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Corie Walsh Insanity Defense and Prison Medication Dispute · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You know, usually a medical diagnosis is, well, it's a
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: lot like looking at a broken bone on an x-ray. Right.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: It's pretty straightforward.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Exactly. You see that jagged white line. The doctor points
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: right to it. And that is kind of it. It's
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: either broken or it's not. It is this very binary,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: visible truth.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: You don't really debate a fractured femur.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: No, you don't. But when you step into a courtroom
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to try and measure the exact breaking point of the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: human mind, that x-ray machine is just, I mean, it's
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: entirely useless.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: It really is. It's a completely different landscape.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: And today we are looking at a case that really
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: highlights that. We're looking at a mother, a murdered toddler,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a digital footprint that, well, it abruptly ends at 1230 p.m.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: on the day of the tragedy, and this really desperate
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: search for answers.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredibly heavy. It is.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: And that is the mission of our deep dive today.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: We are exploring a deeply reported investigation by journalist Greg
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Wehner for Fox News Digital.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: And.
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  Speaker 1: This reporting really exposes the fragile and honestly often terrifying
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: line between a mind completely lost to psychosis and, well,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a calculated premeditated crime.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the stakes in a case like this, they
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: literally could not be higher. Yeah. Because you are dealing with,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: on one hand, the most catastrophic loss imaginable, right?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: A two-year-old child.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And on the other hand, a legal system
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: that is essentially forced to play psychiatrist after the fact,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: we're dissecting what is the absolute definition of diagnostic muddy waters.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I want to put you, the listener, directly
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: into the jury box for this one, because the narrative
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: whiplash you get when you read through this, it's intense.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I was reading through this Fox News digital investigation and
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the core of it is just devastating.
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  Speaker 2: It's hard to even read.
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  Speaker 1: It really is. So let's establish the ground truth first,
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  Speaker 1: just the baseline. What are the undisputed facts that we
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: are dealing with here before these two competing legal narratives
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: even begin to take shape?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so the central tragedy revolves around a 38-year-old mother
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: in Illinois. Her name is Cori A. Walsh.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: All right.
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  Speaker 2: She's currently facing three counts of first-degree murder, and she's
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: accused of strangling her two-year-old son, Barrett. Yeah. And because
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: the victim's incredibly young age, A conviction here carries a
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: mandatory potential sentence of 60 to 100 years in prison.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: A mandatory 60 to 100 years.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Right. And in the state of Illinois, violent crimes of
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: this specific nature, they require the sentence to be served
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: at 100 percent.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Wait, really? So no time off for good behavior?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: None. There is no early release. There's no parole board
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: hearing in a couple of decades where she can show
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: she's rehabilitated. It is a definitive end to her life
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  Speaker 2: as a free citizen if she's convicted.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: OK.
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  Speaker 1: And what about the rest of the family during this?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: So at the time of the incident, her husband, Michael Walsh,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: was actually traveling out of state. He immediately flew home
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: that evening when he got the news. So those are
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the physical realities of the event. But the moment those
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: facts were established by police, two completely opposed realities regarding
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: her mental state changed. began to form.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: And this is where it's like the justice system is
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: handed a broom and told to sweep up a shattered
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  Speaker 1: window and definitively prove exactly how it broke.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Was it, you know, a structural flaw building over years
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: or just a sudden violent impact? So how is the
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: prosecution framing those undisputed facts we just leave out?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Well, according to the petition seeking to deny her pretrial release,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: the prosecution alleges this was a brutal calculated act. They
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: note that Walsh allegedly told police she killed the toddler
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: because she believes he was the, quote, devil.
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  Speaker 1: Which, I mean, on its face, that sounds like a
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: severe delusion.
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  Speaker 2: Right, it does. But the prosecution is using the surrounding
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: circumstances to build a narrative of a calculating killer, someone
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: who completely understood her actions. They were looking at the
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: actual mechanics of the event to argue premeditation, not a
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: break from reality.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: OK, so then we look at the defense side. And
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  Speaker 1: who is actually leading the defense strategy here? Because this
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: isn't just a standard public defender case, right?
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  Speaker 2: No, not at all. She is being represented by a
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: really prominent attorney named Andrea Lyon.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: OK, I recognize that name.
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  Speaker 2: You probably do. For context, for the listener, Leon is
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: a real heavyweight in high stakes criminal defense. She actually
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: served on Casey Anthony's legal team.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. OK, that tells you the caliber of defense
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: we're talking about.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And Lyon's defense describes the event in entirely
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: different terms than the state. In a public statement, she
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: explicitly categorized this as a tragic, psychotic episode.
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  Speaker 1: So imagine you're sitting on this jury. You are being
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: asked to hold two completely contradictory ideas in your head
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  Speaker 1: at the exact same time.
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  Speaker 2: It's cognitive dissonance.
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  Speaker 1: Total cognitive dissonance. The prosecution is telling you she is
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  Speaker 1: a calculating murderer who made a conscious choice to end
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  Speaker 1: a life. And the defense is telling you, no, her
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  Speaker 1: reality fractured so completely that she suffered a cytotic episode
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  Speaker 1: and it stripped away all her autonomy.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: How does a legal narrative even begin to formalize around
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: something as subjective as a psychotic episode? I mean, you
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: can't put a psychotic episode on a table and show
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  Speaker 1: it to the jury.
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  Speaker 2: You can't. And it begins with this fundamental mandate of
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: criminal law. You know, in cases of this magnitude, the
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: what is almost never in dispute.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: The physical reality is documented.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly. We know what happened. The entire legal machinery just
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: instantly shifts to the why. Criminal law requires something called
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: mens rea.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Mens rea, right.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a Latin term. It just means guilty mind.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: To be convicted of first-degree murder, it is not enough
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: that your hands physically committed the act. Your mind must
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: have intended the criminal outcome.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: You had to want to do a crime.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Yes. The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: that that guilty mind existed. And the defense has to
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: prove that a psychotic episode basically obliterated that guilty mind.
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  Speaker 1: And that battle over the why is literally dictating whether
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  Speaker 1: a human being spends the rest of their natural life
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: in a concrete prison cell or is placed into a
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: secure psychiatric facility.
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  Speaker 2: That's the entire ballgame.
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  Speaker 1: Which opens up this massive unfolding crisis that is happening
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: right now with Corey Walsh before a trial even begins.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Because the battle over her mental state isn't just happening
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: in court filings, right?
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: No, it's happening in real time. Right.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: It is happening in her daily reality behind bars. According
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to the Fox News Digital article, right after her arrest,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: she wasn't just taken straight to a jail cell to
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: get booked. She required immediate hospitalization.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Yes. So immediately following her arrest, she was treated at
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Silver Cross Hospital for self-inflicted wounds to her wrists and
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: her thighs.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So this wasn't just a quick psych evaluation.
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  Speaker 2: No, this was acute medical intervention for severe self-harm. She
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: was in a hospital. And according to her defense team,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: when the doctors at Silver Cross finally discharged her into
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: police custody, they didn't just hand her over with a
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: bandage and say good luck.
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  Speaker 1: What did they do?
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  Speaker 2: They explicitly medically recommended 247 psychiatric care.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: A direct medical mandate from licensed hospital physicians.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. A mandate for continuous, highly specialized observation and medication.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: But she's in jail.
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  Speaker 2: Right. The reality of our justice system is that she
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: was transferred to the Will County Adult Detention Facility. And
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  Speaker 2: her defense team is now claiming that within that facility,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: she is actively being denied her prescribed psychiatric medication.
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  Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's wild. What does the jail say?
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  Speaker 2: Well, the Will County Sheriff's Office, they oversee the jail operations.
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  Speaker 2: They did not respond to requests for comment regarding her
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: medical treatment when contacted by Fox News Digital.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: OK, I want to explore the underlying mechanism of this
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: because it highlights this staggering institutional blind spot that we have.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: It really does.
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  Speaker 1: Think about it like this. If a hospital doctor prescribes
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: insulin to a diabetic inmate and a county jail just
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: denies that insulin, the physical harm is immediate, it's obvious,
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  Speaker 1: and the institutional liability is massive.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, totally. A warden wouldn't dream of withholding insulin.
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  Speaker 1: Right. It is universally understood as a failure of pair,
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  Speaker 1: a lawsuit waiting to happen. But when the medication is psychiatric,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: when the wounds are to the mind instead of the pancreas,
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  Speaker 1: Why does the entire institutional apparatus suddenly treat it as optional?
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  Speaker 2: It's the stigma.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Why is the brain treated differently than any other
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  Speaker 1: organ by the justice system?
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  Speaker 2: You are hitting on the absolute core architectural and operational
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: friction of the modern penal system. You really have to
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: look at the conflicting mandates of these two institutions to
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: understand it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, break that down.
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  Speaker 2: So a hospital A's primary singular mandate is care, right?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: A county jail is primary mandate is custody.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Custody, keeping them locked up. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Jails are built on the principles of the panopticon security
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  Speaker 2: containment isolation order. They are designed to restrict movement and
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  Speaker 2: just enforce compliance.
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  Speaker 1: Which is the opposite of a therapeutic environment.
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  Speaker 2: Fundamentally. They are architecturally hostile to the concept of psychiatric
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: milieu therapy. Real psychiatric care requires stabilization. It requires continuous
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: clinical assessment and therapeutic intervention. You don't get that in
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  Speaker 2: a cinderblock cell.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: So you have this legally presumed innocent person, someone who
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: hasn't been convicted of anything yet, who just days prior
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  Speaker 1: was in an acute hospital for severe self-harm placed into
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: an environment designed for punishment, not healing.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly the friction the defense is highlighting here. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: jails simply do not have the infrastructure, the staffing ratios,
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  Speaker 2: or honestly, often the budget to act as 247 acute
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: psychiatric wards.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: But they have to, right? Once they arrest you.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Legally, yes. The state takes on a duty of care
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the moment they lock that cell door. But look at
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: what actually happens. If someone is experiencing a severe mental
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: health crisis, placing them in an isolation cell, which is
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: standard protocol for high profile or at risk inmates so
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  Speaker 2: they don't get hurt by general population, that often induces
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: sensory deprivation.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, man. Which makes psychosis worse.
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  Speaker 2: It can dramatically accelerate a psychotic break. The defense is
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: essentially arguing that the state is artificially exacerbating the very
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: psychological condition that sits at the absolute center of the
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: impending trial.
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  Speaker 1: And that creates a terrifying paradox for you, the listener,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to consider. The state is simultaneously holding her legally accountable
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: for her mental state at the time of the crime,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: while actively depriving her of the medication needed to stabilize
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that exact mental state in the present day.
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  Speaker 2: It's a complete catch-22.
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  Speaker 1: It really is, which forces us to ask a really
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: difficult question. What exactly does the state consider insane? Because,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you know, in our everyday lives, we throw that word
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  Speaker 1: around all the time to describe erratic behavior. Oh, my
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: boss is insane today.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Right, casually. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: But in a courtroom, the definition is completely different. The
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: article brings in Richard S. Kling, a clinical professor at
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Chicago-Kent College of Law, and he's a former public defender
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  Speaker 1: who has handled these exact types of high-stakes insanity cases.
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  Speaker 1: So what did he say? How does Illinois actually legally
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: define insanity?
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  Speaker 2: Well, this is where the gap between the medical field
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  Speaker 2: and the legal field becomes a massive canyon.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Professor Kling points out that in Illinois, the statutory definition
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: of insanity is incredibly narrow.
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  Speaker 1: How narrow?
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  Speaker 2: It states that a person is not criminally responsible if,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: at the time of the conduct, as a result of
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: a mental defect or disability, they lack substantial capacity to
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: appreciate the criminality of their conduct. Wait.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I'm stuck on this. I need to push back hard
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: here because this standard feels impossibly, almost cruelly rigid.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: It is very rigid.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the established facts of this case.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: She told the police she killed her toddler because she
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: genuinely believed he was the devil. Right. If a mother
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: literally looks at her two-year-old child and sees a literal demon,
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  Speaker 1: her reality is entirely gone. The physical world we share
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: no longer exists for her.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: True.
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  Speaker 1: So how can the legal system possibly expect someone who
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: is living inside a literal hallucinatory horror movie to care
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: about the Illinois Penal Code? I mean, if you are
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: that detached from reality, aren't you by definition insane?
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  Speaker 2: It is a profound, deeply unsettling paradox.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: But you have just identified the exact hinge upon which
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: all these trials turn. Really?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: The legal system draws a massive, solid line between understanding
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: reality and understanding criminality.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Explain that.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Let's break down the psychology of a complex delusion. Let's
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: say someone is experiencing a vivid, terrifying hallucination, right? The
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: medical community looks at that and says, yes, this patient
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: is suffering from severe psychosis. They need immediate medical intervention.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Because their reality is broken.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. Their reality is undeniably broken. But the law,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the law doesn't care if reality is broken.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: The law doesn't care.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Not fundamentally. The law only asks, even within the confines
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: of that broken, delusional reality, did the defendant know that
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: the specific act of taking a life was against the rules,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: against the law?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: So having a diagnosed mental illness isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Not even close. A psychiatric diagnosis, say severe postpartum psychosis
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder with psychotic features, is merely
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: step one.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: It just gets you in the door.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: It just gets you in the door to even attempt
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: the defense. The defense has a staggering burden of proof.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: They must prove the defendant was legally insane at the
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: exact microscopic moment the alleged offense occurred.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: At 1.00 p.m. on that specific Tuesday, basically.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Precisely. Professor Kling explains that psychiatrists have to essentially time travel.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: They examine a person's mental state months after the crime,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: and they look at their behavior days before the crime
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to try and reverse engineer what the chemical state of
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: their brain was at the moment of the tragedy.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: How does a psychiatrist even begin to reverse engineer a
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: mental state from months prior? I mean, you can't draw
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: blood to test for psychosis three months after the fact.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: No, you can't. So they rely on forensic psychology, which
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: is vastly different from clinical therapy.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Well, a clinical therapist is there to help you heal, right?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: They generally believe What you tell them, they validate your feelings. Sure.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: A forensic psychiatrist is an investigator. They conduct exhaustive collateral interviews.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: They're talking to coworkers, neighbors, family members. They look at
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: text messages, emails, internet search history.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: They're building a timeline.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: They're looking for the trajectory of the mind over time.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And they also administer incredibly complex standardized psychological tests designed
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: specifically to detect malingering.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Malingering. That's the clinical term for faking a mental illness, right?
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Faking it for secondary gain, like avoiding prison.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: But can people actually fake psychosis successfully enough to fool
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: a forensic psychiatrist? I feel like a smart person could
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: just act crazy.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: It is incredibly difficult to do successfully. True psychosis has
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: very specific documented presentations that lay people just don't know about.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: For example. Auditory hallucinations in genuine schizophrenia usually have a
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: very specific cadence, tone, and repetitive nature. People faking psychosis,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: they often overact. They claim to see incredibly complex Hollywood-style
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: visual hallucinations, which are actually quite rare compared to auditory ones.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, like they say they saw a full monster in
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the room?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Right. Or they claim the voices told them to do
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: it in a way that sounds rehearsed and perfectly aligns
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: with the legal defense. Forensic tests, like the Structured Interview
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: of Reported Symptoms, or the SERS test, they're built with
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: statistical tripwires.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Tripwires?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They ask questions about bizarre symptoms that don't actually
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: exist in any known psychiatric literature.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's clever.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So if a defendant claims to have those fake symptoms,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: the psychiatrist immediately knows they are malingering.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so the defense has to prove genuine debilitating
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: psychosis that specifically blinded her to the law. But what
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: happens if a jury looks at this and says, you
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: know what, she is clearly severely mentally ill, but we
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: think she still kind of knew it was wrong. Is
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: it just an all or nothing verdict?
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: In a lot of places, yes. But in Illinois, there
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: is a very distinct separate legal verdict designed for exactly
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that gray area. It's called guilty but mentally ill.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Guilty but mentally ill. And this is vastly different from
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: not guilty by reason of insanity.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Vastly different.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: How does guilty but mentally ill actually play out in
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the real world of the prison system then?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Well, a guilty but mentally ill verdict is often viewed
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: by defense attorneys as a compromise verdict. It's for a
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: jury that feels sympathy but still demands accountability.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: They don't want her to just walk away.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Right. It acknowledges the mental health struggle that goes on
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: the official record, but it still holds the person entirely
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: criminally responsible.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: So she still goes to prison.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Crucially, it usually results in the exact same prison sentence
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: as a standard guilty verdict.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: The same 60 to 100 years.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Yes. The only difference is that the Department of Corrections
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: is supposedly mandated to provide mental health treatment during that sentence.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Supposedly.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Right. Supposedly. Yeah. But as we just discussed with the
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: current county jail situation, The quality and consistency of that
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: treatment inside a maximum security prison is highly debatable.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That seems like an empty promise.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: It often is. Conversely, a finding of not guilty by
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: reason of insanity means that intent required to commit murder
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: we talked about, it simply did not exist.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Because the mind was broken.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The person is acquitted of the crime. They are
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: not a criminal. But they are remanded to a superior
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: psychiatric hospital. until they are deemed no longer a threat.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Which could be forever.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: It can sometimes be longer than a prison sentence, yes. Yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: But it is focused purely on treatment, not punishment.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And that legal tightrope, proving she couldn't appreciate the criminality
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: of her actions, that brings us to what might be
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: the prostitution's most damning, calculated counter-allegation in this entire case.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: The premeditation element.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Right, because if premeditation destroys an insanity defense, how does
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the prosecution actually prove she was planning this?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: They introduce evidence of executive function. And in this case,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: the prosecution has alleged a staggering escalation in the narrative.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: They claim that Walsh was actively planning to poison her
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: husband before her son's death.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: OK, I read that detail in the Fox News Digital
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Report and it just stopped me in my tracks.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: It's a huge bombshell. It is.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Now, the article is careful to note that the specific
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: details regarding this alleged poisoning plot like, you know, how
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: far along the plan actually was, whether she had acquired
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: a substance or what that substance was, none of that
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: has been disclosed in open court yet.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Right. It's just the allegation right now.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: But the prosecution has firmly planted this flag. How does
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Professor Kling view the introduction of a poisoning plot in
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the context of an insanity defense?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Professor Kling provides crucial insight here regarding the mechanics of
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: the law. He explains that any evidence of planning a
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: crime or attempting to conceal a crime after the fact
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: becomes the prosecution's most lethal weapon.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Because it shows intent.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Prosecutors will use that exact kind of systematic behavior
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: to argue that the defendant absolutely understood the criminality of
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: their conduct. I mean, think about the mechanics of poisoning someone.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It's not impulsive.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: No, it is not a crime of sudden uncontrollable passion.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: It requires sourcing a toxin, calculating a dose, finding a
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: method of delivery without getting caught, and anticipating the aftermath.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: But I keep coming back to this analogy I use,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: my broken compass analogy.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, lay it out.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: If a ship's compass is fundamentally broken, it might lead
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you straight into a reef, right?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But the ship's engine is still running perfectly, the rudder
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: still works fine, the crew is still methodically doing all
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: their jobs, everything mechanically is working, the direction is just
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: fundamentally flawed. Yes.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I see where you're going.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Can a human mind operate the same way? Like, is
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it possible for someone.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: That is an exceptional analogy. And it really gets to
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the very heart of neuropsychology.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yes. The brain is not a single unified organ
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: that just turns on and off like a light switch.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: It is a complex network of different independent systems.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So one part can break while the rest is fine?
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Precisely. The frontal lobe, which handles executive functions, so planning,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: sequential logic, organizing tasks, that can sometimes remain largely intact,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: even while the reality testing centers of the brain are
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: completely overwhelmed by psychosis.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Psychiatric literature is actually full of individuals who suffer from complex,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: highly systematized delusions while retaining the ability to plan a schedule,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: drive a car, hold a normal conversation, or execute tasks.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: So they don't just look like the stereotype of someone
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: losing their mind? No.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: People with severe delusions don't just sit catatonic in a corner.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: They often act upon those delusions with a terrifying, methodical
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: logic that makes perfect sense internal to their broken reality.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: So, if she genuinely believed her child was the devil
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: in her broken reality, planning a method to eliminate that
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: threat might require executive function, But the premise itself is
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: entirely insane.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Precisely the argument the defense will make.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: But juries must struggle with that.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: They inherently struggle with that nuance. It is incredibly difficult
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: for a layperson to look at a spreadsheet or a
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: poisoned drink or a hidden weapon and believe the person
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: who did it didn't know what they were doing.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Because it looks so normal.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Right. The prosecution will use this alleged poisoning plot to
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: paint a picture of a cold calculating killer. They will
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: use it to directly attack that statutory requirement in Illinois.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Appreciating the criminality.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Yes. They will tell the jury a person who researches
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: poison is a person who appreciates criminality. For a jury,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: premeditation is often the kryptonite to an insanity defense. It
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: completely shatters the sympathetic image of a sudden, unpredictable, uncontrollable
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: break from reality.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: And speaking of that digital footprint... of researching and planning,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: we have to talk about the most disturbing, almost surreal
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: detail in this entire report from Greg Wehner.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the texts.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: It is a detail that feels like a dark, distorted
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: mirror held up to the case itself. We mentioned earlier
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that the timeline and the digital footprint are critical for
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrists. So what did investigators find in her phone
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: just hours before the tragedy?
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Well, witnesses told investigators that Walsh had recently grown very
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: invested in the trial of Lindsay Clancy.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: And I want to make sure everyone listening understands the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: weight of that name. Lindsay Clancy is the Massachusetts mother
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: who was charged with murdering her three young children. Her
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: defense team alleges she was suffering from a severe documented
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: bout of postpartum psychosis at the time. That case dominated
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: national news. It sparked massive nationwide conversations about the realities
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: of maternal mental health, the failures of the medical system
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: to protect mothers, And just the unimaginable horrors of postpartum psychosis.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: It was everywhere.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: It was. And witnesses say Walsh was intensely fixated on it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: But the investigation reveals it wasn't just a passing interest.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: It gets incredibly specific. And the timeline is what makes
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: this so critical.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Right. The timestamps.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Walsh allegedly texted friends specifically discussing the Lindsay Clancy case
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: as late as 1230 p.m. on the very day of
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: her son's killing.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: 1230 p.m. Just hours before her life and her child's life. ended.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: That timestamp is chilling.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: It's hard to wrap your head around.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: It is deeply unsettling to think about what was going
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: through her mind as she typed those messages. And as
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier regarding how lawyers build their narratives, this
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: specific text message exchange is going to be ground zero
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: for the psychiatric battle, isn't it?
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Because both legal teams are going to look at the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: exact same digital footprint and argue entirely opposite compelling conclusions.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: How does a prosecutor look at a 12.30 p.m. text
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: about Lindsay Clancy?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: The prosecution will view that timestamp as the ultimate proof
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: of a functioning, calculating guilty mind. They will likely argue
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: this shows deep premeditation.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: They might frame her fixation on Lindsay Clancy not as
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: a tragedy, but as research.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They will argue she was studying a blueprint for
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: an insanity defense. The prosecution narrative will be that she
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: was looking at a high-profile case... seeing how the public
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: and the legal system reacted to postpartum psychosis and actively
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: reverse engineering a defense for a crime she was already
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: planning to commit.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: They'll say she was building an alibi.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They will point to the texts as evidence of
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: a lucid mind constructing that alibi.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: But put yourself in the shoes of Andrea Lyon, the
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: defense attorney. How do you look at that same 12.30 p.m.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: text and argue it proves psychosis?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Well, the defense will look at that exact same timestamp
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and argue it is the desperate cry of a fracturing mind.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: A cry for help.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. They will argue that a mind actively deteriorating, you know,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: mother experiencing terrifying intrusive thoughts, auditory hallucinations, or paranoid delusions,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: might latch onto a news story about postpartum psychosis because
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: she's desperately seeking an explanation for the nightmare happening inside
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: her own head.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Like she's trying to diagnose herself. Right.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: She wasn't researching a blueprint. She was researching her own symptoms.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: She felt herself slipping. She was terrified of what she
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: was thinking, and she texted her friends about the only
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: cultural touchstone she had for maternal mental collapse.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: That is powerful.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: It is. The defense will argue those texts aren't an alibi.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: They are a documented cry for help hours before the
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: break became absolute.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, the listener, to consider
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the broader implications of this. Because we live in a hyper-connected,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: always-on media environment where true crime, tragedy, and psychological trauma
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: are broadcast directly into our pockets 24 hours a day.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: We're constantly bombarded.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: We consume so much trauma through our screens. How does
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: that constant barrage of information interact with a human mind
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: that is already fracturing?
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: It's a scary thought.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Does obsessively reading about a tragedy like the Lindsay Clancy
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: case trigger one? Does it plant a dark seed in
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a vulnerable mind? Or does it just provide a vocabulary,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: a framework, for someone who is already falling into the abyss?
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: This raises one of the most critical psychological and sociological
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: questions of our modern era.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Media contagion.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The phenomenon of media contagion is well documented in
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: other areas of psychology, like with teen suicides. But here,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: the timeline texting about a highly publicized thematic murder case
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: mere hours before committing a remarkably similar act It provides
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: a forensic puzzle that is almost unprecedented.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: It's just so specific.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Remember what Professor Kling said earlier about psychiatrists evaluating her
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: state of mind before and after the event to determine
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: legal insanity?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Right, time traveling.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Those text messages at 12.30 p.m. are essentially a real-time
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: transcript of her mental state. Forensic linguists and psychiatrists are
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: going to analyze the syntax, the vocabulary, the tone of
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: those texts.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Looking for clues in how she wrote them.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Yes. Were they lucid and analytical? Were they frantic and disjointed?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Were they calculating? The digital footprint becomes the primary witness
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: to her internal reality because she is the only survivor
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: of the event.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And that search for a documented history, for a digital footprint,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: is expanding rapidly beyond just the day of the tragedy.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Fox News Digital is actively conducting an ongoing journalistic investigation
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: to find the missing puzzle pieces of Walsh's life leading
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: up to this event.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Which is vital work.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: It is. Reporters aren't just looking at the police report
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: from that day. They are doing the real-world legwork of
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: a forensic investigation themselves.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: They are attempting to map the structural flaws in the
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: glass before the window shattered.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Journalists are reaching out to immediate family members, in-laws, and
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: former neighbors. They are trying to identify any prior warning signs.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Because this doesn't usually just happen out of nowhere.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: No, it rarely does. Was there a history of isolation?
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Were there documented mental health struggles leading up to that
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: holiday weekend? Was this a sudden, unpredictable break or the
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: end of a long, visible deterioration?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And it goes beyond just interviews, too. The article details
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: how they are filing Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: requests with local police departments. They are legally seeking years
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: of 901 dispatch logs and wellness checks connected to Walsh's
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: current and former residences.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Creating a paper trail. Right.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And this brings the entire tragedy directly back to you,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the listener, sitting in your own home in your own neighborhood.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Why does this meticulous, backward-looking search for a backstory matter
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: to us? Why do we care about the 911 dispatch
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: logs of a house three towns over?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: We care because it forces us to confront the illusion
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: of safety and visibility in our communities.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Illusion.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. In almost every case of this magnitude, society reflexively
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: looks backward and to find the red flags we inevitably missed.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: It is a societal coping mechanism.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: We want to feel safe.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: We desperately want to believe these tragedies are predictable, and therefore,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: if we just pay enough attention, they are preventable. We
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: want to believe that someone doesn't just snap without a
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: warning system going off.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: It highlights how utterly invisible severe mental illness can be
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: in our own communities, right up until a catastrophic breaking
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: point is reached. It forces all of us to ask ourselves,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: How well do we really know what goes on behind
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the closed doors of our neighbors?
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: You really don't know.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: You don't. If a police officer conducts a wellness check,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: what power do they actually have? In most places, unless
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: someone is an immediate, articulate threat to themselves or others,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: like a 5150 hold, the police can't force them into treatment.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: They just have to leave.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: They just leave. How many wellness checks does it take
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: before a fractured system actually intervenes?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: From a purely legal standpoint, this journalistic investigation into nine
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: little logs is the real-world application of Professor Kling's central
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: point about the insanity defense.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: How so?
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: For Andrea Lyon and the defense team to succeed in
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: proving she could not appreciate the criminality of her actions,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: they usually need to establish a long documented history of
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: severe mental illness for the court.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: They need those 9-11 logs.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Yes. A sudden, unprecedented, uncharacteristic, psychotic break on a Tuesday
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: afternoon is incredibly difficult to defend in front of a jury.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: But a long documented spiral... a paper trail of desperation,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: failed interventions, and emergency calls, that provides the foundation.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: So those logs are gold for the defense.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Those 9-11 logs, those wellness checks, those hospital visits,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: they aren't just neighborhood gossip or background color for a
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: news article. They are the foundational evidence for the forensic
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: psychiatric evaluations that will ultimately determine whether she spends her
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: life in a prison cell or a hospital bed.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: We have covered a tremendous amount of ground here today
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: on this deep dive. And honestly, none of it is
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: easy to process.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: No, it's a very heavy topic. It is.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: We started with the unimaginable physical tragedy. The loss of
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a two-year-old boy and a mother facing up to a
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: century in prison without parole. We navigated the incredibly rigid,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: almost paradoxical labyrinth of the Illinois legal system's definition of insanity.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: The profound difference between being medically unwell and being legally
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: unable to appreciate criminality. We looked at the alarming systemic
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: battle happening right now over jailhouse medical care, highlighting the
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: friction between an institution built for custody and a mind
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: desperate for care. We analyzed the prosecution's claims of a
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: calculated poisoning plot against the defense's claims of an all-consuming psychosis.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: The compass analogy.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Exactly. And we looked at the chilling modern reality of
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a digital footprint, dissecting what it means to text about
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the Lindsay Clancy case just hours before reality completely fractured.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: It is a case that sits at the exact turbulent
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: intersection of criminal justice, forensic psychology, and societal responsibility. And
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: as we watch this investigation unfold, As reporters continue to
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: dig into those 911 dispatch logs and previous wellness checks,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I want to leave you with a final lingering thought
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: to consider. Long after this deep dive ends, if those
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: public records eventually reveal a long documented history of warning signs,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: if there were repeated wellness checks, desperate phone calls, and
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: medical interventions that ultimately failed to prevent this tragedy, does
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: our rigid courtroom definition of legal insanity even matter? Or
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: does the real tragedy lie in a societal system that
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: demands someone commit an irreversible crime before it finally provides
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: the acute, mandatory psychiatric care they were desperately signaling for
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: in the first place.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: That is, yeah. When the x-ray is murky, we really
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: have to look much closer at the machine taking the
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: picture and ask if it is even capable of diagnosing
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the problem. Thank you for joining us on this deep dive.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Keep questioning the narratives you see, keep looking for the
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: mechanisms behind the headlines, and we will see you next time.