Latest / Conversations with Dad / Setting Intentions
Transcript
- mbrownstein3485: Hey, Dad. Hey. So it is Matthew speaking. I'm speaking from school. Where are you speaking from, I'm in my office because we have two grandchildren upstairs. So I figured this would be a spot where we won't be disturbed. Cool. So we can decide to edit it or not if they come downstairs. That could be that could make for a fun addition. to this podcast that has yet to be named and topics that have yet to be defined. Yes. So I reached out to you because, I don't know, you and I both have listened to podcasts, some of the same ones, we talk about it, and it seems like kind of a, it's a space that has increased in popularity, but one of the things that I've always, I've appreciated about some of the ones that we both listen to is when it seems like the people on the call are actually having a conversation where, you know, not only are they listening and learning from one another, but the audience is, or whoever's listening to the recording is learning from it too. Like it's like natural. And one of the things I've realized is almost every time I come to visit, we end up having a conversation about something that is of interest to me at least, hopefully to you too. And I was like, oh, it'd be kind of cool if the conversation was recorded. So that was kind of just the impetus of this. I posed it to you, what were some thoughts or questions that you had? actually, it was a wonder about what your orientation would be towards this. I, I assumed you were going to question me about something or bring up some topic and ⁓ Just to for us to air here my take on it and I was and I was trying to imagine what that might be but and And you know and that's kind of really where it was there was really no ⁓ It was a little, yeah, I I kind of had no idea. Well, and to be fair, I mean, I gave you like six lines and what you and I were talking about just before we hit record was that you're like, yeah, I was expecting to hear like, what are the details? What are the next steps? And like my hope actually for this first episode, which of what I hope to be, and I expect to be more than one is just like what, yeah, like a little to kind of. air out, like you said, some of the hopes for that each of us have for recording some conversations and actually maybe even taking a step, not necessarily back to the side, but to, you know, I shared my own experiences in conversations that we have that range from topics about politics and philosophy, ⁓ also to just like topics of like practical advice. And so, and you know, how how interesting it is for me, but also I think it'd be interesting to hear from you too, just like your relationships to conversations with, maybe even just concretely like with your kids, because it's kind of different talking with your kids versus a peer or versus a family member of like a different connection. So ⁓ I guess concretely, my question is in this moment, yeah, like what are your... What are your hopes for recording conversations with me? That it's interesting, interesting to both of us and perhaps even interesting to someone who might ⁓ kind of. check it out, which I can't imagine per se. But I think about how little I knew about my parents' history in many ways. And so there's a part of me that looks at this as a chance for you to perhaps check in with me when I'm, you know, bit of a memory and you're close to my age and in a position to kind of perhaps understand where I was coming from in a different way. Yeah, I mean, that definitely resonates with me. Like I expect to appreciate as I am in this moment, talking with you and learning with you and connecting with you in this moment. But I definitely also am hopeful about it being something that is worth re-listening to, whether it's just me and our family ⁓ or anyone else. So, cool. ⁓ So you mentioned just like this idea of knowing about your parents' history. I don't guess when you say history, what comes to mind for you? Well, particularly my father who is in the service, which, I mean, when I think about... ⁓ myself being in a position where I'm kind of uprooted from, you know, from my customary, from my comfortable existence in my early 20s and what that must be like, ⁓ you know, not only in a ⁓ you know, existential situation, but in a situation where, know, especially at that time, there was a lot of antisemitism. I'm sure he got his share of, ⁓ strife from that. I mean, just all of that, you know, and, ⁓ my understanding was that he didn't really want to talk about it, but I also just never really brought it up, ⁓ which is kind of a shame. you know, he lost siblings, you know, at that time. disease was more prevalent that couldn't be addressed. didn't have people with cardiovascular issues. They weren't as preventative ⁓ accidents. This is just what life was ⁓ for him growing up. ⁓ My mother, got a sense of it too, but... ⁓ She seemed to be more able to somewhat kind of go with the flow, stay out of crossfire. And that's how she seemed to live her life very effectively. ⁓ So in that respect, think though you... I mean, I don't think you have that blank spot in my history though, unless you have had questions that you thought of and didn't ask or didn't think of and now you said, maybe I shouldn't ask about this. Yeah, and I think that's kind of the part of the hope. I mean, I do think there's something, you when I think of your 20s, you know, if we're thinking about like understanding you better, just from like a timeline perspective, like I associate, your late teens and twenties with meeting mom, with finding your professional direction, but then also immersing yourself in some like intense spiritual explorations with Gurjeev and Tai Chi, both in my mind, like in the college space, but also outside of college. So these are some things that I'm sure there were questions I... wanted to ask and didn't and not definitely not from a place of, I don't think he wants to talk about it. Probably more just, just not thinking to ask slash just not paying attention to anyone else other than myself. ⁓ so actually I feel like I do have a good like timeline sense, but there, I'm sure there are topics and moments within it about a range of things that I just wasn't thoughtful enough to inquire about. ⁓ So actually maybe that's something we can do a little bit right now. there, and we don't have to like completely dive in to these moments, but are there some things from your backstory that you wish maybe you would have asked Papa Joe about his own? Some that might be relevant for you that you haven't shared with me? ⁓ Not necessarily. mean, he, one thing that I saw in him, which was a important lesson for me, was that He didn't avail himself to... ⁓ the life he could have had and probably would have preferred based upon his natural talents. So I mean, was, you know, he was a very smart man, you know, he had, you know. you know, in many ways meticulous. I think he could have easily have been an architect, kind of would have checked off all the boxes for him in many ways. ⁓ But I think there's a part of him that saw himself perhaps as an outsider or... Yeah, you know, that just not being an option for him. ⁓ And I saw how hard he worked and feeling that he really didn't like the work he was doing. So he kind of struggled doing something he didn't like because of the commitment he had towards his family and what he felt was right. And for me, it was a lesson that it's really important to find something that you like. And it took me a while to figure that out. I was actually, um... really in my mid-20s till I figured that out, that I have to kind of take that bull by the horns and own it or else I wasn't going to be... Or else I was kind of going down the same path he was. I appreciated that. I mean, I kind of looked at... mean, it's amazing because I feel that I made a very conscious decision about what I wanted to do based upon what I... what I thought I was capable of or reaching a little bit beyond my comfort level in terms of what I thought I was capable of. And it was a part of me that I'd also felt seeing what my father was going through, it's kind of what a, it's like, if you're able to just put out six years of school and get this piece of paper and the rest of your life is like handed to you kind of. in a very easy, you know, the people will pay you money, good money, you'll do what you want to do. I mean, it just seemed like such a gift. like he just didn't. And I saw that with, you know, other members of my family who could have done the same thing. They just allowed themselves to be sidetracked by things that were the past and things that were short lived. So that is something that I think connects, if I remember your question, connects my history with something that I saw in my father's history. I appreciate that. Go ahead. I was just, I was noting, I think at some point would love to hear more about, like in a future episode, maybe more about your transition. Just like what that was like in your twenties when you were a speech pathologist and you had studied to be a speech pathologist and that transition to being a chiropractor. I mean, I know the top lines, but definitely don't know like the moments that were hard and the things that you were grappling with. And also, you know, the thing that you just shared that you said you learned from your dad, you've definitely shared with me. I'm sure you've shared with Michael and Jess. I didn't know that it came from your dad. ⁓ even though maybe he didn't tell you directly, but something that you kind of indirectly learned from him. But that would be something that would be kind of neat just to, you know, if you were to distill some of like the key things that you you learned and just kind of how you came about learning them, that would be kind of fun. ⁓ I'd love to hear more about your relationship with your dad. Are there other things that you would be interested? or I don't know, or think would be valuable for me as a seven-year-old re-listening to this that we should touch on. I think that at different points in your life, ⁓ are both, there are external things that impact how you handle things. And I think, you know, as you age, ⁓ those external things aren't as prevalent. And you end up having a different perspective of what moved you when you were younger. and in a sense what's important now, you know, when you are 70. And I think hopefully you'll figure that out when you're 50 or 40. So, you know, in your 40s. I mean, you know, it's a question of... Yeah, understanding what drives you. ⁓ Understanding. ⁓ that we're not perfect. ⁓ that accepting that and trying to make life meaningful and staying on that path is... It's a good aim, a good goal. Cool. What's interesting, I was thinking about, we do have a lot of interesting discussions, you and I, but I feel that they usually, in a way, initiated by you. Or if I feel that something is going on in your life, and I kind of bring up the topic and you usually open about it, you know, you know, so, you know, whether we're, whether, you know, whether we feel I feel you have a political point of view that is not as informed as I feel it can be, ⁓ or your relationship to decisions you're making. fortunately, I don't need to get involved with decisions relating to your family and things like that, which wouldn't be a comfortable situation. for either of us. Not only because I'm airing something, but because that reflects, you know, you know, kind of a difficulty in life that you don't wish on anyone. Sure. But you know, you know, things that are not so you know, school job, philosophy about ⁓ education, which I don't know why you would listen to me, but you seem to at least patronize me sufficiently. ⁓ And then just talking about sharing interests we have in common relative to philosophy, psychology that we've gleaned. So a question I would ask you is why do you feel you got involved in, well, could kind of answer the same thing. Did you get involved in education by default? Like you really didn't know what you wanted to do and you just kind of fell into it and you said, all right, I might as well stick with this. And what also brought you into your interest with philosophy, psychology, which I think you've kind of distanced yourself a little bit from now. You're not, you know, I don't get the impression that you're, um, grew Jeffing it or Buddhism it it, or, you know, that type of thing. don't know if you meditate still. So kind of how So yeah, those are two very big different questions though. So there you go. The ball's in your court. Yeah, I'm interested in talking about my career decisions, especially in the context of like hearing more about yours. But I think a few things. think that, I think in education specifically, I've found through hard work, and openness and like a little bit of stubbornness and a little bit of wait and see, some things that have really motivated and inspired me in ways that I didn't necessarily expect. I think if I stayed in teaching for longer, think I would have, I may have been able to find some of that in the classroom too. ⁓ But I've definitely, I feel really good. about where I am right now. And I know that I didn't always feel really good about where I was. And in a nice way, like looking back on my path, I'm like, ⁓ yeah, like all of it kind of fit in. Like thinking about my moments as a young person that I felt most competent, most kind of energized was work, like teaching little kids how to swim, but also creating a culture on our, the swim team in Lake Isle where people felt motivated, connected, supported, like creating a good positive culture where essentially kids would work hard, adults would work hard, we'd be successful, but also we'd have a lot of fun. You know, and I think the counter, well, so that was true. I think something that I didn't necessarily do growing up and didn't do enough in my... 20s is like push push myself out of what I perceive to be my comfort zone. I think I did that when I traveled through South America in ways that I didn't expect but in terms of like a professional path or educational path. I think I was motivated mostly by this is interesting and I didn't think seriously enough about where it could go. ⁓ And so in being immersed in what. I find to be interesting and important work, that being school. I've found a path, a space, a sandbox to play, things that just, I'm like, oh yeah, this makes sense right now. This feels good. There are parts of me that seem like designed for this. And also looking back, I'm like, oh yeah, there was some dots and paths along the way that have led to here. So that's some things about that question. It's interesting how, I mean, when I speak to people or young people, but, or parents of people who are young and they, you know, they're starting college and there's such a, an inclination to want your child or to worry about your child finding this path, you know, this direction. For some reason, always, well, because I had no direction. I mean, that was the interesting, another, an interesting way that I was brought up. was like, I had no, ⁓ they didn't push me. They didn't, in many ways, they didn't support me in that arena. I think they supported, the foundation they gave me provided sufficient support, but it wasn't like they gave me advice about school or they made sure, you know, helped me with my homework or gave me a career advice or anything like that. So I think because of that and I saw the path, I saw how everyone kind of finds their direction. I mean, you almost fall into it. And... I mean, I remember choosing chiropractic because I was involved in Eastern studies and physical arts and all. I felt that when I say Eastern studies, like acupuncture, and I felt that chiropractic kind of was this legitimized expression of all of those things. Legitimized in terms of, I can get a license for it. ⁓ So kind of, and I had to work in order to really get it. When I think about with you, it's interesting, I could be totally wrong. You did have that history with coaching, which was really, I mean, that sounds like a real, I wonder if you felt that at the time or you felt that in retrospect. But that being said, I feel, and I can be totally wrong about this, that we teach America for you. I mean, first of all, it was a real feather in your cap. So I mean, and you like feathers in your cap. Yeah. And once you did that, then it kind of in a way, it almost kind of hooked you into teaching. Sure. Yeah. So, know, I think you could have done it. I mean, I always thought you might be an arbitrator or something or get into law, some kind of law or something. Which is what I'm doing, you know, in like a funny way, I'm especially a principal. Yeah. And that's and that's kind of like if I'm thinking about like the actual skills or the things that I've been, you know, been working on is like the communicating, the listening to multiple perspectives. ⁓ I mean, growing up, you definitely, you all were always encouraging and open to what we were into. And like you said earlier, like I do remember, you know, the way you would, you know, you know, you would, you would encourage reflection through conversation. Like it wasn't always. opening up, like, how are you feeling about this? But some, you know, sometimes it'd be questions like, you know, essentially, like, what's your evidence? Like, why? Why are you doing fill in the blank? Like, I remember very distinctly sitting on the stairs with you on, you know, 845 North Avenue right before going to South America. And you're like, you like you set something to the effect of like, you need to make sure you come back and don't do this. And it wasn't like you need to come back because we'll miss you, which I know that that was inherent to what you were saying. But it was more like you, you, you need to be careful, like not to just get lost and like make sure you have a path. And I remember in that moment, and I still kind of feel like this is part of me is like I did that trip. It was so calculated at the same time. I had a return date that was super concrete, you know? So like there was openness. but is within some really specific structures. And I just remember at that time, appreciating that you were gonna be honest and engage with me on that. But at the same time, I just remember chuckling to myself and I was like, man, I am not that person. Maybe I can turn into that person, but I am not even close to that person. That would be way too scary to go hundreds, almost thousands miles away without a plan. I couldn't do it. So, all right, so dad, I took some notes about some things that we're gonna talk about. I'm gonna share them with you. And then we don't have to choose the next topic for next episode, but here's some previewing things. One, I definitely wanna hear more about your 20s, like what it was like when you transitioned into your series of careers. ⁓ Love to hear more about just conversations and things you've learned from Papa Joe. ⁓ curious just to hear and understand your inspirations just like from other areas of life, right? Like you said, you didn't necessarily get the school support from family, but like where did some of your other inspirations come from? Excited to hear more about your life as like a sort of middle child, the fourth and sixth, like what that was like. ⁓ And on that note, just like relationships with your brothers. And of course, books and philosophy. So that's kind of at least on some things that I'm walking away wanting to hear more about. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, I think it's personal in respect to the fact that it might be interesting to some of the family at some time or not. yeah, that's fine. maybe just interesting for us. Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm right. So that's to me. That's like for us. We don't have to record it, but that's that's true. That is just well. I also at the same time, like, you know, what's nice is like when we do see each other, we like to go straight into conversation. But also there's something to be said about like a scheduled conversation. So sure. So look forward to doing that. So next Monday at four o'clock, we'll talk about one of those like a half hour thing. Probably. I see we did about a half an hour. I feel like, and then if we want to go longer, we can go longer. Okay. That's fine. I feel like making sure I'm available. No, no, that makes sense. And like, we can like build, you know, build momentum if it makes sense to go longer. Um, and quick thought, what's the name of this podcast for now? can change it. Hmm. That's an interesting father and son. Great. So it's going to be called father and son unless you come up with something else. And I would like you to, I find we have interesting conversations when you you bring something to the table and then I pick it apart and pursue it. Okay. that's how I looked at it. Well, at any point when we're talking, even though, cause I feel like you and I both have listened to podcasts where like the, the interviewer Whatever. Well, you know, this doesn't have to be right. It doesn't have to be an interview, although part of it is me wanting to learn more about you and your thoughts. But also we can learn about you and your thoughts through your interrogation of me. Right. Not interrogation, but you know what I mean? No, no, I definitely will be revealing myself in every way I respond to you. Cool. OK. All right. right. Well, then I love it. Love it. And I'll talk to you. Talk to you soon. OK. OK. Bye bye.