Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Loving Angry Kids | a conversation with Tricia Goyer

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Loving Angry Kids | a conversation with Tricia Goyer · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi friends! Welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are new here, I'm so glad you joined us.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Here at Simply Wholehearted, we are sharing our journey as we discover how to better love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And even though you might be surrounded by a world of half-heartedness, we hope to inspire you to living wholeheartedly as our friends share their stories and simple ideas of how they practice reach over perfection in their everyday.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Besides getting to hear from today's guest, I'm going to answer more of your Anneagram questions and share some meaningful minute inspiration.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure you keep listening after our conversation.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: October of 2017, I got to attend an annual conference called Declare in Dallas, Texas, with my good friend Sarah Hagerty.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: We had a fantastic time.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I got to get extra snuggles with the Hagerty mascot, VA, who is already closer to her second birthday than I can believe.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And she's still as cute as ever.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Sarah and I recorded a conversation late one of those nights, which was a ton of fun.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it also happens to be episode number 24, The Gift of Being Hidden.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: But those few days in and out of the conference turned out to be really impactful for me.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: It opened the door to so many valuable relationships and teaching.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And since last year, I had been thinking about attending this year's conference.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And though it didn't work out until the last minute, I got to attend.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: There is so much I might share someday.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: But for now, I get to share my conversation with Trisha Goyer.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: She was one of our speakers and attendees, both in 2017 and this year.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So last year, when I heard that she had written over 70 books, I knew I had to talk with this woman.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now this is no minor feat.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean so many books.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing, but then when you hear how many kids she has raised and continues to raise, you know she has authority to speak on the topic we will be focusing on today.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Her new book is Calming Angry Kids.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: When her publicist sent me her book, I read the title and knew this book was something that would help give hope to so many parents caught in the whirlwind.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we talk about a lot that's not in the book, and I think you'll come to respect Trisha as much as I have.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So sensory processing disorder, yeah.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I think the biggest thing is I go, okay, I expected to deal with these things if I fostered or adopted my dear dear friends who've done those.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I see them go through the struggles, but I feel like we're swapping the same stories.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wait a minute, they're from me.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've known him.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I loved him from moment of conception to now.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why am I dealing with these things?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, when I got those book, I was like, All right, please tell me a chair shot.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because obviously, um, you know, you've written a ton of different books, nonfiction fiction, all the different stuff, but you but you're writing something that you've actually you've you've lived and you're living now.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're still going through it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and part of me is like, why am I writing a book?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not fixed.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think we could ever see our kids as like fixed.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's always gonna be struggles.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have adult kids that still come over, like, I need advice, let's you know, so it's never like we're gonna come to a place where we arrive with kids.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, so yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, sorry.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: They don't turn 18.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my oldest is 29.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and there's still stuff that we with all my 29, 26, 24.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's I mean, there's all stuff they're over multiple times.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Two of them live close.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: One's in the Czech Republic, she's a missionary, and so they're still calling us up, and but but we have that relationship with them where they feel like they want to come to us, they want to get advice, they want to talk to talk through the hard stuff.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's good there.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So really, I think part of it, like I get comments, like you said, it's just not adopted kids, it's just not foster kids.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but God knew like they would have like we have two with sensory processing.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think more of them probably have it, but two like the been diagnosed with it and stuff like yeah, it's just so like this is something I never thought that we would be dealing with.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, finding all these things.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's such an increase of that diagnosis.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you have any conspiracy theories?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to like deal with them once did everyone just did and now we have a term for it or something, or we all know what we're doing.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you wonder, yeah, and you wonder I mean, growing up maybe just wasn't as well known.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I've never heard of this term until I started what's wrong with my kid.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, yeah, we're homeschooling, and then there's like if someone's clicking a pencil, one of my children will just go off the wall angry.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or another thing with the sensory processing kids like chewing on everything.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So all the shirts, all we have t-shirts that are just chewed up constantly.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: They do the pins and pencils are just chewed up, the lids too, water bottles are just chewed up.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like all over my house has all this chewed up stuff all the time.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just this this thing that I never with our three biological, we didn't have any of those issues, and all of a sudden I'm like, I don't even know how to deal with all these things, plus the anger, because yeah, every little thing just you know drives them crazy and just the anger.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think when it comes to it, like especially with the anger, just realizing that it's very real to them.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even though it seems like this should not be a big deal, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's very real to them, and then there are some times like it's okay to get angry because sometimes their siblings know this will irritate them.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So they purposely have agonized exactly.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, but even when we're angry, we don't have to act that way.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like teaching them calming skills when they're angry.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's times where whether it's they have a right to get angry or they don't have a right to get angry, you still don't react.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you still don't hit, you still don't yell, you still don't call in your anger.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, so one of the things I talk about in the book is like creating a calming bag for them and giving them tools on how not to get angry, well, how to once once they start feeling angry, how to calm themselves down.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes we can be there and we can help them calm down, but they also need to learn how like to calm themselves down.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're not always gonna be either gonna be either there quickly enough.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the calming bag is one of the things that one of the therapists taught me, and it's just like a big ziploc bag.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And ahead of time, you're like, these are things you can use to calm yourself down.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, like one of the things in there might be Play-Doh, and that they could squeeze it and they're focusing, so they're angry.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when they're angry, all they start thinking is all those negative thoughts go and they're just focused on that.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you're getting their attention off of the whatever the problem is, and letting their brain kind of settle down.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So squeezing Play-Doh, another really good thing is like a little thing of bubbles.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So where they could pull it out and they're blowing it, so you tell them, calm down, breathe, whatever.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: They can learn to go to their bag, and then they have their bubbles, so they're taking a deep breath, they're blowing it out, they're doing the motion of going through bubbles, scripture cards for older kids.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: They can go through.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, one of my daughters, um, we talked about the fruit of the spirit.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, okay, you may not feel you could have peace, joy, love, but Jesus in you, you know, because you've accepted Christ, she's 13 now, can be those things for you.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you just pray through those things.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you could have a note paper in there and pencil colored pencils for them to focus on things.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the therapists had my daughter um paint like a rainbow picture of wherever she wanted, like to go, like um you could think about like a place with unicorns or rainbows, like get your mind or happy place, yeah.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah to get your and so each for us, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: A quiet room with a fireplace and a book.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but so giving them the tools ahead of time, because in the moment, telling them to calm down, and they have no idea how to do that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so we teach our kids how to use the potty, how to eat with a fork, how to do all these things, but we don't teach them like how to calm down, how to respond, how to do different things, and so really it is going through and teaching them how to calm down and to do all these things.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, another thing when we tell our kids like calm down and they don't know how to do it, when we're telling them just what to do, or you need to stop doing that, or you can't watch TV tonight, or you need to like we're giving them consequences, but we're not acknowledging their anger.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's another thing that I learned is to acknowledge their anger because they're gonna keep acting out until we acknowledge it.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So just to say, like you So it validates their emotional.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, so for example, if I have a child that goes in and realizes that her sister did the chore wrong and she has to redo all the dishes or something like that.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Her sister's not home.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but she's angry, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll say, and she's all she was supposed to do the dishes, and now I have to do her all this stuff.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're can you relate to me?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've been totally like I just happened.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: If I just say it's okay, calm down, it's not okay because her sister, you know, so it's yeah, super frustrating.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So what I say is it's over because it's the dishes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna take a long time because they were wanting to do something else.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're something fun, yes, yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just saying, you are angry.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm angry at my sister, because you know, and I'm like, you're right.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: She was supposed to do those dishes.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I will talk to her about that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let me deal with your sister because they'll want to like let and they'll what what are you gonna do?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll have consequences for your sister, but you are angry right now.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm angry about that, and just say, I would be angry too if I had to do extra tricks, and just validating that and say, Well, it's not fair, you're like, you're right, I'm gonna talk to your sister about it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just helps like pull it down instead of if we're just saying it's okay, you know, it's okay, or don't worry about it, or you do that too.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, none of those things help them in that moment, in that moment.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when you validate, like, yes, you have a right to be angry, I would be angry about that too, and I will take care of it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then they know, like, okay, mom is gonna take care of it, and sometimes they'll want to know how I'm gonna take care of it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's between me and your sister, like so, because otherwise it builds the drama.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I understand, I hear you, I I I love you, but I'll defend you, I'll protect you, but then that's between me and that person, yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not you know, whereas we want to sometimes see justice meta, and we're like, okay, God, what are you gonna do then?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: But just it's so funny, just validating that.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And once I learned that, I actually um read a book about it, and it's in the book.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't remember the author's name right now.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: But um, when I was actually doing that, they're like, You got that out of a book.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yeah, but it's working.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's calming, like it took the drama from a 30-minute big blow-up because she's so upset, and I'm telling her to calm down to like you are angry, and just we could have the conversation.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: I see your emotion, or you're sad, because sometimes they may see they may be angry, like they're acting out angry, but I really realize they're sad because their friend can't play it, or they're hurt, or someone said something mean to them down the street, and they're like say, You're hurt, you're sad, you feel abandoned, like whatever emotion it is, even though it's displaying anger, you might say, Okay, this is what's really going on.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And once you acknowledge that, they're like, Oh, okay.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you're able to talk about the emotion and what's going on.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think you had said something interesting that I think it would be worth maybe expanding on a little bit.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I think recently, because of now understanding the maybe some of the more core issues of my kids, I have been going at it as far as discipline.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm learning that discipline obviously didn't work, um, which is and it only like created more.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why is that?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And because you use the term like teaching them how to instead of disciplining them.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think discipline is easy because it's almost like we can fix it now.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just going to like you don't get to watch TV and go to your room or whatever.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of a sudden, it's just like we're delivering out and then they're we're we've done where when we take time to have to work through it with them, it takes more time.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have to process like what's really going on, what's really going on with them.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean it does take time.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: It does take time, yes.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's so much easier.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I think with my first three kids, I was just like, they did something wrong.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I disciplined them, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we had a kind of re a good relationship, and then they were able to pull themselves out of it.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: With now, like it might be something, especially with our adopted kids, it might be something not to do with anything with what's happening in the moment.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it's maybe they had a dream about their biological family, maybe they had these other things.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'm just disciplining it, it's not getting to the heart of the issue of what is really hurting them.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: So then that hurt keeps coming out over and over and over.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when you take time to like figure out what's going on and pull in my friend Carla Williams, um, she talks about doing a time in instead of a time out.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so really it's like, come here, let's sit here with me and let's talk about this.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, instead of having them go figure it out alone, you sit with them because really they don't figure it out alone, they're just mad that they're in their room by themselves.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Until until you they have the relationship established with you or even them with with them with themselves, because sometimes I can use the the time out, like go talk to the Holy Spirit and figure out why.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes they they're not able to even explain.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a difference because sometimes I'll so the difference is like I'll say, Why don't you go to your room and just calm down for a while and use your calming bag?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that like they're still like going to their room, they're still the comming bag, like some specific things.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're working on stuff and then they're thinking about it, or like my 15-year-old doesn't have a calming bag, but I'll say, just go and chill out for a while.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so surprised when she comes back, then I'm like, Well, apologize, because she does have time to think, but I'm not saying you're in time out.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not it's not like a discipline thing, it's like you need your space, and I'll say, you know, when I'm upset, I like to go to my room and just like have quiet.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like a discipline thing where discipline is then all of a sudden you're like, go to your room, I don't want to deal with you.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, we're like, I don't want to deal with you and your emotions right now.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or but like a time in, like, especially some kids, they want like um one of my younger kids, I'll just say, Come sit in my lap, what's going on?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And at first she's like, Don't want to tell me, or she might tell me, Well, he pushed me when we were going out the door, but really it was yesterday, one of the neighbor kids teased her, like it eventually comes out.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: But if it takes that moment of like sitting there with her on my lap, like really letting her talk, and it might take five minutes of her talking about this other little stuff before I realize what's really going on.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: What's the yeah, the root of it?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're still acting out, like they still get consequences.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So say they yelled or so, but it comes after we figure out, you know, and sometimes they'll even say, What do you think your consequence should be?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: For that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll come back.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you spent time in relationship and they've been able to identify and they even know maybe better what they did wrong.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: They know what they did wrong, but we're able to see, like, okay, this is what was really I'll say, This is what was really making you mad.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, your brother didn't mean to trip you when you go out the door.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or or even if he did, what should you know?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's your response supposed to be?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: So he'll get a consequence for tripping you, but what's your consequence for yelling at him?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because you you know, so we just just talking through the stuff, and it does, it takes more time.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, we have stuff to do.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, it does, yeah, and you do so much.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what are the ages you talked about?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Your adult kiddos and the ages of the ones that are home.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we have three adult kiddos, and then we have an 18-year-old who's at college, okay, who's at home most weekends, she's home, and then the ones that are home full-time.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have two 15-year-olds or twins, girls, and then a 13-year-old girl, 11-year-old girl, an eight-year-old girl, and an eight-year-old boy.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So hormones.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm thinking.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: The two 15-year-olds and the 13-year-old, hormone city.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, for sure.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have an eight-year-old boy.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, he's an adventure for sure.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Eight-year-old is active, boy, totally wild child.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I love it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love having a boy, and it's so fun, but it's a whole nother adventure.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's with daddy in Arkansas right now, helping a friend cut down trees.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh what?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I heard you you live in the room.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Arkansas, yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just south of Little Rock.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And with and with boys, I think a lot of times people think just like girls have hormones, but boys have hormones when they're going through yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it starts young too.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And like my friend Martha, she's like, the best thing is just to get them active.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because when your their body's moving, it just gets all those testosterone going.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and so my little guy, when he starts getting emotional, I'll like give him a really big squeeze.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like anything physical that will like help him, it just helps his body.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, good.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're dealing with this.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas like a calming bag you felt like with the girls were.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think the girls, yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, you know, I don't know.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever I mean I've heard of some parents implementing like punching bags for their boys and that sort of, you know, things or the taekwondo.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Usually I don't know if I would do a punch.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so our we have our kids in Taekwondo.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really awesome.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like we they just love that a lot.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing benefit from that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot of I thought it'd be more like chopping boards, but it's more like physical, they do all the um like the cantata type.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So they do the other, they do the movements and stuff, but then they do a lot of like physical like push-ups and running laps, and discipline.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Doing the ladder thing, like because they're building up their stamina too, which is really good.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I have all my kids in Taekwondo, which is that's awesome.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: You juggle all of it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's we do one activity.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's our activity.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're all in there.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're all in Taekwondo.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Same time.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Same time.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're brilliant.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're all in the same glass.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're brilliant.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: So awesome.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: With well, because we have what six kids still at home.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way with all the activities and stuff.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-uh.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm going crazy with three, and we do not do that many activities.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just tough.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: But now we've added some OT and stuff, you know, so that's it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because we do, that's what we do.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: We have therapy.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we have uh six hours of therapy a week for kids, and yeah.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that's where homeschooling for you is that's almost essential in order to maintain all these other, you know, like helpful disciplines that you guys have.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to do that.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for homeschooling too, um, because the six I'm homeschooling now we're adopted, I just want that time with them.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't have we didn't adopt the girls till they were eleven through fifteen.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't have all those years.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, We need as much time as possible.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then just getting in God's word, like we you know, spend a lot of time reading, and we have prayer journals, and I read missionary stories like for at least an hour and an hour and a half a day.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, and they're like, they had a hard time when they first started home school, like, what does this have to do with our education?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, You need this, probably so different than what they were used to.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you need this more than anything, and um, and I do a lot of reading out loud to them, so that I'm like, they need to hear my voice reading these stories, you know.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so even the 15-year-olds, for a couple hours a day, I'm reading stories to all the kids, like history books and reading out loud to them because I want that bonding time.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that was another thing when we first adopted them.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had the we had the newborn baby, which was easy, like she was from a healthy pregnancy, so there's not a lot of trauma.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that was super.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we got away, she's six days old, so yeah, that's like perfect like scenario if you're you know her mom didn't do drugs, like ideal, yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then we got the two and a half year old, he was two and a half, and she was five, so they're a sibling group, and they are the ones that came with a lot of anger.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember going to therapy with them and just like, I don't even know how to handle these because it's like big rages and breaking stuff and knocking stuff over and dumping a whole gallon of milk.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like a lot of stuff.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we went to So emotional and physical, yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, you're just like, Oh my word.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is all this is all.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we went to therapy, and I'm like, okay, trauma therapy for a two and a half year old, like what are we gonna be doing?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he was getting closer to three at this time by the time we started therapy.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: But the interesting thing they had me do, and I talk about in the book, is an activity where she had me spend five minutes a day with him.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So he had a special, like we did a shoebox of his special toys.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: We had like zoom animals and cars and stuff.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so she had during that five minutes, she had me repeat what he was saying.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if he said, Blue car, I'm like, You have the blue car, blue car, and just repeating everything he said, just repeat it.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um praising him.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So he would say, Here, and I was like, You just shared with mommy, that is so awesome.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then noticing what he was doing, like you're lining up the cars, you're making a circle, you're making car sounds.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she would actually, it was the strangest thing, like it'd be those rooms that have the mirror, but you can't see like she could see us, but we can't and she'd have me like uh observe how I was doing, and then she would give me feedback.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Why is this such a big deal?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does this handle anger?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: But what it was is they he felt seen, he felt heard, he felt appreciated, and so later when I'm like, come and pick up your toys, instead of just getting mad and blowing up, he's we're building this relationship and this bond, and he would like, oh, I like this person now.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really amazing just the building the bonds and focusing on relationships.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so many times we get so busy doing everything for our kids, right?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really five minutes a day.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes it would last a little longer, but it was like this is our mommy and send time, and then with the older girls, it was like, Okay, let's do this, let's paint our nails.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like after dinner, let's paint our nails, let's paint our toenails.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is tell me about the book that you're reading on the independent reading time, or oh, there's movies coming out, you know, just talking about these different things with them, yeah, folk or funny YouTube videos.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Was cats are just like ridiculous.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'll just Google like funny puppy videos.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll just sit there, but it's just like they feel seen, they'll feel heard, they'll they feel appreciated, and then their behavior starts changing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And usually it takes like a couple of weeks, but it's sure amazing.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of a sudden, you're like, we just didn't have any anger issues today.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And all it was was spending that time with them.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um that is a victory.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: I am a big advocate.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I call it meaningful minutes, and even after at the end of the podcast, I give I try tie it into our content and I give three things connected spirit, mind, and body of how we can connect with ourselves, but then with those we love.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me, I'm always practicing it on my kids or taking what I did with my kids and sharing it at least what was good.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not everything works, but um, but it's true because I think, like you said, you only need that five to fifteen minutes of connection time to see some fruit for what uh in whatever way you're looking for, of whether it's I think for some moms it's for them to gain some independence.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: But for those of us who are working on like the emotional needs, those deep fault needs, it doesn't actually take much and it doesn't take like deep theological discussion.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't chat videos sometimes.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so good.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um to be seen, to be affirmed, and what was the other one?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um to be heard.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: To be heard.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So because you're repeating what they're saying.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Even when we're sitting there, we're like on our phones or we're like thinking about something else.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and like mommy.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, mommy, right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mommy, right, yes, and so it's like, oh, I am listening to you.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I promise.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so for those of my friends who don't know, you've written over 70 books.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is book 73, right?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: 73, yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Just released at the Clare last year, and you shared that, and you were speaking about um uh Saving the Storks.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Walk It Out was the one I was.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, walk it out.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you like talked and then Save the Storks got to talk.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: They were tying in the story because I was a teen mom.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had um Save the Storks on my podcast for Mother's Day.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a great, uh such a great conversation.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when you said that I was just like, Who is this woman?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because who can write that many books?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: But so how do you do it?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've raised three adult children, so you have you know, you have adult kids' needs, because we never stop learning to be mothers, yeah, you know.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you have six kids at home, homeschooling.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how what is how do you manage the time?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: How does it look for you to keep sane and continue to walk it all out in a in a life-giving way?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I for w attended my first writer's conference in 1994.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And my first book came out in ninety nine.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, like even people say 73 books.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it still is a l more than one book a year, obviously.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like been a process, you know what I mean?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like something you know it's not an overnight thing.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and before social media, like which is sometimes harder because there's other stuff to do.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like before you're just writing the book.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so now it is like extra job.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: But with I felt so guilty at first with my older kids, um, because I would have because I had they were like, I think seven, five, and three when I really started like working on book stuff.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I've it's been two hours in the afternoon.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So from like two to four, this is mommy's writing time.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're we home school, so we've got finished our homeschool, and I would have like Barney on TV.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: We'd have play-doh, like I'd set up the station, the Play-Doh station, the Lego station.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when they got older, they're able to go outside and like kind of saying, but when they're that age, like you kind of need to be there.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like they'd come over, like, I need this.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, it's mommy's writing time, there's your snacks I got you.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so just getting them, and pretty soon they got used to it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is mom's writing time, and it was two hours.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I did feel guilty, like, other parents are like at the park with their kids, or you know what I mean.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: But what I realized is when they got older, they had some really pretty amazing experiences.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I've interviewed World War II veterans that were like on the shores of Iwa Jima, and they were like, I'd go, come on, we're gonna go interview this World War II veteran that lives in town, and we've gone on research trips that they gotta go along with me, and so really they just had experiences like we had other writers that visit that like this is a famous writer that's sitting around our table that my kids get to interact with.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you know it's really neat to see that they really got to experience a lot of it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, there I also helped start a crisis pregnancy center, so they were there with me, and I was just like for that guilt was really the enemy, just like trying to put it down and really seeing what now that they're grown, how those things really benefited them.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, they saw like moms following God and dad, my husband's a children's pastor.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he's uh has his regular job, he volunteers in the children's ministry.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um, mom and dad are serving like other people and they're loving other people, and so all our kids, um, our sons so both serve in children's ministry.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Our son now is the children's pastor at our church.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Our other son is there helping.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: We still all together as a family help in children's church every week.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Our daughter's a missionary, so it's like I thought I was like hurting them because I'm dragging them along to all these things, but really it's showing like this is how we follow God, this is how we serve other people, this is how we tell them about Jesus, and now they're kind of living that out, but so I don't feel guilty anymore.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like well, you also show them that the world is bigger than them.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: The world is bigger.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think we we make this kid-centric society and we make the mistake of indulging and yeah, and there's a balance, yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, I mean it's obvious you've been very intentional with them and including it, but that's the cool thing, is like it was a whole family process all along.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just um this is my soapbox, I always get on that.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for thousands of years for centuries, families did life together, and that's how you passed on faith and story and the practicals of how you function in every day, and so that's how they operated.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: But then we've lost it really since like World War One and stuff, where it scattered the family.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And now that's a way to reclaim it, where you do these things together, it's not separate, it's not your own thing, and it may look different than farming life or you know, teaching them all like one trade, but you did it and included with them, whether you know, serving in your church and stuff.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so even while I've been here, I've talked to the kids on the phone and they're like, What are you doing?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I've spoken and I'm going to workshops.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're still because we're connected.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm part of their lives, they're part of my life.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of understand, they see when the books come in.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'll do an unboxing video when my books come in, the kids are there, like, yay! Look at my names in here, you know.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they're part of it too, and I think that really has just helped me, like, it's really benefited them.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just thinking of priorities, like so Taekwondo is the only thing that we do, like outside activity.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have dinner together almost every night, like around the dinner table.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: I read to my kids at bedtime, my little kids at bedtime, and my husband does a star track or something with the older kids.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we purposely build these systems that our family is involved in.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like this is how we do it.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like let's make time for the kids, but it's like we all eat dinner, we all we have stories at bedtime.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just the systems that we have.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, integrating what brings you guys joy too.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, instead of it.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I love that.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really good.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: How did you and we we talked about this a little bit beforehand, but um, how did the kids like seeing their names in there?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did they were they okay with the stories?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good question.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So how many kids I changed their names?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I wondered as I was reading through it, I'm like, So like you know, Bunny and Sissy are in the name of it.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, generic.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's what their names are.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's their nicknames.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just knew, like, even though they said, no, you could use my real name, I just knew like maybe later you don't want to.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I might care.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, but for the bigger kids, I had them read it.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the four older girls who are 18, 15, 15, and 13, I'm like, I printed it up.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is an editing stage, so we have time to change it.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's an arc.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to, yeah, if you want to change it, it was even before the arc, so it was like printed on the computer paper.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you have time to change it.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so interesting because, first of all, they often found themselves like sometimes I'm kind of vague in the story.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes there's not even names.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't put names back.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, you couldn't.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they'd be like, Is this you?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is this me?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So and sometimes they'd like see themselves, oh I know this is me.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the interesting thing was is they gotta see my point of view.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so they gotta see like I was in the room praying as you were doing this thing, and this is what the therapist told me.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't just ignoring you, right?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And this is just why, like, this is a trauma thing, and so they were so into it, we're like, This is how you felt, and some of them there's multiple times they were like crying, like, mommy, I'm so sorry you felt that way, and thank you for like not giving up on us, and we were so bad, like we hear that stuff.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was good for them to see the inside, and so it was interesting because that after one of the twins who's 15 after she was done, she's like, Mom, that was so good.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can you write more stories like that about us?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just helped them because it's like a recording of our lives.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a photo album and works.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's also like showing like this is what God spoke to me, and this is how I was praying, and this is what was going on.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, in fact, they keep asking me, like, Are you gonna write more stories like that?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, Well we'll maybe do a follow-up, I don't know what will happen.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it was really good for them to kind of see because in everyday life you don't take time to process stuff, you just kind of like move through it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this was me, the whole book was me processing everything that was going on and finding the things that really worked and finding the things that didn't work.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And my editor, like sometimes I would like have a little story, then have something else.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Okay, we need to cut this, but tell us more about what was really going on here.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so my editor was really good about pulling stuff out and yay for editing.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know it.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know they too, they really help us out.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as painful as it might be, it's always it's always good.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, for you, you've talked about what you're you do with your kids, kind of like your meaningful minutes and what that looks like.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: But how about your soul care?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like for you, how do you take care of you?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is probably fun a little bit, yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: My cute shoes on that I'm not gonna wear, but it's very cute.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so funny, it's just like this is okay, I'm gonna dress up and be with real people.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my kids are real people too, but you know what I mean.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, I'm doing that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I um so my quiet time in the morning is like my thing.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so you call it quiet time.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is it really quiet or yeah?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, I try to wake up before anybody.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, that's like five in the morning.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: So even so I'm a napper.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll do like a 20-minute, 30-minute nap in the afternoon, but I'm in my quiet time.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, now I usually don't even set my alarm.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like my body's like, I need that.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wake up so excited, like I make a cup of tea and I have my Bible.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: But one cool thing is that I really, really missed was Bible study with other women.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I used to love going.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: We I was in BSF, Bible study fellowship for many years.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And just so good.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, shout out to BSF.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one of my friends just told me like three weeks ago, um, they have BSF online and they have online groups.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and searched, yeah, and so you can join anytime.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think you have to like so whenever this air is people could join.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and just found a group um for trequ frequent travelers.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: So because I'm like, you know what I mean?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because people know that, like, okay, I'm going to speak at this conference, I won't be at our meeting, but we meet, had the the time slot was on 7 a.m.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: on a Wednesday morning.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: So my kids usually don't wake up till about seven anyway.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: We get home started homeschool at like nine.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew like for that hour, they're up getting their own cereal and doing stuff anyway.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I could be on the computer.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there's like 10 of us on the computer, and they're from like our main leaders from Alabama, and so the teaching is from Alabama.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's people from North Dakota, Georgia, North Carolina, like they're from all over.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then my daughter, who's a missionary in the Czech Republic, she's pregnant, and she's um she's a teacher, but she's taken the semester up because she's getting ready to have a baby.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Leslie, you should join us.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so she joined our group.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I get to do Bible study with these ladies that I'm just getting to know from all over, and then with my daughter.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like I'm so excited about that.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna get to be there when she has the baby or is she coming home?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're going we're going there after she has the baby.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so she's due the January 6th, and then the twins turn 16 on the 19th.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: We can't miss their birthday, and we don't know like when so as soon as it'll probably be like the 20th that we're getting off.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like celebrate two 16-year-olds and then get in on a plane to go.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm so excited.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and her and I talk like every day, so on FaceTime and a long time, like hours, you know.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's beautiful.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, yeah, and you talked about w you having older kids, and I really like you don't just because they're out of the home or across the world, yeah.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to stop having a mom.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that demand and that real need to minister and parade to them is is there too.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you're doing amazing jobs.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Some days I'm like, I just I feel like there's more kids and needs than I have time for.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And really it's like figuring out and and there's the quiet ones, so you gotta I mean, so there's the ones that are gonna demand attention, and then there's the quiet ones, you're like, okay, I need to make time tomorrow to like just spend some time with this child.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so because it'd be easy to overlook because they're not crying out for the attention.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: So even stuff like, hey, you wanna come home and make dinner?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could cut these carrots that are gonna go in our soup, and they'll like think it's the coolest thing because it's just me and that child, and so it's just trying to find time to have that time with them.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're amazing.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you came back this year and that I got to come back.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's like this is really and I love it, and it is nice.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I do, I mean, this is another thing, just like okay, I can talk with my people face to face and and do that.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and it's only a couple times a year.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Most of my speaking, I bring the family along and they could experience it too.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, no, that's what my kids are hoping for, and my husband, he's like, could we you know because I speak locally and he's like, Could we try to speak though?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Florida, maybe.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's so funny because um I'm doing some Teach Them Diligently conferences.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so they have I don't I'm thinking eight or ten locations.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, okay, where do we want to go?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're I'm doing um Rogers, Arkansas, Nashville, Tennessee, because we stay at the Grando Opera Hotel, which my kids did it last year and they loved it.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: I bet.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then we're doing uh Mobile, Alabama.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh fun.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we'll probably say a couple days down there in the Gulf.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're doing Waco, Texas, too.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome! So it is kind of fun as a speaker when you like, okay, where do we want to go?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just finished both, well, almost finished um Chip Gaines' book, and I had read Magnolia story.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I read the Magnolia story.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: That was so yeah, and Chip was talking about Waco and just you know, had it had such a bad reputation because of everything that happened in the 90s, and then they've gotten to reclaim that, and I'm like, oh, that's so true.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's like a really at first you hear like, ooh, Waco.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: But then I was like, ooh, Waco.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was definitely after, I mean, I admired them already, but after listening to their story, and it was so Christ-centered, I'm like, I gotta go to Wake up.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Kat Lee's there.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I get to see her when I go to Wake Up.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's so fun.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's on my bucket list for sure.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: So then my kids were like, Who's that friend?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, She's really cool, you're gonna like her.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they really they like, I mean, all my friends that are writers and speakers, they're like, That's she's so nice.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, Kat, I talked to her a little bit last year, and then um again I came to her.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Okay, that talk was so good.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now help me.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she was really awesome.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she is.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is great.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what what books do you have in the crock pot now?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have like I mean, you just birthed one?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so one just came out this week.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm writing a book, and I'll just say I'm not giving the title away because I'm trying to keep it so put on gratitude with a family.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh we need that one.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's kind of like okay, now that they're calmer, let's be a little bit thankful.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that'll come out around next Thanksgiving.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: So like getting editing stuff.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will have to have you back for my holiday episode then.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do a strong holiday theme because I love that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've been planning it all year because you know, we gotta do the holidays well.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then I'm I mean, we have the TV show that's gonna be.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know a little bit more about can you share?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um like TV.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are so sad.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, my Amish series is um the Big Sky Amish series is getting turned into a TV show.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And like we're so told not to say anything until it happens.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it was okay it's legit.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Our eyes failed.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then I think the next thing I'm working on um is I'm gonna be doing a subscription for moms who want to be writers and just like walking them through like I can't think of a better person.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, walking the like how to balance being a mom and writing and giving them specific because I think so many times like just seeing the ladies here at Declare, it's just like they have such a passion, and just seeing like once the message gets out, it just impacts so many people.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to help women be able to get that message out.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I'm sure my webs my website that people will have more information in the next couple months about that.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just empowering other women to just share the stories that God has given them.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you for sharing your story.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't she amazing?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: I so appreciated getting this opportunity to record some of her shared wisdom.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you resonated with this conversation or know someone who might, would you share this with others?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: I hope others will know that they are not alone in their journey and they too can find some hope in their incredible job as a parent.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, you can get calming angry kids on Amazon or any of her 70 Plus books and learn more about Trisha at Trishagoyer.com.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: As usual, today's meaningful minute is going to connect our content, and even though our theme is usually very upbeat, I want to keep these inspirations authentic and real.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's human to feel anger, right?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes the process of how we deal with anger can get us into trouble.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it can also bring us closer to the Lord and to each other.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, three things that I want you to do today.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Would you take a minute and identify a recent hurt or anger you have experienced?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe after you do this with yourself, ask one of your kids.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Then a question to maybe ask and follow up the first one is can you recall the root cause of some of your angry reaction to the situation?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or was there something else that was going on at the same time?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, were you tired, hungry, were you not feeling well, or stressed?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: These triggers can help us identify the next time we're in that situation and be aware when we're feeling something else that might cause us to be more angry than we normally would be.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the third thing is: did you take time to apologize after the situation?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing that I hear again and again.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And apparently I just heard the other day there's a podcast built around this whole idea.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: The key to having great relationships is your ability and your willingness and humility to apologize.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: We all make mistakes and we all have those moments when we sin in our anger.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: But are we willing to take the time to repent and to seek forgiveness with those that we have hurt in the process?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Apologize to yourself, forgive yourself, and then go to others and apologize to them.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'll find so much healing and that you might grow closer to the Lord and each other in this process.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to know if you tried any of these and what you thought.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can tag us on Instagram or Facebook or jot us a note.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: We always love hearing from you.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're gonna answer one of your Anneagram coaching questions, which, if you didn't know, you can still submit your questions through our link in the show notes.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out to Simply Wholehearted or me, Amy Wicks, on the socials.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: This week's question is continuing my answer from last week's question.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I can barely determine my Anneagram number, and then I hear this talk about wings.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean and why does it matter?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure and listen to my other two rules from last week's episode.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: It'll make a little bit more sense.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: But for now, here's rule three and four.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Rule number three.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can have two wings.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: In theory, wings are most likely developed by nurture compared to your core number, which is largely nature.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, depending on your environment, your parents' core number, and your age, you'll operate uniquely with your wings.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Also, as you develop your gifts and talents, which you use on an ongoing basis, a wing or both of your wings may grow stronger.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: I find this to be the case for my wings.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a three-wing two, but I think the two-wing was nurtured because I grew up in a Christian home.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was the oldest child, and still am.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: And as a pastor's kid, well, there was no choice but to help all the people and constantly think of ways to help lighten the load for my parents.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: As I learn more about the possibility of having a four-wing, I see how it was naturally present for most of my life.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it was almost required to stay clipped, using air quotes here, due to environment and various, well, hangups in my life.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: As I'm moving towards freedom and growth, I see how God created me, and I'm learning to exercise my four-wing in new ways.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: This doesn't come from a place of striving to use it, but rather understanding some of why I frame my circumstances and experiences and desire to use my natural gifting more.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is also why I have many Aneagram forefriends.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm attracted to what has been dormant in me and something I long to get more freedom in.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: How's that for some food for that?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And now for rule number four.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can have wings currently not being exercised.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, since the word wing is largely identified with the ability to give flight, I'm gonna stick with my analogies.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you can be the type where because of your environment or purely your need to survive, you rarely allowed yourself to take flight, and you are clearly a number without much notable influence of your wing type.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: But like all things that are meant to stay in motion, once freedom and growth happens through understanding the Enneagram, you can begin to test out and discover more about wings and see what might be there when you look to your childhood and what you desire to develop.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Wings help balance you out and give us the freedom to grow into a fuller picture of how God designed us to be.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that helps answer your question and solve some mystery about the wings in the Aneagram.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And next week I'll be back with more information, so keep those great questions coming.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can find us on Instagram and Facebook where you can share conversations, meaningful minutes, and helpful resources to all your friends and family.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: We love it when you share.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So until next week, join us on the socials as we continue on our journey to living simply, wholehearted.