Latest / find your cause / How 91% of Illinois Wetlands Disappeared With Peter Goodspeed
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- speaker-0: We've seen a huge decline in wetlands, unfortunately, over the past two hundred years, especially in in the agricultural Midwest, I think between like at least in Illinois, between eighty and ninety one percent of the the wetlands have been lost in the last two hundred years. And that was mainly attributed to speaker-1: All right. Thanks everyone for tuning into this episode of Find Your Cause. Today we have Peter Goodspeed, who's the restoration program director at the Wetlands Initiative. Peter, thank you for your time on this wonderful Friday here in the Chicago area. speaker-0: Hey Joseph, thanks for having me here. Happy to be here today. speaker-1: Awesome. So ⁓ the Wetlands Initiative, what is it about? What is y'all's mission? speaker-0: Yeah, great question. So the Wetlands Initiative, we are a small environmental nonprofit ⁓ based out of Chicago. Our mission is to design, restore, and create wetlands. And we do that through innovative approaches. We work very collaboratively with partners and we employ sound science to improve water quality, habitat for plants and wildlife, and our climate. speaker-1: Right. ⁓ I have a lot of questions 'cause this is a newer concept from me, but before we do, why why you? Why the Wetlands Initiative? Why is this something that you're dedicating a large portion of your life to? speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, so I I actually grew up in in southwest Michigan and I spent a lot of time exploring the ⁓ north woods up in northern Michigan and the dunes and and coastal wetlands ⁓ along Lake Michigan and I've always been been intrigued and fascinated by by nature, by by native ecosystems. ⁓ and I've always been drawn to these native ecosystems. And I guess throughout the course of my my education and and my career, ⁓ you know, I I really I wanted to do something in conservation. And it sort of led me to to ecological restoration, which is really neat. You know, it's a way in which we can work in these in these degraded landscapes to to reverse biodiversity loss. and and bring back the native ecosystems that existed here you know 200 years ago before before european settlers ⁓ came to this region so ⁓ i ecological restoration is just you know really neat in that ⁓ it gives us the ability to to work on a landscape scale and and focus on on ⁓ you know restoring creating ⁓ and and bringing back ⁓ native habitat speaker-1: No. So ⁓ I feel like the the immediate question that comes to mind is con the whole concept of conservation, for somebody that doesn't know much about it, why is it important and why should they want to to learn more about it? speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ so I think the the the textbook definition, so to speak, of conservation is, you know, doing ⁓ making making sort of like decisions ⁓ on the the use of the wise use of of resources for the greatest good for the greatest number of people ⁓ you know, now and into the future, thinking about future generations. ⁓ and I think within the field of conservation, there are sort of these like subdisciplines, right? So you can go into resource protection where you're you're you're protecting, you're putting like legal restrictions on one's ability to develop a high quality area, for example. you've got, you know, different fields of environmental science that look at ⁓ you know cleaning the water, the soil, the air, ⁓ you know, that exists in the environments ⁓ that we live in. ⁓ and then as I mentioned before, you know, restoration is sort of this emerging ⁓ subdiscipline within conservation that does more than just protecting ⁓ you know, valuable resources. It actually aims to to restore these resources ⁓ and implement on the ground projects and you know improve these degraded sites to to a condition where they can support more ⁓ organisms, flora and fauna. ⁓ and other you know species and wildlife. speaker-1: All right. And then ⁓ within kind of that the conservation ecological ecological res restoration and then wetlands specifically. what is a wetland? Let's start there. speaker-0: Yeah. So a wetland is you know, I think a lot of people they think, ⁓ a wetland is just, you know, an area that holds water or, you know, they might there might be a big flood and there could be an area of their their backyard that might, you know, be fully saturated with water. There might be a little puddle there in their turf grass. And, you know, really a wetland is much more than that. Wetland you know, is a combination of of hydrology of you know standing water or saturated soils. ⁓ native ⁓ they contain native plants that are are adapted to these hydric soils that need water. They need ⁓ you know hydric soils, saturated soils or standing water to to exist there. and then thinking about like the the underlying soils and the underlying geology that that allows that water to sort of like stay in place there ⁓ is also you know how a wetland is defined. So I would say yeah, it's a combination of those those three elements, right? Hydrology, plants, and soil. speaker-1: All right. And then what what role does a wetland play ⁓ in our environment? speaker-0: ⁓ a really big one, you know, wetlands, I think when we think about native ecosystems, you know, obviously ⁓ native ecosystems they do they have intrinsic value, right? ⁓ but also when we think of native ecosystems and the utilitarian value that they they the they provide ⁓ to humanity, the goods and services that they they provide, you know, wetlands are sort of like a powerhouse when it comes to ⁓ providing ecosystem services for humanity in that they, you know, are great at ⁓ flood flood control, flood protecting from flooding, right? They create these these splace these ⁓ spaces that absorb flood waters. ⁓ they clean the water so wetlands are actually really good at removing ⁓ certain pollutants and you know sediment, nitrates and and other pollutants from water. and improve the water quality. They obviously, you know, they provide a ton of habitat for ⁓ native plants and wildlife, migratory and secretive marsh birds. ⁓ You know, they are there are a lot of ⁓ sort of like unique species of wildlife that, you know, really only exist ⁓ and occupy and visit ⁓ wetland sites. ⁓ and then in fighting climate change too, they're really good at sequestering and storing carbon so so ⁓ you know, directly mitigating the impacts of climate change ⁓ through that that ⁓ carbon sequestration and storage in these wetland soils. ⁓ so yeah, I mean I don't I don't know if it's a claim that I can make. ⁓ you know I don't have any data to back this right now, but I think on a you know a per acre basis, ⁓ you know, wet wetlands likely provide ⁓ more value than ⁓ you know many other ⁓ native ecosystems, especially in the Midwest. speaker-1: Wow. And then ⁓ w what is kind of the top three things that are degrading ⁓ the current wetlands that you guys are trying to restore? Like what activities or or it sounds like just expansion of of our the human race into new areas, but or what are what are ⁓ what other contributions contribute to that? speaker-0: Absolutely. I mean, definitely habitat loss, and that's driven, you know, mainly by agricultural development, industrial development, you know, commercial development. ⁓ we've seen a huge decline in wetlands, unfortunately, over the past, you know, two hundred years, ⁓ especially in in the agricultural Midwest, I think between like at least in Illinois, between eighty and ninety-one percent of the the wetlands have been lost ⁓ in the last two hundred years. And That was mainly attributed to ⁓ agricultural development through ⁓ drainage, drain tiling areas. So ⁓ you know, corn and beans, they they really like to grow at sort of this ⁓ certain conditions in which the water table, you know, support these plants, which is which is lower ⁓ than a lot of ⁓ wet you know, native wetland water table ⁓ conditions. So ⁓ Yeah, for for agriculture to expand. you know, people come in, they they install these ⁓ agricultural drain tiles to lower that water table to make it more more suitable for for ⁓ plant the growth ⁓ and yield of ⁓ corn and soybeans. speaker-1: Okay, and that reduces the amount that the wetland is able to grow and expand and less less flora and fauna. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean it is it essentially destroys the wetland by diverting water away from from that ground and then through the, you know, systematic ⁓ like plowing and application of herbicide ⁓ to make the site suitable for corn and beans and other agriculture. you know, obviously there there's the removal of all the data vegetation and everything. ⁓ that would otherwise be supported ⁓ you know, by these these wetlands. Yeah. speaker-1: So how somebody that and and I can use me like me as an example, but I'm I'm sure a lot of people are ⁓ like don't want they they want they want their cake and want to eat it too, want to make their cake and eat it too. So like they want industrial expansion and agricultural expansion, but they also want ⁓ reducing climate change and reducing carbon footprint. so like what what how do you talk through somebody of the importance of ⁓ activities of the wetland initiative in in restoring and designing in creating these wetlands, ⁓ but at the same time, the h human progress. Yeah, I think that's like that's like where people in their brains are like, I want to help. I don't want to cause destruction, but I also like want to start this business or expand this argument. Like how how do you how do you talk through that and just even in your mind ⁓ work through that as a human? speaker-0: Sure, absolutely. And I and I'm not, you know, I'm not against like economic growth and yeah, definitely. You know, we if it were not for, you know, farmers coming in and and plowing the prairie and you know, ⁓ destroying wetlands, ⁓ you know, we would not in be enjoying this, you know, multi-trillion dollar economy that that exists within the United States. And and I guess to your point too, I think that's why ecological restoration is such a cool tool because it sort of recognizes that and acknowledges that, you know, we're in this place now ⁓ through, you know, our in our society through economic development and and living in like a post-industrialized society that, you know, now we have the resources and the the means to to pick and choose, you know, some of these areas to restore back to to native habitat. And and Yeah, like you mentioned, you know, it is striking that balance. You know, we're not we would we're we would never ask the farmers to completely abandon all their land and convert it back to native habitat. But and and ⁓ we do have a good, you know, relationship with farmers. ⁓ you know, one area that one program that ⁓ within the wetlands initiative is our our Smart Wetlands program, ⁓ which is really neat. We work ⁓ with private landowners on on working farms throughout Illinois and Indiana. And we work we work with them on installing what we call smart wetlands or tile treatment wetlands. And these are are tiny. They're like you know between one to two acres ⁓ and are constructed in like a corner of you know one's agricultural land and they they actually intercept the the tile drainage coming off of of that ag field. And it runs through this little one acre wetland and the native vegetation and and the the soil and the microbes within that wetland actually clean the water, it removes the nitrate and other pollutants ⁓ before it, you know, enters the the streams adjacent to these ag fields. And yeah, and farmers they they love these because they're they're you know they're being good stewards of the land, right? They're cleaning the water, ⁓ you know, being good neighbors ⁓ to their, you know, other down gradient farmers. ⁓ may enjoy the benefits of cleaner water, ⁓ flood control. And you know, a lot of them they really like installing these little like honey holes on their land, these little pockets of habitat and get really excited about seeing all the ducks and other wildlife that that ⁓ you know come and visit these little smart wetlands. So so in a long answer to your question, yeah, you know, we're we we're f figuring out how to s strike a balance with constructing and restoring these wetlands in a way ⁓ that's sort of complementary to existing you know agricultural and industrial development. speaker-1: Yeah. I I would love to like ⁓ model out what if the world led to there being zero wetlands, what would be the result of it? And what would the world lead to if there were a plethora of wetlands and what would that world look like? As best as you could estimate, you know. I've never ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, a world ⁓ completely devoid of wetlands. I mean, we would see catastrophic flooding, first of all, right? Because you have you have these big ⁓ extreme weather events that are getting worse and worse, you know, with climate change, more extreme, right? So so imagine a deluge of rain. and there's nowhere for that rain to go. It hits a building or a parking lot or a field. There's no No wetlands to absorb that water. so you have massive flooding. It would be diverted, you know, immediately to like a main river, ⁓ where, you know, the the the river would in turn flood well over the banks of the river, you know, high up into its floodplain and and we'd see ⁓ you know, catastrophic flooding and and property loss and damage. ⁓ Yeah, without wetlands too, the the water we ⁓ would be you know, it wouldn't be as clean as it is, so we'd have more speaker-1: All those floods that you mentioned would be very dirty water. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, you know, more pollutants making their way directly into waterways. ⁓ we have a big, you know, one one goal of our ⁓ Smart Wetlands program, for example, is to remove nitrate from the water before it makes its way down to the Mississippi, which ends up in the Gulf, ⁓ because the nitrate runoff creates these ⁓ dead zones in the Gulf where it it ⁓ promotes the growth of algae, then the algae decomposes. sucks all the dissolved oxygen out of the water and it leads to these like massive ⁓ the massive loss of marine life in the area. So yeah, a lot yeah. A lot more of that. speaker-1: That is wild. ⁓ to think of it that way. Wetland that the the impact to humans if there were no wetlands. ⁓ and then ⁓ yeah, are there any like federal incentives for farmers that that want to take advantage of the smart wetlands program yet? Just knowing the impact if they don't have it? speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, that's a that's a great question. And that and again, this actually isn't part of my the program that I I manage here at TWI, but I believe ⁓ yeah, there are all sorts of ⁓ federal ⁓ conservation programs, ⁓ certain incentives ⁓ to do these like edge of field practices. Yep. ⁓ I think one of them ⁓ is e is called equip. It's like environmental quality incentives program or something like that. ⁓ That provides some cost share to like implementing projects like smart wetland installation. ⁓ and then I've done some work in the previous roles too, working with ⁓ conservation reserve program, ⁓ also known as CRP, where the federal government will actually pay farmers to pull land out of production and restore that that ⁓ agricultural land to ⁓ you know native prairie to benefit pollinators. or forested riparian buffers to to help ⁓ you know restore floodplain habitat adjacent to rivers, for example. So yeah, absolutely. speaker-1: Yeah. And then I I'm I don't like being doom and gloom, so we have to think the the positive end of this is if there were a pl like a plethora, if there were w wetlands wherever possible, what would that world look like? speaker-0: Yeah, I mean that would be a pr pretty cool world to live in. We would be ⁓ you know, existing among a lot of really cool and interesting you know, native wetland habitat where we'd see an abundance of of conservative native plants and and ⁓ wildlife. ⁓ you know, these wetlands would be full of migratory and secretive marsh birds, ⁓ beaver, muskrat, otter. ⁓ our water would be cleaner. ⁓ we would yeah, enjoy just the many benefits that ⁓ you know, society has to gain from from existing among among this this this world with plentiful healthy wellens. So yeah, absolutely. speaker-1: Well. So as restoration program director, what are some of the main activities that you're focused on? speaker-0: ⁓ so yeah, my program oversees wetland ⁓ restoration in a few areas ⁓ throughout the region. So we work on projects at the Sioux and West Dixon Waterfowl Refuge, which is a 3,000-acre waterfowl refuge down in the central Illinois in the Illinois River Valley. And that site is really neat, and that's actually the only site that TWI owns. ⁓ and we've been doing work down there since the late 90s ⁓ where we restored this 3,000 plus acre area from from ag to to ⁓ floodplain wetlands and and other ecosystems including ⁓ oak savannah and tall grass prairie. ⁓ we've also partnered with the US Forest Service to restore ⁓ wetlands and prairie ecosystems at Madewen National Tallgrass Prairie. So Madewin's a also a neat site. It's the former site of one of the largest ⁓ munitions plants ⁓ manufacturer production plants ⁓ during World War II ⁓ and also supported munitions production during the ⁓ Korean and Vietnam Wars as well. And it's a 20, about a 20,000 acre site ⁓ just outside of Juan, Ill, Illinois. And there's we've we've I think we've been involved in restoring about four thousand acres of that over over the years. ⁓ and we've recently partnered with another environmental nonprofit, open lands, to to tackle this 1300 acre area that we're we're currently working on restoring. ⁓ so yeah, that's a really neat area. ⁓ I think it's a little Little underrated. I don't think a lot of people realize it's one of the largest ⁓ protected green spaces within the greater Chicago area. speaker-1: Yeah, I had no idea. Wow. there there has to be so the the impact that you guys are able to track of that your initial owned site of the three thousand acres in the Illinois Valley area and then also this ⁓ this location of the former munitions land area w w s I I'm assuming there had to be a ⁓ like a I don't want to say a business reason, but like for people investing the time and the money into to switch into conserving those spaces. What was like the the initial pitch or what was like the the the ongoing tracking of the impact of that decision and investment of all the the people and and the capital into doing that? I don't know if you have that. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I think, you know, this and this the the refuge was restored, you know, back in starting in like two thousand one and I think it was really, yeah, just a group of people coming together, pooling their resources, ⁓ you know, wanting to to prove that this could be done, that yeah, restoration could be done at a large landscape scale. And so yeah, I mean it was by no means ⁓ you know, ⁓ a a a sort of investment in the sense that ⁓ these individuals were receiving, you know, monetary benefits from restoring the site. But I would say that, you know, the dividends of this investment there there still is ROI on this investment and in the form of you know, greater biodiversity. Yeah. and restoring habitat in in a s in a 3,000 acre site that was once, you know, only corn and beans and a handful of agricultural weeds. So ⁓ yeah, and I love looking at the the old pictures and and seeing ⁓ you know, just how the site has transformed over the years. And that I will say is like our flagship site. ⁓ it is a a real ecological gem ⁓ right off of the Illinois River. speaker-1: Is that open to the public or no? Okay. speaker-0: It is, yep. Yep. It's open three three hundred and sixty five days a year. it's got it's w it's incredibly biodiverse for the the for its size. It I think it contains about eight hundred different species of plants, twenty two different habitat types. and although there's no hunting allowed on the site, there is ⁓ fishing allowed in the hennepin and hopper lakes that exist in the middle of the refuge. So speaker-1: Yeah, they can Yeah, yeah, that is amazing. The dumb question, those six hundred species of plants, d were those brought in or was that just naturally developed, like once you started, you know, the program? speaker-0: Highly recommend you visit. Yeah, great another great question. Yeah, they so the the way the site was designed is it actually at one one point in its history an earthen levee was built to separate it ⁓ the site from the Illinois River to to allow farming to happen. So it and and there was a series of ditches and drain tiles and a and a pump installed to to keep the site dry enough for for farming to happen. Well, after ⁓ TWI acquired the land. we destroyed all the ditches and and and ⁓ drain tiles and we turned the pump off in like 2001. And it slowly over the course of just a few months filled back up with water. And during that time, during that period as well, there was a lot of native seed ⁓ brought in to especially like to some of the more upland, like tall grass prairie ⁓ areas. So the those species were were brought back into the site. But a lot of the ⁓ wetland plants, ⁓ you know, deep emergent wetland plants actually ended up just kind of ⁓ germinating. The seeds end up germinating and growing on their own. So wet wetland plants are kind of unique in that their seeds can remain viable in the soil for hundreds of years if you know kept at the right condition. So even after all that time that land was being farmed. ⁓ those seeds were just, you know, remaining in the soil, just kind of waiting for the right time to germinate and grow. speaker-1: Yeah. And looking back to our history, like hundreds of years ago, w what like what percentage of the US would you say was a wetland and and where are we at now? 'Cause 'cause where my head goes is well cool, if they could if those seeds could stay around for hundreds of years, if we just you know, r find areas where we could destroy some pumps and let natural water flow where it goes and and restore the wetlands. Like what How how is over the past few hundred years wetland percentage coverage of the US than where we're at now? I don't know if that's another data point yet. A rough estimate. Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. I you know, I have the numbers for Illinois, but I can't Yeah. Well, and I think I I I said the ⁓ well let me let me look at my notes. I know the the extent of the wetland ⁓ destruction was like between eighty and ninety one percent of the wetlands in Illinois have been ⁓ destroyed and speaker-1: Yeah. Well Illinois works too. Yeah. Farming. speaker-0: Included that included about seven million acres of wetland cover within the state. So speaker-1: Geez. Yes. And is that current state? Like we're still at, you know, ninety plus percent has is is still not a wetland anymore. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. ⁓ yeah. speaker-0: Yes, that is correct. Yep. Pretty devastating, but also, you know, like you said, that ⁓ you know, there is there are some opportunities there too for for people to identify areas that, you know, might not be, you know, as productive in ag ⁓ or you know, certain bottlenecks or or places on the landscape where you know, we'd get the most like bang for our buck, so to speak, as far as ⁓ wetland restoration and the benefits that they provide. speaker-1: Yeah. I and and I don't know too much about farming, but I do know that lands can get over farmed. ⁓ so I'm wondering if that's like in it like if there's an incentive structure for farmers that have land that just cannot be farmed anymore to convert it to wetlands. ⁓ like what would be in it for them to do that and and that would be really interesting to to evaluate. ⁓ Man, man. Okay. That's really interesting. So ⁓ that was starting in two thousand one. ⁓ And that was what twenty five years ago now. What do you hope to you know, in twenty five years from today to look back and see in terms of the difference? Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. I mean we we have I would say I would say we have very we have sites in various stages of restoration because, you know, restoration it it never quite ends. You know, my predecessor used to say we don't just set it and forget it, right? These sites, ⁓ you know, once they're restored, they they do need a certain level of of maintenance. and but I would say that the Dixon Refuge and some of the sites we've restored within ⁓ Madewen National Tautgrass Prairie are definitely, you know, within that ⁓ maintenance phase currently, ⁓ which is great. You know, that's where we want them to be. Another project area, and I I haven't mentioned this yet, that is ⁓ you know, is sort of new and exciting with with the wetlands initiative, is we've started working within the by state Calumet region. So the Calumet region is sort of that area ⁓ On the southern rim of Lake Michigan. And historically, ⁓ you know, now now you look at this area now, it's southeast Chicago, northwest Indiana, you see a lot of industry, a lot of old steel mills, a lot of ⁓ industrial, commercial, residential development. And historically, you know, back 200 years ago, this area was so rich in native biodiversity. ⁓ you know, some even considered it as like the the Everglades, Florida Everglades of the the Midwest. Wow. ⁓ and yeah, you look at it today and there is a lot of development, but we've ⁓ sort of started moving ⁓ into the region and and looking at ⁓ certain areas and and doing wetland restoration projects ⁓ in southeast Chicago and northwest Indiana. So we're currently working on projects in the Lake Calumet region, ⁓ which includes site sites around ⁓ Lake Calumet, Wolf Lake, and then we've also started or we've we're also working on projects along the ⁓ west branch of the Little Calumet River ⁓ that flows through the communities of Highland, Gary, Indiana, and a few other ⁓ communities in that area. And some of those sites ⁓ are in really, really rough shape, but we've ⁓ you know, it's a it's quite it's been quite the undertaking to the extent where the restoration we're doing there is almost considered like brownfield redevelopment. ⁓ you know, we in especially in Southeast Chicago, we have areas that were just basically filled in with ⁓ you know, artificial fill, construction debris, sand slag, which is like an industrial byproduct from steel production. ⁓ and These sites are so far gone and so degraded. But we are actually seeing a vast improvement ⁓ you know, after undertaking some of these projects in the region. ⁓ so really excited about the future of that work and ⁓ yeah, getting more more on the ground ⁓ more funding for on the ground work ⁓ in the Calumet region. speaker-1: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that put that's it's straight east of me, so that's not too far. So I'm excited to see how that that how that develops. ⁓ people people that are listening that that want to be a part of ⁓ preventing those those future in intense floods that could happen if we ha were to have no wetlands and and also want to reap the benefits of ⁓ having more wetlands. ⁓ what's the the the type of engagement that you look for? speaker-0: Yeah, ⁓ good question. I think for we we encourage pe if people want to engage directly ⁓ with our organization or other similar ⁓ organizations, you know, I really encourage you our listeners to to volunteer, you know, go out, ⁓ help your your local park district or forest preserve district or environmental nonprofit. ⁓ you know, we we need a lot of help. ⁓ the Wetlands Initiative, we we actually host ⁓ volunteer events periodically throughout the year. Volunteers can come help ⁓ plant native seed, ⁓ burn invasive brush, plant plugs, and participate in other activities that actually directly support the work on the ground. So that is, you know, a super a super helpful way to to ⁓ you know get your hands dirty and and help get some native plants in the ground. ⁓ I think indirectly too, I mean I encourage our listeners to ⁓ if there is any sort of ⁓ wetland related or like conservation ⁓ specific legislation ⁓ within your state or ⁓ you know local government entity to to reach out to your state or local representatives ⁓ to encourage them to support that wetland or that legislation for you know wetland protection, wetland restoration or other ⁓ conservation initiatives. And then, you know, obviously ⁓ donating to some of these causes, ⁓ you know, is really helpful as well. We rely very heavily on large ⁓ fed federal grants for the work that we do, but you know, we do receive ⁓ private donations that help ⁓ with match support for these large federal grants. ⁓ and then private donations ⁓ could also be used to just support the overall ⁓ you know operational ⁓ day-to-day expenses. ⁓ of certain environmental NGOs, including the Wildlands Initiative. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. So people that are listening and and want to get engaged and want to have an impact and and be a part of this, ⁓ please reach out. Is there ⁓ i thinking like i as an individual, are wetlands possible for me to to I don't know to create or to support like in my home or or are they a little bit bigger than that? I'm I'm trying to think of like people that are listening, what are some takeaways or things that they could maybe do now ⁓ as well at their home or at their property? I don't know about apartment, but if they don't have land, but but but and maybe those are the people that could come and volunteer. ⁓ but any any small low level of effort, high impact things that we could be thinking about, even if you think broader conservation, not necessarily just what, land specific. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean you're yeah, definitely. There's really no like minimum size requirement for creating a wetland. ⁓ I guess, yeah, I mean, I encourage our listeners to to understand you know, the native flora of ⁓ you know, the wetlands ecosystems within their their area. ⁓ there may be opportunities to to you know do some native landscaping, the installation of rain. water gardens or bioswales, for example, would be a great start. ⁓ identify those low areas on your property, ⁓ you know, figure out how to get them to hold water there. ⁓ and then, you know, plant a bunch of native plants that support pollinators, ⁓ birds and other species of wildlife. ⁓ so yeah, certainly, you know, one can do wetland habitat restoration on a a small small scale ⁓ on On one's own property. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. speaker-1: well Peter, is there anything that we missed or anything you want to leave us with before we wrap it up? speaker-0: ⁓ I don't think so. ⁓ yeah, I just I guess I'll just end with one ⁓ plug to say that you know the Wetlands Initiative, we are ⁓ a small but mighty environmental nonprofit. You know, we're composed of only about twenty full time staffers. ⁓ but you know, we we pack a pretty big punch and I I would say that ⁓ you know, supporting the work that we do you know, you one would get the most bang for their buck, so to speak. ⁓ we've demonstrated ⁓ incredible success in the in the sort of the hard case projects that we've undertaken. ⁓ and we're gonna continue to strive to be ⁓ you know, leaders in ⁓ ecological restoration ⁓ within this region of the Midwest. So sign up today for our e newsletter. visit us on our website at wetlands dash initiative.org. ⁓ or you can also follow us on Instagram at Wetlands Initiative. Yeah. speaker-1: Well Peter, th thank you so much for the work that you do. ⁓ I learned a ton here myself and and I've interviewed a couple of conservation focused organizations. ⁓ so still learned a ton here. ⁓ and in the work that you're doing in educating people on the importance of wetlands ⁓ is is very important ⁓ for us to have a sustainable future. So thank you for the work you do, Peter, and thank you for your time here on on this Friday. speaker-0: Yeah, thank you, Joseph. This was fun. speaker-1: Awesome.