Latest / Open Tabs / 🎧 What's the line between content and real life?

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🎧 What's the line between content and real life? · Open Tabs

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Open Tabs,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: our twice-weekly Substack Live where we talk about the stories taking up spaces
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: in our tabs, our feeds, and our braids.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Melissa.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Megan.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Emma.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Good morning.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: 6 minutes into afternoon for the East Coasters.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, dive straight into it.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: I am obsessed with this Vogue Business article about the meaning of content in
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: the age of content.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we've been talking a lot about, Megan, what is the word?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: The panopticon that we're living in now that we have metaglasses and everyone's
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: a content creator.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And this was about the growing backlash against content creators filming
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: in public specifically.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: This means, like, workout classes.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my, like, Pilates studio that I went to had to ban phones.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: So now when you step in, you have to put your phone.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no phones are allowed.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Out in the open beyond the entrance because people were filming content in classes
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: and that's like not a place.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're sweaty,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: you're not wearing makeup,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: you're flailing around,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: you do not want to be in the background of somebody else's video and
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: then be scrolling TikTok and see yourself like that.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, about how the creator economy is growing so fast and the Uncomfortability with that.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: So a few weeks ago we talked about the Nantucket no influencer sign.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about like nobody wants to see your Birkin.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: The backlash against like the ultra luxury content now that the economy is so bad.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like this is just what it's all really about which is
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to get your all's thoughts.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, first off, I have, like,
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: so many thoughts and reactions,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: but what was sort of, like, the takeaway on the article, Em?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, were there any points,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: like, Like, was it an opinion or was it sort of just like an analysis?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: What was your...
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Work and analysis.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: So this was Vogue Business.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are interested in, like, culture, they're one of my favorite publications.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Vogue Business.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Vogue Business, like, writes really interesting pieces.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: We have a really good contributor for you, Vogue Business.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Megan Collins.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they basically like pulled all the threads that are happening right now,
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: like the no influencer sign,
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: the meta glasses,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: the workout glasses,
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: people filming man on the street content everywhere and have kind of distilled it
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: into the overall theme of consent and people feeling I think,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: like, the Nantucket store owner said it really well.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we feel like people don't want to feel like background actors in somebody else's video.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this recently when it comes to,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure, Emma, you saw Acquired Styles wedding over the weekend.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, Melissa, the less online.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Melissa, this is an influencer who's super popular on TikTok.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Her name is Bridgette.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she's a twin.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: She has a sister named Danielle Filong.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And Bridget goes by Acquired Style.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was her wedding weekend.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like friends with all the New York influencer girlies.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So they were all there.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so everyone is really excited to see like what this wedding would look like.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And somebody leaked a picture.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like someone who was just like in the vicinity took a picture like far away
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: and posted it online.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then like And everybody's reaching out to this girl saying,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: like, hey, Danielle wanted to be the first to share images from her wedding.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And can you take this down?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was weird because they weren't, like, yelling at the girl.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, they needed something from her.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it was very much like, it's not bad that you did this.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's just bad that you did this before Danielle got to.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, she gets to go.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like this consent of, like, who gets the exclusive that was happening.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And people were pretty much on like Danielle's side of like,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, she should get to post her wedding first.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like in this age of content,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's like everybody has different like goals of like how much they want to share
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: of themselves.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like more like who gets to control your brand narrative through content, you know?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: I have a question on that story, actually.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: So is the person who posted it, were they a wedding guest or were they just like out?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: There were two stories,
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  SPEAKER_02: because she's a New York influencer,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: so I get- Oh,
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: so the girl, okay, so the girl posting it has a following.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think there was one person who was just like a Rhode Islander.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: It took place in Newport.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's the one I saw.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like somebody who was like at the hotel, but not a wedding guest.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: There was another story, though,
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: where one of her good friends,
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: who was also like a A micro-influencer sent somebody else pictures from the wedding,
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: and then they posted them,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: and they basically were like,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: so Bridget and her sister, the twins, have a clothing brand, Fifi.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: The twin sister,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: who didn't get married,
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: reached out to this girl and was like, can you please take these photos down?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And these were sent to her from a guest.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like up close of her dress.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Her walking down the aisle was like more intimate, personal photos.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And she said,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: this girl who posted them was like,
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: if you send me clothing from your brand, I'll take them down.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And she did.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: They sent her photos and they did it.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: This like blackmailed her free influencer clothing.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Extortion.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Extortion.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what I'll just say.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: I have a couple thoughts
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: because obviously I think these are two specific different circumstances.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think that
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: if you are a guest at a wedding in today's day and age,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what I'll say.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like depending on who the bride and groom are, I mean,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it's like not,
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: it's like passe to post like photos,
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: especially of the bride because there's always like this reveal or whatever.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's a little bit passe to post photos of the bride before she's able
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: to share herself or the couple like share themselves.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think that know thy audience, though.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I have friends who could have cared less.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and I would say probably the majority of my circles would probably not care.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I do think that if,
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: especially if the bride is an influencer and that's how she makes money
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: and that's her job,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: It really should be like wait until she posts, 100% if you're a guest.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: If you are out in the wild,
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: now the problem with this is that clearly this person,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: even if they're not an influencer,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: knew enough of who Acquired Style is to then Post that and to do it in a timely way
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: that it would infuriate people.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that seems problematic to me.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's sort of weird in general to take pictures of somebody's wedding
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: that you don't know and post it unless there's like a really,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: really specific reason.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh my God, look at this backdrop or like, or, you know, like whatever.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like it just, I feel like there should be, in my opinion, like a purpose to it.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: But also in the same vein, like And maybe this is where the lines get really blurry.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: But like if you if there was a celebrity wedding and you saw, you know.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like George Clooney getting married,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: then I kind of think it's like you're allowed like he you know,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: they have a public persona.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe maybe that's where the lines get sort of blurred here.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: I just think that they're like.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then that to me is more of like a privacy thing.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's not a new thing to be like,
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: I have a private,
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: look at what Taylor Swift has done to make sure that she has control over
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: the aesthetic.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And like, it's not a, it's no joke.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's a real thing.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of think it's like if you are having a wedding and you want it to not,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: you want to have control over it, you have to be really intentional.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: And if they happen to be in a public space, then it's kind of like on them.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my thoughts.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I also think there is an issue in addition to that with people
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: and just like not having good boundaries.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of the my pet peeves is when people are in public
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: and they'll record someone and then be like, find them.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you were in their vicinity.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could have gone up to them and been like, hey, like you found them already.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you like Put this person on the internet,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: ask the internet to find them,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: and then think that that's somehow more acceptable than going up to someone
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: in person and talking to them.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's very strange behavior that's been so normalized online.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is also a very big pet peeve of mine.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: I really, really can't stand it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what makes me,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: it feels like,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big George Orwell fan,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: it feels like Big Brother is watching you and you have
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: to police yourself constantly.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, beyond just like societal norms of behaving as an adult in public.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think of, like, the, like,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: cheating videos where people would be,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: like, on a plane and be like, the guy next to me was texting his mistress.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a video of him texting her.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's blah, blah, blah, and was flying from blah, blah, blah.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Mistake.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Find his wife.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Find his wife.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's, like, so bizarre to me.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think last week, like, the lawyers in Central Park.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Social media has completely blurred the lines.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like the surveillance culture has always been a thing with paparazzi.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And once you reach a certain level of public persona and fame, it's expected.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: But now I feel like social media...
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: an audience
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: for everyone doing anything out in public.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's why Gen Z is so self-conscious and they have
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: the whole Gen Z doesn't dance anymore because they don't want to get filmed.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: To your point, everything new, old is new again.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Having worked in production for TV news for many years,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: There are standards for all of this.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: You have to get media releases.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: You have to ask people.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: They have to sign off on their likeness and their image.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: And for kids, you have to get parental consent if you are going to have them in your content.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I do think we're in this weird moment right now.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: We're to your point.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like there's even more content creators than ever.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: The industry has evolved as such that it really is kind of a more legitimate career every year.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Take it for what you will, but there are college majors now where you can major in influencing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's real money in industry.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: And again,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: I always talk about this because this is It's a big thing that I'm kind of going
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: through right now with Swell at the Swell Club and how sort of interesting
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: because like so much of why,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: you know, Jenny,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Carly and I were like, let's do this is because of our community and like whatnot.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And it is interesting.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I find myself just again because of my background feeling very like, okay,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Just because we're all going golfing today with friends doesn't mean that they want
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: to be in this or they want to be a part of it.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Or do they want to align themselves with it?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of a weird thing.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: We also have some good friends who are influencers.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to call out names,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: but friends of theirs have said,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: sometimes it feels like we go over to dinner to so-and-so's house
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: and it feels like I'm in a movie or something.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because the whole thing is being captured for content.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's a very weird parasocial...
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how you would describe it, but it's like... Or on the flip side, I feel like...
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you guys do this,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: but I have friends who plan out full trips now for what it will look like
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: on their Instagram.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's disturbing.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, I'm going to go do this because this is the...
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, are you living a real life or are you just projecting?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's really weird.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's kind of coming to a head right now, discourse-wise.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know it's bad when New York City workout classes get pissed.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: I told... Oh,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I said since we've been on,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: but my Pilates studio had to ban phones because there was a problem
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: of people filming in classes and we were...
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: In the background of their videos.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really uncomfortable and really unpleasant.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it was like such a problem that the studio had to ban phones.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you will get scolded if you have a phone out and they see you.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think it's like...
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: I was going to
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: say, I think I saw a bunch of content around that specifically
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: with Tracy Anderson's studio.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think...
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: That was like a really big specific call out because so much, I mean,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: and it's weird because I feel like with that one in particular,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: it's so creator driven.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I almost think Thetterson is like in with the New York City influencer girls big time.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I almost have been thinking about it like it's going to be like smoking
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: where restaurants used to have like smoking sections, non-smoking sections.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that or like there's like certain places where you can smoke,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: certain places where you can't.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like everyone's going to just like decide on their relationship
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: with like being on the Internet.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're going to want more clear like distinction of like
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: where is this acceptable to just be filming and where is it not, you know?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you like I feel like Tracy Anderson should have like No phone classes
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: where it's like, if you really don't wanna be filmed, this is the class for you.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But like,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: so it's like,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's gonna be a one size fits all approach just
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: because social media is so embedded into our lifestyles.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think that there's a movement away from wanting to be,
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: like people wanna opt out at the Panopticon as much as they can, you know?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you're, I hadn't made that.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was creeping, Megan.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: That is like, we gotta, Emma, we gotta quote graph that.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you see that already happening with like no phone concerts
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: that some artists are having.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I know like clubs in New York City at least will have like no phone nights
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: where like they'll take your phone camera or like Similar to my Pilates class,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: if they see you having your phone out,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: you will get, like, yelled at by the bartender.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that comparison, though, to, like, smoking areas.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's so spot on.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: So for our next topic, this is a fun marketing moment that happened this week.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out to Bree on the Hinge team for flagging this to us.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: So Hinge has their annual ordinary love campaign that they do every year
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: where they share user love stories that have started on the platform.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And typically they've done this in long form writing on their Substack.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: But this year in an effort to meet Gen Z where they're at,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: they've decided to release audio books of this year's love stories.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's on Spotify and Libby, which is like a And I love this.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is like so fun.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm subscribed to their
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Substack, just because I'm like, oh, it's a cool brand that's on the platform.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: I should be paying attention to what they're doing.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't read, really.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've skimmed, but I haven't actually read anything yet.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like I will actually listen to the audiobooks in this year's campaign.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we wrote about this a while back.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was last Valentine's Day.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: We wrote about like the different dating apps.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember like noticing that what Hinge was doing with their kind
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: of brand campaign and their positioning was what has been lost with online dating is
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: the meet cute.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's such a core thing about a couple's love story.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So they've kind of been like, that's not your love story.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then kind of created a different container for people to tell their love story
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: that doesn't revolve around them being cute.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is a really smart evolution that is hitting on a lot of trends
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: that are popular right now, like romance, audiobooks, and the likes of it.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't listened to them,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: so I can't give whether or not it was well executed,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: but I think the strategy is definitely there.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting that narrators are Hunter Harris,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: who is a big substacker,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: and then the other one,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Rufy Thorpe,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: who wrote Margot's Got Money Troubles, which I just read for my book club.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think they picked, like, cool.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And Margot's Got Money Troubles is such, like, a gently coming-of-age story.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought it was really interesting.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm super curious to see like after it's been
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: out for a while,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: like they probably won't release, but like how many
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: people tune in to it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And another thing that's really cool about Hinge is like they are still not active
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: on any of the traditional social media platforms.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like they don't post on Instagram.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: They have a TikTok, but it's completely blank.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're not anywhere except Substack and now Spotify and Libby,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: which I think is very fun.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm obsessed with a thoughtful
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: digital social media approach,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: and I think More brands should be selective over which platforms they go on and
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: then how they show up in those spaces.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think this whole thing is so cool, like 100%.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and like to really build, I mean,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: if you're stepping back for a second and you're thinking about it from,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: this is like my obsession too,
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: like I keep doing this on all my client calls lately, but yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Really stepping back and looking critically at like both your target audience,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: like who are you going for,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: and then communities of people that are on a given platform and who do you want
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: to build equity with.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: And like if I'm thinking about Hinge,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: you know, Substack is such an interesting place.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like obviously it's marketed as we've talked about
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: as this like intellectual platform and like I do think it is sort of a bit of
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: an evolution or like a higher,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: like more in-depth because it's long form,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: but like a more in-depth like version of what Twitter used to be.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's culturally relevant.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's also a little slower, which I love.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't feel like it feels very like, again, I mean, it's not perfect, we know.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I've seen some even more recent interesting headlines,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: but I do think that if I were to Think about like a sub-brand of Hinge
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: where you are sort of telling love stories or you're like storytelling out of like
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: the product essentially.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think this is such a cool thing to do and I think to then evolve it to audio 100%
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: if we think about larger culture and like moves toward audio book
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: and audio consumption.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Also audio is Reaching more people because you're hopefully tapping them in different spaces.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: They're not just staring at their phone, they're commuting and all of that.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Also, Hinge,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: these are people,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: and I haven't looked at the analytics of people who are on Substack,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: but I'm sure that they are...
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: doing well socioeconomically,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: like they're largely like employed or,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: you know, are self-starters who are able to like run their own newsletters, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's definitely like a, I think it's a very thoughtful way to go about this.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I could even see this going,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: like continuing to go depending on,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure it's like sort of a experiment our way in,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: but like you could even see them You know, publishing books too, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can build out the community.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really, you know, like, again, robust, it's active, it's people are really into it.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: maybe people will start,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: they'll publish their own books and It's like, again,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: a whole separate way to evolve Hinge,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: but also at the end of the day, too,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: if you're subbing back 360 and you're looking at it,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: you're like, well, it just validates this tech business that we're running.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, here's proof of concept.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's look at how it works.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I just think it's really cool.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great little headline driver for them.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Super smart.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Congrats, Hinge.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't wait personally to listen and check it out.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: And a question, Melissa, you brought up in our pre-call that we have to prep for this.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: You asked if there is a demand for romance content right now because you're seeing
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: so much horror in our media, right?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Our favorite topic.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: My take as a Gen Z single hinges target audience.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think IRL feels so zapped of romance for a lot of singles out there.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: People don't approach in person as much as they used to.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like there's a demand for romance content because
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: so many people aren't getting it in their actual lives.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: I would imagine,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: look at these hinge,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: no ordinary love stories as like, oh,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: there's hope for me to find romance on these dating apps,
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: which are so algorithmic and formulaic and feel like a chore and not finding
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: the love of my life.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it is interesting that I feel like it is romance and horror are
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: the two Like driving genres right now,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: which seem very opposite, but maybe not so much.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: My one thing on this would be I do think that the larger issue with
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: the dating scene right now, though,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: is like that women are the ones who are burnt out and exhausted and men like,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know, we talk about the male loneliness epidemic and all of that.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like this campaign is going to go super well with women.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it also like sets an expectation that I'm like.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is this expectation going to be met on the platform?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where the issue comes in because I think you're going to,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: if this is going to work,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to hit the romance community who still believes in love
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: and they're going to be like, I should give Hinge another try.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then their experience is just going to be so vastly different
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: from what they're hearing in these audiobooks.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: like I said,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: great strategy,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: execution,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: because where it's dependent on heterosexual men It's not going to live up
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: to this nine times out of 10.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would love to see as well as like these great campaigns targeted
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: towards women,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: like what are they doing to make the male dating pool live up to these stories
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: and narratives that they're telling?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that The apps have led to the incentivization of men.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think that they have a little bit of responsibility to kind of like,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: if they want women to continue using these platforms,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: to also put effort into like fixing.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: The male population.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was going to say, this is reminding me of a conversation that we've had.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say maybe it was last week or maybe it was Tuesday.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: But about this idea of teaching Gen Z, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like this idea of like,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: And to that point,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: if I were Hinge and I was thinking about my digital and social strategy
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: and taking what you're saying into consideration, Megan,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: to me that almost feels like how do we sort of dovetail this effort into like
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: a TikTok strategy of like here's it's almost like how like how do you turn this
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: into like video content in some way that then Is essentially like,
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know, it's, what is it called?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's like success stories of like how to and putting it out on short form video.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like to me,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: that feels like if I were to like think about, again,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: not every platform,
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: but I think like TikTok is like straight to the Gen Z,
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: straight to the Gen Zers, right?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: And not to do it in a cringy way.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't think it's about that, but I think it's really just the hows.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think that
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: To me,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: especially when
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it's a little bit of like
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: the how are people meeting each other and how is how is this happening
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: in our real world right now?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe leaning into that of like and this is how it worked out and it really was
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: a fairy tale.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And like this is, you know, so that's sort of like my gut reaction on it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like this feels like A really smart,
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: cool content storytelling play that we're seeing them in real time evolve it, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's gone from a Substack, now we're gonna hear it.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: What comes after that, you know?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how people react.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, based on the article, there's Substack.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's thriving.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I just think it's very fun for a brand to put all their eggs in
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: the long form writing and storytelling basket on social.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's very fun.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: I also think it's smart because people are burned out from dating and
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: the last thing they want is probably to see Hinge dating app content.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: So this is for the people who are specifically seeking them out, which I think is very smart.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, well, thank you guys so much for a fun convo as always.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we will post this tomorrow and be back on live next Tuesday.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.