlds.
• 18:26
  Glen Erickson: Well, I love this'cause we're 16 minutes in and I've already felt like I've lost about four rabbit holes that I would've loved to go down in our conversation, opening up ideas.
• 18:37
  Glen Erickson: And maybe we will come back around to them if my A DHD is under wraps today.
• 18:41
  Glen Erickson: But, but let me ask you this.
• 18:43
  Glen Erickson: Well, actually, let me just say this really quick.
• 18:45
  Glen Erickson: Um, I feel like when you were talking there about the Amadeus story, I feel like the pop culture reference would be the Titanic movie where, um.
• 18:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: absolutely.
• 18:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's a great
• 18:55
  Glen Erickson: you relate, if you relate to Leo, he goes, he takes the upper class girl, like under, under.
• 19:00
  Glen Erickson: And then they're having a wild party with, with wild Celtic music, which is what was punk to them at the time, which was like not refined, which just came purely out of spirit and emotion and
• 19:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: and play playing.
• 19:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: Playing by ear.
• 19:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like
• 19:14
  Glen Erickson: plane by ear.
• 19:15
  Glen Erickson: All of these
• 19:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: instruments.
• 19:17
  Glen Erickson: are on display, but in, in the pop culture sense, but in the real human sense, a viewer is allowed to connect with that and probably cheer that on.
• 19:28
  Glen Erickson: And then at the same time, the same viewer is probably gonna deeply relate to the little chamber quartet that's playing everybody out as the ship
• 19:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: As the ship goes
• 19:39
  Glen Erickson: in their, in their tuxedos and decide to stay with the ship and play this beautiful music.
• 19:45
  Glen Erickson: Um, because.
• 19:47
  Glen Erickson: Because ultimately the music is bigger than the labels or the context we try to put on it.
• 19:52
  Glen Erickson: So despite how different those worlds are, both of them had such significance, which
• 19:58
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and, and,
• 19:59
  Glen Erickson: capture by the director
• 20:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: and coexist.
• 20:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: Right.
• 20:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: And they coexist.
• 20:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and I'm not, and I'm not here to say that one is, is better than the other.
• 20:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, like, I, I know what I wanna get out of what I do.
• 20:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think I'm closer than ever before to finding peace with that because, you know, like I went through about 10 years where all I did was tour.
• 20:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: I spent my entire twenties in a, in a van.
• 20:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, thinking back on it now, living in Toronto and like always kind of chasing the dragon, putting out a record every 10 or 12 months, like quite actually like every year.
• 20:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then doing, you know, like these mammoth tours and like, I toured myself to the point of exhaustion and like near death.
• 20:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, I wonder now what my, what my aims were.
• 20:45
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I'm almost, I'm almost skeptical of my past decisions because I think that I was sort of like trying to achieve the same thing that, someone with like a more corporate mentality in music would be trying to achieve.
• 20:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: But I was just doing it on a non-existent budget.
• 20:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: But I was like, I was like chasing the dragon.
• 21:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I wanted to get on, you know, direct support slot slots.
• 21:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I was like, you know, I, the hustle was nonstop and now I've like totally like stepped back from it.
• 21:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I would way rather make the same amount of money or more playing to less people because there's so much more important things to me at this point in my life.
• 21:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: you know, like playing to a room of people who are actually listening.
• 21:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: you know, I'd rather do that than, than.
• 21:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: Get some big support, opportunity and play to a packed room of people that don't give a fuck.
• 21:36
  Glen Erickson: okay.
• 21:36
  Glen Erickson: That's, that's a great pivot.
• 21:39
  Glen Erickson: and I'm just gonna be willing to lose some of the ideas I had as we're talking because I know this is gonna be, uh, fun no matter where we go.
• 21:46
  Glen Erickson: But this is like.
• 21:48
  Glen Erickson: This is why I felt like a conversation with you could be unique and I wouldn't get certain things from other people.
• 21:55
  Glen Erickson: Like you have a story and a history, in this business, that is incredibly unique.
• 22:01
  Glen Erickson: and that reflection is really honest, so I appreciate it by the way.
• 22:04
  Glen Erickson: you know, having spent all those years, you know, being like the incredible world warrior first, I just wanna make a note that the very thing that you described, how you get exhausted by that version of chasing the dragon because you get exhausted, but the, the pursuit, right?
• 22:22
  Glen Erickson: Uh, and I'm making the assumptions and you can correct me where I'm wrong.
• 22:26
  Glen Erickson: It.
• 22:26
  Glen Erickson: It just gets fueled by a belief that you've seen it happen before.
• 22:31
  Glen Erickson: You've seen it around you.
• 22:32
  Glen Erickson: You maybe even seen it happen to peers, but you've definitely seen and read the stories of the people that were kind of your north star, your guiding light that you know, by doing this, you know, this will come someday.
• 22:45
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 22:45
  Glen Erickson: And especially, we started this whole conversation talking about the Canadian landscape actually being one of the hardest touring landscapes, but really shaped kind of in the fire, some incredible bands.
• 22:57
  Glen Erickson: And this ethic in Canada about this was the way that you built your career, right?
• 23:02
  Glen Erickson: Is that you had to drive, especially if you're Western Canada, you had to drive eight hours to get to the next city of 300,000 people compared to like in the States or in Europe where you're driving an hour and a half to get to a million or more, you know, a center and it shapes kind of who you are and starts to.
• 23:23
  Glen Erickson: But it can beat you down.
• 23:24
  Glen Erickson: But you expect that something's gonna happen.
• 23:26
  Glen Erickson: You expect that something's gonna happen.
• 23:28
  Glen Erickson: And so the way I'm framing this is, this is what weeds out most people.
• 23:34
  Glen Erickson: Like why is the Canadian music scene never been bigger or always had this tension of like, we need to really promote our artists and help them to compete with, you know, the American music scene and the big industry there and all the things that have come out of that.
• 23:49
  Glen Erickson: Well, how about we just talk about the fact that what it takes and what we've seen as the ethic of how you do this beats and, and destroys people pretty fast.
• 24:00
  Glen Erickson: It's very hard.
• 24:01
  Glen Erickson: And you have the unique position right now, 20 years down the road, despite your reflections, which I'd love to hear more about of you actually.
• 24:15
  Glen Erickson: You actually lived through it, you've persevered it where most people have dropped off and died to be able to have that reflection.
• 24:23
  Glen Erickson: You're one of the few who's even gotten that far down the road of doing that.
• 24:28
  Glen Erickson: And I think what's interesting for me to hear you say the reflection of like, maybe I didn't always make the best choices, and maybe some of the values that you're learning right now are ones you wanna think about how to implement to keep going.
• 24:43
  Glen Erickson: There's very few people I feel I could call up to have that.
• 24:47
  Glen Erickson: There's a few people I know who maybe have gotten more onto the mainstream machines, so there's a bit more of a machine kind of floating them along.
• 24:56
  Glen Erickson: There's guys like another Edmonton guy, Scott Cook is maybe the only other guy I know who's like the,
• 25:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: A road.
• 25:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: Road dog.
• 25:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 25:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Oh yeah.
• 25:04
  Glen Erickson: dog, right.
• 25:04
  Glen Erickson: Who just, you know, he's like 300 days a year out playing everywhere.
• 25:11
  Glen Erickson: They'll let him just set up with his acoustic guitar and play and, that's a story that most people can't get to.
• 25:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: there's so much there.
• 25:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, like what you're talking about is a testEamont to how fast everything changes, not just now, but like the bands that I idolized when I was, when I was 15 or 16, who were like, pretty much for me, the ultimate, uh, band was the, was the Constantine.
• 25:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I make, I'm pretty public about, about my love for the con, the Constantine.
• 25:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: but the, the Canadian music industry in particular, but the music industry in general is just like, I, I didn't even realize how much it changed from the first time I saw the Constantine to the first time I started touring, let alone, uh, you know, between the first time I started touring to now, like even the three years.
• 26:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: I saw the band, the, the, that band for the first time and actually was able to go out on the road myself and, and make a living.
• 26:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: There was, it was a totally different landscape, you know, like, I, I was too young to realize how quickly it had already become something else.
• 26:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I, I think about that a lot.
• 26:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, for me, like probably the, the, the, like I've had this kind of epiphany in the last few years after the pandemic and how hard it was to get everything going once everything opened up again and the like, that was a really hard stretch of time.
• 26:37
  Eamon Mcgrath: you know, and so it's hard to not get like, wrapped up into this sort of like golden age mentality syndrome where, you know, I'd be like, well, the best time to be a Canadian musician was between 1995 and 2005.
• 26:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: That was like the golden age.
• 26:51
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, but that came with its own, Horrible side effects too.
• 26:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, you know, like nowadays, you know, as cities get bigger and urban centers get more expensive and, um, more and more people move to smaller towns, Canada, Canada is easier to tour than ever, but, starting is harder than ever.
• 27:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think
• 27:13
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 27:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: like when I was younger, you just kind of, you just kinda did it.
• 27:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like it wasn't a, like, you just sort of drove, you picked a direction and drove.
• 27:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: Um, now, you know, and then, and then
• 27:25
  Glen Erickson: And, and without, without phones that had a map on it for you
• 27:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: like, it was just, it was, it was crazy and it was beautiful and it was wild and it was unexplored and like, but like, we're still, we still don't know what's gonna happen.
• 27:40
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like we still don't know what's around the corner, especially as Canadians, because like, we don't know how it feels to live in a country that's like.
• 27:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: Geographically closer together.
• 27:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, we still don't know what that looks like.
• 27:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like as a, as someone who's lived in Ontario for 15 years, I mean, I, like, I, I can't believe how, you know, you a 4 0 1 tour used to be something you did on a Thursday to Sunday.
• 28:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: That was it.
• 28:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: Now you could spend, you know, three and a half weeks tour in Ontario and never have a day off.
• 28:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, it's just totally different,
• 28:12
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 28:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: you know?
• 28:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: so yeah, it's, it's hard, it's hard to keep track of how much it's changed and the changes have been so gradual, I think like that, that you don't even, uh, you don't even really notice that they've happened at all until you think back and reflect on the, the timeline.
• 28:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I can't, I can't believe how different it is now.
• 28:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so, so the, like, there used to be, you know, this very like concrete sort of input output equation where like.
• 28:40
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, you, you know, you did certain things a certain way and you got a certain result, and now it's just so abstract and it's so unpredictable that I personally have just decided to not even bother anymore with any of the mechanics or the schematics and shit that used to matter.
• 29:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like you used to write a, a marketing plan and, and, you know, you'd time your tours to your record releases and there was these things called a cycle.
• 29:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: Now, I don't even, I don't even think that matters anymore.
• 29:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I, I've been, I,
• 29:13
  Glen Erickson: it doesn't.
• 29:14
  Glen Erickson: I'm talking to a lot of people, like the concept of this 18 month cycle of an album release is like done.
• 29:19
  Glen Erickson: It's
• 29:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: It is all ancient and it's all out the window, and it's just, now I'm at this point where like, uh, I just, I just wanna do what feels good.
• 29:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's, that's all I want.
• 29:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I'm sick of like, fighting, a battle.
• 29:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm never gonna win, you know, I'm.
• 29:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm sick of like, trying to rally the troops and like this, this like call to arms mentality.
• 29:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, and again, going back to what you were talking about, about punk rock, like that's like the number one thing with punk rock is like mobilizing your community to fight this eternal battle.
• 29:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: But now I think the best thing we can do is just exist peacefully, like away from it all.
• 29:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I just don't even wanna bother with it anymore.
• 30:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I think in doing that, uh, I probably found more artistic peace than I, than I did when I was younger, which is really nice.
• 30:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 30:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: um, and it's only when, it's only when like the, the mechanics start to be, and the administration and the, the anal retentive stuff start to become
• 30:26
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: That, that i, that I get frustrated,
• 30:29
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean that, uh, so funny, like I, so I had an episode with your good friend Peter Dreimanus, and, he, he talked about having a kid.
• 30:40
  Glen Erickson: And he, the way you sort of just described, like maybe the most punk rock thing is like existing peacefully and bringing these things into the world as counterculture.
• 30:48
  Glen Erickson: And then, he described having the kid and the things that he's been learning.
• 30:52
  Glen Erickson: He's like, maybe the most punk rock thing I can do is like, be a good dad and be there for my kid.
• 30:58
  Glen Erickson: it's a, it's this, it's, yeah, it's this seasoned perspective for
• 31:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think, I think, I think you can, you, like the most punk rock thing you can do is facilitate, facilitate joy as much as possible.
• 31:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like the, the feeling in and of itself is, is, is, is no, it's not connected to any movement or anything.
• 31:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's just like what Human being doesn't want to be happy.
• 31:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like there's nothing, there's nothing like inherently.
• 31:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: Contrarian or something to being, to being in a great place.
• 31:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, but I
• 31:35
  Glen Erickson: but you used the word joy.
• 31:37
  Glen Erickson: You just used the word joy, which I've grown up figuring out a very clear distinction between joy and happiness.
• 31:43
  Glen Erickson: So yeah, which human doesn't want to be happy, but I love the way that you've actually first said that like maybe the most punk rock thing is facilitating joy,
• 31:52
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah, like, like
• 31:54
  Glen Erickson: cre.
• 31:54
  Glen Erickson: It's the stirring, right?
• 31:56
  Glen Erickson: Like happiness is, feels like a state.
• 31:58
  Glen Erickson: Joy is something that stirs
• 32:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: and, and, and, and, and the work.
• 32:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I think like now that the music industry especially is so decentralized and it is so, you know, every person for themselves and it is so fragmented and it's just anarchy like more so than ever, you know, the, the, the, it's, IM, it's important to really have a sense of ownership on the immediate work that you do within your.
• 32:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: Community and that work should benefit you and your community.
• 32:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: Not like a, a faceless, uh, booking agent somewhere, you know?
• 32:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: Or like, like a, a someone who works for a label that you're on and you've never even met them.
• 32:40
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like the there it used to be that it was like, you know, you had this feeling that you were working for other people.
• 32:46
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I, and I think one of the good things about this kind of post-apocalyptic Phoenix rising from the ashes industry that we're in now after COVID, is that more and more artists are realizing that at the end of the day, they're gonna be the ones that are still making records.
• 33:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: And if you have this, this burning desire to do something and, and like, um, you know, there's this work in your life that you have this hunger to do, then you're the only person that you're accountable
• 33:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 33:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I love that.
• 33:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, because I can, I can tour whenever I want.
• 33:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: I really, I could, I I, I could have the whole time, but, I had that narrative of the, the popular consciousness telling me that there was like a strategy to everything and that burnt me out just as hard as actually playing the shows, like feeling like
• 33:36
  Glen Erickson: that the bottom line?
• 33:37
  Glen Erickson: Is the bottom line of that?
• 33:40
  Glen Erickson: That if you don't do it.
• 33:42
  Glen Erickson: I mean,'cause I, I'm guessing, I'm making an assumption here, Iman, that like, like sustaining a living is really hard in this business, right?
• 33:53
  Glen Erickson: And so if, you know, that narrative feels like it's, it's partially driven by fame and just the pursuit because we're in an, an attention industry.
• 34:04
  Glen Erickson: Um, but it's also just driven when you've done it even for a short period of time.
• 34:09
  Glen Erickson: Like three, four years is all it takes before you realize, I could do all these pursuits for the attention fame, but I actually have to keep this machine running that will pay the bills while I keep doing that.
• 34:24
  Glen Erickson: Is that more of the narrative over even the long period of time for you to be like that you kept doing it longer.
• 34:31
  Glen Erickson: You did it longer than probably you wanted to have to do it because really like the most punk rock thing I saw about you.
• 34:39
  Glen Erickson: Looking over your stuff was realizing you don't even have a fucking website under your domain name anymore.
• 34:45
  Glen Erickson: You let
• 34:45
  Eamon Mcgrath: I don't,
• 34:46
  Glen Erickson: which is in the attention industry right now in like 2025 is probably the most anti-establishment thing that you could do, which I think was awesome.
• 34:56
  Glen Erickson: But, that must take just a long time to let go because what you're talking about is I just want to do things this way now for the feeling, for the, for this personal satisfaction for smaller people that would actually give a shit and not spend all these resources of your own energy and mental stability on the people who maybe you've learned never gave a shit anyhow.
• 35:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: Mm-hmm.
• 35:21
  Glen Erickson: How did, how did you get there?
• 35:24
  Glen Erickson: Like,
• 35:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well, yeah.
• 35:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: Here, here's an example.
• 35:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, okay.
• 35:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like my partner Sheila and I run, we, we run cassettes records, which is a, a label, but also we put on shows, we book tours, uh, we record bands.
• 35:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: We, we do, we do everything that you could possibly do to help.
• 35:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: Music and artists that you love and care about and wanna support.
• 35:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: and you know, we've had a couple really like beautiful moments where we've done really small shows for really amazing songwriters or bands, um, with an affordable ticket price and a great intimate, cozy atmospheric venue.
• 36:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, you know, that maybe like 20 people showed up to the, the show at, but the artist still made, you know, 500 bucks and like everybody was moved.
• 36:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then at the end of it, you just look at each other and you're like, whoa.
• 36:22
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, why does it have to be more than this?
• 36:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: What else is there?
• 36:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and then it's like, oh yeah, this is all it has to be.
• 36:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and because Sheila and I approach music as people that, you know.
• 36:37
  Eamon Mcgrath: Lived in a world before the internet that, that like listened to vinyl and made mixtapes for people.
• 36:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: And like if you wanted to go see a show, you had to, you know, camp out, uh, in front of the record store to wait to get tickets.
• 36:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: And like music mattered to us in this like, very labor intensive way.
• 36:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: So we never just consumed music.
• 36:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like it wasn't something that we consumed, it wasn't like going to buy ground beef at the grocery store.
• 37:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's what it's become.
• 37:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and that in turn has made it so that people that wanna go see a show are more interested at the opportunity of being in the presence of fame than they are at the opportunity to truly be affected by something beautiful.
• 37:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I don't need to go and try to, uh, convince all these people that are never gonna give a shit about what I do, that I'm worth listening to.
• 37:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: I just don't have to do it.
• 37:30
  Glen Erickson: And maybe they haven't been affected yet.
• 37:33
  Glen Erickson: This is what I wonder, right.
• 37:34
  Glen Erickson: Especially'cause I've got a 20-year-old daughter who's like loving music.
• 37:39
  Glen Erickson: She helps me on the podcast.
• 37:41
  Glen Erickson: We do this together.
• 37:42
  Glen Erickson: We go to Folk Fest every year.
• 37:44
  Glen Erickson: Uh, kinda raised her on it, so I'm loving that.
• 37:47
  Glen Erickson: She's like growing into that.
• 37:49
  Glen Erickson: But it also makes me see how many people aren't beautifully affected.
• 37:53
  Glen Erickson: Like you said, like, and I, even this last year, I got really kind of taken aback by it and I realized that I, and this, this is the honest confession.
• 38:04
  Glen Erickson: 'cause what you're talking about is where I see it even happening in me.
• 38:08
  Glen Erickson: Who's involved in this business get disaffected by the way that it's consumed.
• 38:13
  Glen Erickson: Like you talk about pejorative and the term content being the biggest pejorative around now, everything's just content.
• 38:20
  Glen Erickson: If it's put online, it's content.
• 38:21
  Glen Erickson: Music isn't content.
• 38:24
  Glen Erickson: It's, it's a whole different force.
• 38:26
  Glen Erickson: And I remember watching, I, I knew, and he's not new, but because he is older, but a guy who's blowing up now, Steven Wilson Jr.
• 38:35
  Glen Erickson: Was here and watched him do a thing where you've been around folk fest.
• 38:40
  Glen Erickson: Like if somebody has a moment where they command that whole hill,
• 38:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: Mm-hmm.
• 38:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 38:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's great.
• 38:45
  Glen Erickson: powerful.
• 38:46
  Glen Erickson: And then the next day it was, it started pouring rain in a, in a typical folk fest way.
• 38:51
  Glen Erickson: And this young new group that was just blowing up called Richie Mitch and the Coal Miners, um, what I could tell is like they were like every young band gonna save their big hit song.
• 39:03
  Glen Erickson: Because they were there off a viral song that had like a billion streams.
• 39:07
  Glen Erickson: And then the next one is like not anywhere close.
• 39:10
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 39:10
  Glen Erickson: So that song caught on.
• 39:12
  Glen Erickson: That's why they're there on Folk Fest.
• 39:14
  Glen Erickson: They know it.
• 39:15
  Glen Erickson: there's a lot of young people there, which is awesome to see.
• 39:18
  Glen Erickson: It starts pouring rain and just'cause I'm in the biz, I know that they started playing the hit song early'cause they knew they might get shut down.
• 39:28
  Glen Erickson: but they chose to do it for everybody.
• 39:32
  Glen Erickson: That the generated joy and the effectiveness of all the people to be sharing that moment.
• 39:39
  Glen Erickson: Dancing in the Rain, the band was getting soaked.
• 39:42
  Glen Erickson: They played it anyhow.
• 39:43
  Glen Erickson: They just ripped through it.
• 39:45
  Glen Erickson: It was an incredible thing to be a part of, but it just, what immediately, what I thought of when you talk about like this affected, you know, this beautiful effectiveness of music on people.
• 39:56
  Glen Erickson: I see what you're talking about because I see where it's happening even for myself, uh, in the way that we quote unquote consume anymore.
• 40:05
  Glen Erickson: And it also, what you said takes me all the way back to the early two thousands.
• 40:09
  Glen Erickson: I started my own label here in the city out of the same things, which is I knew how to do all those different things for people.
• 40:17
  Glen Erickson: So I just started, I put a name on it is really where it just came from.
• 40:22
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 40:22
  Glen Erickson: That's, uh, the DIY spirit, which, um, also made me think it's really
• 40:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's like, it's, it's like, it's like naming, it's like naming your band, you
• 40:31
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, yeah,
• 40:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: totally.
• 40:33
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 40:34
  Glen Erickson: Absolutely.
• 40:35
  Glen Erickson: I mean,
• 40:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: mean the fi but but those, but those moments you're talking about, I mean like, like, uh, uh, because of these really arbitrary and fake parameters that we've just created called followers or view counts or whatever, like, we've somehow been conditioned to believe that, uh, just because there's more people at the magic moment on Gallagher Park Hill.
• 41:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh.
• 41:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: That somehow, that moment is like more magical than if there's only 20 people there.
• 41:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's just crazy to, crazy to me.
• 41:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, like, uh,
• 41:14
  Glen Erickson: the same thing can happen despite the numbers
• 41:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: and, and I, I've seen, I, I mean I've like, it's like I know that this is happened to you too, where it's like you're at a show and there's only five people and you're like in the corner in tears with some, you know, listening to a, a, a songwriter that no one knows.
• 41:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: And the fact that there's nobody there makes that music or that, that moment so magical.
• 41:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, so I think that, the whole system has just been like toxified, uh, people are, people are, are just distracted and like searching for something that's not, in my opinion, worth searching for.
• 41:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, we live in like, like you said, an attention economy and it's like, Everything's become about volume.
• 42:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, like if you get a billion people to download your app for a dollar, you're a billionaire.
• 42:05
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I just think that our whole concept of, of value and cost as just a culture has just become like, it just doesn't make sense to me.
• 42:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: so yeah, I mean, for that reason, like, I wanna continue working to build, to bring like really true special moments to people that are gonna just recognize'em.
• 42:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: I don't care how many people do, I just want people to know that there's really great music being made on a small, local, regional scale.
• 42:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: And sometimes that's exactly what makes it so good, is the fact that, you know, like Ban, so like the Schmits were only banned for four years.
• 42:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, that's, that's what, that's what makes the ticket worth buying is because everything is fleeting and everything does have a cost.
• 42:52
  Eamon Mcgrath: And if it's.
• 42:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: If it's not permanent and it took a lot of effort to bring it to you, then it's, it's, it's valuable for its place and time.
• 43:01
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 43:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: that's how I think about, about all, all of it.
• 43:05
  Eamon Mcgrath: Now, I don't, I don't, I don't really play shows I don't wanna play anymore.
• 43:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I just that feeling of like grumbling and like throwing gear in the van because you gotta do some, you know, crappy gig to get yourself from point A, like point A to point B, or like, those are the experiences that, that, that really, truly burn you out.
• 43:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think,
• 43:28
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 43:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 43:29
  Glen Erickson: I mean, I, I've said this before, you referenced the band that I played in.
• 43:33
  Glen Erickson: I think one of the best gifts I was given, was to play with a couple of guys in that band who I don't know how, but they clearly had already figured that out, that, you know, they were like, we're gonna play the shows that we wanna play and we're gonna take the extra day to make the nice drive and, and kind of fill our spirits back up.
• 43:56
  Glen Erickson: you know, and, and go through the nice part of Canada, even though
• 43:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: Oh man,
• 44:00
  Glen Erickson: an extra day.
• 44:01
  Glen Erickson: And that kind of shit like made such a difference, um, to even surviving the seven-ish years that we survived.
• 44:08
  Glen Erickson: So,
• 44:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: it makes you a better musician.
• 44:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: It makes you better at bringing, you know, bringing the, the, bringing that moment to people.
• 44:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, like, I, I, you know, I was like the quintessential, like, you know, cross punk, like, I just refused to have a day off on tour.
• 44:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: It would be like my, my personal record was like, I, I did 62 shows in 58 days in Europe one
• 44:35
  Glen Erickson: Oh my God.
• 44:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: fly date show that night.
• 44:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, 62 shows and like nonstop.
• 44:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then like show get up in the morning, fly home, sometimes go straight to the airport after like, I was like masochistic.
• 44:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, I really thought that.
• 44:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: I was like, who knows what I thought.
• 44:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: I was like, I thought I was like this, you know?
• 44:56
  Glen Erickson: Superman.
• 44:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 44:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like this punk rock preacher or something or whatever.
• 45:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: And,
• 45:03
  Glen Erickson: Were you getting that narrative from the outside?
• 45:05
  Glen Erickson: Because people did start to talk about you in a sense of lore,
• 45:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think I was, to be honest with you, I think I was like totally depressed and, uh, like not dealing with a ton of things I probably should have taken the time to deal with.
• 45:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I was, I was using work as a, as a vice to distract me from things that I didn't ever take the time to, to deal with until I sobered the fuck up and, and did the work.
• 45:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: I what I, what I think was like, At the time was like a, a, a punk rock ethos, which I still have.
• 45:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: was actually just the execution of this really destructive substance abuse problem that, that, uh, that sort of had music as like the, the wrapping of the gift.
• 45:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I'm not, I'm not saying don't go out and play 62 shows in 58 days.
• 45:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I respect that insurmountably.
• 45:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, like my, all the people, all the people that I, uh, look up to did that.
• 46:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I think, and I'm really glad that I did do that.
• 46:05
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I, uh, think that like I did things that no one will ever take away from me.
• 46:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I also want to be known as someone that works really hard.
• 46:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: But I just think like anyone that kind of grows up and gets smarter, you wanna, you wanna work smart, not hard.
• 46:22
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's really all it comes down to.
• 46:24
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, well, you're not gonna, you're not gonna stick around and it sounds like you are planning on continuing, so that makes a lot of sense.
• 46:33
  Glen Erickson: Um,
• 46:33
  Eamon Mcgrath: just, and I wanna be able to like, do my job properly if I'm gonna do it, you know, like, I am pretty stubborn and I have some very strict ideals that I will not stray from.
• 46:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I don't want the things that I love to be the things that kill me in the end.
• 46:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know?
• 46:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I, I want those things to inspire me and I wanna like, I wanna, I wanna like, you know, grow them into something and, and flourish like a,
• 47:03
  Glen Erickson: that's a pretty huge statement.
• 47:05
  Glen Erickson: I think that might even be hard for some people to relate to that statement, even if, if they haven't been down that road, that the things that you love could also destroy you because there's lots of other factors and layers that you've built into your life that that would do so.
• 47:24
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 47:25
  Glen Erickson: And I think, let me ask you this,'cause like normally Amy and I actually start on people's timelines in my conversations.
• 47:33
  Glen Erickson: It's a nice framework.
• 47:35
  Glen Erickson: To sort of get their stories and, and find some common thread or some arc that is very relatable for everybody.
• 47:43
  Glen Erickson: And I even found when I was looking at your time, like I'm, I don't even know what the fuck, where to start with you.
• 47:50
  Glen Erickson: Um, because like there's so much, there's so much here and you've already alluded to it, so I love that we just kind of got rolling and I didn't even bother to have to do that.
• 47:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah,
• 48:00
  Glen Erickson: but but you've already referenced it a few times and I'm sort of curious, I am also extremely curious how somebody gets to where they are right now.
• 48:08
  Glen Erickson: 'cause we're talking right now, and I recognize that a lot of people listening won't know all the backstory that you and I know.
• 48:15
  Glen Erickson: so I'm, I'm not gonna go all the way back now and start a timeline right now, I guess what I'm saying.
• 48:21
  Glen Erickson: But what I do wanna ask you is like, what's clearly obvious is that you were like all in, in this like long.
• 48:30
  Glen Erickson: Like patchwork fabric of rock and roll history of artists who clearly this was all that they were ever gonna do.
• 48:37
  Glen Erickson: You said you started playing when you're 11.
• 48:39
  Glen Erickson: You were basically a touring musician at 18.
• 48:43
  Glen Erickson: This was all you were ever gonna do and all to continue to do, which really fits that, that historical legacy of when we look at the, the, the patchwork of, of this business.
• 48:55
  Glen Erickson: and you got into it and you have so many of the typical like stereotypical stories and sort of like the ethos just around you.
• 49:08
  Glen Erickson: Like, I know so many people that know you, right?
• 49:10
  Glen Erickson: And, and I will very quickly say, by the way, every person I know that knows you, loves you and always speaks so well of you
• 49:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: thanks.
• 49:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's nice to hear.
• 49:20
  Glen Erickson: And that you have so much respect in the Edmonton community, like of the highest respect, like going all the way back to, you know, make a callback and a, and a bookend on this was that maybe one of the reasons I never struck up conversations with you is I might have even been intimidated a little bit.
• 49:38
  Glen Erickson: 'cause there was such a lure about that you were just this very confident driven, highly respected artist and for being a very confident, secure person as I am.
• 49:50
  Glen Erickson: Like it even challenged my own security probably to, to do that.
• 49:55
  Glen Erickson: But
• 49:55
  Eamon Mcgrath: suffer from fucking debilitating Im imposter syndrome and just, just like everybody
• 50:02
  Glen Erickson: we all do.
• 50:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 50:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: all do.
• 50:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and I think that really it just comes down to like, uh, I think that there's these kind of like stages to artistic.
• 50:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: Development.
• 50:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and I'm not, I hope I don't sound pretentious here'cause I am just as unsure about every, everything as anybody else.
• 50:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: But I think there's, uh, you know, you, there's education, imitation creation, and then innovation.
• 50:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: And those are the things that I think are the sort of the four fundEEamontal, like, points on the trajectory of any creative person.
• 50:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: So
• 50:38
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 50:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: um, you learn how to play your instrument, you know, and then you, you imitate people who
• 50:45
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 50:45
  Glen Erickson: You're,
• 50:46
  Eamon Mcgrath: it better than you do.
• 50:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then, by learning how it feels to play the music that you love, you create new original music.
• 50:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then I think that there's another stage after that where you actually, uh, invent and, and, and perfect the, the means by which the, the, the art gets made.
• 51:05
  Eamon Mcgrath: So for example, like, uh, Jack White makes his own effects pedals.
• 51:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, to me it's like he went through all the, he learned how to play guitar.
• 51:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: He, he, you know, grew up, saw the gories, learned how to play blues, punk, wrote great songs with the white stripes.
• 51:22
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then he was like, something is missing and I know what it is, and I'm gonna fill that blank.
• 51:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's where the innovation happens.
• 51:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I think I'm like at the point where like, I know what it is that I wanna see from someone who I've trusted with, with, you know, finding an audience for my music and their respective market.
• 51:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: So I just want to be able to do that for other people.
• 51:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, to me that's like the, the next step is like, uh, facilitating those moments, those magical moments you're talking about somehow.
• 51:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and so in this weird way, the best thing that I could have done for my music was to stop playing it as much and, and try and like, give back and, and.
• 52:07
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, just become better at, at like, you know, just administering something true.
• 52:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I know it sounds so like hippie dippy and beaded curtain, and it's like, I, but, and that's not me.
• 52:22
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I don't,
• 52:24
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 52:24
  Glen Erickson: I don't think anybody would think it's you,
• 52:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: but,
• 52:26
  Glen Erickson: but what it does sound
• 52:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: truth to that.
• 52:29
  Glen Erickson: I know you're feeling like you're on the side of the coin where you're like, oh, I don't want to sound pretentious.
• 52:33
  Glen Erickson: You see the possibility of that.
• 52:36
  Glen Erickson: But just so you know, my side of the coin is this is really refreshing.
• 52:41
  Glen Erickson: To hear a guy who played this game really hard to the bone actually get to a place in your life and career where you can have that kind of perspective and that kind of like inner motivation is actually very, uh, positive.
• 52:56
  Glen Erickson: Reaffirming all of it.
• 52:58
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, that's, I hope so.
• 52:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I, and I, and I hope that it's not coming across as like, as.
• 53:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Maybe I was guilty of before where it's like, like, take the word, the word punk.
• 53:07
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I don't wanna have this like elitism anymore, where it's like, oh, I'm, I am a punk rocker, so I do it the the right way.
• 53:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then it's like, you know, join me or join us, or Gaba gaba, we accept you.
• 53:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: We accept you.
• 53:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: One of us, like, I don't care how bands wanna do it anymore.
• 53:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: I just want people to know that they, that there's no pressure.
• 53:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: And like, you don't have to worry.
• 53:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: And like, if you don't have, if you don't have 10,000 Spotify listeners, who fucking cares?
• 53:37
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, if you don't have, if you don't have 150 people at your show, who cares?
• 53:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, if it's gonna be fine.
• 53:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: And all that matters is that, is that music keeps getting made and that people wanna hear it, and that the people that are listening are the people that it matters to.
• 53:52
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's, that's it.
• 53:54
  Glen Erickson: I, uh, I heard a friend the other night, I was at this thing and I was overhearing,'cause a group of us were around and someone was talking about their new perspective.
• 54:04
  Glen Erickson: 'cause they're like, they're in their third late thirties and they're single still and they've had to do all these swipe apps and swipe culture.
• 54:11
  Glen Erickson: And, but they were talking about the fact that, What they hate about it the most wasn't the swipe culture.
• 54:17
  Glen Erickson: What they hate is like, it's completely just built on framing yourself by a set of categories and criteria and, and presupposing that that's how you want to find somebody else too.
• 54:31
  Glen Erickson: And they said, but they're in their late thirties and they realize that they don't have a set of checklists they wanna check off about ethnicity or age or weight or education or, or anything about a person.
• 54:44
  Glen Erickson: They're like, I just want to, I wanna find that person that I vibe with.
• 54:49
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I've figured out that I can vibe with people from all the categories and, but they're locked into categories.
• 54:56
  Glen Erickson: And while they were describing this, I was thinking about the music scene, which is sort of what
• 55:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: same exact thing.
• 55:01
  Glen Erickson: about, which is you get to a point where when you're younger, and maybe this is gonna sound terrible, especially if somebody thinks I'm calling them out for it, but.
• 55:11
  Glen Erickson: In a more immature state, not in, not in the negative sense of immature that we use it, but just in the natural growth and evolution.
• 55:19
  Glen Erickson: Like you, you know, you go from young and not knowing to older and knowing, um, you need the categories and criteria.
• 55:28
  Glen Erickson: They kind of help you.
• 55:29
  Glen Erickson: When I was a kid, you know, I was like this record label I found out, put out this kind of music by this band that I loved, and I would just go and listen to everything they put out because it was, it was a box that helped me find what I was searching for to a degree.
• 55:46
  Glen Erickson: Until you get older and you start to figure out, you know, the things we're talking about, which is like, I can find that stuff all over the place, anywhere.
• 55:54
  Glen Erickson: I just have to be open
• 55:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well,
• 55:56
  Glen Erickson: and let things pass through that aren't for me, and then find the ones that are for me.
• 56:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: I exactly like, I, I used, you know, we, we all did, we all used to fall in love with music that just kinda randomly punched us in the gut and didn't matter what it was.
• 56:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, like, uh, that's one of the most, that was one of the greatest things about, about, about punk rock for me when I was younger, was the fact that like, you could have this term that described everything from discharge through to the Replacements, to John Cooper Clark, to the fall, to, you know, like all these bands that sound nothing alike at all.
• 56:33
  Eamon Mcgrath: And the only thing that was similar about them was the fact that you connected with it so deeply and, and now people connect with things that just sound like other things they like, like, and that, that never even was a possibility when I, when I was younger, like, like you'd get recommended bands because.
• 56:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, like if, you know, if you like the replacements, you should check out Husker do.
• 56:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: But, it was that, that random sideswiped feeling of being like really affected by something that made me fall in love with it.
• 57:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: And now, like, I can't believe when people that are really into, uh, Spotify and stuff, I mean, and this is a 10-year-old discussion at this point, but it's like I've never once ever done like a, uh, like a new music Friday or whatever the hell those were, and I sound so antiquated.
• 57:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: But like, I never just wanted to program my brain.
• 57:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: I was just something that was
• 57:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 57:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: interested in doing.
• 57:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I was only ever chasing those moments that you're talking about.
• 57:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: That was the only criteria I ever had,
• 57:40
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 57:41
  Glen Erickson: I mean, it's always been funny, funny to me too, and, and maybe the other part about growing up.
• 57:49
  Glen Erickson: Is getting to a point, and this is what I think I would hope for everybody, is when you can release the power of perceptions, again, being in an attention business, but even just personally as a fan, we're, and that's what I love, part of our conversation, Eamon, is like we're talking about what it's like to be in the business and be a creator.
• 58:08
  Glen Erickson: We're also talking what it's like to be a fan, which is, I think, a really cool parallel conversation happening at the same time.
• 58:15
  Glen Erickson: And that, you know, there was a while there, like the truth about me is like if you were to tell me I could only have one person on my wall for the rest of my life, it'd be Johnny Cash.
• 58:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: Mm-hmm.
• 58:27
  Glen Erickson: I don't listen to Johnny Cash.
• 58:29
  Glen Erickson: I almost never pull up his songs for his record.
• 58:31
  Glen Erickson: They've never been the thing that, that musically kept me rolling, but the man himself and The, spirit of the man and, and the things he said and he stuck through to his, his vulnerability.
• 58:48
  Glen Erickson: To like literally live his mistakes on the big open stage and, and even the humility to allow himself to be loved for his mistakes, which I think is a deeper humility that I don't even know if I've gotten to yet in
• 59:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: it's the ulti, it's the ultimate way of owning, of owning your deci decisions.
• 59:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 59:10
  Glen Erickson: and his choice to wear black because he's like, I'd rather connect with the downtrodden of the world than, and he was, and that was, that came out of a time when he was at the meteoric rise.
• 59:23
  Glen Erickson: He was the hottest thing.
• 59:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: Mm-hmm.
• 59:25
  Glen Erickson: Um, and I'm like, that's the kind of person I always wanna
• 59:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, that's, that's
• 59:29
  Glen Erickson: I've worn black ever since
• 59:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah.
• 59:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and, and I mean, and it, that's a great example of those, like those two parallel approaches.
• 59:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like he could have easily at the time just been like, you know.
• 59:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: Chased radio singles and worn sequence suits.
• 59:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: But you're right, he, he wanted to,
• 59:46
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 59:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: he wanted to, to, to be a voice of, of working people.
• 59:50
  Glen Erickson: Okay, so, not to sound like, I've heard it lately, the kids calling like, glazing somebody, which I thought sounded interesting, but like, EEamon.
• 1:00:00
  Glen Erickson: You're somebody who's has like on a local level fit that for me.
• 1:00:04
  Glen Erickson: I just need you to know that upfront, um, like
• 1:00:07
  Eamon Mcgrath: you very much.
• 1:00:08
  Glen Erickson: your spirit to stick through all of this.
• 1:00:11
  Glen Erickson: and even the conviction that you've been talking about these things today is like, continues to be inspiring.
• 1:00:16
  Glen Erickson: So I think it's awesome.
• 1:00:17
  Glen Erickson: I should say thank you for that because I, again, like you talked at the very beginning about this weird ethos in Canada, how there's actually not that many people and we all essentially adjacently know each other.
• 1:00:29
  Glen Erickson: and so without really knowing each other, you've, you know, you've been sort of a, this is the kind of person I can very much respect and I would wanna be in this industry.
• 1:00:38
  Glen Erickson: So for the sake of everybody else, I just wanna call out like what this career has looked like for you a little bit so people could see is that when you talk about you just want to, you've always just wanted to keep working and working hard and you've kind of stuck to this ethos.
• 1:00:56
  Glen Erickson: Here's the amazing thing to me about, and I'm just interested on what your reflection,'cause you've been talking about being in a more reflective state right now in your life and career, like your discography is like, I can't count it.
• 1:01:08
  Glen Erickson: And because it's an impossible discography to count because
• 1:01:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, I don't even know,
• 1:01:14
  Glen Erickson: there's, there's a Spotify discography, which is mostly what we would call formal releases, for lack of a better term, which is massive, which they go all the way back to 2008, I think, or 2009 with your 13 songs in Whiskey and light, which,
• 1:01:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: That that album was, was, was of itself a, a compilation of, of songs from from
• 1:01:36
  Glen Erickson: That you had had around Yeah.
• 1:01:37
  Glen Erickson: For a while.
• 1:01:38
  Glen Erickson: And, and you know, but your discography, like you had had things around and you were making things DIY before that, obviously even with wild dogs.
• 1:01:47
  Glen Erickson: And, and then if you go to your band camp, there's these collections of records that you've made that have songs that appear on other things too that like, that you would never find on Spotify that were bonafide collections.
• 1:02:00
  Glen Erickson: You know, and I love some of them that you are clear that it's like I wrote all of these, like, and recorded them in the hotel rooms while I was on a tour.
• 1:02:07
  Glen Erickson: Or my favorite one was the one when you were on like, you know, a plane ride or trying to get back home on the holidays from hell.
• 1:02:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: I can't, I can't believe you know that you're totally
• 1:02:18
  Glen Erickson: you, and you wrote.
• 1:02:19
  Glen Erickson: I know, and you wrote this whole, so you basically wrote these songs while you were stuck in airports and sleeping on the floors of things and, and trying to get back to Edmonton.
• 1:02:29
  Glen Erickson: And then you recorded them while you're here, and then you're back on a plane back to Toronto and, and so I mean, those collections kinda live, and this is what I love about DIY.
• 1:02:36
  Glen Erickson: They don't live on Spotify, they live on Bandcamp, and, and they could, uh, but, but then you have songs in there that like end up on other records or songs that you've released on there that were probably from the past, but you've pulled out like sort of original versions.
• 1:02:52
  Glen Erickson: So like the amount of discography you have.
• 1:02:54
  Glen Erickson: In other words, I've talked to a lot of people and then they talk about different people who are prolific.
• 1:03:00
  Glen Erickson: Um, and I don't know whether you've felt like that word applies to you or again, your imposter syndrome creeps up if somebody like me tries to bring it up.
• 1:03:07
  Glen Erickson: But.
• 1:03:08
  Glen Erickson: The amount of production that you've done, like besides doing, you know, 60 some shows in 50 days, which is one kind of a incredible excessive haul of performance and performance grit.
• 1:03:22
  Glen Erickson: you are writing and recording grit because, uh, let me just quickly call out too.
• 1:03:27
  Glen Erickson: Like, not everybody in this business like writes a shit ton of songs.
• 1:03:33
  Glen Erickson: Like some people write 10 songs and then that's their record, and then that record lives for three or four years.
• 1:03:39
  Glen Erickson: And other people you hear about them, they're like, oh, we had 58 songs and the producer made us whittle it down to 11 for this record.
• 1:03:47
  Glen Erickson: And everyone who's a fan goes, what happened to the other 40 songs?
• 1:03:50
  Glen Erickson: Like they wanna know, but you've got this discography that's like 2008, 2009, 2010, 2000 12, 13, 14, you know, and then you've got like.
• 1:04:01
  Glen Erickson: 11 and I, I'm assuming this is pandemic isolation related, then you release technically 11 different projects in 2022.
• 1:04:12
  Glen Erickson: and some of them are a series of things and some of them are a collection of, you know, some of the raw stuff.
• 1:04:18
  Glen Erickson: But you, you have it all.
• 1:04:20
  Glen Erickson: You've made it all.
• 1:04:21
  Glen Erickson: You've created all, and you've found the way to put it out there in this effort, which is like one thing to write, another thing to record, and then that massive thing that happens that nobody sees in between, which is decision making, producing workshopping with other musicians, packaging, deciding how to promote, doing all the work where you're like endless emails or phone calls and thinking, what connections do I need to get this out?
• 1:04:51
  Glen Erickson: Or like all that other stuff that happens besides just producing the art.
• 1:04:56
  Glen Erickson: And you've got this ridiculous.
• 1:04:59
  Glen Erickson: List.
• 1:04:59
  Glen Erickson: And then your most recent ones I've noticed on Spotify are like in collaboration with some other artists.
• 1:05:07
  Glen Erickson: A couple of them, like on a few, like, like it's happened, you've recorded a few with some people multiple times, and so that's kind of a new version of doing that still.
• 1:05:18
  Glen Erickson: And then in between that you got like two books, which are like really good books and ideas and executions for your career and what you've gone
• 1:05:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm not usually, I'm not very used to being buttered up like this, but, uh,
• 1:05:32
  Glen Erickson: uh, well let me, let me, let me, okay, well, let me bring it down a little bit.
• 1:05:36
  Glen Erickson: What's amazing too is that in the middle of that is like over half that career maybe I, I'm not sure of the timeline exactly, but Notorious excess living, typical rockstar, like destructive.
• 1:05:54
  Glen Erickson: Like not just yourself, but the community of people you were in.
• 1:05:57
  Glen Erickson: It was very clear, like you like lived that
• 1:06:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: de, I definitely pushed pushed it to the, to the brink.
• 1:06:05
  Glen Erickson: while you were doing all of this.
• 1:06:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:09
  Glen Erickson: It is just crazy to me, like this is just like one of the craziest things when I really sit and think
• 1:06:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: crazy to me too.
• 1:06:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I, uh, I
• 1:06:16
  Glen Erickson: I'm just wondering how this all happens.
• 1:06:19
  Glen Erickson: Like is this a thing where you sit there and say, I don't know how I could have done it any other way?
• 1:06:25
  Glen Erickson: Or
• 1:06:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: It is a multi loaded
• 1:06:28
  Glen Erickson: reflected on what the lesson
• 1:06:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah.
• 1:06:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: Oh, yeah.
• 1:06:30
  Glen Erickson: or how it happened?
• 1:06:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: well, with the being, like being, being prolific or, or whatever word you wanna use, like, in the way that we were talking about when we were younger, like you just, you just got in the van and you picked a direction and you drove and you played shows because that's just what you did.
• 1:06:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: that's, that's like it for me.
• 1:06:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: And when it comes to making records and shit, like, I'm not trying to prove a point.
• 1:06:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm not trying to like, uh, win a contest.
• 1:06:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's like, it's just like, I just this, like, I just, you know, I, I, when I, when I wrote a song, I would record it and when I recorded 10 songs, I would put them in a little CD jacket and sell them at shows.
• 1:07:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, it was no equation.
• 1:07:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's just, it's just what I did.
• 1:07:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: Just, you know, just like, um, with like a lot of bands.
• 1:07:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: Low lofi vans like Sedo or Eric's trip or whatever.
• 1:07:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: Um, stuff I love, but it's like they just, they recorded on, on four tracks because it's just all they had.
• 1:07:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, they, you know, like, they were just like, well, we can afford this, so we'll get, and then it's just funny how something that's just kind of this inevitability in your own mind becomes like anesthetic.
• 1:07:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like it's, that's not ever
• 1:07:40
  Glen Erickson: it's very true.
• 1:07:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: the goal.
• 1:07:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, you just, you do what you do and you, you, you know, you get, you have a method of working and it just one day it, uh, you know, you just got a lot of releases.
• 1:07:51
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, there's really not much more to it than that.
• 1:07:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: And like, uh, you know, for me it was just like I was, um, when it comes to the other stuff, like, I, I think that anybody that, that says that, you know, like booze or drugs or whatever hasn't had an impact on, on, uh.
• 1:08:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, art history is just a liar.
• 1:08:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, it's not, it's just not true.
• 1:08:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, I don't think that the, the people that did the, the cave paintings in, in Lascoe were, were not on some mind altering substance.
• 1:08:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm pretty sure that, I'm pretty sure that there was a shaman around or something
• 1:08:35
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:08:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: uh, you know, I just, I just, I, I, without dwelling on it too much.
• 1:08:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: 'cause I also don't want to become one of those fucking, like, people that talks about being sober in every interview they do.
• 1:08:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: But I definitely wish that I had done it sooner, you know?
• 1:08:52
  Eamon Mcgrath: But at the same time, uh, and I know it sounds cliched and, and cheesy and stuff, but like, um, people that are, that are, you know, some, someone who's really struggling with, with, uh, substance abuse problem or a lifestyle like the, the most shit faced you've ever seen that person, they might be closer to quitting than you've ever even.
• 1:09:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: Than you, than they've ever, than they've ever been.
• 1:09:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, like there's no, there's no right way.
• 1:09:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's just like, um, for me it was just a matter of like, it just needed to happen'cause I was gonna die and I never, again, it was just like, I never thought of the two things as, as related.
• 1:09:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I, I just both, both, both things.
• 1:09:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: The prolificness and like, just the, the, the notoriety or infa, like being infamous for living that way were both things that I never ever gave a second thought to.
• 1:09:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I didn't, I never had a, there was never like, like the, the, the, all the crazy stories and all the, the stuff that's become kind of mythologized about me was, was never anything that I related to, like my philosophy on the creation of music.
• 1:10:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, they were totally unrelated.
• 1:10:05
  Eamon Mcgrath: It was just, I was just a, you know, self-destructive.
• 1:10:10
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:10:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: animal.
• 1:10:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, there wasn't a lot of intellectualism there.
• 1:10:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm so, I'm not gonna try and like, and excuse, excuse it, and, and make it, seem more important than it was, you know?
• 1:10:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: But having said that, if I hadn't lived the life that I lived, I probably would not have had a lot of experiences that I, that I had, that I ended up writing about.
• 1:10:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, um, if I were to say that it didn't have this impact on who I was, I would be lying, you know?
• 1:10:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: But, but, uh,
• 1:10:40
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, none of us have the luxury of looking back and, and making, you know, suggestions or guesses about how anything would be
• 1:10:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah, like I have, I have no explanation and I, and I think that I, you know, it, like, it put me in a lot of great situations, put me in a lot of terrible situations.
• 1:10:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and, but like, I'm sure like someone who, you know, is coming out of a, a prison sentence or something, it, like, it or not, it really did have an impact on, on.
• 1:11:07
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, who you, who you became, but Al Alcoholism is, is like a prison sentence.
• 1:11:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, it's like, I just, I don't even think it, it doesn't even feel good.
• 1:11:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: I don't know.
• 1:11:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: I don't know why we, we do it, but, but, uh, I just know that my life is better now that I've, I've stopped.
• 1:11:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I mean, it is funny how like, um, you know, like the, the, the, the calm and, and reflection and like ability to actually like, be this, this truer version of who I am.
• 1:11:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: I find it, I find it interesting when I think about the, just the timeline of, of my career or whatever, how like, you know, three, three years into being sober.
• 1:11:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I've, I've toured less now than I ever have and I'm more sober now than I've ever been.
• 1:11:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and, um, because I just think that, I just think there's way more to get outta life,
• 1:11:58
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:11:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: you
• 1:11:59
  Glen Erickson: Um, so.
• 1:12:01
  Glen Erickson: I referenced before, like I had a great conversation with Peter and he spent a lot of time talking about his upbringing here in Edmonton, you know, as it sort of led into when he moved to Toronto and how things happened.
• 1:12:14
  Glen Erickson: But what shaped him, and you were a lot a part of a lot of those stories and I, I, I really appreciated how he respectfully, he wasn't trying to tell your story, which I thought was really cool.
• 1:12:27
  Glen Erickson: I could tell that he was very mindful of not sort of implying anything about your story, which I thought was very respectful and, uh, very mature approach as well.
• 1:12:40
  Glen Erickson: You guys were pretty interwoven for a while.
• 1:12:42
  Glen Erickson: You know, he talked about how he was trying to frame how the industry, it's so married in this industry, you know, there's some obvious reasons, which is, you know, bar owners are using live music as a loss leader for.
• 1:12:57
  Glen Erickson: Bringing in patrons and, and then so you get a culture of drinking and music being inseparable from each other.
• 1:13:04
  Glen Erickson: So, and then the obvious humanity part of that is, well, some of us are predisposed and wired for this to be a problem and others aren't.
• 1:13:15
  Glen Erickson: And both are being thrown in with the same amount of force into the same culture.
• 1:13:21
  Glen Erickson: And inevitably you're gonna see destructive problems end up in some and not in others.
• 1:13:27
  Glen Erickson: And it's not fair.
• 1:13:29
  Glen Erickson: And we don't know why.
• 1:13:29
  Glen Erickson: Like you said before, I don't know why, but it's feels like a prison sentence.
• 1:13:33
  Glen Erickson: And that's just the nature of what it is.
• 1:13:36
  Glen Erickson: And it's separate from music, but then it becomes inseparable because it's your life and your story, and this is your career.
• 1:13:43
  Glen Erickson: And they're all, it's not just a music career, it's Eamon McGrath's life.
• 1:13:47
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:13:48
  Glen Erickson: And I think fans don't always immediately make that distinction.
• 1:13:54
  Glen Erickson: And so.
• 1:13:55
  Glen Erickson: A lot can get said or talked about that is right or wrong and not always fair.
• 1:14:00
  Glen Erickson: But I think, I guess the way that you just frame that I feel is also great because I don't want to, I don't want to glorify it in any way by talking about it.
• 1:14:11
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:14:12
  Glen Erickson: And, what I find interesting that I'm curious from you, because I know a lot of people who have, I know some people who I think don't realize they're still in it and a lot of people who've gotten out and gotten help.
• 1:14:27
  Glen Erickson: And one thing I've learned is, like you said, it's different for everybody.
• 1:14:31
  Glen Erickson: And even the way out is different for everybody.
• 1:14:34
  Glen Erickson: And, but I think hearing how somebody got out, I've learned from others is always important for people who are in it.
• 1:14:43
  Glen Erickson: 'cause you never know who's listening and who needs something.
• 1:14:46
  Glen Erickson: So I'm just curious, what was your way, what was your, like, what was, you know.
• 1:14:53
  Glen Erickson: In certain programs, they might call it your bottom or whatever, but what was, what was the thing for you that finally flipped the
• 1:15:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: I just, I, I end, I'll be, yeah.
• 1:15:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'll be honest, but I, I ended up in a, in a, in a bike lane in the rain, you know, it was pretty pathetic.
• 1:15:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: It was like probably something that, relatively speaking was actually not even the craziest situation I'd ever been in, but I just.
• 1:15:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: I came to, it was passed out middle of the road, and I just woke up in the morning in my own bed and just decided I needed to stop or I was gonna die.
• 1:15:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: And there's no other,
• 1:15:27
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 1:15:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: an element about it.
• 1:15:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's cool.
• 1:15:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: There's not an el element about it that's like worth, uh, you know, like it's, it's a, it was a throwaway moment.
• 1:15:36
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:15:37
  Glen Erickson: I'm not looking for a headline,
• 1:15:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: no, no, no, no.
• 1:15:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and like, and, but, but so my point, like, as a segue is like the thing about, about, uh, like now as someone who's, who's quit drinking and still, you know, ends up in bars all the time, um, uh, the, the, the worst part about the, the, the dependency that the music industry's had on, on, on boo sales to, for its propagation is for me, the, the number one thing is just the monotony.
• 1:16:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: And now.
• 1:16:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I like playing shows in other venues aside from bars, not because I have a problem being around people that are wasted or, uh, being around booze because like, I, like we said earlier, like if, I mean the money's a, the money's gotta come from somewhere.
• 1:16:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: Um, b, if you think that the world's great writers didn't write drunk and edit sober, you are just plain wrong.
• 1:16:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's just not, it's just it, you know,
• 1:16:42
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 1:16:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: the thing, the thing that that, that drives me crazy about it is that we've been now conditioned to accept this, this standard of just like boring regularity.
• 1:16:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: And as a, uh, we've gotten to this point as a culture where only now people are realizing that, great art can exist in, in other situations and in other places and in other locations.
• 1:17:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, uh, as.
• 1:17:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: The whole thing becomes more and more corporatized and, and since COVID, less and less people are drinking.
• 1:17:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: people are looking for new brick and mortar places to have music,
• 1:17:21
  Glen Erickson: well that's a big point.
• 1:17:22
  Glen Erickson: It's because they're shutting down, right?
• 1:17:24
  Glen Erickson: Because a lot of places shut down'cause of COVID.
• 1:17:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah,
• 1:17:28
  Glen Erickson: the, IM, the immediate cry in our business is there's less venues to play and it's gonna kill us,
• 1:17:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah.
• 1:17:34
  Glen Erickson: but this.
• 1:17:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: that's crazy.
• 1:17:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, like your, your house is a venue.
• 1:17:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: You're, uh, you know, like
• 1:17:39
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:17:40
  Eamon Mcgrath: there's so many other ways to, to facilitate.
• 1:17:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: And again, we'll, we'll bring it back to what we were talking about, those, those magic moments and people are, so when, when you're, when you're like, I thought, you know, as like in my, my 15 years of, of, uh, just chronic, uh, you know, partying or whatever, I thought I was, I was feeling all these.
• 1:18:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Great emotions when I'd go out and get wasted and see a band that I loved.
• 1:18:07
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, now in hindsight, I realized that I was actually feeling like nothing at all.
• 1:18:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, it, it just, it numbed me completely to things.
• 1:18:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I think that people don't realize that the danger in just having, uh, an arts community that, that's oriented around one linchpin like booze sales, like it has been for decades, that does disastrous things to your ability to, like, appreciate art in a natural way.
• 1:18:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think because people just become accustomed to having just one experience.
• 1:18:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's,
• 1:18:39
  Glen Erickson: I think that's,
• 1:18:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's just not even, it's not a good way of like, of, of thinking about music,
• 1:18:46
  Glen Erickson: And when we first started talking in the very, again, I, we keep making callbacks, which is always fun, but when we first started talking, and I even told you, I keep having these rabbit hole ideas of where we could go, but we were just talking about the touring part and the Canadian landscape and the, and all that.
• 1:19:02
  Glen Erickson: And, one of the first things that always comes to mind to me is like how much I've really, really learned in this latest phase of my life that some of the best music and art has always been far formed out of like out of a lack of abundance, out of a lack of a scene, out of the need to create where there isn't anything
• 1:19:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: Absolutely.
• 1:19:24
  Glen Erickson: out of abundance, not of having like everything available to you, but people who only had s.
• 1:19:31
  Glen Erickson: A couple of cheap instruments to play and they found a way to make a cool, unique sound on it.
• 1:19:36
  Glen Erickson: And people who, there was only one place to play music.
• 1:19:41
  Glen Erickson: And so everybody knew both fans and creators and artists.
• 1:19:45
  Glen Erickson: Like, this is where we're gonna go and this is where it's gonna happen.
• 1:19:47
  Glen Erickson: And they didn't need all this stuff.
• 1:19:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: People don't realize that in like in, in 2004 on, on White Ave, for example, the, the black dog was literally all there was.
• 1:20:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's why that place became such an institution for how long?
• 1:20:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: For as long as it did, because it was like a cultural vacuum and it just, it just like, it just filled that void.
• 1:20:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and uh, that's what, that's, that's what punk rock in the, in the late seventies was, I think, I mean like you had such a, a small amount of, of bands doing what would eventually become, you know, considered to be alternative music in 1973.
• 1:20:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: There, there was just like, there was Bowie and that was it, kinda, I'm paraphrasing, but like,
• 1:20:35
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:20:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: why it, that was, it was such a huge groundswell because exactly what you said it was, it was like a lack of anything that creates.
• 1:20:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: That creates the, you know, the, the suction effect that, that fills, that, that void.
• 1:20:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's, I think that's what's happening now with independent music in ca in Canada especially.
• 1:20:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think that there's like a pretty, there's the beginnings of what you might be able to call a, a renaissance going on, in terms of independent music in, in Canada, because I think that, it's been so difficult to, to be truly independent in the last five years that, that people that do wanna see things done in a different, more positive, more joyous way are, are not like they're fed up, but they're not, I don't think they're fighting anything in the sense of taking to the streets.
• 1:21:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: They're just, they're just practicing things differently.
• 1:21:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like they're
• 1:21:27
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 1:21:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: they're just approaching the way that they bring their art to people in a more, in a more positive artist first way.
• 1:21:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:21:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: is, which is really exciting.
• 1:21:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: As
• 1:21:41
  Glen Erickson: I agree.
• 1:21:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: for someone who's I like, who's kind of seen it like vanish and go ex what I thought would kind of go extinct.
• 1:21:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: And it was kind of this really hopeless feeling from 2001 to,
• 1:21:53
  Glen Erickson: Well, because we thought there was only one way.
• 1:21:55
  Glen Erickson: So
• 1:21:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: Exactly.
• 1:21:58
  Glen Erickson: it's gonna go extinct, right?
• 1:22:00
  Glen Erickson: Like
• 1:22:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: just, and it, and it's, that's, it's crazy because as long as there will be, as long as there's a, there's a a, a drum and a person to hit it, there's gonna be
• 1:22:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:22:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: punk rock.
• 1:22:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like it doesn't have to be anything more than like a, like a, this it, it can be kind of weirdly like, neolithic in this, in this weird way.
• 1:22:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's, that like, I get a lot of comfort in that because, I mean I, like, I stopped playing with a full band a couple years ago because it just got straight up unaffordable to, to bring anybody.
• 1:22:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, like, I
• 1:22:31
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:22:32
  Glen Erickson: I've heard that from a lot of people that I talk to now.
• 1:22:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: I haven't played electric guitar.
• 1:22:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: On a regular basis in a really long time, since probably 2022, 2023.
• 1:22:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so now more than ever there's like this sort of like stone age quality to what I'm doing.
• 1:22:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: Because no matter what happens, like if the, you know, if the, the promoter stops answering my emails or if the venue closes, or if blah, blah, blah, you know, I'm still holding in my hands, like the only true, the only tool I, I truly need.
• 1:23:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: more than ever that's become a, an asset I think.
• 1:23:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:23:15
  Glen Erickson: I, as a little aside there, like this is my fascination right now at this like, stage of observing, and I'm not a music historian, I'm just a music observer.
• 1:23:25
  Glen Erickson: And I remember what I remember, I think.
• 1:23:27
  Glen Erickson: But just the fact that whatever got created from anybody, right, that we've been able to have the privilege to like, like hear or absorb the amount of layers that influenced what made that get created are fascinating to me.
• 1:23:49
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:23:50
  Glen Erickson: Like for you just saying that the necessity of the times and what happened in the world and now the financial situations and.
• 1:23:59
  Glen Erickson: You spend more time on your acoustic, but then now that starts to shape what you create, right?
• 1:24:05
  Glen Erickson: So,
• 1:24:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: Absolutely.
• 1:24:06
  Glen Erickson: these, so it's, it's your own set of choices that's gonna influence, and this is for everybody who's making music or creating art.
• 1:24:13
  Glen Erickson: Your own set of circumstances are influencing what you create, which becomes this identity, but that is also being influenced by your environment, by your political atmosphere,
• 1:24:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: here's, here's the.
• 1:24:29
  Glen Erickson: So like, we're actually so powerless to this thing that we're making our all encompassing identity
• 1:24:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well, we we're like, so the, the, the band that I probably look to more than any other band, insofar as like how they did what they did and their approach to what they did like, uh, is, is the Minutemen.
• 1:24:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, the Minute Men famously had this kind of slogan where they said that they jam, they we jam Econo.
• 1:24:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that was the name of a movie about the Minute Men too.
• 1:25:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: But Econo, uh, became this kind of term for, you know, just the, the complete like punk approach, you know.
• 1:25:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: And the minute men famously would, would, uh, save money on recording time by recording overnight.
• 1:25:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: And they, uh, they saved money on, on recording costs by using recycled tape and.
• 1:25:23
  Eamon Mcgrath: sometimes they would buy a ru, a reel of recycled tape and find out that they only had 12 minutes instead of 15 to work with.
• 1:25:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: So they, uh, so the story goes, would, would play all their songs live off the floor twice as fast, just to fit them less, in, less time on the real.
• 1:25:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that to me is like the most amazing thing.
• 1:25:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like where the, the philosophy and the circumstances that the artists as people are sort of inhabiting actually directly impact the creation of the art itself.
• 1:26:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: And on a grand scale, I think that that is what's happening now.
• 1:26:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, I think that that, COVID was so hard for musicians and, and coming out of it was so hard.
• 1:26:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, for me, the, the, uh, like I think now about.
• 1:26:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: All the, the, the, the, the masochistic amount of touring that I did when everything opened up again, because I had it, I, like, I hadn't done it in so long, you know, and I, I convinced myself that, you know, like the minute I can tour again, I'm gonna tour harder than ever before.
• 1:26:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: you know, so you had this kind of self-imposed pressure put on yourself to go out and like gain all this time.
• 1:26:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: You lost back.
• 1:26:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: But then also having to do that in this environment where like no one knew at all what they were in store for.
• 1:26:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, it was a new world and we hadn't even gone out and explored it yet.
• 1:26:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: So it was really hard and it required some pretty tough decisions, you know, and in my case, it was like I'd been touring solo for so long that I had the luxury of being able to just go and play hundreds of shows for as cheaply as possible.
• 1:27:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: But for a lot of bands it was a death sentence and.
• 1:27:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: So now you're seeing, um, the, the, you're only now seeing the kind of like the first stages of the, of the, of the shock, the shockwave of like looking
• 1:27:26
  Glen Erickson: the new version is
• 1:27:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: seeing, seeing who's left.
• 1:27:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah, like the, the, the bomb fell, so to speak.
• 1:27:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and, now everybody's kind of coming out of the dust and seeing how it all looks.
• 1:27:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, like we just, we just did a pink, a pink mountaintops show here, and Steve McBean was in like, you know, the, the ultimate, you know, mid two thousands Canadian indie rock behemoths, supergroup.
• 1:27:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: And it was so trippy watching him play like a, a solo show that could fit in the, in a, in a hatchback.
• 1:27:58
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I was like, this is where we are now.
• 1:28:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: Where, where the people that are the true lifers, again, what we were just talking about, like, you know, whereas you cutting, cutting costs and jamming a con.
• 1:28:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: Used to be this like aesthetic.
• 1:28:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well now it's not an aesthetic, it's just this is just how you gotta do it.
• 1:28:17
  Glen Erickson: actually gonna be the medium itself.
• 1:28:18
  Glen Erickson: I mean, there's this.
• 1:28:20
  Glen Erickson: I, there's this great Brian Eno quote that I never remember fluently, unfortunately, but he basically talks about how we end up creating a medium out of these things that were just like, what we're talking about, just the necessity that, and we, and they become the beautiful art themself.
• 1:28:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: exactly.
• 1:28:39
  Glen Erickson: we go back, we, we try to recreate, now we're trying to recreate tape hiss
• 1:28:45
  Eamon Mcgrath: Exactly.
• 1:28:45
  Glen Erickson: appreciate the beauty of what was a broken part of the art form or, or the Guitar Amp when all you had was a guitar and a tube.
• 1:28:55
  Eamon Mcgrath: Mm-hmm.
• 1:28:55
  Glen Erickson: And if I just play it at 10 and leave it, if I leave, it turned on.
• 1:29:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:29:00
  Glen Erickson: If I leave it turned on for three hours, that tube's gonna get so hot.
• 1:29:04
  Glen Erickson: And then if I play all my volume knobs at 10, it's gonna break up.
• 1:29:08
  Glen Erickson: And I find beauty in that sound.
• 1:29:10
  Glen Erickson: Well, it became a medium.
• 1:29:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: Became and it became something replicated.
• 1:29:13
  Glen Erickson: Uh, yeah, we end up trying to replicate it over and over and, and I find it interesting because now we're like, we're alluding to just, you know, the business and just the, the way we actually put ourselves out there and start to do all the things that we thought we knew how to do.
• 1:29:30
  Glen Erickson: You know, it's, we're still, I guess I hadn't really thought through that.
• 1:29:34
  Glen Erickson: It's, we're still a little too close to the bomb dropping of the pandemic.
• 1:29:39
  Glen Erickson: Like it's gonna take some more years to see what the new industry looks
• 1:29:45
  Eamon Mcgrath: or, or if we're a part of, you know, like there's some movement in Canadian indie rock where it'll become a genre someday.
• 1:29:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: We have no idea.
• 1:29:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: and, and yeah, you're, you're absolutely right.
• 1:29:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I, I, uh, I think more and more, as well, like Sheila and I talk about this all the time, but we like, as we.
• 1:30:05
  Eamon Mcgrath: We do more and more shows for bands, and we make more and more records for other people, and we're more and more involved in our, immediate community, our immediate music community.
• 1:30:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: There's, there's more and more people that feel the same way we do, and there's more and more people that are just like exhausted with trying to dismantle it all.
• 1:30:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I think people just really want to feel those moments that we're talking about.
• 1:30:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I ultimately, I'm, I'm, I'm really inspired by the fact that more so than ever, all the toxic administrative industry bullshit seems to matter less and less to people who realize that all they want to be able to do is sustain their ability to create music.
• 1:30:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's so liberating.
• 1:30:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I mean, in, in this weird way, it's sort of the moment I've been always waiting for.
• 1:30:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: so I'm, I'm ex I'm excited because.
• 1:31:01
  Glen Erickson: alluded to this a few times then about where you are now.
• 1:31:04
  Glen Erickson: So I'm really curious if you can describe a little more how you feel about your career right now and what you think it's gonna look like over the next few years.
• 1:31:16
  Glen Erickson: Like what, like what kind of music are you creating or you feel like you're being, like, what's starting to come out?
• 1:31:24
  Glen Erickson: Like what has shifted?
• 1:31:26
  Glen Erickson: Like what, what do you feel has changed for you and what
• 1:31:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: am, what's the biggest thing is just taking the, the, the, uh, take removing, removing from my life.
• 1:31:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: The, the like the, the, the, the urgency and like the, the feeling of like always needing to be, to be, uh,
• 1:31:45
  Glen Erickson: The hamster wheel of,
• 1:31:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah.
• 1:31:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 1:31:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: Because I think that, I think that what was a lot of it was, was like a DIY ethos and stuff, but a lot of it was just this sort of compulsive behavior.
• 1:31:58
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and a way of sort of looking in a, in a mirror because it was something that I've just been so accustomed to doing.
• 1:32:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, like, I learned, you know, like I played my first show when I was 11, did my first tour when I was 17.
• 1:32:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's, it's become such a, a part of who I am.
• 1:32:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: that it was, I, I just don't know what, I don't know what drew me to doing it the way that I did it for so long.
• 1:32:22
  Eamon Mcgrath: And now I think that I'm more content with not having any answer at all.
• 1:32:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: I think that, that I, I, I, I'm just operating from a place of just satisfaction.
• 1:32:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm trying to just like learn to, acknowledge and, and just take count of what I've got already.
• 1:32:45
  Eamon Mcgrath: and I mean, that has been the, like, the result of that has been, you know, like.
• 1:32:51
  Eamon Mcgrath: I write way less songs, but I just don't care because the songs that I do write when I wanna write them are better.
• 1:32:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: so I don't know.
• 1:33:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I think that I'm just more interested in, in, in, in, in really having, uh, like really having a better knowledge and grasp on what it is that I truly want.
• 1:33:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: Because we are, we are conditioned to thinking that, like, you know, that we want to, you know, get on a big direct support slot and play to 750 people a night.
• 1:33:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, but then you, you go and you do that a few times and you realize that maybe only, only 20 people in the crowd are really paying attention to you.
• 1:33:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, how, how is that the goal?
• 1:33:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: And
• 1:33:33
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 1:33:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: just not, there's not just like, there's not one path.
• 1:33:37
  Eamon Mcgrath: There's a, there's a multitude of them and, and like, just, just like, there's a multitude of, of people and, So, I don't know.
• 1:33:46
  Eamon Mcgrath: I guess that I'm just trying to like, just be more relaxed about it all and, and, uh, I mean, it's not easy because we've all gotta eat.
• 1:33:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: But, but, um,
• 1:33:56
  Glen Erickson: Well, I was gonna ask you about that because you show you're showing a lot of optimism, which I am feeling very inspired by.
• 1:34:04
  Glen Erickson: 'cause people who have been doing it for 20 years have all of the, uh, material in front of them that they would need to be jaded, which is what I feel the majority of
• 1:34:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, I, Hey, don't, don't get me wrong.
• 1:34:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: I there's some, there's some jade,
• 1:34:20
  Glen Erickson: I believe it.
• 1:34:21
  Glen Erickson: But what I'm saying is you're choosing optimism when I ask you a question in the way you answer,
• 1:34:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm just so sick of, of caring about things that I just, at the end of the day don't care about.
• 1:34:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I don't care about TikTok, I don't care about Spotify.
• 1:34:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: I don't, I don't, I just don't care.
• 1:34:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I don't want to care.
• 1:34:40
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I think that like.
• 1:34:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: Indifference is such a powerful weapon in, and, and like, that's my goal.
• 1:34:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I just like, I don't have a booking agent.
• 1:34:52
  Eamon Mcgrath: I don't want a booking agent.
• 1:34:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: I don't want to want a booking agent.
• 1:34:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm perfectly happy booking my own shows and not because I'm waving some black flag, but because it's a system that's worked for me and I'm okay with
• 1:35:05
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:35:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, I don't think that there needs to be any, anything that's more scrutinized there.
• 1:35:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so, yeah, to answer your question, and I'm again no expert, I'm just saying that like, I think that if, if I can achieve that, um, and it works for me, then maybe it'll work for, for someone else.
• 1:35:23
  Glen Erickson: I am curious if you, and I'm not even sure how to ask the question, but I feel like you're maybe the most interesting, qualified person to give a good answer about it.
• 1:35:34
  Glen Erickson: But when you've been playing for 20 years, even if you've, you know, had the portions of your career where you get signed to a bigger label, as fleeting as that is, or these things that we think establish success and stability in this sort of chasing the dream, even those people I've talked to really that still didn't create a world of, they don't have RSPs, they, you know, they don't have a retirement plan, they don't have all these.
• 1:36:05
  Glen Erickson: Paychecks to show the government, you know, for their, you know, to that they should qualify for things like that over time starts to seep in like a little fearfully for people.
• 1:36:19
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well, even so.
• 1:36:20
  Glen Erickson: what Dr.
• 1:36:21
  Glen Erickson: That's what drags people out.
• 1:36:22
  Glen Erickson: Like what you see most, what I see most of the time EEamon.
• 1:36:25
  Glen Erickson: Is they stop trying to make music and they start becoming a promoter, or they, you know what I mean?
• 1:36:31
  Glen Erickson: Or they end up falling into the industry because, uh, they didn't go to school, but they learned obviously a trade along the way.
• 1:36:41
  Glen Erickson: And so they're, they're doing something in the business.
• 1:36:44
  Glen Erickson: and I'm just wondering, I guess, honestly, I'm just asking you because like, you're still, you're 20 years in, you're still moving forward, you're still making, but you're doing, you're contributing back, but you're holding to this very clear idea of where you're gonna fit.
• 1:37:00
  Glen Erickson: In the business and, and your own ethic and beliefs.
• 1:37:04
  Glen Erickson: and I'm wondering how you wrestle with, uh, how am I gonna keep, you know,
• 1:37:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well, well, yeah.
• 1:37:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: So, so all, all of those reasons are, are better reasons than any to, to make sure that you're doing this in a way that doesn't destroy you emotionally, physically, spiritually, whatever.
• 1:37:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: Because is, this is all I've got and I'm, I am gonna be doing it in some capacity till I die.
• 1:37:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I, I have, you know, told myself I'm gonna quit.
• 1:37:33
  Eamon Mcgrath: I can't even.
• 1:37:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: count how many times over, and my, my girlfriend and partner Sheila, has talked me off the ledge more times than I would probably care to admit, and somehow I always come back to it.
• 1:37:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: So, so, yeah, like, like now's the time to figure out how to do it in a way that doesn't make you miserable.
• 1:37:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: Because, because yeah.
• 1:37:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, like, I, I have to be able to play music for people and get compensated for it.
• 1:38:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, if like, it completely all truly 100% falls apart, you know, like
• 1:38:12
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:38:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: if, if like the atomic bomb drops, I gotta be able to pick up an acoustic guitar and play a song for somebody.
• 1:38:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: so now more than ever, I think people, and I'm not the only one that probably feels that way, but like now more than ever, I think that, you know, like, You gotta figure out how to make your show happen without the, the, the lighting, Rick, you know, and do it in the most honest, minimalistic, primitive way possible, because we don't know what's gonna happen.
• 1:38:40
  Eamon Mcgrath: technology is terrifying and we live in an unpredictable world.
• 1:38:46
  Eamon Mcgrath: Most of us, on an individual level are totally powerless to change it.
• 1:38:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: So the only thing we can do is try to, is try to, you know, just be, be at peace with, with ourselves, I think.
• 1:38:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: And why, and why we're doing something.
• 1:38:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: So,
• 1:39:00
  Glen Erickson: That's awesome.
• 1:39:01
  Eamon Mcgrath: so, yeah, that's, that's my answer for, that's like, I, I think that it's something that I'm, I'm probably gonna, in some capacity always be doing.
• 1:39:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: so, you know, I better, I better figure out soon how to do it in a way that doesn't kill me,
• 1:39:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:39:18
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, I mean, we've talked for over an hour and a half and it feels like it's been just blowing by, and this has been amazing for
• 1:39:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah, this was, this was a good one.
• 1:39:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: Thanks for doing this.
• 1:39:29
  Glen Erickson: I love your perspective on things and the way that everything, I just, there's a lot of weight behind everything you say because of your experiences and that, you know, you wear those experiences on your sleeve too.
• 1:39:43
  Glen Erickson: It makes me think of how I, my last conversation was with an artist Tara Lightfoot, and, um, she quoted, you know, a well-known phrase about, you know, you meet the same people going up the mountain as you do coming down.
• 1:39:58
  Eamon Mcgrath: Coming down.
• 1:39:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 1:40:00
  Glen Erickson: for being kind, because in a greater perspective of life.
• 1:40:04
  Glen Erickson: Um, but she got that advice from Daniel Lanois when she was young,
• 1:40:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: Mm-hmm.
• 1:40:08
  Glen Erickson: and I was like, yeah,
• 1:40:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: Tara's a great person to, to talk to about this stuff
• 1:40:13
  Glen Erickson: And if,
• 1:40:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: she's a lifer too.
• 1:40:15
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I mean, she'll be.
• 1:40:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: Playing music for people, no matter whether there's a light bulb or or not, you know?
• 1:40:22
  Glen Erickson: And if, and if Daniel Lanois tells me that one now, it's not just a colloquialism anymore, now it's something I'm gonna live by.
• 1:40:29
  Glen Erickson: And, and I feel like I, I just feel like hearing your perspective on some of these things and the way that you've framed it is.
• 1:40:38
  Glen Erickson: Really meaningful.
• 1:40:39
  Glen Erickson: I know it's meaningful for me.
• 1:40:40
  Glen Erickson: I hope it's really meaningful to other people because, uh, it, you've just so convincingly lived it.
• 1:40:47
  Glen Erickson: so I appreciate all that.
• 1:40:48
  Glen Erickson: I do wanna ask you one thing before we wrap things up though,'cause we've talked a long time.
• 1:40:54
  Glen Erickson: Is, on the tail end of like, where you are right now, which is, I really want to find out, I wanna know about you're putting on shows for people.
• 1:41:02
  Glen Erickson: You've talked about what you see as a new revolution and these new things, and you seeing people have these moments in these new venues and places.
• 1:41:12
  Glen Erickson: Uh, is there any like, that are fresh to mind?
• 1:41:15
  Glen Erickson: Like, uh, an artist or a band or somebody you're like, this is somebody I've seen who's doing it this way and I'm inspired by right now?
• 1:41:22
  Glen Erickson: I'm always curious to hear from somebody
• 1:41:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: Oh yeah.
• 1:41:26
  Glen Erickson: they've seen and, and, and what they're being inspired by right now.
• 1:41:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: yeah, I mean, in the last month, uh, you know, we, uh, I I, I opened for Juliana Reino two nights ago.
• 1:41:39
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, we did, she, she, Sheila and I, the cassettes records put on a a by Divine Right Show,
• 1:41:46
  Glen Erickson: I saw her at Folk Fest this year too.
• 1:41:48
  Glen Erickson: She was
• 1:41:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, she's, she's jaw dropping and her band is, uh, a force of nature.
• 1:41:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so, but so is BDR, I mean, ine, right, is like.
• 1:41:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: The, they, I, it's like, I look to a band like that and they've, they've like run the gamut of the, you know, the rollercoaster of everything we're talking about today.
• 1:42:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, they've, they've done that 20 times over.
• 1:42:12
  Eamon Mcgrath: Um, and they're still like, they're still monumental.
• 1:42:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, that band is so good.
• 1:42:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: you know, and then like we, recorded this band called Humble John.
• 1:42:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: This, this Windsor band.
• 1:42:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: It's like a really great country band.
• 1:42:28
  Eamon Mcgrath: Uh, a couple weeks ago.
• 1:42:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, within five weeks there, there's, those were like three really great, um, in in-person examples of, of, of how, you know, rock and roll is not dead.
• 1:42:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: it's just the, the, the, the means by which it's gotta get brought to people is, is different.
• 1:42:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's it.
• 1:42:49
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:42:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: And,
• 1:42:50
  Glen Erickson: I love that.
• 1:42:52
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm really happy about that.
• 1:42:53
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, like.
• 1:42:54
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, I think that like popular mainstream culture is just in a, in the toilet pool.
• 1:42:59
  Eamon Mcgrath: I just don't have any, so I don't, just don't understand it anymore and I just, I don't care to because, um, the things that I've been a part of and I've seen firsthand are really inspiring.
• 1:43:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I think that people are, are like thirsty for something real.
• 1:43:18
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and more and more bands are gonna figure out how to, how to do it affordably and not, and not, uh, have to, you know, submit to a machine that rips them off.
• 1:43:29
  Eamon Mcgrath: 'cause ultimately that's what it comes down to is keeping your costs as low as possible so that, um, you know, any revenue you're generating is, is significant.
• 1:43:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: And if you can do that and you can just keep the wheels turning, you will hit this tipping point where you will, you will find an audience of some kind and, and hopefully.
• 1:43:52
  Eamon Mcgrath: Bring those moments that we're talking about to pe to people.
• 1:43:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: 'cause that's the only mission in my
• 1:43:58
  Glen Erickson: That's awesome.
• 1:43:59
  Glen Erickson: Um, yeah, you talked about slowing down from your ridiculous road warrior days, but you do have some shows coming up, which I just wanna call out for people who are listening because we're, we're, you're in, uh, you're an Edmonton raised boy.
• 1:44:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:44:18
  Glen Erickson: And you're gonna be in Edmonton on,
• 1:44:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: time of recording.
• 1:44:22
  Glen Erickson: is that the 18th
• 1:44:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 1:44:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm in, in Edmonton on de December 18th, Saskatoon on December 19th, and then at the tail end of February.
• 1:44:31
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah, the new year.
• 1:44:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: We, we have some Ontario and
• 1:44:33
  Glen Erickson: you run through Ontario, which is always fun.
• 1:44:36
  Glen Erickson: Um.
• 1:44:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: and, and, and this is something that I used to do, you know.
• 1:44:40
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I was back and forth Alberta and Ontario, you know, five, five times a year.
• 1:44:45
  Eamon Mcgrath: But, like I haven't been to the prairies in probably two and a half years.
• 1:44:50
  Eamon Mcgrath: Um, I ha I haven't, I th I, I think, don't quote me on that, but it's been a long time and I haven't actually done a proper Ontario tour, uh, in, in a long time either.
• 1:45:02
  Eamon Mcgrath: It feels like it's been at least, at least 18 months.
• 1:45:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: So, um, so yeah, for me this is, this is like a long time away.
• 1:45:09
  Eamon Mcgrath: I'm still touring, um, and playing songs off of the record that we put out in 2023.
• 1:45:17
  Eamon Mcgrath: A dizzying lust like that is still fresh in my mind.
• 1:45:20
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, um, like we were saying earlier, I just don't care about the concept of the album cycle anymore, so I'm just going to tour and put out music when I feel like it,'cause it makes me happy.
• 1:45:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: And that's what I, that's what I'm doing.
• 1:45:35
  Glen Erickson: Awesome.
• 1:45:35
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean.
• 1:45:37
  Glen Erickson: I just know'cause you're obviously so, like I alluded to earlier, well known in Edmonton, and anytime I have an Edmonton legend on the show, uh, I can see the soul sucking part of this.
• 1:45:49
  Glen Erickson: The analytics of my podcast tell me that the numbers go up, but the numbers go up when I have an Edmonton legend on.
• 1:45:56
  Glen Erickson: Um,
• 1:45:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: here's, here's hoping,
• 1:45:59
  Glen Erickson: so, well,
• 1:46:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: you what the
• 1:46:00
  Glen Erickson: sorry, I I say that'cause I don't give a shit about the analytics.
• 1:46:04
  Glen Erickson: What I know
• 1:46:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: not, the irony
• 1:46:05
  Glen Erickson: of people are gonna listen.
• 1:46:07
  Glen Erickson: So what I'm saying is 18th, which will be a week after this gets broadcast
• 1:46:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: at, at Bent
• 1:46:15
  Glen Erickson: Bent Stick Brewing, and I hope to see everybody who's told me that they love Eamon.
• 1:46:21
  Eamon Mcgrath: Better you there.
• 1:46:23
  Glen Erickson: face at Bent Stick
• 1:46:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: well, I hope so.
• 1:46:25
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I, and, and, uh, a huge thanks to, to, uh, Craig Martel, a double lunch, a very old friend
• 1:46:32
  Glen Erickson: Oh yeah.
• 1:46:32
  Glen Erickson: Great.
• 1:46:32
  Glen Erickson: Craig's been a great promoter in the
• 1:46:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: promoting this show for me.
• 1:46:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: And same with Saskatoon.
• 1:46:36
  Eamon Mcgrath: I haven't been out to Saskatoon in a, in a while, so it'll be great to, to see some old faces.
• 1:46:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 1:46:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: and I, I mean, just and quickly to talk about the, on the subject of being from Edmonton, I think that that, uh, being from that place really had a profound impact on who I turned out to be because, um, it's funny how you, uh, you talk about analytics and all these things that just didn't even have any semblance of a, of a, like, there was no semblance of mattering at all when I started playing music.
• 1:47:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: And in Edmonton, actually, the thing about, about being from there and going back and seeing bands from Edmonton now, the thing about Edmonton that was so great was, was like that, just the, this kind of, what I used to think was maybe an inferiority complex, like just this belief that your community would always be ignored.
• 1:47:26
  Eamon Mcgrath: There was no hope of ever making it.
• 1:47:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: And you'd never have a career playing music'cause you were so out of, out, out in the boonies and touring was so expensive and blah, blah blah.
• 1:47:35
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so I'm just really fortunate to be from a community that, that sort of looked at like, uh, what was maybe a perceived lack of opportunity and just saying, well, fuck it.
• 1:47:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: We're never gonna be successful anyway, so we might as well just create the most honest, sincere, badass art we can.
• 1:47:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: And then having the irony of that be that it ended up being that all these amazing artists came from that era of Edmonton that I was really fortunate enough to be a
• 1:48:06
  Glen Erickson: I agree.
• 1:48:07
  Eamon Mcgrath: is fascinating to me.
• 1:48:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: How like, this, this, like this perceived lack of success ended up creating art that was so wide reaching that like a lot of people ended up being really successful.
• 1:48:17
  Glen Erickson: timeless and reached across a lot of time and it has sort of endured.
• 1:48:21
  Glen Erickson: I love that you say that and feel the same way because one thing that has always stuck in my mind is, I'll never forget, it was our first tour through Ontario and I had done all the work to basically set up interviews at every college radio station along the way when we were in the band.
• 1:48:39
  Glen Erickson: And so this would've been maybe 2007 or oh eight seven.
• 1:48:43
  Glen Erickson: and I kept getting asked the same question.
• 1:48:45
  Glen Erickson: Everybody wanted to know, like,'cause nobody out east, they were like, what's the scene like in Edmonton?
• 1:48:49
  Glen Erickson: We have no idea what's Edmonton like?
• 1:48:52
  Glen Erickson: And I don't know why'cause I hadn't given it any thought.
• 1:48:55
  Glen Erickson: But I started, I started describing, I said, they were like, what's the scene like?
• 1:49:00
  Glen Erickson: I'm like, I love Edmonton so much because.
• 1:49:05
  Glen Erickson: For lack of a better term, our blue collar ethic means that we don't give a shit what anybody thinks about us.
• 1:49:12
  Glen Erickson: And I felt like, and I didn't want to call out other cities, but I'm like, it felt like at the time, like Calgary really wanted to be Vancouver and Vancouver really wanted to be Toronto.
• 1:49:22
  Glen Erickson: And I felt like these scenes, the way that people I was meeting were what they were aspiring to be was always something other than who they were.
• 1:49:33
  Glen Erickson: And everybody I knew in Edmonton, all I felt about Edmonton was, if you come here, you can be whatever you want to be
• 1:49:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 1:49:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like in,
• 1:49:42
  Glen Erickson: find a place.
• 1:49:43
  Eamon Mcgrath: in Toronto.
• 1:49:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: I mean, I remember when I, when I moved, it was like, I remember, you know, I, I moved, when I moved there, it was like every single show I did, it was like I had five names on the guest list that were, you know, industry people.
• 1:49:56
  Eamon Mcgrath: And
• 1:49:57
  Glen Erickson: Oh yeah.
• 1:49:57
  Eamon Mcgrath: that was never even a thing that would've ever, ever happened in Edmonton at a hall show or like, it was like, it just never occurred to me that that was, that like, that, that like happened in the music industry.
• 1:50:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like I
• 1:50:10
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:50:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: thought you went and played shows and that was it.
• 1:50:13
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 1:50:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: Because of that, I never made any decisions based on who was maybe in the, the crowd other than people that bought a ticket to be there.
• 1:50:24
  Glen Erickson: yeah,
• 1:50:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: And I, and it was really liberating.
• 1:50:27
  Eamon Mcgrath: And look at the, look at all the bands from em, like whether it's, you know, it doesn't matter what kind of genre it is, it's, it's like, it's always had this, this history of making really, really badass music no matter what kind of music it is.
• 1:50:42
  Glen Erickson: I agree.
• 1:50:43
  Glen Erickson: I'm really proud of our town and I don't mind, mean, there's a part of me that feels like, oh, don't make your whole podcast a homer, uh,
• 1:50:51
  Eamon Mcgrath: no, no, of course
• 1:50:52
  Glen Erickson: can't help it.
• 1:50:53
  Glen Erickson: What I'm saying is I can't help it.
• 1:50:55
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well, and now for me as a, and as, as a Windsor, I talk about like kind of getting older and understanding life a bit more or trying to, I like, I love Windsor and I love living here.
• 1:51:06
  Eamon Mcgrath: And one of the reasons why I love it so much is because it reminds me so much of what Edmonton was like when I was young.
• 1:51:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like Windsor now to me is like, that is like that, that super creative environment that Edmonton was in the mid two thousands where, you have a highly intellectualized working class population, Edmonton because of the, the U of A and in in Windsor.
• 1:51:30
  Eamon Mcgrath: In Windsor we have the university.
• 1:51:32
  Eamon Mcgrath: Um, um,
• 1:51:33
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 1:51:34
  Eamon Mcgrath: Sheila, Sheila always laughs because, uh, Canadian music in some ways sort of passed over the community here because nobody listened to the CBC.
• 1:51:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: They listen to wd ET and Detroit.
• 1:51:47
  Glen Erickson: Across the river.
• 1:51:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah.
• 1:51:48
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and WinDor rights, like lifelong WinDor rights.
• 1:51:51
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like when I talk to them about the temperature in Celsius, they have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about, um, to this, to this day.
• 1:51:58
  Eamon Mcgrath: But, uh, so like working class auto town, but like highly intellectualized because of the fact that the Temptations were a local band.
• 1:52:08
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and you had the, the university here.
• 1:52:11
  Eamon Mcgrath: And so, Edmonton was the same.
• 1:52:14
  Eamon Mcgrath: Growing up was like, it was just this really tough working class city that had like a real appreciation for, for high art.
• 1:52:24
  Eamon Mcgrath: And, and so just like Windsor, you know, the, the people that were creating that high art approached it the way they would on an, on an oil patch, you know, or at an, on an auto plant, like with, with just like, I gotta feed my kids.
• 1:52:41
  Eamon Mcgrath: You know, like it's cold outside, we gotta pack for the winter.
• 1:52:44
  Eamon Mcgrath: Like, so I've, I've kind of come full circle in this weird way and in a lot of the bands I see, here as an outsider, um, I see the same kind of spirit and energy and that has been like, so inspiring.
• 1:52:58
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:52:58
  Glen Erickson: That's awesome.
• 1:53:00
  Eamon Mcgrath: so
• 1:53:00
  Glen Erickson: Well, this has been an absolute treat for me, man.
• 1:53:02
  Glen Erickson: Thank you so
• 1:53:03
  Eamon Mcgrath: Yeah, you too.
• 1:53:04
  Eamon Mcgrath: Thank, I'm glad this worked out.
• 1:53:05
  Eamon Mcgrath: I, uh, and I wasn't sure about timing, but it sounds like it was meant to be.
• 1:53:10
  Eamon Mcgrath: So I really appreciate you, uh,
• 1:53:12
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I think it was totally
• 1:53:13
  Eamon Mcgrath: me on the show and thanks for all the kind words.
• 1:53:16
  Eamon Mcgrath: That's nice to hear.
• 1:53:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, well, I mean them all, man.
• 1:53:19
  Glen Erickson: So, um, you're highly appreciated, even as much as respected.
• 1:53:24
  Glen Erickson: and I think, um, I appreciate the influence that you.
• 1:53:28
  Glen Erickson: In this community and continue to, and I'm looking forward to you coming back to town and, and,
• 1:53:33
  Eamon Mcgrath: can't wait.
• 1:53:34
  Glen Erickson: just really grateful for the time and the conversation we had.
• 1:53:37
  Glen Erickson: So I just
• 1:53:38
  Eamon Mcgrath: You too.
• 1:53:38
  Glen Erickson: best and hope the will actually
• 1:53:42
  Eamon Mcgrath: Cross paths.
• 1:53:43
  Glen Erickson: into each other next time.
• 1:53:45
  Glen Erickson: That'd be great.
• 1:53:46
  Eamon Mcgrath: okay, great.
• 1:53:47
  Eamon Mcgrath: Well thanks so much.
• 1:53:48
  Glen Erickson: You bet, bud.
• 1:53:49
  Glen Erickson: Thank
• 1:53:49
  Eamon Mcgrath: Talk to you soon, Glen.
• 1:53:58
  doesn't matter.
• 1:53:59
  We're good to go.
• 1:54:00
  Did you start it?
• 1:54:01
  Yeah, I started it.
• 1:54:01
  Okay.
• 1:54:02
  Cut that.
• 1:54:02
  You didn't know that I started it.
• 1:54:03
  Cut that first bit out.
• 1:54:04
  Okay.
• 1:54:05
  Like you singing?
• 1:54:06
  Yeah.
• 1:54:06
  What if I don't cut it out?
• 1:54:08
  Uh, you'll never have posting ever again.
• 1:54:09
  That's not, you can't threaten me.
• 1:54:11
  Just, just did.
• 1:54:13
  Well, you shouldn't threaten me.
• 1:54:14
  Oh, is the catch.
• 1:54:16
  Okay.
• 1:54:16
  this is episode, episode 32, 2, which means.
• 1:54:21
  The last one of the season.
• 1:54:23
  Yeah.
• 1:54:23
  Season ender.
• 1:54:25
  which, you know, there were times when I was like, wow.
• 1:54:27
  And then other times I was like, oh, come on.
• 1:54:30
  Does that make sense?
• 1:54:31
  Yeah.
• 1:54:31
  That's me this semester.
• 1:54:33
  Okay.
• 1:54:34
  so if you're low energy today, it's Why are we calling you out?
• 1:54:38
  Because I'm calling you out.
• 1:54:39
  Okay.
• 1:54:39
  It's because you're in the middle of finals.
• 1:54:41
  But we've kind of had like, I feel like we've had scholastic excuses.
• 1:54:46
  All the way through post family.
• 1:54:48
  I'm a dedicated student.
• 1:54:49
  The last number of months?
• 1:54:50
  No.
• 1:54:51
  We had one where I was having a bunch of midterms.
• 1:54:54
  Yeah, I mean, generally you're having a good time still, but I'm just saying it just seems like familiar.
• 1:54:59
  It just feels familiar.
• 1:55:01
  This semester's a rough one.
• 1:55:02
  It's okay.
• 1:55:03
  It's completely okay.
• 1:55:05
  Um, so episode 32, Amy McGrath.
• 1:55:08
  Yeah.
• 1:55:09
  Uh, Edmonton Expat.
• 1:55:11
  And, um, it felt like, uh, for me, when.
• 1:55:16
  Yeah.
• 1:55:17
  When that whole conversation started, it was sort of like a no brainer to me in trying to get it to be the last episode of the season.
• 1:55:27
  It felt like a bookend to, uh, Peter Dreams, who was like near the beginning.
• 1:55:31
  Right.
• 1:55:32
  Yeah.
• 1:55:32
  And, and Amon and his family and everything was a part of that story that he was telling so much on his upbringing in Edmonton.
• 1:55:42
  So I was like, nice.
• 1:55:43
  Full circle.
• 1:55:43
  Yeah.
• 1:55:43
  I thought like.
• 1:55:45
  It'd be really interesting to sort of hear a Eamon's perspective, although it, although we actually didn't really talk about his time in Edmonton.
• 1:55:56
  Well, the conversation just kind of went straight to Toronto to where it went like very naturally.
• 1:55:59
  So, yeah, I told you that before he even listened, that we literally just started talking and hit the ground running and I, yeah, and I almost had no method for going back onto a timeline, which I often do, but.
• 1:56:13
  I think it's nice that way.
• 1:56:15
  Yeah.
• 1:56:15
  I don't think it was necessary.
• 1:56:16
  Right.
• 1:56:17
  Like sometimes I use that as a device for conversation and other times I actually want to, you know, try to draw an arc through someone's career with them.
• 1:56:27
  But yeah.
• 1:56:28
  But this was a little bit different.
• 1:56:29
  So a little more conversation, a little less view.
• 1:56:32
  Yeah.
• 1:56:32
  Yeah.
• 1:56:32
  And so it was just like right into it, which I really loved and a lot of things he touched on that.
• 1:56:41
  I could have just really bid on mm-hmm.
• 1:56:44
  All the way through.
• 1:56:45
  But, I didn't That's fair.
• 1:56:48
  Yeah.
• 1:56:49
  I mean, and there was, you know, there was, there was a time in the conversation the things that I would sort of, uh, wanted to reflect on after the interview about just the things about.
• 1:57:03
  He, he talked directly to the idea, again, of chasing the dream.
• 1:57:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:57:07
  And talked really, and I love it.
• 1:57:09
  And, and we had that a little bit with, uh, I think both the last two, like Tara both sort of like literally addressed it by themselves.
• 1:57:18
  It almost starts me thinking like, are they like practicing some of their information before?
• 1:57:26
  Are they also doing their own work thinking?
• 1:57:27
  Yeah.
• 1:57:27
  Like they're thinking, okay, this is this guy's podcast and I need to.
• 1:57:31
  Say something along those lines.
• 1:57:32
  So anyhow, he like his chase the dream was, how he framed and this is what I found interesting that he framed like he's almost 20 years in.
• 1:57:43
  He basically said like the first up till early pandemic probably so almost 15 years mm-hmm.
• 1:57:48
  Of his professional career.
• 1:57:49
  And obviously all the time before that, he was like still chasing.
• 1:57:54
  That dream, still trying to land like a big opening spot for like a headliner or tour or, or some version of a thing.
• 1:58:01
  And I guess from the outside it's, it felt surprising'cause I, it would seem to me that he had locked into this career mode, right?
• 1:58:10
  Yeah.
• 1:58:10
  Where he, he wasn't visibly, to me, when you've been doing it that long, it's like he's not still trying to chase and get the big fame Yeah.
• 1:58:19
  Thing at all.
• 1:58:20
  He's sort of gotten used to like, I can have a career out of just.
• 1:58:24
  Taking my guitar across to Europe and just playing every single night all over the place.
• 1:58:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:58:29
  And he makes those connections.
• 1:58:30
  And, I referenced a guy who's also from Edmonton, Scott Cook, who's very like folky guy.
• 1:58:36
  And he, he's like that he'll play like 300 times a year.
• 1:58:40
  He used to.
• 1:58:40
  Oh, wow.
• 1:58:41
  And, and he just has like this probably massive book of his contacts and he just keeps mining the same.
• 1:58:49
  Place and building like connections and fans in every little town and city.
• 1:58:54
  And that's his life, right?
• 1:58:55
  He's like a true, like the old traveling troubadour thing.
• 1:58:58
  I was gonna say, yeah.
• 1:58:58
  Thing, and I guess I thought in a punk rock kind of way that that's what Eamon was.
• 1:59:03
  But him just talking about, you know, like he's having to redefine success and what he's happy with.
• 1:59:12
  I was just gonna say that's, that was like, that was the one part of the episode.
• 1:59:17
  I like, there was a couple things he said where I was like, oh, that's really interesting.
• 1:59:21
  But like the one part that I picked out that I was like, oh, like if I'm, you know, gonna talk about one part of the episode, like it's gotta be, this is, there's one part where he literally just was like going on a tangent and he was just saying like, you know, if your Spotify has a thousand listen listeners or 10,000 or a hundred thousand, like who cares if you're playing to like a crowd of 300,000, 3000 or 300?
• 1:59:42
  Like who cares?
• 1:59:42
  And like he's just kind of going on a tangent about this and he's like.
• 1:59:46
  It's interesting'cause we've had other people on the show be like, you know, just do it.
• 1:59:51
  What makes you happy?
• 1:59:51
  Like, you know, there's a certain level you to be happy, but like, there's been those conversations, but I don't think anyone's been as blunt in like their honesty of just like, you know.
• 2:00:02
  Yeah.
• 2:00:02
  Like, actually who cares?
• 2:00:03
  Yeah.
• 2:00:03
  Like if you're someone who's like choosing to be in the industry for the, like the love of the industry and playing and stuff like it, like actually doesn't matter.
• 2:00:12
  And he is just so passionate about that.
• 2:00:13
  And I was like.
• 2:00:14
  I can get behind that.
• 2:00:15
  And this is where he, it tied the bow to me of like, this, the whole point of is he actually punk rock Almost Famous Enough too.
• 2:00:21
  Or, but that, yeah, but, and is he actually punk?
• 2:00:23
  Yeah.
• 2:00:24
  In the sense that the others sort of say it, but they sort of say it with a little, you know, like's word.
• 2:00:32
  It had to take a long time to get there.
• 2:00:34
  You know, it's the politics of like, they're still gonna say it in a friendly way.
• 2:00:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:00:38
  Or I'm just, I'm lacking the word I want, but.
• 2:00:42
  But his was just very much, I just don't care anymore.
• 2:00:44
  Yeah.
• 2:00:45
  Like I don't care about any of it.
• 2:00:46
  I don't care about all that stuff.
• 2:00:48
  Uh, he literally just doesn't care.
• 2:00:50
  And then I, that's when I pointed out, I'm like, yeah, you don't even have a website with your Yeah.
• 2:00:54
  Domain exactly like your anymore.
• 2:00:56
  Like that's how much he doesn't care actually care.
• 2:00:59
  And I guess that's the other thing to me.
• 2:01:02
  'cause I keep reflecting on what is punk rock and this idea of.
• 2:01:07
  The whole like, you know, people who actually would put their money where their mouth is kind of thing.
• 2:01:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:01:13
  Like, you know, he literally walks, you know, the talk all the time in what he does, which was pretty cool for that to just organically come up the way it did.
• 2:01:24
  And I guess I hope it felt to me like, like there was so many possible tangents.
• 2:01:33
  There was like little things we, I like.
• 2:01:35
  Just to the way a normal conversation happens where you want someone to articulate a little better what they said or you want to sort of, you have an idea that adds on, but then I almost start getting afraid even when that part of the conversation happened of like, if I add on it might take it in another direction and then we'll lose.
• 2:01:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:01:53
  All the stuff that's happening right here.
• 2:01:56
  And I didn't wanna lose any of it'cause I just thought he was going to be so refresh, uh, refreshingly.
• 2:02:03
  Candid about all this stuff, which he was, yeah, candid is a good word.
• 2:02:06
  I also feel like there's so many people, especially with like social media and all, like the online stuff these days, like even like very genuine people you've had on, like, you can still, there's like, there's still that obsession with like the numbers and like the statistics and like, and you know, in the good Yeah, in the true, good way though, I think what you're trying to say, I'm not saying it's a bad way, I'm just saying like there's, there's, but they have to, it's the business.
• 2:02:27
  That's what I'm saying.
• 2:02:28
  Yeah, but I'm saying like that's, it was kind of.
• 2:02:30
  Unique about him.
• 2:02:31
  Like that's what I think made that conversation like that other layer of interesting is like, he's like kind of unique.
• 2:02:39
  He's a little rarity.
• 2:02:40
  Yeah.
• 2:02:40
  And you could sort of feel the jadedness simmering underneath, but I wanted to call it at one point in the conversation where he was actually being.
• 2:02:50
  So like by choice, so optimistic.
• 2:02:52
  Even like talking about he thinks there's like a new wave in Canada coming and there's so many great new artists and so many great other venues to play.
• 2:03:00
  That could be really cool and you could sense that he's still in this place of discovering all that.
• 2:03:05
  So I just think there's a whole lot of stuff in there.
• 2:03:10
  There's just, I need to go back and listen again.
• 2:03:12
  I think that's okay about the things that I.
• 2:03:15
  Might have missed.
• 2:03:16
  Uh, so I thought it was a good bookend on the season.
• 2:03:19
  It was a very good that way.
• 2:03:20
  The last like couple, but especially, yeah.
• 2:03:22
  This one as a last episode, they were just very like representative of what the show's about.
• 2:03:26
  Yeah.
• 2:03:27
  There was one part where he wasn't, maybe as I, it's my sense was he wasn't wanting to be as candid and that was literally talking about the excessive years of his alcoholism.
• 2:03:40
  And I get it.
• 2:03:41
  Why?
• 2:03:41
  Because he even said himself, he's like, he doesn't want his interviews to always be about his sobriety.
• 2:03:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:03:46
  And so I didn't want to go that way.
• 2:03:48
  I only wanted to reference it in light of the musical career.
• 2:03:53
  Um, but I sort of sensed like, don't jump in on that.
• 2:03:58
  'cause there's such a parallel to me that was happening between, um, you know.
• 2:04:03
  Obviously, like we use the term excessive, like he was into excessive substance abuse.
• 2:04:09
  Right?
• 2:04:10
  Yeah.
• 2:04:11
  But what he was also describing in his career at the exact same time was he was excessive in his touring.
• 2:04:17
  Yeah.
• 2:04:17
  Like 62 days in 50 days or something.
• 2:04:21
  Right?
• 2:04:22
  Yeah.
• 2:04:22
  Performances.
• 2:04:23
  Yes.
• 2:04:23
  And then, and then like the ridiculous discography of all the music that he's made that we can't even count and he's put out.
• 2:04:31
  So there's just been just theme of like, he was so compulsive with and excessive in his output of everything in his life.
• 2:04:41
  Like that's just, I, I guess I was just thinking like, that's just a rare person.
• 2:04:46
  You don't meet that person every day.
• 2:04:49
  No.
• 2:04:49
  That can, that has managed that kind of output in their life.
• 2:04:53
  Um, and they're still so optimistic and Yeah.
• 2:04:56
  And still is going and still is looking for a new way to keep going, so, yeah.
• 2:05:00
  Yeah.
• 2:05:00
  Anyhow.
• 2:05:01
  I like that.
• 2:05:01
  And yeah, very close to the theme, which, um, makes the heart feel good.
• 2:05:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:05:08
  Okay, so let's, um, just real quick, for anyone who's lasted this long, um, a little preview on next week, which we've already sort of teased.
• 2:05:19
  Um, we're going to put out a post fame plus, uh, the week before Christmas.
• 2:05:26
  Yeah.
• 2:05:26
  But we're going to call it like our.
• 2:05:29
  Post fame wrapped.
• 2:05:32
  Yes.
• 2:05:32
  'cause we will like highlight some of the things from our Spotify rap, but I think we want to pull out even just'cause we've been talking about our music pics all year since we launched the entire podcast back in January.
• 2:05:44
  So, um, that's true.
• 2:05:46
  We've been talking about our music pics and then I think it'd be fun to just see what has lasted and stuck around.
• 2:05:52
  And then we'll also talk about where we think maybe Spotify's.
• 2:05:56
  Data is crap and they're lying to us, and then see what surprises we also had and share what we think everyone should hear.
• 2:06:05
  True.
• 2:06:05
  Add to the playlist.
• 2:06:06
  Okay then we'll do that.
• 2:06:08
  Well, I'll see you in a few days then.
• 2:06:10
  Well, yes, you will give.
• 2:06:12
  Bye.
• 2:06:12
  Okay, bye.