Transcript

Mail Bag · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you got for me?
0:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_01]: As long as I'm not for me, we could have had the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_03]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory of the podcast for the local church and high of the local church, and we are your local churchman.
0:43
[SPEAKER_03]: My name is Josh and I'm here as always with the captain.
0:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Jack.
0:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Very Jack.
0:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It is good to be with you.
0:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Do a radio.
0:51
[SPEAKER_03]: You haven't.
0:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Haven't a busy day.
0:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you a tune?
0:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
0:55
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just nuts.
1:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Per usual.
1:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Per usual.
1:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:02
[SPEAKER_03]: It happens.
1:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It happens.
1:03
[SPEAKER_03]: It happens.
1:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, glad we can carve out some time to
1:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Hop into some dude great great content today.
1:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Always love when the listeners come through and provide some content for us because one It means I don't have to do any work, and that's kind of nice on the podcast front and too It means that yeah people are listening and I appreciate the podcast and we we love being able to to do that for folks, but
1:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's been a good week so far, um, got to preach dude.
1:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I've preached the last three weeks And I'm preaching this Sunday.
1:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll be a full month of preaching for me Which It's got me feeling like I'm back in full-time ministry, man It's been it was the first one was that was that my church Redeemer and then I was preaching at a Another Redeemer, but in Seattle
1:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, what's up with the name?
1:56
[SPEAKER_03]: My Redeemer.
1:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I do know that.
1:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this the cookie cutter church?
2:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the new or what?
2:02
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the new grace Bible.
2:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Is what it is.
2:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, all the Bible churches, they were all grace, right?
2:10
[SPEAKER_03]: It was grace Bible, grace Bible, this grace Bible, that for reform churches now, it's Redeemer.
2:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Redeemer is becoming the new grace.
2:19
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, it's always so funny to see.
2:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, how those how those trends go.
2:23
[SPEAKER_03]: But then I was back at our church last week, preaching in first Peter.
2:28
[SPEAKER_03]: We're wrapping up that book here in the next two weeks.
2:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And then preaching at a church in eastern Washington this coming Sunday for Mother's Day.
2:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So dude,
2:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a lot.
2:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it, but it's a lot definitely.
2:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but all good stuff looking forward to getting into our episode today, but Jack, my friend, as always, we would be remiss if we did not give the people what they want and give them our favorite segment.
2:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And know the time you've all been waiting for.
3:03
[SPEAKER_01]: The ordinary broadcast presents Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
3:08
[SPEAKER_01]: With your host, Josh Loftus, On Jack Mary.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember kids, it's not heresy If you're believable, hard enough.
3:17
[SPEAKER_03]: This is don't forget to eat your Instagrams and remember kids.
3:20
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not here.
3:20
[SPEAKER_03]: See if you believe it hard enough.
3:21
[SPEAKER_03]: That is how it works these days.
3:23
[SPEAKER_03]: My friends Jack.
3:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got some good stuff for you At the time of this recording, we had a holiday that was that was just a few I will yesterday yesterday for us at the time of when this releases it will have been a couple days ago and I'm talking about yes
3:41
[SPEAKER_03]: May the fourth be with you.
3:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Star Wars Day.
3:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, aside note, we're going to have to talk about Malshado Lord in one of the Patients.
3:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
3:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
3:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I finished that.
3:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Big time.
3:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's already one of the highest rated Star Wars animated shows.
4:01
[SPEAKER_03]: If not, the highest one.
4:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, sorry.
4:03
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about that over the Patreon.
4:05
[SPEAKER_03]: But Jackie and honor of that.
4:08
[SPEAKER_03]: some churches decided to throw in little Easter eggs in their services during worship just to make sure that they celebrated the day in style.
4:40
[SPEAKER_03]: So, he just riffs, he just riffs the theme.
4:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he hit some with the Star Wars theme in the middle of a worship set.
4:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's the thing, okay.
4:54
[SPEAKER_03]: So much of me wants to hate on this and I could true right and so we even say I should I should there is a there is an element of me that should should hate on this.
5:04
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't the place for it Right, this is church.
5:07
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't time to introduce pop culture.
5:10
[SPEAKER_03]: You know stuff like that, but I would be very hypocritical If I were to do that confession time
5:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I have in more than one occasion.
5:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, wow playing drums, it's sure.
5:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, worked in the drum fill from in the air tonight.
5:33
[SPEAKER_03]: You did it.
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You did it.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You did it.
5:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I've done it more than once.
5:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Just because it's so crazy.
5:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
5:47
[SPEAKER_03]: It has been on more than one occasion One of them was by request.
5:53
[SPEAKER_03]: One of them was by request.
5:55
[SPEAKER_03]: The pastor of the church was like dude like can you like Can you somehow work that in and I'm like all right, I bet watch me and I hate it Perfectly And you saw his eyes like look at me
6:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yes, I should hate on this, but full transparency, hand up accountability here, right?
6:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I would be very hypocritical if I were to hate on that.
6:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say he kind of botched the ending a little bit, which makes me think that it was on the spot.
6:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't, I would, I'll say it wasn't like, so he hits that perfect.
6:39
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
6:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you recovered.
6:41
[SPEAKER_03]: He recovered.
6:42
[SPEAKER_03]: He recovered.
6:43
[SPEAKER_03]: He recovered.
6:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, not the place for that or Phil Collins drum drum drum solo.
6:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Jack, we're gonna head on over to something that I would say is even more offensive.
6:56
[SPEAKER_03]: If you can believe it or not, let's check out the check out.
7:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's check out what Bethel, what Bethel's up to these days.
7:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's head on over.
7:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's step on over to Bethel here.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason why you can heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons is because of who you are.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus didn't say, pray for the sick.
7:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, heal the sick.
7:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, only God can heal the sick.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why he said, the imitators of God.
7:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I can't heal the sick.
7:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Only God can heal the sick.
7:26
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, you are sons of God.
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, Jesus quoted the Psalmist when he said you are God's and the word God's is little G. He is big G and you are little G. You're a little G. God Listen here G no
7:49
[SPEAKER_04]: You got to stop.
7:50
[SPEAKER_03]: That's him.
7:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's him.
7:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
7:51
[SPEAKER_03]: That's heresy.
7:51
[SPEAKER_04]: The G. Yes.
7:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Stop.
7:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Stop talking.
7:55
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not doing this right now.
7:56
[SPEAKER_03]: That's that's yeah.
7:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I saw it coming.
8:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's like it's like when you see it's like when you're watching a kid like a like a toddler who's still uncoordinated they're like they're learning how to walk like you see them like running down a hill or walking down a hill and they start to pick up speed and you know what's about to happen.
8:16
[SPEAKER_03]: right like their legs are not going to be able to keep up with the momentum.
8:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Also happens when you happen to be in your 30s and 40s getting older.
8:22
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny how that like comes full circle, right?
8:25
[SPEAKER_03]: But you saw that coming on my all the way.
8:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You saw that ice is coming.
8:32
[SPEAKER_03]: from miles, miles my friend.
8:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, some fun instant grams today, ladies and gentlemen, dude, I'm excited for this app.
8:41
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got, uh, it's been a long time since we've done one of these two long.
8:47
[SPEAKER_03]: We really should do them more, uh, because I think they're fun.
8:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, um,
8:52
[SPEAKER_03]: gives us the opportunity to have a little bit more of a laid-back app and to answer some questions from some of our listeners.
9:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So we've got a good number of them here.
9:04
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to try to get through as many as we can if we can't get through all of them then we may be we can do another app for sure.
9:10
[SPEAKER_03]: but we sent out the call for anyone who wanted to submit some questions or discussion topics to the podcast and we had some people do that and I'm looking forward to hopping in on some of these.
9:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So first I want to say thank you, you know, if you're listening to the reformatory and you've been listening for any amount of time.
9:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I mean, it still floors Jack and I that anybody would choose willingly to listen to the reformatory, uh, and that you actually get enjoyment and like encouragement out of it.
9:39
[SPEAKER_03]: That that that that that's really cool.
9:41
[SPEAKER_03]: We really do, uh, appreciate that and love that still floors us to this day, and uh, as long as it continues to be an encouragement, then yeah, we'll we will continue to keep rocking as long as the Lord gives Jack and I the ability to do it.
9:58
[SPEAKER_03]: This is 335, my friend.
10:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know how many podcasts, especially in the reformed world that we live and have come and gone in the time that the reformatory has been rocking?
10:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great.
10:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
10:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
10:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty crazy.
10:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty stoked.
10:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty stoked about that.
10:18
[SPEAKER_03]: But Jack, we're going to hop in to some of these questions here submitted by our faithful and awesome listeners.
10:29
[SPEAKER_03]: The best listening base in reformed.
10:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm convinced of it.
10:34
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
10:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Starting off with a great one here.
10:36
[SPEAKER_03]: This one comes from listener Katie.
10:39
[SPEAKER_03]: which is as dear Josh and Jack.
10:41
[SPEAKER_03]: First off, thank you for the work that you do on the podcast.
10:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been very encouraging throughout the years that I've been listening.
10:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you, Katie.
10:49
[SPEAKER_03]: We definitely appreciate that.
10:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Love to hear that it's been encouraging.
10:53
[SPEAKER_03]: My question is in regards to serving in the local church after going through a bad church experience.
11:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I love my local church and want to find a way to serve, but I'm struggling with a fear that if I get plugged in, that something bad will happen again.
11:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Thoughts on how to faithfully serve while dealing with that fear.
11:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Jumping in the deep end.
11:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
11:20
[SPEAKER_03]: No appetisers here starting with the ribeye.
11:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Jack want your thoughts first and then yeah, I've got I've got some after you my men I would say first Whatever kind of ministry you want to serve in it depends Maybe let's say for starters
11:40
[SPEAKER_04]: you want to do something on Lord's Day service.
11:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And you just need to plug in to maybe one of the decans or maybe a ministry leader to connect you with kind of what's going on there.
11:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And I would honestly, to be, this is just me saying this, I would be open about talking with them about your experience of just feeling that way.
12:03
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're on a good basis with your local church already, you're there for a reason, and you're showing up for reasons.
12:15
[SPEAKER_04]: that are biblical first, but also trying to encourage you.
12:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would hope that you would be candid and talk to either, you know, those decans or maybe if it has to go to pastors, talk to them about that.
12:34
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, talk to him candidly about, hey, I don't know about how I feel about going back into this, especially if I had this bad situation and I feel like there's
12:43
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, there's like for me, I know the way that I was serving at my old church is definitely not the way that we're gonna go with my new church.
12:53
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just categorically, the culture is just completely opposite ends of the spectrum, right?
13:01
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I would just evaluate
13:04
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, if there's a comfort ability with leaders, talk to them about this and kind of let them know about your kind of hesitations to a certain extent, but also trying to go forth with just small little ways, whether that be, if you want to start doing like, I don't know, for me it was just like maybe like small little things like the connect desk.
13:27
[SPEAKER_04]: here and there and you know giving people resources that way or it was greeting or it was doing some ushering stuff here and there basically just
13:41
[SPEAKER_04]: having, you know, making sure people found their seats when it got a little bit too crowded in our church building from time to time.
13:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I would start slow and steady.
13:51
[SPEAKER_04]: And then just even, if once you start building trust with the leaders, I would just start to talk about that a little bit more and lean on one another, lean on your leaders, lean on other church members with that.
14:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, that's how I would kind of go about that but yeah, I think that's great advice.
14:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I honestly don't have much to add to that.
14:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my advice was definitely going to be yeah start small start slow.
14:17
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing wrong with that.
14:19
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no expectation that you have to jump into the deep end of serving church.
14:24
[SPEAKER_03]: You know,
14:26
[SPEAKER_03]: right away.
14:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I can say this too, from a pastoral perspective, I appreciate it and very much value it when people make me aware of the things that they are struggling with, especially when it's in regards to past, past churches that, you know, they've maybe experienced a bad things in, because that gives me a context and an understanding in which to interact with them
14:55
[SPEAKER_03]: right, and that's very helpful pastorally.
14:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So something that I would very much encourage you to do, as you just heard from Jack, is, yeah, like, be honest with the church leaders about those struggles.
15:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell them, say, hey, I really like it here.
15:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to serve, but this is something that I'm struggling with because of these experiences.
15:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Can can I have some help being shepherded
15:20
[SPEAKER_03]: like that that conversation is such a bomb to a pastor's heart because one he hears your love for the church.
15:27
[SPEAKER_03]: But also he also sees an opportunity to be able to come alongside you and help you in that.
15:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And like the church is the church functions the best when those are the demeanors that we have toward one another.
15:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So start small, start, start, you know, don't look like Dex, I don't jump all, you know, all the way in headfirst, don't feel like you have to
15:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But I would say, yeah, first and foremost, be honest with those elders, be honest with those pastors and let them come alongside you and help you with that.
15:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that would, that's always a good, a good place to start.
15:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But I applaud, I applaud your willingness and desire to be plugged in, even though you have been hurt.
16:08
[SPEAKER_03]: As from two guys that have gone through that a couple times, that's commendable.
16:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's a testament to the spirit's work in your life.
16:18
[SPEAKER_03]: and to see.
16:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So well done, Katie, hope that.
16:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Hope that helps.
16:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me.
16:25
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, next up, we've got a question submitted by Jacob.
16:31
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, Jacob says this.
16:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, what's up, guys?
16:35
[SPEAKER_03]: What's up, Jacob?
16:36
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, wondering what the Lord used in your life to give you the love for the local church that you have was there something definitive that happened where you knew that is what you wanted to put your effort into.
16:51
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a fantastic question.
16:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say for me, it really, I, for me,
17:02
[SPEAKER_03]: like I've always kind of felt that pull into ministry because it's something that was very familiar to me.
17:08
[SPEAKER_03]: But I would say that the kind of the hardcore focus of the local church, like making that kind of kind of going all in on that really happened as kind of a consequence in the early stages of COVID.
17:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Specifically for me and it's not that I wasn't committed before that or didn't love the local church before that.
17:31
[SPEAKER_03]: but our long-term listeners will remember kind of when that shift happened even in the podcast where we we stopped dealing with kind of more I would say general kind of wide theological topics that honestly every other podcast was doing and has done.
17:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And we really did get kind of laser focused in like what we wanted to talk about in the context of what we wanted to talk about, right?
18:01
[SPEAKER_03]: We wanted to be the podcast for the local church and by the local church.
18:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And that happened pretty early on and pretty shortly after Jack came on as well.
18:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Jack and I kind of had a similar, a similar road to Damascus, if you will, experience in that we were, we were looking around, especially in the context that we found ourselves in.
18:21
[SPEAKER_03]: in COVID in Washington, which was honestly one of the worst states to be in during that time, Fort Ford churches.
18:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I can just speak for myself.
18:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I was seeing
18:34
[SPEAKER_03]: the degradation of the importance of the local church in people's lives and how easily so many individuals, members and pastors included were willing to just throw that aside and be like, oh yeah, like we don't we don't we don't need to we don't need to gather, right?
18:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Like if if COVID did
19:03
[SPEAKER_03]: because it's, it's off, right?
19:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's something that really kind of was revealed.
19:10
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, like I said it all through COVID, and I still say now COVID didn't cause any problems.
19:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It just revealed the problems that we're always there.
19:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
19:17
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what it did.
19:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Because that's what fire does.
19:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Any type of, you know, like in the larger church scale, any type of persecution, any type of pressure or tension that the church goes through, it refines in it reveals.
19:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That's how it works.
19:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And a revealed that a lot of people have a very bad theology when it comes to the local church.
19:40
[SPEAKER_03]: What it is who it's for and how we're supposed to do it.
19:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was really through that that I really became convicted that, you know what?
19:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this is...
19:52
[SPEAKER_03]: this is the focus that I believe the Lord wants me to have in the context where he has me right now.
19:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
19:59
[SPEAKER_03]: If I was in another part of the country, the context might have changed like it might have been something different.
20:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it would have, but it might have been, but it was very much spurred on by, um,
20:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just the love of the church that I already had, but also a lot of the issues that I saw go in through COVID here in Washington and I saw that deep need for some biblical ecclesiology in the lives of of of God's people.
20:26
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's kind of what it what did it for me is kind of, uh, that's kind of what the, the pulling the pin moment, if you will, Jack, how about how about you, man?
20:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I could say, honestly,
20:40
[SPEAKER_04]: When I became a believer, the church is really all I had as far as family goes.
20:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I
20:50
[SPEAKER_04]: got rejected by a pretty prominent family member.
20:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And at that point in time, I felt like, well, I think the church is my family now.
21:00
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's always been with me.
21:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say even in difficulties, even in when I moved around with the army a little bit.
21:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I would pray
21:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, yeah, I think the church has kind of always been there for me as a believer.
21:25
[SPEAKER_04]: As far as me getting serious about the local church and the dynamics of it,
21:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, I think I got more serious after maybe 2015.
21:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I moved back to Ellen'sburg and was in a local Baptist Church out there that I knew the pastor out there and really started to plug in and
21:55
[SPEAKER_04]: really wanted to help out more and more, and I had been doing that in other different churches, but it felt more particular, and just kind of, hey, this is now, especially since I was, at that point in time, I was really exploring a particular Baptist theology as well, too, and so I think that in combination was kind of what started me, focusing a lot more on the local church,
22:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I'm when I move back over to the west side into coma again.
22:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It was really a big focus, and even after that, even I think it's been, like Josh said, I think after COVID, things got revealed even more about how so important it is for you to gather with your local church.
22:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And so yeah, I think the ecclesiology stuff was starting to brew up.
22:54
[SPEAKER_04]: before then, and then it really was like, uh, what are we doing?
22:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.
23:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but yeah, the serving in the local church, making the local church central to my life as a believer has always been there.
23:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's been more serious, maybe in the last.
23:13
[SPEAKER_04]: uh ten years than it was in my first ten years as a believer, but yeah.
23:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
23:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
23:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think that's how it goes, right?
23:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think that's, I think that's a good thing.
23:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We, we want to be able to look back in our lives and see.
23:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
23:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I've, you know.
23:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I've come some ways, you know, like this is this is there's a there's a noticeable difference now from who I was to who I am and yeah and if if we see that especially in our love and commitment to the local church, I mean, praise the Lord, that's awesome.
23:46
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fantastic.
23:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, move it on here.
23:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this one comes from Michael.
23:53
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, dear Josh and the captain.
23:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Love the podcast, guys.
23:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Michael, we love you.
24:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for listening.
24:01
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, wondering if you can give me some recommendations for some good resources regarding reformed Baptist theology.
24:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe I am going in that direction and want to learn more about it.
24:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay, sure.
24:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess, so the first, an obvious one off top of my head is read the confession.
24:21
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the 1689 is the, like, that is the statement of faith if you will of reform Baptist theology.
24:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we subscribe to and it's a fantastic document.
24:35
[SPEAKER_03]: If you read through that, you know, there's not much in there that I would think any, you know, unless you're Presbyterian, it's some, it's some pretty, it's some,
24:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Pretty basic and I would say like if you read your Bible, it's what it says, and that's why I love it, right?
24:49
[SPEAKER_03]: A great resource that just came out somewhat recently is what is a reform Baptist by Tom Hicks.
24:56
[SPEAKER_03]: If you read pick up that book, it's on Amazon.
24:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I'm gonna tell you right now how what is a reformed Baptist Tom Hicks You can get on founders You can also get it on Amazon
25:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, it's it's it's 25 bucks.
25:18
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not bad.
25:19
[SPEAKER_03]: 25 bucks for Tom Hicks book.
25:22
[SPEAKER_03]: What is a reform Baptist?
25:23
[SPEAKER_03]: That is fantastic.
25:25
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a very, very great resource.
25:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And I found that resource actually to be pretty approachable too.
25:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's not very heavy.
25:33
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to have a PhD level of theology to understand it.
25:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
25:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Jack, who's the who's the guy that wrote wrote the two part to the judicious reader?
25:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes.
25:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, James Rennahan.
25:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Rennahan.
25:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
25:50
[SPEAKER_03]: James Rennahan.
25:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
25:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
25:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
25:53
[SPEAKER_03]: So he did a two part book on basically his like,
25:58
[SPEAKER_03]: It's basically his like exposition of the 1689, right?
26:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So he kind of just he goes through each line and each chapter and kind of just gives his understanding and interpretation of it.
26:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Really fantastic.
26:13
[SPEAKER_03]: He did one for the first London confession and he did one for the second London confession.
26:19
[SPEAKER_03]: They're both great.
26:22
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll give you some also some great history of kind of the kind of where reform Baptists came from some of the theology like where that was formed.
26:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Why it was formed?
26:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Those would be the resources that I would say start with right there for specific reform Baptist theology.
26:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Jack, would you would you add anything else other than those?
26:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I would maybe only add, uh, Richard Barcello's work.
26:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
26:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Richard Barcello's work to be quite honest.
26:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So anything with his, I think, is really good.
26:51
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're,
26:54
[SPEAKER_04]: This is really heady stuff, but James Dolazal, his work is going to be a little bit more academic and a little bit more theological weighty, so like he has done really good stuff on just doctrine of God stuff.
27:12
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, there's the him as well.
27:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, who's the there's the
27:20
[SPEAKER_03]: getting real nerdy here.
27:21
[SPEAKER_03]: The distinctives of Baptist Covenant Theology by Pascal.
27:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, Pascal French god.
27:30
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the last name?
27:32
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like Descartes or something like that.
27:34
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I thought it was that.
27:36
[SPEAKER_03]: to note that's a scale to note.
27:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the distinctives of Baptist Covenant Theology by Pascal to note that'd be another one for you as well.
27:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So check out those that that will give you
27:52
[SPEAKER_03]: that will give you so much right there is if you if you engage in some of those um no I gotta give one more dude I'm sorry I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm nerding out right okay this one is a fantastic resource because of how it is framed and the graciousness in which this in this author deals with the opposition to the baptistic understanding of baptism it's the book is the baptism of disciples alone by Fred Malone.
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Fred Malone touches on fatal baptism and why the reform Baptist saw it necessary and prudent to make a distinction and to distinguish from the Presbyterian understanding of
28:40
[SPEAKER_03]: of baptism and he doesn't have a very gracious and I think unifying way that doesn't that doesn't put down our brothers and sisters in the Presbyterian Theology but shows the reason and and why the distinction happened so the baptism of disciples alone by Fred Malone also a fantastic resource pick those up.
29:01
[SPEAKER_03]: They're all on Amazon.
29:02
[SPEAKER_03]: You can find them on founders as well if you want to throw founders Money always good
29:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
29:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully, that's enough.
29:11
[SPEAKER_03]: That will give you so much reading.
29:15
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, that's going to take you a while.
29:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Start there.
29:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Jack, let's hop in.
29:20
[SPEAKER_03]: See if we can get through, see if we can get through two more here.
29:24
[SPEAKER_03]: This one comes from Candace Candace Owen.
29:27
[SPEAKER_03]: You think Candace Owen?
29:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen to her former story.
29:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Dowdy.
29:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I doubt it.
29:32
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a papus.
29:33
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a papus.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That is true.
29:34
[SPEAKER_03]: She is.
29:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Candace, you should listen to the reformatory, though.
29:39
[SPEAKER_03]: You know who needs the distinct, the distinct as a reformer, about this theology is Candace Owen.
29:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, like, okay.
29:45
[SPEAKER_03]: This comes from Candace more than likely, not Owen.
29:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, yeah.
29:50
[SPEAKER_03]: She says hello brothers.
29:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Candace.
29:52
[SPEAKER_03]: She says just wanted to say that I'm very thankful for the podcast and love the focus and care that you both have for the local church.
29:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you.
29:59
[SPEAKER_03]: It's always encouraging to hear.
30:01
[SPEAKER_03]: She says I'm a single lady and have recently gotten into studying reform theology.
30:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude.
30:07
[SPEAKER_03]: join the club.
30:09
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fantastic.
30:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to have to beat the boys off with a stick.
30:14
[SPEAKER_03]: She says she says something that I have noticed is there seems to be a great emphasis placed on men studying theology, but you don't hear as much on why it's important for women to do the same.
30:26
[SPEAKER_03]: do you have any thoughts on why this is or am I even correct in this observation?
30:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, thankful for the podcast and hope you guys have a great day.
30:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Candace, that is a fantastic question.
30:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll save from my experience.
30:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll throw it over to Jack.
30:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You are not incorrect in your observation.
30:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say stream of, almost a stream of consciousness.
30:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of like a, we're formed theology is kind of like a hive mind.
30:57
[SPEAKER_03]: We're all kind of connected in a weird way where one thing affects the other.
31:01
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a hydrohead.
31:02
[SPEAKER_03]: You cut off one and another one pops up, right?
31:05
[SPEAKER_03]: But no, there is, I think you are keen in on something to jack.
31:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've actually talked on this before.
31:11
[SPEAKER_03]: There's actually, we actually did an episode on this a couple of years ago.
31:16
[SPEAKER_03]: on the importance of women studying theology because, yeah, there is for some reason not the emphasis that I would say needs to be there in the reformed community.
31:29
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, not in all of the reformed community.
31:32
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not how it isn't my church.
31:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm thankful for that.
31:35
[SPEAKER_03]: But there it does seem to be a blind spot there.
31:37
[SPEAKER_03]: where there is not as much emphasis placed on the importance of women, studying theology, as there is their male counterparts.
31:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you could attribute a lot to that.
31:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you could attribute that to an oversimplification of complementarianism.
31:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you could blame and open the
32:02
[SPEAKER_03]: the kind of insidious way that the patriarchy has kind of found its way into reform theology in a very unhealthy way.
32:10
[SPEAKER_03]: We're seeing that a lot in the Christian Nationalist camp, right?
32:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Where there's just this understanding that in reform doctrine, women are wives and mothers and that's their purpose and it's the men that study the word and teach the family and
32:34
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not calling for the roles that God has given us to be abolished, right?
32:42
[SPEAKER_03]: What we're saying is that the importance of studying scripture, I would say the encouragement, the mandate that we are given as Christians to know who God is.
32:57
[SPEAKER_03]: so that we may worship him better, is a mandate that is not simply the purview of men, because both men and women are individuals.
33:10
[SPEAKER_03]: They have individual souls.
33:12
[SPEAKER_03]: they come to Christ individually, even though they may be unified in the bonds of marriage, they are separate entities, they are separate people.
33:23
[SPEAKER_03]: The wife is not saved through the merit or the theology or the works of her husband.
33:28
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just not how it works.
33:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And we have just kind of this blind spot in reformed them where the men study all of the theology and the women take care of the kids.
33:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's how it is.
33:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, look, look, you can have that, you can have that in your home where the wife's taking care of the kids and the husbands, you know, doing the work and it's very traditional.
33:48
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.
33:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
33:50
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, you know, praise the Lord for that.
33:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But you cannot extend.
33:54
[SPEAKER_03]: The, the, that, that, that, that, I would say that, that, um, you can't extend rolls to the point where it is limiting somebody from learning about who God is.
34:11
[SPEAKER_03]: They're called to study the Word of God as Christians.
34:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't matter if you're a man, doesn't matter if you're a woman.
34:17
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we're called to do because we need to know who God is.
34:21
[SPEAKER_03]: and it's done through the studying of the Word of God.
34:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And if there is a group of individuals, a group of men or a pastor saying that women should not be studying or engaging in theology because that's something that men do, I would say he is gravely mistaken.
34:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel bad for his wife and any daughters that he should have because they're
34:49
[SPEAKER_03]: to be in a position where they are thrown to and fro by any theology that whatever man is over them decides to, you know, decides to a spound.
35:02
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's a very long-winded answer of saying, yeah, you're seeing it correctly and it's dumb.
35:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's really dumb.
35:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Jack, you're a thought.
35:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I also see this as well, too, a lot of the time.
35:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And I also see it in ways in which more women are hungry for more theologically, depth works in all the studies and stuff like that.
35:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, let's be real.
35:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the vast majority of stuff out there that's for women is dog crap.
35:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Chaloh.
35:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very shallow.
35:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Chaloh, dude.
35:39
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I feel like there is a yearning to have more depth in your study with other women.
35:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I can attribute why things they are because of like what Josh said.
35:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the rise of Patriarchy and Patriarchical churches in more kind of, I don't know, if you could say Protestant, but yeah, more Protestant circles in that sense.
36:13
[SPEAKER_04]: But like Josh said to, I think, you know,
36:16
[SPEAKER_04]: If the emphasis has always been on men doing something studying and not women, where are we exploring why that is?
36:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And yet also empowering women to get trained and to understand stuff as well too.
36:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And also teach other women in a correct way.
36:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I've
36:44
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just very difficult because you're always going to be in some sense like fighting upstream with certain movements.
36:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say right now that are very much anti women.
37:00
[SPEAKER_04]: gaining more knowledge, because there's some sort of distrust there, or there's some sort of cliché or character or stereotype that.
37:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Women get more knowledge in this area than, oh my gosh, that's the end of the world.
37:16
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, oh my gosh, can you go down?
37:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a pendulum swing away from feminism, is what it is.
37:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think it's, it's individual seeing the effects.
37:26
[SPEAKER_03]: that, like, rapid feminism has done in our culture, right, where you have the rise of, you know, abortion rights and, you know, all of the things that have kind of come from that movement.
37:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're like, well, we don't want anything that has anything to do with that.
37:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's go back to the 1920s where women weren't allowed to think, right?
37:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And then everything's going to be okay.
37:49
[SPEAKER_03]: When it's like, no, that's not, that's not the cure to the problem that you see in our culture today.
37:56
[SPEAKER_03]: and what's ironic is the cure against rabid feminism is women that are literate in the Word of God, right?
38:04
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like we have that we haven't mixed up, right?
38:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And I want the women in my church to be just as theologically literate and robust as the men are.
38:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they live in the same world that we do.
38:16
[SPEAKER_03]: They deal with the same crap on social media and the grocery store and in the workplace and in the homeschool co-ops and wherever they go, they're living in the same world.
38:28
[SPEAKER_03]: They need the same scriptures and there's no excuse to not encourage that other than
38:37
[SPEAKER_03]: you have some, I would say, some men that are very insecure in who they are.
38:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So, hope that helps.
38:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope that's encouraging, because, yeah, like, we need theologically literate women in our churches, because that's important, because we need theologically literate Christians.
38:56
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just, that's just how it is, making this distinction is just,
39:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
39:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Jack.
39:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I think should we try to knock out this this this last one here.
39:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
39:10
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
39:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do it.
39:11
[SPEAKER_03]: This one comes from Ken.
39:12
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, Hey, guys.
39:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any good recommendations for cigars these days?
39:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been having guys from church over to my house more often and I want to provide them with some boutique offerings.
39:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It says, any recommendations would be amazing.
39:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate you guys.
39:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Appreciate you, Ken, and well done, my friend, for bringing the men over to your church, and you're utilizing the good gifts that God has given us as a means to cultivate discipleship.
39:37
[SPEAKER_03]: I have set aside a few of my favorites that I am digging at the moment, but, Jack, do you have any recommendations off the top of Yenagan for Ken?
39:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And the rest are our listeners for some boutique offerings.
39:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, always try and true foundation cigars.
39:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And yes, anything from foundation.
39:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe more along the lines of the Tabernacle series to be quite honest.
40:03
[SPEAKER_04]: So good.
40:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And then apostate, that whole line, anything from apostate, I will finish off with if you can find it.
40:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how big
40:15
[SPEAKER_03]: This brand is across the nation, but Elmago, definitely like Elmago, so there you go, that's one of my Elmago right there, right there the Elmago Maduro dude it comes in such a fun little canister like this screams Florida.
40:34
[SPEAKER_03]: If it's any Miami pie.
40:36
[SPEAKER_03]: This is yeah, literally Miami dude.
40:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I second Elmago I am digging Elmago recently.
40:43
[SPEAKER_03]: It's fantastic.
40:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Another one that I found I found these on cigarbed for super cheap but they're great little budget sticks and I had never heard of them before.
40:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It is the Toronto.
40:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the Toronto sticks.
40:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on, focus.
40:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Focus.
41:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard of these?
41:02
[SPEAKER_03]: These are pretty, yes, yes.
41:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I have smoked those in the past.
41:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, these are these are great little sticks, Toronto.
41:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I like it because it sounds Italian and my wife's Italian.
41:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Last but not least is anything, anything agonorsa, leaf, is fantastic specifically the Cerberus,
41:20
[SPEAKER_03]: The Cerberus stick by Agonorsa Leaf, you cannot go wrong with the Cerberus.
41:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It's delicious, it's just such Agonorsa does such amazing work with their cigars.
41:35
[SPEAKER_03]: So those would be some recommendations that we've got, and hopefully those recommendations hit and provide even more opportunities to invest in some of the men in your church.
41:46
[SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome that you're doing that.
41:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I have found Jack that
41:49
[SPEAKER_03]: the best conversations.
41:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of the best discipleship has been done over some cigars, it's something pretty special about it.
41:58
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Jack, any last words or our encouragement to our listeners before we close up shop here?
42:05
[SPEAKER_04]: No, just keep your questions and your comments coming.
42:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we always say, you can follow us on the sociables, if you will.
42:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Drive the Facebook, the meta, it's not the metaverse, it's the Facebook now.
42:23
[SPEAKER_04]: The instant gram goes well with chocolate or marshmallow, we'll sprinkle a heresy on top, or the sociable, formerly known as Twitter X, you can catch us at the tag at the
42:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, I would say if you have any more questions for us keeping coming, we'd love to do one of these other episodes as well too.
42:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe even with some voice voice capabilities.
42:45
[SPEAKER_03]: That'd be fun if we missed.
42:46
[SPEAKER_03]: They send us voice memos.
42:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I could try to figure out a way to get those on here.
42:50
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be cool.
42:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, we'll see if we have the capability.
42:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love it.
42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, awesome.
42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you can support the reformatory in a number of ways if you choose to do so.
43:00
[SPEAKER_03]: If you like what you hear and you're thinking to yourself, Yeah, I want to see the reformatory.
43:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to see the instant grams and they are a lot more fun to see than just listen to.
43:07
[SPEAKER_03]: You can head on over to YouTube.
43:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, comment, subscribe it.
43:10
[SPEAKER_03]: A little bell for notifications as the kids say we
43:12
[SPEAKER_03]: enjoy people doing that.
43:14
[SPEAKER_03]: You can share this episode with a friend.
43:16
[SPEAKER_03]: We appreciate you send in the reformatory out to other people.
43:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Helps other people be encouraged in making the local church central in their life.
43:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We appreciate that as well.
43:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Last but not least, we have a Patreon.
43:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And for $5 a month, that's all it is.
43:30
[SPEAKER_03]: You could become a Patreon supporter.
43:31
[SPEAKER_03]: You get this episode early.
43:32
[SPEAKER_03]: You get multiple bonus episodes every single week.
43:35
[SPEAKER_03]: You get content that is send exclusively
43:40
[SPEAKER_03]: else, but that would only cost you $5.
43:44
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all it's going to cost for a $5 hauler.
43:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you choose to do so, our pledge to you is a true name.
43:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Shelby Hallowed.
43:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Hallowed, uh, Hallowed.
43:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Hallowed through the halls of the podcast.
43:56
[SPEAKER_03]: That is our pledge to you.
43:57
[SPEAKER_03]: We thank you all for listening.
43:58
[SPEAKER_03]: We will catch you on the next step of the reformatory.