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How Courtney Claghorn Turned a Side Hustle Into a National Beauty Brand · The Mami Collective

• Paulina: Welcome to the Mommy Collective. I'm Paulina Rowe, radio host, TV contributor, writer, and mom of one. This is where ambitious moms come to keep their identity intact while navigating motherhood. Here we talk about the real stuff: career, money, relationships, identity, and everything that gets messy in between. You won't find sugarcoating or cliches. What you will find are unfiltered conversations, real resources, and proof that you don't have to lose yourself to be a good mom. The Mommy Collective is here to remind you you can be ambitious, you can take up space, and you can thrive in motherhood and in everything else that makes you you. Before we get into the episode, make sure you're following the Mommy Collective on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. And share this podcast with a mommy in your life who needs a little inspiration or just a reminder that she's killing it. Also, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter and leave us a review so We can keep showing up and reach every ambitious mom out there doing big things. Let's get into it. All right, mommy collective, another episode. We are back, and I am so excited today. I am chatting with Courtney Claghorn. Did I say your last name right? Please say yes. Yeah, you did. Amazing, yes. So CEO and founder of Sugar and Bronzed, and I I'm so excited to talk to you. I was telling you off the air, I'm like, I'm not a beauty kind of lady, but one thing I know is a spray tan, so. I'm so excited to talk to you. How are you? Great. How are you doing? I'm good. Thank you for coming on today. ⁓ you also revealed to me that you are a former like Chicago girl like me, which I think is so cool. So I love it. Yeah. Do you miss it? Born there and I lived there till I was nine. I love it. Do you miss it? Be honest. I mean, you guys you were young, but like, do you miss it here? Or like, nah. Well, yeah. I was ⁓ yeah, I was young when I moved, but also my mom's whole side of the family still lives there. So I've been back like so many times. So I still, you know, feel like I know it. It's not like I left at nine and never went back. But no, I mean, I think Chicago is a great city. I think it's so livable. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love New York too. But like Chicago's just so much more feasible in so many ways, especially if you have kids. Like you can have a car, you cannot have a car. Like it's not like your road is decided for you like it is in LA or New York. Like you need like New York, don't bring a car. LA, you need one. You know, Chicago's like whatever you want to make of it. So yeah, and I think It's an amazing city. The winters are harsh, but the summers people tend to make up for it. And having a a beach right in the middle of the city is so great. So no, I have a lot of good things to say about Chicago. I love it. You gotta come visit us one day. You gotta come to I do, I do. I'm at yes, I'm over here at the railroad station, not too far from kind of where you were too by South Loop. So I love it. You're very, very connected in the Chicago scene. So that that's awesome. So first things first, Courtney, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, about your family, kind of like set the scene of who's Courtney and what do we need to know about you? Yeah. I mean, so after I lived in Chicago, I moved to Orange County, lived there till I was then 18, went to school in Boulder, Colorado, where I met my co-founder, at the time boyfriend, now husband. We have lived in Santa Monica together for far too many years. I feel like I aged myself when I say this, but I've been in Santa Monica for God, I think ⁓ 16 years now, which is crazy. So longer than any other place I've lived. And we have a two almost three year old little boy and another baby on the way coming in September. And yeah, I mean, yeah, we run our thank you. We run our business together. And that's sort of me in a nutshell. I love it. I love it. And so, okay, so mom of a three year old, love it. mom to be again. We're having our second baby. And our third baby essentially, or maybe maybe it's your first baby. Sugar. I think my first. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe I have four then because I didn't even bring up the dog, you know. She I always say she's my first baby, but it was probably really sugared and bronze. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, no, you are you're one busy mom. Absolutely. So tell us about starting sugar and bronze, but also, you know, with your Boyfriend at the time, now husband. I mean, that I feel like is such an amazing story because you hear about it both ways, right? It went really bad or it went really great. And like that's life in my opinion. Hot take, I know. I'm like, things are gonna go really bad or really good no matter what you do. But what sort of kind of sparked this for you to create it, right? And then to kind of have him be a co founder, come on board. Where did this idea originate and like kind of how did that happen? So after I graduated college, I was working in fintech in Santa Monica. And I was a very broke recent college grad. And this is, you know, 2009, you know, obviously in the thick of the recession for anyone old enough to remember. And but I still wanted to get spray tans for some things. Like I had gotten them a decent amount in college. And, you know, I had a I was a bridesmaid in a wedding. I had another wedding to go to in like Florida, a bachelor party, something like that. And I realized my first summer sitting in an office and not having any outside time, like I was really extremely pale. And so it was definitely something I needed to find the money to go do. But I really wasn't prepared to pay the prices that Santa Monica was asking fifteen, seven years ago. It was really crazy. I mean, but even back then, like I don't know whether it would be adjusted for inflation, but like the nearest one to me was like $115. And then What? There was like Yeah, there was a couple other options. There was one in like a gross like tanning salon where they had like beds and some like very straight man, like older straight man, wanted to spray me. And like I'm like, I like to get a spray tan like naked. You know what I mean? Like maybe if he wasn't so he was like gay or something, I would have been we're fine with it. But like yeah, he came off as very straight and like it would just was like very unsettling. ⁓ yeah, so it was like one thing led to another and I just sort of complained to Sam. I'll just use his name for the ease of things and I think At some point he just got sick of hearing me complain. It was like, why didn't we just start this business? And was like, That would be insane. I don't know how to spray tan anybody. I have a full-time job. Like, I don't have any extra spending money. Where would I even lease a space? Like, no one's gonna let me sign a commercial lease. And so we're like, Well, maybe if we like test it out in the apartment, you know, he was like, I know how to build a website, you can figure out, you know, how to spray, you know, we'll figure it out. And so we decided, you know, for Five hundred dollars each, total of a thousand dollars. We could really get it off the ground and I could at the very least spray tan some friends or see if anyone came to our apartment like after work or like on a lunch break, because I both lived and worked in Santa Monica, thankfully. We toyed around with the idea of doing mobile, but with like LA traffic and my full time job, that really wasn't an option. It was like, well, I could see like one client, you know? Right. So we're like, yeah, let's see if people will come to the apartment, which was like a wild idea. But people did. And so We I think put up a website November first, twenty ten. And by January 2011, I quit my job and we started to look for like a real space in Santa Monica because it obviously long term, this business could not be in our apartment. And by Memorial Day 2011, we had like found a space, lease negotiations, did a very cheap build-out with like cash that we had saved up in the closet from clients. And I don't even think we pulled a construction permit. We had no idea what we were doing. But Nonetheless, we got the first at the time it was just bronzed. We got bronzed open and operating on a very quaint street in Santa Monica, which our Santa Monica's location is still on that street. Still, it's not in the OG location. We obviously expanded and the brand has grown, but that was sort of where it all started. And it was like just we were able to find this spot upstairs behind a tree that had reasonable rent because it was, you know, early 2011 and make it work. When usually, you know, rents on Montana Avenue are extremely expensive in Santa Monica. But I was just like dead set on the location of where we were gonna be. As I am now, as we're approaching 50 stores, I'm still very particular and have lots of real estate debates with many people on our team on location. But to me, it's just a non-negotiable. And I like there to be parking and like to feel safe and all these things. And so that is where I wanted our first store to be. And I'm so thankful. That I got intuition led us the right way because, you know, it was really like where all of our success started. Absolutely. I love how committed you were too to like location. I feel like sometimes people don't understand that. And that's full transparency. It's why I didn't really reopen like my spray tan salon. Cause I was like, I don't really have, I don't want to go back to my old location. That was a big one for me, right? Like you said, and it's so like maybe like tedious or small to other people, but I'm like, Parking, this, how accessible, you know, and I think about that. And I'm I'm happy that I did. So I feel like that's very important. I love your commitment to that. I love Santa Monica too, by the It's such a great area. So that is so cool. So obviously sugar and bronze, you're nationally recognized. You mentioned 50 stores now. Just about. Yeah. 49 and 50 are just about to open. Okay, well, that's incredible. First of all, that's amazing. Congratulations. I'm curious though, like what do people not really understand about what that took for you, like kind of both emotionally and mentally? You know, I know this is like if what maybe I can't even count this point. What 15 years you're making? Yeah. Yeah. Like 15 plus. Yeah. So what do people like not understand when it comes to that? Like mental, emotional? I mean, thankfully I was so young where I I don't know. I was a little probably, I mean, ignorance is bliss. I think I was probably a little delusional just thinking. Not that it would be easy or that I wouldn't have to put in a lot of work, but that I was like for sure gonna be a it was for sure gonna be a success. Like there was no doubt in my mind once I decided to leave my job that this was gonna be a success. And I I never really thought about how many stores are when. I just knew that like the ceiling was sort of the limit and we could keep pushing it and keep growing. But yeah, I mean, it took I mean, there was a lot of years where we didn't pay ourselves a lot of money. We went on vacations on our Amex points, which I still love to do I mean I highly recommend that. Yeah, but in like, you know, in your twenties, hopefully, you know, if you have the right sort of group of friends, like a lot of people are working hard and putting it all out there, you know, to set up for their future. So I think that we were really fortunate that it was like we didn't have kids, you know, we didn't have a ton of like life expenditures. Like it was it was we were all in and it took everything we had. But I also don't feel like you missed out on my twenties because I kind of feel like that's really what your twenties should be all about is yes, find time obviously for community and social events and whatnot and your friends, but I think it really it should be about working hard. So for us, it was just literal blood, sweat, and tears went into this business, especially the first nine years that we bootstrapped. And even when we did, you know, ultimately decide to raise money and just to be able to grow faster in tw late twenty nineteen, we closed our first and really only deal, even when We had money on the balance sheet didn't mean that we weren't putting blood, sweat, and tears into it. It was just like with a little bit of like reassurance that, you know, we were you know, all of our eggs were not as much in one basket because we did sell a piece of the business and we did buy a house and things changed a little bit at that point. But, you know, for nine years it felt like everything was in one basket and it was extremely risky. I mean, if COVID had hit a year sooner. I'd be in a much different place right now. Like, you know, but I look back and I didn't think about those things. I didn't think about what if it all goes to shit. I was just like, it's gonna be successful. So yeah. I love that. You gotta believe in yourself. It's important. So now when it comes to spray tanning, I'm curious though, did you kind of just teach yourself how to do it? Like what were the early days like for you? Were you like practicing on friends, your husband? Like, you know what I mean? Like, was it kinda like that? Yeah. Yeah, like I mean there were I I think about how long ago it was and like Instagram didn't exist and all these things, but YouTube did exist, right? Fifteen years ago. And so yeah, I used some YouTube videos and definitely I didn't have that many friends in Santa Monica upon graduation. I had like a handful. So it was just like whoever I knew from college that was like living here, any friends I made at work, like I recruited anyone I could. And yes, Sam begrudgingly, he doesn't you know, he's just funny. He's such a guy's guy. He doesn't like really care to get tanned or anything like that. But like I would need his body, honestly, because I just didn't know that many people here yet. And so yeah, I really just it was trial and error. The most important thing to me was that I got to see the person the next day and see what their tan looked like because when you're doing it in the moment, it can be fine. We it's really about how it turns out. So, you know, that was sort of just early days and I figured out a method that I just wanted to keep repeating. And that's sort of like where our original training program was built from. But really it was just yeah, me experimenting on people. But say you did what you had to do. I was the same way. Yeah. And I honestly I'm still probably experimenting growth. That's where I'm at sometimes. I'm like, ⁓ I want to try a new method or whatever. You know what I mean? I think it's so important to do that. Cause I almost feel like that's almost a part of growth too, right? Like like anything, new trends. Like think about our makeup back like in 20 whatever, like 15, 2010 to today. Like, you know, I'm just trying to think of like other beauty trends or just any kind of trends that come in a style, out of style. So is that like kind of how you keep up with the industry? Like what would be like your number one tip for any spray tan artist or any business owner in the beauty field? Yeah, I mean, you have to like listen to your clients and hear what they're talking about. We do, as much as like we don't change how we spray tan people because the training program is a training program. And like I don't think there's a lot of like trends in terms of like, yes, some people want to be darker or lighter, but like that's done in their solution choice that they choose really. The actual like process of how you tan them doesn't need to change. But as we always try to improve, you know, the solution that we manufacture, our resale products that we manufacture. Like we really need to stay in touch with like what clients want, what they're talking about and also what other brands are doing. I think it's a lot easier these days to sort of stay in touch with the entire country or we even world with like things like TikTok. Like, you know, i I things also travel very quickly and change very quickly. But fortunately it's not fashion or makeup where like the trends change incredibly fast, you know? It is more or less like you kind of look, you know, you look good with a tan of a certain maximum and sugaring is pretty straightforward. So I don't feel like there's like, you know, every season we're on edge or anything like that. But yeah, I definitely try to stay in touch with what's going on in the world, you know? Absolutely. I agree. And what about as far as expanding into other markets or like I guess territory, right? I'm thinking there's other regions. What or which one has been do you feel like maybe the most difficult to kind of like get started, right? Like I'm assuming you're probably boots on the ground when you go to the locations throughout the country, when you're like scouting out maybe where where you're gonna open up or like demographic, right? Who's here, who's there? Like, what has been like the hardest part do you feel when it comes to that? I mean, there's so many. like factors that go into choosing a new market and like how to you know how it all comes to be. But yeah, I mean it starts with, you know, what do the demographics look like? Density is so important for us, you know, like New York City obviously is our top market for a very obvious reason, you know. But they all have their own challenges. It's like New York City feels like a slam dung in terms of like being successful, but rents are extremely high, you know, and leases are long, the terms are longer. All these things. And now that we're more established of a brand, it's very different. But like when we tried to get our first New York lease, like it was kind of a daunting process and a lot of landlords like didn't want to deal with us and where we just couldn't afford the spaces we wanted. So the challenges change over time with how big we are as a business too. But I mean, even now we're in several markets in Texas and DC and Florida and things like that. And every market is a learning experience. Like it could be permitting that's really hard in that city and we we're just we didn't expect that. It could be, you know, really understanding. Had a market there. It could be, well, we love the market, but parking's a problem everywhere in this city. You know, there's always challenges. So it just you know, we actually we never know what we're gonna be dealing with in a new market. So, you know, I'd say s you know, New York is it's its own beast. Like we never have to worry about parking. But there's like a million other things in New York City that we have to think about. So, you know, they've all been challenging in their own ways, but It's always really exciting going into a new market. It's always really exciting to choose it choosing a new market and just like becoming a national brand at this point. You know, at this point we have a lot of cities that are waiting for us to come, which is really exciting. I love that. ⁓ that is so cool. Are you in you are in Chicago, right? I think you might be. Not yet. We're negotiating a couple of leases. Yeah. So we're targeting Gold Coast, Lakeview, West Loop, and Lincoln Park. I love it. ⁓ that is so cool. I gotta tell my girlies. Because I don't live over there. So I'm just like, you can come to me, but I'm I'm far out. You'll be sitting in traffic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love that. That is so cool. So then okay, becoming a mom, you have a three year old, so we're gonna give or take 2023. You had ⁓ Mm-hmm. Okay. Becoming a mom, right? So now how did that not only like shift just like, you know, who you were, who Courtney was as a business owner, but How did that shift you just like as a person? Like when it comes to like, okay, I'm having a baby, right? And like a lot a lot of us moms, entrepreneurs, like that's something I feel like we go through when we come mom, we're like birthing a new part of us. And I'm curious, what kind of was your experience, right? When you had your son, you're running multiple locations, like things are happening. How did that look like for you at that time? It was really overwhelming when I went back to work because suddenly mm what free time you used to have is not really there. And I wanna be like really honest. Like I have a lot of help and a support system. I definitely don't do this on my own. And there's ways that I've have found to carve out time for myself because to me, just going from work to parenting and like not having any time the day to like work out or that doesn't work for me. Like I wouldn't be a good mom. I wouldn't be a good coworker. So I we have a really great support system. And I definitely don't do this alone. But even with that, it was still really overwhelming going back to work. Like maternity leave is one thing 'cause did some work stuff when, you know, I felt up to it. I was recovering from a C section. So not like immediately, but you know, I would go to like news store openings if they were somewhat local or I could sit in on real estate meeting and things like that when they really needed my opinion. But yeah, I mean it was Going back to work full time was the biggest shift, I would say. And is still something that I have to figure out how to build. I think anybody who works and has kids needs to figure that out. You know, even for anyone who's a stay-at-home mom, the transition to having kids is so different. Like you just like, where is your free time? It doesn't exist. And like it's funny now having an almost three year old when like he will like play by himself while we're like getting dinner ready, something like that, or we're packing on a vacation to like go to the airport, whatever. Like we can have him in eyesight and he can entertain himself, but for so long that's not the case. You know, when they're like one and they're mobile, but they can't you can't I don't love a lot of screen time, but you can't just like put something on for them in a pinch. They don't care to watch it. They're not gonna play with their own toys by themselves. Like they really need to be watched and entertained constantly. And that time was really hard. And now I'm like, ⁓ here we are, ready to do it all over again. Which we just got to a point with the first one that I feel like he is like a little self sufficient now. So yeah, I don't know. It's an ongoing challenge. And I don't know how people I see people like Emma Greed, who is like, who have she has four kids and she runs so many businesses. And I'm like, there must be a way. But she also says the same thing, like a lot of support. You know, and you can't do everything. I'm not class mom at the preschool and I'll probably never be class mom. And that's okay. I love that you said that. You're like giving permission to a lot of moms, I think, that are listening or who struggle with that because we tend to feel alone, or sometimes we're like, ⁓ I'm a shit mom because, like you said, I didn't go to the preschool, whatever, pretzel handout, whatever. Cause like I love the school stuff. My kid is too. She just started like this little school thing a couple days later. It's cute though. It's a co-working space. So like I get to go and like work there. It's really cute. I'm like, great concept, love this. And I look at it though and I'm like, okay, so like not just with her school, but other schools, I'm like, ⁓ we get a little creative every day. It's something new and it's like everything's needed all the time. And like, do I love that? Yes, wonderful, great. Am I going to be at every single thing slash moment slash whatever? Probably not. But that's like being honest. And like also like you said, kind of accepting it. And I think every mom, like you said, doesn't matter what kind of mom you are, like. It's you need the support and it's a lot, you know? I didn't know that going into motherhood. I thought I'd put the TV on like not like that, but I like, Well, I'll put the T V on for like two hours. Yeah, okay. They're right behind me. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's crazy. Like it's wild that no one's prepared for it yet, like ⁓ so much of the world just does it. We just throw ourselves in and we just like figure it out. A hundred percent. So has anything changed for you as far as like how you run your business or just Really anything business related, has that changed for you since becoming a mom? Do you think like you've shifted mentality wise? ⁓ probably a little bit, but I mean it was probably expected. My husband and I waited a long time to have kids. We've been together since we were twenty one and I had our first got pregnant at thirty-five, had him at thirty-six, like very, very consciously waited because I kind of knew, you know. that even though I didn't know everything about parenthood, I had the assumption that it would take up a lot of time. Yeah. And so I definitely waited until we had like a really good corporate team in place, that our business was in a place where like I didn't feel like, you know, Sam and I were doing ⁓ so many jobs and wearing so many hats. Like we had some people, you know, who were really experienced and trained up in the business and really take on departments. So we waited until that happened. And I mean, I think the biggest shift is like, And it happened just as the business grew too is like I can't be there for everything. And I used to be just such a control freak where I needed to have my hands in everything and really like doing everything. And now there's just this acceptance, like the size, the sheer size of the business, but also, you know, being a parent, like I can't do that all the time. Like I used to be able to work until nine o'clock and have dinner then. Like that doesn't I can't do that anymore. I mean, ⁓ obviously if there's like something major that comes up, I could figure out a way to do it, but I can't do that. every night 'cause I would just not be a present parent. So yeah, that's changed. I need to figure out how to really like manage my time and delegate, which I think I've d I figured out a lot more at this point, but it was really challenging at the beginning. Like I didn't Yeah. Delegating was probably one of my least favorite things. ⁓ I'm sure. And now it's kind of more, I don't know, acceptable way of life. Right, right. Yeah. Like now I'm there's so many the business is so much bigger than it once was. And so Yeah, I mean I have to delegate. There's no way we get anything done. But it's it's actually really nice and refreshing because anything that used to come up was like felt like it was on my to do list, like or Sam's, but it was like, okay, who's gonna handle it? And now it's like we just have so many more people that can, you know, handle it, which is like really actually refreshing. I love that. And like what about Tips or just how do you sort of manage everything as far as like outsourcing, right? A lot of moms love asking whether it's like me, the podcast, like they're always curious, like, okay, like what do you use on like a daily basis that helps you? Like, I I'm a DoorDash girl, like my groceries come from there because I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna pack up the kid, we're not going to jewel's, like, we're not doing all that. No. So I'm like, okay, this is like stuff that I use, right? And like, yes, I have a babysitter, I have a couple babysitters. I've kind of built that little village throughout the time, right? If we're not at GG school, we're I'm upstairs like right now and she's with a babysitter. So I like to kind of tell mom that these are some of my tips, right? Like whether they help you or not, that's what I do. What are some of yours that you use like as far as like outsourcing from groceries to like anything else? Yeah. I mean h s so many things. Again, like I always say I have like a big support system. Like starting from when he was born, we had a night nurse, like For me, I had like a horrible C section experience. I absolutely needed support in my recovery. That was just so important to me. And I know that they're very expensive, but it was just something that for me was like a non negotiable. I knew I needed that support from the beginning. And again, really waited a long time to have kids until that felt like something I could have the support that I needed. But and yeah, post talk about DoorDash post weights. Yeah. I really don't cook a lot. Barely at all. I I Postmates or DoorDash thing is more than I would ever like to admit. Also, Instacart, I never go to a grocery store. I I don't know how our parents from a generation back did that. Like I know. I know. I think about that. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. So I don't go to a grocery store. I also we have an au pair who lives with us. We also have a part time nanny as well. So we have two people that like our son really knows that we can depend on, you know, for different times of day or week. We also have some grandparents l that live nearby that love to come see him. We have two sets of divorced parents. There's a lot of grandparents actually that like to come by, which is great. The more the merrier. And yeah, I mean, I even have help either the OPA the nanny on weekend mornings. And that's where I find a lot of the time to myself where I really need to go get my nails done or I really want to go to this workout, whatever. Like that I feel like doesn't fit into the week. It's just for a few hours on the weekend mornings, but it makes for my husband and I it just makes all the difference. Like we're not mourning people at all. I wish we were, but it's just not our chronotype. It's not our genetics, and that's never gonna change. And for us, like I I didn't wanna see our mornings where like our kid was sitting in our bed watching TV because neither of us wanted to get up and then one we're both fighting for our time and who wanna you know, and it's just like For us, that's what works is to have a few hours of help on the weekend. So I'm yeah, I have a lot of help and I'm really transparent about it because that's just you know what works for our family. Yeah, a hundred percent. I ⁓ I always say that. I'm like, do it works for you, but I'm the same way. ⁓ I love it. That can be other moms like totally judge me, you know, and they're like, Well, you know, then when do you see your kids? And then like we are with our kid every single night. Occasionally we'll have a work thing in the evening, and then on weekends, yeah, sometimes on a Saturday night we go out or something for our friends party or a date night or something like that. But pretty much a weekend from afternoon on is our time with him. And that's just again, like I need to be a happy parent who doesn't resent my child, who doesn't isn't exhausted and has a short temper. So I feel like I really make the most of our time with him instead of sort of resenting that, you know, we have like I need more of my own time. A hundred percent agreeing. I mean like if you didn't and I'm gonna be somewhat transparent too, like If we didn't take the time to ourselves, because like, yes, like we're working or whatever it might be, right? That's not like Courtney's time. You get what I'm trying to say? It's like that's not like I'm not like choosing to do that. Of course I'm choosing it, but I'm not like it's not nails or hair or just something that like fills my cup for that moment. That moment can only be like an hour. We're not talking like you're gone from like nine to nine on a Saturday. That's what bugs me. It's like, yeah, I so if I take an hour to myself on a Saturday tomorrow, whatever, like Why am I not like able to to do that? Like why is that not okay? And I never understood that. It really hurts. It really grinds my ears. I'm sorry. And I think that moms get a lot more judgment than dads do. Like if they want to go golfing on a Saturday morning, that's like perfectly acceptable. Of course. You know, but if like honestly, like and I'm pregnant right now. I have a lot more needs. Like I need to like I go to stretch lab like once a week. I try to. Like I love a stretch lab. Like it to me, my body hurts the whole time I'm pregnant. It's the only like that and a massage are the only thing that makes me feel better. And it's like, you know, I walk there, that's 20 minutes. It's an hour, 15 minute appointment. I walk home, it's 20 minutes, and maybe I have to wash my hair, God forbid, once or twice a week. That's a whole production. Like, there's just things that take time that are like some are luxurious. Yes, stretch lab like totally a luxury. Washing my hair is not. It's just something I have to do that takes a lot of time. You know, there's just like Things that add up and the day goes by so quickly. And yeah, I know like to each his own. But I don't know. Maybe I'm a person who just needs a lot of like random things in like alone time. I was like an only child till I was seven. And I again I think it just saves a lot of frustration in our marriage of not trying to negotiate whose time is more important, especially on a weekend, like or who did tit for tat, like who owes something. And then also I think. We could probably, and I know a lot of families do this, like that just switch off, like the ⁓ you know, mom takes the kids, dad has loan time and then in reverse. But for me, I really wanted I didn't want us spending our weekends totally separately from each other either, as like, you know, ⁓ my husband and I. And so it was like important that we got time like as a family to hang out and go do things outside the house. And that I felt like if we were kind of just switching off with the kid all day. We would never really see each other be together as a family. So that's also, you know, important to us. I love it. No. My husband might have a different opinion. He might be like, I don't need to hang out with the shape. I always do. ⁓ Like, I do. Right. Especially pregnant. Like being pregnant with a toddler. Like, you know, if if I'm alone with him, there are moments where I'm like, I don't know how people have done this with like being pregnant with six kids. Like again, maybe I'm just weak, but I'm like My toddler's like attacking me for something. I'm like, someone come and tap like tap me out. Like I can't handle this. No, I completely yeah. I mean, like, I I look at my friends who have like toddlers or like 200, whatever. And I'm like, you guys are strong. Cause I no, no. I mean, I completely yeah, I can I can see that being a lot for sure. So you're one of the you're one of the strong ones, Courtney. I don't know. No, I I don't think I am actually, but that's why, you know, and I think I also like really like Some people handle pregnancy like champs and I just don't. I just am not one of those people. So I'm like, I just I yeah. I'm like sometimes I'm like it's crazy that I say I don't want to be alone with my toddler because I feel like I'm like scared of him. But like he's the sweetest boy. But like sometimes we just get into a mood. I'm like, I'm not physically capable of like being able to like bend over and grab you, remove you from the situation, you know? Mama, you're so funny because I feel like I've never said that out loud, but sometimes I'm like scared to be around my two-year-old. No, like I am. Like I I never know like when he's coming for me. If he's like gonna like plant a big kiss on my cheek cheek or is he gonna like smack my face? And again, like I think he's a good kid, but like it's just he's two like he's almost three and I think, you know, some of those tendencies are like getting better now. But like, you know, it's like not that uncommon if he's overstimulated, just like wants to bite something and I'm never know if it's like gonna be me or the dog. Like No, I completely understand. And I have a girl and like what you're saying to me like is my everyday and sometimes I'm literally like bracing myself. I'm like, I don't know what you're about to do. No, I never know. I never know. And then if he's coming for me, I'm like, sh are his nails trimmed? Like is he gonna scratch me? Like I No, that's it. It's a wild it's a wild world living with a toddler. Like really is like a drunk adult with like some anger management issues or something. ⁓ No, that's very real. ⁓ my god, I'm so happy you said that 'cause I feel like I've never really expressed this to anybody except like my mom. But I'm like, bro, like I'm scared. Like I don't know. I don't want to say out loud, I'm scared of my kid, but like sometimes I am. And then I try to be like authoritative. And it's like she reads right through me. I'm like, ⁓ nigga. And then they can be so sweet. And you're like, I can't believe I just said that about you. I can't believe I said, you know. Literally, she's gonna come home right now from my mom's and she's gonna be the sweetest little thing. I love you and cuddle, cuddle. Whew, good times. Not yeah, but it can turn on a dime, you know? Like it can turn on a dime. A hundred percent. I agree. So when it comes to I feel like the dog is the most scared sometimes. my dog hates to see her coming. I'm not even trying to be funny. Like she'll whack and I hate this. I'm sorry. She whacks the dog and then I have to like like like be upset because that's not okay. Yeah. Yeah. And like the dog doesn't really care, but I have to act like the dog cares. Yes. So now I'm defending the dog. The dog doesn't care. The dog's trying to eat the bowl, whatever. You eat its dinner. It's just too much. She owned the bowl. Sorry, I'm going up, but she's going, she goes in the bowl and then like the water's everywhere and like she tries to feed her fake dogs with his food while he's eating and I'm like, okay, we have to like let him eat. So she really just comes for everybody, I guess. It's not just me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. ⁓ that's too funny. So like when it comes to your kids though, I am curious, like, are you sort of because you know, you guys are an entrepreneur kind family, but like, are you going to sort of integrate like your kids in the business? Like are you gonna kind of show I mean they're three. I know your son's three, but like Are you gonna show him and like, you know, your baby? Are you gonna show them sort of like what business is about? Are you gonna try to encourage that? Like, what's your take on that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we I mean, obviously, I don't expect, you know, our kids to be a part of this business just because I mean, look, family businesses are great, but you know, I want them to like pave their own path. But we do try to talk, you know, at times, like within reason because I love this like TikTok or whatever, but it's like, I don't know if you know this, but in toddler culture, it's offensive to have a conversation with your spouse in front of them. Like, which is just so true. Like trying to like talk to your spouse while they're there is just like they don't want that. They want you to talk to them. So sometimes David is it, you know, an important like work thing that Sam and I do need to discuss after hours when we are on parent duty. You know, we do try to sort of like give it to him in like basic terms or like, you know, we have taking him on a couple of work trips at times, obviously like with our opair or something. And then we'll bring him to a store visit or like be like, this is what mama and dad are do. We tell him about sugar and bronze. So we do. I mean, obviously he's still so young, but I think that it's important, you know, well Sam and I grew up with parents who were entrepreneurial and talking about business in our houses. So we definitely, you know, want to expose him to as much as he's willing to listen to and just talk to him and general about I think most importantly, like our job is to like instill in him the belief that like he can do anything that he sets his mind to and not to sort of and also I think not to like follow you don't have to be caught up in all the social sort of like norms of like if you know I hope my kid goes to college because I had so much fun in college. I met Sam, but like also like if he feels like a calling that's different, like you don't have to do things just because society says you have to do them. You know? Like how do you we sh we try to teach him how to respectfully question things or negotiate, which is a fine line with a toddler because you like how often do you want them negotiating with you or questioning you? Right. But it is like kind of where you have to start because and it's like how do you do it in a respectful way where you're not like being a horrible kid to your parents. But like my husband really encourages negotiation. It's kind of funny. And like Nola just takes it really far. Like we'll like, ⁓ you can have a sip of this. And he's like, five sips. And we're like, that's no negotiation. You could maybe ask for two sips, you or maybe three. But like five is like really like a stretch, you know. So we do teach him how to sort of negotiate for things and also like and ask us, you know, why at times like we are doing things. Like I think that like so much of parenting you just want to say, because I said so. And while I do want him to listen when he needs to listen, especially if it's like a safety concern or whatever, it's like a dog, you're like, when I say come, you just need to come. Like there's just times where you just need to shut up and listen. But also there's times where he I want him to be able to challenge us a little bit and like and understand why. And like maybe ⁓ we can even ask ourselves like, well, why are we doing this or is there a different way or can we compromise? So I think from a young age, sometimes you're just taught to like shut up and listen and then you kind of, you know, do that in school or you do that in your whole life, and then you don't really question things. So it's a fine line as a parent trying to like instill that in your child, but also like have a respectful child who does listen to you. So it's something I think about a lot. Yeah, same. Same. I mean, like, I'm new to this parenting thing. I mean like ⁓ I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing half the time, but ignore No, I don't either. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I don't what I'm doing. But hey, I gotta pretend I gotta make it look like I do know what I'm doing now to at least to her. Yeah. Yeah, they need to think that we do. Yeah, that's for sure. A hundred percent. I love it. So as far as like baby on the way, which is you what are you doing, you said? Late September. Late September. I love it. So What does the rest of the year kind of look like for you? What do you think the next upcoming years look like? I know you talked about expanding. You mentioned Chicago. What is in store for you? I always say time flies when you're not pregnant because it definitely creeps by when you are. At least it does for me. It's not really an enjoyable process. I like to be very honest about that because I think also women, a lot of them are taught to like, ⁓ you should like love and enjoy this experience. And like it's one thing to be grateful for these, you know, to have it like to be able to be. Be pregnant and I am grateful, but it is, I want to be clear, extremely challenging for me. So I think a lot of women are now finally like starting to open up about that and like admit that. But for a long time they weren't. So I mean, a lot of this the next couple months, like I like to think it's just about four and some change. Four months and some change is about surviving pregnancy and you know, showing up to work as much as I can. Obviously, my travel will slow down here towards the end. It just becomes quite difficult and uncomfortable, as I'm sure you know. And really making sure I've delegated things that I still handle day to day for maternity leave and feeling really good about where my plate sort of falls by comes September and being prepared for potentially even earlier. Like just making sure my ducks are in a row. And then, you know, September to the end of the year, I'll be on maternity leave. And, you know, that looks just like so different than my day to day life, obviously. But I'm excited for that time as well because besides my last maternity leave, it's really the only time you ever like should like take off work, you know, if you're a working parent. So yeah, and then, you know, next year, what probably, you know, the turn of the new year, I'll be right back at it, like just trying to figure it out with two kids instead of one. And we'll hopefully hopefully this year will be Chicago. I hope. And we're also looking at leases in Denver, Boulder. So that will be the next new market after Chicago, ideally. So getting sort of those new markets ready. And then, you know, honestly, I think it will probably be time for our investors have been invested in us for gosh, about seven years now. And so just the nature of private equity is that they probably need to sell at least some of their shares. If not, you know, I think they might want to keep some still totally undecided. So we'll probably go to market next year. And just for the sheer fact of like they have to get a return to their LPs. And that's how private equity works. Like I think at this point we've really figured out a like rhythm and how to work together. And we have such a great working relationship. We're with a main post partners out of San Francisco. And then Howard Schultz has a little bit of equity as well. And yeah, like I love working with them, but they have to exit at some point. Like that's just how it all works. So we probably will go to market, do a official horse and pony show kind of thing and management meetings. And, you know, we've done that once before. So we kind of know the drill is time, but It is like it's a very time consuming sort of process. I mean, at least it was for us the first time and you're meeting with a lot of people, a lot of people you know already, a lot of people you don't know, you know, showing them your stores, talking about your business, answering a lot of questions. And it's really it's a fun sort of time, but it's also a big unknown for us. Like, you know, we don't know what the next chapter will look like in terms of partners and I like to, you know. l live in curiosity and we're very excited for it. But I also would be like totally happy staying with our current investors for a long time. I just know that like that's not a reality. ⁓ yeah. No, no, you're right. I mean, I definitely don't know as much as I should regarding like all that, but I can probably see that being something you would want for a long, long time. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, it's just again, like they usually have like a 10 year fund, typically on average a lot of PE firms and then but Even though it's a 10-year fine, like the most investments are about five years. So we're already longer than that, mostly because of the pandemic and just adding a couple years for like times we were just were closed and absolutely not growing. So, you know, it's just sort of coming up on that time where they like I said, they do have to exit. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see what comes next. But I think between us, our COO. Our current investors, like we're all really aligned on what we want the future to look like for sugar and bronze. And it's really just doing more of what we're doing now. It's not like suddenly franchising everything or changing the playbook by any means. It's really, you know, just finding that next partner to, you know, h help us really with just money on the balance sheet for strategic growth. Like we at this point, you know, we have been pretty much always profitable minus the pandemic. time period. So it's really just a buffer on the balance sheet to help us sort of with like the capital capital expenditure of like construction and just growing quickly. Cause we try to sign up a new lease at like once a month. ⁓ wow. Nice. Yeah, we are growing. I love it. Courtney, you're amazing. I'm so happy that you were able to come on today. If you were to give a mom a mom tr I can't say this word, mom but treneur. You what I'm trying to say? Mom treneur. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well that an entrepreneur that's a mom, right? I'm gonna say that in terms of what One piece of advice would you give that mom? ⁓ gosh. Yeah, yeah. Don't feel guilty for not doing it all. Like again, like what we were saying about big room mom or whatever. You have your business is another kid. So I think of it like I talked to my husband sometimes like about, you know, for like not giving Nolan all the attention in the world in that moment because we were talking about our own thing. I'm like, imagine if we had six kids right now. Like he would never be getting the amount of attention he gets from the two of us. And there's plenty of kids who grew up in happy households, especially like from a couple generations back, with like six kids was normal. And then like it still isn't like totally insane. And just like think about that. Because I think sometimes you feel like you have to give everything to your kid if you have free time. And but if you were just spending your time with another kid, you would feel guilty, right? Like you'd like, Well, I'm with this kid. I can't be with that kid. So I think it just think of your business as another child. I mean, obviously. It's different, but it's still a living, breathing thing. And you wouldn't, I think, ignore one kid for the other, vice versa. So it's just like don't feel bad about like having to find that balance because anybody with multiple kids is doing the same thing. I think that's my like just like saying this because like I think you're awesome, but I think that's truly some of the best advice I've ever heard. Like I'm serious because like everyone always says that, like, ⁓ they know, like I'm paying attention too much at work, this and that. It's like But would you say that if that was another child? And yes, your business is a baby. It needs to be nurtured and cared for and watered and for it to grow. So that's crazy that people I never heard it kind of spoken like that. And I love it. It's true. Yeah, and ultimately it's like usually probably bettering your child's life. Like the better the business is going, you know? It's like more support for your for your child or children. So yeah, I think that like we're just like, told that we need to feel this mom guilt a lot. And I'm not saying it's not real and I don't feel it, but I also like, I don't know. I don't like to feel guilty. It's not a good feeling. And I make very intentional decisions with my life. So I've learned to sort of just be like, yeah, no, I mean there are moms who go and do all the things involved. And that's like great. And I love that for them. And that's the path they've chosen. We need all types of people to make the world go round. I just like sort of know that that's not me. Like I fill my cup in different ways. Like I won't be at everything. Like sometimes I am at work and I tried to just be like, no, that's the path I've chosen intentionally and I don't need to feel guilty about that. God, I love it. I need that on a t shirt. I'm serious because I feel like that I've been screaming that from the rooftops. I'm like, am I a shitty mom? Because like I don't necessarily feel a traditional guilt if I go to work. I mean, I work in morning radio. I'm on the radio at like five in the morning. My kid is sleeping until seven AM. I get it, right? I'm like, okay, she's not really up yet. But Then I'm like, ⁓ I miss the mornings. I'm a shit mom. And then I'm just like, but I'm really happy. Like, I love what I do. I worked really hard to get here. You know what I mean? Like I Yeah, I don't do mornings. I I say hi and I'm home a lot or around, but I don't do mornings. My husband doesn't either. I get up and I work out when I'm not pregnant. I like to like do some breath work in the sauna. I like to take a cold plunge, whatever, like get aligned for the day. But I'm not the one making breakfast, like full transparency, you know? And I'm a night person and like that's we do nights. Like so, yeah. No, I love it. I don't think you need to feel guilty. No, I honestly like since I think having her, like my guilt went out the door. 'Cause I used to be like a really big people pleaser too, in that terms of like everybody wanted something from me. It's my own thing. I'm working on it right in therapy. But since having her though, I'm just like, I really don't give a shit if like you're mad at me because I don't know, I didn't go to like your whatever, like I didn't hang out with you and I had to cancel last minute, like sorry, shit happens, my kids sick, like, you know what I'm saying? Like my mom guilt just went out the door so much. Or like my guilt, I should say, like, for other little things. My best friend, he's like a sassy little gay, but he's always like, no one can guilt me. And I always used to be like, really? But like I kind of see it now. I'm like, you really can't guilt that. Sorry, brother. You really can't guilt me. Like it's that it takes a lot. Like it it has to be like something r I mean like really deep, you know. No, I'm not gonna feel guilty because I didn't go to like whatever. Like, I mean, yes, I feel bad because I can't make it somewhere, of course. Does life happen? Am I busy? Am I overstimulated? Do I have to go to a meeting? A last minute thing came up. Like, it's life, bro. I don't know what to say. It's life. Yeah. Yeah. You can't do it all. It can't be everywhere. Nope. Exactly. Corey Nate, you're amazing. Thank you for joining us. Where can we follow you? If anybody wants to reach out, of course, where can we get spray tanned and all that good stuff? Where can we do it? I mean the business you can find on sugaredandbrons dot com. Our socials are at just at Sugared and Bronze. Super simple TikTok Instagram. I'm at Courtney Clagcorn on all the same TikTok Instagram. ⁓ if you want to come in for an appointment, we are in LA, Orange County, San Diego, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Miami, D C, Philly, and New York City. Soon to be Chicago and hop and Colorado and or Denver, I should say. And yeah, I mean, reach out. DM us, send us a note, whatever you want to do. I love it. You can book online, obviously. Yes, I am. Courtney, thank you for being here today. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.