Latest / In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch / Tessa Veksler

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Tessa Veksler · In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch

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I am Rabbi Ami Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York.
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And you're listening to In these times,
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you will see that my guest today is a natural born leader.
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In the year before everything changed for Jews on American campuses, Tessa Wexler
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ran for the uc, Santa Barbara student body president against another Jewish
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student doing her best to avoid having her campaign become a referendum on Israel.
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And she won.
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But by October 8th, 2023, at the beginning of her senior year, the hate came pouring
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in online from unknown actors, but also at school from classmates, other
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members of the student body government.
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And even fellow Jews,
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if you take away what it's about, if you take away the fact that
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it's about identity or Israel, whatever it is, it's just bullying.
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And I think that's why I felt so isolating.
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People just kind of opted to say nothing.
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Hate signs went up and a vote to recall Tessa's presidency
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was held and narrowly failed.
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Tessa, it's a great honor to be able to talk to you.
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You're one of my heroes.
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Welcome to in these Times.
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Thank you for having me.
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I'm honored.
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Uh, you came to, um, my attention and to so many other people's attention,
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uh, in the aftermath of October 7th.
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By then, at least when I first heard of you, you were already the president of the
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University of California Santa Barbara.
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So you had, I, I assume that you had, uh.
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Public leadership ambitions, uh, and you wanted to be involved in, uh, the student
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atmosphere on campus in a public way.
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Did you ever anticipate that you would be thrust into these circumstances?
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Definitely not.
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I, you know, I, I actually wanted to run for student body president.
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Since I started in person at UCSB because I was working for the student body
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president at the time in my first role in student government who was Israeli.
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And she was so awesome.
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And I was like, well, you know, if she can do this and she's, you
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know, proud of her identity, then, then I can absolutely do it too.
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And so I don't think anyone could have foreseen October 7th, but especially.
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I think maybe I was a bit naive in thinking, you know,
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my community accepted me.
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I was super integrated into campus life, and I honestly thought that this would
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be, you know, the, the event that would change people's minds and that we would
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get sympathy for more than 24 hours.
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And unfortunately, I was wrong.
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When you ran and won, what was the margin of victory?
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Was were you running against someone?
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Was it close?
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I was running against someone.
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I was running against two people or three people, I believe all, all men.
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My main competition was actually a Jewish student, and unfortunately he got endorsed
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by Students for Justice in Palestine.
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And so the one thing that I didn't want the race to be about was
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this, because I wanted to be.
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You know, I wanted to be voted for based on my merits and based off of the
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things I wanted to accomplish in office.
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And instead it became this like identity war.
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And so the margin was actually very slim.
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I won by about a hundred votes.
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And for context, our undergraduate population is about 24,000 students.
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And for a valid election, we need at least 20% of the school to vote.
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And so winning by a hundred votes is a very, very slim margin.
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And already then there was the issue of Israel that became part of that campaign.
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Definitely.
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I think because it was almost like the one thing that the student had over me was
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that he was less of a Zionist than I was.
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Uh, because at the time when I was running, I was the president of
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Students supporting Israel, and it wasn't something that I was hiding.
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But it became about that very quickly, and the most unfortunate thing was that
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this individual had not been involved in student government at all, had rarely been
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involved in the Jewish community, had very little participation until it was election
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time, and then made his participation in the Jewish community very obvious.
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And I was someone who held.
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You know, I did three years of student government.
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I did three years of Jewish leadership across all the Jewish clubs on campus.
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So for me it was really disappointing.
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The one vote that I thought I could count on was the Jewish vote, and for
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some reason even that was, was a battle.
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Mm-hmm.
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Which I definitely didn't foresee.
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But you had two Jews who were running for the top position.
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You won.
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Yes.
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So does that say something about the student body at U-C-S-B-I?
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To be frank, I think it says less about the student body and
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more about my effort because.
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For him to get votes.
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He actually put in very minimal effort in terms of campaigning.
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I was out there every single day, like talking to people
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individually, asking them to vote.
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I was going like above and beyond.
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I had a whole team of people that was helping me because I knew that when
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it came to the Israel Palestine debate that I was outnumbered on campus.
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And so I genuinely think that it was my individual campaign strategy that I
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was using that got more people to vote.
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Also, I was very active in my Greek life campaigning, and that's also a majority
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of the vote and where that came from.
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And actually students that were involved in Greek life were very
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supportive post-OC October 7th as well.
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So it's, it's like, uh, general campaigns get out the vote is a
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really important component of winning.
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Yeah, for sure.
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I think he thought he had it in the bag and if I tried a
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little bit less, he would've.
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So you were seated before October 7th, but not, not significantly before.
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Right.
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You, you entered into your senior year,
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you get elected in May of the previous school year.
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So you had been president for about six months before October 7th.
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Right.
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Tell us, uh, what were you doing?
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What was your reaction when you heard the news on October 7th and when were
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the first indications that things were going to get much more ugly
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than even you might have expected?
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I think so October 7th it was Shabbat and I keep Shabbat,
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so I was completely offline.
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It was also Sim Rah weekend, so it was a 48 hour period of being offline.
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And I found out about October 7th while I was still in my bed because I woke up
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and I. My housemates were already awake and they were waiting for me to wake up
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and they were like, you know, there's a war happening in Israel right now.
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And I didn't really react 'cause I'm like, okay, like I get, you know,
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rocket alerts on my phone all the time.
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This is super common.
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And they were like, it's not that kind of war.
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And so my friend came up to me and she showed me her phone.
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And the first video that I saw was the video of Nama Levy being put in
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the back of a truck by terrorists.
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And there was blood all over her and I just was incomplete.
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Shock.
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I was so devastated and I ended up telling my friends, I
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was like, please call my mom.
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'cause they didn't keep Shava and like tell her to call her family in Israel.
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I don't know how aware she is of how bad this is, and I'm more
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plugged into this world than she is.
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And it was just such a weird time because Sim Torah is supposed to be,
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you know, like the most joyous day of the year and it was such a weird.
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Experience because all of us came to Habad to celebrate some Q Torah.
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But it was like all these conflicting emotions of this holiday is supposed to be
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happy, but none of us are happy right now.
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And then as soon as I got my phone back, I, I mean, I didn't even
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think twice because I have always been someone who's posted very
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publicly about my support for Israel.
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I lived in Israel, so I made a post immediately and.
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Immediately the reaction before Israel had responded while we were still counting
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or dead, I was already getting allotted.
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A lot of hate.
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From who?
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From students.
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They were just run of the mill students or was it some kind of organized campaign?
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I think at first, like that first period, like October 8th, ninth, the first
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week or two following, it was mainly.
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Students, but it's so hard to identify on social media.
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But there were, there was no kind of, it wasn't organized at, at that point.
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There were also people just that I knew that didn't go to my school.
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One of the first things that someone had posted was that like it was a girl I
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actually went to high school with and she posted a photo of me and she basically
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said, this girl deserves to be dragged through the streets, and she deserves
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to be afraid that she's a Zionist.
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And that was one of the first times that I had read something so.
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Threatening toward me, um, on social media.
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So,
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and that was within a day or two of knowing about the events of October 7th.
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Yeah.
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Were these, um, students with some kind of Middle Eastern background or
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foreign background, or were they mostly kids like you grew up in America?
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It's hard to tell.
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It's on social media, in, in terms of the in-person stuff.
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To my knowledge, there were very few actually Palestinian students
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that were a part of Students for Justice for Palestine on campus.
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And one of the girls actually, that gave me the hardest time
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in person and online was white.
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Definitely a lot of the students actually that were the most, you know, that wanted
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to show the most support, I guess, for.
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This like campaign against me were white students.
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And I think that a big part of this is kind of this morality Olympics of how
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do I show that I'm the most moral person that there is and how do I, how do I
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prove a point due to like this white guilt that I stand on the side of the
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oppressed and not on the side of the perceived oppressor, which would be me?
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So the kinds of threats you were receiving were threats of.
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Violence against you and it rose to that kind of level?
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Or was it just kind of general statements of Jews are bad, or was
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it specifically targeted to you?
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Yeah, it didn't feel general at all because it was always
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either my name or she or my job.
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The uniqueness of my situation is that people found something tangible
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that they could grasp onto that would be a victory if they had won.
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So essentially because of my position.
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They saw this as, okay, if we can do something like take a Zionist
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out of a position of power at our university, that's a win for our team.
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And so I think that that's why it was so particularly targeted
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because they found a way to almost.
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Disguise their antisemitism by saying, no, no, no.
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The reason that this is a problem is because she's a student body president
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and she's not allowed to express views that don't align with the majority of the
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campus community, which isn't a standard that you would probably hold for any
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other person of any other background.
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You wouldn't tell a black person that they're not allowed to
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take a stance against racism.
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And so for some reason, when it comes to Jews.
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We're not allowed to speak up for our people or our community or
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the hatred that we experience.
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It's one thing, you know, to talk about Israel and anti-Zionism and to make that
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kind of a generalized statement and not to personally threaten somebody's, uh,
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wellbeing, safety or even, uh, life, which a anybody should be able to see is
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blatant clear hatred and antisemitism.
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You experienced that in a widespread manner on campus itself, personally,
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not simply online on various social media sites, but actually
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face-to-face with fellow students.
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Was that the first time in your life that you experienced this kind
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of personal direct antisemitism?
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I.
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On the scale, yes, but not in form.
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I went on my first trip to Israel coming into my senior year of high school.
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And so I came back, you know, like I was obsessed.
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I started a Jewish club.
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I was always talking about it.
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And so during that year, my senior year, my house was vandalized three times,
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and that's genuinely no coincidence.
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Also, I did have, you know, some people make certain comments that were
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anti-Semitic, but like the classic, you know, anti-Semitic tropes of
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a, you know, a swastika on the desk or like, let me, you know, throw
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coins at you, that type of thing.
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But it was much easier to manage on an individual level,
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especially face-to-face for me.
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I've never been someone who.
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Cowers to bullying.
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I've never been someone who kind of goes with what's trendy.
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I'm, I kind of walk to the beat of my own drum, and these
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things don't typically phase me.
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And so when I had individual experiences like that, I really stood
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up for myself in a way that those individuals would never come near me
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again and make that type of comment.
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But in this instance, I felt totally helpless because again, the scale of.
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That it was happening, and also the fact that I couldn't identify the majority of
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the people that were saying these things.
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Did it surprise you?
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Uh, the extent and the, the, just the, the sheer malice, uh, your
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parents came from, uh, the former Soviet Union and from Odessa, right?
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From Ukraine.
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Yes, that's correct.
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And presumably they came with the rest of the Jews who were in a certain sense
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fleeing from the kind of persecution under the Soviet regime Then.
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Our people experience throughout the 20th century and they came to the land
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of the free and the home of the brave and you know, the golden land for the Jews.
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Did it surprise you that university atmosphere would be like that?
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I think I wasn't surprised at the overall hostility toward Israel
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because that always existed.
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Maybe if not, you know, on this magnitude and scale.
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But for sure I was definitely taken aback by the individualized type of hatred.
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Mostly because, and I say this all the time.
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If you take away what it's about, if you take away the fact that
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it's about identity or Israel, whatever it is, it's just bullying.
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And from such a young age, like in elementary school, we were already
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getting lessons in class about bullying and how it appears and how
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you're not supposed to be a bystander.
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And so for me, that was the most shocking thing because if this was happening
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to someone else in front of my eyes.
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I, I would, I would say something, I would never let this happen to one of
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my peers, even if I didn't know them.
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And I think about this too.
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My response, again, if, if I was a member of the Jewish community and there was
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someone else in my position, the second there was one comment or two comments, I
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would've already organized, you know, a Jewish community rally of support behind
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this individual and made it explicitly clear where we stand as a community.
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And that just didn't happen.
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And I think that's why I felt so isolating because.
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For me, an attack on one Jew is an attack on the entire Jewish community and the
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entire Jewish world, which is exactly why October 7th kind of penetrated
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the entire, you know, global Jewish community because an attack on Jews
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anywhere is an attack on Jews everywhere.
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So that was the most shocking part to me, was both within the community and
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also within a student community that.
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You know, champions, all these liberal values, and I would assume that
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harassment and bullying would be things that they would want to fight against.
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You said you felt isolated.
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What was the nature of your support from fellow students, from faculty
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members and from the administration?
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I would say that in February, kind of, that's when I posted for the first time
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and I garnered all this support, you know, nationally, internationally, online, but.
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In person.
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The first five months were before I had posted between October and February.
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Were very, were very isolating.
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Partially, perhaps due to my own, you know, response to all of this is
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that I secluded myself in many ways because I was so overwhelmingly upset
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and just like sick to my stomach every day when I came on campus.
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So maybe part of it is a reflection of how I reacted, but.
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The way that I would describe it is it's like if you have a friend or
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someone in your community and they experience a tremendous loss and you
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just dunno what to say because you think you can't say the right thing.
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Like you can't say, how are you or how do I, you know, make you feel better?
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And so people just kind of opted to say nothing a lot of the time.
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I wanna focus on that.
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So are there a lot of Jewish students at uh, Santa Barbara?
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12% of the university is Jewish,
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so they, they, you were the president.
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Everybody knew you were Jewish.
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October 7th happens.
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Everybody sees the enormous barrage of hate that you're being subjected to.
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You would expect the Jewish students to respond in a very supportive way.
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Am I understanding correctly that you're saying they didn't really
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respond in that kind of way?
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Not in, in my view, I didn't feel that way, and I would say that a lot
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of the friends that I did have that were by my side would agree with me.
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Why is that?
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Why do you think is that here are lessons that you can bring to
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light and shed some light on for the rest of the Jewish community?
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What's going on?
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We 'cause 'cause we always ask ourselves what's going on?
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What is the younger generation feeling?
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What are they thinking?
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What are they doing?
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For obvious reasons, one, we care about them, but two, they're
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the future or leadership of the American Jewish community.
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So what do you think, what, what, what were they thinking?
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I think it shifted the further away we got from the actual
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October 7th attacks, I think.
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The first reason is very understandable to me, which is that October 7th
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was extremely traumatic, especially for the Israeli American community.
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And we have a lot of Israeli Americans that go to UCSP.
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And so it's almost like when you're, you're trying to process this
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tragedy that happened, and it's something that's also unique to
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our communities that we're never.
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Able to process these horrific things that happen to us
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because we're always on defense.
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We always have to be fighting for people to recognize our antisemitism.
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We don't even have the time to react to the antisemitism that's happening to us.
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So I think that's part of it, is people just kind of
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grappling with the event itself.
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I think the second piece is.
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There are very few people that are leaders.
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There's few people that you know, can lead that rise to the occasion
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and takes a specific type of person, a specific type of personality.
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And so I think that maybe there weren't a lot of people that wanted
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to be the first to organize or be the one to put it together.
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I also think, and a couple of my friends say this, that they don't think that
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many of these students knew truly the extent of what I was going through, but.
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I had a hard time believing it because people knew that people were talking
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about me on Reddit, for example, before I knew, a long time before I knew because
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I'm not on that platform, and the first person to actually tell me that it was
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happening didn't even go to UCSB anymore.
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They graduated the year prior.
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And that to me was like, so everyone's been reading this behind my back
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and no one is saying anything.
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And so part of it I think was also this fear of like, I can't
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believe this is happening.
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Maybe, and I don't want this to happen to me, but I, I genuinely
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think a lot of the community was very lost on how to act in this situation
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because I think it was unprecedented.
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And I, I don't hold it against anyone because I think we all process things
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differently, but it was something that really deeply affected me because.
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I felt like people were okay with me taking the bullets, but not okay to like
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help shield me, if that makes sense.
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Do you think there's something about your background, you were born in the United
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States, but your parents came from the Soviet Union and I assume that their
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circle of friends includes, uh, people who, uh, came from the Soviet Union.
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Do you think there's something about your background that.
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Makes you more sensitive to these kind of things than say, American Jews who've
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been here for three or four generations?
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I think so, and it's an interesting piece of my upbringing.
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I understood that I was Russian speaking long before I
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understood that I was Jewish.
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At least that's how I remember, like in my consciousness as a young person,
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I was always a Russian speaking person first and and a Jew second.
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And obviously that's really reversed, but I grew up.
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In what felt very much like a Soviet household.
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I grew up speaking Russian.
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I grew up reading Russian books.
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I grew up going to Russian school on Saturdays and then eventually Hebrew
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school on Sundays, and you know, American school the rest of the time.
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And I think that I definitely grew up in a setting that I never feel
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fully American, if that makes sense.
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And I think a lot of children of immigrants feel this way because you're
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raised kind of with like one foot in and one foot out of American society.
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I think that Russians and you know, people from the former Soviet
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Union, they raise their children with a specific type of discipline.
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And a lot of it genuinely is personality.
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If you ask my parents, they're like, we have no idea like where you came from.
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It's impossible that you're a child sometimes because it's so against the na.
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My family's so private, most people in my family are not this type of personality.
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And that's super outspoken and I think it even came as a shock to my own parents.
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In terms of how I, how I managed all of this too, I think that my
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strength surprised me and it surprised my family and those around me.
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Um, some people say that they saw that I was going to be able to handle it all
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along, but I definitely think that it's, it's a part of it because for me, it's
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such a fresh memory, at least knowing that my parents and also my brother or
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my sibling came to America as refugees.
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And so for me it was like the deepest punch because I'm looking at my parents
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and I'm looking at my brother and I was like, why did they do all of this?
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For this to be happening in the place that was supposed to be their safe
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haven and to their child that they had so many years later it in the country
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that was supposed to do that for them.
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I have this theory, it's not empirical, but I think the children of immigrants
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and immigrants, especially people who fled environments that were
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anti-Semitic and may have left in part or completely because of that
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anti-Jewish, uh, persecution and hostility, I think they're more sensitive.
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Than American Jews who've been here and have never experienced
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the kind of animosity that we're seeing post October 7th.
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And ironically, I, you know, maybe I'm making too much of this, but
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ironically, I, I think it's actually a sign of privilege to not be sensitive
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to the nature of anti-Zionism and the reason why most, uh, Jews of the world
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ended up in Israel in the first place.
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And so I, so it's just simply harder for American Jews who have never
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experienced any of this to really grasp the ideological nature of
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anti-Zionism and to know how to respond.
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You know, and it might be easier for people who have a shorter distance,
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uh, who were immigrants themselves, or their parents felt it firsthand.
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I 100% agree with you, and I think the saddest thing is, is that I actually
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think that the American College students of today will almost reflect
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that to their children because now this is one of the first times that
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the younger generation has experienced anti-Semitism on such a widespread scale.
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And so I almost feel like almost every young Jewish person I know has
24:16
experienced some form of antisemitism.
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So I think that that is also part of the shift is that a lot of my friends'
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parents that were born and raised in America faced very little anti-Semitism
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because I think people were just, didn't have the, the nerve, frankly, to be
24:35
anti-Semitic in terms of the proximity to the times of the Holocaust and
24:40
to the time when Israel was created.
24:42
People were very sympathetic to the Jewish community and knew
24:44
that we really needed a state.
24:46
And so because.
24:47
This is becoming more of a distant memory, and unfortunately
24:50
the population of Holocaust survivors is diminishing as well.
24:54
I think it just kind of is removed further and further from our consciousness
24:57
as a society, and so that's kind of what we're seeing reflected now.
25:08
You're really a spectacular leader.
25:10
I, you know, I look at you and I say to myself, much, much
25:15
better and more impressive than I remember myself at your age.
25:18
But when I look to you for a general sense of what's going on amongst
25:23
the American Jewish youth, it's kind of a pessimistic perspective.
25:28
What you're sharing with us that doesn't necessarily bode well for the future
25:33
of the American Jewish community.
25:34
That's still post-OC October 7th.
25:37
They don't really get it yet.
25:39
Is that right?
25:40
Do I understand you correctly?
25:42
I would say that student involvement and engagement on college campuses
25:46
has increased exponentially, and you can ask any Habad or Halal on any
25:49
college campus that question, and they will tell you that they've seen
25:52
more Jewish attendance to Shabbats and events than probably ever before.
25:57
The two concerns I have are.
26:02
Whenever I go to these college campuses and I ask them, how
26:05
many Jews go to this school?
26:07
Usually it's in the thousands usually, and within the room that
26:12
I'm speaking, it's usually between 30 to, let's say, 75 students.
26:20
That's a very small percentage of engaged students out of the Jewish community.
26:27
The second concern is that.
26:31
Jews get involved, unfortunately, the most when we're going through a
26:35
tragedy or a hardship, and the only way that we're going to shift the current
26:41
attitude towards Jews everywhere is by being proactive, because something
26:48
that unfortunately is never on our side is that we're always on the defense.
26:52
And I always tell students, if nothing is happening on your campus, then you have.
26:58
This gift that's being handed to you where you can actually host something that isn't
27:03
a reaction to hatred that we're receiving.
27:05
My biggest dream one day is for people to know us for who we are and not
27:09
just for what we've been through.
27:11
And so I think I have a lot of hope because for every leader that I see
27:18
as a part of the anti-Israel movement, who I fear might one day be in
27:22
government office in the United States.
27:24
I see an incredible pro-Israel person, Jewish and not Jewish, who
27:29
also has the potential to step up to the occasion once they get there.
27:33
And so I definitely have a lot of hope.
27:35
And I think right now it's all about getting the train back on the
27:38
tracks and, and for organizations to really seize the moment, to engage
27:43
young Jews as much as possible.
27:45
Because this is the window of opportunity and if we miss our moment,
27:48
we're really going to regret it.
27:50
What specifically do you think we, the older generation of, uh, rabbis,
27:55
communal leaders, teachers, what do you think we need to know about,
27:59
uh, the younger generation of Jews?
28:01
Your generation?
28:02
What have we done right and where have we gone wrong?
28:07
I think that the issue is most of the time the average Jewish student that I know.
28:13
Isn't aware of all the organizations that are out there to support them.
28:17
And so the reason that I knew everywhere that I needed to go to get the support
28:21
that I needed is because I'm very engaged.
28:24
I was involved in fellowships, I went to conferences.
28:27
But the truth is, is that whatever, 80% or 50% of the Jewish community,
28:31
that's more on, you know, not in the center, not super involved.
28:35
They're not aware.
28:36
And so part of it is really getting in front of those people.
28:39
I think that's a mistake that we make is we're engaging the engaged
28:43
instead of engaging the disengaged.
28:45
So that's one thing.
28:46
I do think that the support for students like me on college campuses, for what
28:52
I went through, I felt like every organization was really there for me.
28:55
And I felt that if I needed anything, whether it was something like legal
28:59
advice or security, or even just, you know, people to show up somewhere
29:03
or to help create a petition or whatever it is, I had that support.
29:09
Really, really quickly.
29:10
So I think that that's awesome.
29:12
And I know that these organizations have really been working in overdrive.
29:16
And in terms of the things that you could be doing, you have to ask the young
29:23
Jews that you represent or the people, the community that you're a part of,
29:27
because I would say that mostly right now I think young Jews are looking.
29:32
For inspiration.
29:33
I think that, you know, whenever there's like a high profile speaker
29:37
or someone that they can relate to or someone that's accomplished something
29:42
that these people admire, they show up.
29:45
And so I think that that's a big piece of it is trying to find out what do
29:49
young Jews in your community need?
29:50
Because young Jewish students at UCLA or UCSB need something very different
29:57
than the Jewish students at Columbia.
30:01
So it's all about catering to your community and asking students
30:04
directly what do you need and how we can we support you.
30:06
It has to be a collaborative effort and I think that we do that well a lot
30:12
of the time by giving students control to kind of organize events and, and
30:17
take on these leadership roles, but the more that we do that, the better.
30:22
Could you describe to us what was the nature of your support
30:26
from the administration of UCSB?
30:30
I would call.
30:32
The support from administration, perceived support to hide their
30:37
inaction because I, I thought that the administration was totally on my
30:42
side because I spoke to the chancellor every week and I worked with them.
30:48
I technically, as the president, you are a member of the administration and so.
30:53
You're very involved.
30:54
I was an honorary member of the Board of Trustees.
30:56
I was working with the uc Regents.
30:58
I was working even with the uc President, president Drake.
31:01
And so my understanding was, okay, these people know who I am.
31:05
They work alongside me, so obviously they're going to do the right thing,
31:11
which to me was extremely obvious that I was being harassed and that I was
31:14
being bullied, and that everything that they were trying to do goes
31:18
against the policies of our university.
31:20
Although, you know, I had all these meetings and I had these offers for
31:23
mental health and oh, you know, file all these cases, nothing happened.
31:28
There was no result there.
31:30
And the closer that we got to the recall election, the more it was
31:33
like, sorry, our hands are tied.
31:34
There's nothing we can do.
31:36
And a lot of the time it was like, well, when they were ruling on the cases that
31:41
I had against specific students and what they were speci like, you know, individual
31:44
things that people were saying to me.
31:47
A lot of the comments that I was getting from administrators was, you have to
31:52
show, you have to prove that these comments are actively making you suffer.
31:57
And so this is part of it where I was like, so because I'm resilient, the people
32:02
that are bullying me don't deserve to be held accountable for their behavior.
32:06
And I would ask them, I said, what are you waiting for?
32:08
What to what extent do I need to.
32:11
Be like depressed.
32:12
Do I need to be suicidal?
32:14
What do, what do?
32:14
What's like the scale that you're measuring on in terms of what
32:18
they consider to be suffering?
32:19
Because I think that if this was, for example, it was a sexual assault case,
32:25
you would still go through the process of holding the rapist accountable.
32:30
Whether or not the person that was assaulted has the specific
32:33
reaction that you would expect.
32:36
So that is how I felt is I felt like there was an assault on my humanity, an assault
32:41
on my freedoms as a student and the right that I had earned by being voted into
32:46
a position and all these perpetrators were totally getting away with it.
32:51
Do you think your university administrators, and maybe
32:54
you can generalize across the board on American universities.
32:58
You think they have a blind spot towards Jews?
33:00
Do you even think they consider Jews a minority?
33:03
And because what is offensive and against the rules, which would be so obvious if,
33:09
uh, these kind of actions were directed against anybody from any other minority,
33:14
somehow or another, it's morally opaque for them when it comes to the Jews
33:18
and I'm, I'm just wondering why, what I'm, I've been trying to understand
33:21
this now for two years actually.
33:24
I think it's complicated, but I will say.
33:28
If I were to give these administrators on any of these campuses, the benefit
33:32
of the doubt, it's that most forms of hatred, aside from antisemitism,
33:39
are really clearly defined.
33:42
And there are very specific policies on how to respond when these things happen.
33:47
And I think that part of the issue that we have is that there's never
33:52
been a requirement for universities to, especially universities that receive.
33:57
Government funding to apply the same definition of antisemitism
34:01
that the government holds.
34:02
And so if our government holds the IRA definition of antisemitism, and you're
34:06
a university who's receiving money from said government, you should have
34:10
the same definition of antisemitism for your university that you evaluate
34:14
antisemitic incidents based off of.
34:16
I don't think that it should be the decision of the university
34:19
administration of how they want to think about antisemitism.
34:23
Honestly, until these universities are really brought to the principal's
34:26
office and they're told exactly how to handle these situations and they
34:30
have policies set in place, I, I think that the same issue will keep arising.
34:35
And, and a lot of what I've heard also is that administrators genuinely
34:39
just didn't know what to do because it was totally unprecedented.
34:42
Things like what's happening now and what happened at Columbia were
34:45
things that the administration there had never faced before.
34:49
They said that they've never faced anything like this, I
34:51
believe since the Vietnam War, I.
34:53
That's part of it is uncharted territory.
34:55
But you know, now almost what are we, almost two years into this
34:59
war, there's really no excuse.
35:02
And so I, I think that it's a part of the American consciousness to maybe
35:06
not see Jews as a minority or not take antisemitism super seriously.
35:10
And a lot of it is because people whitewash the Jewish community.
35:14
And right now we are in an age where whiteness is the race of the oppressor.
35:20
And so there's no way that.
35:22
Someone who looks like me could possibly be oppressed.
35:25
And that's most of the comments that I get on social media is like, you know,
35:28
you're white and you have blue eyes.
35:30
You saying that you're oppressed is absolutely ridiculous.
35:33
And so it's a complicated thing to explain.
35:36
There's no other hatred like antisemitism because it's based on
35:41
so many things that a lot of other minorities don't quite understand.
35:48
Do you think the administration.
35:50
Is fearful.
35:52
Do you think they're apprehensive?
35:53
Do you think they, they, they're worried about the reaction from their students
35:57
and they try to find the safest way to respond even if it's a non-response?
36:02
Yes.
36:03
I. I think that they're afraid of public opinion.
36:06
I think that most university administrations are worried about
36:09
money and making sure that they keep the university afloat and
36:12
keep the university thriving.
36:14
And so I think they typically succumb to the majority.
36:18
But I also think it varies, you know, by state even there's a reason why at
36:22
the Florida universities you haven't heard about a lot of anti-Semitic
36:25
incidents, and that's just because their government handles, their
36:28
local government handles things differently, their state government, so.
36:32
I think it really depends on the climate, but at the same time, I think university
36:37
administrations right now, I guess aside from Harvard, are equally afraid of losing
36:44
their federal funding now, and because of the current crackdown on universities
36:48
from the Trump administration, I think that at least from what I'm seeing,
36:52
there's a shift and there is genuinely a fear, especially, you know, for people.
36:58
Like me who have, you know, evidence through the roof of how the
37:02
administration was negligent toward me when it came to fighting the
37:07
antisemitism I was going through.
37:09
I think that they know that if there were to be a case that
37:12
they would most likely lose.
37:15
Hmm.
37:16
Tell us about the recall election.
37:18
So you're the president, when did the petition arise?
37:22
When was the election actually held?
37:25
So.
37:27
The craziest piece, which most people don't know is that university
37:31
administrators actually knew that there was a petition for my recall for many
37:35
months before it was revealed to me, and they actually even told some of my
37:41
colleagues about the petition and made them think that it was confidential
37:47
and that I wasn't allowed to know.
37:49
That it existed a petition for my removal on the basis of my identity that all
37:53
the administrators knew about, that I wasn't allowed to know about the person
37:56
that was going to be affected by this.
37:58
What was the specific cause for the recall?
38:03
The specific cause for the recall was Zionism, but the way that it was
38:09
explained was that, you know, this is like a racist, bigoted movement and we
38:13
can't have someone who's a racist in.
38:16
This position because it doesn't represent the majority of
38:19
the student body's opinions.
38:21
And so it was definitely watered down.
38:23
But the truth is, is that a lot of the complaints and a lot of the
38:27
things that were being discussed on the day that this was all being
38:30
debated, it, it was very obvious.
38:34
It was super specific that it was about Israel, it was about my posting.
38:38
It was about all of it altogether.
38:39
So.
38:41
But in terms of the recall election, I found out very late, and I'm pretty
38:46
sure it was already going on in the fall when people were already asking.
38:50
I think it was honestly like end of October, probably, when people
38:53
were already saying, okay, like how do we get a petition started?
38:57
And then after February, the timeline.
39:00
Really sped up because then there was an account that was created on social
39:04
media called Recall, Tessa ler, and all these students were following the
39:07
account and posting about the process and to show up to get me removed.
39:11
And so the way that recall elections work at UCSB is that first you have
39:18
to get a certain amount of signatures on a petition, but the people that can
39:22
sign it is also a very specific group.
39:23
It has to be people that voted.
39:25
The election for the student body president, and so I believe that
39:29
got over 800 signatures, which was above the threshold that they needed.
39:35
Then once a petition gets enough signatures, it is presented to the student
39:39
Senate and the student Senate then votes on whether or not a recall election
39:43
should take place where the entire student body would essentially receive a
39:47
ballot and they would vote on whether or not I should be removed on this basis.
39:51
And so the Senate.
39:54
Essentially had a six hour long meeting with a public forum where
39:59
students could come and speak for two minutes at a time while I was sitting
40:03
there basically saying why they think that I was not deserving of my role.
40:08
And then at the end of it, they voted and I narrowly escaped this by one vote.
40:15
And something else to note is that the new student body
40:18
president was already elected.
40:21
At this time, and I only had two weeks of my term, and so it was so incredibly
40:28
obvious, more obvious than it already was that this was a symbolic removal.
40:33
And what did you feel, I mean, you won, but you won by one vote and it shouldn't
40:37
have happened from the beginning.
40:39
So how did you feel that day?
40:42
Relieved, because I, all I could think about was if I. Don't win this.
40:50
What is, what kind of message is this going to send?
40:53
Then the more that I thought about it, I felt betrayed because a lot
40:57
of the senators that had voted were people that I thought were my friendly
41:03
colleagues, and they clearly weren't.
41:05
And I also in a way felt kind of vindicated because
41:09
I. I was just really proud.
41:12
I was like, I can't believe that I made it through this whole situation,
41:15
and I made it on the other side and I maintained my position.
41:18
I won against all odds.
41:21
I stayed in my position against all odds and somehow turned the most
41:27
challenging situation of my life into the most positive past year.
41:33
And so I think I felt a lot of pride in that moment of,
41:37
okay, like every difficult.
41:39
Piece of this process was, was totally worth it.
41:43
You know, I have to tell you, uh, when I read about this,
41:46
you felt pride about yourself.
41:48
But I can't explain to you the pride that we felt just observing, uh, what
41:53
you went through and the strength and the courage that you had and, and
41:56
the eloquence of your articulation.
41:59
It's really something amazing.
42:00
It's just fantastic.
42:03
Thank you.
42:03
Thank you so much.
42:04
Could you help us understand.
42:09
The connection, the nexus between anti-Zionism and
42:12
anti-Semitism, as understood by students on university campuses.
42:18
Do you think they realize that anti-Zionism for most Jews
42:22
constitutes anti-Semitism?
42:25
Do you think they really have it out?
42:27
For the Jews or Israel is the cause celeb of the generation, and it's
42:35
a way to express your, your moral standing because everybody agrees
42:41
that Israel is the evil of the world.
42:44
I think in many ways it's the latter.
42:46
I think we're not operating with the same definition of
42:51
Zionism, and so that's the first.
42:54
Disconnect as to why the majority of people don't understand that
42:58
anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.
43:00
It's because they define Zionism as a racist, you know, movement to ethnically
43:05
cleanse all Palestinians from the land.
43:08
And so if they were operating under the actual definition of Zionism, they
43:13
would realize that it is inherently antisemitic to say that Jews don't
43:17
deserve the same indigenous, right?
43:19
Um, as every other indigenous group of people.
43:22
And then in terms of, you know, do they really hate Jews or Israel?
43:27
I, I do think that it's a hatred for Jews and it's a hatred for Israel, and I
43:32
think it starts as a hatred for Israel.
43:34
But what they don't realize is that by establishing the
43:37
double standard to Israel, it's already inherently anti-Semitic.
43:41
And I think also by not acknowledging Jews that are saying that Israel is.
43:48
Completely interconnected with their Jewish identity.
43:51
That's also antisemitic.
43:53
And, and I think it's, honestly, it's, it's cognitive dissonance.
43:56
It's very much like we don't wanna hear this and so we're gonna choose
43:59
not to listen to the Jewish voice or the Jewish definition, or the majority.
44:04
Uh, we'd rather listen to this tiny Jewish minority of people that are
44:09
anti-Israel because it fits our narrative.
44:12
And I think that anti-Zionism turns into anti-Semitism really quickly.
44:16
And I think.
44:18
Unfortunately for a lot of people, you see it all kind of blurring together at
44:22
these protests now, and people are not just chanting against Israel, they're
44:26
claiming that all of the old anti-Semitic tropes that we've heard for for decades
44:31
are, they're almost kind of coming back.
44:34
But now on the left,
44:37
Tess, I hear something that I'm also haven't been able to
44:41
figure out for a year and a half.
44:43
Uh, I, I'm not young and I'm not female.
44:46
But, you know, we went through a period in this country.
44:50
I mean, it's, it's been a decades long struggle for, uh, recognition of female
44:55
rights and women's, uh, standing and in particular in the years before, uh,
45:02
October 7th, 2023, you know, we had this Me Too movement that put special emphasis
45:09
on assuming that when women claim sexual assault, that they're telling the truth.
45:17
And it was especially strongly felt in women of your generation.
45:23
H how do you explain the reaction to the assaults against Israeli women
45:28
and the lack of willingness even to acknowledge that, let alone to
45:32
believe, and to condemn the assaulters.
45:37
It's hard for me to understand as well, and I think, again, it all comes down to.
45:43
How people have managed to politicize even something like sexual assault and
45:50
that Jews and Israelis, because they're the oppressor, they can't be oppressed.
45:56
It's the same thing that, you know, can be narrowed down to what I went through
45:59
on campus, because if you're white and you're in a position of power, then
46:03
oppression doesn't apply to you, which.
46:07
Is ridiculous, but also I think so evidently anti-Semitic, it's, it's, it's
46:14
because they don't recognize Jews to be worthy of the same type of treatment
46:18
that you would give to any other woman.
46:21
And I think that part of the reason that we're experiencing
46:23
this right now and that.
46:25
You know, you're saying we championed women's rights and we fought so hard to
46:29
get to where we are today, is that so many of the students and, and people that are
46:33
on the streets right now screaming against Israel are also profoundly anti-American.
46:39
And I think that that is a big piece of it because I think that people that truly
46:44
champion, you know, American values and believe in the Western free world would
46:51
be on the side of Israel because Israel.
46:54
Even from like a foreign policy lens, Israel is the only stabilizer in
46:59
the Middle East that's protecting, you know, everyone else from Iran.
47:04
So it's completely illogical and I think a lot of it also comes down to education and
47:10
media that people are consuming nowadays.
47:13
In the film that I'm in October 8th, Richie Torres says it best, and he says,
47:17
one thing that we will see in history books in the future as one of our greatest
47:21
flaws in our American government is that we allowed this social media, specifically
47:27
TikTok, an app that's run by our greatest foreign adversary to really perforate
47:32
young minds if we're letting this.
47:35
Gigantic platform that most young people consume nowadays control the narrative
47:40
around what's happening in Israel.
47:42
This is the result, this is the outcome.
47:47
My last question to you is about DEI, uh, you said by virtue of your
47:51
presidency, you're actually in some kind of official or formal way, uh,
47:56
part of the administration itself.
47:58
I don't know what kind of DEI mechanism you had at, uh, Santa Barbara, but do
48:03
you think there's a connection between the ideology of DEI and or the way it's
48:10
executed and implemented on campus and anti-Jewish or anti-Israel hostility?
48:18
I think that, and I'm gonna quote again, I believe Dan Sinor says this
48:23
in the film that DEI was not built.
48:27
With Jews in mind.
48:29
And so if the foundation of DEI isn't built with that, then we can't
48:35
expect it to be used to protect Jewish students from the same
48:38
discrimination as other minorities.
48:41
We don't fit into the definition of what people consider to
48:43
be an oppressed minority.
48:46
And so I think because of the way that it's being evaluated and because
48:50
antisemitism in so many ways is unique and the Jewish community is so unique
48:54
because we've somehow managed to go through some of the worst hatred of
48:59
any group and yet really come out on top in terms of how motivated we
49:04
are in in career and family, in the way that we respond to these things.
49:09
It's very unique to our community and it's really difficult for
49:11
people outside of it to understand.
49:14
How a population of people that go through what we go through could be so resilient.
49:18
And so the automatic kind of connection that people make is that if people are
49:23
this resilient, then it really can't be that bad what they're going through.
49:29
So we don't fit into the mold of what I believe DEI stands for.
49:36
In some, do you have a message for young American Jews who are either
49:41
in university or are graduating high school and are looking for universities?
49:46
Do you have some advice for them?
49:48
I think that if I were to give three blanket pieces of advice to
49:53
people that are going into college, high school students, the first.
49:59
Is to try as hard as you can to pick your university as any other
50:05
young person in the United States would pick their university.
50:08
The saddest message that I get often from parents is, you know, my, my son
50:13
or daughter, they got into uc, Santa Barbara, but because of what you went
50:17
through, I will never let them go.
50:18
That is the like complete antithesis as to what my message is, which is that.
50:24
We don't fight antisemitism by removing ourselves.
50:27
Nothing good ever happens when Jews leave.
50:29
And so we need to continue being a presence and showing that we're
50:33
not willing to be pushed out.
50:35
Select your school based on what you wanna do with your life, and also
50:40
seek out and make sure that there is a Jewish community there, which
50:43
almost every American university has.
50:45
And the second that you get on campus, find that community and find a way
50:48
to get involved because they will be.
50:51
Your home and they will be the people that you can come to when things
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are good and when things are bad.
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And the last thing is to arm yourself with an understanding of Israel and
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our people before you get to college.
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I think that part of the problem.
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Within the Jewish community is that we expect the non-Jewish community
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to know so much about us that we don't even understand ourselves.
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Like, you know, we say, oh, all Jews are not white.
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But could the average, you know, Ashkenazi Jewish person, name the other different
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types of Jews that are out there?
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I personally don't think so.
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We have to understand ourselves.
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We have to understand how the diaspora came to be.
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We have to understand why in all of the current Muslim countries in the world,
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why there are such small populations, if any, of Jewish people there, and how they
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came to Israel and what they went through.
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I think we often educate only about the Jews in Europe.
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Just be armed with, with knowledge and with tools, and
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you really need to seek it out.
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We have to be more proactive as young people.
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Because the odds, unfortunately, I don't know if they will always be
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against us, but right now they are.
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And so we always need to come in more educated, more level headed,
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and more proud than anyone else.
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So that's my advice.
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And, and just for, for everyone in the Jewish community to know that this
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will all be worth it and that we're.
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Really standing on the right side.
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And I believe, I truly believe that future generations of Jews will look
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back on this generation of Jews and how we handle it if we continue moving
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in the right direction, that they will look back with a lot of pride of how
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we responded to, to hatred like this.
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Tessa Ler, one of the great contemporary heroes of, uh, the Jewish world.
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Thank you on, on our behalf, on our collective behalf, and I know you
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have, uh, some personal professional ambitions, but I hope that also
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includes future leadership in the American Jewish community because
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we absolutely need people like you.
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Oh, of course.
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It's my calling.
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I found, and it's something that I'm very passionate about, and.
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It's going to be a part of my life forever, no matter what form it's
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in, so I can promise you that.
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So we, uh, wish you our blessing from strength to strength.
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Thank you so much.
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Thank you for having me.
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Tessa Wexler is as good as it gets.
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What an amazing leader.
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I remember myself as a college student.
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I too assumed a leadership position at my university.
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A London School of Economics.
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In my second year, I headed the Israel Students Association of the
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LSC, and the following year I was elected the president of the Israel
53:40
Students Association of the United Kingdom Uniting Campuses across the uk.
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Tessa is so much better than I was.
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I don't think I could have done what she did.
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I had just completed three years of military service in the IDF.
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I was a bit older than Tessa.
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I. And eventually I became a Jewish communal leader.
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Still her fortitude, courage, eloquence, leadership skills and quiet dignity are
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so far superior to what I possessed.
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There were some anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic sentiments back then
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in Britain, but nothing like what is unfolding on Western campuses today.
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Nothing like what Tessa described at UCSB to all those worried about Gen Z.
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You need to know that we have some awe inspiring young Jews in our community.
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We need to pay attention to them and cultivate them in their hands.
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Lay the future of American Jewish life and if we produce leaders
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like Tessa, we will be fine.
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More than that, we will thrive for 18 months Now, I have asserted in
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speeches, editorials, and meetings.
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That if you are in Jewish communal leadership and October 7th has
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not affected your thinking public pronouncements, and most importantly,
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your daily routine agenda and programming, chances are that you're not meeting the
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historical demands of Jewish leadership.
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October 7th was one of those days that will forever live in infamy.
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If it hasn't changed our lives and our outlooks we're missing.
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The Jewish moment.
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History will weigh us in the balance.
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And find us wanting for me, among other things, this has meant that I
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now state my understanding of Jewish values loudly, passionately, and
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clearly, especially to young adults.
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I know that many of them are acutely sensitive to criticism.
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None of us really likes reproach, and none of us really deals with criticism well.
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I don't know whether it's just that or if there is some special sensitivity
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to criticism of Gen Z that they absorb from society and their parents through
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education and social surroundings.
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Irrespective, I've considered it my responsibility to share with them
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what I consider central Jewish values.
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If they do not hear it from me and other Jewish leaders, then from whom they are,
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of course, free to criticize, reject.
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Or ignore me.
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I assume that most of them do not listen to Jewish podcasts or even
56:21
attend synagogue or other Jewish events, but I do know that my
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messages get through to many of them.
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Last year I put a three minute clip on X that was viewed over 3 million times.
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There were thousands of comments from young adults, although hundreds
56:36
were very angry, even hateful.
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But it's not only Gen Z, it's their parents.
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And especially their younger siblings and the new generation now coming up
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the ranks that I wanna reach as well.
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So to reiterate, I am in covenant with all human beings.
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This is what Judaism teaches.
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I have grasped you by the hand and made you a covenant people.
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Isaiah preached a light of nations opening eyes deprived of light.
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Jews have an obligation to pursue universal justice, righteousness
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virtue, honor rectitude.
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Honesty and decency for all people.
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At the same time, we never intended that our emphasis on Tikun Olam
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social repair would lead some Jews to join anti-Israel demonstrations.
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We wanted to raise generations of Zionists.
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We did not intend for Jews to lead Passover Seders in so-called liberated
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zones, liberated from Zionists that violate not only university policies.
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But threaten the safety of Jewish students.
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Some of those protests contain anti-American sentiments as well.
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We did not intend to encourage or excuse Jews who burn American flags or support
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those who do we did not intend to teach that universal concerns outweigh concerns
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for our own people, that love for humanity replaces love for the Jewish people.
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We wanted to instill liberal values in Jews.
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Not to support ideologies that depart from and even betray liberalism.
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We did not intend that our emphasis on universal concerns lead to a
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detached indifference and a lack of compassion for the murdered,
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brutalized, sexually assaulted, and kidnapped of our own people.
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We did not intend to strip Jewish solidarity, empathy, responsibility,
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and mutuality from Jewish identity.
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Universalism absent Jewish Peoplehood concern for all the families of the Earth.
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Absent concern for our own Jewish family is not Jewish universalism.
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It's just universalism criticize Israeli policy, American policy, the Jewish
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community, and rabbis all you want.
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Do it with relish.
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It's what Jews have done for thousands of years, but to go against our people.
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Never to all of us, including younger adults, direct your hearts
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and your eyes towards your people.
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If they rejoice, rejoice with them.
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And if they are suffering, suffer with them.
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Mourn with them, support them.
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Help them, free them, redeem them.
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Until next time.
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This is in these times.