Latest / On Deathcare / Mental health, fraud legislation, and an ME's weird debt problem

Transcript

Mental health, fraud legislation, and an ME's weird debt problem · On Deathcare

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hi,
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Tony Russo from OnDeathCare,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: and this is The Rest,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: a roundup of funeral industry news for the week ending Friday,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: March 13,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: 2026.
• 0:18
  We've got a bunch of cool stories this week I'm going to go
• 0:20
  over and I'm going to
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: start with one of the stories that I published on my newsletter,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: On Death Care.
• 0:25
  If you've not subscribed to On Death Care,
• 0:27
  the newsletter,
• 0:28
  I'd love it if you did.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: It is free to subscribe and I send out stories as I finish them.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And as I report on them,
• 0:36
  I do have a special Sunday edition that I send out to paid
• 0:39
  subscribers with a
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: preview of what is in the week to come.
• 0:43
  But all of the rest of my stories and the podcasts are free
• 0:47
  because I want to have
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: a serious conversation about what's happening in death care.
• 0:54
  And that's only possible if everybody can have access to the
• 0:59
  same information.
• 1:01
  So the story this week was about funeral professionals,
• 1:06
  peer support,
• 1:07
  kind of.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about, is it about mental health?
• 1:13
  Maybe about mental health and maybe a little bit about the
• 1:17
  retention crisis.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I started by thinking about the phrase,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's dumb.
• 1:28
  I mean,
• 1:30
  I'm not a huge fan of aphorisms to begin with and dumb
• 1:33
  aphorisms.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely not a fan of.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: the person that said that,
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: never had to get up,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:41
  at four o'clock in the morning and go out in the snow and pick
• 1:45
  up a body at an
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: accident scene.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not the kind of thing that a person loves.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's probably a bad way to think about it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking with Michael,
• 2:02
  who has been working with funeral directors on mental health
• 2:06
  issues for decades.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, funeral professionals, peer support is, I think, a decade old.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: It might be a little bit older.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was informal first.
• 2:15
  And his concern is that increasingly people are leaving the
• 2:20
  industry after a decade.
• 2:23
  Now a decade is a long time to devote to something and then
• 2:28
  give up on it.
• 2:29
  And he suspects that it has to do with this disconnect between
• 2:37
  what funeral
• 2:38
  directors expect of themselves and what is expected of them by
• 2:44
  either their
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: employees or their peers or the people at large.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that he's got a point.
• 2:54
  You know,
• 2:55
  what his concern is,
• 2:56
  is that there is a lack of access to qualified therapists.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And for him,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: for them,
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: and I think for many people in the funeral service,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: qualified therapist doesn't mean,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: that they have a degree.
• 3:12
  But he is particularly interested in making sure that funeral
• 3:16
  directors have access
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: to people who are either
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: former funeral directors or people who are,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: in the,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: emergency medical service or were emergency responders.
• 3:30
  You know,
• 3:30
  he talks about his therapist is a former,
• 3:34
  you know,
• 3:34
  Ottawa detective.
• 3:36
  You know,
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  people who have these kind of careers that require more of them
• 3:45
  professionally than
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: more emotionally,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: professionally,
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: if you get my meaning,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: than normal,
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: quote,
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: unquote,
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  SPEAKER_00: jobs.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And he feels like this is an important aspect of
• 4:05
  of retention is is providing this kind of access and i i don't
• 4:08
  necessarily disagree
• 4:09
  with him and he doesn't know for sure that's why he's doing
• 4:12
  this survey so the
• 4:13
  funeral professional peer support folks have put out this
• 4:16
  survey there is a link in
• 4:17
  the show notes there's a link in the story and i'll probably
• 4:20
  just share random
• 4:21
  links on social media i've seen other people sharing the links
• 4:23
  on social media
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: They want to get a baseline to see if what they think is true.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's not true,
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  they want to see what is true because they recognize that the
• 4:35
  number of people who
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: are giving up after 10 years,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's too high.
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  SPEAKER_00: And
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  SPEAKER_00: I love what I do.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love what I do so much.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I would not say that I never worked a day in my life because of it.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think of it in terms of cost.
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  Like if you want to do this,
• 5:00
  you love doing this,
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  there is a price that you have to pay.
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  SPEAKER_00: to do what you love.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's a fact.
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  And I think that if you begrudge the price,
• 5:11
  then that's where you can get into trouble.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I am talking all the way out of school here,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I'd like you to at least think about this,
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  especially if you are a funeral director who's struggling with
• 5:24
  whether or not you
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: want to continue on
• 5:26
  in the profession or if you are just you know really you know
• 5:33
  fighting against
• 5:33
  burnout and maybe you are trapped in this kind of wheel of you
• 5:37
  know you never work
• 5:38
  a day in your life if you love what you do and maybe you feel
• 5:40
  like there's
• 5:40
  something the matter because you love with you what you do but
• 5:44
  you feel like you're
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  SPEAKER_00: working every day of your life um what i'd like to suggest is
• 5:52
  Is it possible that going to therapy is the price that you pay
• 5:58
  for getting to be a
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: funeral director,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: like taking that part seriously?
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  And one of the things that Michael also pointed out in the
• 6:11
  interview that we did
• 6:13
  with him is that he thinks that people are nervous about going
• 6:18
  to therapy in front
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  SPEAKER_00: of their bosses.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is,
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: for me,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's,
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  SPEAKER_00: it seems like,
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: it seems like an old school thing,
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  SPEAKER_00: but funeral directors are nothing,
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: if not kind of old school.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I don't, I don't understand it, but I get that it may happen.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so his, his hope is to be able to offer, you know,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: more private therapy.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not that therapy is not private,
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  SPEAKER_00: but as he points out,
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  if you work in a funeral home and there are five funeral
• 6:57
  directors and one of them
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  SPEAKER_00: has to go see the therapist at two o'clock every Thursday,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's not a good way to keep that
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  SPEAKER_00: To yourself,
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  SPEAKER_00: if it's something that you want to keep to yourself,
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's important anymore.
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  I'm not calling anybody out who's not comfortable sharing that
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  they go to therapy,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it feels like something that,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  we as a society really should be trying to be more comfortable
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  with for those of us
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  SPEAKER_00: that aren't.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I would just like to leave you with that.
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  I want you to think about whether or not it is the price,
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  whether therapy is the cost.
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  I wrote something that I felt was very clever in my story,
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  so I want to read it to you.
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  I said here that maybe being in therapy is the price of being a
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  funeral director,
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  SPEAKER_00: plain and simple.
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  Maybe the cost of getting to bear the burdens that you do is
• 7:56
  that you have to learn
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  SPEAKER_00: to share them.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to know what you think about this.
• 8:01
  And please feel free to email me if you don't want to comment
• 8:07
  publicly,
• 8:07
  which I understand.
• 8:09
  You can shoot me an email at bytonyrusso at gmail.com and I
• 8:13
  will get it and I will
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  SPEAKER_00: respond and I will keep it under my hat unless you want me to share it,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: which I'll also do.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's the rest.
• 8:23
  Before we get to the weekly rundown,
• 8:25
  I want to make sure you've listened to the last podcast.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're listening to this podcast.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: You probably listened to the last one.
• 8:31
  But there has been commentary upon commentary on the recent
• 8:37
  consumer disposition
• 8:39
  preferences survey that was published by Kena in conjunction
• 8:46
  with Wake Forest Law.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: the cremation paradox is something that we talked about last week,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: but there have been more insights provided by more people.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the reason for that is that they're reading the data.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just want to encourage you to do it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to encourage you to,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: check the link in the show notes and go and download this report.
• 9:08
  One of the fun things to do and genuinely fun things to do is
• 9:11
  to throw it into a
• 9:13
  um ai i'm not a i'm a gemini guy i really like gemini and i
• 9:17
  also really like
• 9:18
  notebook ml and i might have some news about that next week but
• 9:23
  for this week you
• 9:24
  throw it into gemini you can ask it all sorts of questions and
• 9:27
  it'll tell you what
• 9:27
  the report says you can get it to crunch numbers and re-crunch
• 9:31
  numbers and not just
• 9:33
  for sport although there i'm not gonna lie there's a there's a
• 9:36
  novelty to it at
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: first but
• 9:38
  But one of the things that eventually I think you can come to
• 9:42
  see is that what's
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: true nationwide might not be true for you specifically,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: but
• 9:50
  But what's true nationwide might give you insights to ways that
• 9:56
  you can improve
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: your own business or your own approach to helping families locally,
• 10:02
  even if your own jurisdiction doesn't necessarily jibe with
• 10:06
  everything that's in
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: there.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: There are new ways to think about questions in there.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that, I think, is the main value of this report.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the third week in a row I've mentioned the report.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: It will be the last week I mentioned the report.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to give everybody one last chance.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I want to welcome all my new listeners, by the way.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: We had a nice little bump last week.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been a pleasure to see you guys continue to find me.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: That makes me very happy and a little bit, you know, proud.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Earlier this week,
• 10:40
  I shared a story about what appears to be an incredible debt
• 10:45
  owed to the Milwaukee
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: County Medical Examiner by a combination of 18 funeral homes.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: The total bill is $1.3 million.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: One of those funeral homes owes $500,000,
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  SPEAKER_00: and the rest are broken up in increments of plus or minus,
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  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
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  SPEAKER_00: $25,000 each and sometimes a little bit more.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because of this debt,
• 11:09
  they have decided that if you owe the county medical examiner
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  more than $25,000,
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  you don't have credit with them anymore and you have to pay as
• 11:19
  you go until the
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: debt is paid off.
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  SPEAKER_00: These seem like big, weird numbers.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I called the medical examiner to look into it.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I spoke with a man named Tim Shabo.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And as it turns out, they weren't keeping records.
• 11:38
  of what was going on between the medical examiner and the
• 11:42
  funeral home after,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: before January 1st,
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  SPEAKER_00: 2020.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take everyone at their word.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: I find it very difficult to believe that in the 21st century,
• 11:57
  it didn't occur to anybody to establish computer records about
• 12:01
  what was going on in
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: the medical examiner's office as far as bills owed to them.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's something even weirder than what I found.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I found some weird stuff.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link to the whole story in the show notes.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to tell you what happened with the 1.3 million.
• 12:21
  But if you want to hear about the murders and betrayals and
• 12:25
  political intrigue and
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: racial overtones,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: you'll have to read the story in the in the show notes.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So as it turns out, um,
• 12:37
  It costs about $1,000 to have a cremation through the medical
• 12:46
  examiner's office.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: It costs almost $400 for the cremation permit, which everybody needs.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it costs about $200 for the death certificate, $168 and change.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you need transport, that's another 250.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you need, I'm sorry, if you need transport, it's 168.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you need a specialized body bag, that's 250.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you can run up a bill very, very, very quickly.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a small Senate call for an investigation.
• 13:22
  And there may still be one,
• 13:24
  but I don't know if it's going to be necessary anymore.
• 13:26
  And what the local legislature was looking for was what was
• 13:32
  happening to this
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: money,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: because these are cash advances.
• 13:35
  You know,
• 13:35
  these aren't like,
• 13:36
  well,
• 13:36
  they're waiting for the bill to get paid.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why the coroner isn't getting paid.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are upfront expenses that
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: one would imagine.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so before they really got a big investigation underway,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: one of the local funeral directors stepped up and said,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: most of the money that I owe,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: he didn't say me.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take that back.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was the impression I got.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: What he said was many people
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: who have not paid the coroner yet are waiting to get paid by the state.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: So when someone is impoverished,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: they can apply through the funeral director to the state for relief.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if the state approves it,
• 14:24
  they send the funeral directors the money and the funeral
• 14:28
  directors then pay their
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: bill.
• 14:31
  And one of the other funeral directors pointed out that when
• 14:36
  you're talking about
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: at a minimum $600,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: $550 per cremation,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: you can get to $25,000 pretty quickly.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I mentioned 2020.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: During COVID,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: you can get to $25,000 very,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: very,
• 14:45
  very quickly when you're doing the kind of work that was being
• 14:47
  done for those two
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: years,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: 18 months,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: whatever we're going to call that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the short version of the story is that there's no real malfeasance,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: although I'm wondering if...
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this is speculation.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is speculation.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is speculation.
• 15:20
  But I'm wondering if people maybe applied to the state for
• 15:25
  relief because they were
• 15:27
  impoverished and maybe the state declined them and they still
• 15:31
  didn't have the money
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: for the cremation,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: but the cremation is already done and the permit has already been issued.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if that's what happened to the records from before 2020.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever something weird like that happens,
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: it's not untoward to let your mind go a little conspiratorial.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But hopefully more information will come out.
• 15:55
  I'll keep my eyes out and see if there's anything else to be
• 16:00
  learned from this story.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: But please read the feature that I wrote.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link in the show notes.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of not paying your bills,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: or maybe I guess this is not getting your bills paid,
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: a Connecticut state representative,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: her name is Tammy Nuccio,
• 16:16
  has introduced a bill that will establish a funeral service
• 16:20
  compensation account to
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: aid victims of funeral care fraud.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is on the heels of they had a major scandal.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
• 16:31
  At this point,
• 16:31
  we're running out of states that haven't had major fraud
• 16:36
  scandals recently.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was being obnoxious when I posted this earlier.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I called it too sleazy to fail.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Weird to think of,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: what should be a pretty well-regulated,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: insurance aspect of the industry that is very easy to beat,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know.
• 17:02
  And so I put it out there and maybe you're one of the people
• 17:05
  who responded.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that you are asking, you know, what everybody thought of this.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this isn't uncommon.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know that it's not uncommon, now you do.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was told that in Wisconsin, for example...
• 17:20
  Although the medical examiner might not know for sure where the
• 17:24
  money is.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But in Wisconsin, they have a very similar program.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they fund it with fines and with other fees that would cover fraud.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a sin.
• 17:44
  It's a sin that this is the kind of thing that's necessary for
• 17:48
  this kind of industry.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: bad actors are everywhere.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, there's a link to that story in the show notes.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: The Return Home documentary,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: which is called The Life We Leave,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: has been picked up for distribution.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: It will premiere.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: It will be shown at South by Southwest.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's out already or not.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm not sure if it's like the quote premiere or not.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I am a huge fan of Natural Organic Reduction.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I say it pretty much every time I bring it up.
• 18:20
  I think that it does more to promote the idea of choice than it
• 18:24
  does to make people
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: actually have natural organic reduction.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: It remains a novelty thing.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it remains something that's very, very difficult to access.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: In the consumer preference report that I referenced earlier,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: it's like 2% of respondents were even listed it as number one.
• 18:47
  And people who didn't list it as number one listed it way far
• 18:51
  down the list.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: it is new and it is scary and it is confusing,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: but it is great for green burial in general because it makes people...
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that we talked about already,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 19:04
  last week was that people conflate all forms of not in a casket
• 19:12
  with a priest in
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: the ground.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else seems like green burial to them.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: as an industry,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: certainly there's an education gap that needs to be addressed.
• 19:24
  But I'm excited for the documentary,
• 19:28
  and I hope it does well,
• 19:30
  and I wish them well with the art.
• 19:34
  There is another NOR story,
• 19:36
  which is not nearly as happy,
• 19:38
  and it's also a little baffling.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: There is a place in California, San Joaquin Valley, I think,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: where,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: the San Joaquin River,
• 19:50
  where Earth Funerals has been putting human compost as part of
• 19:57
  a restoration
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: effort.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And people are furious.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily blame them.
• 20:08
  I don't have any patience for the for people who are afraid of
• 20:14
  like chemical
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: poisoning and stuff like that.
• 20:16
  I actually had the privilege of just getting a little note from
• 20:21
  someone who knows
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: about this thing.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like the poison is not the problem.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is that it's not legal yet in California.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it raises the question if
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: it's not legal to have it done in California,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: but does that mean it's not legal to spread the compost?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And cause this is really kind of the, the, a thing unto itself.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is not, you know, pulverized bone.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is dirt that used to be people.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what makes it illegal.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's illegal to be human composted,
• 21:08
  but I don't know if that – I don't know if – I wonder if you
• 21:11
  need to expressly say
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: it is illegal to spread human compost on –
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: public land.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: it is clearly what I,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: what I said in,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: what I said in,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: in my reporting on it is what I wonder is like,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: all right,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: so what's the ticket say,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: When,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: whenever somebody says something's illegal,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: what do you write on the ticket?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it really, um,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: mishandling, body mishandling.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a body mishandling case?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: If it is a body mishandling case,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: then why did they just say,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: stop,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: please,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: instead of putting people in jail or issuing fines or things like that?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So this is an area that's too grayish.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this muddies the waters a little bit.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I've reached out.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll reach out again.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: This week was a little nutty.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't check everything off my list.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this was on my list.
• 22:08
  But once I did that Milwaukee thing,
• 22:10
  I frankly was all the way out of gas.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I've got some great stuff coming up next week.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully I'll get to add this story to it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that will do me kind of for this week.
• 22:25
  I would like to announce that I have opened another section of
• 22:30
  the newsletter.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am calling it the doula desk.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like to talk to death doulas.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I like to write stories about them.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: end of life doulas.
• 22:39
  I like to use it interchangeably because it's one of those
• 22:41
  things that some people
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: like one,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: some people like the other.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a strong preference.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are a funeral director,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: if you're in the funeral industry,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: it is worth knowing,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: about what is going on with the end of life doula movement and
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: some of the things they're doing.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I read a fantastic book written by a death doula this week.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have my review of that out next week.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's also going to be on the doula desk.
• 23:12
  uh section of the website the reason i call it a section is you
• 23:15
  can subscribe to it
• 23:16
  and you'll get all the stories but i'm not going to send you
• 23:19
  guys all the stories
• 23:20
  because in my experience sometimes people get a little head up
• 23:24
  about getting a
• 23:25
  doula report in a funeral industry um newsletter and i don't
• 23:29
  want to alienate
• 23:30
  anybody so if you want to get both newsletters you can if you
• 23:33
  want to just get one
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: you can they are still free
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so there is a link to that story in the show notes.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that'll do me for this week.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe wherever you're listening.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: if you've not subscribed to On Death Care,
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: it's something I would really like you to consider.
• 23:50
  And I'd like to save this to the end because I don't want to
• 23:52
  make this too
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: commercially,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: but this also is my job.
• 23:56
  One of the prices of doing my job is I have to occasionally ask
• 24:00
  for money.
• 24:00
  So if you would like to subscribe and have a paid subscription,
• 24:05
  I would genuinely appreciate it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: We have two levels of support.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're not really good.
• 24:14
  hardcore differentiated but if you are a funeral professional
• 24:20
  and you get value out
• 24:21
  of this I think it would be cool if you decided to pay for it I
• 24:25
  know that there are
• 24:26
  a lot of funeral directors who just don't have the whatever
• 24:30
  it's like $100 $96 a
• 24:32
  year or something who don't have it to spend and I don't want
• 24:37
  to ask that of them
• 24:38
  but if you do have it and you do find yourself reading this and
• 24:41
  you do find
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: yourself getting you know
• 24:44
  entertainment or knowledge if you like getting it and you have
• 24:49
  the $100 lying
• 24:50
  around I would love to get some material support from you and
• 24:54
  thank you so much to
• 24:56
  all of you who have already chipped in I genuinely appreciate
• 25:02
  it it gets me up in
• 25:03
  the morning and that will do me for this week and I will see
• 25:09
  you next time with the
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: rest