Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Home Self Defense to Murder Charge- Chip Williamson

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Home Self Defense to Murder Charge- Chip Williamson · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
• 0:06
  Welcome to the nightmare success in and out podcast.
• 0:09
  But we explore a, how to overcome your fears and
• 0:11
  Nightmares is set yourself free. We're going to be exploring this
• 0:14
  topic with guys that was in Leavenworth with and others who
• 0:17
  survived their own nightmare. These stories can be inspiring.
• 0:22
  Sometimes sad, there's some humor but hopefully you can come
• 0:26
  away with a nugget of something that will help you knock down
• 0:29
  some of the Ins you built up in your own mind?
• 0:34
  Alright, we're back nightmares. Success in and out listeners,
• 0:38
  man. Do I have a story for you guys
• 0:40
  and a guest today? You know, you hear these stories
• 0:45
  and it's a lot of times you see these stories and Netflix and
• 0:48
  whatever. I've got a guy who actually
• 0:50
  lived it. And I want to, I don't want to
• 0:53
  get too far in into giving his story away.
• 0:55
  But so, Wade, Williamson. He, he lived through a situation
• 1:02
  where somebody literally came to his house said he was going to
• 1:06
  kill him and he had to defend himself and he had to live
• 1:11
  through four and a half years. Of the wildest craziest story
• 1:15
  I've heard in a while and I was telling me before we got on that
• 1:20
  I was watching him back Cox's and I was like man I can't wait
• 1:24
  to interview Wade and have him. Tell the story to you guys.
• 1:28
  You know we come here to this place or you know what happens
• 1:32
  when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 1:34
  How do you adapt and survive way?
• 1:37
  Did it I mean he survived this because you know he had to live
• 1:41
  with the fact that when All this happened and how this came down,
• 1:44
  it took four and a half years for him to figure out if he's
• 1:48
  going to be spending the rest of his life in prison or if he was
• 1:53
  going to walk free. So it is a story before we get
• 1:56
  into it. I want to welcome our new
• 1:59
  sponsor, it's not really a new sponsor, our big sponsor audible
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• 2:50
  since you, okay? Wade, Williamson, let's get into
• 2:55
  this. What?
• 2:56
  I my friend, how are you doing, man?
• 2:59
  Thanks for coming today. No problem.
• 3:02
  Looking forward to looking forward to it.
• 3:03
  I'm about as good as can be, you are so much better than spending
• 3:08
  life in prison by a long shot. Yeah.
• 3:13
  I mean, like so I have to look at it now like even on bad days
• 3:16
  is still better than what I was looking at it at one point in
• 3:19
  time. So that kind of helps me look
• 3:21
  through things with a different set of eyes, so to speak.
• 3:24
  Whenever I have, you know what? I want my consider now bad day.
• 3:27
  I just think of how much worse it could have been.
• 3:29
  Oh man. So true and And you've done some
• 3:32
  things. While you were going through
• 3:33
  this that were really cool. You come, you've got a big show
• 3:37
  on YouTube, that's called crime entertainment.
• 3:40
  And have had some big celebrities on their get a lot
• 3:42
  of subscribers. Very cool, show.
• 3:45
  I checked that out. Let's go back a little bit Wade.
• 3:49
  What, where did way grow up? What was he doing?
• 3:53
  What, how did let's get to know Wade?
• 3:55
  Where were you before? All this happened?
• 3:58
  I grew up in a small town called Darlington, South Carolina and
• 4:03
  listeners. That follow NASCAR may know
• 4:06
  where that is because that's really about the only thing that
• 4:09
  you can associate with it. It was a pretty small town, you
• 4:13
  know, like maybe two Public elementary schools.
• 4:16
  I mean, very very small. I live literally right behind
• 4:20
  the racetrack for many many years.
• 4:22
  So when that weekend would come back when I was growing up they
• 4:25
  actually had two races a year there and I mean, that town turn
• 4:29
  into like a whole nother place for about four or five days, you
• 4:33
  know, a couple days before on up until the race was over.
• 4:36
  I mean, it was just, it was crazy.
• 4:38
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:39
  And so it kind of put our little town on the map there for a
• 4:42
  period of time and I stayed there until 2010, and then I was
• 4:49
  engaged to be married at the time to my fiance, and we moved
• 4:53
  to Charleston, South Carolina. This is probably about 20, Half
• 4:58
  hours up the road and the reason why I moved there I got a job
• 5:02
  with a pretty good Steel company.
• 5:03
  I've been a welder pretty much all my life okay I was well
• 5:05
  isn't good job. Yeah it's one of them things
• 5:08
  like there are some robotic welding but at a certain point
• 5:12
  or machine is not going to be able to take your job because
• 5:14
  they just need welders to do something.
• 5:16
  Right something that machine can't do and that was what I was
• 5:19
  told, you know, I was told hey this is a good trade and you
• 5:23
  know, the teacher even told me this is a job.
• 5:24
  You can do lying down and make a hundred bucks an hour.
• 5:27
  If if Or situations, right? And I thought that sounds like
• 5:30
  something I'd be interested in. So I got on with a company
• 5:35
  called Nucor steel and thus pretty big Steel company.
• 5:38
  Very good benefits and they would pay out once a year.
• 5:42
  They would pay him to your profit sharing.
• 5:45
  And usually at the division, I was at the start with that.
• 5:48
  We give anywhere from 7 to 12 Grand a year, okay?
• 5:51
  That went into your profit sharing and about a thousand or
• 5:54
  two went to you. Now I worked at the one in
• 5:58
  Cumbia South Carolina and commuted back and forth.
• 6:00
  While I was living in Darlington, I transferred to the
• 6:03
  one in Charleston and then move my family to Charleston in 2010
• 6:08
  and work there for another seven years until the story that we're
• 6:12
  fixing to get into. They ultimately if I did you
• 6:14
  have in your family there Wade, was it a like what all did you
• 6:19
  have? You had a wife kids and a wife,
• 6:21
  a daughter and a son? Okay, okay, and I moved up here.
• 6:25
  My son was one year. He had just been born.
• 6:27
  He was one years old, I think We moved up here, okay?
• 6:30
  And I mean, for the most part of me things were going good, you
• 6:32
  know, I mean the job was going good.
• 6:35
  My wife had a decent job. Kids were happy.
• 6:37
  I mean, you know, where all this is, everything was going good
• 6:42
  and there was a, I'm not sure if your listeners are.
• 6:45
  You're familiar with Myrtle Beach at all?
• 6:47
  This is kind of the turning point that started the downward.
• 6:51
  Spiral Myrtle Beach had a, what was called a Carolina Country.
• 6:55
  Music Fest is our first time having this thing.
• 6:58
  It's basically like a That your watered-down version of
• 7:01
  Woodstock. I mean is three names, okay?
• 7:04
  Nothing but country, music, partying drinking, just a good
• 7:07
  old time. And so we said we were going to
• 7:10
  go down there and check it out. And we went down there on a
• 7:13
  Thursday, you know, tied one on Thursday tied, one on Friday
• 7:17
  Saturday Sunday. I think it one point in the
• 7:20
  middle. I had a friend of mine that met
• 7:22
  us down there and he was actually a license medic, like
• 7:25
  he drunk ambulance and he gave me an IV to try to reach.
• 7:29
  Oh my God. Yeah, I can see why people in
• 7:35
  Vegas, go get those things that help.
• 7:37
  Okay, they brought me back to life, and, but still, it was a
• 7:41
  lot of time, you know, not a lot of sleep, a lot of partying, and
• 7:45
  I'd gotten off work went straight down there, and come
• 7:49
  back the night before I was supposed to go back and on day
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  shift. So, you know, obviously I've
• 7:55
  been gone all weekend. I'm trying to get things
• 7:56
  straight around the house. When I get back, get things prep
• 7:59
  the Back to reality. And on the way to work that
• 8:02
  morning plainly, I just fell asleep, one of the room Flatout
• 8:07
  tired. Yeah, just just exhausted.
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  And I used to have to be to work at 6:00 a.m. so I would leave my
• 8:13
  house at, you know, roughly 435 somewhere along in that
• 8:18
  neighborhood and just fell asleep.
• 8:20
  Run off the side of the road. I flipped about seven or eight
• 8:23
  times landed upside down. Oh my God.
• 8:29
  Good Lord. On top of the own, that was the
• 8:32
  only thing that I've seen because it was, obviously still
• 8:34
  dark being that time of morning. And when we looked at what point
• 8:38
  way, did you know, when you were flipping that this time, he got
• 8:42
  can't even imagine. It was really weird because the,
• 8:45
  the road that I was traveling on was a two-lane road.
• 8:48
  It was be expanded into a four-lane road.
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  So, when I went off, I happen to go off at the period where the
• 8:55
  construction had paused for that point.
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  And so I hid like a The concrete that kind of sent me are born
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  and you know, when you run off the road, you know, you hear,
• 9:05
  you know, that sound, you know, Carousel Interstate or whatever,
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  it scares you. Well, I knew I hit something.
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  I heard that initial. Wow.
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  And then I can just tell that I wasn't on the road anymore and
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  when they hit it, kind of barrel, roll corner to corner.
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  And I mean, it was flipping and flipping and flipping.
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  And I'm sitting here thinking, like, God, I got to stop at some
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  point point. I look through the windshield
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  and the last thing I seen was the pickup truck and I landed
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  dead on top of it and everything was silent.
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  And I was like, my first initial thought was I thought I'd killed
• 9:38
  somebody because I thought that car was on the road, wait a
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  minute. You landed on top of the pickup
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  truck on top of it. So my car is upside down on top
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  of the pickup truck, so rooster roof.
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  Wow. And I thought I'd get somebody.
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  I really did. I was, I was, you know, my
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  nerves were shot and I was just like, man.
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  And so I have my seatbelt on and I'm trying to Brace myself.
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  So when I undo my seatbelt, I don't follow my head while I was
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  moving around the car rolled off to the right.
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  So now it's sitting on its passenger door and the driver
• 10:12
  side is up in the air, okay? So still I'm trying to like
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  finagle myself to get out. I would roll the window down the
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  window was shattered, but I had 10 on it so it was able to roll
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  down and I literally climbed out, I like put a foot on the
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  center console and climbed out and was just sitting there kind
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  of taking It all in at that point I realized I was off the
• 10:32
  road. I was in someone's yard.
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  I bet you were worried that thing was going to fall on you.
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  Well I was that's when I was sitting there.
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  I was like, all right I don't want to jump off this thing and
• 10:41
  it rocking and fall on me. So I was trying to assess like
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  the best way to get down and our car happened to come riding by
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  on the road and he's like, dude, are you okay?
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  And I said, man, I think so and he's like, you need me to call
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  an ambulance and I really didn't know at that point.
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  If I heard adrenaline and everything, it would be a girl.
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  I'm like yeah, go ahead and do it.
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  And he was like, why don't? I don't got to stay door.
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  I was like, well I don't guess I don't know.
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  Maybe he'd been drinking or something.
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  You don't want to get on out of there.
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  And I finally found a spot to where I thought it was kind of
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  safe to jump down. I got down, and I went and
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  knocked on the guys door, whose car had just obliterated.
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  And, like I said, it's 5:00 in the morning here.
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  So I'm knocking on the door and he comes, and he's like, yeah,
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  what's going on? I was like, man, that's had a
• 11:25
  little wreck and I said I landed on your pickup truck out here
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  and he's like man, that's my wife.
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  If stroke she's had that thing since high school my well it's
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  it's gone now. He looked out and just kind of
• 11:37
  shook his head and just shut the door.
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  He didn't ask me if I was okay, neither glass of water need to
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  call the ambulance. He just shut the door and went
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  back to bed, I guess. I don't know what's weird.
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  Yeah, I was just like, well at least I let him know and I go
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  back and I sit down and I wait for the ambulance to come and
• 11:55
  they come and they like going up to the car and they kicked the
• 11:58
  back glass out and The matter, the covers like missing wheels
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  and I think every part on it was damaged, but I was just kind of
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  sitting there like what the heck are they doing?
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  And they were looking for other people.
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  They were because I was sitting there, I was just like a
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  passerby, right? And because someone else called
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  to be walking around. Right, right.
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  Exactly. And they were like, you know,
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  where's the driver of the car and I said you're looking at
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  him. He's like, you were driving and
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  I was like, yeah, he's like, where's your passengers?
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  I said there wasn't any passengers.
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  It was just me. And so they strapped me to a
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  board. In this meantime, I did call my
• 12:28
  wife and let her know. So they strapped me to this
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  board. I've got my arms tucked in the
• 12:33
  neck, brace, around my head. I mean, I look like, I'm
• 12:36
  paralyzed the way they have secured to the board and that
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  was happened to be when she was coming pulling up to the scene,
• 12:45
  so to her it look like, it was really bad.
• 12:47
  Yeah. And so I went to the hospital, I
• 12:49
  got checked out and the doctor come up and he was like, you
• 12:52
  know, I don't know who you pray to or what your religious
• 12:54
  affiliation is, he said, but I'd keep doing it.
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  He said by all, intents and purposes, you're you're fine.
• 13:00
  And so broken, bone wise? I was fine.
• 13:03
  I did miss my back up a little bit.
• 13:05
  My L4 L5 and S1 were, we're really, really bothered by this.
• 13:11
  Still get care to this day for it and that kind of started a, I
• 13:16
  guess kind of a downward spiral. If you will I was out of work
• 13:19
  for a period of time. I lost the position that I had
• 13:23
  at the company, I didn't lose my job but I lost the position that
• 13:26
  I held surgery I had to go. Do you think Wade that was Just
• 13:31
  in losing your position. Was that?
• 13:33
  Because you were out because your back.
• 13:35
  Okay, yeah. After after you're out in 90
• 13:38
  days, they have the right to post your job.
• 13:41
  My job was a rather important one.
• 13:43
  So nobody really wants to try to work overtime until you get
• 13:47
  back. They didn't know how long it's
• 13:48
  going to take and they posted okay.
• 13:51
  And so when I coming back I had to take another position.
• 13:54
  I wasn't really keen on it was a little bit less money.
• 13:57
  So obviously that's the, you know, not great either.
• 13:59
  Yeah, I did still have a job and so we're moving forward a little
• 14:04
  bit and you know when a man kind of lose any time that I didn't
• 14:09
  lose my job but you know the money was significant.
• 14:11
  I think men in general when they start doing that, they start to
• 14:13
  feel down on themselves or not bring to, you know, as much to
• 14:17
  the table got demoted. Yeah.
• 14:19
  Yeah. And it started some problems and
• 14:21
  me and my wife were arguing a good bit and mostly about that
• 14:25
  because you know, I'm irritated, I'm Ill.
• 14:26
  So you know, everybody knows when you're that way, you take
• 14:29
  it out on me. The ones you love around you and
• 14:32
  I had a friend that I met in the neighborhood.
• 14:35
  I'd only known the guy for a couple of months and we became
• 14:40
  pretty close to me is very nice dude.
• 14:41
  Anytime we would hang out, you know, he would say yeah come
• 14:44
  over bring a side. Whatever will hang out right by
• 14:46
  the pool and we done that and then one particular night, my
• 14:51
  wife was at another neighbor's house.
• 14:53
  Now, this neighbor is significant to the story because
• 14:56
  he was involved in it. Okay, we were at his house and
• 14:59
  then, We're all sitting in his garage and we hear the screen.
• 15:02
  Well, we kind of was like, we knew that wasn't a scream like
• 15:05
  kids play and it's 12:30 like are something's going on.
• 15:09
  So we go running down the street to where we were hearing the
• 15:12
  screams. And I had just left this house
• 15:16
  across the street where these other people were at, like,
• 15:18
  probably 20 minutes before you. So after I left apparently, they
• 15:22
  went home. Anna argument and the guy pulled
• 15:26
  out a gun and committed suicide while they did you know this
• 15:30
  guy. Yeah, yeah that's the guy out
• 15:32
  there saying. Oh you're talking about it now
• 15:34
  but month. Yeah.
• 15:35
  So like I said, I mean had known him all my life, but in the
• 15:38
  couple of months ago, and so we go up and I see this woman,
• 15:44
  like, rolling on the ground and I go up to her and I'm trying to
• 15:47
  figure out what's going on. I didn't even know it was them
• 15:49
  because when I left them, they were at another party, another
• 15:52
  house. And I realized it was her and
• 15:55
  I'm like know what's going on and she's like, you know, he
• 15:57
  shot himself and I was like who she said her husband's name.
• 16:00
  So we go in the house and it was it and I tell you it was the
• 16:04
  worst thing I've ever seen. I mean just just awful there's
• 16:07
  anything like that, right? No, never not in a still haven't
• 16:10
  even my situation wasn't even his bad.
• 16:14
  And so seeing that visually, you know, having somebody that like
• 16:17
  I said, it's not, I don't want to diminish it.
• 16:20
  I've felt like he was a good friend of mine even though we
• 16:22
  had only known each other. Short period of time.
• 16:24
  But I mean, any any way, you can say that you wanted your life to
• 16:28
  be set a certain way when you were, you know, his age, he had
• 16:31
  a wife, he had two kids. One was fixing to be married.
• 16:34
  The other ones in middle school, had a Mercedes, a work truck, a
• 16:37
  Harley golf cart boat. He had all the things that you
• 16:40
  would say, okay, if you just want to say I won't and and
• 16:44
  unfortunately that's a lot of the times, the people that are
• 16:47
  that are suffering the most that, you know, he did that so
• 16:50
  that compiled with everything else really kind of Sent me in a
• 16:54
  tailspin and if we are already wearing a great place, yeah
• 16:58
  already. And it was more my doing.
• 17:02
  I told my wife that I thought we should separate, you know, we
• 17:04
  were fighting a lot and I was just like, you know, maybe it
• 17:06
  would be better if we just separate.
• 17:08
  I was like, I'm not in a good place and I were fighting in
• 17:10
  front of the kids, it's just not good.
• 17:12
  And I was like I said, I'll leave house and continue to pay
• 17:15
  all the bills, but if you meet somebody, then we will have to
• 17:19
  reassess the situation because I don't really feel like I should
• 17:21
  be paying for another dude on the couch.
• 17:23
  Uh, yeah, that's yeah, watching ESPN.
• 17:25
  Ang don't want to don't want to do all that.
• 17:29
  And so we were apart. I think we split apart in like,
• 17:32
  July of 2017, August September, October October, she tells me
• 17:39
  that she did meet someone and, you know, that it could be
• 17:42
  getting serious, she still kind of stuff in the situation and
• 17:46
  we're cordial but we're not like buddy-buddy either.
• 17:49
  You know, we have kids, we have to figure out what we're going
• 17:51
  to do with that. And she told me that, you know,
• 17:55
  they were getting pretty serious and I'm like, all right.
• 17:57
  Well, you know, remember the deal of you're going to get
• 17:59
  serious then you know you got to go and I'll move back in.
• 18:02
  Did you know the guy at all? Did not know.
• 18:04
  I don't know. I'd never met him.
• 18:06
  He had recent we get more into this later but he was a former
• 18:12
  want to say? He was former Army.
• 18:14
  Yeah. And he had an issue that will
• 18:17
  kind of get into in a little bit where he had some severe PTSD
• 18:21
  and he spent some time in a Cool facility for that like a psych
• 18:25
  facility. Yeah and he recently gotten out
• 18:27
  he moved to Charleston for a fresh start and coincidentally
• 18:30
  happened to be with my wife to the word, okay?
• 18:33
  It was nobody that we knew nobody from you know, an inner
• 18:36
  circle no, just a chance meeting that kind of put all this into
• 18:40
  play. And so, the October, the 31st
• 18:44
  Halloween was the last night that she moved in, we took our
• 18:48
  son trick-or-treating, or last night.
• 18:50
  She stayed rather. She moved out November, the
• 18:52
  first. And really from November until
• 18:55
  December, like mid-December we didn't talk, you know, she was
• 18:59
  doing her thing. I was doing mine and I didn't
• 19:02
  mind that she moved in with that guy.
• 19:03
  The reason being, we were going to be able to fast forward that
• 19:06
  divorce for 90 days. We were going to be able to
• 19:08
  Quick divorce because she was living with him.
• 19:10
  We had already agreed. On the terms of what I was going
• 19:13
  to give her for my retirement. What are, you know, the child
• 19:16
  support situation would be, what the visiting Arrangements would
• 19:19
  be. We already had all that done.
• 19:21
  Okay. And so, you know, with her
• 19:24
  living with the guy, obviously that's technically adultery,
• 19:27
  even though I knew about it, it wasn't behind my back and it was
• 19:30
  just going to fast forward everything.
• 19:31
  So we were okay with. I was seeing other people too, I
• 19:34
  didn't have anybody living with me, but I was seeing other
• 19:36
  people as well. And about mid-December we were
• 19:40
  just kind of talking about what we're going to do for Christmas
• 19:43
  and you know I was liking. So how's things going your way?
• 19:47
  You know I not to Greg you know found out this and this and I
• 19:50
  was just kind of joking. I'm like yeah so it's always
• 19:52
  good in the beginning, ain't it buddy, you know, honeymoon
• 19:59
  phase. And you know, we just kind of
• 20:02
  started like joking around for really the first time since we
• 20:05
  had kind of split up and you could tell there was Still a
• 20:07
  little something there, you know, a little spark and we met
• 20:11
  think, out for lunch one time now, the key part to the story
• 20:15
  here is, you know, we start seeing each other a little bit
• 20:18
  more and I actually go back out of work because of my back
• 20:22
  issues. Okay, out for a little while.
• 20:24
  I'm doing physical therapy. So we kind of talked off and on
• 20:29
  through January through February and through March, you know, it
• 20:32
  wasn't, we weren't sure if either one of us wanted to do it
• 20:35
  again. We obviously knew there was a
• 20:36
  past and History. So there was feelings there but
• 20:39
  we both weren't sure if we were going to, you know, reignite,
• 20:42
  this thing. Did you feel like at that time,
• 20:45
  way that you were coming out of the depression and the stuff
• 20:48
  that you're going through, you feeling better about your world,
• 20:52
  I was feeling a little bit better.
• 20:55
  I had gotten a different position at the place that I was
• 20:59
  working at Nucor. It was a little bit better.
• 21:02
  I was around people that I knew so made work.
• 21:05
  Going to work not quite as difficult.
• 21:07
  Out and two, I really think I just needed a break like, you
• 21:10
  know, I don't think anyone desires to be alone 24/7.
• 21:15
  But sometimes having a little break, and being by yourself and
• 21:17
  being happy, thoughts is not a bad thing.
• 21:21
  And, you know, I got that and then it started Christmas and
• 21:24
  that's, you know, a time for family and, you know, you start
• 21:27
  realizing to what you missed, you know, you don't, you might
• 21:29
  not realize what you're missing Till It's Gone, right?
• 21:32
  And a lot of those things were kind of coming into play and we
• 21:35
  were both, like I said, Under the assumption of hey you know,
• 21:39
  we know there's still something here but we don't know if it's
• 21:41
  something that we can make work, we've tried it a couple times
• 21:44
  and you know we've always kind of wound up on a page where, you
• 21:48
  know, maybe it's best we split. So it was still edgy waters for
• 21:51
  both of us and then we decided to go to her mom's for Easter
• 21:56
  weekend, which was in April. And I just had a procedure done
• 22:01
  on my back and I can't remember the name of it.
• 22:03
  It's a very long name and it's like, where they go in and they
• 22:07
  burn. The nerve endings off of your
• 22:09
  spine that doesn't and what that does it does.
• 22:12
  It's not a pleasant feeling. What it does is it alleviate the
• 22:16
  pain? So, like, when you bend over,
• 22:18
  whatever it doesn't have that shooting pain that goes up.
• 22:21
  And then back now, these nerves, they reattach themselves, but it
• 22:24
  takes about six eight months. So really, you do this twice a
• 22:27
  year and it kind of minimizes your pain and let you leave
• 22:30
  somewhat of a normal life. This was the first time I'd had
• 22:34
  it done. So I was quite sore after this
• 22:36
  and We go to her mom's for Easter, and we kind of decided
• 22:42
  up there. Hey, we're going to give this
• 22:43
  another go, okay. And we had already been to
• 22:46
  divorce court, you know, it was time for us to go to court.
• 22:49
  We were going to go ahead and go forward with it and I'm like,
• 22:51
  here's what I think we should do.
• 22:53
  And we both agreed, we're going to get divorced.
• 22:55
  We're going to get the divorce. I'm going to give you what I
• 22:57
  said I was going to give you if we decide we want to make this
• 23:01
  work, will get remarried, will have a fresh start?
• 23:04
  You'll still have what I gave you if you decide.
• 23:07
  Hey, this isn't what I want, and then you can go your way and I
• 23:10
  can go man. Okay, so that's kind of what we
• 23:12
  were going to do. I was like, you know, if we
• 23:14
  decide, we'll give it another go, it'll be a fresh start whole
• 23:17
  new start. And so, we were there for Easter
• 23:20
  weekend. We went to the beach for two or
• 23:23
  three days. Now, during this time period her
• 23:25
  and this guy, the guy was living with her in the beginning from
• 23:29
  November until I think mid-January.
• 23:32
  Then the guy moved out they were still seeing each other but he
• 23:35
  wasn't living there, okay? Well, when it came to the time
• 23:40
  that we were going to put, you know, try us again.
• 23:42
  I thought I was like alright, well obviously you got to tell
• 23:43
  him you know, they're going to come back to me.
• 23:46
  I'll tell the chick. I'm seeing that, you know, I'm
• 23:48
  going to go back to you obviously, mine didn't really
• 23:51
  care too much because she was just okay, you know?
• 23:53
  It is what it is, right? Well, we come back on Friday and
• 23:59
  I was like, you know what, let him know.
• 24:00
  I'm now trying to work on, getting you moved in Saturday
• 24:04
  and we my son has a soccer game that Saturday morning.
• 24:07
  So, I'll see you at the soccer game, the next morning, I didn't
• 24:09
  want to call her and, you know, be calling in the middle of it.
• 24:12
  So I just so I'll see you in the morning and she said, I didn't
• 24:15
  really get a chance to talk to him.
• 24:17
  She said he come in. He went straight to sleep and,
• 24:20
  you know, I didn't get a chance to even bring it up.
• 24:21
  He said he wasn't feeling well, I'm gonna do it today.
• 24:24
  So I was like, all right, well about 4:00, she called me and
• 24:28
  she's like, well, I gave him the news and he didn't take it very
• 24:30
  well. She said he's gone right now and
• 24:32
  she's like, but I know he's not gone for good because he left
• 24:35
  his dog here. He had a service dog.
• 24:36
  Okay. And I was like, what are you
• 24:39
  going to do? And she's like, I don't know,
• 24:40
  I'm fixing to come over here or come over there.
• 24:42
  Meaning my house, your place now, now, how we where we live,
• 24:45
  at is one big community and then there's different subdivisions
• 24:50
  in that community. So, I lived in one closer to the
• 24:53
  front, she lived, like, one subdivision back, so different
• 24:57
  neighborhood, but drive time, we're talking are apart it five
• 25:01
  minutes. Okay.
• 25:02
  And so, she comes over and we're kind of talking kind of getting
• 25:06
  the bearings on what we're going to do and I'm like, well.
• 25:07
  Where do you think he went? She's like, I'm not sure enough
• 25:10
  of your eyes by here and sees your car here, you know.
• 25:12
  It could cause something. And she was like, well, no,
• 25:14
  you're right. She's like I'm gonna go back
• 25:16
  home in case he comes back and starts showing out.
• 25:18
  I might get a bag together. And then I'll come over here
• 25:21
  tonight. Okay?
• 25:22
  And I, okay, well, we'll go with that.
• 25:24
  And she goes back, and the last time I hear from her, she said
• 25:28
  he come back, but he said he's going to leave.
• 25:31
  And I'm like, all right. Cool.
• 25:32
  I never heard anything else from her for a little while.
• 25:35
  Now I'm at a friend's house in the neighborhood.
• 25:37
  So probably like, 2 minutes from my house and the neighbor whose
• 25:42
  home I mentioned that we were at earlier when the guy committed
• 25:44
  suicide, when we run down there, he calls me and he knows a
• 25:48
  little bit about what's going on.
• 25:50
  He knows that, you know, we've been seeing each other.
• 25:52
  I think I did tell him that. I thought we were gonna get back
• 25:55
  together. He obviously knew about the
• 25:57
  other guy, he's known about the situation kind of from the
• 26:00
  beginning, he's my friend and so he's like, hey he's like, you
• 26:04
  know, I'm not sure what's going on.
• 26:05
  He said, but your wife just rode by here.
• 26:07
  Her and she said L, he said, Liam was in the car with her and
• 26:11
  he said I walked up. He said they pulled up in front
• 26:13
  of the house but nobody got out. And he said so since nobody got
• 26:16
  out, I walked up and he was like you know hey guys what's going
• 26:19
  on? Instead of guy was sitting in
• 26:21
  the passenger seat and said oh we're looking for.
• 26:23
  I think the term he used was fuckhead and he was like, we're
• 26:26
  looking for fucking because when I find him I'm gonna kill him.
• 26:29
  The guy said he's gonna kill you.
• 26:31
  Yeah, he told him there, he's like when I find him I'm going
• 26:34
  to kill him and so he was like, you know, hey what's going on,
• 26:37
  you know? Not talk like that, whatever he
• 26:39
  say, he's trying to Defuse The Situation, a comment down, and
• 26:42
  he did stay. He what he said.
• 26:44
  He said we're going to get her to take me home and I'll come
• 26:47
  back here so he went home and then he drove back to that
• 26:51
  house. Well in between ask you
• 26:53
  something real quick. Yeah, but when he was this guy,
• 26:58
  you know and he has animosity towards you.
• 27:01
  Did you guys ever even met? Like we did meet one time.
• 27:05
  I knew who he was. I mean obviously everybody.
• 27:07
  Gonna, you know, Facebook investigate their own.
• 27:11
  And when I found out who he was, I Googled her Facebook, then
• 27:15
  just looked at his Facebook profile, the best I could and
• 27:18
  you know, I knew what he was, I knew what her who he was, and I
• 27:21
  knew what he looked like. And we actually met probably
• 27:24
  about, I'd say, maybe two or three months around December.
• 27:27
  Okay. After he had, you know, gotten
• 27:30
  involved with my wife and we met at a gas pump, and I was pumping
• 27:33
  gas. He pulled up beside me, got out,
• 27:35
  we kind of locked eyes and he You know who I am.
• 27:38
  And I said, yes, and I take it, you know who I am.
• 27:41
  And he's like, yeah, and he's like weird situation and I was
• 27:44
  like, I said, not for me. Yeah, I was like, you're the one
• 27:47
  who's got to deal with this problem.
• 27:48
  Now, you know, I was a joke or not, like, you're the one who's
• 27:51
  going to have to deal with all this and he kind of laughed and
• 27:53
  we left it as pretty cordial. Yeah.
• 27:55
  It was quarter. I didn't blame dude, man, I
• 27:57
  didn't animosity to him, he didn't sneak in, he didn't write
• 28:01
  break for marriage, he didn't, you know, do anything wrong.
• 28:05
  I told my wife very blatant lie to him.
• 28:07
  She wanted to go find someone else.
• 28:09
  She was more than free. You know, that was her call.
• 28:13
  And if I would have been in his shoes, I would done the same
• 28:16
  exact thing. My wife is very attractive.
• 28:18
  If I don't see an attractive woman that said, hey, I'm going
• 28:20
  through a divorce. Yeah, I would have done the same
• 28:23
  thing so I didn't have any beef with this guy, right?
• 28:26
  I didn't necessarily want to be his friend, but I didn't have
• 28:28
  any beef with right? Get it.
• 28:30
  So when that happened and he said that he's going back to
• 28:35
  their home and like the community behind me.
• 28:38
  And in between the time when he left there to come back, that
• 28:40
  guy called me on the phone and he's like, hey, you know, if you
• 28:43
  ride by here and you see Liam's car here, he said don't stop.
• 28:46
  And I was good and he was like, well, he's like, you know,
• 28:50
  something's going on, I'm not sure what it was but I know.
• 28:52
  I'm not sure what it is, but I know he's pissed.
• 28:54
  He said, but he's coming back here and I'm going to try to
• 28:56
  figure out what's going on. And I said, well, I'm pretty
• 28:59
  sure I know what's going on and why he's upset.
• 29:01
  But yeah, I got you, I won't stop now, he didn't tell me
• 29:04
  that. He said that he didn't tell me
• 29:05
  that, he sold me was going to kill me.
• 29:07
  He just said, Something was wrong and he was going to try to
• 29:09
  figure out what it was. Okay.
• 29:11
  I already knew. I figured he got the news and he
• 29:13
  was, he was pissed. Yeah, he was doing was making my
• 29:16
  wife right around to look for me.
• 29:18
  Okay. Confront T to see if we had been
• 29:20
  seeing each other before he got this new.
• 29:23
  Okay. So I know he's over there.
• 29:26
  I go back to my home. I'm trying to get in touch with
• 29:30
  my wife at this point and she's not answering her phone.
• 29:32
  Going straight to voicemail. Finally, after about 11 o'clock,
• 29:35
  my daughter worked at a Mexican restaurant.
• 29:37
  In the neighborhood, she gets all she goes home.
• 29:41
  My wife calls me from her phone and she's like, hey she said it
• 29:44
  got pretty bad, he said he was going to leave.
• 29:46
  Then he started getting upset saying that, you know, I was
• 29:49
  seeing, you know, before I told him and he smashed my phone.
• 29:53
  Head-butted her, like throw her up against the wall, punch, the
• 29:57
  hole in the wall was stuff in the house.
• 30:01
  Yeah, he got pretty bow and then he made her get in the car to
• 30:04
  ride around and look for me which at that point, that's when
• 30:07
  they pulled up. Ooh, the neighbors.
• 30:08
  Got it. Okay, I'm like, well, what are
• 30:10
  you going to do? You know she said, well, as far
• 30:11
  as I know, he's staying at Jamie.
• 30:13
  And I was like, wow. All right, you know, I guess if
• 30:15
  you feel comfortable, there it is.
• 30:17
  What it is. If he's going to stay at
• 30:18
  Jamie's, I still didn't know exactly what was going on over
• 30:21
  there. But at that point I was just
• 30:24
  letting him handle. It wasn't really my business, I
• 30:26
  wouldn't call it into so I go back home, I'm in bed.
• 30:30
  This is probably like 12:30 at night, I was watching a UFC
• 30:35
  fight on TV and I remember really vividly Is it was like a
• 30:38
  fight right after Conor McGregor like attack that bus and through
• 30:43
  the dolly through the bus window.
• 30:45
  And they were showing that and I get a text and it's from the guy
• 30:50
  and I knew his number. He had texted me or I think my
• 30:54
  wife would text me from his phone one time before when we
• 30:57
  were talking about where we were going to meet, you know,
• 30:59
  exchange my son. So I had his number logged in.
• 31:02
  I knew it was him and he's like, hey, are you awake?
• 31:05
  And I said, yeah, I'm awake and he said, you know, would you
• 31:08
  mind meeting up to talk? And I'm kind of half playing
• 31:11
  dumb, but I'm like about what? And he's like, well, he said, I
• 31:14
  think I'm being lied to and he said, I feel like you'll tell me
• 31:17
  the truth and he said, I just want some answers.
• 31:19
  He said, I'm not trying to fight.
• 31:21
  He said, I don't want no drama. He said, if you're more
• 31:23
  comfortable, we can meet at your friend Jamie's house which was
• 31:26
  the guy's house, he had been at, you know, everywhere.
• 31:29
  And I was like, okay Tom and I was it when you were talking to
• 31:32
  him probably about 12:30 okay, says late.
• 31:35
  But yeah, it's like and So I get in the car, I called my
• 31:40
  daughter's phone back and my wife answered and she was like,
• 31:43
  you know what's going on? That's the way he wants to talk.
• 31:46
  Now, see what had happened here. Previously is he left Jamie's
• 31:50
  house with the agreement that he was going to go home.
• 31:53
  Get his stuff and go to a hotel. Okay well he knew that he went
• 31:57
  back home and started causing more stuff.
• 32:00
  Somebody they're called Jamie instead, I thought he was
• 32:02
  staying with you. He's back down here showing his
• 32:04
  ass. So, Jamie goes to the house.
• 32:08
  He says, hey, you know, you got to come, you told me, you were
• 32:11
  going to leave. You got to come with me.
• 32:12
  He said, I'll come with you. If you let me call Chip and we
• 32:16
  talked our way, you know, some people come and chips with my
• 32:18
  name is what we'll call you Shake Weights last week, you
• 32:22
  weighed in at Hollywood Way? Yeah, he said, if you let me
• 32:26
  call him and get some answers, he said, I'll go back with you
• 32:29
  and he was like, all right, so when he called me, when he was
• 32:32
  texting me, that he was actually in the car with my buddy and
• 32:36
  they were driving back to his house, okay?
• 32:38
  We pull up, I pull up. They pull up about the same time
• 32:42
  and you know basically that's what it was.
• 32:44
  He was wanting to know had we been seeing each other prior to
• 32:47
  him getting the news and I just told him flat out I was like
• 32:50
  look man I was like at the end of the day that's still my wife.
• 32:53
  There's really no need a business I was like but the
• 32:56
  answer your question no I said we recently decided that there
• 32:59
  was still something there. I was like you know we're going
• 33:01
  to give it another shot and there's really nothing, you
• 33:04
  know, you have to say over the matter.
• 33:06
  I was like we're still married right now the end of days.
• 33:08
  The husband and wife. So it is what it is.
• 33:11
  And it got a little heated there for a minute.
• 33:13
  Never never went to blows. I mean it's obviously
• 33:16
  frustrated. He was he was ticked off that he
• 33:18
  was getting the boot. He had no family in the
• 33:21
  immediate area. So I mean, I could tell he was a
• 33:24
  little aggravated, but after I think he knew that I wasn't
• 33:27
  going to give him what he wanted.
• 33:29
  He may have been wanting to bait me into a fight.
• 33:31
  I really don't know. I probably wouldn't have had
• 33:34
  that house just because my buddy was a pretty big, dude.
• 33:37
  Yeah. And I wouldn't have probably
• 33:39
  wanted to pick a fight there because obviously he was going
• 33:41
  to be on my side. But you know, whatever the case
• 33:44
  maybe it didn't go to violence or anything of that nature and
• 33:48
  it the conversation kind of shifted to really three dudes
• 33:52
  just hanging out in the garage. You know, everybody was kind of
• 33:55
  talking about different things they were talking about their
• 33:57
  military careers. My buddy was a coast guard that
• 34:01
  guy was Army. I've never served in the
• 34:03
  military, but, you know, it just wound up being just three dudes
• 34:06
  kind of shooting the shit in the garage.
• 34:08
  So, Is it kind of shifted down gear from?
• 34:11
  Yeah. Yeah, very much.
• 34:12
  So now I'd say probably this is like 3:30 in the morning, my
• 34:19
  friend, maybe for 334 my friend, Jamie, who lived there.
• 34:23
  He's like, man, I'm fixing the, lay it down.
• 34:25
  And he was like, are you going to stay here?
• 34:27
  And he was asking the guy Lee and he said, are you going to
• 34:29
  stay here? And he's like, no, I'll get chip
• 34:30
  to run me home and he kind of looked at me and he's like, are
• 34:34
  you cool with that? And I said, yeah, I'm cool with
• 34:35
  that. And he was like, all right.
• 34:37
  Well, you know, you guys, Be good.
• 34:38
  I'll talk to you all tomorrow so he shuts the garage, we're
• 34:41
  walking to my car and he's like, you know, if I go home we're
• 34:44
  just going to argue and I was like, you got to tell me I'm
• 34:46
  argued with it for many years, you know.
• 34:48
  I know. I know it and he's like, you
• 34:50
  know, if you're cool with it man he said we can just go back to
• 34:52
  your house and I was a little apprehensive about it but I was
• 34:57
  like, you know, this has went in an entirely different direction
• 35:00
  he seems pretty cool. Yeah.
• 35:02
  Get in my car in the the distance from my home to this
• 35:06
  guy's house is, maybe seven or It houses, the only reason I
• 35:09
  didn't walk down there it was because a little chilly.
• 35:11
  Okay. And so we get in the car and he
• 35:14
  proceeds to start telling me the story about that was hooked to
• 35:17
  a, he had a bracelet on his wrist and I don't know if this
• 35:21
  was in kind of contrast to the story about the guy that he
• 35:24
  committed suicide because that actually came up in the garage
• 35:27
  that whole story and he's like, you know, do you know why I wear
• 35:30
  this bracelet? I was like dude I don't know
• 35:32
  nothing about you. I was like I don't know white,
• 35:34
  whatever bracelet I said, only thing I really know about you.
• 35:36
  Your name and that you were in the army.
• 35:38
  And he tells me the story about how he was in service and has
• 35:42
  spring, got shot in the head, and he was trying to save him.
• 35:45
  And, you know, he, the Army said he didn't do something right.
• 35:48
  And so, that's why he got kicked out, and that gave him PTSD, and
• 35:53
  that's kind of why he's in the situation, he's in them.
• 35:56
  And why he's telling me the story?
• 35:58
  He starts to cry. And I mean, grown, man, sitting
• 36:02
  in my car, my front seat and I see tears rolling husband, would
• 36:05
  you think I didn't know? To think, I mean, I obviously,
• 36:09
  he was emotional. Come to find out.
• 36:12
  Story was partially true, but it was fabricated to a degree.
• 36:18
  He wasn't acting. Make sure I were to try, he
• 36:22
  wasn't in combat, he was Intelligence.
• 36:26
  So he was somewhere else, giving Intel to the people that was out
• 36:30
  on the front lines. I guess, if you will, I'm not
• 36:33
  well-versed in military lingo. So if I don't say, the right
• 36:35
  thing, forgive me, but basically he was somebody Computer telling
• 36:39
  them. Hey go here.
• 36:40
  Go there. Go here.
• 36:41
  He gave the guy bad Intel. Which led him into a situation
• 36:47
  where he did get shot. Yeah, so obviously, even even
• 36:50
  though that's still had to bother him, I'm sure.
• 36:52
  Did he probably felt responsible?
• 36:54
  I'm sure. And so he's telling me the story
• 36:57
  and we're kind of sitting there in the car and he's like, you
• 36:59
  know he's like I know this is a weird situation he was like but
• 37:02
  he's like you know I was at a real low time in my life when
• 37:05
  you know I met your wife and he said she know kind of Brought me
• 37:08
  out of a depression. I was like, well, I thought I
• 37:10
  can understand that, man, I said, you know, it's a shitty
• 37:12
  situation, it really isn't no way around it.
• 37:15
  And so at that point, we're sitting in my driveway because
• 37:18
  it didn't take, but just a second to get there.
• 37:20
  Yeah, so we go in my house. And we're in there probably at
• 37:25
  least an hour hour and a half. Now he was a smoker so he had to
• 37:28
  go outside. I didn't smoke in my house so
• 37:30
  you had my camera ring doorbells or it wasn't ring at the time.
• 37:34
  I forgot what it was but it was security cameras and you seem
• 37:37
  like the back door open in the front door open.
• 37:41
  You know, we walk out the front walk out the back room, the
• 37:43
  smoke we're in there, just talking about everything, we're
• 37:46
  talking about random stuff we're talking about, you know, how I
• 37:49
  redecorated the house. I was like, when you know, we
• 37:52
  just separated us Redone everything in here you know just
• 37:54
  to try to change it up where it didn't like you know dredge up
• 37:57
  memories and you know we got even got on the subject of
• 38:00
  tattoos and I kind of pulled down my shirt and I was showing
• 38:03
  them one of the most recent ones I had, and I pointed to the one
• 38:07
  of my chest. Well, when I did that and I
• 38:09
  don't know if you can see it here.
• 38:10
  Yes. Our car is open heart surgery
• 38:13
  scar. Yeah.
• 38:14
  And so he sees that and he's like man, what happened there
• 38:17
  and I said I had open heart surgery in 2001.
• 38:21
  What it was. I was born with what was called.
• 38:23
  Called a vsd, which is a small hole in the heart, my wife does,
• 38:27
  okay? So it really didn't limit me to
• 38:29
  anything. I would have to take certain
• 38:31
  medications before I went to the dentist, things like that but in
• 38:36
  2001 my senior in high school they figured out that the hole
• 38:40
  was a little bit bigger than what they thought and they
• 38:42
  thought it would be better to go ahead and get it packed
• 38:44
  specially since I was still up under my mom's insurance.
• 38:47
  I was about to be alone. All right, and he you know,
• 38:50
  better to do it now than you know, when you're 50 and can't
• 38:52
  recoup. Gretchen.
• 38:53
  Oh yeah. So my senior in high school I
• 38:56
  had that done. So he notices that scar, I tell
• 38:59
  him kind of the story and he pulls up my shirt from the
• 39:02
  bottom. Yeah, well, he was doing it to
• 39:05
  see the whole scarf because I was like, I had open, heart
• 39:08
  surgery in 2001, so he pulls up my shirt and he season now when
• 39:12
  he does this, there's no way he can't see that.
• 39:15
  I'm carrying the gun on my head. Okay, A little bit of background
• 39:19
  about me and guns because a lot of people say, oh well, it's
• 39:22
  mighty funny. You had a gun.
• 39:23
  You know, when you were going to see them, I was like, look, I
• 39:25
  had a gun if I was going to see a postman like it doesn't matter
• 39:29
  I've since I was 18 years old. I've only gun.
• 39:33
  I had a cwp probably two years prior to this way.
• 39:36
  Before any of this stuff happened that particular gun
• 39:39
  that I had on me. I had been pulled over by law
• 39:42
  enforcement with the numbers on that gun ran.
• 39:46
  So it was documented that that would be the gun that I would be
• 39:48
  caring. So all that was not out of the
• 39:51
  norm regardless of what people You may want to spin it and he,
• 39:55
  he either didn't see it. I don't know how you didn't see
• 39:58
  it, but if he did see it, he didn't acknowledge.
• 40:00
  Okay? He shirt back that discussion
• 40:02
  about it. No discussion about, it didn't
• 40:04
  mention it, or nothing. He puts my shirt back down, and
• 40:07
  he's like, man, you know, he said under different
• 40:09
  circumstances he said you and I would have probably been like,
• 40:11
  great friends and he kind of comes in and does like one of
• 40:14
  those bear-hug type deals, you know, especially when guys that
• 40:17
  have had a drink or two. Yeah.
• 40:18
  Oh, kind of bear hug. You pick you up with him, put
• 40:20
  you right back down, it done. That I found that to be a little
• 40:24
  odd, but at the same time, I didn't know how this guy is
• 40:27
  alcohol was, I didn't know how many beers he had drank, he
• 40:30
  drank a couple of beers at that garage.
• 40:33
  Once we had got the, my house. I think he, and I did share a
• 40:35
  shot, maybe one, maybe two, but I didn't, he didn't appeared,
• 40:39
  like, very inebriated to me, but I've seen that kind of thing
• 40:43
  from people before, you know, just that bro hug, I guess they
• 40:46
  call it. Yeah, when he sends me down,
• 40:48
  he's like, where's your bathroom?
• 40:50
  And I point them down the hall to the bathroom.
• 40:53
  So he goes and at this point, I still haven't made contact with
• 40:55
  my wife and our she doesn't really know what's going on.
• 40:58
  Last she knows that we were going.
• 41:00
  Yeah and why text and I was like, hey are you awake?
• 41:03
  She responded back. She's like yeah.
• 41:05
  What the hell is going on? And I was like you know,
• 41:06
  everything's good we're at my house you know everything's good
• 41:10
  and I'm sitting there up against my stove now to kind of give you
• 41:13
  a layout of my kitchen, you have a hallway from the bathroom that
• 41:16
  comes up after that your your refrigerator is immediately to
• 41:20
  your right once you in that wall to get into the Kitchen.
• 41:23
  Then you have a little bit of counter space and then it curves
• 41:26
  back around. You got a stove, another little
• 41:28
  bit of counter space curves. Back the other way with a sink.
• 41:32
  So, not a very big broad area. I'm up against the stove, just
• 41:36
  kind of sitting there. That's where the, you know, the
• 41:38
  drinks and everything were in that general area.
• 41:41
  He comes around the corner, he doesn't say a word.
• 41:43
  He comes straight up to me and Bam left arm up under my chin
• 41:48
  pushing me. He, it wasn't really choking me
• 41:51
  so much, it was pushing me back. I'm pushing my head back.
• 41:54
  So what's up? Much so cold.
• 41:56
  He was just, he was pushing your neck.
• 41:57
  Yeah, kind of using it to control me.
• 41:59
  Basically, use push-up, not back.
• 42:02
  And so I actually go off my feet.
• 42:05
  Like, at this point, I'm sitting on the, on the stove.
• 42:08
  And I'm just, like, what the hell is going on?
• 42:10
  And he's like, he looks me dead in my, and I remember this to
• 42:14
  the day, I die. I remembered looking into his
• 42:16
  eyes and I didn't see a color, his eyes, look white.
• 42:20
  And he says, I'm gonna fucking kill you.
• 42:22
  Wow, who's really Edwards and my okay, to swear on the no,
• 42:25
  absolutely. I'm your explicit on nightmare
• 42:28
  success but he just, he just comes out and says, I'm going to
• 42:32
  fucking kill you. Yeah, straight up.
• 42:35
  I mean, some kind of switch happen when he goes to the
• 42:38
  bathroom and he's after you full on.
• 42:42
  Well, what looking back in retrospect?
• 42:44
  What I think that pickup was, yeah, the kind of tests and see
• 42:49
  art. Can I pick this guy up?
• 42:51
  Can I see him during? Yeah.
• 42:53
  And I see if I can have my way with this looking now.
• 42:56
  I think that's less than you did before he went to the restroom.
• 42:59
  Yeah the very last thing he did. So looking back how it kind of
• 43:02
  seems like maybe this was a setup to try to get me to maybe
• 43:06
  drop my guard and then try to do what he was going to do.
• 43:09
  So he says that and I'm like, I'm trying to get off of the
• 43:12
  stove. I was able to slide off of the
• 43:14
  stove. He comes up with his knee to try
• 43:17
  to like nemean my side. I kind of turn my body a little
• 43:20
  bit. So I kind of ducked that and I
• 43:22
  told Him. I was a dude if you don't get
• 43:24
  the fuck off me. I'm gonna shoot you.
• 43:26
  He cocks back with his right hand.
• 43:28
  He's already coming back. He still holding me up under the
• 43:30
  chin. I see it coming, so I try to
• 43:33
  move back a little bit to duck it, and he still Clips the
• 43:36
  bottom of my chin. He doesn't hit me flush, upside
• 43:38
  the face, he Clips the bottom of my chin with his knuckles.
• 43:41
  Well, he's holding me with his left hand, so when he's right
• 43:44
  comes across, it makes him break that hole because his forces
• 43:48
  coming across over the top of it.
• 43:50
  And he kind of stumbles like over a foot or two.
• 43:53
  At this point, I like, I stepped like one step back.
• 43:57
  I'm up against my counter, I'm literally in the corner, he's
• 44:01
  already turning back to come back at me, so I drew out my gun
• 44:05
  and I shot. I thought it was two times.
• 44:08
  Turns out later, it was actually three.
• 44:11
  It was real quick. It was real loud.
• 44:14
  I never fired a gun in a house before like that.
• 44:17
  I mean most, I ain't time I've ever fired a gun.
• 44:19
  It's either been Outdoors or in a range, but I mean it was so
• 44:23
  Damn loud. It made my ears ring he
• 44:25
  immediately dropped and I was just like, you know, kind of
• 44:28
  rubbing my eyes. I was like, oh shit!
• 44:31
  No. What the fuck?
• 44:31
  Yeah. Grab the phone.
• 44:33
  I called 911. And I just told him I was like
• 44:36
  look, this was a key that thing that kept coming up the 911
• 44:40
  call. I said in the beginning, I said
• 44:43
  I had a friend of mine in my house.
• 44:45
  He came at me. He hit me.
• 44:47
  He said he was going to kill me. I had no choice.
• 44:49
  I had to shoot me saying that I had a The mind in my house that
• 44:54
  got ripped apart and you know, looked at under different eyes.
• 44:59
  I didn't know what else to say. I didn't I couldn't tell the 911
• 45:02
  of. All right.
• 45:03
  Well let me explain to you the situation before I think right.
• 45:05
  Who just shot somebody? Yeah, I mean I just didn't know
• 45:09
  what to say. I was a journaling Rush was
• 45:11
  absolutely off the charts. It was through the fucking roof.
• 45:15
  Yeah. And so I mean Hearts but that
• 45:17
  was just the first thing that comes out of my mouth and the
• 45:20
  other thing way that I don't want to, I don't want to roll
• 45:22
  over. Here is because there's been a
• 45:24
  lot of talk, you know, in the world that we live in right now
• 45:28
  about guns and and, you know, police officers and like, why
• 45:32
  are they using? You know, when somebody comes at
• 45:35
  you and they're they're well, first of all, his intent was to
• 45:39
  kill you in your own home. If he grabs that gun, he kills
• 45:44
  you with that gun. You know, it's kind of like one
• 45:46
  of those police officers. You know, they get into these
• 45:48
  these situations, you know. Get the they.
• 45:50
  So why did why do you just wrestling?
• 45:51
  Don't you rest? Somebody on the ground and you
• 45:54
  have a gun on your hip that means that you can die with your
• 45:57
  own gun. So I mean, you were in a really
• 45:59
  weird situation in a very small corner of your kitchen, was
• 46:04
  somebody who had flipped a switch and not to mention this
• 46:08
  do was not a ver, I'm not a small individual, right?
• 46:12
  And we'll get into later, he had actually started doing cycles of
• 46:15
  steroids, which he took that night, he took a cycle of, they
• 46:19
  found two vials in a trash race and wife.
• 46:23
  Residents. So you looking at now he's
• 46:25
  taking steroids. He's on prescription pills
• 46:28
  because he had PTSD and it was later found out that he was
• 46:31
  three times the legal limit and alcohol that all come back in
• 46:33
  the Autumn did you know he was done like when he's when you
• 46:36
  call did not, did you know what was going on?
• 46:39
  Well I mean I knew what was going on.
• 46:41
  In says that he was shot now, he was making noises, I think if
• 46:45
  you listen to the show that I did on concrete, they actually
• 46:48
  played portions of that golf segment so you could hear him.
• 46:53
  Noises in the background. Now he was not talking, he never
• 46:56
  spoke. Yeah, but these were just, I
• 47:01
  mean, I guess we're all on. It takes for the how long, the
• 47:04
  like when you called to when the police showed up?
• 47:07
  Like where was it a long time or were you were there were they
• 47:10
  there were like quickly, the police showed up, I'd say
• 47:13
  probably in about nine or ten minutes of calm conversation was
• 47:16
  like right at 10 minutes long, okay.
• 47:19
  And so and now this time at this time in the morning Is probably
• 47:23
  like right at 6:00. It's between 5:30 6:00 in the
• 47:26
  morning, okay? So not a lot of traffic on the
• 47:28
  road. I've seen the cam footage from
• 47:30
  the time. The officer got the call,
• 47:31
  there's not a lot of traffic a Sunday morning.
• 47:34
  He was able to hammer down and get there pretty quick.
• 47:36
  Yeah, during the phone call, the 911, operator told me she was
• 47:39
  like, you know, she was asking me questions.
• 47:41
  She's like, how many times was he shot?
• 47:43
  I told her twice. She said, you know, is he
• 47:45
  breathing? I said he's making noises, she
• 47:48
  told me to go get a towel. Put it over the wounds when I
• 47:51
  pulled up his shirt. I uh, He seen to entrance holes,
• 47:54
  which kind of reconfirmed that it was twice.
• 47:56
  There was another one I didn't pull the shirt up quite far
• 47:59
  enough. I leave the shirt on there.
• 48:02
  I even tell the 911 eyebrows that look I don't know what I'm
• 48:04
  doing. I was like I said I've got it on
• 48:05
  here but you know I don't know what I'm doing.
• 48:07
  And you know, finally the cop got there, she told me to go
• 48:10
  outside, you know, surrender to the cop.
• 48:13
  I did, he immediately placed me in handcuffs and he said, you're
• 48:16
  not under arrest. He said we're just doing this to
• 48:18
  assess the situation. Okay.
• 48:21
  All right. I told him where he was at.
• 48:23
  Holding the gun was on the counter and at that point he did
• 48:26
  Place me in cuffs. Another car pulled up probably
• 48:29
  within a minute of him. And that particular vehicle,
• 48:33
  they put me in the back up. Now this point, I'm in the back
• 48:36
  of the vehicle, don't really know what's going on.
• 48:39
  I'd say probably five or six, seven minutes after that, an
• 48:43
  ambulance pulls up to the house and then everybody else starts
• 48:47
  to follow in. So you got deputies, you got
• 48:49
  SUV, you got Fire EMS SUV vehicles, I mean, they're lining
• 48:53
  the street and buy now it's, you know, 637 people are starting to
• 48:57
  get every summer, we write and man, I'm telling you my
• 49:01
  neighborhoods. Like, if you go outside in your
• 49:02
  yard and you fall down, you're already in the neighbor's yard.
• 49:06
  It's real close too. Close together.
• 49:08
  Proximity. So I see blinds open and people
• 49:11
  are riding by people are riding by on golf carts, trying to
• 49:14
  figure out what the heck is going on.
• 49:15
  Because nothing like this had ever happened, right?
• 49:17
  And this and I'm still sitting in the car can't really do
• 49:21
  anything. A couple of guys like looking at
• 49:23
  me through the window going like that and you know I can't talk
• 49:26
  to him. I'm in the car.
• 49:27
  They can't hear me and it seemed like forever but I'd say
• 49:31
  probably, maybe 45, 50 minutes, close to an hour, the female
• 49:35
  Cop. That was the second to arrive
• 49:37
  comes back over and at that point she reads me my right?
• 49:39
  She's like you're being placed under arrest.
• 49:41
  You know she gives me the whole you know Miranda right thing and
• 49:45
  she said, you know do you want to answer any questions?
• 49:47
  I said no, not without a lawyer and she was like, okay and she
• 49:51
  walks away. What do you and that was what
• 49:53
  are you thinking at that time? Wait, I'm still thinking that
• 49:57
  there's no way I'm going to get in trouble for this time.
• 49:59
  Thinking I was in my own house. That's my gun.
• 50:02
  That's not an illegal gun. I was licensed to carry.
• 50:05
  See that gun anywhere, but definitely in my own home, he
• 50:08
  can't me. He said he was gonna kill me.
• 50:10
  I just had back surgery. I wasn't able to try to fight
• 50:13
  this guy off, you know. Everything is there for them to
• 50:17
  see? If they look at they start
• 50:19
  investigating the story though, he was just getting the boot.
• 50:22
  That's probably why he was pissed.
• 50:23
  I'm thinking they're going to do their job and they're going to
• 50:26
  see this and everything's going to be.
• 50:27
  Okay. Yeah, I'm thinking in my mind,
• 50:29
  there's no reason I should be worried.
• 50:33
  Well I'm in the car. Probably another two hours on
• 50:36
  top of this. Now it's been a while and I got
• 50:40
  to use the bathroom and there was a that's point.
• 50:42
  My wife had actually come up. I seen her through the back
• 50:45
  window, there's probably 15 cops in the yard.
• 50:48
  I mean it's it's chaos. And I finally motions, one of
• 50:51
  the cop says I'm an I got to use the bathroom and he's like
• 50:54
  you're gonna have to hold it and I'm like that an option.
• 50:56
  There's you know I'm gonna go it's either going to be in this
• 50:59
  car or you can let me in the house or something but like I'm
• 51:03
  going now and he's like, hold on.
• 51:05
  So he walks over. He comes back, he lets me out to
• 51:08
  go into the front door and he said, this is your house.
• 51:10
  That's yeah, this is my house. I live here and so he lets me go
• 51:13
  to the bathroom. I come out.
• 51:15
  And he said, we got to collect your clothes.
• 51:16
  He said, can you take us to your closet?
• 51:18
  We need to get off everything that you got and he said then
• 51:21
  we'll go from there. So we go upstairs or go to my
• 51:23
  closet. They take my boots, my pants my
• 51:27
  shirt. I think pretty much everything I
• 51:29
  had on some underwear they let me keep those, okay?
• 51:33
  So I get redressed and I come back downstairs, I think they
• 51:36
  took some pictures of me and then the Gap, one of the
• 51:40
  detectives it was there he said, is there somewhere?
• 51:42
  You can go while we finish our investigation, my mind I'm like
• 51:46
  all right well maybe they're already getting peace and shit
• 51:49
  together because of minute ago, I worked an hour ago I was
• 51:51
  arrested. Now he's asking if there's
• 51:53
  somewhere I can go till they finish right there.
• 51:55
  Yeah. Like I see my buddy out there on
• 51:57
  a golf cart. I said, he lives around the
• 51:58
  corner at, you know, whatever the address.
• 52:01
  I said, I could go there and he's like, All right.
• 52:03
  He said I'll come there when we're done so I come out by this
• 52:06
  time, my mom has already been called, she lived about two and
• 52:09
  a half hours away, she's there, you know, it's like I said, it's
• 52:14
  chaos but I go see her and I'm like, hey drive me around the
• 52:16
  corner of the, you know, this guy's house, I'll tell him go to
• 52:19
  your house, I'll be over in a second, so we go over there.
• 52:23
  I'm still my mind still, you know, going 100 miles an hour,
• 52:25
  adrenaline's still pumping them trying to kind of piece
• 52:27
  together. What's going on?
• 52:29
  I'm telling them what happened? No, but, nobody knew anything
• 52:32
  about what had happened. They just got the call that, you
• 52:34
  know, after the after the fact so I'm trying to glue them in.
• 52:38
  I'd say probably 45 minutes after that SUV.
• 52:41
  Cop comes pulling up, I go up to the window and he's like, are
• 52:45
  you ready to come to the station?
• 52:47
  Answer some questions. I was like, I already told the
• 52:49
  lady, I was like, I'll come, but I'm not coming without a lawyer
• 52:52
  and he said, who's your lawyer by the time?
• 52:54
  I didn't have a lawyer. I had the guy who I was using
• 52:56
  for my divorce, which was a former cop.
• 53:00
  So he knew and he's like, well, I know him.
• 53:02
  He's like, like, you know, he used to be one of us.
• 53:04
  He said I'll call his office tomorrow morning.
• 53:06
  We'll set up a time for you to come in.
• 53:08
  Okay, I was alright, that works for me.
• 53:10
  I said, so I can go back home and he said, yeah, and I asked
• 53:12
  him, I said, well what about, you know, the mess I said, is
• 53:14
  there anything he clamp? And he said, that's not our
• 53:16
  problem. He said we don't handle that.
• 53:18
  Like all right and actually that's true.
• 53:21
  He said it in pretty Brash smartass way but that actually
• 53:24
  is true. If something happens in your
• 53:27
  home that's not their responsibility clean up.
• 53:30
  They do their investigation. They are Do and then they're
• 53:33
  out, you have to hire a cleaning crew or do it yourself for
• 53:36
  whatever you see fit but it isn't their responsibility to
• 53:39
  clean up. So happens.
• 53:42
  This particular whole incident there was nothing when we walk
• 53:46
  back in the kitchen, where knowing yet?
• 53:48
  At this time? I did not get worried that he
• 53:52
  was dead at that time. The last word that I got was
• 53:56
  that he was at the hospital and they gave him a one percent
• 53:59
  chance of living. Okay?
• 54:01
  I knew that his eyes obviously wasn't very good, but I had not
• 54:04
  got a word yet by then that he was Decker.
• 54:08
  Where he was laying out in the kitchen, there was like a little
• 54:12
  bit of smeared Blood on the hardwood floors.
• 54:16
  And when I say a little bit, I'm talking to the extent, my mom
• 54:19
  got a napkin, she wet it and she wiped it all up and it was gone
• 54:24
  with one swipe of one napkin. That was the, the blood, a lot
• 54:27
  of blood. Not a lot of blood.
• 54:30
  What had happened. These were full metal jacket
• 54:32
  rounds. These weren't hollow point
• 54:33
  bullets, so it was everything was through and through.
• 54:37
  True except for 1, 1 State inside, two of them went
• 54:41
  through. Now, these are key factors here.
• 54:43
  One of them went through him, struck my refrigerator, which
• 54:47
  was, as I said, remember if you coming down the hall and you
• 54:50
  step into the kitchen, your refrigerators immediately to
• 54:52
  your right. So the only way for you to
• 54:55
  strike a refrigerator is you've got to be across from it
• 54:58
  somewhat aiming at it which put me directly in the corner where
• 55:03
  I said I was it actually Nick the handle, hit the door and
• 55:06
  ricocheted and hit. Wall.
• 55:08
  The other bullet hit to the side of the refrigerator.
• 55:12
  It was a 24-pack of, I think, like Aquafina water sitting
• 55:16
  there. It went through about three
• 55:17
  bottles of water and landed in the, in the bottom of they never
• 55:22
  found that. Wow.
• 55:25
  Okay. And never even found that
• 55:27
  bullet. So we get there.
• 55:29
  We're kind of still mine, still kind of racing.
• 55:32
  I do get the word that he passed away.
• 55:35
  So at this point, I called the lawyer to tell him what's going
• 55:38
  on, he's like, babe office and you know, 8:00 tomorrow morning.
• 55:42
  So didn't really sleep much that night drilling was still kind of
• 55:46
  wide open at this point. We start moving everything
• 55:50
  because the whole I guess mission to this was to start
• 55:55
  getting my wife. Moved in anyway, that's very
• 55:59
  quickly, kind of sped up this process to get everything from
• 56:02
  that house back over to our house, try to give some
• 56:05
  stability to my kids because obviously my son didn't really
• 56:09
  know exactly what was going on. He obviously knew there was a
• 56:11
  lot of people. He's probably eight years old at
• 56:13
  the time, my daughter comprehended, what was going on?
• 56:16
  So we were trying to get them back in the house that they knew
• 56:18
  they were comfortable in. Is this all that on the news and
• 56:21
  stuff? Wait, oh yeah.
• 56:22
  Yeah. That's all over the news news,
• 56:24
  cameras were camped out of the house for two and three days.
• 56:28
  Just waiting and like recording. And would have been crazy for
• 56:32
  the family. Yeah, it was.
• 56:34
  And then, I mean, you just walking out seeing news people
• 56:37
  and I mean it, like I said, nothing that I know of had ever
• 56:39
  had. We had some instances here and
• 56:41
  there, but Nothing to this extent.
• 56:44
  And so I meet up with the lawyer the next morning and he's like,
• 56:48
  I want you to write me a statement exactly what happened.
• 56:51
  So actually, he told me that the night before he said, I want you
• 56:54
  to write me up a statement and bring it with you tomorrow.
• 56:57
  So I come and I gave him a statement and he looks at it and
• 57:00
  he calls the, I guess the investigator and he was like, no
• 57:04
  send me all your questions and we'll answer.
• 57:06
  So I guess they sent a list of questions and then he sends it
• 57:10
  back and he said everything you want to know.
• 57:12
  As an estate and I was like, so we're not going up there and
• 57:15
  he's like, no, we ain't going up there.
• 57:16
  He's like everything he wanted to know.
• 57:17
  Do they got answering your statement?
• 57:18
  He's like, they need anything else.
• 57:19
  They're called me and I'll call you.
• 57:21
  And so, I'm like, all right, well, no, if you say we're good,
• 57:24
  we're good. So I leave.
• 57:26
  This is Monday ever heard anything Monday?
• 57:29
  Never heard anything Tuesday. Wednesday.
• 57:32
  He calls me about 3:30, 4:00 in the afternoon.
• 57:35
  Oh my God, this can be good or bad, I answer the phone.
• 57:39
  He's like, hey, I got bad news. That's not what you want your
• 57:42
  lawyer to say. As soon as you open up your
• 57:45
  telephone conversation. No, and up.
• 57:47
  What is it? And he said, they're charging
• 57:50
  you with murder and I'm like, you got to be shitting me.
• 57:52
  That's really bad news. Yeah.
• 57:54
  And I'm like, yeah, that's not even.
• 57:57
  The bad. Doesn't even cover.
• 57:58
  That's like. And he's like, yeah.
• 58:01
  And he's like, they're charging you with murder.
• 58:03
  And I was like, why? And he was like, I don't know.
• 58:05
  He said, I asked him, why she said all they said was they were
• 58:08
  charging him with murder and possession of a weapon during a
• 58:10
  violent crime. He said, the only thing I can
• 58:12
  figure is they're trying to spend.
• 58:14
  This is like a love triangle thing and you killed him to get
• 58:16
  your wife back and I'll go. But dude, like she was coming
• 58:19
  back anyway like yeah, why was I need?
• 58:23
  Why would I need to kill somebody who no longer a factor?
• 58:25
  Like it's not like just found out about this.
• 58:27
  They have been together for months before it happened back
• 58:30
  in November. I'm I can see him, you know?
• 58:33
  I'm like but this is you know, six months after the fact.
• 58:35
  Fact and he's level, whatever the case.
• 58:37
  He said, they want you to turn yourself in tomorrow 12:00 and I
• 58:41
  was like, all right, well let me call you back.
• 58:44
  I hang out with him, I start making calls the people that I
• 58:47
  know telling them what's going on.
• 58:48
  What they're charging me with. And one name keeps popping up is
• 58:51
  like calling me calling me calling me.
• 58:53
  And this guy's name is Andy Savage and he is the best crime
• 58:58
  in my money. Best one ever, you know?
• 59:00
  No better. Yeah.
• 59:02
  But definitely in South Carolina especially in the Charleston
• 59:06
  area. Like, he's the guy you go to
• 59:07
  when you're being charged with something like that, he's the
• 59:09
  guys that cops go to, okay? When their charge was tough, but
• 59:12
  he's a known. Oh man.
• 59:14
  Yeah, he's an old man. He's really expensive but he's
• 59:18
  also really good because the extent that he goes to to prove
• 59:22
  what you're saying is beyond anything I'd ever seen.
• 59:25
  So I call him at this time, I think it may have been his
• 59:28
  office. May have been closed.
• 59:29
  I leave a message and he I kind of tell him what's going on his
• 59:33
  secretary calls and she said, hey be there at 7:00 tomorrow
• 59:36
  morning and kind of let Andy know what's going on.
• 59:39
  I'm like, all right, I'll be there.
• 59:41
  So we're there, his office is Downtown, Charleston.
• 59:44
  I explained everything to him. And he's like, you know, why are
• 59:46
  we here? And I'm like, I was your guess
• 59:49
  is as good as mine. He said, it sounds like a clean
• 59:51
  shoot. He's like, I don't understand it
• 59:53
  and he's like his an election year somebody running for office
• 59:56
  what's going on? And I said, but I don't know, I
• 59:59
  was at all and thing I can tell you is what I'm telling you the
• 1:00:01
  truth and he said well he said that was my next statement.
• 1:00:03
  He said, if you're lying he said the people that I have they're
• 1:00:06
  going to go into this and investigator he said they'll
• 1:00:08
  find out real quick and instead of you're lying You know, it's
• 1:00:12
  going to be found out and I said, I'm telling you, I'm not
• 1:00:14
  lying. Everything is right on the
• 1:00:16
  board. I was like I said, I'm uniquely
• 1:00:18
  in a position to where in this situation I don't have to lie
• 1:00:21
  about a damn thing after the matter of fact, the truth is
• 1:00:24
  going to help me as opposed to her and he was like, all right,
• 1:00:29
  well, we will start getting everything ready.
• 1:00:31
  He's like, but wait a minute, he's to let me see if I can get
• 1:00:33
  you putting yourself or turning yourself in pushback.
• 1:00:37
  He got it, pushed back to Friday.
• 1:00:39
  Come Friday. He actually got it pushed all
• 1:00:41
  the way to Sunday. Well, I've got it from Wednesday
• 1:00:44
  to Sunday when at that point. I know, I got to turn myself in,
• 1:00:48
  so we start getting character letters, ready from people
• 1:00:52
  during that initial visit as we're telling we start going
• 1:00:55
  more into the story. My wife starts going more into
• 1:00:57
  his store. Not in jail.
• 1:01:00
  No, I'm not in jail. He's got till Sunday and you
• 1:01:02
  find out, right? Yeah, I got some I got some free
• 1:01:04
  time as my wife's kind of telling him stuff about him and
• 1:01:08
  his family and his past. They're printing off stuff.
• 1:01:11
  They're getting records. It was like, something out of a
• 1:01:13
  movie is quicker. Say something.
• 1:01:15
  They're getting records. Okay.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah, he he went to the military here.
• 1:01:18
  He was here. I mean, it was picking all that
• 1:01:20
  stuff. Yeah.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah, it was, it was kicking. It was just left and right of
• 1:01:25
  being and stories, and it was just unlike anything I've ever
• 1:01:27
  seen. So we get everything prepped and
• 1:01:30
  ready. I've got to turn myself in at
• 1:01:32
  like 1:00 on Sunday. So Saturday, all my family comes
• 1:01:37
  down, they come to the house, you know.
• 1:01:39
  Parties, the wrong word because it definitely wasn't a fun
• 1:01:41
  party. But I think more or less than
• 1:01:43
  just a gathering of everybody get together.
• 1:01:45
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  Hopefully for the crisis. Yeah.
• 1:01:48
  I get it. So we get together the next
• 1:01:51
  Sunday. It was kind of like that scene
• 1:01:53
  and if you ever seen Goodfellas, where he goes out and gets in
• 1:01:56
  the car and he's like, all right, take me to jail.
• 1:01:58
  And that's exactly what happened.
• 1:02:00
  My mom actually drove me to jail and drop me off.
• 1:02:03
  And I went in getting booked in. I was told like they don't
• 1:02:07
  always give bond some murders. Yeah.
• 1:02:09
  Yeah in fact it's more. I think it's probably more
• 1:02:11
  Uncommon that they do. Yeah it's very uncommon way.
• 1:02:15
  Before we get into you get in jail, going to take a break here
• 1:02:18
  and and and recognize our second sponsor of the show, which is a
• 1:02:23
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• 1:02:26
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• 1:02:28
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• 1:02:32
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• 1:03:07
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• 1:03:19
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• 1:03:24
  got a crisis, built for battle are and Duncan it's the man you
• 1:03:28
  need to talk. To might have been good to have
• 1:03:30
  Aaron Duncan walking into jail with you there?
• 1:03:32
  Wait, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:03:34
  It might have been that one man. I've never been arrested before.
• 1:03:38
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:03:39
  No speeding. Ticket was the worst thing on my
• 1:03:42
  record and so I go in, I get fingerprinted and you know
• 1:03:45
  they're doing all the normal stuff.
• 1:03:47
  I mean II closest thing I have been locked up is just what I've
• 1:03:49
  seen on TV. Yeah.
• 1:03:51
  You know. So I'm getting fingerprinted I
• 1:03:53
  go in the holding cell and I'd already been told hey a Magister
• 1:03:57
  is not going to be able to do anything for your case, you're
• 1:04:00
  going to have to get seen by Circuit Court.
• 1:04:02
  Now luckily we caught a break because Circuit Court rotates
• 1:04:06
  from County to County. And so a lot of counties in This
• 1:04:09
  area just so happens. Circuit Court was in Berkeley
• 1:04:13
  County that week. Good news.
• 1:04:15
  We caught a break with that. He's like, you'll get a court
• 1:04:17
  date Monday. And I'm like, all right good.
• 1:04:20
  So the magistrate did call you. That's just protocol.
• 1:04:23
  They're going to call to go to the Magister we go in.
• 1:04:26
  It was me this other kind of biker-looking do that.
• 1:04:29
  He got picked up for a DUI, on a young kid.
• 1:04:32
  We all go in there. My name is Williamson.
• 1:04:34
  So obviously, I'm last now. This biker guy been chatting me
• 1:04:38
  up the whole time. We were sitting in There and
• 1:04:39
  I've always just been told, keep yourself.
• 1:04:41
  Don't say anything. Mind your own business and he's
• 1:04:44
  just steady. Yep.
• 1:04:45
  Yep. Talking talking and I'm like,
• 1:04:47
  I'm not being rude. So I'm like yeah, whatever.
• 1:04:50
  And so we're sitting in there in the young kid had like a simple
• 1:04:52
  possession marijuana charge. He gets a PR bond.
• 1:04:55
  This guy was on a second DUI. Gave him like a ten thousand
• 1:04:59
  dollar Bond. Something along those lines,
• 1:05:01
  then he calls my name and he's like, you know mr.
• 1:05:03
  Williamson, you're charged with possession of a weapon during a
• 1:05:05
  violent crime and the charge of murdering her I don't know if he
• 1:05:09
  said the first degree when he said charge of murder and he's
• 1:05:12
  like, I can't give you bond for those.
• 1:05:14
  You have to get seen by the Circuit Court when he says that,
• 1:05:17
  I sit back down and that biker Scoops, like, to the other end
• 1:05:20
  of the bench, like sitting by and talking to you.
• 1:05:23
  Like, I'm not saying that knows them.
• 1:05:26
  So they transfers back to the holding and we're cuffed up, you
• 1:05:29
  know, risk the ankle, you know, Shackled up.
• 1:05:31
  And he go he was sitting beside me, he goes and he gets his
• 1:05:34
  built-in one, blanket and pillow that they have that you should
• 1:05:37
  kind of like a mock sleeping bag.
• 1:05:39
  He gives that and ghost-like the other side and stuff.
• 1:05:42
  Yeah. So that's how that went.
• 1:05:44
  Well, I guess question for you way to while all this is going
• 1:05:47
  on and you've had, you know, and then you had the Gathering at
• 1:05:50
  the house before you went in, like, what is your wife's take
• 1:05:54
  on all this? Because not only did you guys
• 1:05:57
  get in a fight but the guy that she's been with, for a few
• 1:06:00
  months and your guys are getting back together and she's moving
• 1:06:03
  back in. But this guy's dead now and I
• 1:06:07
  mean I'm sure she understands what And because she got
• 1:06:10
  attacked also and, and there was, you know, abuse and that
• 1:06:14
  situation. But like, what what's going
• 1:06:16
  through her head? She was just as fun out over
• 1:06:20
  this whole thing as me. I mean, I think it was just, it
• 1:06:22
  was so much so fast like we didn't have time to deal with
• 1:06:27
  one thing before. Something else is just so like I
• 1:06:29
  didn't even really have time to process of.
• 1:06:31
  Wow, I've just been involved in a shooting, you know, the
• 1:06:34
  Mansion so proudly there before. All right, you're getting
• 1:06:37
  charged. All right.
• 1:06:39
  You're getting charged now, you got to get everything ready,
• 1:06:41
  right? You're going on yourself in a
• 1:06:43
  couple days, right? Then, you know, wherever they
• 1:06:45
  do, all the things that you're doing.
• 1:06:47
  It's a spent. Oh I get it.
• 1:06:48
  You didn't really have time to even start processing.
• 1:06:51
  One part of it before something else Hitchens.
• 1:06:53
  Right. Right.
• 1:06:54
  And and that was kind of where we're at.
• 1:06:56
  Obviously, you know, she's carried a lot of guilt for this.
• 1:06:58
  She blames herself and I've tried to tell her I'm like look,
• 1:07:01
  you know, people get together and break up all the time
• 1:07:04
  reconcile later. I mean, look at what Ben Affleck
• 1:07:06
  and JLo now. Yeah, just go together.
• 1:07:09
  All right, oh yeah, years later. And when they got back together,
• 1:07:12
  Alex Rodriguez, didn't go to Ben Affleck's house with a baseball.
• 1:07:16
  Try to kill him. No, I was like, you know, that
• 1:07:19
  happens all the time. I was like he just happened to
• 1:07:21
  not be one that was okay with what we're gonna suck.
• 1:07:24
  Know how about something flipped on him?
• 1:07:26
  Yeah unfortunately. Yeah.
• 1:07:29
  And I mean the whole thing was unfortunate and and like I said
• 1:07:32
  I my mind spending through all this.
• 1:07:33
  I'm sitting in jail, never been in jail before never been
• 1:07:36
  arrested and now I'm in here for nothing.
• 1:07:39
  Certainly the worst crime, but definitely one of the worst
• 1:07:41
  charges. I mean, I think that if he is
• 1:07:43
  probably going to be the worst crime, but murder obviously
• 1:07:46
  carrying, you know, I think they were trying to go for life and
• 1:07:50
  I'm waiting. We have court that Monday
• 1:07:52
  morning at 9:00, I'm in the room.
• 1:07:55
  A bunch of other guys that are waiting for court to I'm in
• 1:07:58
  street clothes at this point, all these guys are in like
• 1:08:01
  prison uniform. So they're kind of wondering why
• 1:08:03
  I'm in street clothes and all them are in the prison forms.
• 1:08:06
  And one guy was like, you know, you're the guy from came back.
• 1:08:09
  I ain't you and I was like, yeah, that's the neighborhood
• 1:08:11
  that I live in and he was like, you must be in here for he's
• 1:08:14
  like, family court. And I'm just like, yeah,
• 1:08:16
  something like that. I didn't say, I didn't say
• 1:08:19
  nothing, I was very under, right.
• 1:08:21
  So, yeah, no reason to. So, I finally get seen, we go in
• 1:08:25
  this court. They take me in there and
• 1:08:27
  obviously, you know, the states trying to say why I should stay
• 1:08:29
  in jail. My lawyers, trying to say, why
• 1:08:31
  should get out and he's like, you know, he's got a good job,
• 1:08:34
  he's had for 15 years, he's got a son, he's got a daughter.
• 1:08:36
  He's been a good upstanding member of the community.
• 1:08:38
  Never Been in trouble. They're trying to paint me as,
• 1:08:41
  you know, Charles Manson on the other side and when he gets to
• 1:08:45
  the point to where the judge is going to make a ruling, I've
• 1:08:47
  never heard this before in my life.
• 1:08:50
  She's like, okay. She's like, I've heard
• 1:08:51
  everything I need to hear. She's like, I'll make a ruling
• 1:08:53
  and let you know and banging the gavel.
• 1:08:57
  So I kind of cut to the lawyer and I'm like what the hell does
• 1:08:59
  that mean and he's like I guess that means you'll let us know
• 1:09:03
  they're already dragging me out like they got to get the next
• 1:09:05
  person in there. I'm getting drugged out and you
• 1:09:08
  know I don't know what the hell's going on my mind
• 1:09:10
  splitting is I've never heard that said before.
• 1:09:12
  I thought it was either Bond, granted or bonding right now
• 1:09:15
  we're going to go back in there. The room and think about I gotta
• 1:09:17
  let you know. Yeah so I go back they cuffed me
• 1:09:21
  up. Again I have to stay in that
• 1:09:22
  room and then you know eventually get back to the cell
• 1:09:25
  now I don't want to even overshadow.
• 1:09:27
  I kind of jumped ahead on this, but like, the walk from the
• 1:09:30
  where you're being held to the courthouse isn't ground, that
• 1:09:34
  walkway is probably the most intimidating.
• 1:09:36
  Walk way you would ever walk in your life.
• 1:09:38
  Like looks like a dungeon like you're walking into hell and
• 1:09:41
  it's just, I mean going and coming was both just it was
• 1:09:44
  mind-blowing and you know, all the worst thoughts run through
• 1:09:47
  your head. So I go back, I go back into the
• 1:09:50
  cell, I wait about an hour and then I called my wife and I'm
• 1:09:55
  like, hey, what the hell is? I know that she's like relax,
• 1:09:57
  she said you got Bond, you know, they're going to get out, she
• 1:10:01
  said, but it might not be till tomorrow because they got a
• 1:10:04
  process. All the paperwork.
• 1:10:05
  That's good news. Yeah, and I'm like, well, you
• 1:10:08
  know, if I got to do one more night, I'll do one more night,
• 1:10:10
  but I'm not least I'm getting out.
• 1:10:12
  So that was a huge relief because I do you even told me.
• 1:10:15
  Sometimes he prefers. The people sits in jail for a
• 1:10:18
  couple of months that way he can kind of sneak in there, have a
• 1:10:21
  bond hearing and get them out. And nobody's looking at it
• 1:10:23
  because my case, it's still fresh, there's no talking.
• 1:10:26
  About it on the news, right? You're still my house.
• 1:10:28
  There's no news cars at my house so he doesn't necessarily like
• 1:10:32
  doing stuff while it's fresh in the news.
• 1:10:34
  He likes to let things die down, but in my case, he said, I feel
• 1:10:37
  like we've got a good shot of getting out which he did.
• 1:10:40
  He done his job and they're still people getting out on up
• 1:10:45
  into like 8:00 at night and so I'm thinking well might get out
• 1:10:49
  of here. Well the door opens the probably
• 1:10:51
  like 10 o'clock they called my last name and I hopped down off
• 1:10:54
  that bed. I mean Ready to run.
• 1:10:57
  And I'm like, yeah, I'm here. Look, and he's like, Alright,
• 1:11:00
  we're transferring you to see pod and I'm like, whoa, whoa,
• 1:11:02
  wait a minute. I was like I'm getting out of
• 1:11:04
  here tomorrow, there's no need for all that.
• 1:11:05
  Yeah, and he's like yeah, there's just the way you come in
• 1:11:08
  man, he said, is nothing to you. He's like, once they get a
• 1:11:11
  certain number of people whoever's been here, the longest
• 1:11:13
  gets transferred to gen pop. I was like, well, shit.
• 1:11:16
  Okay, and they take me in there to give him a little orange
• 1:11:20
  jumpsuit and give you the three in one body wash conditioner
• 1:11:23
  shampoo toothbrush. Cup toilet paper.
• 1:11:27
  All the little goodies that they give you, when you go in there
• 1:11:29
  and wait and you do is, you might or might not know because
• 1:11:33
  you stayed in that world and didn't hit into the prison
• 1:11:36
  world. The, the jail is the worst that?
• 1:11:40
  Yeah, that is the very worst bottom of the wrong thing that
• 1:11:45
  you In be and, and for, you know, there's a lot of violence
• 1:11:48
  in there. There's, there's, it's
• 1:11:50
  transitory, you know, when people get to prison, they're
• 1:11:53
  still, it's not a good place, but it's different because
• 1:11:56
  people are living there there. That's because that's their
• 1:11:59
  neighborhood. And the county jail is just a
• 1:12:03
  cesspool of bad. Yeah, and that's what I heard
• 1:12:07
  that people in there were were ready to get to prison.
• 1:12:09
  They were ready to get there were going to be at there, had
• 1:12:12
  been guy recently in that same Detention Center where I That
• 1:12:16
  they've been stabbed with a mop handle.
• 1:12:17
  Yeah. Like week before that.
• 1:12:19
  So it wasn't a you know it's the safest of their yeah.
• 1:12:23
  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so they gave me they took me
• 1:12:27
  to the Pod just so happened. The guy that actually gave me my
• 1:12:31
  stuff. He asked me, he said my
• 1:12:32
  daughter's name. He's like, you're selling.
• 1:12:34
  So Dad ain't you and I'm kind of looking at him, like the hell,
• 1:12:37
  do you know that? And I'm like, yeah.
• 1:12:39
  And he's like, he said, my wife used to train your daughter from
• 1:12:42
  gymnastics. I'm like that's, whoa, yeah, hi.
• 1:12:45
  You doing, you know, I don't really know what that's kind of
• 1:12:47
  odd way to meet him, but he was like, you know, don't worry,
• 1:12:51
  he's like, see pods pretty good. He's like, those guys are, you
• 1:12:54
  know, pretty laid back in there? He's like, you'll be fine.
• 1:12:56
  You get out tomorrow and so I go in at this point is probably
• 1:13:00
  11:30 ish and most everybody's kind of just chilling in their
• 1:13:04
  bunks. Couple of people playing chess,
• 1:13:07
  couple people read and couple people.
• 1:13:08
  Listen to music wasn't exactly like the worst case environment
• 1:13:13
  that you would want to walk it too but still you know you're in
• 1:13:15
  there. Soon, you're on guard and
• 1:13:19
  obviously not a bottom bunk open, as I'm sure you're
• 1:13:21
  probably aware of. Those are all taken First Act
• 1:13:23
  lie. I happened to see a guy that I
• 1:13:25
  kind of did talk a little bit with in that holding room and I
• 1:13:29
  asked him if he cared if I got up on top of him.
• 1:13:31
  The, you know, the bunk on top of him.
• 1:13:33
  He said no, that was fine. So I got up there one of my
• 1:13:36
  guests the, if they would call them, trustees come up to me and
• 1:13:40
  asked me if I wanted a job. And I'm like, no.
• 1:13:43
  I was like I'm getting out of here tomorrow, right?
• 1:13:45
  Yeah. He's like, yeah, well, I won't
• 1:13:46
  worry about giving you a job. So we come time to like there he
• 1:13:50
  was, he asked me, he said, well, you know how to work the shower,
• 1:13:52
  right. I guess these guys assumed I'd
• 1:13:54
  been in there before I am heavily tattooed.
• 1:13:58
  I've got he's almost a little too far.
• 1:14:00
  Okay. They thought I looked the part,
• 1:14:02
  you know, they was like, oh yeah.
• 1:14:03
  He's a, he's like, you know, how to work the shower.
• 1:14:05
  Right? And I'm like, oh yeah.
• 1:14:07
  Yeah. I know how didn't have a clue
• 1:14:08
  what he's talking about. Not a fuck and I go in there to
• 1:14:12
  take a shower. Basically, what it is is I'm
• 1:14:14
  assuming this is like this and I'll prisons or jails or
• 1:14:16
  whatever but you press the Hang in and then it automatically
• 1:14:20
  starts coming back ever lock. Yeah, you get water pressure for
• 1:14:24
  like 10 seconds, right? Whatever they had rigged up with
• 1:14:27
  this piece of plastic you could Jam in there and keep it on.
• 1:14:30
  Okay, figured out how to work it.
• 1:14:32
  Work it. So I had to take showers and ten
• 1:14:35
  second increments, you know, wash body part for time.
• 1:14:38
  I pushed into the lever right. Luckily nobody else was in there
• 1:14:41
  and they were obviously knew I didn't know what I was doing you
• 1:14:44
  know I got showered got out and I'm like, alright, I just got to
• 1:14:47
  do one more night and get out of Here.
• 1:14:49
  And, for the most part, I mean, everything went like normal.
• 1:14:51
  The, when I got out, the next morning, people were flocking to
• 1:14:55
  get everything. They give me.
• 1:14:57
  Hey, can I have your cupcake? And I have your toothbrush?
• 1:14:59
  Can I have your toilet paper? I'm just giving.
• 1:15:01
  I'm like y'all have had it. I don't give a shit.
• 1:15:03
  What, please I might. Yeah.
• 1:15:05
  But it just kind of puts it in perspective of what certain
• 1:15:08
  things mean that most people in the freedom World take for
• 1:15:11
  granted for sure. And so I get home again still
• 1:15:15
  trying to process. Now, I've been locked up now, I
• 1:15:18
  just got bombed. I'm at the time was still
• 1:15:22
  employed with new course on my guard.
• 1:15:23
  Let me call them, make sure everything's good.
• 1:15:25
  So I called him I'm like, hey I'm out of jail.
• 1:15:27
  I don't know what y'all want me to do and he's like, come in
• 1:15:29
  tomorrow and let's talk. So I go to work and they fired
• 1:15:35
  me. Soon as I walked in and he's
• 1:15:37
  like, hey, go over to the Jim's office when they said that I
• 1:15:40
  knew what was about to happen and he's like, you know, wait
• 1:15:43
  unfortunately for these these charges.
• 1:15:46
  He's are we gonna let you go? And I'm not but you just said
• 1:15:48
  it. This is charges.
• 1:15:49
  I was like I said, I didn't do anything wrong.
• 1:15:52
  Yeah, he's like, well, I sincerely hope that's what
• 1:15:54
  happens for you. He said, but unfortunately, so
• 1:15:56
  we gotta let you go. We can't keep you here.
• 1:15:59
  And so now again, another Sucker Punch.
• 1:16:02
  I'm getting you know, fired and so I'm leaving and I'm like ah
• 1:16:05
  Right? Well, I got apply for food
• 1:16:07
  stamps, Medicare everything. You can try to get I apply for
• 1:16:11
  unemployment. They block my unemployment.
• 1:16:13
  They said because I breached new cores off work conduct policy.
• 1:16:17
  They didn't even give me unemployment.
• 1:16:19
  Wow. Yeah.
• 1:16:21
  So I'd give 15 almost 15 years of my life to this company and
• 1:16:26
  they didn't even allow me to get unemployment.
• 1:16:28
  So that adds another layer to everything.
• 1:16:31
  Now, I'm trying to figure out a job.
• 1:16:34
  The only silver lining That was when they fired me.
• 1:16:37
  They were that actually enabled me to get into my 401k.
• 1:16:41
  Now at the time I probably had about 170 Grand in there.
• 1:16:45
  The lawyer itself was 50 Grand and take the case, daddy wants
• 1:16:49
  another 15, to start the ball rolling on investigations
• 1:16:53
  interviews. This, that, and the other, the
• 1:16:55
  bond was 100,000 for the murder charge 50,000 for the weapons
• 1:17:00
  charge, which was the lowest you could go for both.
• 1:17:03
  So typically it was 15 grand to get out.
• 1:17:06
  The lawyer use the sink bondsman that he knew, so they cut us a
• 1:17:10
  little bit better of a deal. So I think it was like 13,000 to
• 1:17:12
  get me out of jail. Now, my family already knew I
• 1:17:15
  was going in. They had the money up to get me
• 1:17:17
  out, but once I got fired and I drew out my 401k, I paid
• 1:17:22
  everybody back. I paid the lawyer in full.
• 1:17:24
  I'm just like, look, here's the fifth.
• 1:17:26
  I want you to do a good job. Yeah.
• 1:17:28
  Get don't think I'm, you know, doing a ten dollar a week,
• 1:17:31
  payment plan here, you have that it go do what you got to do and,
• 1:17:35
  you know, pay it up. Little bit, I had left paid off
• 1:17:37
  a credit card. I think I'm pinning to finish
• 1:17:39
  paying off the car that I had just because I didn't know how
• 1:17:41
  long I was going to be out of work and you know, then the then
• 1:17:44
  the next mode is I can't even really worry about what's going
• 1:17:47
  on. I got to worry about a job.
• 1:17:49
  Luckily I did find a job at a sign company.
• 1:17:53
  First I'd interviewed at a place where you would weld up like
• 1:17:56
  trash containers like once the metal would get been up and and
• 1:18:00
  deteriorate you would cut out old section.
• 1:18:02
  Well, the new section in they got the job, I got the The job
• 1:18:06
  may all good job Wade, did they know about you or was it just
• 1:18:09
  you that you just got the job. It was just so fast.
• 1:18:12
  They didn't they didn't question it.
• 1:18:14
  Let's see the container shop place when they offered me the
• 1:18:18
  job there. I told him I was I look through
• 1:18:20
  what just happened to me, and he's like, look, I took a little
• 1:18:23
  criminal justice in college. He's that doesn't sound like you
• 1:18:25
  did anything wrong to me said, but you were up front, you're
• 1:18:28
  honest, I'm good. Okay.
• 1:18:30
  Well it run through corporate and Arizona corporate wasn't
• 1:18:33
  good with it. So they were set gobbo.
• 1:18:36
  So right, then I'm already in that boat of art.
• 1:18:39
  Well, if I tell people, I got to record, this is probably what's
• 1:18:41
  going to keep at me, sir. So the thine company that hired
• 1:18:45
  me at the time I never told him about he just assumed and I kind
• 1:18:50
  of was a great ingredients. He says, so what led you to
• 1:18:53
  leave new car? I said, well, I said it kind of
• 1:18:55
  got tired of the shift work. You know, it was rotating
• 1:18:58
  shifts, per shift, third shift. I said wanted to have something
• 1:19:01
  a little bit more stable with, you know, better hours, which
• 1:19:03
  wasn't a lot, right? Did I was tired At third shift.
• 1:19:06
  Should I just didn't get to tell him the exact and it was so
• 1:19:10
  close in succession? I mean, you're talking a week
• 1:19:13
  and a half, maybe it's inside left new course.
• 1:19:15
  So it didn't look like there was a huge gap in the unemployment
• 1:19:18
  and they hired me everything was going great, two months in.
• 1:19:24
  They come to me and they said, hey, we got a big contract at
• 1:19:26
  your old job like we're at it's a new core.
• 1:19:31
  Okay, and he said, yeah, we're putting in a big LED board out
• 1:19:35
  there for them and they're putting it in at the front gate.
• 1:19:37
  I was there all great and I knew I wouldn't have to go to do the
• 1:19:41
  install, but I had a feeling somebody would talk to somebody
• 1:19:44
  that would talk to somebody and sure enough they tell him, yeah,
• 1:19:47
  we got a guy that works for us used to work.
• 1:19:49
  I hear over the name wait. Oh I remember him.
• 1:19:52
  How did everything go with that case?
• 1:19:53
  He was fighting what case? Oh, he got charged with murder.
• 1:19:57
  Nobody there knew, right. And this kind of plays into the
• 1:20:00
  fact of you're not. Ago.
• 1:20:01
  You called me two different names as we've been here.
• 1:20:04
  Chip it away. Wade, Williamson is my
• 1:20:06
  government name. Chip was a nickname that I got
• 1:20:09
  early on. In school, all my annual said
• 1:20:12
  ship, my Facebook social media is that you so when people
• 1:20:16
  search Wade, Williamson they would pull up.
• 1:20:19
  Obviously not so flattering mug shot and some stories.
• 1:20:23
  But if they search chip Williams, and they're going to
• 1:20:25
  get me in there, not going to see, none of that.
• 1:20:26
  Yeah. So, I never changed my name to
• 1:20:29
  Wade Williams to, I left it as chip.
• 1:20:31
  For that specific reason. And I introduced myself to
• 1:20:34
  everybody is Chip because that's what everybody does.
• 1:20:36
  Now you me, somebody new comes on the job you Facebook.
• 1:20:39
  I'm right off the bat. I didn't meet on Facebook and
• 1:20:42
  Wade, Williams. Did you like you're gonna pull
• 1:20:44
  up some bad stuff? So until then everything was
• 1:20:47
  good. Um, once I knew people found out
• 1:20:51
  it began to feel like an ulcer that was just growing because I
• 1:20:54
  knew they would never send me on jobs that went to like Air Force
• 1:20:59
  bases because you had to have clean Backgrounds to go.
• 1:21:02
  They would never send me on those jobs that they would send
• 1:21:04
  me on everything else. So I knew they knew, but they
• 1:21:08
  never said anything. And I think probably enough time
• 1:21:10
  had passed. They knew I was a good dude, I
• 1:21:12
  showed up to work. I didn't cause any problems you
• 1:21:15
  know but it was still just uneasy because they didn't know
• 1:21:18
  and I work with them straight up until covid-19.
• 1:21:21
  You released me. But in the middle of that, the
• 1:21:25
  only court date that we had involved in this whole thing I
• 1:21:29
  got arrested, I got Bond. We had a preliminary hearing in
• 1:21:32
  June, we go to the policemen are hearing and the officer, the
• 1:21:38
  detective lies about five times on the stand under oath, some of
• 1:21:43
  these lies are miniscule. Something to the effect of, you
• 1:21:46
  know, the steroids got brought up and she so we collected one
• 1:21:49
  vial of steroids from the other residence.
• 1:21:52
  Well, she wrote out a paper saying that she collected two
• 1:21:54
  vials of steroids from the house.
• 1:21:56
  So she contradicted her own self on a paper that she wrote and
• 1:21:59
  filled out on the stand. The judge almost tossed it.
• 1:22:04
  At the end of it. He said, you know, while I do
• 1:22:06
  not see a lot here, this will be tough for the state.
• 1:22:08
  I'm going to bind it to trial, okay?
• 1:22:10
  So that meant we had in my mind, I pulled him in, we're going to
• 1:22:13
  trial what my lawyer said. He said, well, what we're going
• 1:22:16
  to do is we're going to file an immunity hearing based on Castle
• 1:22:19
  Law and self-defense, so that was the next step.
• 1:22:23
  Well, as I said covid hit that put a damper on everything in
• 1:22:27
  the court, everything done. Yes, slowed, everything down, He
• 1:22:31
  told the solicitor who's equivalent of The Da, that's our
• 1:22:36
  da is down here in South Carolina that he didn't want
• 1:22:40
  anything Zoom Skype or nothing like that.
• 1:22:42
  He was going to do in person in personal and he was like he said
• 1:22:46
  if you got a good job or decent job, you know, don't worry, just
• 1:22:49
  let it ride. He's like the longer it goes.
• 1:22:51
  Sometimes that works out for the better.
• 1:22:53
  So that was what we were doing the whole time, we were waiting
• 1:22:55
  and covid, hit that pushed it back even farther, and we never
• 1:22:59
  went back to a Courtney. Well, you know.
• 1:23:05
  We chip I just can't imagine like what you've got this huge
• 1:23:11
  gigantic gorilla sitting on your back for how many years it was
• 1:23:16
  like four and a half by the time it was all M.
• 1:23:19
  You waking up with it. Going to bed with it.
• 1:23:21
  Yeah. Oh you can't you can't help but
• 1:23:23
  to and on top of that, like I said, not only that.
• 1:23:26
  I've got to worry about. You know, how is this affecting
• 1:23:28
  my kids? Yeah, and not long after that
• 1:23:31
  after it first happened, my daughter graduated high school.
• 1:23:35
  So I'm I got permission to go to the graduation but that was it.
• 1:23:39
  I couldn't go out to dinner. I couldn't do anything after
• 1:23:41
  that, go to graduation come home.
• 1:23:44
  I'm sitting there watching her walk across the stage and like,
• 1:23:46
  I can't even be as happy as I want to be because I'm thinking
• 1:23:50
  damn, am I going to see my son walk across the stage or my
• 1:23:53
  Barbie the last time? Yeah, you can't even enjoy one
• 1:23:56
  little thing without immediately thinking this if elected.
• 1:24:01
  Hey, is this the last? You know, yeah, super all, I get
• 1:24:04
  to watch. At home.
• 1:24:05
  Is this black anything, whatever the case it don't matter.
• 1:24:07
  How big or small you can enjoy it because it's immediately
• 1:24:11
  followed by that group. And feeling of this is this the
• 1:24:14
  last time I get to enjoy this. So you got that compound and now
• 1:24:18
  with I know my job knows that I have this charge that I didn't
• 1:24:21
  disclose to him wondering, if that's going to come into play.
• 1:24:27
  So in the middle of all this, I decided to add a little bit more
• 1:24:30
  to my plate and I started a podcast because I started
• 1:24:35
  researching I'm like, you know, innocent people can't really go
• 1:24:38
  to prison this evening or was I wrong.
• 1:24:42
  Yeah, that's really kind of what started the ball rolling.
• 1:24:46
  I started, researching wrongful, conviction podcast, I looked
• 1:24:49
  into the Central Park five, I looked into a bunch of different
• 1:24:52
  cases that kind of foothold me into the True Crimes.
• 1:24:56
  Honor and that was like, you know what, I kind of enjoy
• 1:24:59
  listening to this. I want to maybe do one and the
• 1:25:02
  more I got to look and I think everybody in America have that
• 1:25:05
  idea and that me because there was a lot of crimes right
• 1:25:10
  podcast out there worldwide and so I was like, you know, I got
• 1:25:14
  to do something to be a little different for people to get you
• 1:25:17
  know to click on my show. Plus the do a good True Crime
• 1:25:20
  podcast that takes work that takes money, you file for
• 1:25:23
  information, not a resort, you gotta you.
• 1:25:26
  Gotta get a lot of research. You got to get cases sometimes a
• 1:25:29
  nobody's heard about. There's only so many times
• 1:25:31
  people want to listen to, you know, Son of Sam, or Ted Bundy
• 1:25:35
  for it gets kind of mundane and redundant right?
• 1:25:37
  And you got to figure out cases, nobody's heard of which makes it
• 1:25:40
  harder to get information. So I was like, I will call it
• 1:25:43
  crime and entertainment, put that little entertainment twist
• 1:25:46
  in there and that will kind of open the door for me to talk to
• 1:25:48
  whoever I want, you know, as we kind of spoke in the beginning
• 1:25:52
  earlier, I've had actors sometimes more and Tommy Chong
• 1:25:56
  on the I've had guys from Sopranos and the wire on the
• 1:26:01
  show. I've had no wrestlers shows all
• 1:26:04
  great. Actives.
• 1:26:05
  Yeah. Oh yeah, great shows.
• 1:26:07
  And I had, you know, wrestler on the show I've had authors on the
• 1:26:10
  show, I've had former drug smugglers on the show, I've had
• 1:26:14
  former cops undercover ATF agents, former bikers.
• 1:26:18
  Pornstars. I mean, you know, you name it.
• 1:26:20
  They've been a crime and entertainment.
• 1:26:23
  Yeah, all right, man. I'm time.
• 1:26:25
  They do a little both. Sam has one or the other, right?
• 1:26:28
  Exactly. And that was really to tell you
• 1:26:30
  the truth. It was really an outlet, I
• 1:26:32
  better was an escape. It was, I was able to talk to
• 1:26:36
  him a very social person. I like to talk, I like to
• 1:26:39
  conversate. So that's the equivalent of me.
• 1:26:42
  Being able to go to the bar, just strike up a conversation
• 1:26:44
  with the guy next to me. I'm just able to do it on a
• 1:26:47
  podcast and originally it was just me and my buddy.
• 1:26:51
  We were covering a few things here and there and slowly.
• 1:26:54
  But surely I started getting interviews and then it kind of
• 1:26:57
  snowballed and now the, but he doesn't do it with me anymore.
• 1:26:59
  He just done it for me as a favor till I got started.
• 1:27:02
  He said, I knew you would get to the point where you didn't need
• 1:27:04
  me. So I just helped And now it's I
• 1:27:07
  mean it's nothing but interviews.
• 1:27:09
  Yeah. As that guy rolling, I made some
• 1:27:12
  contacts with some guy that was involved with the Gambino's out
• 1:27:17
  of New York. He was in tight with a lot of
• 1:27:19
  guys from the movie Goodfellas and do John Gotti personally.
• 1:27:23
  John Gotti bought him a Cadillac to try to help him get on his
• 1:27:26
  feet. And he came on the show and I
• 1:27:29
  kind of tossed around some ideas that I had some things I wanted
• 1:27:33
  to do and he's like, you know, see if You can or he's like, you
• 1:27:36
  know, come up to New York. He's like, you can he's like
• 1:27:38
  come to New York will go spend some stuff and a studio.
• 1:27:42
  Well, I'm on house arrest, ya can't go Haley worst thing,
• 1:27:44
  right? Yeah, they don't they, they
• 1:27:46
  frown on that if you just jump State and I had to ask for
• 1:27:50
  permission to go and I was like, look, I was like you tell them.
• 1:27:53
  This is not a BS excuse to go out of state.
• 1:27:57
  I was like I've got a podcast, I've got a YouTube channel.
• 1:28:00
  I'm monetized is some legit stream of income might not get
• 1:28:04
  that much. But it is a business and, you
• 1:28:06
  know, I've got this opportunity. So by this time the solicitor
• 1:28:10
  has changed a couple times and the solicitor was in, you know,
• 1:28:14
  charges this time. He's like, yeah, I don't see why
• 1:28:16
  not let him go. So a part of that in my mind is,
• 1:28:19
  like, how worried can they really be just letting the
• 1:28:22
  travel everywhere? Because I don't have an anklet
• 1:28:25
  on, right? Like, I didn't help monitor.
• 1:28:27
  I never checked in with my bondsman.
• 1:28:29
  They never told me to. Yeah.
• 1:28:30
  When I went out of state, I had to tell them when I was leaving
• 1:28:33
  and check in when I got back. It's about phone call.
• 1:28:36
  But that was it, I think they knew I was paying all that money
• 1:28:38
  in it Lori. I wasn't gonna take off true.
• 1:28:40
  But plus, he took my whole 401K. I don't have any money to take
• 1:28:43
  off. Exactly.
• 1:28:44
  You are good as be skipping countries.
• 1:28:47
  Yeah, so I go to New York, you know, podcast goes good.
• 1:28:50
  We do. Some good shows.
• 1:28:52
  They invite me back a couple of months later.
• 1:28:55
  This was in July of last year, August end of August and bite me
• 1:29:00
  back. So we got to ask for permission
• 1:29:02
  again whole Spiel. And you know the lawyer this
• 1:29:06
  time he's like look you know this is going on five years.
• 1:29:08
  He said y'all held this man's life up for a long time.
• 1:29:11
  He said I don't typically like to tip my hand.
• 1:29:14
  He said but I'm going to make a deal with you.
• 1:29:16
  He said I'll show you everything that we have.
• 1:29:19
  He said I'll give you everything we got and he said I believe
• 1:29:23
  that it'll be so damn powerful that you will not even really
• 1:29:27
  want to try to take this any further, strong move.
• 1:29:30
  Yeah. And that's You say he said, this
• 1:29:32
  is a ballsy move to do step, but I think we have enough of a case
• 1:29:36
  to pull it off. So, they gave me permission to
• 1:29:39
  go to New York. Now, these guys don't have a
• 1:29:41
  clue. None of these people in New
• 1:29:42
  York. Have I've never told anybody
• 1:29:43
  about it at this. It's all stayed quiet.
• 1:29:46
  Never mentioned it on my show. None of my guests, knew it,
• 1:29:49
  nobody knew real street cred. Yeah.
• 1:29:52
  And, and I never mentioned and I am I didn't want people to think
• 1:29:56
  I was using that as a springboard.
• 1:29:57
  All right. I knew you would.
• 1:29:59
  I knew there would become a time like now, Underwear.
• 1:30:01
  I can't talk about it, right? Use it as a message for people
• 1:30:04
  that it can happen. Yeah.
• 1:30:05
  But I didn't want to do it before obviously while I was
• 1:30:07
  still going on. Exactly.
• 1:30:09
  I go to New York or second time, everything goes good in the
• 1:30:13
  middle of all that we had flew out.
• 1:30:15
  This forensics guy from New York and he basically done.
• 1:30:19
  If you watched any CSI show where they do the the laser
• 1:30:22
  Bullet Pass, you know, telling you we're standing at all this,
• 1:30:26
  he done that from the wall, back to the refrigerator, back to the
• 1:30:30
  corner. Which put me in the corner of
• 1:30:33
  fact that I found out way too late years later.
• 1:30:36
  I never even knew they found the shell casing in the sink.
• 1:30:39
  Okay, so that even more prove, my point of where I was
• 1:30:43
  standing. I'm in the corner the think to
• 1:30:45
  my right, is those to my left refrigerators right across from
• 1:30:48
  me, if you shoot a gun, everybody knows the projectiles.
• 1:30:52
  Go up and back. No, straight out the gun to the
• 1:30:56
  back. It landed in the sink.
• 1:30:58
  I had no idea of anything so he Put together a whole PowerPoint
• 1:31:02
  their reasons for charging me was they said, he said there was
• 1:31:06
  a little, there was a struggle before the shooting, we didn't
• 1:31:09
  see signs of a struggle. He took the first arriving
• 1:31:11
  officers body, cam footage, and he zeroed in on shot glass.
• 1:31:14
  That was knocked over on the floor.
• 1:31:16
  He zeroed in on our another shot glass.
• 1:31:18
  There was knocked over on the counter, plus another like
• 1:31:21
  Manhattan rocks, glass. That was knocked over a pretty
• 1:31:23
  heavy glass. Not know, you know, Solo Cup.
• 1:31:26
  It was a glass. He's like, Alright, well, that
• 1:31:29
  right there is proof of a struggle, so we don't really
• 1:31:30
  know where you're getting. That there was no struggle and
• 1:31:33
  blood spatter was a big deal. They said, you know, this guy
• 1:31:36
  was wearing a white long sleeve shirt.
• 1:31:38
  He shot a guy, supposedly a close-range yet, he's not got
• 1:31:41
  any blood on. I never seen blood the entire
• 1:31:44
  time, right. When I lifted up his shirt, I
• 1:31:47
  had to look to find the holes because they were very, very
• 1:31:50
  small look like the tip of an eraser off of a number two
• 1:31:53
  pencil, I never seen blood. The 911.
• 1:31:56
  Operator, told me to go get it. Now, place it over the wounds.
• 1:31:59
  I did that, that's where I left it.
• 1:32:02
  And even the towel didn't really have a lot of blood on and they
• 1:32:05
  was like, well, you know, he said he tried to do life-saving
• 1:32:08
  measures but there's no evidence to that.
• 1:32:10
  I might, well, I can tell you, he didn't go get that towel and
• 1:32:13
  put it on his chest. Like I was the only other person
• 1:32:15
  in the house. How the hell?
• 1:32:16
  You think that Tower got there? Yeah, it was just blowing holes
• 1:32:20
  in every reasoning. The the full metal jacket
• 1:32:23
  rounds, because we were so close in proximity were through and
• 1:32:26
  through He happened to be wearing three shirts so he had
• 1:32:30
  on like a t-shirt, a longer shirt over that and then like a
• 1:32:35
  long-sleeve wicking shirt, like a Under Armour type shirt over
• 1:32:39
  all that. So yeah, I don't three layers
• 1:32:40
  are closed so you're not going to get that transfer out.
• 1:32:44
  One, two, three, it's closed. You don't even really get that
• 1:32:47
  sometimes. If there's no clothes like it
• 1:32:48
  all depends on the caliber of bullet, a bunch of different
• 1:32:51
  factors. So the fact that was none did
• 1:32:54
  not mean that we were further apart.
• 1:32:57
  And the fact that they said that really hurt them because they
• 1:33:01
  said, you know, we believe there was a greater distance.
• 1:33:03
  Well, if you put him further away, those bullets, don't have
• 1:33:07
  time to separate their succession.
• 1:33:10
  They would be right beside each other on that refrigerator.
• 1:33:13
  He was so far close to me that once they went through, they had
• 1:33:17
  time to go apart. So one hits the right side.
• 1:33:21
  Refrigerator the other hits, a pack of water, sitting
• 1:33:23
  completely beside. The refrigerator had hit further
• 1:33:27
  back. They tried to say he was, they
• 1:33:29
  wouldn't have had time to do that.
• 1:33:31
  They would have hit almost side by side.
• 1:33:33
  Yeah. So they tried to paint a picture
• 1:33:36
  that really screwed themselves and so we gave him that whole
• 1:33:43
  PowerPoint that the guy put together.
• 1:33:46
  He actually brought them to the house, the solicitor.
• 1:33:49
  His number two, I think a CSI, got the whole scene Walk, the
• 1:33:54
  whole thing, we put him right there.
• 1:33:55
  And when you do that, it really puts things.
• 1:33:57
  Going into perspective, see this kitchen is not very big.
• 1:34:01
  The guy I think a little above six foot so there's only so much
• 1:34:05
  of an area. He has to be laying there and
• 1:34:07
  when where he lay and you showed him pictures of where it was
• 1:34:10
  laying. I was like all right you stand
• 1:34:11
  him up, he's right in front of me.
• 1:34:14
  Autopsy report shows entry wounds higher Exit, Wounds
• 1:34:18
  lower. How do you get that?
• 1:34:20
  You get that of somebody's crouched over coming at you in
• 1:34:23
  an attack mode. That's how you get a higher
• 1:34:25
  entry in the lower exit. So Everything was there and you
• 1:34:29
  know you could tell they were taking it in.
• 1:34:31
  You could tell that they were being receptive to it and they
• 1:34:34
  left. This was probably like, you
• 1:34:36
  know, mid-september ever heard of it.
• 1:34:39
  Might have been August, am not a student in August, never heard
• 1:34:42
  anything through September ever heard anything, you know,
• 1:34:45
  through the beginning of October.
• 1:34:47
  And finally, I'm at work one day.
• 1:34:51
  Sick. I had the flu, I was sick as a
• 1:34:53
  dog and my phone rung up. I see my lawyer.
• 1:34:57
  So I can't answer the phone and he's like a weight.
• 1:35:00
  Is Andy Savage, I was there. What's going on, man?
• 1:35:03
  He said I just called to see what it was like to talk to a
• 1:35:06
  free man. Wow, I just I'm telling you I
• 1:35:09
  broke down in tears, man. It was it bad finally find?
• 1:35:13
  I'm like you serious. And he's like, I'm serious.
• 1:35:15
  He's like case dismissed, he's like, your good name is back.
• 1:35:19
  He's like, will work on getting In your expungement done.
• 1:35:21
  That way, everything's off your record.
• 1:35:23
  He's like, you're free to come. Get your weapons.
• 1:35:25
  I had a lot of other guns that due to my Bachmann.
• 1:35:28
  Take not kidding. I couldn't have them.
• 1:35:30
  So I gave him the him and he kept him in his office and he's
• 1:35:34
  like I can come up here and get your guns whenever you're ready.
• 1:35:36
  He's like everything's done brother.
• 1:35:37
  Congratulations shit, man, I had tell you that just doesn't
• 1:35:40
  happen that often but just don't, you know, right?
• 1:35:44
  You'd mentioned I was listening to your interview with Cox and
• 1:35:49
  he was you were talking Rest Faria.
• 1:35:51
  And I had him on the show and actually had his attorney on the
• 1:35:55
  show to Jewel Swartz. And, you know, that situation, I
• 1:35:59
  think he served three years, and the whole thing was was wrong, I
• 1:36:04
  mean, from the beginning was wrong and your story, the reason
• 1:36:09
  why I think your story so fascinating is that I maybe it
• 1:36:12
  is because, you know, having an attorney that, but I think
• 1:36:16
  there's still really there's decent and really good attorneys
• 1:36:19
  that aren't able to Get through that maze but but you were able
• 1:36:24
  to get through the Maze and that's just doesn't happen very
• 1:36:26
  often. What and one thing to I think
• 1:36:29
  that that helped was in Russ's case.
• 1:36:32
  Obviously someone killed his wife in very bad timing, he
• 1:36:37
  happened to be the first one. Homes on the anybody listen to
• 1:36:40
  The True Crime podcast, the significant others usually
• 1:36:43
  always one of the first people looked at and hit situation, it
• 1:36:47
  made it worse because you know, You just happened to come right
• 1:36:51
  after this whole thing took place.
• 1:36:53
  But they still should have been able to when I heard I've
• 1:36:56
  actually interviewed rest myself.
• 1:36:57
  Yeah, when they got to the point to where like you know, kill
• 1:37:01
  them for insurance, he's like, why would I need a killer for
• 1:37:03
  insurance? Like she's got stage-four
• 1:37:05
  cancer. Yeah she's dying of cancer,
• 1:37:08
  right? Yeah, you're talking months,
• 1:37:10
  left and aspect. And if you do decide to, I guess
• 1:37:13
  the term would be like, mercy, kill somebody.
• 1:37:15
  This doesn't sound like a mercy kill that.
• 1:37:17
  What happened is? Why it didn't I?
• 1:37:19
  The other thing? That didn't match up with Russ
• 1:37:21
  was, is it? He had been in a game night deal
• 1:37:23
  and all the guys said that he was there and there was no way
• 1:37:26
  that he could have done it when they said he did it.
• 1:37:27
  And then he also went through a drive through the whole thing
• 1:37:30
  was so wrong and they all simple it just can't go nowhere near
• 1:37:35
  there. Those are the types of cases,
• 1:37:39
  man that I've really tried to sense.
• 1:37:41
  My stuff has been over to bring to light because people do not
• 1:37:45
  realize how easy it can happen to him how quick things.
• 1:37:50
  Change. Russ had no idea this was going
• 1:37:53
  on. Like you said, he'd been in a
• 1:37:54
  basketball game. He stopped fast food.
• 1:37:56
  He gets home finds us. And the next thing you know,
• 1:37:58
  he's going to jail. Yeah.
• 1:38:00
  And and was in for three years. I mean, and he could have been
• 1:38:03
  in for life and then, you know, he gets out and she tries to
• 1:38:08
  frame him again. Yeah.
• 1:38:10
  Now, she's, you know, now she's in for life.
• 1:38:12
  But why to do I it's a fascinating story chip on your
• 1:38:17
  whole thing. I mean, I was listening to it.
• 1:38:20
  So I went walk the dogs last night and I was still listening
• 1:38:23
  to it because, you know, you never, you never signed up for
• 1:38:29
  that. And now you walk through that
• 1:38:31
  whole world and you see that other side of the world and a
• 1:38:34
  lot of cases to Jep is you have a situation where somebody like
• 1:38:40
  yourself will take a plea and it take like manslaughter or
• 1:38:44
  something so that you know they say hey you're good to go, you
• 1:38:46
  know, life without parole, you're looking at 25 30 years
• 1:38:51
  and somebody will say, well, it's give me something else.
• 1:38:53
  I will give you know 10 or 15 years if you take this this play
• 1:38:56
  and that you see a lot of that because people get scared and
• 1:39:01
  they don't and you luckily you didn't have to take that second
• 1:39:06
  step to have to go before the court that there Sanity put back
• 1:39:10
  into it and luckily, you had a new attorney that was looking at
• 1:39:13
  it and saying, wait a minute, this doesn't even make sense.
• 1:39:16
  This is all this stuff stacked up here, what are we going to
• 1:39:20
  say? And obviously, my feelings
• 1:39:22
  towards the law enforcement to put all this into motion aren't
• 1:39:25
  necessarily greatest. But I shout that solicitor out
• 1:39:28
  for looking at, it was a nuisance.
• 1:39:30
  That's the it was yeah. It was a huge deal.
• 1:39:33
  It was a gamble because he's new.
• 1:39:35
  Yeah. And we're just thinking, it's a
• 1:39:36
  stepping stone and they'll take and and Prosecute any way just
• 1:39:41
  to see if it can happen. And yeah, just that he would
• 1:39:44
  sometimes, just to save face. Well, you know, hey, spent all
• 1:39:47
  this time, all this money. Yeah.
• 1:39:49
  In his case he could have been like, well, you know, we tried,
• 1:39:51
  but I done the best I could with what I had, this wasn't even, my
• 1:39:54
  man exactly. That could have been his
• 1:39:56
  Outlook, but it wasn't. And he looked at it from a
• 1:39:58
  proper set of eyes and man, I shout that dude out if I see him
• 1:40:01
  in the street or whatever he drinks, I got a question, I got
• 1:40:07
  a question for you chip because, you know, After going through
• 1:40:10
  because you lived a pretty normal life up to this point,
• 1:40:13
  you know. Yeah, you know, the, yeah, you
• 1:40:15
  had some stuff happen and then kind of went through some
• 1:40:18
  depression stuff in the wife stuff.
• 1:40:19
  But going through the Journey that you've went through, what
• 1:40:22
  do you think your biggest takeaway through all this to
• 1:40:25
  impart to the listeners out there?
• 1:40:28
  My biggest takeaway is, you know, you really got even though
• 1:40:32
  life might not necessarily be the way you want it at one
• 1:40:36
  particular time. I think, I think everybody
• 1:40:39
  regardless of where they're at in life, always desires a little
• 1:40:41
  bit more, maybe wishes, one thing was different but you
• 1:40:44
  really have to appreciate life. You know, why you have it?
• 1:40:47
  Because in the blink of an eye, I can be taken away or it can be
• 1:40:51
  changed and Turns Upside Down, you know, that night there was
• 1:40:54
  two choices either he would have been committed to his word and
• 1:40:57
  he Killed me. Which after that time, he could
• 1:40:59
  have went and then subsequently killed my wife.
• 1:41:02
  Yep. My work.
• 1:41:04
  My son then himself. Or the way it happened.
• 1:41:08
  Turns out. It was the other way around and
• 1:41:10
  I, you know, defending myself and ultimately he lost his life
• 1:41:14
  but then it turned my world upside down.
• 1:41:16
  So it's like, is there really a win, right?
• 1:41:18
  And that, you know, I mean, it took away was a big toll on my
• 1:41:21
  family was a big toll on me, mentally, physically
• 1:41:24
  emotionally. And, you know, one thing that
• 1:41:27
  I've learned You know, you got to appreciate life as you have
• 1:41:30
  it. No, it might renew what the
• 1:41:32
  president, the Here. And Now great, I had to Sir
• 1:41:35
  paying jobs because obviously I've got a pending murder charge
• 1:41:39
  on my record. That doesn't fare too.
• 1:41:40
  Well in the interview process, they're looking through their,
• 1:41:44
  you know, you done this, this all when you put murder.
• 1:41:47
  Well, we'll get back to you. Yeah.
• 1:41:50
  So you've got to take lesser paying jobs so again you know
• 1:41:54
  things weren't where I wanted them.
• 1:41:56
  Yeah. But at this time, you got it.
• 1:41:58
  Look at the good to like you said I was not in prison about a
• 1:42:00
  lot of people in my position. You know.
• 1:42:02
  Go to prison. If you don't have them for a
• 1:42:04
  good lawyer, you're stuck with a public defender.
• 1:42:06
  Yeah, they're basically nothing but glorified plea, bargain or
• 1:42:10
  so they try to go that is their job.
• 1:42:13
  Yeah you're facing 15 years man. If you just did take this plea
• 1:42:17
  and you know Don King Haver, you be out Nate, you know you have a
• 1:42:20
  life left and you know if not you could go for double that.
• 1:42:24
  So that's what they do. Yeah.
• 1:42:25
  And you know there's no doubt in my mind That had I not had
• 1:42:29
  access to that because I'm not a rich man by any mean, if I
• 1:42:32
  hadn't had that 401k it, my job to give me that point to dip
• 1:42:36
  into the pay. This guy, you know, I'm very
• 1:42:38
  well, not be talking to you right now, very because there's
• 1:42:41
  no doubt in my mind that people are in jail right now.
• 1:42:44
  For things, they did not do simply because they did not have
• 1:42:47
  the money to get proper legal representation.
• 1:42:50
  Yeah. And I've interviewed quite a few
• 1:42:52
  and that there's a thing in Michigan where they had
• 1:42:54
  Integrity unit project where they've released And I think
• 1:42:58
  it's the last. I heard 36 men, who were
• 1:43:01
  wrongly, convicted, and most of them have murder.
• 1:43:04
  And if you think about that, that's 36 men in Michigan, think
• 1:43:08
  about that across the country, it's a staggering to think
• 1:43:12
  about. And that's just the one that,
• 1:43:14
  you know, they found out about, you know, that's like you said,
• 1:43:17
  that's not even counting the ones.
• 1:43:19
  They took plea deals that nobody's looking at every all of
• 1:43:21
  us, but they're not looking at because they plugged, yeah,
• 1:43:24
  yeah, they're not even looking at him because they play guilty.
• 1:43:26
  Exactly. So, the number is, Probably even
• 1:43:28
  more staggering. I had a guy by the name of
• 1:43:30
  Jeffrey desk, havoc on my shit done 16 years.
• 1:43:33
  He actually after he got out of the came, a lawyer himself and
• 1:43:37
  help free to guy by the name of Andre Brown that done 23 years
• 1:43:41
  and he just got out this past December.
• 1:43:43
  First time, he had been able to spend Christmas with his family
• 1:43:46
  in 23 years. They were doing him a double, a
• 1:43:49
  20-year sentence for attempted murder. 20 years.
• 1:43:52
  Each sentence running consecutively, not concurrent so
• 1:43:56
  he was already into his And 20-year sentence and they
• 1:44:00
  appealed and it got turned over for ineffective counsel, and
• 1:44:03
  they're trying to appeal it to put him back in.
• 1:44:04
  But at least right now he's out for, he does three years.
• 1:44:08
  The story that you can get into, man, will people literally jaw
• 1:44:11
  drop when you start to figure it out?
• 1:44:14
  And that's really one thing that I want to keep doing the show.
• 1:44:16
  I enjoy. We're going to keep, let's talk
• 1:44:18
  about that tip. Where do people, where do they
• 1:44:20
  get to you? Because I mean I was easy to
• 1:44:23
  find you on YouTube, but can you tell everybody where to direct
• 1:44:25
  too? Absolutely.
• 1:44:27
  On YouTube. It's a crime and entertainment.
• 1:44:29
  And then we're on Instagram crime, the letter N M
• 1:44:33
  entertainment, Facebook crime and entertainment with the +
• 1:44:37
  symbol. And we're on all audio platforms
• 1:44:40
  as well. So, if you got Spotify Google,
• 1:44:43
  Amazon, Stitcher Apple, I mean, I Heart Radio, we're across the
• 1:44:47
  board. We have a buzzsprout account, so
• 1:44:49
  that just kind of disperses the do, distributes it all out.
• 1:44:52
  And I might say, cuz, you know, we're both podcasters here too.
• 1:44:56
  Ben and man, if you like what you hear, share it because it's
• 1:45:00
  such a big deal to share that out.
• 1:45:02
  And and also, if you like it either either chips or timer
• 1:45:07
  success, leave a review and on Apple because that kind of puts
• 1:45:10
  the place on steroids. Yeah.
• 1:45:13
  In that algorithm an algorithm and if you try to get a hold of
• 1:45:20
  me, go to Brent cast, e.com on the guy that spells caste wrong.
• 1:45:26
  And it's not like Shawna David, it's ity but yeah, leave me a
• 1:45:30
  message there too. I love go back and forth there.
• 1:45:34
  And yeah, if you're still looking for a book out there, I
• 1:45:36
  wrote one, I measure success and it's easy to find on Amazon,
• 1:45:41
  Barnes & Noble Walmart. And like, I used to say, when I
• 1:45:46
  was writing my e-mails back and forth at Leavenworth, stay
• 1:45:48
  strong. And I'll do the same chip
• 1:45:50
  Williamson, man, what a story. Thanks for being my guest today.
• 1:45:55
  Hey man, no problem. Mmm, like I said, it was a
• 1:45:57
  pleasure being on your show and hopefully we had to get you on
• 1:45:59
  mine someday because you got your story as well.
• 1:46:02
  Well, do that now their success in and out will talk to you all
• 1:46:05
  later.