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The Liberty Solution Why the State Can't Coexist With Freedom with Derek Wills S3-EP4 · SpaceTomatoes

• 0:00
  Something about big, long, flat things or something.
• 0:03
  And, you know, the impossibility of making roads or something.
• 0:09
  Don't you want to know how the roads will be made?
• 0:12
  Okay, I'll play that guy.
• 0:14
  So how are we going to pay for the roads if we don't have any taxes?
• 0:18
  How are we going to have police and fire and ambulance and all that stuff?
• 0:22
  I have never considered this before.
• 0:26
  Wow.
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  you know what full statism
• 0:31
  this solves everything
• 0:34
  actually oh wait
• 0:37
  no there is one quote
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  that I feel is pertinent to hear
• 0:41
  fuck them hoe ass roads
• 0:56
  all right everybody welcome back to another episode of the space tomatoes podcast i'm one
• 1:10
  of your hosts havoc the other guy lx how are you how you doing hello that that other guy yeah today
• 1:17
  we have with us a special guest uh derek wills uh also goes by ancap air and uh welcome to the
• 1:25
  Oh, and also the author of The Liberty Solution.
• 1:28
  And forgive me, I'm a little under the weather right now,
• 1:31
  so if my brain's a little fuzzy, yeah, bear with me.
• 1:35
  My brain's fuzzy all the time, so thank you very much for having me.
• 1:38
  Thank you for the invite.
• 1:39
  I'm excited to be here.
• 1:42
  You know, we've connected on both Nostra and X,
• 1:47
  and I've kind of become a fan of yours, so I appreciate the invite.
• 1:52
  And, yeah, I'm excited to be here, man.
• 1:54
  Awesome, man.
• 1:55
  I appreciate you giving us some of your time.
• 1:59
  It's always good to have a chat with some like-minded individuals, you know?
• 2:04
  Yeah.
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  I mean, it's better than the cesspool of social media, right?
• 2:10
  It is.
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  It is.
• 2:11
  It is.
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  And we've had some guests that, to be honest with you, you know, I love talking to people
• 2:20
  and hearing other people's stories, that kind of free and open exchange of ideas.
• 2:25
  but sometimes you go, geez, do I really want to talk to someone that did or does that?
• 2:32
  Yeah, okay, we'll talk to them.
• 2:36
  So it's kind of neat when we get to talk to someone that's, you know,
• 2:39
  one of the people that's like, yeah, I'm really excited about this one.
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  So help me understand.
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  So I'm really in awe of authors, right?
• 2:51
  I've tried to write a book.
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  I got about three pages in about 35 years ago, and that's where it is. That's it. So I have a lot of appreciation for people that can actually get the flow together, put something down on paper, and get it published. How was that process for you writing that book?
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  Writing is, so it opened my eyes to the stresses of writing. So I started writing op-eds and this
• 3:28
  was before I was a libertarian. I started my political journey as a hardcore Republican
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  and then transitioned to constitutional conservative types. And this was kind of in the
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  days of, you know, Facebook is just kind of becoming a thing. MySpace was like the prominent
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  social media. And, you know, I'm trying to figure out an outlet right on, you know,
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  cause I have all these ideas and I have, you know, I have these, these things that I want to tell
• 3:59
  people that just people aren't getting it. And at the time, again, I was a Republican. So my ideas
• 4:07
  were, you know, kind of wrong, but at the, but in the same token, I really wanted to get my ideas
• 4:12
  out there. And I was speaking with a friend of mine. Um, and she recommended, she goes,
• 4:17
  why don't you just try writing and see what happens? And you know, it, it kind of clicked
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  a little bit for me because, uh, well, you know, in high school I had a knack for writing. Um,
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  I never thought of it as like a hobby or something that I actually enjoyed.
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  I wrote people's papers for them for money, uh, because I was good at it. Right.
• 4:37
  Um, so I wish I would write people's papers. And so I was just like, you know what? Fine. Okay. I'm in my early twenties at this point. Um, and I start writing, I reach out to a couple of, um, conservative, uh, I guess blogs or outlets. And I said, Hey, look, I have some of these ideas. And, you know, finally, independent journal review was the first one to, uh, say, yeah, this is good. Let's publish it.
• 5:03
  And from there, I was just like, yeah, I'll keep writing.
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  And I was just like banging out these little op-eds or whatever.
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  But whenever I first started with an intention of writing a book, it changed everything.
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  Because, you know, going from op-eds, you're just like, okay, I'm going to write, you know, a thousand words.
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  It'll be good.
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  To, oh, shit, I have to outline this.
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  I have to organize this because it very quickly turns into hot garbage because it's like incoherent.
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  You have ideas going from, you know, coming out of left field into the middle of a paragraph that's on a completely different topic.
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  And, you know, again, I'm also ADHD.
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  So like, you know, ideas just pop in.
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  I'm like, I need to write this down because this is great.
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  And then it's like, oh, shit, this does not flow worth a shit at all.
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  Um, so writing a book is difficult. Um, and you know, I've written one, I've been writing the
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  second for like three years, um, and probably haven't put anything on a page in six, eight
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  months right now, as of now, um, it's difficult. It really is. Um, so the whole process is it was
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  trial and error. I don't know any other authors at the time that I started writing it. I didn't
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  know any other authors. I was like, how do I go about doing this? And then you get to the point,
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  and this is something that I've talked about elsewhere. When I first started writing the
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  book, it was kind of like a libertarian manifesto, but with the still like statist
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  undertones and the whole, whenever I finally had ideas down, I decided that the last chapter of the
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  book, I'm going to rewrite the constitution in a way that's going to be bomb proof and it's going
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  to secure everybody's liberty and blah, blah, blah. And I'm halfway through my writing it at
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  this point. And then I discover Murray Rothbard and I read for a new Liberty and it changed
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  everything. And I realized, Oh, I've got to rewrite about 90% of what I've already written.
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  So I had to, I literally had to go back and scrap everything and rewrite it. It is a process and
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  it's, um, it's, it's tough. It is difficult and you just got to stay focused and do it.
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  And I've been really bad with my latest book, uh, because I haven't been as focused as I should be.
• 7:44
  So to answer your question and a very long winded answer, it's a process and it is it is difficult and it takes a lot of focus.
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  Yeah, that's that's an interesting thing, because that was something that, you know, especially when it comes to, you know, liberty minded books.
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  Right. Your story seems to mirror mine.
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  Right. I grew up in a conservative household.
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  My father was, you know, captain in the Navy and, you know, so it was very regimented and strict.
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  And, you know, I had to roll my socks and stuff and, you know, tighten my bed down.
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  Like, like it was pretty insane.
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  But anyway, conservative household.
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  And, you know, at some point I'm like, this is something's not, this isn't right.
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  You know what I mean?
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  Like I just, this nagging, like there's something about this that just doesn't sit right.
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  um and i went through from there to you know oh tea party okay well there's this thing tea part
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  okay well this sounds maybe like it's more right and then i got in and i'm like yeah no that's that's
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  not it and then you know constitutional conservatism and i'm like um i don't know and then
• 9:01
  licender spooner and i'm like uh yeah no uh and then you know to big l libertarian and i'm like
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  yeah, this is just status light. It's like diet Coke, you know what I mean? And I'm like,
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  it's not, it's not sitting. And so, you know, having that journey and it, and it's still
• 9:20
  occurring today, right? I still have opinions forming. I still have things coming through my
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  brain. And if I were to sit down and try and write a book about liberty minded, you know,
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  solutions, I feel like I'd get halfway through and then I have to rewrite the whole half because
• 9:37
  it would be like okay yeah my i don't think i agree with that anymore and it does happen like
• 9:44
  even in my in the book there are two things that come to mind to me that are still there and i'm
• 9:51
  going to keep them there intentionally but um but things that i no longer fully subscribe to
• 9:57
  like i have a whole chapter on that's basically just shitting on anarcho-communism because that's
• 10:04
  you know, as an anarcho-capitalist, you know, that's the thing to do. But since publishing that,
• 10:11
  I've learned a lot about anarcho-communism. And though it's not my thing, I would never,
• 10:16
  I don't think I would want to live in an ANCOM commune. But I have learned that there is a way
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  at which such a society can exist and exist voluntarily. And if it does, then who the fuck
• 10:32
  am I to say, oh, you're doing anarchy wrong. And, you know, I've gotten some hate for it,
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  but it just shows that, you know, things continue to progress, you know, and if you're not progressing,
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  then you're not learning and you're not growing. You know, I have never said that my way is 100%
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  right. And if I ever have, that was very, very wrong. You know, I tried to be somebody who is
• 11:02
  open-minded and, you know, even if I don't necessarily fully understand the ideals and
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  the philosophies behind a particular framework, if I can still look at it objectively and say,
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  okay, well, if it's still voluntary, then it aligns with the greater philosophy that anarchists
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  are supposed to have. And that's something that I'm really trying desperately to get out there,
• 11:28
  because it seems like there aren't a lot of people who subscribe to that. You know,
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  ANCOMs are constantly saying ANCAPs are evil, and they should be killed. And then you have ANCAPs
• 11:38
  who are saying, hey, ANCOMs should get on this free helicopter ride. And it's just like, okay,
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  you know, we do have a real enemy right now who is literally oppressing each and every one of us
• 11:50
  the exact same way. Maybe we should focus on that. But it's crazy. And I've gotten some kickback for
• 12:01
  it, but that's just kind of how it goes, I guess. Well, the thing, so I'm 100% there with you,
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  right? And I'm sure you remember the Great Liberty Purge, right? What was that, like 2018,
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  19 19 or something like that i woke up one morning and i've like got all these notifications and i go
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  to check and there's no group and i'm like where is everyone yeah i'm doing this repeatedly and
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  i'm checking the next one and they're all gone i'm like what the hell but you know there there
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  there was a lot of you know that right and cap and calm and sock you know the anarcho-socialists
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  right which are i don't know but you know i i uh ended up engaging with a guy who's a mutualist
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  which is very uh aligned with the ancom and sock side of the house right and and i not a big fan of calling them left anarchists or right anarchists The thing that really struck it home for me was okay wait
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  So the basic premise is I can do what I want and I don't impede others from doing what they want.
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  Right.
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  Don't harm people.
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  Don't harm their stuff.
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  Allow them to do what they would like to do.
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  And, you know, you are the same.
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  Right.
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  So how does that translate to, well, you can't be, you know, you know, a Penoche type like response of helicopter rides or a tanky response of, you know, you know, killing everyone.
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  And, you know, it's like, OK, but that's not anarchy, right?
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  That's not an anarchist ideal, right?
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  The basic premise is you go do what you want.
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  I personally kind of found myself landing, you know, more in the individualist type of a place, right?
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  Uh, I, I don't subscribe to the and calm and sock, uh, you know, stuff.
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  And, and while I, I lean far more towards and cap, uh, I'm, I'm more of a, I just, you
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  know, I just want my stuff.
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  I just want to be me and I'll, I'll engage with and comms.
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  I might trade and barter in, you know, time or effort or whatever it needs and sock and
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  cap.
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  I don't really care.
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  Right.
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  is my thing. What your economic ideals are is your thing. And if it works for you,
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  and your people are allowed the liberty to choose to be involved in it, then who am I to say it's
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  wrong? Exactly. Absolutely. The other thing that's still in my book is I very definitively say
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  whenever it comes to the topic of immigration, is that while we should have open immigration,
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  I very clearly state that you cannot do that as long as the welfare state exists.
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  And on its face, that sounds correct. Until you start digging into the numbers and the statistics
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  behind welfare consumption in this country, you realize that it's not a prerequisite.
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  I mean, the welfare state should absolutely be abolished because the state itself should
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  be abolished because the extortion of property via taxation is evil and unethical.
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  And its subsequent redistribution is also fraudulent, unethical, and evil.
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  Um, but I, I no longer subscribe to the idea that, oh, this X has to happen first in order
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  for Y to be even a plausible solution.
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  Um, you know, I, I wrote an essay on this called, um, immigration, the state and the
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  great parasite.
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  And, uh, it breaks down the numbers using what I would consider hostile sources from,
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  you know, anti-immigration think tanks talking about how much welfare consumption immigrants
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  who are undocumented eat up in this country. And you realize in the grand scheme of things that
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  that's basically one day of federal spending at large for the entire year. So that's a
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  statistical anomaly. You know, that's a, that's a, that's a, oh, I accidentally, you know, I fudged
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  the numbers by accident. I can fix that really quickly. It's still evil. It's still, you know,
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  needs to not happen, but the greater evil of then using, you know, I guess twice the amount of
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  welfare spending on undocumented immigrants, using twice that amount in order to enforce
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  border controls and physically remove and initiate violence against people who have not actually
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  harmed anybody. And people point to the state saying, oh, well, you know, this person, they
• 17:00
  said this person was a murderer and this person was a pedophile and this person was a rapist.
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  And it's like, that's coming from the state. I, it could be true. It could not be, but they haven't
• 17:09
  harmed anybody here. Who are you going to trust this person that they have initiated violence
• 17:16
  against or the state which literally lies about everything. And I don't disagree with removing
• 17:25
  people who are committing evil acts against others from society via ostracism and voluntary
• 17:34
  disassociation. But I still don't agree with using violence against people who aren't an active
• 17:40
  threat. Violence should be reserved for defensive use and from a defensive posture only.
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  the threat of violence should never exist except for if you initiate violence against me,
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  then I will return in kind. And it is very likely that one of us will not be alive anymore.
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  But, you know, and I forget the, you know, what I was trying to cover here, but, you know,
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  I kind of went off on this tangent and it's, it's, it's just funny and sad to see how many
• 18:15
  quote unquote libertarians are supporting this sort of evil. You know, they're supposed to be
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  people who champion liberty and what is more libertarian of an ideal than freedom of movement?
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  You know, regardless if you're, if you're, you know, ANCAP, ANCOM, right-wing libertarian,
• 18:39
  left-wing libertarian, whatever. If you have the authority to deny somebody their movement,
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  and I would argue that stops at your property line. The left-leaning libertarians might have
• 18:56
  a different definition of where that stops, but you're inhibiting the free movement of people.
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  If anything, the left-wing libertarians would be more open to the idea of where people are allowed
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  to pass through, whereas I'm more restrictive on my specific individual property line, right?
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  So I don't understand how anybody can sit there with a straight face and say that,
• 19:22
  oh yeah, some immigration controls are in line with the greater libertarian philosophy.
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  It just doesn't make any sense to me.
• 19:31
  Yeah, no, I completely agree on that.
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  It's an imaginary line.
• 19:36
  Um, you know, I mean, even, even our own constitution, you know, if you, if you just want to go back to that and be a statey for a minute, you know, our own constitution gives, you know, us a right to movement, a right to travel.
• 19:51
  Right. So, you know, the it's, you know, and I think a lot of it is grounded in that monetary piece. And what people don't understand is that monetary piece, like you said, is, is literally like, you know, not even a full drop of water in the bucket. Right. It's like a bit of mist that gets shot out above it, you know?
• 20:15
  And, you know, I brought this up, I think, a few times, but back in like the 2000 time range, I saw this statistic on, you know, how much money is spent per person that, you know, receives welfare in general.
• 20:30
  and what was striking to me i didn't believe it i thought there's no way so i went and started
• 20:37
  pulling information doing my own research and it turned out that approximately 85 000 per person
• 20:44
  at the lowest you know at the you know the poverty level that they receive uh 85 000 goes into the
• 20:51
  system and the recipient gets 12,500. Now, if you're mad at anything about that, maybe be mad
• 21:00
  about the 60 some odd thousand dollars that never even made it to the recipient because it was paying
• 21:06
  for all the chud. Yeah. Nobody talks about the bloat of government. You know, I know that
• 21:14
  Republicans like to pretend to, but they really, they really don't. They just want a big government
• 21:20
  that's aligned with their ideals and enforcing the tyranny that they agree with.
• 21:25
  There's nothing small government about Republicans.
• 21:28
  There's certainly nothing small government about Democrats.
• 21:31
  And I would argue that, well, the Libertarian Party is kind of a –
• 21:36
  it's kind of a dumpster fire.
• 21:42
  Whenever they're –
• 21:44
  It got lit on fire pretty bad recently.
• 21:47
  Man, I don't know what the hell happened.
• 21:48
  And I was like, what?
• 21:50
  You're doing what?
• 21:52
  No, you're putting, wait, what?
• 21:55
  We're going, no, come on now.
• 21:58
  Yeah, no, until the big L libertarians can figure out
• 22:05
  how to not embarrass themselves on national TV
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  or on social media,
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  they're not going to be able to do too terribly much.
• 22:16
  you know um you know i i saw that justin amash was there okay great he's a he is a good person
• 22:22
  to have aligned with the libertarian party and then you have others that i'm not going to mention
• 22:28
  that are you know doing things that are very anti-libertarian on camera and um you know and
• 22:38
  we're not i say we like i'm a member i'm not a member of the lp but you know the libertarian
• 22:43
  Party is not doing anything to be like, okay, this is very anti-libertarian. You are no longer
• 22:49
  a member of the party because they will feel like, oh, that's authoritarian. It's like, no,
• 22:54
  you, as an organization, you do have the right, you know, as the leaders of the organization to
• 23:02
  set standards that should be met. That doesn't mean that you're a statist. It just means that,
• 23:08
  oh, you know, maybe we want to have this particular type of image.
• 23:12
  And if you are throwing Nazi salutes, that's not in line with those standards.
• 23:20
  So, yeah, you know what I mean?
• 23:22
  Yeah.
• 23:23
  I mean, you know, man, you know, really throwing Nazi salutes because I really know nothing
• 23:30
  about any of this stuff.
• 23:31
  That's why I'm just kind of sitting here being quiet because I like I pretty much opt out
• 23:35
  of the entire system because I don't know anything about it,
• 23:37
  and I'm really not particularly interested in it, to be honest.
• 23:41
  But I don't know.
• 23:42
  Funny enough, I do not want to follow the LNC right now,
• 23:50
  but I have a lot of good people that I am mutuals with
• 23:54
  that are very big into the LP,
• 23:58
  and I have nothing but respect for them.
• 24:01
  But because we're mutual follows,
• 24:03
  I see some of these things and I, I don't care the context. I don't care, uh, you know,
• 24:11
  what's happening. That's, it's very clearly a Nazi salute and getting called out by those people as
• 24:16
  a Nazi salute. And earlier I saw that that same person was later arrested for allegedly slapping
• 24:23
  somebody. I don't know, but anyway, um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you know, for me, the, the thing,
• 24:33
  And honestly, I like I it was one of those things you just wanted to like stand up and just start screaming like, what are you doing?
• 24:41
  What are you fucking doing when when we had, you know, dumbass Donnie was brought on.
• 24:49
  You know, I'm not a part of that. I'm not. I have no affiliation with any political party, nor will I ever have.
• 24:56
  Yeah. And but, you know, bringing that and throwing support behind it. I was just like, whoa, wait a second here. Someone go grab Ron Paul real quick. Yeah. You guys you guys took a way wrong turn somewhere and we're not even on the same map. OK. You know.
• 25:15
  Yeah. And how can the Libertarian Party claim to be the party of principle whenever they go from one day chastising Donald Trump to the next day endorsing him or at least voicing their support for him?
• 25:30
  I just I can't say that that's that's anything principled.
• 25:36
  Granted, the one thing, the one good thing that Donald Trump has done was pardon Ross Ulrich.
• 25:42
  That's something that absolutely needed to happen.
• 25:45
  He didn't do it because he thought it was the right thing to do.
• 25:48
  He did it for clout.
• 25:50
  And and, you know, yes, Ross is free and that's a good thing.
• 25:55
  But look at all of the other subsequent evils that Donald Trump has directly caused since being president And what about Snowden What about Assange Right I mean sure he you know he commuted the sentence for Assange but he not pardoned
• 26:11
  Right.
• 26:11
  Yeah.
• 26:12
  And, you know, we could just go down the list, right, of people that are, you know, in my
• 26:17
  opinion unjustly uh being targeted or or charged or pursued for actions that by all rights were
• 26:29
  liberty leaning and and should be they should be lawful right you know i don't agree with the the
• 26:36
  concept of lawful but in you know where we live they should be yeah but it it's indicative of just
• 26:46
  how much, how evil the state can be. I mean, you look at Dexter Taylor, who is now sitting in a
• 26:53
  New York prison for making his own personal firearms. You have Roger Ver, who is exiled
• 27:00
  into, you know, in Spain because he didn't want to be part of the, those individuals ruled by the
• 27:08
  United States government anymore and didn't want to pay their extortion fee to exit. You have
• 27:14
  Edward Snowden, who saw some very, very bad things taking place at the National Security
• 27:20
  Administration, exposed them and was exiled to Russia before he could actually make it to his
• 27:27
  final destination, which I think was like Argentina or something. I don't know. But,
• 27:32
  you know, you have all of these people who have done nothing to harm anybody but the state.
• 27:40
  if any harm was done, it was done to the state. And they take that so seriously that they will
• 27:46
  happily murder you to do to enforce that. And then, you know, not to mention, if you just look
• 27:53
  at a page like police, the police and see all the things that cops do on a daily basis and you and,
• 28:00
  you know, the excuses of, oh, it's just a few bad apples. Like, OK, how many bad apples does it take
• 28:05
  to, uh, or how many, how many bad apples would need to be in your bunch before you're like,
• 28:11
  okay, I just need to throw this entire bunch out because, uh, it's getting a little too much.
• 28:16
  You know, I think, uh, the saying, the saying goes, you know, everyone likes to say that bad
• 28:21
  apples. Okay. Well, let's, let's follow it all the way through the, the saying goes one bad apple
• 28:27
  ruins the bunch. It's not, it's not, Oh, it's just a bad apple. It's that bunch is now ruined
• 28:34
  because of one bad apple.
• 28:37
  Yeah.
• 28:38
  I mean, any cop that has ever tried to do anything
• 28:45
  has either been reassigned or fired.
• 28:49
  You know, Chris Dorner was one of those
• 28:51
  who tried to expose the racism within the LAPD
• 28:56
  and just got dismissed, essentially.
• 29:01
  And that's what led to his violent spree,
• 29:04
  which he probably shouldn't have gone on, if we're being honest.
• 29:08
  But at the same time, what he exposed was very real, and nothing was done about it.
• 29:16
  People should really understand that there is no good political solution to anything.
• 29:23
  The government, the state, is inherently evil just by existing.
• 29:29
  You know, it cannot exist in a voluntary form.
• 29:34
  You know, I have heard people say, well, what if we just make taxation voluntary?
• 29:38
  I'm like, the state would collapse because it does not – it is incapable of enforcing its own rules because, one, it wouldn't have the money to be able to do that.
• 29:50
  And two, if it is, quote unquote, voluntary, then that means that private solutions can pop up and do it much more efficiently at a much lower cost, at a much higher quality, that people will happily give their money to them anyway.
• 30:02
  And the state apparatus, if not coercive, would just collapse and become encapistan in my view.
• 30:07
  so it's impossible for the state to exist in a station that is one equal to those they claim
• 30:15
  to quote unquote serve uh and two in any sort of ethical you know and any sort of ethical way
• 30:22
  because it has to extort people from their from their property to fund itself it has to do so with
• 30:27
  inherent threat of violence and uh the the fiction that they say that oh we work for you no you don't
• 30:36
  The state did not and has never worked for, quote unquote, the people. The state by its definition has to be superior to the people in order to enforce its edicts. That's how hierarchy works. The difference between a hierarchy that I would find to be valid and Kapistan is that it's voluntary.
• 30:56
  I can walk out of a company that I don't want to work for because I don't like their policies and go work for someplace else.
• 31:03
  And they're not going to extort from me or say, oh, you owe us every piece of income that we've ever paid you.
• 31:10
  The worst that they might say is, hey, we gave you a sign-on bonus that you were committed to committing X number of months or X number of years, and you didn't complete that.
• 31:21
  Therefore, you owe us that, and it's contractual.
• 31:23
  but that's voluntary agreed to voluntarily agreed to beforehand.
• 31:28
  That's contractual. That's the whole thing.
• 31:30
  And they like to say that this is a, you know, contract, right?
• 31:33
  A social contract is like, show me where I signed.
• 31:36
  Show me, show me where anyone said, yes, I agree to this.
• 31:40
  And, you know, I'm going to go ahead and engage with you in a,
• 31:44
  in a mutually beneficial way.
• 31:46
  And here's my signature on the contract. It doesn't exist. Right.
• 31:50
  But, yeah, it's maddening at times dealing with that particular thing.
• 31:57
  I think LX has a question, though.
• 31:59
  Something about big, long, flat things or something and, you know, the impossibility of making roads or something.
• 32:09
  Don't you want to know how the roads will be made?
• 32:12
  Okay, I'll play that guy.
• 32:14
  So how are we going to pay for the roads if we don't have any taxes?
• 32:17
  how we're going to have police and fire and ambulance and all that stuff
• 32:22
  i have never considered this before wow uh yeah i you know what full statism this this
• 32:32
  solves everything um actually oh wait no there was there is one quote that i i feel
• 32:40
  is pertinent to hear fuck them hoe ass roads
• 32:43
  yeah we we actually had another gentleman on uh also an end cap and uh we were talking a little
• 32:55
  bit about that and a simple solution is this if you want a road somewhere go build it and uh if
• 33:01
  your neighbors all want to get somewhere and you want to get somewhere you all pitch in you make a
• 33:05
  road uh if it has to be something bigger than that then you need the support of the people to
• 33:11
  build the road they all actually want right and that's the big difference maybe it gets us away
• 33:19
  from eating avocados on the east coast in february you know yeah no no yeah um and the thing is there
• 33:32
  are so many different ways at which a road could be produced, managed and maintained without a
• 33:40
  centralized monopoly on violence doing it. You know, private industry using toll roads or
• 33:47
  subscription fees or even just voluntary communities coming together and saying, yeah,
• 33:53
  we're going to build and maintain these roads because it's it's better for the community.
• 33:57
  oh wait is that communist if community is uh oh wait we are see see i kind of tied this together
• 34:06
  as oh voluntary people doing voluntary things and it actually can possibly work um you know
• 34:13
  there how you had dominoes doing a freaking uh pothole filling uh a few years back and it was
• 34:20
  wonderful. It was just great. But, you know, let's, let's, let's figure out how to maintain
• 34:29
  a flat piece of concrete or asphalt. You know, we'll create, you know, innovative technologies
• 34:36
  and, you know, machines that can do things beyond human comprehension for the layman.
• 34:44
  But we can't figure out how to have a flat piece of concrete or asphalt for people to drive their vehicles on without a monopoly on violence extorting you from it.
• 34:56
  I mean, I live fairly rural, right?
• 34:59
  And I have about a 300-yard long driveway.
• 35:04
  Nobody maintains that but me.
• 35:07
  So it's a long, flat thing.
• 35:10
  And it works perfectly well.
• 35:12
  Does it?
• 35:12
  It's a little bumpy right now.
• 35:13
  Yeah. It's a little bumpy in one area. I need to get out there and do some repairs, you know, fix a pothole. But, you know, and it wasn't that long ago in time, right, where out here, most of the roads were taken care of by the people that lived here.
• 35:30
  Yeah, they weren't paved. And so, you know, there are numerous ways to go around these things. And, you know, I always like to bring that up because I think it's important for people that don't understand the philosophy of anarchism in general to understand that they're, you know, a lot of the times the reply will be somewhat dismissive from some of us, myself included.
• 35:58
  right um you know the long long flat things who who could possibly engineer such a solution right
• 36:05
  and and that's not helpful it's not right yeah i think it's it's more helpful to have that
• 36:12
  discussion and talk you know so that people understand right look the roads aren't built
• 36:17
  by the government right yeah the government extorts money from you and then a portion of
• 36:23
  that goes to their friends who are contractors that do road building, private citizens that their
• 36:30
  job, they go work for a company X, Y, Z, and that company just happens to be taking money from the
• 36:37
  government. You could circumvent the middleman right out of the gate. And you'd probably remember
• 36:44
  what I said, 85,000, 12,500. Okay. These roads are really expensive. You might find that you get
• 36:51
  built for a fraction of the cost and maybe in a fraction of the time um you know i live in the
• 36:58
  dallas fort worth area and i-35 has been under construction for i believe 50 years now um
• 37:09
  it's almost done though right yeah right right right um it's funny there's a strip of highway
• 37:17
  outside of my neighborhood.
• 37:20
  Whenever I first moved in here,
• 37:22
  they were doing construction on it,
• 37:26
  widening it out.
• 37:27
  And they actually completed it like two years ago.
• 37:32
  They have it ripped up again to widen it even more.
• 37:36
  And I was like-
• 37:37
  They just did that here.
• 37:38
  It's a common thing.
• 37:39
  We put in a brand new freeway.
• 37:42
  And the next thing you know,
• 37:44
  it's you know being closed down in certain areas to widen it and and you know all this stuff it's
• 37:50
  like you just built the thing yeah what the heck you know you know there's mean these contractors
• 37:56
  i mean you don't think about them they have like boats and and side-by-side atvs and expensive
• 38:03
  suvs to pay for that stuff's just not gonna you know pay for itself you know there's one other
• 38:08
  solution that doesn't get talked about nearly as much but i think it would probably become
• 38:12
  one of the most popular means by which roads are provided in any geographic area in a stateless
• 38:22
  society. And people see it all the time whenever they drive on a freeway and it says adopt a highway
• 38:29
  and it has a company name who is sponsoring that strip of freeway. I have a feeling that something
• 38:37
  like that would probably become so prevalent and the main means by which highways and major
• 38:46
  traveling through ways would be provided. And it wouldn't be this fear of, hey, I have a toll booth
• 38:54
  at my driveway and won let me out until I pay the toll That just not a realistic solution because another thing that people need to remember is that the free market is supreme The free market would reject any sort of impediment like that just outright
• 39:10
  And if nothing changed, it could actually turn violent very quickly against the company
• 39:17
  trying to do that because at that point, it's like borderline extortion, if not outrightly so.
• 39:23
  you know i don't actually have a problem with toll roads but like you said not not just to you know
• 39:29
  get out of your house and go you know right but if someone makes a better road and and you know
• 39:35
  let's say you know i don't know you know blamazon okay new company uh and uh they decide hey you
• 39:43
  know this this road just it's great it's there but gosh it takes you know an hour to get there
• 39:48
  and if we just built this road over here it'd take 20 minutes but we're going to go ahead and
• 39:53
  do that and put a toll on it, right? Yeah. Okay, great. A hundred percent. Go put your, put your
• 39:57
  billboards up, electronic billboards and advertise to your heart's content. I don't care, you know?
• 40:05
  And, and I think the same is true with other infrastructure, right? Hospitals. Now you may
• 40:11
  not appreciate sitting in your hospital bed with a TV screen that pops on every hour for, you know,
• 40:17
  three minutes to show you an ad or something, but you know, Hey,
• 40:21
  can I get hospital premium? So I don't have to see these ads.
• 40:27
  Subscription service, no ads at the hospital.
• 40:29
  Yeah.
• 40:30
  You started that back in the nineties when I was in high school,
• 40:32
  they had this company come in,
• 40:35
  put a TVs in all the classrooms for free. And then, you know,
• 40:37
  like you had to watch Doritos and Coke commercials and every morning.
• 40:41
  So, I mean, it's like, I'm hitting the fun, everything, I guess.
• 40:44
  I'm hitting the morphine button and it says before your,
• 40:47
  your morphine is applied,
• 40:49
  please watch this 30 second.
• 40:54
  Oh gosh.
• 40:57
  It could happen,
• 40:58
  man.
• 40:59
  It could.
• 40:59
  And while I'm not big on the whole subscription model for everything,
• 41:03
  right?
• 41:03
  I mean,
• 41:03
  I right now I'm very annoyed by some of that.
• 41:07
  Oh yeah.
• 41:07
  No,
• 41:08
  no.
• 41:08
  I,
• 41:08
  I was talking about YouTube just recently.
• 41:12
  I there.
• 41:13
  So I usually will use the Brave browser whenever I'm watching YouTube because I travel a lot.
• 41:19
  And they natively block YouTube ads.
• 41:22
  But whenever I'm at home, I watch on my Apple TV and it doesn't, I can't do that.
• 41:29
  Even with like a pie hole set up because of the way that pie hole works.
• 41:32
  You can't natively block that.
• 41:35
  And I actually looked at YouTube premium.
• 41:40
  And then I was instantly turned off.
• 41:42
  I'm like $16 a month for an individual or $28 a month for family.
• 41:48
  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 41:51
  And it's funny that people think that my criticism of this means that I'm anti-capitalist.
• 41:58
  Yeah, I've had some on the more left side of economic scale say, well, in your ideal
• 42:06
  world, this will be the norm.
• 42:07
  I'm like, no, not really, because in my ideal economic world, the free market would reject those types of things.
• 42:18
  And it wouldn't be beneficial because, you know, from my perspective.
• 42:23
  Or you would just simply have people develop things like NewPipe and the Brave Browser.
• 42:31
  Yeah.
• 42:33
  Competition would come in to solve the problem for you.
• 42:36
  Exactly.
• 42:37
  Exactly. You would have free markets innovating in a way to bring people what they want in a way that's at least invasive to them, whatever that may be.
• 42:51
  You know, even if somebody came in and made it made like a YouTube alternative and it's like, look, we will charge you five dollars a month.
• 42:59
  This price is locked in for you for life or for 10 years or whatever.
• 43:05
  If we raise our prices, we won't raise them on you specifically.
• 43:10
  Oh, hey, that's a much better deal.
• 43:12
  I'd jump on that immediately.
• 43:15
  But, you know, we don't live in that type of world.
• 43:18
  We pretend that we do, but we don't have anything reminiscent of a free market.
• 43:24
  A lot of these megacorporations like Google and Amazon are only able to achieve this level of mass because of the state.
• 43:40
  You wouldn't have megacorporations in Ancapistan.
• 43:44
  It just wouldn't be a thing.
• 43:45
  The only way that you could theoretically do that is if somebody if a company provides something so well that nobody even wants additional competition.
• 43:54
  And that's a valid monopoly because nobody they're doing it perfectly.
• 43:58
  Why would I want?
• 44:00
  No, this is fine.
• 44:00
  This is innovative.
• 44:01
  It gives me what I want.
• 44:03
  But it isn't a monopoly, right?
• 44:06
  Right.
• 44:06
  And Kapistan, it would be a monopoly as long as the population said, this is what we want.
• 44:13
  Exactly.
• 44:14
  The second someone comes out with something better, it's no longer a monopoly.
• 44:20
  But, you know, and also, and this is something that a lot of people don't seem to, who aren't familiar with the anarcho-capitalist philosophy.
• 44:28
  They don't understand that the very idea of a corporation is invalid.
• 44:34
  You know, they think that you would have these mega corporations, you know, ruling everything.
• 44:38
  And it's like, first of all, a corporation is a legal fiction created by the state.
• 44:42
  It is a protection against the people who run that company from having their assets being something that can be claimed in a tort or something along those lines.
• 44:56
  You would have – you probably have – you would have stakeholders.
• 45:00
  You would have something that looks like a corporation.
• 45:03
  but if they started to do things in a very shady way and you needed private arbitration to get
• 45:09
  involved, it would be very bad for them personally, not just, oh, the company needs to write a quick
• 45:17
  check to get this person to shut up. No, your personal assets could be on the line here
• 45:23
  because you no longer have this legal protection from the state. So you wouldn't like, it just
• 45:31
  would be so fundamentally different. I don't know how else to say it other than that. It's just,
• 45:39
  it would not be, the Amazon of Ancapistan would not be anything like the Amazon of today. The
• 45:46
  Google of Ancapistan would not be anything like the Google of today. They probably wouldn't even
• 45:50
  be nearly as large. No, they wouldn't. And I think a big piece to that a lot of people don't
• 45:56
  understand is is it goes back to government choosing winners right um and the fact of the
• 46:03
  matter is like if i go build a shop and i do you know my own thing and and whatever it's all on me
• 46:10
  right yeah if if you know amazon wants to open up a new facility the government starts courting
• 46:15
  yes we'll you know we'll build a you know a rail line directly up to your warehouse we'll
• 46:23
  put a freeway on ramp and off ramp that's going to be great for trucks we'll give you you know
• 46:28
  all this land and we won't tax you on it that's just about to bring up tax cuts yeah and and all
• 46:35
  this stuff is given to them basically for free whereas you know a mom pop shop doesn't get that
• 46:41
  same thing right no and kapistan or any of the you know anarcho style uh ideologies you would be on
• 46:49
  your own. So that growth would be limited by the people's willingness to pay you for your product.
• 46:56
  Yes, 100%. And shareholders would also not, they would probably be like, oh, wait,
• 47:05
  the company is doing what? And for that reason, I'm out, I'm selling all my shares. And I'm also
• 47:10
  going to just let everybody know what you're doing here because it's unethical or whatever.
• 47:15
  you know another thing that a lot of people don't seem to realize is just how much value
• 47:23
  somebody's reputation actually carries and in a statist world it carries no value but in the
• 47:31
  reality of an anarchist society a stateless society your reputation is everything because
• 47:38
  it, it, your reputation is the driver behind whether or not people want to engage in with,
• 47:45
  with you in business in, or even just being your friend, you know, like, uh, you know,
• 47:52
  if you're, if you're an asshole, okay, fine.
• 47:54
  You'll have some asshole friends, but, uh, society won't want to do business with you.
• 48:00
  If you have a, uh, if you have a bad habit of extorting people or making fraudulent claims
• 48:06
  or raising money and doing rug pulls or any of these other things.
• 48:12
  It's a self-correcting system and a self-policing system in a lot of ways
• 48:17
  because the state actually gives people a false sense of security.
• 48:22
  It says, if somebody does this, then we will take care of it.
• 48:26
  Therefore, you don't need to worry about it.
• 48:29
  Whereas without this facade of a fabricated safety net,
• 48:36
  People would have to be vigilant about those they do business with.
• 48:40
  They would need to fully understand, okay, this person, let me see what else they've done and actually do research.
• 48:47
  There would probably be companies that spurred out of the ground specifically to do this type of thing.
• 48:54
  Their whole business model is, hey, look, if you're trying to get involved in a business dealing or trade dealing or something with somebody, we can, you know, I don't know.
• 49:05
  they might even be able to use it doing blockchain technology.
• 49:08
  I don't know.
• 49:09
  The thing is the possibilities are endless without a state apparatus crushing
• 49:13
  innovation.
• 49:14
  And you can have a real,
• 49:16
  and I know that it gets shit on because whenever the state would do it,
• 49:21
  it would be terrible.
• 49:22
  But a social credit system in an anarchist world is not the same as a social
• 49:27
  credit system in a statist world.
• 49:28
  A social credit system in an anarchist world is purely voluntary and it is
• 49:32
  factual.
• 49:33
  And it is something that we already have those right in, you know, like you have friends, right? Yeah. I mean, you did. That's what a social credit system is in the real world. Right.
• 49:50
  Heard me enough times, I'm done with you.
• 49:52
  Exactly.
• 49:54
  Right?
• 49:55
  So, you know, it already exists.
• 49:57
  And that's, you know, that web of trust type of an approach, right?
• 50:01
  And I think it's a really good one, personally.
• 50:05
  Yeah.
• 50:05
  What are your ideas?
• 50:07
  So, I didn't read your book, sorry.
• 50:10
  It's okay.
• 50:10
  I'm, like, so far behind on books.
• 50:13
  Like, the book that one of the original ideas for the show, yeah,
• 50:19
  we were going to read this book and then do a discussion on it. And yeah, I still haven't
• 50:23
  finished it. So a couple of years, man, you'll get to it. Right. But so what are your thoughts on IP,
• 50:31
  intellectual property? So I actually don't cover this in the book, but I do have a chapter called
• 50:37
  the two forms of property. I didn't think that going into IP would be necessary. I thought it
• 50:43
  would kind of take away. I consider IP to be more of a kind of an advanced, semi-advanced level.
• 50:49
  Whereas I wrote this book more as a primer. IP doesn't exist. It isn't real. It is, you can't
• 50:58
  own an idea. You can't steal an idea because theft requires the actual deprivation of somebody out
• 51:07
  of something that is rightfully theirs. Some people do like to go make the argument that,
• 51:13
  oh, if you pirate music, then you are depriving them of sales. That's not a guarantee. You can't
• 51:24
  lay a claim to something that hasn't happened. And there is no guarantee that that would have
• 51:28
  actually been a sale for one. But aside from all of that, I like to use the chocolate chip cookie
• 51:36
  analogy for this because it really helps people understand why IP is not valid.
• 51:45
  If IP were valid,
• 51:47
  then the first person to make the chocolate chip cookie owns the recipe for the
• 51:51
  chocolate chip cookie.
• 51:52
  And if anybody else wants to make a chocolate chip cookie,
• 51:55
  they have to get explicit permission from the person who first made the
• 51:59
  chocolate chip cookie in order to make a chocolate chip cookie.
• 52:04
  Now,
• 52:04
  they could tweak the recipe a little bit, but then you have to prove, oh, I tweaked the recipe
• 52:10
  a little bit. Well, how'd you have my recipe? How'd you know what my recipe was? And then you
• 52:14
  start going into this back and forth. That's kind of unprovable, but also kind of provable,
• 52:19
  just because we live in a world of 8 billion people. And I'm sure that there has been
• 52:25
  more than one occasion where two people on opposite sides of the globe have had the exact
• 52:29
  same idea pop into their head. So, but intellectual property is a fiction because, like I said,
• 52:38
  you can't own an idea and you can't steal an idea. If you have an idea and I legitimately
• 52:43
  go into your computer and steal your notes for that, I've created a cyber security threat by
• 52:51
  trespass, but I haven't deprived you of anything, really. I've copied something, but if anything,
• 52:57
  the only thing I'm guilty of is trespass.
• 53:00
  But again, going back to the chocolate chip cookie,
• 53:03
  imagine a world where you have to license chocolate chip cookies
• 53:07
  or peanut butter cookies or croissants or anything.
• 53:11
  Or a favorite song for recognizing an additional calendar year having passed.
• 53:19
  Yeah.
• 53:20
  Just saying, like, I can't sing it on here because.
• 53:23
  Because you have to pay a royalty,
• 53:25
  which is why every restaurant changes the way that they sing that song because
• 53:29
  they don't want to pay the royalty.
• 53:32
  It's just,
• 53:33
  it's nonsensical.
• 53:34
  And this is actually one of those things that took me a little bit to really
• 53:37
  fully understand because coming from being a constitutional conservative,
• 53:41
  I was like,
• 53:42
  well,
• 53:42
  you know,
• 53:43
  I can kind of see like if somebody takes it and I'll,
• 53:48
  I'll talk about one of my favorite quote unquote IPs is star Wars.
• 53:51
  I'm a big star Wars fan.
• 53:53
  and Disney has absolutely destroyed Star Wars.
• 53:58
  And right now you have fans trying to make fan films
• 54:03
  that have to go through like so much legal bullshit
• 54:07
  in order to not get paid for fan films
• 54:13
  that they're creating and spending their own capital on.
• 54:16
  And I find that to be very, very disheartening
• 54:18
  because it's like you have these people
• 54:20
  who are truly passionate about, you know,
• 54:23
  Star Wars and the story that George Lucas created. And they're not trying to steal from that. They're
• 54:30
  trying to hold on to what they love. And they're trying to tell a story that they think would be,
• 54:37
  would resonate, but they can't tell it the way that they want because Disney will crush them.
• 54:44
  So it is stifled innovation in that sense, instead of, Oh, Disney seeing somebody create a fan film
• 54:51
  and it's very popular.
• 54:53
  And then Disney coming in and be like,
• 54:54
  hey, we'd like to work with you.
• 54:56
  You've got some great ideas.
• 54:57
  Clearly it resonates with the Star Wars fandom.
• 55:00
  Let's bring you in and help have you on our storyboards
• 55:04
  so that way we can actually make a good Star Wars movie
• 55:08
  for the first time since we've owned it.
• 55:11
  But there's another side of IP
• 55:14
  that does not get talked about nearly enough.
• 55:17
  And I use Rocky as a very good example of this.
• 55:21
  You know, Sylvester Stallone created Rocky and he grinded to get Rocky made into a film.
• 55:31
  And the IP laws have prevented him from making his story the way that he wanted it in the subsequent sequels, which is why you have like, you know, the Creed films and things like that.
• 55:46
  That's not the direction that Stallone wanted to go with his story.
• 55:50
  He said that he would have had like eight Rocky movies if he had been able to own his story.
• 55:58
  But because he had to sell the IP rights in order to get Rocky made, he lost control of it.
• 56:06
  And he can't even tell the story that he wants, even outside of that apparatus, because the license owners for the IP owners for Rocky would crush him legally.
• 56:21
  It's also quite anti-competitive, right?
• 56:24
  I mean, you create a product, right?
• 56:27
  I think this is more so in the product space, but I think it bleeds out pretty much everywhere.
• 56:32
  but you create a product and you hold the patent on that idea,
• 56:36
  whatever that is.
• 56:39
  And at that point,
• 56:40
  nobody else can develop it.
• 56:42
  Right.
• 56:42
  They can't make it better.
• 56:44
  Like maybe someone comes along and goes,
• 56:45
  Hey,
• 56:46
  you know what?
• 56:46
  I can tweak this and make it better.
• 56:48
  No,
• 56:48
  you can't because that's my,
• 56:50
  my patent.
• 56:51
  That's my,
• 56:51
  you know,
• 56:52
  IP.
• 56:53
  And so we end up with,
• 56:55
  in my opinion,
• 56:56
  things that are,
• 56:57
  are,
• 56:57
  you know,
• 56:58
  really cool from the IP,
• 57:00
  but they could be so much more if there wasn't like that lock on it.
• 57:05
  Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, it stifles innovation. It's, it's, it,
• 57:09
  it suppresses creativity because you,
• 57:12
  people don't even attempt to try to do these things because they know what the
• 57:17
  consequences will be, you know? And, you know,
• 57:23
  Prince was another huge advocate of people, you know,
• 57:27
  being able to own their own ideas and, you know, well,
• 57:32
  that's not probably not the right way to frame that, but he,
• 57:35
  he was against the people having the ability to dictate what his ideas were
• 57:43
  under that same legal framework. So it's just,
• 57:47
  it's a, it's,
• 57:50
  it's wild that it has devolved into what it's devolved into.
• 57:54
  and there's no, there's no way, there's no world where I can see IP being valid at all.
• 58:05
  You know, I've had somebody challenge me on this and say, well, if I take your book and copy it
• 58:09
  word for word and just put my name on the cover, you wouldn't have anything to say against that.
• 58:13
  I'm like, you're right. You could do that. Except I do have one thing and that is I can actually
• 58:20
  show that I published it first. And that means that you copied it, which is your right to do,
• 58:27
  but you're presenting it as your own work. And that would just put a bad taste in the market's
• 58:34
  mouth. If you started selling books and I say, Hey, I actually published this word for word
• 58:40
  years before he did. Uh, and they'd be like, Oh, well that's shitty. Well, I'm going to go support
• 58:46
  you since you're the original content creator for it back to that social credit story yeah it is a
• 58:53
  little difficult when you're on the other side i mean just a personal story but 20 years ago i
• 58:57
  developed a product that fit a solution for for motorcycles and and you know i put a lot of
• 59:02
  development into it the fabrication and you know it fit a problem i put that out there sold a few
• 59:07
  of them and then inevitably somebody took the exact same design started making it and sold it
• 59:12
  for less money and then like i'm done so i mean yeah and i was i got a little angry about that
• 59:18
  yeah well i mean and and that perfectly valid because it is something that you put a lot of hard work into It valid to be angry What not valid is to have the state come in and initiate violence against that person for doing it
• 59:35
  And I think that's the big difference that people don't know how to separate.
• 59:40
  Yeah.
• 59:41
  Definitely, you know, a pretty crappy situation.
• 59:46
  No question about it, you know.
• 59:48
  and yeah that sucks man yeah no it does suck it it really does suck and just because somebody has
• 59:59
  the right to to copy whatever it is that you designed and somebody has the copy to to publish
• 1:00:04
  my book word for word under their own name doesn't mean I'm not gonna be pissed off about it you know
• 1:00:09
  we should be pissed off about things like that and that's why we should rely on the free market to
• 1:00:16
  resolve those issues instead of a state apparatus.
• 1:00:23
  Yeah, that makes sense. To me, anyway. So in your book, you said it's more of a basic level. So
• 1:00:30
  I'm assuming you were just talking about, you know, whenever I engage with someone that's,
• 1:00:35
  you know, not familiar with the concept of, you know, anarchism,
• 1:00:39
  lx being a prime example right the roads obviously that's one but you know hospitals
• 1:00:47
  fire department uh you know security um i'm not going to say policing because i i
• 1:00:54
  but security in general right um things of this nature you know uh dispute resolution
• 1:01:01
  things of that nature can you maybe give us a little primer on on you know just those areas
• 1:01:08
  What are your solutions?
• 1:01:10
  Well, so whenever it comes to like figuring out mediation, we already have mediation and arbitration outside of the courts today.
• 1:01:23
  It exists and people put stock into it.
• 1:01:27
  Even if it isn't, even if it may or may not have the hand of the state enforcement behind it, if you have a mediation and out of the mediation you come to an agreement, well, you've agreed.
• 1:01:43
  And if you have to go to arbitration where you can't agree and somebody has to make a decision, there's also stock in that that you could put into it.
• 1:01:51
  And without the state apparatus, again, your reputation becomes everything.
• 1:01:55
  And so if you do go to an arbitration type of dispute resolution and it's arbitrated against your favor and you don't make good on that, well, guess what?
• 1:02:08
  Now your reputation says, hey, they went to a dispute resolution.
• 1:02:13
  He and this other person went to a dispute resolution.
• 1:02:15
  It was arbitrated against him and he never made good on his end.
• 1:02:19
  Again, your reputation has become tarnished because of that.
• 1:02:24
  because you're no longer, you know, you went through a private process and a truly neutral
• 1:02:34
  party said, yeah, you were kind of the one who fucked up here. And here's why. You know,
• 1:02:40
  they could also, here's something that I could, you know, all arbitration matters are fully private
• 1:02:46
  until an arbitration decision has been met. Right. And then once it's been met, they release all of
• 1:02:51
  that publicly, all of the, you know, the transcripts for everything, you know, what have you.
• 1:02:58
  And that way everybody else can decide for you for themselves. Hey, yeah, it looks like you were
• 1:03:04
  the one who was fucked up here. So therefore you need to make good on it or else your reputation
• 1:03:08
  is tarnished. And you can take that even to think, you know, legitimate crimes like homicide,
• 1:03:16
  rape theft any of them uh if it's proven in in a private arbitration that somebody committed those
• 1:03:24
  acts again release all of that to the public and again this is just one idea i'm not saying it's
• 1:03:29
  the correct one but just you know ideas release all the details and say this person was found
• 1:03:34
  guilty of committing homicide imagine the tarnish that your reputation would take from that
• 1:03:40
  and depending on what type of culture you live in and this is another thing that a lot of people
• 1:03:46
  don't seem to understand about anarchist societies is that you're not going to have,
• 1:03:50
  and I've said this often, and I'm kind of proud of myself for coming up with this. I'm not proud
• 1:03:56
  of myself for a lot, but I do like the way that this sounds, is that a stateless world will not
• 1:04:03
  be made up of one singular utopian anarchist philosophy or framework. It will be made of a
• 1:04:08
  beautiful tapestry of a million anarchies with their own economic beliefs and cultural norms.
• 1:04:13
  So you might have an ANCAP society where the cultural norm is that if you kill somebody and you are found guilty, if somebody exacts their revenge on you, the cultural belief is to not have any arbitration against that person who objectively wronged you for killing their friend or whatever.
• 1:04:36
  uh or you could have one where it's like okay we don't do revenge here but we are not going to uh
• 1:04:43
  we're not going to associate with you in any way and your best your best choice is to get the hell
• 1:04:50
  out of dodge um we can't guarantee your safety we can't do it you need to leave we're not going to
• 1:04:56
  take you to the wood chipper right now you got 48 hours or whatever the case may be you know you
• 1:05:00
  have all of these different subcultures in these areas. And so things will kind of work themselves
• 1:05:06
  out however that culture sees fit. And, you know, it's also one of those things where,
• 1:05:11
  you know, if you go to visit, you kind of need to be familiar with the culture of the area
• 1:05:16
  because they might do things a bit differently and that's okay. You know, if you're visiting,
• 1:05:22
  you need to understand those, you need to respect those until you leave. And if you plan on moving
• 1:05:27
  there, you probably should become okay with them because if they're the cultural norm,
• 1:05:32
  you know, you're probably going to disrupt some feathers if you start, you know, if you start
• 1:05:39
  making too big of a fuss about it. And that could lead to some other ostracism with you, you know,
• 1:05:45
  however it may be. So the power of ostracism and personal reputation is so powerful and it just
• 1:05:51
  gets overlooked because, and I blame the state for this because we've been lulled into this sense of
• 1:05:56
  security that the state will take care of everything. Therefore, you don't need to worry
• 1:06:00
  about your reputation. Yeah, we are truly social creatures, even myself. And I'm very capable and
• 1:06:11
  in fact would be happy as I've ever been if I could just stay on my property forever. Period.
• 1:06:20
  I honestly I have very very very little desire to leave my property I spent you know probably nine months without leaving the property once And I was I was happy I was good It was okay with me Right So taking taking away all of that But that also leads me into another piece of this Right And this is one that a lot of people ask me when I engaging with them is you know what about fire departments
• 1:06:52
  What about, you know, I mean, what if you don't subscribe to their service?
• 1:06:56
  They're just, oh, too bad your house burns down.
• 1:06:58
  What if you can't afford it?
• 1:07:00
  You know, how many how many volunteer fire departments exist in the country right now?
• 1:07:06
  Well, I know there's one for my local area.
• 1:07:08
  Yeah, I mean, that's just one.
• 1:07:11
  And the thing, there probably is like a capitalist solution that would align with free market in like major cities of a stateless society.
• 1:07:23
  But I mean, the thing is, and this really is the beautiful thing about anarchy is that you don't have to say this is the definitive solution to X, Y, or Z.
• 1:07:33
  You just have to say, this is a potential solution because in the free market of ideas, there are infinite. There is no scarcity there. And so people can come up and innovate in ways that you can't even imagine right now because those innovations and those creative ideas are stifled because the state has, quote unquote, provided you the solution already.
• 1:07:56
  And we've never even thought about – I mean I say we generally. We've never even thought about how we could do this better outside of people like Murray Rothbard and Walter Block and Hans Hoppe or even if you want to talk about like Kropotkin on the ANCOM side.
• 1:08:16
  you know you have a very small group of people who have even began to put thought into this
• 1:08:24
  and if we had a society that it was kind of not only encouraged but almost necessary
• 1:08:31
  you would have such an innovation beyond your wildest dreams and it's beyond comprehension now
• 1:08:39
  because of what the state does to stifle them if that makes sense
• 1:08:44
  no i think it does lx you're awful quiet got it got any uh any questions from the
• 1:08:52
  oh unindoctrinated going over my head i'll be perfectly honest with you really yeah
• 1:08:59
  how so i don't know i just uh i don't know i mean i mean a lot of the stuff you're talking
• 1:09:07
  about kind of sounds like reading the old testament to be perfectly honest with you
• 1:09:10
  Just the way that things are handled.
• 1:09:13
  Well, I mean, we're not stoning people.
• 1:09:16
  I mean, that's one possible solution, though.
• 1:09:19
  You're right.
• 1:09:20
  It is one possible solution.
• 1:09:23
  I was definitely a deterrent for things happening.
• 1:09:26
  So, I mean, like the whole ostracism of people, like, I mean, that was probably like the worst thing that could happen to you is you commit something and they boot you out of the tribe there.
• 1:09:36
  Yeah, for sure.
• 1:09:36
  And there could be a in a stateless world, there could very well be a a theocratic anarchist society that takes biblical law very seriously.
• 1:09:48
  And there's nothing wrong with that.
• 1:09:49
  If everybody is there voluntarily and that's what they agree to live in under those cultural guidelines, they don't need, you know, again, voluntarism.
• 1:10:01
  that aspect is what differentiates an anarchist society from a statist one you know if if you
• 1:10:10
  cannot leave if you if things are being done against your will um that you did not you know
• 1:10:19
  agree to um you know that's the that's the big difference and if you're living in a culture
• 1:10:24
  um and you try to leave because you don't agree with those cultural ideas and they forbid you
• 1:10:30
  from doing that, well, then you no longer have anarchy. You have a de facto state. It might not
• 1:10:37
  be as big as the current one. It might actually be a lot better than the current one, but it's still
• 1:10:42
  a state and it's still not voluntary. That's the pinnacle of the anarchist philosophy is,
• 1:10:49
  is it voluntary? Yeah. And I think it's an interesting thing for me because I've spent
• 1:10:56
  a lot of time thinking about this, right? But the Amish communities, they resemble anarchy a lot.
• 1:11:04
  Yes. Yes, they have leadership, but you can choose to leave. You don't have to be a part
• 1:11:10
  of their community. You can go join them as well. You know, you'll probably never truly fit in and,
• 1:11:16
  you know, yada, yada, but hey, it's there, right? And they take their governance from their,
• 1:11:23
  you know, the, theocratic leaders. Right. And so there's nothing, you know,
• 1:11:29
  there's nothing wrong with that. Right. I mean,
• 1:11:31
  if you want to set up an enclave and have a leader and leadership that,
• 1:11:35
  you know, kind of gives guidance on how everyone lives, then that's fine.
• 1:11:40
  As long as you're able to join or leave at will.
• 1:11:46
  Yeah. On paper that that's true,
• 1:11:49
  But in practice, the problem comes down to any high control group like that is when you go to leave, if you choose to leave, you have to leave behind your entire social structure.
• 1:12:02
  And there is quite a penalty to be paid for that.
• 1:12:05
  And a lot of people stay in because it's just a lot easier than than leaving.
• 1:12:10
  It's it's it's not quite as easy as I want to leave.
• 1:12:13
  Well, as you make it sound, it's the same.
• 1:12:17
  in general it would be the same with anything right if you if you want to leave a a group
• 1:12:23
  a group of friends you know you you leave and you've lost your social structure right i mean
• 1:12:29
  in general i control groups are are different though they really are i i like i said i don't
• 1:12:36
  believe that it is anarchist right that's not not my statement there but it resembles it right yeah
• 1:12:43
  I can see that.
• 1:12:45
  In that you can voluntarily go and become Amish and you can voluntarily just say, I'm done, right?
• 1:12:53
  And there are people, right?
• 1:12:55
  There's a couple of YouTubers out there that are, you know, former Amish people and they still live largely like that.
• 1:13:01
  But you're right.
• 1:13:02
  They did have to leave their entire social structure and not just leave, but they're, you know, excommunicated.
• 1:13:09
  So they can't.
• 1:13:09
  Well, they treat you like you're dead.
• 1:13:10
  Yeah.
• 1:13:11
  So they, yeah.
• 1:13:12
  Yeah. And one thing just to kind of help clarify, voluntary does not mean without consequence.
• 1:13:19
  You know, if I enter into a contract and there's a severance clause in there that says if I breach the contract early, I'm subject to these penalties.
• 1:13:27
  If I sign that contract agreeing to those, I am still subject to them if I voluntarily decide to exit that contract early.
• 1:13:36
  so just because I have a voluntary out doesn't mean I have I am free from any consequence and
• 1:13:44
  that's the same for any society or any person really you know people like to say that you know
• 1:13:53
  you have freedom of speech but you don't have freedom of consequence from that speech and that's
• 1:13:57
  true you know you you know if you if you make statements that are false or if you make statements that are exaggerated or fraudulent yeah you had the right to say those things but you don have the right to be free of the consequences or the societal consequences from those statements if that makes sense
• 1:14:19
  Does to me.
• 1:14:22
  I don't know.
• 1:14:23
  Yeah.
• 1:14:24
  Seems like it makes sense to me.
• 1:14:26
  It does.
• 1:14:26
  All right. Well, I think we're getting we're pretty good place to start wrapping things up here. And so one of the things we like to do with all of our guests is ask them, you know, it's an opportunity to give back. And we ask them, you know, to give a shout out to someone that had a, you know, large influence on their life could be a historical figure, an author, sixth grade science teacher, whoever it is. But who'd you like to give a shout out to?
• 1:14:54
  so the I would actually like to give a shout out to two the first is my wife my wife Dacia has been
• 1:15:04
  a a wonderful partner in life we have been together for well over a decade now and
• 1:15:14
  you know she has helped me in more ways than I can count and she has just been a wonderful partner
• 1:15:22
  and I am just the luckiest man in the world
• 1:15:27
  to be able to have her as my partner.
• 1:15:30
  The other I would say
• 1:15:32
  that actually had an influence on my philosophies
• 1:15:37
  is Murray Rothbard.
• 1:15:40
  Like I said earlier,
• 1:15:43
  when I was first writing my book,
• 1:15:46
  I did so from a statist perspective
• 1:15:49
  and I was trying to create
• 1:15:51
  the statist solutions and rewrite the constitution and blah, blah, blah. And then I discovered Murray
• 1:15:57
  Rothbard and he filled in the gaps that I was trying to fill with statism. And he showed,
• 1:16:05
  he explained to me in For a New Liberty, it was the first book I ever read of his.
• 1:16:10
  And he explained to me in that book, how solutions can exist for the few things I could not figure
• 1:16:17
  out. And from that day forward, I realized that statism is wrong and there is no necessary evil.
• 1:16:27
  There is no way that the state can coexist with liberty. The state cannot coexist with the people
• 1:16:36
  that it rules over on an equal plane. It has to be in a superior station and it has to be so
• 1:16:44
  with a monopoly on violence, and it has to be something that extorts property in order to even
• 1:16:51
  just be, no matter what it provides. And even if it provides what is an objective good,
• 1:17:01
  it is doing so by committing an objective evil. And that doesn't make what it does good.
• 1:17:08
  So those are my two shout outs.
• 1:17:12
  Awesome. Awesome.
• 1:17:15
  One of these days we'll get LX to read some Liberty books maybe.
• 1:17:20
  Maybe.
• 1:17:21
  Maybe.
• 1:17:22
  There are also audiobooks.
• 1:17:25
  Audiobooks are, yeah.
• 1:17:26
  I'm a big fan of audiobooks.
• 1:17:28
  I consume a lot.
• 1:17:31
  I do read a lot, but I also listen to audiobooks because I travel so much.
• 1:17:35
  and it's great whenever I'm driving,
• 1:17:42
  just trying to consume everything that I can.
• 1:17:46
  Rothbard has some audiobooks.
• 1:17:48
  Walter Block, Hans-Nermann Hoppe has audiobooks.
• 1:17:51
  My book's an audiobook, so I would recommend audiobooks.
• 1:17:57
  I might actually have to uptake that via audiobook.
• 1:18:01
  That might be a solution for me.
• 1:18:03
  Is it you narrating?
• 1:18:05
  It is. And it gave me a whole nother respect for narrators because that shit is hard. You're like, how hard is it? It's just reading stuff I wrote. No, whenever you're in a good flow and you've read like a paragraph and then you fumble over a sentence, you're like, shit.
• 1:18:22
  and then you have to go back find a place where you can kind of splice in and match that tone so
• 1:18:27
  it flows well it took me probably like the the audiobook i think is just under seven hours i
• 1:18:33
  think it took me over 24 hours of recording so yeah a very very labor-assessive task that i did
• 1:18:42
  yourself too i did yeah okay good yeah no thanks i'm out that's the fun part
• 1:18:48
  I'm out. Nope.
• 1:18:52
  The editing audio, I'll be honest with you.
• 1:18:55
  Audio editing is the bane of my existence.
• 1:18:59
  Honestly.
• 1:19:00
  Really? That's the fun part.
• 1:19:02
  No, it's really not.
• 1:19:04
  It becomes very tedious.
• 1:19:06
  Yeah. It's really not.
• 1:19:07
  So you catch these little anomalies and you're like, oh crap,
• 1:19:10
  I gotta go clip that out.
• 1:19:11
  I gotta, you know, I'm gonna, you know, mute this part and clip that.
• 1:19:16
  and it's it's a lot you always do it by the waveform you get you know enough into it
• 1:19:22
  you know we have to listen to it yeah back in my youth i was an aspiring rock star so i would write
• 1:19:28
  and record uh you know my own music it was it was so in labor intensive because you know you're
• 1:19:36
  especially whenever you're trying to do a final mix and then you finally hear something you're
• 1:19:39
  like the fuck was that and you realize i can't unhear that and i have to re-record it
• 1:19:45
  some of the best songs have mistakes in them
• 1:19:48
  I know I know
• 1:19:50
  alright so where can people find you
• 1:19:55
  where can they grab your book is there a site that's better for you in general
• 1:19:58
  so I am most prevalent on
• 1:20:02
  Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it at
• 1:20:05
  ANCAP air my book is on Amazon
• 1:20:08
  and Audible I've been meaning to get it
• 1:20:12
  on Barnes and Noble website, but I haven't been.
• 1:20:16
  And I'm working on my second book,
• 1:20:18
  which I will hopefully finish someday.
• 1:20:20
  It's a novel, so it's a bit different for me.
• 1:20:23
  But I kind of wanted to take an Ayn Rand approach
• 1:20:26
  of telling philosophy through a novel.
• 1:20:33
  So that's what this one is.
• 1:20:35
  It's a book.
• 1:20:36
  I've entitled it Chaos in Auburn.
• 1:20:38
  I just need to finish it.
• 1:20:40
  But it's essentially about the Free State Project has grown in New Hampshire and a town, the town of Auburn, New Hampshire, secedes from the United States and it goes from there.
• 1:20:54
  So that's the premise behind it.
• 1:20:56
  I just need to finish it.
• 1:20:57
  That's a dangerous place to be.
• 1:21:00
  Doesn't work out so well for the Cesss.
• 1:21:03
  Well, awesome, man.
• 1:21:07
  Thank you so much for giving us some of your time.
• 1:21:09
  I really do appreciate it.
• 1:21:11
  And thank you for giving us some of your time as well.
• 1:21:14
  And remember, wherever you are, whenever you're watching this, have an amazing day.
• 1:21:23
  Thanks for coming by, Derek.
• 1:21:25
  Of course. Thanks for having me.